Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #206
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest      Monday, August 31 1998      Volume 03 : Number 206

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3505

K 2, are you trying to get on my nerves?

Anyway, I wish to note that Proposals 3505, 3506, 3507, and 3509 are
not foolish, despite their claims, as their original counterpart
proposals were accepted.

breadbox

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:19:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3502

> Proposal 3502
> Nameless Thing #-1
> Attila the Pun (Micah Smukler)
> 
> [...]
> 
> Replace subsection VIb of rule 250 with "b) All of eir tradeable
> entities are transferred to the treasury; all remaining entites
> owned be em are destroyed."
> 
> {{[Why should the Treasury own pointy ears?]}}

This is bad. We have had many entities that are nontradeable but can
change ownership (through applications of the rules) that should not
be destroyed willfully. The Machine that goes *ping* is one such
example.

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:24:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3510

> Proposal 3510
> Training Regime fix
> JT (JT Traub)
> 
> This is a modest proposal.
> In rule 1390.6, replace 23 with 16.  {{[this puts the value back in
> line]}}
> Renumber rule 1390.6 so that it is a member of the Otzma Card Rule Suite.

Urgh. I'm not actually sure that this works. The rule that governs
automatic numbering of Rule Suite members only applies when a rule is
being created. In fact, this *might* actually require the OiCoRT to
randomly select a sub rule number - of which, of course, there are an
infinite number of possibilities. (Actually, though, I imagine it
would just be considered an ambiguous change and thus ignored, as per
Rule 104.)

breadbox

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:32:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Proposals galore

I'd just like to comment that I'll be voting BAA! on all 30+ (!)
proposals that just arrived in my mailbox. Not because they're boring,
but because THERE'S FRIGGIN' 30 OF THEM! I just don't have time for
reading *that* many proposals. Thank you. And now back to T.J. Hooker.

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:38:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3511

> Proposal 3511
> My First Proposal - Start With A Bang
> Studge (Tom Mueller)
> 
> [...]
> 
> And if you were wondering, the {{[ stuff ]}} format is unnecessary
> because the actual proposal isn’t becoming a rule and that format only
> applies to actual rule text.

Well, almost. To be precise, only the curly braces are unnecessary.
Every sentence can be a potential change to the game state if it's not
quoted text or safely ensconced in notes brackets.

I haven't read the content of your proposal yet, so it may well be
that every one of your "explanatory" sentences would be ambiguous
and/or meaningless when read as a change to the game state (see Rule
104), but it would be a lot cleaner to use the brackets anyway. (It
would probably also involve my having to make fewer judgement calls as
Rule-Harfer.)

> Amend Rule 1031/0 (Grey Council) by adding to the beginning:
> \223
> Section 1 Council Formation
> \223
> and adding to the end:
> \223
> Section 2 Council Duties

I presume from the context that the above special characters appear
(or did, anyway) as "handed" quote marks on your machine? In any case,
they don't appear the same for everyone, so they should be avoided. I
am led to understand that some Microsoft email program uses these
non-ASCII characters by default (typical), so you may need to
explicitly turn these off in your Ackanomic mail (at least when
composing official documents like proposals). If someone here can
supply me with simple directions for how a MS-user can go about
suppressing this misfeature, I might add this information to the
Postmaster's etiquette page, since it seems to be a common problem
lately.

breadbox

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:54:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3520

> Proposal 3520
> Scarlet A
> Weishaupt (Gabriel Drummond-Cole)
> 
> [...]
> 
> "On the breast of her gown, in fine red cloth surrounded with an elaborate
> embroidery and fantastic flourishes of gold thread, appeared the laetter
> 'A.'"[Nathaniel Hawthorne, end of The Scarlet Letter]
> 
> {{If Nathaniel Hawthorne is not on the Literature List, add him to it
> before evaluating whether this rule is literature}}

This last bit doesn't work. Scoring on a proposal explicitly takes
place *before* its changes are put into effect, making this a
retroactive effect, which is prohibited by Rules 103 and 104.

breadbox

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:05:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Proposals galore

> I'd just like to comment that I'll be voting BAA! on all 30+ (!)
> proposals that just arrived in my mailbox.

Now, now, don't exaggerate. 23 is all.

Anyway, because you're new, I won't Hose you this time. But be careful
in the future....

breadbox
Postmaster

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:44:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Re: Proposals galore

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > I'd just like to comment that I'll be voting BAA! on all 30+ (!)
> > proposals that just arrived in my mailbox.
>
> Now, now, don't exaggerate. 23 is all.
>
> Anyway, because you're new, I won't Hose you this time. But be
> careful in the future....

Damn! And I thought I'd get a hosing out of this. Some people, sheesh!

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"Santa Claus doesn't believe in you, either."

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3510

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Proposal 3510
> > Training Regime fix
> > JT (JT Traub)
> > 
> > This is a modest proposal.
> > In rule 1390.6, replace 23 with 16.  {{[this puts the value back in
> > line]}}
> > Renumber rule 1390.6 so that it is a member of the Otzma Card Rule Suite.
> 
> Urgh. I'm not actually sure that this works. The rule that governs
> automatic numbering of Rule Suite members only applies when a rule is
> being created. In fact, this *might* actually require the OiCoRT to
> randomly select a sub rule number - of which, of course, there are an
> infinite number of possibilities. (Actually, though, I imagine it
> would just be considered an ambiguous change and thus ignored, as per
> Rule 104.)

I think this could be quite interesting.  If it is interepreted as an
infinite number of possibilities, then JT himself would be required to
randomly choose one, from all of them, with equal probability.  E could
not do this, hence, due to eir own proposal, e would be committing the
Crime of Negligence.
- -- 
Duncan C. "ironic twists ya us" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:10:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3502

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:
>SEMISCAMMY
>If the Registrar acknowledges a legal name change, or after three
>days have passed if the Registrar neither acknowledges the change
>nor objects to it(andthe new name complies with all applicable rules),
>then the name change is accepted and occurs, at which time the player
>in question shall pay the Standard Harfer Fee.
>SEMISCAMMY
>
>SOMEWHATSAFER
>If the Registrar acknowledges a legal name change, or after three
>days have passed if the Registrar (or, in the case of an attempt by
>the Registrar to change eir name, neither the President nor any
>Senator) neither acknowledges the change nor objects to it (and the
>new name complies with all applicable rules), then the name change is
>accepted and occurs, at which time the player in question shall pay
>the Standard Harfer Fee.
>SOMEWHATSAFER

I know I had done this in the past and that change was accepted.  Is it
not currently reflected in the rules?

(apparently it is not).

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:20:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3523

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:
>Proposal 3523
>Backwards hour for 50 minutes each day...
>Weishaupt (Gabriel Drummond-Cole)
>
>@ 00:10 -- Names reverse, man!
>&
>Names reverse, man! (@ 01:00)

Sheesh, go ahead and make more work for me as Registrar :/
Needless to say, I will be voting against this proposal.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:06:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3523

> On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:
> >Proposal 3523
> >Backwards hour for 50 minutes each day...
> >Weishaupt (Gabriel Drummond-Cole)
> >
> >@ 00:10 -- Names reverse, man!
> >&
> >Names reverse, man! (@ 01:00)
> 
> Sheesh, go ahead and make more work for me as Registrar :/
> Needless to say, I will be voting against this proposal.

Not just you -- all the names of every named entity in Ackanomia reverse,
since it doesn't say anything about player names.  Anybody who names anything
during the backwards hour each day will end up with that thing named
backwards of the name they chose about 96% of the time.  Not to mention
the horrors if proposal results should be released during the witching
hour. :-{  Do we get an extra reversal once a year at the Daylight savings
time when we fall back?  That could be nasty.

This made me think of a particular lyric, which I found on the handy
lyrics server.  I know, it wouldn't be quite *that* bad. :-)

Darkness falls across the land
The midnight hour is close at hand
Creatures crawl in search of blood
To terrorize y'all's neighborhood
And whosoever shall be found
Without the soul for getting down
Must stand and face the hounds of hell
And rot inside a corpse's shell
The foulest stench is in the air
The funk of forty thousand years
And grizzly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom
And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of... The Thriller!!!

  from "Thriller" by Michael Jackson, but spoken by Vincent Price in the song

/dev/joe

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:12:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabe Drummond-Cole <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3520

At 09:54 AM 8/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>> Proposal 3520
>> Scarlet A
>> Weishaupt (Gabriel Drummond-Cole)
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>> "On the breast of her gown, in fine red cloth surrounded with an elaborate
>> embroidery and fantastic flourishes of gold thread, appeared the laetter
>> 'A.'"[Nathaniel Hawthorne, end of The Scarlet Letter]
>> 
>> {{If Nathaniel Hawthorne is not on the Literature List, add him to it
>> before evaluating whether this rule is literature}}
>
>This last bit doesn't work. Scoring on a proposal explicitly takes
>place *before* its changes are put into effect, making this a
>retroactive effect, which is prohibited by Rules 103 and 104.
>
>breadbox
>
well, then i won't get the points; i don't mind... i misspelled letter,
anyways

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 12:59:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3515

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 3515
> Screwing Around With Caste Sizes
> Attila the Pun (Micah Smukler)
> 
> Amend Rule 1030 ("Castes") by appending to it the following BEANBAG-delimited
> text:
> 
> BEANBAG
> In addition, if a player who is not a member of the Gray Council becomes
> the Thrall of another player, and there are more than three members of
> eir Caste, that player changes eir Caste to that of eir Overlord.
> BEANBAG
> 

This would give the Grey ouncil members an unusual amount of power,
considering that they are elected.  They wouldn't have to worry about
obeying any particular constituency, since it would be constantly
changing.  And the non-Council members would probably lose interest in
what faction they were in, because they would have so little control over
it. So the only people with any reason to care about the Council and
Castes would be the Council members. In sum, I think this is a bad idea.

Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:07:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3515

nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 3515
> Screwing Around With Caste Sizes
> Attila the Pun (Micah Smukler)
>
> Amend Rule 1030 ("Castes") by appending to it the following BEANBAG-delimited
> text:
>
> BEANBAG
> In addition, if a player who is not a member of the Gray Council becomes
> the Thrall of another player, and there are more than three members of
> eir Caste, that player changes eir Caste to that of eir Overlord.
> BEANBAG

Regardless of any other problems this may have it would make tracking castes
(whose responsibility is that at the moment BTW?) much more difficult since they
would also effectively have to track thralls.

Mr Tambo.

- --
Tom Walmsley [email-masked]
http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html
AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739
Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo.

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End of acka-research-digest V3 #206
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