Subject: spoon-business: CFI
From: Dan Waldron <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:51:30 -0400 (EDT)

> >
> >All right, is r0 invoked or not? And how difficult would it be to fix 
> >things
> >if it is?
> 
> No, because a majority of players need to recognize an emergency before r0 
> kicks in.  Eight is a majority, and I think we only have six.

And you won't have my vote until I am convinced that an emergency exists.
At present I believe that the ruleset is entirely playable.  We aren't a
computer program and there is no need to crash as soon as we get an
undefined value.

All we need is for the judicial system to make a decision about what
happens when we get an undefined value.

I appeal CFI 754
I submit the following CFI:

{{
Given that the rules exist to be interpreted by intelligent beings, and
given that it might, through methods foreseen or unforeseen, become
impossible to determine the value of various game values, and
given that this has indeed happened, I submit the following statement:

No player was awarded a win during nweek 16.

My analysis follows.

Rule 18/2 states that "With the exception of Rule Changes whatever is not
prohibited or regulated by the Ruleset is permitted and unregulated."

Indeterminate values are neither prohibited nor regulated.  Therefore it
is up to us to come to some decision how they shall be dealt with.  The
simplest means of dealing with an undefined value is to have the answer of
any query made of it be "no", and this is the principle I suggest we apply
here.  I do not suggest that we apply this principle indiscriminately, for
example if the rules were to ask "is the value of x indeterminate?" it
would be foolish to return an answer of "no" due to precedent if x were
indeterminate.  However, in present circumstances the principle is quite
simple to apply.

Rule 27/2 states that "If at any time a player's score equals or exceeds
1000 points, and that player's Charm and Activity are both greater than
zero, that player is immediately awarded a Win."

The rule asks the question "Is the value of any player's greater than or
equal to 1000 points?"  In the case of Wonko and others whose score is
indeterminate, the answer is "no."

Furthermore, rule 440 asks the question "is the global Entropy greater
than 500?" since the global Entropy is also indeterminate the answer
should also be "no."

}}

Dan Waldron
ICQ 57894467

From: "Ed Murphy" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Deregistration
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 01:50:32 -0700
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I just don't have time to keep up with everything.  Sorry.

Would someone e-mail me privately if/when C Nomic starts?  I think I could
*maybe* keep track of things, if I were in on it from the beginning.

I hereby declare publicly my intention to forfeit, as described by Rule 14.

-- 
Ed Murphy <[email-masked]>          "I'm not sure I can go through
http://members.fortunecity.com/emurphy/      with it.  Leave, I mean."

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 06:12:27 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Change to prop. "Less is More: Clubs"
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In my proposal entitled "Less is More: Clubs":

Replace "The number of Players in the Society must be less than half" with=
 "The number of Members in the Society must be more than one, and less than=
 half".

Replace "A Standard Method is a rule defined with this game rule" with "A=
 Standard Method is a rule defined within this game rule".

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:15:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Saturday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Introducing Physical Law" is 759/1.
"And The Lord Said You Gots Ta Rise Up-ah!" is 763/0.
"Less is More: Clubs: is 765/0, 765/1.

Dan's revision to 761 won't be acknowledged (yet) -- are you sure you
don't mean 760? 761 is a Declaration of Respect, and adding text to it
would be illegal (or at least would disqualify it as a Respect prop).

Naath and Wild Card cast their lots into the Rule Zero fray. That's six...
(With Ed Murphy's forfeit, only 7 are required to trigger r0.)

Naath rules TRUE on CFI754, which is promptly appealed. The Upper House
randomly selects Rob, Glotmorf, and Bean.

Baron von Skippy buys two random Gnomes, throwing one to bd. E keeps a
Basic Gnome and throws a Russian Gnome. bd catches. Yay.

Glotmorf's "Glotmorf wins" CFI is 764, assigned to The Voice.
Dan's "nobody wins" CFI is 766, assigned to Ed Murphy.

Ed Murphy forfeits. This adjusts the Entropy thresholds, and since I'm
feeling benevolent, I'll reassign CFI 766 (randomly) to Glotmorf.

Bean comes and goes.

Glotmorf's refresh proposal is not recognized (yet) because there's not an
emergency (yet). (I hope e'll be kind enough to remind me of its existence
should an Emergency be declared.)

...dave

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Waldron <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Saturday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, David E. Smith wrote:

> "Introducing Physical Law" is 759/1.
> "And The Lord Said You Gots Ta Rise Up-ah!" is 763/0.
> "Less is More: Clubs: is 765/0, 765/1.
> 
> Dan's revision to 761 won't be acknowledged (yet) -- are you sure you
> don't mean 760? 761 is a Declaration of Respect, and adding text to it
> would be illegal (or at least would disqualify it as a Respect prop).
> 

whoops, my mistake.  I meant 760.

Dan Waldron
ICQ 57894467

From: "The Voice" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Saturday afternoon)
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 18:42:35 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Glotmorf's "Glotmorf wins" CFI is 764, assigned to The Voice.
>...dave

I judge UNDECIDED on CFI 764.
I immediately appeal the ruling on CFI 764

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:22:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Waldron <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Mega-Proposal revision
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[The changes I have made are:

Divided the proposal into an a la carte proposal, although with not quite
as many parts as Glotmorf suggested;

Removed the repeal of rule 0;

Added "except as specified by physical law" to rule 13, "Definitions" to
correct my mistake which Glotmorf caught;

Replaced rule 25 with the contents of the "duties of the administrator"
rule; (Rule 25 was nescessary in early working versions of the proposal
but was made obsolete by my final round of changes before I submitted it.)

Added Glotmorf's suggested definition of Charter Rules in place of my
blank rule;

Added a measure to ensure that Glotmorf will be compensated for eir
contribution to my proposal;

Added an option to adapt the chutzpah system instead of replacing it;

Added rule 33 "chutzpah" to the list of physical rules;

Removed the amendment of rule 21 "score" because it contained no from the 
current version of the rule.

I have not:
Changed the equivalency between withdrawal of consent and forfeiting.
They cause the same result and come from the same purpose.  And I believe
that this equivalency is required to protect the game state from malicious
tampering by players.

]]

I revise proposal 759 to the following:

{{
__Introducing Physical Law__

Give to the following Rules the designation "Physical Law":
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 22, 33, 153, 154, 205, 206, 207,
210, 213, 215, 216, 258, 259, 293, 295, 298, 301, 344, 346, 347, 349, 350,
351, 352, 353, 354, 355, 356, 394, 401, 405, 407, 408, 440, 441, 443, 466,
469, 493, 494, 495, 497, 498, 502, 503, 504, 546, 547, 549, 550, 577, 628,
635, 622, 696, 705, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753.

Give to the following Rules the designation "Mutable Rule":
0, 9, 10, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 32, 124,
125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 150, 151, 152, 155, 204, 208, 209, 211, 212, 214,
216, 217, 255, 257, 262, 263, 294, 300, 358, 393, 395, 396, 403, 404, 436,
437, 573, 578, 580, 625, 626, 627, 629, 630, 631, 633, 536, 697, 698, 699,
700, 701, 704, 706, 746.

Enact the following new rule and make it a "Physical Law" 
{{
__Rule Classes & Permissions__

This is an A La Carte Prop.

{{ _Item 1_

There exist three types of rules: Physical Laws, Mutable Rules, and
Charter Rules.

Physical Laws take precedence over all other rules.  Mutable Rules take
precedence over Charter Rules.

All entities defined or regulated by the Physical Laws by obey the
Physical Laws.  An action is impossible if it is prohibited by the
Physical Laws.

Players, the Administrator, and any other self-willed entities are
required to obey the Mutable Rules. An action is illegal if it is
prohibited by the Mutable Rules.

Obeyance to the Physical Laws does not exempt an entity subject to the
Mutable Rules from any requirement in either body of rules.

Charter Rules are of lower precedence than Physical Laws or Mutable Rules.
Players are not required to obey Charter Rules except as specified in the
Mutable Rules.  Non-player entities are not required to obey the Charter
Rules.

}}

Revise rule 13 "Definitions" by revising it to read as follows: 
{{ 

A player is any entity who is capable of passing the Turing test, consents
to said designation as a player, has become a player in the manner
described in the rules, and who consents to be abide by the Mutable Rules.

A being is any entity which is either a Player or the Administrator. 

A Proposing Entity, or PE, is any entity which is capable of issuing a
Proposal. 

Beings may make changes to the rules and game state.  Non-beings may not,
except as specified by physical law.
}}

Revise rule 10 by changing it to read as follows: 
{{ 
A player who refuses to obey the Rules is assumed to have withdrawn eir
consent.  E should be given a reasonable opportunity to correct eir
actions before this assumption is made.

If a player attempts to take an action that would violate the Rules the
Administrator or relevant minister shall refuse to recognize that action
unless the player specifically states that e is aware the action is
illegal but will attempt it anyway. 
}}

Revise rule 25, "The Administrator" by amending it to read as follows: 
{{

The Administrator is responsible for all game duties not assigned by the
Rules to other players.

The Administrator shall alter the rules and the game state only as
follows:

E shall update the game state to reflect actions legally taken and
rules-defined game events.

E shall create and distribute points when called upon to do so
by the Mutable Rules.

E shall alter the rules and game state as formally requested to do so by
players via procedures defined in the mutable rules.

If no players exist or it has become demonstrably impossible to make
changes to either the Physical Laws or the Mutable Rules e shall make such
changes to the rules and game state as are nescessary to ensure that
future play is possible.

}}

Revise rule 32 by appending the following to the third paragraph:
{{
Unless specified otherwise in the proposal, any new rule created is a
Mutable Rule.
}}

Revise rule 14 by appending the following:
{{
Forfeiting is equivalent to withdrawal of consent.
}}

Revise rule 18 by replacing "Ruleset" with "Mutable Rules" in the first
paragraph.

Repeal rule 33

Amend rule 152 by revising it to read as follows:
{{
Changes to the state of the game may only be made by an Action which is
permitted (elsewhere) by the Mutable Rules, or by the Administrator
performing eir duties.
}}

Amend rule 395 by deleting the first paragraph

Amend rule 154 by appending the following to the second paragraph:
{{
Players have an attribute named Respect.  Respect is a Dimension.
}}

Amend rule 33 by appending the following, first having replaced the string
"xxxx" with the serial number of the first rule created by this proposal.

{{ 
Chutzpah comparisons shall not be made between rules of different
types. As per rule xxxx physical laws always take precedence over other
types of rule, and mutable rules take precedence over charter rules.  }}
}}

{{ _Item Two_
This item is contingent upon item one and has no effect if item 1 fails.

Enact the following new mutable rule:
{{ 
__Charter Rules__
A Charter Rule applies to a subset of game entities, whether explicitly
named or specified by a set of characteristics.  A Charter Rule may
include methods for adding entities to or removing entities from the
Charter Rule's applicability.
}}

Should Dan gain points by the passage of this proposal, transfer 1/3 of
these points to Glotmorf.
}}

{{ _Item Three_
This item is contingent upon item 1 and has no effect if item 1 fails.

repeal rule 33

}}
}}

Dan Waldron ICQ 57894467

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 22:35:41 -0400
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Another CFJ
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[ I have no entropy displacement. Yay. ]]

I make the following subtly different CFJ:
{{
The following quantities are undefined:
* Baron von Skippy's Charm, Score, Respect, and Entropy
* Glotmorf's Respect and Entropy
* Rob's Score and Style
* The Voice's Score, Style, and Entropy
* Wild Card's Activity, Charm, Score, and Entropy
* Universal Entropy
Any statement about the numeric values of any of the above made in the
past nweek is false.
}}

[[ Wonko can be taken care of separately. ]]
-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 23:33:32 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Change to P765
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In Prop. 765:

Replace "Societies can submit proposals to the game ballot just as Players=
 can; these" with "A Society, if its public rules permit, can submit=
 proposals to the game ballot just as a Player can; these proposals".

						Glotmorf

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 23:46:47 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFI 754 Appeal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 5/30/02 at 2:55 PM Naath Thabana wrote:

>Statement: Wonko has won the game since the start of
>nweek 16. 
>
>
>Judgement: Indeed e did.
>Resoning: Dimships do not look at your dimensions
>every second, they only look at your dimensions when
>they establish you 'new' dimensions.  This means that
>when you buy you first it look at your actuall
>dimensions and adds whatever buyancy you selected to
>these.  Then, a second dimship will look at you're
>'new' dimensions when it goes to find your 'real'
>dimensions. 
>
>This does not mean you are in two places at once.
>1) you never actually left where you started.
>and 2) in any case this is like, if you had a car that
>ran out of fuel after 20 miles, then you got another
>car from there that went 20 miles and ran out of fuel
>etc.
>
>Yes Wonko did manage to increase his score beyond
>1000, so he won.
>
>So we can declared Wonko victorious in B-nomic. 
>Ignore everything else that went on since and start
>all over again.  I suggest calling it C-nomic.
>
>Naath

As a Member of the Upper House, I rule CFI 754 to be FALSE.

Analysis:

Wonko's claimed Win stems from eir assertion that owning five DimShips,=
 each set at buoyancy of Entropy 100, results in a cumulative Entropy of=
 approximately 541, which led to a sequence of events culminating in eir=
 scoring a Win.

For five DimShips to produce a cumulative buoyancy, Rule 493, the DimShips=
 rule, must apply to itself, in that the buoyancy of one DimShip can be=
 added to the virtual dimensions produced by another DimShip to in turn=
 produce new virtual dimensions.

If Rule 493 can be applied to itself, it would be impossible to determine=
 virtual dimensions, since virtual dimensions are based on real dimensions,=
 and the rule would require any check of real dimensions to use virtual=
 dimensions instead; this would have resulted in the game being in a state=
 of paradox from the earliest check of a virtual dimension, which was some=
 time prior to Wonko's actions, which would mean Wonko did not take eir=
 actions and thus did not score a Win.

If Rule 493 cannot be applied to itself, then the buoyancy of multiple=
 DimShips is not cumulative, which would invalidate Wonko's claim, which=
 would mean Wonko did not score a Win.

Therefore, under no circumstances did Wonko score a Win.

I have said.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:06:15 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Hopefully the last DimShip CFI
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[ Ya know...I just realized we've all been skirting the issue... ]]

CFI statement:

Virtual dimensions are determined by the adding of a single DimShip's=
 buoyancy to and the subtracting of the same DimShip's ballast from a=
 Player's real, unmodified dimensions.  Rule 493 does not now have, nor has=
 it ever had, recursive application; the effect of DimShips on a Player's=
 virtual dimensions is not cumulative.  At any given time, a Player uses no=
 more than one DimShip; if e has more than one, the one e uses is the one e=
 has explicitly declared that e uses, or, lacking that, the first one e=
 purchased.

Analysis:

I cite my analysis in my ruling on the appeal of CFI 754, and further state=
 that, if this CFI's statement is not true, the game has been broken for=
 some time, and it is my opinion that the game is not broken now.=
  Therefore, this CFI's statement is true.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:07:24 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFI 766 ruling
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[ Let's try it on the public forum now... ]]

On 6/1/02 at 3:51 AM Dan Waldron wrote:

>I submit the following CFI:
>
>{{
>Given that the rules exist to be interpreted by intelligent beings, and
>given that it might, through methods foreseen or unforeseen, become
>impossible to determine the value of various game values, and
>given that this has indeed happened, I submit the following statement:
>
>No player was awarded a win during nweek 16.
>
>My analysis follows.
>
>Rule 18/2 states that "With the exception of Rule Changes whatever is not
>prohibited or regulated by the Ruleset is permitted and unregulated."
>
>Indeterminate values are neither prohibited nor regulated.  Therefore it
>is up to us to come to some decision how they shall be dealt with.  The
>simplest means of dealing with an undefined value is to have the answer of
>any query made of it be "no", and this is the principle I suggest we apply
>here.  I do not suggest that we apply this principle indiscriminately, for
>example if the rules were to ask "is the value of x indeterminate?" it
>would be foolish to return an answer of "no" due to precedent if x were
>indeterminate.  However, in present circumstances the principle is quite
>simple to apply.
>
>Rule 27/2 states that "If at any time a player's score equals or exceeds
>1000 points, and that player's Charm and Activity are both greater than
>zero, that player is immediately awarded a Win."
>
>The rule asks the question "Is the value of any player's greater than or
>equal to 1000 points?"  In the case of Wonko and others whose score is
>indeterminate, the answer is "no."
>
>Furthermore, rule 440 asks the question "is the global Entropy greater
>than 500?" since the global Entropy is also indeterminate the answer
>should also be "no."
>
>}}

I rule this statement to be TRUE.

I agree with Plaintiff's analysis of the regulation of indeterminate=
 values; though I choose to interpret the current values publicly regarded=
 as indeterminate as being what they would be as the result of DimShips not=
 having cumulative effect.

I have said.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:17:25 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: In case the world doesn't end...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal:

{{ _DimShip Fixes_

Change Rule 493 to read:

{{ _DimShips_

There exists a type of object called a Dimensions Ship, also known as a=
 DimShip. 

A DimShip is capable of carrying a Player through DimSpace by taking on=
 virtual dimensional values: Buoyancy (positive virtual value) and Ballast=
 (negative virtual value). A DimShip can take on Buoyancy or Ballast or a=
 combination of the two, in any Dimension or combination of Dimensions. 

A Player riding a DimShip does not travel to a specific location in=
 DimSpace; rather, e displaces emself from eir current DimSpace location.=
  A Player may only ride a single DimShip at a time; the virtual dimensions=
 it generates are based on the Player's real, unmodified dimensions.  A=
 DimShip that is not being ridden is considered to be displaced from the=
 Origin.

Ballast and Buoyancy are each limited to 100. Each can be set to as much as=
 100, even at the same time, for displacement in single or multiple=
 dimensions. That is, no matter how many dimensions Ballast is gathered=
 for, total Ballast must be less than or equal to 100; same with Buoyancy. 

The cost to produce a DimShip is 100 score. 

A DimShip, once built, can be launched, which puts it into active use. A=
 DimShip that has been launched can be landed, which takes it out of active=
 use. DimShips can be landed at any time, and must be landed when adding=
 equipment or conducting repairs. A DimShip is automatically landed when=
 its ballast and buoyancy limits are zero. DimShips can be launched at the=
 end of the nweek. 

If a player owns a DimShip and has launched it, then rules other than this=
 one that check eir dimension values will check the values of eir virtual=
 dimensions. Rules that change the values of dimensions, though, will=
 change eir real dimensions.

}}

In Rule 635, change "DimShips can have" to "DimShips can have Equipment=
 called".

}}

						Glotmorf

"Oh, god, is the world ending?  I was going to do a paper on Bosnia=
 tonight, but, if the world's ending, I'm not gonna bother."
					-- Cordelia Chase

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:21:56 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Ministry Patch
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Prez of M-Tek makes this Club Prop:

{{ _Yes, you can play with my toys while I'm gone_

In Rule 625, replace "if e so chooses" with "if e so chooses, and/or if the=
 Minister is On Leave".

}}

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:29:05 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Grid move
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I run to (12,10).

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 00:52:24 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Change to the Upper House
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal:

{{ _Sorry, I'm On Break_

In the Charter of the Upper House:

Replace all instances of "CFJ" with "CFI".

Replace "three of its Members is chosen at random" with "three of its=
 Members who are not On Leave is chosen at random, or a panel is formed of=
 all the Members not On Leave if this is three or fewer Members".

}}

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:01:59 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Ships
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I land all *buzz* my Ships.

-- 
Wonk.

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:32:19 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: CFI
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I cease to recognize a state of Emergency.

<CFI>

Statement: DimShips do not change players' dimensions when they are used.

Defendant: None

Analysis by Plaintiff:

The DimShip rule, as has been established, seems to result in DimShip-using
players having undefined dimensions. However, if a dimension is undefined
then it is not a number, and Rule 153 says:
A Dimension is any numerical attribute of players which is defined as a
Dimension by the rules. A Dimension can in general have any real number as
its value, although specific Dimensions may have restrictions imposed on the
range of values they can take.

As r153 has a lower ordinal number than r493[[DimShips]], it supercedes it
by r33[[Chutzpah]]. Thus, r493 cannot make a dimension cease to be a number
without violating rule 153.

The DimShip rule therefore fails to modify any player's dimensions, as its
method of doing so would result in a violation of r153.

<CFI>

-- 
Wonko

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 19:42:14 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Let's do this right!
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I cease to *buzz* rec. a state of Emr.

<C F I>

I State: A Dim Ship does not change one's dims when it is used.

I Think:
[[
The DimShip rule, as has been established, seems to *buzz* result in
DimShip-using players having *crackle* undefined dimensions. However, if a
dimension is undefined then it is not a number, and Rule 153 says:
A Dimension *buzz* is any numerical attribute of players which is defined as
a Dimension by the rules. A Dimension can in general have any real number as
its value, although *crackle* specific Dimensions may have restrictions
imposed on the
range of values they can take.
As r153 has a lower ordinal number than r493[[DimShips]], it supercedes it
by *buzz* r33[[Chutzpah *buzz*]]. Thus, r493 cannot make a dimension
*crackle* cease to be a number without violating rule 153.

The DimShip rule therefore fails to modify any player's dimensions, as its
method of doing so would *crackle* result in a violation of r153.
]]
<CFI>

-- 
Wonk.
[[hates *buzz* entropy limits]]

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: I could call it Gnomilogue, but that would be stealing an idea...
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 22:38:07 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I make the following proposal:

{{
__Foomp!__

[[Well, it was another lovely day on the Grid. The sun was shining, the 
world was upside-down, a Crisis had been declared by 6 players, and I was up 
to my ankles in Mud. Lovely. As I squelched there gently, waiting for a new 
nweek and the conclusion of this round of disasters, I looked upwards, 
bored. I was bored because I couldn't do anything with the Football. I 
couldn't do anything with the Football because it was halfway across the 
Grid.
      As I looked up, I saw six things like ugly weather balloons pop into 
existence almost above me and fly in formation north and a little east, 
towards Wonko's (Grid) position. "I wonder if shooting them down would make 
his other dimensions defined again?" I wondered. Really, the random 
flickerings as his dimensions shot from one end of undefined to the other 
were pretty at first, but got a bit annoying after a while. As I watched 
them go, my belt-mounted mini-radar suddenly began beeping wildly. I pulled 
the thing off and looked at the display. There at (11,10) I was, and just 
east, at (12,10)... a blip. Hmm.
      Let's see, a Bonus Box... could be a lot of things, among them a White 
hole, Gnomes, points... a wide grin crossed my face at the very idea of all 
the good things that could happen. So, I pulled my feet free of the mud, 
and, minus my right shoe, which hadn't deigned to come with me, wandered 
over to the Box.
      Upon reaching (12,10), I dug around for a bit, until the Box was 
before me, shining dully in the sunlight. I grabbed the lid and opened it, 
reached in, and pulled out... a limp arm? Suddenly, a hissing sound of 
compressed air being released told me I had gotten more than I had bargained 
for. As the Siren expanded, I tried to run, but then the song started. A 
melody soothing and attracting, luring and possessing, it was all I could do 
to take another step, then another, then...
      Rooted to the spot, I fought to ignore the creature, but I knew I was 
trapped. Unless... I grabbed my Omni-Gadget with the wireless modem and 
fired off an entry to Rules.nom, hoping it might save me.]]

Add to the end of section B of Rule 441/2 the following SHESGOTME delimited 
text:

SHESGOTME
B.14. Bomb Gnomes

There exist Gnomes of type Bomb. A player with a Bomb Gnome may throw it at 
a Grid location, a Big Rock, or another player. If a player throws a Bomb 
Gnome at a Grid Location, the Bomb Gnome is destroyed and that Grid 
location's substance becomes Fire for one nweek. If a player throws a Bomb 
Gnome at a Big Rock, the Bomb Gnome is destroyed and that Big Rock and any 
Sirens on it are destroyed. If a player throws a Bomb Gnome at another 
player, and the targeted player fails to catch it within 3 ndays, the Bomb 
Gnome is destroyed, the targeted player loses 15 points, the targeted player 
is placed in Limbo, and the substance of eir Grid location is set to Fire 
for one nweek. If the targeted player catches the Bomb Gnome, 1d(4-n) is 
rolled, where n is the number of times the Bomb Gnome has been thrown. On a 
1, the Bomb Gnome is destroyed, the targeted player loses 15 points, the 
targeted player is placed in Limbo, and the substance of eir Grid location 
is set to Fire for one nweek.
SHESGOTME

Add to the end of section C of Rule 441/2 the following HELPME delimited 
text:

HELPME
A Fire Gnome plus an Air Gnome plus an Earth Gnome makes a Bomb Gnome.
HELPME

[[Then, my resistance wearing thin, I waited. I tried biting my lip, hoping 
the pain would keep me in reality. Then, just as I felt I would soon bite 
completely through, there was a beep from my Omni-Gadget. Success! Good. 
Looking into my Gnome Bag, I grabbed the needed Gnomes and rammed them 
together at high speed. Taking the resulting Bomb Gnome, I spun around and 
hurled it at the Siren.

      That was three months ago. I'm still here, and she's still singing. A 
tip to all of you: when you throw a Gnome, make sure you take aim first. 
Sorry, Wonko. How's Limbo?]]
}}

                                                 -BvS-

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 22:45:18 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Offers
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[ Offers are sort of like mini-contracts that only involve two parties and=
 very specific actions.  Anything more complex than that could probably be=
 done as a Society. ]]

{{ _I'll Make You an Offer You Can't Accept_

{{ _Offers_

An Offer is a set of required actions that two entities (Parties) agree to=
 be bound by.  A Party agrees to be bound by an Offer when e Commits to it.=
  One Party, the Offeror, Commits to the Offer when e creates it by posting=
 its terms on the public forum.  The other Party, the Acceptor, Commits to=
 the Offer when e states on the public forum that e agrees to (Accepts) the=
 Offer.

The Offeror may restrict what entities are permitted to Accept the Offer,=
 either by naming them explicitly or stating characteristics that include=
 certain entities; if no such restriction is made, any entity is permitted=
 to Accept the Offer.  At least one entity must be permitted to Accept the=
 Offer.  The Offeror may withdraw the Offer at any time prior to its=
 Acceptance.

An action that an Offer can require of a Party can be either a Gift or a=
 Service.  A Gift is a transfer of game resources from the required Party=
 to the other Party.  A Service is a game action that the required Party=
 must perform; this game action must be accompanied by a Time Limit before=
 which the action must be performed, and may be accompanied by a=
 Contingency, which is a specification of game resources the required Party=
 must transfer to the other Party if the action is not performed before the=
 Time Limit.

If a Party is responsible for a Gift, or if a Party is responsible for a=
 Service that includes a Contingency, the resources stated in the Gift or=
 Contingency are removed from the Party's possession when the Party Commits=
 to the Offer.  Said resources (known as Escrow) are held by the Offer=
 until the Offer is Concluded.

If an Offer involves no Services, the Offer is Concluded when two Parties=
 Commit to it.  At that time, resources held in Escrow are transferred to=
 the Parties intended to receive them.

If an Offer involves Services, or Gifts and Services, the Offer is=
 Concluded when all Services are Performed or Defaulted.  A Service is=
 Performed if the Party responsible for the Service performs the action=
 specified by the Service before the Time Limit specified by the Service; a=
 Service is Defaulted if said Party fails to perform said action before the=
 Time Limit.  Once all Services are Performed or Defaulted, if any=
 Defaulted Services in the Offer do not have Contingencies, all Escrow is=
 returned to the Parties that originally provided it; otherwise, Escrow for=
 Gifts is transferred to the receiving Party, Escrow for Contingencies of=
 Defaulted Services is transferred to the receiving Party, and Escrow for=
 Contingencies of Performed Services is returned to the providing Party.

A Party cannot Commit to an Offer if e cannot perform the actions in=
 Services that would be required of em, or if e does not have the resources=
 for Gifts or Contingencies that would be required of em.

}}

}}

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:48:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Waldron <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
cc: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Let's do this right!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> 
> The DimShip rule therefore fails to modify any player's dimensions, as its
> method of doing so would *crackle* result in a violation of r153.
> ]]
> <CFI>

Wow.  Good thing you caught that.  I guess that pretty much solves all of
our problems.

In case we ever have to make a decision about an undefined value, although
that is much less likely than I thought, I'd like to answer some comments
about how I suggested we would.

"So basically, what you're saying is, let's decide that indeterminate
values are whatever we want them to be. I ask 'Is my score not equal to
92?'; we then decide whether or not to apply the principle of 'no' to it.
I ask 'Is my score 92?'; we decide again what the answer is, based on
whatever we feel like thinking."

"Why not just say 'the answer to any query is whatever we want it to be'?
-Because what you want and what we want are very different. What it sounds
to me like Dan wants is a way to not break the game. It seems perfectly
sensible to me. If you ask "is my score not equal to 92" we say we can't
tell. If you ask "is my score greater than 92, because if it is, x
happens," we say "no" to prevent x from happening for the time being,
until we can tell what your score /is./ I've probably confused things more
here, but does that make sense?"

Well the values themselves are protected from player tampering.  So even
if my score is undefined I can't declare it to arbitrarily be something
that it might not be.  If a value is undefined there is no way we know for
sure that it can fit within any range.  So the answer is always false.

To establish something like "the player with the lowest score" the
simplest system would be:

Does player a have the lowest score?
Does player b have the lowest score?
Does player c have the lowest score?
...

This would be divided up into

Is score(a) < score(b)
Is score(a) < score(c)
...

Is score(b) < score(a)
Is score(b) < score(c)
...

anytime a player is refered to who has an undefined score the answer is
false.  So no player has the lowest score.

Dan Waldron
ICQ 57894467

From: "The Voice" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: *sigh of relief*  and proposal
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:23:21 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[
I hereby desist in my act of recognizing an emergency as per r0.

{{ __Hold on a sec there!__

Set all players' Entropy Dimension to 100.

}}
]]

[[
This blows up the Grid and gives us a little breathing room as per Entropy 
restrictions.
]]

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:26:58 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: 757 - The C F I
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[
CFJ 757/0
CFI by Baron von Skippy
Assigned Judge: Wonko

Statement: No player has been awarded a Win based upon eir virtual
dimensions as set by eir DimShips.

Analysis: Rule 493: "Ballast and Buoyancy are each limited to 100. Each can
be set to as much as 100, even at the same time, for displacement in single
or multiple dimensions. That is, no matter how many dimensions Ballast is
gathered for, total Ballast must be less than or equal to 100; same with
Buoyancy." Regardless of updates to eir dimensions, players are not awarded
higher or lower points, entropy, or any dimension past the values set by eir
virtual dimensions, that is, changing the value of one's score Buoyancy does
not change one's actual score, because only "Rules that change the values of
dimensions, though, will change eir real dimensions." (Rule 493 again)
Therefore, no one's dimensions are changed by eir DimShips any further from
eir actual dimensions than the Buoyancy and Ballast of eir Dimships.
Defendant: Rob 
]]

I Judge Call 757 TRUE.

[[Analysis: the plaintiff's reasoning is irrelevant; the fact is that the
only effect DimShips could have on player's dimensions is to make them
undefined, which would violate at least one higher-precedence rule. Thus,
DimShips do not affect player's values, and nobody wins because of one.]]
-- 
Wonk.

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:38:50 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Repairs - On Leave__

In rule 205, append after the text "and may not take any game actions" the
text " except placing emself Off Leave"

Change the gamestate to what it would have been had this change been in
effect from the creation of rule 205 until the beginning of nweek 17.
}}

-- 
Wonko

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:40:34 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Grrrr....
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[
{{
__Repairs - On Leave__

In rule 205, append after the text "and may not take any game actions" the
text " except placing emself Off Leave"

Change the gamestate to what it would have been had this change been in
effect from the creation of rule 205 until the beginning of nweek 17.
}}

-- 
Wonko
-- 
Wonko
]]

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:42:01 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Quote
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[Quote from a public forum msg]]:

{{
__Repairs - On Leave__

In rule 205, append after the text "and may not take any game actions" the
text " except placing emself Off Leave"

}}

-- 
Wonko

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:45:10 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: vSOI
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I acc. *crack.* B v S's inv. to v S O I.
*buzz*
-- 
Wonk.

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:05:23 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Win
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I pick *buzz* up all Gnomes on my square.

I Throw Out all my Gnomes [[Garbage *crackle* can at (12,12), I get 5 points
each, 2 Gnomes = +10 points]]

I buy 4 rand. Gnomes [[I *buzz* lose 2 points each, 4 Gnomes = -8 points]]

I Throw *buzz* Out all my Gnomes. [[+20 points]]

I buy 10 rand. Gnomes. [[-20 points]]

I Throw Out all my *buzz* Gnomes. [[+50 points]]

I buy 25 rand. Gnomes. [[-50 points]]

I *buzz* Throw Out all my Gnomes [[+125 points]]

I buy 40 rand. Gnomes. [[-80 points]]

I Throw Out all my Gnomes. [[ *crackle* +200 points]]

I buy *buzz* 100 rand. Gnomes [[-200 points]]

I Throw Out all my Gnomes. [[+500 points *crackle*]]

I buy 200 rand. Gnomes. *buzz* [[-404 points]]

I buy two Sheep Gnomes and put them both in my bag. [[-8 points]]

I Throw Out all my Gnomes but the two Sheep Gnomes. [[+1000 points.
*crackle* I win.]]

-- 
Wonk.
*buzz*

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:01:52 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Finally!
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Now that *crackle* Entropy has cleared itself,

{{
__Repairs - On Leave__

In rule 205, append after the text "and may not take any game actions" the
text " except placing emself Off Leave"

}}

{{
__Fix the *crackle* Game state__

Change the Gamestate to reflect what the website would say if all actions
taken since the last time the website was updated were put into the website
first.
}}

{{
__Wonko *buzz* is mad__

Remove the sentence "If a player's Entropy exceeds ((Maximum Entropy) / (#
of players)), all eir messages posted to the public forum must consist of
words of one syllable." from rule 440.

[[It makes the rules ugly. And it's just plain irritating.]]
}}

-- 
Wonko
*buzz*

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:23:53 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Deflating Recycling
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _Deflating Recycling_

In Subsection A.7 of Rule 441, replace "5 points" with "1 point".

}}

						Glotmorf

[[ Can I kick the Baron in the ass now? :) ]]

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:41:08 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Win 2
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Very well...

According to Rule 22, when Wonko was awarded a Win (assuming someone=
 doesn't see a loophole in it...I'm afraid I can't), the effects in Rule=
 440 kicked in.

According to Rule 440, I (along with everyone else) get 10 points, and am=
 in Limbo.

I re-enter the Grid at (12,11).

I buy 5 random Gnomes for 10 points.

I Throw Out all 5 Gnomes and gain 25 points.

I buy 12 random Gnomes for 24 points.

I Throw Out all 12 Gnomes and gain 60 points.

I buy 30 random Gnomes for 60 points.

I Throw Out all 30 Gnomes and gain 150 points.

I buy 75 random Gnomes for 150 points.

I Throw Out all 75 Gnomes and gain 375 points.

I buy 187 random Gnomes for 374 points.

I Throw Out all 187 Gnomes and gain 935 points.

I buy 467 random Gnomes for 934 points.

I Throw Out all 467 Gnomes and gain 2335 points.

I win too. :)

Anyone else want to get in on this? :)

						Glotmorf

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:03:17 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Naath=20Thabana?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: copy/paste
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Very well...

According to Rule 22, when who-ever-did-this-last was
awarded a Win (assuming someone 
doesn't see a loophole in it...I'm afraid I can't),
the effects in Rule 
440 kicked in.

According to Rule 440, I (along with everyone else)
get 10 points, and 
am in Limbo.

I re-enter the Grid at (12,11).

I buy 5 random Gnomes for 10 points.

I Throw Out all 5 Gnomes and gain 25 points.

I buy 12 random Gnomes for 24 points.

I Throw Out all 12 Gnomes and gain 60 points.

I buy 30 random Gnomes for 60 points.

I Throw Out all 30 Gnomes and gain 150 points.

I buy 75 random Gnomes for 150 points.

I Throw Out all 75 Gnomes and gain 375 points.

I buy 187 random Gnomes for 374 points.

I Throw Out all 187 Gnomes and gain 935 points.

I buy 467 random Gnomes for 934 points.

I Throw Out all 467 Gnomes and gain 2335 points.

I win too. :)

Naath

=====
Like duct tape the force is, a light side and a dark side it has, holds the universe together it does, hmm.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: I win
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:47:47 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I re-enter the Grid at (12,11).

I buy 5 random Gnomes for 10 points.

I Throw Out all 5 Gnomes and gain 25 points.

I buy 12 random Gnomes for 24 points.

I Throw Out all 12 Gnomes and gain 60 points.

I buy 30 random Gnomes for 60 points.

I Throw Out all 30 Gnomes and gain 150 points.

I buy 75 random Gnomes for 150 points.

I Throw Out all 75 Gnomes and gain 375 points.

I buy 187 random Gnomes for 374 points.

I Throw Out all 187 Gnomes and gain 935 points.

I buy 467 random Gnomes for 934 points.

I Throw Out all 467 Gnomes and gain 2335 points.

I win too. :)

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:53:44 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Win 2a
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

No, Wonko's right.  The Grid does become not of type Fire, but not before=
 the end of the nweek, so I lose five points as soon as I land at (12,11).=
  Which means anyone who cut-and-pasted my previous scam didn't score a Win=
 either.  But that still leaves me five points after the burn, and that's=
 enough for two Gnomes...

So, just for future reference, please file this as a single action under=
 the name vSOI Member Gnome Scam (the non-vSOI-Member Gnome Scam is=
 slightly different, since the Gnomes cost more for non-Members):

{{

I re-enter the Grid at (12,11).

I buy 2 random Gnomes for 4 points.

I Throw Out both Gnomes for 10 points.

I buy 5 random Gnomes for 10 points.

I Throw Out all 5 Gnomes and gain 25 points.

I buy 12 random Gnomes for 24 points.

I Throw Out all 12 Gnomes and gain 60 points.

I buy 30 random Gnomes for 60 points.

I Throw Out all 30 Gnomes and gain 150 points.

I buy 75 random Gnomes for 150 points.

I Throw Out all 75 Gnomes and gain 375 points.

I buy 187 random Gnomes for 374 points.

I Throw Out all 187 Gnomes and gain 935 points.

I buy 467 random Gnomes for 934 points.

I Throw Out all 467 Gnomes and gain 2335 points.

}}

I hereby perform a vSOI Member Gnome Scam.

I score a Win.

						Glotmorf

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Another win
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:59:48 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I hereby perform a vSOI Member Gnome Scam.

I score a Win.

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:54:43 -0400
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Another win
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 02:59:48PM -0400, bd wrote:
> I hereby perform a vSOI Member Gnome Scam.
> 
> I score a Win.

Not yet, you don't.

I recognize a State of Emergency. (It really is justified, as without it
this nweek will never finish. Now aren't all of you feeling guilty for
not accepting my proposal that would make it impossible for two
successive wins to occur?)
-- 
Rob Speer

From: bd <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Another win
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 15:56:43 -0400
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[Argh! Quit munging the from thingies!]]

I recognize a state of emergency, too.

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:38:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Waldron <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: bah
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[If you look at the roster page you will see that my charm is too low for
me to score a win by points.  So in the bitter spirit that pervades "fair
play"...]]

I recognize a state of emergency.

Dan Waldron
ICQ 57894467

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:53:10 -0400
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Another win
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth Wonko,

> Quoth bd,
> 
>> [[Argh! Quit munging the from thingies!]]
>> 
>> I recognize a state of emergency, too.
>> 
> 
> As do I.

Oops. Let's do this right. I recognize a state of emergency

-- 
Wonko

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 18:07:20 -0400
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Another win
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth bd,

> I hereby perform a vSOI Member Gnome Scam.
> 
> I score a Win.

You can't - the first part, reentering the Grid at (12,11) is illegal, as
Mr. Morf is already there.

<spiteful>

I buy a Pinball gun with 2 of my 10 points.
I enter the Grid at (11,11).
I shoot Glotmorf with my PinBall gun. [[Burning off, in the process, the
rest of eir points in the fires of the Grid.]]

-- 
Wonko

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:33:40 +0100 (BST)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: emergency?
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If it will help, I also recognise a state of emergency.... these "wins"
(which arent cause the clock stoped after the first gnome scam win) are
getting out of hand... The rules for wins would be fine for a "normal "
win awardwed due to normal point accumulation during play, but fall down
when people try to copy this type of scam... 

cheers,
Iain (who certainly inteneded to vote for Rob's sucsecive wins
proposal...)

 On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, David E. Smith wrote:

> I'll be going through the whole list of queued actions since the last
> Recognizer mail this evening. I know a couple people had un-recognized the
> emergency (back when it was the previous emergency); I *think* we now have
> a quorum for that, but it'll be a while before I'm sure.
> 
> ...dave
> 
> 
> ---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis, MO 63151
> http://www.technopagan.org/     http://metadave.net/
> http://www.bureau42.com/        http://whatIsay.com/
> 
> 

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:59:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (APOCALYPSE EDITION) (Tuesday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"crash fix" is 760/1.

The Voice rules on CFI 764, then appeals eir own ruling. Whee! The Upper
House selects Rob, Naath, and Baron von Skippy.

"Introducing Physical Law" is 759/2. And it looks a little wonky
(unbalanced braces, "A La Carte Prop" declaration in the middle, and other
oddness that sorta makes it look like it was an edit-in-progress when
posted).

Rob's "subtly different" CFI is 767, assigned to bd.

"Less is More: Clubs" is 765/2.

Glotmorf (of the Upper House) rules FALSE on CFI 754.

Glotmorf's "skirting the issue" CFI is 768, assigned to Iain.

Glotmorf rules TRUE on CFI 766.

"DimShip Fixes" is 769/0.

"Yes, you can play with my toys while I'm gone" is 770/0. (M-TEK)

Glotmorf Runs on the Grid. E finds a Shiny Thing!

"Sorry, I'm On Break" is 771/0.

Wonko lands all DimShips, and un-recognizes the Emergency. (5)

Wonko's "DimShips don't work" CFI is 772, assigned to The Voice. (1441)

"Foomp!" is 773/0.

"I'll Make You An Offer You Can't Accept" is 774/0.

The Voice un-recognizes the pending Emergency. (4)

"Hold on a sec there!" is 775/0.

Wonko rules TRUE on CFI 757.

"Repairs - On Leave" is 776/0 (and blatantly illegal, due to its rewriting
of history, and also irrelevant since the rules don't actually say that
coming Off Leave is an Action).

Wonko joins vSOI.

Wonko Wins. Remember, with recycling, everybody Wins! (1474)

The Clock immediately turns off (as of yesterday evening) from the
aforementioned Win.

(I haven't yet zeroed out everyone's dimensions because that'll be a bit
of not-fun. And I've got a couple days to do it. :)

"Fix the *crackle* Game state" is 777/0 (and I'm not sure what it's trying
to accomplish).

"Wonko *buzz* is mad" is 778/0.

"Deflating Recycling" is 779/0.

Glotmorf can't Win right now, as the Clock is Off from Wonko's Win. (1482)
Ditto for Naath (1492), bd (1493), Glotmorf's second attempt (1494), bd's
second attempt (1495)...

Rob recognizes an Emergency (5).
bd recognizes an Emergency (6).
Dan recognizes an Emergency (7).

There's only 13 players, and that's more than half, so Rule Zero fires
off. Holy bleep.

The Administrator throws his hands up in shock and confusion at this
point.

...dave

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:08:49 -0400
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Emergency
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Neat.

Now that we're in an Emergency, we have to go through the steps. Call me
unimaginative, but I suggest we establish Dave as the Administrator and
[email-masked] as the Forum.

-- 
Rob Speer

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFI 767 - FALSE
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:09:13 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rob's statement: {{
Statement: The following quantities are undefined:=20

* Baron von Skippy's Charm, Score, Respect, and Entropy=20
* Glotmorf's Respect and Entropy
 * Rob's Score and Style
 * The Voice's Score, Style, and Entropy
 * Wild Card's Activity, Charm, Score, and Entropy
 * Universal Entropy

 Any statement about the numeric values of any of the above made in the p=
ast=20
nweek is false.=20
}}

My ruling: FALSE

My reasoning: {{
Rule 153/2 says:
 A Dimension is any numerical attribute of players which is defined as a=20
Dimension by the rules. A Dimension can in general have any real number a=
s=20
its value, although specific Dimensions may have restrictions imposed on =
the=20
range of values they can take [e.g. scores may not be -ve].=20

This requires dimensions to be real numbers, which are defined. Therefore=
, all=20
dimensions are defined.
}}

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Emergency
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:09:46 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tuesday 04 June 2002 7:08 pm, Rob Speer wrote:
> Neat.
>
> Now that we're in an Emergency, we have to go through the steps. Call m=
e
> unimaginative, but I suggest we establish Dave as the Administrator and
> [email-masked] as the Forum.

Err... I guess I vote for this?

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:09:32 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Initializing the Pause...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I start working my way through Rule Zero.

Game time is stopped. (It was stopped anyway, but what the Hell.)

I propose that we continue to use the spoon-business list as a Forum.

I propose that I continue as the Administrator.

(Those are just to clear the requirements of the Procedure, sections 2 and
3 respectively.)

The Pause is initialized. Today is Day 0 of the Pause. It'll kick over to
Day 1 of the Pause in about an hour, due to ill timing on my part.

For the sake of not disrupting game continuity too much, I'll probably
have a separate Web page for Refresh Proposals (and I've already started
working on mine).

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis, MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/     http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/        http://whatIsay.com/

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Initializing the Pause...
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:11:26 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tuesday 04 June 2002 7:09 pm, David E. Smith wrote:
> I start working my way through Rule Zero.
>
> Game time is stopped. (It was stopped anyway, but what the Hell.)
>
> I propose that we continue to use the spoon-business list as a Forum.

I vote YES.

> I propose that I continue as the Administrator.

I vote YES.

> (Those are just to clear the requirements of the Procedure, sections 2 =
and
> 3 respectively.)
>
> The Pause is initialized. Today is Day 0 of the Pause. It'll kick over =
to
> Day 1 of the Pause in about an hour, due to ill timing on my part.
>
> For the sake of not disrupting game continuity too much, I'll probably
> have a separate Web page for Refresh Proposals (and I've already starte=
d

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:12:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: unanimous consent?
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Since the rules are sorta suspended at this point, we can play a bit more
informally for a few days...

Would anyone be annoyed if I just propose a sorta "unanimous consent" vote
for Steps 2 and 3?

If nobody objects to the continuance of the existing Forum and
Administrator in, say, 48 hours, we'll proceed.

(Oh, by the way, The Pause didn't actually Initialize, since we have to
agree on the above before that happen. My bad.)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis, MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/     http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/        http://whatIsay.com/

From: bd <[email-masked]>
Subject: Fwd: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: unanimous consent?
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:17:10 -0400
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tuesday 04 June 2002 7:12 pm, David E. Smith wrote:
> Since the rules are sorta suspended at this point, we can play a bit mo=
re
> informally for a few days...
>
> Would anyone be annoyed if I just propose a sorta "unanimous consent" v=
ote
> for Steps 2 and 3?
>
> If nobody objects to the continuance of the existing Forum and
> Administrator in, say, 48 hours, we'll proceed.

Fine. Whatever.

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:22:24 -0400
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh Proposal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I submit this Refresh Proposal:

__Refreshingly Simple__
{{
1. Cancel all pending actions that would occur after the Clock turns
back on.

2. In rule 441 [[Gnomes]], section A.7 [[Garbage Cans]], change the text
"5 points" to "no points". [[You can set it to something reasonable once
the other costs are adjusted.]]

3. Destroy all DimShips. 
[[If they actually worked, they would give an unfair advantage, upon
reset, to people who own them. No refund is necessary now.]]

4. Restart the Clock.
}}

-- 
Rob Speer

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh proposal
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:24:12 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Create the following refresh proposal:

{{
=09Replace the paragraph after {{ A.7. Garbage Cans }} in rule 441/2 with=
 the
=09following text:
=09{{
=09=09There exist objects called Garbage Cans. Garbage Cans are passable,
=09=09stationary objects. There is a Garbage Can at each Elbonian Airways
=09=09location. Any player who holds a Gnome and is in a square consecuti=
ve to a
=09=09square that conatains a Garbage Can may Throw Out a Gnome in eir po=
ssession,
=09=09destroying the Gnome and gaining 1 point.=20
=09}}
=09Set all player's score dimensions to 10.
=09Destroy all gnomes in a player's possession.
=09Restart the clock.
}}

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:25:30 -0400
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Refresh Proposal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay, actually, it sounds like Dave knows what he's doing. I withdraw my
Refresh Proposal in support of Dave's.

-- 
Rob Speer

From: bd <[email-masked]>
Subject: Fwd: spoon-business: Refresh proposal
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:29:02 -0400
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Replace my current refresh proposal with  the following refresh proposal:

{{
=09Replace the paragraph after {{ A.7. Garbage Cans }} in rule 441/2 with=
 the
=09following text:
=09{{
=09=09There exist objects called Garbage Cans. Garbage Cans are passable,
=09=09stationary objects. There is a Garbage Can at each Elbonian Airways
=09=09location. Any player who holds a Gnome and is in a square consecuti=
ve to a
=09=09square that conatains a Garbage Can may Throw Out a Gnome in eir
 possession, destroying the Gnome and gaining 1 point.
=09}}
=09Set all player's score dimensions to 10.
=09Destroy all gnomes.
=09Cancel all pending actions.
=09Set the number of points in the vSOI gnome account to 0.
=09Increase bd's Respace by 1. [[ for fixing this mess ]]
=09Restart the clock.
}}

To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: Proposed r0 proposal
From: "Jonathan D. Amery" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 00:40:40 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Refresh proposal:

{{
 All normal gameplay ceases.

 Players are anyone who was a player during nweek 16, plus the
Administrator.

 [email-masked] is a public forum.

 [email-masked] is not a public forum.

 Constitutional changes may be proposed on any public forum by any
player, and may change anything.

 Any constitutional change that is objected to by two players less
than 72 hours after it was proposed is defeated, and is removed from
consideration and ceases to exist.

 Any constitutional change that has not been objected to by two
players is put into affect 72 hours after it was proposed.  

 If at any point no constitutional change has been accepted within the
last three days, and it is at least 5 days after the process started,
then normal gameplay resumes at the beginning of nweek 18.
}}

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Another win
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:44:05 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 > [[Argh! Quit munging the from thingies!]]
 >
 > I recognize a state of emergency, too.
 >

As do I.
--
Wonko

-Hell, that's eight (I think), but I recognize a State [[of Emergency]] 
anyway.-

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Emergency
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:50:28 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tuesday 04 June 2002 7:08 pm, Rob Speer wrote:
Neat.

Now that we're in an Emergency, we have to go through the steps. Call me 
unimaginative, but I suggest we establish Dave as the Administrator and 
[email-masked] as the Forum.

-I'll go with that.-

                                              -BvS-

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:52:09 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh Prop.
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Simplicity is Best__

Amend to section A.7 of rule 441 the sentence "Players may not Throw Out
Gnomes."

Adjust the gamestate so that no player is recognizing an Emergency.

Set the Clock to nweek 17, nday 6, and turn the Clock On.
[[This is the absolute minimum neccessary to get the game going again. I
personally think that refresh proposals should do just that - get the game
going so we can fix things through normal means.]]

}}

-- 
Wonko

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 22:55:49 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Emergency 2.0
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Ya know, if we're going to have states of emergency, we should probably=
 name the damn things, so that if someone recognizes one state of emergency=
 but doesn't recognize another, the later emergency isn't recognized by=
 failure to cancel recognition.

Nevertheless, I recognize this new state of emergency.  I helped create it,=
 after all.

I also concur with certain feelings regarding totally levelling the playing=
 field.  The Win rule was written long before Gremlins, Gnomes, DimShips=
 and the like were invented.  The zeroing of all dimensions was supposed to=
 start the game over from an all-things-being-equal standpoint.  Caches of=
 game objects doesn't allow that; the veterans still have an edge.

I therefore advocate the destruction of all Gnomes, all pick-uppable Grid=
 objects other than Gremlins (which have application outside the Grid=
 anyway), and, with reluctance, all DimShips.  Let us all start fresh and=
 new with the current rules...with a modification or two.

Finally...this nweek has been so saturated with Wonko's two Win scams that=
 it hasn't been possible to think of anything else.  So let's just start=
 the nweek over, wipe out the current ballot, discard any CFIs submitted=
 this nweek and go from there.  If the Clock were to restart tomorrow, we'd=
 have a mess of meaningless props and CFIs and one nday to clean it all up=
 in before the voting period.  I submit that this is a Bad Thing.

So.  Mr. A has a refresh proposal from me on file.  I'd like to replace it=
 with the following:

{{ _Glotmorf's R0E2.0 Refresh Prop_

Replace the text of Rule 493 with:

{{

There exists a type of object called a Dimensions Ship, also known as a=
 DimShip. 

A DimShip is capable of carrying a Player through DimSpace by taking on=
 virtual dimensional values: Buoyancy (positive virtual value) and Ballast=
 (negative virtual value). A DimShip can take on Buoyancy or Ballast or a=
 combination of the two, in any Dimension or combination of Dimensions. 

A Player riding a DimShip does not travel to a specific location in=
 DimSpace; rather, e displaces emself from eir current DimSpace location.=
  A Player may only ride a single DimShip at a time; the virtual dimensions=
 it generates are based on the Player's real, unmodified dimensions.  A=
 DimShip that is not being ridden is considered to be displaced from the=
 Origin.

Ballast and Buoyancy are each limited to 100. Each can be set to as much as=
 100, even at the same time, for displacement in single or multiple=
 dimensions. That is, no matter how many dimensions Ballast is gathered=
 for, total Ballast must be less than or equal to 100; same with Buoyancy. 

The cost to produce a DimShip is 100 score. 

A DimShip, once built, can be launched, which puts it into active use. A=
 DimShip that has been launched can be landed, which takes it out of active=
 use. DimShips can be landed at any time, and must be landed when adding=
 equipment or conducting repairs. A DimShip is automatically landed when=
 its ballast and buoyancy limits are zero. DimShips can be launched at the=
 end of the nweek. 

If a player owns a DimShip and has launched it, then rules other than this=
 one that check eir dimension values will check the values of eir virtual=
 dimensions. Rules that change the values of dimensions, though, will=
 change eir real dimensions.

}}

In Rule 635, change all instances of "DimShips can have" to "DimShips can=
 have Equipment called".

Replace the text of Subsection A.7 of Rule 441 with:

{{

There exist objects called Garbage Cans. Garbage Cans are passable,=
 stationary objects. There is a Garbage Can at each Elbonian Airways=
 location. Any player who holds a Gnome and is in a square consecutive to a=
 square that conatains a Garbage Can may Throw Out a Gnome in eir=
 possession, destroying the Gnome and gaining 1 point. 

}}

Give Wonko the title, "Lord of the Gnome Scam".

Give Baron von Skippy [[ Wonko couldn't have done it without em ]] and=
 Glotmorf [[ for realizing it in its more insidious form ]] the title,=
 "Knight of the Gnome Scam".

Destroy all DimShips.

Destroy all Gnomes.

Discard all proposals and CFIs made since the end of nweek 16 with no=
 penalty to their submitters.

Set the Clock to nweek 17, nday 1.

Restart the Clock.

}} [[ End of Refresh Prop ]]

						Glotmorf

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 23:27:32 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Change to current refresh proposal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mr. A...In my most recent refresh proposal, in the last paragraph of the=
 text I intend to replace the DimShip rule with, please add "and events"=
 after the second occurrence of the word "rules".

						Glotmorf

From: "Wonko the Sane" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: DimShip rewrite
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 16:01:22 +0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>If a player owns a DimShip and has launched it, then rules other than this 
>one that check eir dimension values will check the values of eir virtual 
>dimensions. Rules that change the values of dimensions, though, will change 
>eir real dimensions.

I'm still a little leery of two things - 'check' and 'virtual'. I'm still 
not convinced that the virtual things work, and it's not always clear 
whether or not a rule is actually 'checking' something or not. Besides, why 
distinguish between checking and setting? I'd suggest something like this:

"If a player owns an Active DimShip, then eir dimensions shall be treated as 
if they were equal to the sum of eir actual dimensions and the virtual 
dimensions contained by the Active DimShip. The previous sentence does not 
apply to this rule."

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh prop.
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:49:23 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I replace my Refresh proposal with the following:

{{
Cancel all pending actions.
Destroy all gnomes.
Enact a new rule with the following text:
{{
__Temporary fix__
Players may not use Garbage Cans. All dimships have a maximum of 0 total=20
buoyancy and 0 total ballast. This rule takes precedence over rule 441 an=
d=20
rule 493.

[[ We should do a permanent fix with regular props. and then repeal this.=
 ]]

}}
Set the score of all players to 10.
Alter the gamestate such that no players are Recognizing an Emergency. [[=
 Not=20
necessary, but I don't want ambiguity. ]]
Restart the Clock.
}}

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:44:04 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Naath=20Thabana?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: sorry
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I um, go On Leave, if I can.  If not, I'm just not
around.  I'm really sorry, but my brat bro managed to
get our internet removed 'cos he used it too much...
so I have little 'net access... and hence, no time to
play nomic... 

Naath
really really sorry.  back asap.

=====
Like duct tape the force is, a light side and a dark side it has, holds the universe together it does, hmm.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:13:17 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh Proposal
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I submit another Refresh Proposal:

{{
__Rinse and Repeat__

Replace the number 5 in Subsection A.7 of Rule 441 with a 1.

Give Wonko the title, "Lord of the Gnome Scam".

Give Baron von Skippy [[ Wonko couldn't have done it without em ]] and
Glotmorf [[ for realizing it in its more insidious form ]] the title,
"Knight of the Gnome Scam".

Destroy all DimShips.

Destroy all Gnomes.

Empty the Gnome Fund.

Set the Gremlin Fund to 100 points.

Set all player's scores to 0.

Put all players into Limbo.

Discard all proposals made since the end of nweek 16 with no penalty to
their submitters.

Adjust the gamestate so that the following CFIs are judged REFUSED,
appealed, and immediately judged REFUSED again: 756, 757, 758, 762, 764,
766, 767, 768, 772.

Append to r493 the following text:
"Players may not possess, purchase or launch DimShips."

Create the following rule:
{{
__Dead Time__ {*(uncategorize), 10}

No proposals may be submitted or voted on. This rule supercedes all other
rules. At the end of each nweek, this rule repeals itself.
}}

Change the Gamestate so that no player is recognizing an Emergency.
[[Unneccesary, but let's be safe]]

Restart the Clock.

}}
-- 
Wonko

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 19:56:24 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh Fix
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In my most recent refresh prop, replace "No proposals may be submitted or
voted on. This rule supercedes all other rules. At the end of each nweek,
this rule repeals itself."

with

"No proposals may be submitted or voted on. This rule supercedes all other
rules. At the end of each nweek, each player's activity increases by 1,
after which this rule repeals itself."

-- 
Wonko

Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:12:38 -0400
From: "Glotmorf" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh Prop
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I am willing to withdraw my refresh prop in favor of Wonko's in its current=
 form, including the most recent fixes before this message.

						Glotmorf

From: "Padprinter Engineering Ltd" <[email-masked]>
To: "" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Special prices of printing machines
Date: Wed,8 ���� 2002 03:30:13 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

------=_=_NextPart_AAA_BBBB_01C11A5B.CEFD965
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_=_NextPart_CCC_DDDD_01C11A8E.4ECE36A0"

------=_=_NextPart_CCC_DDDD_01C11A8E.4ECE36A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=gb2312">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>PADPRINTER ENGINEERING LTD</title>
</head>

<body vlink="#FF00FF">

  <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">   
  <div align="center">   
    <table border="1" cellPadding="0" cellSpacing="0" style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; WIDTH: 455.4pt; mso-border-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" width="607">   
      <tbody>   
        <tr>   
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt" vAlign="top" width="115" bgcolor="#FFFF00">   
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black">MODELS<o:p>   
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192" bgcolor="#FFFF00">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black">DESCRIPTION<o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168" bgcolor="#FFFF00">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black">UNIT      
            PRICE USD FOB SHENZHEN<o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132" bgcolor="#FFFF00">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black">MAX      
            PLATE SIZE<o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
        </tr>     
        <tr>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/musy150.htm">MUSY150</a></span></p>   
          </td>   
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">   
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">DESKTOP    
            MANUAL PAD PRINTER</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>   
            </o:p>   
            </span></p>   
          </td>   
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">   
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">500.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>   
            </o:p>   
            </span></p>   
          </td>   
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">   
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">4&quot; 
            * 4&quot;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>   
            </o:p>   
            </span></p>   
          </td>   
        </tr>   
        <tr>   
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">   
            <p align="center"><span style="color: #cc99ff; font-family: Century Gothic" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MP100.htm">MP100</a></span>  
          </td>  
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">  
            <p align="center"><span style="color: #cc99ff; font-family: Century Gothic" lang="EN-US">MOTOR   
            PAD PRINTER</span>  
          </td>  
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">  
            <p align="center"><span style="color: #cc99ff; font-family: Century Gothic" lang="EN-US">880.00</span>  
          </td>  
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">  
  <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">  
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">4&quot; 
            * 3&quot;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p>  
            </span></p>  
</font>  
  
          </td>  
        </tr>  
        <tr>  
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">  
            <p align="center"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYT301.htm">MUYT301</a> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">DESKTOP  
            1-COLOR PAD PRINTER</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1080.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">3&quot; 
            * 4&quot;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
        </tr> 
        <tr> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115"> 
            <p align="center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYS401.htm">MUYS301</a></span> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1-COLOR  
            PAD PRINTER WITH STAND</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1180.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132"> 
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">3&quot; 
            * 4&quot;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p> 
            </o:p> 
            </span></p> 
          </td> 
        </tr> 
        <tr>    
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">    
  <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">    
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYS401.htm">MUYS401</a></span><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYS401.htm"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"></o:p>    
            </span></a></p>    
</font>    
    
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US">ALUMINUM</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"></o:p>    
            </span></p>    
          </td>    
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">    
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1-COLOR     
            PAD PRINTER WITH STAND</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>    
            </o:p>    
            </span></p>    
          </td>    
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">    
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">1428.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>    
            </o:p>    
            </span></p>    
          </td>    
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">    
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">4&quot; 
            * 4&quot;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>    
            </o:p>    
            </span></p>    
            <p align="center" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff">4&quot; 
            * 6&quot;<o:p>    
            </o:p>         
            </span></p>         
          </td>         
        </tr>         
       
</font>        
        
        <tr>       
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">       
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/mu_series.htm">MUYT602-1     
            ALUMINUM</a></span><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/mu_series.htm"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"></o:p>      
            </span></a></p>      
          </td>      
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">      
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">DESKTOP       
            2-COLOR PAD PRINTER</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>      
            </o:p>      
            </span></p>      
          </td>      
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">      
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">2380.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>      
            </o:p>      
            </span></p>      
          </td>      
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">      
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">4&quot; 
            * 6&quot;-2</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
        </tr>     
        <tr>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYS602-1.htm">MUYS602-1</a></span>      
</font>      
      
            <a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/MUYS602-1.htm"> ALUMINUM<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"></o:p>     
            </span>      
</font>      
      
            </a></p>     
          </td>     
          <font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">2-COLOR      
            PAD PRINTER WITH STAND</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">2500.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">4&quot; 
            * 6&quot;-2</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>     
            </o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
        </tr>     
        <tr>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 86.4pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="115">     
            <p align="center" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span style="color: #cc99ff" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/mu_series.htm">MUH-190</a></span><a href="http://www.printy.net/MU/mu_series.htm"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"></o:p>     
            </span></a></p>     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center">&nbsp;<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p></o:p>     
            </span></p>     
          </td>     
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 144pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="192">     
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">SEMI-AUTO          
            HOT STAMPING MACHINE</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>         
            </o:p>         
            </span></p>         
          </td>         
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 126pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="168">         
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'">825.00</span><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff"><o:p>         
            </o:p>         
            </span></p>         
          </td>         
          <td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; WIDTH: 99pt; mso-border-left-alt: solid windowtext .5pt; mso-border-top-alt: solid windowtext .5pt" vAlign="top" width="132">         
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff">150 
            * 200mm          
            300KGF<o:p>         
            </o:p>         
            </span></p>         
            <p align="center" class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: #cc99ff">800PCS/HR<o:p>         
            </o:p>         
            </span></p>         
          </td>         
        </tr>         
      </tbody>       
    </table>       
  </div>       
</font>       
       
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px">��</p>  
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><b>Contact       
        Info:</b></p>      
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><b><font face="Comic Sans MS">PADPRINTER     
        ENGINEERING CO LTD</font></b></p>     
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><b>ADD:4-401,       
        Lane 5, JinHua West,Ailian A Zone, Longgang,</b></p>     
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><b>Shenzhen       
        City, Guangdong Province, P.R.China&nbsp; Post Code: 518116</b>      
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><b>Phone/Fax:       
        0086-(0)755-8993172</b>&nbsp;&nbsp; <b>Mobile: +86-013168031959</b></p>     
        <p align="center" style="LINE-HEIGHT: 100%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 0px"><a href="Http://padprint.51.net"><b>www.printy.net</b></a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;    
        <b><a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></b>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;    
        <b><a href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a></b></p>    
  ��   

   
   
<%=[email-masked]%></body></html>      

------=_=_NextPart_CCC_DDDD_01C11A8E.4ECE36A0--
------=_=_NextPart_AAA_BBBB_01C11A5B.CEFD965--

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:02:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Pause
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Pause finally initializes, after the "48-hour" unanimous consent
decree "passes".

Today is Day 0 of The Pause. It'll be Day 1 in about an hour.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis, MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/     http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/        http://whatIsay.com/

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:25:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Friday evening)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The following players have submitted Refresh Proposals:

bd
Glotmorf
Rob
Wild Card
Wonko (you only get one, so pick which of the two you want to be the
"official" one)
me! (newly revised, coming in my next message)

We've still got a few days to hash 'em out, fortunately.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis, MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/     http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/        http://whatIsay.com/

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 23:26:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: my REAL refresh prop
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Cancel all pending game actions.

Add to Rule 128, at the bottom of the numbered list, the following:

{{
5. Irrelevant: The question has been rendered moot by other events.
}}

Adjust the gamestate so that all open CFIs are judged IRRELEVANT,
immediately appealed, and subsequently judged IRRELEVANT on appeal.

Remove item number 5 from the numbered list in Rule 128, and give that
rule revision number 7.

[[ Just to get all that out of the way. Basically, this way I don't have
to change the rules at all, but it clears out all those ugly pending CFIs. ]]

Adjust the gamestate so that no player is recognizing an Emergency.
[[ Otherwise we go through this again instantly. Not fun. ]]

Discard all proposals that would have been on the nweek 17 ballot, with no
penalty to their authors.

Replace "5 points" with "1 point" in Rule 441, Section A.7, incrementing
the revision number of that Rule. [[ i.e. make it 441/3 ]]

Replace the second "bullet point" item [[ the +1 respect clause ]] of Rule
22 with the following, incrementing the revision number of that Rule:
{{
* The Player awarded the Win is given a Trophy.
}}

Create the following new rule:
{{
__Trophies__

There exist game objects called Trophies. Trophies may only be created,
transferred, or destroyed in ways explicitly permitted by the Rules.

Trophies are awarded for actions of exceptional merit or otherwise worthy
of superlative recognition. The owner of a Trophy gains one point of
Respect as long as e owns that Trophy.

Trophies may NOT be created by Proposals, or by the direct or indirect
effects of Proposals.

}}

[[ Basically, the only way to get one is to Win. And this creates
something that will outlast another Win, and provides a handy "win
counter" to boot. What a deal. ]]

Destroy all DimShips.

Remove rachel from the Roster. [[ If she's still out there, and objects to
this, I'll remove this line. If not, well, it's like Garbage Collection. ]]

Place Naath on voluntary Leave. [[ Because e asked for this ]]

Set all dimensions for all players to zero.

Give Wonko a Trophy.

Remove the "Fire" attribute from all squares on the Grid. [[ if it's still
there... ]]

Destroy all Gnomes, including those in Players' Gnome Bags.

Place 1d6 random Gremlins on the Grid, in random locations. Place all
other Gremlins in Hiding.

Make the balance of the Gnome Account 50 points. [[ otherwise I have to
figure out what it'd actually be and that'd be one helluva pain ]]

Reset the Clock to 18 nweeks, 1 nday, and turn the Clock On.

[[ This is merely resetting the clock "by hand" and not actually rolling
time forward. Since voting and vote-counting never happened for nweek 17,
there won't be any penalties involved. This also circumvents a lot of
other ugly end-of-nweek things, like paying the Ministers, Rocky, and so
on.  Things that occur at the BEGINNING of an nweek will happen normally. ]]

Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:04:46 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Refresh fix(again)
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In my most recent Refresh Prop, append after the second sentence the
following text:

"Add 'Lord of the Gnome Scam' and 'Knight of the Gnome Scam' to the LON."

Otherwise, I'm in for a kick if it passes.

-- 
Wonko
wants to save eir ass

Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 21:27:53 -0400
Subject: spoon-business: Yet another Refresh Fix
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

To the end of my most recent refresh prop, I append the following: "Update
the weather."

With all those Gnomes dying, who knows where it is now?

-- 
Wonko

From: bd <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: My refresh prop
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 16:01:30 -0400
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I rescind my refresh prop. [[ Everyone else has better-thought-out ones..=
=2E ]]