Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #91
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest       Tuesday, May 5 1998       Volume 03 : Number 091

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 02:56:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Salaries

On Mon, 4 May 1998, Eric Plumb wrote:

> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:
> 
> > The following salaries were paid out today at noon:
> > 
> > Let me know if I missed any...
> 
> You missed Nyarlathotep, if such is indeed an Office... :-)

***IF?****

From Rule 594.23:
There exists an optional Functional Office of Nyarlathotep.

And From Rule 403:
The following applies to all Functional Offices: 

(i) A functional Office has only one Seat unless the Rules specify
otherwise. 

(ii) As a Privilege of Office, each Player shall receive a monthly salary
equal to the Standard Harfer Fee for every Functional Office held. 

I think this is pretty clear.  H*bert is supposed to receive an A$25
salary.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 04:23:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Salaries

On Mon, 4 May 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> > You missed Nyarlathotep, if such is indeed an Office... :-)
> 
> ***IF?****

Well, I sent a CFJ to the CotC that calls for a CSR to RN either the
FM or the FO Nyarlathotep, by R348.  And seeing how the VP's such a VIP
shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT?  If it leaks to the VC he could end up
MIA and then we'd all be on KP.

ASAP.

- -Hubert

Scissors beat paper, rock beats scissors, and classical beats rock. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 07:36:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  Moral Kiosk

Okay you approval is proxied but according to rule 1005 that isn't enough
to approve the build a gadget action that was suggested prior to that
proxy, the action will be automatically approved on 7th May regardless....

K 2

_Whenever_ an Organizational Action is suggested by a member of that
Organization, all members of that Organization whose approval is proxied
automatically approve of the action _at the time_ it is suggested.

AARON KEESLER wrote:

> If I am still a member of the Moral Kiosk (which I think I am), I proxy
> my support to the organization.  Given the amount of time I can devote
> to Acka at the moment (almost enough time to make an Eleusis move every
> two weeks :)), I think it's better this way.
>
> ------------------
> Aaron Keesler
> Lotus Notes Administrator
> Intranet Administrator
> Adtran, Inc.
> ------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka:  Moral Kiosk

Rules... don't bother me with Rules :)

I approve of the Moral Kiosk's Secret Lab building whatever Rex Mundi
suggested.

>-----Original Message-----
>From:	K2 [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Tuesday, May 05, 1998 6:37 AM
>To:	[email-masked]
>Subject:	Re: Acka:  Moral Kiosk
>
>Okay you approval is proxied but according to rule 1005 that isn't enough
>to approve the build a gadget action that was suggested prior to that
>proxy, the action will be automatically approved on 7th May regardless....
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:07:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Raquel Peres da Silva" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2986

> Proposal 2986
> Theocracy
> else...if (Henry Towsner)
> 
> If the president, since eir most recent election to the position,
> has not selected a Church to be the State Religion, then e may do so.  At
> that time any Church which was previously the State Religion ceases to be
> so.  The Founder of the State Religion may select one statement to be the
> National Doctrine by publicly declaring it, and clearly marking it as the
> National Doctrine.  That statement will remain the National Doctrine for
as
> long as that Church remains the State Religion.  If a player, the
Vigilant,
> believes that another player, the Blasphemer, has publicly contradicted
the
> National Doctrine then the Vigilant may call a Blasphemy Hearing against
> that player, with emself as Hearing Harfer, provided there are less then
5
> Blasphemy Hearings in progress.  The responses to a Blasphemy Hearing are
> "E didn't understand what e was saying" and "Where's my torch?"  If the
> result is "E didn't understand what e was saying" then they player who
> called the Vigilant will lose 10 points.  If the result is "Where's my
> torch?" then the Blasphemer will lose 20 points and spend one day in
Gaol,
> contemplating the true faith.
> 
> {{Renumber this rule to number to 1307.2.}}

 Is this is a valid proposal?

As far as I know, there's no such rule yet, and the proposal didn't say
anything like "Create a rule with the text below:". So, if it doens't
exist, it can't be renumbered. Even if this proposal is accepted, it won't
create any rule, because it didn't attempt to.

Anyway, I voted NO: I believe in freedon of worship. :-)

Yours,

Ayla
Priestess of the Order of the Razor Boomerangs
Priestess of the Church of the Evil Ballot Stuffer

Law of Cat Motion:  A cat will move in a straight line, unless there is a
*really* good reason to change direction.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2986

>  Is this is a valid proposal?

Yes, it is.

There are two kinds of proposals.

The first kind lists a series of changes to the game state (usually
changes to the ruleset), and is the kind that you're familiar with.

The second kind of proposal simply gives the text of a rule to be
created. If the proposal is adopted, the rule is also given a number
and title identical to the proposal's.

See Rule 104.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:00:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2951 accepted

> Results of Proposal 2951
> 
> 19/24 votes: Quorum achieved
> 19/21 YES votes: Proposal accepted
> 
>     NO:
> Rex Mundi            (Klingon)
> Slakko               (SPAM)
> 

Well, I guess the Frobozz Security Service knows who to add to their
list of "usual suspects".

b

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:55:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Salaries

>The following salaries were paid out today at noon:
>Let me know if I missed any...
	Chair of the Ackan Reserve.

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

On Tue, 5 May 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:

> > I hereby create a Trinket called "The Politeness Moon" with a value of
> > A$23, with a description of "It is a shiny hadrathium medallion about
> > one-seventeenth of a standard cat-height in diameter, with Ayla's portrait
> > on the obverse and a lengthy commendation of eir outstanding record of
> > stellar Acka etiquette on the reverse, written in really tiny letters so
> > it all fits."  I gift this trinket to Ayla.
> 
> I'm pretty sure this creation failed, "The Politeness Moon" isn't a legal
> name for a trinket, is it?

Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?

Have any of you ever played Questions?

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:12:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

>Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?
>
>Have any of you ever played Questions?
>
Why do you ask?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:18:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Towsner wrote:

> >Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?
> >
> >Have any of you ever played Questions?
> >
> Why do you ask?

Oh, I was just wondering.

<evil grin>

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:27:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Eric Plumb wrote:

> On Tue, 5 May 1998, Towsner wrote:
> 
> > >Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?
> > >
> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
> > >
> > Why do you ask?
> 
> Oh, I was just wondering.

Statement: 15-0.

Why didn't you respond with a question?
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:30:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

>> > >Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?
>> > >
>> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
>> > >
>> > Why do you ask?
>>
>> Oh, I was just wondering.
>
>Statement: 15-0.
>
>Why didn't you respond with a question?
>
	Should I have?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:35:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Towsner wrote:

> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
> >> > >
> >> > Why do you ask?
> >>
> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
> >
> >Statement: 15-0.
> >
> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
> >
> 	Should I have?

Why shouldn't you have?
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:44:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Questions

>> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
>> >> > >
>> >> > Why do you ask?
>> >>
>> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
>> >
>> >Statement: 15-0.
>> >
>> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
>> >
>> 	Should I have?
>
>Why shouldn't you have?
>
Don't you know?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:45:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Towsner wrote:

> >> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > Why do you ask?
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
> >> >
> >> >Statement: 15-0.
> >> >
> >> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
> >> >
> >> 	Should I have?
> >
> >Why shouldn't you have?
> >
> Don't you know?

Do you think I'm stupid?
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:46:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2987

> Proposal 2987
> Don't feed the animals
> else...if (Henry Towsner)
> 
> Add the following, PEANUT-delimeted text, to the end of rule 721
> PEANUT
> IV. Monkey Baiting
> Sending a message required by the rules to which private replies to the
> sender are required (such as a hearing or some games) and not sending it to
> a -priv mailing list is Annoying.

I have to say that I *strongly* dislike this proposal. All this does is
change the burden of responsibility to the person calling the hearing from
the people responding to it. Being diagnosed with snowgod's disease isn't all
that serious anyway, especially compared with a crime. I know I don't want to
be found guilty of a crime for forgetting to send the mail to acka-priv. 

TGW, Count Tabula.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:47:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2954 rejected

On Tue, 5 May 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Results of Proposal 2954
> 
> 20/24 votes: Quorum achieved
> 7/20 YES votes: Proposal rejected
> 
>     YES:
> Alfvaen              (MetaMorph)
> JT                   (Boomerangs)
> Joe Java             (Boomerangs)
> K 2                  (MetaMorph)
> Pandora
> /dev/joe             (Vulcan)
> Tammany                                 [K 2 bribed Tammany A$25]

Wow.  I never expected this to get this much support.  Someone had better
investigate these seven (yes, including Tammany) for anti-State
activities.

> > Repeal all Rules except those with a base number of 1230 and Rule 42.

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:48:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: retraction (fwd)

Somebody asked what happened to props 2948 and 2990.  I also don't see
any result for 2948 in my mail, but 2990 was retracted:

> Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 12:26:32 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Sent-At-Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:26:33 -0700
> From: JT Traub <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Acka: retraction
> 
> I retract proposal 2990
> 

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:49:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

> > >> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > Why do you ask?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
> > >> >
> > >> >Statement: 15-0.
> > >> >
> > >> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
> > >> >
> > >> 	Should I have?
> > >
> > >Why shouldn't you have?
> > >
> > Don't you know?
> 
> Do you think I'm stupid?

Can you two shut up with these questions?

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2996

On Tue, 5 May 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Proposal 2996
> Fuzzy Voting
> saaremaa (Randy Hall)
E is Malenkai, not saaremaa.

> Amend rule 106, "Voting on Proposals", to read:
> 
> " 
> Voting Players may vote an integer between 0 and 100 inclusive
> on each proposal, by sending their vote to the Tabulator.  Votes
> must be unambiguous and unconditional. A Voting Player may also 
> choose not to vote on a proposal, which is called abstaining. Voting
> Players who do not vote within the prescribed voting period shall 
> be deemed to have abstained. Voting Players may change their vote 
> up until the end of the prescribed voting period, but in any case
> are limited to one vote per proposal. 

The first question that needs to be asked regarding this proposal is
whether or not it is easy for nomicbot to be converted.  breadbox has
spent a lot of time getting the nomicbot up to some decent standard - if
it is hard to convert to this new system then a lot of work will have been
wasted, and I would thoroughly disapprove of that.  So, breadbox, how
would nomicbot cope with such a change?

> Amend Rule 207, "Scoring When A Proposal's Voting Results are Reported",
> to delete section VII. Boring Proposals, and so that the body of section
> III reads:
> 
> "
> If a Modest proposal is accepted, the player who proposed it receives 5
> points.  If a Grandiose proposal is accepted, the player who proposed it 
> receives 16 points.  If a proposal which is neither Modest nor Grandiose 
> is accepted, the player who proposed it receives 10 points.
> 
> If a Modest proposal is rejected, but meets quorum, the player who 
> proposed it loses 5 points. If a Grandiose proposal is rejected, but 
> meets quorum, the player who proposed it loses 12 points.  If a proposal
> which is neither Modest nor Grandiose is rejected, but meets quorum, the 
> player who proposed it loses 7 points.

With the removal of anti-voting, leaving this paragraph as is increases
the penalties to people for having their proposals fail.  I see no need to
increase the penalties.

> 
> A proposal can only be declared to be Modest or Grandiose as described
> in the Rules. 
> "

We just amended this to create a new kind of game - I think it should be
allowed to run for at least a little while, to see what happens with BAA!
votes and the scoring thereof.

In addition, note well that, as is to be expected, this amendment will
remove all points for anti-voting.  Last time I did a survey of points
generated from proposals, 75% of points came from anti-voting.  That means
75% of the next Fortnightly Dividends came from anti-voting.  If the
creation of points is slashed in this way, the transfer of Ackadollars to
players will also be slashed.  

I have always disapproved of the removal of anti-voting, mainly on
economic grounds.  It completely collapses the foundation of Acka's
economy - people getting money every fortnight from their score changes.
By cutting score change points so dramatically, we risk collapsing the
economy, and I won't stand for it.

> 
> ;and so the body of section V reads:
> 
> "
> For the first three weeks of being a new player (as opposed to a returning
> player) in Ackanomic, a player shall receive a bonus as follows:
> one point for Modest proposals, five points for Grandiose
> proposals, three points otherwise, whenever one of their non-Modest 
> proposals is accepted or any one of their proposals is rejected. 
> "
> 
> Amend rule 313, "Proposal Bribery", as follows:
> 
> A. Replace "YES" in section IV, subsection B, with "100".
> B. Amend section V, subsection B, to read:
> 
> "
> B.  The Acceptance Threshold of a proposal containing an invalid bribe
> is 110.
> 
> {{[current text:
> 
> B. The required number of YES votes for a proposal containing an
> invalid bribe to be accepted is one more than the total number of 
> YES and NO votes legally cast within the prescribed voting period. 
> This paragraph takes precedence over rule 106.
> 
> ]}}
> "
> 
> ----
>  
> Amend rule 315, "Tammany", to replace section c) with:
> 
> "
> c) a Desired Vote of one of votes allowed on proposals by the
> other rules, or the special Tammany vote of SILENT.
> "
> 
> ;and to replace the last 2 paragraphs with:
> 
> "
> Tammany shall not vote unless the total amount of currency associated with
> Desired Votes other than SILENT exceeds two times the amount of currency
> associated with Desired Votes of SILENT.
> 
> If Tammany votes, its vote shall be the numeric vote with the most 
> total currency associated with it.  If two or more votes share this 
> distinction, its vote shall be the average of these.
> "

This method could easily cause some contrary Tammany votes.  I would
rather the vote be more organised - if Tammany does not vote SILENT, then
it should vote the nearest integer to the (sum of each (vote x bribe
size)) / (total bribes), so that each bribe gets exact proportional
weight.  If the votes are supposed to be Fuzzy, then Tammany should be
fuzzed out.

> 
> Amend rule 530, "The Stock Market", so that section b) reads:
> 
> "
> b) If for any reason the positivity value is unspecified, it will 
> be set to 10. If the positivity value is less than 0, then it will
> immediately become 0. Whenever a proposal passes, at the moment 
> its results are publicly knowable, the positivity value will
> increase by 0.1 for every player whose vote was in excess of the
> proposal's Acceptance Threshold. Whenever a proposal fails, at the 
> moment its results are publicly knowable, the positivity value will
> decrease by 0.1 for every player whose vote was not in excess of its
> Acceptance Threshold.
> "

This destroys half of the 1928 proposal which just passed - the ability of
the Board of the Ackan Reserve to manipulate the rate at which the stock
market rises and falls.

> 
> ----
> 
> Amend rule 923, "The Amber Banana", to replace "legal type of Vote"
> with "legal vote".
> 
> ----
> 
> Amend rule 1009, "Political Parties [...]" so that the first paragraph
> reads:
> 
> "
> A Political Party is a type of Organization. Being a member of more 
> than one Political Party simultaneously is the Crime of Branch-Stacking. 
> At the end of a proposal's voting period, but before votes on that 
> proposal are counted, if every active non-vacationing player member
> of a given Political Party voted the same way (SW) on that proposal, 
> and no member of the Party is also a member of some other Party, then
> the  Political Party itself shall cast an additional vote of SW on
> that proposal for every three active non-vacationing player members it has. 
> "

I once proposed something like this.  Niccolo proceeded to remind me that
the last time Parties had Unity Votes to vote NO, we had the Underworld
crisis.  This restores that power to Parties - do we really want that?

> Transform all Otzma Cards of Type Rod & Staff into A$5.
> Repeal the rule entitled "Otzma Card of Type Rod & Staff"

Oh come on - we just got it.  Repeal an older rule.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:00:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

>> >> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > Why do you ask?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
>> >> >
>> >> >Statement: 15-0.
>> >> >
>> >> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
>> >> >
>> >> 	Should I have?
>> >
>> >Why shouldn't you have?
>> >
>> Don't you know?
>
>Do you think I'm stupid?
>
Aren't you?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:01:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

>> > >> >> > >Have any of you ever played Questions?
>> > >> >> > >
>> > >> >> > Why do you ask?
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Oh, I was just wondering.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Statement: 15-0.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Why didn't you respond with a question?
>> > >> >
>> > >> 	Should I have?
>> > >
>> > >Why shouldn't you have?
>> > >
>> > Don't you know?
>>
>> Do you think I'm stupid?
>
>Can you two shut up with these questions?
>
Non sequiter.  15-15-0-0
Should we keep going?

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:04:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

> >Can you two shut up with these questions?
> >
> Non sequiter.  15-15-0-0
> Should we keep going?

Please no! Although this was *meant* to be slightly witty the sentiments were
true.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:06:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2987

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> I have to say that I *strongly* dislike this proposal. All this does is
> change the burden of responsibility to the person calling the hearing from
> the people responding to it. Being diagnosed with snowgod's disease isn't all
> that serious anyway, especially compared with a crime. I know I don't want to
> be found guilty of a crime for forgetting to send the mail to acka-priv. 

Not to mention that else...if has (twice IIRC) had a PHE called against em
for responding to a message *that was sent to acka-priv* because e forgot
to respond "no" to "Reply to all recipients?"  I've done it once or twice
myself.  I also voted NO on this proposal.

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Ubi Sunt

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> Proposal 2990 is marked as having been retracted - check the web page
> of current proposals.

Yeah, sorry.  I was looking on the Nomicbot's page (all sorts of kudos and
thanks for which, by the way) where retracted props are, understandably,
not displayed.

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2996

> > Proposal 2996
> > Fuzzy Voting
> > saaremaa (Randy Hall)
> E is Malenkai, not saaremaa.

E may be Malenkai and e may be saaremaa, we just don't know. Please try to
avoid statements like this prevented as fact. Thank you.

TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:17:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2996

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > > Proposal 2996
> > > Fuzzy Voting
> > > saaremaa (Randy Hall)
> > E is Malenkai, not saaremaa.
> 
> E may be Malenkai and e may be saaremaa, we just don't know. Please try to
> avoid statements like this prevented as fact. Thank you.

breadbox should also have avoided it.  I was ensuring that at least one
correct fact would be presented.  Unfortunately that required ensuring
that one falsehood was presented, but there you go.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - President, Web-Harfer, RuneMaker, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:22:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2953 rejected

On Tue, 5 May 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> > Proposal 2953 - Mon 27 Apr 1998 13:39 EDT
> > "Rehalfing the ruleset..."
> > H*bert (Jonathan David Amery)
> > 

 I retracted this one!!!

 H*bert.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:23:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2996

>>>> Proposal 2996
>>>> Fuzzy Voting
>>>> saaremaa (Randy Hall)
>>> E is Malenkai, not saaremaa.
>> 
>> E may be Malenkai and e may be saaremaa, we just don't know. Please try to
>> avoid statements like this prevented as fact. Thank you.
> 
> breadbox should also have avoided it.  I was ensuring that at least one
> correct fact would be presented.  Unfortunately that required ensuring
> that one falsehood was presented, but there you go.

As it happens, I also believe that the player's name is Malenkai.
However, until the CFJ's verdict is returned, I felt it would be less
confusing to follow same thread as the Registrar.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:25:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2953 rejected

> On Tue, 5 May 1998, nomicbot wrote:
> 
> > > Proposal 2953 - Mon 27 Apr 1998 13:39 EDT
> > > "Rehalfing the ruleset..."
> > > H*bert (Jonathan David Amery)
> > > 
> 
>  I retracted this one!!!
> 
>  H*bert.

Dammit. So you did. Scorekeeper, please take note.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:26:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2996

> > > > Proposal 2996
> > > > Fuzzy Voting
> > > > saaremaa (Randy Hall)
> > > E is Malenkai, not saaremaa.
> > 
> > E may be Malenkai and e may be saaremaa, we just don't know. Please try
to
> > avoid statements like this prevented as fact. Thank you.
> 
> breadbox should also have avoided it.  I was ensuring that at least one
> correct fact would be presented.  Unfortunately that required ensuring
> that one falsehood was presented, but there you go.

True, but breadbox was doing it as part of the semi-automated nomicbot. Also,
e had to put something there, and there was no need for you to comment. If
you did need to comment then I would have preferred you said something like:

"E may not be saaremaa but Malenkai."

That way you would definitely have a truth and perhaps have a falsehood.

TGW, feeling grouchy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:34:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Campaign Promises

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Eric Plumb wrote:

> On Tue, 5 May 1998, John Frederic Mc Coy wrote:
> 
> > > I hereby create a Trinket called "The Politeness Moon" with a value of
> > > A$23, with a description of "It is a shiny hadrathium medallion about
> > > one-seventeenth of a standard cat-height in diameter, with Ayla's portrait
> > > on the obverse and a lengthy commendation of eir outstanding record of
> > > stellar Acka etiquette on the reverse, written in really tiny letters so
> > > it all fits."  I gift this trinket to Ayla.
> > 
> > I'm pretty sure this creation failed, "The Politeness Moon" isn't a legal
> > name for a trinket, is it?
> 
> Politeness Moon Hearings are not entities, are they?
> 

I beg your pardon, I was reading Politeness Moon but thinking Silver Moon.

                                       - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:42:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: JT <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Old Fashioned Burning

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
>Rule 670 says, in section 4:
>
>4 day grace period (i.e. 8 days after the end of the last cycle) every
>member of the Commission, i.e. every Senator, was burned as a witch and
>had eir score reduced by 2 points.  However, seeing as the report was

My question, and I'll ask it here (mailing list changed to acka-research)
is, since we were burned as a witch, are we also Enlightened?  I would
think so, but I'm not 100% sure.

- --JT

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.                  ]
[ It's hard to sieze the day when you must first grapple with the morning ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:50:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Argh.

The moral kiosk started building eir Evil Ballot Stuffer in the possession
of Koxvolio at 5 May 1998 08:53:46 it will be complete on 8 may

AARON KEESLER wrote:

> I realized that my last post was to acka-research, and probably didn't
> count.  I also realize that this will happen automatically, but I insist
> on doing this right.
>
> I approve of the Moral Kiosk's Secret Lab building an EBS for Koxvolio.
>
> ------------------
> Aaron Keesler
> Lotus Notes Administrator
> Intranet Administrator
> Adtran, Inc.
> ------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:18:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Questions

>> >Can you two shut up with these questions?
>> >
>> Non sequiter.  15-15-0-0
>> Should we keep going?
>
>Please no! Although this was *meant* to be slightly witty the sentiments were
>true.
	Statement.  30-15-0-0
	Okay I'm done now.  Although what would have been so bad about just
ignoring this thread...

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:06:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2948 accepted

On Tue, 5 May 1998, nomicbot wrote:

> Results of Proposal 2948
> 
> 20/24 votes: Quorum achieved
> 13/18 YES votes: Proposal accepted
> 
>     YES:
> [ snip ]
> Tammany                                 [Hubert bribed Tammany A$100]
> Bonus Vote                              [The Gingham Wearer used a Bonus Vote]
> Bonus Vote                              [Hubert used a Bonus Vote]

I believe I only bribed Tammany A$31.

This doesn't change the voting results in any way, is just a note to the
Financier.  The relevant part of the message is quoted here:

#vote 2948 y
#tammany 2948 y 31

I thought this was the correct nomicbot format.  If not, I'll eat the
extra money as penance for bothering an already overworked Harfer.

I would also like to thank all those who voted for this proposal and ended
the cheap out of a Placement when checked.

Also, I would like to thank breadbox, thought it's been done many times
before, for a superb job of harfing, and apologize for pointing stuff
like this out.  Little flubs like this are more than excusable.

All hail breadbox!

- -Hubert

I love defenseless animals, especially in a good gravy.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:08:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Second Call for Diplomacy.

> This is to remind people that I am currently trying to start a game of
>GUNBOAT (i.e. not knowing who the other players are) nopress H31
>diplomacy.
	I just don't see what the point of Diplomacy is without diplomacy.

- --
- -Henry Towsner

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:15:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2948 accepted

> I believe I only bribed Tammany A$31.

This is in fact correct.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:23:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jonathan David Amery <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Second Call for Diplomacy.

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Towsner wrote:

> > This is to remind people that I am currently trying to start a game of
> >GUNBOAT (i.e. not knowing who the other players are) nopress H31
> >diplomacy.
> 	I just don't see what the point of Diplomacy is without diplomacy.
> 
 It's an interesting tactical game...

 Hundred (and H31) are well suited to nopress operation, and are more
often played that way than with press.

 H*bert.

 (Also the turns process faster...)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:36:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 162 (TRUE)

>  I'm not sure whether or not it is actually the Crime of Rampant Exhibitionism
> to dance naked on the town
> hall steps(it is listed as "illegal", not "a Crime"),

Rule 701:To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is the Crime
of Illegal Action.

> but Hubert certainly did not pay A$2 to the First Citizen for a[sic]
> Exhibitionist's permit,
> and the dance was not described in verse.  Therefore, e committed the
> Crime of Rampant Exhibitionism.

but the CFJ ask for an illegal action ruling....

>
>
> Actual penalty:
>
> A FINE of A$2(to cover the Exhibitionist's permit) and
> a PUBLIC APOLOGY of 5 lines so that Hubert may properly describe eir dance
> in verse.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2995

> "A player receives a brie if no CFCJ called against em has returned a
> final verdict of TRUE in the last two months.  To own a brie received in
> this manner is to commit the Crime of Being Cheesy.  If any CFCJ returns
> a TRUE verdict against a player, any brie they may have is destroyed."
>

So in other words I'm doomed if I do and doomed if I don't?

K 2
Caped Crusader.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:36:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Shells

Since my suport was proxied else...if's suggestion was acted on: 5 May 1998
13:34:27

K 2

Tom Walmsley wrote:

> >       I suggest that Shell#10 create a Silver Spaceship and transfer it
> > to K2.
>
> I support this action. Since I'm not totally sure this will work I also
> suggest that Shell#10 create a Silver Spaceship in the possession of K 2.
>
> TGW.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:36:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> I proxy my support to the Razor Boomerangs.  This makes exactly half of
> the members with proxied votes.  I pay A$10 to take possession of the
> Little Lamb.  I give the Little Lamb to the Razor Boomerangs.  (oopsie!)

wrt the treasure this wasn't an org action... so it doesn't count.

> I suggest the Razor Boomerangs play the song "Coming Back to You" (a
> suitably Boomerangy theme) by Leonard Cohen (a suitably awesome artist) on
> the Ackanomic Sound System.

The rule says "Any Player" - rule manipulation req? :)

K 2

> Also, I note (to the Org-Harfer K 2) that the Boomerangs revoked their
> open membership policy after JT and Joe Java joined.
>

Ta

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:36:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Shells

Tom Walmsley wrote:

> >       I suggest that Shell#10 create a Silver Spaceship and transfer it
> > to K2.
>
> I support this action. Since I'm not totally sure this will work I also
> suggest that Shell#10 create a Silver Spaceship in the possession of K 2.
>
> TGW.

I see what you mean, but the suggestion does state whats being created and
its intended recipient:

An Organization may, as an action, use any Secret Laboratory it owns to build
a Gadget from any existing Qualified Blueprint in
the possession of a player who is one of its members, who must be named when
the action is declared.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 20:43:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2995

On Tue, 5 May 1998, K2 wrote:

> > "A player receives a brie if no CFCJ called against em has returned a
> > final verdict of TRUE in the last two months.  To own a brie received in
> > this manner is to commit the Crime of Being Cheesy.  If any CFCJ returns
> > a TRUE verdict against a player, any brie they may have is destroyed."
> 
> So in other words I'm doomed if I do and doomed if I don't?

It'll just make players who want to win by Cheeses a *bit* more careful.

- -Hubert

Is it OK to yell "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse? 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

On Tue, 5 May 1998, K2 wrote:

> > I proxy my support to the Razor Boomerangs.  This makes exactly half of
> > the members with proxied votes.  I pay A$10 to take possession of the
> > Little Lamb.  I give the Little Lamb to the Razor Boomerangs.  (oopsie!)
> 
> wrt the treasure this wasn't an org action... so it doesn't count.

Then be more specific. :-)

> The rule says "Any Player" - rule manipulation req? :)

Perhaps.  Anyone else in favor of undoing the recent changes to Orgs?

- -Hubert

Is it OK to yell "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse? 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:23:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Plumb <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC: Another Party Chess Piece

I like the HarfyBlob, which grows more powerful with each piece it
captures, and wondered what you beings would think of a similar piece.  I
was thinking of putting an instance limit of two or three on it, too.

- ---------------------------

Create a rule as a new member of the Party Chess Rule Suite entitled
"Creation of a PartyChessPiece Locust" with the following
EXPONENTIA-delimited text:

EXPONENTIA
A Locust is a piece with a Material Value of the smaller of
a) 6, or
b) 1.5*N rounded down, where N is the number of on-board Locust pieces.

A Locust is depicted by the ASCII character 'L'.

A Locust may move up to N/2 squares, rounded up, in any horizontal,
vertical, or diagonal direction, and then up to N/2 squares, rounded down,
in a direction perpendicular to that of the first move, where N is the
number of on-board Locust pieces.  A Locust may not skip over pieces in
its path, and must make both halves of its move in order to move at all.

{{ Hubert loses 2 points.  Richard Garfield gains 2 points. }}
EXPONENTIA

Append the end of the second-to-last paragraph of Rule 1230.14, "Creation
of a PartyChessPiece HarfyBlob," the sentence "If the captured piece was
a Locust, the Hn of the HarfyBlob is increased by the number of Locust
pieces remaining on-board after the Capture." [ This actually increases
the Hn of the HarfyBlob by the number of Locust pieces on-board *before*
the capture, because it was increased by 1 by the first sentence. ]

- -Hubert

Is it OK to yell "MOVIE!" in a crowded firehouse? 

------------------------------

End of acka-research-digest V3 #91
**********************************