Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #79
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest          Friday, May 9 1997          Volume 02 : Number 079

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 02:53:53 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: 

All Trinkets and Treasures, up to and including those posted 
tonite, should be updated.  Have fun, I shall see you all in June;
hopefully the proposals results will have been released by then ;-).

The Internomic web pages are also up to date.  Given the rate of change
of that game state, missing a month of updates probably will not be
noticed.

Malenkai
the solution to T106 has nothing to do with the direction parades take

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:14:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses 

>I would like to run an unofficial game of viruses via a hybrid email/IRC
>mechanism either (or all of, it it's a hit) tomorrow, Friday, or Saturday
>nights, depending on interest and how fast I can get the Viruses program
>I'm writing as practice for my CS final debugged.

  Good idea.

>If you'd like to be involved, tell me and I'll try to have it running by a
>time everyone can play.

  Absolutely.

- -Red Barn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:35:28 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: I'm not so shy

IdiotBoy wrote:

> On Wed, 7 May 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:
> 
> > Goony it may be, but "netiquette" is a widely-used word in the
> Internet
> > community.  But that's neither here nor there.  We are glad to have
> > you on board, and you will find that we are a rather forgiving bunch
> > most of the time.  The best way to get over awkwardness is to jump
> in
> > and get yourself some experience, and we don't bite. 
> 
> I, hereby, bite our Esteemed Acting Speaker firmly on his left calf
> and
> hang on for dear life with my teeth.
> 
> IB
> Ackanomic's First Rabid Dog.
> 
Believe it or not, IB, I almost made an exception for you when I wrote
those comments.  Really.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker
Practicing Prescience

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: I'm not so shy

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:

> Believe it or not, IB, I almost made an exception for you when I wrote
> those comments.  Really.
> 
> ThinMan
> Acting Speaker
> Practicing Prescience
> 

Noticing the exceptional lack of surprise on ThinMan's face, I let go of
his leg to allow him to go about his duties.

IB
kenneled

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 06:39:18 -0700
From: Joshua Nave <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm not so shy

Matt Miller wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 8 May 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:
> 
> > Believe it or not, IB, I almost made an exception for you when I wrote
> > those comments.  Really.
> >
> > ThinMan
> > Acting Speaker
> > Practicing Prescience
> >
> 
> Noticing the exceptional lack of surprise on ThinMan's face, I let go of
> his leg to allow him to go about his duties.
> 
> IB
> kenneled

If I were still an active player, I'd write a proposal to send both of
you to the dog house.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:49:49 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: I'm not so shy

IdiotBoy wrote:

> Noticing the exceptional lack of surprise on ThinMan's face, I let go
> of
> his leg to allow him to go about his duties.
> 
> IB
> kenneled
> 
That's a good IdiotBoy.  Now go and howl outside Mohammed's house for
an hour or two.  :-)

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:53:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation

Malenkai wrote:
> "I don't like this".  For example, I personally disliked the
> organizational re-org, [...] People know this; I don't need to say
> it every time [...]
	Boy, do I know this.  :o)

- -- 
Mohammed
This winter a quiet mutant jolly pirate ran over stop signs.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:00:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  mail

Hi, remember me?  I'm reading thru my mail for the past week or so and
I have to ask... Are you people crazy?  I went over quota from keeping
all this mail on my account (although it probably had more to do with
the six to eight half-meg object files I kept rebuilding) and now I
have 408 messages representing just under a meg of mail to take care
of.  Not to mention the fact that I'm several hours overdue on the
aftermath of the alien stuff.

If you are in needful search of BWG try usenet.  It's great.

Exams are over for me; I wish you all good luck on yours, if I'm not
too late.

- -- 
Mohammed
Weird things happen to fifty giant quiet silly nomads.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:22:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: speed viruses

I will be on IRC tonight beginning about 9:30 CST ready to run a game of 
viruses with whoever shows up.  If you can't make it exactly then but 
still want to play, don't worry; my program is capable of adding players 
midgame (bless dynamic memory allocation!).  

Moves will be sent to me via email.  The game board will be updated after 
each generation at 

http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~shimmin/virus/output.txt.

See you there!

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:11:25 -0500
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> 
> I have an interesting subgame experiment in mind.
> 
> I would like to run an unofficial game of viruses via a hybrid email/IRC
> mechanism either (or all of, it it's a hit) tomorrow, Friday, or Saturday
> nights, depending on interest and how fast I can get the Viruses program
> I'm writing as practice for my CS final debugged.
> 
> The game will be run as follows:
> IRC will be very helpful to coordinate the game, although those players
> without IRC access will be able to participate so long as they don't mind
> sitting around waiting for email announcements to arrive.
> 
> On IRC (and email, if required), I will announce the beginning of each
> round.  IRC will also serve as a place for players to chat while
> waiting for moves to be processed.  Players will email their move(s) to
> the referee (that's me) -- hopefully within a few minutes, and I will feed
> them to my program, and I will email the results to everyone.
> (Alternatively, I could post the current results on the web -- (What's the
> UNIX permission code for the directory and file to make it viewable?) --
> feedback on this would be welcome.
> 
> If everything runs smoothly, and players don't ponder over their moves for
> forever and a day, I estimate a pace of about 6-10 minutes per round,
> barring any email holdups.  Realizing a lot of people are busy this time
> of year, we don't have to play an entire game (hey, it's unofficial) but I
> would like to test the IRC/email hybrid game-playing.
> 
> If you'd like to be involved, tell me and I'll try to have it running by a
> time everyone can play.
> 
> Guy Fawkes

Sounds great to me.  I'm big into such abstract games.  I think I'll add
Viruses to my PBeMServer software, if you don't mind it (and I'll credit
you if you're the one who made it up; if not, we'll see what happens).

Sunflare
avid "game of life"r

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:06:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

> Sounds great to me.  I'm big into such abstract games.  I think I'll add
> Viruses to my PBeMServer software, if you don't mind it (and I'll credit
> you if you're the one who made it up; if not, we'll see what happens).
> 
> Sunflare
> avid "game of life"r

/dev/joe adapted it for multiplayer email play.  He credits a man named 
John Conway and his "Game of Life," which I'm guessing was a 
single-player puzzle that appeared in _Games_ magazine.  (That's just a 
guess -- if I'm wrong, /dev/joe is free to enlighten us.)

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:12:22 -0800
From: "Ross Morgan-Linial" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > Sounds great to me.  I'm big into such abstract games.  I think I'll add
> > Viruses to my PBeMServer software, if you don't mind it (and I'll credit
> > you if you're the one who made it up; if not, we'll see what happens).
> > 
> > Sunflare
> > avid "game of life"r
> 
> /dev/joe adapted it for multiplayer email play.  He credits a man named 
> John Conway and his "Game of Life," which I'm guessing was a 
> single-player puzzle that appeared in _Games_ magazine.  (That's just a 
> guess -- if I'm wrong, /dev/joe is free to enlighten us.)

John Conway's "Game of Life" is a simple cellular automaton with very complex 
behavior, which has been shown to be capable of universal computation. The 
original was not really a game at all, since there was no human input of any 
sort, except for setting up the original configuration. There are many 
simulators available, and it's not hard to write one yourself.
- -------------------------------
Antimatter * [email-masked]
You have the power of negation.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:49:51 -0500
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> /dev/joe adapted it for multiplayer email play.  He credits a man named
> John Conway and his "Game of Life," which I'm guessing was a
> single-player puzzle that appeared in _Games_ magazine.  (That's just a
> guess -- if I'm wrong, /dev/joe is free to enlighten us.)
> 
> Guy Fawkes

"The Game of Life" is a simulation Conway made up in the seventies to
simulate populations.  I don't think it ever appeared in _Games_
magazine as such, because it's not really a game.  I've done an
implementation of it, if you'd like a copy eMail me.  But it originated
nowhere near the hallowed halls of _Games_ magazine. :-)

Sunflare
irked that he doesn't have an Acrobot name :-P

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:18:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm feeling observant

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Matt Miller wrote:
> If I have to do a second thing,  I think I'd skip the bit right before '76
> and just keep on going.
>
> IB
> this assumes time is malleable
	*dull look*  What?

- -- 
Mohammed
backlogged

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:23:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Registrarness

> The second new observer is LadyAnn, no real name given, who's email address
> is [email-masked] (I pity the guy who has to remember
> that).
	Indeed.  It looks like one of Malenkai's treasure clues.  :o)

- -- 
Mohammed
Nomads suddenly blew up for fame and fortune.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 17:52:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

On Fri, 2 May 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> The treasure may be found by publicly posting the name of the hobbit
> who found the ring after Gollum lost it.
	My girlfriend recently read the Prose Edda for a Mythology
class she is taking and was surprised to find a few familiar names
among the characters... as it turns out Tolkein must have lifted the
names of Galdalf, Thorin, and in fact all thirteen of the dwarves from
Norse mythology!
	(I'm sure there's at least one die-hard Tolkein fan here who
already knew that, but *I* was astonished.)

- -- 
Mohammed
A nomad taunted funny bald televangelists.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:38:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: yet another treasure

breadbox wrote:
> You turned the computer off. By doing so, in every circumstance (ie, a
> sequence of key strokes or other user actions) where it would have
> crashed before (every time), it is stable now. And in any circumstance
> where it would have been stable (never), it crashes.
	But then, how did he write the e-mail announcing the treasure,
given that his computer was off?

- -- 
Mohammed
Lawyers and half a bajillion rude buccaneers barely escaped from six
singing nuns.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:52:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Finance Correction

On Wed, 7 May 1997, Matt Miller wrote:
> > Given the arguments presented yesterday, I believe I was foo-harfer (for
> > foo = bond, undead, trinket, entity) when salaries were paid, so I
> 
> I much prefer the construct (for foo in {"bond", "undead", "trinket",
> "entity"}).

	What about (map {harfer $0} [bond undead trinket entity])

- -- 
Mohammed
Ants stalked clowns from another planet on three continents.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:09:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: is Mohammed coming back?

On Wed, 7 May 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:
> Anyone know?  It's kind of hard to do anything without him around to
> distribute proposals, accept votes, etc.  I have no ill will towards him,
> but if he isn't supposed to be back soon, I may have to urge his
> impeachment or something so we can get on with stuff already.
	Hi!  I'm back and I'm in the process of slogging through the
409 messages that were in my Acka mailbox.  If you've never seen
[Closing mailbox acka.  Keeping 308 messages, deleting 98]
I hope you never have to.  :oP  Also I have strep throat but that's no
excuse...  :o)x
	Vynd, please, have patience, or failing that, at least the
courtesy to wait until the three-day Speed limit has expired before
you start to harass an officer for tardiness.

> While I'm here, did we ever come to a consensus on whether or not
> people could vote on the proposals who's voting periods went into
> limbo with the removal of Rule 104 last week?
	Nah, that would have made my job too easy.  :o)  I have all the
mail in that thread, tho, and I'll come to a decision tonight and
probably get everything back on track before tomorrow.

> I am still of the opinion that the Aliens rule causes
> their voting periods to be extended by a week.  If there is agreement on
> this, then any votes people have submitted this week on said proposals
> would be valid, and everything is cool.  If there are people who really
> don't agree with this interpretation, then I feel a thread split coming
> on...
	There shall indeed be a thread split if anyone CFJs the matter
after my decision is made.  I'm leaning toward taking the "seven days"
in rule 106 as absolute; 106 takes precedence over the alien rule.
But I'll have to go back over the mail.

- -- 
Mohammed
late
A few funny sweet aquatic macaws from another planet stalked a single
rocking horse from Yale relentlessly.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:11:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  does Mohammed eat pineapple pizza?

> The only argument against it is that the abducted rule ended them when it
> returned -- except the alien mutation of the rule makes it defer to all
> other unmutated rules.  If the aliens rule did in fact extend the
> deadlines, then it now takes precedence over the abducted rule, so all may
> be OK in the land of Acka :).
	That's what I thought, too, but unfortunately the aliens rule
does indeed contain that sentence so the normal precedence scheme applies.

- -- 
Mohammed
In Canada, many squids overran the world.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 19:19:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

> Sunflare
> irked that he doesn't have an Acrobot name :-P
	You do now.

- -- 
Mohammed
Weird things happen to quick detectives.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:32:08 -0400
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses 

>"The Game of Life" is a simulation Conway made up in the seventies to
>simulate populations.  I don't think it ever appeared in _Games_
>magazine as such, because it's not really a game.  I've done an
>implementation of it, if you'd like a copy eMail me.  But it originated
>nowhere near the hallowed halls of _Games_ magazine. :-)

I learned a GRRRREAT deal about Life from Martin Gardner's mind-boggling
book, _Wheels, Life, and Other Mathematical Amusements_. Gardner was the
predecessor, of course, of a Mr. Douglas Hofstadter - I'm sure you've heard
of him (and I hope you've read _Metamagical Themas_!!). ;v) Gardner's book
contains three nice, long chapters on Life - you'll instantly see where
Viruses comes from. You can play a rudimentary game on an Othello board or a
checkerboard - it's a blast.

You can call me Al once I've voted on all the proposals...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 23:07:33 -0500
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Speed viruses

[email-masked] wrote:
> I learned a GRRRREAT deal about Life from Martin Gardner's mind-boggling
> book, _Wheels, Life, and Other Mathematical Amusements_. Gardner was the
> predecessor, of course, of a Mr. Douglas Hofstadter - I'm sure you've heard
> of him (and I hope you've read _Metamagical Themas_!!). ;v) Gardner's book
> contains three nice, long chapters on Life - you'll instantly see where
> Viruses comes from. You can play a rudimentary game on an Othello board or a
> checkerboard - it's a blast.
> 
> You can call me Al once I've voted on all the proposals...

Never read either.  Gonna go look them up on amazon.com now.

Anyone else here on the Acka have ideas for books that can increase our
gaming enjoyment, either by presenting interesting polisci stuff (like
_Themas_ with Nomic) or games we can "easily" translate into the Acka
scheme?

Sunflare
who believes that Netscape should come with a Surgeon General's warning

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:22:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: is Mohammed coming back?

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Jason Orendorff wrote:

> 	There shall indeed be a thread split if anyone CFJs the matter
> after my decision is made.  I'm leaning toward taking the "seven days"
> in rule 106 as absolute; 106 takes precedence over the alien rule.
> But I'll have to go back over the mail.

Correction---  Rule 106 _took_ precedence over the alien rule.  Since its
mutation, it is but a shadow of its former glory...
Speaking of which, someone needs to right a report of the matter.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:27:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Aliens et al...

Attention Grammarians, come to the aid of your nomic!

From the aliens rule:

A) If the Rule does not already contain the sentence "This Rule defers to
all other Rules which do not contain this
     sentence.", then that sentence is appended to the Rule. 

The question: is a sentence, quoted within another sentence, still a
sentence, or is it merely a clause within that sentence and not actually a
sentence itself?

GF

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:27:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: is Mohammed coming back?

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Guy Fawkes wrote:
> > 	There shall indeed be a thread split if anyone CFJs the matter
> > after my decision is made.  I'm leaning toward taking the "seven days"
> > in rule 106 as absolute; 106 takes precedence over the alien rule.
> > But I'll have to go back over the mail.
> 
> Correction---  Rule 106 _took_ precedence over the alien rule.  Since its
> mutation, it is but a shadow of its former glory...
	It still takes precedence over the alien rule.  I believe Rule
106 says "This rule defers to all other rules except those that
contain this sentence" or something very similar; and the same
sentence appears in the aliens rule.

> Speaking of which, someone needs to right a report of the matter.
	There were a few very helpful comments in the mail but nothing
definitive.  The bot just released a bunch of results based on the
assumption that the voting periods ended Monday as soon as the rule
came back into effect, and all votes since then have been no good.

- -- 
Mohammed
A quick babe plead not guilty.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:33:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Aliens et al...

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Guy Fawkes wrote:
> A) If the Rule does not already contain the sentence "This Rule defers to
> all other Rules which do not contain this sentence.", then that sentence
> is appended to the Rule.
> 
> The question: is a sentence, quoted within another sentence, still a
> sentence, or is it merely a clause within that sentence and not actually a
> sentence itself?
	Well, the rule refers to it as a sentence ("the sentence 'xxx'")
therefore I am interpreting it as one.  It is debatable tho.  Feel free to
CFJ-- that's the fun part.

- -- 
Mohammed
cough tout to lunch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:44:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Correction

You Can Call Me Al's votes on the last four proposals that were
finalized (to wit, Pp 1963, '67, '68, and '69) should be ignored.  Al
cast these votes via cgi during an eight-minute window (!) tonight
when the bot was accidentally left unlocked.

The upshot of this is:  P1963 is still rejected; P1967 is still
accepted.  However, P1968 failed quorum.

Updated results on P1969 and the proposals following it are
forthcoming.  Thanks for your patience.

- -- 
Mohammed
At the University of Upstate New York at Albany thousands of superheros ran
over farmers.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Correction

> The upshot of this is:  P1963 is still rejected; P1967 is still
> accepted.  However, P1968 failed quorum.
> 
> Updated results on P1969 and the proposals following it are
> forthcoming.  Thanks for your patience.

The last time there was a quorum failure, we almost had a crisis
because nobody who got put on vacation by the failure was permitted to
become active again until two full days had passed.

I seem to remember that we generally agreed that this was an
unintended effect, and should probably be changed. I also seem to
remember that it was changed.

And so it was, but not quite the way I expected. I find in Rule 254:

> Any non-voting player may become a voting player by posting publicly
> that they are doing so; e begins as Pending. A player may not do so
> within two days of having joined as a non-voting player or of having
> changed from voting to non-voting status, voluntarily or otherwise.

The only real change is that the effect is explicit and decidedly
intentional.

Somebody tell me that there is a good reason for this.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:12:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Correction

On Thu, 8 May 1997, Jason Orendorff wrote:
> You Can Call Me Al's votes on the last four proposals that were
> finalized (to wit, Pp 1963, '67, '68, and '69) should be ignored.  Al
	That should be 1963, '66, '67, and '68.

> The upshot of this is:  P1963 is still rejected; P1967 is still
> accepted.  However, P1968 failed quorum.
	This may or may not be accurate.  The bot's table of who's in
what state was a bit out-of-date.  Anitmatter, Guy Fawkes, and
two-star, who were all labelled Pending, were in fact Active; Malenkai
is on Vacation; and Narf has left the game.  (Did I miss anyone?)
	Due to all this oddness which slipped my mind I'm going to
feed P1963+ back into the bot (maybe further back if it looks like it
made a difference) and have it harf them again.
	Oops.

- -- 
Mohammed
The birthday of a distant singing sourfaced detective is a national holiday
over there.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:30:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:  Correction 3

Please also ignore You can call me Al's votes in the last few
proposals; I forgot to remove his votes from the bot's records before
moving along.

I checked; Al's invalid votes did not affect the fate of any of
the proposals, so the "accepted" or "rejected" in each case is
correct.

Now we get to see whether the bot crashes in the case where the number
of active players has dropped to 0.  (This is, in fact, the case.)  I
don't remember programming for it.  Happily, when you divide by 0 in
python you get an exception rather than a core dump.

- -- 
Mohammed
Have you ever seen a mutant giant extravagant glamorous violent farmer
from Yale with that kind of plumage?

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #79
******************************