Subject: Ackanomic Digest V1 #10
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Digest)
To: ackanomic-digest

Ackanomic Digest        Saturday, May 25 1996        Volume 01 : Number 010

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Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 01:42:06 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: CFCJ 2

>[I snip bandwidth for brevity, not censorship]
>
>Yes I did, but hypocritical would have been to claim that I did not
>violate the rules, or resist judgement. I did neither of these things,
>and am therefore not hypocritical. I respectfully ask snowgod to
>withdrawl the "hypocritical" charge. Even snowgod's faction is claiming
>that this is not a name did not violate the rule. so how could have I?
>Thats hypocritical, actually!

Truth be told, Malenkai, I do believe that this is not a name's post was in
violation of the rules.  With that belief you are right, my message would
be hippocritical, but i do and it's not.  I also believe that you violated
this rule in the past, as have I and several other players.

>I refer you to the key part of the CFCJ's text, which snowgod and his
>faction apparently did not see it fit to read:
>
>> While I do not agree, in general, that such an act should be treated
>> with criminal proceedings, this specific case requires stiff penalties,
>> as this is not a name is using this mechanism to claim the deceased
>> Governor's score for himself.

I read the entire CFCJ, and believe it or not, I actually agreed with you.
A CFCJ is not the appropiate response to this minor an infraction of the
rules.

>Its obvious that this is not about the subject line, but snowgod's
>minions and supporters illegally sponging the dead's points for
>themselves and their own self-promotional needs. They are being anal
>by not looking at the intent, and calling it "anal"!

What makes it so obvious?  My "minions" (that's a cool word by the way, so
much more degrading than faction) may be trying to sponge points, but
that's not for me to decide.  I would have no personal gain should this is
not a name gain the govenors points, nor do I stand to lose anything if he
fails.  I merely wished to point out that you, Malenkai, have been guilty
of the same crime (subject line violations) in the past that you are
prosecuting this is not a name under in the present.

>If snowgod cannot find the time to read the content he so libly comments
>on, how can we trust him with the rules?! To read the rules?!

I have a complete text of the rules, as well as all past proposal and CFJs
in a series of notebooks at my desk.  I have read them, researched through
them, and used them as a guide to write my proposals.  Obviously you don't
or you would have known why P763 and P764 were invalid without having to
ask me.

>snowgod claims I will break my promise if elected CSRR. At least I have a
>promise to break. I will not break it. snowgod can do anything, because he
>has no promises to break, only mud to sling.

Whoa!  Hold it right there partner.  Snowgod claimed no such thing.
Snowgod merely stated that a player who exhibits such unbridled hypocracy
would be the ame type of player that would when elected violate his
campaign promises.

As for having no promises to break, I wish we had an "Honesty Moon" I could
call on.  I have stated in past messages that if elected as CSRR I would
look through the rules, and issue a CSR only when I found glaring
inconsistancies in the ruleset.  I also said that I would be responsive to
other players suggestions about inconsistancies, and research any claims
players sent to the CSRR.  Don't believe me?? Look back at some of your old
mail... you can do it right after you look back through all those rules and
CFJs and pproposals.

>
>> Just to be fair...
>
>While your supporter keeps his illegal 61 points? C'mon. Does the (None
>Yet) party have some sort of point sharing agreement in place. Is the
>intent here really to have one of their members gain control of the rules
>and slip eggs in? Read their charter. Do not trust this faction with the
>rules!

The only the (None Yet) party has is four players with similar points of
view and an amazing record on party unity votes.  If one of my party memers
does gain the 61 one points the legality of that move can be debated
through CFJ.

As for the charter...  None Yet supports proposals that are self
referential or themselves a good example of what they propose.  None yet
does not support destructive rules,  loosely written rules, or rules that
have no relation to actual gameplay.  Not yet is a party that decides on
proposals on a case by case basis.  Not just by who proposed it.

My only intent here is to put a person in offive who supports this rule,
and carry it out as intended.

>Malenkai for CSRR, Protect the Rules.

Malenkai for CSRR, Ignore the Rules.

>(In good fun)

Well, we agree on something at least.

[Keep reading.... theres more below....]

>> The [surely to be snipped as bandwidth wasting in Malenkai's reply] header
>> from Malenkai's offending post follows:
>>
>> Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 00:52:55 -0700
>> From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>> To: [email-masked]
>> Subject: *Achanomic: Opinion*
>>
>> [astericks added by [snowgod]]
>
>And I'm sure the "opinion" behind this post was as illegal as (None Yet)
>members and snowgod minions illegally sponging the dead's points. snowgod
>doesn't feel fit to address the content of the post he finds offensive.
>He is using an anal argument against allegedly anal behaviour which he
>objects to. Thats hypocracy.

I find nothing about the above post offensive, save for the subject line,
and see no reason to argue it's merits.  If I remember right, the message
dealt with the end of game situation, where i supported your actions.  I
will remain nuetral on the issue of the Govenors points, for that is not
what we are talking about here.  what we are talking about is the fact the
a CFCJ was issued in an attempt to prosecute this is not a name for a crime
the initiator has commited too.  That's the hypocrisy.

Snowgod for CSRR
I've read the rules.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 01:49:17 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Re: Ackanomic: Official: Vacation

Hey, Malenkai,  don't know if you will recieve this or not, but you sound
as if you ar dying, not just goin away for 11 or so days.  Come back soon,
I can't wait forever to run for the office of CSRR, but I suppose I can
wait eleven days.  That should give me time to stir up up some new mud :)

And thanks for the compliment.  If elected CSRR I promise to do as good a
job in that position, as you say that I have done as ambassador!

Bored with no one to pick on,
snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 08:00:38 -0700
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic: Official: 

1) I am back from vacation

2) I am retracting CFCJ 2, as I find myself agreeing with mr cwm's
argument, thus the CFCJ has no grounds. As a CFCJ is identical to a CFJ
in all unregulated ways, I can do this for a 1 point penalty.

3) I would like to reiterate that I agree that a CFCJ for subject lines
is inappropriate. The A$50 court fee was written in to limit "frivilious"
or "anal" CFCJs. I did not make it clear what I was doing, and for
any inconvienence caused, do apologize.

4) I have submitted a CFJ claiming this is not a name's claim of 61 
points by R115 is illegal, using logic similar to that of CFJ 113, as
obtaining points is a regulated activity. I wish to retract that CFJ
as well, it need not even be distributed. I wonder if this is legal. I
pay a 1 point penalty. I still maintain that the act was illegal, but
do not like throwing around actions when I will not be around to take the
heat, if any, for them. I encourage someone else to submit a CFJ nullifying
the action, if they agree, because to allow what the Governor and this
is not a name attempted to do would establish "game custion" that IMHO,
is not good for the game (and I think is illegal, of course).

5) I think popping in and out of vacation like this is cheesy, and will
not do it again. I thought I needed to attempt to clean this up as best
I could, before it got out of hand. There was still a chance that this
action would cause this is not a name to quit, and I do not want that.

6) I now place myself back on vacation, as per my original post.

Cheers,
Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 13:16:32 GMT
From: [email-masked] (Stephen F Roberts)
Subject: ackanomic: cfcj1

...As is my proud duty in response to my addendum on CFCJ1:

...I publicly and gratefully thank Wayne and all the other
Ackanomic bureaucrats!

(ps: Wayne, my addendum requires all players to thank you, that
means you have to thank yourself! hehehe!)

SnafuMoose
Amazing AckaCitizen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:25:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: mr cwm <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Misc: Help! CFJ 171

To:  Ackanomians
From:  mr cwm

CFJ 171 turns on whether or not our Speaker is on Vacation.  If anyone has
kept a copy of a message from him placing himself on Vacation,
pleasepleaseplease forward it to me.  Soon.  Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:57:09 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Martijn Faassen <[email-masked]>
Subject: Unsubscribe

Could everybody please take me off his/her ackanomic list? Thank you
(I found real life was too much to keep up with this..unfortunately)

Ypsilon/Martijn ([email-masked])

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Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:07:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: Martin Faassen says goodbye

Martijn mailed this to the list, and majordomo rejected it because of the
subject line which was simply "Subject: Unsubscribe".  There's another list
I'm on which I wish was so good about filtering out the unsubscribe messages.
I couldn't get the "approve" thing to work right; it kept bouncing the thing
back to me.  Anyway, I removed him from all the lists here.
He is (was) player Tera Ypsilon.

>From: Martijn Faassen <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Unsubscribe
>To: [email-masked] (acka nomic)
>Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:57:09 +0200 (MET DST)
>
>Could everybody please take me off his/her ackanomic list? Thank you
>(I found real life was too much to keep up with this..unfortunately)
>
>Ypsilon/Martijn ([email-masked])

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:11:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic: CFJ 172

Call for Judgement 172
  Subject:  No Creativity
Initiator:  Malenkai
    Judge:  De'ghew (selected at 1410h CDT on 24 May 1996.)

Statement:
> this is not a name's attempt to declare the Governor's points for
> himself by R115 is illegal.

Malenkai's comments:
> Acquisition of points is clearly a regulated activity. R115 only applies
> to unregulated activities. I request the Judge read CFJ 113. Been here,
> done that. Upon a verdict of TRUE, the scorekeeper should disregard this
> is not a name's attempt.

- --Mohammed, Clerk of the Courts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:33:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic:  Judgement 172

Judgement 172
  Subject:  No Creativity
Initiator:  Malenkai
    Judge:  De'ghew (selected at 1410h CDT on 24 May 1996)
Judgement:  (retracted by Malenkai on 24 May 1996)

Statement:
> this is not a name's attempt to declare the Governor's points for
> himself by R115 is illegal.

Malenkai's comments:
> Acquisition of points is clearly a regulated activity. R115 only applies
> to unregulated activities. I request the Judge read CFJ 113. Been here,
> done that. Upon a verdict of TRUE, the scorekeeper should disregard this
> is not a name's attempt.

- --Mohammed, Clerk of the Courts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:35:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic: CFCJ 2 retracted

Criminal Judgement 2
  Subject:  Subject Lines
Initiator:  Malenkai
    Judge:  Meme Complex (selected at 1050h on 22 May 1996)
Judgement:  (retracted by Malenkai on 24 May 1996)

Statement:
> this is not a name violated Rule 101.

Malenkai's reasoning:
> In a post dated 21May96 to the public forum, claiming the Governor's
> score for himself, this is not a name used the subject line "Re: Score".
> 
> This is clearly in violation of the rule entitled "Limited Line
> Subject Lengths", which says:
> 
> "The SL for any message that does not fit into one of the above
> categories, unless it is defined by some other rule, shall be of the
> form: "Ackanomic: Misc (Explanation)"
> 
> I claim this is not a name's subject line does not follow this form.
> Furthermore, it does not follow any of the "above categories" of the
> rule, nor does it follow anything "defined by some other rule". 
> 
> Therefore it is in violation of "Limited Line Subject Lengths", thus is
> in violation of R101.
> 
> While I do not agree, in general, that such an act should be treated
> with criminal proceedings, this specific case requires stiff penalties,
> as this is not a name is using this mechanism to claim the deceased
> Governor's score for himself.
> 
> Note that this judgement is on the legality of this is not a name's
> subject line, not on the legality of claiming the Governor's points.
> That can be dealt with elsewhere.

Penalty requested:
> A DEDUCTION of 61 points from this is not a name's score, the amount he
> is attempting to claim from the deceased Governor.
> 
> A FINE of 50 units of currency (the equivalent of the court fee)

- --Mohammed, Clerk of the Courts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:37:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic:  CFJ 170

I just realized this didn't go out publicly.  Here it is, with my 
apologies.

Judgement 170
  Subject:  Silliness
Initiator:  this is not a name
    Judge:  Brinjal (selected at 1430h CDT on 24 May 1996)

Statement:
> Bascule receives 5 points and is silly because Proposal 728 passed.

this is not a name's comments:
> Reasoning:
> Proposal 728 reads:
> >Proposal 728 - Thu May 09 02:12:03 EDT 1996
> >That's just silly
> >Bascule  (Matt Black)
> >
> >If an adopted proposal contains the phrase "cows eat grass", 
> >then the proposer who proposed the change is said to be silly,
> >and shall score 5 points.
> >
> >[[ This rule does not apply to this rule. ]]
> 
> According to rule 545 (quoted in part):
> >Any text in doube square brackets [[e.g this]] is considered to be a 
> >temporary note provided by the author, but meant to be excluded completly 
> >from the text of the rule when it is officially published. This rule 
> >expilcitly does not apply to this rule.
> 
> So the statement that Rule 728 does not apply to itself is nonexistent. 
> Therefore, since Proposal 728 was adopted at the time its Rule took 
> effect, Bascule is silly and he must receive 5 points.

- --Mohammed, Clerk of the Courts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:27:49 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Acanomic: Discussion: CSRR 

With all the mud slung between Malenkai and I, it's started to bother me
that some people may have forgetten the point of this whole race.  Simply
stated it is this:

Malenkai is opposed to the office of CSRR.  If elected as CSRR he claims he
will do absolutly nothing in that position.  His campaign slogan is
"Malenkai for CSRR. Protect the Rules"

I, on the other, hand believe in the office of CSRR.  If elected I will
examine the rules and issue a Common Sense Report only when i discover a
glaring inconsistancy in the rules.  I shall be responsive to players
suggestions, but I will not issue CSRs to gain political favors.  I have no
official campaign slogan.

So that's basically it.  This is not an attempt at advertising, nor an
attempt to influence any votes.  I just wanted to clear up a situation that
may have been clouded up or buried under excessive mud.  All that being
said, I shall wait until Malenkai returns from vacation to begin
campaigning again (assuming that the appointer doesn't get the show on the
road before then).

Hope this helps,
snowgod

"He belongs to that race of men who are always their adversary's best
champions."

- - Umberto Eco
  The Name of the Rose

Visit http://www.alaska.net/~snowgod for the ultimate source
of Information on Thinumabobs and Whatchamacallits.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:33:35 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Ackanomic: Discussion: CSRR 

With all the mud slung between Malenkai and I, it's started to bother me
that some people may have forgetten the point of this whole race.  Simply
stated it is this:

Malenkai is opposed to the office of CSRR.  If elected as CSRR he claims he
will do absolutly nothing in that position.  His campaign slogan is
"Malenkai for CSRR. Protect the Rules"

I, on the other, hand believe in the office of CSRR.  If elected I will
examine the rules and issue a Common Sense Report only when i discover a
glaring inconsistancy in the rules.  I shall be responsive to players
suggestions, but I will not issue CSRs to gain political favors.  I have no
official campaign slogan.

So that's basically it.  This is not an attempt at advertising, nor an
attempt to influence any votes.  I just wanted to clear up a situation that
may have been clouded up or buried under excessive mud.  All that being
said, I shall wait until Malenkai returns from vacation to begin
campaigning again (assuming that the appointer doesn't get the show on the
road before then).

Hope this helps,
snowgod

"He belongs to that race of men who are always their adversary's best
champions."

- - Umberto Eco
  The Name of the Rose

Visit http://www.alaska.net/~snowgod for the ultimate source
of Information on Thinumabobs and Whatchamacallits.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:45:46 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Phil Ackley)
Subject: Ackanomic: No Dead Players

To: Mohammed (Acting Speaker)
CC: Ackanomic Citizens

Robert Sevin was due back from vacation 7 days ago.  Since that time he has
not publically communicated with all of the ackanomic players.  Per R362
(No Dead Players Allowed) I am requesting that the acting speaker send a
message to Robert Sevin asking him if he wishes to remain in the game and
pointing out why the message is being sent.  If Robert Sevin does not
respond within two days he shall no longer be a player in the game.

I imagine his removal will have to wait until Robert Sevin's vacation
status is decided by CFJ, or maybe not.  In any case, I have made my
request and see no reason why the acting speaker should not send out a
message to Robert Sevin as soon as possible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 20:07:08 -0600 (CST)
From: "Mitchell Harding" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Ackanomic: Official 

I am not dead, so don't delete me. I am hereby on vacation until May 29th
1996. I am currently having difficulties using my usual mail reader (Eudora,
running under Windows 95) and therefore I cannot fully catch up. I will
endeavor to get Windows 95 happy once again.

I suggest you give my offices to other, more active individuals. I hereby
resign from all of my offices...

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 May 96 23:28:13 -0400
From: this is not a name <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Official: Candidacy for Appointer

>I suggest you give my offices to other, more active individuals. I hereby
>resign from all of my offices...

I announce my candidacy (second time's the charm?) for the office of 
Appointer. But who will conduct the election?

this is not a name
Ackanomic Historian
Candidate for Appointer

- --
        Mike Epstein     [email-masked]     Long Island, NY
"One day Donald Trump will discover that he is owned -- lock, stock,
 and roulette wheel -- by the Lutheran Brotherhood and must renegotiate
 his debt load with a committee of silent Norwegians who don't understand
 why anyone would pay more than $120 for a suit."
                                       --Garrison Keillor, 1995
http://www.nyiq.net/~epstein/          Finger for PGP 2.6.2 public key

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End of Ackanomic Digest V1 #10
******************************