Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #39
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest     Thursday, March 12 1998     Volume 03 : Number 039

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:21:56 -0500 (EST)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: [Fwd: Acka:Illuminatus]

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In an effort to gain 11th hour support for my nomination....
I have created a web page at
 http://home.connexus.net.au/~kii/illumin.html

(it'll be up in about 10 minutes)

comments welcome.

K 2

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Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:14:01 +1100
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
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Subject: Acka:Illuminatus
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In an effort to gain 11th hour support for my nomination....
I have created a web page at
 http://home.connexus.net.au/~kii/illumin.html

(it'll be up in about 10 minutes)

coments welcome.

K 2

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<HTML>
In an effort to gain 11th hour support for my nomination....
<BR>I have created a web page at
<BR>&nbsp;<A HREF="http://home.connexus.net.au/~gazza/">http://home.connexus.net.au/~kii/illumin.html</A>

<P>(it'll be up in about 10 minutes)

<P>coments welcome.
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>K 2
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:18:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acka:Illuminatus]

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, K2 wrote:

> In an effort to gain 11th hour support for my nomination....
> I have created a web page at
>  http://home.connexus.net.au/~kii/illumin.html

This is actually 13th hour support - the election ended on Tuesday.
I hope rufus sends the results soon.

Good page, BTW - unfortunately I didn't vote for you because I didn't know
about it :-(

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:54:33 -0500 (EST)
From: K2 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Acka:Illuminatus]

> This is actually 13th hour support - the election ended on Tuesday.
> I hope rufus sends the results soon.
>

Oh well :)

Perhaps I should start work on an Ambassador's page

> Good page, BTW - unfortunately I didn't vote for you because I didn't know
> about it :-(
>
> --
> Duncan C. "" Richer aka
> Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
> Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
> Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:26:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tom Walmsley" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Baa Part 2

> There may be some thread-split confusion over the ownership of the Little
> Lamb (it all depends on when TGW took it).
> 
> So, if I am currently not in possession of the Little Lamb, I take
> possession of the Little Lamb, paying the appropriate A$10 fee.

And you accused me of being a thread split :-).

TGW.

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:35:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Baa Part 2

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote:

> > There may be some thread-split confusion over the ownership of the Little
> > Lamb (it all depends on when TGW took it).
> > 
> > So, if I am currently not in possession of the Little Lamb, I take
> > possession of the Little Lamb, paying the appropriate A$10 fee.
> 
> And you accused me of being a thread split :-).

My thread split is conditional on your thread split.
So it's all your fault :-)

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko (Lost) Warner - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/ - Queens' College
Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa) - .Nomic Elector, Frgn Minister, HP(Morpork)
Acka - President "Gumball" Web-Harfer RuneMaker ChessUmpire Map-Harfer

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 14:15:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Another question.

What sorts of changes do you think it would take for
Ackanomic to become a more 'statute-based' game, like
Agoranomic, with a large set of rules, not all of them
necessarily memorized?  [I mean besides the obvious
rule-changes; political, social, et cetera.]  Do you
think the change would increase or decrease the 'harfiness'
of the game?

Sunflare

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:04:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Guy Fawkes <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

Last time I checked, the Acka ruleset was actually larger than Agora's,
and I don't know about other players, but I certainly don't have the Rules
memorized.  I know how the most-used parts of the Rules work, and when I
wish to use some other part of the Rules, or need careful detail knowledge
of a given Rule, I look it up.  Very occasionally, I do read the Rules
through from beginning to end -- the result is that in any given
situation, I have a fairly good idea where to start examining the Rules to
find out the legality of something or another, and quite often, I can say
"I think there's a clause regarding that in the Rules about this."

Honestly though, I truly doubt anyone here knows the Rules with absolute
certainty -- the true skill is not necessarily memorizing what the Rules
say, but knowing where to look when there is doubt.

So in answer to your question -- Acka is a very 'statute-based' game by
your definition.  What did you mean?

Guy Fawkes

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:10:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Hubert <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 545 Appeal

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote:

> So let us assume The Gingham Wearer was able to enter R1ir#H.  Would e
> still be Sheltered?  Rule 841 states that "the term 'Ostentatious Tower'
> is always with respect to a particular player".  I believe that this may

Ooh, good point.  I thwap myself over the head with the D'oh!.  Since
thwapping is not regulated by the Rules, this happens.

> I also note that the fact that Towers seem to be specified to Shelter
> players _only during Tornados_ would make this trivially FALSE anyway,
> but I'd like to know whether TGW would be Sheltered during the Tornado
> as well.

I thought about this when rendering judgment and decided that since, for
example, Slakko was Sheltered when you tried to Hose him, the term
Sheltered can apply to anyone in a building with a Tower.  In other
words, rules besides the Tornado refer to being Sheltered as a kind of
player state.  (Not an attribute. :-))))

- -Hubert

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:16:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Sunflare <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

At 04:04 PM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Last time I checked, the Acka ruleset was actually larger than Agora's,
>and I don't know about other players, but I certainly don't have the Rules
>memorized.  I know how the most-used parts of the Rules work, and when I
>wish to use some other part of the Rules, or need careful detail knowledge
>of a given Rule, I look it up.  Very occasionally, I do read the Rules
>through from beginning to end -- the result is that in any given
>situation, I have a fairly good idea where to start examining the Rules to
>find out the legality of something or another, and quite often, I can say
>"I think there's a clause regarding that in the Rules about this."
>
>Honestly though, I truly doubt anyone here knows the Rules with absolute
>certainty -- the true skill is not necessarily memorizing what the Rules
>say, but knowing where to look when there is doubt.
>
>So in answer to your question -- Acka is a very 'statute-based' game by
>your definition.  What did you mean?
>
>Guy Fawkes

You've got a very good point there, and I feel I really didn't state my
question well, and perhaps I took the wrong slant with it.  Perhaps this
will be better.

Ackanomic is still, despite the large ruleset, very 'game-like'.  It's
hard to quantify what 'game-like' means, but a look at some of the rules
[like hats, the moving around the world, the various sub-games in and of
themselves, and the general 'silliness' of the game] will show an innate
sense of 'fun' and silliness and a just-off-centre view of the game-world.
A lot of it is 'realistic', but a lot of it is just a bit off-kilter --
as CnH put in an eMail to me, where else might one build a tower that's
infinity minus three cats high?

In comparison, Agora's ruleset is more mundane.  Certainly, there ARE odd
things hanging around, but not anywhere near as many.  I was wondering
what you think would be required for a movement to a comparatively mundane,
more 'real-life' gaming system... and any changes in the humour or 'harfiness'
involved in such.

Sunflare

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:25:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

>In comparison, Agora's ruleset is more mundane.  Certainly, there ARE odd
>things hanging around, but not anywhere near as many.  I was wondering
>what you think would be required for a movement to a comparatively mundane,
>more 'real-life' gaming system... and any changes in the humour or 'harfiness'
>involved in such.
	A totally different group of players.  That silliness is what (in
my opinion) distinguishes Acka from Agora.  I have a friend who doesn't
play any Nomic at the moment, but has read Suber.  When I told him about
Acka, he disliked it because it had moved too far from the original concept
of an abstrat ruleset and was too silly.  People like that are more likely
to play Agora, because it's the sort of thing they like.  People who play
Acka are attracted to the whimsical parts.  I'd say harfiness is the
underlying element to all of Acka.  In short, it would be a total overhaul
of attitude towards the game.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:08:50 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

I tend to agree with what else...if says: that Acka is harfy and pretty
far from pure Suberian nomic, and it is that way because the players want
it like that.  That is certainly why I am here as oppposed to somewhere
else.  I have played a number of nomics in person, most of been pretty
serious, but a couple were very strange.  The serious games had some level
of silliness, though.  I played one game that involved a really
interesting system, that had all sorts of really anti-intuitive features.
Of course, we based scoring on who could generate the longest
non-redundent proof of theorms.  Really really odd. 

rufus

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:05:40 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

On Thu, 12 Mar 1998, Sunflare wrote:

> What sorts of changes do you think it would take for
> Ackanomic to become a more 'statute-based' game, like
> Agoranomic, with a large set of rules, not all of them
> necessarily memorized?  [I mean besides the obvious
> rule-changes; political, social, et cetera.]  Do you
> think the change would increase or decrease the 'harfiness'
> of the game?
> 
> Sunflare
> 

Well...  Frankly I don't see something like that happening.  Short of
packing up and starting over, that is.  Or perhaps being overwhelmed by
new players with their own ideas, who alter things against the will of the
older players (an Agoran invasion?).  As it stands now, Acka to me seems
to be too well established to undergo that sort of a radical change,
except under very radical circumstances.  The people who ahve been here
awhile presumably like things more or less the way they are, and newer
players who don't like things as much either change their minds or leave,
long before they could add up other dissatisfied people to form a
majority.

As far as harf is concerned, it is preposterous to even raise the
question!  We have already achieved the pinnacle of harf!  The universe
basks in our glory!

                                       - Vynd

[email-masked]

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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:11:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Another question.

At 02:15 PM 3/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>What sorts of changes do you think it would take for
>Ackanomic to become a more 'statute-based' game, like
>Agoranomic, with a large set of rules, not all of them
>necessarily memorized?  [I mean besides the obvious
>rule-changes; political, social, et cetera.]  Do you
>think the change would increase or decrease the 'harfiness'
>of the game?

IMO the game's harfiness would not necessarily be effected. It would depend
on what specifically was done. I certainly would support any action that
would make it easier for new players to get into the game. The game should
be complex, but not prohibitively so. If the complexity can be present, but
not require everyone to comprehend it, then that is a good thing.

Harf,
Robert Sevin

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End of acka-research-digest V3 #39
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