Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #68
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest       Wednesday, April 30 1997       Volume 02 : Number 068

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 20:21:38 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Name Change 

>I, xebra bod, am changing my Ackanomic name back to "breadbox". Will
>the Registrar please ack this at eir earliest convenience.
>
>xebra bod
>happy to be barred no longer

I ack this.

snowgod
whjat if I decide not to?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:12:15 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> 
> The ZZimsy undead thing reduced your possessions to those the Undead-Harfer
> listed on his page (still available as the "old undead-harfer's page" link
> from the main acka web page) within some time limit, and your otzma cards
> were not listed, which is really bad considering the fact that I listed
> them in the hall of elders, and habeous corpus's otzma cards were saved. :-(
> In fact, all your possessions listed in the hall of elders were saved,
> except the 2 go fish cards.

I disagree.  TThe Zzimsy rule said that any that any informaiton that
could be retrievd about Zzimsy Undead possessions would be saved, and
those possession would remain Haunted by the Undead. The two Go Fish Cards
Guy Fawkes is refering to are listed on my web page as belonging to Guy
Fawkes(and were since before he left the game) , so the information was
publicaly retrievable and the Cards were never destroyed by the Zzimsy
rule.

Niccolo Flychuck
RuneMaker.

> 
> :-p  (a raspberry to the old undead-harfer, Jammer, who joined his minions
>     of undead some time back)
> 
> /dev/joe
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:20:59 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1970

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> > The game state cannot be changed on the web page, and all publically
> > knowable changes to the GS *can* be tracked via e-mail-only access,
> > (although a newbie currently needs web access to get the *initial* GS).
> 
> The initial GS could be mailed on request if there e has e-mail-only 
> access. 
> 
> 
> > That is the real issue here, do we want to allow the GS to be changed
> > on fora not accessable to everyone?  
> 
> The question is the current number of player too big or is there 
> still room of newbie's. Moving from an email Game to a IRC Game means 
> that we lose players. The total time that goes in to Ackanomic will 
> go up.
> 
> Moving to IRC also means that the players outside of USA are excluded 
> from Ackanomic.

Does it?  :)
> 
> In the worse case 50 % of the active players would drop out. 
> 
> 
> I vote No for every expansition towards IRC. 

Nobody is discussing moving Acka into IRC, just provide an additional
option for subgames, which are optional, and could still take place by
email as well. Not all players play subgames, would you repeal them just
for that?  There are many areas of Acka that not all players deal with,
perhaps we should repeal those too, because their discussion effectively
excludes some players?

Niccolo Flychuck

 > 
> 
> CarsesraC
> V   
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:28:30 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1970

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> 
> I think that this problem reflects a problem with Games and Contests as a
> whole.  In amny ways, the games, Party Chess in particular, are coming to
> have less and less to do with Ackanomic.  The Party Chess proposals
> routinely get as many or more present votes as they do anything else, and
> a lot of the other game proposals get similar, if not quite as drastic,
> voting results.  Thus, it's pretty obvious that a lot of us are not
> very involved in these games.  By moving into IRC, these games are only
> going to become more exclusionary, isolated, and less a part of Ackanomic.
> I'd like to at least keep the tenuous connections that currently exist.

I might have been inclined to agree with the PartyChess comments had it
not for the poll questions we ask new players. 3-4 players (perhaps more)
joined Ackanomic partially _because_ of Party Chess (where is the archive
of poll questions anyway?)

> Finally, I just don't see the need for this change.  
Why don't you go through the ruleset and tell me how many rules you do see
the _need_ for?
This is not about need. Nomic is not about need. 

> Ackanomic IRC.  As far as actualy getting points, or money, or whatnot,
> for these games, well, I don't think that would be fair to the people who
> can't use, or just don't want to use, IRC to play.

Some people can't play subgames now because they don't have the time, or
they just don't want to subscribe to acka-games.  By analogy we should
just stop playing subgames at all.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:29:44 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1968

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Bascule wrote:

> > Proposal 1968
> > Ad Hoc Towers
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> > 
> > 
> > A proposal that has the following effects:
> 
> What effects does this proposal have? I can't quite see it.
> 
> Bascule
> 

The effect is giving the authority to approve Towers to an Ad Hoc
Committee instead of to the Senate. It is a very suitable action for an Ad
Hoc Committee.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 22:45:25 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: What Pheobe Didn't Say 

Pheobe came to me last night in a dream and she said this to me:

"Hey, you!  I know you didn't find my matchbox, and I know if you did you
wouldn't report my wisdom, but I have something important to tell you so
I'm making an exception to the rule.

"This group of 'Players' has gotten pretty worrisome lately.  All of the
sudden they went and got themselves convinced they built a stable system,
and none of them want to upset the status quo.  I tell you, snowgod, if it
weren't for the Sinister Aliens, there'd never be a good crises around here.

"snowgod, you know and I know that Ackanomic has never been about building
a stable system.  When did we become afraid to change the rules, snowgod?
When did we become afraid to tie our shoes?

"There is something terribly wrong here, snowgod.  Ackanomic is suffering
from an illness much worse than any crash, much scarier than any crises. If
this isn't cured, Ackanomic will whither away and die.  We were fresh once.
Anyone could plkay and the important stuff wasn't left to the rule lawyers!
snowgod, if you had to it, could you make a simple amendement to the voting
procedures?  I didn't think so... At least no without hours of research.

"I implore you, no I demand of you: Go forth, snowgod, and gather players
that feel the same way you do.  Make the game fun for the little guy again.
Do something dangerous.  Snowgod, you must touch the puppet head.

And with that she left me.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:41:20 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Internomic: Two Proposals 

Ackanomians,

There are two new internomic proposals.  P333 is proposed by Rishonomic.
P334 is proposed by Niccolo Flychuck on behalf of Ackanomic. The internomic
voting period on these proposals ends in two weeks, or when all members
have voted.

I hereby initiate a senate vote on these.  Furthermore, I urge the senate,
if it is able to do so, to vote YES on both proposals.

snowgod
Ambassador

P333:

Ammend R215 in the following way:
Replace the string "The voting members of this Nomic are: Ackanomic,"
With string "The voting members of this Nomic are: Rishonomic, Ackanomic,"

- -------

P334:

Create a new rule entitled "The naming of names"

I.
A native Internomic name is a string  with a maximum length of 32 ASCII
characters, except for the colon character (:), which may not be used in
native Internomic name.
Only entities created within the scope of Internomic, that is, as part of
Internomic play, or by a rule in the Internomic ruleset have native
Internomic  names.

II.
Every entity in every member nomic which has a name also has an
Internomic name. The Internomic name of such entities is made up of three
strings concatenated into a single string in the following order:
 The first string - the name of the member nomic in which the entity first
 appeared.

The second string - the colon characer, i.e. :

The third string - the name of the entity within the member nomic in which
it first appeared

This rule specifically does not apply to player names, either real names
or names used in the context of nomic.

III.
The rules may define legal aliases which can be used instead of an
Internomic name. A legal alias is a native Internomic name.

- ---------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:28:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bond Dividends

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> By postponing his win until after noon today, Malenkai allowed us to have
> real bond dividends.
> 
> Here are my calculations (note, IdiotBoy found a bug in my bondharf program;
> it crashed when he didn't have any bonds at all. :-o )

Which is exactly why I got rid of all my bonds.  I love testing extrema!

IB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 08:01:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1968

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Uri Bruck wrote:

> The effect is giving the authority to approve Towers to an Ad Hoc
> Committee instead of to the Senate. It is a very suitable action for an Ad
> Hoc Committee.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

And adds yet another step in the permissions needed to build a Tower 
(first the committee must be selected, and THEN they can decide on the 
matter) -- heh, heh, never thought Acka zoning would strive to mirror RL.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:00:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> > The ZZimsy undead thing reduced your possessions to those the Undead-Harfer
> > listed on his page [...]
> 
> I disagree.  TThe Zzimsy rule said that any that any informaiton that
> could be retrievd about Zzimsy Undead possessions would be saved, and
> those possession would remain Haunted by the Undead.

Here is the temporary text in rule 426, 'Undead-Harfer' (see proposal 1694).
I don't see where it says anything about any publicly knowable entity
sticking around.  All entities haunted by undead not on the Undead-Harfer's
list, and all entities not on the list but haunted by undead on the list
were made ZZimsy, and all ZZimsy entities were destroyed.

/dev/joe

  $$
  The text in this rule enclosed in double dollar signs, inclusive, is
  known as 'This Section'.
  
  Within a fortnight of the creation of this rule, the Undead-Harfer or
  acting Undead-Harfer shall produce a list which is a good faith attempt
  at an accurate list as specified in section a) above.  If no list
  is published within the time limit, the null list is assumed to have
  been published upon the expiration of the time limit.
  
  [All officers shall make a good faith attempt to help the Undead-Harfer
  compile such a list.  I have some of it, and I know of one player who
  stated willingness to do the Undead-Harfer job].
  
  Upon the contents of such a list being publically knowable, the following
  will occur in the order specified:
  
  1) All Undead not on the list shall be known as 'Lost Souls'.  No
  other entities shall be known as 'Lost Souls'; any such attribute is
  removed from any such entities.
  
  2) All Lost Souls shall stop haunting all A$s they are haunting.  Any
  other A$s being haunted, but not accounted for on the list, shall no
  longer be being haunted as well.
  
  3) All entities, including houses and land, being haunted by Lost
  Souls shall have the attribute of 'ZZimsy'.  No other entities, except
  as designated by this rule, shall have the attribute of ZZimsy.
  
  4) All entities which are not on the list, but are being
  haunted by Undead on the list, are given the attribute of ZZimsy as well.
  
  5) All ZZimsy entites are destroyed.  This clause has precedence over all
  rules.
  
  6) All Lost Souls are destroyed.  This clause has precedence over all
  rules.
  
  7) This rule is amended to delete This Section.
  $$

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:01:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

This is what I understand the current semi-consensus on the Aliens voting
crisis to be:

Since the Aliens rule extends any time periods governed by the abducted
rule, the voting periods for all pre-abduction proposals will end upon the
return of Rule 106.  However, during that time, no players can vote
(although Tammany can), and so many of these proposals will likely end in
lack of quorum, forcing all but a few players onto non-voting status for
the minimum two days. (bugger, ain't it?)

Unless there are no serious objections, I urge the president to declare a
Holiday (3 days?) beginning at the instant Rule 106 is returned.  (This
can be calculated to be exactly seven days after the timestamp on
Malenkai's report of the abduction.)  This would result in a transition
from a state where the voting periods are suspended and no one can vote to
one where the voting periods are suspended, but the players can vote.

Granted, there is the matter of the timing issue -- exactly what order do
the return of the rule, the beginning of the holiday, and the end of the
voting periods take place in.  All should take place at the exact same
instant in time, with several possible results, and the rules do not cover
this area adequately enough to determine which one should be preferred.
Given this ambiguity, I think it is in the spirit of the game to prefer an
order which allows the players to vote.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:12:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > > The ZZimsy undead thing reduced your possessions to those the Undead-Harfer
> > > listed on his page [...]

Would anybody terribly object to a proposal that restored these Cards to
me?  Since it is publically knowable that I had them and all...

Guy Fawkes
- --
Bless the man who keeps these stones,
And Cursed he who moves my bones.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:16:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> Would anybody terribly object to a proposal that restored these Cards to
> me?  Since it is publically knowable that I had them and all...
> 
> Guy Fawkes
> --
> Bless the man who keeps these stones,
> And Cursed he who moves my bones.
> 

I'd vote for it.. if I could vote!

IB
bwg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:22:16 +0000
From: "Bascule" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato + Aliens

> This is what I understand the current semi-consensus on the Aliens voting
> crisis to be:
> 
> Since the Aliens rule extends any time periods governed by the abducted
> rule, the voting periods for all pre-abduction proposals will end upon the
> return of Rule 106. 

I don't agree with this; all business to do with voting is on-hold at 
the moment I believe. I think the voting period will not end at the 
return of rule 106; it will start to count down again at that time. 
So it's a bit like having a 1 week voting holiday.

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:41:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> > > > The ZZimsy undead thing reduced your possessions to those the
> > > > Undead-Harfer listed on his page [...]
> 
> Would anybody terribly object to a proposal that restored these Cards to
> me?  Since it is publically knowable that I had them and all...

I would not object, if you also made an attempt to restore other publicly
knowable entities that were haunted by the still-extant undead.  For
instance, I realized while doing this that all the undeads' houses and
land were destroyed, since they were not on the Undead-Harfer's list,
but I only removed from the map those that were haunted by the undead
that were destroyed.

I will help with this effort and I encourage other players to help as well.  

The ZZimsy destruction took place on Feb 20; stuff which became haunted
since then is not ZZimsy.

Land and buildings that need to be restored (each building is a small
building and has 1 kaa of land accompanying it) [basically Guy Fawkes's
house plus all the haunted land and buildings on the map, except the
more recent undead -- Ludwig, Clairence, 23 Skidoo, Strider, Lestrade,
Jammer, Swann, Narf]:

Xanadu [with 145m tower "Monument to Futility"] (owned by Guy Fawkes)
AirHead's house (haunted by undead AirHead)
Aubergine Hall (haunted by undead Brinjal)
fon's house (haunted by undead fon)
G. Peefalt's house (haunted by undead G. Peefalt)
Habeous Corpus's house (haunted by undead Habeous Corpus)
Bibliophilia (haunted by undead Pascal)
this is not a name's house (haunted by undead this is not a name)
Uncle Sam's house (haunted by undead Uncle Sam)
Wayne's house (haunted by undead Wayne)

The above list is also a complete list of the players whose undead
survived the ZZimsy destruction.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:02:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chorg determination

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> I would not object, if you also made an attempt to restore other publicly
> knowable entities that were haunted by the still-extant undead.  For
> instance, I realized while doing this that all the undeads' houses and
> land were destroyed, since they were not on the Undead-Harfer's list,
> but I only removed from the map those that were haunted by the undead
> that were destroyed.

Add to the list of entities to restore:
Wayne and tinan's BCB's
tinan's Blue Cross (the only BC to be awarded twice posthumously?)

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:41:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Late Pseudo Duel results

Whoops, I just realized that I forgot to post the voting results for the
Pseudo-Duel between Habeous Corpus and Robert Sevin.  It wasn't being
played according to the rules so what harm is another violation or two? :-)

Robert Sevin: winner with 7 votes
- ------------
  Bascule
  Vynd
  Guy Fawkes
  snowgod
  ThinMan
  mr cwm
  /dev/joe

Habeous Corpus: 2 votes
- --------------
  IdiotBoy
  Mohammed

More than one voter commented that neither of the "limericks" follows the
proper meter.  The limericks for Duel #1 were close to the right meter,
but especially since my Treasure 114 limerick, which was self-referential
in its over-lengthiness, the limerick lines have gotten longer and longer
(except in my duel vs. Malenkai, where we both held pretty close to the
right meter, but Malenkai's didn't rhyme all that well).

The limericks for this duel were:

Robert Sevin's Limerick:
  H.C. once detestably designed,
  To slander harf's image -- He opined:
  "Harf is far from the best,"
  (And it was not a jest),
  The claim was opprobrious and unkind.

Observer Habeous Corpus's Limerick:
  I really like the game Ackanomic      
  Whose Ruleset,  like its Kodex,  is truly tomic,
  Filled with sub-games galore
  And Entities I adore.
  But I kinda miss the buddy who was Gnomic.

/dev/joe
No longer the Gamesmaster

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:41:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Observation.

There are plenty of rules I would call "interesting", but only one that I
would call Interesting.

IB
bwg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation.

> There are plenty of rules I would call "interesting", but only one
> that I would call Interesting.

That would have to be rule 509, right?

1) It is all about Interest.
2) You wrote it.
3) Your name appears in it.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:04:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Observation.

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> That would have to be rule 509, right?
> 
> 1) It is all about Interest.
> 2) You wrote it.
> 3) Your name appears in it.
> 
> breadbox
> 

I'm not telling. ;)

IB

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:40:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Traveling

I'm going on a trip around Acka Land.

Strange, it seems that there are a lot fewer buildings here than I remember
there being.  I could swear there was a really enormous tower about 5 blocks
south of my house, but as I look where I thought it was I see only an empty
lot with a small tent.

Next I stop at the Senate to check on the voting on the internomic proposals.
One senator has not reported in yet.

I pass by Cow Town, but I decide not to enter, even though the cow's a
friend to me.

On the way back to my own house, I pass through the downtown district.

I stop at the Library to read a few poems from the Ackanomicon, but some
of the ones I was looking for aren't there.

On my way out I see the Gaol.  Why do we use the outdated spelling 'Gaol',
when the rest of the world spells the word 'Jail'?  I guess somebody
thought it was harfy or something.

I then stop to visit the Museum, where the wing that was renamed the
/dev/joe wing earlier this month has recently been renamed in honor of
Malenkai, who is fated to soon become the first person to play Ackanomic
from within the continent of Africa.

Finally, I return to my home.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:46:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Postmasterness

Red Barn ([email-masked])'s mail is bouncing due to a full mail quota.
It has actually been bouncing for several days, but I've been lazy. :-)
It was not bouncing when Malenkai sent the "remove from game" message,
but it started about the time Malenkai announced that he failed to respond
to the r.f.g. message.

In any case, I'm moving him to the digest lists.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:59:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: I'm feeling observant

If I have to do a second thing,  I think I'd skip the bit right before '76
and just keep on going.

IB
this assumes time is malleable

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:04:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: I'm feeling observant

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Matt Miller wrote:

> If I have to do a second thing,  I think I'd skip the bit right before '76
> and just keep on going.
> 
> IB
> this assumes time is malleable
> 
> 
This would probably make more sense from my reference in time.  So I guess
I should actually skip the bit right after '75, instead.

IB
e=mc^2

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:04:37 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Phoebe (mr cwm)

Phoebe's matchbox has been found by mr cwm.

Malenkai
Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:40:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Official Dictionary change

The first dictionary which comprises part of Ackanomic's official
dictionary has moved -- specifically, the site which has this list changed
to gzip compression instead of Unix compress -- probably because the file
size is smaller and gzip is the current standard for such things.

The new URL for this dictionary is:

ftp://sable.ox.ac.uk/pub/wordlists/dictionaries/Unabr.dict.gz

/dev/joe

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #68
******************************