Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #440
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Monday, January 6 1997        Volume 01 : Number 440

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:50:02 -0800
From: Stephen McCulley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka:NAP Swinger

Salutations!
	
		IFF nominations are still open, I wish to volunteer for the office of
NAP Swinger.

			Regards,
				Jason

(who wants to play Party Chess)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 16:52:01 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:NAP Swinger

Stephen McCulley wrote:
> 
> Salutations!
> 
>                 IFF nominations are still open, I wish to volunteer for
> the office of NAP Swinger.

The NAP Swinger office has been filled.

Malenkai
Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:33:51 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1576 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
10 YES votes - 2 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

Proposal 1576 - Thu 19 Dec 12:46 CST 1996
Modest Palindromes
Malenkai (Randy Hall)

Malenkai gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
ThinMan                      Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Vulcan Unity Vote
breadbox
AirHead                      Harf
Lestrade
Mohammed
Vulcan Unity Vote
Malenkai                     Harf

NO Votes:
- --------
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Habeous Corpus

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Swann

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------
     This is a Modest proposal.

     [gist: Allows someone to achieve the title of Sage O' Doe Gas for
     a palindromic rule without the voters needing to worry about
     handing out a win (the old way), while preserving the new way.

     Also fixes a minor loophole, and clears up the ambiguity (at least
     in my mind) of which cycle the score changes are applied in if
     someone wins.]

     --------------------------------------------------------------------

     Amend the Rule created by Proposal 798 [either "Palindromes are
     Inheritly Amusing" or "Winning by Palindrome"], as follows:

     I. Replace the sentence which reads:

     "
     Upon each creation of a Rule fulfilling all three of the following
     conditions:
     "

     with

     "
     Upon each creation, via Proposal, of a Rule fulfilling all three
     of the following conditions:
     "

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------

     II. Replace the text in the rule which reads:

     "
     (1) win the current cycle of the game

     (2) receive the honorific title "Sage o' Doe Gas" to hold until
     such time as another Player wins a cycle of the game under this
     Rule.
     "

     with:

     "
     (1) win the current Cycle of the Game, if the Proposal which
     created the rule was non-Modest. This win, if it occurs, shall
     occur immediately after the score changes as a result of the
     Proposal being accepted are applied.

     (2) receive the honorific title "Sage o' Doe Gas" to hold until
     such time as another Player achieves that title under this Rule.
     "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:37:09 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1577 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
8 YES votes - 1 NO votes - 4 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

Proposal 1577 - Thu 19 Dec 12:47 CST 1996
Players
Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

Guy Fawkes gains 10 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
ThinMan                      Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
AirHead                      Harf
Lestrade
Mohammed
Malenkai                     Harf
snowgod                      (None Yet)

NO Votes:
- --------
Habeous Corpus

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Swann
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
breadbox

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

     Create a new rule with text as follows:
     {{
     Perform the following actions, in the order they appear.

     ----

     I. [Registered players]
     Renumber Rule 218 "Registered Players" to 250.

     II. [Player names]

     Amend Rule 570's text to that delimited by the ~ symbols.

     ~
     Every player has exactly one Ackanomic name. This name must be a
     string of name characters from three to twenty characters in
     length. Neither the first nor the last character in this string
     may be the space character. All official nomic business shall use
     this name to refer to that player.

     A player may change his Ackanomic name, so long as the new name
     complies with all appliccable rules. This shall be accomplished
     when the player announces his old name, new name, real name, and
     short explanation of the change. The Registrar shall record the
     change. When a player changes their Ackanomic name, all Ackanomic
     business will be changed to follow their new name.

     When choosing or changing their Ackanomic name, no player may take
     any name previously held by any past or present player, unless
     they are the person who was previously registered under that
     Ackanomic name [no one could take the name pTang1001001sos unless
     they really were the Mark Nau who held that name previously.] It
     is the Registrar's duty to make sure all names comply with this
     rule, and it is the Registrar's right to reject any name choosing
     or change which violates it.
     ~

     Renumber Rule 570 to 251.

     ----

     III. [Joining the Game]

     Create a new rule, entitled "Joining the Game", with text as
     shown, delimited by ~ symbols.

     ~
     For the purposes of this rule, a player whose most recent
     departure from Ackanomic prompted the creation of an Undead is
     considered a Returning player. All other players are considered
     New.

     A person wishing to join the game, and who cannot do so as a
     Returning player, should notify the Registrar, providing a valid
     email adress, their real name, and the legal Ackanomic name they
     wish to play under. Upon them providing this information, should
     the requested name indeed be a legal Ackanomic name, the Registrar
     shall post a public message announcing the new player and
     providing their Ackanomic name, real name, and email adress, and
     if the prospective player provided it, how they discovered the
     game. Upon the posting of such an announcement, the person becomes
     registered as a player.

     Upon the regisration of a New player, the following procedure
     takes place, in the order shown.
     1) The New player is granted 1 kaa of urban land and a Small
     building thereupon as their legal residence. This building shall
     be known as their Home. This building shall also be known as
     "player name's House", where "player name" is replaced by their
     official Ackanomic name. A player may change the name of this
     building by publically announcing the new name and unambiguously
     identifying the building they wish to rename.
     2) The New player is paid from the Treasury the lesser of A$900 or
     the average A$balance of all other extant players.
     3) The New player is given 100 newly created PFBonds associated
     with himself. The Financier shall assign a label that may be used
     to refer to the PFBonds associated with the New player, although
     this procedure may continue without waiting for him to do so.
     4) The Registrar shall select a Mentor for the new player. The
     Mentor receives A$25 from the Treasury.

     A person able to join the game as a Returning player may do so by
     posting a public message to that effect. This message must include
     their Ackanomic and real life names, as well as a valid email
     address. The Registrar shall then record their return to the
     players list.

     Upon the registration of a Returning player, the following
     procedure takes place:

     1) The Undead created in response to their most recent departure
     from Acka, who bears the Ackanomic name that player had
     immediately prior to his most recent departure from Acka,
     transfers all entities it is haunting to the Returning player.
     These entities are now no longer haunted.
     2) That Undead is destroyed.
     3) All Bond Promissories in that player's real life name are
     converted to PFBonds associated with that player. Their label is
     the same as the PFBonds whose conversion created the Bond
     Promissories.
     4) If the player left during the current cycle, his score is the
     minimum of 0 and the score he had upon last leaving the game.
     Otherwise, his score is -15N, where N is the number of cycles he
     has won. If this causes his score to be negative, he is given a
     Victory Eggplant, and his Eggplant Weight is set to -15N, where N
     is defined as above.
     ~

     Renumber Rule 1577.1 to 252.

     In Rule 362 "No Dead Players Allowed", delete all text between the
     string "and treated as if he never joined the game" and the end of
     the paragraph, inclusive. Add a period to the end of this
     paragraph.

     Amend the first paragraph of Rule 1051 "Mentors" to read, "When
     the Registrar must select a Mentor for a new player, he shall
     follow these guidelines. No one may become a mentor except as
     specified in the rules." Delete the sentence containing the string
     "A$25" from Rule 1051. Renumber Rule 1051 to 253.

     Repeal Rule 1026 "New and Returning players".

     Delete the paragraph beginning, "Each player who has not
     previously..." from Rule 839 "Buildings".

     [This next few bits attempts to account for either the passage of
     failure of reorg-1. Please scrutinize carefully.]

     If Proposal 1539 passed, do the following: (1) Delete the second
     paragraph of Rule 665, section I. (2) Delete the third paragraph
     of rule 507. (3) Add "(vii) the name and email address of their
     Mentor" to the end of Rule 409, section (b).
     [money, PF's, Registrar]

     If Proposal 1539 did not pass, do the following: (1) Delete the
     second paragraph of Rule 480. (2) Delete the third paragraph of
     rule 481. (3) Add "(vii) the name and email address of their
     Mentor" to the end of Rule 424, section (b).
     [same in current ruleset]

     ----

     IV. [Player States]

     Create a new rule, entitled, "Player States" with text as follows,
     delimited by ~ symbols.

     ~
     At any given time, exactly one of these three states shall apply
     to a player.

     Pending
     Active
     Vacation

     Upon registration, a player is Pending. A Pending player becomes
     Active when it becomes publically knowable that he has voted or
     made a proposal.

     Only Active players may be randomly selected for anything.
     ~

     Renumber Rule 1577.2 to 254.

     Renumber R457 "Vacation" to 255.

     In Rule 306 "The Magic Potato", replace all occurrences of the
     string, "randomly chosen player" with "randomly chosen Active
     player".

     Amend Rule 201, "Quorum and Active Players," to read, "In a vote
     on a proposal the quorum required is 50% of (the sum of the number
     of Vacationing players who voted on the proposal and the number of
     Active players, less the number of players in Gaol)."

     ----

     V. [Leaving the Game]

     Amend Rule 962.2's text to that delimited by the ~ symbols, and
     change its title to "Leaving the Game."

     ~
     Upon a player leaving, the following procedure takes place, in the
     order shown.
     1) All of his mimsy possessions are taken away and considered
     unowned.
     2) The player is removed from all offices.
     3) The rental period for any rented entities in his possession
     ends. [They return to their true owners.] If there exist any
     entities being rented from him, such entities are no longer
     considered rented; the rental period for such entities does not
     end, but simply cease to exist; their current possessors become
     their owners in fact.
     4) If the player was never at any time Active, all of his A$ are
     transferred to the Treasury, every PFBond associated with him is
     destroyed, every rented entity in his possession reverts to its
     owner, every entity remaining in his possession is destroyed, and
     then the player is deregistered. In this case, the procedure ends
     here.
     5) If the player was at any time Active, the procedure continues.
     6) Every PFBond assiciated with him is converted into a Bond
     Promissory in his real life name. Bond Promissories are tradeable
     entities.
     7) An Undead is created; its name is that of the player.
     8) All entities in the player's possession are taken away,
     considered unowned, haunted by the just-created Undead, and in the
     Treasury.
     9) The player is deregistered.
     ~

     Renumber R 962.2 to 256

     All Bond Promissories associated with currently registered players
     become PFBonds associated with that player.
     }}

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:41:19 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1578 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 12 Players cast votes
7 YES votes - 2 NO votes - 3 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

Proposal 1578 - Thu 19 Dec 12:47 CST 1996
Horn Section
Malenkai (Randy Hall)

Malenkai gains 5 points (+harf bonus) and becomes Harfmeister:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Mohammed
Malenkai                     Harf
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Habeous Corpus

NO Votes:
- --------
ThinMan                      Vulcan
breadbox

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Swann
AirHead                      Harf

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer
Lestrade

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------
    This is a Modest proposal.

     Amend R 667, "Fat Lady", to add the following text to the end of
     the rule:

     "
     Any player who possesses both the Great Trombone of Ackanomia, and
     the Great Tuba of Ackanomia, may accompany her, provided they
     publically post an original lyrical composition of 8 or more lines
     while she is singing, for her to sing, and provided they were not
     the player who most recently accompanied her as described in this
     rule. Upon doing so, a Bonus Vote shall be created and transferred
     to the player. It is considered good form for the song to contain
     at least one truly deplorable pun.
     "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:55:32 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1579 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
7 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 3 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

Proposal 1579 - Thu 19 Dec 12:47 CST 1996
Bartender
Habeous Corpus (Ed Graham)

Habeous Corpus gains 10 points (+harf bonus) and becomes Harfmeister:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
AirHead                      Harf
Malenkai                     Harf
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Habeous Corpus
Lestrade
breadbox

NO Votes:
- --------
ThinMan                      Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Swann
Mohammed

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

     Create a new Rule entitled: Bartender, with text:

     The Title of Bartender is created. There will be at most on
     Bartender at any one time. Whenever the start of a Festival of
     Torkula, Parade or any other festivity allowing the frinking of
     alchololic beverages is anounced, the Officer in Charge of Random
     Things shall randomly select one Player to hold the Title of
     Bartender. That Player shall hold the Title for the duration of
     the festivity for which e was selected. Once selected, no other
     Player may be selected as Bartender for the duration of the
     festivity. If the Bartender should go on vacation, resign from the
     game, be placed in Gaol, or for any reason become ineligeble to
     serve as Bartender, frinking of alchololic beverages shall no
     longer be allowed for the duration of the festivity.

     The Bartender is responsible for dispensing drinks and snacks to
     Players during the festivity for which e was selected to serve as
     Bartender. The Bartender shall collect all moneys for drinks
     and/or snacks due per applicable Rules and maintain an accurate
     account of all Tabs. At the end of the festivity, the Bartender
     shall remit one half of all moneys collected for drinks and/or
     snacks to the Treasury. The other half shall be retained by the
     Bartender as payment for services rendered.

     If any Player frinks the maximum allowable of alchololic beverages
     during a single festivity, the Bartender shall call a Taxi for
     that Player to transport em home. The charge for taking a Taxi
     shall be A$2, paid to the Bartender who may keep the entire sum.
     If the Player involved does not have A$2, or wishes to decline
     paying for the Taxi, e may instead entertain the other revellers
     with a Frinking Song of at least six (6) lines and not longer than
     twelve (12) lines in length.

     During the period that a Player holds the Title of Bartender, e
     may not frink any alchololic beverages nor give away any
     alchololic beverages to other Players. E may, however, munch on as
     many snacks as e likes.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:58:20 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1580 Fails 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
4 YES votes - 7 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

Proposal 1580 - Thu 19 Dec 12:48 CST 1996
No Frinking and Driving
Habeous Corpus (Ed Graham)

Habeous Corpus loses 7 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Habeous Corpus

NO Votes:
- --------
ThinMan                      Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Lestrade
breadbox
AirHead                      Harf
Malenkai                     Harf
Mohammed

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Swann

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:02:23 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1581 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
8 YES votes - 4 NO votes - 1 PRESENT votes - Proposal Passes

Proposal 1581 - Thu 19 Dec 12:48 CST 1996
Sanctity of Harf
Robert Sevin (Mitchell Harding)

Robert Sevin Gains points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Robert Sevin                 Harf
Lestrade
breadbox
AirHead                      Harf
ThinMan                      Vulcan

NO Votes:
- --------
Habeous Corpus
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Malenkai                     Harf
Mohammed

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Swann

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------
     No player may have the character string (delimited by the
     quotation marks) "harf", nor any variation wherein the only
     difference is capitalization, contained within their Ackanomic
     name.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:05:16 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1582 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 13 Players cast votes
10 YES votes - 1 NO votes - 3 PRESENT votes - Proposal Passes

Proposal 1582 - Thu 19 Dec 12:48 CST 1996
Auction Reform
Malenkai (Randy Hall)

Malenkai Gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
snowgod                      (None Yet)
breadbox
AirHead                      Harf
ThinMan                      Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Malenkai                     Harf
Mohammed
Vulcan Unity Vote

NO Votes:
- --------
Habeous Corpus

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Swann
Robert Sevin                 Harf
Lestrade

Abstentions:
- -----------

23 Skidoo
Bascule
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
fnord
Jammer

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt
Strider

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------
     No player may have the character string (delimited by the
     quotation marks) "harf", nor any variation wherein the only
     difference is capitalization, contained within their Ackanomic
     name.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:06:26 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Possibly my last tabulator rant ever :) 

I have to go to work now, and will release the rest of the results (through
1588, I believe) when i get home from work tonight.  Until then, so long,
farewell, etc, etc, etc...

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:43:21 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Alternative to Senatorial Consent 

I present here an alternative to CnH's controversial Senatorial Consent scheme.

Imagine if you will, that we keep the promotion system open, allowing any
player to submit whatever proposals they like, and, even if doomed to
failure, commit themselves to those proposals.

Imagine also, that any expert in a field that relates to said proposal can
issue an 'Expert Advisment Bulletin" or something like that, announcing
potentially fatal flaws that they see in a proposal.  These bulletins would
be limited (by sneering or quackery or something similar) to adressing
faults in implentation and would it would be strictly verboten for an
expert to issue a summary based on content or ideas.

Imagine too, if an expert issues a bulletin on a proposal (ie, this won't
work because blah blah blah) the proposer may repeal his proposal within
three days of the bulletin without suffering any penalties.

I believe that such a system would have the advantages of CnH's without any
of the drawbacks.  Of course, it needs refinement, but I thought it was a
pretty good idea for one I came up with while showering.

Oh well, I'm off to work.  let me know what you think.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:56:04 -0600 (CST)
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Alternative to Senatorial Consent 

>I present here an alternative to CnH's controversial Senatorial Consent scheme.

It isn't "mine" btw.   :|

>I believe that such a system would have the advantages of CnH's without any
>of the drawbacks.  Of course, it needs refinement, but I thought it was a
>pretty good idea for one I came up with while showering.

That's a very good suggestion and it fulfills the first (and I think most
important) criterion. Voluntarily too, as players can still vote for bad bad
things [smile]. Make sure there are some kind of drawbacks if the expert
doesn't do his job right.

So I like it. However, it fails to reduce public broadcast, increases it rather.

In a game with many players, with many many proposals and discussions going
on, the idea was to cut down on it. Because as RS said, look what happened
when we had 30 or so players and players started dropping out because of the
amount of email.

Come to think of it, let's look at what happens after today, when we have
broken the trend and sent about half a meg of messages (I think). And this
is just discussions on abstract things. What about when it comes to the many
proposals!

So if you propose it, I'll support it. And then we can work with a special
focus on reducing email amount. What do Malenkai, Robert Sevin and Niccolo
Flychuck think?

Calvin N Hobbes
one of the five bandwidth crowder

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 19:18:46 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Alternative to Senatorial Consent

T Joffrain wrote:

> So if you propose it, I'll support it. And then we can work with a special
> focus on reducing email amount. What do Malenkai, Robert Sevin and Niccolo
> Flychuck think?

Since you asked directly:  If you have been reading my writing, I have
been proposing *voluntary* as an alternative.  Check the e-mail.  I
have also proposed consultancies, volunteered to do it myself, and
proposed an idea of 'Expert Stamping', all on a voluntary, and perhaps
for fee basis.  Imagine the avenues of interesting gameplay opened.

Also ignored has been my suggestion to seperate the e-mail volume
debate from this debate, a seperation I find wholly appropriate.  It seems
you are coming around on this idea too, again something I posted a
while ago.

Malenkai
I really gotta go guys....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 16:26:43 -0800
From: Stephen McCulley <[email-masked]>
Subject: RFC:Acka:Bureau of Super-Hero Legislation

Salutations!

	New Proposition with text in<<<>>>

<<< Create the Functional Office of Super-Hero Liason. This office shall
be filled by election under R402

	Duties:
	     1:Determine public opinion of various Super-Heroes and create
propositions regulating their existence in Acka, if any.
	     2:Inform said Super-Heroes of these regulations[so we don't have
to bring down consequences on extranomic entities]

	Privilges:
		1:Receive the standard Officers salary.
		2:Invite said Super-Heroes to visit Acka for Festivals.
		2a:Report on their presence at said Festivals.
		3:Plead with said Super-Heroes to assist with
disaster                   relief.

		The term of duty for a Super-Hero Liason shall be six(6) months.>>>

Comments?

			Regards, 
				Strider

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:49:14 -0600 (CST)
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Alternative to Senatorial Consent 

>Since you asked directly:  If you have been reading my writing, I have
>been proposing *voluntary* as an alternative. Check the e-mail.  I
>have also proposed consultancies, volunteered to do it myself, and
>proposed an idea of 'Expert Stamping', all on a voluntary, and perhaps
>for fee basis.  Imagine the avenues of interesting gameplay opened.

You said it half way through, here is how it went:

>Malenkai said:
>>and RFCs, so long as my comments have no *legal* weight.  The key word
>>here is *voluntary*.

CnH replied:
>Hum... I see the validity of that point.
>Still, it would be much better to have as sound as possible a rule set. Or
>as RS brought up, there is still the problem of bandwidth with too many
players.

See! See! See! I agreed straight away! I just had other points to continue
discussing.   :|

Note however, that I want Experts to *have* to point out these flaaa...
hum... things.  :)   Then they should be held accountable if they don't. We
could have votes with the options being:

"e failed to notify me that was a silly proposal!"
"no! it's fine!"

With penalties for the expert(s), of course.   :)
Whole worlds of suing experts for negligence. Comtempt of court, etc, etc.
Wow. Love it.

>Also ignored has been my suggestion to seperate the e-mail volume
>debate from this debate, a seperation I find wholly appropriate.  It seems
>you are coming around on this idea too, again something I posted a
>while ago.

Well, I saw the two as the two faces of the same coin. But since we were
getting nowhere with the current topic, I agreed we should solve it bit by bit.

>Malenkai
>I really gotta go guys....

Nah.

Calvin N Hobbes
who has already missed an appointment (not vital)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 20:44:17 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Steven A. Swiniarski)
Subject: Re: Acka: Oh, Silly me

>
>At 11:19 AM 05-01-97 -0900, Phil Ackley wrote:
>>IF Mohammed takes the job of tabulator from me,
>>AND if Habeous Corpus does not want the job of Registrar,
>>and IF you guys can put up with me in yet another functional office :)
>>THEN I will volunteer for the office of Registrar.
>
>bus error
>segmentation fault (core dumped)
>
>Unix>Calvin N Hobbes
>
>Command not found
>
>Unix>
>
>
>
ROTFL!

Swann

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:06:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Problems with P1577

While trying to apply P1577 to the rule set, I found two
problems with it.

The less severe one is in this section:

> If Proposal 1539 passed, do the following: (1) Delete the second
> paragraph of Rule 665, section I. (2) Delete the third paragraph of rule 507.
> (3) Add "(vii) the name and email address of their Mentor" to the end of
> Rule 409, section (b).
> [money, PF's, Registrar]

Rule 665 was renumbered by proposal 1539 to rule 505, and
it is clear that it is referring to that rule, so the
spelling rule fixes this error.

The more severe problem is this:

P1577 creates a single rule, R1577, exclosed entirely in
{{double curly brackets}}, which does various other things:

> Create a new rule with text as follows:
> {{
> Perform the following actions, in the order they appear.
> 
> ----
> 
> I. [Registered players]
> Renumber Rule 218 "Registered Players" to 250.
 [...]
> III. [Joining the Game]
> 
> Create a new rule, entitled "Joining the Game", with text as shown,
> delimited by ~ symbols.
 [...]
> Renumber Rule 1577.1 to 252.

I am not certain that the rule "Joining the Game" would receive
the number 1577.1, or for that matter, any number at all.  Rule 453
is the only one that assigns rule numbers, and it only handles cases
where a rule change in a proposal creates the new rule.  However,
rule 453 also insists that every rule has a number.

There is another rule creation later on in the rule, which is then
renumbered from 1577.2 to 254.

There are several possibilities I can imagine for what happens now:

1. "Joining the Game" is initially unnumbered, but the "Rule 1577.1" in
the renumbering bit is replaced with ""Joining the Game"" by the
spelling rule, and the result is as intended.

2. "Joining the Game" is initially unnumbered, and the Renumbering fails,
leaving the rule numberless.  (This could potentially be a precedence
paradox

3. "Joining the Game" fails to be created in the first place, because
the creation action doesn't specify a number, and rule 453 (which has
precedence over rule 1577) requires the rule to have a number.

4. Since a rule change is, by rule 103, "a description of a game effect",
the rule creation within rule 1577 is considered to be a rule change
(contrary to our traditional definition) and the "proposal which created"
the new rule can only be proposal 1577.  Since rule 1577 exists while this
is happening, the new rule is numbered 1577.1, and is then renumbered to
252.  (The other new rule is then also numbered 1577.1, but the spelling
rule should correct 1577.2 to 1577.1 in the renumbering change, which
succeeds in changing the number to 254.)

In any case, I listed the rules as 252 and 254 on the web page, to put them
where they were supposed to go.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 22:34:01 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Regarding Modest and Grandiose Proposals

I would like some comment on this subject before I write this up as a
proposal. Rule 209, which governs Modest and Grandiose proposals, seems
too vague in practical application to me. I would like to change it in
the following ways

1) Define when proposals shall be classified as Modest. IMO Modest
proposals involve changing the wording of an existing rule in a way that
doesn't change the function of the rule. Creation of new rules IMO would
not qualify as modest.

2) Modify Grandiose proposals. With the  exception of Reorg II, I have
seen nothing in the month I have been involved in Ackanomia that I would
call Grandiose. However, it is certainly more difficult to catagorize
grandiose proposals than modest ones. What is grandiose for one may not
be for another. 

How then would Grandiose proposals submitted?

If a player believes his proposal is Grandiose then he states so when
the proposal is submitted. The other players, in addition to voting on
the proposal itself, vote on if the proposal is Grandiose. If the
majority of active players agree then the proposal is Grandiose, if it
is not agreed then it will be scored as a normal non-modest proposal. 

Your comments welcome,

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 23:47:26 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Regarding Modest and Grandiose Proposals

john duncan wrote:
> 
> I would like some comment on this subject [R 209]
> 
> 1) Define when proposals shall be classified as Modest. IMO Modest
> proposals involve changing the wording of an existing rule in a way that
> doesn't change the function of the rule.

Well, they may change the function of the rule, they generally don't
change the *gist* of the rule.  Perhaps thats the same thing :).  To
me they are bug fixes that people should not get points for voting
no, because they generally are needed and the player who is fixing
bugs should be at little risk of failure.  OTOH, the player should
less credit than normal for fixing bugs.  It basically reduces the
risk matrix for needed things.

> Creation of new rules IMO would not qualify as modest.

I agree with this, but personally like the current system of modesty
being declared by the author.  Jammer's False modesty rule (with some
technical corrections, IMO), would work well with this.

> 
> 2) Modify Grandiose proposals. With the  exception of Reorg II, I have
> seen nothing in the month I have been involved in Ackanomia that I would
> call Grandiose. However, it is certainly more difficult to catagorize
> grandiose proposals than modest ones. What is grandiose for one may not
> be for another.
> 
> How then would Grandiose proposals submitted?

I just submitted Reorg II, and almost declared it Grandiose but did not.
My rule is that if it takes 30 minutes or less to write, its modest,
unless its risky; anything over that is normal, anything over 4 hours
to write is Grandiose.  Reorg II took about 6 hours, but I'm not the
grandiose type, so I bagged it.  Perhaps grandiose should be declared by
someone other than the author, I dunno.
 
Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 21:52:25 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka: Regarding Modest and Grandiose Proposals

Lestrade wrote
> 
> I would like some comment on this subject before I write this up as a
> proposal. Rule 209, which governs Modest and Grandiose proposals, seems
> too vague in practical application to me. I would like to change it in
> the following ways
> 
> 1) Define when proposals shall be classified as Modest. IMO Modest
> proposals involve changing the wording of an existing rule in a way that
> doesn't change the function of the rule. Creation of new rules IMO would
> not qualify as modest.
> 
> 2) Modify Grandiose proposals. With the  exception of Reorg II, I have
> seen nothing in the month I have been involved in Ackanomia that I would
> call Grandiose. However, it is certainly more difficult to catagorize
> grandiose proposals than modest ones. What is grandiose for one may not
> be for another. 
> 
> How then would Grandiose proposals submitted?
> 
> If a player believes his proposal is Grandiose then he states so when
> the proposal is submitted. The other players, in addition to voting on
> the proposal itself, vote on if the proposal is Grandiose. If the
> majority of active players agree then the proposal is Grandiose, if it
> is not agreed then it will be scored as a normal non-modest proposal. 
> 
As you state it, modest proposals can't be made except to edit wording.
which can be dealt with in other ways.

IMO a modest proposal does not radically change the game environment of
Ackanimic.
for example I like Fly-under, It funny, its interesting, and it's witty, I
would call
modest.  If under later circumstances the air under Acka were to become 
important that could change.  What is modest to one player is not modest to
another

While there are corrections to be made in it, look at Proposal 1599, "False
Modesty", it
allows a submitter to say if a proposal is Modest then allows anyone else,
active, to
chalange it.,  

IMO, a Grandiose Proposal changes the Game state in a major way, it 
afects. more then three rules, it creates an enties, or an office, or it
adds a
substantial area to be ruleset.

I also think most proposals are normal, neither modest or Gandiose.

Jammer
Who is not wearing a prostetic forehead shaped like the
forehead of the latest Superman since he never bought
one.

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End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #440
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