Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #235
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest     Saturday, September 14 1996     Volume 01 : Number 235

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 96 14:35:35 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 1242

Proposal 1242 - Sat Sep 14 14:35:35 EDT 1996
Amending the rules about scoring for amendments to the scoring rules
/dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)

This is a modest proposal.

1. Amend rule 793, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:<BR>

 "If a proposal adds, changes, or repeals rules that generate effects
  (including but not limited to score changes) based on the way players vote,
  then the additions, changes, or repeals in that proposal shall not apply
  to that proposal."

2. Amend Rule 1089.2, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:

   "This rule defers precedence to R 793 where there is a conflict."

{{[ Rule 1089.2 section 5 is a better version of the text I'm deleting
    from rule 793 -- it just turns off the scoring rules being amended
    for the proposal that amends them, if the proposal passes. 
    This just narrowly failed before, so I'm trying it as a modest proposal.]}}

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:39:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Prop 1188 (supreme court)

Malenkai wrote:
> Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> > > Amend Rule 589, by adding this new paragraph to the end:
> > >
> > > Any CFJ which would constitute a win by rule 219 if it were judged TRUE
> > > (hereafter called a Paradox Win CFJ) whose statement is substantially
> > > similar, in the judgement of the judge, to the statement of a Paradox
> > > Win CFJ submitted by any player and not yet resolved, shall be judged
> > > Invalid.  Any Paradox Win CFJ which is based on the same sort of Paradox,
> > > in the judgement of the judge, as any Paradox Win CFJ ever judged TRUE,
> > > shall be judged Invalid.

> > By the above addition to rule 589, if the supreme court sticks to the same
> > reasoning on CFJ 269, it must be judged Invalid.

> I don't think so.  At least if judgements must be made in accordance
> with the rules "then in effect".  There is a CFJ questioning this right now,
> I believe, but game custom indicates that "then in effect" should be
> rendered to mean "the time the CFJ was originally called".

I believe that while the rules "then in effect" should be used when
appropriate to determine the truth of the statement, the rules at the
time a judgement is issued should determine how a judgement is to be
made.  For example, if we have a new CotC, or the rules are changed so
that CFJ judgements should be mailed to the CSRR Officer, or if the
rules are changed so that we now have "YES" and "NO" judgements instead
of TRUE and FALSE, these changes should take effect immediately, including
all CFJ's currently outstanding and not yet judged.  As somebody (Malenkai?)
pointed out regarding CFJ 280, if the rules are changed such that a
CFJ 5000 years old can be appealed, then it can be appealed even though
it could not be appealed for some time before the rules were changed.

> For example, CFJ 256 was judged TRUE *after* the paradoxical contract rule
> suite was repealed, thus eliminating the paradox.
> 
> CFJ 269 was judged TRUE *after* /dev/joe's fix to internal rule precedence
> neutered the alleged paradox.
> 
> This is the same thing.  The rules "then in effect", would not have required
> the verdict of Invalid as /dev/joe indicates, and I will appeal such
> a verdict, if it is delivered on these grounds.

This *isn't* the same thing, as I've pointed out, above.  There's a
difference between the rules governing how to make judgements, and the
rules related to the statement of the CFJ.

A CFJ can certainly require the examination of a repealed rule, even one
already repealed at the time the CFJ is submitted.  For example, to correct
some recent error just before the rule was repealed -- suppose I forget to
add some points for a short proposal, and then the part of R207 that gives
points for short proposals is removed.  Within the time limit of rule 1089.2,
a CFJ can still restore those points.  This is true whether the CFJ was
submitted before or after the rule was changed.

A CFJ cannot require that the judge ignore the "Invalid" judgement
for unclear CFJs, CFJs with multiple statements, duplicate CFJs by the
same player, or the conditions added by P1188, regardless of when that
CFJ was submitted, and regardless of what time the statement of the CFJ
concerns.  If I was to submit a CFJ on "at the beginning of the game,
there were no players, and thus no legal way to register as a player,
thus there are still no players and everything we've done in Ackanomic
has been illegal" and it is judged False, and then I submit the same
CFJ again, within a week of submitting the first CFJ, the second one
should be judged Invalid, even though it requires the consideration of
the rules in effect at the beginning of the game when there was no
"Invalid" judgement.

> There is a basic loophole here, as pointed out by another player.  Keep
> appealing a CFJ until a rule comes in to fix it.

Yeah, I noticed that. :-)  But it only applies in limited circumstances,
such as changing the rules for delivering judgement.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:47:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1242

ATTENTION!!!  Had this passed the first time around, the Scroll of Money 
would have been a valid proposal.  1089.2 covers only points, whereas 793 
is covers points, money, and any other form of proposal bribery.

Guy Fawkes

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 [email-masked] wrote:

> Proposal 1242 - Sat Sep 14 14:35:35 EDT 1996
> Amending the rules about scoring for amendments to the scoring rules
> /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)
> 
> This is a modest proposal.
> 
> 1. Amend rule 793, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:<BR>
> 
>  "If a proposal adds, changes, or repeals rules that generate effects
>   (including but not limited to score changes) based on the way players vote,
>   then the additions, changes, or repeals in that proposal shall not apply
>   to that proposal."
> 
> 2. Amend Rule 1089.2, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:
> 
>    "This rule defers precedence to R 793 where there is a conflict."
> 
> {{[ Rule 1089.2 section 5 is a better version of the text I'm deleting
>     from rule 793 -- it just turns off the scoring rules being amended
>     for the proposal that amends them, if the proposal passes. 
>     This just narrowly failed before, so I'm trying it as a modest proposal.]}}
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:15:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: New Proposal

RFC
No Business Like Gnome Business
Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

Amend Rule 355 to read in full:

"I propose to create a nomic entity known as the Voting Gnome.  The 
Voting Gnome will serve one function, and that is to cast one vote on any 
proposal.  Because of several near-death experiences and extended times 
of not knowing who his buddy really is, the Voting Gnome has become an 
extreme manic-depressive.

The Gnome is just as likely to vote YES as he is to vote NO, and there is 
no way to predict his mood.  At the end of a proposal's voting period, the 
Tabulator shall randomly determine whether the Gnome will vote YES or NO, 
and the Gnome shall vote as randomly determined."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:18:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Retracting p1242

Guy Fawkes wrote erroneously:
> ATTENTION!!!  Had this passed the first time around, the Scroll of Money 
> would have been a valid proposal. 

This is not true.  If it had passed, then Rule 793 would still say:

  A proposal is invalid if the rule change or resolution it contains
  discriminates in any way between players based on the way they vote
  on that proposal.

I re-submitted this proposal as a modest proposal since it so narrowly
failed the first time around.

> 1089.2 covers only points, whereas 793 
> is covers points, money, and any other form of proposal bribery.

This part of Guy's argument is correct, though.  I wish he had pointed this
out while the first version was being voted on.  While proposals like the
scroll of money are still invalid, it becomes unclear whether a rule that
says "each player who votes for a proposal that passes is given A$1 from
the treasury" applies to the proposal that created it, and if it should
apply to that proposal, then the remaining part of rule 793 should have
made the proposal invalid.

Rule 793 has been needing to be fixed for a while, anyway, to prevent
abuses like the scroll d'argent & wully bully.  I will work on a new
version of R793; I think I want to change the part that P1242 would have
removed to make it more like P1089.2 section 5, and "that proposal"
in the first sentence of R793 should be "any one or more specific
proposals", but this needs to be done carefully, because I don't want
to accidentally ban things like modesty or "cows eat grass".

I hereby retract proposal 1242.

> > Proposal 1242 - Sat Sep 14 14:35:35 EDT 1996
> > Amending the rules about scoring for amendments to the scoring rules
> > /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)
> > 
> > This is a modest proposal.
> > 
> > 1. Amend rule 793, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:<BR>
> > 
> >  "If a proposal adds, changes, or repeals rules that generate effects
> >   (including but not limited to score changes) based on the way players vote,
> >   then the additions, changes, or repeals in that proposal shall not apply
> >   to that proposal."
> > 
> > 2. Amend Rule 1089.2, by deleting the following sentence wherever it appears:
> > 
> >    "This rule defers precedence to R 793 where there is a conflict."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:20:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal

> RFC
> No Business Like Gnome Business
> Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
> 
> Amend Rule 355 to read in full:
> 
> "I propose to create a nomic entity known as the Voting Gnome.  The 
> Voting Gnome will serve one function, and that is to cast one vote on any 
> proposal.  Because of several near-death experiences and extended times 
> of not knowing who his buddy really is, the Voting Gnome has become an 
> extreme manic-depressive.
> 
> The Gnome is just as likely to vote YES as he is to vote NO, and there is 
> no way to predict his mood.  At the end of a proposal's voting period, the 
> Tabulator shall randomly determine whether the Gnome will vote YES or NO, 
> and the Gnome shall vote as randomly determined."

I like this.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:24:17 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Guy Fawkes 

>does PFfrozenwaterdiety exist, or it still PFsnowgod?  If 
>PFfrozenwaterdiety is indeed a valid PF, I am interested.  If it is not, 
>I am much more interested in trading 25PFGuy for 25PFsnowgod.
>
>Guy Fawkes
>doesn't want to get caught in name-change loophole

There is a provision for "all Ackanomic business" to be changed to
reflect a player's new name, but it is not clear whether this
applies to PFBonds.  My position, until and unless a CFJ determines
otherwise, is that PFBonds do not change.  Indeed, there is no
requirement that I can find that PFs be labelled with a derivative
of the associated player's Ackanomic name at all -- that was just
the custom established by the first Financier, which I have adhered
to.  In any case frozenwaterdiety's PFBonds would change to PFfrozenw
if they changed to anything.

ThinMan
Financier
Jazz Jackrabbit
PF label-assigner

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:31:10 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Prop 1188 (supreme court) -- Financier

>Matt Miller wrote:
>> 
>> > From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
>> > Malenkai
>> > Selling PFMalenkai (10 @ A$140)
>> 
>> SOLD!
>
>> No nonMalenkai player holds more PF Malenkai than IdiotBoy
>
>Not yet, my friend.  I still must ack the transaction.  I ack the
>transaction.
>
>Would the financier please note this transfer.

So noted.

ThinMan
Financier
Jazz Jackrabbit

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:48:09 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ra: Acka: proto RFC about institutions

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Malenkai wrote:

> Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > The difference is that you want to legislate a membership in a Church. The
> > Markovian Church, like all Parties, is a voluntary organization. This is a
> > violation of Individuality.
> 
> That statement is FALSE; I don't ever remembersaying that.  I am
> advocating the F.O.s forming a church, but I cannot join, as I am already
> in one.

In that case, there is no problem, thanks for clearing that up. I have no
intention of joining such a Church, should it be formed.

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> Originally I had wanted an organization legislated for functional
> officers, for greed, corruption, power, all that fun stuff, but changed
> my mind to a church.
> 
> Malenkai
> suffering from, and aiding, the second great e-mail blizzard
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:44:53 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> > RFC
> > No Business Like Gnome Business
> > Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
> >
> > Amend Rule 355 to read in full:

> I like this.
> 
> /dev/joe

I wonder if Wayne and his scripts will, I guess it shouldn't be that
hard.  I have put in yet another proposal to kill the gnome, about 10
minutes ago.  If anyone has too much time on their hands, it would be
interesting to count the number of attempts to appeal this rule.

In any case, I will vote for this amendment as well.  I wish we had
conditional rule changes, so you could create this rule if my attempt
to kill the gnome succeeds this time, I would like both this and the
Goose.

Perhaps you could wait until my proposal clears?

Malenkai
likes harfy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:51:51 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Retracting p1242

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Rule 793 has been needing to be fixed for a while, anyway, to prevent
> abuses like the scroll d'argent & wully bully. 

"abuses"? I resent the implication. ;)

Those proposals set up an interesting situation as discussed in
Metamagical Themas, I believe.  Actually, its Scroll of Money that
does that; I just wanted to explore the idea without the burden of
R 793's restrictions on Scroll of Money.  

I actually believe preventing this sort of abuse may be difficult, as it
seems you can push it farther, and farther, away from the rule, each time
the rule is patched.  I'll try to loophole surf an RFC of an R 793 rewrite
for this type of abuse, if you would like.

Malenkai
Benign loophole surfer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:53:14 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Trombone

In accordance with Rule 762,  I believe I may claim possession of the
Great Trombone of Ackanomia.  I hereby so claim.

Habeous Corpus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:58:04 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > 
> > The Gnome is just as likely to vote YES as he is to vote NO, and there is 
> > no way to predict his mood.  At the end of a proposal's voting period, the 
> > Tabulator shall randomly determine whether the Gnome will vote YES or NO, 
> > and the Gnome shall vote as randomly determined."
> 
> I like this.
> 
> /dev/joe

I like it, but I can't see myself voting for this.  I think it should be
labeled as a sarcastic proposal, and get 0+10i pointsif it passes.

/dev - how about legislating some complex scores?
:)

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:53:14 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Entities

It has been approximately a week since submitting my RFC on Extranomic
Entities.  Since the ONLY response to it has been a suggestion to
institute Taxation in Ackanomia.  This alone has had any debate. 
Therefore,  I will concentrate on the changes necessary to make it work
in Internomic and forget the Acka version.

There seems to be some who would relish the exportation of most or all
Entities to Anywhere Else.  Good luck.  I have more enitiy Proposals
waiting.

Habeous Corpus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:53:14 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Re: Praetor

I'm still not sure how much this adds to the game,  which is why i
haven't bothered to comment lately on it.  But I did want to say,  as a
matter of encouragement,  that it appears very well written,  and if one
last area would get cleaned up,  I would support it.  

Guy Fawkes fixed the part about Prosthetic Foreheads,  but what about
SVH's.  My interpretation of Rules 937 and 210 may invalidate this Rule.

Otherwise,  nicely done.  PFGuy may see a jump soon.

Habeous Corpus
Feeding the Blizzard

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:13:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Retracting p1242

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Guy Fawkes wrote erroneously:
> > ATTENTION!!!  Had this passed the first time around, the Scroll of Money 
> > would have been a valid proposal. 
> 
> This is not true.  If it had passed, then Rule 793 would still say:

I stand corrected.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:21:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Uri Bruck wrote:

> /dev - how about legislating some complex scores?
> :)
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck

There was an email nomic that started about the same time as this one 
called the Net Waste of Time.  Its web page is still around, if you care 
to look for it hard enough.  Early on in its history, it created complex 
scoring.  They did not anticipate, and did not prepare for, the loopholes it 
introduced.  Judging from the proposals they left sitting about in their 
queue when they went under, it may have killed them.

Guy Fawkes
a little math is a dangerous thing

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:27:27 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Prop 1188 (supreme court) -- Financier

From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> Matt Miller wrote:
>
> > No nonMalenkai player holds more PF Malenkai than IdiotBoy
> 
> Not yet, my friend.  I still must ack the transaction.  I ack the
> transaction.

Actually this was true even before.  My ads are always factual, if a bit
misleading (I didn't just say that did I?)
The fact the one one owned LESS PFMalenkai than me would never make my ads.

IdiotBoy

Advertisement:
This ads are wholly completely unequivocally true.  Just ask IdiotBoy!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:29:56 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBond market

From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
>
> A truly volatile stock, eh? Wow; my PF bonds are more active than I am.
> 
> So, out of curiosity, what's the IdiotBoy rating for PFIdiotBoy? If
> mine are volatile, yours must be actively exothermic.
> 
> breadbox

Actually, PFIdiotBoys were rated at B+, as little as a few days ago.  They are
very close to becoming an A rating.  Inside information indicates a large influx
of points into the account of IdiotBoy.

IdiotBoy

Advertisement:
No of the above is hype.  All the hype is in these ads.  Go, IdiotBoy, go!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:48:49 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: PFBonds - Latest Quotes.

Buying:
PFGuy  (25 @ A$30) [risk rated B by IdiotBoy]
PFBascule (25 @ A$75) [risk rated AA by IdiotBoy]
PFHabeous  (20 @ A$150)  [risk rated AAA by IdiotBoy]
PFTechno  (20 @ A$100)  [risked rated A by IdiotBoy]

Selling:

PFIdiotBoy (30 @ (30 PFWayne || 30PFbreadbox) [risk rated B+ by IdiotBoy]
	Rumors already circulating about the effect of the so called "coup" proposals
on this one.  Don't miss your chance to make some quick A$.

PFMalenkai (10 @ A$175) [risk rated AAA by IdiotBoy]
	These have recently been quoted at A$190 on the open bond market. A real
steal!

IdiotBoy - your source for quality investment advice.
- --
Matt Miller
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:27:34 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, robert gene shimmin wrote:

> 
> 
> On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Uri Bruck wrote:
> 
> > /dev - how about legislating some complex scores?
> > :)
> > 
> > Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> There was an email nomic that started about the same time as this one 
> called the Net Waste of Time.  Its web page is still around, if you care 
> to look for it hard enough.  Early on in its history, it created complex 
> scoring.  They did not anticipate, and did not prepare for, the loopholes it 
> introduced.  Judging from the proposals they left sitting about in their 
> queue when they went under, it may have killed them.
> 
> Guy Fawkes
> a little math is a dangerous thing
> 
Didn't hear of them , but I once started tinkering with the idea myself.
Saw major potential problems, and no real benefits, no imaginary benefits
either - gave it up.

Niccolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 23:30:58 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBonds - Latest Quotes.

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Matt Miller wrote:

> Buying:
> PFGuy  (25 @ A$30) [risk rated B by IdiotBoy]
> PFBascule (25 @ A$75) [risk rated AA by IdiotBoy]
> PFHabeous  (20 @ A$150)  [risk rated AAA by IdiotBoy]
> PFTechno  (20 @ A$100)  [risked rated A by IdiotBoy]

What happened to the previous high demand for PFNiccolo ?

> 
> Selling:
> 
> PFIdiotBoy (30 @ (30 PFWayne || 30PFbreadbox) [risk rated B+ by IdiotBoy]
> 	Rumors already circulating about the effect of the so called "coup" proposals
> on this one.  Don't miss your chance to make some quick A$.
> 
> PFMalenkai (10 @ A$175) [risk rated AAA by IdiotBoy]
> 	These have recently been quoted at A$190 on the open bond market. A real
> steal!
> 
> IdiotBoy - your source for quality investment advice.
> --
> Matt Miller
> [email-masked]
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:41:35 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBonds - Latest Quotes.

From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
> On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Matt Miller wrote:
> 
> > Buying:
> > PFGuy  (25 @ A$30) [risk rated B by IdiotBoy]
> > PFBascule (25 @ A$75) [risk rated AA by IdiotBoy]
> > PFHabeous  (20 @ A$150)  [risk rated AAA by IdiotBoy]
> > PFTechno  (20 @ A$100)  [risked rated A by IdiotBoy]
> 
> What happened to the previous high demand for PFNiccolo ?
>
I try to keep my total potential outlay (i.e. if everyone sold me all the
PFBonds I ask for) below what I have in my cash reserves.  The recent upsurge in
the price of PFNiccolo made it an attractive buy for most traders (those who
read my lastest Hot Tips newletter will take note of the buy recommendation).  
This means PFNiccolo (traded in any substantial quantity) is priced out of my
range for the moment.  

IdiotBoy

Advertisement:
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:04:42 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Re: Poetry

This is a test.
This is only a test.
If this were a real poem
It would have Brinjal's name on it.
His are the best.

Habeous Corpus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:39:16 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ra: Acka: proto RFC about institutions 

>>
>> For example, I had proposed an idea of an institution comprising all of
>> the functional officers. It seems like a church would be more appropriate
>> for now, but I don't believe I would be able to join it.

I don't think a player should be allowed to me a member in two diffrent
churches.  Or if the rules allow it, they should at least defer to the
churches so that each individual church may decide if it allows joint
membership.  I think an organization of functionals officers should not be
a church...

just my two cents,
frozenwaterdiety

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:39:21 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Guy Fawkes Again 

since it appears that i still have Pfsnow...

I will trade Guy Fawkes 25 pfsnow for 25 pfguy.  Could the Financier please
note this transaction upon Guy's acceptance?

frozenwaterdiety

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:39:33 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: New Proposal 

>RFC
>No Business Like Gnome Business
>Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)

ROFL!!!

But be warned, I tried something like this once with a entity called a
"wimbly" and it failed because no one wanted an entity which could cast
votes willy-nilly.

frozenwaterdiety
living with the typo
losing weight

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:49:02 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: Re: Poetry 

>This is a test.
>This is only a test.
>If this were a real poem
>It would have Brinjal's name on it.
>His are the best.
>
>Habeous Corpus

Perhaps Mr. Corpus should be our new Gaoler.  He seems much more capable of
writing awful poetry than Brinjal :)

Just kidding,
frozenwaterdiety

frozenwaterdiety

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:49:08 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: More Interactivity 

Was it IdiotBoy that had the MOO?

Anyhow, I would be itnersted ing etting an account there.  In the past I
have been playing aroun (creating a small virtual nomic - or at least
trying) on the meadow, but it would seem like more fun to create where
there are other existing nomic players...

so whaddya say IdiotBoy?

frozenwaterdiety
getting skinny :)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:51:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Guy Fawkes Again

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:

> since it appears that i still have Pfsnow...
> 
> I will trade Guy Fawkes 25 pfsnow for 25 pfguy.  Could the Financier please
> note this transaction upon Guy's acceptance?
> 
> frozenwaterdiety

This is Guy's acceptance.

Would the Financier please take note.

Guy Fawkes.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:44:07 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: More Interactivity

From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
> Was it IdiotBoy that had the MOO?
> 
Yup!

> Anyhow, I would be itnersted ing etting an account there.  In the past I
> have been playing aroun (creating a small virtual nomic - or at least
> trying) on the meadow, but it would seem like more fun to create where
> there are other existing nomic players...
> 
> so whaddya say IdiotBoy?
> 
Done.  If anyone else is interested, let me know.  I have an idea for an
"Auction" verb on the MOO.  Players would enter what they want to auction, and a
time limit.  As each bid comes in, payers in the auction are notified.  At the
end of the auction the transaction is sent to the acknomic mailing list for the
Financier to take note of.  How PFbondcentric of me!

> frozenwaterdiety
> getting skinny :)
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
> IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of
mention
> of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get
your
> bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
> 
IdiotBoy
Dang, that ad looks familiar!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:50:28 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: PFBonds - Hot Tips Newletter.

That's right, in some of my ads I have mentioned my Hot Tips newsletter, which
includes buy/sell/hold recommendations for ALL currently traded PFBonds.  This
sheet allows subscribers to plan their entire PFBond strategy for one full
week,
without being forced to follow all the intricacies of the PFbond market. 
Currently serving more than 0 subscribers!  Ask IdiotBoy for details on how to
subscribe.  Mention this ad and receive 3 weeks of the Hot Tips newsletter for
only A$15.  (That's 50% off the cover price).
 
IdiotBoy
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:00:57 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Auction 

The Auction for the Vending Machine ends in 7 hours (3:54 AM Eastern
Timezone).  I will announce the final results then.  If you wish to make a
bid at any time until then, please feel free to do so.  The high bid for
the Vending Machine is currently A$115, bid by IdiotBoy

Chief Cheese

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 20:45:09 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: New Proposal 

>RFC
>No Business Like Gnome Business
>Guy Fawkes (Robert Shimmin)
>
>Amend Rule 355 to read in full:
>
>"I propose to create a nomic entity known as the Voting Gnome.  The 
>Voting Gnome will serve one function, and that is to cast one vote on any 
>proposal.  Because of several near-death experiences and extended times 
>of not knowing who his buddy really is, the Voting Gnome has become an 
>extreme manic-depressive.
>
>The Gnome is just as likely to vote YES as he is to vote NO, and there is 
>no way to predict his mood.  At the end of a proposal's voting period, the 
>Tabulator shall randomly determine whether the Gnome will vote YES or NO, 
>and the Gnome shall vote as randomly determined."

You know, I like this.  Speaking as one who has contributed to the Gnome's
manic-depression, I think that this is an improvement over the current
scheme.

One comment, however: as long as you are amending the rule, why not fix up
the first sentence and remove the quotation marks?

ThinMan
would-be Gnome repealer
Jazz Jackrabbit

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:43:33 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Mac_Moose Stuff 

IdiotBoy,

I used to have a file somewhere that listed all of the changes that needed
to be made to the code, but I can't find it.  I did find the following
though, it's out of the Mac-Moose readme.  I think if you go to that URL
you should find everything you need...

>The most recent version of MacMOOSE is available from
>http://asb.www.media.mit.edu/people/asb/MacMOOSE/.  If you wish to enable
>MacMOOSE editing on your MOO, you will need to install $MacMOOSE_utils, which
> are also available on that web page.

Hope that Helps,
snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:52:05 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Official 

In accordance with the will of my constituants, I am invoking R973 to
declare a Festival of Torkola with a duration of two days, beginning
tommorow.

frozenwaterdiety
president

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:56:41 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Mac_Moose Stuff 

I apologize for this off-topic post.  This was supposed to be sent only to
IdiotBoy.

frozenwaterdiety

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:00:08 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Guy Fawkes Again 

>On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:
>
>> since it appears that i still have Pfsnow...
>> 
>> I will trade Guy Fawkes 25 pfsnow for 25 pfguy.  Could the Financier please
>> note this transaction upon Guy's acceptance?
>> 
>> frozenwaterdiety
>
>This is Guy's acceptance.
>
>Would the Financier please take note.
>
>Guy Fawkes.

So noted, and I will assume you both are using "PFsnow" as shorthand for PFsnowgod.
Otherwise, the transaction is invalid.

ThinMan
Financier
Jazz Jackrabbit

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:59:58 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBonds - Hot Tips Newletter. 

The Steel Flea Gazette would be interested in reviewing this newsletter of
yours, however the price is too prohibitive.  However, if you were willing
to offer a comp issue, I would post a non-biased review in the next issue
of SFG.

Just make sure the quality really is there though... I have an obligation
to my readers to provide only the finest in non-biased reporting, and i
will not stoop to "fibbing" a review.

frozenwaterdiety
publisher

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:11:57 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Phillip R. Ackley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Guy Fawkes Again

On Sat, 14 Sep 1996, John Bollinger wrote:
> So noted, and I will assume you both are using "PFsnow" as shorthand for PFsnowgod.
> Otherwise, the transaction is invalid.
> 
> 
> ThinMan
> Financier
> Jazz Jackrabbit

You have assumed correctly.  Sorry for any inconvenience.

frozenwaterdiety (who is)
thinking that there used to be a rule about PF Bond names... (and)
using a UNIX shell for this message without a .sig file

* * * * * *4~! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Buy PF Bonds from IdiotBoy.  He's Good People!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 22:35:41 EDT 
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka Re: Proposal 1239

On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 /dev/joe wrote:

>This is a complicated solution to a simple problem.
>stuff...

I didn't write this proposal solely,  or even mostly,  because of your
comments on Flamingo.  I still do not see a problem with Notes spelling
out the conditions for text to be deleted at a later time.  I just saw no
provisions for conditionally deleted text,  something I am somewhat fond
of.  I agree that retraction and rewrite or amending (sometimes through
CSRR) are the better ways to fix a singular problem.  I saw a need to
codify something that,  granted,  may be rarely used.  I hope to make use
of this more often,  and I would prefer not to be challenged on the
strength of game custom.

My interpretation of the Notes Rule or its use by game custom should not
present a problem with my using it in the context of the Flamingo
Proposal.  I do admit,  however,  that having the square bracketed text
itself conditionally self delete may be a problem,  one which _this_
Proposal does not address.  If it does create a problem,  I would hope
that a CSRR would fix it,  and not an expensive rewrite or cheesy
ammendment Proposal.

I do appreciate you pointing this out in your original comments on
Flamingo,  but I wish you hadn't pointed out the indeterminate clause
publicly before the vote was complete,  I was hoping to keep my arguments
on it private until it was challenged. 8-)

Habeous Corpus

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:01:30 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBonds - Hot Tips Newletter. 

The Steel Flea Gazette would be interested in reviewing this newsletter of
yours, however the price is too prohibitive.  However, if you were willing
to offer a comp issue, I would post a non-biased review in the next issue
of SFG.

Just make sure the quality really is there though... I have an obligation
to my readers to provide only the finest in non-biased reporting, and i
will not stoop to "fibbing" a review.

frozenwaterdiety
publisher

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:01:36 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Auction 

The Current High Bid for the Vending Machine is A$125, bid by Habeous Corpus

frozenwaterdiety

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** *
IdiotBoy is The Authority on the PFBond market.  The mention or lack of mention
of a particular bond in IdiotBoy's quotes can send a bond up or down.  Get your
bond listed on IdiotBoy's latest quotes page, just ask him how.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #235
*******************************