Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #98
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest         Tuesday, May 27 1997         Volume 02 : Number 098

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:51:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 380 Verdict 

Call For Judgement 379
Subject: Non-Volunteering Mentor Payments
Initiator: /dev/joe
Judge: Niccolo Flychuck
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:
If a non-volunteering mentor is selected, he receives the A$25 payment for
mentoring only after he accepts the assignment.

Reasoning:
See rules 252 and 253.  It is quite possible that the opposite is true --
that he gets the A$25 immediately, even if he then declines the selection;
in that case, the next mentor selected also gets A$25.  I need to know, one
way or the other.

Niccolo Flychuck's Reasoning:
In the back of my mind I have this nagging feeling that I accepted CFJ
about Mentors, and I was going to judge it false, and I can't find a
record of it.

Anyway, if I indeed accepted this CFJ, and haven't missed the deadline,and
if it me legal for me to do so, thenI am judging it false, I think that
mentors, regardless of whether they are on the mentor list  are allt
reated identically (sorry for this way informal format - packing packing
packing)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:54:12 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 381 (CnH) 

This has been reassigned to Calvin N Hobbes.

Call For Judgement 379
Subject: Non-Volunteering Mentor Payments
Initiator: Alfvaen
Judge: Guy Fawkes (Failed to deliver judgement)
Second Judge: Calvin N Hobbes
Judgement:

Statement:
The voting period on proposals 1944-1975 (?) was extended by one week.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:
When Rule 106 was abducted by aliens, it ceased to have any game effect.
Mostly this resulted in players being unable to vote on proposals, but the
clause that "The prescribed voting period on a proposal is seven days" must
also have been affected.  There was therefore _no_ set expiry date for
proposals after the rule was abducted.

Furthermore, in Rule 1131, the Alien Abduction rule proper, it says "All
nomic business related to said rule will be put on hold until the rule is
returned....Any deadlines that would be violated because of the abduction
shall be extended one week."  Now obviously the voting deadlines have been
violated because it was _not_ possible for players to vote for all of the
seven days' prescribed voting period.

Therefore, upon the return of Rule 106, with the added "deferment" clause,
it must abide by Rule 1131 and extend the proposal voting deadlines by one
week.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:55:25 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 383 (snowgod) 

Call For Judgment
Subject: Partial Repeals
Initiator: Guy Fawkes
Judge: IdiotBoy (left the game)
Second Judge: snowgod
Judgement:

Statement:

The acceptance of proposal 1992 does not cause rule 207 or rule 709 to
be changed in any way.

ThinMan's Reasoning:

Proposal 1992 contained the following two provisions:

	Repeal Rule 207, Section V [Effect of Proposals which do not
	meet Quorum]

	Repeal Rule 709, paragraph 4.  [Players in Gaol and Quorum]

The potential problem with these is that it is questionable whether it
is possible to "repeal" _parts_ of rules.

The rules no longer specify in detail what changes may be made to the
rules.  Until recently, however, they indicated that rules could be
created, amended, or repealed.  No room was allowed for repeal of
parts of rules.  Indeed, the effect that Guy Fawkes intended to achieve
may have been an amendment of the rules in question.

Because the rules no longer specify explicitly whether the changes
indicated by P1992 are legal, we must fall back on game custom to
interpret the rules.  In the past we have excised parts of rules by
amending the rules, not by attempting to "repeal" those parts.  To
whatever extent that indicates custom, the questionable clauses of
P1992 may be ineffective.  Alternatively, the judge only need find
that an attempt to "repeal" part of a rule is meaningless.

I cite Rule 104:

	If the proposal consisted of a list of one-time effects, such as
	changes to the rules, then those effects shall be applied, one
	at a time, in the order in which they appear in the proposal.
	(Ambiguous, conditional, retroactive, and/or meaningless effects
	are ignored.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 20:56:50 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 384 (You can call me Al) 

Call For Judgment
Subject: Possible Polythiesm
Initiator: Alfvaen
Judge: fnord (Failed to respond)
Second Judge: You can call me Al
Judegement:

Statement:

A player can be a member of more than one Church at a time.

Alfvaen's Reasoning:

According to Rule 102, "Resolving Conflicts", if two sections of the same
rule conflict, and there is no other section of the rule that resolves the
conflict, then the statement occurring later in the rule takes precedence.
I quote the revelant sections of Rule 1301, "Churches":

(Rule 1301)
      6. A player may not be a member of more than one Church at the same
time.

7. a. Any player may petition the Founder of a Church for membership
in that Church.
b. If Church Policy has nothing to say on accepting new members, then
Church membership will be up to the Founder. However, a Player cannot
become a member of a Church until the Founder of the Church sends a
public announcement to that effect.

So, in essence, clause 6 applies only so long as it does not contradict the
Church Founder's own whims regarding membership of eir Church, whose effect
on Church membership takes precedence by occurring later in the rule.  No
player can belong to more than once Church at a time, unless the founders of
the latterly-joined Churches decide that they are willing to accept the
player.  (Subject to Church Policy, of course, but there is nothing to say
that Church Policy has to reject players who are already members of
Churches, either.)  Clause 6 is thus entirely nullified by Clause 7, since
it can be ignored by Church Founders and makers of Church Policy with
impunity.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 00:40:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 381 (CnH)

> This has been reassigned to Calvin N Hobbes.
> 
> Call For Judgement 379
> Subject: Non-Volunteering Mentor Payments
> Initiator: Alfvaen
> Judge: Guy Fawkes (Failed to deliver judgement)
> Second Judge: Calvin N Hobbes

This is wrong.  Guy Fawkes judged it False; the verdict and reasoning
was published way back on May 14.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 22:07:45 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 381 (CnH) 

>> This has been reassigned to Calvin N Hobbes.
>>
>> Call For Judgement 379
>> Subject: Non-Volunteering Mentor Payments
>> Initiator: Alfvaen
>> Judge: Guy Fawkes (Failed to deliver judgement)
>> Second Judge: Calvin N Hobbes
>
>This is wrong.  Guy Fawkes judged it False; the verdict and reasoning
>was published way back on May 14.
>
>/dev/joe

Hmm, I'll have to check that.  I must have mistyped the subject line or
something, because when I sorted all my messages together, I never had a
verdict for that one.

Mr. Nacho

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 02:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: New CFJ page

Okay. I've put up a "current CFJ" web page that should serve for the
interim. This will essentially have the same information that
Malenkai's CotC page would normally supply.

http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/acka/cfjs.html

Presumably /dev/joe will link to this off the main page....

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:14:43 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Score report

/dev/joe wrote:

> 15      ThinMan              Av  (John Bollinger)
> 
The destruction of my Victory Eggplant should be noted by the
Scorekeeper.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:43:15 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: CFJ 381 (CnH)

Mr. Nacho wrote:

> This has been reassigned to Calvin N Hobbes.
> 
> Call For Judgement 379
> Subject: Non-Volunteering Mentor Payments
> Initiator: Alfvaen
> Judge: Guy Fawkes (Failed to deliver judgement)
> Second Judge: Calvin N Hobbes
> Judgement:
> 
[etc.]
First, I assume that the subject line is correct about the CFJ number,
and the text incorrect?

Second, did GF accept judgement?  If so then (1) he is a Deadbeat, with
the associated effects, and (2) the CFJ is reassigned to the Praetor.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker
Praetor
Expert on the Judicial System

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:00:03 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Elections and Presidential Nomination

Alright.

The elections ended Sunday morning, and here are the results:

Senate
- ------

    IdiotBoy (2)
    --------
    Techno
    Bascule

    Robert Sevin (7)
    ------------
    breadbox
    Mr. Nacho
    ThinMan
    Alfvaen
    Vynd
    Niccolo Flychuck
    CarsesraC

    You can call me Al (3)
    ------------------
    Red Barn
    mr cwm
    Robert Sevin

Ackaphysicist
- -------------

    Alfvaen (7)
    -------
    ThinMan
    Techno
    Bascule
    Vynd
    Alfvaen
    mr cwm
    CarsesraC

    CarsesraC (1)
    ---------
    Robert Sevin

    Red Barn (2)
    --------
    Red Barn
    Mr. Nacho

    two-star (0)
    --------

    You can call me Al (0)
    ------------------

Robert Sevin is re-elected to the Senate, and Alfvaen is elected to
the post of Ackaphysicist.

I am not sure whether YCCMA's retraction of his Senatorial candidacy
is legal, but it doesn't make any difference.  I will also note that
IdiotBoy may have narrowly escaped being elected to the Senate by the
rather dubious and underhanded machination of leaving the game.  He
was ahead in the polls with five of the eight votes cast at the time
that he announced his departure.

In other news, snowgod resigned as President less than one week before
his term would have expired anyway.  I am hereby announcing the start
of a nomination for the office of President of Ackanomic.  The
nomination will end in three days.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:17:08 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: IdiotBoy

breadbox wrote:

> With oddly mixed emotions, I hereby nominate IdiotBoy to the Hall of
> Elders.
> 
The following players confirmed the nomination:

ThinMan
Red Barn
CnH
You Can Call Me Al
Vynd
CarsesraC
Mr. Nacho
Alfvaen
two-star
Antimatter
Habeous Corpus (yes, non-voting players are permitted to do this)
mr cwm
Bascule

IdiotBoy thus received a total of 13 confirmation points.  There were
23 active players at the end of the confirmation period; 13 is in
excess of 11.5, so IdiotBoy is confirmed.

IdiotBoy is enshrined in the Hall of Elders.  The Web-Harfer and
Historian both have duties with regard to this event.

An Ackanomic Holiday is placed on the calendar.  If we can determine
the date upon which IdiotBoy originally joined the game, then that
will be the date of the Holiday.  Hopefully the Registrar has a record
of that; otherwise, perhaps /dev/joe can find it in the archives.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:33:10 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ping?

Alfvaen wrote:

> So who has the Machine That Goes *ping*?  Has it gone to anyone since
> CarsesraC refused it?
> 
CarsesraC did not actually refuse it -- rather, he tried to trade his
house to another Player in order to make that Player become Scholar.
I think that might have worked, if anyone had taken him up on it.  To
my knowledge, however, no one did.  Reassignment of the Machine is
overdue, but wait just a moment -- the Machine has appeared in ...
[click, click, click, rattle, rattle, *clunk*, thud, pitter patter
pitter patter pitter patter] ... /dev/house!

ThinMan
Acting OICRT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:39:09 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Ping?

I wrote:

> overdue, but wait just a moment -- the Machine has appeared in ...
> [click, click, click, rattle, rattle, *clunk*, thud, pitter patter
> pitter patter pitter patter] ... /dev/house!
> 
I find that I still have the Pedestal of *ping*.  How embarrassing.
I hereby transfer it to /dev/joe.

#transfer ThinMan, /dev/joe: Pedestal of *ping*: gift

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 07:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: IdiotBoy

> An Ackanomic Holiday is placed on the calendar.  If we can determine
> the date upon which IdiotBoy originally joined the game, then that
> will be the date of the Holiday.  Hopefully the Registrar has a
> record of that; otherwise, perhaps /dev/joe can find it in the
> archives.

IdiotBoy joined Ackanomic twice. According to the Registrar's web
page, the first time was on August 30 1996, and the second time on
February 13 1997.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:47:41 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Potato + Aliens

Antimatter receives the Magic Potato this week.  I think that means
that Niccolo Flychuck receives the Great Tuba.

#transfer Niccolo Flychuck, Antimatter: Magic Potato: .
#transfer two-star, Niccolo Flychuck: Great Tuba: .

The Sinister Aliens selected the following TDN's:

1321  <-- This is a Rule (Rama-lama-ding-dong)

Rule 1321 has been abducted by Aliens.  Note that it will return in
time to still require Priests to say their prayers for the month of
June.

ThinMan
Acting OICRT

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 09:48:48 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: IdiotBoy

breadbox wrote:

> IdiotBoy joined Ackanomic twice. According to the Registrar's web
> page, the first time was on August 30 1996, and the second time on
> February 13 1997.
> 
Thank you.  August 30 is now an Ackanomic Holiday, "Elder IdiotBoy's
Day."

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 08:44:34 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Finance 

It ust occured to me that I never purchased that laser, and that I owe a
couple of people money.  Thinman, I hereby transfer to you A$80 (whih I
think is a tad bit more than you gave me).  SOmeone else donated... so, I
am hereby creating a trinket with a value of A$50 that looks just like
A$50.  It is called repayment.

I am burying repayment as treasure.  THe map reads:

Repayment will be found by the player other than ThinMan who donated money
to snowgod for an earth defense laser when he publically states that he has
done so.

snowgod

#trinket snowgod : 50 : repayment : repayment for missle
#transfer snowgod, ThinMan : A$80
#transfer snowgod, Buried : repayment

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 11:55:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ping?, house name

ThinMan wrote:
> Reassignment of the Machine is
> overdue, but wait just a moment -- the Machine has appeared in ...
> [click, click, click, rattle, rattle, *clunk*, thud, pitter patter
> pitter patter pitter patter] ... /dev/house!

Actually, the name of my house is /dev/snowgod, due to some treasure
or other I claimed from him.  But since that isn't even his name
any more, and keeping in the spirit of having the house's name somehow
correspond to the name of the player formerly known as snowgod,
I am renaming my house to:

  /dev/house-o-cheese

/dev/joe
lives in the only house named for Nachodude's current name
BTW, is snowgod going to change his name back some time soon?
I'd hate to have to really change all the records.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:42:40 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Beldin's tailor bribe redux, laundry money for Bedin's Parka, CFJ 379

Some housekeeping here.

award two-star: -1 A$: Beldin's Parka: May 22 12:00 EDT

I would like to offer Antimatter his choice of 55 A$, 6
PFtwo-star, or my vote on any two proposals not authored by myself, in
exchange for amending the rule "Beldin's Pants" by changing the word
"loses" in the last sentence to "gains". If he can do this before noon
Thursday, so much the better.

Nobody seemed to notice it last time I said it, so,
I accepted CFJ 379 at Thu, 15 May 1997
13:30:23 -0700, and delivered judgment at Thu, 22 May 1997 14:45:34
- -0700, so dock me for negligence and retract my judgement.

award two-star: -10: procrastination never pays: 15 May 1997 16:30 EDT

This CFJ should be reassigned to the praetor, who, quite coincidentally, 
has absolutely no say in the mater of removing Beldin's Parka, should 
any person discover how to wear it.

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:54:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: key stuff

The stuff the goose holder is supposed to keep track of --
last night this happened:

#award Robert Sevin: -7 A$: gold key
#award ThinMan: -1 processing chip: bronze key

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:18:34 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Beldin's tailor bribe redux, laundry money for Bedin's  Parka, CFJ 379

two-star wrote:

> Nobody seemed to notice it last time I said it, so,
> I accepted CFJ 379 at Thu, 15 May 1997
> 13:30:23 -0700, and delivered judgment at Thu, 22 May 1997 14:45:34
> -0700, so dock me for negligence and retract my judgement.
> 
I noticed, but I did not respond.

> award two-star: -10: procrastination never pays: 15 May 1997 16:30 EDT
> 
I'm not sure without researching it whether you can actually do this
(voluntarilly donate money to the Treasury).  I'm inclined to think
not, but that's not definitive.  Oh, and 'bot commands are preceded by
a "#" character.

> This CFJ should be reassigned to the praetor, who, quite
> coincidentally, 
> has absolutely no say in the mater of removing Beldin's Parka, should 
> any person discover how to wear it.
> 
Quite so.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker
Praetor

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:52:01 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: [some snipped stuff], CFJ 379

Bollinger, John C. wrote:
> 
> two-star wrote:
> 
> > Nobody seemed to notice it last time I said it, so,
> > I accepted CFJ 379 at Thu, 15 May 1997
> > 13:30:23 -0700, and delivered judgment at Thu, 22 May 1997 14:45:34
> > -0700, so dock me for negligence and retract my judgement.
> >
> I noticed, but I did not respond.
> 
> > award two-star: -10: procrastination never pays: 15 May 1997 16:30 EDT
> >
> I'm not sure without researching it whether you can actually do this
> (voluntarilly donate money to the Treasury).  I'm inclined to think
> not, but that's not definitive.  Oh, and 'bot commands are preceded by
> a "#" character.
> 

I'm not donating money, I meant to make a point deduction, but I forgot 
that it uses a different format. I can put the # in.

#May 15 1997 16:30 EDT two-star: -10: procrastination never pays

Or is there not supposed to be a # for this? 

**two-star

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:01:25 +0200
From: Erikk Piper <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Hall of Elders

I, too, would hate to see Idiot Boy (who I no less-than-not-at-all, but
never mind) fail to get into the Hall of Fame for my inactivity. I
umpteen his nomination.

Eris Discordia

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:02:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elections and Presidential Nomination

> Ackaphysicist
> -------------
> 
>     Alfvaen (7)
>     -------
>     ThinMan
>     Techno
>     Bascule
>     Vynd
>     Alfvaen
>     mr cwm
>     CarsesraC

Thank you all for your stirring confidence in me.  I will endeavour to
fulfill the office of AckaPhysicist with the utmost harf, and hope that my
paltry efforts will match that of my distinguished predecessor, Calvin N
Hobbes.

I'd also like to note that nominations for the now-vacant post of Mad
Scientist have not begun.  I find no obstacle in the rules to being both
AckaPhysicist and MadScientist, so I'd be perfectly happy to plump for both
positions...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Barenaked Ladies:The Old Apartment
Current Book--C.S. Friedman:Black Sun Rising
I've got a love and it won't stop burning

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 12:10:20 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: HTML Standard, Volume I number 1

Welcome to the first issue of the HTML Standard!

The HTML Standard is currently accepting submissions. While we regret 
that we cannot currently pay our authors, we hope that the opportunity 
to enhance our character set is sufficient incentive for anyone with an 
Outrageous Accent. Please send submissions to two-star, 
[email-masked], with Acka: HTML in the subject line, and I 
will publish them at the earliest conveniet time.
**

Accented Characters

The following strings beginning with the & character and ending with the 
; character represent accented characters, in accordance with rule 
500.1. Each is an accented form of the character which follows the & 
character, and each may be capitalized. A brief description has been 
provided for each.

&acirc; a a with a circumflex
&eacute; a e with an acute accent
&ntilde; a n with a tilde
&ouml; a o with an umlaut.
&qtip; a q with a rouded bulb at the bottom of the stem. 
&ugoslavia; a u which is currently divided into 5 parts of different 
sizes.
&trex; a t with a crown on top.
&spresso; a s with many tiny jagged zigzags.
&mbarrassed; a m that is a rosy shade of pink.
&levated; an l which is one character height above the other characters 
on the same line.
&rpentomino; the r pentomino, which despite looking nothing like the 
letter r, is an accented form of that character.

**two-sta&rpentomino;, Editor-in-chief

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 13:08:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ping?

> > So who has the Machine That Goes *ping*?  Has it gone to anyone since
> > CarsesraC refused it?

> CarsesraC did not actually refuse it -- rather, he tried to trade his
> house to another Player in order to make that Player become Scholar.

Well, to quote his original message:

: I really like to study this machine, but I have no time. If I had 
: time I would prove that the earth is flat. Which is very easy to 
: prove, but that's the question at the moment. 

Now this isn't quite the precise wording of the refusal text, so the
question is, I suppose, whether or not the precise wording is required to
refuse the machine, or not.

> I think that might have worked, if anyone had taken him up on it.  To
> my knowledge, however, no one did.

It would have been worth a CFJ, at least, to see if it was possible...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Barenaked Ladies:The Old Apartment
Current Book--C.S. Friedman:Black Sun Rising
Think locally, act globally.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Enfants

My concern is a little different than most:  what is the difference
between the Enfants and Townships?

Or, for that matter, Churches (which, as Malenkai would point out if
he were here, already exist and serve almost the complete range of
services that Enfants would serve)?

I liked the Township idea, and it was fairly well developed.  I would
like to see some of the Enfant ideas mixed with that and submitted as
one big proposal.

- -- 
Mohammed
I always laugh at the one and only mutant baker.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:11:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Enfants

Mohammed wrote:
> My concern is a little different than most:  what is the difference
> between the Enfants and Townships?
> 
> Or, for that matter, Churches (which, as Malenkai would point out if
> he were here, already exist and serve almost the complete range of
> services that Enfants would serve)?
> 
> I liked the Township idea, and it was fairly well developed.  I would
> like to see some of the Enfant ideas mixed with that and submitted as
> one big proposal.

The difference, as I see it, is that because of the bit of (what would be)
Acka's rules that says players in Enfants have to follow the enfants'
rules, etc., violating an enfant's rules could get you penalized in Acka
as well as in the Enfant.  Plus it provides more possibilities for
loophole surfing.  I haven't yet found a way to get around that "legal
scope" clause to use an Enfant to somehow break something in Ackanomic,
though, but I haven't given up on that idea, either. :-)

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:09:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elections and Presidential Nomination

>I'd also like to note that nominations for the now-vacant post of Mad
>Scientist have not begun.  I find no obstacle in the rules to being both
>AckaPhysicist and MadScientist, so I'd be perfectly happy to plump for both
>positions...

  BwaHaHa!!!  This is part of my master plan!!!  I hereby nominate myself
for the office of Mad Scientist, you pathetic fools!  Igor, get the
*brains*...

____________________________________________________________________________
|The Mauve Baron|  Beep  [email-masked] * http://www.bergen.org/~dankna|
|---------------|  Blip  |-------------------------------------------------|
|   Dan Knapp   |  Bonk  |     This notice copyright (C)1997 Dan Knapp     |
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Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:30:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Enfants

On Tue, 27 May 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> The difference, as I see it, is that because of the bit of (what would be)
> Acka's rules that says players in Enfants have to follow the enfants'
> rules, etc., violating an enfant's rules could get you penalized in Acka
> as well as in the Enfant.
	I believe this is already the case for churches.  Lemme go
find it.  (pause)  Rule 1301, section 3c.

c. A Player who disobeys the Church Policy of a Church of which he or
she is a member is guilty of Iconoclasm, which is a Crime. It is
impermissible for a Player to take a game action which constitutes
Iconoclasm if he or she has any legal alternative which would not
constitute Iconoclasm. [That is, Iconoclasm normally doesn't happen
unless there is no alternative. It is possible for a player to commit
Iconoclasm by inaction, though.]

- -- 
Mohammed
Blind extravagant mutant taxi drivers from Indiana plead not guilty.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:16:29 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: once again, with Acka:. sorry guys.

Welcome to the first issue of the HTML Standard!

The HTML Standard is currently accepting submissions. While we regret
that we cannot currently pay our authors, we hope that the opportunity
to enhance our character set is sufficient incentive for anyone with an
Outrageous Accent. Please send submissions to two-star,
[email-masked], with Acka: HTML in the subject line, and I
will publish them at the earliest conveniet time.
**

Accented Characters

The following strings beginning with the & character and ending with the
; character represent accented characters, in accordance with rule
500.1. Each is an accented form of the character which follows the &
character, and each may be capitalized. A brief description has been
provided for each.

&acirc; a a with a circumflex
&eacute; a e with an acute accent
&ntilde; a n with a tilde
&ouml; a o with an umlaut.
&qtip; a q with a rouded bulb at the bottom of the stem.
&ugoslavia; a u which is currently divided into 5 parts of different
sizes.
&trex; a t with a crown on top.
&spresso; a s with many tiny jagged zigzags.
&mbarrassed; a m that is a rosy shade of pink.
&levated; an l which is one character height above the other characters
on the same line.
&rpentomino; the r pentomino, which despite looking nothing like the
letter r, is an accented form of that character.

**two-sta&rpentomino;, Editor-in-chief

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:26:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 382

I will explain below why I believe CFJ 382 is still FALSE.

At time T, player P attempts the illegal trinket creation.  Consider
the two possible game threads.  In thread 1, the creation was attempted,
but did not occur, and player P is guilty of a Crime.  In thread 2, the
creation succeeds.  Before the two weeks have elapsed, thread 1 is the
correct thread (supported by the rules) but nobody has noticed this, so
everybody is playing thread 2.

In thread 1, at time T + 2 weeks, the retroactivity clause kicks in,
making the trinket creation retroactively legal, and making thread 2
(retroactively!) the correct game state.

Guy Fawkes argues that in thread 2, since there is no cause for the
trinket creation becoming legal, it doesn't ever become legal, returning
the correct game state to thread 1.  There is a cause, but it *is not*
in thread 2!

Guy Fawkes also argues that the retroactive cause and the retroactive
effect cannot occur in the same game thread.  He is correct on this point.
This is the nature of retroactivity.  Anything with a retroactive effect
*necessarily* moves the game into a different game thread than the one
where the retroactive effect occurred, because in the history that
preceded the creation of the retroactive effect, that effect did not
originally occur!  (If the new game thread also has the retroactive cause,
which can't happen here but could with other types of retroactivity, in
that thread it is a null effect, because the effect already occurred.)

His statement "Effects must have causes, and causes must have effects,"
is true but misleading.  If he means that every effect must have a cause
in the same game thread, that is not true when retroactivity exists.
Guy Fawkes is naturally biased to believe this, because he (like all the
rest of us, I think) lives in a real world that doesn't have retroactivity
(at least, not that we know of).

If you accept retroactivity, time travel, etc., you *must* reject the
idea that every effect must be caused by something in the same time line,
because the whole nature of retroactivity conflicts with this idea.
Almost any science fiction that involves time travel shows this.  If
you believe in time travel, you must also believe in events whose causes
are in other time lines.  (For instance, in Star Trek: Voyager, the
holo-doctor's mobile holo-emitter was created with 29th century technology
which ended up on 20th century earth due to a time-traveling accident,
in a "time thread" which is not Voyager's native one.  The crew of Voyager
now has this device in the 24th century, due to their travels through time,
but it was created outside of their own "history".  Sorry to those of you
who don't watch Voyager and have no idea what this example is talking about.)

For those who like to look at things graphically, it looks like this:

             trinket creation illegal
                -----------------------------*
               /
- --------------A                           A+2wks
               \
                ------------------------------------------------>
             trinket creation legal

The "trinket creation illegal" thread invalidates itself after 2 weeks,
when the retroactive action makes the other thread the correct one.
However, this thread *does exist*, and, in fact, contains the cause
for the legality of the otherwise illegal action in the other thread!

Given that there *is* a cause for the legality of the trinket creation
in the 2nd thread, nothing in that thread returns it to the first thread.

Incidentally, if the scenario holds true -- that is, the illegality is
not noticed until after the 2 weeks is over -- the verdict of a CFJ on
"the trinket creation was legal" is TRUE regardless when it was submitted.
If it happens after the 2 weeks is over, the creation was legal as
described above.  If it happens before the 2 weeks is over, it is judged
TRUE, because the reason it should be FALSE is not yet noticed, and if
it *is* noticed, then the CFJ is FALSE, but the premise of our scenario
is invalidated -- it was noticed as illegal before the 2 weeks is up.

I developed this reasoning a few days ago, but held off on posting it
while I looked for another possible paradox win.  Finding none, I am
now making it public.

/dev/joe
If this is ultimately judged FALSE, I'm going to apply for expert
status in Time Travel. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:32:50 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: [some snipped stuff], CFJ 379

two-star wrote:

> I'm not donating money, I meant to make a point deduction, but I
> forgot 
> that it uses a different format. I can put the # in.
> 
Pointlog entries do not use a #, but should also only be written by
certain officers.  In this case, the acting CotC should be issuing the
pointlog entry.  He also should have caught the late verdict in the
first place.  Mr. Nacho is, however, somewhat unfamiliar with the CotC
job, and we should cut him some slack.  /dev/joe, our intrepid and
ever-vigilant Scorekeeper may have already picked up the errant
entry.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:02:31 -0800
From: "Ross Morgan-Linial" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

"Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Antimatter receives the Magic Potato this week.  I think that means
> that Niccolo Flychuck receives the Great Tuba.

Okay, now what does that do? I think this means I should go read those rules 
again...
- -------------------------------
Antimatter * [email-masked]
You have the power of negation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:11:07 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Potato + Aliens

> "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > Antimatter receives the Magic Potato this week.  I think that means
> > that Niccolo Flychuck receives the Great Tuba.
> 
> Okay, now what does that do? I think this means I should go read those
> rules 
> again...
> 
You get extra points for any of your proposals that pass, and you also
become Beldin's Tailor.  Do look up the latter.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 14:16:25 -0800
From: "Ross Morgan-Linial" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Beldin's tailor bribe redux, laundry money for Bedin'

> I would like to offer Antimatter his choice of 55 A$, 6
> PFtwo-star, or my vote on any two proposals not authored by myself, in
> exchange for amending the rule "Beldin's Pants" by changing the word
> "loses" in the last sentence to "gains". If he can do this before noon
> Thursday, so much the better.

Sorry, but...

I am amending the rule Beldin's Pants by changing "Ackadollar" to "trinket".
- -------------------------------
Antimatter * [email-masked]
You have the power of negation.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:30:42 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Beldin's tailor bribe redux, laundry money for Bedin'

> > I would like to offer Antimatter his choice of 55 A$, 6
> > PFtwo-star, or my vote on any two proposals not authored by myself, in
> > exchange for amending the rule "Beldin's Pants" by changing the word
> > "loses" in the last sentence to "gains". If he can do this before noon
> > Thursday, so much the better.
> 
> Sorry, but...
> 
> I am amending the rule Beldin's Pants by changing "Ackadollar" to "trinket".

In an attempt to save the Inky Bloater from imminent destruction, I offer
to buy it back from two-star for A$20.  (Then all that will happen is the
destruction of the Parka itself.  Not that that will stop two-star from
being the creator of it or anything...and what happens when he has no more
trinkets?  For that matter, what does it mean to "lose" a trinket?  Is it
necessarily destroyed?  Perhaps it just goes Somewhere Else.)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--They Might Be Giants:Dead
Current Book--C.S. Friedman:Black Sun Rising
I'm confused as a baby at a topless bar!

------------------------------

Date: 27 May 1997 17:37:44 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Actions 

I am:

1) Going from the Museum to Xanadu
2) supporting IdiotBoty's hall of elders nomination

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:50:10 +0000
From: "Bascule" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Acid Rain Dance

As the owner of the Brass Umbrella, I request that Alfvaen perform 
the Acid Rain Dance.

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 16:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 382

BTW, I want to let the record show that the Supreme Court has already
turned in their decision on CFJ 382 to the Clerk, and did so before
the deadline and well before /dev/joe posted his analysis of same. Any
resemblances there may be between his post and the Supreme Court's
reasoning is, essentially, coincidental.

breadbox
Justice

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:53:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elections 

>Robert Sevin is re-elected to the Senate, and Alfvaen is elected to
>the post of Ackaphysicist.

I'd just like to thank everyone who voted in the election, and my fellow
candidates. I'll work hard to be the harfiest Senator that I can possibly be.

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:17:41 -0400
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 384 (You can call me Al) 

At 08:56 PM 5/26/97 -0900, you wrote:
>Call For Judgment
>Subject: Possible Polythiesm
>Initiator: Alfvaen
>Judge: fnord (Failed to respond)
>Second Judge: You can call me Al
>Judegement:

With respect, I have to decline to judge on this CFJ - I haven't the time
right now. Thanks.

Al

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:37:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Another not quite RFC

Well, I intimated in my last RFC that I had some interesting ideas about
how we should conduct voting.  The more thought I give them,
unfortunately, the worse of an idea it seems.  Since I gave everyone a
teaser, I'll share them anyways.  Who knows, maybe you'll like them
anyways.

There's really only one central idea here, making votingsomething that can
only be accomplished through a public message.  We had a taste of this
before our last Postal Code change, but that was unintentional.  I thought
at the time that it might be interesting to do for real though.

Public voting would, I think, have a number of consequences.  First and
foremost, it would mean a lot more public posts.  This could, for some
people at least, be a bad thing.  My internet acess is pretty good, but I
realize  that others might not really want an aditional 10 or 15 messages
per proposal (well, perhaps not that many) that consist of one or two
lines of text declaring one's vote.

On the bright side, I think public voting would lead to a lot of
discussion, both public and private.  Since we'd still be able to change
our votes, quite a bit of bribery and subterfuge might well result.
Political parties might (gasp) sell their votes to the highest biders.
Swing voters might swap their votes back and forth in an attempt to get
the points for not being in the majority.  Blocks of players might
secretly agree to switch their votes at the last second to take advantage
of said Swing voters vacilations and get the results they want.  The
powerful Narfalone family might step in and start rigging, err, assisting,  
the voting to keep their gambling operation running smoothly.  The list
goes on...

This would be a big shift for Acka, and one I'm not sure everyone would
really be comfortable with.  The situation I depicted above is a rather
cutthroat one, and I realize some, perhaps even a lot, of Ackazens might
not want to see the game go in that direction.  This change would also
probably be quite technicaly complex, a lot of rules tie into voting one
way or another, and a lot of work goes into keeping track of them.  Hence
this RFC.  Besides the most important goal of finding out what people
think of the concept, I'd like to hear from you all as to what kind of
subtle changes you think would be necessary to make this work.  I'm
especially interested in hearing what our distinguished promoter and
tabulator thinks of the idea, as it would obviously have a major effect on
his job.

                               - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #98
******************************