Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #57
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest       Wednesday, June 19 1996       Volume 01 : Number 057

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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 00:38:22 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm 

At 11:52 PM 6/17/96, Malenkai wrote:
>Kelly Martin wrote:
>>
>> "Jason" == Jason Reed <[email-masked]> writes:
>>
>> Jason> So even if we killed all the extras, we'd still have the basis
>> Jason> for adding _new_, but _different_ extras to the game. It
>> Jason> wouldn't be _sterile_, just *temporarily* boring.
>>
>> it's akin to the way forest fires clear the way for new growth.
>> perhaps we should import the Agoran tradition of Chromatic Repeals. :)

Perhaps we should invent some new tradations of our own, hmm?  Possibly
invent something new and exiting, instead of ripping something off from
another nomic, or a real government?  Nah.

snowgod
Ambassador
 Former CSRR
Acting Senator (seat c)
Wearing a prosthetic forehead
In fear of being burned as a heretic
Founder, Church of the Markovian Dream

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:23:23 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Phil Ackley wrote:
( ( and I think Kelly wrote these two lines - which I comepletely agree
with)
> >> it's akin to the way forest fires clear the way for new growth.
> >> perhaps we should import the Agoran tradition of Chromatic Repeals. :)
> 
> Perhaps we should invent some new tradations of our own, hmm?  Possibly
> invent something new and exiting, instead of ripping something off from
> another nomic, or a real government?  Nah.
> 

A couple of suggestions:
1. I've mentioned this before, but Power will allow to create rules that
gradually reduce their own Power, until they reach some lower limit, and
repeal themselves. This way they will fade away.
I think this will increase the fun value, since too much of one good
thing, as fun as it may be , tends to get a bit tiring.
2. It is also possible to create a similar effect without Power. 
Such as rules that automatically repeal themselves after a certain amount
of time.
Rules that automatically repeal themselves as part of the end-of-game
(end-of-cycle) process

I also feel that a rule about such rules should come first - as a central
control, so to speak.

Nicolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:34:59 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm 

snowgod wrote:
>Perhaps we should invent some new tradations of our own, hmm?  Possibly
>invent something new and exiting, instead of ripping something off from
>another nomic, or a real government?  Nah.

Although I am all for originality, I am somewhat concerned by certain
players' apparently strong aversion to anything at all adapted from another
source.  If an idea is good then what difference does it make whether
it is based on real life, or on another Nomic?  If we insist on using
only "original" ideas (to whatever extent those exist), then we arbitrarily
cut ourselves off from many potentially useful, pre-owned ideas.

I much prefer to establish the best rules possible (in my subjective opinion)
than to establish poorer rules just for the sake of originality.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:01:44 +0000
From: Matt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm

ThinMan wrote:
> snowgod wrote:
> >Perhaps we should invent some new tradations of our own, hmm?  Possibly
> >invent something new and exiting, instead of ripping something off from
> >another nomic, or a real government?  Nah.
> 
> Although I am all for originality, I am somewhat concerned by certain
> players' apparently strong aversion to anything at all adapted from another
> source.  If an idea is good then what difference does it make whether
> it is based on real life, or on another Nomic?  If we insist on using
> only "original" ideas (to whatever extent those exist), then we arbitrarily
> cut ourselves off from many potentially useful, pre-owned ideas.
> 
> I much prefer to establish the best rules possible (in my subjective opinion)
> than to establish poorer rules just for the sake of originality.
> 
> 
> ThinMan

While I agree with ThinMan, I certainly don't want Ackanomic to be
Agora II. There's too much of "this is how Agora does it" at the
moment for my liking. I would prefer to see more original thought.

Moreover, I think originality and new ideas should be an important
part of the game. Original rules don't have to be poor rules.

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:04:23 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm 

"Phil" == Phil Ackley <[email-masked]> writes:

>>>  it's akin to the way forest fires clear the way for new growth.
>>> perhaps we should import the Agoran tradition of Chromatic
>>> Repeals. :)

Phil> Perhaps we should invent some new tradations of our own, hmm?
Phil> Possibly invent something new and exiting, instead of ripping
Phil> something off from another nomic, or a real government?  

sure, as long as one of those traditions is the requirement that all
Ackanomic Players be completely incapable of detecting sarcasm.

k.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:45:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic:  Official (birthday)

On Sat, 15 Jun 1996, Mohammed wrote:

> 
> 	Nomination period for CSRR is over; Techno, mr cwm, and /dev/joe 
> were the Nominees.  I appoint mr cwm to the office of Common Sense, 
> Redundancy, and Redundancy.
> 

I hereby return from vacation and thank you for the appointment.  And
thanks to all who endorsed me.  I'm about halfway through the
messages that have acculmulated.  When I've finished, maybe I'll
understand what has happened here recently, and why someone said this
office may have taken on new importance.  

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:21:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mohammed <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic:  Inventor

I have a question.  Does the fact that the game has been "suspended" 
preclude my working on a Gadget?  Since there are no judgements while 
the game is in hiatus, I think the best thing is to go ahead and say yes...

I need to spend some more time working on it, so it'll be quite a while
now, I'm afraid.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:35:13 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Ackanomic:  Inventor 

Mohammed wrote:
>I have a question.  Does the fact that the game has been "suspended" 
>preclude my working on a Gadget?  Since there are no judgements while 
>the game is in hiatus, I think the best thing is to go ahead and say yes...

The state of the game is currently being dictated by R829, which suspends
only distribution of proposals and CFJs.  When R666 kicks in it will
suspend all gameplay, but not for long enough to make a difference to
anyone.  I don't think there is any case at all to require you to stop
working on Gadgets, but you may do so voluntarilly if you so desire.

>I need to spend some more time working on it, so it'll be quite a while
>now, I'm afraid.

Whatever you decide.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 13:52:11 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm

Kelly Wrote:

>sure, as long as one of those traditions is the requirement that all
>Ackanomic Players be completely incapable of detecting sarcasm.
>
>k.

I believe that this would solve the problem should it be passed into law:

[RFC:

Preamble:
So that Ackanomic, a simulation (formerly a diversion, and prior to that, a
game), can garauntee that no player will enjoy taking part in the rule
changing process, we have decided to outlaw all forms of humor.

It is prohibited for a public message to be even remotely amusing.  The
creator of any amusing public message shall be eligible for prosecution by
a CFCJ.  This rule reccomends a sentece in the Gaol of not less than three
days.

It is prohibited for any public message to contain Sarcasm, Irony, or any
double meanings.  The creator of any public message that contains Sarcasm,
Irony, or any double meanings shall be eligible for prosecution by a CFCJ.
This rule reccomends a a penalty of expulsion from the game.

A rule shall be considered Amusing, Sarcastic, Ironic, etc, should even one
player states publically that he finds it so.  ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:41:15 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic:  Inventor

Mohammed wrote:
> 
> I have a question.  Does the fact that the game has been "suspended"
> preclude my working on a Gadget?  Since there are no judgements while
> the game is in hiatus, I think the best thing is to go ahead and say yes...
> 

No language claims the *game* has been "suspended", does it? Only parts
of it, with dubious precedence claims...

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:50:59 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm 

"Matt" == Matt  <[email-masked]> writes:

Matt> While I agree with ThinMan, I certainly don't want Ackanomic to
Matt> be Agora II. 

nor do i.  in fact, i've gone so far as to impose sanctions (to the
extent permitted by Agoran law) upon an Agoran who attempted the
wholesale importation of rules from Agora into Ackanomic.

however, i think it's foolhardy to ignore what other Nomics have
done.  one can both draw inspiration from them and also learn from
their mistakes.  those who do not learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.  i don't care to guess at what happens to those who refuse
to even acknowledge that history exists.

Matt> Moreover, I think originality and new ideas should be an
Matt> important part of the game. Original rules don't have to be poor
Matt> rules.

this is quite true.  so let's all get to work on writing good original
rules.   come on, i dare you!

that aside, it makes it far easier to enjoy the fun rules if the
supporting rules are sound.  to a great degree, supporting rules are
boring.  this doesn't mean they should be ignored, however.  bad
support rules end up crashing the game, such that the fun rules aren't
applicable.

by the way, has the Fat Lady stopped singing yet?

k.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:20:29 -0500
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm  

I agree with all that's been said in this thread.

>those who do not learn from history are doomed to
>repeat it.

I can't help it... got to ask... Kelly, do you watch Babylon 5?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 02:24:08 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Hm 

On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, T Joffrain wrote:

> I agree with all that's been said in this thread.
> 
> >those who do not learn from history are doomed to
> >repeat it.
> 
> I can't help it... got to ask... Kelly, do you watch Babylon 5?
> 
>
PLEASE

do not post any Babylon 5   3rd season spoilers.

We'll only get the 3rd season after it's over in the US

Nicolo Flychuck

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:37:02 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acka: Can't we all just get along? :) 

I found this while browsing thorugh /dev/joe's Ackanomic Pages (good work,
Mr. Web-Harfer, BTW).  Perhaps we should all embrace the spirit behind this
proposal.

Proposal 805 - Sat May 25 01:30:56 EDT 1996
   Kindler, Gentler World
   Malenkai (Randy Hall)
   Decision: Defeated

     Upon receipt of any post to the public forum, including, but not
     limited to, Proposals, CFJs, CFCJs, and AOJs, the reader, if a
     player, is required to think that was posted in good fun. In fact,
     they are required to imagine the author laughing hilariously while
     at the e-mail client; they must envision the author rollicking
     across the floor in eye-splitting laughter, especially if the action
     is in response to hilarious or dubious action.

     This does not require that the author be doing any of those things
     when composing, but requires the public to give the author the
     benefit of the doubt in a medium as limited as the one we are using.

snowgod
Ambassador
 Former CSRR
Acting Senator (seat c)
Wearing a prosthetic forehead
The Witchfinder General never declared me a heretic
Founder, Church of the Markovian Dream

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:44:44 -0500
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: We want B5 in Acka! 

>PLEASE
>do not post any Babylon 5   3rd season spoilers.
>We'll only get the 3rd season after it's over in the US

I would never do that...   > : }
Not _really_.    : )

Don't worry, I hate it when people post spoilers, so now that I've been
warned it won't happen. The Uk are going to get the last episodes of this
season before the US. (sigh)

Isn't B5 good though? I mean, doesn't it just surprise you at every turn?
I'm talking about it with lost of friends on email who are also fans. It's
so good I once considered writing a proposal that would have had our
ambassador send a message of thanks every week to JMS. Want to get that
passed?    ; )

So what episodes are you up to?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:52:41 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Inventor 

"Mohammed" == Mohammed  <[email-masked]> writes:

Mohammed> I have a question.  Does the fact that the game has been
Mohammed> "suspended" preclude my working on a Gadget?  Since there
Mohammed> are no judgements while the game is in hiatus, I think the
Mohammed> best thing is to go ahead and say yes...

i believe you are free to do whatever you want with Gadgets, so long
as it does not involve distributing proposals, voting on proposals,
calling for judgement, or returning judgement (and under some
arguments, those things are still legal, too....)

k.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:57:14 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Can't we all just get along? :)

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 

> The Witchfinder General never declared me a heretic

I thought there was a Politeness Moon against Mohammed handing out
there too. I don't remember, too many brain cells killed sifting through
the rules...

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:01:38 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Can't we all just get along? :)

Phil Ackley wrote:
> 
> I found this while browsing thorugh /dev/joe's Ackanomic Pages (good work,
> Mr. Web-Harfer, BTW).  Perhaps we should all embrace the spirit behind this
> proposal.
> 
> Proposal 805 - Sat May 25 01:30:56 EDT 1996
>    Kindler, Gentler World
>    Malenkai (Randy Hall)
>    Decision: Defeated

Its not a rule. In fact, its not even "game custom". :)

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:14:55 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Clerk of the Courts Report

Fellow Ackanomiacs,

It hasn't looked like there's been alot going on at the CotC lately,
but I'd figure I'd issue a report anyway. The Clerk has actually been
quite busy, going through alot of paperwork, in order to prepare for
any eventuality...

In any case, in the course of that work, I stumbled over CFJ 184, and
its header:
 
> Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:42:43 [New York Time]

This means, if you take the "game custom" interpretation of "Official
Voting Period" to be 7 days, we're not that far away from the completion
of the delagate nomination period.

I can't wait. Mabye the Web-Harfer should write some JavaScript to
simulate that falling ball they have at Times Square on New Year's Eve :)

Clerk of the Courts

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End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #57
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