Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #168
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest      Thursday, July 30 1998      Volume 03 : Number 168

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3311 accepted

Proposal 3311 had two problems. First, the minor one:

> Amend Rule 835 Locations in the following QUADRANGLE delimited manner.
> 
> [...]
> 
> In section 7a), replace "deep in the wilds" with deep in The Wilds of
> Ackanomic.

The quoted text does not appear anywhere in section 7a.

> Create a new Rule, numbered 843, with the title Maps, and the following
> YIPPE delimted text:

Rule 843 already exists. Thus, the new rule was given the number
1390.4 instead.

Finally, note that some self-deleting text (in Rule 423) has triggered
a Really Bad Earthquake. Enjoy.

breadbox

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:22:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chaos Reigns

Brian Raiter wrote:

> Some notes on the latest batch of proposals. (No sooner does our able
> Speaker resign than everything goes haywire!)
>
> Proposals 3321 and 3329 are, unfortunately, not actually modest. A

?I thought CFJ 560 resolved that "This is a Modest Proposal" wasn't
required as the first line.

> reminder: the nomicbot's line-continuting character is a *backwards*
> slash. Sorry about that.

v :\x :/

> Also, I have to question whether Proposal 3331 is in fact Literature.

Rule 210:[To be considered a piece of literature]It must contain one of
the following:...
(iii) a phrase that is not found in any other piece of literature.

So is literature:
- --
Some special proposals are literature.
ie a proposal with quoted material
- --
or:
- --
[the lit list is...] list of sources that can be quoted as Literature
ie Works listed on the lit list.
- --

certainly the phrase "That way, everyone's happy." can't be found in the
proposal archive (the closest I could find was in P759 - everyone is
happy)....

>
>
> breadbox

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:27:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3315 accepted

>> Proposal 3315 - Wed 22 Jul 1998 13:50 EDT
>> Minor Fictionary Changes
>> Mr. Tambourine Man (Tom Walmsley)
>> 
>> This is a modest proposal.
>> 
>> Modify rule 1250.10 by replacing:
>> 
>> "Players on vacation are replaced by bots who perform the default actions
>> in their stead (but the players receive all scoring as a result of the
>> bot's play). A player going on vacation may have a volunteer play in their
>> place if they can find such a person, however."

This text appears nowhere in Rule 1250.10, so this part of the
proposal has no effect. (The second part works, however, so the
proposal is not null.)

breadbox

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:33:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3317 accepted

> Results of Proposal 3317
> 
> 14/22 votes: Quorum achieved
> 12/15 YES votes: Proposal accepted

[...]
 
> > Proposal 3317 - Wed 22 Jul 1998 13:56 EDT
> > Son I am able though you scare me / Watch beloved / Watch me scare you
though / Able am I son
> > rufus (David Scheidt)
> > 
> > create a rule numbered 432, with following CHICKEN_LITTLE-delimited
text.
> > 
> > CHICKEN_LITTLE
> > The Office of Scaremonger is an optional, functional office. The duties
of
> > Scaremonger are to promote panic and forment fear. They should take
every
> > opportunity to point out the crashing of the game, officers failing to
> > perform their duties, and the End of the World. If the Scaremonger
fails to
> > do this, another player may call a Test of the Emergency Broadcast
System.
> > 
> > A test of the Emergency Broadcast System is a loud tone. It is also a
> > hearing, and player who called the Test of The Emergency Broadcast
System
> > is the Hearing Harfer. The possible votes in this hearing are "The sky
is
> > falling!" and "It is only a little hailstorm." If the verdict is "The
sky
> > is falling!", the Scaremonger is removed from office, and the Hearing
> > Harfer is installed as Scaremonger.
> > 
> > {{ MTM is appointed Scaremonger }}
> > CHICKEN_LITTLE

This passed? I can't believe this passed!!! The game is in a sorry state
indeed if proposals like this are passing. This antivoting thing will be an
end to us all I tell you. And if it wasn't antivoting... well... respected
officers voting for this sort of thing can't be good, can it? Mark my
words, the game will have crashed within weeks if we carry on with this
sort of behaviour!!

Brie Clump, Scaremonger (probably)

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 09:51:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chaos Reigns

>> Proposals 3321 and 3329 are, unfortunately, not actually modest. A
> 
> ?I thought CFJ 560 resolved that "This is a Modest Proposal" wasn't
> required as the first line.

Hm. CFJ 560 rules that bracketed text could precede furniture. I don't
know if that automatically extends to these cases. *sigh*. Looks like
it's time for yet another CFJ on this issue.

>> Also, I have to question whether Proposal 3331 is in fact Literature.
> 
> Rule 210:[To be considered a piece of literature]It must contain one of
> the following:...
> (iii) a phrase that is not found in any other piece of literature.
> 
> So is literature:
> --
> Some special proposals are literature.
> ie a proposal with quoted material
> --
> or:
> --
> [the lit list is...] list of sources that can be quoted as Literature
> ie Works listed on the lit list.
> --

Er. Good question. I have always presumed it to be the latter
(obviously). If so, I would be surprised if that phrase doesn't occur
anywhere in - oh, say, ten years of The Simpsons.

Looks like we need yet another CFJ (though perhaps Alfvaen can still
give us a judgement on the matter in one thread). I'll submit the
first one if you submit the latter....

breadbox

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:55:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Chaos Reigns

On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, K2 wrote:

> Brian Raiter wrote:
> > Also, I have to question whether Proposal 3331 is in fact Literature.
> 
> Rule 210:[To be considered a piece of literature]It must contain one of
> the following:...
> (iii) a phrase that is not found in any other piece of literature.
> 
> So is literature:
> --
> Some special proposals are literature.
> ie a proposal with quoted material
> --
> or:
> --
> [the lit list is...] list of sources that can be quoted as Literature
> ie Works listed on the lit list.
> --
> 
> certainly the phrase "That way, everyone's happy." can't be found in the
> proposal archive (the closest I could find was in P759 - everyone is
> happy)....
> 
> 

Typical.  I write a perfectly good rule, and someone goes and mucks it up.
I do hope that my Geography suffers the same fate, thanks for voting for
it everyone. :)

When I first saw this proposal, I was sure it wasn't Literature, but after
reviewing the latest version of the Literature rule it looks like just
about any quote, large or small, from a piece of Literature, would
qualify.  Perhaps I will fix this, if I find the time.

By the by, I might note that a certain treasure map, of which parts have
been revealed, could conceivably have certain hidden sections.  These
sections might say something to the effect that quotes which are utterly
mundane and without merit will not aid seekers after that particular
treasure.  Then again, it might not have any such hidden sections, after
all.  Who can say?

                               - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3317 accepted

On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > > 
> > > {{ MTM is appointed Scaremonger }}
> > > CHICKEN_LITTLE
> 
> This passed? I can't believe this passed!!! The game is in a sorry state
> indeed if proposals like this are passing. This antivoting thing will be an
> end to us all I tell you. And if it wasn't antivoting... well... respected
> officers voting for this sort of thing can't be good, can it? Mark my
> words, the game will have crashed within weeks if we carry on with this
> sort of behaviour!!
> 
> Brie Clump, Scaremonger (probably)
> 

I very much doubt that you are Scaremonger.  If anything is Scaremonger,
it is the "MTM", but even MTM is the Scaremonger only if the phrase {{MTM
is appointed Scaremonger}} was sufficient to create, as well as appoint,
the thing named MTM.

                               - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:16:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3317 accepted

> I very much doubt that you are Scaremonger.  If anything is Scaremonger,
> it is the "MTM", but even MTM is the Scaremonger only if the phrase {{MTM
> is appointed Scaremonger}} was sufficient to create, as well as appoint,
> the thing named MTM.

We certainly have game custom to support the fact that a player may be
referred to by the initials of eir name if it is unambiguous (e.g. that TGW
has not learned eir lesson CFJ), and I'm pretty certain we have game custom
to allow players to be referred to by their previous names, but I can't
think of any off the top of my head. If these are both the case then they
should be able to apply together. If not then, oh well.

Brie Clump.

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3317 accepted

On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > I very much doubt that you are Scaremonger.  If anything is Scaremonger,
> > it is the "MTM", but even MTM is the Scaremonger only if the phrase {{MTM
> > is appointed Scaremonger}} was sufficient to create, as well as appoint,
> > the thing named MTM.
> 
> We certainly have game custom to support the fact that a player may be
> referred to by the initials of eir name if it is unambiguous (e.g. that TGW
> has not learned eir lesson CFJ), and I'm pretty certain we have game custom
> to allow players to be referred to by their previous names, but I can't
> think of any off the top of my head. If these are both the case then they
> should be able to apply together. If not then, oh well.
> 
> Brie Clump.
> 
Maybe so, but I think we have to draw the line somewhere.  A proposal
which refers to what may or may not be an abbreviation of a name which
someone was using at some point in the past?  I'd say that's a pretty good
place to draw said line.  Not that I consider this all that big a deal.
Go ahead and scare me, if you can. :)

                                   - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:15:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3317 accepted

> We certainly have game custom to support the fact that a player may
> be referred to by the initials of eir name if it is unambiguous
> (e.g. that TGW has not learned eir lesson CFJ),

Yes, but references in reports and CFJs are not the same as references
in the rules. A CFJ does not have the power to define a new entity,
for example. I think the contents of rules have to go by a slightly
stricter standard.

However, I believe it is also the case that, since there *is* no
entity named MTM, and there is some game custom (however small) for
referring to one of the players by those initials, and there is no
contradictory game custom, that it would have to be understood as
being Brie Clump (c.f. all the Malenkai's-Loophole CFJs).

breadbox

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End of acka-research-digest V3 #168
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