Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #422
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest      Tuesday, December 24 1996      Volume 01 : Number 422

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:39:26 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1560 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
13 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

Proposal 1560 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
Journalistic Euthanasia
snowgod (Phil Ackley)

snowgod gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

ThinMan                      Vulcan
Robert Sevin                 Harf
snowgod                      (None Yet)
Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
23 Skidoo
Habeous Corpus
Mohammed
Lestrade
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Malenkai                     Harf
fnord

NO Votes:
- --------
Swann
Jammer
breadbox

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
AirHead                      Harf
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

     This is a modest proposal.

     Amend R891 By adding the following paragraph between the first and
     the third:

     A newspaper must publish at least one article during each calender
     month, or it will cease to exist. When this happens, the newspaper
     is said to have gone belly-up.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:43:58 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1562 Fails 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
8 YES votes - 5 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

Proposal 1562 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
Stop Forehead Discrimination! (again)
snowgod (Phil Ackley)

snowgod loses 7 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
23 Skidoo
Habeous Corpus
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
Malenkai                     Harf
Jammer

NO Votes:
- --------
Swann
Mohammed
Lestrade
ThinMan                      Vulcan
fnord

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
breadbox

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
AirHead                      Harf
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:46:10 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1560 Passes 

>Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
>13 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES
>
>Proposal 1560 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
>Journalistic Euthanasia
>snowgod (Phil Ackley)
>
>snowgod gains 5 points:

>Text of Passed Proposal:
>-----------------------
>
>     This is a modest proposal.
>
>     Amend R891 By adding the following paragraph between the first and
>     the third:
>
>     A newspaper must publish at least one article during each calender
>     month, or it will cease to exist. When this happens, the newspaper
>     is said to have gone belly-up.

Note that any newspaper that does not publish before January 1, Ackanomic
time, and has not already published this month, will go Belly-up, holiday
not withstanding.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:48:57 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1562 Fails 

>Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
>8 YES votes - 5 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
>
>Proposal 1562 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
>Stop Forehead Discrimination! (again)
>snowgod (Phil Ackley)
>
>snowgod loses 7 points:

Bummer... I was hoping that we would have SVH's for both Guy Fawkes and mr
cwm when they return.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:52:24 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1563 Fails 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
5 YES votes - 7 NO votes - 3 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

Proposal 1563 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
Hat Box
snowgod (Phil Ackley)

snowgod loses 7 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
fnord
Jammer

NO Votes:
- --------
23 Skidoo
Habeous Corpus
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
Swann
Mohammed
Lestrade
ThinMan                      Vulcan

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
breadbox
Malenkai                     Harf

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
AirHead                      Harf
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:53:44 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1563 Fails 

Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
5 YES votes - 7 NO votes - 3 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

Proposal 1563 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
Hat Box
snowgod (Phil Ackley)

snowgod loses 7 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
fnord
Jammer

NO Votes:
- --------
23 Skidoo
Habeous Corpus
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
Swann
Mohammed
Lestrade
ThinMan                      Vulcan

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
breadbox
Malenkai                     Harf

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
AirHead                      Harf
Clairence
Techno                       Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet) (vacationing)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
BuzzBee
G. Peefalt

[Am I forgeting anyone?]

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 04:54:35 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Tabulatorness 

I will publish the remainder of the voting results after I take a nap :)

snowgod
sleepy

What am I doing awake at 5:00 in the morning on Christmas Eve anyway?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:00:02 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: While I'm wasting bandwidth... 

Wow!

I sent a total of 31 public acka messages (and several more private ones)
tonight for a grand total of 82K (!) of text.  Just thought I'd share...

snowgod
wasting severe bandwidth

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 05:14:58 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Rum Cake 

Are there any public gatherings coming up?  If so, I want the bartender
(should he exist) to make me one of these...

                                     CHRISTMAS RUM CAKE

1 or 2 Qts. Rum                       1 c. Butter
1 tsp. Sugar                            2 Large Eggs
1 C. Dried Fruit                        Baking Powder
1 tsp. Soda                              Lemon Juice
Brown Sugar                           Nuts

Before you start, check the Rum for quality.  Good, isn't it?
Now go ahead.  Select a large mixing bowl, measuring cup,
etc.  Check rum again.  It must be just right.  To be sure the
Rum is of the highest quality, pour one level cup into a glass,
and drink it as fast as you can.  Repeat.  With electric mixer,
beat one cup of butter into large fluffy bowl.  Add 1 teaspoon
of sugar and beat again.

Meanwhile, make sure the rum is of the finest quality.  Try
another cup, (or two).  Open second quart if necessary.  Add
2 Arge Leggs, 2 cups fried druit, and beat till high.  If Druit gets
stuck in beaters, pust jry it loose wit drew scriver.  Ssample rum
again, checking for tonsisticity.

Sext, nift three cups pepper or salt (it really moesn't datter).
Sample rum again. (1 more cups shude be enuff).  Sift 1/2 pint
of lemmon juice.  Fold in chopped butter, and strained nutts.
Sample Rum.  Add a babblespopon of broun sugar, of wichever
color ya find.  Wix mell.

Grease oven and turn pake cam to 350 grades.  Now pour the
whole mess into hoven and ake.  Check rum again and bo to ged.

HARRY MISTCRISS

snowgod
still wasting bandwidt
feeling festive, yet sleepy
who wrote this thing anyway? I see it every year
don't you love these bits of mailing list fluff that never go away?

goodnight

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:26:48 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Buying land

I would like to purchase 1 kaa of land

Jammer		-50 A$

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:14:30 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Lantern: thought

Jason Orendorff wrote:

>         Cute ideas.  Maybe yorl should become its own nomic.  :o)

Actually, if we a going to have a nomic as a subgame, lets look at
formal nomic type stuff.  I haven't looked at some of the stuff on
the 'net yet, but it could be interesting, and was planning on 
investigating the possibility as a subgame (as if we have enough to
keep track of already :)).

>         Should I add to the language to allow duels?

I think making it dual ready would be cool.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:34:49 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Inernomic Trading

Phil Ackley wrote:

> Thring does not even have a currency as we or the Agorans do.  Instead they
> have a tradeable point system, but these are used in different ways than
> our currency.  If anyone is interested, I'll contact their liason for
> copies of the relevant rules, etc.

My proposed protocol should handle this.  Either Thring's concept of
currency translates to the 'generic' concept of currency that the
Customs Form would describe, or it would be neutered.

Think of an Acka-gadget like a Power Saw, with a blueprint as follows:

"The Power Saw, when plugged into a 110V outlet which exists as
described by the rules, can saw any rule whose number is prime in
half".

The Customs Form might read:

"The Power Saw, when given an adequate power source, can be used to saw
rules considered prime in half".

I chose a real-world object because the same principle applies.  What
if, in the real world, I export a power saw to and island that does not
have power outlets, generators, or mabye 220V without adapters.  Perhaps
all they have is petrol-based power.

Either the entity will neutered in its target land/nomic, or the natives
will be smart enough to get it to work.  Perhaps the other land has gas
or magic, and can use of of those things as a power supply.  This could
occur via "hand-waving", as my import side would work (ie, you just
translate from the generic customs form to the specific concepts we have
to get it to work (perhaps it is powered by A$, 1A$ per minute of use),
or you could develop a more complicated system that would require the
specified concept to exist.  That would be up to the target nomic, and
there is no reason we couldn't use magic, and Thring would require the
actual thing to exist.  I prefer the 
specific->generic ... generic->different specific translation scheme with
the assumption that "generic" is pan-nomic, like the basic forces and
technology of the universe.  If the laws of physics are different elsewhere,
tough tomatoes.

The point is, it should not *matter* how Thring's points act as currency.
That is Thring's problem if they import a currency based entity.  Either
it will or it will not work, depending on what sort of import system they
have.  When we develop stuff, we generally would not worry about how it
works elsewhere; we are not yet in the international age as we are in
the real world, we are not building for an export market.

Its like the power saw manufacturer who makes only 110V devices and 
cares not that most of the world is on 220V.  If someone brings their
brand of power saw to Austria, its useless.  I guess we *could*
develop stuff for the export market, but that seems so premature.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:45:57 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Inernomic Trading

Steven A. Swiniarski wrote:

[about internomic trading]

> This idea is still in the formative stages, but perhaps there should be
> some coordination?

I have no problem with coordination, and would like to be included in
such a discussion if it ever arises (perhaps on one of acka's development
mail lists), but I think it would be more *fun* if each nomic developed
their systems in isolation (or failed to develop a system), and the
Internomic rules (capital I) were sparse enough to facilitate the trade,
and do no more.

If we coordinate this, then it seems we are playing one giant nomic,
and some of the interesting situations that could come up when we
export the Great Trojan Horse Plague to Agora would be compromised :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:47:57 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary

[email-masked] wrote:

> Here are the definitions to be voted for.

> 5. A Mongolian temple bell.

I'll go with the bell.

Note, the reply-to should be ackanomic@ ... as the votes must be public.

Malenkai
being sheeped

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:54:03 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Merry Christmas!

Phil Ackley wrote:
 
> And a belated happy Hannakah to Niccolo Flychuck and myself :)

And a happy day off to me, and other non-Christmas, non-Hannakah (I
hope snowgod spelled that right) observers in the crowd :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:27:30 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Inernomic Trading

Malenkai wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with coordination, and would like to be included in
> such a discussion if it ever arises (perhaps on one of acka's development
> mail lists), but I think it would be more *fun* if each nomic developed
> their systems in isolation (or failed to develop a system), and the
> Internomic rules (capital I) were sparse enough to facilitate the trade,
> and do no more.
> 

What we should be looking to do at this stage is to *trademark*, the
various items of the different nomics. Take for example the NAFTA from
RL. Most of the text of the treaty was taken up in defining the
properties of items like Kentucky Bourbon. The same could be done for
the nomics, where items like Prosthetic Foreheads would be defined as
being a Ackanomic *resource*. What would be the point of trade among the
nomics if there were no such defining regulations? 

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:36:55 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Merry Christmas!

Malenkai wrote:
> 
> Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> > And a belated happy Hannakah to Niccolo Flychuck and myself :)
> 
> And a happy day off to me, and other non-Christmas, non-Hannakah (I
> hope snowgod spelled that right) observers in the crowd :)
> 
> Malenkai

Now that I am finally done with holiday shopping (Hurrah!). Happy
holidays to all :)

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:49:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 (snowgod)

> Call For Judgement 325
>   Subject: Trinket Paradox

> Statement:
> Trinket creation (R506/2) and donation to the treasury (R505/8 part VI)
> causes a paradox since this creates Ackadollars when that number should be
> constant (R505/8 Part III).
> 
> Calvin N Hobbes's Reasoning:
> From Rule 505/8 (Treasury and AckaDollars), part III, "Hard Currency",
> the following two things to note. First that it is not allowed to create
> Ackadollars and second that their total number is to be $75000. Therefore it
> must be that there should be always A$75000 in Ackanomic.

> Let us consider also, from Rule 505/8, part VI, "Donation", the following:

Rule 505, section 3, says the rule takes precedence over any rule that
would create or destroy A$, but that section doesn't take precedence over
other sections within the same rule, so the later section has precedence.

Therefore, trinket destruction really does create ackadollars.

There is no paradox; as with a number of attempted paradoxes in the past,
the precedence merely needs to be considered.  We had a paradox win for
lack of intra-rule precedence, and the problem was fixed, several months ago.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:49:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary

> 'ing' word zebub:

I vote for:

> 2. A garment worn by women in Eastern Africa.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:48:14 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 - Missing the paradox

Malenkai wrote:

> Call For Judgement 325

> Statement:
> 
> Trinket creation (R506/2) and donation to the treasury (R505/8 part VI)
> causes a paradox since this creates Ackadollars when that number should be
> constant (R505/8 Part III).

Never afraid to buck the crowd, I fail to see the paradox here.  I don't
even believe I see the bug, but the issue has received alot of press
lately, so I might has well add to the 127K (I don't know where snowgod
got 82K, but its great to see e-mail volume again!).

Forgetting the fact that the statement does not claim that the legality
of an action that would change the game state cannot be determined 
with finality (and thus would not qualify for an R 219 win anyway), it
seems that the issue here is:  

How many A$ are in Acka if a Trinket is donated to the Treasury? and
the claim is that the answer to that question cannot be determined with
finality.

I actually claim it can, depending on how one construes the first 
occurrance of the word 'Rule' in the following sentence of section
III of R 505. 

> This Rule has precedence over any Rule that would create or destroy A$.

A strict construction will lead to the "bug" everyone is talking about,
A common sense construcion will lead to the implementation being as 
intended.  In either case, depending on the judgement of the judge,
the paradox is not there.

Section III of R 505 claims there can be no more that 75,000 A$.  Section
VI claims to transmute a Trinket into some quantity of A$, thus exceeding
the 75K limit.  Its a simple precedence issue.  If section VI were in
R 505.1, R 505 would win by precedence, thus keeping the 75K limit as
intended.

So, its an internal rule precedence problem ala CFJ 256 and CFJ 269.  At
the time, they were both paradoxi, but the amendment to R 210 fixed these
sort of internal rule precedence problems:

> If two statements in the same rule conflict with each other, and the
> rule doesn't define a way to resolve the conflict, then the statement
> which appears later in the rule takes precedence.

So, either the statement in section III or section VI has precedence,
depending on whether the rule "[defines] a way to resolve the conflict".

That brings us to the construction of in section III. 

> This Rule has precedence over any Rule that would create or destroy A$.

I claim that this statement "[defines] a way to resolve the conflict", ie,
section III has precedence over section VI.  That is certainly the intent,
and the common sense construction of 'Rule', ie, to mean this clause,
therefore no paradox, no bug.

If you take 'Rule' strictly to exclude other clauses in the same rule (ie,
section VI), section VI wins, and the number of A$ that may exist is the
sum of A$ 75,000 and the value of all donated Trinkets, again, no paradox,
but what some are calling "inflation" if people start rushing to give their
Trinkets away :)

In any case, it can be fixed by a simple reworking of the precedence claim
in section III, or a deference claim in section VI, or ignored.  I will
propose the amendment unless CnH or someone else wants to do the honors.
Admittedly, its nice to have the language of the rules be free of 
internal precedence problems; the rule is unclear, and requires a CFJ to
interpret it.

BTW, this paradox claim "is based on the same sort of Paradox" (qv R 211),
of previous paradox CFJs.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:39:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 (snowgod)

> The number of "dollars" in an economic system is not the same as the
> number of little green pieces of paper in that system.
	Agreed.  Acka has 75 000 "actual paper dollars" if you will, but 
the game is worth a lot more than that.

> To me, it seems like the A$75,000 limit must be done away with.
	Why?

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:40:44 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Steven A. Swiniarski)
Subject: Re: Acka: Inernomic Trading

>
>Malenkai wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have no problem with coordination, and would like to be included in
>> such a discussion if it ever arises (perhaps on one of acka's development
>> mail lists), but I think it would be more *fun* if each nomic developed
>> their systems in isolation (or failed to develop a system), and the
>> Internomic rules (capital I) were sparse enough to facilitate the trade,
>> and do no more.
>> 
>
>What we should be looking to do at this stage is to *trademark*, the
>various items of the different nomics. Take for example the NAFTA from
>RL. Most of the text of the treaty was taken up in defining the
>properties of items like Kentucky Bourbon. The same could be done for
>the nomics, where items like Prosthetic Foreheads would be defined as
>being a Ackanomic *resource*. What would be the point of trade among the
>nomics if there were no such defining regulations? 
>
>Lestrade
>
>
Hmmm...

Trademark/Copyright law is a fairly high-level thing to worry about before
we've gotten to the bead and trinket level.  However, this is one thing
trade-wise I think big-I Internomic would be suited for, imposing penalties
for counterfiting, trademark infringement and whatall.

Swann

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:41:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Lantern: thought

> A YORL duel (properly refereed) would be a blast.  You may want to add a
> couple of special rules that apply only during dueling (both players must
> agree on the taverkeeper beforehand, blah blah blah). Also, some allowance
> to move the game along faster if there are only two players (less
> paperwork?)
	I think the thing to do is make the players take turns if it's a 
duel, and *not* hand out cards when a player passes or gets interrupted.  
Is there a good way I can cut down on paperwork?  All our games seem to 
require quite a bit of "ref mail".  hmm.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:47:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 (snowgod)

> >         Why?  What's wrong with the worth of the island increasing?
> 
> I think you missed my point; I think it's great that the value of the island
> increases.  The Acka system, as I understand it, does not allow for the 
> value to increase.  The problem is the lack of a distinction between little
> green pieces of paper (what economists call M-1) and other forms of worth
> which are measured in terms of dollars (M-2, M-3, etc.)
	I did miss your point, but I don't think you read the rules 
right.  The Acka system limits the number of Ackadollars that exist.  
(Actually, Ackadollars are large brown things, each of which looks 
exactly like a platypus that is slowly digesting a VW bus.)
	The rules do not limit the worth of Acka in any way.
	Everything is as it should be.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:44:21 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Economics

I am standing on Guy Fawkes's soapbox and throwing my 2 cents worth
into the economic debate.  This seems to be one area that Ackanomicans
have alot of fun talking about, so why not...

First of all, hard currency must be anchored by real value, assets,
resources, whatever.  There has been talk about anchoring it with land,
prosthetic foreheads, etc, but none of these things have real value.

I presonally would not pay more than A$1 for a prosthetic forehead
that was created by someone else, as the *value* to me is in its
creation, the current prices received at auction notwithstanding.
Others may value them differenly, but as a value anchor, they are
lacking.  Same with land.  Are we to say that no more than 50 kaa of
land can exist?  How is that different from A$?

Value and wealth are anchored by absolute (or relative ;) measures of
ones standard of living.  People talk of gold and land and other stuff
anchoring currency, but what if there was some diasaster.  I would
rather have a bushel of apples (or the technology to grow them), than
a cubic meter of gold.  I do not think these RL sorts of economic
anchors can even enter the picture in Acka, except the standard of
living metric.  (Niccolo and I have had debates over 'thinker of
algorithms' increasing his standard of living in an absolute way, thus
creating wealth.  I do believe that that applies to acka, but that is a 
different debate).

I look at standard of living relative to acka, what does that mean?
As near as I can tell, that is measured in units of fun incurred by
a player, and ties into what snowgod said in one of the many posts,
that what people are willing to bid on an entity is basically its 'fun
value'.  The Pryiac Frobnotzer received a higher bid than the Gravitational
Monopole, presumably because it was more fun, or a tool to greater fun
(inasmuch as it can be used to produce a win, change the rules to ones
advantage, etc).

I believe any attempt to anchor currency, or anything else, to anything
other than fun (standard of living) will not simulate any RL economic
system, and really will not accomplish much.  The fun thing (and thus
it becomes self-referential) in my mind, is to experiment or explore
this idea of anchoring currency with fun, and see what that leads to,
and look at what sort of economic system, if any (and I'm not convinced
there will be any), will evolve.

What things have tangible fun value?  Thats a tough thing, I suppose.
Votes seems to be pretty close, in that you have direct control of the
core of the game with votes; deciding that proposals you consider will
make the game more fun shall receive your vote.  Thus using votes as
a value anchor seemed as good as anything else.

Winning also seems fun.  At least alot of people have tried, and large
debates erupt over paradox win CFJs, winning conditions, points, etc.
I believe many people, in their heart, would like to win, or at least
be part of a winning team, or it would be fun to be in a position to
win, or work to a win.  In other words, winning seems like a reasonable
fun anchor as well.

Thus I have attemtped this with R 850, "Museum", created by P 1551.  An
A$ is now worth 1/5000th of a win.  It is also worth some percentage of
a bonus vote, but this is floating.  I do not know if it will *simulate*
or *solve* an economic problem, but it is an attempt to make FUN the
hard asset that backs our currency.  Always open to amendment.  I do
not even claim that this will "work", because "to work" is undefined
in my mind.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 14:53:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 (snowgod)

> Indeed.  One problem I see is that there is no free market competition to
> determine prices.  If the maker of a trinket sets its value at $A10, what
> choice do you have if you want that trinket?  The trinket maker has 
> cornered the market!
	*big smile*  That's cool.  Actually, whatever we are auctioning 
today has a (rule-sponsored) "worth" of A$1, but it seems to be worth 
more than A$1 to several players.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:57:54 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Auction results

All the economic discussion reminded me that the auction for
the 'whatever it is we're auctioning today' is over.  (Mohammed is
actually the auctioneer, but it doesn't really matter).

In any case, the high bid was breadbox at A$15.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:08:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Lantern: thought

> Actually, if we a going to have a nomic as a subgame, lets look at
> formal nomic type stuff.  I haven't looked at some of the stuff on
> the 'net yet, but it could be interesting, and was planning on 
> investigating the possibility as a subgame (as if we have enough to
> keep track of already :)).
	Fascist would make a great subgame.  I'm drafting it.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:11:13 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: A gmae of Ghost

I am anouncing the begining of a game of ghost with Malenkai as the
referee.
Malenkai has provided the following information:

The following is the playing order for the game of Ghost.  It can
be started by Robert Sevin once the GamesMaster acks the start of the
game.  Currently there is no ghost word:

Robert Sevin
snowgod
Techno
Jammer
breadbox
Lestrade

- -------------

The game is afoot.

Niccolo Flychuck
GamesMaster

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:12:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Merry Christmas!

> > And a belated happy Hannakah to Niccolo Flychuck and myself :)
> 
> And a happy day off to me, and other non-Christmas, non-Hannakah (I
> hope snowgod spelled that right) observers in the crowd :)
	Thanks.  Here's to peace on earth and good will to all players 
everywhere.  A joyous season to all!

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 23:18:00 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: (Happy Holidays) Merry Christmas!

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Jason Orendorff wrote:

> > > And a belated happy Hannakah to Niccolo Flychuck and myself :)
> > 
> > And a happy day off to me, and other non-Christmas, non-Hannakah (I
> > hope snowgod spelled that right) observers in the crowd :)
> 	Thanks.  Here's to peace on earth and good will to all players 
> everywhere.  A joyous season to all!
> 
> --Mohammed
> 
And while I'm at it I need to correct an earlier mistake. 
The Ramadan greeting was not late, it was rather a bit early.

btw - In Nazareth, Christmas is celebrated on January 7th (unless you're a
tourist there, in which you would celebrating now)

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:20:37 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC amend R 505

RFC
Amend R 505
Malenkai

[I needed to amend R 505 to allow entities which are unowned by any
acka player to not be in the treasury.  This will eliminate precedence
claims like those in R 1348.2, and make rules like "Museum" work without
the precedence claim.  It will also allow items to leave acka and not
also be in the Treasury.

I threw in the CFJ 325 fix while I was here, not to steal anyone's thunder,
but I was going to do this amendment anyway.

Malenkai]

This is a Modest proposal.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amend R 505, "Treasury and AckaDollars", as follows:

I.  In section II of the rule, replace

"
The Treasury is a named, unownable entity that serves as a storing house
for entities that belong to no Player
"

with

"
The Treasury is a named, unownable entity that serves as a storing house
for entities that belong to no Player, except for those entities for which
the rules explicitly state are not in (or considered to be in) the Treasury.

{{all entities in the Treasury that were donated to the Museum are 
transferred from  the Treasury to the East Wing of the Museum, and 
all necessary transactions are performed to set the state of such items
and the Museum to the state they would be in had the above amendment been
in force when P 1551 was accepted.}} 
"

II.  In section VI of the rule, remove:

"If the item is a Trinket, it is converted into its value in A$ upon
transferrence to the Treasury."

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amend R 1348.2, "Buried Treasure!", to remove

"This clause has precedence over R 505."

from the second paragraph.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 15:43:33 -0600
From: "Eric L. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 325 (snowgod)

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> 
> > The number of "dollars" in an economic system is not the same as the
> > number of little green pieces of paper in that system.
>         Agreed.  Acka has 75 000 "actual paper dollars" if you will, but
> the game is worth a lot more than that.
> 
> > To me, it seems like the A$75,000 limit must be done away with.
>         Why?
> 
> --Mohammed

I was under the assumption that objects of value were considered
dollars to be included in the A$75,000 limit.  I retract the
statement.

AirHead

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:42:24 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Prime and Processing

1) P 1553 was prime (assuming I can still do math), which means an Otzma
Day is declared, if one can be (The RuneMaker should check this).  I'm
thinking of proposing something else for a prime proposal, like a 
Boon of the Ancients for its author.  Anyone have any thoughts, like,
thats a terrible idea?  or a better idea.

2) Processing Chips are awarded for the latest batch of proposals as
follows:  [I'd like these to be used for something.  They are rather a
little bit of work to figure, and I don't mind it so much, unless they
are not used].

p1540 +4 Swann
p1541 +3 Malenkai
p1545 +4 Malenkai
p1551 +4 Malenkai
p1553 +4 Guy Fawkes
p1554 +2 Jammer
p1558 +1 Malenkai

Malenkai
Financier

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:44:50 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Magic Potato

The Magic Potato was found a day late by Techno; the Tuba was found 
by fnord.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 00:09:09 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Prime and Processing

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> 1) P 1553 was prime (assuming I can still do math), which means an Otzma
> Day is declared, if one can be (The RuneMaker should check this).  I'm

An Otzma Day can be declared.

I am not clear however on when it starts.
Consider the following two sections:
- ---
 3. Otzma-Days must be declared at least three-days in advance,    
     unless it has been declared by a rule.
- -----
  VI.   
     Whenever a non-Null Proposal whose proposal number is prime is
     accepted, an Otzma Day is declared.
- ----

I don't believe section VI falls under the phrase 'declared by a rule'.
Since declared by a rule means that the actual rule declares for an Otzma
Day. So, IMO, the Otzma Day starts 3 days after the 1531. Three days which
are currently not passing this being a Holiday.
If the Otzma Day did start today, it would have been the longest one again
because of the holiday, since its three day duration would only be counted
starting at the end of the Holiday.
However, the Otzma Day triggered by the passage of 1531, does not start
today.

 > thinking of proposing something else for a prime proposal, like a 
> Boon of the Ancients for its author.  Anyone have any thoughts, like,
> thats a terrible idea?  or a better idea.

I think there are enough ways for Otzma Days to start. Any Institution can
anounce one, the President can anounce one. In fact, I was going to
Party Hall to anounce an Otzma Day some time soon, just to make the point
that the rules allow this.

Niccolo Flychuck
Identity Crisis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:33:42 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1560 Passes

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> Quorum achieved: 21 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
> 13 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES
> 
> Proposal 1560 - Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:46:34 -0600 (CST)
> Journalistic Euthanasia
> snowgod (Phil Ackley)

I am awarding snowgod a silver stripe for this proposal's acceptance.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:55:39 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Mad Hatter (snowgod)

mr cwm has been on vacation since Dec 9.  As of Dec 23, he was on
vacation for 14 days.  

snowgod has been selected as his Mad Hatter.

Despite mr cwm's rather large forehead collection, my records, as well
as those on the web page, indicate that he is not actually wearing any
of them.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 18:28:18 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Financial

Yield per bond (based on web page score + scores thru p1543 + 
RS Phoebe post + Mohammed's lack of Phoebe post)

1.16      Guy Fawkes           Vg  (Robert Shimmin)
 .87      Habeous Corpus       A   (Ed Graham)
 .64      snowgod              A   (Phil Ackley)
 .36      mr cwm               V   (Eric Murray)
 .35      Swann                V   (Steven Swiniarski)
 .31      Niccolo Flychuck     A   (Uri Bruck)
 .21      Techno               A   (Jerome Herrman)
 .34      /dev/joe             A   (Joseph DeVincentis)
 .34      ThinMan              Av  (John Bollinger)
 .18      AirHead              A   (Eric Freeman)
 .18      Calvin N Hobbes      A   (Thierry Joffrain)
 .17      Jammer               N   (John Lotz)
 .25      Mohammed             Av  (Jason Orendorff)
 .25      Robert Sevin         A   (Mitchell Harding)
 .08      breadbox             A   (Brian Raiter)
 .03      fnord                A   (Michael Thomas)
 .0       Lestrade             N   (John Duncan)
 .0       BuzzBee              V   (John Coifman)
 .0       G. Peefalt           N   (Aaron Morris)
- -.01      23 Skidoo           NV   (David Thomas Fisher)
- -.01      Clairence            A   (Clair Anthony Viglione)
 .56      Malenkai             Av  (Randy Hall)
 .0       Bascule              Av  (Matt Black)
- ---------------------------------------

dividend (debt) based on bond holdings, in A$

23 Skidoo: (1)
AirHead: 18
Bascule: 0
breadbox: 8
BuzzBee: 0
CnH: 18
Clairence: (1)
/dev/joe: 34 + 3.4 + 43.5 = 81
fnord: 2.97 + .64 + .36 + .08 = 5
G. Peefalt: 0
Guy: 87 + 26.1 + 9.3 + 16 = 139
HC: 18
Jammer: 17
Lestrade: 0
Malenkai: 45
Mohammed: 20 + 12.8 = 33
mr cwm: 36
Niccolo: 16
RS: 25
snowgod: 26.88 + 5 + 6.2 + 5.6 = 44
Swann: 35
Techno: 0
ThinMan: 5.6 + 30.6 = 36

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        
All accounts have been updated on my page to reflect everything I know
about up to this point (that I didn't miss).  Generally I paste the log
on here, but it is long, so if you want it, e-mail me, I'm gonna start doing 
it this way from now on, unless alot of people ask for it.

Malenkai
Financier

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #422
*******************************