Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #78
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest         Thursday, May 8 1997         Volume 02 : Number 078

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 09:04:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Finance Correction

Given the arguments presented yesterday, I believe I was foo-harfer (for
foo = bond, undead, trinket, entity) when salaries were paid, so I
earned another A$100 in salaries, and Sunflare's starting cash was A$892
instead of A$888 because of it.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:11:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Finance Correction

On Wed, 7 May 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Given the arguments presented yesterday, I believe I was foo-harfer (for
> foo = bond, undead, trinket, entity) when salaries were paid, so I

I much prefer the construct (for foo in {"bond", "undead", "trinket",
"entity"}).

IB
wasting the bandwidth we don't use so much anymore.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 17:38:20 -0400
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: I'm not so shy

Please excuse my tardiness in sending this message. 

You may remember a few days ago (a week?) when an certain observer came on 
acka-board who called herself "LadyAnn." That was me. For the past few days 
I've been reading your mail to my own great amusement.

I didn't mean to be secretive by not giving my real name (It's Amanda Wagner),
but I am a bit of a newbie, and I don't know the "Netiquette" (this is a goony
little vocabulary word from my Intro to Comp. Sci. class) very well, so if seem
a bit awkward, that's why. 

Feeling like a virgin,
LadyAnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:01:09 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: I'm not so shy

LadyAnn wrote:

> Please excuse my tardiness in sending this message. 
> 
Not at all.  Observers are in no way obligated to communicate with the
rest of the game at all.  Many don't.  They are all more than welcome
to do so, however, and may find doing so to be a better introduction to
the game than is observation alone.

> You may remember a few days ago (a week?) when an certain observer
> came on 
> acka-board who called herself "LadyAnn." That was me. For the past few
> days 
> I've been reading your mail to my own great amusement.
> 
I'm glad to hear it.  I've been reading our mail to _my_ own great
amusement, too  :)

> I didn't mean to be secretive by not giving my real name (It's Amanda
> Wagner),
> but I am a bit of a newbie, and I don't know the "Netiquette" (this is
> a goony
> little vocabulary word from my Intro to Comp. Sci. class) very well,
> so if seem
> a bit awkward, that's why. 
> 
Goony it may be, but "netiquette" is a widely-used word in the Internet
community.  But that's neither here nor there.  We are glad to have
you on board, and you will find that we are a rather forgiving bunch
most of the time.  The best way to get over awkwardness is to jump in
and get yourself some experience, and we don't bite.  You may observe
as long as you like, and you are free to comment.  If you decide that
you would like to join as a player then we would be very glad to have
you.  If not, no problem; there is no obligation.

ThinMan
Acting Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:07:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: I'm not so shy

On Wed, 7 May 1997, Bollinger, John C. wrote:

> Goony it may be, but "netiquette" is a widely-used word in the Internet
> community.  But that's neither here nor there.  We are glad to have
> you on board, and you will find that we are a rather forgiving bunch
> most of the time.  The best way to get over awkwardness is to jump in
> and get yourself some experience, and we don't bite.  You may observe
> as long as you like, and you are free to comment.  If you decide that
> you would like to join as a player then we would be very glad to have
> you.  If not, no problem; there is no obligation.
> 
> 
> ThinMan
> Acting Speaker
> 

I, hereby, bite our Esteemed Acting Speaker firmly on his left calf and
hang on for dear life with my teeth.

IB
Ackanomic's First Rabid Dog.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 15:19:09 -0700
From: Joshua Nave <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm not so shy

Bollinger, John C. wrote:
> 
> LadyAnn wrote:
> 
> > Please excuse my tardiness in sending this message.
> >
> Not at all.  Observers are in no way obligated to communicate with the
> rest of the game at all.  Many don't.  They are all more than welcome
> to do so, however, and may find doing so to be a better introduction to
> the game than is observation alone.

Heck, as an ex player-current observer, I can understand your
hesitancy... This game can be overwhelming, so take my advice -- just
jump in headfirst and don't mind where you splash <grin>.  Acka was my
first experience with Nomics, and I learned a lot playing here.  I enjoy
the tone of this game enough to hang out as an observer, but I'm
involved in other Nomics now and didn't want the time committment to
keep playing in this one.

If you do decide to join in... make sure you read and take advantage of
the Crazy French-Scottsman rule (There are a few of us nutty frog-scotts
around, but I was the first).

> > You may remember a few days ago (a week?) when an certain observer
> > came on
> > acka-board who called herself "LadyAnn." That was me. For the past few
> > days
> > I've been reading your mail to my own great amusement.

If you want real amusement, check out the history of Ackanomic page, off
the main home page.  Or go through the archive of proposals, paying
special attention to the Harfy proposals of Snowgod.  Oh, and if you
should join the game, send Malenkai email saying you want to be part of
the Narfalone family...  I think he's preparing to run a little scam...

> I'm glad to hear it.  I've been reading our mail to _my_ own great
> amusement, too  :)
> 
> > I didn't mean to be secretive by not giving my real name (It's Amanda
> > Wagner),
> > but I am a bit of a newbie, and I don't know the "Netiquette" (this is
> > a goony
> > little vocabulary word from my Intro to Comp. Sci. class) very well,
> > so if seem
> > a bit awkward, that's why.

Goonies are good enough.  Or something like that.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 21:38:19 EDT 
From: [email-masked] (Ed  Graham)
Subject: Acka:  In a Hurry

First,  allow me to welcome all the other observers and ex-observers (now
Players) to Ackanomic,  the most fun you can have with a mouse.  Let me
urge all prospective Players (and other observers) to register soon,  and
jump right in with Proposals,  wearing Prosthetic Foreheads (*)  and
especially Votes.  I realy like it when a new Player Votes for the first
time!

(*)  Remember:  Use Habeus Corpus'  Vending Machine to get your Rock to
Wind a String Around for your PH purchases;   for the next thiryt (30)
days they're on sale for A$3,  only from HCVM,  -not- a subsidery of the
Frobozz Magic Vending co.
(end of shameless advertising.)

Second,  I want to get in on the current Treasure hunting craze,  too. 
Being only so-so at solving Treasure Maps myself,   I guess I'll have to
bury a Treasure and make up a map of my own.  Look for it in a couple of
days.  As for the treasure itself,   see third Item below.

Third,  I am creating a Trinket worth A$1 (not really,  but that's the
lowest amount I am allowed to use).  It is called the Wouf Houng.  It is
a wood and metal object approximately one (1) meter in length.  I am
burying the Wouf Houng (along with an undisclosed second item)  and
creating a Treasure map showing their location.  The entire map,  in some
form,  will be made available publicly on May 16.  Any and all Players or
Observers of Ackanomic may recieve an advance copy of the map by
PRIVATELY send me an accurate description of the Wouf Houng.  NOTE: 
Anyone suffering from snowgod's disease who posts a description of the
Wouf Houng to a public forum shall be deemed ineligible to recieve the
Treasure,  and shall be responsible for an early public release of the
map.  This will make the offender subject to sneering and public
ridicule. 

Fourth,  in an attempt to keep a couple of aging and useless traditions
alive in Acka,   and in making a further attempt to nudge Acka out of its
Hidebound state,  I am announcing that I wish to buy the Little Lamb.  I
am currently chewing the Ackanomic Gumball (TM)  and will attempt to feed
it to the lamb once it has become nice and soft.

Habeus Corpus
pretty busy for a non-voting dead guy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:17:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm not so shy

On Wed, 7 May 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> Please excuse my tardiness in sending this message. 
> 
> You may remember a few days ago (a week?) when an certain observer came on 
> acka-board who called herself "LadyAnn." That was me. For the past few days 
> I've been reading your mail to my own great amusement.

Relax; most observers don't send us mail until they either decide to join
as players or send us a "How can a get this <insert colorful metaphor
here> game out of my mailbox?" message.  It's always good to have some
fresh blood around -- new players often provide a fresh look at the
ruleset and traditions that brings more to the game than you could
possibly imagine.

I'm glad we amuse you.  And if you feel the urge to join as a player,
please do.

Guy Fawkes
the two-headed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:43:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka:  In a Hurry

Habeous Corpus wrote:
> I realy like it when a new Player Votes for the first time!

As do I.

> (*)  Remember:  Use Habeus Corpus'  Vending Machine to get your Rock to
> Wind a String Around for your PH purchases;   for the next thiryt (30)
> days they're on sale for A$3,  only from HCVM,  -not- a subsidery of the
> Frobozz Magic Vending co.

Vending Machines can only have their price changed to an even number of A$.
Besides, they only cost A$2 at my vending machine, at least for a few more
days.

> Third,  I am creating a Trinket worth A$1 (not really,  but that's the
> lowest amount I am allowed to use).  It is called the Wouf Houng.  It is
> a wood and metal object approximately one (1) meter in length.  I am
> burying the Wouf Houng (along with an undisclosed second item)  and
> creating a Treasure map showing their location. 

Whatever the undisclosed second item is, it is not really buried.  The rules
don't allow the contents of treasures to be secret.  If you want to give the
item to whoever finds the treasure, though, that's fine.

> Fourth,  in an attempt to keep a couple of aging and useless traditions
> alive in Acka,   and in making a further attempt to nudge Acka out of its
> Hidebound state,  I am announcing that I wish to buy the Little Lamb.  I
> am currently chewing the Ackanomic Gumball (TM)  and will attempt to feed
> it to the lamb once it has become nice and soft.

I have recorded the change in possession of the little lamb, but the gumball
cannot be chewed on the first Wednesday in a month.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:47:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  In a Hurry

> First,  allow me to welcome all the other observers and ex-observers (now
> Players) to Ackanomic,  the most fun you can have with a mouse.  Let me
> urge all prospective Players (and other observers) to register soon,  and
> jump right in with Proposals,  wearing Prosthetic Foreheads (*)  and
> especially Votes.  I realy like it when a new Player Votes for the first
> time!

Oh boy!  Well, I just voted yesterday...I think.  Since this Acrobot that
I'm told is to help in expediting the voting process seems to be down for
repairs(and it's not mentioned anywhere in the rules anyway), I just send a
message to Mohammed with a bunch of proposal numbers and votes next to each
of them.  After his paper's, done hopefully he'll be able to process it
properly...

> (*)  Remember:  Use Habeus Corpus'  Vending Machine to get your Rock to
> Wind a String Around for your PH purchases;   for the next thiryt (30)
> days they're on sale for A$3,  only from HCVM,  -not- a subsidery of the
> Frobozz Magic Vending co.
> (end of shameless advertising.)

Sure, why not!  I'll buy one of those Rocks.

#transfer Alfvaen,Habeous Corpus(or his Vending Machine): A$3: RTWASA purchase

I'll just keep it around for a few days, though, because I like to see
things sitting in my PE record.  (One day I hope to have as many things as
Malenkai and /dev/joe...)

> Fourth,  in an attempt to keep a couple of aging and useless traditions
> alive in Acka,   and in making a further attempt to nudge Acka out of its
> Hidebound state,  I am announcing that I wish to buy the Little Lamb.  I
> am currently chewing the Ackanomic Gumball (TM)  and will attempt to feed
> it to the lamb once it has become nice and soft.

Hmmm.  This month is an odd month, and Gumball days might not conform to
expectations.  Today is the 7th, and hence is the first Wednesday of May.
According to Rule 903, the Gumball can be chewed on the second Wednesday,
which will be the 14th.  However, since the 1st was a Thursday(the first,
and someone could have chewed the Gumball then, but I don't recall that
anybody did), the third Thursday is the 15th.  So the Gumball can
apparently be chewed on the 1st, 14th, 15th, and 28th of May.

Of course it makes more sense the other way.  Maybe we should amend the
rule to take care of cases where the month begins on a Thursday.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Song--Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young:American Dream
Current Book--Storm Constantine:The Monstrous Regiment
I say, put Schrodinger in the box & see how HE likes it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:52:33 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm not so shy

> You may remember a few days ago (a week?) when an certain observer came on 
> acka-board who called herself "LadyAnn." That was me. For the past few days 
> I've been reading your mail to my own great amusement.

So you must have started watching about the same time I started as a
player, then.  Yes, it does look like fun, doesn't it?

> I didn't mean to be secretive by not giving my real name (It's Amanda Wagner),
> but I am a bit of a newbie, and I don't know the "Netiquette" (this is a goony
> little vocabulary word from my Intro to Comp. Sci. class) very well, so if seem
> a bit awkward, that's why. 

Everyone's been a newbie once.  It's just that some people were newbies
back when everyone else was a newbie, so nobody made much of a fuss about
it.  (And now they're just insufferable...:-)  Personally, I've found that
newbies are often the most enthusiastic about things, because they don't
know that everything's been tried before and found not to work...:-)  (Have
I been reading too much Dilbert?)

> Feeling like a virgin,

I'll just point out here that, as far as I can tell, there are no currently
active female players, so I imagine Ackanomic is starting to smell like a
locker room or something.  Hopefully you won't get horndogged or
anything...  (Hmmm...does horndogging observers fall under the 'Politeness
Moon' rule?)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Song--Lee Aaron:Sweet Talk
Current Book--Storm Constantine:The Monstrous Regiment
A New PBS Special: Burrowing Trees of the Serengeti

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:55:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  In a Hurry

> > (*)  Remember:  Use Habeus Corpus'  Vending Machine to get your Rock to
> > Wind a String Around for your PH purchases;   for the next thiryt (30)
> > days they're on sale for A$3,  only from HCVM,  -not- a subsidery of the
> > Frobozz Magic Vending co.
> 
> Vending Machines can only have their price changed to an even number of A$.

Oh, poot!

> Besides, they only cost A$2 at my vending machine, at least for a few more
> days.

Well, despite /dev/joe's sleazy attempt at undercutting(cunningly planned
over three weeks ago, by the looks of things), I'm still going to buy from
Habeous Corpus, as long as he doesn't raise his price up to A$10/rock or
anything.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Song--Steve Earle:Copperhead Road
Current Book--Storm Constantine:The Monstrous Regiment
Heck was created for those who refuse to believe in Gosh.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:18:37 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Yet another new trinket and treasure

Since nobody responded to my offer to buy one of their trinkets, and a
couple of days have passed so that I don't feel bad about making a new
one(and there's now an official Trinket-Harfer and everything), I will
create the following trinket:

#trinket Alfvaen:The White Tent The Raft:A$50

This is an ordinary wooden raft, approximately ten feet on a side, made
from some kind of smooth wood bound together in some nonobvious fashion.
One side has been planed to complete flatness; the other is still bumpy.
On the flat side is pitched a small white tent, its pegs driven securely
into the raft's wood in such a way that they cannot be easily dislodged.
There is sufficient room for two people to sleep inside the tent, if they
don't mind getting cosy, and the same two people(or a different two, or one
of them and a different one)can sit out in front of the tent if they cross
their legs or dangle them over the edge into the water.  (The raft is so
balanced that it wil not capsize if both people go to the same side.)

Now I am burying The White Tent The Raft(don't worry, it won't be any the
worse for its inhuming), and will reveal its location to the winner of the
Alfvaen Tagline Attribution Quiz, Mark II, whose rules follow(with some
repetition, but a few changes):

Some of you may have noticed that in my email signature, I include
something different every time on the bottom line(which I call a
"tagline", from the time spent on Fidonet).  These come from a variety
of sources--some from my own twisted little brain, some from other
people's collections, some from song lyrics, some from books, some from
the Net, some from comics.  Now they don't all have identifiable
sources, but some do.

I'm looking for the source, specified as explicitly as possible--if
it's a song, the title and at least one artist who's recorded it.  I'll
let you know if you've specified it well enough.  If I've already
attributed it--it's got something like "--billbill" on the end--it
doesn't count either.  (Most of those are from the good folks on
talk.bizarre, with some exceptions.)  And it doesn't count if it was
identified in the previous instance of this Quiz, either.  :-) For your
own benefit, send it in a private message to me, because if you spill
it publicly, anyone else can send it in, too.  You don't need to
identify them all at once; I'll keep track of who's sent in how many.
(Oh, yeah, they're only eligible if I've posted them in a _public_
message to one of the Acka mailing lists.)

There is a list of the taglines at
http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/acka/tags.html, and I will try to keep
it up to date, for those people who don't archive all their email like
I do.  :-)  And I will be continuing to post more of them on new
messages.  I'm genuinely curious to see which ones people will be able
to identify, and who will be able to.  There may be some clues on my
Web page, since for instance I've got my entire album collection up
there.  I don't care how you get your information, if you've got the
right answer.

The winner of the Quiz will be the one who first gets 10 points, or the
entrant with the highest score at the end of two months from today(May 5,
1997).  If there are multiple entrants with the highest score, the contest
will be extended until the tie is broken.

Scoring is as follows:
    If I myself did not know the original attribution of the quote, then
    I will award two points to the player who can provide me with a
    reference(or two, preferably), upon my checking and finding it valid.
    (If you can find online references, my chances of being able to check
    it promptly are vastly increased.)

    If it is a They Might Be Giants quote, I will award half a point for
    a correct identification.  (I mean, c'mon, I know who I'm dealing with
    here, and I don't want to make things too easy...)

    Any other correct identification that is not disqualified by above
    rules will be worth one point.

As an extra bonus, anyone who can identify the sources of the three
trinkets I've created so far(the Inky Bloater, the Manx Cat and The White
Tent The Raft)will get a point for each of those as well, and for any other
trinkets that I create before the end of the contest that I don't
specifically disallow.

Good luck!

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Song--Split Enz:Six Months In A Leaky Boat
Current Book--Storm Constantine:The Monstrous Regiment
The turning world will sing our souls to sleep.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: When is Mohammed coming back?

Anyone know?  It's kind of hard to do anything without him around to
distribute proposals, accept votes, etc.  I have no ill will towards him,
but if he isn't supposed to be back soon, I may have to urge his
impeachment or something so we can get on with stuff already.  While I'm
here, did we ever come to a consensus on whether or not people could vote
on the proposals who's voting periods went into limbo with the removal of
Rule 104 last week?  I am still of the opinion that the Aliens rule causes
their voting periods to be extended by a week.  If there is agreement on
this, then any votes people have submitted this week on said proposals
would be valid, and everything is cool.  If there are people who really
don't agree with this interpretation, then I feel a thread split coming
on...

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:42:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: When is Mohammed coming back?

The only argument against it is that the abducted rule ended them when it
returned -- except the alien mutation of the rule makes it defer to all
other unmutated rules.  If the aliens rule did in fact extend the
deadlines, then it now takes precedence over the abducted rule, so all may
be OK in the land of Acka :).

Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 7 May 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> Anyone know?  It's kind of hard to do anything without him around to
> distribute proposals, accept votes, etc.  I have no ill will towards him,
> but if he isn't supposed to be back soon, I may have to urge his
> impeachment or something so we can get on with stuff already.  While I'm
> here, did we ever come to a consensus on whether or not people could vote
> on the proposals who's voting periods went into limbo with the removal of
> Rule 104 last week?  I am still of the opinion that the Aliens rule causes
> their voting periods to be extended by a week.  If there is agreement on
> this, then any votes people have submitted this week on said proposals
> would be valid, and everything is cool.  If there are people who really
> don't agree with this interpretation, then I feel a thread split coming
> on...
> 
>                                  - Vynd
> 
> [email-masked]
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:51:30 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: When is Mohammed coming back?

> The only argument against it is that the abducted rule ended them when it
> returned -- except the alien mutation of the rule makes it defer to all
> other unmutated rules.  If the aliens rule did in fact extend the
> deadlines, then it now takes precedence over the abducted rule, so all may
> be OK in the land of Acka :).

As far as I can read the rule, it says that "any deadlines that would be
violated because of the abduction shall be extended one week".  Which, to
me, deals with exactly such things as R106 being abducted.  At least, I'm
hoping that I got a chance to vote on some of the proposals that were in
the queue, since no other new ones have been submitted, and, as I may have
mentioned before, I'm tired of being Pending.  :-)

As for the Promoter's harriedness, perhaps things would have worked better
had he gone on Vacation for a week, and an Acting Promoter could have done
his work.  But hopefully he'll be back soon, and then I can start
bombarding him with all the revolutionary new proposals that have been
burgeoning in my system.  (Well, maybe I'll space them out, to increase my
Magic Potato chances...:-)

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Joe Jackson:Laughter & Lust
Current Book--Storm Constantine:The Monstrous Regiment
This writing is all fake, so you should go away and not read any of it.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:52:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Speed viruses 

I have an interesting subgame experiment in mind.

I would like to run an unofficial game of viruses via a hybrid email/IRC
mechanism either (or all of, it it's a hit) tomorrow, Friday, or Saturday
nights, depending on interest and how fast I can get the Viruses program
I'm writing as practice for my CS final debugged.

The game will be run as follows:
IRC will be very helpful to coordinate the game, although those players
without IRC access will be able to participate so long as they don't mind
sitting around waiting for email announcements to arrive.

On IRC (and email, if required), I will announce the beginning of each
round.  IRC will also serve as a place for players to chat while
waiting for moves to be processed.  Players will email their move(s) to
the referee (that's me) -- hopefully within a few minutes, and I will feed
them to my program, and I will email the results to everyone.
(Alternatively, I could post the current results on the web -- (What's the
UNIX permission code for the directory and file to make it viewable?) --
feedback on this would be welcome.

If everything runs smoothly, and players don't ponder over their moves for
forever and a day, I estimate a pace of about 6-10 minutes per round,
barring any email holdups.  Realizing a lot of people are busy this time
of year, we don't have to play an entire game (hey, it's unofficial) but I
would like to test the IRC/email hybrid game-playing.

If you'd like to be involved, tell me and I'll try to have it running by a
time everyone can play.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #78
******************************