Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #290
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest      Saturday, October 12 1996      Volume 01 : Number 290

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 01:50:29 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: President

The fourth presidential election is over, and snowgod wins.  It is
the first presidential election to be won by plurality, and not
majority, and only the second acka election for office that I can
remember being won by plurality (Poet Laureate), but there must
have been others. The rules are silent on the issue, and I was unsure
of game custom in this regard, but since Poet Laureate was not even
a *true* plurality, and was accepted, I guess that is game custom...,
especially when the rules explicity allow for an election to be won
without pulling a majority (the random tiebreaker).
 
snowgod (7 votes)
    snowgod
    Bascule
    Mohammed
    Habeous Corpus
    fnord
    Guy Fawkes
    Malenkai

Niccolo Flychuck (5 votes)
    Niccolo Flychuck
    ThinMan
    /dev/joe
    mr cwm
    Brinjal

Uncle Sam (2 votes)
    Uncle Sam
    IdiotBoy

Assistant Tabulator

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:06:44 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: President

I wish to thank all those who voted for me in the recent presidential 
elections.  I'd also like to thank those who voted against me, but still 
voted.  It looks as if the days of voter apathy in Ackanomic are far 
behind is. If there is anything I can do, in my capactiy as president, 
for any player, please feel free to ask me.

thanks again,
snowgod
Acka's first two term president

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:17:25 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Presidential

Niccolo Flychuck has delivered verdicts on 15 CFJs.  He has led us 
bravely through the darkness of rule interpretation quagmires.  

It is with greate pride that I honor him with this Bronze Torch, which I 
have had created for this occasion by the Frobozz Magic Medal Company, 
Ackanomic Division.

snowgod
president

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:21:38 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official

Since I am once again president in a non-acting capacity, I am exorcising 
(sp?) my privlidge in accordance wit R1271 and commisioning a poem from 
the Poet Laureate eulogizing the passage of our beloved Voting Gnome.

I had hoped to do this earlier, but we had either:

A) No Poet
b) No President

snowgod
victorious

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 22:38:55 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Forheads

I am trading a rock for a forehead with the following characteristics:

It is a lovely forehead that is (amazingly enough) the same size 
and shape as the normal forehead of it's owner.  Contained on this 
forhead is a replication of a "globe" - a charming device that I have 
seen during my travels as ambassador.  This "globe" thingee depicts the 
earth as if it were a perfect sphere, a concept which I cannot fathom.

Mr Hobbes,

I, like you, used to believe in the roundness of the earth, but I have 
changed my evil ways.  The earth is obviously flat - the rules tell us 
so.  This fascinating discussion of AckaPhysics (and I like the fractal 
bit) has been spurred in large part by the flatness of the earth and the 
possible discovery of pressure as a universal force.  I do not believe 
that the flatness of the earth can even be contested.

That being said, I transfer my newly created forhead to Calvin N Hobbes, 
who though misguided obviously stands for what he believes in.

snowgod

On Fri, 11 Oct 
1996, T Joffrain wrote:

> At 03:01 AM 11-10-96 -0800, Phillip R. Ackley wrote:
> >A few players have not yet claimed their special campaign forheads.  I 
> >realize that some of these players are on vacation, and cannot claim the 
> >right now, but some aren't and can.
> 
> I'll claim mine, thanks... but before I do I want to know if you can pass
> the test of moral courage. Actually, I'd like to know if there are any
> candidates who would be willing to pass the test. See below.
> 
> >I'd just like to remind everyone that hasn't yet claimed a forehead to do 
> >so soon.  Who knows what I may decide to do with them later.  And oh 
> >yeah, well I'mm at it, let me remind you to vote for snowgod, the only 
> >candidate who will hapily spend his hard earned money to amuse you, the 
> >voter.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, it was a nice thought, and even a nice forehead.
> However... I do not believe the earth is flat. (yes, "he" is actually saying
> that and how could he do this to us good flatearthers who have only burned
> him twice before and by golly he'll learn his lesson this time bla bla bla...)
> 
> And since you brought that subject up, snowgod, I'm wondering if you would
> be willing to get it re-engraved to say: "the earth's shape is closer to
> round than to flat" instead.
> 
> Any other candidate willing to test their moral fiber? Are you for religious
> persecution or scientific knowledge? In a time when we are finding out so
> much of physics has to be investigated here in Acka, will our leaders
> support the results or suppress them?   ;)
> 
> Calvin "burn me" Hobbes
> who has forgotten his slippers in AckAfterlife and needs to go get them
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:59:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: shimmin robert gene <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: email address

Due to a vicious letterbombing and a botched email filter, I am at least 
temporarily changing my address to [email-masked].  Please 
send future correspondence there -- it may bounce or worse, be lost in the 
caverns of the UNIX demons if sent to the students.uiuc.edu domain.

Thank you,
Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:00:12 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Presidential Election - Congratulations Snowgod

I woule like to congratulate Snowgod on being elected for President.
It was a fun Campaign. This time we even managed to get some sort of a
debate.
Next we'll try to organize that a little sooner. If anyone would like to
take a look at the debate, for historical reasons (perhaps it should be
added to the history pages). It's currently at
http://www.actcom.co.il/~bruck/acka/debate.html

I would also like to thank all the players who voted for me. Your
confidence in me is inspiring.

I'd like to thank all the players who voted for the other candidates -
this is the second Presidential Election with a large turnout.

I'm removing the Prosthetic Forehead that was given to me by my friend
snowgod and placing it with my other Prosthetic Forehead on the eastern
bookshelf.

 Niccolo Flychuck

not-President for a second consecutive term

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:28:48 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [none]

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Subject: Acka: Re: Parade
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 00:42:38 EDT

>Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 09:19:23 -0400
>From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: Acka: Parade
>
>Phil Ackley wrote:
>> 
>> On the occasion of his first new rule, I would like to congratulate 
>Habeous
>> Corpus as he leads us in a parade with the Great Trombone of 
>Ackanomic!!!
>
>In accordance with R 1237, I am ordering 2 cokes, and frinking them.  
>Also,
>I am ordering a Bronze Torch, which is a mixture of coke, vodka, and 
>Korte Palinka, a Hungarian Schnopps.  Would the Financier please put
>this on the president's tab?
>
>Malenkai
>frinking coke
>

I will gladly join Malenkai in a frink at the president's expense.  Make
mine  a pint of Guinness

Habeous Corpus

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:31:42 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [none]

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From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: pre-RFC: entity classes
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 02:37:14 -0500 (CDT)

pre-RFC: Entity Classes

I'm not sure how much merit there is in this, but at least in some instances
it looks to be worth doing.

I want to define "classes" of entities.  There are already some classes of
entities defined in the rules; in some cases it is worded as below; in other
cases it is simply said that the things exist, or different terms are used.

Ackanomic has quite a variety of entities, and quite a few different ways
these entities are defined.

I. Unique entities.  There is just one of each such entity in existence
at any given time.  The Machine that goes *ping*, Phoebe's Matchbox, the
Magic Potato, etc.  If these can ever be owned, they are usually mimsy.
Each of these is its own class.

II. Classes of distinct entities.  There may be few or many items in one
of these classes; each of them is distinct and usually named.  Players,
undead, rules, proposals, CFJs, blueprints, prosthetic foreheads, etc.

III. Classes of indistinguishable entities.  Each entity in one of these
classes is exactly like every other, although their owner/haunter and
other things external to the entity may be different.  A$, points,
rocks to wind a string around, chartreuse goose eggs, silver stripes, etc.

IV. Classes with sub-types.  In one of these classes there are distinctly
named sub-types.  There may be more than one item within each sub-type,
and those items may or may not be distinguishable.  Gadgets, PFbonds,
buildings, decks of cards, PartyChessPieces.  This is somewhat like
a class whose members are classes, but the name of tyhe main clss is
usually used to refer to the members of the the sub-types.

What this proposal would fix:

One idea behind this is to make some things easier to write.  For instance,
each Blueprint defines a type of Gadget, the type carries the same name as
the Blueprint.  A *lot* of the existing rules would be amended to describe
entities in a manner consistent with the new rule.

There was some confusion when Malenkai tried to make a Vending Machine
over how Rule 703 applies to gadgets.  It should not apply to individual
gadgets, unless some type of gadget requires that the individual gadgets
have names, but it should apply to the names of the gadget types (which,
since they are the same as the blueprint names, need to be made an
exception to rule 703).  Items in type III classes would 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:33:12 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [none]

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Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:39:16 -0700
From: [email-masked] (Dice server)
Subject: Acka: Poet Random Roll
To: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Rolls also sent to:
    [email-masked]

# Random resolution of Poet Laureate election
# Odd indicates fnord wins, Even indicates Guy Fawkes wins
# Assistant Tabulator

No. of sides on every die:    100
No. of dice for every roll:     1
No. of dice rolls requested:    1
No. of rolls per line:          1

     27

Information on the dice server:
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Original headers follow:

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:33:20 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [none]

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Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 1317
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 20:53:34 EDT

Proposal 1317 - Sun Oct 06 20:53:34 EDT 1996
Pheobe Abuse
snowgod  (Phil Ackley)

{{snowgod shall be placed in Gaol for 2 days, as punishment for losing
Pheobe's Matchbox.}}

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:35:23 +0100
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [none]

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Comments: Authenticated sender is <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 00:01:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Acka Proposals Results 1277-1292
Priority: normal

Wayne,

There has been a great mistake.  I voted on all of these proposals, 
yet I am shown to have abstained.  This is not correct.  Would you 
please look for my votes and adjust my score as appropriate.  I am 
being shorted a great deal of points.  When I sent the #current to 
the nomicbot, the reply to line was superuser.  I replied to it.  I 
did not, however, recieve bot results in return.  Thanks in advance.

Techno
"Don't learn the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:25:58 +0000
From: Bascule <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC: National Flag

RFC v1: The National Flag of Ackanomia 

The Patriotic Citizens of Ackanomia are clamouring for their National 
identity to be represented with an icon for our times - a Flag!

Upon acceptance of this proposal, there shall exist a consultation
phase of 2 weeks. During this time, Flag designers shall work day
and night on novel and aesthetically pleasing designs to encapsulate
in a 2-dimensional graphical rendering the essence of all that is
Ackanomic. 

It is the duty of the web-harfer to display all flag designs
submitted to him on the Ackanomic web-page. For a design to be
considered during the shortlist phase, it must

1) possess a unique name

2) be visible on a web page, and

3) a public message must be made by the designer, that

  i) declares the design's name

  ii) declares either the design's location, or that it has been
      submitted to the web-harfer

  iii) declares that it is the designer's wish that the design be
       considered as a potential design for the Ackanomic National
       Flag. 

Following the end of the consultation period, a shortlist period of
one week shall commence. During this time, it is the duty of the
Senate to produce a shortlist of 5 designs that shall be considered
for voting on during the voting phase. If after this period, a
majority of the Senate has not agreed on a shortlist, then it is the 
duty of the President to select the shortlist.

Once a shortlist has been chosen, then a voting period of 3 days
shall begin. Each player may make up to 3 choices of designs that
are on the shortlist, and should indicate the order of their
preference when sending their choices to Count Tabula. A player's
first choice shall have 4 votes cast in favour of that choice. A
player's second choice shall have 2 votes cast in favour of that
choice. A player's third choice shall have 1 vote cast in favour of
that choice. The design that recieves the most votes shall be chosen 
as the National Flag of Ackanomic.

It is the duty of the web-harfer to display The National Flag of 
Ackanomic in a prominent position on the web-page. The President of 
Ackanomia will have the honour of bearing the National Flag at all 
parades and official ceremonies. When not in use, the Flag will be 
flown from the top of the Senate building. It is the duty of the 
Clerk of the Court to ensure that the National Flag does not get 
eaten by moths.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 09:02:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: shimmin robert gene <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: email address

After some late-night hammering on the keyboard, my main email account is 
back on-line again, although running very slowly. 
Sorry about the extra posts; once again I am [email-masked].
This will (hopefully) be the last message from this address.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:03:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 305 (Uncle Sam)

> that it is proved that there is no greatest prime, which means that the
> greatest known prime is not _the_ greatest prime, we have no method of
> determining what it the smallest prime which is greater than the greatest
> known prime.
	Ah!  I get your meaning now.  We know it's out there; we just 
don't know what it is.
	But the case with the CopyCats is different.  We don't know the 
answer is out there.  And not only do we not know what it is, we -know- 
that it isn't possible to find it.

> The no infinite recursion condition does not exist in the rule and
> therefore should not be excluded.
	You're saying, basically, that 0 is superior to 1, because 0 is 
what the rule actually says, while 1 is merely a coarse approximation of 
it.  I agree.

] Just as Mathematics deals witht he
> infinite, so can we. It is sufficient to show that the infinite recursion
> is indeed infinite, we have already shown that calculating such a
> regression can take finite time, so we need not worry about holding up the
> game forever, and since the recursion is indeed infinite, it never reaches
> a conclusion that defines a method by which one CopyCat may Capture
> another.
	**But it never reaches the opposite conclusion either.**  Therefore, 
the legality of the move cannot be determined with finality.
	You can climb an infinitely tall distance in a finite period of 
time, but you can't reach the top of a building that has no top, simply 
because there is no top!  Likewise, you can think as deeply into this as 
you like, covering an infinite amount of thought in a finite period of time, 
but you can never reach a conclusion because there is no conclusion to be 
reached!

> > 	I encourage the judge to see that Mr. Flychuck's argument, that 
> > method 1 must be used, neglects the simple facts that (a) 1 is not given 
> > by the rules, only 0; and (b) 1 isn't any better than 2, which would 
> > produce the opposite result.
> The rules explicitly specify that a method of Capture must be described,
> therefore 1 is better than 2.
	2 describes a method of capture, just as 1 does.  But it's 
irrelevant, really-- both 1 and 2 are cheap ripoffs of 0, and neither 
interpretation is allowed by the rules as written.
	We are stuck with method 0, and therein lies a paradox.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:46:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

> I think we sort of dealt with this with this is not a name's violation of
> the old public messages rule, now "Customary Subject Line Lengths," which
> used to specify a penalty for not including "Ackanomic" or "Acka" in the
> subject line.
	I remember that.  I'm impressed; that's an obscure old 
reference.. :o)  (I didn't go look for it because this is a text-only 
term with no lynx.)
	Hrm.  I still like the altered langauge better, but now I see that
it's not really necessary.  If review of the web page indicates that the
change will endanger that old game custom somehow (unlikely), I'll cut it
out.  Also, if anyone objects to the change, send me mail and I'll cut it 
out.  Otherwise, I'll just propose it as is.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:02:53 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  protoproposal

Mohammed wrote:

> Hrm.  I still like the altered langauge better, but now I see that
> it's not really necessary.  If review of the web page indicates that the
> change will endanger that old game custom somehow (unlikely), I'll cut it
> out.  Also, if anyone objects to the change, send me mail and I'll cut it
> out.  Otherwise, I'll just propose it as is.

I object to the following changes in your RFC.  I will vote for it if
these changes are *not* included:

> 2.  A new rule is created, titled "Crime", reading:
> ---
> To break the Rules is a Crime, a Felony.
> 
> To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is a Crime.
> However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by
> contrast, impossible. An attempt to commit such an action is simply
> ignored.

This breaks game custom.  CFCJ 104 is a case of this, where an 
impermissable action never occurred, yet criminal preceedings still
occurred.  Furthermore, CFCJ 108 upheld this custom.  I object to this
change, because CFCJs are fun, and this will reduce them.  In other
words, in response to your other memo, this breaks game custom that
I wish preserved.

> 3.  Rule 362 ("No Dead Players Allowed") is amended to read, in full:

I would prefer you keep this as the Speaker.

> 6.  Rule 726 ("Party Hall") is amended by replacing

I have an amendment in the queue that has not been distributed yet
that amneds this crusty language of R 726 already.  Your's may be
better, but they will clash.  You should hold off, perhaps I'll retract
mine, after it is distributed (we can decide)

> c.  A Player who disobeys the Church Policy of a Church of
> which he or she is a member is guilty of Heresy, which is a
> Crime.  No Player may take a game action which constitutes
> Heresy if he or she has any legal alternative which would not
> constitute Heresy. 

You've got a definition of Heresy here which clashes with that in R 729,
and you have not defined the scope of your definition here.  It can
be argued that R 729 will have precedence, and this will not have the
intended effect, or that this definition will scope to define the Heresy
in R 729 as a crime, which I do not want.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:19:09 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  protoproposal

Malenkai wrote:
> 

> > 2.  A new rule is created, titled "Crime", reading:
> > ---
> > To break the Rules is a Crime, a Felony.
> >
> > To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is a Crime.
> > However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by
> > contrast, impossible. An attempt to commit such an action is simply
> > ignored.
> 
> This breaks game custom.  CFCJ 104 is a case of this, where an
> impermissable action never occurred, yet criminal preceedings still
> occurred.  Furthermore, CFCJ 108 upheld this custom.  I object to this
> change, because CFCJs are fun, and this will reduce them.  In other
> words, in response to your other memo, this breaks game custom that
> I wish preserved.

Just to follow up on this, wording that would preserve the game custom
might be:

"To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is a Crime.
However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by
contrast, impossible, yet it is still an Crime to attempt to perform
such an action, even though the act itself will not occur."

Another problem crawling in the back of my mind with this is that it
seems to legalize crime.  Crime now becomes an option under the rules,
in other words, it seems to become lawful to not follow the rules.  I
guess I  like the old way better, but I also like the ability to define
something as a crime.  For example, I wrote in a recent proposal that
if a player attempted to perform action X, they were deemed to have
broken the rules.  Crime would be cleaner language.

I guess the bottom line is that I want to preserve the CFCJ custom of
attempting to perform an impermissable action as criminal, regardless of
how its done.  It can be FUN :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:26:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

> > To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is a Crime.
> > However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by
> > contrast, impossible. An attempt to commit such an action is simply
> > ignored.
> 
> This breaks game custom.
	Thank you for all your comments.  I look forward to having your 
vote on this one, if it should turn out that way.  *smile*
	I still want to contrast Illegality with impermissibility, 
though.  How's this:

} However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by 
} contrast, impossible.  Such actions may be attempted, but not 
} successfully completed; attempting an impermissible action is 
} Illegal.

> > 6.  Rule 726 ("Party Hall") is amended by replacing
> 
> I have an amendment in the queue that has not been distributed yet
> that amneds this crusty language of R 726 already.  Your's may be
> better, but they will clash.  You should hold off, perhaps I'll retract
> mine, after it is distributed (we can decide)
	Okay, it'll probably be a few days before I submit the Crime bill
anyway.

> You've got a definition of Heresy here which clashes with that in R 729,
> and you have not defined the scope of your definition here.  It can
> be argued that R 729 will have precedence, and this will not have the
> intended effect, or that this definition will scope to define the Heresy
> in R 729 as a crime, which I do not want.
	I think the latter is a better interpretation-- certainly -not- 
what was intended!  Even worse, if it were specified that no 
one can commit a Heretical act if they have a legal alternative, no one 
would legally be able to suggest the truth about the shape of the world, 
since they always have the legal alternative of silence.

- --Mohammed
*grin*

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:29:00 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Grab-a-Donkey (R 2)

Round 2 of Grab-A-Donkey is beginning.  Don't get caught *admiring*
your donkey!  Get your moves in.  The current GAL follows.  It can
also be found at:
 
http://www.itw.com/~malenkai/ackagal.htm

Round Ends Tuesday, October 15 1996, 12:30 EDT

Once CFJ 304 comes back, I will have enough to make technical corrections
to the rule.  As for the endgame, we'll see...

Malenka
Wrangler
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Bascule (Matt Black) [[email-masked]]
Calvin N Hobbes (Thierry Joffrain) [[email-masked]]
/dev/joe (Joseph DeVincentis) [[email-masked]]
Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin) [[email-masked]]
Habeous Corpus (Ed Graham) [[email-masked]]
IdiotBoy (Matt Miller) [[email-masked]]
Mohammed (Jason Orendorff) [[email-masked]]
mr cwm (Eric Murray) [[email-masked]]
Niccolo Flychuck (Uri Bruck) [[email-masked]]
snowgod (Phil Ackley) [[email-masked]]
Techno (Jerome Herrman) [[email-masked]]
ThinMan (John Bollinger) [[email-masked]]
this is not a name (Mike Epstein) [[email-masked]]
Wayne (Wayne Sheppard) [[email-masked]]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:36:54 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

Mohammed wrote:
> 

> } However, an action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by
> } contrast, impossible.  Such actions may be attempted, but not
> } successfully completed; attempting an impermissible action is
> } Illegal.

I have submitted an alternative as well.  Either one works.

>         I think the latter is a better interpretation-- certainly -not-
> what was intended!  Even worse, if it were specified that no
> one can commit a Heretical act if they have a legal alternative, no one
> would legally be able to suggest the truth about the shape of the world,

What *are* the implications of this statement?  Is this guy Enlightened? :)

Malenkai
has a bronze torch, which is currently lit and burning...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:46:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> This breaks game custom.  CFCJ 104 is a case of this, where an 
> impermissable action never occurred, yet criminal preceedings still
> occurred.  Furthermore, CFCJ 108 upheld this custom.  I object to this
> change, because CFCJs are fun, and this will reduce them.  In other
> words, in response to your other memo, this breaks game custom that
> I wish preserved.

We do need some consistency here.  Recently for example, IdiotBoy 
attempted to don a Prosthetic Forehead while still recovering from a sore 
head.  /dev/joe explained that since this was impossible, it never 
occurred.  Or did it, meaning IB broke the rules?  Basically what I'm 
asking is which violations do we treat as though they never happened, and 
which ones do we send for the CFCJ?  See Steve's treatise for more details.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 12:09:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

On Sat, 12 Oct 1996, Mohammed wrote:

> 	I think the latter is a better interpretation-- certainly -not- 
> what was intended!  Even worse, if it were specified that no 
> one can commit a Heretical act if they have a legal alternative, no one 
> would legally be able to suggest the truth about the shape of the world, 
> since they always have the legal alternative of silence.
> 
> --Mohammed
> *grin*

Well, if the Speaker's registry is correct, Mohammed is not Enlightened.

Structure of Mo's statement:

Suppose P1 and P2 to be true; if they are, C is true.
	
	P1: No one can commit Heresy if they have a legal alternative.
	P2: Players always have the legal alternative of silence.  [Note: 
	    failing this, they always have the legal alternative of quitting.]

	C:  No one can legally suggest the truth about the shape of the world.

The proper conclusion of this syllogism is, "No one can commit Heresy."  
Mohammed presents "No one can legally suggest the truth about the shape 
of the world" as its equivalent, implying that suggesting the truth about 
the shape of the world is Heresy.  At this point in time, no other 
activity has been defined as Heresy other than stating or implying the 
earth is not flat, so this implication can be carried further: Mo 
suggests that stating the earth is not flat is equivalent to suggesting 
the truth about the shape of the world.

Witchhunt, anyone?

Guy Fawkes
who finds it ironic that no one's tried to burn him, yet

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 13:28:25 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: protoproposal

Guy Fawkes wrote:

> We do need some consistency here.  Recently for example, IdiotBoy
> attempted to don a Prosthetic Forehead while still recovering from a sore
> head.  /dev/joe explained that since this was impossible, it never
> occurred.  Or did it, meaning IB broke the rules?  Basically what I'm
> asking is which violations do we treat as though they never happened, and
> which ones do we send for the CFCJ?  See Steve's treatise for more details.

My take is that IdiotBoy's action *was* against the rules, and did not
occur, but *could* have been CFCJed like the cases of CFCJ 104 and 
CFCJ 108.  Just because it could have been CFCJed does not mean that
it must be.  Its a question of spirit and game effect.  Certainlly, if
you CFCJ that forehead business, it will most likely be judged TRUE,
and deemed never to have occurred.

People break the rules all the time.  In IdiotBoy's case, it seemed petty
to CFCJ it.  For example, the Appointer and Tabulator are both currently
breaking the Speed rule.  In my case, I use spirit to determine if
I will CFCJ a rules violation that I see.  I know I break the rules as
well.  For example, it could be argued that I broke the rules by not
accurately recording IdiotBoy's bond holdings.

I feel the CFCJs we *have* done are appropriate, as are the ones we have
*not* done, in most cases.

Malenkai

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #290
*******************************