Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #128
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Tuesday, June 10 1997        Volume 02 : Number 128

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Robert Sevin's House

> Now that the invisible permission field has been discharged, I am
> attaching Robert Sevin's house back on the earth.  When we are done,
> I'm gonna kick my feet up and stay awhile.

I, on the other hand, return to my home - where I have a nice view of
two-star walking around and drawing things in the dirt....

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:39:49 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Misc Proposal Business (Was P2036 accepted)

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> 
> P2043 contains an invalid bribe (reasoning: the bribe cannot be valid,
> because it proposes to give out otzma cards that don't exist.  The bribe
> appears to be a weak paradox attempt -- it proposes to give out something
> valid if the bribe is invalid or of indeterminate validity -- but clearly
> the bribe does not take effect if it is invalid, and the proposal bribery
> rule clearly states that the conditions in bribes must be determinable
> when the voting results are released, and any bribe that violates this
> rule is invalid).  A proposal with an invalid bribe is rejected, its
> author loses 15 points, and no other scoring or such effects are
> triggered. [all by the proposal bribery rule]
> 
> /dev/joe

Actually, a proposal with an invalid bribe is only rejected if it 
receives a number of yes votes less than 1 plus the total of yes and no 
votes *cast* on the proposal. Votes received from other voting actions 
(tammany, bonus votes, party unity votes,) are not described in the 
rules as being cast. I actually attempted to bribe tammany 5A$, but the 
bot help file was nowhere to be found so I didn't do it right. I thought 
it would be harfy if a proposal with an invalid bribe were passed 
anyway, but apparently a few players saw through this or else just 
wanted to be contrary. Anyway, that was my reason for not retracting it
And the phrase "weak paradox attempt" seems to imply that I was going 
for a paradox win cfj, when in fact I just wanted to have a bit of fun.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:49:57 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Buying land

I would like to buy the kaa of land at E1, which appears empty on the 
map. How would I go about this?

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 01:59:20 -0400
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation 

> Why do you think there isn't a solution? We already have Voting and
> Nonvoting players -- we're halfway there... It seems easy to make a class of
> players that deals only with the rules, a class that only deals with the
> effects of rules (subgames, etc), and another class (the standard class)
> that does both.

  Because some of us want to keep changing the game, which kind of prevents
anyone forming any long-term strategies not involving the metagame.  The
basic problem is that the game some people want to play keeps ceasing to
exist.  :-)

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:01:19 -0400
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation 

> Entonomic? Never heard of it. But Townships have been discussed in many
> forms. My form, briefly, is that the players would group into Townships
[snip clear explanation]

  My main objection is this:  in what way is this different from creating
entirely seperate Nomics?

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:04:05 -0400
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation 

> I envision a list that is completely unofficial, and not considered public,
> where we can chat on a more personal level, if desired. Acka-discuss seemed
> to have the feeling of a more official mailing list. Maybe I'm alone in this

  I agree, Acka-discuss wasn't a fair trial of the system.

> desire to add a mailing list (I also still want a CFJ mailing list). At the
> very least "official messages" could be preceded with Acka-Official: in the
> subject, rather than just Acka: perhaps. I don't know, I just don't like

  Acka-Official is too long.  Am I the only one who has trouble with
subjects running off to the ri|5/12/57|R|S|
  ?

> this high message volume on the main list. It would be nice to make the main
> list the only list required to be subscribed to, and then to keep the mail
> volume to the minimum possible, so we don't scare away new players by the
> sheer quantity of e-mail.

  I joined because of that quantity. :-)  But I agree it would be a good
idea to provide some separation.

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:14:59 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Gadgets 

I am making two homecrafted Gadgets.  The first is a homecrafted Orbital
Mind Control Laser.  The second is a homecrafted Really Big Blue Thing that
doesn't do too much, really.

I am cashing in six Processing Chips.

#award snowgod : -6 PC : 2 Homecrafted Gadgets

Mr. Lunatic Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:17:14 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Robert Sevin's House 

>
>You are welcome to do so. I could use some guests. Are you following the
>discussion of your Expert status in the Senate mailing list?
>

Thank yoiu, and you are welcome at my p[lace anytime.  Just invite
yourself.  Anyway, yes, I am following, though I have not yet decided
whether or not to comment.

Mr. Lunatic Take My Status Away Why Don't You Fringe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 02:15:57 -0400
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:Acka: Gadgets 

> I am making two homecrafted Gadgets.  The first is a homecrafted Orbital
> Mind Control Laser.  The second is a homecrafted Really Big Blue Thing that
> doesn't do too much, really.

  Does the blue thing blueprint still exist, then?

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:21:11 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ambassadorness 

Ackazens,

Internomic P335 has passed.  Here are the current scores, and the text of
the passed proposal.

Scores for the current game:

Thring		4
Agora		2
Ackanomic	10
Pumpkin Patch	0
MicroNomic II   2
Rishonomic      2
Internomic 	0

>Proposal 335: International Relations
>
>This proposal creates a new rule which reads as follows:
>
>All member nomics are initially Neutral to one another. Any member nomic
>may declare any other member nomic to be an Ally, Neutral or Enemy at any
>time by having their liaison publicly announce the change on the
>Internomic mailing list. This shall be known as the Attitude of the first
>nomic to the second. These three Attitudes are mutually exclusive and not
>necessarily reciprocal.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:23:25 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:Acka: Gadgets (financier, please read) 

>> I am making two homecrafted Gadgets.  The first is a homecrafted Orbital
>> Mind Control Laser.  The second is a homecrafted Really Big Blue Thing that
>> doesn't do too much, really.
>
>  Does the blue thing blueprint still exist, then?

No, it doen't.  Ooops.

Only take away three PC's please, Mr. Financier.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:26:02 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Some announcements

Alfvaen wrote:

> > My impeachment paper against Malenkai is awaiting your votes.
>  
> Who do these votes go to?  The Tabulator(who, I believe is Malenkai)?
> 
The Tabulator is Mohammed.  Votes on IPs go to Cout Tabula, who is
Malenkai.

> > Awhile back, there was a request that the Senate take action to
> revoke Mr.
> > Lunatic Fringe's status as Expert in Headware.  As mandated by the
> rules
> > on organizations, the senators voted to see if the Senate would take
> the
> > requisite action of publicly announcing our intention of voting on
> whether
> > or not to revoke this status (yeah, we thought it was goofy too).
> We have
> > voted in fvor of such an announcement, 4-0.  Thus, the Senate now
> > announces that it is begining a vote on the revokation of Mr.
> Lunatic
> > Fringe's Expertise in Headware.
> 
> Wait!  Isn't there supposed to be a plebiscite on whether to let the
> Senate
> vote on whether or not to make the public action of announcing their
> intention of voting on whether or not to revoke this status?
> 
Not exactly.  The purpose of announcing that the Senate is voting on
the Expert revokation question is to give the citizenry a chance to
comment on the matter.  The Senate's decision is the only binding
opinion, however.

> > This last bit is more of an observation than anything else.  I
> believe
> > when the blueprint for Azpiazu was created, Alfvaen stated that he
> was
> > paying some sort of cost in Processing Chips.  This is not
> necessary.  The
> 
[Precedence argument deleted.]

> On the other hand, I don't believe that R597(I think; the
> "Frankenstein
> Monster" rule)says that its Blueprints _don't_ require Processing
> Chips.
> 
I have to come down on Alfvaen's side on this.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:45:23 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ambassadorness

> >All member nomics are initially Neutral to one another. Any member
> nomic
> >may declare any other member nomic to be an Ally, Neutral or Enemy at
> any
> >time by having their liaison publicly announce the change on the
> >Internomic mailing list. This shall be known as the Attitude of the
> first
> >nomic to the second. These three Attitudes are mutually exclusive and
> not
> >necessarily reciprocal.
> 
I suggest that we declare ourselves allied with Internomic.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:17:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gadgets (financier, please read)

> >> I am making two homecrafted Gadgets.  The first is a homecrafted Orbital
> >> Mind Control Laser.  The second is a homecrafted Really Big Blue Thing that
> >> doesn't do too much, really.
> >
> >  Does the blue thing blueprint still exist, then?
> 
> No, it doen't.  Ooops.
> 
> Only take away three PC's please, Mr. Financier.

That proposal failed due to an invalid bribe.  Fortunately.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:27:13 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gadgets

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> I am making two homecrafted Gadgets.  The first is a homecrafted Orbital
> Mind Control Laser.  The second is a homecrafted Really Big Blue Thing that
> doesn't do too much, really.
> 
> I am cashing in six Processing Chips.
> 
> #award snowgod : -6 PC : 2 Homecrafted Gadgets
> 
> Mr. Lunatic Fringe

Um, the homecrafted gadget thing didn't pass, due to an invalid bribe. 
Does anyone think I should propose it without the bribe? And if I did, 
would it be eligible for foolishness? The JMCL is the one that looks 
most broken with homecraftedness, since you could use it to steal 
anything without the victim getting the JMCL in return. It might be 
better to make homecrafted gadgets ephermal, like the spellbook of chorg 
gadgets. Or perhaps blueprints that are broken with homecraftedness 
should be flagged with "The <gadget name> is not a toy." or some 
such. Anyone have any comments about this? Do we really want homecrafted 
gadgets, or did we only only want inky bloater decoys?

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:34:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Buying land

> I would like to buy the kaa of land at E1, which appears empty on the 
> map. How would I go about this?

Actually, E1 is Sunflare's house, I just haven't gotten around to adding
it to the map.  I haven't heard anything from Sunflare in a while, though;
you might ask the speaker about removing him from the game.  I should
update the map picture too. :-o

In general, you buy land by paying the price of land to the treasury
for each kaa you wish to buy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:41:55 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Gadgets

two-star wrote:

> Um, the homecrafted gadget thing didn't pass, due to an invalid bribe.
> 
> Does anyone think I should propose it without the bribe? And if I did,
> 
> would it be eligible for foolishness? The JMCL is the one that looks 
> most broken with homecraftedness, since you could use it to steal 
> anything without the victim getting the JMCL in return. It might be 
> better to make homecrafted gadgets ephermal, like the spellbook of
> chorg 
> gadgets. Or perhaps blueprints that are broken with homecraftedness 
> should be flagged with "The <gadget name> is not a toy." or some 
> such. Anyone have any comments about this? Do we really want
> homecrafted 
> gadgets, or did we only only want inky bloater decoys?
> 
_We_ voted _against_ the proposal.  Homecrafted gadgets have such
enormous scam potential that I am shocked to see how many people
voted for it.  Maybe it was the supposed bribe.  I am all for an
interesting game, but it takes the fun out scamming if you set it
up intentionally and corporately.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:45:14 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another Auction

> I bid A$20 on the Travesty.

Since there have been no valid bids on the Travesty in the last three
hours, and it's been over three days since I started the Auction, I am
declaring it closed.  breadbox has acquired the Travesty for the bargain
price of A$20.

#transfer breadbox, Alfvaen: A$20 : auction bid
#transfer Alfvaen, breadbox: Travesty : auction

A pleasure doing business with you.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Spice Girls:Say You'll Be There
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
As long as I have you, I can endure all the troubles you inevitably bring.
    [Ashleigh Brilliant]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:09:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gadgets

>Um, the homecrafted gadget thing didn't pass, due to an invalid bribe. 
>Does anyone think I should propose it without the bribe? And if I did, 

  YES.

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:25:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation

I'm still 180 messages behind, but I'll reply to this small aspect of the
"observation" now.  I've felt that the wins by points, while generally
boring (unless one can bet the points by a scam) served the puropse of
"starting over" reasonably often.  Imagine a new player joining when the
magic number was 541, and someone already has 300 points.  On one hand,
the new player has about no chance, but it will still be a while before a
new cycle starts.  If, on the other hand, the magic number was 257 and a
new player joined while someone had 200, the new player is unlikely to
win, but it won't be long until a new cycle start.  For this reason I
opposed the increase in the magic number, and supported its reduction.

As far as the victory eggplant penalty is concerned, a player with 6 wins
already seems most likey (as though I have any idea, right?) to consider
winning by points (except by a scam, in which case the penalty is
irrelevant) to be boring, and to be trying for other types of wins, anyway
(and perhaps properly so).  I don't see a reduction in the eggplant
penalty as necessary (but it's not really a problem for me, is it?), but I
strongly oppose saddling players with negative scores with Chatruese
Geese - to me that seems punative.

- -mr cwm
 apologizing in advance if this has alrady been said somewhere in the 180
 messages I haven't read yet

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Malenkai wrote:

>For the historically interested (my perspective anyway):
>
>The old magic number was 257, even for the first cycle.  Over time,
>the scoring system evolved so that the penalties for a failed proposal
>were lowered, and a host of other scoring opportunities were added,
>such as Whamiols, Phoebe posts, Internomic incentive, and we got better,
>*as a group* at writing proposals; you name it, one by one more rules
>were added that made point scoring easier, causing point inflation, but
>the magic number never changed.
>
>In conjunction with this, there was a growing 'movement' that point wins
>were sort of boring, and that the only point of having point wins was
>to allow a vehicle for scam wins, such as breadbox's third Silver Moon
>proposal.
>
>I proposed changing the magic number from 257 to 541, in part because the
>Whamiols and Eggplants were out of balance, but mostly for the above 
>reasons.  At the time it was voted in with 2 NO votes, I believe, so
>I figured that was the general consensus.
>
>Thus, at 199, I was suprised to find it 22% *lower* than the old 257,
>and the 541 idea completely tossed out the window.  Its a simple case
>of new players, new ideas, and a nomic changing its mind, I guess.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:49:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ambassadorness 

>I suggest that we declare ourselves allied with Internomic.
>
>ThinMan

I think we should ally with internomic and make ourselves hostile towards
Ackanomic.

Also, I think it would be best if we set up a formal procedure for changing
our status.

Mr. Lunatic Finger

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:54:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Gifts

I am converting these trinkets I own into A$:

    Staff of the Silicon Python (worth A$97)
    Bracelet of Conjuring (worth A$7)
    Interpol Crime-Pounding Nightstick (worth A$20)
    an A for effort (worth A$10)
    Sacred Chao (worth A$100)
    The Bagel of Uestiox (worth A$10)
    Original Rules Manuscript (worth A$500)
    Falafel Fallen Off (worth A$11)
    The White Tent The Raft (worth A$50)

For a total of A$805.
The art and antiquities communities are upset at me, but they were
probably pretty upset already since I flooded the Museum with
Prosthetic Foreheads.

#award /dev/joe: -1 Staff of the Silicon Python: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 Bracelet of Conjuring: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 Interpol Crime-Pounding Nightstick: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 an A for effort: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 Sacred Chao: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 The Bagel of Uestiox: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 Original Rules Manuscript: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 Falafel Fallen Off: conversion
#award /dev/joe: -1 The White Tent The Raft: conversion
#award /dev/joe: +805 A$: conversion

I am giving these trinkets to ThinMan:

    Jade Key of Yara
    Large Wooden Block
    Pedestal of *ping*

#transfer /dev/joe, ThinMan: Jade Key of Yara, Large Wooden Block, \
Pedestal of *ping*: gift

I am giving these other entities to ThinMan (which must be ack'd):

    Electronic Potato
    Whamiol
    Plunky Monkey Wrench
    Bonus Vote Add-On

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:12:01 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Gifts

/dev/joe wrote:

[Some trinket gifts, and:]

> I am giving these other entities to ThinMan (which must be ack'd):
> 
>     Electronic Potato
>     Whamiol
>     Plunky Monkey Wrench
>     Bonus Vote Add-On
> 
Gee, thanks /dev/joe!  Your generosity is astounding.  I acknowledge
these transfers.

#transfer /dev/joe, ThinMan: Electronic Potato, Whamiol, Plunky Monkey\
 Wrench, Bonus Vote Add-On: Gift

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:18:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ambassadorness

>I think we should ally with internomic and make ourselves hostile towards
>Ackanomic.
>
>Also, I think it would be best if we set up a formal procedure for changing
>our status.

  Either put it to the senate, or just make a proposal each time - there's
really nothing wrong with the mechanism.

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jun 1997 12:51:36 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: trade 

I hereby offer to buy snowgod's Bonus Vote Add-On for A$1.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: 10 Jun 1997 12:52:56 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: trade 

Oops...

That last message should have been....

I hereby offer to buy Mr. Lunatic Fringe's Bonus Vote Add-on for A$1.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:53:37 +0000
From: "Bascule" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Robert Sevin's House

> You are welcome to do so. I could use some guests. Are you
> following the discussion of your Expert status in the Senate
> mailing list?
> 
> Robert Sevin

What is the status of the senate mailing list? Are observers welcome?

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:40:18 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gifts

> I am converting these trinkets I own into A$:
> 
>     Staff of the Silicon Python (worth A$97)
>     Bracelet of Conjuring (worth A$7)
>     Interpol Crime-Pounding Nightstick (worth A$20)
>     an A for effort (worth A$10)
>     Sacred Chao (worth A$100)
>     The Bagel of Uestiox (worth A$10)
>     Original Rules Manuscript (worth A$500)
>     Falafel Fallen Off (worth A$11)
>     The White Tent The Raft (worth A$50)
> 
> For a total of A$805.
> The art and antiquities communities are upset at me, but they were
> probably pretty upset already since I flooded the Museum with
> Prosthetic Foreheads.

It's not just the arts and antiquities communities that are upset--_I'm_
upset!  :-)  I think I've changed my mind about keeping track of trinkets
that have been destroyed...

I mean, not that I don't know why you've done it...  ;-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Spice Girls:Say You'll Be There
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
$665.99 -- Retail price of the Beast

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Gifts

>It's not just the arts and antiquities communities that are upset--_I'm_
>upset!  :-)  I think I've changed my mind about keeping track of trinkets
>that have been destroyed...
>
>I mean, not that I don't know why you've done it...  ;-)

  If you do this, my second treasure shall become unfindable.

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:22:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Retraction

I am retracting P2054.  I have come to agree that the Victory Eggplant
section is ill-considered, although I still believe somewhat in increasing
difficulty in winning multiple cycles.  I will resubmit the first two parts
of the proposal, though, since somebody should close Malenkai's loopholes
before they can be surfed again...:-)  And I have a few ideas on how to
amend Victory Eggplants(at the very least, I'd like them to have a rule all
of their own), but I should probably separate them out.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Icehouse:Regular Boys
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
Everybody wants a rock to wind a piece of string around.  [Do I gotta say?]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:06:38 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Map

Let's have a round of applause for /dev/joe!  The updated Map looks lovely.
And crowded--there are more kaas of land on Ackanomic, aren't there?
That's just a small section of the world, right?

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--The Pogues:Metropolis
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
Imagine a goat.  It's like that, only different...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:14:04 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Retraction

Alfvaen wrote:

> I am retracting P2054.  I have come to agree that the Victory Eggplant
> section is ill-considered, although I still believe somewhat in
> increasing
> difficulty in winning multiple cycles.  I will resubmit the first two
> parts
> of the proposal, though, since somebody should close Malenkai's
> loopholes
> before they can be surfed again...:-)  And I have a few ideas on how
> to
> amend Victory Eggplants(at the very least, I'd like them to have a
> rule all
> of their own), but I should probably separate them out.
> 
I would favor some combination of the following two modifications
to eggplant weights:

1) Apply penalties only for point wins.
2) Make the penalty some fixed fraction of the magic number at the
   beginning of the cycle.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:17:41 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: House call (Sunflare)

I am requesting permission to visit Sunflare's House.

Hello?

Anybody home?

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:26:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Retraction

> I would favor some combination of the following two modifications
> to eggplant weights:
> 
> 1) Apply penalties only for point wins.

Do you mean that Eggplant Weight should only be some multiple of the number
of point wins, or that it should only hinder point wins?

> 2) Make the penalty some fixed fraction of the magic number at the
>    beginning of the cycle.

That was definitely on my agenda.  The precise fraction I hadn't yet
decided on, but 15 is about 1/33 of 529, so that might be the place to
start.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--The Spice Girls:Wannabe
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
Pardon my circumlocutions, I seem to be soliloquizing.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:33:06 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Retraction

Alfvaen wrote:

[I wrote:]
> > 1) Apply penalties only for point wins.
> 
> Do you mean that Eggplant Weight should only be some multiple of the
> number
> of point wins, or that it should only hinder point wins?
> 
I meant the former.  I thought the latter had already gained general
acceptance.

ThinMan  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:34:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Feathers

I am creating a trinket called "a strong shovel", value A$7.  This is a
very strong shovel, made out of an adamantium-vibranium-steel alloy,
hardened in the fires of the heart of the sun, and with an edge sharp
enough to cut the dawn.  It it perfectly balanced, so that lifting the
heaviest of loads is only a minimal effort.

Beginning at the southwest corner of Cow Town Hotel(though, as my Evil Twin
noted, not entering it), I proceed north 1972 paces.  On the ground I
inscribe "PLEASE GIVE UP".  Then, using "a strong shovel", I dig.

And if that don't do it, I don't know what will.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Icehouse:Regular Boys
Current Book--Sean Stewart:Cloud's End
"CAUTION: Knife is very sharp. Keep out of children"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:12:19 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Feathers

Aaron Humphrey wrote:
> 
> I am creating a trinket called "a strong shovel", value A$7.  This is a
> very strong shovel, made out of an adamantium-vibranium-steel alloy,
> hardened in the fires of the heart of the sun, and with an edge sharp
> enough to cut the dawn.  It it perfectly balanced, so that lifting the
> heaviest of loads is only a minimal effort.
> 
> Beginning at the southwest corner of Cow Town Hotel(though, as my Evil Twin
> noted, not entering it), I proceed north 1972 paces.  On the ground I
> inscribe "PLEASE GIVE UP".  Then, using "a strong shovel", I dig.
> 
> And if that don't do it, I don't know what will.

I think the problem is that the kaas are contiguous, so if you are not 
actually entering cow town property, then you are entering sunflare's 
property, which you have no permission to do. (For that matter neither 
do I.) I think one of us is going to have to actually go into cow town. 
Since I'm not about to commit a crime just to get in gaol, (and it's 
quite likely the sentencing process would not put me there,) I'm a bit 
worried that the gaoler will catch on and beat us to it. Maybe we need 
to impeach him. Or kindly ask him to step down. (sorry Mr. Lunatic 
Fringe...)

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:39:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Trinket Dispersal

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Aaron Humphrey wrote:
> If e consents, I will give the A$50 trinket to Mohammed, since as Financier
> he will undoubtedly wish to examine the forgery attempt more closely.
	I'll gladly accept this.  How unusual.

#transfer alfvaen, mohammed : A$50 : that's a trinket, not 50 A$

- -- 
Mohammed
Parrots from Yale chased bossy Russians from Honduras with a fire hose.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:41:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Lunatic Fringe

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Ross Morgan-Linial wrote:
> #trinket Antimatter:A$10:the trinket formerly known as the player formerly known as \
> snowgod
> (did I get that right?)
	Very close.

#trinket Antimatter:the trinket formerly known as the player formerly \
known as snowgod: 10

- -- 
Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:43:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Lunatic Fringe

On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Phil Ackley wrote:
> Mr. Lunatic Never Changing My Name Again Fringe
	I'll believe it when I have a contract to that effect in my
hands.  :o)

- -- 
Mohammed
A trio of macaws suddenly blew up in Indiana.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:47:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New PLayer (Mentor: Malenkai)

> We have a new player in Ackanomic.  His real name is is Jordan James (or
> possibly micheal, i'm a little unclear on this) and his email address is
> [email-masked]. He has selected Karma as his Ackanomic name.
	This poor fellow is finally in the bot.  I hope he hasn't left
the game yet.

- -- 
Mohammed
200+ messages behind

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:57:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation 

>> Entonomic? Never heard of it. But Townships have been discussed in many
>> forms. My form, briefly, is that the players would group into Townships
>[snip clear explanation]
>
>  My main objection is this:  in what way is this different from creating
>entirely seperate Nomics?

Because they are all governed by the same Global Ruleset. Because there may
be Global Points, that members of all townships can gain. There may be
Ackanomic Olympics, which would be a bunch of SubGames held between
townships. All players would still be in Acka, and would still participate
together on a Global level, but would also have local events and local rules
(which would defer to global rules). InterNomic is somewhat like this among
different nomics, except that InterNomic has no power. The Global Rule Set
would have power, and would therefore keep Acka as a unified whole. What's
the difference between the United States and 50 different countries, or
Canada's provinces and different nations?

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:58:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation 

>  Acka-Official is too long.  Am I the only one who has trouble with
>subjects running off to the ri|5/12/57|R|S|
>  ?

I agree, I'd prefer a separate mailing list than a different subject header.
Anything to minimize the traffic on the main list.

>  I joined because of that quantity. :-)  But I agree it would be a good
>idea to provide some separation.

I don't want less messages sent, I just want them well divided up.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:01:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ambassadorness 

>Also, I think it would be best if we set up a formal procedure for changing
>our status.

Yes. Perhaps the Ambassador, the President (or the Senate), and 25% of the
active players must agree to change the status? Or just the Ambassador and
President/Senate, but they can only do it after x% of the players petition
them to do so.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:02:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ambassadorness 

>>I think we should ally with internomic and make ourselves hostile towards
>>Ackanomic.
>>
>>Also, I think it would be best if we set up a formal procedure for changing
>>our status.
>
>  Either put it to the senate, or just make a proposal each time - there's
>really nothing wrong with the mechanism.

Nothing wrong with it, but it's always fun to have a formal mechanism with
just the precise amount of harfiness.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:03:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Robert Sevin's House 

>> You are welcome to do so. I could use some guests. Are you
>> following the discussion of your Expert status in the Senate
>> mailing list?
>> 
>What is the status of the senate mailing list? Are observers welcome?

I believe so. Only the Postmaster could truly answer your question. There's
no reason they shouldn't be...

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:16:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Feathers?

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Phil Ackley wrote:
> Oh, oh no.  I think I understand what I didn't before.
	Botany Bay...  --Botany Bay?  Oh, *no*!

- -- 
Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:23:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Announcements (was Re: Acka: Observation)

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> I also keep an extra copy of the rules files which I use to generate
> the others from some scripts; the next web-harfer may not do this the
> same way, but it's the only sane way to keep the two versions synchronized.
	There is a better way.  Keep the rule texts in separate files
and use a CGI script to generate them on request.  Actually this is a
bit more flexible as well, altho naturally it hits the machine
somewhat harder (probably not enough to be annoying to a console user
tho, especially if your CGI runs at a lower priority than everything else.)

- -- 
Mohammed
It's a shame how rocking horses from Zaire treat dogs from Brazil.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:02:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Mitchell Harding wrote:
> Why do we still have the point system, btw? It seems to create more trouble
> than it's worth. There have, throughout the history of Acka, been complaints
> about people performing actions solely to gain or lose points. Is the system
> fun and harfy enough that we want to keep it?
	No.  (Speaking for myself only of course.)

- -- 
Mohammed
A farmer suddenly blew up for fame and fortune.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:14:33 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Re: Observation

After reading Alfvaen's somewhat garbled yet impassioned outburst at the
mangling to eir Frankenstein Monster,  I admit I was in agreement with em
about eir cry for Impeachment;  if it were possible for me to vote in an
IP,  I would have done so gladly.

Yet after reading Malenkai's Observations,  I also begin to see that
there are indeed two sides to the issue.  I would stil vote for
Impeachment in this case,  but I draw the line at calling eir win a
"cheap" victory.

When I first read the offending phrase in one of Malenkai's Proposals (I
can't remember which,  and as a Non-Voting Player I didn't keep a record
of it),  I thought to myself "What's e up to?"  When the Proposal was
retracted and resubmitted with the phrase intact,  I really began to
wonder.  If I had been a Voting Player,  I would have definitely given it
even more thought.  The possibility for this scam was out there in plain
sight the whole time.Non of the rest of us had the gumption to try it, 
nor the insight to spot it coming and try to head it off.  Other scams
were detected and successfully foiled,  sometimes with a lot of
imagination and Harf,  sometimes with a blunt object.  This scam,  while
in hindsight was very obvious and seemingly effortless (I assume that's
why some are calling it a "Cheap" scam) I believe that Malenkai's hard
work at keeping up with the Ruleset  and eir understanding of the
repurcussiopns of the permissable  took a long time and a lot of effort
on eir part to develop.  

As for the game of nomic itself,  it has *always*  been my understanding
that writing Proposals to benefit oneself and taking advantage of
oversights in others' works was part of what this game was all about. 
Most of my early submissions had this in mind,  and their blatantly poor
disguise was probably the major cause of their downfall.  As far as I'm
concerned,  there are really only two types of Rules in any nomic: those
that make it easier for me to win,  and thopse that make it harder for
someone else to win.  Harf,  ease of task accomplishment and more
invigerated gameplay are secondary byproducts that ultimately make
passage of one of the two basic types easier,  not the sole reason for
writing them.

Lately,  I have found that my capacity for insight into the Ruleset,  and
my ability to successfully disguise advantageous legislation was not up
to the standard of other,  more experienced or educated Players.  But I
didn't want to give up on this game yet.  So when the option of
Non-Voting was established,  I felt this was a way for me to remain
active,  without the headaches of competition.  I also felt that there
were possibilities as yet unexplored with this option,  and therefore I
would have an even footing (or even an advantage)   by trying an
unexplored frontier.  

Ultimately for me,  the only truly "cheap" win is one where one Player
does all the work ferreting out the loophole,  and before it can be
closed,  another Player takes advantage of the same loophole.  I do
believe this has happened at least once in Acka and probably most nomics.
 As I recall,  the Player who did this was severely flamed and may have
even left the game because of it.  (My memory isn't what it used to be.) 
Therefore,  please don't begrudge Malenkai eir win,  just because e's
been so successful at it before.  After reading the "personal info"
posts,  I know that many of you are just as smart and educated as the
next Player and if you really wanted to win,  you would put as much
thought into the Rules as Malenkai (as well as others) has.

But I would still vote for Impeachment;  you really messed up what could
have been a cool Frankenstein Monster.
  
Which reminds me.  Malenkai,  before you *are* Impeached,  could you
build me a BV Add-On for my Vending Machine?  You will be handsomely
paid.

Voting Gnome
waiting for Mr. Nacho's official ack on my purchase.

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #128
*******************************