Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #22
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Sunday, March 23 1997        Volume 02 : Number 022

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 00:36:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : My dangling house

> It appears that my house is dangling.
> 
> Fortunately I have wings. Unfortunately, there is only of me. Are there
> two valiant winged players out there who would help me reattach my house?

I join Niccolo Flychuck in order to reattach his house.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:46:41 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : My dangling house

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > It appears that my house is dangling.
> > 
> > Fortunately I have wings. Unfortunately, there is only of me. Are there
> > two valiant winged players out there who would help me reattach my house?
> 
> I join Niccolo Flychuck in order to reattach his house.
> 
> breadbox
> 
> 
Now that there are three of us we each take the house and bring safely to
the surface. We reattach it. My house, whatever it's called nowadays is
safe once more. As we all need our rest I invite Narf and breadbox for tea
(although they may frink whatever they like).

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:31:07 -0500
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RFC: IRC and other things 

On 3.19.97, You can call me All arose from his slumber in You can call me
Al's House, and intoned (in a hollow voice) the following words:

Don't worry, I won't use anymore silly introductions like that. :v) Anyway,
I'm working on a proposal that would create an Auditorium, where public
performances would take place for groups and/or individuals. I'm mulling
over the rules now, as to how to reward the people who perform (I find it
pointless to create this as another diversion - if the diversions ever
outnumber the REAL rewards in the game, then the point will have been lost
in the shuffle). Anyway, I'm wondering why the game and the IRC network have
no official connection. If game actions can take place there (games and the
like), then I would love to include that as a staging area for these
"performances". Of course, this means I need to come up with rules to govern
"bands" and the like, and whether the great Tuba and Trombone et al. should
be included, and exactly how to reward a "concert". But I'll give a basic
rundown here, in general terms, and I invite comment. 8)

There exist entities such as bands. [Insert various technical facts about
bands here. Any suggestions?] Each band has a name, which can be up to xx
ASCII characters long. A band consists of at least one active player and may
contain up to a dozen. They don't need to rehearse, though it's recommended
for a quality performance, etc.

There exists a Common Location called the Auditorium [is Ackatorium too
cheesy?]. The Auditorium consists of a number of sections (the wings, the
audience, the Stage, etc.). There is an Officer (I'll need help with this
section) in charge of Booking acts, paying out fees, etc. This Officer (The
Conductor!!) has the right to be called Maestro, if e exercises that right
in a public communicade...etc. (You can see how silly this could
get...how...harfy this could get...!) 

Oh blast...I'm unable to finish this train of thought and I want to get this
off my hands...anyone have any suggestions?

You really CAN call me Al
                                     __________
                                    /          \
                                   /            \
                                  |   o     o    |
                                  |    |   |     |
                             ----------|   |----------
                             -----------\_/-----------
                           [email-masked]
                             -------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:59:46 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC Reorg IV

RFC - Reorg IV

This has 2 parts.  The first moves the winning conditions into the
end of cycle section (600s).  I specifically kept this out of previous
reorgs since it seemed possibly more undesirable than the others.

The second moves all the organizational stuff into the empty block of
the 1000 series.  Even though they are, for the most part, together now,
they are butted up against the crime.  This also internally organizes
them a bit better, IMO.  Since some of the rules are new,
I'm not sure there is an accociation of them with the mid 700s anyway;
I still associate the 700s with the crime stuff.

RFC?

Malenkai
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Renumber R 219, "Winning by Paradox", to 601.
Renumber R 220, "Winning by POints", to 603.
Renumber R 221, "Winning is Inherently Amusing (or Winning by Palindrome), to 
605.
Renumber R 222, "Winning by Finding the Crystal Chalice", to 607.
Renumber R 222.1, "Vault Divination", to 607.1.
Renumber R 235, "Chartreuse Goose", to 620.

[I realise some proposals exist to tweak these numbers -- that will
be check if I go further with this]

Renumber R 720, "Institutions", to 1001.
Renumber R 721, "Organizations", to 1003.
Renumber R 722, "Organizational Action", to 1005.
Renumber R 1764, "Organizational Powers", to 1007.
Renumber R 723, "Big Tents and Rewarding Party Unity", to 1009.
Renumber R 730, "Trade Licenses", to 1011.
Renumber R 733, "Secret Laboratories", to 1013.
Renumber R 726, "Party Hall", to 1040.
Renumber R 727, "Party Hall Party", to 1042.
Renumber R 728, "Swingpoints", to 1044.
Renumber R 729, "Another Truly Deplorable Pun", to 1046.
Renumber R 724, "Organized Crime", to 1060.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:00:32 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: RE: IRC and other things

You can call me AL wrote:

- -----Original Message-----
From:	[email-masked] [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Saturday, March 22, 1997 7:31 AM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	RFC: IRC and other things

On 3.19.97, You can call me All arose from his slumber in You can call me
Al's House, and intoned (in a hollow voice) the following words:

Don't worry, I won't use anymore silly introductions like that. :v) Anyway,
I'm working on a proposal that would create an Auditorium, where public
performances would take place for groups and/or individuals. I'm mulling
over the rules now, as to how to reward the people who perform (I find it
pointless to create this as another diversion - if the diversions ever
outnumber the REAL rewards in the game, then the point will have been lost
in the shuffle). Anyway, I'm wondering why the game and the IRC network have
no official connection. If game actions can take place there (games and the
like), then I would love to include that as a staging area for these
"performances". Of course, this means I need to come up with rules to govern
"bands" and the like, and whether the great Tuba and Trombone et al. should
be included, and exactly how to reward a "concert". But I'll give a basic
rundown here, in general terms, and I invite comment. 8)

There exist entities such as bands. [Insert various technical facts about
bands here. Any suggestions?] Each band has a name, which can be up to xx
ASCII characters long. A band consists of at least one active player and may
contain up to a dozen. They don't need to rehearse, though it's recommended
for a quality performance, etc.

There exists a Common Location called the Auditorium [is Ackatorium too
cheesy?]. The Auditorium consists of a number of sections (the wings, the
audience, the Stage, etc.). There is an Officer (I'll need help with this
section) in charge of Booking acts, paying out fees, etc. This Officer (The
Conductor!!) has the right to be called Maestro, if e exercises that right
in a public communicade...etc. (You can see how silly this could
get...how...harfy this could get...!) 

Oh blast...I'm unable to finish this train of thought and I want to get this
off my hands...anyone have any suggestions?

I have already created a place called the BandShell, it's on the map, with
a description very similar to that.  Also, just before Strider's inauguration
we ere putting together a band. but members dropped out and I got
busy in RL.  

Jammer
who is still on vacation but who happened to 
notice the post

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:45:01 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 361 (Vynd)

Vynd has been chosen.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 361
  Subject: Public Action
Initiator: breadbox
    Judge: Vynd (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:46h EST)
Judgement:

Statement:

An attempt to perform a public action announced on the acka-discuss
mailing list succeeds.

breadbox's Reasoning:

Rule 260, "Public Actions", states:

  The rules may specify that certain possible courses of play are public
  actions. Any active player may attempt any public action available to
  him or her simply by sending a public message specifying the action to
  be taken. However, if any information that is necessary to specify the
  action fully and unambiguously is left out of that message, then the
  attempt fails. [An attempt may also fail for other reasons.]

The only mention of acka-discuss in the postal code is:

  acka-research@wilma and acka-discuss@wilma may only be used for trades
  and gifts of entities, but it is preferred to perform these on
  acka-finance. acka-research-digest@wilma and acka-discuss-digest@wilma
  are the digest versions of these lists and are subject to the same
  restrictions.

So does an announcement of a public action on acka-discuss actually
occur, or is it just so much talk?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:47:29 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 362 (IdiotBoy)

IdiotBoy has been chosen.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 362
  Subject: Treasure Maps
Initiator: Red Barn
    Judge: IdiotBoy (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:49h EST)
Judgement:

Statement:

  If a treasure map states that a player shall find its treasure only by
fullfilling certain conditions and, after finding the treasure, adhering to
certain other conditions, then if e fulfills the initial conditions, is
considered to have found the treasure, and subsequently breaks the
conditions then applicable, e has not found the treasure.

Red Barn's Reasoning:

  Rule 1217 states "The player must write a treasure map that describes, at
a minimum, the conditions necessary for a player to find the treasure".  It
does not state that these conditions need apply only before the treasure
has been found, therefore they do not.
  [This is my attempt at using existing rules to create a contract-like
system, whereby a player must do certain things or they lose the treasure.
If this doesn't work, I'll have to go through proposals and nobody will see
what I have in mind for a couple of weeks. :) - the treasure map system is
actually quite powerful, though it takes some effort to word this sort of
thing comprehensibly.]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:57:21 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Observer

[email-masked], better known as Elder Habeous Corpus, asked me to sign
him up as an observer.  He wasn't sure how long he would be on-line,
and whether or not he could come back as a player.

I'm not sure what lists an observer gets registered on, but I would ask
the Registrar and/or Postmaster to sign him up to all the lists, except
perhaps acka-chess, as that was the content he was presumably getting
as a player.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:10:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 356 Appeal Verdict

> The Justices have failed to penalize the original judge, however, and
> by rule, should do so, for 1-10 points.
	1 point sounds good to me.  (I'm sending this publicly to save 
time but I have the sneaking suspicion it'll be the opposite.)

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:26:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 362 (IdiotBoy)

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> IdiotBoy has been chosen.
> 
> Clerk of the Courts
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 362
>   Subject: Treasure Maps
> Initiator: Red Barn
>     Judge: IdiotBoy (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:49h EST)
> Judgement:
> 

I accept this.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:35:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: postmasterness

I am exercising my privilege as Postmaster to move Techno 
([email-masked]) to the digest versions of all lists he is
subscribed to which have digest versions.  His mail just started
bouncing today, because the network to solgate.com has been
unreachable for 5 days.  (Sigh, that means 5 days until the
bouncemail box stops getting bounces of his individual messages,
unless the network opens up first.)

/dev/joe
Postmaster

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:12:59 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure Hunting 

At 3:29 PM -0900 3/21/97, Malenkai wrote:
>> In hopes of saving my Gadgets, I am creating a treasure consisting of the
>> Silver Key. I am burying this treasure
>> with a map that says "The silver key will be found by the first players wit
>> two or more entities who wants to
>> possess, and wants to love it, and hug it, and call it george."
>
>I possess 2 or more entities.  I want to possess, love, hug, and call
>the Silver Key george.  I really truly do.
>
>Malenkai

Malenkai has found the Silver Key.  The complete map to the treasure read
"The silver key will be found by the first player with two or more entities
[should have said gadgets, bu oh well] who wants to possess it, and wants
to love it, hug it, and call it george.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:18:36 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: New Trinket

I am creating 50 news trinkets, named PFennig 0-49 (respectively), acka
with a value of A$2.  Each PFennig loos just like a regular PFbond.  As a
matter of fact, they would be impossible to tell from the originals, were
it not for the fact that they don't pay dividents.

I am giving PFenning 0-49 to IdiotBoy, to help with him out in his bond
trading business.

snowgod

snowgod -100, trinket creation
snowgod +PFennig 0-49

snowgod -PFenning 0-49
IdiotBoy +PFennig 0-49

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:35:01 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Criminal 

I commited a crime sometime within the last day.  It was a rather subbtle
and harfy crime, but I was hoping someone would catch it.

If anyone finds it, please of please call a CFCJ against me..  Please?

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 11:38:16 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: New Observer 

Just to make it Official, we have a new observer in Ackanomic.  His name is
Ed Graham (sp?), and his (former) ackanomic name is Habeous Corpus.  His
email address is [email-masked]		Welcome Back Habeous!!!!

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 16:56:21 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 362 Verdict

CFJ 362 has been judged FALSE.

Clerk of the Courts
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 362
  Subject: Treasure Maps
Initiator: Red Barn
    Judge: IdiotBoy (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:49h EST)
Judgement: FALSE

Statement:

  If a treasure map states that a player shall find its treasure only by
fullfilling certain conditions and, after finding the treasure, adhering to
certain other conditions, then if e fulfills the initial conditions, is
considered to have found the treasure, and subsequently breaks the
conditions then applicable, e has not found the treasure.

Initiator's Comments:

  Rule 1217 states "The player must write a treasure map that describes, at
a minimum, the conditions necessary for a player to find the treasure".  It
does not state that these conditions need apply only before the treasure
has been found, therefore they do not.
  [This is my attempt at using existing rules to create a contract-like
system, whereby a player must do certain things or they lose the treasure.
If this doesn't work, I'll have to go through proposals and nobody will see
what I have in mind for a couple of weeks. :) - the treasure map system is
actually quite powerful, though it takes some effort to word this sort of
thing comprehensibly.]

Judge's Comments:

>From Rule 1217, Paragraph 5:

==
Upon a player (who is not a map custodian with respect to the map in
question) achieving the conditions for finding buried Treasure as specified
by a Treasure Map, it is a duty of the map writer or a map custodian (if any
exist) to make this fact, and the map, public (once they become aware of the
condition being achieved, and final act that lead to the condition being
achieved is publically knowable). This action destroys the map, and the
player who achieved the conditions receives the Treasure, and thus becomes
the owner of its constituent entities (which are no longer considered
"Treasure").
==

This section makes it clear that once the conditions of the Treasure Map
have been fulfilled, the Map is revealed.  Once this occurs, the Map is
detroyed and the entities which once made up the Treasure become the
possessions of the "finder".

The Map holds no sway over any entities once it's "finding" conditions have
been fulfilled.  In fact, the Map is destroyed.

The Treasure is no longer Treasure, but merely entities which are subject
only to such rules as apply to any other entities of their type.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 01:12:17 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Niccolo Flychuck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Observer

Welcome back HC.

Niccolo Flychcuk

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Phil Ackley wrote:

> Just to make it Official, we have a new observer in Ackanomic.  His name is
> Ed Graham (sp?), and his (former) ackanomic name is Habeous Corpus.  His
> email address is [email-masked]		Welcome Back Habeous!!!!
> 
> snowgod
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 17:34:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 361 (Vynd)

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> Vynd has been chosen.
> 
> Clerk of the Courts
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 361
>   Subject: Public Action
> Initiator: breadbox
>     Judge: Vynd (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:46h EST)
> Judgement:
> 
> Statement:
> 
> An attempt to perform a public action announced on the acka-discuss
> mailing list succeeds.
> 
> breadbox's Reasoning:
> 
> Rule 260, "Public Actions", states:
> 
>   The rules may specify that certain possible courses of play are public
>   actions. Any active player may attempt any public action available to
>   him or her simply by sending a public message specifying the action to
>   be taken. However, if any information that is necessary to specify the
>   action fully and unambiguously is left out of that message, then the
>   attempt fails. [An attempt may also fail for other reasons.]
> 
> The only mention of acka-discuss in the postal code is:
> 
>   acka-research@wilma and acka-discuss@wilma may only be used for trades
>   and gifts of entities, but it is preferred to perform these on
>   acka-finance. acka-research-digest@wilma and acka-discuss-digest@wilma
>   are the digest versions of these lists and are subject to the same
>   restrictions.
> 
> So does an announcement of a public action on acka-discuss actually
> occur, or is it just so much talk?
> 

I accept, err ack, this.

                                 - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:33:02 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: NAP Swinger

This is the NAP swinger nomination.  If you want to volunteer for
this office, e-mail me.  The nomination ends in 3 days.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 14:38:01 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Travelling 

I am leaving the Mueseum and going to Mohammed's Winter Mosque.  Once
there, I will await a public gathering so that I can frink whatever I like.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 19:10:21 -0500
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bot Results: ARGH. 

  Of my identical proposals to transfer A$3,000 to me, I am retracting all
but #1825 (if #1825 exists).

- -Red Barn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:02:38 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: George

I am burying george (the Silver Key), as a Treasure.  The map,
which is very simple, will be revealed later.

There is a CFJ that may invalidate this entire thread, hence the
delay in the map.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:44:57 -0500
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:Acka: CFJ 362 Verdict 

At 4:56 PM on 3/22/97, Malenkai wrote:

> CFJ 362 has been judged FALSE.
>
> Clerk of the Courts
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 362
>   Subject: Treasure Maps
> Initiator: Red Barn
>     Judge: IdiotBoy (selected Mar 22, 1997, 12:49h EST)
> Judgement: FALSE

  I'm calling for an appeal on this.  See my notes below as to why I think
this judgement is incorrect.

> Statement:
>
>   If a treasure map states that a player shall find its treasure only by
> fullfilling certain conditions and, after finding the treasure, adhering to
> certain other conditions, then if e fulfills the initial conditions, is
> considered to have found the treasure, and subsequently breaks the
> conditions then applicable, e has not found the treasure.

[... snippity, snippity, snippity ...]

> >From Rule 1217, Paragraph 5:
>
> ==
> Upon a player (who is not a map custodian with respect to the map in
> question) achieving the conditions for finding buried Treasure as specified
> by a Treasure Map, it is a duty of the map writer or a map custodian (if any
> exist) to make this fact, and the map, public (once they become aware of the
> condition being achieved, and final act that lead to the condition being
> achieved is publically knowable). This action destroys the map, and the
> player who achieved the conditions receives the Treasure, and thus becomes
> the owner of its constituent entities (which are no longer considered
> "Treasure").
> ==
>
> This section makes it clear that once the conditions of the Treasure Map
> have been fulfilled, the Map is revealed.  Once this occurs, the Map is
> detroyed and the entities which once made up the Treasure become the
> possessions of the "finder".
>
> The Map holds no sway over any entities once it's "finding" conditions have
> been fulfilled.  In fact, the Map is destroyed.
>
> The Treasure is no longer Treasure, but merely entities which are subject
> only to such rules as apply to any other entities of their type.

  However, there's nothing keeping the map from having requirements about
the future.  The map no longer exists once the treasure has been found, but
if the Map could have "looked ahead", the treasure wouldn't have been found
in the first place - but we, not having similar foresight, just didn't
realize it yet :).  I don't see that the conditions need to be only
regarding the present and the past - in fact, the treasure hunt rule
specifically states:

>>>>>
<<<<<

  While that doesn't mean that the conditions can regard the future, there
is, I believe, precedent for the game state being undetermined in certain
respects.  Thus a verdict of TRUE is mandated.

- -Red Barn

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #22
******************************