Subject: acka-research Digest V4 #152
From: [email-masked]
To: acka-research digest users <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:00:05 -0400 (EDT)

acka-research Digest	Saturday, August 21 1999	Volume: 04  Issue: 152

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From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 4304 accepted
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 04:16:58 -0400 (EDT)

I call for an election for this position.

>  Let there be an optional political office called the Publicist with a
>  minimum term of office of one month.
> 

Let the propaganda flow forth

K 2

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From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Commission d'Arts - (Speaker)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 04:17:30 -0400 (EDT)

Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote:
> 
> I go to the vault of the book.
> I go home.
> 
> While I'm writing a public message, let me ask this:
> 
> what are we waiting on for a determination of the Commission d'Arts?  Are
> we waiting on a resolution of the Presidency?

IIRC the selection of players for this is the Speakers responsibility -
not knowing who the president is will just mean that a non-member is
cc'ed in on the nominee determining debate.

While I'm here - everyone one should feel free to bring to the attention
of the Commission any suitable candidates.

K 2

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From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure Found!
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 04:17:35 -0400 (EDT)

Matt Miller wrote:
> 
> As promised, my treasure consisting of the SausageMobile has been found.
> Unfortunately, I have found it myself.  I pay whatever fee is necessary
> for such nonsense.

The goose retruns!!

All hail the goose.

K 2
until 6/9/99 anyway

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From: K 2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 727 (FALSE)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:02:24 -0400 (EDT)

K 2 wrote:
> 
> Henry Towsner wrote:
> 
> > form, am an entity.  By rule 7, an entity may not be manipulated in a
> > significant way without express permission from the rules.  It is,
> > therefore, illegal and impossible for EAP to register as a player of Agora
> > (and I urge a member of Agora to file a case to this effect).

I imagine the Agoran rules state it was perfectly legal :-)

K 2

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From: Michael Slone <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 727 (FALSE)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT)

Henry Towsner wrote (or quoted?):
> > > form, am an entity.  By rule 7, an entity may not be manipulated in a
> > > significant way without express permission from the rules.  

Do the rules allow for air to enter the lungs of human entities?

> > >                                                             It is,
> > > therefore, illegal and impossible for EAP to register as a player of Agora
> > > (and I urge a member of Agora to file a case to this effect).

K 2 wrote:
> I imagine the Agoran rules state it was perfectly legal :-)

From the perspective of Agora, it was perfectly legal.  But the Ackan Rules do
not (I would think) necessarily have to care what the Agora Rules think.

--
Michael (harvel) Slone - UCB#0 - vir.fclib.org/$1/ - 09:36:21 EDT - Sat, 7549 DH
No one... would send one a bunch of hippopotami as a token of regard.
		-- Charles Fort

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From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 727 (FALSE)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT)

On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Michael Slone wrote:

> Henry Towsner wrote (or quoted?):
> > > > form, am an entity.  By rule 7, an entity may not be manipulated in a
> > > > significant way without express permission from the rules.  
> 
> Do the rules allow for air to enter the lungs of human entities?

Actually, the rules require it.  Manipulating an entity by letting it
asphyxiate would probably be too much.  However, the definition of
"significant" manipulation according to common wisdom appears to be "would
have a material impact on the game state".  That's where there's a
difference between breathing and joining Agora (at least under the rules
as they were at the time).

Yours,
Slakko
-- 
Duncan C. "Slakko" Richer - http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/
Queens' College Cambridge, 2nd Year Ph.D. (Pure Maths) - Graph Theory
My stream of consciousness has dried up.  Time to try irrigation.

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From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 4325 accepted
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:32:08 -0400 (EDT)

> 	A Player may change eir state as a public action by announcing the new
player
> state, provided e has not changed eir state as a public action during the
past
> 3 days, and provided e follows all other restrictions placed on eir
ability to
> change states. When a player voluntarily ceases to be Vacationing if e
did not
> specify a new player state, e becomes Active. A player may never voluntarily
> change eir state to Non-Player, but may have eir state changed to Non-Player
> through the action of the rules. Whenever a player's state or level is
> changed, the appropriate following section applies to them
> 
> 	IV. Activity Levels
> 	All Players are either Voting or Non-Voting.  The activity level is latent
> while the player is Inactive, however when the player becomes Active
again eir
> Voting/Non-Voting status is preserved.

No actual way is specified to change activity levels, so it looks like
everyone's activity level is stuck where it is (unless I missed something,
which is quite possible).

-- Emperor Ai! Pedrito! B(Scam)
DeeJay * Dungeon Master * Herald * Rule-Harfer
 Crazy French-Scotsman * Student (Scamology)

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From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 4325 accepted
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:15:35 -0400 (EDT)

On Sat, 21 Aug 1999 [email-masked] wrote:

> Proposal 4325
> 
> Subcommittee vote for: 160   against:0
> Subcommittee Acceptance Index: 160.0
> Passed subcommittee
> Total vote for: 666   Total vote against:-60

Where's the Scaremonger?!

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From: Michael Slone <[email-masked]>
Subject: DIS: Ackan and Agoran law (fwd)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:36:27 -0400 (EDT)

[Steve Gardner wrote:]

Could someone please forward this post to the Ackanomic list?

[Okay, done.  --harvel]

The recent Ackan Judgement that the Player known in Ackanomic as Emperor
Ai! Perdito! (henceforth EAP) could not, according to Ackan law,
register as a Player of Agora raises some interesting issues.

I'm not qualified to comment on Ackan law, so I'll just take the
judgement as a given and go from there.

In his Judgement, Studge urged an Agoran Player to file a CFJ to the
same effect as his Judgement. From the tenor of this comment, it appears
that Studge believes that since Ackan law prevents EAP from registering
as an Agoran Player, that Agora is obliged to recognise this fact also.

I think such a belief is mistaken. Nothing in Agoran law prevented EAP
from registering as a Player of Agora, and it goes without saying that
Agora is not obliged to respect any Rules but its own, unless and until
its own Rules say otherwise, which they don't currently do. Hence, as
far as Agora is concerned, EAP is, or at least was, registered as an
Agoran. (I don't know if e still is - I'm not following that closely.)

By the same token, of course, as far as Ackanomic is concerned, EAP is
not registered as a Player of Agora. That was my starting premise.

Can this contradictory state of affairs be sustained? Probably it can,
for a while anyway. I'm reminded of the situation which arose in Britain
in the years after the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, during which
Britain continued to recognize only existence of Imperial Tsarist
Russia, and not the Soviet Union. Several British judges of this period
asserted that, whatever the reality of the political situation in Russia
might be, it remained true that according British law, the Soviet Union
did not, in fact, exist.

I tend to see the current situation vis a vis Ackanomic in a similar
light. According to Ackan law, EAP is not registered in Agora Nomic. I'm
not sure what they might make of the fact that EAP might make Proposals,
or vote, or deliver Judgements, or hold Office in Agora. If they are
happy to live with a schizophrenia between Ackan legal reality and the
facts on the ground, I can't see any legal or logical reason compelling
them to recognize those facts - only pragmatic reasons.

Insofar as EAP is clearly capable of partaking in Agora as a Player if e
wishes to do so, the (supra-legal) reality is that e can be a Player of
Agora. My own view is that, as a matter of good praxis, it's not a good
idea for a legal system to assert the truth of propositions clearly at
variance with reality.

I don't mean by this that it's not a good idea for Ackanomic to prohibit
its Players from joining other Nomics. There might be very sound reasons
of policy for doing so. But if they wish to avoid legal schizophrenia,
the construal of this prohibition should recognize that Ackan law cannot
really prevent a person from doing as e wishes to do, and simply impose
appropriate sanctions against Ackan Players who choose to violate Ackan
laws.

-- 

Steve Gardner                     |   Appearances to the contrary,
Dept. of Philosophy, Monash Uni.  |  things are just what they seem.
[email-masked]    |

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End of acka-research Digest V4 #152
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