Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #406
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest       Sunday, December 15 1996       Volume 01 : Number 406

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:17:57 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Unity Votes 

I may have missed a couple of unity votes while tabulating the results.
For some reason I forgot all about them until P1528.  In any event, It
shouldn't make a difference to any of the proposals on which they were
forgotten.

sorry,
snowgod

delinquent tabulator

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:21:57 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1529 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 16 Players cast votes
12 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

     Proposal 1529 - Fri 6 DEc 7:33 CST 1996
     Otzma Card Type Foul Fowl
     Malenkai (Randy Hall)

Malenkai gains 10 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus
ThinMan                      Vulcan

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Swann
Malenkai                     Harf
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
fnord
Techno
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
breadbox
Vulcan Unity Vote

NO Votes:
- --------
Mohammed                                             +3
mr cwm                       (None Yet)              +3
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf                    +3

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
Airhead                      Harf

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

          Create a new rule, a member of the Otzma Cards Rule
          Suite; its title is "Otzma Card Type Foul Fowl"; its
          text is as follows:

          "
          A Card of this type can only be played in the public
          forum, and may only be played when the Chartreuse Goose
          is Somewhere Else.

          A player who plays this Card shall announce the name of
          an active player. Upon doing so, the Chartreuse Goose is
          transferred to the player named.

          Its Counter-Action: The Chartreuse Goose is transferred
          to the player who played this card.

          There may be at most 5 Otzma Cards of type "Foul Fowl".
          This rule takes precedence over rule 1243.
          "

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:24:48 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1530 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 16 Players cast votes
14 YES votes - 2 NO votes - 1 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

     Proposal 1530 - Fri 6 Dec 7:34 CST 1996
     A little fix to Otzma Days
     Niccolo Flychuck (Uri Bruck)

Niccolo Flychuck gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus
ThinMan                      Vulcan

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Swann
Malenkai                     Harf
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
fnord
Techno
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
breadbox
Vulcan Unity Vote
Mohammed
Robert Sevin                 Harf

NO Votes:
- --------
mr cwm                       (None Yet)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Airhead                      Harf

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

          This is a Modest Proposal.
          In R1369.1 section 4 a replace the text:"since the
          previous Otzma Day" with the text:"since the begining of
          the previous Otzma Day"

          {{[the way the rules stands now, proposals which were
          accepted during the Otzma Day are not counted, or at
          least not unambgiously so.]}}

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:27:40 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1531 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 16 Players cast votes
14 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

     Proposal 1531 - Sat 7 Dec 7:04 CST 1996
     Not a Game at All
     Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

Niccolo Flychuck gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
fnord
Techno
/dev/joe                     Vulcan
breadbox
(None Yet) Unity Vote
Mohammed
Robert Sevin                 Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet)
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
Airhead                      Harf

NO Votes:
- --------
Swann
Malenkai                     Harf
ThinMan                      Vulcan

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

NONE

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

          Create a new rule with text as follows:
          {{The entity Boolean Tic-Tac-Toe is hereby destroyed.
          [The second player can always force a win.]}}

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:36:22 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1531 Passes 

>Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 16 Players cast votes
>14 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
>
>     Proposal 1531 - Sat 7 Dec 7:04 CST 1996
>     Not a Game at All
>     Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
>
>Niccolo Flychuck gains 5 points:

My recors indicate tghat /dev/joe actually abstained on this proposal.  So
the correct tally would be 13 YES, 3 NO, 0 PRESENT, 15 Players cast votes.

snowgod
who wishes he caught these things before he sent them out

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:39:25 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1532 Fails 

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 14 Players cast votes
7 YES votes - 7 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

     Proposal 1532 - Sat 7 Dec 7:04 CST 1996
     In Which Them Bonuses Get With the Harf
     Mohammed (Jason Orendorff)

Mohammed loses 7 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus                               +3

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)      +3

snowgod                      (None Yet)      +3
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan          +3
Techno                                       +3
Mohammed                                     +3
Swann                                        +3

NO Votes:
- --------
breadbox
fnord
Robert Sevin                 Harf
Malenkai                     Harf
ThinMan                      Vulcan
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet)

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

NONE

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence
Airhead                      Harf
/dev/joe                     Vulcan

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:42:44 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1533 Passes 

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 14 Players cast votes
15 YES votes - 0 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal PASSES

     Proposal 1533 - Sat 7 Dec 7:05 CST 1996
     Consistency Is All I Ask!
     Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

Guy Fawkes gains 5 points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus

Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)

snowgod                      (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
Techno
Mohammed
Swann
breadbox
fnord
Robert Sevin                 Harf
Malenkai                     Harf
ThinMan                      Vulcan
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
mr cwm                       (None Yet)
(None Yet) Unity Vote

NO Votes:
- --------
None

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

NONE

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence
Airhead                      Harf
/dev/joe                     Vulcan

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------
          This is a Modest proposal.

          In Rule 1302, replace the string, "The duel starts upon
          the Challenged Player posting his" with, "The duel
          starts upon the Challenged Player's Second posting the".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:48:10 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P1534 FAILS 

[We coulda had tons o' fun had both of these passed :)]

Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 14 Players cast votes
5 YES votes - 7 NO votes - 2 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS

     Proposal 1534 - Sat 7 Dec 7:05 CST 1996
     Where Your Posts Don't Go
     breadbox (Brian Raiter)

Breadbox loses points:

YES Votes:
- ---------

Habeous Corpus                               +3

snowgod                      (None Yet)      +3

Swann                                        +3
Malenkai                     Harf            +3
Calvin N Hobbes              Harf            +3

NO Votes:
- --------
fnord
Mohammed
Techno
mr cwm                       (None Yet)
Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
ThinMan                      Vulcan
Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)

PRESENT Votes:
- -------------

Robert Sevin                 Harf
breadbox

Abstentions:
- -----------

Bascule
Clairence
Airhead                      Harf
/dev/joe                     Vulcan

New Players Who Are Not Yet Active:
- ----------------------------------
Jammer
23 Skidoo

Text of Passed Proposal:
- -----------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 03:18:14 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: I remain 

Due to the failure of P1527, I shall remain on top of Guy Fawkes' tower for
a little bit longer, in hopes of spotting the elusive Brass Monkey.  I had
hoped to see him tonight, but sadly I didn't.

snowgod
guarding Ackanomic from above

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:13:32 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: My House

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> I am looking for volunteers to help re-attach my house before the Tornado.
> Failing that, I am loooking for a priest in good standing to bless my house.
> 
> snowgod

The gravitational monopole will be completed in a couple of hours.  Its
auction will be completed well before the Tornado.

Malenkai
Wizard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:30:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:

> Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
> 9 YES votes - 5 NO votes - 1 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
> 
> Proposal 1514 - Wed 4 Dec 17:35 CST 1996
> I Wonder What Would Happen If...
> Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

This surprises me.  I'm curious what others found objectionable about 
this proposal.  If you voted no, please tell me your reasoning.  It's an 
issue that does need addressed.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:35:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1531 Passes

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:

> Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 16 Players cast votes
> 14 YES votes - 3 NO votes - 0 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
> 
>      Proposal 1531 - Sat 7 Dec 7:04 CST 1996
>      Not a Game at All
>      Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck gains 5 points:

As much as a game proposal would most likely be Niccolo's, this one is 
mine :)  (BTW, it isn't Modest, either).

Guy
appreciates the Tabulator

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:38:46 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: *ping*

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 6 times.

> I would like to buy a magic letter: r

Are there any 'r''s in the Truth???  Hmm...

one
two 
three
four
five
SIX! 'r''s

Its seems like our puzzle solver extraordinaire has gotten a pretty
good deal, less than A$3 per 'r'.  I now remember this much of the
Truth:

IF AND ONLY IF today **r***** *r****** * **** ***** ** *** ***** **r
*r*** **r ****r*, THEN the Machine That Goes *ping* shall go *ping*. 

Malenkai
Scholar of *ping*

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:44:16 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> > Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
> > 9 YES votes - 5 NO votes - 1 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
> >
> > Proposal 1514 - Wed 4 Dec 17:35 CST 1996
> > I Wonder What Would Happen If...
> > Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
> 
> If you voted no, please tell me your reasoning.

I thought it was a band-aid.  If I bid A$50 for a unique Otzma card, then
it is randomly destroyed because of this clause when another was created,
I would not think that was fair.

I would have preferred language like:

"No Otzma Card may be created which exceeds the instance limits specified
by that Otzma Card.  This clause has precedence over all rules."

I find it a more fair and proactive solution, as opposed to a reactive
solution.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 08:49:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Building reattachment commission

I will be going on an extended Vacation on the 19th.  As a priest in good 
standing with the weather gods, I am more than willing to bless any 
houses which may be dangling, if their owners for whatever reason do not 
wish to use the Gravational (sic) Monopole.

Also, it appears that a typo may have rendered Malenkai's good wishes for 
Acka worthless.  The Blueprint for the Gravational Monopole does not 
speak how it may be activated; it does speak of activating something 
called a Magnetic Monpole, but unfortunately such a gadget is undefined.  
Is this typo sufficient to make a difference?

Guy Fawkes 

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> Phil Ackley wrote:
> > 
> > I am looking for volunteers to help re-attach my house before the Tornado.
> > Failing that, I am loooking for a priest in good standing to bless my house.
> > 
> > snowgod
> 
> The gravitational monopole will be completed in a couple of hours.  Its
> auction will be completed well before the Tornado.
> 
> Malenkai
> Wizard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:01:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> I thought it was a band-aid.  If I bid A$50 for a unique Otzma card, then
> it is randomly destroyed because of this clause when another was created,
> I would not think that was fair.
> 
> I would have preferred language like:
> 
> "No Otzma Card may be created which exceeds the instance limits specified
> by that Otzma Card.  This clause has precedence over all rules."
> 
> I find it a more fair and proactive solution, as opposed to a reactive
> solution.

One could make a case that the situation your idea tries to address does 
not need a fix, since the expressed maximum implicitly says no more OC's 
of that type may be created.  Whether or not that is true, a proactive 
solution cannot protect against the situation that led me to write this 
proposal.

Consider this:  The limit for a particular type of OC is 7, and 7 of that 
type exist.  Now consider that for whatever reason, the limit becomes 5.  
A proactive solution cannot help us here; we must react, which is why I 
chose the reactive method.

Even if you insist we would vote against a proposal that would change the 
number to create this effect, it doesn't need a proposal to happen.  
Already, there are Otzma Cards whose maxima are expressed in terms of 
other entities, like the number of Offices of Swinger (which for the PC 
OC's, I think is an excellent idea)  If the cards are at their maximum 
and a political party disbands or a Capital Swinger resigns his office, 
there needs to be a fix to react to this situation; which is what I try 
to address here.

Guy Fawkes 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:00:17 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Building reattachment commission

Guy Fawkes wrote:

> Also, it appears that a typo may have rendered Malenkai's good wishes for
> Acka worthless.  The Blueprint for the Gravational Monopole does not
> speak how it may be activated; it does speak of activating something
> called a Magnetic Monpole, but unfortunately such a gadget is undefined.
> Is this typo sufficient to make a difference?

I depends if you can construe it to be a spelling error, and apply R 451.
My fix to allow rule changes, spelling bee, and CSR to work on blueprints
and G&C entries is not finished yet.

The following CSR will fix the problem in time for the Tornado, though:

Amend R 592 to append the following text at the end of the rule:

{{Amend the Blueprint for "Gravitational Monopole" to replace
'Magnetic' with 'Gravitational' and to replace all misspellings of
'Gravitational' with its proper spelling in the title and text of the
Blueprint}}. 

Sorry for the inconvienence.

Malenkai
frustrated that this was not pointed out sooner by those who saw it

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:07:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Building reattachment commission

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> Malenkai
> frustrated that this was not pointed out sooner by those who saw it

My apologies.  I just now saw it.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:06:54 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

Guy Fawkes wrote:

> Consider this:  The limit for a particular type of OC is 7, and 7 of that
> type exist.  Now consider that for whatever reason, the limit becomes 5.
> A proactive solution cannot help us here; we must react, which is why I
> chose the reactive method.

In this case, I would prefer the excess to be grandfathered and stay
around.  It still would not be fair to destroy them.  I have no problem
with the Otzma Card rule regulating production, but not regulating
maintenance.

An example is my aunt's house, which is in a flood plain.  It was built
in the 1700s.  The township added instance limits a few years ago to
building in that particular flood plain which would prevent that house
from being built today, but they did not come in with a bulldozer and
level it when the rules were changed.

I have issue with your statement that "we must react".  No so, we can
let it be.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:08:49 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Building reattachment commission

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> > Malenkai
> > frustrated that this was not pointed out sooner by those who saw it
> 
> My apologies.  I just now saw it.

No apology needed.  "those who saw it" could have been the null set :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:25:32 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> I thought it was a band-aid.  If I bid A$50 for a unique Otzma card, then
> it is randomly destroyed because of this clause when another was created,
> I would not think that was fair.

The situation Guy Fawkes addresses in a rule could not occur in an Otzma
Day. The probability of creating a Card of a type that already fills its
allowed quota is zero and can't be changed by probability points,
Swingpoints or any thing else.
So the Auction example might not necessarily the one that would spring to
mind.
This really only applies to Otzma Cards that can be created by other
rules.
A sentence like Malenkai suggested would achieve the necessary effect. 
Niccolo Flychuck

 > 
> I would have preferred language like:
> 
> "No Otzma Card may be created which exceeds the instance limits specified
> by that Otzma Card.  This clause has precedence over all rules."
> 
> I find it a morefair and proactive solution, as opposed to a reactive
> solution.
> 
> Malenkai
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 10:29:31 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Processing Chips

Processing Chips are created as follows:

p1513 +4 Guy
p1519 +2/+3, Jammer, depending on whether it was modest
p1526 +3/+4 Guy, depending on whether 'snowgod's disease' is an entity
p1529 +4 Malenkai

Malenkai
Financier

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:46:24 EST 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Fictionary

It has been brought to my attention that my vote in the current round of
Fictionary may not have made it to the public list properly,  so I am
resending it.

I vote for #5 A Greek Orthodox cleric in the second of the major orders.

HC

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 11:46:24 EST 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Trinket

I am creating a Trinket called the Victorious Eggplant.  It is a paper
mache replica of a Victory Egplant,  gilded in 14K gold.  It is worth
A$25.

I am presenting snowgod with the Victorious Eggplant in the hopes e will
present it to the Pumpkin Patch's GRAPE in anticipation of their joining
Internomic and bevcoming part of the larger nomic community.

Habeous Corpus  -25

HC

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:52:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

Malenkai wrote, about Guy Fawkes's plan for getting rid of excess Otzma cards:
> In this case, I would prefer the excess to be grandfathered and stay
> around.  It still would not be fair to destroy them.  I have no problem
> with the Otzma Card rule regulating production, but not regulating
> maintenance.
> 
> An example is my aunt's house, which is in a flood plain.  It was built
> in the 1700s.  The township added instance limits a few years ago to
> building in that particular flood plain which would prevent that house
> from being built today, but they did not come in with a bulldozer and
> level it when the rules were changed.

Oddly enough, I have a great-aunt whose house is in an area which, due to
climate changes and (probably, though of course nobody admits it) other
development in the area, has been flooding often in recent years, and I
just found out recently that her city *is* going to demolish the house
early next year, and others in that area, I believe so that they can clear
a channel for flood waters to drain through.  Of course, they're paying
her enough money to buy another house.

This is another option -- if you must go about randomly destroying Otzma
cards when there somehow become too many, compensate the owners of the
destroyed cards with some A$.  Deciding how much may not be easy, though.
Fix the production rule(s) so that otzma cards cannot be created in excess
of the limits, if this is not already so, so that the only time too many
otzma cards of a type can exist is when the limits change.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:07:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1512 Passes

snowgod wrote:
> 
> 
> 

Please re-send the votes for proposal 1512; the above is all I received.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:00:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

> 
> Quorum achieved: 18 Eligible voters - 15 Players cast votes
> 9 YES votes - 5 NO votes - 1 PRESENT votes - Proposal FAILS
> 
> Proposal 1514 - Wed 4 Dec 17:35 CST 1996
> I Wonder What Would Happen If...
> Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
> 
> Guy Fawkes loses 7 points:
> 
> YES Votes:
> ---------
> 
> Guy Fawkes                   (None Yet)
> Techno
> ThinMan                      Vulcan
> /dev/joe                     Vulcan
> Swann
> fnord
> Niccolo Flychuck             Vulcan
> Mohammed
> Calvin N Hobbes              Harf
> 
> NO Votes:
> --------
> Malenkai                     Harf
> mr cwm                       (None Yet)
> Airhead                      Harf
> snowgod                      (None Yet)
> Habeous Corpus

Contrary to snowgod's statement, the missing Vulcan unity vote on
this proposal is sufficient to make it pass, 10-5.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:57:38 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Brass Monkey, that funky monkey

There was a Chrome Streak containing proposals from
P1512 to 1524 broken when P1525 was rejected.
The Brass Monkey joined snowgod atop Guy Fawkes's tower and proclaimed:
  "The makers of the Chrome Streak shall be awarded 5 bonus points!"

Note that some of the results came out slightly out of order, and this
matters for the new Chrome Streak Rule, but the ends of this streak
are in the proper order.  P1516 and P1523 were retracted, but the fixed
rule skips over them.

The authors were:
Guy Fawkes: 1512m, 1513, 1514m, 1517m, 1515
/dev/joe: 1518
Jammer: 1519
Mohammed: 1521m, 1522, 1524m
ThinMan: 1520m

As I commented on the last time we almost had 10 consecutive proposals
accepted, we need to figure out if Modesty affects the points awarded
when a Chrome Streak ends.  There are 3 possible cases, 2 of which now
have the same result since the Consecutive Passages rule was amended:
1. Modesty halves these points.
2. Modesty does not affect these points, because they aren't a *direct*
   result of authoring a proposal (it depends on other proposals too)
3. Modesty does not affect these points, because it only affects points
   scored at the time the proposal is accepted -- one interpretation of
     "Whenever a Modest Proposal is adopted, the number of points scored
      by its author as a direct result of authoring an adopted proposal
      shall be half the number of points they would otherwise have scored
      (rounded down)."

Until it is decided otherwise, I will compute Mohammed's and ThinMan's
scores assuming modesty does not affect these points, since 2 out of
the 3 reasons go that way. :-)  Guy Fawkes had enough proposals in the
streak to reach the 15 point limit, even if modesty does reduce them.

If there's no clear opinion on this, I will submit a CFJ.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:07:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1526 Passes

> 
> 
> 

We need the votes for 1526 too, especially these because scoring
depends on them (the other one was modest so it didn't matter).

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:07:59 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Brass Monkey, that funky monkey

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
 
> There was a Chrome Streak containing proposals from
> P1512 to 1524 broken when P1525 was rejected.

> 2. Modesty does not affect these points, because they aren't a *direct*
>    result of authoring a proposal (it depends on other proposals too)
> 3. Modesty does not affect these points, because it only affects points
>    scored at the time the proposal is accepted -- one interpretation of
>      "Whenever a Modest Proposal is adopted, the number of points scored
>       by its author as a direct result of authoring an adopted proposal
>       shall be half the number of points they would otherwise have scored
>       (rounded down)."

My opinion, and I'm not sure if it is clear ;), is that modesty does not
affect the points.  Both 2 and 3 work for me.  [don't forget the newbie
scoring rules on some of the other proposals :)]

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:21:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official: Expertise

The senate has confirmed snowgod's Expert status on the subject of
Internomic matters.

breadbox
senator, seat sinecure 33

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 13:24:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official: Expertise

The senate has confirmed Malenkai's expert status in the following
subjects: Proposals and Rule Changes; the Judicial System, including
Criminal Justice; Offices; and Financial Matters, including Entities.

breadbox
senator, seat sinecure 33

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:06:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Wanted: Vending Machine

I would like to purchase one of the recently-devalued (by proposal 1524,
which changed the blueprint to make half the income from a vending machine
go to the treasury) Vending Machines.

I am offering A$65 for a Vending Machine to the first player to
publicly accept this offer.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 01:00:14 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Presidential Debate

1) In the cast that the senate is unable to reach a decision on an
Internomic Proposal, it is the Duty of the president to inform the
Ambassador how to vote.  Do you stay informed of internomic news?
Would you be willing to work with the Ambassador when your job requires
it?

I try to stay up to date on internomic news. I have been on the internomic
mailing list ever since it was created.  I am not only willing, but am
already wroking with the Ambassador on some idead that will enhance the
ties between nomic and other internomic members. I see internomic as a
chance to develop not just internomic relations, but also cross-nomic
relations.  Extending G&C to other nomics could be the first small step in
creating such relations.  I also intend to work closely with the Senate on
any other matter in which they Senators might wish to confer with me.
If I am elected, I will always be here for any player who wishes to
consult with me.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------

2) What makes you the harfiest candidate for the Presidency?

Consider the facts. I have lost to elections to snowgod, yet I persist in
running again for this Office, this third time with the same snowgod as my
campaign manager. I am not wearing any Prosthetic Forehead at the moment
yet on my clothes I have a sticker from the previous elections that says
"Pay no attention to my Prosthetic Forehead - Niccolo Flychuck for
President"
I have always attempted to increase fun in ackanomic. While that's not
strictly Harf, it's certainly related. 
But most of all, I respond to nearly every issue, expert or novice - I am
undoubtedly opinionad. Is that Harfy? I don't know, but hey, even the Harf
Meister can't define Harf - in fact, I believe that if e could, e could
not have been Harf Meister, but that's a rather more philosophical issue.
But I digre. Now, what was that question again?

- --------------------------------------------------

3) Please comment clearly and unambigiously on the shape of the Earth.
Most of us agree it is round.  Do you have the guts to take that stand?

This rather begs the question, doesn't it? In an explicitly anonymous
medium, I am asked to have the guts to agree with 'most of us'.  Who
exactly is 'us'?  Moderator, will you take down the name of that player
and put it on your little list? Done. Thankyou. Once that's taken care off
I assure you the world will be in much better shape than it is now.

I firmly believe that the shape of the Earth will soon be evident to us.
Is less than one week we are expecting a Tornado. While most Players will
hopefully shelter themselves in a bomb shelter, I expect some selected
acka entities, some of which might not have revealed themselves to us yet,
to risk their very existence while collecting data about the Tornado. That
Data will later be correlated with observations taken from Mount Seleya,
and other findings, and, I am told, might give us more information about
the nature of the world we live in.
As you see, I find the matter of the shape of the earth a significant
matter indeed.

- ----------------------------------------------------------

4) Past campaigns have focused on the issue of Crime.  As president,
how would you deal with Presidential Pardons?  Would you be willing
to exchange pardons in return for politcal favors?

The Presidential Pardon is a very powerful privilege given to the
President, and as such, it should be used with care. The use of such power
should never be seen as criticism on the Justice system. At times it is
appropriate to administer punishment, and at times it is appropriate to
give Pardons. As for the second part of the question,  believe that
replying yes or no would implicitly commit me to make such a trade. Every
case must judged on its own merits and I can hardy comit myself to Pardon
a player on a crime that hasn't been comitted yet.

- ----------------------------------------------------

5) Are you Strange?     
I find this question rather odd, from either the subjective or the
objective viewpoint.
Subjectively' I do not believe it is possible for one to consider oneeself
strange, since the yard stick by which we measure others is none other
than ourselves. One can hardly consider oneself objectively strange, since
such a feeling could only come from accepting the observations of others,
and thus would always run counter to one's intuition, which is that one is
not strange after all.

Therefore the only answer I can give:
I am not Strange, but this may not necessarily be true.

- ----------------------------------------------------
6) Do you feel that Organizations, such as Parties, Churhces, etc. should
have a larger role in Ackanomic, perhaps a smaller role. What do you
think could be done in order to increase/decrease the roles of
Organizations in the game?

I thinnk that an important distinction should be made here between two
different concepts, and that is 'role' and 'power'. A role doesn't mean
just having more votes. The Synod, should it ever be in session, would
have a central economic role in Ackanomic. Parties, Churches, and other
potential Organizations can have a larger role in various aspects of the
game.  I thing that some cross nomic interaction could be faciliatied
through Organizations. 
I don;t think that a simple yes or no answer can be given to this
question.
In a small nomic, perhaps there is very little room for such structure.
In a larger nomic, they could serve many useful purposes. Many fascinating
interactions already occur in Ackanomic with the basic structure we have
now.  Anyone who has been in Ackanomic during the Nobs/Markovian debate
could see that Organizations carved out their own niches, and created a
role, out of what might have started as chaotic. This shows that as the
population grows, it naturally tends to organize itself in such
structures.
The Organiztions and Institutions rules are merely basic molds into which
such structures can flow.  They do not enforce structure, they enhance it,
and in the process enrich Ackanomic.

I will promote usisng Orgnaizational and Institutioanl structionres as
mediators in cross nomic relations.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------
7) Do you consider Harf an important element of the game? Can we count on
you to be a Harfy President?

I consider Fun to be important. YOu can count on me to be a noticeable
President, and a visible President. Either through my duties, and roles,
or, when I lack those, through good fun and perhaps even Harf.
Harf is important, mostly because it's such an elusive concept. Elusive
concepts are always important, even if only for the sake of their
eleusiveness. If wew were suddenly to figure out a central elusive concept
such as Harf, we might be dissapointed with what we find, that is why I
consider I Harf, by its very Harfy nature to be important.

- ------------------------------------------------------

8) Should it be discovered that our conecpts of some aspects of the
physics are different than what we currently believe them, how would you
handle the impact on Acka's traditions and collective psyche?

I believe that the collective conciousness of Ackanomic has grown strong
enough to withstand such blows. We have witnessed many changes in
Acknaomi. Should such a thing happen, we may be shocked at first, we might
walk around the streets of Ackanomic with our head down, or up to the
ground, whichever the case may be, but soon enough we'll bounce right
back, what ever shape we may bouncing upon, and get on with the business
at hand, which is, undoubtedly, having a lot of fun.

Niccolo Flychuck
Running for President

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:16:33 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposals without votes and other things 

I have to be to work in about 20 minutes, but will release the correct
votes for P1512 and P1526 as sswon as i return.  Also, sorry about missing
that Unity vote...

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:46:03 -0600
From: "Eric L. Freeman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1514 Fails

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> Malenkai wrote, about Guy Fawkes's plan for getting rid of excess Otzma cards:
> > In this case, I would prefer the excess to be grandfathered and stay
> > around.  It still would not be fair to destroy them.  I have no problem
> > with the Otzma Card rule regulating production, but not regulating
> > maintenance.
> >
> > An example is my aunt's house, which is in a flood plain.  It was built
> > in the 1700s.  The township added instance limits a few years ago to
> > building in that particular flood plain which would prevent that house
> > from being built today, but they did not come in with a bulldozer and
> > level it when the rules were changed.
> 
> Oddly enough, I have a great-aunt whose house is in an area which, due to
> climate changes and (probably, though of course nobody admits it) other
> development in the area, has been flooding often in recent years, and I
> just found out recently that her city *is* going to demolish the house
> early next year, and others in that area, I believe so that they can clear
> a channel for flood waters to drain through.  Of course, they're paying
> her enough money to buy another house.
> 
> This is another option -- if you must go about randomly destroying Otzma
> cards when there somehow become too many, compensate the owners of the
> destroyed cards with some A$.  Deciding how much may not be easy, though.
> Fix the production rule(s) so that otzma cards cannot be created in excess
> of the limits, if this is not already so, so that the only time too many
> otzma cards of a type can exist is when the limits change.
> 
> /dev/joe

Oddly enough, I have a great-great aunt who's house is in a flood plain.
She has become a terrific swimmer and no longer paints with water-colors.

AirHead (with a capital "H")

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:05:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposal 1564

Proposal 1564 -- Sun 15 Dec 17:59 CST 1996
Days of Meditation
Lestrade (John Duncan)

My proposal calls for the deletion of a paragraph from R797 the Festival
of Torkola, and the replacement of the deletion by a new rule, which I
have titled  Days of Meditation.
 
Delete from R 797 paragraph 5c which states:

5c) Upon rejection of 3 consecutive proposals due to Quorum not being
met, a Festival of 5 days will automatically start on the day following
the public distribution of the voting results of the third rejection.
Any rejections which occur during a Festival or before the known start
date of one shall not count. e.g, if 6 proposals are rejected on a
Saturday, the first 3 are sufficient to start a festival on Sunday, and
the other rejections shall be ignored.

The text of the new rule is between the symbols &&&&&

&&&&&
This rule defines the Days of Meditation , a period of reflection and
resolve on the part of Ackanomians to craft better rules for the
enjoyment of all.

1) Upon rejection of 3 consecutive proposals due to Quorum not being
met, the Tabulator shall inform the President that a situation exists
for calling Days of Meditation. The President will then declare that it
is necessary for Days of Meditation. This will be a 5 day period
beginning 24 hours after the President's posted declaration as
determined by the President's time zone.

2) During Days of Meditation it is illegal for anyone to distribute a
proposal for voting. This clause takes precedence over any mutable rule
which would require anyone to do so. This specifically applies to
proposals only.

3) If there are more than three consecutive proposals that fail due to
lack of Quorum, only the first three will be used to invoke this rule.
Any remainder, between the initial occurence of the conditions and the
end of the Days of Meditation, shall be ignored. 
&&&&&

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #406
*******************************