Subject: Ackanomic Discussion Digest V2 #5
From: [email-masked] (Ackanomic Discussion Digest)
To: acka-discuss-digest

Ackanomic Discussion Digest  Thursday, March 6 1997  Volume 02 : Number 005

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:49:09 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Would you believie it? Another New payer

Ok, that is obviously odd, but is it prime?
Ludwig

On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, [email-masked] wrote:
>> Malenkai Wrote:
>>> 10,000 Thanks
>
>2^1398269 - 1 You're Welcomes.
> 
>---
>Ackers
>[email-masked]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:19:52 +0000
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Would you believie it? Another New payer

> Ok, that is obviously odd, but is it prime?
> Ludwig
> >2^1398269 - 1 You're Welcomes.

But of course.  
 
- ---
Ackers
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:11:39 -0800
From: Stephen McCulley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:  does Acrobot have Snowgods disease? FW: Acrobot

John Martin Lotz wrote:
> 
> I found this morning
> 
>         Jammer
> John-Martin Lotz
> [email-masked]
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Stephen McCulley [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:   Tuesday, March 04, 1997 11:57 PM
> To:     Jason Orendorff
> Cc:     Ackanomic
> Subject:        Acrobot
> 
> #retract proposal 1778
> #thanks
That was a deliberate retraction.

Strider

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:35:42 -0500
From: "Bollinger, John C." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Acka:  does Acrobot have Snowgods disease? FW: Acrobot

Jammer wrote:

>I found this morning
>
>From:	Stephen McCulley [SMTP:[email-masked]]
>Sent:	Tuesday, March 04, 1997 11:57 PM
>To:	Jason Orendorff
>Cc:	Ackanomic

[etc.]

Meditate upon the last line quoted above, my son, and you will receive
enlightenment.

ThinMan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:57:11 -0500 (EST)
From: John Frederic Mc Coy <[email-masked]>
Subject: Acka: Greetings all

Howdy everyone!  I've been lurking around for the past few days, and I
think I'm comfortable enough now to actually introduce myself, so to
speak.  I must admit I don't have the first clue what's really going on,
but you can expect to see many silly (perhaps even harfy?) proposals from
me in the near future.  I'm also planning on running for the office of mad
scientist =)

                           - Vynd

[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:06:05 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all 

Welcome Vynd....

I offer A$5 for 5 pfBond Vynd

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:31:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all

> I offer A$5 for 5 pfBond Vynd
> 
> Narf
> 

Ever stingy Narf..

I offer A$10 for 5 PFVynd

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:45:28 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all 

In a message dated 97-03-05 16:41:29 EST, you write:

> Ever stingy Narf..
>  
>  I offer A$10 for 5 PFVynd
>  

So greedy, Idiot Boy....

You didn't offer ME that much when *I* was new.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:56:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 [email-masked] wrote:

> So greedy, Idiot Boy....
> 
> You didn't offer ME that much when *I* was new.
> 
> Narf
> 

That was before I understood the power of the Celtic people!

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:24:21 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all 

>> I offer A$5 for 5 pfBond Vynd
>> 
>> Narf
>
>Ever stingy Narf..
>
>I offer A$10 for 5 PFVynd
>
>IB

I offer A$15 for 6 PFVynd

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:28:54 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: Irc 

IRC ghost anyone?
Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:30:37 -0800
From: [email-masked] (fnord)
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all

Robert Sevin writes:
> >> Narf offer A$5 for 5 pfBond Vynd
> >
> >IdiotBoy offer A$10 for 5 PFVynd
> 
> I offer A$15 for 6 PFVynd

Oh, phsaw!  I offer $A25 for 1 (yes, just one!) PFVynd

fnord

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:02:01 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Grab-A-Donkey

Count me in for the game
Ludwig

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:02:46 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Lead Guitarist, etc.

Good stuff eh?  Well, we wait for Smiley to come back, then stage our first gig!
Ludwig

On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, [email-masked] wrote:
>> Lead Guitarist desired.  Must play loud and obnoxious music.  Must be capable 
of 
>> preforming occasionally at the Band Shell.  Other instrumenters etc. desired 
as 
>> well.
>> Ludwig, Percussionist (Concussionist)
>
>Well then Ludwig Van BamBam, you've found your Axeman.  Ackers, 
>Axe-Grinder extraordinaire...
>---
>Ackers
>[email-masked]
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:13:39 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Grab-A-Donkey 

After reading the rules several times and not being entirely sure that I
understand them....... I think I'm gonna sit this one out.

Besides, it wouldn't do to have all the younger mob members see their
Godfather participating in such frivolous activity...

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:20:40 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka:RFC stock options 

Ok... in search of a smoother economic system, I have come up with the
following idea and am looking for suggestions.

1. A type of organization known as a Company exist.  Players may form new
companies in accordance with this rule.

2. Players form companies by publicly posting a message containing the
following information: The name of the Company, the initial Board of
Directors (a minimum of three players). the name of the CEO (must be one of
the players on the Board of Directors), the initial offering price for their
stock, and the division of the stock.  At least 25% of the stock must be
unowned at the time the company forms.

3.  The Board of Directors of a company consists of every player that owns
stock in that company.  The Board of Directors convenes once per month to
choose a CEO.  Each member of the Board of Directors gets one vote per share
of stock they own in the company.

4. The CEO is the only player permitted to take actions on behalf of the
company.  These actions include, but are not limited to, submitting
proposals, and posting public messages.

5. When a new company forms, 100 shares of stock bearing the company's name
are created and distributed in accordance with the initial announcement.
 Each member of the Board of Directors must pay the company the amount
specified per share of stock.  The forming of a new company is not official
until every member of the Board of Directors ack's the original message.

6. The 96 hours following the formation of a company is known as the Initial
Public Offering (hereafter called the IPO) period.  During the IPO period,
the original members of the Board of Directors may not sell or purchase stock
in the company, but all other players may purchase the stock at the initial
price.  All purchases of stock from the company go into the company's
account.

7.  Once the IPO period has ended, any player may buy or sell stock from any
other player at any agreed upon amount.  Players may sell stock to the
company or buy unowned stock from the company at the price specified by Wall
Street.  This is automatic, and does not require the CEO to ack it.

8.  Companies may write proposals.  If a Company proposal is approved, the
Company receives A$200.  The Company must divide A$100 among its share
holders at A$1 per share of stock.  It may either keep the other A$100 or pay
it out as a dividend.  If a Company proposal is rejected, the company must
pay A$100 to the treasury.  If the Company does not have A$100 in its
account, then the stock holders must give A$1 per share of stock they own.

9. There exists a unique unownable entity known as Wall Street.  Wall Street
sets the price of stocks in the following manner.  When a company proposal
passes, the value of its stock increases by $A1.  If the company pays
additional dividends, its stock price increases by a further $A1.  If a
company proposal fails, the stock price decreases by $A1.  If, on the first
day of the month, every share of stock is owned by a player, the stock price
increases by $A1.  If 50% or more of the stock is owned by the company, then
the stock price decreases by $A1.

Ok... I'm certain I've overlooked a lot, or forgotten an obscure rule or two,
or made a typo that would nullify this whole durn thing... so.... help me out
and post your thoughts!  Thanks.

Narf

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:24:18 -0800
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka: Feat of Modern Science

Chris Lundberg
A.K.A. Ludwig
2440 Hill St. Se.
Albany, Or 97321

On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]> wrote:
>>>Everyone keep in mind how small this truly is, and the fact that it will be
>>>out of date shortly...
>>
>>If yuou don't mind I really would, but if it's a hassle, I wouldn't worry
>>about it.
>>
>>snowgod
>>wasting bandwidth with the best of them
>
>Ok, everyone who wants a copy send me your snail mail addresses. I can only
>mail so many, but I'll do what I can.
>
>Robert Sevin
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 18:40:39 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka:RFC stock options

Narf wrote:

[About companies]

My comments are technical only, I did not analyize this for semantic
content.

> 6. The 96 hours following the

We have tried to standardize on 3 days or 7 days for stuff.  Try not
to throw odd times into the rules.  (I realize there are a couple of
other non-standard rules, but only one of them has a good reason to be
non-standard, IMO).

> 7.  Once the IPO period has ended, any player may buy or sell stock from
> any other player at any agreed upon amount. 

"Stock is tradeable" is cleaner.  You probably want to make stock an
named or namless entity as well, as appropriate.

> 8.  Companies may write proposals.

I still think joint proposals are a HUGE headache.  Can you make the
company do something else?

> 9. There exists a unique unownable entity known as Wall Street.  Wall Street

And who is the "Wall Street Harfer"?  The Financier?  The Speaker?  Who
tracks this and what companies exist?

Malenkai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 18:50:25 -0500
From: Malenkai <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Web server statistics

/dev/joe wrote:
 
> Web server statistics for wilma.che.utexas.edu for the period from
> 14:38 Nov 6 1996 to 15:25 Mar 5 1997 (about 119 days):

> For whatever reason, prop1450.html and prop350.html are by far the most
> popular of the proposal archive files; with 158 and 150 hits, respectively,
> while none of the others had more than 100 hits.

I wonder if someone else is writing a proposal code treasure :)  When I
wrote mine, I tried to cover my tracks by downloading the html to my
machine (so as not to give an advantage to the player with access to the
server access log, and to speed things up).  I wonder if my accesses to
prop*.html are higher in late october (when I wrote that), than normal.

You can never be too careful.

Malenkai
who tries to think of everything, and
who is wondering who the Fictionary Brainiac is

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:11:17 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Acka:RFC stock options 

In a message dated 97-03-05 18:48:23 EST, you write:

> > 9. There exists a unique unownable entity known as Wall Street.  Wall
Street
>  
>  And who is the "Wall Street Harfer"?  The Financier?  The Speaker?  Who
>  tracks this and what companies exist?
>  

Well, Malenkai... I didn't want to volunteer you, but.... 

<grin>

Narf

Incidentaly... to any who joined IRC.... I got disconnected, sorry... I'm
back there now.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:36:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Matt Miller <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all

On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Mitchell Harding wrote:

> 
> I offer A$15 for 6 PFVynd
> 
> Robert Sevin
> 

While I have no intention of matching fnord's offer, I do have the advantage
of dealing in volume.

I offer A$20 for 5 PFVynd.

IB

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:21:56 -0800
From: [email-masked] (fnord)
Subject: Re: Acka:RFC stock options

Narf wrote about Companies, and here are my thoughts...

>2. Players form companies by publicly posting a message containing the
>following information: The name of the Company, the initial Board of
>Directors (a minimum of three players). the name of the CEO (must be one of
>the players on the Board of Directors), the initial offering price for their
>stock, and the division of the stock.  

Division of which stock?  Oh, I see, down in number 5 you say how much stock
is created.  You might want to put that higher up, since it is vital info.

>At least 25% of the stock must be unowned at the time the company forms.

Hmmm.... not good, I think.  Shouldn't the company own its stock (as in real
life)?  Also, consider that somewhere down below, you say that players can buy
the stock if they pay the company money, so technically, the company should 
own any stock not owned by players.

>5. When a new company forms, 100 shares of stock bearing the company's name
>are created and distributed in accordance with the initial announcement.
>Each member of the Board of Directors must pay the company the amount
>specified per share of stock.  The forming of a new company is not official
>until every member of the Board of Directors ack's the original message.

Instead of 'new company is not official', say instead 'a company does not
exist'.

Doesn't something explicit have to be said in the rule so that an organization
can own things?

>7.  Once the IPO period has ended, any player may buy or sell stock from any
>other player at any agreed upon amount.  Players may sell stock to the  
>company or buy unowned stock from the company at the price specified by Wall
>Street.  This is automatic, and does not require the CEO to ack it.

I'd define Wall Street _before_ using it in the Rule.  Or perhaps, make two
rules (in the same proposal) so that Wall Street can be modified outside
of having to modify the Company rule.
                    
>If a Company proposal is rejected, the company must
>pay A$100 to the treasury.  If the Company does not have A$100 in its      
>account, then the stock holders must give A$1 per share of stock they own.

So if a company has A$101, they don't have to pay the fee for writing a 
rejected proposal?

Also, what if a player is supposed to pay more money than e has?  If I own
50 shares, and only have $A30, where should the remaining money come from?
                                                                 
Wall Street should have someone to take care of it.  Yes, it makes sense for
the Financier to take care of it, but in this case, Malenkai already has more
than enough to do for Ackanomic.           

Do you also intend for there to be no way to increase or decrease the number
of shares available for a company?  Or will it always stay at 100?

fnord

- -- 
Michael J. Thomas                              [email-masked]
"Opinions are falling like drops of rain"  In that case, I'm in a downpour!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 17:19:57 -0800
From: Stephen McCulley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Feat of Modern Science

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Chris Lundberg
> A.K.A. Ludwig
> 2440 Hill St. Se.
> Albany, Or 97321
> 
Interesting.
Jason McCulley
5271 Coetivy Ave.
Eugene, OR 97402

Howdy, neighbor!

Strider
who doesn't want a copy of the ruleset

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:28:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Raiter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Fragments

> I would like to trade RoJ fragment 5 for another fragment.
> Somebody make me an offer.

I will trade RoJ fragment 9.

b

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:49:51 +0000
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Acka: A little bedtime story

Ready for a little bedtime story, kiddies?  Good!  This one's called, 
the The Tale of the Big, Bad, Tube Topped Wolf.

Gazing at the moonlit night
Shining down on the forest bright
With not a piglet it his sight
The Wolf licked his lips as he set out to find his meal

Back to his home for just a quick dressing
Leaving without it would be quite distressing
With it he felt he had Zeus' blessing
He donned his cylindrical vestment and left for the field

There he found, to his surprise
Two piglet dwellings with a side of fries
The Wolf raised his head to the skies
And howled a mighty howl for tonight he would feast

Stepping to the first strange home
He discovered it was not alone
But there were actually two in this zone
The Wolf smiled thinking "not 2 but 3 piggies...at least."

Taking aim at the first of the three
Which had three windows, incidentally
He drew in a breath, mightily
And huffed for all he was worth at the first apartment

Finding a piglet inside the rubble
The Wolf grinned, but began to stumble
As he realized this piglet was in some trouble
For his body was missing pieces, quite an assortment

But his stomache growled, and not to deny
He consumed the piglet nary a batting eye
Then picked his teeth with a french fry
As he eyed the next apartment he wished to explore

Disposing of this dwelling quickly
He snatched the piglet, small and sicky
And noticed he was kind of prickly
He held the missing pieces from the troubled pig before  

Another bite of scrumptious ham
Two piggies down, one on the lam
He hurried while the piglet was still canned
Inside his brick condo which looked strange to him

For when gazing upon it's walls
One cannot help but notice all
The single bricks as if they might fall
But in went the Wolf and tore the piggie limb from limb

Laying out under the starry sky
The Wolf sighed, his hunger quite satisfied
The flesh of three piglets digesting inside
He his favorite piece of fabric, cylindrically sewn

So if you're a wolf here's my advice
Learn from this story which I have devised
And you will be pleasantly surprised
With a piglet-hunting Tube Top of your own

- ---
Ackers
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:38:09 -0600
From: Mitchell Harding <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Acka: Greetings all 

>> >> Narf offer A$5 for 5 pfBond Vynd
>> >
>> >IdiotBoy offer A$10 for 5 PFVynd
>> 
>> I offer A$15 for 6 PFVynd
>
>Oh, phsaw!  I offer $A25 for 1 (yes, just one!) PFVynd
>
>fnord

I offer A$60 for 2 PFVynd

Robert Sevin

------------------------------

End of Ackanomic Discussion Digest V2 #5
****************************************