Subject: Ackanomic Discussion Digest V2 #27
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Discussion Digest)
To: acka-discuss-digest

Ackanomic Discussion Digest  Tuesday, March 25 1997  Volume 02 : Number 027

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 01:05:33 -0600
From: Simon <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: New Player (Mentor: CnH)

>Welcome back, Simon Marty Harriman!
>
>fnord
>(contemplating changing his name to fnord_ahimnorsty)
>
I was thinking about that proposal the other day.  I can't believe anyone
else remembers ahimnorsty. Didn't your name used to be something else fnord?

Simon Marty Harriman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:53:11 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: AckaGuide 

At 3:40 PM -0900 3/23/97, [email-masked] wrote:
>Howdy, all. I was shooting airballs in the gym the other day when it came to
>me that I might write an AckaGuide, which would be the equivalent of the
>Guide to Agora...sort of an introduction to the game. The Welcome Packet and
>the the Introductory page are good, but don't really give a "feel" for the
>game. It wouldn't replace a reading of the ruleset, just supplement it. Not
>that I'm an expert, but I'd love to put my (getting rusty) writing skills to
>the test with this project, if there's any enthusiasm.
>
>You can call me Al

I'mm al for it, and I'd love to help in any way I can.

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:37:05 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: CFJ 356 Appeal (Supreme Court)

CnH wrote:

> You mention that the rules as they stand allow for your interpretation
> (arguably granted) and that whether or not this is fair is not the
> point,
> the rules aren't supposed to be fair. You also say that the rules
> should be
> followed to the letter, that's all.
> 
> That is exactly what I did. There is nothing in the rules that
> prohibts me
> from applying a rule to its fullest extend. Indeed, I see the sentence
> saying some players can't receive keys as calling on me to do so, that
> anything less would betray the rule. It may not be fair, but we've
> agreed
> the rules aren't fair. And by applying them as given, I don't care if
> in
> some fuzzy funky way there is one possible way in which the transfer
> is
> legitimate, and that this was the obvious intent of the player. Tough!
> Rules
> are rules.
> 
> The end result should always be that a non-eligible player can never
> receive
> a key. That's the hard facts and that's that. (as far as this CFJ and
> the
> rules go, personally, I have a different view). You and I are
> officially
> disagreeing on this, you interpret the statement to be more lax, but
> that's
> all, and that's what CFJs are here for, to see what interpretation is
> to be
> used.
> 
On this we disagree, but I acknowledge that CnH's interpretation seems
to be within the rules.  I just don't think that it's the best one, or
the one that should be preferred.

> The rule seems very clear. First is says that it will define the
> legitimate
> ways to transfer "below" (for each key). Then it goes on to say
> players may
> attempt to do otherwise... as illegitimate attempts which lead to the
> goose
> getting it. This is like saying "my way... or the highway".
> 
The _intent_ of the rule is rather clear, I agree.  The _effect_ of the
rule is not necessarilly exactly aligned with the intent, however.  It
would certainly not be the first time that such a misalignment has
occured around here.  Moreover, I argue that the Goose is sufficiently
peripheral to the whole thing that an argument for judging CFJ 356
either way based on R 222's intent is weak.

> I officially decline all room for compromise with your all too cuddly
> interpretation that would be tantamount to tossing a candy to those
> ferociously devious players out there. [Yes, you people  out there!
> You know
> who you are! <g>] There is no room for compromise and I stand by my
> ruling.
> If a player tries to do something that does not fit with the defined
> ways to
> transfer the keys, to the goose it goes!
> 
Very well, you cold-hearted, candy-hoarding, loophole-surfing-fighting-
any-way-it-takes-er.

> Unofficially, I invite you over to my house for tea and biscuits so
> that we
> may try and plan some amendments to the rules.
> 
Does that count as permission to enter your house?  If so, then I go
to CnH's house.  I like biscuits.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:50:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: RFC: AckaGuide

On Sun, 23 Mar 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> the test with this project, if there's any enthusiasm.
> 

Yay! Yay!

IB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:49:59 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: RFC: AckaGuide

You can call me Al wrote:

> Howdy, all. I was shooting airballs in the gym the other day when it
> came to
> me that I might write an AckaGuide, which would be the equivalent of
> the
> Guide to Agora...sort of an introduction to the game. The Welcome
> Packet and
> the the Introductory page are good, but don't really give a "feel" for
> the
> game. It wouldn't replace a reading of the ruleset, just supplement
> it. Not
> that I'm an expert, but I'd love to put my (getting rusty) writing
> skills to
> the test with this project, if there's any enthusiasm.
> 
That sounds like a useful document to have.  I'm all for it, and would
be happy to review it during its preparation, if so requested.  There
are several players who could give you a substantial amount of
information of potential use, though the Historian (breadbox, right?)
is the only one with an official mandate to provide any such.

ThinMan
Approaching the anniversary of joining as a player.
Well past the anniversary of joining as an observer.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:43:09 +0000
From: "Bascule" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Potato/Phoebe/Aliens

> > ThinMan has found phoebe's matchbox

[Wisdom (and wisdom it surely is) deleted]

Cor. ThinMan gets all the best advice from Phoebe. I got a lousy 
riddle last time, and I haven't seen the matchbox in months.

Bascule

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:04:15 -0800
From: [email-masked] (fnord)
Subject: Re: Acka: New Player (Mentor: CnH)

Simon Marty Harriman writes:
> 
> >fnord
> >(contemplating changing his name to fnord_ahimnorsty)
> >
> I was thinking about that proposal the other day.  I can't believe anyone
> else remembers ahimnorsty.

Well, it was a really intriguing way of gaining points, or was it A$,
so it stuck in my mind.
 
> Didn't your name used to be something else fnord?

Nope, always was this way.  I was an observer way back, prolly about the
time of ahimnorsty.  You might be thinking about fon.

fnord

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:06:51 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka: Potato/Phoebe/Aliens

Bascule wrote:

> > > ThinMan has found phoebe's matchbox
> 
> [Wisdom (and wisdom it surely is) deleted]
> 
> Cor. ThinMan gets all the best advice from Phoebe. I got a lousy 
> riddle last time, and I haven't seen the matchbox in months.
> 
Just lucky, I guess.  :^)

ThinMan

(p.s. thanks.  TM)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:40:50 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: acka : My dangling house + official stuff 

In a message dated 97-03-23 15:56:37 EST, you write:

> I will give the first trinket above to the winged player who does the job.
>  Many thanks!

I volunteer, if it's not too late.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:48:33 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Resignation 

In a message dated 97-03-23 16:14:00 EST, you write:

> Another note:  Narf has the Chartreuse Goose, and is thus responsible 
>  for tracking the keys.  Here is the details on the keys:

Ouch, ugly... I have no bot to record info <grin>.  Nonetheless, I will be
shelling out 200 bucks later this week to make that durn goose go somewhere
else.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:49:52 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: acka: Financier and Banks 

In a message dated 97-03-23 16:25:24 EST, you write:

> Sometime ago someone posted a message about establishing banks, this could
>  be a good way of spreading some of the financier's duties among a couple
>  of players. I believe it was Narf, although I may be mistaken.
>  

Actualy... I think it came up in a conversation, rather than a direct post.
 I'll talk it around with the other members of the financial reconstruction
party (that is... BAKER) and see what we can come up with.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:12:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Resignation

On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Malenkai wrote:

> If I had the time to do the job correctly, I would still continue to
> do so, but it is a disservice to acka to pretend that I can still do it
> correctly.
> 

Ermmm, I remember the last time I volunteered for this job, I lasted about
.5 day before I got deluged with RL things and had to leave the game
completely.

> 1) Maintaining the finance log at http://www.itw.com/~malenkai/finance.txt
> 
> 2) Maintaining the player entity page at 
> http://www.itw.com/~malenkai/ackayp.htm
> 
> 3) Checking all proposal passages for processing chips, electronic 
> potatoes, and tammany.
> 
> 4) Maintaining the Museum at http://www.itw.com/~malenkai/ackayp.htm
> 

I assume these addresses could be moved to http://slack.net/~idiot/*?  Mind
you, I'm not volunteering just yet.. but I want to make sure I understand
the requirements.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:15:41 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Silver Moon Candidates 

>Ackanomians (and Count Tabula in particular) take note.
>
>The Commission D'Arts submits the following list of Candidates for
>Ackanomic's Third Silver Moon Award.
>
>1. "Ode to Ackanomic", the first Party Hall Party Poem, written by Brinjal.
>2. Scholar /dev/joe's ridiculing of Red Barn's guess at the Truth of the
>   Machine That Goes *ping* (at Fri, Jan 17 1997).
>3. breadbox's "Win" Proposal 1727.
>4. Vynd's achievement of the title of Crazy French-Scotsman.

For the first time in Ackanomic history I was not nominated :)

snowgod

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:33:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Potato/Phoebe/Aliens

> Mohammed has found the magic potato, and is beldins tailor
	Cool.  I have never had it.

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:40:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Treasure

> /dev/joe has found my latest treasure, by sending me a .jpg of David
> Letterman.  The actual map to the treasure said "Whosoever can take this
> collection of numbers and convert it from the .pict file it was to the .jpg
> it wants to be and send me that picture shall find this treasure."
> (followed by 120K or so of numbers, etc).

Damn. I was looking for hidden messages in the color data and
suchlike. Duh.

> Breadbox decoded it first, but sadly didn't send me the picture, but
> as a consolation prize I am creating a trinket, valued at A$50,
> called the "Consolation Prize" It is a T-shirt that says "I beat
> /dev/joe in a treasure hunt and all I got was this stupid t-shirt"
> on the front, and on the back it has holographic pictures of all the
> trinkets contained in the treasure /dev/joe just found.
> 
> I am give the Consolation Prize to breadbox

Wow. I was rather enjoying the idea of having Fibber back again, but I
think I like this trinket better than the treasure. I ack this. Thank
you, snowgod.

Is one allowed to wear trinkets? No, probably not. And I'm already
wearing a Robe....

For the time being, I will hold the Consolation Prize up against my
torso everywhere I go.

breadbox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:23:06 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Financial Pythonization

Mohammed wrote:
 
> I will accept the job of Financier, but remember I'm nowhere near as cool
> and efficient as Malenkai, so.  Whoever the Pres wants to appoint.

Thanks, I appreciate it, even though I'm running a huge distance second
to the bot in the #thanks dept ;-).

This is just a reminder that the prez should begin to conduct the 
nomination.  I'm sorry I had to resign so suddenly, but I lied about one
thing: I have much *less* time to play the game now than I have had in
the past, and the job is growing with each proposal.  I really want to
spend a little more time on the areas of the game I enjoy and have missed,
such as the rules, and treasures.  Don't worry, I'll still have plenty
of FO work to do :).

I have been holding out against a bot solution under the personal 
philosophy that the game should not become so complex that it be
necessary to employ a bot to track the game state and follow the rules.
There are various reasons I believe that, which I will not get into now.

I also did not want to continually say, each time one of these proposals
came along, that "That creates more work for *me*".  That didn't seem right
for some reason, and is not a valid reason to object to a proposal, so 
long as it is not too much work for *acka* at large.  

I wish the next Financier all the best, and will help wherever possible.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Silver Moon Candidates

>> The Commission D'Arts submits the following list of Candidates for
>> Ackanomic's Third Silver Moon Award.
>> 
>> 1. "Ode to Ackanomic", the first Party Hall Party Poem, written by Brinjal.
> 
> This entry won the first Silver Moon.  The senate, who may or may not
> be in Contempt, should come up with another one, as rule 670 prevents
> this.  I will call the voting period when this is released.

*choke* Cripes, did I name Brinjal's poem? Good grief, my mind is
going. Of course, what I meant to say was the LATEST Party Hall Party
Poem, not the FIRST. An easy mistake to make. *cough*

This would be the unnamed Party Hall Party Poem, in response to the
Party Hall Party of March 8, and delivered by snowgod on March
18. This poem can be found at the bottom of the same web page as the
first.

(BTW, the fourth nominee can now be found off of the main web page,
under "Vynd's Crazy French-Scotsman Complaints".)

I bed the pardon of Count Tabula for the error.

breadbox
senator, seat-of-his-pants sinecure 33

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:59:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Silver Moon Candidates

On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Brian Raiter wrote:

> BTW, you may see me saying something completely different in a
> separate message. Ignore it. It went to acka-discuss, and thus has no
> bearing.
> 
> breadbox
> senator
> 

LOL.

IB
sincerely amused

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:11:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Silver Moon Candidates

(NRA)RFC

Whenever the Senate makes a report to another Office, and then later
changes the contents of said report one or more times, the receiving
Officer may publically complain. In order for this complaint to have
the effects described in this rule, it must express the sentiment "I
didn't understand the report! You keep changing the report!"

This public complaining may only be exercised 3 times by any
Officer. If the Officer manages to legitimately exercise this ability
3 times within a 48 hour period, they will be dubbed a Frazzled
Officer. If the Officer manages to legitimately exercise this ability
3 times within a 24 hour period, they will instead be dubbed a
Frazzled-Frantic Officer. Also the Senate is impeached.

b

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:33:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: acr*bot (fwd)

> I got this March 17.  I altered it manually to read "#retract proposal 1801".
> 
> --Mohammed
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:37:53 -0600 (CST)
> From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
> Subject: acrobot
> 
> #retract 1801

It wasn't sent to a list where retractions can occur, so it wasn't
retracted.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:47:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Jason Orendorff <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: P1801

> It wasn't sent to a list where retractions can occur, so it wasn't
> retracted.
	Oh, joy.  Guess who gets to dig through old botmail  :o)

- --Mohammed

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:49:03 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acr*bot (fwd)

On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote:

> > I got this March 17.  I altered it manually to read "#retract proposal 1801".
> > 
> > --Mohammed
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:37:53 -0600 (CST)
> > From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
> > To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
> > Subject: acrobot
> > 
> > #retract 1801
> 
> It wasn't sent to a list where retractions can occur, so it wasn't
> retracted.
> 
> /dev/joe
> 

I hesitate to contradict the Postmaster on this, but he did send it to
[email-masked], which I'm pretty sure was a list where retractions
could occur at the time.  I don't recall exactly when that change went
into (and has now left?) effect, but I do know that on the 16th I noticed
that Mohammed's address was a legal list, I even posted a message to that
effect.  If I'm wrong and /dev/joe is right though, does that mean I could
impeach someone again? =)

                                - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:59:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: acr*bot (fwd)

> I hesitate to contradict the Postmaster on this, but he did send it to
> [email-masked], which I'm pretty sure was a list where retractions
> could occur at the time.  I don't recall exactly when that change went
> into (and has now left?) effect, but I do know that on the 16th I noticed
> that Mohammed's address was a legal list, I even posted a message to that
> effect.  If I'm wrong and /dev/joe is right though, does that mean I could
> impeach someone again? =)

The change that took effect then was:
  [email-masked] is a public list usable only for submitting votes
  and proposals to the Tabulator and Promoter, respectively.  Messages
  sent directly to this list (i.e., not through another mailing list)
  are public messages only if they perform one of the actions described
  in the previous sentence.

Retractions were not allowed privately as part of this change, intentionally,
since they had never been allowed privately before.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:59:44 -0500
From: Dan Knapp (A.K.A. TheWiz) <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acka : My dangling house 

> >  But if you're off the surface of Ackanomia, you're hanging by a tether,
> >and can just climb back up it.
>
> The tethers aren't very long, I don't think...

  They have to be as long as you are far off the ground.  Which creates the
problem of GETTING that far.  Hum, perhaps flight doesn't really help at
all?

- -Red Barn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:32:36 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Auctions; Inventor

Mohammed wrote:

> Mohammed  -$15 [Wrench rental]
> /dev/joe  +$15 [Wrench rental]

This transaction was part of the log before I resigned.  The first
transaction that occurred that I did not handle was CnH creation
(and later transferrence), of a couple of trinkets on sunday around
15:30.

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:43:27 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1801 accepted (Dealing With The Paranormal) 

I seem to have cast 2 votes on this proposal, an ability I don't mind
possessing, but I did feel I ought to point it out.

Robert Sevin

At 10:11 PM 3/24/97 -0600, you wrote:
>P1801 was accepted.  My apologies to Calvin for not noticing the list 
>thing. :o(  The following was done by hand, so if there's something 
>missing please let me know.  I think I got everyone.
>
>Proposal 1801
>Dealing With The Paranormal
>Calvin N Hobbes
>
>Votes cast by active players:  12 (plenty for quorum)
>Yes: 6       No: 1       Present: 5       ...Proposal is accepted.
>
>YES votes cast:
>	Malenkai
>	IdiotBoy
>	ThinMan
>	Red Barn
>	Mohammed
>	Calvin N Hobbes
>
>NO votes cast:
>	Robert Sevin
>
>PRESENT votes cast:
>	Narf
>	Niccolo Flychuck
>	Robert Sevin
>	breadbox
>	/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:17:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" <devjoe>
Subject: Re: Acka: P1801 accepted (Dealing With The Paranormal)

P1801 was kind of a mess...

> 1. Amend proposal R1117 by replacing its last two paragraphs by the
> following:
> 2. Create a new proposal, renumbered to R251 to read:

These attempts to create and amend proposals fail.

> 3. Amend R1743 to read, at the end:
> 
> "The selection of an existing Rule to be abducted by Sinister Aliens is
> considered a Paranormal Power use by a non player entity.
> 
> [The following ensures that special powers granted to organizations can also
> be paranormal. Perhaps time for the Alchemist/Illuminati/Cuthulu
> Organizations to start collecting them]
> 
> 4. Amend R1764 to read, at the end:
> 
> Any Powers that contain the word 'alien', 'ufo', 'gray', 'green', 'occult',
> 'subterfuge', 'abduction', 'unnatural' or plural thereof, shall also be
> considered Paranormal Powers. Use by an organization of such a power counts
> as a non-player entity use of such."

Part 3 seems to be adding the section quoted below it to the end of R1743,
which is now R1131.  It succeeds, but look carefully!  The quoted section
includes Part 4, which gets included in its entirety and amends R1764
(now R723) from within the other rule.

/dev/joe

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:42:13 -0900
From: Phil Ackley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: acr*bot (fwd) 

>> I got this March 17.  I altered it manually to read "#retract proposal
>>1801".
>>
>> --Mohammed
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:37:53 -0600 (CST)
>> From: Thierry Joffrain <[email-masked]>
>> To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
>> Subject: acrobot
>>
>> #retract 1801
>
>It wasn't sent to a list where retractions can occur, so it wasn't
>retracted.
>
>/dev/joe

I'm sorry, but that's what I don't like about the postal code.

snowgod

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Discussion Digest V2 #27
*****************************************