Subject: acka-research-digest V2 #225
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest    Wednesday, January 14 1998    Volume 02 : Number 225

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:55:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Malenkai's votes

breadbox wrote:
> In the CFJ 513 TRUE thread, Malenkai made the following votes:
> 
> Proposal 2555: YES
> Proposal 2557: YES
> Proposal 2559: YES
> Proposal 2560: NO
> Proposal 2561: NO
> Proposal 2562: NO
> 
> Proposal 2560's vote would give Malenkai points for anti-voting. None
> of the other votes change his score, and none of these votes alter the
> outcome of any proposals. (Phew!)

Also in the thread where Malenkai is still a player, he loses points for
the forfeited duel. :-o

/dev/joe
Still Vacationing

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:02:06 +0200 (EET)
From: Uri Bruck <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Irony

On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, David Scheidt wrote:

> 
> It seems that some sort of enhanced crisis resolution tools are needed.  I
> amm not sure this is the way to go, though.  Maybe an Ad Hoc Commitee?  

It would be a good choice, but it needs to be that can be appointed by any
one of a number of different Officers. It doesn't really matter whether
it's an Ad Hoc Committe or not, either way the rule has to be pharsed such
as to take inot account the possibility that the identity of a specific
officer can't be determined. I'll give this a shot and RFC

Niccolo Flychuck

 > > rufus
> 
> > 
> > --
> > -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran
> > 
> > 	<[email-masked]>
> > 
> > Ne dubita, cum magna petes, impendere parva
> > Do not hesitate to sacrifice the little things when your goal is great
> > 	-Cato
> > 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of acka-research-digest V2 #224
> ***********************************
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:50:46 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Irony

>It would be a good choice, but it needs to be that can be appointed by any
>one of a number of different Officers. It doesn't really matter whether
>it's an Ad Hoc Committe or not, either way the rule has to be pharsed such
>as to take inot account the possibility that the identity of a specific
>officer can't be determined. I'll give this a shot and RFC
	My objection to an ad hoc committee is that it depends on other
rules and positions.  The emergency powers rule should be as completely
self-contained as possible.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

Ne dubita, cum magna petes, impendere parva
Do not hesitate to sacrifice the little things when your goal is great
	-Cato

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:28:10 -0500
From: [email-masked] (John Bollinger)
Subject: Re:  Acka: Irony

>	I note that now, when, perhaps more than ever we need emergency
>powers, the issue being disputed involves the Speaker, preventing us from
>using them.  What do people think of something that allows anyone to make
>retroactive changes to the rules, avoiding the proposal system, similar to
>the current system, but anyone can use it, and it would only take one
>objection to prevent it?

Need emergency powers?  Ha!  We have been in much worse messes than this
without using emergency powers.  In fact, we have only used emergency
powers once in the entire history of this nomic.  And I think that the
principal reason that we used them even then was to make the harfing as
easy as possible after so many unscrupulous individuals jumped on the
negative trinket loophole (which may or may not have existed).

And to quote a prominent former Ackanomian, "retroactivity is blood in
the water of the paradox sharks."

It is reasonable to consider revamping the emergency powers rule, but I
really don't think I like the suggestion above.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:27:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  Acka: Irony

> 	I note that now, when, perhaps more than ever we need
> emergency powers, the issue being disputed involves the Speaker,
> preventing us from using them.

Not at all. Malenkai and Alfvaen could both declare a State of Crisis,
each in their respective threads. There is no problem here.

However, this situation doesn't warrant it. As ThinMan has pointed
out, we've seen worse. Imagine the Speaker, the President, the
Web-Harfer and the entire Senate on indefinite vacations, effectively
AWOL (and only one Justice, since the Senate never got around to
reporting their confirmation of the second Justice), and the web pages
containing the rules, CFJ archive, etc., having not been updated in
over a month. (And if you've ever looked at the CFJ archive and
wondered why we have a "CFJ 92.9 + 2.718i", it's because the current
Acting CotC had no idea what the last CFJ number was.)

While it's possible for me to imagine a situation where a State of
Crisis could not be enacted, or, more specifically, not in time, I
don't think the likelihood warrants putting something into the rules
about it. I'd prefer dealing with such on a case-by-case basis,
because a) it's entirely possible that it will never be needed, and
b) case-by-case solutions to crises are usually more fun.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:43:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2563 accepted

> Results of Proposal 2563
> 
> 17/20 votes: Quorum achieved
> 14/19 YES votes: Proposal accepted

>> Proposal 2563 - Tue 06 Jan 1998 20:19 EST
>> Romulan invasion
>> Rex Mundi (Gavin Doig)
>> 
>> This is a modest proposal.
>> 
>> Vulcan changes its name to the following double-quote delimited string:
>> "Rule 1 is repealed. "

Can you say "game-thread spaghetti"?

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:43:07 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2563 accepted

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> >> Vulcan changes its name to the following double-quote delimited string:
> >> "Rule 1 is repealed. "
> 
> Can you say "game-thread spaghetti"?
I'll only say it if Malenkai leaves the game again.

- --
Duncan "" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:19:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2576 accepted

I note that in the CFJ 315 TRUE thread, Malenkai is the Guest of Honor
at the Parade for Proposal 2576.

breadbox
this is a weird thread split

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:56:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2579 accepted

> Proposal 2579 - Wed 07 Jan 1998 07:09 EST
> A Quick Malenkai Buster
> Slakko (Duncan Richer)
> 
> This is a Modest Proposal.
> 
> {{Any player who owns more FairPlay Awards than there are games from the
> Games & Contests Suite currently running has committed the crime of Abusing
> A Thoughtful Proposal.}}
> 
> {{If any player owns more than 10 FairPlay Awards, all of eir FairPlay
> Awards are destroyed.}}
> 
> {{The author of this proposal loses 5 points.}}
> 
> {{[I don't deserve any points for this fix.]}}

I find it rather amusing that Slakko's readjustment of his score is
the only thing that keeps this from being yet another Null Proposal.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:38:01 +0000 ()
From: Duncan Richer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2579 accepted

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Brian Raiter wrote:

> > Proposal 2579 - Wed 07 Jan 1998 07:09 EST
> > A Quick Malenkai Buster
> > Slakko (Duncan Richer)
> > 
> > This is a Modest Proposal.
> > 
> > {{Any player who owns more FairPlay Awards than there are games from the
> > Games & Contests Suite currently running has committed the crime of Abusing
> > A Thoughtful Proposal.}}
> > 
> > {{If any player owns more than 10 FairPlay Awards, all of eir FairPlay
> > Awards are destroyed.}}
> > 
> > {{The author of this proposal loses 5 points.}}
> > 
> > {{[I don't deserve any points for this fix.]}}
> 
> I find it rather amusing that Slakko's readjustment of his score is
> the only thing that keeps this from being yet another Null Proposal.

Actually, I was wondering about that.  Does a proposal "generate" an
effect if people gain points from anti-voting on it?  After all, without
the proposal the game state would be different.  
Uh oh.  This creates a potential paradox win situation.  I guess the
interpretation would have to be NO.  Otherwise a PWCFJ would be in the
works.  

- --
Duncan "IHNI, IJLS PWCFJ" Richer aka
Duncan C. Richer - aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother - Now Really Lost!
Queens' College -- PhD, Pure Maths, Graph Theory -- Cambridge University

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:20:38 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Irony

> > 	I note that now, when, perhaps more than ever we need
> > emergency powers, the issue being disputed involves the Speaker,
> > preventing us from using them.

> Not at all. Malenkai and Alfvaen could both declare a State of Crisis,
> each in their respective threads. There is no problem here.

That depends on whether you consider declaring a State of Crisis to be
a Privilege of Office or not.  If it is, then I, as Acting Speaker in
one thread, would not be able to do so.  Rule 362 doesn't use the
Duty/Privilege terminology, though, so whether it would be possible or
not is ambiguous right now.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Mozart:Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
Remember me?  I'm the one who never made any impression on you.  --Brilliant

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:18:01 -0700 (MST)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2563 accepted

> > Proposal 2563 - Tue 06 Jan 1998 20:19 EST
> > Romulan invasion
> > Rex Mundi (Gavin Doig)

> > This is a modest proposal.

> > Vulcan changes its name to the following double-quote delimited string:
> > "Rule 1 is repealed. "

Of course, this doesn't work because the name "Rule 1 is repealed. " is
already taken by the trinket Malenkai created Friday night.  Thus, this
fails and Rex Mundi is the author of yet another Null Proposal.

So actually this is thread-independent, since whether Malenkai succeeded
in leaving or not, e still performed a bunch of actions(including burying
most of eir possessions)before trying to do so, and those all still
occurred.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Mozart:Eine Kleine Nachtmusik
Current Book--Charles Dickens:Great Expectations
Look under the surface, and, if you're really lucky, there's more surface.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:43:22 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2563 accepted

> Of course, this doesn't work because the name "Rule 1 is repealed. " is
> already taken by the trinket Malenkai created Friday night.  Thus, this
> fails and Rex Mundi is the author of yet another Null Proposal.
> 
I will, of course be resubmitting with an anti-Malenkai clause. Should I
submit now, or wait until the whole Malenkai thing blows over?

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:40:54 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: RFC

	Here's my suggestion for an enhanced emergency powers system:
	Create a rule numbered 0, with the following DREAM delimited text:
DREAM
	A player may announce that they believe an Alternatively Defined
Reality by informing all players of this belief (for example by sending it
to the main mailing list.)  An ADR must be a series of facts about the game
state.  The ADR will be "dubious" for one week.  During that week, players
may disbelieve it by informing all players that they are doing so.  If, at
the end of the week, at least one quarter of all players whose status as
playes is unquestioned have disbelieved it, then it will be discarded and
the player who initially believed it will lose 15 points.  However if this
does not happen, then the game state will be changed such that the
statements specified in the ADR are true.  This rule takes precedence over
all other rules.
	(ADR's should consist of statements, such as "no player commited a
crime between date x and date y"  If this passed, then it shall be true
that no player commited a crime during that period.

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

Ne dubita, cum magna petes, impendere parva
Do not hesitate to sacrifice the little things when your goal is great
	-Cato

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:49:58 -1000
From: Rico <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Dream RFC

> 	Here's my suggestion for an enhanced emergency powers system:
> 	Create a rule numbered 0, with the following DREAM delimited text:

I believe it.  :-)

(I also believe that you forgot the second DREAM, therefore all
correspondence from you until we receive a second DREAM should be
considered part of that RFC...) 

- -rico

Where do you want to go, toady?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:59:19 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Dream RFC

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Rico wrote:

> 
> > 	Here's my suggestion for an enhanced emergency powers system:
> > 	Create a rule numbered 0, with the following DREAM delimited text:
> 
> I believe it.  :-)

I have some problems  with it.  1/4 objections?  I should  much, much
rather see one or maybe  two, and  then a hearing.  
I am not sure that this is even required.  The recent Malenkai brewhooha
caused some problems, and would have put a damper on activities untill he
was properly deposed, but did not make play impossible.  A PIA to harf,
but not nearly impossible.  

 > 
> (I also believe that you forgot the second DREAM, therefore all
> correspondence from you until we receive a second DREAM should be
> considered part of that RFC...) 
> 
I thing his .sig is an unambigous mis-speeling of DREAM.

> -rico
> 
> Where do you want to go, toady?
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:06:27 -0500
From: Towsner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Dream RFC

>I have some problems  with it.  1/4 objections?  I should  much, much
>rather see one or maybe  two, and  then a hearing.
	If other people agree, I'll do something along those lines instead.
>I am not sure that this is even required.  The recent Malenkai brewhooha
>caused some problems, and would have put a damper on activities untill he
>was properly deposed, but did not make play impossible.  A PIA to harf,
>but not nearly impossible.
	But it could have been worse.  This was a pain, but the fact
remains that in theory things could go horribly wrong.  Look at Rhiso's
collapse, or Agora's repeal problem (when most of its rules were repealed)
or Pnomic, which vanished along with its speaker.  This would be the final
emergency defense if everything else collapses (note that it doesn't depend
on the public forum)

- --
- -Henry Towsner, AKA else...if, The Fearless Alibi Posesser, Laefu, and Yilran

	<[email-masked]>

Ne dubita, cum magna petes, impendere parva
Do not hesitate to sacrifice the little things when your goal is great
	-Cato

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:55:27 -0000
From: "Gavin M. Doig" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 2563 accepted

> I will, of course be resubmitting with an anti-Malenkai clause. Should I
> submit now, or wait until the whole Malenkai thing blows over?
> 
> Rex Mundi.

I was thinking

Vulcan changes its name to the following double-quote delimited string,
where n is replaced by the lowest cardinal number such that the name is
unique:
"Rule 1 is repealed. #n"

Rex Mundi.

------------------------------

End of acka-research-digest V2 #225
***********************************