Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #190
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest      Sunday, August 16 1998      Volume 03 : Number 190

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 03:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Matt Miller wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > > >This could be really hard to calculate unless someone wants to run all of
> > > >the proposals to date through a word counting program?
> > > 	I'm hopeing there either is a program that can do this, or that
> > > someone could throw it together.  It doesn't seem too complicated.
> > 
> > It could probably done by a two-line Perl program.  :-)
> > 
> 
> HERESY!  1 line.
> IB

If you're on a UNIX machine you can do it with two letters "wc". 

I bet no one can top *that*!

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"This sentence contains ten words, eighteen syllables and
sixty-four letters."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:15:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

Is this a takeover attempt by the Orange Menace?
LETTER PRODUCTS :)

Niccolo Flychuck

On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Towsner wrote:

> 	The new currency isn't such a big idea.  We could use Acka cents to
> make the scaling work.  Words would just be normal tradeable objects, and
> the owner would be responsible for tracking usage.  I don't think this
> would be anymore work for the financier than any other tradeable object.
> K2 or anyone else who's been financier, am I right?  As for checking words,
> I was envisioning a simple cgi script on the website where you type a word
> into a form, click a button, and it says how many times the word is used.
> This is not a difficult program.  breadbox, would you object to putting
> such a program on your website to keep it together with the proposal
> archives?  In response to what Slakko said, it could just be changed so
> that you pay whenever a proposal creates a rule containing the word.
> 
> - --
> - -Henry Towsner
> 
> 	<[email-masked]>
> 
> 	Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and
> enjoy it.
> 		-Logan Pearsall Smith
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:57:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (L'homme a tete de choux)
Subject: acka: proposal rfc

I haven't really started to formulate this into a substanial proposal yet, but
here's an idea that I've been considering:

1. Ackans have 'Lives' (these would be ownable, and probably tradeable,
entities). Initially, I think that we should follow the cat model and start
with nine lives.

2. Things like being burnt for heresy or losing a duel would cost a life. Any
number of things could cost you a life. If you run out of lives, you end up in
Limbo ('Somewhere Else').

3. There would be ways and means to acquire extra lives (reaching a certain
number of points, winning a cycle...)

4. Create a Functional Office of Secretary to the Grim Reaper -- this officer would
be responsible for keeping track of how many lives players have, signing
death certificates, and selling new lives.

There are all sorts of applications of the principle -- limited only by the
imagination -- but I would propose first to introduce the basic concept, then
let it develop.

Well?

Ethelred

 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:13:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a takeover attempt by the Orange Menace?
> LETTER PRODUCTS :)
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 
> 

Gack!  How could I have been so blind!  Quickly, Ackazens!  Man the
parapets, prepare the catapaults, we shall drive them into the sea!

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:21:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

>If you're on a UNIX machine you can do it with two letters "wc". 
>
>I bet no one can top *that*!

Well, I could do it by counting which requires a zero line program. It
might take a while but...

MTM.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:23:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "else...if" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another Idea

>Is this a takeover attempt by the Orange Menace?
>LETTER PRODUCTS :)
   On the contrary, this merely proves once again how superior we are.
 They could only think in terms of letters, while we trade entire words.
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:41:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> >If you're on a UNIX machine you can do it with two letters "wc". 
> >
> >I bet no one can top *that*!
> 
> Well, I could do it by counting which requires a zero line program. It
> might take a while but...
> 
> MTM.

Touche! I see my mentor is to be reckoned with. 

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"This sentence contains ten words, eighteen syllables and
sixty-four letters."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:53:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

>If you're on a UNIX machine you can do it with two letters "wc". 

>I bet no one can top *that*!

Neither can "wc".  AFAIK it doesn't count the occurrences of individual
words, but tosses all words into one big pot and counts them indiscriminately.
Which wouldn't be much use if we wanted to find out how many times the
word "Chartreuse" occurs in the Rules.

Not that I'm trying to bash Unix or anything--I love it myself--but don't
make outlandish claims for it!  I'm sure you'd have to do "wc -n chartreuse"
or something.  :-)

- --
- --Alfvaen (Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/)
Current Album--Evangeline
Current Book--Chinua Achebe:Things Fall Apart
Remember me?  I'm the one who never made any impression on you.  --Brilliant

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:08:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bernard El-Hagin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> 
> >If you're on a UNIX machine you can do it with two letters "wc". 
> 
> >I bet no one can top *that*!
> 
> Neither can "wc".  AFAIK it doesn't count the occurrences of individual
> words, but tosses all words into one big pot and counts them indiscriminately.
> Which wouldn't be much use if we wanted to find out how many times the
> word "Chartreuse" occurs in the Rules.
> 
> Not that I'm trying to bash Unix or anything--I love it myself--but don't
> make outlandish claims for it!  I'm sure you'd have to do "wc -n chartreuse"
> or something.  :-)

Picky, picky! :-) Of course you have to give the command a paramater.
What I meant was that a command counting words already exists and it's
two letters long. 

Geez, some people...! :-)

Cheers,
Rig R. Mortis

"This sentence contains ten words, eighteen syllables and
sixty-four letters."

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:25:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

> Neither can "wc".  AFAIK it doesn't count the occurrences of
> individual words, but tosses all words into one big pot and counts
> them indiscriminately.  Which wouldn't be much use if we wanted to
> find out how many times the word "Chartreuse" occurs in the Rules.
> 
> Not that I'm trying to bash Unix or anything--I love it myself--but
> don't make outlandish claims for it!  I'm sure you'd have to do
> "wc -n chartreuse" or something.  :-)

The wc that comes with the GNU textutils package has no such feature.
To the best of my knowledge there is no standard Unix program that
does this ... which is why, several months ago, I wrote a two-line
Perl program to do just that:

$_=lc join"",<>;tr/a-z'/ /c;for(split){++$w{$_}}
for(sort{$w{$b}<=>$w{$a}or$a cmp$b}keys%w){printf"%-20s: $w{$_}\n",$_}

This was requested by a friend who wanted to identify "overused" words
in her writing, so the table is sorted by frequency. Thus, you could
cram it down farther by removing the sorting:

$_=lc join"",<>;tr/a-z'/ /c;for(split){++$w{$_}}for(keys%w){print"$_:$w{$_}\n"}

79 characters: One line! Hooray!

(I still don't like the original idea, though.)

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:38:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Another idea

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> The wc that comes with the GNU textutils package has no such feature.
> To the best of my knowledge there is no standard Unix program that
> does this ... which is why, several months ago, I wrote a two-line
> Perl program to do just that:

Everybody has written one of these at some point.  Why no one has ever
distributed one is beyond me.

> (I still don't like the original idea, though.)

Harfy, but dumb.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:54:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "else...if" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: The extra-nomic EN:

  We already have the {nomic name} syntax for marking things from
other nomics.  Wouldn't it make more sense to intergrate with that?
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:13:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3366 accepted

>> Proposal 3366 - Wed 05 Aug 1998 11:09 EDT
>> Ending the Tyranny
>> Slakko (Duncan Richer)
>> 
>> This is a Modest Proposal.
>> 
>> Amend Rule 611, "Le Grand Fromage", by replacing the text
>> 
>> "A player receives a brie if no CFCJ called against em has returned a final
>> verdict of TRUE in the last two months. At the instant a verdict of TRUE on
>> a CFCJ against a player can no longer be legally appealed, any brie they
>> may have is destroyed. "
>> 
>> with the following FIGHT-delimited text:
>> 
>> "A player receives a brie when they win a Duel. If a player owns a brie
>> when they lose a Duel, that brie is destroyed."

Oh dear. This may be a first ... I can't remember ever having a
proposal pass which tried to insert nonexistent text.

Does this delete the original paragraph? I think it does.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:39:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3367 rejected

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Results of Proposal 3367
> 
> 21/25 votes: Quorum achieved
> 10/19 YES votes: Proposal rejected
> 
> > Proposal 3367 - Wed 05 Aug 1998 11:10 EDT
> > An End To Tyranny
> > Slakko (Duncan Richer)

Does anyone see any ways that this could be made more palatable to people
without completely eliminating its spirit?  

I remember Vynd (on the occasion of his recent CFCJ conviction) stating
that dealing with Crime was not fun.  My goal with this system was to
eliminate the problems that CFCJ brings in terms of imprisonments, and big
penalties, by making most (currently all) crimes punishable only by very
minor penalties.  Future modifications could enable bigger penalties for
Felonies (although if this proposal passed nothing would have been defined
as a Felony).

> > 
> > Create a new Rule, numbered 705, entitled "A Kinder, Gentler System", with
> > the following SLAP-delimited text:
> > 
> > SLAP
> > Crimes fall into two categories: Whiffles and Felonies. If it is not
> > explicitly specified which category a Crime falls into, it is a Whiffle.
> > 
> > It is a privilege of a Justice to issue Whiffle Notices (WN). No player may
> > issue more than one WN in any one Calendar week. A Whiffle Notice contains
> > the following items:
> > 
> > (1) its number, which must be an integer distinct from those used in all
> > previous Whiffle Notices.
> > (2) the name of a player who committed a Whiffle in the last week (this
> > player may be referred to as the transgressor).
> > (3) the Whiffle they committed.
> > (4) the punishment for committing that Whiffle.
> > 
> > Issuing a document which purports to be a WN, but does not satisfy the
> > above conditions, is the Whiffle of Whiffling.
> > 
> > A punishment is exactly one of the following:
> > (1) A public apology of between 1 and 10 lines, to be performed by the
> > transgressor within 3 days of the issuance of the WN.
> > (2) An amount of money between A$1 and A$25, to be transferred from the
> > transgressor to the Treasury.
> > (3) A deduction of between 0 and 10 points from the score of the
> > transgressor.
> > 
> > If a punishment of types (2) or (3) is specified, the transfer or point
> > loss takes place at the time of issuance of the WN.
> > 
> > It is good form to impeach Justices who are abusing their privilege of
> > issuing Whiffle Notices.
> > SLAP
> > 
> > Amend Rule 709, "Gaol", by replacing the text "CFJ or CFCJ" in Section 10
> > with "CFJ", and by removing Section 2, then renumbering all higher-numbered
> > sections to eliminate the gap thereby produced.
> > 
> > Repeal Rule 710, "Criminal Justice".
> > Repeal Rule 711, "Appeal for Pardon".
> 
Yours,
Slakko
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:40:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3360 accepted

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

>Results of Proposal 3360
>
>21/25 votes: Quorum achieved
>13/21 YES votes: Proposal accepted
>
>> Proposal 3360 - Wed 05 Aug 1998 11:02 EDT
>> Grease is the Word
>> Brie Clump (Tom Walmsley)

Grrr.. this means war Tom.. Honest :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:06:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3426

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 3426
> Bonehead Maneuver

> The Grey Council is an Office with up to nine seats. It is also a
> Unique Organization.

We are Grey.  We stand between the candle and the star.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Ackanomic - Web-Harfer, Clerk of the Court, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:06:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3423

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> 
> Proposal 3423
> Basic needs
> J. M. Bear (Frank Schmidt)
> 
> [Is the following done automatically?]

No, it isn't.  

> Also change the references to these rules, so that they
> now point to the new rule number instead of the old one
> for each of the three rules above.
> 
I am not sure this works the way it is supposed to.  If it does, I suspect
breadbox will not be happy about it. 

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:12:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "else...if" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3434

>Proposal 3434
>Four
>K 2 (Kelly Kelly)
>
>This is a Modest Proposal.
>Gimme Shelter (Rule 594.12)

  I sense a large donation to Twits coming up...
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:16:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3432

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

>Proposal 3432
>Two
>K 2 (Kelly Kelly)
>
>This is a Modest Proposal.
>Jukkasjarvi Mind Control Laser (Rule 594.8)

Methings you are missing a word from this and the other proposals of this
bunch eh?  Mainly the word 'repeal'?

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:54:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3361 accepted

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:
> If an Otzma Card is named, then that Otzma Card is converted to another
> Otzma Card of a type determined by the RuneMaker by the Deterministic
> Method. If the instance limits for the new type of Otzma Card would be
> violated by its creation, or it would be illegal for that player to own
> the new Otzma Card for some reason, then the original Otzma Card is
> destroyed instead.

Ya know? I just noticed this but with the wording above (most specifically
Deterministic), the RuneMaker could destroy the person's Otzma Card in all
cases, just by determining it to have changed into the type of say 'Go
Fish' (which is already at its instance limits).

Would the CSR be so kind as to change the word Deterministic above into
Probabalistic?  This would be consistant with the concept of 'Roulette
Wheel' as well.

(If the CSR will not, I will propose to make this fix, but it seems minor
enough that a CSR should suffice)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:03:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3370 rejected

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Results of Proposal 3370
> 
> 21/25 votes: Quorum achieved
> 11/21 YES votes: Proposal rejected
> 
> 
> > Proposal 3370 - Wed 05 Aug 1998 11:13 EDT
> > Clean Out Your Desks, Please
> > Slakko (Duncan Richer)
> > 
> > [We have an awful lot of Offices in this game. The current average is more
> > than 1 per player. Some of these have very small roles, and are not really
> > used that much these days. Such offices are to be repealed in this
> > proposal.]
> > 
> > Repeal Rule 712, "Gaoler".
> > 
> > Amend Rule 716, "Patent Infringement" to read as delimited by FASTTRACK
> > below:

I only got around to voting on this a few days ago, so I didn't say
anything then.  But I would have voted for this proposal, if not for this:

> > Repeal Rule 420, "Historian".
> > [breadbox has done a great job as the main historian, but I think that the
> > need for this as a separate office is questionable.]
> 

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 14:11:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3367 rejected

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, nomicbot wrote:
> 
> > Results of Proposal 3367
> > 
> > 21/25 votes: Quorum achieved
> > 10/19 YES votes: Proposal rejected
> > 
> > > Proposal 3367 - Wed 05 Aug 1998 11:10 EDT
> > > An End To Tyranny
> > > Slakko (Duncan Richer)
> 
> Does anyone see any ways that this could be made more palatable to people
> without completely eliminating its spirit?  
> 
> I remember Vynd (on the occasion of his recent CFCJ conviction) stating
> that dealing with Crime was not fun.  My goal with this system was to
> eliminate the problems that CFCJ brings in terms of imprisonments, and big
> penalties, by making most (currently all) crimes punishable only by very
> minor penalties.  Future modifications could enable bigger penalties for
> Felonies (although if this proposal passed nothing would have been defined
> as a Felony).
> 

Well, I just didn't much care for the implementation, personally.  I think
CFCJs are an appropriate method for dealing with Crime.  For the most
part, I don't even have any problems with the penalties.  It was the
attempts made by several player, including myself, to make Crime "harfy,"
and/or to encourage prosecution that I ended up deciding was a bad idea.  

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Walmsley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

># Player: Mr. Tambourine Man
># Ackanomicon Determination
># 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies
>     20

I'm sure this is a conspiracy. How come I get vile prophecies *every*
*single* *time*?

MTM, bemused.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:46:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

>># Player: Mr. Tambourine Man
>># Ackanomicon Determination
>># 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies
>>     20
>
>I'm sure this is a conspiracy. How come I get vile prophecies *every*
>*single* *time*?

Because the dice server KNOWS you are making extra work for it? :)

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:38:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3368 rejected

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> As I waddle through the current batch I note that this proposal had a big
> turnout. A larger number of yes+no votes than the other proposals.
> Although I am dissapointed that it failed - I consider it successful in
> the sense that it made people vote!
> 
> Niccolo Flychuck
> 

Indeed.  I was also impressed by the turnout for the Church repeal
proposal. :)

Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination

On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> ># Player: Mr. Tambourine Man
> ># Ackanomicon Determination
> ># 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies
> >     20
> 
> I'm sure this is a conspiracy. How come I get vile prophecies *every*
> *single* *time*?
> 
> MTM, bemused.
> 

Well, that would take some time to explain, but believe me, it is not
unexpected.

Vynd, author

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:56:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3433

>Proposal 3433
>Three
>K 2 (Kelly Kelly)

>This is a Modest Proposal.
>Bonus Vote Add-On (Rule 594.11)

"A verb, sir, we need a verb!"  --Doonesbury

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/)
Current Album--Jon & Vangelis:Page of Life
Current Book--Chinua Achebe:Things Fall Apart
Got my tie caught in a fax machine--suddenly I was in LA

------------------------------

End of acka-research-digest V3 #190
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