Received: with LISTAR (v0.126a; list acka); Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: acka-digest@ackanomic.org To: acka digest users Reply-to: acka@ackanomic.org Subject: acka Digest V1 #26 Precedence: bulk List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Listar version 0.126a List-name: acka List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: acka Digest Wednesday, October 13 1999 Volume: 01 Issue: 026 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Henry Towsner Subject: Acka: The Soul Train Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:47:23 -0400 (EDT) I give two-star's soul to him. Or offer it. Or whatever. ------------------------------ From: Alexandre Owen Muniz Subject: Acka: Re: The Soul Train Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Henry Towsner wrote: > > I give two-star's soul to him. Or offer it. Or whatever. I accept. But the deal was *both* souls ------------------------------ From: Henry Towsner Subject: Acka: The Soul Train, car 2 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:20:11 -0400 (EDT) I also give two-star my soul. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Postmasters Fedora Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:38:47 -0400 (EDT) I have a web page up now at http://www.ackanomic.org/~jtraub/ I have also placed the HTML and the title image into CVS so that if other folks want to make use of them they can for their ackanomic pages. --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Proposal 51 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:24:21 -0400 (EDT) As wearer of the Postmaster's Fedora (and thus responsible for tracking which players are members of the game and their email addresses) I have sent out the notification as required by the rule created by P51 (8675309) to all players who did not vote on P51. I will post the official list of registered players one week from tonight. --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: More soulful interactions From: Seth Nickell Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 04:15:45 -0400 (EDT) I create a soul named null. I give the soul null to else...if. -Seth ------------------------------ From: Mitchell Harding Subject: Acka: My soul's name Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:56:14 -0400 (EDT) >As a small note, you should also post a message to acka@ackanomic.org >naming your soul since you have not done so yet. My soul is named Robert Sevin. Harf, Robert Sevin http://www.mitcharf.com/ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Proposal 55 accepted From: ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:23:26 -0400 (EDT) Proposal 55 Yes/No vote totals: 13-3: proposal accepted Yes: IdiotBoy (1) /dev/joe (0) else...if (3) relet (1) ThinMan (1) Heimdall (1) Dragon Mage (3) Tyrethali (1) two-star (0) No: Xylen (1) K 2 (0) Hubert (1) Abstain r-attila the farce (1) breadbox (1) mr cwm (1) Balsamic Dragon (1) Niccolo Flychuck (1) Robert Sevin (1) Wayne (1) Guy Fawkes (1) danke (1) Kane (1) Pure Haste (1) Reductio (1) Fortunato (1) Doctor Slakko (1) Fox (1) marsboy (1) Brinjal (1) Calvin N Hobbes (1) Blest Lax Monk Pal (0) 404 Not Found (1) Robin Hood (1) rufus (2) Piz (1) Voting Gnome (1) this is not a name (1) Mr. Lunatic Fringe (1) Grimace (1) Seth Nickell (1) Studge (1) Malenkai (1) and (1) Cthulhu (1) Chaos (1) Burn the Witch (1) Ballot Stuffer (1) Bascule (1) Subject: Acka: Proposal 55 Proposal 55 Soul fixes Heimdall Due: Wed Oct 13 01:50:01 1999 Status: accepted [Since "Wandering Souls" was created, there are some problems with "Souls" -- namely, a player may be able to transfer eir soul to another player, and then specify another. Alternatively, e may not be able to. But this fixes that possible loophole, regardless. That, and it's less bloaty.] This is a core proposal. Amend section I of the rule named "Souls" to the following ----delimited text. --- I. Souls are a class of ownable thingies. Each soul is a unique string that isn't otherwise part of the gamestate. --- Delete sections II and III from the rule named "Souls", replacing them with the following -----delimited text. ---- II. Any player who does not have a soul must create one in eir possession if and only if e has never created a soul. III. A player may own a maximum of four souls. IV. Each player has exactly one vote for each soul e possesses. A player who lacks a soul has one vote. ---- Repeal the rule named "Wandering Souls". ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Proposal 56 rejected From: ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:23:36 -0400 (EDT) Proposal 56 Yes/No vote totals: 6-11: proposal rejected Yes: K 2 (0) two-star (0) Dragon Mage (3) Hubert (1) No: IdiotBoy (1) /dev/joe (0) else...if (3) relet (1) Malenkai (1) ThinMan (1) Heimdall (1) Tyrethali (1) Xylen (1) Abstain r-attila the farce (1) breadbox (1) mr cwm (1) Balsamic Dragon (1) Niccolo Flychuck (1) Robert Sevin (1) Wayne (1) Guy Fawkes (1) danke (1) Kane (1) Pure Haste (1) Reductio (1) Fortunato (1) Doctor Slakko (1) Fox (1) marsboy (1) Brinjal (1) Calvin N Hobbes (1) Blest Lax Monk Pal (0) 404 Not Found (1) Robin Hood (1) rufus (2) Piz (1) Voting Gnome (1) this is not a name (1) Mr. Lunatic Fringe (1) Grimace (1) Seth Nickell (1) Studge (1) and (1) Cthulhu (1) Chaos (1) Burn the Witch (1) Ballot Stuffer (1) Bascule (1) Subject: Acka: Proposal 56 Proposal 56 Against a Dark Background two-star Due: Wed Oct 13 02:15:17 1999 Status: rejected Create a rule with the text: This rule may not be assigned a number or a name. It is neither core nor arm. Neither is it a green mouse. ------------------------------ From: Alexandre Owen Muniz Subject: Acka: Re: The Soul Train, car 2 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Henry Towsner wrote: > > I also give two-star my soul. I also accept this **two-star ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Are the mailing list digests available for FTP or HTTP access? I don't want to get them all, but occassionally (like now) I want to go back and look for something. Thanks, ThinMan ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:33:51 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, John Bollinger wrote: > > Are the mailing list digests available for FTP or HTTP access? I don't > want to get them all, but occassionally (like now) I want to go back > and look for something. > I know that the OLD ackanomic list digests are available from ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic Unless I miss my guess, I'll bet JT has set up something similar for the new lists.. you may want to poke around there, or wait until JT confirms or denies this. IB dumber than a box of hammers ------------------------------ From: David Scheidt Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:13:11 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Matt Miller wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, John Bollinger wrote: > > > > > Are the mailing list digests available for FTP or HTTP access? I don't > > want to get them all, but occassionally (like now) I want to go back > > and look for something. > > > > I know that the OLD ackanomic list digests are available from > ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic JT says link at http://www.ackanomic.org/~jtraub/. ruf > ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:18:45 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, John Bollinger wrote: > Are the mailing list digests available for FTP or HTTP access? I don't > want to get them all, but occassionally (like now) I want to go back > and look for something. yes, ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic/digests/acka Lists for the old game are also in that same area (under pub/ackanomic/digests) --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "Elio M. Garcia, Jr." Subject: Acka: Name Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:19:04 -0400 (EDT) As I'm remaining a player, I ask to be named Reductio. Or be known as Reductio? Whatever. ;) Reductio ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:19:45 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, David Scheidt wrote: > > I know that the OLD ackanomic list digests are available from > > ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic > > JT says link at http://www.ackanomic.org/~jtraub/. Actually, the link is off of the postmaster page off of that above URL, but it's findable :) --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:20:08 -0400 (EDT) IB wrote: >I know that the OLD ackanomic list digests are available from >ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic > >Unless I miss my guess, I'll bet JT has set up something similar for the >new lists.. you may want to poke around there, or wait until JT confirms >or denies this. Thanks, IB. I've never been accused of hesitancy to poke -- it turns out that the digests are indeed there. Something is a little strange, however: about half of the digests have permissions 644, but the other half have 600. The two types are more-or-less randomly distributed. Needless to say, I can't download any of the latter. And of course, I think what I'm looking for is in one of the ones I can't get. ThinMan FWIW: ftp://ftp.ackanomic.org/pub/ackanomic/digests/acka/ ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:22:27 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, John Bollinger wrote: > Thanks, IB. I've never been accused of hesitancy to poke -- it turns out > that the digests are indeed there. Something is a little strange, however: > about half of the digests have permissions 644, but the other half have 600. > The two types are more-or-less randomly distributed. Needless to say, I > can't download any of the latter. And of course, I think what I'm looking > for is in one of the ones I can't get. I have no idea why that would be the case, but I will go through and check and make sure all the permissions are correct. Thanks for pointing it out. --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:28:22 -0400 (EDT) JT wrote: >I have no idea why that would be the case, but I will go through and check >and make sure all the permissions are correct. Thanks for pointing it >out. I have no idea either, but I observe that all digests created at midnight have permissions 644 whereas those created at other times all have permissions 600. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Re: Digests Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:33:41 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, John Bollinger wrote: > JT wrote: > > >I have no idea why that would be the case, but I will go through and check > >and make sure all the permissions are correct. Thanks for pointing it > >out. > > I have no idea either, but I observe that all digests created at midnight > have permissions 644 whereas those created at other times all have > permissions 600. Hmmm.. but all of those are created by Listar. The only difference between the ones created at midnight is that those are caused by cron invoking listar and the others by listar when too much mail goes through the list in a given period. I suspect that the umode settings are different between the two and I will endeavor to fix it. --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" Subject: Acka: Hihi. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:39:02 -0400 (EDT) As my Acka name I choose "Dan Knapp". Boring, aren't I? ___Dan Knapp, Knight of the Random Seed______________Beep Blip Bonk_______ http://users.bergen.org/~dankna I'm not even going to say that I'm not going to answer that. ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Re: Hihi. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Dan Knapp wrote: > As my Acka name I choose "Dan Knapp". Boring, aren't I? Never. I point my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at Dan Knapp, press the button, and supply the anagram "Red Barn." ThinMan Mind if we call you Bruce to keep it clear? ------------------------------ From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" Subject: Acka: Re: Hihi. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:56:00 -0400 (EDT) > Never. > > I point my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at Dan > Knapp, press the button, and supply the anagram "Red Barn." Have "anagrams" been redefined, recently? :-) Actually, Blue Things probably aren't implemented after the recent crash-like thing, right? (Where are the rules?) If not, this doesn't really do much. ___Dan Knapp, Knight of the Random Seed______________Beep Blip Bonk_______ http://users.bergen.org/~dankna Do YOU suffer from ACKA ADDICTION? Take this test to be sure! ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Re: Hihi. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:08:52 -0400 (EDT) Dan Knapp wrote: >> I point my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at Dan >> Knapp, press the button, and supply the anagram "Red Barn." > > Have "anagrams" been redefined, recently? :-) > Actually, Blue Things probably aren't implemented after the recent >crash-like thing, right? (Where are the rules?) If not, this doesn't really >do much. Nope. :-) Right. (http://www.tumbolia.com/ackarules.html) Since when did that ever stop us? Cheers, ThinMan ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Re: Hihi. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:20:20 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, A.K.A. TheWiz wrote: > > I point my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Too Much, Really at Dan > > Knapp, press the button, and supply the anagram "Red Barn." > > Have "anagrams" been redefined, recently? :-) > Actually, Blue Things probably aren't implemented after the recent > crash-like thing, right? (Where are the rules?) If not, this doesn't really > do much. It in fact doesn't do anything :) Rules are at http://www.tumbolia.com/ackarules.html --JT -- [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Proposal 72 From: ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Proposal 72 Patching Malenkai's Loophole v. 971 beta ThinMan Due: Wed Oct 20 14:48:54 1999 This is a Kernel proposal, and it depends on proposal 64. All Quarantined rules cease to be Quarantined. Create a new rule on the Kernel Sphere, named "Quarantine", numbered with the least positive integer number not yet used for a Kernel rule, and with the following TYPHOID-delimited text: TYPHOID 1. Becoming Quarantined Whenever a new rule is created it is initially quarantined. Whenever a rule is amended it becomes quarantined as part of the amendment. Rules never become Quarantined under any other circumstances. 2. Rogues A Proposal or Quarantined rule X refers only to elements of the game state that are in one or more of the following groups: a) elements for which X specifies a local sphere or a group of Spheres b) elements that supercede X c) elements referred to by non-quarantined rules that supercede X d) elements newly created by X after becoming activated (if X is a proposal) or Quarantined (if X is a rule) e) if X became quarantined by being amended then elements to which X referred before that amendment Elements of the game state not in one of those groups to which X otherwise appears to refer are Rogues with respect to X. No element of the game state is a Rogue with respect to any rule except as described in this rule. 3. Dispatching Rogues One picosecond after a rule becomes Quarantined or after a new Quarantined rule is created, all Rogues with respect to that rule are destroyed and that rule ceases to be quarantined. TYPHOID ------------------------------ From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" Subject: Acka: Check me on this... Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:01:16 -0400 (EDT) You are actually considering the current situation to be a thread split, with the old rules that probably still don't address threads specifically in one, and the new ones that say the game state is platonic in the other? At least, some stuff on the list archive seems to imply it. Where do I find the bot syntax? ___Dan Knapp, Knight of the Random Seed______________Beep Blip Bonk_______ http://users.bergen.org/~dankna Listen: My philosophy is grounded in sheer _perversity_ at this time of night. ------------------------------ From: David Scheidt Subject: Acka: Re: Check me on this... Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:06:12 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, A.K.A. TheWiz wrote: > You are actually considering the current situation to be a thread split, > with the old rules that probably still don't address threads specifically in > one, and the new ones that say the game state is platonic in the other? At > least, some stuff on the list archive seems to imply it. I don't consider the fat acka game to exist. Others may think differently. Our game state is what I say it is^W^W^W^W^Wplatonic, yes. > > Where do I find the bot syntax? Send ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org a message with the body like this: #help It works very much like breadbox's bot did, actually. rufus ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Re: Check me on this... Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:28:27 -0400 (EDT) > You are actually considering the current situation to be a thread split, >with the old rules that probably still don't address threads specifically in >one, and the new ones that say the game state is platonic in the other? At >least, some stuff on the list archive seems to imply it. A thread split? Well, in the sense that some or all of the players of fat-Acka seem to believe that theirs is the game with true descent from the one started by Ackers, and that some or all of the players of Acka-Lite believe the same about their game, yes, it is a thread split. There is significant disagreement about the result of P4371's passage in mother Acka. It really goes well beyond a thread split, however. In the first place, the games have essentially no game-state commonalities beyond some shared players. That makes it very difficult to bridge the gap by in-game means. In the second place, both games have independant life. There are players in each who are determined to continue their own preferred game regardless of whether or not it is the true original thread. Some players continue in both games, but the number is small and dwindling. I, myself, was initially of the opinion that fat-Acka was the true thread, yet I switched to Thin-Acka because it was clear after only a few days that Thin-Acka would live -- probably at the expense of fat-Acka. With new information about the fateful proposal (P4371) coming to light, however, I was forced to re-evaluate. I am now firmly convinced that Thin-Acka is the original game. A CFJ is pending in fat-Acka's Supreme Court which addresses the question, but my understanding is that one of the judges is AWOL. This may all be moot in any case. It looks like fat-Acka is losing momentum; it may soon grind to a halt despite the best efforts of those attempting to preserve it. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: Henry Towsner Subject: Acka: Re: More soulful interactions Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:44:17 -0400 (EDT) >I create a soul named null. > >I give the soul null to else...if. I accept it. ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Proposal 73 From: ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Proposal 73 Core Proposal 1 from P49 Malenkai Due: Wed Oct 20 19:00:55 1999 Amend every rule named "Winner and still champeean" to replace every occurrance, in section II, of the text "is 1", with "is 38". ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Proposal 74 From: ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:01:07 -0400 (EDT) Proposal 74 Core Proposal 2 from P49 Malenkai Due: Wed Oct 20 19:01:05 1999 Amend the rule titled "Core and Arm" to add the following to the end of section II: " A proposal is a core proposal if and only if words to that effect appear as its first line. " ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Re: Proposal 73 From: Joseph DeVincentis Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:05:52 -0400 (EDT) ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org wrote: > > Proposal 73 > Core Proposal 1 from P49 Oops, I screwed up. Please ignore these proposals 73-74, they are incorrectly distributed. ------------------------------ Subject: Acka: Re: Proposal 56 rejected From: Joseph DeVincentis Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:17:47 -0400 (EDT) ackabot+kernel@ackanomic.org wrote: > > Proposal 56 > > Yes/No vote totals: 6-11: proposal rejected > > Yes: > K 2 (0) > two-star (0) > Dragon Mage (3) > Hubert (1) > > No: > IdiotBoy (1) > /dev/joe (0) > else...if (3) The soul-trading early in the day changed the number of votes some of these players cast but didn't change the results of P55-56. /dev/joe ------------------------------ From: Xylen Subject: Acka: Re: Proposal 56 rejected Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:28:12 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, you wrote: > The soul-trading early in the day changed the number of votes some of > these players cast but didn't change the results of P55-56. Looks like soul-trading should be handled by acka-Wall street. Is there any reason for souls being traded? I can understand if players don't have the time to vote, or if they are just seeing what will happen. I'm just curious to see if there is some sort of a way that we can make souls a true commodity that are worth something in acka. any thoughts on this? Xylen ------------------------------ From: "Tyrethali Ansrath" Subject: Acka: Re: Proposal 56 rejected Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:36:46 -0400 (EDT) >Looks like soul-trading should be handled by acka-Wall street. Is >there any reason for souls being traded? I can understand if players >don't have the time to vote, or if they are just seeing what will >happen. I'm just curious to see if there is some sort of a way that we >can make souls a true commodity that are worth something in acka. any >thoughts on this? > >Xylen You mean avoiding the obivous 'one vote per soul' value? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Xylen Subject: Acka: Yet another wandering soul Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:30:30 -0400 (EDT) In recognition of the vast soul collection of else...if, I give the soul Xylen to /dev/joe to do with as e pleases. Xylen ------------------------------ End of acka Digest V1 #26 *************************