Subject: acka-games-digest V2 #146
From: [email-masked] (acka-games-digest)
To: [email-masked]

acka-games-digest       Monday, August 25 1997       Volume 02 : Number 146

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:17:31 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Results of Round 8

ROUND 8

Moves:

Thin Man (T) - Step M6 to N5
/Dev/Joe (/) - Infect B8
Whiz (X) - Place N10, N9, and O9
Alfvaen (A) - Place J4
Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect G10 - Ruled Invalid
Rex Mundi - (W) - Infect K10 - Ruled Invalid
Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect B10
Two Star - (*) - Place G4

New Grid:

    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S
21  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
20  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
19  . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . 19
18  . . . . . . . ! . . @ . . . . . . . . 18
17  . . . . . . . . . ! / . . . . . . . . 17
16  . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . 16
15  . . . . . A . . / / . . . . . . . . . 15
14  . . . A A . A . . . . . . W . . . . . 14
13  . . . . . . . . @ . W . . . . . . . . 13
12  . . G . . . A . . W . . W W @ . . . . 12
11  . . G . . . @ . . . W . . . @ X X . . 11
10  . . @ . . . . . . . @ . . * . X X . . 10
 9  . . @ . . . @ @ . . T . . * . . @ . .  9
 8  . . @ . . G . @ . @ . . . . . T . . .  8
 7  . . . . . . @ * * . . . . T . . T . .  7
 6  . . . . . . @ * * . . A . . . T . . .  6
 5  . . . . . . . . . * . . @ @ T . . . .  5
 4  . . . . G . . . * * . . A . . . . . .  4
 3  . . . . . G G . * . . . . . . . . . .  3
 2  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
 1  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S

Points:

Two Star received a virus point this round!

		    Cells Points

Two Star (*)	10	1
Alfvaen (A)		 7	0
Guy Fawkes (G)	 6	4
Rex Mundi (W)	 6	0
Thin Man (T)	 6 	1
/dev/joe (/)	 4	0
Whiz (X)		 4	0
Red Barn (!)	 2	0

Okay, hopefully I did this right!  I don't have a program, so I did it by
hand twice to check.  If anyone sees any potential mistakes, let me know.
This marks the beginning of Round Nine.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:19:32 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Results of Round 8

Balsamic Dragon wrote:

> Okay, hopefully I did this right!  I don't have a program, so I did it
> by hand twice to check.  If anyone sees any potential mistakes,
> let me know.  This marks the beginning of Round Nine.
> 
I did it by hand once to check.  I found two differences between my
results and yours, both of which turned out to be errors on my part.
It looks like you deserve congratulations for a fine first round of
virus refereeing.  Congratulations, and thanks for stepping in.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:29:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> Moves:
> Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
 [others deleted]
> New Grid:
> 
>     A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S
> 21  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
> 20  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
> 19  . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . 19
> 18  . . . . . . . ! . . @ . . . . . . . . 18
> 17  . . . . . . . . . ! / . . . . . . . . 17
> 16  . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . 16
> 15  . . . . . A . . / / . . . . . . . . . 15

> Okay, hopefully I did this right!  I don't have a program, so I did it by
> hand twice to check.  If anyone sees any potential mistakes, let me know.

I haven't had time to examine this in great detail but I fail to see how
Red Barn could possibly have ended up with a cell in the J column given
his moves.  Could you please post the diagram before the generation, after
the moves have been applied?  This is not required by the rules but has
usually been done in the past to help check the grid.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:44:13 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> 
> I haven't had time to examine this in great detail but I fail to see how
> Red Barn could possibly have ended up with a cell in the J column given
> his moves.  Could you please post the diagram before the generation,
after
> the moves have been applied?  This is not required by the rules but has
> usually been done in the past to help check the grid.
> 

I will if you feel it is necessary, but I think that your confusion stems
from the fact that I renumbered and lettered the grid so that there would
be a two row space around the whole thing.  So what is the J column now
used to be the H column.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:12:12 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Results of Round 8

/dev/joe wrote:

> I haven't had time to examine this in great detail but I fail to see
> how
> Red Barn could possibly have ended up with a cell in the J column
> given
> his moves.  Could you please post the diagram before the generation,
> after
> the moves have been applied?  This is not required by the rules but
> has
> usually been done in the past to help check the grid.
> 
For /dev/joe and others who may be interested: Balsamic Dragon
relabelled the grid after the generation so that the columns began
with A (left) and the numbers with 1 (bottom).  I believe that she is
within her rights under the rules to do so.  That explains how Red
Barn ended up with a cell in column J.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: 25 Aug 1997 11:16:26 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Results of Round 8

AC>ROUND 8

AC>Moves:

AC>Thin Man (T) - Step M6 to N5
AC>/Dev/Joe (/) - Infect B8
AC>Whiz (X) - Place N10, N9, and O9
AC>Alfvaen (A) - Place J4
AC>Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect G10 - Ruled Invalid
AC>Rex Mundi - (W) - Infect K10 - Ruled Invalid
AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect B10
AC>Two Star - (*) - Place G4

After it was pointed out to me that my move was invalid (I had read my G
as the grid square number) I corrected my move.  Why wasn't my corrected
move applied?
                       I J K L M N O P Q R S
GF                     . . . . . . . . . . 21
                       . . . . . . . . . . . 20
AC>19  . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . 19
AC>18  . . . . . . . ! . . @ . . . . . . . . 18
AC>17  . . . . . . . . . ! / . . . . . . . . 17
AC>16  . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . 16
AC>15  . . . . . A . . / / . . . . . . . . . 15
AC>14  . . . A A . A . . . . . . W . . . . . 14
AC>13  . . . . . . . . @ . W . . . . . . . . 13
AC>12  . . G . . . A . . W . . W W @ . . . . 12
AC>11  . . G . . . @ . . . W . . . @ X X . . 11
AC>10  . . @ . . . . . . . @ . . * . X X . . 10
AC> 9  . . @ . . . @ @ . . T . . * . . @ . .  9
AC> 8  . . @ . . G . @ . @ . . . . . T . . .  8
AC> 7  . . . . . . @ * * . . . . T . . T . .  7
AC> 6  . . . . . . @ * * . . A . . . T . . .  6
AC> 5  . . . . . . . . . * . . @ @ T . . . .  5
AC> 4  . . . . G . . . * * . . A . . . . . .  4
AC> 3  . . . . . G G . * . . . . . . . . . .  3
AC> 2  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
AC> 1  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
AC>    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S

AC>Points:

AC>Two Star received a virus point this round!

AC>		    Cells Points

AC>Two Star (*)	10	1
AC>Alfvaen (A)		 7	0
AC>Guy Fawkes (G)	 6	4
AC>Rex Mundi (W)	 6	0
AC>Thin Man (T)	 6 	1
AC>/dev/joe (/)	 4	0
AC>Whiz (X)		 4	0
AC>Red Barn (!)	 2	0

AC>Okay, hopefully I did this right!  I don't have a program, so I did it by
AC>hand twice to check.  If anyone sees any potential mistakes, let me know.
AC>This marks the beginning of Round Nine.

AC>Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:19:14 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Results of Round 8

Guy Fawkes wrote:

> AC>Thin Man (T) - Step M6 to N5
> AC>/Dev/Joe (/) - Infect B8
> AC>Whiz (X) - Place N10, N9, and O9
> AC>Alfvaen (A) - Place J4
> AC>Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
> AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect G10 - Ruled Invalid
> AC>Rex Mundi - (W) - Infect K10 - Ruled Invalid
> AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect B10
> AC>Two Star - (*) - Place G4
> 
> After it was pointed out to me that my move was invalid (I had read my
> G
> as the grid square number) I corrected my move.  Why wasn't my
> corrected
> move applied?
> 
"Infect B10" was not your corrected move?

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:43:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> Thin Man (T) - Step M6 to N5
> /Dev/Joe (/) - Infect B8
> Whiz (X) - Place N10, N9, and O9
> Alfvaen (A) - Place J4
> Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
> Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect G10 - Ruled Invalid
> Rex Mundi - (W) - Infect K10 - Ruled Invalid
> Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect B10
> Two Star - (*) - Place G4

>     A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S
> 21  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
> 20  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
> 19  . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . 19
> 18  . . . . . . . ! . . @ . . . . . . . . 18
> 17  . . . . . . . . . ! / . . . . . . . . 17
> 16  . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . 16
> 15  . . . . . A . . / / . . . . . . . . . 15
> 14  . . . A A . A . . . . . . W . . . . . 14
> 13  . . . . . . . . @ . W . . . . . . . . 13
> 12  . . G . . . A . . W . . W W @ . . . . 12
> 11  . . G . . . @ . . . W . . . @ X X . . 11
> 10  . . @ . . . . . . . @ . . * . X X . . 10
>  9  . . @ . . . @ @ . . T . . * . . @ . .  9

I get an extra 'T' at J9(the old H8).  It only had three neighbours and
so should still be in existence.  Unless I've screwed up, of course.
Apart from that, everything seems to be in order..

>  8  . . @ . . G . @ . @ . . . . . T . . .  8
>  7  . . . . . . @ * * . . . . T . . T . .  7
>  6  . . . . . . @ * * . . A . . . T . . .  6
>  5  . . . . . . . . . * . . @ @ T . . . .  5
>  4  . . . . G . . . * * . . A . . . . . .  4
>  3  . . . . . G G . * . . . . . . . . . .  3
>  2  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  2
>  1  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  1
>     A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S

> Points:

> Two Star received a virus point this round!
 
> 		    Cells Points

It looks like you used tabs here, but beware of the assumption that
everybody's tabs line up the same.  To me it looks sorta like:
 
> Two Star (*)  10      1
> Alfvaen (A)            7      0
> Guy Fawkes (G)         6      4
> Rex Mundi (W)  6      0
> Thin Man (T)   6      1
> /dev/joe (/)   4      0
> Whiz (X)               4      0
> Red Barn (!)   2 	0

Also, I naturally have ThinMan with 7 cells infected, not that it affects
the scoring...

Once you decide whether I'm right or not, I'll put up the new board on the
web page.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Elton John:Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Current Book--David Brin:Infinity's Shore
Never hit a guy with glasses.  Always use your fists.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:53:40 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> After it was pointed out to me that my move was invalid (I had read my G
> as the grid square number) I corrected my move.  Why wasn't my corrected
> move applied?

I believe it was applied.  The grid's letters and numbers have changed
which may be causing the confusion.  It makes it very hard to show how a
small area is changed without showing the entire board for reference. 
However I think that it was applied because the entire outside, left hand
row on the previous board was clean cells.  You would not have any cells on
the outside row of the current board if it had not been applied. 

It seems that the re-structuring of the grid after each move is becoming
problematic.  Does anyone have any other ideas?  I was thinking of doing a
cartesian coordinate system if that is agreeable to the players.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:26:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> It seems that the re-structuring of the grid after each move is becoming
> problematic.  Does anyone have any other ideas?  I was thinking of doing a
> cartesian coordinate system if that is agreeable to the players.

We didn't have any re-labeling of the grid in the past, that I recall.
I don't have a problem with the relabeling, except that you should say
you've done so when you post the grid to avoid the confusion which ensued
today. :-)  An early draft of the Viruses rules had a specified numbering
system and a defined method for the referee to move the grid, should it
become necessary.  Also, those rules suggested a cartesian coordinate
system, with the initial 10x10 grid lying within 20-29 on one axis and
70-79 on the other, making it take an expansion of 20 grid units in
one or both dimensions in order to get numbers over 99, negative numbers,
or the same numbers appearing on both axes.  However, for whatever reason
I scrapped that and just let the referee decide on a reasonable system.

I fired up my program, updating it for the posted round 7 results and new
moves, and your post of the round 8 results does indeed appear correct
except for a missing T at what is now J9.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:30:25 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> 
> I get an extra 'T' at J9(the old H8).  It only had three neighbours and
> so should still be in existence.  Unless I've screwed up, of course.
> Apart from that, everything seems to be in order..
> 
You are indeed correct.  Oh well, it would have been a lot to ask to get it
perfect the first try!  

Would you please correct accordingly?

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: 25 Aug 1997 12:40:12 CST/CDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: Acka: Results of Round 8

AC>Guy Fawkes wrote:

AC>> AC>Thin Man (T) - Step M6 to N5
AC>> AC>/Dev/Joe (/) - Infect B8
AC>> AC>Whiz (X) - Place N10, N9, and O9
AC>> AC>Alfvaen (A) - Place J4
AC>> AC>Red Barn (!) - Place H18, H16, and F17
AC>> AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect G10 - Ruled Invalid
AC>> AC>Rex Mundi - (W) - Infect K10 - Ruled Invalid
AC>> AC>Guy Fawkes (G) - Infect B10
AC>> AC>Two Star - (*) - Place G4
AC>>
AC>> After it was pointed out to me that my move was invalid (I had read my
AC>> G
AC>> as the grid square number) I corrected my move.  Why wasn't my
AC>> corrected
AC>> move applied?
AC>>
AC>"Infect B10" was not your corrected move?

AC>ThinMan

It was my corrected move.  I examined the grid and thought I saw that
b10 was occupied by an uninfected cell on the new grid.  Now, on a
second examination, I see that that was indeed c10, and once again
misread the grid.  I apologize for the inconvenience.

GF

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:41:23 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> We didn't have any re-labeling of the grid in the past, that I recall.
> I don't have a problem with the relabeling, except that you should say
> you've done so when you post the grid to avoid the confusion which ensued
> today. :-)  

> 
> I fired up my program, updating it for the posted round 7 results and new
> moves, and your post of the round 8 results does indeed appear correct
> except for a missing T at what is now J9.
> 
Yeah, sorry about that Thin Man.  I had it down on my notepad, but for some
reason I didn't transfer it when I sent the e-mail.  I think that this
round proves conclusively that re-numbering is a bad idea.  However, the
20-29, 70-29 thing sounds unreasonably confusing.  Howabout we renumber to
cartesian and just have negative numbers?  In other words, the center of
the board would be (0,0).  Any comments?

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:39:27 -0400
From: [email-masked] (Chuck S Smith)
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

>> It seems that the re-structuring of the grid after each move is
becoming
>> problematic.  Does anyone have any other ideas?  I was thinking of
doing a
>> cartesian coordinate system if that is agreeable to the players.
>
>We didn't have any re-labeling of the grid in the past, that I recall.
>I don't have a problem with the relabeling, except that you should say
>you've done so when you post the grid to avoid the confusion which
ensued
>today. :-)  An early draft of the Viruses rules had a specified
numbering
>system and a defined method for the referee to move the grid, should it
>become necessary.  Also, those rules suggested a cartesian coordinate
>system, with the initial 10x10 grid lying within 20-29 on one axis and
>70-79 on the other, making it take an expansion of 20 grid units in
>one or both dimensions in order to get numbers over 99, negative
numbers,
>or the same numbers appearing on both axes.  However, for whatever
reason
>I scrapped that and just let the referee decide on a reasonable system.

I only like Cartesian systems when I'm doing math!  :-(

Anyway, I think a good system would be where if you needed a new column
on the left you would call it Z and then Y and the next X...etc.  If you
need more along the top, you could label it 99, 98...or you could use
negative numbers if it makes you feel good!  :-)

	--Another great suggestion by,
		Whiz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:25:23 -0400
From: "Vivian Norwood" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> Anyway, I think a good system would be where if you needed a new column
> on the left you would call it Z and then Y and the next X...etc.  If you
> need more along the top, you could label it 99, 98...or you could use
> negative numbers if it makes you feel good!  :-)

Yeah, but seeing as we are already up to 21 on one axis, I think we're
going to run out of letters pretty soon.

Balsamic Dragon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:35:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

> It seems that the re-structuring of the grid after each move is becoming
> problematic.  Does anyone have any other ideas?  I was thinking of doing a
> cartesian coordinate system if that is agreeable to the players.

The previous referee just added new rows and columns as necessary.  The
problem, of course, is negative row numbers and negative column letters
(though 'Z' could conceivably come before 'A').  That might work better for
the nonce, as long as we don't get twenty-seven columns or anything...or
you could introduce other symbols, or lower-case letters(which might be
confusing, though...)

There's actually similar question with the Map, though it hadn't occurred
to me before.  I mean, we must be at the upper left corner of Ackanomic,
since we can't expand beyond Row A and Column 1...  Assuming that Ackanomic
has right-angled corners, of course.

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--The Box:All The Time, All The Time, All The Time...
Current Book--David Brin:Infinity's Shore
When she told me I was average she was just being mean.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 14:55:34 -0400
From: [email-masked] (Chuck S Smith)
Subject: Re: Acka: Results of Round 8

>> Anyway, I think a good system would be where if you needed a new
column
>> on the left you would call it Z and then Y and the next X...etc.  If
you
>> need more along the top, you could label it 99, 98...or you could use
>> negative numbers if it makes you feel good!  :-)

>Yeah, but seeing as we are already up to 21 on one axis, I think we're
>going to run out of letters pretty soon.

You could go ZZ, ZY, ZX... or you could use lowercase instead!

	--More advice from the game extraordinaire,
			Whiz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:34:38 -0600 (MDT)
From: [email-masked] (Aaron V. Humphrey)
Subject: Acka: Lantern

As Stutim had hoped, the bridge proved too frail for the three-headed
beast.  As it reached the middle of the span, the arch cracked underneath
its weight.  It roared, and scrabbled frantically for a grip on the remains
of the bridge--even its arms couldn't reach the edge of the chasm--but the
rock crumbled away, and it plummeted downward, its scream something Stutim
hoped he never heard again as long as he lived.

Maybe it was the bridge's disintegration, or the damage wreaked on
the tunnel by the creature's passage, or even some trap set by Welecta
as he fled, but Stutim started to feel dirt raining down on his head.
The cavern was collapsing around him.

He started to run for the large tunnel that was doubtless whither Welecta
had fled, but its roof seemed no more stable than the cavern's, and he
halted when he saw a head-sized rock fall ten feet in front of him.
Looking wildly around, he saw a narrow tunnel, barely more than a crack in
the rock, and seeing no better alternative, he squeezed himself into it.

The sounds of the cave-in mercifully receded, and soon he noticed an odd
light source ahead of him.  He emerged into a large room filled with a huge
variety of oddly-shaped fungus, some of it glowing.  His stomach reminded
him how long it had been since he last ate.  He grabbed a handful of
mushrooms that exuded an oddly sweet odour, and crammed them into his mouth.

It only took a few minutes for his surroundings to fade from his awareness.

Alfvaen plays: mushroom

- --
- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.telusplanet.net/public/alfvaen/ )
Current Album--Tom Waits:Asylum Years
Current Book--David Brin:Infinity's Shore
Earthlings!  Your weapons are useful on us! All we have is this P.A.!

------------------------------

End of acka-games-digest V2 #146
********************************