Subject: acka-research-digest V3 #253
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest     Monday, February 9 1998     Volume 03 : Number 253

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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 02:56:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2706

On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:
> 
> > Proposal 2706
> > Free For All can be Cool For All
> > Niccolo Flychuck (Uri Bruck)
> > 
> > Append to subsection C the following text:
> > "Capturing a King is an illegal Play.
> > A player who is checked needs to wait for only two days after eir most
> > recent play in order to play again."
> 
> About the only place in the game where King Capture is at all likely is
> during a Free For All.  It may be possible to have a capture occur in
> another situation, but it wouldrequire three players checked
> simultaneously under the current rules. 

Actually Slakko, I think it was you who demonstrated at least one other
situation where a King Capture is possible outside an FFA.
> 
> 1. I would rather have seen this particular part in a separate proposal.
I'd first want to see how this one goes.

> 
> 2. If King Capture is to be restricted in Free For Alls, then why not
> restrict it completely, and theneliminate the King Capture text from all
> the relevant rules?  It would simplify the Chess Rules.

When I suggested disallowing king captures on the acka-chess list three
days ago you replied that it sounds reasonable.

Niccolo Flychuck

> 
> Yours,
> Slakko
> just making my POV known - apologies if my objections earlier were too
> muted.
> - -- 
> Duncan C. "" Richer aka
> Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
> Queens', Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa), Graph Theory - CU SFS/RS/STS/Dip
> Acka - RuneMaker ChessUmpire Senator Map-Harfer .Nomic - HP(Morpork)
> 
> ------------------------------
> 

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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 03:02:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2706

On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:
> > 
> > > Proposal 2706
> > > Free For All can be Cool For All
> > > Niccolo Flychuck (Uri Bruck)
> > > 
> > > Append to subsection C the following text:
> > > "Capturing a King is an illegal Play.
> > > A player who is checked needs to wait for only two days after eir most
> > > recent play in order to play again."
> > 
> > About the only place in the game where King Capture is at all likely is
> > during a Free For All.  It may be possible to have a capture occur in
> > another situation, but it wouldrequire three players checked
> > simultaneously under the current rules. 
> 
> Actually Slakko, I think it was you who demonstrated at least one other
> situation where a King Capture is possible outside an FFA.

Whatever I thought of back then, it probably involved Tornados, before I
realised that they would still get the check problem.
> > 
> > 1. I would rather have seen this particular part in a separate proposal.
> I'd first want to see how this one goes.
> 
> > 
> > 2. If King Capture is to be restricted in Free For Alls, then why not
> > restrict it completely, and theneliminate the King Capture text from all
> > the relevant rules?  It would simplify the Chess Rules.
> 
> When I suggested disallowing king captures on the acka-chess list three
> days ago you replied that it sounds reasonable.

Sorry.  That was a bit of a gut reaction - I hadn't thought through the
implications.  I'll vote for this as a temporary stopgap - it really
should be fixed one way or the other completely IMHO.

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens', Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa), Graph Theory - CU SFS/RS/STS/Dip
Acka - RuneMaker ChessUmpire Senator Map-Harfer .Nomic - HP(Morpork)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:12:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2706

Slakko wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Uri Bruck wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Duncan Richer wrote:
> > > 
> > > About the only place in the game where King Capture is at all likely is
> > > during a Free For All.  It may be possible to have a capture occur in
> > > another situation, but it wouldrequire three players checked
> > > simultaneously under the current rules. 
> > 
> > Actually Slakko, I think it was you who demonstrated at least one other
> > situation where a King Capture is possible outside an FFA.
> 
> Whatever I thought of back then, it probably involved Tornados, before I
> realised that they would still get the check problem.

Actually, I think it only requires two players checked simultaneously.
One possible situation is: (## and ** for empty squares)

   AK ## ## ## AT ## ** CT ## ## ## BK

Assuming no other relevant pieces on the board, if C moves his tornado
to the **'d space, both A and B are in check, and if A moves next, he
can capture C's tornado and B's king.  Admittedly, this is contrived
because C is almost guaranteed to lose his tornado with that move, but
it shows that it *is* possible.

Another one is:

   ## BR ## ##
   AK ## BK ##
   ## AR ## ##
   ## ## ## C%

If C moves his cantor to the space between the kings, whichever of A and B
gets the next move can capture the other king.

I came up with two ways in five minutes thought; surely there are other ways.

/dev/joe

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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:44:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2706

On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> Another one is:
> 
>    ## BR ## ##
>    AK ## BK ##
>    ## AR ## ##
>    ## ## ## C%
> 
> If C moves his cantor to the space between the kings, whichever of A and B
> gets the next move can capture the other king.
> 
> I came up with two ways in five minutes thought; surely there are other ways.
> 
Fair enough.  I thought the cases were sufficiently pathological, but
apparently they aren't.  Niccolo's method should stand.

Yours,
Slakko
now quite contrite
- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens', Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa), Graph Theory - CU SFS/RS/STS/Dip
Acka - RuneMaker ChessUmpire Senator Map-Harfer .Nomic - HP(Morpork)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:46:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2685 accepted

On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> 20/21 YES votes: Proposal accepted
>     NO:
> Malenkai             (Vulcan)

> > and I don't want objection to this to kill the main idea. Malenkai often
> > objected to robbing the Speaker of any of the pitifully few privileges the
> > Office has.]}}

It appears he was the only one with objections this time. :-)
> 

- -- 
Duncan C. "" Richer aka
Slakko the Really Lost Warner Brother - http://dcr24.quns.cam.ac.uk/
Queens', Cambridge, 1st Yr PhD(PMa), Graph Theory - CU SFS/RS/STS/Dip
Acka - RuneMaker ChessUmpire Senator Map-Harfer .Nomic - HP(Morpork)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:38:26 -0500 (EST)
From: AARON KEESLER <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Proposal 2710

I would really prefer something that allows certain guildelines to be
removed, while others stick around.  For instance, a hearing called on a
guideline or set of guidelines, instead of the entire Zuriti'ili
document.

Just my A$.02

- ------------------
Aaron Keesler
Lotus Notes Administrator
Intranet Administrator
Adtran, Inc.
- ------------------

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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 20:43:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC

	Here's my stock market proposal RFC:

	Create a rule numbered 530 named "The Stock Market" reading as
delimited by TSM
TSM
a) There is an unownable, nameless, unique entity known as the Stock
Market.  The Stock Market has a value associated with it at all times known
as its core value.  The core value will at all times be equal to the sum of
the activity value, the ownership value, and the positivity value.

b)  If for any reason the positivity value is unspecified, it will be set
to 10.  If the positivity value is less than 0, then it will immediately
become 0.  Whenever a proposal passes, the positivity value will increase
by 0.1 for every player who voted in favor of the proposal.  Whenever a
proposal fails, the positivity value will decrease by 0.1 for every player
who voted against it.

c)  If for any reason the activity value is unspecified, it will be set to
10.  If the activity value is less than 0, then it will immediately become
0.  At the end of each Acka day, a value called the ACT quotient will be
calculated.  It will be equal to the number of proposals and CFJ's combined
publicly announced during the day, divided by the average number of
proposals and CFJ's combined which have been announced on average in the
course of the game.  If the ACT quotient is greater than 1, then the ACT
quotient minus 1 rounded to the nearest quotient will be added to the
activity value.  If the ACT quotient is less than 1 but greater than 0,
then the recipricol of the ACT quotient, minus 1, rounded to the nearest
quotient will be subtracted from the activity value.  {{[If the ACT
quotient is 0, there will be no change, to reduce the ability of the
Promoter and CotC to manipulate this value.]}}

c)  If for any reason the ownership value is unspecified, it will be set to
10.  If the ownership value is less than 0, then it will immediately become
0.  Whenever a stock is purchased by any entity other than the Ackan
Reserve, the ownership value will become P/S*(S+1) immediately before the
stock is purchased, where P is the ownership value and S is the number of
stocks in existance. Whenever a stock is sold by any entity other than the
Ackan Reserve, the ownership value will become P/S*(S-1) immediately before
the stock is sold, where P is the ownership value and S is the number of
stocks in existance.

e) Each political party has a value associated with it known as its stock
value. Whenever for any reason the stock value of a political party is
unknown, it will be set to 10.  If the stock value of a political party is
less than 0, then it will immediately become 0.  The stock value of a
political party increases by 1 every time the party cast a unity vote, and
decreases by 0.4 whenever a proposal passes or fails and the party did not
cast a unity vote.  Stocks associated with a political party remain
associated with that political party as long as it exists.  If a political
party ceases to exist, than all associated stocks will become unassociated.

f) Players may purchase or sell a number of stocks by publicly announcing
that they intend to do so, and the associated political party.  The cost of
a share will be the core value plus the stock value of the associated
political party, or 0 if the stock is unassociated.  If the player lacks
enough money to purchase the number of shares they requested, than the
purchase request will be treated as if they requested the largest number of
stocks they can buy without going into debt.  When a player buys or sells
multiple stocks at the same time, than the stocks will be bought or sold
consecutively, one at a time; the ownership value will be recalculated
between each stock purchase or sale, but the purchase will be rounded after
all stocks specified to be bought or sold in one group are bought or sold.
At the end of a purchase, the cost or profit from the sale is rounded to
the players disadvantage, except as specified by the preceeding sentence.
When a player buys a stock they pay the cost to the treasury and a stock
will be created in their possesion.  When a player sells a stock they
recieve the cost of the stock from the treasury, and a stock associated
with the specified political party is destroyed.
TSM

Create a rule numbered 532 entitled "Stocks" reading as delimited by SSSS
SSSS
	Stocks are nameless, giftable entitied.  They may only be created
as specified in the rules.
SSSS

	Create a rule numbered 534 entitled "The Ackan Reserve" reading as
delimited by TAR
TAR
	There is a named, unownable, unique entity known as The Ackan
Reserve.  There is a political office with two seats known as Member of the
Ackan Reserve, with a term of four weeks.  There is a functional office
with one seat known as Chair of the  Ackan Reserve.  These three seats are
known collectively as the Board of the Ackan Reserve, or bar.  No player
may hold more than one seat which is part of the bar.

	A player who is on the bar may suggest that the Ackan Reserve
perform an action by informing all players on the bar of the suggestion.
If at least one other player on the bar informs all players on the bar that
they support the suggestion within a week of when it is first made then the
Ackan Reserve will perform the action as soon as it is publicly announced.
It is a duty of the Chair of the Ackan Reserve to announce all such actions
within three days of a second player supporting it.  The only actions which
the Ackan Reserve may take is buying and selling stocks.  When the Ackan
Reserve buys or sells stocks they are created or destroyed in or from the
Reserve's possession without any exchange of A$; this sentence takes
precedence over rule 530.  The Ackan Reserve may not sell so many stocks
that it would own fewer than one stocks.

It is a duty of the Chair of the Ackan Reserve to track the core value and
the stock values for all political parties, and to make these values
available to all players.
It is a duty of the Chair of the Ackan Reserve to announce the cost or
profit, and the number of shares bought whenever a player buys or sells
shares.

{{100 stocks are created in the possession of the Ackan Reserve.}}
{{else...if is appointed Chair of the Ackan Reserve.}}
TAR

	The basic idea is to create a stock market.  I haven't written the
actual rules, but I've figured out the core structure.  The Ackan Reserve
(kept because the stocks need to regulated, and I like the name) controls
the market.  Players buy and sell stocks, whose starting value would
probably be A$40 (for reasons explained later.)  There is no direct fee for
trading, but all values are rounded to the players disadvantage.  The price
of a certificate is split into four pieces, each with an initial value of
10.
	Positivity: Every time a proposal passes, add a tenth of a point
for each player who voted in its favor, each time a proposal fails,
subtract one point for each player who voted against it.  Players have some
control over this, but not a huge amount.  Moderately predictable (some
proposals you can be pretty sure will fail, others you're sure will pass)
	Unity: Each party unity vote add 1/4 of a point, when all members
of a party vote NO, subtract 1/4 of a point.  Again, players can control
this very slightly.  A party could conspire, but not in a serious way.
	Activity: At the end of the day, calculate the total number of
proposals plus CFJ's announced in the day, dividided by the average number
of total proposals+CFJ's.  If it's greater than 1, subtract 1, round to the
nearest tenth, and add that.  If it's less than 1, take the recipricol,
subtract 1, round to the nearest tenth, and subtract it.  This is hard to
predict in the short run, but some periods predictably will have much less
traffic.  This will make christmas a good time to sell stocks.
	Purchases: If P is the price, and S is the number of certificates
which had already been sold before the purchase, then when a player buys
one share the price becomes P/S*(S+1).  When a player buys multiple shares,
the price increases between shares (because otherwise players will just say
"I buy a share.  I buy a share, etc.)  For selling, the process works in
reverse.

	Money is given and taken from the treasury.  Rounding is done at
the end of a purchase, so there is an incentive to make one large purchase
instead ov several small ones.
	The Ackan Reserve also owns a number of shares, called stabilizers,
to prevent the purchases portion from fluxuating too wildly.  Three people
form the Board of the Ackan Reserve.  The Board can buy and sell
stabilizing shares in it using money from the treasury, but shares bought
in this way will not cause the Purchases portion to go up or down.  This
allows the board to decide that a period has been too calm, and spice it up
by cutting the stabilizing shares.  They can also declare a trade halt to
prevent the market from collapsing.  One Board member is the Chair, and is
responsible for keeping track of certificates and the price of a
certificate.
	I'd also like some way for players to either bet against the
market, or sell shares short.  Short selling would be interesting, but I'm
not sure how to do it.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

	Success is the child of audacity.
		-Benjamin Disraeli

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End of acka-research-digest V3 #253
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