Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #434
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Friday, January 3 1997        Volume 01 : Number 434

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:40:52 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka:  RFC G&C Fascist

> 
> A game of Fascist may not begin until an Emperor has been chosen.  When a

> game of Fascist begins, the Emperor shall make a copy of this rule set.
> That copy is, from then on, the rules of the game.  The game is played 
> by the Emperor and a number of peasants; the Emperor may not be a
peasant.
> 
> A non-peasant may (humbly) petition the Emperor to allow em to join the 
> game.  If the Emperor announces that someone has joined, that person 
> becomes a peasant.  The Emperor may also dismiss any peasant from the 
> game at any time by announcing who has been dismissed.
> 
> When a peasant first joins, eir score is 0.  Whenever a peasant is 
> subjected to horrific torture, eir score is decreased by 2.  Whenever a 
> peasant's plea is answered, eir score is increased by 3.  When a 
> peasant's score is at least 25, that peasant wins the game.  The Emperor 
> shall track the peasant's scores.
> 
> A peasant may submit a plea by sending a message to the Emperor.  The 
> plea should be a humbly phrased suggestion of a way to change the rules. 

> The Emperor shall then either answer the plea, in which case the change 
> is applied; ignore it; or scowl at it, in which case the Emperor's Thugs
> go out and subject the peasant who submitted it to horrific torture at 
> once.
> 
> Whenever there is a problem of interpretation or conflict in the ruleset,

> the Emporer shall sort it out to eir liking.
> 
I like the idea.

However:

You don't state who is the next Emeror,  I would say the winner should.

What happens if everyone is dismissed.  Can a new game be started?

If there is only one peasant, does e have a forced win?

Are there three options in the Emeror's responce  apply, 
ignore and scowl or are there two?

What happens if the Emeror tries to froce a perpetual game?

IMNSHO, themes add interest to shorter nomics, could 
they be added?

Could Fascist affect the game state in Acka?  Join Inter Nomic?  
Get a Trinket ? or import/export ruleset items :) ?

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 22:29:54 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka:  No Festival of Torkola

>      5b) Upon distribution of any proposal whose last 2 digits are "00",
>      the Promoter may declare a Festival to start on the day following
>      the distribution of the proposal. He or she shall also determine the
>      length. The Promoter is strongly encouraged, but not required, to do
>      this, taking into consideration the state of the game and popular
>      opinion. [ie, a Festival can occur every 100 proposals.]
> 
> I just found this, and since I distributed P1600 yesterday, I would
assume
> it's too late to act on it.  If the ability to declare Festivals is a
> Privelege of the office of Promoter, then I can't do it anyway.  In any
> case, the President can declare a Festival should it be deemed necessary.

> 
> I don't think we really need a festival.  It's been vacation time for the
> past few weeks, and I'm ready to get back to play. 
> 
> So here's to the next 100 Proposals and to the new year.  Cheers.
> 
Here Here.  I agree one hundred percent.  

If you have to call one make it for 1 second :)  

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:12:37 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: new observer

We have a new observer in Ackanomic

Chris Nash
[email-masked]

We welcome him and all other newcomers to Ackanomic.

Niccolo Flychuck
Registrar

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:50:37 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Evil Ballot Stuffer

I am beginning construction of an Evil Ballot Stuffer.  It will be
done in 4 days or so.

Malenkai
Wizard

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:51:38 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CSR 114 Accepted

CSR 114 was accepted.

Malenkai
acting CSRR
- --------------------------------------------

Common Sense Report 114
Malenkai

     Amend R 970, "Ackanomic/Internomic Interface", as follows:

     I. Replace

     "
     Any Ackanomic Player may request the Liaison to make an InterNomic
     Proposal by sending the Proposal to the Liaison. If said Proposal
     is adopted by InterNomic, the player who requested it receives 7
     points upon the Ambassador reporting the fact of its adoption to
     Ackanomic.
     "

     with:

     "
     Any Ackanomic Player may request the Liaison to make an InterNomic
     Proposal by sending the Proposal to the Liaison. If said Proposal
     is adopted by InterNomic, the player who requested it receives 7
     points upon the Liaison reporting the fact of its adoption to
     Ackanomic.
     "

     II.  Replace "ambassador" with "Liaison" in the fifth paragraph.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:57:02 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: snowgod's snowgod's disease hearing

In a rather apethetic turnout, it was found, 3 votes to 1, that
snowgod has snowgod's disease, and he will be so afflicted for the
calendar month of January.

As Medical Examiner, I am creating the following prescription:

- ----
To be cured, snowgod shall submit a proposal whose text is in the
form of a haiku.  Said proposal shall have some substance, that is to
say, if it is accepted, it will change the way Acka is played in some
way.
- ----

Afflicted (3 votes)
- ------------------
Malenkai
snowgod
Robert Sevin

Not Afflicted (1 vote)
- ----------------------
Swann

Malenkai
Count Tabula/Medical Examiner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:27:15 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1605

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> 
> Proposal 1605
> WareHouses
> Jammer
> 
> This is a modest proposal.
> 
> There exist in Acka structure called warehouses.
> 
> Warehouses completey fill a Kaa of land and hold
> 25 thingees
> 
> Warehouses may not have towers.

>Jammer, I have a minor point to bring up. Your proposal 1600 is in conflict with this proposal. 1600 allows towers with any structure.

Lestrade
Nitpicking this morning.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:50:39 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1605

> 
> Jason Orendorff wrote:
> > 
> > Proposal 1605
> > WareHouses
> > Jammer
> > 
> > This is a modest proposal.
> > 
> > There exist in Acka structure called warehouses.
> > 
> > Warehouses completey fill a Kaa of land and hold
> > 25 thingees
> > 
> > Warehouses may not have towers.
> 
> >Jammer, I have a minor point to bring up. Your proposal 1600 is in
conflict with this proposal. 1600 allows towers with any structure.
>  
 You are correct. I was trying to wite these rules in a modular fashion, so
if one rule made it and another
didn't, things would still work, and couldn't figure out a way to say, "If
Warehouses evist, they can't have towers"
if Warehouses don't exist in this context.  I was going to propose a
presidence ammendment after I saw what passed.

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:06:31 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Trinket:  Jammer's Butler

I am creating a trinket called Jammer's Butler

It is 4 thingees in size making it medium sized, and has the following
features:

It is a small humanoid figure 1.25 meters tall wearing a dark suit and a 
grave expression.  It introduces players, looks down its nose at player's
who are not properly dressed, gives a tie to such players, and offers them
canapes.

Cost 25 A$

Jammer -25 A$

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:06:04 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Trinket:  Ties

I am creating a trinket called a tie

Since Proposal 1604 has not yet passed, it is 0 thingees in size.

15 ties are in existance.

Ties are red and white striped men's cravats and are uniquely numbered from
1 
to 15

A single Tie cost 2 A$.

Jammer - 30

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:29:39 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Inside outsidedness

I've been thinking about Inside outsidednes.

In the mundane world, if such a theoretical place
could exist outside the bounds of Acka, what happens to
stuff that gets left outside.

It tends to become destroyed or it walks.

I don't want to over burden the Person in Charge of
Random things, so I was thinking that if a player leaves 
something outside, they must create a treasure map to 
allow others to find it, or destroy it in some fashion.

What I'm having trouble with is what happens if 
players become ghosts, how does thier stuff be dealt with.

Any Ideas?

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:06:44 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Victory by paradox?   Long, contains all rules applicable

Rule 505.8 Section III says Currancy may not be destroyed.
Rule 595/9 States that an auction is held to determine ownership of
a Gadget
Rule 1023/5 States that money changes hand as the result of an Auction

The Scroll of Crumble is a Item created according to a Blueprint.
The Scroll of Auction was Actioned to Niccolo Flychuck
The Scroll of Crumble was used by Niccolo Flychuck
The Scroll of Crumble disappeared

therefore,

A$ disappeared

Jammer
Who intends to use the same logic to explain why it costs less to destroy
structures as to build them

Aplicable Rules:

     The owner of a Scroll of Crumble may Read it by announcing its text
(which the player may make up) publicly. Upon doing so that player must
     indicate some existing gadget. That gadget is then destroyed. If the
gadget was indestructible, three points are deducted from the score of the
     Scroll of Crumble's owner. Lastly, if the Scroll of Crumble still
exists, it is destroyed, too. 

Rule 505/8 
III. Hard Currency: 

     AckaDollars may not be created nor destroyed. This Rule has precedence
over any Rule that would create or destroy A$. Whenever the Rules
     specify that a Player should receive A$, and do not indicate where
those A$ should come from, they shall come from the Treasury. Whenever
     the Rules specify that a Player should lose A$, and do not indicate
where those A$ should go to, or specify that they should be destroyed, they
     shall go to the Treasury instead. The total number of A$ shall always
be 75,000. 

Rule 594/8 
Blueprints
Mohammed (Jason Orendorff)

     (i) A Scientist can create a new Blueprint by publicly posting its
text. In this case, the Scientist is considered the creator of the
Blueprint. A Rule
     can also create a new Blueprint by specifying that it is doing so, and
by specifying its text. In this case, the Rule's author is considered the
     creator of the Blueprint. 

     If a new Blueprint does not (a) introduce exactly one new type of
Gadget, (b) name the new Gadget type, and (c) unambiguously define the
     behavior of such a Gadget, it is immediately destroyed. 

     A Scientist may create no more than 4 Blueprints per calendar month. 

     (ii) When a Blueprint is judged to be in conflict with one or more
Rules, the Blueprint is destroyed, as are any extant Gadgets made from that
     Blueprint. 

     (iii) A Blueprint is lonely if and only if there do not currently
exist any Gadgets made from that Blueprint. The creator of a Blueprint may
destroy
     their lonely Blueprint. If a Scientist leaves or loses their office
for any reason, all of his or her lonely Blueprints are destroyed. [This
gives the
     Players a way to get rid of the Blueprint for some Doomsday device:
impeach the Scientist. In other cases, the Blueprint is generally approved
     by vote.] 

     (iv) If the specificaion or behaviour, attributes, etc, specified by 2
Blueprints is in conflict, the Blueprint which was created first has
precedence.
     If the Blueprints were created at the same time, the one which would
appear first in an alphabetic list (using ASCII) of their titles would hold
     precedence. If this still does not resolve the conflict, or the
precedence cannot be determined with finality for any reason, both
Blueprints, and
     all gadgets made from each, are destroyed, in a large yellow, pungent,
cloud of dust, which remains in the Inventor's home for 3 days. 

     (v) Entites with the same name as a Gadget proposed or introduced by a
Blueprint may not exist or be created unless they are an instance of the
     Gadget described by said Blueprint. 

     (vi) Blueprints are unownable entities. 

     [A Blueprint is not a legally binding document except where the Rules
say that it is.] 

     Created by Proposal 594, Apr 16 1996
     Renamed by Rule 703, Jun 12 1996
     Amended by Proposal 1023, Jul 27 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Renamed by CSR 104, Aug 1 1996, by mr cwm (Eric Murray)
     Amended by Proposal 1092, Aug 15 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1193, Sep 13 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1283, Oct 06 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1444, Nov 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1432, Nov 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)

Rule 595/9 
Gadgets
Mohammed (Jason Orendorff)

     (i) The terms "Artifact" and "Creature", as used elsewhere in the
rules, shall be considered synonymous to the term "Gadget", and all rules
     pertaining to Gadgets shall apply to these terms. 

     (ii) A Gadget's Blueprint is the Blueprint that defines the class of
Gadget to which that Gadget belongs. If a Gadget's Blueprint exists, the
Gadget
     behaves in the manner defined by the Blueprint, and may be manipulated
in accordance with it. 

     (iii) Gadgets are tradeable entities. 

     (iv) The ability to create Gadgets is a Privilege of a Scientist. A
Scientist may create a Gadget only by performing these tasks, in this
order: 

     (a) choosing a type from those defined by existing Blueprints. 

     (b) announcing publicly that a new Gadget of that type is being made.
This cannot be done if the Scientist is already in the process of making a
     Gadget. 

     (c) building the gadget. This task is completed when the Scientist has
spent at least three days building, and the Blueprint defining the type of
     Gadget to be made has existed for at least one week. The Gadget is
created at the end of this time. It has no owner. 

     (d) announcing publicly that the new Gadget has been built and
initiating the process to publically Auction the Gadget, as defined by Rule
1023. 

     (e) If, during the creation process, the Scientist's Privileges are
suspended, the process is paused. If, during the creation process, the
Scientist
     leaves office, no new Gadget is created, or the new Gadget is
destroyed (whichever case applies). The process is then aborted and cannot
be
     continued by the succeeding (or another) Scientist. 

     (v) Gadgets, Creatures, and Artifacts may also be created by rules,
provided the rule specifies the quantity created, the Blueprint which
defines
     its behaviour, and how ownership is to be determined. If ownership is
to be determined by Auction, The Auction shall be conducted by the
     process defined by Rule 1023. 

     (vi) A Gadget's owner can destroy it by publicly announcing that he or
she is doing so, unless the Gadget's Blueprint specifies that it is
     indestructible. 

     (vii) A Gadget may create, destroy, or manipulate a Protected entity
if its Blueprint so specifies. [So, Gadgets can affect other Gadgets,
create
     points, and so on, as long as this behaviour does not conflict with
the Rules.] 

     Created by Proposal 786, May 25 1996
     Renumbered by Rule 794, May 26 1996
     Renamed by Rule 703, Jun 12 1996
     Amended by Proposal 910, Jun 30 1996, by /dev/joe (Joseph DeVincentis)
     Amended by Proposal 1023, Jul 27 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall) [+
self-amendment and temporary text deleted]
     Renamed by CSR 104, Aug 1 1996, by mr cwm (Eric Murray)
     Amended by Proposal 1118, Aug 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1416, Nov 15 1996, by Mohammed (Jason Orendorff)
     Renumbered by Proposal 1444, Nov 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by CSR 110, Dec 3 1996, by mr cwm (Eric Murray)

Rule 1023/5 
Auction
Malenkai (Randy Hall)

     1) An Auction can be called either by the Rules or by any Player. The
call for Auction must include:
     a) the item to be Auctioned, which must be unowned if the Rules are
calling for the Auction, and must be a tradeable entity owned by the Player
     calling the Auction if it is being called by a Player.
     b) the quantity to be Auctioned (default = 1)
     c) the minimum bid (default = A$0)
     d) whether the Auction is to be private or public (default = private) 

     2) The Auctioneer will be Count Tabula if the day of the month when
the Auction is called is odd , and the Inventor otherwise. If either office
is
     unfilled or on vacation, the other shall be the Auctioneer. If both
are unfilled or on vacation, the Speaker shall be the Auctioneer. If this
is
     impossible as well, there shall be no Auction until the situation is
corrected. To go on vacation just to avoid Auctioneer duty is to be
considered
     bad taste, and the other Players are permitted to sneer. 

     3) The Auctioneer is disqualified to bid in a private Auction. The
Auctioneer may use either the title of Auctioneer, or Chief Cheese for the
     duration of the Auction. 

     4) The Auction shall last for 3 days, after which time the Auctioneer
shall announce the results, and all A$ and items shall be transferred to
their
     new owners. If the Auction was private, and not initiated by a player,
the Auctioneer shall keep a 10% commission of all monies transferred to
     the Treasury as compensation for performing the work and not being
permitted to bid. 

     5) The Auction shall be conducted as follows:
     5a) All qualified players are permitted to submit bids of an amount of
A$ equal to or less than the amount they possess. If a player submits
     multiple bids, only the highest will be considered. Anyone who submits
a bid in excess of the A$ they have is disqualified, and their bids are
     disqualified. Anyone who submits a bid below the minimum bid is also
disqualified. Bids may not be retracted. 

     5b) Let N be the quantity of items up for Auction. If the Auction was
Public, The players who made the N highest qualified bids shall each
     receive an item in exchange for the amount of A$ they bid. If the
Auction was Private, the Players who made the N highest qualified bids
shall
     each recieve an item in exchange for the amount of A$ in the highest
qualified bid(s) less than their own bid, or for the amount of the minimum
     bid if there was no such highest qualified bid(s) less than their own
bid. If the number of players who made qualified bids is less than N, then
the
     Auctioneer shall receive all the the remaining items, if the minimum
bid was A$0. If it was not A$0, then the remaining item(s) shall revert to
the
     player initiating the auction. If, instead, they were unowned when the
Auction was initiated, they are destroyed. 

     5c) If the bids are tied such that the Auctioneer cannot determine who
gets item(s), the Auctioneer shall resolve the tie(s) via random means,
     and disclose this fact. 

     5d) If the Auction is private, the Auctioneer shall not disclose the
results to anyone during the process of the Auction. If the Auction is
public,
     bids must be submitted to the public forum. 

     Created by Proposal 1023, Jul 27 1996
     Amended by Proposal 1118, Aug 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1311, Oct 13 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1326, Oct 16 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)
     Amended by Proposal 1392, Nov 9 1996, by mr cwm (Eric Murray)
     Amended by Proposal 1439, Nov 25 1996, by Malenkai (Randy Hall)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:45:06 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Internomic: Results P317 and P318 

Pumpkin Patch nomic is now a voting member of Internomic.

Proposal 317 failed, Ackanomic voting FOR, Agora AGAINST.
Proposal 318 passed, Ackanomic voting FOR, Agora FOR.

Ackanomic gains two internomic points.

Thrings vote on both proposals was a day late.

snowgod
Liason to big I internomic and all that good stuff.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:49:58 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Vacation

I hereby return from vacation.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:04:03 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox?   Long, contains all rules applicable

On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, John Martin Lotz wrote:

> Rule 505.8 Section III says Currancy may not be destroyed.
> Rule 595/9 States that an auction is held to determine ownership of
> a Gadget
> Rule 1023/5 States that money changes hand as the result of an Auction
> 
> The Scroll of Crumble is a Item created according to a Blueprint.
> The Scroll of Auction was Actioned to Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble was used by Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble disappeared
> 
> therefore,
> 
> A$ disappeared

No.
Sure, A$ changes hands when items are traded or auctioned, entities are
constantly being created and sometimes destroyed, but nowhere do we equate
entities with their worth in A$. This resulst in this weird completely
open economy we have here. But the only constant is the number of
countable entities known as A$, not anything that was traded for them.

Strange, perhaps unintuitive, but it seems to be the common practice.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:08:30 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Poet Laureate

Now that the Holiday is over, I'd like to exercise athe President's
privilege and ask the Poet Laureate to compos a poem, in a style of eir
choosing  that will recount the events of the first week of my tenure as
President. The whole bit with the Tornado and everyhing that transpired
before it (Bomb Shelter, Pyraic Frobnotzer, Scroll of Crumble, perhaps
even some thing on the election itself).

TIA

Niccolo Flychuck
President

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:04:09 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox?   Long, contains all rules applicable

On Thu, Jan 2, 1977, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, John Martin Lotz wrote:
> 
> > Rule 505.8 Section III says Currancy may not be destroyed.
> > Rule 595/9 States that an auction is held to determine ownership of
> > a Gadget
> > Rule 1023/5 States that money changes hand as the result of an Auction
> > 
> > The Scroll of Crumble is a Item created according to a Blueprint.
> > The Scroll of Auction was Actioned to Niccolo Flychuck
> > The Scroll of Crumble was used by Niccolo Flychuck
> > The Scroll of Crumble disappeared
> > 
> > therefore,
> > 
> > A$ disappeared
> 
> No.
> Sure, A$ changes hands when items are traded or auctioned, entities are
> constantly being created and sometimes destroyed, but nowhere do we
equate
> entities with their worth in A$. This resulst in this weird completely
> open economy we have here. But the only constant is the number of
> countable entities known as A$, not anything that was traded for them.
> 
> Strange, perhaps unintuitive, but it seems to be the common practice.
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
>
Rule 1023/5 
Auction
 
 5b) Let N be the quantity of items up for Auction. If the Auction was
Public, The players who made the N highest qualified bids shall each
     receive an item in exchange for the amount of A$ they bid. If the
Auction was Private, the Players who made the N highest qualified bids
shall

"item exchanged in exchange for the amount in A$ they bid ", sound as 
if there is equivelance and its value is given in A$'s to me.

I agree it seems to be common practice, however practice isn't rules.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ghost (snowgod)

> I play "nyti".  It is now breadbox's turn.

I play "nytim". It is now Lestrade's turn.

breadbox

Turn order
- ----------
Robert Sevin
snowgod
breadbox
Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:07:13 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox?   Long, contains all rules applicable 

>"item exchanged in exchange for the amount in A$ they bid ", sound as 
>if there is equivelance and its value is given in A$'s to me.
>
>I agree it seems to be common practice, however practice isn't rules.

I would call a CFJ, if I were you... I'm not sure which side I'm on, but it
sounds to me like this is a tenuous equivalence at best... 

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:27:43 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1603 

>Thi codies 1519, to give it some teeth yet still allow room for 
>clarifications and slow expansion of the system.  I

It might just be me, but I think most of these proposals would fit well
together into one large proposal. It would make the rules simpler and it
would make them more unified...

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:51:56 -0600 (CST)
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Prayer for Deliverance 

das gebet:

Astronautically speaking,
"laki atino makini lorhoho"
Is neither aerodynamical
Nor really astrobiologic.

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:01:23 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka:  Proposal 1603

Robert Sevin wrote:
> 
> >Thi codies 1519, to give it some teeth yet still allow room for 
> >clarifications and slow expansion of the system.  I
> 
> It might just be me, but I think most of these proposals would fit well
> together into one large proposal. It would make the rules simpler and it
> would make them more unified...
> 
> Robert Sevin

One)
I had written these as seperate proposal because I felt that they covered 
different areas.  So far, proposals have codified common practice in
buildings, covered size, buying property, building on property, who may 
buy and build on property, and a new type of structure.

The proposal you were commenting on ammends two rules and codiefifes
something 
that has only been talked about -- accounting for size.

Two)
I wasn't sure what would pass and what wouldn't, ad so tried to make these
rules 
as modular as I could to allow them to stand alone.

I am finished with structural proposals, and am trying to get input from
others on
carrying them out

Jammer
Who has decided does not prefer omnibus proposals :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:12:48 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox?   Long, contains all rules applicable

On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, John Martin Lotz wrote:

> Rule 1023/5 
> Auction
> 
> 5b) Let N be the quantity of items up for Auction. If the Auction was
> Public, The players who made the N highest qualified bids shall each
>    receive an item in exchange for the amount of A$ they bid. If the
> Auction was Private, the Players who made the N highest qualified bids
> shall
> 
> "item exchanged in exchange for the amount in A$ they bid ", sound as 
> if there is equivelance and its value is given in A$'s to me.

No value is given. he amount of A$ is not fixed and is whatever the second
highest bid happen to be. On the most recent Otzma Card Auction, a Card
was exchanged for nothing. Is it an entity without value then?
The rules says nothing about the value in A$. It says that it is excahnged
for an amount of A$ that were bid. Just like any entity can exchanged for
any other entity. 
Suppose I give someone all my Otzma Cards for eir Scroll of Crumble. Does
that make the Scroll of Crumble equivalent to those Otzma Cards? Does that
mean we should start counting Scrolls of Crumble in terms of Otzma Cards.
The rule merely codifies one form of barter.
Niccolo Flychuck

 > 
> I agree it seems to be common practice, however practice isn't rules.
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:18:54 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: New Player (mentor - Malenkai)

We have a new player in the game
Real name Stephen McCulley
Ackanomic name Strider
email [email-masked]

Malenkai has been chosen as eir Mentor.

Eir reply to the poll question:

Salutations!!
			Regarding a player name, I choose Strider.

	As to how I found the game; I read Douglas Hofstadter's book,
Metamagical Themas.  This prompted me to search the net for Nomic-type
things.  Upon completing a Yahoo search, I discovered Ackanomic
residing  at the beginning of the list. The rest, as they say, is
history!

				Regards, 	
					Jason

We welcome him to Ackanomic.

Niccolo Flychuck
acting Registrar

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:36:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Trinket: Jammer's Butler

> It is a small humanoid figure 1.25 meters tall wearing a dark suit and a 
> grave expression.  It introduces players, looks down its nose at player's
> who are not properly dressed, gives a tie to such players, and offers them
> canapes.
	This sounds like a Creature.
	Trinkets can't carry things around and don't have behavior in the
sense of giving ties to people.  The above is great as a description as
long as you understand it's *only* a description and doesn't give the
Butler the ability actually to hand out ties.
	No Creatures yet exist.  Malenkai sneaked the word "Creature" 
into the Inventor rule some time ago, as a rider to a more important fix; 
but the word has been largely ignored.  When I say the Butler sounds 
like a Creature, what I mean is that some time ago I drafted a proposal 
to allow Players to build Creatures that are able to (for example) hand 
things out, just as your Butler seems to want to do.
	Unfortunately, it never got proposed; it seemed like a lot of 
bookkeeping.  I'll dig it out again, though, just for giggles... if I can 
find it.
	I'm also going to bring out Pinkerton again, in a more useful 
form-- less weird syntax.  If I ever get around to it.
	Gotta go.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:39:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox? Long, contains all rules applicable

> Rule 505.8 Section III says Currancy may not be destroyed.
> Rule 595/9 States that an auction is held to determine ownership of
> a Gadget
> Rule 1023/5 States that money changes hand as the result of an Auction
> The Scroll of Crumble is a Item created according to a Blueprint.
> The Scroll of Auction was Actioned to Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble was used by Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble disappeared
> 
> therefore, A$ disappeared
	The Scroll of Crumble is not A$.  The fact that it disappeared 
did not cause any A$ to disappear.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:59:47 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Glub

Folks:

I live in Sacramento CA, The news people have been announcing that 
the rivers are still continuing to rise, and I'm not sure what's going
to happen in the next few days.  We're about 1/4 mile from the
Sacramento river so if no one hears from me I may be in a shelter.

I will continue to stay on line if I can.

Hoping the best
John-Martin Lotz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:00:25 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Victory by paradox? 

John Martin Lotz wrote:
> 
> Rule 505.8 Section III says Currancy may not be destroyed.
> Rule 595/9 States that an auction is held to determine ownership of
> a Gadget
> Rule 1023/5 States that money changes hand as the result of an Auction
> 
> The Scroll of Crumble is a Item created according to a Blueprint.
> The Scroll of Auction was Actioned to Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble was used by Niccolo Flychuck
> The Scroll of Crumble disappeared
> 
> therefore,
> 
> A$ disappeared
> 

>
> Rule 1023/5
> Auction
> Malenkai (Randy Hall)
> 

>      4) The Auction shall last for 3 days, after which time the Auctioneer
> shall announce the results, and all A$ and items shall be transferred to
> their
>      new owners. If the Auction was private, and not initiated by a player,
> the Auctioneer shall keep a 10% commission of all monies transferred to
>      the Treasury as compensation for performing the work and not being
> permitted to bid.
> 
The A$ is given in exchange for the item, it is not the same as the
item, nor does it share the fate of the item. 

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:31:04 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Destroying items, was Victory by Paradox

Okay.  It could be a tad more directly stated,  
but understand what you are saying

Jammer
Who intends to use the same logic to explain why it costs less to destroy
structures as to build them

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 21:02:55 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ghost (snowgod)

Brian Raiter wrote:
> 
> > I play "nyti".  It is now breadbox's turn.
> 
> I play "nytim". It is now Lestrade's turn.
> 
> breadbox
> 
I resign. It is now Robert Sevin's turn.

Lestrade

> Turn order
> ----------
> Robert Sevin
> snowgod
> breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:10:05 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Trinket: Jammer's Butler

Mohammed wrote:

> 
> > It is a small humanoid figure 1.25 meters tall wearing a dark suit and
a 
> > grave expression.  It introduces players, looks down its nose at
player's
> > who are not properly dressed, gives a tie to such players, and offers
them
> > canapes.
> 	This sounds like a Creature.
> 	Trinkets can't carry things around and don't have behavior in the
> sense of giving ties to people.  The above is great as a description as
> long as you understand it's *only* a description and doesn't give the
> Butler the ability actually to hand out ties.
> 	No Creatures yet exist.  Malenkai sneaked the word "Creature" 
> into the Inventor rule some time ago, as a rider to a more important fix;

> but the word has been largely ignored.  When I say the Butler sounds 
> like a Creature, what I mean is that some time ago I drafted a proposal 
> to allow Players to build Creatures that are able to (for example) hand 
> things out, just as your Butler seems to want to do.
> 	Unfortunately, it never got proposed; it seemed like a lot of 
> bookkeeping.  I'll dig it out again, though, just for giggles... if I can

> find it.
> 	I'm also going to bring out Pinkerton again, in a more useful 
> form-- less weird syntax.  If I ever get around to it.

Oh, such is life,  Can I withdraw the purchase?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:43:49 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Trinket:   Model of what might have been Jmmer's Butler

It is a small humanoid figure 1.25 meters tall wearing a dark suit and a 
grave expression.  It looks as if it could introduces player, look down
it's 
nose at player's who are not properly dressed, give a tie to such 
players, and offer them canapes but it can't

Value A$ 10

Jammer -10 A$

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:44:21 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Treasure hunt

Prize  Model of what might have been Jmmer's Butler

Treasure Map
IO

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #434
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