Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #410
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest     Wednesday, December 18 1996     Volume 01 : Number 410

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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:35:12 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Lestrade - The forgotten man 

>>
>> Snowgod is still forgetting to list Lestrade in the not-yet-active part of
>> the vote reports.
>>
>I am turning on the lamp and foghorn in my lighthouse so snowgod won't
>forget me.:)
>
>Lestrade

I apologize.  I have your votesd noted, so I wouldn't have forgotten you
forever :)  I'll get you on the not yet active list tonight though.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:41:04 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: My House 

>>To aid in your cause, snowgod, I will purchase a pair of wings from the
>Ackanomic Institute of Genetic Replication.  If you gather two others
>who have wings, I will gladly aid in your plight.
>
>fnord -100 wings mutation
>(I think that's the right debit notation)

I thank fnord most kindly, and I wonder who else among us wants to be a flyboy?

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:42:11 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Common Sense Report 113 

CSR 113

Amend R 593 to append the following text at the end of the rule:

{{Amend the Blueprint for "Gravitational Monopole" to replace
'Magnetic' with 'Gravitational' and to replace all misspellings of
'Gravitational' with its proper spelling in the title and text of the
Blueprint}}.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:51:52 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Score Report + Etc. 

>Proposal scoring 1511-1534 (note, I always ignore snowgod's points in his
>  vote reports, and just look at the voting results, because snowgod has
>  been wrong often):
>

I object to the tone of this, though I understand the meaning.  Just for
the record, I am not doing the job of Tabulator because I enjoy it, or even
because I want to do it.  I am doing the Tabulator bit becuase no one else
wants the job and I'm not going to let the game flounder.

I'm sure there are players that could do a better job at it than I can,
that could produce more acurrate results on a tighter schedule, and that
wouldn't forget the little things... But they don't want the job.

That's not to that I mind being Tabulator.  I don't.  It's perfectly all
right with me, so long as everyone accept that I have a real-life to attend
to also, and I am not able to put all of my resources behind the act of
tabulating.

snowgod
sorry, i'm in a bad mood.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 04:30:18 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Score Report + Etc. 

>I object to the tone of this, though I understand the meaning.  Just for
>the record, I am not doing the job of Tabulator because I enjoy it, or even
>because I want to do it.  I am doing the Tabulator bit becuase no one else
>wants the job and I'm not going to let the game flounder.

snowgod, you are doing a great job and we all appreciate it... I was
Tabulator once, and I know it is no small amount of work...

Robert Sevin, who may or may not be...
Wearing a Silly Vacation Hat

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:52:12 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: new players (mentors: Malenkai, snowgod

We have two new players 
John Bruce Coifman 
[email-masked]
Ackanomic name  BuzzBee

Malenkai has ben chosen as eir mentor
When he requested to join he sent a very detailed which covered more than
just the poll question. With his permission, I am including it here:
Nicolo Flychuck
OFFICE OF THE REGISTRAR
ACKANOMICLAND

Dear Nicolo:

Greetings.  I have been browsing the Acka web pages for some time and
would love to join your game.  Please register me to play.

In real life, I am a lawyer in Columbia, Missouri.  After reading Peter
Suber's articles, I help charter Pumpkin Patch Nomic one year ago.  We
have played with about 7-12 active players during that time, with only a
two month period of relative inactivity during the summer.  I served as
first Pumpkin (similar to a Speaker or President), and now serve as
Pumpkin Patch Squash (keeper of the point tally and other duties).  The
PPN Rules may be found at
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~drwest/EdRules.html

The second new player is Aaron Morris
[email-masked]
Ackanomic name G. Peefalt

snowgod has been chosen as eir mentor

Niccolo Flychuck
Registrar

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:13:12 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Gravitational Monopole

I am initiating the auction for the Gravitational Monopole.  It looks
like all the bugs are worked out.  The auction will be over before
the Tornado hits, in time to use it to reattach dangling houses.

It could be a much cheaper solution than wings, but who knows, given
the production problems, it could break if not used properly.  You 
could set up a little business reattaching people's houses.

This is a public auction, and will end 3 days from now.  Send any bids
to the public forum.

Chief Cheese

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 07:17:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Benedictions for all!

Two days hence, I will be going on Vacation.  However, before then, for 
the low, low "tithe" of A$10, I will be willing to bless any dangling 
house and prevent it from being ripped off in the coming Tornado.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:17:38 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: new players (mentors: Malenkai, snowgod

Uri Bruck wrote:
 
> We have two new players
> John Bruce Coifman
> [email-masked]
> Ackanomic name  BuzzBee
> 
> Malenkai has ben chosen as eir mentor

Welcome to the game!  Your mentor's e-mail address is [email-masked].
e-mail me if you have any questions.

> The second new player is Aaron Morris
> [email-masked]
> Ackanomic name G. Peefalt
> 
> snowgod has been chosen as eir mentor

Welcome to the game as well!  Your mentor's e-mail address is
[email-masked].

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:31:55 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka: Niccolo Flychuck for President

>I am hereby creating, one Niccolo Flychuck Election Scarf in the
>possession of each and every player.  Each Election Scarf is red and blue,
>and has the name of its owner embroidered in small charteuse letters.
>Each Scarf has the following writing on it in big blazing white letters:
>"The only real choice - Niccolo Flychuck"

I am now wearing my very own official Niccolo Flychuck Election Scarf.
I don't know about Ackanomic, but in RL its cold and getting colder.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:37:19 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Gravitational Monopole

>I am initiating the auction for the Gravitational Monopole.  It looks
>like all the bugs are worked out.  The auction will be over before
>the Tornado hits, in time to use it to reattach dangling houses.

>This is a public auction, and will end 3 days from now.  Send any bids
>to the public forum.

I bid A$ 30 for the Gravitational Monopole.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:03:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: acka: Niccolo Flychuck for President

> I am hereby creating, one Niccolo Flychuck Election Scarf in the
> possession of each and every player.  Each Election Scarf is red and blue,
> and has the name of its owner embroidered in small charteuse letters.
> Each Scarf has the following writing on it in big blazing white letters:
> "The only real choice - Niccolo Flychuck"

Red, blue, and chartreuse? I'm sorry, but this will clash with what
I'm currently wearing. I do thank you for the gift, however, and will
keep it with my other political mementoes.

b

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:09:01 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka:  Proposals 1555 and 1561

>
>> Proposal 1555
>> Minor Ownership Clarifications
>> ThinMan (John Bollinger)
>	[...]
>> That nameless entities may not own anything is currently
>> parenthetical, and hence non-binding.
>	Is it true in general that parenthetical statements are
>non-binding?  Often I put ()s around rule/proposal text that is
>technically necessary but merely annoying from a stylistic point of
>view.

I apologize for the confusion, much of it having been mine.  The rules
do not render parenthesized text non-binding.  On the other hand,
although I have not consulted a grammar or style guide about it, I
think that the status of parenthesized comments is not entirely clear,
and I prefer to avoid using it for material intended to be regulatory.
>
>> 2) Append the following quotation-mark-delimited text to end of the
>> third paragraph: "Unownable entities are never owned by anything."
>	Oh, for crying out loud.  How explicit does one have to be?  :o)

We have had this discussion before, and I believe that the result was
"it depends."  When English words are adopted into Ackaspeak and given
Acka-specific meanings, it may relieve us of any obligation to interpret
them according to their English-language definitions.  We have had
CFJs on the matter, which I am too lazy to look up right now.  In any
particular case, it would probably still be a matter of Judgement.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 08:55:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auctions

> If you have any suggestions for the rewrite, e-mail me.  I intend the
> rewrite to be rather straightforward.  One thing I never liked about
> the original R 1023, that has not changed, is the Chief Cheese selection
> procedure.  Any ideas, without adding complication or delay to the system?
	Sure.  Have the person who calls for the Auction do it.  If it is 
unclear who called the auction, or if it is called by the rules, have the 
Financier do it.  (I believe Gadget auctions are called by Scientists, 
and Otzma auctions are called by the Runemaker.)

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:04:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Towers Climbing

> About 5/8 of the way up I stop.  I found what I was loking for.  Malenkai's
> message announcing the winner of the current presidential elections!  I
> stop.  I gaze.  I grin.
	I thought future messages were unreadable in the tower.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:51:21 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Fictionary: Time to vote

Alright, Bluffers, I have all the definitions.  Congratulations to Guy
Fawkes, who sent a correct definition.  Guy receives 4 gamepoints, and
sits out the remainder of the round.  The definitions are, in no
particular order:

1. A wood or stone image of an Indonesian god

2. A Central and So. American plant (Carludovica palmata) resembling
   a palm

3. A ceremonial polynesian wedding dance

4. A festive dance originating in colonial Jamaica

5. A spicy pepper grown primarily in Ecuador

6. A small, hairless dog, native to eastern Mongolia

Send your votes to the list.

ThinMan
Braniac III

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 06:37:01 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary: Time to vote 

>Alright, Bluffers, I have all the definitions.  Congratulations to Guy
>Fawkes, who sent a correct definition.  Guy receives 4 gamepoints, and
>sits out the remainder of the round.  The definitions are, in no
>particular order:

>2. A Central and So. American plant (Carludovica palmata) resembling
>   a palm

I vote for number 2

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:11:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1568

> Proposal 1568 -- Sun 15 Dec 18:01 CST 1996
> The Star
> /dev/joe (Joseph DeVincentis)
	Tough decision, but I decided to go with Present on this one.  
I'm sorta blah on the idea of more random entities running around.
	I might be persuaded to change my vote, though; anyone hav 
ethoughts to share?

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 12:56:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary: Time to vote

I vote for #6:

> 6. A small, hairless dog, native to eastern Mongolia

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:38:01 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Super-User)
Subject: Acka: *ping* 

Today is Tuesday, the 17th day of December, in the Year of Our Lord 1996,
and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today.
Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 7 times.

Malenkai
Scholar of *ping*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 15:12:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma

> > 	My main objection to the limits is that they represent a big, 
> > unnecessary glob of semantic goo in the rule set.
> You gonna have to be more specific. Each limit is set by a single
> sentence.
> The only thing I can think you are reffering to is the process of
> creation of Otzma Cards, which sets the probabilty of creating specific
> Otzma Cards according to the limits imposed elsewhere, and also provides
> for a case where there are no limits. That, however, is not an essntial
> part of limiting the number of Cards of any type. 
	That's what I meant.
	New paradigm for me:  no time to write mail?  Write one short 
cryptic sentence and your adversary will spell out the rest of your 
argument for you.  :o)
	Limits provide no benefits that Malenkai's suggestion would not 
provide better, with fewer holes and less verbage.

thanks for caring enough to reply to my previous post, uri  :o)
- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:55:11 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Otzma

On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Jason Orendorff wrote:

> > > 	My main objection to the limits is that they represent a big, 
> > > unnecessary glob of semantic goo in the rule set.
> > You gonna have to be more specific. Each limit is set by a single
> > sentence.
> > The only thing I can think you are reffering tois the process of
> > creation of Otzma Cards, which sets the probabilty of creating specific
> > Otzma Cards according to the limits imposed elsewhere, and also provides
> > for a case where there are no limits. That, however, is not an essntial
> > part oflimiting the number of Cards of any type. 
> 	That's what I meant.
> 	New paradigm for me:  no time to write mail?  Write one short 
> cryptic sentence and your adversary will spell out the rest of your 
> argument for you.  :o)
> 	Limits provide no benefits that Malenkai's suggestion would not 
> provide better, with fewer holes and less verbage.

Malenkai's class system would work very well as a replacement for
explicitly setting numerical limits, and could potentially one central
place where the definitions of the classes could be changed to respond to
ackanomic's needs in the future. I agree that they are a good replacement
for the current limits.
As I pointed out above, the probabilities do not set the limits, but are
rather set by them. To me they make a lot of sense for several reasons. 
Suppose for now we put aside the provisions that allow manipulation of
probabilities by use of Swingpoints or RuneMaker's probability points.

Suppose we do away with probabilities altogether, and let the RuneMaker
choose the type for all Otzma Cards he creates.
The class rarity definitions lose all sense. The RuneMaker can make a
Tornado Card on Every Otzma day, collaborate with a partner so that one of
them would purchase it, using it, and then creating another one, because
it does not exceed the limit.  

Malenkai's suggestion would be even more suitable for setting the
probabilities than it would for setting the limits, because that is what
they actually define. 
The Probabilistic method of determining the type of Otzma Card also
provides hooks by which other game elements can effect the choice of type.
Consider "Newton, Apples and Parties" . These are Tradeable rewards for
PartyChess performance, which are not readily abusable as per Malenkai's
Gambit.
The RuneMaker is not a complete drone either in this system. E has the
choice of first Card, or eir own means of manipulating the probabilities
in a limited way. I grant that the system is not simple. It has several
interacting elements. I grant you that some aspects of it can be
simplified.  Robbing it of those elements would rob it of some properties
I consider significant, some of which are - interaction with other
aspects of the game and the game state.  I don't want to make it "just
like Gadgets" in the interest of standardization. Not because there is
something wrong with Gadgets, but because I do not see any reason to
duplicate it. It makes no sense to have two identical systems.

Malenkai's suggestion has given me some ideas for simplification.
Perhaps we could all discuss this a bit longer before making any radical
changes.

> 
> thanks for caring enough to reply to my previous post, uri  :o)
> --Mohammed
>
You're welcome. 
I enjoy discussion with you.

Niccolo Flychuck

Is that a scarf you're wearing ?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:00:27 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fictionary: Time to vote

Bollinger, John C. wrote:

> 5. A spicy pepper grown primarily in Ecuador

I vote for #5.

Malenkai
bluffer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:06:23 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: President

Niccolo Flychuck has been elected president.  Note that Niccolo, or his
appointee, becomes acting CSRR.  Furthermore, he will become acting 
Promoter when Guy Fawkes goes on vacation.  I have volunteered
for Promoter on a temporary basis, if Niccolo doesn't want to do it.

Here is the final vote tally:

Niccolo Flychuck (7)
- --------------------
Niccolo Flychuck
Lestrade
ThinMan
/dev/joe
Guy Fawkes
Robert Sevin
breadbox

[snowgod also indicated a vote for Niccolo, but it was late and 
did not count]

breadbox (3)
- -----------
Swann
Bascule
Mohammed

Robert Sevin (2)
- ---------------
Techno
Malenkai

Count Tabula

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:08:51 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: new players 

Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> We have two new players
> John Bruce Coifman
> [email-masked]
> Ackanomic name  BuzzBee

> The second new player is Aaron Morris
> [email-masked]
> Ackanomic name G. Peefalt

Each new player receives A$593 starting cash.

Malenkai
Financier

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 04:12:48 +0000
From: "Matt" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Benedictions for all!

> Two days hence, I will be going on Vacation.  However, before then, for 
> the low, low "tithe" of A$10, I will be willing to bless any dangling 
> house and prevent it from being ripped off in the coming Tornado.
> 
> Guy Fawkes

Could you bless my house, Guy? I've been a little slack in church 
attendance recently :)

Bascule -10
Guy Fawkes +10

Bascule

 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:55:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: new players

> 
> Uri Bruck wrote:
> > 
> > We have two new players
> > John Bruce Coifman
> > [email-masked]
> > Ackanomic name  BuzzBee
> 
> > The second new player is Aaron Morris
> > [email-masked]
> > Ackanomic name G. Peefalt
> 
> Each new player receives A$593 starting cash.
> 
> Malenkai
> Financier

Better revise that figure.  Rule 1539 added

      Each player who has not previously been granted A$ by application
      of this rule shall be granted the lesser of A$900, or the average A$
      balance of all other existing players, from the Treasury.

to rule 665 (later renumbered to 505), and repealed rule 480, where that
statement was before.  Nobody had previously been granted A$ by the
application of that rule, so I think we just voted ourselves A$593 each
from the treasury, and these newcomers get A$900.

Note: I don't think that the renumbering makes it a different rule, but
adding this text to one rule and repealing the old one does make it a
different rule.  Also I note that the text was added before the old
rule was repealed, so for a brief instant there were two rules containing
the statement.

P.S. the rule set will be updated real soon now.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 00:07:46 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: new players

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Better revise that figure.  Rule 1539 added
> 
>       Each player who has not previously been granted A$ by application
>       of this rule shall be granted the lesser of A$900, or the average A$
>       balance of all other existing players, from the Treasury.
> 
> to rule 665 (later renumbered to 505), and repealed rule 480, where that
> statement was before.  Nobody had previously been granted A$ by the
> application of that rule, so I think we just voted ourselves A$593 each
> from the treasury, and these newcomers get A$900.

Actually, won't each player receive a different amount based on the average
of all other players' (with respect to them) balances.  This should
occur silmultaneously, and assuming the granting (or calculation or
whatever) takes a non-zero amount of time, avoid a rather nasty financial
spiral paradox.

Also, the value will be from the time P 1539 was PK, so will be a little
off.  In any case, more work for the Financier :)

Malenkai
Financier
waiting for more R 1539 bugs ;)

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #410
*******************************