Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #416
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest       Sunday, December 22 1996       Volume 01 : Number 416

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 06:20:11 +0000
From: "Matt" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bomb Shelter

> From rule 1253:
> > If a Bomb Shelter exists, all players are Sheltered,
> > regardless of their Location.
> 
> /dev/joe
> Still reading the rules

Well, I dunno about /dev/joe, but I hear there's a tornado coming,
so I'm getting in that thar Bomb Shelter! What if the rules have
made a *horrible* mistake?

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 02:21:44 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1583

Jason Orendorff wrote:

> > [let the technology, when it comes to exist as specified by the rules,
> > define how it attaches itself to the vending machine.]
>         *frown*  Now, look.  I wrote that into the new version of the
> vending machine in an effort to preserve the spirit of the original.
> Who's ripping now? 

After the Dormancy crisis, I promised to rip.  I'll stop whenever you
want :).  Actually, I believe this is a more serious loophole than the
other one...,  and it is not an attempt to rip, but to fix.

Malenkai
reformed loophole surfer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 02:27:21 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Victorious Eggplant

Phil Ackley wrote:

> Brings up a funny point though -- conservation of nomic mass :)

Yes, what if they give it back?  :)

I was hoping snowgod would do the legal research on this one, I'm not
really sure, but I do not think the Trinket can leave our game state,
unless the rules specify a procedure for it doing so.

Malenkai
Financier

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:30:26 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Acka:  Internomic items and Acka

This is just an idea I'm throwing up for you to shoot full of holes.

There a rules discribing how to create various types of items, why not use
them

Banging on thr Mighty Wulitzer (for Dramatic effect of course):

If an item is brought into Acka, from anther Nomic, the following procedure
shall be followed,

A)  The internomic Representive shall get a precise description of the item

in question.  getting everyhting needed  to convert it to Ackanomc.  If
an characteristic is not stateded in the original description, e is 
allowed to create the attribute as e desired.

The attribute may include but are not limited to Name, type, Size, Value

b)  the Representive shall introduce the item as a blueprint or Trinket and

go through all precudures outlined in the rules.  

b1) if the item is a trinket,  the treasury shall pay for it and the
Internomic
representive shall have possession of it, unless it it owner or location
are 
sprcified in its creation.

b2)  If the Itewm is a blueprintable item,  the blueprint shall be deemed 
created, and an auction will be held with the internomic representative 
recieving 25 pewrcnt of the winning bid and the treausry recieving the
balance.

b3)  This rule specifiaccaly allows the the Internomic reresenttive to 
make the blueprint and the item,

3c)  if the item is not allowed by the Ackanomic, the representitive shall 
suffer the normal penalies that accompany an unsuccessful bid to create an
item.

3d) an Acka item is sent out, and returned,it shall undergo the same
procedures.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:41:57 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Acka: What is how big and how to say it.

When I posted my question as to where this rule was, I had been thinking
about how to assign sizes to things.

One omnibus package to amend each rule, or a single rulethat adds the
attribute 
to each item?
Does anyone have any strong feeling as to how big various items should be?
My intent was that a kaa of land's olding ability had no bearing on what
the
load carrying ability of a structure,  Do people think that is explicit
enough?
As soon as I figure out who the promoter is I'll ammend the rule to allow 
10 meters of a tower to hold 6 thingees.

Rule 1519/0 
>The Size of Things
>Jammer (John Lotz)
>
>     I wish to make a modest proposal. 
>
>     All Items in Acka have a size measured in thingees. 
>
>     Negligible 0 Thingees
>     Small 1 Thingees
>     Medium 2 Thingees
>     Large 4 Thingees
>     Huge 5 Thingees
>     Really Huge 6 Thingees
>
>     The significance of this is that all structures and land have a
capacity measured in Thingees as well;
>     a Space in a structure holds 10 Thingees
>     a Kaa of land holds 25 Thingeess
>     A Tower holds 6 Thingees 
>
>     Created by Proposal 1519, Dec 15 1996

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 02:57:12 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Duel/Ghost

Mitchell Harding wrote:

> The word indeed is a word involved in Russian politics, and it is my
> sincere hope that our official dictionary contains it. The word is
> guberniya.

The official dictionary does not contain 'guberniya'.  Interestingly
enough, the *old* official dictionary does contain the word.  It is
my recollection that the official dictionary was changed whilst the
game was in progress, but the dictionary in effect when the word was
announced holds sway, thus snowgod wins the duel.

I also believe formal conditions were attached on this duel.  If the
second for snowgod (who is obliged to CFCJ violations thereof) could
announce them (if there were any), that would be cool.

Dec 21 02:51 EST: +6 snowgod: victor in a duel
Dec 21 02:51 EST: +3 Habeous Corpus: second to victor in duel
Dec 21 02:51 EST: -6 Robert Sevin: vanquished in a duel
Dec 21 02:51 EST: -3 Calvin N Hobbes: second to vanquished in duel

Malenkai +8 referee

Malenkai
hoping the proposal to merge the official dictionaries passes

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:55:26 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Acka:  To the Shelter

I descend to the Bombshelter.  I fprayers and rules 
aren't enough,   I think I'll desend.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:12:26 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas

On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Hoepfully the president will declare a holiday over part of thisupcoming
> period, which is a real-life vacation for many of our players.
> 
> /dev/joe
>
How many players are going to be away for Christmas?
 
A Holiday of a few days might be in order. 

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:12:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Duel/Ghost

> The official dictionary does not contain 'guberniya'.  Interestingly
> enough, the *old* official dictionary does contain the word.  It is
> my recollection that the official dictionary was changed whilst the
> game was in progress, but the dictionary in effect when the word was
> announced holds sway, thus snowgod wins the duel.

Actually, I changed the dictionary while they were still searching for
a referee, or perhaps after the referee had been found but before the
beginning of the game was announced -- and I changed it simply because
the old official dictionary was very bad for ghost in particular, the
way some base forms were missing but their derived forms were included.
The current dictionary is used for word games all the time, so while it
may be less complete, it should be well searched-over for
schizophrenic oddities like our old dictionary has, and so in this
sense it is more complete.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 03:18:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas

Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> > Hoepfully the president will declare a holiday over part of thisupcoming
> > period, which is a real-life vacation for many of our players.

> How many players are going to be away for Christmas?
>  
> A Holiday of a few days might be in order. 

5 of them have already gone on vacation, as you should be keeping track of
as part of your other jobs.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:19:59 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Bomb Shelter and Tornado

As I watch Ackanomic I see that many players are on their was to the Bomb
Shelters. Others have proclaimed their trust in the rules. It is true that
the rules do ensure everyone's safety, regardless of their location, as a
Bomb Shelter has been built. However, at a time like this, the comraderie
of one's fellow players is no less significant than one's safety. The
feeling that we are all going through this shared experience, and together
we shall come of it strengthened in spirit. 

Niccolo Flychuck
President

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 11:26:50 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
> > On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> > 
> > > Hoepfully the president will declare a holiday over part of thisupcoming
> > > period, which is a real-life vacation for many of our players.
> 
> > How many players are going to be away for Christmas?
> >  
> > A Holiday of a few days might be in order. 
> 
> 5 of them have already gone on vacation, as you should be keeping track of
> as part of your other jobs.
> 
I'm aware of that. But this is hardly irregular.

A Holiday for the entire duration of Christams would be too long.
I was thinking starting it on 24th, for a duration of 5-6 days 
(this is not an anouncement yet - just putting my finger to the pulse)

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:30:58 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bomb Shelter 

>> I beat a hasty retreat to the bomb shelter, still waiting to see the outcome
>> of my duel.
>
>You don't need to do this.
>
>>From rule 1253:
>> If a Bomb Shelter exists, all players are Sheltered,
>> regardless of their Location.
>
>/dev/joe
>Still reading the rules

I knew I didn't need to do this, but I find it so much more fun to stay in
character.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:33:37 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: beeline to the Bomb Shelter 

>Another thought: I am glad to see that Acka is supportive of the
>Patch joining Internomic, but why does Prop. 318 drop 'Imp. Nomic 14'
>from the list?

Imperial Nomic 18 self-destructed and it's liason, Pascal (who is
occasionaly a player here), submitted a proposal to remove it from
Internomic.  That proposal passed, but P317 is a mistake in which the name
of Imp. 14 is readded to the rules.  It was modified from an old copy of
the rule set, and I neglected to remove Imp 14 before submitting.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:35:24 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Victorious Eggplant 

>Phil Ackley wrote:
>
>> Brings up a funny point though -- conservation of nomic mass :)
>
>Yes, what if they give it back?  :)
>
>I was hoping snowgod would do the legal research on this one, I'm not
>really sure, but I do not think the Trinket can leave our game state,
>unless the rules specify a procedure for it doing so.
>
>Malenkai
>Financier

I am currently doing the legal research on this, and if I can find enough
conjecture to support my claim I wil submit a CFJ.  I do not think any rule
provides for a trinket leaving our game state, but there is one possible
loophole that might allow.

We'll see.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:39:06 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas 

>On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>
>> Hoepfully the president will declare a holiday over part of thisupcoming
>> period, which is a real-life vacation for many of our players.
>>
>> /dev/joe
>>
>How many players are going to be away for Christmas?
>
>A Holiday of a few days might be in order.
>
>Niccolo Flychuck

I will be here and in contact for christams, but am not opposed to a Holiday.

snowgod
ex-president and declarer of Holidays.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 00:40:03 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas 

>Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
>>
>> > Hoepfully the president will declare a holiday over part of thisupcoming
>> > period, which is a real-life vacation for many of our players.
>
>> How many players are going to be away for Christmas?
>>
>> A Holiday of a few days might be in order.
>
>5 of them have already gone on vacation, as you should be keeping track of
>as part of your other jobs.

:(  grumpy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:05:00 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Official - Registrar

I am anouncing my inent to resign from the Office of Registrar.
I have several other Offices now, including the Office of President, which
at times may be called upon to perfom other roles in an acting capacity.
Therefore I am requsting the President to hold a nomination for the Office
of Registrar.

Niccolo Flychuck
Registrar

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:06:16 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Official - nomination fpr Registrar

I am anouncing the begining of the nomination period for the Office of
Registrar.

Niccolo Flychuck
President

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 14:14:17 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Holiday

I am anouncing a Holiday due to the Christams season during which many
players may or may not be in touch with Ackanomic.

The Holiday will start on Dec. 24 07:00 OAT (Official Ackanomic Time) and
will have a duration of 6 days.

This should overlap to a degree most of the peronal RL holidays of various
players.

Niccolo Flychuck
President

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:28:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auction

> I call for a public auction on whatever it is we're auctioning today.  The
> auction ends three days hence.

Oo! I bid A$15 for whatever it is we're auctioning today!

b

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:21:04 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hi Ho Hi Ho its off to the Bomb Shelter I go!

Liking to make it a close thing, I am going to the bomb shelter with
less than an hour to go.

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:29:17 -0600
From: john duncan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Christmas

> A Holiday for the entire duration of Christams would be too long.
> I was thinking starting it on 24th, for a duration of 5-6 days
> (this is not an anouncement yet - just putting my finger to the pulse)
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

I will still be around, but will not have as much time as I would like.
A holiday between Dec 24 and Jan 2 would be a good idea.

Lestrade

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:06:00 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Super-User)
Subject: Acka: *ping* 

Today is Saturday, the 21st day of December, in the Year of Our Lord 1996,
and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today.
Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 10 times.

Malenkai
Scholar of *ping*

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:18:20 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: What is how big and how to say it.

John Martin Lotz wrote:

> One omnibus package to amend each rule, or a single rulethat adds the
> attribute to each item?

Generally you add a clause that says all entities whose size is not
specified have size of '...'.  Then you would add sizes over time
to where the entities are defined.

Another thing you should do beforehand is decide what happens if an
overcapacity is detected.  I would make everything size 0 or 1 to start
with, and work from there.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:20:35 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: Official - nomination fpr Registrar

Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> I am anouncing the begining of the nomination period for the Office of
> Registrar.

Note that due to the announced holiday, this nomination period will
end December 30th, 7:06 EST.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:33:54 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Silver Moon

Guy Fawkes Boolean Tic-Tac-Toe analysis wins the silver moon.  Guy
is required to make an acceptance speech not to exceed 10,000 words,
and the material should be noted with the award on the page.  The
voting was:

Tic-Tac-Toe (3)
- ---------------
Guy Fawkes
Habeous Corpus
snowgod

Party Chess Ballad (2)
- ---------------------
fnord
Niccolo Flychuck

Gaoler Poem (1)
- ---------------
Malenkai

Guy Fawkes +75 +silver moon

Count Tabula

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:46:56 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Ghost

For anyone wishing to amuse themselves during the long holiday, I
will referee a game of Ghost.  Anyone who responds to this by
monday 18:00 EST will be signed up.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 15:24:45 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1586

> > This proposal creates a unique, non-named, tradeable entity called the
> > Birdhose in Your Soul.
> This 'non-named' send me looking for the difference between named
> and non-named entities.  Apparently, the difference is that nameless
> entities can own other things, but named entities can't.
	That's not exactly what I was going for, but that's part of it.  
Having a name means you have your own identity.  Any two nameless 
entities of the same type are interchangeable.
	Sanely, all unique entities should be named.  Otherwise, I could 
create a Trinket named the Birdhose in Your Sole.

> Looking through the ruleset, I found several things that are 'nameless',
> such as PFBonds, Bond Options, Blue Crosses and associated medals, 
> Goose Eggs, and AckaDollars (though only through inference).  Also,
> by default entites are nameless (so the above 'non-named' declaration
> may not have been necessary).
	These things definitely need to be nameless.  What that means is
they're more or less indistinguishable (although Blue Crosses are
engraved, and Bond Options are labelled, for example.)
	Ackadollars are nameless because each Ackadollar is 
indistinguishable from all others.  They don't have individual names.
	If you have eighty A$ and you want to trade 20 of them to Bob, 
you don't have to specify *which* A$ you are trading.  Because they're 
all the same.  Indistinguishable.  Nameless.
	One Goose Egg is just as good as another.  

> Would there be a better name to call these things, other than 'nameless'?
> I get confused, mainly because if they are nameless, why do they have
> names by which we call them?
	Tough one.  My computer, for example, is nameless.  If someone 
traded me another computer of the same type, I'd be perfectly happy with 
the new one, because two computers of this type are pretty much 
indistinguishable.  However, there is something that I call it... I call 
it "my computer."  Just like I can call my Victory Eggplant (where did it 
go?  it was here a minute ago) "my Victory Eggplant" even though *this* 
*particular* Eggplant doesn't have a name of its own.

	I hope that made things a little clearer.  Gotta run.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 16:33:01 -0600 (CST)
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Bomb Shelter 

>> I beat a hasty retreat to the bomb shelter, still waiting to see the outcome
>> of my duel.
>
>You don't need to do this.

But isn't fun?

>>From rule 1253:
>> If a Bomb Shelter exists, all players are Sheltered,
>> regardless of their Location.
>
>/dev/joe
>Still reading the rules

Oh... you didn't need to tell us. The rules don't _require_ you to.
But thanks.

Calvin N Hobbes
well aware of the rules

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:40:22 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Phoebe (Malenkai)

Mohammed did not report what Phoebe said.  Robert Sevin has found her
matchbox.

Dec 21 18:43 EST: -3 Mohammed: did not report what Phoebe said

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:51:26 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Lantern:  thought

Jason Orendorff wrote:

> In any case, if I end up feeling like YORL is inappropriate for a
> Game/Contest (in the sense of Niccolo's framework for Games and Contests,
> that is), the next draft of the rules will be a little more lenient about
> who can play.  Comments on the game so far are much appreciated.  I
> assure you I will hang on every word.

I actually think YORL would make a good G&C game, although perhaps all
G&G games should be played on on a "game" forum that players can
choose to unsubscribe from.

For one, I would like to build our G&C library up as much as possible
so perhaps we can build games of games based on some ideas I have had
previously.  I have also had some ideas where the story elements are
acka-entities, or points are awarded for other players guessing the
card played from the text of the story, or the cards or text of the
story are clues for treasures, etc.  In other words, I find the structure
has room for expansion in an nomicky kind of way.

Besides, its fun to just read them.  

Malenkai
sharing my YORL thoughts

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 18:50:12 -0800
From: [email-masked] (John Martin Lotz)
Subject: Ghost

I would like to play in Malenkai's Ghost game.

It should be an interesting first time experience

Jammer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:06:11 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Phoebe (Robert Sevin)

Malenkai wrote:
> 
> Mohammed did not report what Phoebe said.  Robert Sevin has found her
> matchbox.

sorry, wrong subject line.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:26:54 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Bomb Shelter 

>>>From rule 1253:
>>> If a Bomb Shelter exists, all players are Sheltered,
>>> regardless of their Location.
>Oh... you didn't need to tell us. The rules don't _require_ you to.
>But thanks.

I am glad he is reading the rules... I know I am not nearly as knowledgable
about the rules as I once was (and should be!), and it is very comforting to
know that /dev/joe is keeping up with them. I am not trying to lash out at
you, CnH, it just seemed like some people were upset with /dev/joe about
this comment, and others that displayed his knowledge of the rules... Lest
we forget, the heart of this game is it's rules, and I for one wish to thank
/dev/joe and all of the others out there who keep up with the rules and help
keep the game running. Good job!

Robert Sevin
who, like CnH (and others, I imagine) enjoys making creative proposals and
letting others edit them to work well with the current rules.

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #416
*******************************