Subject: acka-research-digest V2 #136
From: [email-masked] (acka-research-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-research-digest      Friday, August 29 1997      Volume 02 : Number 136

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Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:38:52 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: acka: This is a Grandiose RFC

This is my Hidden Agenda proposal in (almost) proposal ready format. 
There may still be bugs, oversights, et cetera, so I would appreciate it 
if you all can tell me if you would like anything you see to be 
different.

This is a grandiose proposal

Amend rule 931 "Garments" as follows.

Replace the sentence,  "The owner, and only the owner, of a particular 
garment may don that garment if he is currently wearing no garment, or 
remove it if he is currently wearing it."
with the sentence,  "The owner, and only the owner, of a particular 
garment may don that garment if he is currently not wearing that 
garment, or remove it if he is currently wearing it." {{[because it 
really ought to be possible to wear pants and a sweater at the same 
time.]}}

Append the following paragraph:

"Hats, which may also be refered to as headware, are a class of 
garments. A player with an extra head mutation may wear up to two hats. 
Any other player may wear only one hat."

Rename rule 931 "Garments" to "Garments, Especially Hats"

Amend rule 854 "Ackanomic Institute of Genetic Replication: by replacing

"Extra head: Cost -- 50 A$. Each extra head possessed by a player allows 
him to wear one more piece of headwear than he would otherwise be 
allowed. This takes precedence over other rules dealing with any form of 
headwear inasmuch as their restrictions on the number of pieces of 
headwear a player may wear are relaxed for those with extra heads. 
Players with extra heads are encouraged to occasionally get into public 
arguments amongst their heads."

with

"Extra head: Cost -- 50 A$. Players with extra heads are encouraged to 
occasionally get into public arguments amongst their heads. [See also 
rule 931]"

Create a rule numbered 607, entitled "Winning by Agenda" with text 
delimited by THIMBLEBERRY

THIMBLEBERRY
If a player owns at least three Agenda Hats, and it is publicly knowable 
that the condition for each Agenda Hat e owns is true, and that player's 
score is greater than or equal to the sum of the weights of all of the 
agenda hats e owns, then the following will occur:
a) E will receive the title of Agent of KAOS. Any other player with this 
title loses it.
a) The owner of any Nemesis Eggplant with a condition that is the same 
as the condition of an agenda hat owned by the Agent of KAOS must pay 40 
A$ to the Agent of KAOS.
b) All Agenda hats owned by the Agent of KAOS and all Nemesis eggplants 
with corresponding conditions are destroyed
c) The Agent of KAOS achieves a Winning Condition.

Additionally, any player who had owned a Nemesis Eggplant that was 
destroyed as above has eir score reset to -40 rather than 0 when scores 
are reset at the start of the next cycle. [See Rule 666]
THIMBLEBERRY

Amend Rule 666 "End of Cycle" by replacing the text,

"b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs and Right-Handed Grapefruit are 
destroyed."
with,

"b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit, and Agenda Hats 
that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the 
same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are 
destroyed."

Create a rule numbered  430 entitled "Office of the Illuminatus." with 
text delimited by SALAL

SALAL
The Office of the Illuminatus is an optional office.

The duties of the Illuminatus are to collect Agenda Conditions, conduct 
bidding on Nemesis Eggplants, and distrubute and track Agenda Hats, as 
described in this rule.

The Illuminatus shall publicly announce a call for Agenda Condition 
submissions, if, for any reason, no such call has occured during the 
current cycle. The Agenda Condition submission period will last for 
three days after this. 
During this time, any player may submit a number of  Agenda Conditions 
equal to three minus the number of Agenda Hats e owns by sending them to 
the Illuminatus. If a player sends more than this number of Agenda 
Conditions, only the last Agenda Conditions sent will be counted.

Agenda Conditions should be statements that may be true or false 
depending on the game state.

At the end of the 3 days, the Illuminatus must release a list of all 
submitted Agenda Conditions, along with the names of the players who 
submitted each.
If at least 4 players have submitted Agenda Conditions, the Illuminatus 
must initiate a 5 day Nemesis Eggplant bidding period.
During the Nemesis eggplant bidding period, each player who submitted 
Agenda conditions may send a Weight bid corresponding to each submitted 
Agenda Condition to the Illuminatus. Weight bids must be integers 
between (-2 Magic Number / 3) and (Magic Number / 3). If a player does 
not send a weight bid for a particular Agenda Condition, that player 
will be considered to have bid (Magic Number / 3), rounded down, on that 
condition.

At the conclusion of the bidding period, the following occurs:

z) Initially, all conditions are under consideration.

a) The Illuminatus will determine the condition under consideration 
which has the lowest bid. Ties should be broken randomly.

b) A Nemesis Eggplant with that condition is awarded to the lowest 
bidder on that condition who has less than 3 Nemesis Eggplants. Ties 
among lowest bidders should be broken randomly. 

c) That condition is removed from consideration. If any conditions are 
still under consideration, this process repeats, starting with a)

d) The Illuminatus may change the condition associated with any Nemesis 
Eggplant if e believes that it is impossible for a player to achieve 
that condition in normal play or the condition is otherwise unharfy [For 
example, a condition that would be satisfied by spamming the mailing 
list with 1000's of messages, would be technically easy to achieve, but 
a bad idea all around.]  The condition that the Illuminatus chooses 
should be easily attainable. It should also be silly.

e)  Agenda Hats for each condition associated with a newly created 
Nemesis Eggplant with weights equal to the second lowest bid on their 
conditions are created in the hidden state. Any Agenda Hats with a 
condition that was chosen by the Illuminatus according to d) are Silly 
Agenda Hats, and instead are created with a weight of (Magic Number / 4) 
rounded up.

e) Each player who submitted Agenda Conditions receives a number of 
agenda hats equal to the number of conditions e submitted. The Agenda 
Hats must be distruted randomly among these players, except that no 
player shall receive an Agenda Hat with a condition that e authored or 
that is the same as that of a Nemesis Eggplant e owns.

f) The Illuminatus must publicly announce the owners and conditions for 
each Nemesis Eggplant created, and the weights and conditions for each 
Agenda Hat created. The Illuminatus must privately notify each player 
who received Agenda Hats as to the conditions of each Agenda Hat that 
player received.

It is also a duty of the Illuminatus to check that the correct condition 
is being revealed when a player makes an Agenda Hat visible.

It is a priviledge of the Illuminatus that e acheives a Winning 
Condition if it is publicly knowable that e has a score that is greater 
than 5/6 times the Magic Number.
SALAL

Create a rule numbered 671 entitled Nemesis Eggplants and Agenda Hats, 
with text delimited by RED-FLOWERING CURRENT

RED-FLOWERING CURRENT
Nemesis Eggplants are ownable Entities. Each Nemesis Eggplant has a 
condition associated with it.

Agenda Hats are ownable Headwear. Each Agenda Hat has a condition and a 
weight (which must be an integer,) associated with it. They may be 
either visible or hidden, (but not both.) The owner of a hidden Agenda 
Hat may make it visible by publicly posting the condition associated 
with it. Hidden Agenda Hats are non-tradable, and may not be worn. The 
author of an Agenda Hat's condition may publicly post a description of 
that Agenda Hat.
RED-FLOWERING CURRENT

------------------------------

Date: 29 Aug 1997 08:40:59 -0500
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: acka: This is a Grandiose RFC

**Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]> writes:

> Create a rule numbered 607, entitled "Winning by Agenda" with text 
> delimited by THIMBLEBERRY
> 
> THIMBLEBERRY
> If a player owns at least three Agenda Hats, and it is publicly knowable 
> that the condition for each Agenda Hat e owns is true, and that player's 
> score is greater than or equal to the sum of the weights of all of the 
> agenda hats e owns, then the following will occur:
> a) E will receive the title of Agent of KAOS. Any other player with this 
> title loses it.
> a) The owner of any Nemesis Eggplant with a condition that is the same 
> as the condition of an agenda hat owned by the Agent of KAOS must pay 40 
> A$ to the Agent of KAOS.
> b) All Agenda hats owned by the Agent of KAOS and all Nemesis eggplants 
> with corresponding conditions are destroyed
> c) The Agent of KAOS achieves a Winning Condition.
> 
> Additionally, any player who had owned a Nemesis Eggplant that was 
> destroyed as above has eir score reset to -40 rather than 0 when scores 
> are reset at the start of the next cycle. [See Rule 666]
> THIMBLEBERRY

	I'd add "This rule takes precedence over Rules regarding
resetting of scores at the end of a Cycle", just to avoid possible
conflicts.  [Yes, you could simply add "This rule takes precedence over
Rule 666", but I disklike absolute references to other Rules as it adds
to the number of Ammendments required when renumbering.]

> RED-FLOWERING CURRENT
> Nemesis Eggplants are ownable Entities. Each Nemesis Eggplant has a 
> condition associated with it.

	Was "condition" defined anywhere?  Maybe I missed it.  If not, it
should be defined here.

- -- 
Archie Leach <[email-masked]>
PGP Fingerprint: 
             BC AB 28 19 A6 A4 FF 5B  CA 4D B4 03 3A A7 F4 5C

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:55:12 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: acka: This is a Grandiose RFC

> This is my Hidden Agenda proposal in (almost) proposal ready format. 
> There may still be bugs, oversights, et cetera, so I would appreciate it 
> if you all can tell me if you would like anything you see to be 
> different.

Okay.  Since I never really understood your gist here on previous RFC's,
most of the comments will really be questions to make sure I understand the
process.

> This is a grandiose proposal

> Amend rule 931 "Garments" as follows.

> Replace the sentence,  "The owner, and only the owner, of a particular 
> garment may don that garment if he is currently wearing no garment, or 
> remove it if he is currently wearing it."
> with the sentence,  "The owner, and only the owner, of a particular 
> garment may don that garment if he is currently not wearing that 
> garment, or remove it if he is currently wearing it." {{[because it 
> really ought to be possible to wear pants and a sweater at the same 
> time.]}}

What you need is to distinguish Pants, Sweaters, and Hats, and have it so
that a person can only wear one of each type at a time.  But that might be
a bit too much complexity for this rule, especially since there's only one
type of Pants and one type of Sweater right now.  :-)

> Append the following paragraph:

> "Hats, which may also be refered to as headware, are a class of 
> garments. A player with an extra head mutation may wear up to two hats. 
> Any other player may wear only one hat."

I think that how many hats one may wear should depend on how many heads one
has.  One can theoretically have four heads, and then one should be able to
wear four hats.

> Rename rule 931 "Garments" to "Garments, Especially Hats"

> Amend rule 854 "Ackanomic Institute of Genetic Replication: by replacing

> "Extra head: Cost -- 50 A$. Each extra head possessed by a player allows 
> him to wear one more piece of headwear than he would otherwise be 
> allowed. This takes precedence over other rules dealing with any form of 
> headwear inasmuch as their restrictions on the number of pieces of 
> headwear a player may wear are relaxed for those with extra heads. 
> Players with extra heads are encouraged to occasionally get into public 
> arguments amongst their heads."

> with

> "Extra head: Cost -- 50 A$. Players with extra heads are encouraged to 
> occasionally get into public arguments amongst their heads. [See also 
> rule 931]"

> Create a rule numbered 607, entitled "Winning by Agenda" with text 
> delimited by THIMBLEBERRY

> THIMBLEBERRY
> If a player owns at least three Agenda Hats, and it is publicly knowable 
> that the condition for each Agenda Hat e owns is true, and that player's 
> score is greater than or equal to the sum of the weights of all of the 
> agenda hats e owns, then the following will occur:

I still like the idea that all three conditions need not be satisfied at
once.  There should be the option for a player to reveal a condition having
been satisfied earlier(which would, say, turn their Agenda Hat into an
Agenda Top Hat or something...surely someone can think of something
better), although this might be disadvantageous since people would know
that you'd satisfied one of the conditions.

> a) E will receive the title of Agent of KAOS. Any other player with this 
> title loses it.
> a) The owner of any Nemesis Eggplant with a condition that is the same 
> as the condition of an agenda hat owned by the Agent of KAOS must pay 40 
> A$ to the Agent of KAOS.

Some relettering should be done here...

> b) All Agenda hats owned by the Agent of KAOS and all Nemesis eggplants 
> with corresponding conditions are destroyed
> c) The Agent of KAOS achieves a Winning Condition.

Can't you just say "wins the current Cycle"?

> Additionally, any player who had owned a Nemesis Eggplant that was 
> destroyed as above has eir score reset to -40 rather than 0 when scores 
> are reset at the start of the next cycle. [See Rule 666]
> THIMBLEBERRY

> Amend Rule 666 "End of Cycle" by replacing the text,

> "b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs and Right-Handed Grapefruit are 
> destroyed."
> with,

> "b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit, and Agenda Hats 
> that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the 
> same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are 
> destroyed."

> Create a rule numbered  430 entitled "Office of the Illuminatus." with 
> text delimited by SALAL

> SALAL
> The Office of the Illuminatus is an optional office.

> The duties of the Illuminatus are to collect Agenda Conditions, conduct 
> bidding on Nemesis Eggplants, and distrubute and track Agenda Hats, as 
> described in this rule.

> The Illuminatus shall publicly announce a call for Agenda Condition 
> submissions, if, for any reason, no such call has occured during the 
> current cycle. The Agenda Condition submission period will last for 
> three days after this. 

Would this require the Illuminatus to announce the call as soon as possible
into a cycle with no AC submissions, or is it more of a 'may'?

> During this time, any player may submit a number of  Agenda Conditions 
> equal to three minus the number of Agenda Hats e owns by sending them to 
> the Illuminatus. If a player sends more than this number of Agenda 
> Conditions, only the last Agenda Conditions sent will be counted.

What happens the first time through, if nobody owns Agenda Hats?  Or is
that covered elsewhere?  And can a player submit _fewer_ AC's than
permissible?

> Agenda Conditions should be statements that may be true or false 
> depending on the game state.

I wonder at the wording here...maybe 'statements whose truth or falsehood
depends on the game state'.  Or am I just being picky?

> At the end of the 3 days, the Illuminatus must release a list of all 
> submitted Agenda Conditions, along with the names of the players who 
> submitted each.
> If at least 4 players have submitted Agenda Conditions, the Illuminatus 
> must initiate a 5 day Nemesis Eggplant bidding period.
> During the Nemesis eggplant bidding period, each player who submitted 
> Agenda conditions may send a Weight bid corresponding to each submitted 
> Agenda Condition to the Illuminatus.

Only on the AC's they themselves submitted, or not?

> Weight bids must be integers 
> between (-2 Magic Number / 3) and (Magic Number / 3). If a player does 
> not send a weight bid for a particular Agenda Condition, that player 
> will be considered to have bid (Magic Number / 3), rounded down, on that 
> condition.

And this would allow negative weights?

> At the conclusion of the bidding period, the following occurs:
> 
> z) Initially, all conditions are under consideration.
> 
> a) The Illuminatus will determine the condition under consideration 
> which has the lowest bid. Ties should be broken randomly.
> 
> b) A Nemesis Eggplant with that condition is awarded to the lowest 
> bidder on that condition who has less than 3 Nemesis Eggplants. Ties 
> among lowest bidders should be broken randomly. 
> 
> c) That condition is removed from consideration. If any conditions are 
> still under consideration, this process repeats, starting with a)

So, essentially, each player gets to try to assign a weight to each
condition, and whoever assigns the lowest weight gets the NE associated
with it, and hence _cannot_ get that condition...and makes it
correspondingly easier for the person who get that condition to get the
points required.  I think I finally understand how this is supposed to
work.  It always eluded me on earlier RFC's.

> d) The Illuminatus may change the condition associated with any Nemesis 
> Eggplant if e believes that it is impossible for a player to achieve 
> that condition in normal play or the condition is otherwise unharfy [For 
> example, a condition that would be satisfied by spamming the mailing 
> list with 1000's of messages, would be technically easy to achieve, but 
> a bad idea all around.]  The condition that the Illuminatus chooses 
> should be easily attainable. It should also be silly.

> e)  Agenda Hats for each condition associated with a newly created 
> Nemesis Eggplant with weights equal to the second lowest bid on their 
> conditions are created in the hidden state. Any Agenda Hats with a 
> condition that was chosen by the Illuminatus according to d) are Silly 
> Agenda Hats, and instead are created with a weight of (Magic Number / 4) 
> rounded up.

_Second_ lowest bid?  Did I miss something?  And that first sentence seems
to be a bit of a run-on...what it boils down to, if I'm not mistaken, is
that a NE is created with the second-lowest bid's weight, and then a hidden
Agenda Hat is created to correspond to it.

> e) Each player who submitted Agenda Conditions receives a number of 
> agenda hats equal to the number of conditions e submitted. The Agenda 
> Hats must be distruted randomly among these players, except that no 
> player shall receive an Agenda Hat with a condition that e authored or 
> that is the same as that of a Nemesis Eggplant e owns.

> f) The Illuminatus must publicly announce the owners and conditions for 
> each Nemesis Eggplant created, and the weights and conditions for each 
> Agenda Hat created. The Illuminatus must privately notify each player 
> who received Agenda Hats as to the conditions of each Agenda Hat that 
> player received.

So the conditions are publicly announced, but not who specifically gets the
associated Hats, only the NE's?

> It is also a duty of the Illuminatus to check that the correct condition 
> is being revealed when a player makes an Agenda Hat visible.
 
> It is a priviledge of the Illuminatus that e acheives a Winning 
> Condition if it is publicly knowable that e has a score that is greater 
> than 5/6 times the Magic Number.

Since e won't have any Hats.  Not a bad tradeoff.

> SALAL

> Create a rule numbered 671 entitled Nemesis Eggplants and Agenda Hats, 
> with text delimited by RED-FLOWERING CURRENT
> 
> RED-FLOWERING CURRENT
> Nemesis Eggplants are ownable Entities. Each Nemesis Eggplant has a 
> condition associated with it.
> 
> Agenda Hats are ownable Headwear. Each Agenda Hat has a condition and a 
> weight (which must be an integer,) associated with it. They may be 
> either visible or hidden, (but not both.) The owner of a hidden Agenda 
> Hat may make it visible by publicly posting the condition associated 
> with it. Hidden Agenda Hats are non-tradable, and may not be worn. The 
> author of an Agenda Hat's condition may publicly post a description of 
> that Agenda Hat.
> RED-FLOWERING CURRENT

Maybe there should be some mention of the link between AH's and NE's in the
Rule as well.  Also, your comma-parenthesis punctuation is atrocious. :-)

I think that's all I had to say on the topic...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Paul Simon:The Rhythm of The Saints
Current Book--Terence M. Green:Shadow of Ashland
You have no idea how difficult it is to be predictably subtle.  --plord

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 20:44:39 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka: This is a Grandiose RFC

> If at least 4 players have submitted Agenda Conditions, the Illuminatus
> must initiate a 5 day Nemesis Eggplant bidding period.

I would prefer the standard 3 or 7 day period, unless there is a 
compelling reason for 5 days.  Also, I would prefer if the auction
stuff could somehow be worked into that gruesome auction rule, me
being a reuse fanatic.  Of course, I did not look at it too carefully,
so mabye it is specific to this.

I realise this has changed a bit from the original idea (prolly for
the better, I might add), but some things I liked from the original
idea that seem to be absent are: Truly hidden adjendas.  It would be
cool if whoeveritisthatitharfingthisthing could add some totally
hidden adjendas at the setup point.  There was also something I liked
about the adjenda ideas before, where you try to get another player to
change the game state in a certain way, and that fulfills your HA task.
If that could be worked in, it would be cool.

Finally, I really did not analyize this, I have to little time, so
don't feel bad if I point things out when it is in the proposal queue,
because I always read them a bit closer :)

Malenkai

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End of acka-research-digest V2 #136
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