Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #298
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest      Wednesday, October 16 1996      Volume 01 : Number 298

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:49:35 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Mitchell Harding)
Subject: Acka: Duelling Limericks 

To my fellow Ackanomians, I present this Limerick as my submission for my Duel:

There once was a man from Tahiti,
Who declared Bob Sevin too greedy,
A duel was requested,
Robert Sevin accepted,
This last line is just plain silly.

Robert Sevin,
Wearing a Silly Vacation Hat

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:51:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Electronic Potatoes

> The machine shakes and shimmies a little more, and out the back pops
> a shiny new Electronic Potato, which the Chartreuse Goose, (who has not
> been fed in quite some time), starts pecking at.

This reminds me -- snowgod had a proposal pass recently (1298).
He should be credited A$2 for his electronic potato.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:55:12 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Electronic Potatoes

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> > The machine shakes and shimmies a little more, and out the back pops
> > a shiny new Electronic Potato, which the Chartreuse Goose, (who has not
> > been fed in quite some time), starts pecking at.
> 
> This reminds me -- snowgod had a proposal pass recently (1298).
> He should be credited A$2 for his electronic potato.
> 
> /dev/joe

I actually have the electronic potato.  I traded 10 PFTechno for it
during the bond-trading mania.  I have been logging it.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:47:10 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: *ping*

On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, IdiotBoy wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Bascule wrote:
> 
> > Much as I would like to respond to this, it would of course be
> > illegal for me to do so. So I won't.
> > 
> > Bascule
> > 
> Well, of course I wasn't asking the scolar.  It's no fun asking people who
> have the answers.  Much better that I get uninformed opinion!

It is my considered opinion, from my careful studies that the machine 
that goes ping will go ping tommorow.  I would like to say that I know 
the truth, but but don't... I just can't figure out the wording :)

snowgod
> > IB > --
> IdiotBoy, as always, dumber than a box of hammers.
> [email-masked]
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:55:58 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Electronic Potatoes

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > The machine shakes and shimmies a little more, and out the back pops
> > a shiny new Electronic Potato, which the Chartreuse Goose, (who has not
> > been fed in quite some time), starts pecking at.
> 
> This reminds me -- snowgod had a proposal pass recently (1298).
> He should be credited A$2 for his electronic potato.
> 
> /dev/joe
> 

I'd love to be credited A$2, but unfortunatley, I sold my Electronic 
Potato to malenkai to finance my re-election campaign.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:58:30 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
the Hall of elders.

Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
offices, but still was a valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.

I am therefor doing so.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:16:22 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

I second the nomination.
(he almost played PartyChess:)

Niccolo Flychuck

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Phillip R. Ackley wrote:

> Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
> believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
> the Hall of elders.
> 
> Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
> offices, but still wasa valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
> that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.
> 
> I am therefor doing so.
> 
> snowgod
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 01:59:26 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Bond Option

I am writing a Bond Option to buy 10 PFHabeous for A$10 apiece, by 
November 3, 1996.

snowgod
owner of OPFHabeous-10-A$10-961103-snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 02:05:30 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: official: Ambassador

I am initiating a senate vote on all outstanding internomic proposals. 
The senators have one week in which to comply with R970, or shall be 
held in contempt.  Of course, I have the utmost confidence in the 
ability of our senators, as do i have also in their wisdom.

If the senators so request, I will once again mail the text of these 
proposals to the list.

snowgod
ambassador

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:29:18 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: The Mark of a Champion

My Champion's Cloak is a full-length half-circle cloak of regal violet
velvet trimmed with ermine.  On close examination, it becomes evident
that the spots on the ermine trim are actually numbers -- 6, 256, 514,
549, and 607 are all present.  Enblazoned on the left breast is a small
white scroll overlaid by a blue cross, below a set of golden scales.
Concealed within the cloak is a high-quality CD player and a pair of
lightweight speakers,
through which I am prone to play Queen's "We are the Champions."

I hereby don my Champion's Cloak and request to be addressed as "Exalted
One."

ThinMan
Winner of Cycle 6

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:18:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Official

I support Wayne's Elderhood.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:40:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

I support Techno's Elderhood.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:30:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

Mee too.

Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Mohammed wrote:

> I support Techno's Elderhood.
> 
> --Mohammed
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:04:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael J. Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 307 (fnord)

Malenkai spake thusly
> 
> fnord has been chosen, and has 3 days to accept/decline.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Call For Judgement 307

I accept this.

fnord

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 12:44:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: IdiotBoy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Phillip R. Ackley wrote:

> Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
> believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
> the Hall of elders.
> 
> Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
> offices, but still was a valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
> that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.
> 
> I am therefor doing so.
> 
> snowgod
> 
Here, here. Count my support.

IB
- --
IdiotBoy, as always, dumber than a box of hammers.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

> > Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
> > believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
> > the Hall of elders.
> > 
> > Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
> > offices, but still was a valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
> > that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.
> > 
> > I am therefor doing so.
> > 
> > snowgod
> > 
> Here, here. Count my support.

Hear, hear. Me three.

Does this mean that I will never be able to purchase an amber banana?

b

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:53:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, snowgod wrote:

>Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
>believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
>the Hall of elders.
>
>Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
>offices, but still was a valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
>that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.
>
>I am therefor doing so.

I second this nomination as well.  (How could I not?  Thanks, snowgod.)

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:06:36 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: One More Hall Of Elders

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > > Techno, who has been a player here for some time (longer than me I 
> > > believe), and who gave us the amber banana, has not been nominated for 
> > > the Hall of elders.
> > > 
> > > Technor, who didn't write alot of rules, who didn't hold a lot of 
> > > offices, but still was a valuable asset to ackanomic in the same sense 
> > > that mr cwm is (silent strong and wise) desrves to be nominated.
> > > 
> > > I am therefor doing so.
> > > 
> > > snowgod
> > > 
> > Here, here. Count my support.
> 
> Hear, hear. Me three.
> 
> Does this mean that I will never be able to purchase an amber banana?
> 
Fear Not!  I have been in contact with Techno from beyond the grave (or 
possibly just the other side of the earth?).  We are currently workingon 
a solution to this very Banana crises.   Have no fear, then.

You will be able to purchase bananas.

snowgod
who is picking himself up and playing on

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:29:11 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Hall Of Elder Stuff

I am not 100 percent clear on whether the nominator must cast a vote or 
if his support is implied.  In any event, just to be on the safe side, I 
support tinan and techno's elderhood.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:34:54 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Not so much an RFC as a thought that occured to me while showering

How about when the Machine that goes *ping* starts whirring and doing 
it's number, it produces a "chit".  These chits are tradeable, etc.  Once 
someone has three of these chits they may feed them back into the machine 
9or trade them with the inventor, etc) to recieve a random gadget.

The reason I bring this up is because soon we are going to hacve a lot of 
Whamiol's floating around, or other such devices that I intended to be 
"rare" and it may get a little hard to keep track of.  

snowgod
who really likes the machine

By the way,  I have a whole slew of blueprints that I am fixing to unveil.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 13:50:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Not so much an RFC as a thought that occured to me while showering

I like this.  I originally thought the Gadget production on the Machine's 
part would be rather slow, but now I see that we're far too intelligent 
for that.  Of course, I could be a total devil on the next Truth :) and 
the problem would be solved that way too.

Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Phillip R. Ackley wrote:

> How about when the Machine that goes *ping* starts whirring and doing 
> it's number, it produces a "chit".  These chits are tradeable, etc.  Once 
> someone has three of these chits they may feed them back into the machine 
> 9or trade them with the inventor, etc) to recieve a random gadget.
> 
> The reason I bring this up is because soon we are going to hacve a lot of 
> Whamiol's floating around, or other such devices that I intended to be 
> "rare" and it may get a little hard to keep track of.  
> 
> snowgod
> who really likes the machine
> 
> By the way,  I have a whole slew of blueprints that I am fixing to unveil.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:16:30 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1338

On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> Proposal 1338 - Tue Oct 15 19:57 EDT 1996
> Towers
> Malenkai (Randy Hall)
> 
> Create a new rule called "Towers" which reads:

I might be missing something, but what do Towers "do" ?

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:53:33 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Proposal 1338

Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
>I might be missing something, but what do Towers "do" ?

As of the proposal in question, they would do at least two things:

1) Defines which building the Brass Monkey climbs.
2) Gives players a money sink.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:06:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1338

They give the Brass Monkey something to climb.

Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> > Proposal 1338 - Tue Oct 15 19:57 EDT 1996
> > Towers
> > Malenkai (Randy Hall)
> > 
> > Create a new rule called "Towers" which reads:
> 
> I might be missing something, but what do Towers "do" ?
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:25:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Retraction

I retract P 1341.

Guy Fawkes
will acheive all-time retraction record before leaving game

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:10:12 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 1338

Bollinger, John C. wrote:
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck wrote:
> >I might be missing something, but what do Towers "do" ?
> 
> As of the proposal in question, they would do at least two things:
> 
> 1) Defines which building the Brass Monkey climbs.
> 2) Gives players a money sink.

They also give players an imagination sink.  A couple of ideas:

1) A public monument commemerating Wayne's career.
2) A vehicle to get off-world or get to the "edge" of the universe
3) A vehicle for a friendly arms race, potentially between the public
and private sector, depending on what benefits are defined

The concept is open for development.  Use your imagination and explore
it.  Despite the rather mundane appearance of the proposal, I found some
interesting potential areas for game-play and development, although they
may be subtle. 

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:34:15 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Not so much an RFC as a thought that occured to me while showering

Phillip R. Ackley wrote:

> The reason I bring this up is because soon we are going to hacve a lot of
> Whamiol's floating around, or other such devices that I intended to be
> "rare" and it may get a little hard to keep track of.

I actually think I'm doing a pretty good job of keeping track of them,
but I agree there will be "gadget inflation".  Rather than chits,
athough I don't really oppose the idea, how about a random probability
between a gadget, Otzma card, prosthetic forehead, swing vote (!!!),
I don't know, chits may be good, but don't make them tradable.

I have many other ideas here as well, no time to develop :(  "Towers"
is as good as it gets ...

Malenkai
agrees gadget inflation is possible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:44:22 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 304 Verdict

CFJ 304 has been judged TRUE.

Clerk of the Courts
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 304
  Subject: More Wrangling
Initiator: Malenkai
    Judge: Habeous Corpus (selected Sep 10, 1996, 22:36h EDT)
Judgement:

Statement:

"the number of donkeyes e has Grabbed" in R 1276, section G, is the
total number of donkeys the Belt Holder grabbed which resulted in a
player being removed from the GAL, which is not necessarily the number
of "grab moves" (R 1276-B-(b)) made by the Belt Holder.

Malenkai's Reasoning:

This interpretation is contrary to comments offered by the Judge of
CFJ 303.  I'm unconfortable establishing game custom in the reasoning
of CFJs when the custom being written is not germaine to the
truth of the statement being judged.

I see a case for TRUE and a case for FALSE here, it depends on how
strictly you render the rule, in particular, how you render the word
"grab" and the move of "grabbing".

Its pretty simple:  Does the game move R 1276-B-(b) count as a "grab" for
the purposes of R 1276-G "grab".  To me, R 1276-B-(b) is an "attempted
grab", and the rule is poorly worded, but I could be wrong.  I'll let
the judge sort it out; I see the strict-constructionalist verdict as
well.

Habeous Corpus's Reasoning:

Rule 1276,  section G awards points on the basis of the number of Donkeys
the winner "Grabbed".  It makes no mention of "Grab attempts" or anything
less specific than the actual number Grabbed.

Section B refers to "Grabbing" and possibly could have been (should have
been) better worded to state explicitly "Grab attempt".

While it could be and has  been argued that even if player B Covered eir
Donkey,  the action of R1276 (B)(b) would count for a "Grabbed" Donkey on
player A's behalf and result in  points being awarded.

  However,  Section C specifically states that  player B only loses eir
Donkey if e fails to cover it.  The common usage of the word "Grab"
versus "Grab attempt" leads me to the conclusion that regardless of the
clumsy wording of Section Bb,  if player B successfully Covered eir
Donkey,  player A did not,   in fact,  "Grab" it.

For those who might claim that this represents a conflict or paradox,  I
remind em that game custom already established that successive sections
of the same rule establish precedence in regards to that rule.

Therefor,  I find the statement TRUE.

There has also been speculation,  and even a Statement by a judge to the
effect that the Rule does not prevent multiple Grab attempts in the same
turn.  Section B is very specific about this issue.  It states that
Player A must Grab "a specific player's" Donkey. It makes no provision
for plural "players'" Donkeys.  It also states clearly at the end of the
section that a player may _change_ eir action at any time during the
turn,  but does not make a specific allowance for additional actions
during that turn.

During any given turn of GAD,  a player may successfully Grab,  at most
one Donkey.  If and only if that Grab was successful and that player is
also declared the winner,  would the successful Grab result in any
Points.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:18:23 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Duel Vote

The duel vote ends in 4 (why not 3 ??) days.  The limericks submitted
are:

Guy Fawkes:

Bob Sevin: 'twere bad enough he
Had turned to most vile Heresy,
But worse yet his greed
Was what prompted this deed
So let him ab-ash-ed now be.

Robert Sevin:

There once was a man from Tahiti,
Who declared Bob Sevin too greedy,
A duel was requested,
Robert Sevin accepted,
This last line is just plain silly.

Send me your votes.
Assistant Tabulator

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:28:57 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Request

When sending me stuff, please send it to me in seperate messages
with an appropriate subject line.  For example, I received a single 
post which contains a Grab-a-Donkey move, a Purple Robe bid, a Witchhunt
vote, and an office nomination.

I organize my e-mail client into one folder for each outstanding event
which requires my attention, and drag and drop the post into the proper
folder when it comes in (that is why I like netscape's mail client so
much).  Such posts, which I realize are easier for the sender, are a
nightmare for this scheme.

Thanks.  Of course, I'd much rather receive a post with many moves than
no action on any of the outstanding events.  So DON'T stop sending stuff,
or calling events, etc, and stop *admiring* your donkey! :)

Malenkai
Speaker
Clerk of the Court
Assistant Tabulator
Acting GamesMaster
Acting Appointer
Acting Senator
Chief Cheese
Acting Historian
Acting Promoter
Acting Tabulator
Wrangler
Assists the Financier
having fun

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:59:00 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposal 1342

Proposal 1342 - Wed Oct 16 21:57 EDT 1996
Money, Cigarettes, and Bicycles
Malenkai (Randy Hall)

This is a Modest proposal.

Amend R 1046 as follows:

1) Place the following text at the end of the rule:

{{All A$ owned by the Orkatass Lawn Care Company and Motor Inn are 
transferred to the Treasury. [this amendment is because it will be
one less thing to track, yet keep the flavor of the rule.]}}

2) Replace the period at the end of the third paragraph with the following
text:

" (which is then immediately transferred to the Treasury, as the OLCCaMI is
a not-for-profit entity)."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:28:03 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Elders

Wayne received 15 Elders nominations.  tinan received 14.  Pretty
damn impressive; both are confirmed.

The following holidays will be added to the acka calendar:

this is not a holiday (April 3rd)
Wayne's day (October 13th)

These are the only 2 known holidays.

If P 1338 passes, I plan to build a monument, perhaps with some poetry
or something enscribed on it.

I am commissioning the poet laureate to write a memorial poem for
both of these Elders.  I have no idea how this works, sorry.  Could
snowgod or the poet handle the details until I get back on track.
I will pay a reasonable fee, whatever the going rate.  Also, isn't 
another poem about the Gnome due?

I would also like to commission snowgod's portrait service to do a
portrait for Wayne, so his slot is not empty in the Hall.  Hopefully
this will be done gratis :).  I would get Wayne's permission first.

Finally, the Web-Harfer has the duty to set up the Hall with all of
the Elder's non-mimsy possessions displayed (I have a list), and the
Historian (soon to be named) has a duty to write a biography about
the Elders.

Malenkai
Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:30:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Goose

Any holder of a Chartreuse Goose Egg is hereby invited to submit a bid to 
take this fowl most foul off my hands.  Name your price; the lowest bid 
shall win.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:37:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elders

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> Wayne received 15 Elders nominations.  tinan received 14.  Pretty
> damn impressive; both are confirmed.

As much as I would like to see them both confirmed, I do not believe the 
current Hall of Elders rule states any conditions under which a 
confirmation period may end; and it explicitly says the determination of 
whether or not their confirmation points are sufficient to merit 
elderhood is not made until the confirmation period ends.

This is why I wrote P1340.  Please examine the rule for yourself; it is 
possible I missed something.

Guy Fawkes
who believes confirmation periods are eternal, at least for the time 
being :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:50:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: IdiotBoy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elders

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> I would also like to commission snowgod's portrait service to do a
> portrait for Wayne, so his slot is not empty in the Hall.  Hopefully
> this will be done gratis :).  I would get Wayne's permission first.
> 
If this isn't gratis, I will repay Malenkai for the cost of this portrait.

> Finally, the Web-Harfer has the duty to set up the Hall with all of
> the Elder's non-mimsy possessions displayed (I have a list), and the
> Historian (soon to be named) has a duty to write a biography about
> the Elders.
> 
> Malenkai
> Speaker
> 
Missing them already-
IB
- --
IdiotBoy, as always, dumber than a box of hammers.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:51:42 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elders

Someone just make this happen.  I am way to overloaded to look into
this detail.

Malenkai

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:
> 
> > Wayne received 15 Elders nominations.  tinan received 14.  Pretty
> > damn impressive; both are confirmed.
> 
> As much as I would like to see them both confirmed, I do not believe the
> current Hall of Elders rule states any conditions under which a
> confirmation period may end; and it explicitly says the determination of
> whether or not their confirmation points are sufficient to merit
> elderhood is not made until the confirmation period ends.
> 
> This is why I wrote P1340.  Please examine the rule for yourself; it is
> possible I missed something.
> 
> Guy Fawkes
> who believes confirmation periods are eternal, at least for the time
> being :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:54:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: query

Anybody know what current game custom has to say about the hypothetical 
situation described below?  (Which may not be so hypothetical in the near 
future).  I think the most recent ruling says that it happens as I have 
described below.

Player A submits a Paradox Win CFJ, which for the sake of argument we 
will say is TRUE.  However, before a verdict is returned, possibly due to 
a few deadbeat judges, Player B sumits a proposal to fix the alleged 
paradox.  Still before the verdict is returned, it  is voted 
upon and passed, meaning the judge has no choice but to return FALSE.

If a paradox exists, it does indeed need fixing, and so I can't blame 
Player B for submitting the proposal, especially considering how a 
Paradox Win can languish in the courts for weeks, not to mention what can 
happen in case of appeal.  On the other hand, it seems wrong to rob 
Player A of a win if he did indeed find a paradox, and it certainly isn't 
right to stick him with the Chartreuse Goose.

If this scenario is indeed correct, I will try to fix it.  Otherwise, 
please inform me so I can stop worrying about it.

Guy Fawkes 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:52:57 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official

The nominations for 6 offices are over.  The volunteers and results
are:

GamesMaster
- -----------
   Niccolo Flychuck
   Malenkai

   It would be an abuse of power to appoint myself to this functional
office.  On the other hand, it would be some big word I can't think of
to *decline* the office because of this situation.  Thus, as acting 
Appointer, I shall use the dice server.  Odd and I am the GamesMaster,
even, Niccolo is appointed.  I will ack it at that time.

Senator (seat Sinecure 33)
- --------------------------
    breadbox

    No election is necessary.  breadbox is the senator and should look
at the Internomic propsosals.

Historian
- --------------------------
    breadbox

    No election is necessary.  breadbox is the Historian and should write
a biography for the Elders.  I have some notes on the early history of 
the game (stuff I wanted added to the history page) and have every e-mail
since a real long time ago, so I (and I am sure others) will be willing
to help breadbox with some (revisionist :-) history.

Appointer
- ---------------------------
    Malenkai
    snowgod

    An election is necessary.  This office has about an hour or so left
to live, assuming P 1326 passes and becomes publically knowable.  To make
this whole process easier, I chose to force the election so as to remain
acting appointer until this is all cleaned up.  Please do not send votes.

Promoter
- ----------------------------
    Guy Fawkes

    I appoint Guy Fawkes to the functional office of Promoter.

Tabulator
- -----------------------------
    No volunteers.

    The good news is that a couple of players have said they would work
on bots, and take the office if the bots work out.  My vision is to merge
Promoter and Tabulator, and have a bot handle both jobs.  I have no time
to write a bot and no server to run it on.  

    PLEASE STOP SENDING VOTES TO ME.  When P 1326 becomes publically
knowable, snowgod will be the acting Tabulator.  I'm sure he will have
some format for the votes.  Sorry for the short voting period.  There are
some excellent proposals in the queue, please vote *after* this process
is cleaned up.  Quorum failure places you on vacation for 2 days minimum.

     I encourage snowgod to encourage voting as well.

Malenkai
Speaker
Acting Appointer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:57:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: IdiotBoy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Elders

Preface: this is not a snipe at Guy Fawkes.

On Wed, 16 Oct 1996, Guy Fawkes wrote:

> As much as I would like to see them both confirmed, I do not believe the 
> current Hall of Elders rule states any conditions under which a 
> confirmation period may end; and it explicitly says the determination of 
> whether or not their confirmation points are sufficient to merit 
> elderhood is not made until the confirmation period ends.
> 
Can't we do anything under the spirit of the rules?  What kind of action
would I have to take to move us to a loose constructionist view of the
rules?  

Part of my weariness with Acka which I wrote about the other day arises out
of this constant need to nitpick the rules.  It's one thing to do this "in
fun", i.e. pointing out a funny loophole -- maybe even exploiting it for
some kicks, I believe it is quite another to increase "paperwork" and reduce
harfiness in worship of the letter of the rules.

> This is why I wrote P1340.  Please examine the rule for yourself; it is 
> possible I missed something.
> 
> Guy Fawkes
> who believes confirmation periods are eternal, at least for the time 
> being :)
> 
Again, this is not a shot at Guy Fawkes.  I saw the smilie!

IB
(maybe I should join that FUN party thingy)
- --
IdiotBoy, as always, dumber than a box of hammers.
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 22:57:21 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: query

stop worrying about it.  The CFJ must be judged under the rules
in effect when it is submitted.  The paradoxes in CFJ 256 and 269 were
both removed before the final verdict is returned.

Malenkai

Guy Fawkes wrote:
> 
> Anybody know what current game custom has to say about the hypothetical
> situation described below?  (Which may not be so hypothetical in the near
> future).  I think the most recent ruling says that it happens as I have
> described below.
> 
> Player A submits a Paradox Win CFJ, which for the sake of argument we
> will say is TRUE.  However, before a verdict is returned, possibly due to
> a few deadbeat judges, Player B sumits a proposal to fix the alleged
> paradox.  Still before the verdict is returned, it  is voted
> upon and passed, meaning the judge has no choice but to return FALSE.
> 
> If a paradox exists, it does indeed need fixing, and so I can't blame
> Player B for submitting the proposal, especially considering how a
> Paradox Win can languish in the courts for weeks, not to mention what can
> happen in case of appeal.  On the other hand, it seems wrong to rob
> Player A of a win if he did indeed find a paradox, and it certainly isn't
> right to stick him with the Chartreuse Goose.
> 
> If this scenario is indeed correct, I will try to fix it.  Otherwise,
> please inform me so I can stop worrying about it.
> 
> Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 04:11:25 +0000
From: Bascule <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: query

Argh! I don't think this is right, Malenkai. 

Certainly, ThinMan won by paradox even though the rules had changed
between him submitting the CFJ and the verdict finally coming through
(I think Malenkai was acting justice at that time). I took the view
that a judge considering the rules "then in effect" could mean the
rules in effect when the CFJ was submitted, rather than when it was
judged, and that it would be against the spirit of the game to deny
ThinMan a win because of the speed of our legal system. But now we
have CFJ 287, which came back TRUE:

"If a CFJ is submitted, and before a verdict is reached, the rules
pertaining to making judgements are changed, the judgement must be
made in accordance with the new rules."

So I think there is a problem, because loopholes seem to be sewn up 
faster than the legal system takes to acknowledge their existence.

Bascule

Malenkai wrote:
> stop worrying about it.  The CFJ must be judged under the rules
> in effect when it is submitted.  The paradoxes in CFJ 256 and 269 were
> both removed before the final verdict is returned.
> 
> Malenkai
> 
> Guy Fawkes wrote:
> > 
> > Anybody know what current game custom has to say about the hypothetical
> > situation described below?  (Which may not be so hypothetical in the near
> > future).  I think the most recent ruling says that it happens as I have
> > described below.
> > 
> > Player A submits a Paradox Win CFJ, which for the sake of argument we
> > will say is TRUE.  However, before a verdict is returned, possibly due to
> > a few deadbeat judges, Player B sumits a proposal to fix the alleged
> > paradox.  Still before the verdict is returned, it  is voted
> > upon and passed, meaning the judge has no choice but to return FALSE.
> > 
> > If a paradox exists, it does indeed need fixing, and so I can't blame
> > Player B for submitting the proposal, especially considering how a
> > Paradox Win can languish in the courts for weeks, not to mention what can
> > happen in case of appeal.  On the other hand, it seems wrong to rob
> > Player A of a win if he did indeed find a paradox, and it certainly isn't
> > right to stick him with the Chartreuse Goose.
> > 
> > If this scenario is indeed correct, I will try to fix it.  Otherwise,
> > please inform me so I can stop worrying about it.
> > 
> > Guy Fawkes
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:15:43 -0700
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: GamesMaster Random Roll

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Random resolution of GamesMaster appointment
# Odd indicates malenkai is appointed, Even indicates Niccolo is
# Acting Appointer

No. of sides on every die:    100
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     34

Information on the dice server:
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   Replies to [email-masked] vanish into a seldom-read mailbox.

   For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with
   subject "help" to [email-masked], or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/

   The dice server is a public service provided by Shadow Island Games.

Original headers follow:

> From [email-masked]  Wed Oct 16 20:15:11 1996
> Received: (from smtp@localhost) by rt.com
>       id UAA27100 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:15:11 -0700
> Received: from unknown(206.138.122.6) by rt.com via smtp (V1.3)
>       id sma027078; Wed Oct 16 20:15:05 1996
> Received: from ppp184.itw.com (ppp184.itw.com [206.138.122.184]) by mail.itw.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA09526 for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:14:37 -0400
> Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:12:24 -0400
> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Acka: GamesMaster Roll
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.7

iQCVAwUBMmWk3j8NitsTFjcVAQEzEgQAkv7NHbMGRk7n68KmEhlD+SivHXSVfGan
pXar7BvOw4JP+pSiHlABCOdbbS6VxZF0T3oJJvdGJtrNEQshl2kVK2ARdG7Vy2ej
pt6kNE5XXaogB4mxYubPwnRWD0mqBWoAFRfsKzGT3n3Df9yOU6kpCjbCKcWVRKlO
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=gtqs
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:17:26 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: GamesMaster Random Roll

Dice server wrote:

> Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> Rolls also sent to:
>     [email-masked]
> 
> # Random resolution of GamesMaster appointment
> # Odd indicates malenkai is appointed, Even indicates Niccolo is
> # Acting Appointer

>      34

Damn.  I really wanted this one :(.

I appoint Niccolo Flychuck GamesMaster

Malenkai
Acting Appointer (for another 3 minutes)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:22:39 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: P 1324-1326

As of this post, snowgod replaces me as Acting Tabulator

Malenkai
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Here are the voting results for : 1324
  Proposal 1324 - Tue Oct 08 01:30:21 EDT 1996
  No Cheesy Whamiol Points
  Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Quorum met : 16 eligible voters -- 12 players cast votes

10 YES votes   3 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

10 YES votes:
  Malenkai               FUN                  =  45
  ThinMan                Vulcan               =  45
  Niccolo Flychuck       Vulcan               =  40
  Bascule                FUN                  =  24
  Vulcan Unity vote                           =   0
  /dev/joe               Vulcan               =  47
  Mohammed                                    =   0
  snowgod                (None Yet)
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)
  breadbox

3 NO votes:  3 points each
  Habeous Corpus                               50 -> 53
  Guy Fawkes             (None Yet)            47 -> 50
  IdiotBoy                                      6 -> 9

0 PRESENT votes:

5 ABSTENTIONS:
  Calvin N Hobbes        FUN
  fnord
  Brinjal
  Robert Sevin
  breadbox

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon
  Pascal

New players who are not active:
  Dagny
  PapaSmurf
____________________________________________
============================================

Here are the voting results for : 1325
  Proposal 1325 - Tue Oct 08 01:31:00 EDT 1996
  Shotgun Control
  Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Quorum met : 16 eligible voters -- 12 players cast votes

8 YES votes   3 NO votes   2 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

8 YES votes:  0 point each
  Malenkai               FUN                   28 -> 31
  ThinMan                Vulcan                45 -> 48
  Niccolo Flychuck       Vulcan                40 -> 43
  Bascule                FUN                   24 -> 27
  Vulcan Unity vote                           =   0
  /dev/joe               Vulcan                47 -> 50
  snowgod                (None Yet)
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)

3 NO votes:
  Habeous Corpus                              =  50
  Guy Fawkes             (None Yet)           =  47
  IdiotBoy                                    =   6

2 PRESENT votes:
  Mohammed                                     =   0
  breadbox

5 ABSTENTIONS:
  Calvin N Hobbes        FUN
  fnord
  Brinjal
  Robert Sevin
  breadbox

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon
  Pascal

New players who are not active:
  Dagny
  PapaSmurf
____________________________________________
============================================

Here are the voting results for : 1326
  Proposal 1326 - Tue Oct 08 01:31:16 EDT 1996
  Lots of Office Stuff
  Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Quorum met : 16 eligible voters -- 11 players cast votes

13 YES votes   0 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

13 YES votes:  0 point each
  Malenkai               FUN                   28 -> 31
  ThinMan                Vulcan                45 -> 48
  Niccolo Flychuck       Vulcan                40 -> 43
  Bascule                FUN                   24 -> 27
  Habeous Corpus                               50 -> 53
  Guy Fawkes             (None Yet)            47 -> 50
  IdiotBoy                                      6 -> 9
  snowgod                (None Yet)
  /dev/joe               Vulcan
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)
  Vulcan Unity
  (None Yet) Unity
  breadbox

0 NO votes:

0 PRESENT votes:

6 ABSTENTIONS:
  Calvin N Hobbes        FUN
  fnord
  Mohammed
  Brinjal
  Robert Sevin
  breadbox

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon
  Pascal

New players who are not active:
  Dagny
  PapaSmurf

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #298
*******************************