Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #43
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest         Monday, June 10 1996         Volume 01 : Number 043

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 12:39:35 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 852 Passes

Here are the voting results for : 852
  Proposal 852 - Mon Jun 03 09:54:31 EDT 1996
  Trashing the welcomer
  /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)

Quorum met : 18 eligible voters -- 16 players cast votes

14 YES votes   2 NO votes   1 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

/dev/joe gains 10 points.  201 -> 211

14 YES votes:  
  Robin Hood                                                      
  Malenkai                                                        
  Brinjal                                                         
  ThinMan                                                         
  Niccolo Flychuck                                                
  De'ghew                Underworld                               
  snowgod                (None Yet)                               
  /dev/joe                                                        
  SnafuMoose                                                      
  Techno                 Underworld                               
  Underworld Unity vote                                            
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)                               
  Wayne                  Underworld                               
  Mohammed               (None Yet)                               

2 NO votes:  5 points each
  Bascule                                     283 -> 288          
  this is not a name     (None Yet)           276 -> 281          

1 PRESENT votes:
  Calvin N Hobbes                            

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Dr McSpong                                  
  Merlin the Happy Pig                        

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  The Great Old One                           
  chess piece face       Foozball             
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball             
  Foozball Unity vote                         
  Robert Sevin           Foozball             

New players who are not active:

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================
Proposal 852 - Mon Jun 03 09:54:31 EDT 1996
Trashing the welcomer
/dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)

1. Amend R424 'Office of Registrar' to read:

   "The Office of the Registrar is a Functional Office.  The Duties of
   the Registrar are:

      "(a) maintaining a list of all registered players and their
           Ackanomic names.
      "(b) furnishing new players with any game information they
           need, including but not limited to:
         (i)   instructions on how to vote and how to submit proposals,
         (ii)  definitions of commonly used acronyms such as CFJ, AOJ,
               RFC, and CSRR,
         (iii) the address of the Ackanomic web page,
         (iv)  the current list of players,
         (v)   the current rules,
         (vi)  the fact that the Registrar is available to answer
               new players' questions
        "(c) to make oneself available for questions from new players.
	"(d) keeping track of all of the titles and offices the
	     players hold, and who holds the Magic Potato."

2. Repeal R792 'Head Start'.

3. Repeal R555 'Welcomer, Creation of'.

   [[This incorporates R792 into the Registrar rule, and also adds the basic
   duties of the Welcomer from R555.  I feel that the welcomer's job
   overlaps too much with the Registrar's, and dropping the welcomer's
   bonus currency also removes one of the confusing references to
   fractional Ackadollars from the rules.  I also dropped ARN from the
   list of abbreviations.

   Rule 792 says:

  "When a new player joins the game of Ackanomic, the Registrar
   should mail her or him the following:

   1. Instructions on how to vote, with a copy of the current
       nomicbot help file, if such a thing exists.

   2. An explanation of how to submit proposals.

   3. A glossary of acronyms and explanations of said acronyms, 
       including but not limited to the following: CFJ, AOJ, ARN,
       RFC, CSRR.

Rule 555 says:

"(i)   The Functional Office of Welcomer is hereby created.
(ii)  There shall be one Seat for this Office.
(iii) The Duties are:
      a) To contact new Players and impart to them the following:
         1) How to connect with the Ackanomic Web page.
         2) A quick overview of the basics of the game.
         3) The fact that the Welcomer is available to answer
            questions from new Players.
         3) Any other information that seems helpful.
      b) To make oneself available for questions from new Players.

(iv)  The Privileges are:
      a) The usual salary for a Functional Officer.
      b) A bonus of .10 units of currency each time the "Gee, Wally"
         condition is met according to section (v) of this Rule.

(v)   The "Gee, Wally" condition is met whenever all of the following
      apply:
      a) A Player sends a message to ONLY the Financier that contains
         the phrase: "Gee, Wally, this sure is a neat game."
      b) The Player sending the message mentioned in section (i) does
         so during a time period running from 28 to 42 days after the
         Player first became a Player.
      c) The Player sending the message mentioned in section (i) has
         never before sent a message that triggered a "Gee, Wally"
         condition.
      d) The message is received on a Tuesday or a Friday, and no
         "Gee, Wally" condition has been triggered yet that day.
      e) The Officer holding the Welcomer Office has made no
         reference to the Player of the "Gee, Wally" condition other
         than the following sentences: "There is a way you can give me
         bonus currency if you think I've done a good job as Welcomer.
         I'm not allowed to tell you anything more about this."

(vi)  Whenever currency is to be awarded as a consequence of the
      "Gee, Wally" condition, the Financier should report the
      change as a result of "mysterious conditions."

(vii) Any Player who makes any mention of the "Gee, Wally" condition
      except as allowed by this Rule shall be penalized .10 units
      of currency.  This change shall be reported as resulting from
      "bad Juju."

(viii)Whenever this Office is vacant, the Registrar shall be the
      Acting Welcomer."]]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 12:40:21 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 853 Passes

Here are the voting results for : 853
  Proposal 853 - Mon Jun 03 09:55:21 EDT 1996
  eliminating all traces of ARN's from the rule set
  /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)

Quorum met : 18 eligible voters -- 16 players cast votes

17 YES votes   1 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal PASSES

/dev/joe gains 10 points.  211 -> 221

17 YES votes:  
  Robin Hood                                                      
  Brinjal                                                         
  ThinMan                                                         
  Niccolo Flychuck                                                
  De'ghew                Underworld                               
  Bascule                                                         
  Calvin N Hobbes                                                 
  snowgod                (None Yet)                               
  this is not a name     (None Yet)                               
  /dev/joe                                                        
  SnafuMoose                                                      
  Techno                 Underworld                               
  (None Yet) Unity vote                                            
  Underworld Unity vote                                            
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)                               
  Wayne                  Underworld                               
  Mohammed               (None Yet)                               

1 NO votes:  5 points each
  Malenkai                                    210 -> 215          

0 PRESENT votes:

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Dr McSpong                                  
  Merlin the Happy Pig                        

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  The Great Old One                           
  chess piece face       Foozball             
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball             
  Foozball Unity vote                         
  Robert Sevin           Foozball             

New players who are not active:

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================
Proposal 853 - Mon Jun 03 09:55:21 EDT 1996
eliminating all traces of ARN's from the rule set
/dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)

1. Amend Rule 422 by changing "ARN 666" to "Rule 666".

2. Amend Rule 691 by changing "ARN 588" to "Rule 588".

3. Amend Rule 709 by changing the acronym "ARN" to "Rule" every time
   it occurs.

[[ We have repealed the ARN rule, but some rules still refer to ARN's. ]]

4. Repeal R794 'Renumbering Proposals'. 

 [[It has done its work, and is now dead weight.  Stupidly I forgot
   the repealing itself part when I rewrote that proposal.  The rule says:

"If there does not exist a rule titled 'No Rule-changing Rules' at the time
that this rule takes effect, then at that time, all rules with numbers
greater than 642, including this rule, shall be renumbered, giving each
rule the number of the proposal that created it.  The ARN for such rules
will be changed similarly.

If there exists a rule titled 'No Rule-changing Rules' at the time that
this rule takes effect, then 3 days after this rule takes effect, all rules
with numbers greater than 642, including this rule, shall be renumbered,
giving each rule the number of the rule that created it.  The ARN for such
rules will be changed similarly.  Any player opposed to this change may
declare their opposition by sending a public message containing the text
'____ thinks the rule numbers should stay screwed up!' where ____ is filled
in with his Official Ackanomic Name.  If at any time within the 3 days after
this rule takes effect, N players have declared this, where N is equal to 1
plus 1/3 the number of active players, rounded down to a whole number, then
the changes described in this rule will not occur, and the rule numbers will
remain screwed up, although new rules will still be numbered properly."]]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 12:42:53 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 854 Fails

Here are the voting results for : 854
  Proposal 854 - Mon Jun 03 09:56:20 EDT 1996
  Gross Wickedness is Afoot
  Brinjal  (Simon Clarke)

Quorum met : 18 eligible voters -- 16 players cast votes

9 YES votes   6 NO votes   1 PRESENT votes
Proposal FAILS

Brinjal loses 10 points.  121 -> 111

9 YES votes:  3 points each
  Malenkai                                    215 -> 218          
  Brinjal                                     111 -> 114          
  ThinMan                                     230 -> 233          
  Bascule                                     288 -> 291          
  snowgod                (None Yet)           109 -> 112          
  this is not a name     (None Yet)           281 -> 284          
  /dev/joe                                    221 -> 224          
  SnafuMoose                                  137 -> 140          
  Techno                 Underworld           265 -> 268          

6 NO votes:  
  Robin Hood                                                      
  Niccolo Flychuck                                                
  Calvin N Hobbes                                                 
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)                               
  Wayne                  Underworld                               
  Mohammed               (None Yet)                               

1 PRESENT votes:
  De'ghew                Underworld          

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Dr McSpong                                  
  Merlin the Happy Pig                        

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  The Great Old One                           
  chess piece face       Foozball             
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball             
  Foozball Unity vote                         
  Robert Sevin           Foozball             

New players who are not active:

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 12:44:08 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Prop 855 Fails

Here are the voting results for : 855
  Proposal 855 - Mon Jun 03 09:56:43 EDT 1996
  A grapefruit is a grapefruit is a grapefruit
  Brinjal  (Simon Clarke)

Quorum met : 18 eligible voters -- 16 players cast votes

10 YES votes   6 NO votes   0 PRESENT votes
Proposal FAILS

Brinjal loses 10 points.  114 -> 104

10 YES votes:  3 points each
  Robin Hood                                  239 -> 242          
  Malenkai                                    218 -> 221          
  Brinjal                                     104 -> 107          
  De'ghew                Underworld           143 -> 146          
  Bascule                                     291 -> 294          
  snowgod                (None Yet)           112 -> 115          
  /dev/joe                                    224 -> 227          
  SnafuMoose                                  140 -> 143          
  Techno                 Underworld           268 -> 271          
  Mohammed               (None Yet)           222 -> 225          

6 NO votes:  
  ThinMan                                                         
  Niccolo Flychuck                                                
  Calvin N Hobbes                                                 
  this is not a name     (None Yet)                               
  mr cwm                 (None Yet)                               
  Wayne                  Underworld                               

0 PRESENT votes:

2 ABSTENTIONS:
  Dr McSpong                                  
  Merlin the Happy Pig                        

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  The Great Old One                           
  chess piece face       Foozball             
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball             
  Foozball Unity vote                         
  Robert Sevin           Foozball             

New players who are not active:

====================================================
Wayne, your friendly Tabulator
====================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 13:01:01 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Prop 852 Passes

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon                                         
  The Great Old One                           
  chess piece face       Foozball             
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball             
  Robert Sevin           Foozball             
  Foozball Unity vote                         
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I didn't know that my scrit would do this!  It's too funny :)

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 13:20:53 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 904

Proposal 904 - Mon Jun 10 13:20:53 EDT 1996
Game vs Cycle
ThinMan  (John Bollinger)

If a Player wins the Game according to the Rules, then the same
procedure shall occur as if he had won a cycle [currently defined
by Rule 666].  In particular, the game shall not end.  

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 13:32:54 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 905

Proposal 905 - Mon Jun 10 13:32:54 EDT 1996
Transfer of Currency
Mohammed  (Jason Orendorff)

To transfer Currency [Ackadollars (A$)] from one player to another, both of
the following conditions must be met.

- -The intent to transfer must be made in the public forum by the player
 giving the Currency away (aka Payer).

- -The Payer must have at least the amount of the transfer in their account.

If the above conditions are met, then the Fianacier shall credit and debit
the appropriate accounts.  If the transaction is invalid for any reason,
a public message shall be posted explaining why the transaction was
invalid.  [[if no message is posted, we can assume the transfer was made]]

[[Is is silly that I must inform the Fianacier that I wish to accept
the money that someone wishes to give me]]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 13:35:39 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 906

Proposal 906 - Mon Jun 10 13:35:39 EDT 1996
Restrictions on Points
Mohammed  (Jason Orendorff)

No one may have thier point total or score changed for any reason, except
by methods described in the Rules.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:16:46 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Acka: Official: Financial Accounts 

Ackazens,

Here are the financial account details for all the active players.  No PFBond
yields are included because the FM was closed up until last Monday, so the
current two-week cycle is not complete.  Moreover, we appear to have a winner,
which will change alot of things.  Once we agree upon Wayne's or Bascule's
winningness, I will perform the requisite calculations.  Functional officer
salaries were paid last Tuesday, and will be paid again tomorrow.  All FM
transactions known to me have been applied to these figures, and have been
sent off for posting on the FM page.

ThinMan
Financier
Senator
All-around great guy.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

List of accounts as of 6/10/96

- ---------
Stats:
Ackadollars in circulation:
A$ 22,714

Average Per Player:
A$ 988

Treasury:
A$ 52,286

- --------

Name of Player [Acka Name]
A$xxx		nnn PFxxx

/dev/joe
A$1004		100 PF/dev

Bascule
A$1019		100 PFBascule

Brinjal
A$955		100 PFBrinjal

Calvin N Hobbes
A$930		100 PFCalvin

chess piece face
A$905		100 PFchess

De'ghew
A$952		100 PFDe'ghew

Dr McSpong
A$1015		100 PFDr

fon
A$990		100 PFfon

Malenkai
A$1091		100 PFMalenka

Merlin The Happy Pig
A$892		100 PFMerlin

Mohammed
A$1048		100 PFMohamme

mr cwm
A$1001		100 PFmr

Niccolo Flychuck
A$983		100 PFNiccolo

Robert Sevin
A$993		100 PFRobert

Robin Hood
A$1075		100 PFRobin

Simon Marty Harriman
A$912		100 PFSimon

SnafuMoose
A$992		100 PFSnafuMo

snowgod
A$958		100 PFsnowgod

Techno
A$939		100 PFTechno

The Great Old One
A$900		100 PFThe

ThinMan
A$1039		100 PFThinMan

this is not a name
A$969 		100 PFthis

Wayne
A$1152		100 PFWayne
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:34:34 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 904 

Pr904> If a Player wins the Game according to the Rules, then the same
Pr904> procedure shall occur as if he had won a cycle [currently
Pr904> defined by Rule 666].  In particular, the game shall not end.

this Proposal has the same problem as a number of Acka's Rules, in
that it establishes a chain of events, but no timetable for the
occurence of those events.  while it would establish that the
procedure for end of cycle shall be applied when a Player wins the
Game, it doesn't say _when_ it is to be applied.

in this case, the problem may be remedied by replacing the first "If"
in the proposal with the word "When".  eliminating the redundant word
"then" would be nice, too.

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:37:15 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Prop 850 Passes 

Pr850> Ackanomia wishes to commend former Speaker Robert Sevin for his
Pr850> distinguished service to the land. The day after this
Pr850> Resolution passes, a ceremonial parade will be held in his
Pr850> honor.

just who is paying for this parade, anyway? :)

(by the way, is there _any_ chance of getting a default "Reply-To" on
this list?  i am tired of having to twiddle my headers)

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 15:44:31 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Ackanomic: Proposal 907

Proposal 907 - Mon Jun 10 15:44:30 EDT 1996
Spring Cleaning
Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)

Repeal 306
Repeal 379
Repeal 339
Repeal 431

[[ These proposal have been around long enough.  Let's clean house and
make room for some more proposals. ]]
[[
Rule 306/0 (Mutable)
The Magic Potato
Sean Crystal

     This rule creates a nomic entity known as the Magic Potato. The Magic Potato will be given to a randomly
     chosen player each week. The responsibility of chosing the Player randomly will be left up to the Speaker.
     There will exist only one Magic Potato at any one time. The Player that currently holds the Magic Potato will
     gain two extra points for each proposal of his that is accepted while he holds the Magic Potato. 

     The first Magic Potato will be given out on the first Monday following the accepting of this Proposal into law.

   Created by Proposal 306, Jan 30 1996

Rule 339/0 (Mutable)
Keep 'Em In The Game
Mitchell Harding

     Anyone whose score is below -60 automatically has it reset back to 0. Anyone whose score
     reaches exactly -60 has their score changed to 20.

   Created by Proposal 339, Jan 30 1996

Rule 379/0 (Mutable)
Short is Good
Wayne Sheppard

     Any player who makes a proposal that has less that five lines of text in the body of the proposal
     shall be awarded five points if the proposal passes. 

   Created by Proposal 379, Feb 6 1996

Rule 431/1 (Mutable)
Consecutive NO Votes
Mitchell Harding

     No player may cast a vote of no more than 7 times consecutively. Abstention from a vote does
     not count as making a series of votes nonconsecutive. In other words, no one can vote No for
     more than 7 proposals before having to vote Yes for one. The "ordering" of the votes cast will
     be ordered based on the numbering of the proposals. Therefore you could not vote No for
     Proposals 401-408 and Yes for Proposal 409, no matter what order the votes were cast in.
     The chronological ordering of the votes is unimportant, only the numbering of the proposals that
     were voted on.

   Created by Proposal 304, Jan 23 1996
   Amended by Proposal 431, Mar 1 1996, by Robert Sevin (Mitchell Harding)
]]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:47:17 +0000
From: Matt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: three new Blueprints

He who steals from the rich to give to the poor wrote: 
> Buy a wrench to throw in the works.
> If any body should be able to veto such creations,
> it should be all ackanomia. I like the idea.
> 
>  Robin Hood 

I have to say, I do like the Pyraic Frobnotzer. I don't have a
problem with it. It gave me a kick in the pants to make me
realise (realize?) that this blueprint malarkey can do an 
_enormous_ amount. I have no objection to crazy stuff (I love
it, me) but I'd prefer a safety net. Impeachment of the
inventor is one answer, proposal 903 is another. Note, too,
that 903 wouldn't destroy prohibited gadgets... it would
allow a CFCJ to be made against the inventor. So, the
judicial process would have to be completed before the
Inventor's manufacturing time expired.  :-)

Bascule

PS All Ackanomia would still have power of veto:
1) through impeachment of the inventor
2) through a proposal to nuke a given gadget.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:48:11 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i 

"cwm" == cwm  <[email-masked]> writes:

cwm> I believe you are claiming to have received or gained some
cwm> points, and while I haven't done a completely exhaustive search
cwm> of the rules, I believe that receiving, gaining, and losing
cwm> points is, in fact, a regulated activity.  Rule 207 ("Scoring
cwm> When a Proposal is Adopted"), for one example, reads

cwm>      When a proposed rule change is adopted, those players who
cwm> voted against it receive 5 points each.  A player whose proposed
cwm> rule change is adopted also receives 10 points.

all this demonstrates is that receiving points as a result of the
adoption of a proposal is regulated, not that receiving points in
general is regulated.

would you say that the existence of a speed limit on I-465 in any way
regulates the speed of cars at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway?

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 20:52:20 +0000
From: Matt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 904

> Pr904> If a Player wins the Game according to the Rules, then the same
> Pr904> procedure shall occur as if he had won a cycle [currently
> Pr904> defined by Rule 666].  In particular, the game shall not end.
> 
> this Proposal has the same problem as a number of Acka's Rules, in
> that it establishes a chain of events, but no timetable for the
> occurence of those events.  while it would establish that the
> procedure for end of cycle shall be applied when a Player wins the
> Game, it doesn't say _when_ it is to be applied.
> 
> in this case, the problem may be remedied by replacing the first "If"
> in the proposal with the word "When".  eliminating the redundant word
> "then" would be nice, too.
> 
> k.

Well, no. The changes described above would not remedy any problem.
The changes will happen instantaneously whether the rule says "if"
or "when". The problem is in establishing whether the game has been
won or not.

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:53:44 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i 

on the question of someone's score being a protected entity:

one's score is an agglomeration of one or more points, and Rule 660 is
clear in designating points as protected entities.  changing someone's
score constitutes a manipulation of one or more protected entities,
and changing someone's score in a manner not in accordance with the
Rules would thus be a manipulation prohibited by Rule 592.  seems like
a pretty straightforward argument.

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 15:05:07 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: dormant rules?

i note that a number of Rules claim to make themselves dormant.  i
find this potentially paradoxical, because the act of making oneself
impotent renders oneself incapable of making oneself impotent...

in any case, what i'm more wondering is if it's possible for a dormant
rule to wake itself back up.  after all, if it's dormant, it cannot
"be acted upon" (Rule 558), so any provision within the Rule which
might cause it to cease to be dormant cannot be acted upon and thus
the Rule must remain dormant until awakened in some other manner.

the other problem is that i see no Rule which grants Rules the power
to make Rules dormant.  now, this in itself is no great problem, i
suppose; Rules can claim any power they want for themselves.  

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:59:02 -0500
From: Kelly Martin <[email-masked]> 
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i 

"Mohammed" == Mohammed  <[email-masked]> writes:

Mohammed> It was my opinion upon reading it for the first time that
Mohammed> the whole idea of regulation applies to processes, not
Mohammed> things.  That is, "Regulation of the Sale of Cabbages" is
Mohammed> correct, whereas "Regulation of Cabbages" would not be.

when one speaks of regulating a thing, one is in fact speaking of
regulating the manner (or manners) in which that thing is manipulated.
thus, regulating guns is regulating the manner in which guns are
bought, sold, used, exchanged, and otherwise manipulated.

k.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 16:12:13 EDT 
From: [email-masked] ()
Subject: Acka: P905 + 906

Folks, somehow my script found a bug somewhere.  It attributed P905 and
P906 to Mohammed.  In actuality, the proposals are my proposals.  I've
corrected the author line and am listing them here to prevent anymore
confusion.

Proposal 905 - Mon Jun 10 13:32:54 EDT 1996
Transfer of Currency
Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)

To transfer Currency [Ackadollars (A$)] from one player to another, both of
the following conditions must be met.

- -The intent to transfer must be made in the public forum by the player
 giving the Currency away (aka Payer).

- -The Payer must have at least the amount of the transfer in their account.

If the above conditions are met, then the Fianacier shall credit and debit
the appropriate accounts.  If the transaction is invalid for any reason,
a public message shall be posted explaining why the transaction was
invalid.  [[if no message is posted, we can assume the transfer was made]]

[[Is is silly that I must inform the Fianacier that I wish to accept
the money that someone wishes to give me]]

Proposal 906 - Mon Jun 10 13:35:39 EDT 1996
Restrictions on Points
Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)

No one may have thier point total or score changed for any reason, except
by methods described in the Rules.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:57:34 -0400
From: Dan Marsh <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Ackanomic:  CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i 

At 03:15 PM 6/7/96 -0400, Mike Epstein <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Call For Judgement 92.9 + 2.718i
>  Subject:  No Creativity
>Initiator:  Malenkai
>    Judge:  Niccolo Flychuck (selected at 1102h CDT on 7 June 1996)
>
>Statement:
>> this is not a name's attempt to declare the Governor's 61 points for
>> himself by R115 is illegal, and this change should be reversed by
>> the Scorekeeper if the change has officially been made by the
>> Scorekeeper.
>
>Malenkai's comments:
>> Acquisition of points is clearly a regulated activity. R115 only applies
>> to unregulated activities. I request the Judge read CFJ 113. Been here,
>> done that. Upon a verdict of TRUE, the scorekeeper should disregard this
>> is not a name's attempt.
>
>> I am very disappointed in this is not a name's persistance on this issue
>> after all that has been said about it, and given all of the interesting
>> stuff going on in the game now, it is a shame to waste bandwidth on this
>> issue now. I ask all players to read CFJ 113 before invoking R115 to
>> adjust your score.
>
>--Mohammed, Clerk of the Courts

I haven't participated in this debate, because, well, I'm not participating
in the game any longer.  But, let me point out, that "this is not a name"
did not simply CLAIM my points.  I gave them to him.  Without going back to
reread CFJ 113 (as a non-player, I don't have to), the situation is
different.  113 covered a player creating points outside the rules and
giving them to himself.  This situation covers points created totally within
the rules, being transferred.  There are already examples in the rule set of
players paying an X-point penalty or fee to do this or that (eg withdraw a
proposal), so points are obviously an entity that can be transferred between
players and whencever points originate.  Why, then, can points not be
transferred between players?

I maintain that I was able to do whatever I wanted with my points, once
earned, because CFJ113 was more specific than Malenkai seems to think.
Therefore they now belong to "this is not a name."

Anybody responding to this post should CC it to me if they wish a response
from me; I no longer read the public Ackanomic list.

I enjoyed Ackanomic but couldn't handle the 75-100 messages a day that it
generated.  If anyone cares to start a small Nomic that doesn't go over 10
players (perhaps it could be immutably limited to 10), then give me a buzz.
As two renowned idiots have famously uttered, "We're there, dude."

Dan Marsh                                                  [email-masked]
for Kent County Commission, District 17              Grand Rapids, Michigan
"Government doesn't work.  The only way we can bring back the inner city is
 to do it ourselves.  My job is to make sure that's possible."  --Dan Marsh

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:38:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 905

> Proposal 905 - Mon Jun 10 13:32:54 EDT 1996
> Transfer of Currency
> Mohammed  (Jason Orendorff)
> 

[snip]

> [[Is is silly that I must inform the Fianacier that I wish to accept
> the money that someone wishes to give me]]
> 

One might have said the same thing about points, once.  Can we assume that
having A$ will always be desirable?

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:43:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i 

On Mon, 10 Jun 1996, Kelly Martin wrote:

> "cwm" == cwm  <[email-masked]> writes:
> 
> cwm> I believe you are claiming to have received or gained some
> cwm> points, and while I haven't done a completely exhaustive search
> cwm> of the rules, I believe that receiving, gaining, and losing
> cwm> points is, in fact, a regulated activity.  Rule 207 ("Scoring
> cwm> When a Proposal is Adopted"), for one example, reads
> 
> cwm>      When a proposed rule change is adopted, those players who
> cwm> voted against it receive 5 points each.  A player whose proposed
> cwm> rule change is adopted also receives 10 points.
> 
> all this demonstrates is that receiving points as a result of the
> adoption of a proposal is regulated, not that receiving points in
> general is regulated.
> 
> would you say that the existence of a speed limit on I-465 in any way
> regulates the speed of cars at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway?
> 
> k.
> 

I will once the US government and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway join
Ackanomic as Players, and become subject to the game custom of CFJ 113. 
Do you think we can convince them to sign up?

- -mr cwm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 17:57:28 -0400
From: this is not a name <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 907

>Proposal 907 - Mon Jun 10 15:44:30 EDT 1996
>Spring Cleaning
>Wayne  (Wayne Sheppard)
>
>Repeal 306
>Repeal 379
>Repeal 339
>Repeal 431
>
>[[ These proposal have been around long enough.  Let's clean house and
>make room for some more proposals. ]]

There's plenty of room for all sorts of rules. There's no limit on the 
rule set. These rules are short and fun. I urge a NO vote on 907.

this is not a name
Historian
File Clerk

- --
        Mike Epstein     [email-masked]     Long Island, NY
"To move the [elevator] cabin, push button of wishing floor. If the
 cabin should enter more persons, each one should push the number of
 wishing floor. Driving is then going alphabetically by natural order.
 Button retaining pressed position shows received command for visiting
 station."                             --Directions in a Madrid hotel
http://www.nyiq.net/~epstein/          Finger for PGP 2.6.2 public key

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:00:58 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: ACka: Proposal 851 FAILS 

Players on Vacation who did not vote:
  fon
  The Great Old One
  chess piece face       Foozball
  Simon Marty Harriman   Foozball
 *Foozball Unity vote*
  Robert Sevin           Foozball

Check out that foozball (perminant vacation) unity vote!!!

Huh, Cool.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:15:30 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Prop 839 Passes

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Here are the voting results for : 839
>   Proposal 839 - Sat Jun 01 11:16:21 EDT 1996
>   Buildings
>   Calvin N Hobbes  (Thierry Joffrain)
> 

As a result of the passing of this resolution I name my
abode Malenkai's Castle.

Malenkai (Jazz Jackrabbit)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:27:19 -0700
From: Jazz Jackrabbit <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 886

Mohammed wrote:
> 
> > I tend to agree with you Nicolo.  I would be all for a requirement that
> > prpaganda on web pages by marked as such.
>         That's camel waste.  The way to solve this problem is to say,
> "snowgod, if you don't get all the propaganda off your web page within the
> next 24 hours, I'm submitting an IP against you."

That is too strong. snowgod is doing a good job. Should one objectionable
thing be cause for Impeachment?

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 17:44:36 -0500
From: T Joffrain <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: dormant rules? 

>i note that a number of Rules claim to make themselves dormant.  i
>find this potentially paradoxical, because the act of making oneself
>impotent renders oneself incapable of making oneself impotent...

It isn't really strange. I decide to kill myself, just because I did die
doesn't mean I can't kill myself: I did. I am assuming a continuous one
dimensional timeline, but then can humans really understand any other?

>in any case, what i'm more wondering is if it's possible for a dormant
>rule to wake itself back up.  after all, if it's dormant, it cannot
>"be acted upon" (Rule 558), so any provision within the Rule which
>might cause it to cease to be dormant cannot be acted upon and thus
>the Rule must remain dormant until awakened in some other manner.

Think of it as a will (contract, testament, whatever) if it helps. It is an
interesting point, and we could argue about it for years: a CFJ should be
called on this, but it is not a problem.

>the other problem is that i see no Rule which grants Rules the power
>to make Rules dormant.  now, this in itself is no great problem, i
>suppose; Rules can claim any power they want for themselves.  

Hum, that's interesting.
I think that's another CFJ right there...

Good points.

CnH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:40:50 -0700
From: Jazz Jackrabbit <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 898

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Proposal 898 - Mon Jun 10 00:26:42 EDT 1996
> Ack! Pfffft!
> /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)
> 
> Transmute Rule 106 to Immutable.
> [[Mohammed's proposal to transmute this rule to mutable passed almost
> a month ago.  If he had real plans for changing the rule, he should have
> submitted them by now.]]

I retract P893, entitled "Zap!" and take a 1 point penalty. The timing
was uncanny. I recommend a YES for this proposal.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 18:46:57 -0700
From: Jazz Jackrabbit <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Proposal 899

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Proposal 899 - Mon Jun 10 00:26:57 EDT 1996
> Banning Forged Mail
> /dev/joe  (Joseph DeVincentis)
> 
> Nobody may send e-mail related to Ackanomic in such a manner that it
> appears to be from any email address besides their own, except in the case
> of resending email to other players/observers, as is the case with mailing
> lists.  [[Leave the punishment up to a CFCJ.]]

I respectfully request a clause, or at least existing game custom,
to allow for people like myself with dreadful ISPs who must do so
to maintain game play. I cannot switch ISPs lightning fast.

I realise these actions are not directed against my current state (at
least I hope not), but the wording does not permit it as it does for
the mailing list.

Malenkai, still using
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

working on the problem

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #43
******************************