Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #223
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest     Wednesday, September 11 1996     Volume 01 : Number 223

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 14:26:55 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 1183 Passes

Here are the voting results for : 1183
  Proposal 1183 - Wed Sep 04 11:33:38 EDT 1996
  Consolidation I
  Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Quorum met : 19 eligible voters -- 17 players cast votes

13 YES votes   6 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

Malenkai gains 10 points.  19 -> 29

13 YES votes:  
  Malenkai               FUN                  =  29               
  Brinjal                                     =   6               
  ThinMan                Vulcan               =   6               
  Niccolo Flychuck       Vulcan               =  -1               
  Bascule                FUN                  =   9               
  snowgod                (None Yet)           =   6               
  this is not a name     (None Yet)           =   6               
  Vulcan Unity vote                           =   0               
  /dev/joe               Vulcan               =  16               
  Techno                 Underworld           =   9               
  IdiotBoy               Underworld           =  -1               
  fnord                                       =   0               
  Wayne                  Underworld           =   9               

6 NO votes:  3 points each
  Robin Hood                                    3 -> 6            
  Mellon                                       15 -> 18           
  gnome                                       =   0               
  Habeous Corpus                                9 -> 12           
  Guy Fawkes                                    4 -> 7            
  breadbox                                      0 -> 3            

0 PRESENT votes:

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Bash                   Underworld           
  Calvin N Hobbes        FUN                  

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  Robert Sevin                                
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)           
  Pascal                                      
  Geezer                                      

New players who are not active:
  Tim                                         

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================
Proposal 1183 - Wed Sep 04 11:33:38 EDT 1996
Consolidation I
Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

This is a modest proposal

Repeal R 1136

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

Amend R 666, "End of Cycle", to make the following changes in the
order specifed:

1) reletter section k) to section l)

2) add a section k) after section j), reading:

k) If the cycle currently ending has exceeded 30 days in length, all
players who have been on vacation for the entire cycle are removed from
the game as if they have quit.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 14:31:33 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1217

> If, as snowgod believes, these propsals are part of a gnome hunt, then 
> why is this one modest?  While UW may laugh at what I'm about to say, 
> this is a coup attempt! 

I am rolling on the floor with laughter :)

Hey Guy, you are a nappie, right?  Why don't you come join UW while
we still have spots left?  Get in now before it is too late.

Wayne
Underworld Party Boss

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 14:36:32 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 1184 Passes

Here are the voting results for : 1184
  Proposal 1184 - Wed Sep 04 11:33:50 EDT 1996
  Oh Please Oh Please Oh Please Vote YES
  Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Quorum met : 19 eligible voters -- 17 players cast votes

18 YES votes   1 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

Malenkai gains 10 points.  29 -> 39

18 YES votes:  
  Robin Hood                                  =   6               
  Malenkai               FUN                  =  39               
  Brinjal                                     =   6               
  ThinMan                Vulcan               =   6               
  Niccolo Flychuck       Vulcan               =  -1               
  gnome                                       =   0               
  Bascule                FUN                  =   9               
  snowgod                (None Yet)           =   6               
  this is not a name     (None Yet)           =   6               
  Habeous Corpus                              =  12               
  Vulcan Unity vote                           =   0               
  /dev/joe               Vulcan               =  16               
  Guy Fawkes                                  =   7               
  Techno                 Underworld           =   9               
  IdiotBoy               Underworld           =  -1               
  fnord                                       =   0               
  breadbox                                    =   3               
  Wayne                  Underworld           =   9               

1 NO votes:  3 points each
  Mellon                                       18 -> 21           

0 PRESENT votes:

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Bash                   Underworld           
  Calvin N Hobbes        FUN                  

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  Robert Sevin                                
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)           
  Pascal                                      
  Geezer                                      

New players who are not active:
  Tim                                         

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================
Proposal 1184 - Wed Sep 04 11:33:50 EDT 1996
Oh Please Oh Please Oh Please Vote YES
Malenkai  (Randy Hall)

Repeal R 691.

{{[This rule adds NO value, is NOT a deterrent, and has ABSOLUTELY no
compensatory benefits for the extra work it creates.  It only transfers
a required response for the judge designate, and adds an extra step
on top of redistributing a deadbeat CFJ.  Its bad enough when a CFJ is
ignored, and I have to go through the work to redo that step, but to add
this step as well, for no return on the work, is too much.]}}

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:43:26 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1217

> From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1217
> Date: Wednesday, September 11, 1996 2:25 PM
> 
> 
> If, as snowgod believes, these propsals are part of a gnome hunt, then 
> why is this one modest?  While UW may laugh at what I'm about to say, 
> this is a coup attempt! 

I'm far from the Underworld's Official Spokesman, but:

BWAHAHAHAHAH!

That's my evil laugh-
IdiotBoy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:45:46 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Prop 1184 passes

Wow, I may have to reconsider the value of PFMalenkai.  He certainly commands
some respect among the masses.

When did I get so verbose-
IdiotBoy
- --
Matt Miller
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:54:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: missing P1214

Proposal 1214 also did not get sent out; I asked the nomicbot for it and
it sent it to me promptly.  More of the underworld's attempt to grab power.

> Proposal 1214 - Wed Sep 11 12:06:55 EDT 1996
> #proposal
> Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
> 
> This Rule takes precedence over all mutable rules.
> 
> Each player who is not a member of Underworld and owns at least 20 PFbonds
> in thier own name shall transfer 20 PFBonds to Wayne.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 15:19:53 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 1221

Proposal 1221 - Wed Sep 11 15:19:53 EDT 1996
Amend Rule 1219
Guy Fawkes  (Robert Shimmin)

This is a modest proposal

Amend Rule 1219, if such a rule exists, to include the following sentence 
at its end.

"When Daylight Savings Time is in effect (or would be in effect for those 
areas which do not observe it) the official Ackanomic time will be 
Central Daylight Savings Time."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 15:19:24 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Acka: Mailing errors

What a time to have a mailing problem.  I'm sure that some of you 
conspirary freaks think this is a plan by Underworld to take control.

Apparently the problem may be on my end.  I checked the mailq and found
about 900 messages backed up in the mailq, all similar to this:

AA21484    16720 Wed Sep  4 03:11 <[email-masked]>
                 (Deferred: Not enough space, only 323 bytes available for die)
                                  <[email-masked]>
AA13835     4919 Tue Sep  3 23:37 <[email-masked]>
                 (Deferred: Not enough space, only 323 bytes available for die)
                                  <[email-masked]>
AA11282     2813 Tue Sep  3 22:37 <[email-masked]>
                 (Deferred: Not enough space, only 323 bytes available for die)
                                  <[email-masked]>
AA12706    24114 Tue Sep  3 23:10 <[email-masked]>
                 (Deferred: Not enough space, only 323 bytes available for die)
                                  <[email-masked]>

I'll check with the system admin to see if there is a problem.  If anyone
else has an idea, please let me know.

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:12:17 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka:  IdiotBoy Marketing. 

>The FInancier will please report a transfer of A$30 from IdiotBoy to
>snowgod.

So noted.

ThinMan
Financier
Reputed newbie-bashing bad guy
But really a good guy nonetheless

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:32:52 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212 

Guy Fawkes wrote:

>I think this rule could be repealed, if it did happen to pass.
>
>On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:
>
>> >Proposal 1212 - Wed Sep 11 12:04:27 EDT 1996
>> >#proposal
>> >Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
>> >
>> >This Rule takes precedence over all mutable rules.
>> >
>> >snowgod shall be replaced as president by IdiotBoy.

Perhaps the rule could be repealed, but it is much harder to repeal
a rule than it is to prevent it from passing in the first place.  Those
of us who have tried before to repeal the Gnome know that well.  And,
by the way, Wayne is foremost among anti-Gnome activists -- he knows
exactly how hard it can be to get rid of something once it passes.

Let this serve as additional urging to those who normally try to vote
against the trend: please don't try that on these proposals by Wayne.
We need every vote against them that we can get.

ThinMan
Freedom Fighter

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:31:03 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Ackanomic: Proposal 1194 resent (fwd) 

Guy Fawkes wrote:

>I hope to do this right this time.  I have corrected what I believed I 
>heard were the major problems.  If anyone finds any remaining flaws or 
>flaws introduced by the rewrite, please inform me.

Seeing as how I have already gotten myself involved with this, I have some
comments about this RFC.  They are intended to be constructive criticism.

>RFC
>The Machine That Goes *ping* (revisited)
>Guy Fawkes  (Robert Shimmin)
>
>Create a new rule reading:
>
>I. There exists the Ackanomic entity called The Machine That Goes 
>*ping*, henceforth known as the Machine. {{All machines other than the 
>one created by this proposal are hereby destroyed.  This proposal creates 
>exactly one machine.}}  Should a machine ever be created by means other 
>than this proposal, it instantly ceases to exist.  The Machine is protected.

If and when this has any legal force, it will be a rule, not a proposal,
and should refer to itself as such.

It is important to be consistent with capitalization -- there may be many
machines, but only one Machine.

>II.  The Machine That Goes *ping* may exist only in the Home of one active 
>player at any given time.  {{When this proposal passes, it shall exist in 
>Xanadu.}}  Its location may be changed only by the means contained in 
>this rule. 

I see that you have attempted to address the concern that I previously
had about this section.  I still don't quite like the wording, however.
Here is my suggested text:

II.   The Machine That Goes *ping* may exist in the home of any active
player, but not anywhere else.  Its location may change only as specified
in this rule.  {{ When this rule takes effect, the Machine it creates
shall be in Xanadu. }}

>The player in whose home the Machine resides has the duty of assisting Acka 
>in its study of the Machine, and e is given the title "Scholar of *ping*" 
>(hereafter, Scholar) for as long as the Machine shares his abode.  Should 
>he, after losing this title, come to gain it again, his previous studies 
>of the Machine shall have no effect whatsoever on his present studies.

I personally detest Spivak pronouns, though some around here like them.
If you use them then please do so consistently.  This applies also to other
sections of the RFC.

>In the Machine's truth, {if clause} will be replaced by no more than 
>twelve words.  Each of these words must be in the official dictionary or 
>exist in the Rules.  {if clause} shall not contain anything that is not a 
>word.  This includes all forms of punctuation.  The truth must be such 
>that the Machine shall not go *ping* more than once in any calendar day, 
>nor remain silent for any time exceeding seven calendar days during the 
>Scholar's time under that title.

You are excluding puntuation from the truth.  That is your perogative,
but it will preclude the use of contractions and possessives.

I think it would be better to handle the one ping per day elsewhere [I have
noted below where], and only the one per seven days here.

>IV.  Under no circumstances may the Scholar the Machine's truth 
>in any method other than a public message, nor in any form other than the 
>disguised one described above.  It is strictly against this rule for em 
>to use any means whatsoever, other than those described in this rule, to 
>communicate any information regarding the Truth to any player, so long as 
>the Truth remains unknown to all players but em.

You have dropped a word after "Scholar" in the first sentence.  The first
sentence also conflicts with the Magic Letter bit further down.

>V.  Beginning with the day after the Scholar announces the Machine's 
>truth, whenever the statement described by "today {if clause}" is true, 
>The Machine That Goes *ping* shall go *ping* exactly once during that day.  

Here is where I prefer to handle the one ping per day, as you have already
done.  Again, however, I am not satisfied with the wording.  Here is my
suggestion:

V.   Beginning on the day after the Scholar announces the Machine's truth,
the Machine shall go *ping* exactly once on any calendar day during which
the statement described by "today {if clause}" is at any time true.  The
Machine shall not otherwise ever go *ping*.

>VI. If any player other than the Scholar believes he knows the Machine's 
>truth, e shall announce what e believes its undisguised form to be in a 
>public message.  If he is correct, the Scholar shall congratulate him, 
>and  Machine shall produce one Gadget randomly selected from the 
>Blueprints which both existed at the beginning of the present Scholar's 
>time under that title and currently exist, which shall be awarded to the 
>player who correctly guessed the Machine's truth.  The Machine shall then 
>transport itself to that player's Home.

You dropped a "The" near the beginning of the fourth line above.

This may sound nitpicky, but Blueprints are not Gadgets, so it is impossible
to select a Gadget from any collection of Blueprints.  I know what you mean,
but this group contains some semiprofessional nitpickers (one of whom is me).

I do like this way of giving out Gadgets better than the original one.

>If e guesses incorrectly, the Scholar shall ridicule him in a public 
>message, immune from the Politness Moon in doing so.  This takes 
>precedence over Rule 400.  The ridiculed player must pay a fine of 5 A$ 
>to the treasury for mocking the sacred truth, and e may not again guess 
>the Machine's truth while the current Scholar holds that title.

I worry that if a player guesses incorrectly, then he might be found
ineligible to guess again when the "current Scholar" becomes Scholar
again.  Better wording might be: "and he may not again attempt to guess
the Machine's truth until a new truth is announced."

>VII.  If the Machine has gone *ping* at least six times since the last 
>time this action was taken, any active player may pay 10 A$ to the 
>treasury, then post a public message naming any one letter of the alphabet 
>as the Magic Letter.  The Scholar must respond within three days by 
>publically reposting the Machine's truth in its disguised form, but this 
>time replacing any * representing the magic letter or any letter 
>previously named the magic letter during the most recent period e has 
>held that title with the letter(s) so represented.  

I have problems with this, some of them arising from the relatively
convoluted sentence structure.  Here is an alternative:

VII.  If the Machine has gone *ping* at least six times since the last time
a Magic Letter was named, and at least six times since the most recent time
that its truth was announced, then any active player may name any letter of
the alphabet as the Magic Letter by so posting to the public forum.  Each
time that a Magic Letter may be named, the scholar shall consider for that
purpose only the first post he receives that names a Magic Letter.  The
Scholar must respond within three days by naming the player whose post
he considered, and by publicly reposting the Machine's truth in its disguised
form except with those *'s representing the Magic Letter, and those
representing other Magic Letters named since the most recent truth was
announced, with the actual letter or letters represented.  The player whose
post naming the Magic Letter was most recently considered by the Scholar
shall at that time forfeit A$10 to the Treasury.

>VIII.  If the Machine goes *ping* thirty times under a single Scholar, 
>the Scholar must, within three days of the 30th *ping*, publically post the 
>Machine's truth in its undisguised form.

Again there is a potential problem with a player who regains the title of
Scholar.  How about:
VIII. Once the Machine has gone *ping* thirty times since the last time
a new truth was announced, the Scholar must....

>Upon losing the title of Scholar for any reason, e must publically 
>announce the Truth in an undisguised form within three days, if e has not 
>already done so.  If e loses it by going on vacation, e must make this 
>announcement within three days of eir return.

A more comprehensive alternative:
If a player loses the title of Scholar for any reason other than going on
vacation then he must publicly announce the truth most recently revealed
to him, in an undisguised form, within three days, unless he has already
done so.  If a player loses the title of Scholar because of going on
vacation, then he must announce the truth most recently revealed to
him, in an undiguised form, within three days of his return from vacation.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:33:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: missing P1214

Stand for freedom!

This one is even worse than it looks at first glance.  Because its not 
self deleting, it transfers 20, then another 20, then another 20....

- --Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Proposal 1214 also did not get sent out; I asked the nomicbot for it and
> it sent it to me promptly.  More of the underworld's attempt to grab power.
> 
> > Proposal 1214 - Wed Sep 11 12:06:55 EDT 1996
> > #proposal
> > Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
> > 
> > This Rule takes precedence over all mutable rules.
> > 
> > Each player who is not a member of Underworld and owns at least 20 PFbonds
> > in thier own name shall transfer 20 PFBonds to Wayne.
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:53:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Party Gravity

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Randy Hall wrote:

> As for P 1207, the indicated strategy is ABSTAIN for all
> non-underworld party members.  The extra votes will not
> count towards quorum.

When it was just 1207, that would have worked.  But with all the coup 
rules out, If everyone boycotts 1207, they get tossed onto vacation (did 
the 2 day minimum pass?) and are defenseless against the rest of the 
onslaught.  Am I right or am I mistaken?

Lovers of freedom, prepare thy defenses.  This is not a time to play 
strategy and vote countertrend (I admit I do it, too, but not this time.)
These are not no-brainer rules, and this is not a gnome hunt.  The only 
response, the ONLY response, is to fight on the beachheads, fight on the 
roads, fight from street to street and home to home, and if Acka should 
be taken, carry the fight to the Wilds until freedom reigns again.  There 
is no longer room to withhold loopholes out of good sport; there is no 
longer room to give others the benefit of the doubt.  Those not of UW; do 
not join their petty party.  United, we can defeat them.  Otherwise, we 
will be picked off, one by one.  If they do gain dictatorship as 
Malenkai's worst fears are, a mere proposal could deregister anyone, 
remember -- ANYONE.

Guy Fawkes 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:25:31 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: (Reform?) Party Gravity

> From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
> Lovers of freedom, prepare thy defenses.  This is not a time to play 
> strategy and vote countertrend (I admit I do it, too, but not this time.)
> These are not no-brainer rules, and this is not a gnome hunt.  The only 
> response, the ONLY response, is to fight on the beachheads, fight on the 
> roads, fight from street to street and home to home, and if Acka should 
> be taken, carry the fight to the Wilds until freedom reigns again.  There 
> is no longer room to withhold loopholes out of good sport; there is no 
> longer room to give others the benefit of the doubt.  Those not of UW; do 
> not join their petty party.  United, we can defeat them.  Otherwise, we 
> will be picked off, one by one.  If they do gain dictatorship as 
> Malenkai's worst fears are, a mere proposal could deregister anyone, 
> remember -- ANYONE.
> 
> Guy Fawkes 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have an announcement!  We have found the mastermind
behind the Ross Perot "the Republicans tried to ruin my daughter's wedding"
strategy.

Paranoia reigns-
IdiotBoy
(remember that part about not taking me seriously, before you call a Politeness
Moon -- ANYONE.)

Advertisement:
I'm no puny billionaire, but I sure can manage your investment portfolio! 
Coming soon, the IdiotBoy Report, a weekly newsmagazine on trends in Ackanomic
finance.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:41:25 +0000
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Cashing in on bondmania

> All three lots (60PFthis) @ A$245
> Individual lots (20PFthis) @ A$80 each
> 
> IdiotBoy
> 
>

My latest offer, possibly last.

All three lots (60PFthis) A$270
Individual lots (20PFthis) A$90 each

Techno
 
"Don't learn the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:41:25 +0000
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka:  Bonds

> The current High bid for 25 PFsnow is currently A$75.
> 
> I would like to get at least A$100 for them.
> 
> snowgod
> workin for the man
> 

I offer A$150 for them.

Techno
"Don't learn the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:44:10 +0000
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Votes

Now purchaseing votes for the recent Underworld props from Wayne.  
Name your price.  All non-UW members take note.

Techno
"Don't learn the tricks of the trade, learn the trade."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:52:00 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212

John Bollinger wrote:

> Let this serve as additional urging to those who normally try to vote
> against the trend: please don't try that on these proposals by Wayne.
> We need every vote against them that we can get.

That means you Mellon.  Is there any reason, other than points, that
you vote no on virtually every proposal?

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:02:30 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: PFBond Quotes

Buying:

PFMalenkai --  (50 @ A$200)
PFGuy        --  (50 @  A$30)
PFbreadbox --  (50 @  A$80)

Selling:

PFIdiotBoy --  (30 @ 30 PFWayne)
PFTechno  --  (25 @ A$125)

IdiotBoy

Advertisement:
Look for my full color ads coming soon to a .sig near you!  IdiotBoy is your
choice for quality investment advice since 1996.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:06:20 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212

From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> That means you Mellon.  Is there any reason, other than points, that
> you vote no on virtually every proposal?
> 
> Malenkai

Let me just express my shock at the rough treatment afforded those who choose to
vote their conscience.  It is your right to vote in favor of proposals of ANY
type.  I remain commited to the notion that Wayne is producing quality proposals
to enhance the enjoyment of this game for ALL.  When I enter MY votes, I will be
voting my conscience.

IdiotBoy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:09:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: (Reform?) Party Gravity

Have no fear, IdiotBoy, if I tend toward the swings of reaction, 
well-conducted humor rarely offends me.

As for Ross, don't credit me yet -- he still hasn't paid me.

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Matt Miller wrote:

> Ladies and Gentlemen, I have an announcement!  We have found the mastermind
> behind the Ross Perot "the Republicans tried to ruin my daughter's wedding"
> strategy.
> 
> Paranoia reigns-
> IdiotBoy
> (remember that part about not taking me seriously, before you call a Politeness
> Moon -- ANYONE.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:08:11 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: PFBond Quotes

Matt Miller wrote:
> 
> Buying:
> 
> PFMalenkai --  (50 @ A$200)

Get real :)

Malenkai

Selling:
PFMalenkai -- (quote not available, technical problems)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:12:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1212

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Matt Miller wrote:

> When I enter MY votes, I will
> be voting my conscience.
> 
> IdiotBoy
> 
> 

Does that mean you'll be abstaining?

Before calling a Politeness Moon, please don't this seriously either.  A 
jest for a jest, fair trade, I think.

Guy Fawkes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:31:50 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1211

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Proposal 1211 - Wed Sep 11 10:57:52 EDT 1996
> Repeal 432
> IdiotBoy  (Matt Miller)
> 
> This proposal, if enacted, will repeal R432 ("Consecutive NO Votes").
> 

This proposal, if enacted, will probably have no effect whatsoever,
unless it establishes some game custom that I have been wondering
about, even if proposals are allowed to do stuff.

There is a rule called "consecutive NO votes", but it is R 431.
Something here smells of some clever ploy by the UW party, similar to
my attempted coup.  Who knows ?

I note that I just recently tried to, unsuccessfully, repeal R 431.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:58:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: robert gene shimmin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218

This smells of a Trojan horse--

In the middle of the UW coup proposals, here is something that appears 
*mostly* harmless.  I mean, if *everyone* votes yes, the only affect is 
horrid inflation and the likely draining of the treasury.

But I wonder...  is a proposal that says "All non-UW players that have their 
names on the Scroll of Money shall forfeit all their assets to Wayne" next?

- --Guy Fawkes

On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 [email-masked] wrote:

> Proposal 1218 - Wed Sep 11 13:51:02 EDT 1996
> Scroll of Money
> Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
> 
> There shall be a protected entity call the Scroll of Money.  This scroll
> will list the names of the players who voted for the proposal that
> created this rule.  The scroll will exist unchanged until this Rule
> is modified or repealed.
> 
> On the first Friday of every month, A$400 will be transfered from the
> Treasury to each player who has thier name on the Scroll of Money.
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:08:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218

Guy Fawkes writes:
> This smells of a Trojan horse--
> 
> In the middle of the UW coup proposals, here is something that appears 
> *mostly* harmless.  I mean, if *everyone* votes yes, the only affect is 
> horrid inflation and the likely draining of the treasury.
> 
> On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> > Proposal 1218 - Wed Sep 11 13:51:02 EDT 1996
> > Scroll of Money
> > Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
> > 
> > There shall be a protected entity call the Scroll of Money.  This scroll
> > will list the names of the players who voted for the proposal that
> > created this rule.  The scroll will exist unchanged until this Rule
> > is modified or repealed.
> > 
> > On the first Friday of every month, A$400 will be transfered from the
> > Treasury to each player who has thier name on the Scroll of Money.

Proposal 1218 is invalid by rule 793, and by rule 104 it is removed
from consideration.  If necessary we can call a CFJ on it.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:05:51 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 281 (snowgod)

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> > Call For Judgement 281
> > Statement:
> > The legality of a Swinger trading a SwingVote after the Round Count is
> > incremented to a number that, when divided by RoundFreq, results in an
> > integer, for the first time, cannot be determined with finality.

> It has been established in past CFJ's that there is game custom that
> an interpretation of the rules which does not include any paradoxes is
> more reasonable than one which does include paradoxes.  I'd like to
> offer my interpretation [...]

That particular implicit game custom was established in the reasoning
of CFJ 240.  It was referred to in the reasoning of CFJ 256, where the
supreme court concluded that the paradoxical and non-paradoxical
renderings had to be "equally reasonable" for the non-paradoxical
rendering to hold sway.

In that case, the paradoxical rendering was deemed "more reasonable",
because that is what the rules said.  We have come so far as strict-
constructionalists, I don't see that that game custom has changed.

The reading based on what the rules say is "more reasonable" than
/dev/joe's interpretation based on mere "game custom" and "spirit of
the game".

In particular, the rules *explicitly* demand an indeterminate calculation
of swing votes to occur when a particular event occurs (that round
count business).  Paradox, cut and dried, by rule.  The rule might as
well said "if X occurs, this indeterminate thing occurs".  That is
what they say in that the calculation's value cannot be determined with
finality, based on the way the rule is explicitly worded, and other rules.
(I note under the old rules, the calculation would have been game custom!
That would have been more interesting).

I may not have agreed at the time that the literal wording of the
rules is "more reasonable" than a common sense reading, but CFJ 256 has
explicitly established that, and the judge must consider that fact when
ruling TRUE here.

I point just yesterday or so, ThinMan saying that a paradox win could 
be weaned out of the fact that selecting a random object from a pool
of 0 is indeterminate.  This is the game custom era we live in, and it
must be heeded.  The way the rule is written, indeterminately, is the
only interpretation.
   
> I thank Malenkai for pointing out this problem in the rules, and I
> suggest that the CSRR should fix it by replacing the [] brackets in
> R1116 with normal parentheses.

The CSRR is on vacation, and CSRs are privileges, so unless my acting
officers vacation thing passes, this will not be possible.  Furthermore,
making this change via CSR would be a violation of our current CSRs
ethos, as this change would have a material effect on how the game is
played.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:14:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Acka: Postmasterness

Mail to [email-masked] is bouncing.  I don't know
who this is, an observer I guess.  In any case I am invoking my
privilege as Postmaster to move yu-fen to the digest version of the
main list.

/dev/joe
Postmaster
PF's not for sale

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:21:40 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official

The following duties must be performed, in accordance with the rules
or game custom.

1) The Gaoler must compose the awful poem per R 939.  Given the
quality of his last effort, we should let him slide :)

2) The Justices should deliver a penalty for Habeous Corpus for CFJ 269.

3) The Registrar should tell us how Tim found out about the game.

4) We need an accurate account of who the current mentors are, and when
their mentorships end, so that they can get paid.  I believe this
duty has been done by the Registrar in the past, but I have a proposal
in the queue to fix this whole problem.  If that passes, we will need the
information anyway, however, for now.

5) The Registrar should assign a mentor for Tim, if he has not done so.
This depends on 4), obviously.

6) I have not seen the proposal results for P 1177-1179.  I'm sure that
is due to the e-mail problem, or sinister gnome manipulation by UW, and
Wayne knows about it.  I'm dying to know if the gnome is toast, and if
I'm going to get that chartreuse goose.

Malenkai
Speaker

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:43:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: Official

Malenkai wrote:
> The following duties must be performed, in accordance with the rules
> or game custom.
  [...]
> 3) The Registrar should tell us how Tim found out about the game.
  [...]
> 5) The Registrar should assign a mentor for Tim, if he has not done so.
> This depends on 4), obviously.

Also, Tim needs to choose his official Ackanomic name, and when he does,
I'll give him his house with his name on it and a piece of land. (If he
chose Tim as his name, and I missed it, somebody tell me -- all I have
seen is a message from Niccolo Flychuck saying he joined the game and
hasn't chosen his Ackanomic Name yet.)  The Financier also needs to give
him some PFbonds with his Ackanomic name on them and some A$ (to be
determined after the current A$ totals are figured out).

I will calculate the current scores and update the rule set after I get
the voting results for proposals 1177-1179.

/dev/joe
Map-Harfer
Web-Harfer
Scorekeeper
This space is not for sale.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:45:25 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218

Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Proposal 1218 is invalid by rule 793, and by rule 104 it is removed
> from consideration.  If necessary we can call a CFJ on it.

I'm not so sure about that, but you are probably right.  I would call
the CFJ though.  There was certainly an *attempt* to avoid R 793 in its
wording, and would come down to the rendering of "discrimination", and
the judge's judgement.

My mentee (is that a word), fnord, asked me about this, so this will 
serve as my reply to that question as well.  If you want, fnord, call
the CFJ.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:31:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Michael J. Thomas" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1218

Malenkai spake thusly
> 
> Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:
> 
> My mentee (is that a word), fnord, asked me about this, so this will 
> serve as my reply to that question as well.  If you want, fnord, call
> the CFJ.

Thank you very much, Malenkai.  I will be doing so very shortly.

fnord

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:36:12 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 1211

From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
> This proposal, if enacted, will probably have no effect whatsoever,
> unless it establishes some game custom that I have been wondering
> about, even if proposals are allowed to do stuff.
> 
> There is a rule called "consecutive NO votes", but it is R 431.
> Something here smells of some clever ploy by the UW party, similar to
> my attempted coup.  Who knows ?
> 
> I note that I just recently tried to, unsuccessfully, repeal R 431.
> 
> Malenkai

Hard to believe a one-line proposal could be so badly written, ain't it?  Or
perhaps you've seen my previous "Reasoning" rule? ;)

IB

Advertisement:
This message is just a lame excuse to remind you to support Wayneonomics. 
What's good for the bond traders is good for Ackanomia.  Vote YES on P1207.  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:47:38 -0400
From: "Matt Miller" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: It's not about Bonds

I was thinking of going over to visit my kindly neighbor, /dev/joe. I'd be sure
to call ahead and make sure I am welcome and all that, but even tho he's right
next door, I'm not sure I know how to get there.  Can anyone help me?

IdiotBoy
I can't wait til my new ad campaign starts.
- --
Matt Miller
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:00:50 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: CFJ 282 (Brinjal)

Brinjal has been chosen, and has 3 days to accept/decline.

Clerk of the Courts
R 691 is GONE :):):):):):)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call For Judgement 282
  Subject: Proposal Bribery and Money Scrolls
Initiator: fnord
    Judge: Brinjal (selected Sep 11, 1996, 23:00h New York Time)
Judgement:

Statement:

Proposal 1218 ("Scroll of Money") is an invalid proposal according to
Rule 793 ("No Proposal Bribery").

fnord's comments:

Rule 793 states that "a proposal is invalid if the rule change or resolution
discriminates in any way between players based on the way they vote on that
proposal."

Proposal 1218 creates an Ackanomic entity that would contain a list of
who "...voted for the proposal that created..." it.  The entity would then
transfer money from the Treasury to the players on that list.  This is most
certainly discrimination based on the way players may vote.

It may be pointed out by some that the phrase "vote for the proposal"
could be translated simply as any who voted on the proposal, whether
they voted "YES" or "NO".  This however, still discriminates against
those who abstain (either on purpose or through inaction) or chose not
to vote for Quorum reasons, both of which are certainly valid "ways
to vote".

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #223
*******************************