Subject: Ackanomic Research Digest V2 #97
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Research Digest)
To: acka-research-digest

Ackanomic Research Digest   Wednesday, June 25 1997   Volume 02 : Number 097

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:24:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Big RFC: Entity Locations

This one certainly took me several hours of groveling over the Ruleset to
put together, but I'd like to make sure I haven't done anything really
stupid here.

Mainly what I'm trying to do is make sure that each ownable entity, at
least, has a defined location.  The meat of this would be the new rule
500.4, which defines the location of owned entities depending on whether
they're "portable" or "static"; the rest is just defining which entities
are in which category.  I've also done a few other related things, like
making a few entities unownable(which were only nontradeable, by default).

Something I might want to move into another proposal is some changes to the
Museum and Treasure rules, which define entities in the Museum and buried
in Treasures as owned by entities--the Museum in the first case, and a new
class of "Treasure-entities" in the second case.  I don't believe it will
change in any material way the way these things work, but it might make
some of the language simpler.

I would particularly like Niccolo Flychuck to make sure I haven't done
anything really abominable in the small segment where I try to exclude
Party Chess Pieces' locations from 500.4.

I'll let the rest of it(hopefully)speak for itself.

Entity Locations

Create a new rule, numbered 500.4, named "Entity Locations", with text as
follows(delimited by SHAMROCK):

SHAMROCK

Any ownable entity is either portable or static.  An ownable entity is
Static unless defined otherwise.

A portable entity, if owned, is considered to be in the same location as
the entity which owns it.  If it is unowned, then it is Somewhere Else.

A static entity, if owned, is considered to be in the Home Location of the
entity which owns it, if such a location is defined; otherwise it is
Somewhere Else.  If it is unowned, then it is Somewhere Else.  This rule
does not apply to Locations themselves, as defined by Rule 835.

A player's Home Location is eir home.

SHAMROCK

In Rule 505, "Treasury and AckaDollars", replace "AckaDollars are gift
entities" with "AckaDollars are portable gift entities".

Amend Rule 506, "Trinkets", by adding the following paragraph(delimited by
PARTICLE)before the last(bracketed)paragraph:

PARTICLE

A player may define a trinket as being either portable or static as part of
its description.  If it is not unambiguously defined as being either
portable or static, then it is portable if its value is under A$100, and
static if its value is A$100 or greater.

PARTICLE

In Rule 507, "PF Bonds", replace "PF Bonds are nameless, tradeable
entities" with "PF Bonds are nameless, portable, tradeable entities".

In Rule 517, "Contracts", replace "Contracts are named, tradeable entities"
with "Contracts are named, tradeable, portable entities".  {{[Or should
they be static? ]}}

Amend Rule 595, "Gadgets", by replacing the existing text of Clause iii)

{{[
(iii) Gadgets are entities. A Gadget is tradeable unless its Blueprint
specifies otherwise. A Blueprint has the authority to specify that
Gadgets made from it are nontradeable or gift.
]}}

with the following text(delimited by SPECK):

SPECK

(iii) Gadgets are entities. A Gadget is tradeable and portable unless
its Blueprint specifies otherwise. A Blueprint has the authority to
specify that Gadgets made from it are nontradeable or gift, or static.

SPECK

In Rule 315, "Tammany", replace "Tammany is a unique entity" with "Tammany
is a unique, unownable entity".  {{[This defaults to nontradeable, but I
think Tammany should be unownable.]}}

In Rule 317, "Bonus Votes", replace "Bonus Votes are tradeable entities"
with "Bonus Votes are portable, tradeable entities".

In Rule 423, "Map-Harfer", replace "the locations of all entities" with
"the locations of all unownable entities".  {{[The locations of ownable
entities will depend on their owners, so should be easily deducible
from the Player/Entity Page without having to maintain a separate
list.  This will also remove any vestige of the Map-Harfer's
responsibility for Museum entities.]}}

In Rule 603, "Points", replace "Points are entities" with "Points are
ownable, portable entities".  {{[There is no real reason to consider Points
to have a location, actually, but if they are ownable, they must.  This may
make things a bit nonintuitive...I would say that a Player carries eir
points around with em...]}}

In Rule 607, "Winning by Finding the Crystal Chalice", replace the
sentence "The Keys That Unlock the Vault Containing The Crystal Chalice
and the Golden Goblets are Tradable, all other Entities defined by this
Rule are non-Tradable." with "The Keys That Unlock the Vault Containing
The Crystal Chalice and the Golden Goblets are Tradeable and Porable;
all other Entities defined by this Rule are non-Tradeable and Static."

In Rule 620, "The Chartreuse Goose", replace "Let a unique, nontradeable,
non-mimsy entity" with "Let a unique, nontradeable, portable, non-mimsy
entity".  {{[Should the Goose be static?]}}

In Rule 668, "Eggs and Fruit", replace "A Chartreuse Goose Egg is a
nameless, tradeable entity" with "A Chartreuse Goose Egg is a nameless,
portable, tradeable entity".  Also, replace "The Right-Handed Grapefruit is
a unique, nontradeable entity" with "The Right-Handed Grapefruit is a
unique, portable, notradeable entity", and replace "Right-Handed Grapefruit
Juice(a tradeable, potable entity)" with "Right-Handed Grapefruit Juice(a
tradeable, portable, frinkable entity)".  {{[To eliminate any possible
confusion with 'potable' and 'portable'...]}}

In Rule 669, "Marks of the Champion", add the sentence "Badges of Glory are
portable entities." to the end of the first paragraph.

In Rule 670, "Commission d'Arts", add the sentence "Silver Moons are
nontradeable, static entities." to the end of section 9).

In Rule 835, "Locations", section 4), append the sentence "Common
Locations are unownable."  {{[Just another thing I think should be
unownable and not just nontradeable]}}

In Rule 839, "Buildings", replace "A building is a class of entity in
Ackanomic which can be of six sizes:" with "Buildings are a class of
entitites in Ackanomic.  Buildings are Locations, which can be of six
sizes:"  {{[Another minor fixup]}}

In Rule 841, "Towers", add the sentence "Towers are Locations." after the
first sentence.  {{[ I'm not sure if this is true.  Are Towers Locations?
I think they are, or should be; would this create any problems? ]}}

In Rule 844, "Land Baroncy", append the sentence "Kaas of land are
Locations." to the first paragraph.

In Rule 850, "Museum", replace "Items on display in the Museum are not
considered in the Treasury." with "Items on display in the Museum are
considered to be owned by the Museum.  For this purpose the Museum is
considered its own Home Location."

In Rule 901, "The Magic Potato", replace "a unique entity known as the
Magic Potato" with "a unique portable entity known as the Magic Potato".
Also, replace "Great Tuba of Ackanomic, a unique entity" with "Great Tuba
of Ackanomic, a unique static entity".  {{[I can see carrying around a
Potato with you, but a _Tuba_?  Only in a Parade.]}}

In Rule 903, "Gumball", replace "unique entity" with "unique unownable
entity".

In Rule 904, "The Anti-Gumball", replace "unique entity" with "unique
unownable entity".

In Rule 905, "The Blue Cross", replace "nameless, nontradeable entities"
with "nameless, portable, nontradeable entities".

In Rule 907, "Bronze Torch", replace "metallic entities" with
"nontradeable, static, metallic entities".

In Rule 909, "Steel Flea", replace "Phoebe is a unique entity" with "Phoebe
is a unique, unownable entity".  Also, replace "Phoebe's matchbox is a
unique entity." with "Phoebe's matchbox is a unique, ownable, static entity.
Phoebe is always in the same Location as her matchbox."

In Rule 910, "The Ackanomicon", append the sentence "The Ackanomicon is a
unique, unownable entity." to the second paragraph.

In Rule 911, "The Great Trombone of Ackanomia", append the sentence "The
Great Trombone is static." to the first paragraph.

In Rule 915, "Prosthetic Foreheads", replace "Prosthetic Foreheads are
tradeable entities" with "Prosthetic Foreheads are tradeable, portable
entities".

Append the following text(delimited by ELEPHANT)to Rule 917, "Rocks,
Walls, and Facial Hair":

ELEPHANT

Rocks to Wind A String Around and Santa's Beards are portable.  Walls of
Trombones are static.

ELEPHANT

In Rule 923, "The Amber Banana", replace "a unique, mimsy, nontradeable
entity" with "a unique, mimsy, static, nontradeable entity".  Also, replace
"Amber Bananas are tradeable entities" with "Amber Bananas are portable,
tradeable entities", and replace "The Amber Banana Tree Seed is a unique,
tradeable entity" with "The Amber Banana Tree Seed is a unique, portable,
tradeable entity".

In Rule 925, "The Press", replace "Newspapers are named, tradeable
entities" with "Newspapers are named, static, tradeable entities".

In Rule 927, "Silly Vacation Hat", append the sentence "Silly Vacation Hats
are ownable, portable entities." to the first paragraph.

In Rule 929, "Baaa", replace "The unique entity" with "The
unique, ownable, static entity".  Also, replace "Wool sweaters are
tradeable, mimsy entities" with "Wool Sweaters are tradeable, mimsy
Garments".

In Rule 931, "Garments", append the sentence "Garments are portable if worn
and static if unworn."

In Rule 935, "Processing Chips", replace "The Tradeable Entities" with
"Tradeable, portable entities"

In Rule 942, "The Widget of Yendor", replace "It is a unique, Tradeable
entity" with "It is a unique, Tradeable, portable entity".

In Rule 945, "The Cabinet", replace "a unique, nontradeable entity" with "a
unique, nontradeable, static entity".

In Rule 1001, "Institutions", replace "a class of entities called
Institutions" with "a class of unownable entities called Institutions".

In Rule 1044, "Swingpoints", replace "Swingpoints are Tradable" with
"Swingpoints are Tradeable and portable".

In Rule 1117, "Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Side Effects", replace "Doses of
psi-enhancer are non-tradeable entities" with "Doses of psi-enhancer are
portable, non-tradeable entities".

In Rule 1209, "The Machine That Goes *ping*", replace "There exists the
unique entity" with "There exists the unique unownable entity"

{{[ If the Museum can own things, why not Treasures? ]}}
Amend Rule 1217,"Buried Treasure!", as follows:

Replace the second paragraph

{{[ Immediately after this announcement, the player ceases to own the
Treasure; it is considered "buried" or "hidden", and is unowned.  Buried
Treasure is not considered part of the Treasury. ]}}

with the following text(delimited by DEVO):

DEVO

Immediately after this announcement, a named, unownable entity called
"Treasure N"(where N is the smaller positive integer greater than the
number of any Treasure that has yet been buried)is created.  The entities
being "buried" as this Treasure are then transferred to the Treasure entity
just created.  Treasures are considered Locations, and the entities they
own are considered "buried", "hidden" or "contained" in that Treasure, and
may also be considered "Treasure".

DEVO

Replace the 2nd sentence of the 5th paragraph
{{[ This action destroys the map, and the player who achieved the
conditions receives the Treasure, and thus becomes the owner of its
constituent entities (which are no longer considered "Treasure"). ]}}
with "All entities owned by the Treasure entity are transferred to the
player who achieved the conditions.  This action destroys the map and
the Treasure entity."

Finally, replace the final sentence {{[If a Treasure ever contains 0 or
less buried entities, the Map for that Treasure is destroyed. ]}} with
"If a Treasure ever contains 0 or fewer buried entities, that Treasure and
its Map are destroyed."

{{ For each existing Treasure Map, create a Treasure entity with a name
corresponding to its unofficially-assigned number, and place all of the
items buried in that Treasure in the possession of the corresponding
Treasure-entity. }}
In Rule 1230.1, "Swingers Play Around I - the board and the playing
pieces", replace the current text of section 7. with  "Party Chess
Pieces are ownable, portable entities, whose locations are defined by
Rules in this suite; this takes precedence over Rule 500.4."
{{[ Really not sure about this one; if a Party Chess Expert would let
me know if this would work or not, I'd be obliged. ]}}

In Rule 1240.1, "Definition of Otzma Cards", replace "Otzma Cards are
tradable" with "Otzma Cards are portable and tradeable".

In Rule 1240.15, "Otzma Card of type Art Thief", replace "(other than a
player)contained in the Museum" with "owned by the Museum".  {{[ Just
to be more consistent with the Museum being able to own entities... ]}}

In Rule 1250.2, "Trophies", replace "A class of non-Tradeable entities"
with "A class of static, non-Tradeable entities".

In Rule 1317, "Codex of Kra", replace "unique and owned by no player" with
"unique and unownable".

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Song In My Head--Devo:We're Through Being Cool
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
Thit tagline is not self-referential because "thit" is not a word.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:58:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

> A static entity, if owned, is considered to be in the Home Location of the
> entity which owns it, if such a location is defined; otherwise it is
> Somewhere Else.  If it is unowned, then it is Somewhere Else.  This rule
> does not apply to Locations themselves, as defined by Rule 835.
	How 'bout "If it is unowned, then it is in its own Home
Location, if the rules define one for it; otherwise it is Somewhere
Else."

> In Rule 603, "Points", replace "Points are entities" with "Points are
> ownable, portable entities".  {{[There is no real reason to consider Points
> to have a location, actually, but if they are ownable, they must.  This may
> make things a bit nonintuitive...I would say that a Player carries eir
> points around with em...]}}
	I was going to suggest an additional class of entity, the
abstract kind, but there's no need, really, and I like the new
concreteness.

> In Rule 607, "Winning by Finding the Crystal Chalice", replace the [...]
> The Crystal Chalice and the Golden Goblets are Tradeable and Porable;
	Spelling mistake.                                        ^^

> In Rule 620, "The Chartreuse Goose", replace "Let a unique, nontradeable,
> non-mimsy entity" with "Let a unique, nontradeable, portable, non-mimsy
> entity".  {{[Should the Goose be static?]}}
	No, it should definitely follow you around and chew on your
coattails.

> In Rule 670, "Commission d'Arts", add the sentence "Silver Moons are
> nontradeable, static entities." to the end of section 9).
	Hmm.  Memo to myself.  Maybe we should make a class of
entities called "Awards" that are like this by default.  Then I could
delete all rules containing the word "Award" from my ruleset and not
be missing anything.
	Actually the Awards should be in a Rule Suite.

> In Rule 835, "Locations", section 4), append the sentence "Common
> Locations are unownable."  {{[Just another thing I think should be
> unownable and not just nontradeable]}}
	I think they should be tradeable.

> In Rule 839, "Buildings", replace "A building is a class of entity in
> Ackanomic which can be of six sizes:" with "Buildings are a class of
> entitites in Ackanomic.  Buildings are Locations, which can be of six
> sizes:"  {{[Another minor fixup]}}
	I think it's fine for a kaa to be a different location from
the Building that occupies it, but maybe there should be something
like "A player is said to be 'on' a certain kaa if his or her Location
is either the kaa itself or some Building or Tower that occupies that
kaa."

> In Rule 909, "Steel Flea", replace "Phoebe is a unique entity" with "Phoebe
> is a unique, unownable entity".  Also, replace "Phoebe's matchbox is a
> unique entity." with "Phoebe's matchbox is a unique, ownable, static entity.
> Phoebe is always in the same Location as her matchbox."
	I'm not too familiar with R909 but I don't think R500.4 defers
authority on this one (it really should though.)

> In Rule 942, "The Widget of Yendor", replace "It is a unique, Tradeable
> entity" with "It is a unique, Tradeable, portable entity".
	I think it should be portable when tweaked and static when
frobbed; this gives it the nice quality of teleporting wherever you
are wen you tweak it.  'Course I guess that's how garments work, too.
	Perhaps we need a rule like: "An attempt to do something [such
as wear a Garment that isn't with you at the moment] that would cause
an entity to change Location fails.  As an exception, players may move
from place to place as described in other rules."  But then you'd have
problems trading static entities.  I think that'd be neat.

> with the following text(delimited by DEVO):
	Devo.  Devo.  Wasn't there an 80's band called Devo?  That
wore red hats?

> Immediately after this announcement, a named, unownable entity called
> "Treasure N"(where N is the smaller positive integer greater than the
	Call them Treasure Chests.  Better image.
	You might also consider making them Locations, and (as the
Museum) each one its own Home Location.  This gives the most intuitive
effect.

> "If a Treasure ever contains 0 or fewer buried entities, that Treasure and
	You take after me.          ^^^^^ Malenkai won't like that.  :o)

> In Rule 1230.1, "Swingers Play Around I - the board and the playing
> pieces", replace the current text of section 7. with  "Party Chess
> Pieces are ownable, portable entities, whose locations are defined by
> Rules in this suite; this takes precedence over Rule 500.4."
	Again, they shouldn't have to take precedence; R500.4 should
defer.  The Party Chess rules do not define pieces' locations on the
board, but rather their "positions" which makes for a lot less
jargon in the Chess rules.  Other than that I couldn't tell ya.

- -- 
Mohammed
A friendly romantic glamorous American will meet a wrestler in a game of
football in Juneau.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:34:01 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

> Are Towers Locations?

No.  They are buildings or attached to buildings.

> Immediately after this announcement, a named, unownable entity called
> "Treasure N"(where N is the smaller positive integer greater than the
> number of any Treasure that has yet been buried)is created. 

Not even proposals require sequential numbering (this requirement was
removed because it was a pain in the butt), and CFJ numbering has been
unregulated since the beginning of time.  What is the value added to
formalizing the numbering of treasures?  We've done fine without it up
to now, with both CFJs and treasures.   Personally, I do not like the
idea of treasures "owning" things in the first place either, it makes
no sense linguistically, but I'm not gonna make a big deal about it.
Treasure is "buried", not part of a big object-oriented hierarchy.

Also, and I don't have the quote here, your amendment to "Eggs and Fruit"
will clash with a proposal of mine in the queue, I believe, but I do
not know the number OtToMH.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

> > A static entity, if owned, is considered to be in the Home Location of the
> > entity which owns it, if such a location is defined; otherwise it is
> > Somewhere Else.  If it is unowned, then it is Somewhere Else.  This rule
> > does not apply to Locations themselves, as defined by Rule 835.
> 	How 'bout "If it is unowned, then it is in its own Home
> Location, if the rules define one for it; otherwise it is Somewhere
> Else."

And Locations would have themselves as Home Location?

> > In Rule 603, "Points", replace "Points are entities" with "Points are
> > ownable, portable entities".  {{[There is no real reason to consider Points
> > to have a location, actually, but if they are ownable, they must.  This may
> > make things a bit nonintuitive...I would say that a Player carries eir
> > points around with em...]}}
> 	I was going to suggest an additional class of entity, the
> abstract kind, but there's no need, really, and I like the new
> concreteness.

Maybe one's "points" are actual sharp protrusions on one's Ackabody.  :-)
(And negative points would be sharp indentations...)

> > In Rule 607, "Winning by Finding the Crystal Chalice", replace the [...]
> > The Crystal Chalice and the Golden Goblets are Tradeable and Porable;
> 	Spelling mistake.                                        ^^

Of course.  I really meant Potable.  :-)

> > In Rule 620, "The Chartreuse Goose", replace "Let a unique, nontradeable,
> > non-mimsy entity" with "Let a unique, nontradeable, portable, non-mimsy
> > entity".  {{[Should the Goose be static?]}}
> 	No, it should definitely follow you around and chew on your
> coattails.

Fair enough.

> > In Rule 670, "Commission d'Arts", add the sentence "Silver Moons are
> > nontradeable, static entities." to the end of section 9).
> 	Hmm.  Memo to myself.  Maybe we should make a class of
> entities called "Awards" that are like this by default.  Then I could
> delete all rules containing the word "Award" from my ruleset and not
> be missing anything.
> 	Actually the Awards should be in a Rule Suite.

Silver Moons, Marks of The Champion, Blue Crosses, and Grapefruits?

> > In Rule 835, "Locations", section 4), append the sentence "Common
> > Locations are unownable."  {{[Just another thing I think should be
> > unownable and not just nontradeable]}}
> 	I think they should be tradeable.

...Perhaps.  I keep getting caught by the unintuitive rule that "Player's
home are Common Locations"...but you can't enter them without the permission
of the player.  Maybe they should be a different kind of Location.

> > In Rule 839, "Buildings", replace "A building is a class of entity in
> > Ackanomic which can be of six sizes:" with "Buildings are a class of
> > entitites in Ackanomic.  Buildings are Locations, which can be of six
> > sizes:"  {{[Another minor fixup]}}
> 	I think it's fine for a kaa to be a different location from
> the Building that occupies it, but maybe there should be something
> like "A player is said to be 'on' a certain kaa if his or her Location
> is either the kaa itself or some Building or Tower that occupies that
> kaa."

Not a bad idea either.  However, if one is in the Senate, is one 'on' six
kaas of land at a time?

> > In Rule 909, "Steel Flea", replace "Phoebe is a unique entity" with "Phoebe
> > is a unique, unownable entity".  Also, replace "Phoebe's matchbox is a
> > unique entity." with "Phoebe's matchbox is a unique, ownable, static entity.
> > Phoebe is always in the same Location as her matchbox."
> 	I'm not too familiar with R909 but I don't think R500.4 defers
> authority on this one (it really should though.)

I think this would work.  The Matchbox, as static, would be in the Home
Location of whoever owned it; Phoebe, as unownable, has no location defined
by R500.4...and hopefully unownable entities can have locations defined by
other Rules.  But I'll check.

> > In Rule 942, "The Widget of Yendor", replace "It is a unique, Tradeable
> > entity" with "It is a unique, Tradeable, portable entity".
> 	I think it should be portable when tweaked and static when
> frobbed; this gives it the nice quality of teleporting wherever you
> are wen you tweak it.  'Course I guess that's how garments work, too.

Good idea too.

> 	Perhaps we need a rule like: "An attempt to do something [such
> as wear a Garment that isn't with you at the moment] that would cause
> an entity to change Location fails.  As an exception, players may move
> from place to place as described in other rules."  But then you'd have
> problems trading static entities.  I think that'd be neat.

If we can get Entity Locations down, then we can make some actions depend
on them.  And it might be easier to find certain Treasures, as a result.
:-)  (I don't know if there any extant now, but there certainly have
been...)

> > with the following text(delimited by DEVO):
> 	Devo.  Devo.  Wasn't there an 80's band called Devo?  That
> wore red hats?

I had "We're Through Being Cool" stuck in my head while I was working on
this section.  :-)  Yes, there was.  "Whip It", "Peekaboo", "Are We Not
Men?", etc.

> > Immediately after this announcement, a named, unownable entity called
> > "Treasure N"(where N is the smaller positive integer greater than the
> 	Call them Treasure Chests.  Better image.

That might work...

> 	You might also consider making them Locations, and (as the
> Museum) each one its own Home Location.  This gives the most intuitive
> effect.

As two-star pointed out, this would require them to be put on the Map.

> > "If a Treasure ever contains 0 or fewer buried entities, that Treasure and
> 	You take after me.          ^^^^^ Malenkai won't like that.  :o)

Makes sense to me.  I just think that sometimes "less" is the opposite of
"more", and sometimes it's "fewer".

> > In Rule 1230.1, "Swingers Play Around I - the board and the playing
> > pieces", replace the current text of section 7. with  "Party Chess
> > Pieces are ownable, portable entities, whose locations are defined by
> > Rules in this suite; this takes precedence over Rule 500.4."
> 	Again, they shouldn't have to take precedence; R500.4 should
> defer.  The Party Chess rules do not define pieces' locations on the
> board, but rather their "positions" which makes for a lot less
> jargon in the Chess rules.  Other than that I couldn't tell ya.

I'd just like 500.4 not to mess up Party Chess, which would be presumptuous
of me...

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Timbuk 3:Edge of Allegiance
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
And the needers all insist upon it.  [Racter]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:55:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: Aaron Humphrey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

> > Are Towers Locations?
> 
> No.  They are buildings or attached to buildings.

I kinda thought so.

> > Immediately after this announcement, a named, unownable entity called
> > "Treasure N"(where N is the smaller positive integer greater than the
> > number of any Treasure that has yet been buried)is created. 
> 
> Not even proposals require sequential numbering (this requirement was
> removed because it was a pain in the butt), and CFJ numbering has been
> unregulated since the beginning of time.  What is the value added to
> formalizing the numbering of treasures? We've done fine without it up
> to now, with both CFJs and treasures.

Should I just say, "The number assigned by the unofficial Treasure-Harfer"?
:-)  Or maybe people can assign names to their treasures when they bury
them?  I don't want to make more work for you, I'm really just trying to
streamline the Rules, as I see the direction of increased streamlining.

> Personally, I do not like the
> idea of treasures "owning" things in the first place either, it makes
> no sense linguistically, but I'm not gonna make a big deal about it.
> Treasure is "buried", not part of a big object-oriented hierarchy.

If Rules and Proposals are Entities, then why not Treasures?  It would be
easier than having to insert special language to make entities in
Treasures, which are currently unowned, not go to the Treasury or Somewhere
Else.  Organizations own things, and if two-star's Quark proposal passes
soon we'll have trinkets owning each other(or whatever, I don't pretend to
fully comprehend it yet).

Would you rather the idea of several different unowned-object locations--
Somewhere Else for unique entities, the Treasury for Ackadollars(and, in
theory, whatever else gets put there), Underground for buried treasure...
I still think the Wilds of Ackanomic should fit in here somewhere, for
players who aren't anywhere else...maybe the Museum Collection and the
Evidence Room could fit in there too.

> Also, and I don't have the quote here, your amendment to "Eggs and Fruit"
> will clash with a proposal of mine in the queue, I believe, but I do
> not know the number OtToMH.

Yeah, I vaguely remembered something about that too.  I was going to
double-check that; I was just too tired from going through the entire
Ruleset, and wanted to get some feedback before I tinkered with it any
more.

Thank you for your comments.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.terranet.ab.ca/~aaron/)
Current Album--Timbuk 3:Edge of Allegiance
Current Book--Sheri S. Tepper:King's Blood Four
"The fairy rings have not made/their entrance/yet."--Marg

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 16:09:03 -0700
From: **Alexandre Muniz <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

Aaron Humphrey wrote:

> Maybe one's "points" are actual sharp protrusions on one's Ackabody.  :-)
> (And negative points would be sharp indentations...)

Then any player with pointy ears begins the cycle with two points, but 
loses the pointy ears if eir score goes lower.

,
:-)
'

**two-star

It's all fun and games until-- ow!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:39:03 -0400
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Big RFC: Entity Locations

> Should I just say, "The number assigned by the unofficial Treasure-Harfer"?
> :-) 

Look, its not a big deal :).  I just think it works fine without the harfing
and numbering being regulated, like CFJs.  I do not like N+1 type language
in the rule; its supposed to be more of a romantic, fantastic thing, the
idea of buried treasure.  I also do not see why a treasure cannot be
a collection of entities, as it is now, rather than an entity owning
entities.  The game plays the same, but this one more cog in some big
object-oriented hierarchy vanillization takes some of the romance out
for me.  Thats all.  

As for the "chest" idea, that imposes one sort of metaphor and imagery
on the whole thing that is not there now, yet does not change the way
the game is played.  It constrains the imagination without adding value,
IMO.  Why do it?  Why put all treasures in chests?  As for the entities
not having locations, it does not bother me that treasure entites do
not have  locations; its *buried* treasure, after all.  What is the
location of a long lost treasure?  You don't know.  Underground?
The Wilds of  Ackanomia?  You don't know.  Thats the whole beauty and
romance to me, the locationlessness adds charm.  I do not like, 
"All buried treasure is in the underground location" [imagination
limiting], or "each buried treasure is a location" [doesn't make sense],
or "treasures own their constituent entities" [confusing].
"Treasures are sets of buried or hidden entities, lost somewhere",
works better for me.

Hope that helps explain my POV :-)

Malenkai

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End of Ackanomic Research Digest V2 #97
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