Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #430
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest       Monday, December 30 1996       Volume 01 : Number 430

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Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:16:41 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Acka:  A couple of questions

When does vacation end?

Who is the promoter?

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 09:05:33 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  A couple of questions

On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, John Martin Lotz wrote:

> When does vacation end?
Genrarally a Vacation ends when the Vacationing player makes a public
anouncement that e has returned from Vacation. If one overstays eir
Vacation, they may be put On-Ice, which doesn't realy mean much.
 > 
> Who is the promoter?
Mohammed is acting Promoter

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> Jammer
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 00:30:52 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  A couple of questions 

>On Sat, 28 Dec 1996, John Martin Lotz wrote:
>
>> When does vacation end?
>Genrarally a Vacation ends when the Vacationing player makes a public
>anouncement that e has returned from Vacation. If one overstays eir
>Vacation, they may be put On-Ice, which doesn't realy mean much.

And the Holiday ends Dec 30th...

snowgod

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 11:59:22 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: registrar nomination - ends tomorrow

I'd like to remind everyone that the Registrar nomination ends tomorrow, a
few minutes after the end of the Holiday.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 02:24:19 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Duel (snowgod's response) 

>
>I choose the dueling limerick of ridicule your opponent, and, in keeping
>with the reason this duel was called, post the following limerick:
>
>There's a dude whose proposals are cheese
>Who plagues us with snowgod's disease
>Sponging our bandwidth
>'Till there's nary a byte left
>Were it on paper we'd have no more trees
>
>Malenkai

In response to this absurdity, I issue the following limerick:

There once was a man most exhalted
who's logic could rarely be faulted
but his skill as a bard
left his dignity marred.
To save face, he should just have defaulted.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 13:43:54 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Purple Robe of Justice

I am putting on the Purple Robe of Justice.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:04:52 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Duel

Voting can begin on the dueling limericks.  Votes should be sent to
the GamesMaster ([email-masked]) due to a quirk in the rules.  
The voting period ends 3 days after the end of the holiday (Jan 02, 07:00)

- ----

Malenkai wrote:

There's a dude whose proposals are cheese
Who plagues us with snowgod's disease
Sponging our bandwidth
'Till there's nary a byte left
Were it on paper we'd have no more trees

- ---

snowgod wrote:

There once was a man most exhalted
who's logic could rarely be faulted
but his skill as a bard
left his dignity marred.
To save face, he should just have defaulted.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 11:01:00 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Super-User)
Subject: Acka: *ping* 

Today is Sunday, the 29th day of December, in the Year of Our Lord 1996,
and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today.
Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 14 times.

Malenkai
Scholar of *ping*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:03:26 -6:00
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Ghost (Techno)

I have no play, and am withdrawing from the game of ghost.

Techno

> >> The current Ghost word is q.
> 
> I play: qa
> 
> snowgod
> 
> >
> >The turn order is:
> >
> >Robert Sevin
> >snowgod
> >Techno
> >Jammer
> >breadbox
> >Lestrade
> 
> [I'm reposting this with a different subject line just to be on the safe side]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:26:51 -6:00
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Fictionary

Here are the results for this round of fictionary.

Player         Def Written     Def Voted For    Points Scored
- --------        ---------------    ------------------    -----------

Snowgod          1                         6                   0
HC                   2                         5                   2
Malenkai          4                        5                   0
breadbox          5                        2                   3
ThinMan         6                       5                   1
/dev/joe            7                       2                   0

No one voted for the true definition of

#3 zebub: a large noxious fly of Abyssinia, which like the Tsetse fly, 
            is destructive to cattle.

Guy Fawkes scores 2 points as Braniac.

Techno
acting as braniac for Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:46:08 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary (breadbox)

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Here are the results for this round of fictionary.

[scores cut]

breadbox is now the Brainiac.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:50:13 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ghost (Jammer)

The current Ghost word is qa.  It is Jammer's turn.

Turn order
- ----------
Robert Sevin
snowgod
Jammer
breadbox
Lestrade

Malenkai
referee

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:19:11 EST 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Foreign trade

I've been reading a lot lately about the possibilities and problems
involved with internomic activity and thought it was about time I put in
my 1 1/2 cents' worth.

Some,  although not all,  of the theories have attempted to equate
internomic interaction with the game Internomic.  While that game may
play some part in some interactioon,  it is not by any means,  nor should
it be,  the only way in which nomics might conduct trade,  or other
interactive participation.  The recent gift to Pumpkin patch Nomic that
started all this is a good example.  As the player initiating the gift, 
I hoped that some reaction would result,  possinbly sparking _some_
interest in internomic trade and interaction;  but I had no idea the
response would be so consuming.

Many of the ideas concerning Import and Export seem very valid,  and some
of the proposed solutions to possible repurcussions could work.  Biut I
do see a fundamental flaw in the concepts:  It seems that some players
wish Internomic to solve our problems for us.  Even if _we_ draft and
implement the solutions,  they still wish to palm the problem off on
Internomic.  While I do think that Internomic may be expanded,  and
having some sort of Trade Commission in Internomic might make that game
fun,  we must all realise that Internomic is NOT a governing body between
nomics,  but rather a multi-level and seperate game from ours.  Maybe
sometime in the future,  with a little luck and hard work it might become
such,  and in the end standardise the way electronic nomic is played
(which could be good _or_ bad),  but in the meantime,  Ackanomic needs to
come up with a way to regulate particpation with other nomnics on its
own.

When I took up the idea of interaction between nomics,  I originally had
three seperate concepts in mind. It might help if we broke down the
discussion into these three areas:
1.  Trade for Trade's sake.  This would be like the gift to PPN that got
us started.  Involved were no exchange of Points, nor any alteration of
either Nomic's Gamestate.  These are essentially meaningless or trivial
transactions or plays that are only enacted for pleasure or to evoke  a
response that adds to the fun of either or both nomics.
2.  Actions that affect Ackanomic's Gamestate from another nomic.  This
type of trading or game action is more complicated than the first, 
naturally,  and the type that I hoped to develope later as I had more
time to devote to the other nomic states and how they might possibly
beneift my actions in Acka.  Some type of controls would naturally be
necessary,  but the level of coordination between nomics would not have
to be too extensive.  The converse might hold true,  in that game actions
in Acka might affect the Gamestate of other nomics.  Again,  tight
controls would be necessary,  but coordination between the concerned
nomics would not require extensive legislation.  A simple subset of Rules
describing extranomic effects would be all that is required.  Not an
extensive system of Import/Export regulation.  Remember,  if the Ruleset
doesn't allow the Gamestate to be affected specifically,  no effect takes
place.
3.  The third typer of transaction or Game Action is the most complicated
of all;  actual manipulation of extranomic entities to affect Players in
other nomics.  This is the type of interaction that does require
extensive coordination and cooperation between the nomics concerned. 
This is where Internomic itself becomes the most useful in internomic
actions.  An example of this type of interaction would be where I
exported one of my Whamiols to Thring or PPN and continued to collect
Ackanomic Points for its actions in the other nomic.  Or somehow
attaching the Electronic Potato to Agora,  and having its Ackanomic owner
recieve Acka Points for Proposal passed in Agora.  Or having someone in
Thring purchasing an Amber Banana,  and thereby voting on Acka Proposals.

As you can see,  I favor three different systems of internomic trade, 
rather than a single all-encompassing one.  It might be best if we took
the concept of trade and interaction one step at a time,  starting with a
simple system that would allow my first type of trade.  A system suitable
for this type has been proto'd in Internomic,  and I believe it would be
usable here.  The one thing I do not want to see is our turning over all
power and responsibility for internomic actions to Internomic.

If there is support for my concept of three levels of interaction,  I
will be RFC'ing a couple of possibilities soon.  Right now,  I'm trying
to get ready for a RL change in my lifestyle.  Retirement in only six
more days.  After that,  I will be free to concentrate on Acka more,  as
well as other nomics and even some RL activities.

Habeous Corpus
wishing everyone a safe and very happy New Year.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 14:39:40 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Re: Acka: Ghost (Breadbox)

> 
> The current Ghost word is qat.  It is Breadbox's turn.
> 
> Turn order
> ----------
> Robert Sevin
> snowgod
> Jammer
> breadbox
> Lestrade
> 
> Malenkai
> referee

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:44:50 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Foreign trade

[email-masked] wrote:

> 1.  Trade for Trade's sake.  This would be like the gift to PPN that got
> us started.  Involved were no exchange of Points, nor any alteration of
> either Nomic's Gamestate. 

The attempted trade of the eggplant affects the gamestate.  Either we
have an enitity of that name (with snowgod possessing it) or we do
not, that is, IMHO, as the officer who has to keep track of all this 
stuff, a material effect on the gamestate.

> As you can see,  I favor three different systems of internomic trade,
> rather than a single all-encompassing one.

I favor one system.  If it is properly designed, it will handle all
cases of this posts as trivial cases.  I/E is certainly not as 
bureaucratic as it appears.  Its alot like the Inventor.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:53:40 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Foreign trade

On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 [email-masked] wrote:

> Some,  although not all,  of the theories have attempted to equate
> internomic interaction with the game Internomic.  While that game may
> play some part in some interactioon,  it is not by any means,  nor should
> it be,  the only way in which nomics might conduct trade,  or other
> interactive participation.  The recent gift to Pumpkin patch Nomic that
> started all this is a good example.  As the player initiating the gift, 
> I hoped that some reaction would result,  possinbly sparking _some_
> interest in internomic trade and interaction;  but I had no idea the
> response would be so consuming

I'd like to point out that the concept of name spaces can be introduced
within Ackanomic legislature, rather than internomic legislature.
In fact, if introduced in this way it can be made a far more robust
concept than I had previously presented.

The only modification would be that an object recieved from another nomic
will be named according to the nomic from which it was received, which is
not necessarily the one that created it. (An Internomic analog could be,
the member nomic in which the object first appeared, since other member
nomics might import from non member nomics)

All the cases that would not be handled by the original namespaces concept
(an object called "egg" from a nomic called "Chartreuse") could be
provided for within the same rule. I'll elaborate on this later, if
someone wants me to (I'm kinda drafting up Rational Tiers..)

 > 
> Many of the ideas concerning Import and Export seem very valid,  and some
> of the proposed solutions to possible repurcussions could work.  Biut I
> do see a fundamental flaw in the concepts:  It seems that some players
> wish Internomic to solve our problems for us.  Even if _we_ draft and
> implement the solutions,  they still wish to palm the problem off on
> Internomic.  While I do think that Internomic may be expanded,  and

Granted.  Ackanomic might want to join more than one Internomic.

> having some sort of Trade Commission in Internomic might make that game
> three seperate concepts in mind. It might help if we broke down the
> discussion into these three areas:

I'd say, start off with implementic 1, and leave 2 and 3 for later.
This is new territory we're charting here. Something that doesn't quite
lend itself to other forms of nomic.

> 1.  Trade for Trade's sake.  This would be like the gift to PPN that got

> 2.  Actions that affect Ackanomic's Gamestatefrom another nomic.  This

> 3.  The third typer of transaction or Game Action is the most complicated
> of all;  actual manipulation of extranomic entities to affect Players in
> other nomics.  This is the type of interaction that does require

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 17:18:04 -0800 (PST)
From: fnord <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ack!

My computer decided to forget how its hard drive was set up, 
and consequently, lost me a good deal of mail.  I have lost, it
appears, approximately 5 days of Ackanomic mail.  My last
message was from Malenkai on Dec.24 at 13:34 -0500.  

Is it possible for me to get the mail I have missed from
somewhere?  I would appreciate any help.

fnord
(hacking and wheezing, getting over some nasty illness
he got when he visited the family units)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:50:24 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ack! 

Fnord,

Go to the Ackanomic digest FTP archives at:

ftp://wilma.che.utexas.edu/acka/ackanomic-digest/

They are accesible with your web browser or with an FTP client and download:

  v01.n419             18 Kb    Tue Dec 24 06:00:00 1996
  v01.n420             39 Kb    Tue Dec 24 08:44:00 1996
  v01.n421             39 Kb    Tue Dec 24 13:35:00 1996
  v01.n422             39 Kb    Tue Dec 24 23:33:00 1996
  v01.n423             29 Kb    Wed Dec 25 06:00:00 1996
  v01.n424             39 Kb    Wed Dec 25 09:17:00 1996
  v01.n425             39 Kb    Thu Dec 26 05:16:00 1996
  v01.n426             12 Kb    Thu Dec 26 06:00:00 1996
  v01.n427             24 Kb    Fri Dec 27 06:00:00 1996
  v01.n428             32 Kb    Sat Dec 28 06:00:00 1996
  v01.n429             10 Kb    Sun Dec 29 06:00:00 1996

Also, request that anyone who has sent you private mail, or pepople that
you have been corresponsing with resend anything that they have sent since
christams eve.

Finally, buy a Macintosh (preferably a clone by Power Computing) and you
will never have silly little problems like this again :)

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:31:35 -0600
From: "Eric L. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ack!

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> blah, blah, blah...
> 
> 
> Finally, buy a Macintosh (preferably a clone by Power Computing) and you
> will never have silly little problems like this again :)
> 
> snowgod

Boo, hiss.......

AirHead

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 00:20:18 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Magic Potato

Habeous Corpus has found the magic potato.

Malenkai

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #430
*******************************