Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #66
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest      Sunday, April 12 1998      Volume 03 : Number 066

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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:40:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Reports

>> Not necessarily. Your eligibility is determined at the time of
>> Nomination.
>> 
>> In fact, your resignation might require a brand new election to begin.
> 
> My admittedly cursory examination of the Rules in the 400s found no
> mention of the fact that I would be ineligible to be Nominated for the
> office because I held the seat already.  (It says that any player who
> would be eligible to hold the Office would be eligible for Nomination.
> Obviously I'm eligible to hold the Office; I did until several hours
> ago.)  If I simply missed something, please point it out to me.

Rule 401 states that "No player may hold more than one seat for a
given Office, including any seat held in an acting capacity".

I believe this would make you ineligible, although as I stated at the
time, I'm not sure.

breadbox

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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 04:28:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Reports

On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> >> Not necessarily. Your eligibility is determined at the time of
> >> Nomination.
> >> 
> >> In fact, your resignation might require a brand new election to begin.
> > 
> > My admittedly cursory examination of the Rules in the 400s found no
> > mention of the fact that I would be ineligible to be Nominated for the
> > office because I held the seat already.  (It says that any player who
> > would be eligible to hold the Office would be eligible for Nomination.
> > Obviously I'm eligible to hold the Office; I did until several hours
> > ago.)  If I simply missed something, please point it out to me.
> 
> Rule 401 states that "No player may hold more than one seat for a
> given Office, including any seat held in an acting capacity".
> 
> I believe this would make you ineligible, although as I stated at the
> time, I'm not sure.

That doesn't seem to be all that useful.  It isn't a direct statement
about eligibility to nominate.  Rule 402, on the other hand, states that

"Any Player who is eligible to Hold the Office is eligible to volunteer".
An existing player holding the office is eligible to hold it, and
therefore eligible to volunteer for it.

Which would mean that your list of Senate candidates was incorrect, and
Vynd and /dev/joe should both have been listed on the ticket.
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Year PhD(Pure Maths), CUDipSoc, CUSFS, CUSTS, CURS etc
Acka - ex-President/still Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:30:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Count Tabula Reports

> > My admittedly cursory examination of the Rules in the 400s found no
> > mention of the fact that I would be ineligible to be Nominated for the
> > office because I held the seat already.  (It says that any player who
> > would be eligible to hold the Office would be eligible for Nomination.
> > Obviously I'm eligible to hold the Office; I did until several hours
> > ago.)  If I simply missed something, please point it out to me.

> Rule 401 states that "No player may hold more than one seat for a
> given Office, including any seat held in an acting capacity".

> I believe this would make you ineligible, although as I stated at the
> time, I'm not sure.

Would not the same clause make the holder of a Functional Office
ineligible to nominate emself for it, if e has not yet resigned?  I
don't think we have ever read the Rule that way.  The problem is
simply that for Political Offices, heretofore, it has always been
necessary that the seat be vacant before an Election be held.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Song In My Head--Leonard Cohen:So Long, Marianne
Current Book--Sean Stewart:The Night Watch
Watch out for the Alerted Snakes of Consequence.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:17:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Proposal Archives

I've noticed that in the Proposal archive it is recorded when a Proposal
was submitted by the Promoter(or Speaker), but when the Proposal's
acceptance or rejection is decided is not.  I wonder if this might not be
a good idea.  For one thing, I think that with the Proposal archive and
the Initial Ruleset one should be able to reconstruct the Ruleset at any
given point in time, and not knowing whether the Proposal took effect
earlier(back when it could do so if everyone had voted on it), or later
(because the Tabulator released the results late, which in practice is
what always happens)makes this difficult.

I volunteer to do the groveling over email archives, pointlogs, etc.,
myself that is necessary.  Of course, for the first few months there
might not be any of that information available, but I have heard rumours
that mail logs from that era do exist.  :-)  I can't guarantee my
dedication to this project, but I would be willing to give it a try
anyway.

Now I'm wishing we'd paid more attention to Archie Leach's system, whatever
it was, to standardize Rules and Proposals...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--The Moody Blues:The Other Side of Life
Current Book--Sean Stewart:The Night Watch
Hey!  Leggo my ego!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2874

On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> {{[There was some discussion on the nomic bulletin board recently about how
> to pronounce "nomic". Apparently its roots are from the Greek word nomos
> meaning (IIRC) law which is pronounced with a short "O". Peter Suber (the
> inventor of nomic), however claims that he pronounces it with a long "O". I

I will verify Peter Suber's claim that he pronounces nomic with a long o.
A friend has suggested that he does this to annoy his wife, a classical
Greek scholar;  I shan't make any judgement on that statement.

rufus

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:46:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal Archives

> I've noticed that in the Proposal archive it is recorded when a
> Proposal was submitted by the Promoter(or Speaker), but when the
> Proposal's acceptance or rejection is decided is not.  I wonder if
> this might not be a good idea.

The attributions in the rules do show when a rule was modified, though
only to the day instead of to the minute.

If people feel this is insufficient, perhaps I can work out a system
to start recording this information in the future - at least once the
proposal archive isn't being done by hand.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:51:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal Archives

> The attributions in the rules do show when a rule was modified, though
> only to the day instead of to the minute.
> 
> If people feel this is insufficient, perhaps I can work out a system
> to start recording this information in the future - at least once the
> proposal archive isn't being done by hand.

Personally, I think that would probably suffice. If we need to be more
accurate then we can go back into the mail archives. The only problem would
be with repealed rules. Their attribution obviously isn't shown anywhere.
Still, if Alfvaen wants to do this then who are we to stop him? :-)

TGW, weird.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:52:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal Archives

On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> TGW, weird.

we knew that already.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:05:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: My attempted Frankenstein Monster win

>> The discovery currently reads:
>>
>> ".....Previously Nyarlathotep was not fully described, but it is now."
>>
>> This means, as things currently stand Nyarlathotep is currently
>> fully described by the discovery. Therefore, anything else submitted
>> conflicts with what is already there.
>
>A Discovery, however, is not really a legal document, and does not
>become one until it turns into a Blueprint. To me, the sentence makes
>more sense when interepreted as referring to "realtime" - that is,
>"previously" and "now" being relative to the Blueprint taking effect -
>than when interpreted as referring to the reader's progress down the
>page - that is, "previously" and "now" being relative to its placement
>within the Blueprint. (I presume the latter interpretation is what
>you're pushing for.)
>
>breadbox
>
My own eenterpreetation vas very zimilar to zat of ze ezteemeed breadbox, who
hes zaved me ze trooble of explenning myzelf in zis acczent!

Rex Mundi!
Mad Zcientizt!

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Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:32:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Weirdness

> > TGW, weird.
> 
> we knew that already.

ROFL! I'll take that as a compliment :-). Incidentally, for some reason
that's reminded me of something I was talking to two-star about on IRC
yesterday; am I the youngest current player of Acka. I'm currently 17 and I
couldn't actually think of anyone younger, although I know that there are a
few that come close. Am I right in this or is there anyone else out there
younger than I? Also, something else that I mentioned to breadbox and then
again on IRC, to Slakko I think; why is it that pretty much all of Acka are
either mathematicians, physicists, or do something connected to computers.
Any thoughts?

TGW, still weird :-).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:55:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Re: Acka: Weirdness

>> > TGW, weird.
>>
>> we knew that already.
>
>ROFL! I'll take that as a compliment :-). Incidentally, for some reason
>that's reminded me of something I was talking to two-star about on IRC
>yesterday; am I the youngest current player of Acka. I'm currently 17 and I
>couldn't actually think of anyone younger, although I know that there are a
>few that come close. Am I right in this or is there anyone else out there
>younger than I?

I'm 16.  Sorry 'bout that :-).

>Also, something else that I mentioned to breadbox and then
>again on IRC, to Slakko I think; why is it that pretty much all of Acka are
>either mathematicians, physicists, or do something connected to computers.
>Any thoughts?

I would say that it takes a somewhat analytical mind to see the attraction
in Nomic (however it's pronounced).  I seem to recall someone making a comment
about this somewhere on an Agora page as well, so I certainly don't think
it's confined to Acka.

>
>TGW, still weird :-).

AtP  (maybe we should start a society for People whose names have TLAs)

"You don't understand! *First* I shot the arrows, and *then* I painted the
targets!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:58:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Weirdness

>I'm 16.  Sorry 'bout that :-).
	Me too.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:02:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Weirdness

On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > > TGW, weird.
> > 
> > we knew that already.
> 
> ROFL! I'll take that as a compliment :-). Incidentally, for some reason
> that's reminded me of something I was talking to two-star about on IRC
> yesterday; am I the youngest current player of Acka. I'm currently 17 and I
> couldn't actually think of anyone younger, although I know that there are a
> few that come close. Am I right in this or is there anyone else out there
> younger than I? Also, something else that I mentioned to breadbox and then
> again on IRC, to Slakko I think; why is it that pretty much all of Acka are
> either mathematicians, physicists, or do something connected to computers.
> Any thoughts?
> 
> TGW, still weird :-).
> 

I'm 21, so you're younger than I am, at least.

I am NOT, however, a math or computer person.  I'll be graduating in a
couple of weeks with a degree in psychology and interdisciplinary social
science.  And then I'm going to go live at home until such time as people
start hiring folks like me.

                                      - Vynd

not bitter

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:07:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Micah Smukler)
Subject: Re: Acka: Weirdness

Townser wrote:
>>I'm 16.  Sorry 'bout that :-).
>        Me too.
>

Just out of curiosity, when's your birthday?

"You don't understand! *First* I shot the arrows, and *then* I painted the
targets!"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal Archives

> > The attributions in the rules do show when a rule was modified, though
> > only to the day instead of to the minute.

> > If people feel this is insufficient, perhaps I can work out a system
> > to start recording this information in the future - at least once the
> > proposal archive isn't being done by hand.

> Personally, I think that would probably suffice. If we need to be more
> accurate then we can go back into the mail archives. The only problem would
> be with repealed rules. Their attribution obviously isn't shown anywhere.
> Still, if Alfvaen wants to do this then who are we to stop him? :-)

Yes, it was repealed rules I was thinking of.  There hasn't been an up-
to-date repealed rules page for a while.  But I was actually just working
on a project to try to look at the development of the ruleset over time...
And it doesn't seem too unreasonable that the Proposal archives should show
the time of acceptance if it can't be calculated trivially from the time of
original distribution.

But it may be sort of like the situation with paperback books at our
local library.  They've never been individually catalogued(so it's
impossible to tell if they have a particular paperback book in their
collection), but by now it would be a monumental task to go through and
do it for all of them, so I can understand their reluctance...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--The Moody Blues:The Other Side of Life
Current Book--Sean Stewart:The Night Watch
Be like the reeds.  Bend with the wind and conceal ducks.

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End of acka-research-digest V3 #66
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