Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #224
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest     Thursday, September 12 1996     Volume 01 : Number 224

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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:19:31 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Official

 From: Joseph W. DeVincentis <[email-masked]>
> /dev/joe
> Map-Harfer
> Web-Harfer
> Scorekeeper
> This space is not for sale.

That's ok, I'm more interested in this space.  Or perhaps the space just below
this space.

IdiotBoy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:21:24 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official R 115

In accordance with R 115, I am instantiating an entity known as 
the "Cheese Box".  The Cheese Box shall have the following properties:

1) It shall be chartreuse, with a Golden Frog painted on its lid, and
the number 703 painted on each side.

2) It shall be indestructable by any entity other than the player Malenkai

3) Malenkai, and no other entity, may place objects in, or remove
objects from, the Cheese Box.  It has a capacity of 703 objects.

4) Any object in the Cheese Box is indestructable by any entity.  No
object in the Cheese Box may be manipulated in any way by any entity
other than Malenkai (except the implicit manipulation done by the
Cheese Box itself, as applicable). 

Next, in accordance with R 115, I am instantiating an entity known as
the Scroll of Money.  The Scroll of Money shall have the name "Malenkai"
listed on it, and no other.

Next, in accordance with R 115, I am placing the Scroll of Money in
the Cheese Box.

Malenkai
Cheesy Loophole Surfer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 23:43:51 -0400
From: this is not a name <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212

>This proposal, if passed, would have the effect of making idiot boy
>president forever, since it is not self deleting text.  Furthermor, it
>usurps the other rules on matters of removing officers.  However, I'm not
>too worried :)

Not necessarily. It would be entirely possible to create a new rule, 
number it, say, 50, and make it take precedence, all in one proposal.

tinan
Fight Inexplicable Sayings -- Join AARP

- --      Mike Epstein            
    [email-masked]        "Makes your fingers fall off."
   [email-masked]             --Mistranslated KFC ad
http://www.bozosoft.com/mike/   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 23:44:35 -0400
From: this is not a name <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1219

>The official time of Ackanomia shall be Central US (UTC -0600).

This doesn't take daylight savings into account. Central time is now 
- -0500.

- --      Mike Epstein            "The Internet, of course, is more than 
    [email-masked]         just a place to find pictures of
   [email-masked]        people having sex with dogs."
http://www.bozosoft.com/mike/                      --Time, 3 July 1995

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 23:53:47 -0400
From: this is not a name <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218

>> Proposal 1218 - Wed Sep 11 13:51:02 EDT 1996
>> Scroll of Money
>> Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
>> 
>> There shall be a protected entity call the Scroll of Money.  This scroll
>> will list the names of the players who voted for the proposal that
>> created this rule.  The scroll will exist unchanged until this Rule
>> is modified or repealed.
>> 
>> On the first Friday of every month, A$400 will be transfered from the
>> Treasury to each player who has thier name on the Scroll of Money.

Can someone explain to me how this does NOT violate R793?

>
>Rule 793/1 (Mutable)
>No Proposal Bribery
>/dev/joe (Joseph DeVincentis)
>
>       A proposal is invalid if the rule change or resolution it contains 
>discriminates in any way between players
>       based on the way they vote on that proposal. If a proposal adds, 
>changes, or repeals rules that generate effects
>       (including but not limited to score changes) based on the way 
>players vote, then the additions, changes, or
>       repeals in that proposal shall not apply to that proposal. 

- --      Mike Epstein            "And the beast shall come forth
    [email-masked]         surrounded by a roiling cloud of
   [email-masked]        vengeance. The house of the unbelievers
http://www.bozosoft.com/mike/    shall be razed and they shall be
                                 scorched to the earth. Their tags
                                 shall blink until the end of days."
                                            --The Book of Mozilla, 12:10

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:57:09 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1219

this is not a name wrote:
> 
> >The official time of Ackanomia shall be Central US (UTC -0600).
> 
> This doesn't take daylight savings into account. Central time is now
> -0500.

This "quick fix" has other problems as well.  For example, there are
explicit reference to Eastern Time in the rules, I believe, so it
will be untidy at best.

Also, the scope is unspecified.  Does that mean that the CotC and 
Promoter must mentally (or automatically) convert the time stamps on
their distributions?  Currently, the time stamps are there under the
auspices of R 115.  If they are not adjusted, it may be confusing.

Eastern time probably would have been a better choice, or better yet
"the time zone of the promoter" with all of the necessary legalese about
changing promoters, etc. but this is no big deal.

A better wording may have been: "The day is considered to begin when
the day begins in Austin, Texas, USA (or whatever)".  Then you need not
worry about that CST/CDT garbage.

This actually may be worse, who knows.  I've just been through 200
e-mails and am tired.  Mabye I should join 3 more nomics and PBEM
Diplomacy :)  My real job, also is, in part, e-mail administrator for
my company.  I see ALOT of e-mail per day.

Malenkai
likes netscape's mail client, despite what they say :)-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:03:28 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218 

>Proposal 1218 - Wed Sep 11 13:51:02 EDT 1996
>Scroll of Money
>Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
>
>There shall be a protected entity call the Scroll of Money.  This scroll
>will list the names of the players who voted for the proposal that
>created this rule.  The scroll will exist unchanged until this Rule
>is modified or repealed.
>
>On the first Friday of every month, A$400 will be transfered from the
>Treasury to each player who has thier name on the Scroll of Money.

Is "No Proposal Bribery" still a rule?  I don't recall it being repealed,
but I don't have web-access at the moment so I can't check it.  Anyhow, if
it is, wouldn't this rule be invalidated?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:03:33 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1220 

As president of Ackanomic, I oppose this proposal.  It would create extra
work for many of  the officers, and doesn't add any real value.  Buying
votes is a "shady" proposition, and should continue to remain rislky.  If
the proposal is retracted (or deemed invalid (or once upon a time cancelled
by a con-con) all money bribed sould be forfeit.

>Proposal 1220 - Wed Sep 11 14:25:02 EDT 1996
>Inflation
>/dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)
>
>Amend rule 566 by changing "A$100" to "A$250", and adding the following to
>the end of the rule:
>
>  When a proposal is retracted, the treasury returns all A$ paid to it for
>  the purpose of buying votes by this rule to the players who paid those A$.

snowgod

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:03:41 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212 

>Perhaps the rule could be repealed, but it is much harder to repeal
>a rule than it is to prevent it from passing in the first place.  Those
>of us who have tried before to repeal the Gnome know that well.  And,
>by the way, Wayne is foremost among anti-Gnome activists -- he knows
>exactly how hard it can be to get rid of something once it passes.
>
>Let this serve as additional urging to those who normally try to vote
>against the trend: please don't try that on these proposals by Wayne.
>We need every vote against them that we can get.
>
>
>ThinMan
>Freedom Fighter

Once again (Twice in a week, wow!) I find myself agreeing with ThinMan.
Everyone needs to vote NO on the "coup" proposals so we do not risk having
one of these dangerous items accepted.  Of course, this will give wayne his
gnome, but hey... If he can't repeal it he might at least control it :)

snowgod

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:03:45 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: Votes 

>Now purchaseing votes for the recent Underworld props from Wayne.
>Name your price.  All non-UW members take note.
>
>
>Techno
>"Don't learn the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

If I understand this right, I'm ROFL.  Of course, I'm already ROFL, I may
just be doing it for no appearent reason.

snowgod
pretty sure he's in the presense of brilliance

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:03:51 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Name Change 

I am changing my legal ackanomic name to SnowGod

SnowGod

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:12:24 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Also Invoking R115 

I am invoking R115 to create an acka enity known as a t-shirt.

I am intial creating 27 t-shirts, each of which reads "I survivedd the PF
Email Blizzard of '96" and has a picture of the gnome on the back.

I will sell thse T-shirts for A$10 a piece.

Furthermore, I am creating an acka-enitity known as a moth, that will
destroy and piece of acka-clothing (including t-shirts and sweatpants) not
created by snowgod or defined in the rules.

snowgod

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:18:22 -0900
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Financier, Please Note 

I am selling 25 Pfsnow to Techno for his high bid of A$150.

I may be willing to sell another lot for the right price.

snowgod

Ackanomic Ambassador - Liason to Internomic - President
Inventor - Former Senator (seat a)  - Heretic (4 times!) - Former CSRR
Priest, Church of the Markovian Dream - Member, None Yet
Wearing a prosthetic forehead - Fighting Forehead Discrimination

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
The rave reviews of IdiotBoy's financial prowess continue to pour in.  Look
at this quote from snowgod: 'I couldn't get more than A$75 for my PFsnow,
until IdiotBoy showed me the way.  Thanks, IdiotBoy!'
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:28:05 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Name Change

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> I am changing my legal ackanomic name to SnowGod
> 
> SnowGod

This name change brings up some interesting questions.  First of all,
on an anal level, the change was not accompanied by the reasoning and
other material required by R 570, so therefore probably didn't occur,
if something big was at stake.

On a more interesting level, is this a change at all?  Does game custom
have anything to say about the relavence of capitalization?  R 703
deals with the issue somewhat, but its relevance is not apparent late
at night.  

If P 1212 passed, would IdiotBoy become president?  If we start legislating
capitalization and other symbology of our "language", we may inch closer
to that formal system :)

I know in the rules, sometimes we say "protected", sometimes "Protected".
Uh oh.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:54:13 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Also Invoking R115

Phil Ackley wrote:

We've wasted so much bandwidth today, what's one more message?

> Furthermore, I am creating an acka-enitity known as a moth, that will
> destroy and piece of acka-clothing (including t-shirts and sweatpants) not
> created by snowgod or defined in the rules.

I am invoking R 115 to create Malenkai's Magic Bug Spray.  It kills all
extant moths.  Then I am putting the Bug Spray in my Cheesy Box.

What about the following:

I am creating a Cheesier Box with the following properties:

a) It can, and it cannot, be opened by Malenkai.
b) Its properties cannot be changed by any entity.

I am placing the Cheesier Box in the Cheesy Box.

CFJ:  The legality of Malenkai opening the Cheesier Box cannot be
determined with finality.

Reasoning: The CFJ 256 fix only applies to rules.  This is not a rule.
Yet the legality of the action of opening the box cannot be determined
with finality, due to its properties.

I'm too embarrased to submit it, although I believe it could be a valid
R 219 win.  Its kinda boring, I'm thinking of more creative cases.

The counter argument is that R 115 would apply again, despite the properties
of an R 115 entity, thus, opening it is not prohibited because the
clause above has no legal force whatever.  This pretty much would neuter
R 115 entities, in that any created could be destroyed under R 115 by
another player, even if the properties say that it is indestructable.

Malenkai
is anyone reading this after 200 messages?
I once offered bonds for free at the end of a really long message to see
if anyone read it.  In this market, I could never do that

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End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #224
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