Subject: Re: spoon-business: New Proposal: Neener
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:10:34 +0000 (GMT)

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> Proposal: Neener
> Glotmorf wins B Nomic.

If you can somehow get a majority vote, why the heck not?
Recognized as 202/0.

Oh yeah, Happy new year, everyone.

...dave

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Followup: Abstentions in this nweek
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:10:52 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> I think rule 32 suggests counting happens before application ("the
> proposals that HAVE RECEIVED a majority of affirmative votes", and
> "are THEN processed"), but you might prefer to not replace any
> actual votes with abstentions in this nweek.

And for the next nweek, I make the following proposal:

\begin{proposal}
\title{Don't mess up vote counting!}

Amend rule 32 by replacing "At the end of each voting period," with
"At the end of each voting period, after the votes on all proposals
voted on during that voting period have been counted,"

\end{proposal}

Joerg

Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:50:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Followup: Abstentions in this nweek
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, [iso-8859-1] J=F6rg Rathlev wrote:

> \title{Don't mess up vote counting!}

203/0.

=2E..dave

Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:10:53 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Votes on nweek 3 ballot
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

156/0 NO
157/1 YES
158/1 YES
159/0 YES
160/0 NO
161/0 YES
162/0 NO
163/0 YES
165/1 YES
166/1 YES
167/0 YES
168/0 NO
169/1 YES
170/0 YES
171/1 NO
172/0 YES
174/0 YES
175/0 YES
176/0 YES
177/0 NO
178/0 YES
179/1 YES
180/1 YES
181/0 NO
182/0 NO
183/1 YES
184/0 YES
185/1 NO
186/0 YES
187/0 NO
188/0 YES
189/0 YES
190/0 YES
191/1 YES
192/0 YES
193/0 YES
194/0 YES
195/1 NO
196/0 YES
197/0 YES
198/0 NO

Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 02:26:33 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 3
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I printed out the rules and the proposals for better review.  Did anyone=
 notice the proposals are longer than the rules?

						Glotmorf

My votes:

Proposal 156/0:The Timeline's on this Mobius Strip
Yes

Proposal 157/1:Let's do it right this time
Yes

Proposal 158/1:Five Hundred Twenty-Five Thousand Six Hundred Minutes
Yes

Proposal 159/0:Now you see me, now you don't
Yes

Proposal 160/0:The Garbageman Can
Yes

Proposal 161/0:Boondoggles! Boondoggles! Boondoggles!
Yes

Proposal 162/0:Santa Claus is coming to town!
No.  Maybe I'm just peevish, but I did sign up during this period.

Proposal 163/0:Proxies
Yes

Proposal 165/1:Judicial reform 1
No. I like the existing wording, and the idea of "naming a defendent"=
 worries me slightly.

Proposal 166/1:Judicial reform 2
Yes

Proposal 167/0:Judicial Reform 3 or crime and punishment
Yes

Proposal 168/0:Fix the rules
No.  I think I'd rather see Wonko's Typo rule in place.

Proposal 169/1:Taking a vow of non-silence
Yes

Proposal 170/0:Global Positioning System
Yes

Proposal 171/1:The Paradox Prevention Proposal
Yes

Proposal 172/0:Just to avoid confusion...
Yes

Proposal 174/0:Party like it's 2002
Of course

Proposal 175/0:Ain't ain't a word
No.  Typo rule again.

Proposal 176/0:Paper Trail
Yes

Proposal 177/0:Appeal Clause
Yes

Proposal 178/0:Bandwidth Rationing
Yes

Proposal 179/1:You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
               'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Yes

Proposal 180/1:Define the Game State
No

Proposal 181/0:Apathy Clause
Yes

Proposal 182/0:let's make it Imperial
No.  The absolute-power aspect, and also the self-repealing aspect: What if=
 the player-administrator becomes just an administrator again?

Proposal 183/1:To abstain is an explicit way of *not* voting
Yes

Proposal 184/0:Reform Dimensions
Yes

Proposal 185/1:The Cursed Sushi of Babel
No.  I'd rather see this some time later.

Proposal 186/0:Charmed, I'm sure
Yes

Proposal 187/0:Clean-up Kickback Clause
Yes

Proposal 188/0:Currency
No.  Aren't there enough things to keep track of already?

Proposal 189/0:Proposal Awards
No.

Proposal 190/0:Sharing The Wealth
No.

Proposal 191/1:Victory by Monopoly
No.

Proposal 192/0:Start at the beginning
Yes

Proposal 193/0:I Can't See the Clock
Yes

Proposal 194/0:I Can't See My Watch Either
Yes

Proposal 195/1:The Many
Yes

Proposal 196/0:Elimination of Boilerplate
Yes

Proposal 197/0:Standard Delimiters
No. Leaving off a }} could get terribly ugly.  If we had to have standard=
 delimiters, I think I'd prefer markup tags.

Proposal 198/0:Spur Clause
Yes

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Player Announcement:  Scoff!
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:49:55 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<salutation>
Greetings, everyone!
</salutation>

<assumption>
The assumption is made, for the purposes of this e-mail, that I will be
accepted as an entity capable of passing the Turing Test.
</assumption>
<consent>
I hereby declare my consent to be included as a player of B Nomic
</consent>
<declaration>
I hereby declare myself a player of B Nomic.  My name shall be the
following double quote delimited text "Scoff!"
</declaration>

<pleasantries>
A warm handshake to all present, and slightly-belated best wishes for a
Happy New Year!
</pleasantries>

Scoff!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Come on let's leave our misery
And crawl toward where we want to be
Can't we try?  Can't we try?
  --Yo La Tengo, "Night Falls On Hoboken"

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Voting for nweek 3, by Scoff! 
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:48:36 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

NO> Proposal 156/0:The Timeline's on this Mobius Strip
NO> Proposal 157/1:Let's do it right this time
YES> Proposal 158/1:Five Hundred Twenty-Five Thousand Six Hundred
Minutes
YES> Proposal 159/0:Now you see me, now you don't
YES> Proposal 160/0:The Garbageman Can
YES> Proposal 161/0:Boondoggles! Boondoggles! Boondoggles!
NO> Proposal 162/0:Santa Claus is coming to town!
NO> Proposal 163/0:Proxies
YES> Proposal 165/1:Judicial reform 1
YES> Proposal 166/1:Judicial reform 2
NO> Proposal 167/0:Judicial Reform 3 or crime and punishment
YES> Proposal 168/0:Fix the rules
NO> Proposal 169/1:Taking a vow of non-silence
YES> Proposal 170/0:Global Positioning System
NO> Proposal 171/1:The Paradox Prevention Proposal
YES> Proposal 172/0:Just to avoid confusion...
NO> Proposal 174/0:Party like it's 2002
YES> Proposal 175/0:Ain't ain't a word
YES> Proposal 176/0:Paper Trail
NO> Proposal 177/0:Appeal Clause
NO> Proposal 178/0:Bandwidth Rationing
NO> Proposal 179/1:You can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just
               'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
YES> Proposal 180/1:Define the Game State
YES> Proposal 181/0:Apathy Clause
NO> Proposal 182/0:let's make it Imperial
YES> Proposal 183/1:To abstain is an explicit way of *not* voting
YES> Proposal 184/0:Reform Dimensions
YES> Proposal 185/1:The Cursed Sushi of Babel
YES> Proposal 186/0:Charmed, I'm sure
NO> Proposal 187/0:Clean-up Kickback Clause
NO> Proposal 188/0:Currency
NO> Proposal 189/0:Proposal Awards
NO> Proposal 190/0:Sharing The Wealth
NO> Proposal 191/1:Victory by Monopoly
YES> Proposal 192/0:Start at the beginning
YES> Proposal 193/0:I Can't See the Clock
NO> Proposal 194/0:I Can't See My Watch Either
YES> Proposal 195/1:The Many
YES> Proposal 196/0:Elimination of Boilerplate
YES> Proposal 197/0:Standard Delimiters
NO> Proposal 198/0:Spur Clause

--Scoff!

Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:37:14 -0500
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: spoon-business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: [Fwd: spoon-discuss: Nweek 3 ballot]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Whoops, wrong list.

-------- Original Message --------
156/0 - Yes
157/1 - Yes
158/1 - Yes
159/0 - Yes
160/0 - Yes
161/0 - Yes
162/0 - Yes
163/0 - No
165/1 - Yes
166/1 - Yes
167/0 - Yes
169/1 - Yes
170/0 - Yes
171/1 - No
172/0 - Yes
174/0 - Yes
176/0 - Yes
177/0 - Yes
178/0 - Yes
179/1 - No
180/1 - Yes
181/0 - Yes
182/0 - No
183/1 - Yes
184/0 - Yes
185/1 - No
186/0 - Yes
187/0 - Yes
188/0 - No
189/0 - No
190/0 - No
191/1 - No
192/0 - Yes
193/0 - Yes
194/0 - Yes
195/1 - Yes
196/0 - Yes
197/0 - Yes
198/0 - Yes

Fenrir

Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:44:03 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Great Nbank Robbery
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If proposal 188 ("Currency") passes, I shall immediately rob the bank of=
 all its Nomic Dollars, and hide them where no one but me can find them.

Rationale: This is not a transfer between bank accounts; the Nomic Dollars=
 are being totally removed from the bank.  The rule that 188 presumably=
 creates only specifies restrictions on transferring Nomic Dollars between=
 bank accounts.  Therefore I invoke Rule 18.

Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:51:26 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Call For Judgment
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Does the Administrator qualify as a Public Forum under rule 28, since he is=
 "reasonably accessible to all players"?  After all, anyone can email him.=
 (Note that neither "forum" nor "accessible" is currently defined in the=
 rules.)

Specifically, is an action considered valid if submitted directly to the=
 Administrator, as opposed to submitting it to spoon-business?  Rule 31=
 seems to serve as precedent for conducting business through the=
 Administrator.

						Glotmorf

From: Glenn Overby II <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:02:02 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Fixing my nweek3 votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Please change all my ABSTAIN votes on proposals 188/0, 189/0, 190/0, and 
191/1 to YES votes.  (The proposals aren't perfect, but it may be fun to "perfect" 
them.)   All my other votes remain unchanged.

Octagon

Glenn E. Overby II
Clinton Twp, MI

=====

Icehouse Games Pages (take the IcePoll!)
http://home.earthlink.net/~guardcaptain/IceGames.html

From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Jorg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Votes, nweek 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:09:38 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First, let me explain that I have voted for the strict bandwidth
proposal (3 proposals per player per nweek) only because I almost
didn't have the time to vote this nweek. I don't like to be limited by
such a rule, but when no one has time to discuss the proposals and
decide how to vote, that doesn't make sense either.

> Proposal 156/0:The Timeline's on this Mobius Strip
YES

> Proposal 157/1:Let's do it right this time
YES

> Proposal 158/1:Five Hundred Twenty-Five Thousand Six Hundred Minutes
YES

> Proposal 159/0:Now you see me, now you don't
YES

> Proposal 160/0:The Garbageman Can
NO

> Proposal 161/0:Boondoggles! Boondoggles! Boondoggles!
YES

> Proposal 162/0:Santa Claus is coming to town!
YES

> Proposal 163/0:Proxies
I cast no vote on this issue.

> Proposal 165/1:Judicial reform 1
NO
("specify a defendant"? So, I question player A's action and can name
player B as the defendant? I.e., I can use the defendant to exclude
someone from being judge without any reason.)

> Proposal 166/1:Judicial reform 2
YES

> Proposal 167/0:Judicial Reform 3 or crime and punishment
NO

> Proposal 168/0:Fix the rules
YES

> Proposal 169/1:Taking a vow of non-silence
NO

> Proposal 170/0:Global Positioning System
NO

> Proposal 171/1:The Paradox Prevention Proposal
NO

> Proposal 172/0:Just to avoid confusion...
YES

> Proposal 174/0:Party like it's 2002
YES

> Proposal 175/0:Ain't ain't a word
YES

> Proposal 176/0:Paper Trail
YES

> Proposal 177/0:Appeal Clause
NO
(Nice idea, but no details on how voting takes place.)

> Proposal 178/0:Bandwidth Rationing
YES

> Proposal 179/1:You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
>                'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
YES

> Proposal 180/1:Define the Game State
NO

> Proposal 181/0:Apathy Clause
YES

> Proposal 182/0:let's make it Imperial
NO

> Proposal 183/1:To abstain is an explicit way of *not* voting
YES

> Proposal 184/0:Reform Dimensions
NO
(Please, don't put everything into a single rule. This just makes it
harder to have more than one proposal at a time to modify something in
that rule.)

> Proposal 185/1:The Cursed Sushi of Babel
I don't vote on this issue.

> Proposal 186/0:Charmed, I'm sure
NO
(What's wrong about non-procedural algorithms? Never programmed in
Prolog yet? ;-))

> Proposal 187/0:Clean-up Kickback Clause
NO

> Proposal 188/0:Currency
NO

> Proposal 189/0:Proposal Awards
NO

> Proposal 190/0:Sharing The Wealth
NO

> Proposal 191/1:Victory by Monopoly
NO

> Proposal 192/0:Start at the beginning
NO
(Append that to rule 153. See also my comment on P184/0 above.)

> Proposal 193/0:I Can't See the Clock
YES

> Proposal 194/0:I Can't See My Watch Either
YES

> Proposal 195/1:The Many
NO

> Proposal 196/0:Elimination of Boilerplate
NO

> Proposal 197/0:Standard Delimiters
NO
(I'd rather introduce something that can be (machine-)read without
ambiguity as to whether a proposal or a rule is delimited.)

> Proposal 198/0:Spur Clause
NO

Joerg

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 07:52:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: nweek 3 results
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

(The usual commentary is at the end.)

BEGIN NWEEK 3 NOMIC VOTING LOG.

156/0 passed (6-4).
Created 204/0.
Wonko scores 7 points.

157/1 passed (6-4).
Created 15/1.
Wonko scores 15 points.

158/1 passed (8-2).
Created 3/1.
Created 15/2.
Created 3/2.
(Ah, the joys of self-referential rules. :)
Wonko scores 11 points.

159/0 passed (8-2).
Created 205/0.
Wonko scores 9 points.

160/0 passed (6-4).
Created 206/0.
Wonko scores 7 points.

161/0 passed (8-2).
Created 207/0.
Wonko scores 12 points.

162/0 failed (4-6).
Wonko loses 4 points.

163/0 passed (5-4).
Created 208/0.
Glotmorf scores 12 points.

165/1 passed (7-3).
Created 126/1.
Antonio scores 13 points.

166/1 passed (9-1).
Created 128/1.
Antonio scores 11 points.

167/0 passed (6-4).
Created 127/1.
Created 209/0.
Antonio scores 7 points.

168/0 passed (6-3).
Created 150/1.
Wonko scores 6 points.

169/1 passed (7-3).
Created 168/2.
Wonko scores 8 points.

170/0 passed (8-2).
Created 210/0.
Wonko scores 9 points.

171/1 failed (2-8).
Wonko loses 2 points.

172/0 passed (9-1).
Created 33/1.
Wonko scores 14 points.

174/0 passed (9-1).
All players are awarded 10 points.
Wonko scores 18 points.

175/0 passed (7-2).
Created 32/4.
Wonko scores 9 points.

176/0 passed (10-0).
Created 211/0.
Glotmorf scores 12 points.

177/0 failed (5-5).
Glotmorf loses 1 points.

178/0 passed (7-3).
Created 212/0.
Glotmorf scores 11 points.

179/1 passed (7-3).
Created 32/5.
Wonko scores 8 points.

180/1 failed (5-5).
Rob loses 4 points.

181/0 passed (8-2).
Created 32/6.
Glotmorf scores 7 points.

182/0 failed (0-10).
Antonio loses 5 points.

183/1 passed (10-0).
Created 31/3.
Joerg scores 9 points.

184/0 passed (8-2).
Created 21/3.
Created 154/1.
Antonio scores 14 points.

185/1 passed (6-3).
Created 213/0.
Created 'The Cursed Sushi of Babel' and gave it to Rob. (Congrats.)
Rob scores 10 points.

186/0 passed (7-3).
Created 154/2.
Wonko scores 12 points.

187/0 failed (4-6).
Glotmorf loses 5 points.

188/0 failed (4-6).
gritter loses 4 points.

189/0 failed (4-6).
gritter loses 3 points.

190/0 failed (4-6).
gritter loses 1 points.

191/0 failed (4-7).
gritter loses 2 points.

192/0 passed (8-2).
Created 154/3.
Wonko scores 11 points.

193/0 passed (9-1).
Created 214/0.
Fenrir scores 8 points.

194/0 passed (7-3).
Created 215/0.
Fenrir scores 7 points.

195/1 failed (5-5).
Wonko loses 6 points.

196/0 passed (7-3).
Created 216/0.
Rob scores 15 points.

197/0 passed (8-2).
Created 217/0.
Rob scores 9 points.

198/0 failed (3-7).
Glotmorf loses 1 points.

END VOTING LOG.

Total dimension changes:
Antonio +40 score, +4 charm, +1 activity
Fenrir  +15, +2, +1
Glotmorf +35, +1, +1
Gritter -10, -4, +1
Iain 0, 0, +1
Joerg +9, +1, +1
Chess 0, 0, -1
Octagon 0, 0, +1
Rob +30, +2, +1
Turgul 0, 0, -1
UIN 0, 0, -1
Wonko +144, +12, +1
Scoff 0, 0, +1

(Scoff: You're only listed out-of-order here because you weren't on the
roster when voting started, and I didn't feel like re-printing a whole
bunch of papers. Don't take it personally. :)

The above totals don't include the 10 points everyone was awarded as a
result of the New Years proposal.

Since proposals are handled in order, gritter did briefly have ten points,
before e lost 'em all at the cruel hands of the voters (for failing all
eir currency-related proposals).

All votes were sent to a public forum of some sort, so they're archived
and thus (IMO) meet the disclosure requirements of Rule 31. If anyone
objects to this, I'll gladly scan all my vote count sheets (it's like
seven pages) and you can peruse to your heart's content.

After all rules were processed, the initial value of "Activity" was
undefined, so I'm assuming it to be zero. Therefore, it only reflects
"Activity" for this nweek (and can only be +/- 1).

Implementation of the stuff required by the new Rule 3 (the Clock and
Watch) shall take place as soon as is feasible. (I'd been working on
something similar to those things required by that rule for a while, but
haven't yet been able to properly debug 'em all.) If anyone is unhappy
with the fact that I'm going to sleep before doing so, feel free to
complain, and I'll feel free to ignore you. ;)

The stuff required by "Paper Trail" is done already. Enjoy.

All updated/final attributes are listed on the Roster, but here's a handy
cut'n'paste:

Antonio
Activity 1 Charm 5 Distance 68.19 Score 68 Speed 50.16

Fenrir
Activity 1 Charm 2 Distance 15.17 Score 25 Speed 15.17

Glotmorf
Activity 1 Charm 1 Distance 45.02 Score 45 Speed 45.02

gritter
Activity 1 Charm -4 Distance 4.12 Score 0 Speed 4.12

Iain
Activity 1 Charm 1 Distance 24.04 Score 24 Speed 10

Joerg
Activity 1 Charm 6 Distance 77.24 Score 77 Speed 19.02

M'cachessilnath
Activity -1 Charm -2 Distance 10.25 Score 10 Speed 8.25

Octagon
Activity 1 Charm -1 Distance 10.1 Score 10 Speed 9.1

Rob
Activity 1 Charm 5 Distance 90.14 Score 90 Speed 40.05
Attributes: purple, Concertmaster

Scoff!
Activity 1 Charm 0 Distance 10.1 Score 10 Speed 10.1

Turgul
Activity -1 Charm -1 Distance 10.1 Score 10 Speed 9.1

uniquely identifying names
Activity -1 Charm 5 Distance 90.14 Score 90 Speed 9.98

Wonko
Activity 1 Charm 12 Distance 161.45 Score 161 Speed 154.38

This week's object lesson: if shotgun proposals are good, fragmentation
grenades are even better! Way to go, Wonko.

(Remember the "Bandwidth Rationing" proposal is now in effect. No more
than three proposals for the next ballot. Wonko, sit back, relax, you've
already hit your limit.)

This nweek is January 4 through January 13 (voting is the 11th-13th).

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:45:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Call For Judgment
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> Does the Administrator qualify as a Public Forum under rule 28, since
> he is "reasonably accessible to all players"?  After all, anyone can
> email him. (Note that neither "forum" nor "accessible" is currently
> defined in the rules.)
>
> Specifically, is an action considered valid if submitted directly to
> the Administrator, as opposed to submitting it to spoon-business?
> Rule 31 seems to serve as precedent for conducting business through
> the Administrator.

This is CFJ 218, assigned to Rob.

...dave

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:47:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The clock...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

There's a clock displayed on the front page of the B Nomic site, but it'll
be a few days before I know whether it functions properly.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: 4 Jan 2002 15:21:07 -0000
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Now You See Me, Now you don't
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I would like to propose the following rule.  (I think this format conforms to 217)

__Now You See Me, Now You Don't__

{{Apend the following paragraph to the end of rule 205.
{{
Any player who is not already On Leave and who's Activity has decreased for two consecutive nweeks shall be placed onto Forced Leave.  In all other respects being on Forced Leave is identical to being On Leave.
}}
[[This way players that have disappeared from the game without telling anyone will be placed onto Leave and won't factor into the game until they choose to return.  Or until rule 206 kicks in and gets rid of them all together.]]
}}

Fenrir

_______________________________________________________

Date: 4 Jan 2002 15:21:14 -0000
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Now You See Me, Now you don't
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I would like to propose the following rule.  (I think this format conforms to 217)

__Now You See Me, Now You Don't__

{{Apend the following paragraph to the end of rule 205.
{{
Any player who is not already On Leave and who's Activity has decreased for two consecutive nweeks shall be placed onto Forced Leave.  In all other respects being on Forced Leave is identical to being On Leave.
}}
[[This way players that have disappeared from the game without telling anyone will be placed onto Leave and won't factor into the game until they choose to return.  Or until rule 206 kicks in and gets rid of them all together.]]
}}

Fenrir

_______________________________________________________

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: The clock...
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:34:48 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

ANALYSIS:
Due to an error in forethought on the part of the clock/watch proposal,
the clock now (validly, wrt the proposal) reads nweek 3, even though
this is supposed to be nweek 4.

Note the following, from Proposal 158/1:
"At the time that this amendment takes effect, the number of days on the
Clock shall be set to 0, the number of nweeks shall be set to 3, and the
word 'day' in all rules shall be changed to 'nday'. The last paragraph
of this rule will then delete itself."

Thus we find ourselves in nweek 3 again, because the amendment took
effect (as all amendments must under current rules) AFTER the end of
nweek 3, and therefore AFTER the point at which the clock would have
incremented.  Even if it had taken effect before 00:00:00 UTC (which it
could not, since voting was still open), it would have incremented to
nweek 3, nday 1, NOT nweek 4, nday 0.

Under Rule 17/0, which says "Events may occur only in the present, and
may not alter the past." and  32/1, which notes that "Proposals may not
take effect retroactively." this has the makings of a time paradox, and
a violation of the rules.  Rule 204/0 may also apply, but as it has a
higher rule number, rule 158 will take precedence over it.

Still, I suggest that repeating nweek 3 would effectively result in
events altering the past, and proposals taking effect retroactively, and
call for judgement on the following statements.

Since the game state is currently undefined in Rule 152, and further
under the Permissibility of the Unprohibited, the Administrator should
have power to act as prescribed in the first statement since the clock
is not necessarily part of the game state.  The only alternative I see
is to repeal Proposal 158/1 in its entirety, but perhaps the judge will
get creative.

I name the author of Proposal 158/1, Wonko, as defendant.

STATEMENT 1:
The clock should be updated by the Administrator to read the appropriate
nweek and nday at time of judgement on this statement, as if the clock
had read nweek 4, nday 0 at 00:00:00 UTC at the end of nweek 3. =20

STATEMENT 2:
If Statement 1 is ruled False or Undecided, then Proposal 158 should be
repealed in toto.

--Scoff!

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Call For Judgment
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:40:46 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I hope Rob issues a judgement within the first 4 days, so we can
experience the judicial wisdom dispensed by the Cursed Sushi of Babel.
;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David E. Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:45 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: spoon-business: Call For Judgment
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:
>=20
> > Does the Administrator qualify as a Public Forum under rule=20
> 28, since
> > he is "reasonably accessible to all players"?  After all, anyone can
> > email him. (Note that neither "forum" nor "accessible" is currently
> > defined in the rules.)
> >
> > Specifically, is an action considered valid if submitted directly to
> > the Administrator, as opposed to submitting it to spoon-business?
> > Rule 31 seems to serve as precedent for conducting business through
> > the Administrator.
>=20
> This is CFJ 218, assigned to Rob.
>=20
> ...dave
>=20
>=20

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:56:18 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: New Rule Proposal: Justice Never Sleeps
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _Justice Never Sleeps_

Create a new rule:

{{ _Justice Never Sleeps_

Actions pertaining to Calls for Judgment (including, but not limited to,=
 submitting a CFJ, assigning a judge to a CFJ, passing judgment on a CFJ,=
 and maintaining the Misbehaving Judges List) may occur whether the Clock=
 is On or Off.

If a CFJ is submitted during an nweek but before the nweek's voting period,=
 the CFJ must be judged on before the voting period begins.  If the CFJ has=
 not been judged before the start of the voting period, and the Clock is=
 On, the Clock is turned Off.  Once the CFJ is judged, if there are no=
 other CFJs likewise awaiting judgment, the Clock is turned On.

If a CFJ is submitted during the voting period of an nweek, the CFJ must be=
 judged on before the resolution of the voted-on proposals and the=
 beginning of the next nweek.  If the CFJ has not been judged before then,=
 and the Clock is On, the Clock is turned Off.  Once the CFJ is judged, if=
 there are no other CFJs likewise awaiting judgment, the Clock is turned=
 On.
}}

Rationale:

A CFJ, by its very nature, arises when there is a Problem.  If there is a=
 Problem, it should be resolved ASAP, rather than after other actions make=
 the easy solutions moot, a paradox arises, or it becomes necessary to=
 retrofit, rescind and other past-altering actions.
}}

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:38:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: CFJ: The clock...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 219, assigned to Joerg.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Jonathan Van Matre wrote:

> ANALYSIS:
> Due to an error in forethought on the part of the clock/watch proposal,
> the clock now (validly, wrt the proposal) reads nweek 3, even though
> this is supposed to be nweek 4.
>
> Note the following, from Proposal 158/1:
> "At the time that this amendment takes effect, the number of days on the
> Clock shall be set to 0, the number of nweeks shall be set to 3, and the
> word 'day' in all rules shall be changed to 'nday'. The last paragraph
> of this rule will then delete itself."
>
> Thus we find ourselves in nweek 3 again, because the amendment took
> effect (as all amendments must under current rules) AFTER the end of
> nweek 3, and therefore AFTER the point at which the clock would have
> incremented.  Even if it had taken effect before 00:00:00 UTC (which it
> could not, since voting was still open), it would have incremented to
> nweek 3, nday 1, NOT nweek 4, nday 0.
>
> Under Rule 17/0, which says "Events may occur only in the present, and
> may not alter the past." and  32/1, which notes that "Proposals may not
> take effect retroactively." this has the makings of a time paradox, and
> a violation of the rules.  Rule 204/0 may also apply, but as it has a
> higher rule number, rule 158 will take precedence over it.
>
> Still, I suggest that repeating nweek 3 would effectively result in
> events altering the past, and proposals taking effect retroactively, and
> call for judgement on the following statements.
>
> Since the game state is currently undefined in Rule 152, and further
> under the Permissibility of the Unprohibited, the Administrator should
> have power to act as prescribed in the first statement since the clock
> is not necessarily part of the game state.  The only alternative I see
> is to repeal Proposal 158/1 in its entirety, but perhaps the judge will
> get creative.
>
> I name the author of Proposal 158/1, Wonko, as defendant.
>
> STATEMENT 1:
> The clock should be updated by the Administrator to read the appropriate
> nweek and nday at time of judgement on this statement, as if the clock
> had read nweek 4, nday 0 at 00:00:00 UTC at the end of nweek 3.
>
> STATEMENT 2:
> If Statement 1 is ruled False or Undecided, then Proposal 158 should be
> repealed in toto.
>
> --Scoff!

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:43:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Proposal: Now You See Me, Now you don't
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 4 Jan 2002, Josh Utterback wrote:

> I would like to propose the following rule.  (I think this format
> conforms to 217)

hey, beats me. 217 kinda messed with my head too. :-)

> __Now You See Me, Now You Don't__

Anyway, recognized as 220/0.

...dave

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:46:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: New Rule Proposal: Justice Never Sleeps
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> {{ _Justice Never Sleeps_

221/0.

(And, if it passes, my undying emnity for forcing me to actually figure
out how to implement all that Clock stuff. :)

...dave

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Limitation of Veto Power and Clarification of Administrative Powers
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:42:32 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

_Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of Administrative Powers_

(aka the LOVECAP act)  ;-)

Rationale: To provide checks on the administrative veto power and its
adverse effects on players, whilst also empowering the administrator to
reject technically unfeasible proposals.

Modify Rule 32/6 by adding the following:
 =20
{{If a proposal would have passed, but is deemed failed *only* due to
the Administrator's veto, then:

a) The author of the proposal shall not gain or lose Charm. =20

b) The author of the vetoed proposal also shall not lose points from eir
Score, but gain nd3 points, where n is the number of yes votes received
by the vetoed proposal minus the number of no votes received by the
proposal.  If n is greater than 5, the author shall instead receive 5d3
points.

Any player wishing to override veto of a proposal may do so if the
proposal is resubmitted in a subsequent nweek and at least 3/4 of the
votes counted for it are affirmative.  [[Pretty obvious corollary to the
current text of Rule 32, but I wanted to make it explicitly permitted.]]
}}

Add to the end of rule 126/1:=20

{{If at any time a player deems an Administrative action invalid,
believes an Administrative action has altered the ruleset or gamestate
in a manner inconsistent with the rules, or suspects the Administrator
of unfairness, nepotism, or cheating in a given action, eir remedy is to
use the Call For Judgement process.

In the event of a CFJ naming the Administrator as defendant, the duty of
randomly selecting a judge shall fall to the player with the highest
Score.  That player will also be ineligible to judge the CFJ.}}  =20

Add a rule entitled=20
_Powers of Executive Tidiness_

{{
The Administrator is explicitly empowered to do the following:

1) Correct the spelling or grammar of any rule, proposal, or CFJ,
providing such correction does not alter the meaning of that rule,
proposal, or CFJ.
2) Correct the spelling, grammar, or content of any game documents or
web pages, provided such correction does not alter the game state.
3) Make corrections to the game state when system errors, system
downtime, program errors, or other unanticipated system events have
altered the game state in a manner not explicitly permitted by the
rules.
4) Adjust the Clock and/or Watch as necessary to correct for errors
introduced by system errors, system downtime, program errors, or other
unanticipated events.

Should a player object to the Administrator's actions in executing these
powers, eir remedy is the Call For Judgement process.
}}

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: REVISED Proposal: Limitation of Veto Power and Clarification of Administrative Powers
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:54:19 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yarrgh.  I posted the wrong saved draft of this message.  Here's the
adjusted version, which dovetails better with the Typo proposal on the
issue of public notification, and leaves the handling of proposal Typos
in the jurisdiction of that proposal:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Van Matre=20
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 3:43 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Limitation of Veto Power and
> Clarification of Administrative Powers
>=20
>=20
> _Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of Administrative Powers_
>=20
> (aka the LOVECAP act)  ;-)
>=20
> Rationale: To provide checks on the administrative veto power and its
> adverse effects on players, whilst also empowering the=20
> administrator to
> reject technically unfeasible proposals.
>=20
> Modify Rule 32/6 by adding the following:
>  =20
> {{If a proposal would have passed, but is deemed failed *only* due to
> the Administrator's veto, then:
>=20
> a) The author of the proposal shall not gain or lose Charm. =20
>=20
> b) The author of the vetoed proposal also shall not lose=20
> points from eir
> Score, but gain nd3 points, where n is the number of yes=20
> votes received
> by the vetoed proposal minus the number of no votes received by the
> proposal.  If n is greater than 5, the author shall instead=20
> receive 5d3
> points.
>=20
> Any player wishing to override veto of a proposal may do so if the
> proposal is resubmitted in a subsequent nweek and at least 3/4 of the
> votes counted for it are affirmative.  [[Pretty obvious=20
> corollary to the
> current text of Rule 32, but I wanted to make it explicitly=20
> permitted.]]
> }}
>=20
> Add to the end of rule 126/1:=20
>=20
> {{If at any time a player deems an Administrative action invalid,
> believes an Administrative action has altered the ruleset or gamestate
> in a manner inconsistent with the rules, or suspects the Administrator
> of unfairness, nepotism, or cheating in a given action, eir=20
> remedy is to
> use the Call For Judgement process.
>=20
> In the event of a CFJ naming the Administrator as defendant,=20
> the duty of
> randomly selecting a judge shall fall to the player with the highest
> Score.  That player will also be ineligible to judge the CFJ.}}  =20
>=20
> Add a rule entitled=20
> _Powers of Executive Tidiness_
>=20
> {{
> The Administrator is explicitly empowered to do the following:
>=20
> 1) Correct the spelling, grammar, or formatting of any rule or CFJ,
> providing such correction does not alter the meaning of that rule or
CFJ,
> and Administrator posts notice of the correction(s) made to a public
forum
> within 1 nday following the correction.
> 2) Correct the spelling, grammar, formatting or content of any game
documents or
> web pages, provided such correction does not alter the game state.
> 3) Make corrections to the game state when system errors, system
> downtime, program errors, or other unanticipated system events have
> altered the game state in a manner not explicitly permitted by the
> rules.  The Administrator must post notice of the correction(s)=20
> made to a public forum within 1 nday following the correction.
> 4) Adjust the Clock and/or Watch as necessary to correct for errors
> introduced by system errors, system downtime, program errors, or other
> unanticipated events.  The Administrator must post notice of the
correction(s)=20
> made to a public forum within 1 nday following the correction.
>=20
> Should a player object to the Administrator's actions in=20
> executing these
> powers, eir remedy is the Call For Judgement process.
> }}

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:42:38 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Call For Judgment
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the Thu, the Jan on the 03rd, 03:51:26AM 2002 years -0500, Donald
Whytock wrote,
> Does the Administrator qualify as a Public Forum under rule 28, since he is "reasonably accessible to all players"?  After all, anyone can email him. (Note that neither "forum" nor "accessible" is currently defined in the rules.)
> 
> Specifically, is an action considered valid if submitted directly to the Administrator, as opposed to submitting it to spoon-business?  Rule 31 seems to serve as precedent for conducting business through the Administrator.
> 
> 						Glotmorf

That the bill is incorrect, I administer justice.

Objection explanation:

Him as being an aerial forum the executive official assuredly the
declaration summer solstice anh ass the flag thing in because, him is
not aerial forum.

But, consequently, the executive official as personal forum is spared in
this rule and that it does not know, it is vivid.

-- 
Plunder Speer

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 02:34:28 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Modify Proposal: Justice Never Sleeps
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Amend proposal 221, "Justice Never Sleeps", to add the following text to=
 the end of the rule it creates:

Rule 213, "The Cursed Sushi of Babel", shall not apply to the text of a=
 judgment and accompanying analysis for a CFJ. This rule takes precedence=
 over rule 213.

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:11:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Modify Proposal: Justice Never Sleeps
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> Amend proposal 221, "Justice Never Sleeps", to add the following text
> to the end of the rule it creates:

Recognized as 221/1. And thanks for depriving us of a good source of
entertainment. "I administer justice" indeed...

...dave

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:52:12 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: I will hold and will try the fact that i manufacture.
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__ Sushi __.

I present the paragraph which comes after.

Inside 213th rule, word " official forum " remove. Inside that place,
rule 28's 31st with 32nd word insert.

-- 
Plunder.

From: Antonio <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ about the sushi
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 04:29:48 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I present the following statement for judgement:
The lexical construct "official forum" refers to all forums.
--=20
Antonio

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 04:19:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: I will hold and will try the fact that i
 manufacture.
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 5 Jan 2002, Rob Speer wrote:

> __ Sushi __.

As 223/0 where you it holds it is type recognized.

...dave

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ 219 (The Clock) Judgement
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:19:30 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The CFJ to be judged was:

> STATEMENT 1:
> The clock should be updated by the Administrator to read the =
appropriate
> nweek and nday at time of judgement on this statement, as if the clock
> had read nweek 4, nday 0 at 00:00:00 UTC at the end of nweek 3.
>
> STATEMENT 2:
> If Statement 1 is ruled False or Undecided, then Proposal 158 should =
be
> repealed in toto.

{{

I judge the statement to be false, because:

- The Clock is not an entity used to display time, it is an entity
  that defines time for the purpose of this game,

- The Clock is zero-based, therefore the nweek that is displayed as
  "nweek 3" by The Clock is the fourth nweek of this game, and

- counting of nweeks was not zero-based before the passage of proposal
  158/1, resulting in "nweek 2" being called "nweek 3" at that time.

Analysis:

This analysis shall not have the force of law.

I should note that I am not entirely sure if rule 126/1 permits a CFJ
to contain more than a single statement, I have therefore interpreted
the statements of the CFJ as a single statement that reads: "The clock
should be updated by the Administrator to read the appropriate nweek
and nday at time of judgement on this statement, as if the clock had
read nweek 4, nday 0 at 00:00:00 UTC at the end of nweek 3. If this is
false or cannot be decided, then Proposal 158 should be repealed in
toto."

In my judgement, I have considered Fenrir's opinion that "nweek 3" is
just the name that we give to an nweek, and it is possible to give the
same name to two different nweeks. This would imply that The Clock is
not a definition of time, but rather an entity used to display the
time. However, as turning The Clock On or Off influences the game, The
Clock is an entity that defines time. Time is displayed by displaying
the current value of The Clock (see rule 214/0).

The Clock is defined to be zero-based for seconds, minutes and hours
by being based on UTC, which displays the first second/minute/hour as
"00" rather than "01". Furthermore, The Clock is defined by rule 3/2
to be zero-based for ndays ("in which case [the number of ndays] shall
become equal to 0"). It therefore makes sense to assume that The Clock
is zero-based for nweeks as well, which means that "nweek 3" is the
fourth nweek of the game.

Days and Nweeks as they used to be defined by rule 3/0 before the
passage of proposal 158/1 were not defined by that rule to be
zero-based, and game practice before the passage of proposal 158/1
indicates that the first nweek of the game was called "nweek 1" at
that time, not "nweek 0".

Players who prefer a non-zero-based counting of nweeks may wish to
make a proposal to change the counting, however, such players are
advised to be careful in changing The Clock since by doing so, they
will be changing time itself.

}}

Joerg

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Displaying non-zero-based nweeks
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:31:10 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I am one of the players who prefer a non-zero-based counting of
nweeks, even if only for historical reasons.

I make the following proposal:

{{ __Displaying non-zero-based nweeks__

Modify rule 214 to read: {{

The current value of The Clock, with the number of nweeks increased by
one [[because The Clock is zero-based]], shall be displayed in public
view.

}}}}

Joerg

Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:48:46 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Oh, all right...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

...So let's not tie them together after all.

Two actions here:

1. Re-amend proposal 221 to remove the following text:

Rule 213, "The Cursed Sushi of Babel", shall not apply to the text of a=
 judgment and accompanying analysis for a CFJ. This rule takes precedence=
 over rule 213.

2. Create a new proposal:

{{ _Rosetta Clause_

If a rule entitled _Justice Never Sleeps_ exists, append to the end of it=
 the following text:

Rule 213, "The Cursed Sushi of Babel", shall not apply to the text of a=
 judgment and accompanying analysis for a CFJ. This rule takes precedence=
 over rule 213.

}}

						Glotmorf

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Force of law, you say?
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:52:57 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I submit the following Call For Judgement:
<statement>
Rule 1 has the following @@@ delimited text:
@@@
The name of this game shall be 'B Nomic.'

The player who, as of the 1st of January 2002, was known as "uniquely
identifying names", and the player who was selected to judge the first Call
For Judgement submitted by uniquely identifying names in this game, may
alter the rules of this game, and any other aspect of the game they choose,
by mutually agreeing, in a public forum, to such an alteration.

Additionally, either of the players mentioned above may, at any time, by
declaring that they are so doing in a public forum, Zap any proposal, or any
Call For Judgement. Zapping a proposal replaces its text with the string
"FNORD". Zapping a Call For Judgement replaces its statement with the string
"FNORD".

This rule may only be amended or repealed as described in this rule. This
rule takes precedence over all other rules, including those which claim to
take precedence over it. This rule will be repealed on the 21st of January
2002.
@@@
</statement>
<analysis>
Join me, and together we will rule the galaxy as player and... other player.
It is your *destiny*.
</analysis>

uin.

DISCLAIMER: 
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Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:08:43 -0600
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

_The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style_

{{
All players have an attribute known as Style.  Style is a Dimension.

There exists an object known as The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable
Style.  The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style may be referred to
as The Pink Scarf for purposes of brevity.

The Pink Scarf may not be transferred from one player to another except
as specified in this rule.  The Pink Scarf may not be transferred to
non-player entities. =20

A player who is in possession of The Pink Scarf may be referred to as
The Style Police.  While in possession of The Pink Scarf, The Style
Police must make all posts to Fora, with the exception of Proposals and
Calls For Judgement, in eir best imitation of a lisp, unless The Pink
Scarf is Muffling.

The Pink Scarf is Muffling when The Style Police declares in a public
forum that "The Pink Thcarf Ith Muffling".  When The Pink Scarf is
Muffling, The Style Police must make all posts to Fora without using the
vowels a, e, i, or o.  The Pink Scarf is not Muffling when The Style
Police declares in a public forum that "Th Pnk Scrf s nt Mufflng".

The Style Police is encouraged to make comments on the style of all
proposals in the spirit of eir role as The Style Police.

At the end of each nweek, The Style Police shall choose a new recipient
of The Pink Scarf within two ndays.  The Pink Scarf should be awarded to
the player who, in the opinion of The Style Police, has made the most
stylish proposal in the past nweek, regardless of whether that proposal
passed or failed. =20

The new recipient of The Pink Scarf shall also receive 2d10 Style
points, and 1d6 points to be added to eir Score. =20

The Style Police may not award The Pink Scarf to emself.  The Style
Police may choose not to award The Pink Scarf for a given nweek, but
will lose 5 Style points and 2 Score points per nweek The Pink Scarf is
retained as a result. =20

At the time that this proposal is enacted, all players will have 0 Style
points and The Pink Scarf shall be in the possession of the player Rob
(also known as Plunder), but he will not receive points as a new
recipient would.  After this proposal is enacted, this paragraph will
delete itself from the rules (for purposes of tidiness).
}}

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosals
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:15:05 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<proposal>
<title>Helter Skelter!</title>
<body>
Create a new rule, named "Same As It Ever Was", with the following
@@@-delimited text:
@@@
For the purposes of the rules, and for all other purposes within the game,
the term "proposal" shall be considered precisely equivalent to the far
superior term "proosal". Each player who voted for the proosal that created
this rule gains 23 points and each player who voted against it loses 17
points (once only [[true anyway, but *someone* would complain ;-)]]) and
this sentence is then removed from the rules.
@@@
</body>
</proposal>

<proposal>
<title>This one's optimistic.</title>
<body>
Repeal rules:
7 [[does nothing]]
12 [[tells us nothing we don't know anyway]]
150 [[redundant, thanks to 152 (and I think anyway ;-))]]
155 [[doesn't work]]
</body>
</proposal>

<proposal>
<title>You want to recreate it.</title>
<body>
Amend rule 212 by replacing "three proposals" with "7 proposals". [[3 just
isn't enough. I think the whole thing's a bad idea, but 7 should be a
reasonable compromise.]]
</body>
</proposal>

uin.

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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposals
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:42:29 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I make the following proposals:

{{ __The votes were public but you shouldn't have known them__

Create a rule entitled "The votes were public but you shouldn't have
known them" with the following text:

Each player who voted for proposal 227 loses 23 points, each player
who voted against that proposal gains 17 points. This rule then
repeals itself.

}}

{{ __Public voting. Secret votes.__

Add the following paragraph to rule 31:

No player shall be awarded a win and no player's information (score
etc.) shall be modified based on how e voted on a given issue.

Repeal rule 155.

}}

Joerg

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-discuss: RE: spoon-business: Force of law, you say?
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:13:04 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Rule 1/0 falls into that category.

I'm pretty sure I can argue around that. However, I instead submit the
following Call for Judgement:

<statement>
Rule 22 has the following @@@-delimited text:
@@@
In the event of a Win being awarded, all scores are immediately reset to the
value 'zero'. If possible, play continues normally.

The player who, as of the 1st of January 2002, was known as "uniquely
identifying names", and the player who was selected to judge the most recent
Call For Judgement submitted by uniquely identifying names in this game, may
alter the rules of this game, and any other aspect of the game they choose,
by mutually agreeing, in a public forum, to such an alteration.

Additionally, either of the players mentioned above may, at any time, by
declaring that they are so doing in a public forum, Zap any proposal, or any
Call For Judgement. Zapping a proposal replaces its text with the string
"FNORD". Zapping a Call For Judgement replaces its statement with the string
"FNORD".

This rule may only be amended or repealed as described in this rule. This
rule takes precedence over all other rules, including those which claim to
take precedence over it. On the 21st of January 2002, this rule will be
modified to have the following ###-delimited text (which has no effect until
then):
###
In the event of a Win being awarded, all scores are immediately reset to the
value 'zero'. If possible, play continues normally.
###
@@@
</statement>
<analysis>
...about a great many things.
</analysis>

uin.

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The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and
may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited 

From: Antonio <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: a reiteration of the sushi
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 19:56:01 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ __The return of the Sushi__
Remove the last three sentences from rule 213.
Give possession of the Cursed Sushi of Babel to Bob The Voting Fish so =
that
the current (at the time of the enactment of this proposal) owner of the
Sushi no longer has it.
Append the following >->>>D delimited text to rule 213:

>->>>D
The Cursed Sushi of Babel may be awarded to players as a reward for
spectacular feats of evil.
[[uin's latest attempt for control of B Nomic springs to mind]]
After a player has had the Cursed Sushi of Babel for one Nweek it is
transferred to Bob the Voting Fish so that the former owner no longer has
it.
Additionally if a player has possession of the Cursed Sushi of Babel any
other player may, at any time, voluntarily transfer it into eir =
possession
until the end of the prescribed Nweek, so that the former owner no longer
has it.=20
[[This is in case the first player has some important duty that requires
precise wording]]
A proposal that awards The Cursed Sushi of Babel may specify a period of
possession shorter than one Nweek, in this case The Sushi is returned to
Bob The Voting Fish after the specified period of time.
In no case can a player have The Cursed Sushi of Babel for a period =
longer
than one Nweek, after which it returns in possession of Bob The Voting =
Fish
and the former owner no longer has it.
>->>>D

In reward for his cunning the player known as "uniquely identifying =
names"
is awarded The Cursed Sushi of Babel }}

sorry for this hack Rob, but this way the sushi actually serves a purpose
(other than sheer amusement of course :)
--=20
Antonio

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal:  _My Gavel Up Your Ass_  (aka No Judicial Kickbacks)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:58:54 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal _My Gavel Up Your Ass_

Create a rule as follows:

{{
_No Judicial Kickbacks_

There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.  Mike Judge is a non-player
entity.

No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player judging it.
Any Call For Judgement which attempts to identify the player judging it
will see that identity as Mike Judge.  Any Call For Judgement which
rewards or penalizes the player judging it will dispense those rewards
or penalties to Mike Judge.  The judge assigned to the ruling shall
remain the player assigned by the Administrator.

No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know how the
judge of that CFJ ruled.  Any CFJ that attempts to determine how its
judge ruled will see that ruling as "My gavel up your ass.  Huh-huh.  I
said 'Ass'."  The actual ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given
by the player assigned to judge it.

No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers specifically
to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically
assigned to judge any other specific CFJ (where specific CFJ means any
qualification that could refer only to one CFJ.  In other words, the CFJ
need not be referenced by serial number, as long as a unique
specification is given).  In addition, no CFJ may include a statement
which refers to the CFJs submitted by a specific player as a class.

Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned to
judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other
specific CFJ, as well as any CFJ statement which refers to the CFJs
submitted by a specific player as a class, must be judged "Refused" or
"Undecided", else the ruling judge will be added permanently to the List
of Misbehaving Judges, and may not be removed from the List of
Misbehaving Judges except in the event of a Win.  This rule supersedes
rule 209.

At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the past
10 ndays that referred specifically to the judge assigned to judge that
CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ,
will have its ruling summarily changed to FALSE.  This paragraph will
then delete itself from this rule.  The following paragraph is inactive
until this paragraph is deleted.

No ruling on a CFJ may be changed except by the judge assigned to rule
on that CFJ.  No rule may alter the ruling on a CFJ in any way.  Judges
may revise their ruling within one nday of the first posting of that
ruling in a public forum, after which time all rulings are final.
}}

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: RE: Proposal:  _My Gavel Up Your Ass_  (aka No Judicial Kickbacks)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:01:00 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Just spotted a loophole.  Revised version below.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Van Matre=20
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:59 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Proposal: _My Gavel Up Your Ass_ (aka No Judicial Kickbacks)
>=20
>=20
> Proposal _My Gavel Up Your Ass_
>=20
> Create a rule as follows:
>=20
> {{
> _No Judicial Kickbacks_
>=20
> There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.  Mike Judge is a=20
> non-player entity.
>=20
> No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player=20
> judging it.  Any Call For Judgement which attempts to=20
> identify the player judging it will see that identity as Mike=20
> Judge.  Any Call For Judgement which rewards or penalizes the=20
> player judging it will dispense those rewards or penalties to=20
> Mike Judge.  The judge assigned to the ruling shall remain=20
> the player assigned by the Administrator.
>=20
> No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know=20
> how the judge of that CFJ ruled.  Any CFJ that attempts to=20
> determine how its judge ruled will see that ruling as "My=20
> gavel up your ass.  Huh-huh.  I said 'Ass'."  The actual=20
> ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given by the player=20
> assigned to judge it.
>=20
> No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers=20
> specifically to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the=20
> judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ=20
> (where specific CFJ means any qualification that could refer=20
> only to one CFJ.  In other words, the CFJ need not be=20
> referenced by serial number, as long as a unique=20
> specification is given).  In addition, no CFJ may include a=20
> statement which refers to the CFJs submitted by a specific=20
> player as a class.
>=20
> Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge=20
> assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically=20
> assigned to judge any other specific CFJ, as well as any CFJ=20
> statement which refers to the CFJs submitted by a specific=20
> player as a class, must be judged "Refused" or "Undecided",=20
> else the ruling judge will be added permanently to the List=20
> of Misbehaving Judges, and may not be removed from the List=20
> of Misbehaving Judges except in the event of a Win.  This=20
> rule supersedes rule 209.
>=20
> At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged=20
> in the past 10 ndays that referred specifically to the judge=20
> assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically=20
> assigned to judge any other specific CFJ, will have its=20
> ruling summarily changed to REFUSED.  This paragraph will then=20
> delete itself from this rule.  The following paragraph is=20
> inactive until this paragraph is deleted.
>=20
> No ruling on a CFJ may be changed except by the judge=20
> assigned to rule on that CFJ.  No rule may alter the ruling=20
> on a CFJ in any way.  Judges may revise their ruling within=20
> one nday of the first posting of that ruling in a public=20
> forum, after which time all rulings are final.
> }}
>=20
>=20

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:18:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: lotsa recognitions and CFJ assignments
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Glotmorf's revision of 221 is recognized (221/2).
Glotmorf's "Rosetta Clause" is recognized (226/0).
UIN's CFJ is 227/0, assigned to M'cachessilnath.
Scoff!'s "Pink Scarf of Impeccable Style" is recognized (228/0).
UIN's "Helter Skelter!" is 229/0.
UIN's "This one's optimistic." is 230/0.
UIN's "You want to recreate it." is 231/0.
Joerg's "The votes were public..." is recognized as 232/0. (And you may
   want to amend it, since there is no proposal 227. :)
Joerg's "Public voting. Secret votes." is 233/0.
UIN's other CFJ is 234/0, assigned to Scoff!.
Antonio's "The return of the Sushi" is 235/0.
Scoff!'s "My Gavel Up Your Ass" is 236/0, and revised as 236/1.

And it was pointed out to me in a private email that I sent my recognition
of 225/0, and my assignment of CFJ 224 to gritter, to the wrong list.
Anyway, they're recognized and assigned and stuff.

...dave

Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:30:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: New player
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello --

My friend Jonathan aka Scoff! has introduced me to this game, and
having read through (most of) the necessary materials on the
nomic.net site, I wish to announce my intention to become a
Player, with the nickname of Congenital Optimist.

Thanks,

-k.
back to reading...

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just goes on forever."
               --Caitlin R. Kiernan, 11/27/2001

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:02:37 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The desire to become a player...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

... is only too great after discovering the Cursed Sushi of Babel. (and of 
course the hilarity that ensued)

Noting that I seem to be able to pass the Turing Test on most days, and 
that I consent to the designation of "Player", I hereby declare my intent 
to become a player of B Nomic, known as Bean.

Bean

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:29:03 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Do you know sushi like I know sushi?
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm going to voluntarily take the sushi off Plunder's hands for a while.

						Glotmorf

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:55:03 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: CFJ about the sushi
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 04:20 AM 1/6/2002 +0000, you wrote:

 > I present the following statement for judgement:
 > The lexical construct "official forum" refers to all forums.

By the power vested in me by the Rules of B Nomic, I herewith and hereby 
judge the statement "The lexical construct 'official forum' refers to all 
forums" to be TRUE.

official (adj)
1 : of or relating to an office , position, or trust <official duties>
2 : holding an office
3 a : AUTHORITATIVE, AUTHORIZED <official statement> b : prescribed or 
recognized as authorized <an official language> c : described by the U.S. 
Pharmacopeia or the National Formulary
4 : befitting or characteristic of a person in office <extended an official 
greeting>

The third definition is the applicable one in this instance.

A forum is designated by Rule 16/0 as "the means by which Players 
communicate."  Therefore any means by which Players communicate is 
prescribed or recognized as authorized by Rule 16/0 to act as a Forum. Any 
forum NOT prescribed by the rules of B Nomic -- meaning any means of 
communication which is not the means by which Players communicate -- is not 
an "official" forum. In fact, it may well be an "unofficial" forum.

Given this just and true interpretation of the Rules, any holder of the 
Cursed Sushi of Babel is required to adjust eir language as stated in Rule 
213/0 in any means by which Players communicate, as this is the criteria 
for an "official" forum. This shall hold true if the Cursed One is posting 
to a public forum (including but not limited to [email-masked] 
and [email-masked]), private forum, just sending email to some 
other Player, or even phoning another Player, as these are all "means by 
which Players communicate" and are thereby valid Fora under Rule 16/0.

If the holder of the Cursed Sushi of Babel participates in any 
communication with another player without adjusting eir language according 
to Rule 213/0, then the holder of the Cursed Sushi may be considered in 
violation of Rule 213/0. Of course, there's no penalty for that, so big whoop.

However, if the holder of the Cursed Sushi of Babel wants to call eir 
Grandma or write eir Congressman or communicate by any means with a 
non-Player, e shall not be subject to Rule 213/0.

Judgment has been rendered.

So it is. So shall it be.

-- The Honorable Gritter, Esq.

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Hmm.
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:39:38 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I change my name to the quoted string "Mike Judge".

tefkauin.

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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Revision of 236/1 _My Gavel Up Your Ass_
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:44:17 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Analysis:  This closes up the loophole Glotmorf so kindly pointed out,
along with a few other tweaks.  This is long, so here's a brief summary
of what I'm on about:

Part 1 - Designed to specifically prohibit graft, kickbacks, and
generally dishonest judicial behavior.  A judicial companion to the
excellent No Kickbacks rule.

Part 2 - Clear up the notion of CFJs having the force of law.  I think
this strikes a decent balance between the notion that CFJs should have
some legal potency, and the fact that according them too much potency
opens up the floodgates for Glotmorf's loophole.  Precedence of rules
over CFJs is established.

Part 3 - Establish a process for judicial review, so we can clean up
CFJs that have been rendered obsolete by developments in the rules, or
whose context has changed significantly.

Proposal _My Gavel Up Your Ass_

Create a rule as follows:

{{
_No Judicial Kickbacks_

If at the time this proposal is enacted, there exists a game entity
known as Mike Judge, the Administrator shall replace all instances of
the quote-delimited phrase "Mike Judge" in this rule with a uniquely
identifying name provided by the player Scoff!  If the Administrator
believes the new name would substantially alter the effect of this rule
in ways other than changing the name of the entity created, the
Administrator may select a name of eir own choosing.  This paragraph
will then delete itself from this rule.

There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.  Mike Judge is a non-player
entity. =20

No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player judging it.
Any Call For Judgement which attempts to identify the player judging it
will see that identity as Mike Judge.  Any Call For Judgement which
rewards or penalizes the player judging it will dispense those rewards
or penalties to Mike Judge.  The judge assigned to the ruling shall
remain the player assigned by the Administrator.

No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know how the
judge of that CFJ ruled.  Any CFJ that attempts to determine how its
judge ruled will see that ruling as "My gavel up your ass.  Huh-huh.  I
said 'Ass'."  The actual ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given
by the player assigned to judge it.

No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers specifically
to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically
assigned to judge any other specific CFJ (where specific CFJ means any
qualification that could refer only to one CFJ.  In other words, the CFJ
need not be referenced by serial number, as long as a unique
specification is given).  In addition, no CFJ may include a statement
which refers to the CFJs submitted by a specific player as a class.

Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned to
judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other
specific CFJ, as well as any CFJ statement which refers to the CFJs
submitted by a specific player as a class, must be judged "Refused" or
"Undecided", else the ruling judge will be added permanently to the List
of Misbehaving Judges, and may not be removed from the List of
Misbehaving Judges except in the event of a Win.  This rule supersedes
rule 209.

At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the past
10 ndays that referred specifically to the judge assigned to judge that
CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ,
will have its ruling summarily changed to REFUSED.  This paragraph will
then delete itself from this rule.  The following paragraph is inactive
until this paragraph is deleted.

No ruling on a CFJ may be changed except by the judge assigned to rule
on that CFJ, or by a Call For Judicial Review.  No rule may directly
alter or revise the ruling on a CFJ or specific class of CFJs.  Judges
may revise their ruling within one nday of the first posting of that
ruling in a public forum, after which time all rulings are final (except
in the case of a Call For Judicial Review).
}}

Then modify Rule 128/2, replacing the text
{{A Judge's decision shall have the force of law.}}

with the following text:

{{
CFJ Statements whose most recent revision is judged "TRUE" shall have
the force of law.  However, CFJ statements may not alter the letter of
the law by altering, deleting, or replacing the text of any rule.  Any
CFJ statement which alters the letter of the law, or asserts that the
current text of a rule is other than the text in effect at the time of
ruling on the CFJ, shall have no effect on the text of the ruleset, even
in the event of a "TRUE" ruling on that CFJ.

In any event of conflict between the rules and a CFJ statement, the
rules shall in all circumstances supersede a CFJ statement, including
CFJ statements which directly claim to supersede this or any other rule.
All rules supersede all CFJ statements, regardless of their respective
serial numbers.

The judge's analysis and any other text associated with a judge's ruling
shall not have the force of law, but will be archived by the
administrator as a reference to judicial precedent for future judges.
}}

Then add a rule:

_Judicial Rear View_

{{
If at any time a player believes that changes to the rules have
invalidated the prior ruling on a Call For Judgement (hereafter CFJ)
statement, that player may post a Call For Judicial Review in a public
forum.  The Call For Judicial Review (hereafter CFJR) must name the
serial number of the CFJ to be reviewed, and the player requesting the
CFJR.

The player who originally judged the statement, even if playing under a
different name, shall be assigned to review the statement and issue a
new ruling under current law.  If the original judge is On Leave or no
longer an active player, the Administrator shall select a new judge in
the same manner prescribed in rule 127 for selection of judges for Calls
For Judgement, with the additional stipulation that the player issuing
the CFJR is not eligible to judge.

The Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the
following responses to the Call for Judicial Review to which e was
assigned, accompanied by analysis:=20

1. Refused: A Judge may refuse to hear the Request if it lacks a clear
Statement or is not germane to the game.=20
2. True: The Statement is true.=20
3. False: The Statement is false.=20
4. Undecided: It cannot be determined at the time of the Judgment
whether the Statement is true or false.
The Judge's ruling shall be created as a new revision of the original
CFJ, under the same serial number.  Only the most recent revision number
of a CFJ statement may have the force of law, and then only as
specifically prescribed by the rules.   Judges may revise their ruling
on the CFJR within one nday of the first posting of that ruling in a
public forum, after which time all rulings are final.
}}

--Scoff!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Come on let's leave our misery
And crawl toward where we want to be
Can't we try?  Can't we try?
  --Yo La Tengo, "Night Falls On Hoboken"

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:43:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Antonio <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Hmm.
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I change my name to the quoted string "Mike Judge".
> 
> tefkauin.

I amend proposal 235/0 to read in full:

{{ __The return of the Sushi__
Remove the last three sentences from rule 213.
Give possession of the Cursed Sushi of Babel to Bob The Voting
Fish so that the current (at the time of the enactment of this
proposal) owner of the Sushi no longer has it.
Append the following >->>>D delimited text to rule 213:

>->>>D
The Cursed Sushi of Babel may be awarded to players as a reward
for spectacular feats of evil.
[[uin's latest attempt for control of B Nomic springs to mind]]
After a player has had the Cursed Sushi of Babel for one Nweek
it is transferred to Bob the Voting Fish so that the former owner no
longer has it.
Additionally if a player has possession of the Cursed Sushi of
Babel any other player may, at any time, voluntarily transfer it into
eir possession until the end of the prescribed Nweek, so that the
former owner no longer has it.
[[This is in case the first player has some important duty that
requires precise wording]]
A proposal that awards The Cursed Sushi of Babel may specify a
period of possession shorter than one Nweek, in this case The Sushi is
returned to Bob The Voting Fish after the specified period of time.
In no case can a player have The Cursed Sushi of Babel for a
period longer than one Nweek, after which it returns in possession of
Bob The Voting Fish and the former owner no longer has it.
>->>>D

In reward for his cunning the player who joined the game as
"uniquely identifying names" is awarded The Cursed Sushi of Babel }}

--
Antonio

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal revisions
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:04:24 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I revise proposal 225 to read:
{{
Add the following paragraph to the end of rule 3:

Whenever the current value of The Clock is displayed or referred to,
it shall be displayed or referred to with the number of nweeks
increased by one [[because The Clock is zero-based]].
}}

I think it makes more sense to always increase the number, no matter
where it is displayed.

I revise proposal 232 to be entitled "Third" and read:
{{ My third proposal for this nweek. }}

I revise proposal 233 to read:
{{
Add the following paragraph to rule 31:

No player shall be awarded a win and no player's information (score
etc.) shall be modified based on how e voted on a given proposal,
unless the player emself made the proposal.

Repeal rule 155.
}}

Joerg

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Proosals
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:22:48 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Repeal rules:
> 7 [[does nothing]]

Serves a useful purpose to new players who may be unfamiliar with Spivak
pronouns.  Does it enforce anything?  No.  But is it useful?  I think
yes.

> 12 [[tells us nothing we don't know anyway]]

One might think that, but I suspect in the absence of such a rule we'd
see a lot of CFJs questioning the validity of proposals / rules/ rule
changes that do that sort of thing.  If for no other reason, just to be
difficult.  One wonders if we have anyone around here who is inclined to
do things just to be difficult....hmmm....  ;-)

> 150 [[redundant, thanks to 152 (and I think anyway ;-))]]

It wouldn't be redundant thanks to 152 if you things went your way and
CFJs ceased to have the force of law.  The only thing currently making
scores part of the game state is a CFJ ruling, and possibly the
indication in rule 24 that the Roster is updated by the Administrator to
show the current game state, though that one is open to interpretation.

> 155 [[doesn't work]]

Hmmm.  I have seen the light.  Let's take everything that doesn't work
100% perfectly out of the ruleset right now.  If it isn't perfect, it
must be bad.  Rule 1 is right out -- "The name of this game shall be 'B
Nomic.'" but I can call it whatever I want.  I can call it Scoff!s Game
Of World Domination.  Rule 1 doesn't work...goodbye Rule 1...and so on,
and so on...

--Scoff!

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Titles, and a better bandwidth limit
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:41:49 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I revise proposal 232 as follows:

{{ __Titles, and a better bandwidth limit__

Create the following rule:

{{ __Titles__

Titles are names that are defined to be titles by the rules.

A player holds a title when it has been awarded to em as specified by
the rules, e ceases to hold the title when the rules specify that e
loses it.  Unless otherwise specified by the rules, it is possible
that no player holds a certain title or that the same title is held by
multiple players at the same time.

Players have an attribute named Nobility which is a list of all titles
the player currently holds.

New players initially hold no titles.
}}

Create the following rule:

{{ __Legislative Zealot__

Legislative Zealot is a title.

At the beginning of each voting period, all players currently holding
the title of Legislative Zealot lose it; then it is awarded to each
player with a probability of (n-3)/10 (where n is the number of
proposals submitted by the player for that nweek's ballot, or three,
whichever is greater).

For any player that holds the title of Legislative Zealot, the effects
that the failure or passage of eir proposals has on eir dimensions
shall be reversed, unless more than two thirds of eir proposals on
that nweek's ballot, rounded to the nearest integer, have failed
[[otherwise a player might gain lots of points by making lots of
stupid proposals that are certain to fail]].

}}

Repeal rule 212.

}}

Joerg

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:18:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay, here goes...

The Cursed Sushi of Babel has been transferred to Glotmorf.

gritter's judgement has been recorded.

The name of "uniquely identifying names" has been changed to "Mike Judge".

The following revisions are recognized:

236/2
235/1
225/1
232/1
233/1
232/2

...dave

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: mhH.
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:32:32 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>mhH.</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I change my name to &quot;the =
rules&quot;.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I apologise to the admin for =
generating additional overhead, and would give him some points, only =
he's still not a player (which fact causes me some degree of =
accountability-related angst, but never mind).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">uin.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This message is intended only for =
the use of the person(s) (&quot;the intended recipients(s)&quot;) to =
whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is&nbsp; =
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of =
applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised =
that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message =
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have =
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this =
message as soon as possible. </FONT></B></P>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The views or opinions expressed in =
this message are those of the author and may not necessarily be the =
views held by Azurgroup Limited </FONT></B></P>
<BR>

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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:46:52 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Statement:  The phrase "the rules" is not a uniquely identifying name.
Phrases in common usage in the ruleset, such as "the rules", "a
proposal", or "the public forum", are already in usage in a uniquely
identifying manner; players may not choose such phrases as eir player
names.
=20
Analysis:  No other entity has this name, but within the context of
linguistic usage in the game, it cannot be regarded as uniquely
identifying.   Or, as an alternate way of looking at it, "the rules",
"the current proposals", "the public forum" and other such constructs
may be regarded as de facto game entities, even though they haven't been
explicitly declared as such.
=20
Naming myself as plaintiff, and as defendant, the player known as
uniquely identifying names when I joined this game.

-----Original Message-----
From: Doig, Gavin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 10:33 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: mhH.

I change my name to "the rules".=20

I apologise to the admin for generating additional overhead, and would
give him some points, only he's still not a player (which fact causes me
some degree of accountability-related angst, but never mind).

uin.=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1992D.3D78B290
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<TITLE>mhH.</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D044543716-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Statement:&nbsp; The phrase "the rules" is not a uniquely =
identifying=20
name.&nbsp; Phrases in common usage in the ruleset, such as "the rules", =
"a=20
proposal", or "the public forum", are already in usage in a uniquely =
identifying=20
manner; players may not choose such phrases as eir player=20
names.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D044543716-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D044543716-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Analysis:&nbsp; No other entity has this name, but within the =
context of=20
linguistic usage in the game, it cannot be regarded as uniquely=20
identifying.&nbsp;&nbsp; Or, as an alternate way of looking at it, "the =
rules",=20
"the current proposals",&nbsp;"the public forum" and other such =
constructs may=20
be regarded as de facto game entities, even though they haven't been =
explicitly=20
declared as such.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D044543716-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D044543716-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Naming=20
myself as plaintiff, and as defendant, the player known&nbsp;as uniquely =

identifying names when I joined this game.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doig, Gavin=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 09, =
2002=20
  10:33 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  spoon-business: mhH.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I change my name to "the rules".</FONT> =
</P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I apologise to the admin for generating =
additional=20
  overhead, and would give him some points, only he's still not a player =
(which=20
  fact causes me some degree of accountability-related angst, but never=20
  mind).</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>uin.</FONT> =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1992D.3D78B290--

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Null
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:36:19 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>Null</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I change my name to &quot;Uncle =
Psychosis&quot;. Indeed. (I don't imagine this will require any more =
work for the admin, assuming he doesn't apply the previous change =
before he sees this one).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">uin.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This message is intended only for =
the use of the person(s) (&quot;the intended recipients(s)&quot;) to =
whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is&nbsp; =
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of =
applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised =
that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message =
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have =
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this =
message as soon as possible. </FONT></B></P>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The views or opinions expressed in =
this message are those of the author and may not necessarily be the =
views held by Azurgroup Limited </FONT></B></P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Revision of 236
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:49:29 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Revisions continue on the judicial reform front...thanks to all who have
offered input.  I'm conceding on the game custom front, because, for
one, the difference between force of law and game custom verges on
semantic anyway.  Either way we're talking about a compact among players
which one can choose to observe or break.  Then there's the
permissibility of the unprohibited rule, which I realized will take all
the steam out of a force-of-law CFJ anyway.
=20
So, here's a game-custom-oriented judiciary.  Anti-kickback provision
left in, whether flawed or no, for the sake of having something.  One
never knows whether someone might find altering game custom worth a
little bribery.  And, as uin pointed out, in a CFJ you only have two
people involved, so unlike rogue proposals the likelihood of graft
influencing rogue CFJs is much higher.  We need something...feel free to
perfect it in future rounds, or offer comments now.
=20

Proposal 236/3
(Author: Scoff!)
My Gavel Up Your Ass
=20
Create a rule as follows:=20
=20
{{=20
_No Judicial Kickbacks_=20
=20
At the time this proposal is enacted, if there exists a game entity
known as Mike Judge, the Administrator shall replace all instances of
the quote-delimited phrase "Mike Judge" in this rule with a uniquely
identifying name provided by the player Scoff! If the Administrator
believes the new name would substantially alter the effect of this rule
in ways other than changing the name of the entity created, the
Administrator may select a name of eir own choosing.  Finally, this
paragraph will delete itself from this rule.=20
=20
There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.  Mike Judge is a non-player
entity.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player judging it.
Any Call For Judgement which attempts to identify the player judging it
will see that identity as Mike Judge. Any Call For Judgement which
rewards or penalizes the player judging it will dispense those rewards
or penalties to Mike Judge. The judge assigned to the ruling shall
remain the player assigned by the Administrator.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know how the
judge of that CFJ ruled. Any CFJ that attempts to determine how its
judge ruled will see that ruling as "My gavel up your ass. Huh-huh. I
said 'Ass'." The actual ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given
by the player assigned to judge it.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers specifically
to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically
assigned to judge any other specific CFJ (where specific CFJ means any
qualification that could refer only to one CFJ. In other words, the CFJ
need not be referenced by serial number, as long as a unique
specification is given).=20
=20
Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned to
judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other
specific CFJ, must be judged "Refused" or "Undecided", else the ruling
judge will be added permanently to the List of Misbehaving Judges, and
may not be removed from the List of Misbehaving Judges except in the
event of a Win. This rule supersedes rule 209.=20
=20
At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the past
10 ndays that referred specifically to the judge assigned to judge that
CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ,
will have its ruling summarily changed to REFUSED. This paragraph will
then delete itself from this rule.
}}=20
=20
Then modify Rule 128/2, replacing the text=20
{{A Judge's decision shall have the force of law.}}=20
=20
with the following text:=20
=20
{{=20
Judges may revise their ruling within one nday of the first posting of
that ruling in a public forum, after which time all rulings are final
(except where revision is explicitly provided for in the case of a Call
For Judicial Review or a Proposal to Overturn).=20
=20
Calls For Judgement are intended to guide interpretation of the ruleset.
All judgements must be in accordance with the rules in effect at the
time of judgement.   Where the interpretation of the rules is unclear,
or the rules are silent or inconsistent concerning the issue being
judged, judges may consider judicial precedent, prior game custom,
common sense, the spirit of the game, and the best interests of the
game.
=20
CFJ Statements do not have the force of law.  CFJ Statements whose most
recent revisions are ruled "True" or "False" are regarded, with their
associated rulings, as explicit statements of current game custom.  At
no time does a CFJ Statement, even when ruled "True", become or create a
rule.  Rulings of "Undecided" or "Refused" and their associated
statements have no force of law or custom.  Only the most recent
revision number of a CFJ statement is ever regarded as a statement of
game custom.=20
=20
The judge's analysis and any other text apart from the ruling itself
shall have neither force of law nor authority as statements of game
custom, but will be archived by the administrator as a reference to
judicial precedent for future judges.=20
=20
In any event of conflict between the rules and a CFJ statement, the
rules shall in all circumstances supersede a CFJ statement, including
CFJ statements which directly claim to supersede this or any other rule.
All rules supersede all CFJ statements, regardless of their respective
serial numbers. =20
=20
CFJs must not directly create, alter, or remove rules.  CFJs may not
directly protect rules from alteration or removal from the ruleset.
However, the indirect effect of the ruling on a CFJ may require
alterations to the rule set or game state, to bring them in accordance
with the judgement.=20
}}=20
=20
Then add a rule:=20
=20
_Judicial Rear View_=20
=20
{{
I.  Judicial Review
=20
If at any time a player believes that changes to the rules have
invalidated the prior ruling on a Call For Judgement (hereafter CFJ)
statement, that player may post a Call For Judicial Review in a public
forum. The Call For Judicial Review (hereafter CFJR) must name the
serial number of the CFJ to be reviewed, and the player requesting the
CFJR.=20
=20
The player who originally judged the statement, even if playing under a
different name, shall be assigned to review the statement and issue a
new ruling considering current law from the current ruleset, current
game custom, and recent judicial precedents.  If the original judge is
On Leave or no longer an active player, the Administrator shall select a
new judge in the same manner prescribed in rule 127 for selection of
judges for Calls For Judgement, with the additional stipulation that the
player issuing the CFJR is not eligible to judge.=20
=20
The Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the
following responses to the Call for Judicial Review to which e was
assigned, accompanied by analysis:=20
=20
1. True: The Statement is true.=20
2. False: The Statement is false.=20
3. Undecided: It cannot be determined at the time of the Judgment
whether the Statement is true or false.=20
=20
The Judge's ruling shall be created as a new revision of the original
CFJ, under the same serial number.  Judges may revise their ruling on
the CFJR within one nday of the first posting of that ruling in a public
forum, after which time all rulings are final.
=20
II.  Appeal / Overturning a CFJ
=20
At any time within 7 ndays following the posting of a Judgement of
"True" or "False" on a CFJ or CFJR, any player may propose that the
Judgement be overruled by posting an Appeal to Overturn in a public
forum.  If limitations on the number of proposals per nweek are in
effect, Appeals to Overturn will not count against a player's proposal
limit.  The Appeal to Overturn will be placed on the next available
ballot as a proposal.  If the proposal is adopted, the ruling on the CFJ
or CFJR will be changed to "Undecided" by creating a new revision of the
CFJ with the "Undecided" ruling.
}}

-----Original Message-----
From: Doig, Gavin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:36 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Null

I change my name to "Uncle Psychosis". Indeed. (I don't imagine this
will require any more work for the admin, assuming he doesn't apply the
previous change before he sees this one).

uin.=20

DISCLAIMER:=20
This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) ("the
intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain
information which is  privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within
the meaning of applicable  law. If you are not the intended recipient,
be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this
message as soon as possible.=20

The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
and may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C19935.FCEDA78A
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Revisions continue on =
the judicial=20
reform front...thanks to all who have offered input.&nbsp; I'm conceding =
on the=20
game custom front, because, for one, the difference between force of law =
and=20
game custom verges on semantic anyway.&nbsp; Either way we're talking =
about a=20
compact among players which one can choose to observe or break.&nbsp; =
Then=20
there's the permissibility of the unprohibited rule, which I realized =
will take=20
all the steam out of a force-of-law CFJ anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>So, here's a =
game-custom-oriented=20
judiciary.&nbsp; Anti-kickback provision left in, whether flawed or no, =
for the=20
sake of having something.&nbsp; One never knows whether someone might =
find=20
altering game custom worth a little bribery.&nbsp; And, as uin pointed =
out, in a=20
CFJ you only have two people involved, so unlike rogue proposals the =
likelihood=20
of graft influencing rogue CFJs is much higher.&nbsp; We need =
something...feel=20
free to perfect it in future rounds, or offer comments now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Proposal 236/3<BR>(Author: Scoff!)<BR>My Gavel Up Your =
Ass</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Create a rule as follows: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>{{ <BR>_No Judicial Kickbacks_ </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At the time this proposal is enacted, if there exists a game entity =
known=20
as Mike Judge, the Administrator shall replace all instances of the=20
quote-delimited phrase "Mike Judge" in this rule with a uniquely =
identifying=20
name provided by the player Scoff! If the Administrator believes the new =
name=20
would substantially alter the effect of this rule in ways other than =
changing=20
the name of the entity created, the Administrator may select a name of =
eir own=20
choosing.&nbsp; Finally, this paragraph will delete itself from this =
rule.=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.&nbsp; Mike Judge is a=20
non-player entity. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player judging =
it. Any=20
Call For Judgement which attempts to identify the player judging it will =
see=20
that identity as Mike Judge. Any Call For Judgement which rewards or =
penalizes=20
the player judging it will dispense those rewards or penalties to Mike =
Judge.=20
The judge assigned to the ruling shall remain the player assigned by the =

Administrator. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know how =
the judge=20
of that CFJ ruled. Any CFJ that attempts to determine how its judge =
ruled will=20
see that ruling as "My gavel up your ass. Huh-huh. I said 'Ass'." The =
actual=20
ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given by the player assigned =
to judge=20
it. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers =
specifically to=20
the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned =
to=20
judge any other specific CFJ (where specific CFJ means any qualification =
that=20
could refer only to one CFJ. In other words, the CFJ need not be =
referenced by=20
serial number, as long as a unique specification is given). </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned =
to judge=20
that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific =
CFJ,=20
must be judged "Refused" or "Undecided", else the ruling judge will be =
added=20
permanently to the List of Misbehaving Judges, and may not be removed =
from the=20
List of Misbehaving Judges except in the event of a Win. This rule =
supersedes=20
rule 209. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the =
past 10=20
ndays that referred specifically to the judge assigned to judge that =
CFJ, or the=20
judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ, will have =
its=20
ruling summarily changed to REFUSED. This paragraph will then delete =
itself from=20
this rule.<BR>}} </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Then modify Rule 128/2, replacing the text <BR>{{A Judge's decision =
shall=20
have the force of law.}} </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>with the following text: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>{{ <BR>Judges may revise their ruling within one nday of the first =
posting=20
of that ruling in a public forum, after which time all rulings are final =
(except=20
where revision is explicitly provided for in the case of a Call For =
Judicial=20
Review or a Proposal to Overturn). </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Calls For Judgement are intended to guide interpretation of the=20
ruleset.&nbsp; All judgements must be in accordance with the rules in =
effect at=20
the time of judgement.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where the interpretation of the rules =
is=20
unclear, or the rules are silent or inconsistent concerning the issue =
being=20
judged, judges may consider judicial precedent, prior game custom, =
common sense,=20
the spirit of the game, and the best interests of the game.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>CFJ Statements do not have the force of law.&nbsp; CFJ Statements =
whose=20
most recent revisions are ruled "True" or "False" are regarded, with =
their=20
associated rulings, as explicit statements of current game custom.&nbsp; =
At no=20
time does a CFJ Statement, even when ruled "True", become or create a=20
rule.&nbsp; Rulings of "Undecided" or "Refused" and their associated =
statements=20
have no force of law or custom.&nbsp; Only the most recent revision =
number of a=20
CFJ statement is ever regarded as a statement of game custom. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The judge's analysis and any other text apart from the ruling =
itself shall=20
have neither force of law nor authority as statements of game custom, =
but will=20
be archived by the administrator as a reference to judicial precedent =
for future=20
judges. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In any event of conflict between the rules and a CFJ statement, the =
rules=20
shall in all circumstances supersede a CFJ statement, including CFJ =
statements=20
which directly claim to supersede this or any other rule. All rules =
supersede=20
all CFJ statements, regardless of their respective serial numbers.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>CFJs must not directly create, alter, or remove rules.&nbsp; CFJs =
may not=20
directly protect rules from alteration or removal from the =
ruleset.&nbsp;=20
However, the indirect effect of the ruling on a CFJ may require =
alterations to=20
the rule set or game state, to bring them in accordance with the =
judgement.=20
<BR>}} </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Then add a rule: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>_Judicial Rear View_ </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>{{<BR>I.&nbsp; Judicial Review</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If at any time a player believes that changes to the rules have =
invalidated=20
the prior ruling on a Call For Judgement (hereafter CFJ) statement, that =
player=20
may post a Call For Judicial Review in a public forum. The Call For =
Judicial=20
Review (hereafter CFJR) must name the serial number of the CFJ to be =
reviewed,=20
and the player requesting the CFJR. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The player who originally judged the statement, even if playing =
under a=20
different name, shall be assigned to review the statement and issue a =
new ruling=20
considering current law from the current ruleset, current game custom, =
and=20
recent judicial precedents.&nbsp; If the original judge is On Leave or =
no longer=20
an active player, the Administrator shall select a new judge in the same =
manner=20
prescribed in rule 127 for selection of judges for Calls For Judgement, =
with the=20
additional stipulation that the player issuing the CFJR is not eligible =
to=20
judge. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of =
the=20
following responses to the Call for Judicial Review to which e was =
assigned,=20
accompanied by analysis: </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1. True: The Statement is true. <BR>2. False: The Statement is =
false.=20
<BR>3. Undecided: It cannot be determined at the time of the Judgment =
whether=20
the Statement is true or false. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The Judge's ruling shall be created as a new revision of the =
original CFJ,=20
under the same serial number.&nbsp; Judges may revise their ruling on =
the CFJR=20
within one nday of the first posting of that ruling in a public forum, =
after=20
which time all rulings are final.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>II.&nbsp; Appeal / Overturning a CFJ</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At any time within 7 ndays following the posting of a Judgement of =
"True"=20
or "False" on a CFJ or CFJR, any player may propose that the Judgement =
be=20
overruled by posting an Appeal to Overturn in a public forum.&nbsp; If=20
limitations on the number of proposals per nweek are in effect, Appeals =
to=20
Overturn will not count against a player's proposal limit.&nbsp; The =
Appeal to=20
Overturn will be placed on the next available ballot as a =
proposal.&nbsp; If the=20
proposal is adopted, the ruling on the CFJ or CFJR will be changed to=20
"Undecided" by creating a new revision of the CFJ with the "Undecided"=20
ruling.<BR>}}</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doig, Gavin=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 09, =
2002=20
  11:36 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  spoon-business: Null<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I change my name to "Uncle Psychosis". =
Indeed. (I=20
  don't imagine this will require any more work for the admin, assuming =
he=20
  doesn't apply the previous change before he sees this one).</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>uin.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B><BR><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) =
("the=20
  intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain =
information=20
  which is&nbsp; privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the =
meaning=20
  of applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be =
advised=20
  that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination,=20
  forwarding, printing or copying of this message (including any =
attachments) is=20
  strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this message in error, =
please=20
  contact the sender of this message as soon as possible. =
</FONT></B></P>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The views or opinions expressed in =
this message=20
  are those of the author and may not necessarily be the views held by =
Azurgroup=20
  Limited </FONT></B></P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C19935.FCEDA78A--

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Another Revision of 236
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:20:38 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1993A.568C0457
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Point taken, uin.  I forgot about that one.
=20
Herewith, another revision:
=20
Proposal 236/4
(Author: Scoff!)
My Gavel Up Your Ass
=20
Create a rule as follows:=20
=20
{{=20
_No Judicial Kickbacks_=20
=20
At the time this proposal is enacted, if there exists a game entity
known as Mike Judge, the Administrator shall replace all instances of
the quote-delimited phrase "Mike Judge" in this rule with a uniquely
identifying name provided by the player Scoff! If the Administrator
believes the new name would substantially alter the effect of this rule
in ways other than changing the name of the entity created, the
Administrator may select a name of eir own choosing.  Finally, this
paragraph will delete itself from this rule.=20
=20
There exists an entity known as Mike Judge.  Mike Judge is a non-player
entity.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement may know the identity of the player judging it.
Any Call For Judgement which attempts to identify the player judging it
will see that identity as Mike Judge. Any Call For Judgement which
rewards or penalizes the player judging it will dispense those rewards
or penalties to Mike Judge. The judge assigned to the ruling shall
remain the player assigned by the Administrator.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement (hereafter referred to as CFJ) may know how the
judge of that CFJ ruled. Any CFJ that attempts to determine how its
judge ruled will see that ruling as "My gavel up your ass. Huh-huh. I
said 'Ass'." The actual ruling on the CFJ shall remain the ruling given
by the player assigned to judge it.=20
=20
No Call For Judgement may include a statement which refers specifically
to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically
assigned to judge any other specific CFJ (where specific CFJ means any
qualification that could refer only to one CFJ. In other words, the CFJ
need not be referenced by serial number, as long as a unique
specification is given).=20
=20
Any CFJ statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned to
judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other
specific CFJ, must be judged "Refused" or "Undecided", else the ruling
judge will be added permanently to the List of Misbehaving Judges, and
may not be removed from the List of Misbehaving Judges except in the
event of a Win. This rule supersedes rule 209.=20
=20
At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the past
10 ndays that referred specifically to the judge assigned to judge that
CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ,
will have its ruling summarily changed to REFUSED. This paragraph will
then delete itself from this rule.
}}=20
=20
Then modify Rule 128/2, replacing the text=20
{{A Judge's decision shall have the force of law.}}=20
=20
with the following text:=20
=20
{{=20
Judges may revise their ruling within one nday of the first posting of
that ruling in a public forum, after which time all rulings are final
(except where revision is explicitly permitted by the rules).  Eir
revised rulings are created as a new revision of the CFJ object with the
new ruling applied.
=20
Calls For Judgement are intended to guide interpretation of the ruleset.
All judgements must be in accordance with the rules in effect at the
time of judgement.   Where the interpretation of the rules is unclear,
or the rules are silent or inconsistent concerning the issue being
judged, judges may consider judicial precedent, prior game custom,
common sense, the spirit of the game, and the best interests of the
game.
=20
CFJ Statements do not have the force of law.  CFJ Statements whose most
recent revisions are ruled "True" or "False" are regarded, with their
associated rulings, as explicit statements of current game custom at the
time of the ruling.  At no time does a CFJ Statement, even when ruled
"True", become or create a rule.  Rulings of "Undecided" or "Refused"
and their associated statements have no force of law or custom.  Only
the most recent revision number of a CFJ statement is a potential
statement of game custom.=20
=20
The judge's analysis and any other text apart from the ruling itself
shall have neither force of law nor authority as statements of game
custom, but will be archived by the administrator as a reference to
judicial precedent for future judges.
=20
In any event of conflict between the rules and a CFJ statement, the
rules shall in all circumstances supersede a CFJ statement, including
CFJ statements which directly claim to supersede this or any other rule.
All rules supersede all CFJ statements, regardless of their respective
serial numbers. =20
=20
CFJs must not directly create, alter, or remove rules.  CFJs may not
directly protect rules from alteration or removal from the ruleset.
However, the indirect effect of the ruling on a CFJ may require
alterations to the rule set or game state, to bring them in accordance
with the judgement.=20
}}=20
=20
Then add a rule:=20
=20
_Judicial Rear View_=20
=20
{{

At any time within 7 ndays following the posting of a Judgement of
"True" or "False" on a CFJ, any player may propose that the Judgement be
overruled by posting an Appeal to Overturn in a public forum.  If
limitations on the number of proposals per nweek are in effect, Appeals
to Overturn will not count against a player's proposal limit.  The
Appeal to Overturn will be placed on the next available ballot as a
proposal.  If the proposal is adopted, the ruling on the CFJ will be
changed to "Undecided" by creating a new revision of the CFJ with the
"Undecided" ruling.
}}

-----Original Message-----
From: Doig, Gavin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:36 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Null

I change my name to "Uncle Psychosis". Indeed. (I don't imagine this
will require any more work for the admin, assuming he doesn't apply the
previous change before he sees this one).

uin.=20

DISCLAIMER:=20
This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) ("the
intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain
information which is  privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within
the meaning of applicable  law. If you are not the intended recipient,
be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this
message as soon as possible.=20

The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
and may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Doig, Gavin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:56 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-discuss: RE: spoon-business: Revision of 236

> _Judicial Rear View_=20
 =20
I think this would establish the (potentially somewhat dangerous, as has
been pointed out) precedent that CFJs remain true until reviewed. I'd be
much happier with simply adding something along the lines of "A CFJ
shall be judged based upon whether its statement was true at the time it
was submitted.", instead of the whole review process (except for
appeals, which are a Good Thing).

uin.=20

DISCLAIMER:=20
This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) ("the
intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain
information which is  privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within
the meaning of applicable  law. If you are not the intended recipient,
be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this
message as soon as possible.=20

The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
and may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1993A.568C0457
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: spoon-business: Revision of 236</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Point=20
taken, uin.&nbsp; I forgot about that one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Herewith, another revision:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Proposal 236/<SPAN =
class=3D122141118-09012002>4</SPAN><BR>(Author:=20
Scoff!)<BR>My Gavel Up Your Ass</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Create a rule as =
follows:=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>{{ <BR>_No Judicial =
Kickbacks_=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>At the time this =
proposal is enacted,=20
if there exists a game entity known as Mike Judge, the Administrator =
shall=20
replace all instances of the quote-delimited phrase "Mike Judge" in this =
rule=20
with a uniquely identifying name provided by the player Scoff! If the=20
Administrator believes the new name would substantially alter the effect =
of this=20
rule in ways other than changing the name of the entity created, the=20
Administrator may select a name of eir own choosing.&nbsp; Finally, this =

paragraph will delete itself from this rule. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>There exists an entity =
known as Mike=20
Judge.&nbsp; Mike Judge is a non-player entity. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No Call For Judgement =
may know the=20
identity of the player judging it. Any Call For Judgement which attempts =
to=20
identify the player judging it will see that identity as Mike Judge. Any =
Call=20
For Judgement which rewards or penalizes the player judging it will =
dispense=20
those rewards or penalties to Mike Judge. The judge assigned to the =
ruling shall=20
remain the player assigned by the Administrator. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No Call For Judgement =
(hereafter=20
referred to as CFJ) may know how the judge of that CFJ ruled. Any CFJ =
that=20
attempts to determine how its judge ruled will see that ruling as "My =
gavel up=20
your ass. Huh-huh. I said 'Ass'." The actual ruling on the CFJ shall =
remain the=20
ruling given by the player assigned to judge it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No Call For Judgement =
may include a=20
statement which refers specifically to the judge assigned to judge that =
CFJ, or=20
the judge specifically assigned to judge any other specific CFJ (where =
specific=20
CFJ means any qualification that could refer only to one CFJ. In other =
words,=20
the CFJ need not be referenced by serial number, as long as a unique=20
specification is given). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Any CFJ statement which =
refers=20
specifically to the judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge =
specifically=20
assigned to judge any other specific CFJ, must be judged "Refused" or=20
"Undecided", else the ruling judge will be added permanently to the List =
of=20
Misbehaving Judges, and may not be removed from the List of Misbehaving =
Judges=20
except in the event of a Win. This rule supersedes rule 209. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>At the time of the =
passage of this=20
proposal, any CFJ judged in the past 10 ndays that referred specifically =
to the=20
judge assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge specifically assigned to =
judge=20
any other specific CFJ, will have its ruling summarily changed to =
REFUSED. This=20
paragraph will then delete itself from this rule.<BR>}} </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Then modify Rule 128/2, =
replacing the=20
text <BR>{{A Judge's decision shall have the force of law.}} =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>with the following =
text:=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2>{{ =
<BR>Judges may revise=20
their ruling within one nday of the first posting of that ruling in a =
public=20
forum, after which time all rulings are final (except where revision is=20
explicitly p<SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002>e</SPAN>r<SPAN=20
class=3D122141118-09012002>mitte</SPAN>d<SPAN =
class=3D122141118-09012002> by the=20
rules</SPAN>).<SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002>&nbsp; Eir revised =
rulings are=20
created as a new revision of the CFJ object with the new ruling=20
applied.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Calls For Judgement are =
intended to=20
guide interpretation of the ruleset.&nbsp; All judgements must be in =
accordance=20
with the rules in effect at the time of judgement.&nbsp;&nbsp; Where the =

interpretation of the rules is unclear, or the rules are silent or =
inconsistent=20
concerning the issue being judged, judges may consider judicial =
precedent, prior=20
game custom, common sense, the spirit of the game, and the best =
interests of the=20
game.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>CFJ Statements do not =
have the force=20
of law.&nbsp; CFJ Statements whose most recent revisions are ruled =
"True" or=20
"False" are regarded, with their associated rulings, as explicit =
statements of=20
current game custom<SPAN class=3D122141118-09012002> at the time of the=20
ruling</SPAN>.&nbsp; At no time does a CFJ Statement, even when ruled =
"True",=20
become or create a rule.&nbsp; Rulings of "Undecided" or "Refused" and =
their=20
associated statements have no force of law or custom.&nbsp; Only the =
most recent=20
revision number of a CFJ statement is a&nbsp;<SPAN=20
class=3D122141118-09012002>potential </SPAN>statement of&nbsp;game =
custom.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The judge's analysis =
and any other=20
text apart from the ruling itself shall have neither force of law nor =
authority=20
as statements of game custom, but will be archived by the administrator =
as a=20
reference to judicial precedent for future judges.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In any event of =
conflict between the=20
rules and a CFJ statement, the rules shall in all circumstances =
supersede a CFJ=20
statement, including CFJ statements which directly claim to supersede =
this or=20
any other rule. All rules supersede all CFJ statements, regardless of =
their=20
respective serial numbers.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>CFJs must not directly =
create, alter,=20
or remove rules.&nbsp; CFJs may not directly protect rules from =
alteration or=20
removal from the ruleset.&nbsp; However, the indirect effect of the =
ruling on a=20
CFJ may require alterations to the rule set or game state, to bring them =
in=20
accordance with the judgement. <BR>}} </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Then add a rule: =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>_Judicial Rear View_ =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>{{<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>At any time within 7 =
ndays following=20
the posting of a Judgement of "True" or "False" on a CFJ, any player may =
propose=20
that the Judgement be overruled by posting an Appeal to Overturn in a =
public=20
forum.&nbsp; If limitations on the number of proposals per nweek are in =
effect,=20
Appeals to Overturn will not count against a player's proposal =
limit.&nbsp; The=20
Appeal to Overturn will be placed on the next available ballot as a=20
proposal.&nbsp; If the proposal is adopted, the ruling on the CFJ will =
be=20
changed to "Undecided" by creating a new revision of the CFJ with the=20
"Undecided" ruling.<BR>}}</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doig, Gavin=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 09, =
2002=20
  11:36 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  spoon-business: Null<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I change my name to "Uncle Psychosis". =
Indeed. (I=20
  don't imagine this will require any more work for the admin, assuming =
he=20
  doesn't apply the previous change before he sees this one).</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>uin.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B><BR><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) =
("the=20
  intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain =
information=20
  which is&nbsp; privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the =
meaning=20
  of applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be =
advised=20
  that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination,=20
  forwarding, printing or copying of this message (including any =
attachments) is=20
  strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this message in error, =
please=20
  contact the sender of this message as soon as possible. =
</FONT></B></P>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The views or opinions expressed in =
this message=20
  are those of the author and may not necessarily be the views held by =
Azurgroup=20
  Limited </FONT></B></P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Doig, Gavin=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 09, =
2002=20
  11:56 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  spoon-discuss: RE: spoon-business: Revision of =
236<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&gt;</FONT> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>_Judicial Rear View_</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I=20
  think this would establish the (potentially somewhat dangerous, as has =
been=20
  pointed out) precedent that CFJs remain true until reviewed. I'd be =
much=20
  happier with simply adding something along the lines of "A CFJ shall =
be judged=20
  based upon whether its statement was true at the time it was =
submitted.",=20
  instead of the whole review process (except for appeals, which are a =
Good=20
  Thing).</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>uin.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B><BR><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) =
("the=20
  intended recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain =
information=20
  which is&nbsp; privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the =
meaning=20
  of applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be =
advised=20
  that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination,=20
  forwarding, printing or copying of this message (including any =
attachments) is=20
  strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have received this message in error, =
please=20
  contact the sender of this message as soon as possible. =
</FONT></B></P>
  <P><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The views or opinions expressed in =
this message=20
  are those of the author and may not necessarily be the views held by =
Azurgroup=20
  Limited </FONT></B></P><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1993A.568C0457--

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: RE: Revision of 236
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:36:45 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Revision of 236</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; No Call For Judgement may include =
a statement which refers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; specifically to the judge =
assigned to judge that CFJ, or the judge</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt; specifically assigned to judge =
any other specific CFJ</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It occurs to me that =
this will lead to problems. If, say, it's unclear whether someone is =
available to be selected to judge a CFJ, we won't be able to submit a =
CFJ to clear things up...</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I give 1 point to =
Scoff!.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">uin.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=20
</P>
<BR>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This message is intended only for =
the use of the person(s) (&quot;the intended recipients(s)&quot;) to =
whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is&nbsp; =
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of =
applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised =
that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message =
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have =
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this =
message as soon as possible. </FONT></B></P>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The views or opinions expressed in =
this message are those of the author and may not necessarily be the =
views held by Azurgroup Limited </FONT></B></P>
<BR>

</BODY>
</HTML>

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal revision
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:21:58 -0000 
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the light of Joerg's p232, I revise proosal 231 as follows:

<title>Crucify myself.</title>
<body>
Amend rule 32 by replacing "a majority of affirmative votes out of all votes
they received" with "at least half again as many affirmative as negative
votes".
[[Make them good.]]
</body>

uin.

DISCLAIMER: 
This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) ("the intended
recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of applicable
law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have
received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding,
printing or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please contact the
sender of this message as soon as possible. 

The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and
may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited 

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: The most-revised proposal ever:  236 again
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 14:31:33 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

OK, let's try this.

Revision of 236 (again)

{{
_My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex Reconstructive
Surgery_

Replace the entirety of rule 155 with the following (compiled and
cobbled together from research into a handful of handily-archived dead
Nomic games, to which I am gratefully indebted):

{{
_No Kickbacks_

I. Legislative Kickbacks

A proposal is invalid if it calls for one or more effects that
discriminate in any way between players based on their voting actions on
that proposal, or any other specific proposal or proposals identified in
the proposal. =20

If a proposal, by adding, changing, or repealing rules, will generate
effects which are based on the way players vote on that proposal, or any
other specific proposal or proposals identified in the proposal, then
those rules generate no effects based on the way players vote on that
particular proposal.

II. Judicial Kickbacks

A CFJ is invalid if it calls for one or more effects that discriminate
in any way between players based on their judgement or non-judgement of
that CFJ, or of any other specific CFJ.

At the time of the passage of this proposal, any CFJ judged in the past
10 ndays that called for one or more effects that discriminate in any
way between players based on their judgement or non-judgement of that
CFJ, or any other specific CFJ or proposal identified in the CFJ, shall
have its ruling summarily changed to "Refused".  This paragraph will
then delete itself from this rule.

III.  Cleanup

After the enactment of all proposals passed in the nweek in which this
proposal was adopted, the following sequence of events will occur, in
numerical order:

1.  If an entity called "Bob the Voting Fish" exists, and the only rule
in the current ruleset that refers to "Bob the Voting Fish" is this one,
uncreate the entity called "Bob the Voting Fish".

2.  Section III. will delete itself from this rule.
}}

Then modify Rule 128/2, replacing the text=20
{{A Judge's decision shall have the force of law.}}=20
=20
with the following text:=20
=20
{{=20
All rulings are final (except where revision is explicitly permitted by
the rules).
=20
Calls For Judgement are intended to guide interpretation of the ruleset.
All judgements must be in accordance with the rules in effect at the
time of judgement.   Where the interpretation of the rules is unclear,
or the rules are silent or inconsistent concerning the issue being
judged, judges may consider judicial precedent, prior game custom,
common sense, the spirit of the game, and the best interests of the
game.
=20
CFJ Statements do not have the force of law.  CFJ Statements whose most
recent revisions are ruled "True" or "False" are regarded, with their
associated rulings, as explicit statements of current game custom at the
time of the ruling.  At no time does a CFJ Statement, even when ruled
"True", become or create a rule.  Rulings of "Undecided" or "Refused"
and their associated statements have no force of law or custom.  Only
the most recent revision number of a CFJ statement is a potential
statement of game custom.=20
=20
The judge's analysis and any other text apart from the ruling itself
shall have neither force of law nor authority as statements of game
custom, but will be archived by the administrator as a reference to
judicial precedent for future judges.

CFJs must not directly create, alter, or remove rules.  CFJs may not
directly protect rules from alteration or removal from the ruleset.
However, the indirect effect of the ruling on a CFJ may require
alterations to the rule set or game state, to bring them in accordance
with the judgement.=20
}}=20
=20
Then add a rule:=20
=20
_Judicial Rear View_=20
=20
{{
At any time within 7 ndays following the posting of a Judgement of
"True" or "False" on a CFJ, any player may propose that the Judgement be
overruled by posting an Appeal to Overturn in a public forum.  If
limitations on the number of proposals per nweek are in effect, Appeals
to Overturn will not count against a player's proposal limit.  The
Appeal to Overturn will be placed on the next available ballot as a
proposal.  If the proposal is adopted, the ruling on the CFJ will be
changed to "Undecided" by creating a new revision of the CFJ with the
"Undecided" ruling.
}}

end proposal
}}

<notes>

Bob the Voting Fish will be uncreated unless the Sushi modification that
makes Bob the default owner of the Sushi passes.

The kickback provision is less complex.  No wisecracking entities.  It's
probably circumventable, but it does establish that kickbacks are bad as
a matter of game custom, which seems to be a workable compromise based
on comments thus far.  It at least provides a launching pad for CFJs to
be issued against bribery-laced CFJs and proposals.

</notes>

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 16:34:33 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Kick in the Ass
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I propose: __Kick in the Ass__
{{

1. Create a rule: __Kick in the Ass__
{{
There exists a part of the game state known as the List Of Generally
Abhorred Stuff, which may be abbreviated LOGAS. The LOGAS is a list of
actions, and its content may be modified using proposals.

Whenever a player performs an action that is on the List of Generally
Abhorred Stuff, any player may respond in a public forum to the forum
message containing that action, with the text "<name> gets a Kick in the
Ass." <name> should be substituted with the name of the player
performing the action that is on the LOGAS.

Multiple Kicks in the Ass may not be given in response to a single
Action or Forum message.

When a Kick in the Ass is recognized by the Administrator, the player
who recieved the Kick loses 5 points and gains the attribute "Sore" for
the duration of one nweek.

The Administrator does not need to recognize a Kick in the Ass if he
thinks it is unfounded.
}}

2. Add "Sending HTML mail to a Forum" to the List of Generally Abhorred
Stuff.
}}
-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 23:15:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

UIN's musical name-of-the-hour is now "the rules".

Scoff's "'the rules' is not a name" CFJ is 237, assigned to "Congentital
Optimist".

UIN's musical name-of-the-hour is now "Uncle Psychosis".

The latest revision of "My Gavel Up Your Ass" is recognized as 236/3.

I'm ignoring the interim revision of 236, because it was promptly replaced
by 236/4 "Your Gavel, Extricated..." and quite frankly I'm tired of
cut-and-pasting the *almost* identical text. It's giving me a headache.

"Kick in the Ass" is recognized as 238/0.

UIN (or whoever)'s "Crucify myself" proposal is 239/0.

I'm not taking any more mail for a couple hours so I can watch some Cowboy
Bebop VCDs. :)

...dave

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:26:13 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Let's give this a shot
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<proposal>
<title>Don't do that!</title>
<body>
If the LOGAS exists, add "Changing your name to the name of an entity which
would be created by a current proposal" and "Violating Game Custom" to it.
</body>
<rationale>
The first is annoying. Had uin waited until Voting started to change eir
name to Mike Judge, Scoff! couldn't have fixed eir proposal in time. The
second is really annoying. It should be allowed, because sometimes it will
be neccessary, but it ought to be frowned upon. If it's really justified,
then the Admin will just not recognize the Kick.
</rationale>
</proposal>

-- 
Wonko 

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:31:34 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Let's give this another shot.
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here's a better idea:

I amend Don't do that! to be:

<proposal>
<title>Don't Do That!</title>
<body>
Create a new rule entitled 'Individuality' with the following #### delimited
text:
####
No player may change eir name to that of an entity defined in a current
proposal.
####
</body>
<rationale>
Much better. If Uin had waited to change his name to Mike Judge once the
Voting period had started, Scoff! couldn't have fixed it. This way, it won't
happen again.
</rationale>
</proposal>

And a new proposal:

<proposal>
<title>Don't do that! II </title>
<body>
If the LOGAS exists, add "Violating Game Custom" to it.
</body>
<rationale>
This is really annoying. It should be allowed, because sometimes it will be
neccessary, but it ought to be frowned upon. If it's really justified, then
the Admin will just not recognize the Kick.
</rationale>
</proposal>

-- 
Wonko 

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:50:45 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: And while I'm at it....
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

While I'm at it, I might as well make one last one:

<proposal>
<title>Don't do that! III </title>
<body>
If the LOGAS exists, add "Changing your name more than two times in one
nday" to it.
</body>
<rationale>
It gets on my nerves, and gives the admin more work to do.
</rationale>
</proposal>

-- 
Wonko 

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:15:49 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I propose the following proposal:

{{
__A little time-warping is acceptable__

Revise rule 204 to read:
{{
__Thou Shalt Not Screw With Time__

A proposal shall not, by its adoption, have any retroactive effect on 
actions, proposals, rules, CFJs, or game state.  A rule shall not change 
any actions which occured before its adoption or alter any game state at a 
time before its adoption.  However, a rule may allow changes to actions, 
proposals, rules, CFJs, or any other aspect of game state, so long as the 
point in time to be changed (if the time is an interval, the beginning of 
that interval is to be used) is after the time of adoption of the rule.
}}

[[ I think that the current wording is too broad, and might stop various 
proposals from doing good things.  This let's some possibilites open up, 
whilst still keeping the timeline intact. ]]

}}

Bean

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:43:02 -0500
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: spoon-business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Hungry Gremlins
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__Hungry Gremlins__

{{Create a rule titled __Hungry Gremlins__ with the following text:
{{If there exist entities known as Gremlins, then there is a Gremlin 
named the "Proposal Eating Gremlin".

If the Proposal Eating Gremlin is Active then one second before the 
votes of the ballot are counted the Proposal Eating Gremlin will eat the 
kth proposal on the ballot, as listed went sent out by the Adminstrator. 
  Where the kth proposal is equal to the nth Gremlin number, where n is 
the number of proposals on the ballot.

When the Proposal Eating Gremlin eats a proposal it is removed from the 
ballot and any effects that might have occured as a result of the 
proposal will be ignored.
}}
}}

Hey, why not? It will make things intersting.

Fenrir

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: De facto bandwidth limit math fix
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:15:37 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I revise proposal 232 to have the title "Titles, and a de facto
bandwidth limit", and by replacing:

 with a probability of (n-3)/10 (where n is the number of proposals
 submitted by the player for that nweek's ballot, or three, whichever
 is greater).

with:

 with a probability of (n-3)/10 (where n is the number of proposals
 submitted by the player for that nweek's ballot), or a probability of
 zero if (n-3)/10 is smaller than zero, or a probability of one if it
 is greater than one.

Joerg

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:17:40 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Proposal: Titles, and a
   better bandwidth  limit
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 03:11 PM 2002-01-10 +0100, you wrote:
>I might have splitted the proposal into a "Titles" proposal and a
>"Zealot" proposal" (or I could have made the repeal clause a seperate
>proposal), but I couldn't do so because I'm limited to three
>proposals. There seems to be at least one player (Bean) who might vote
>against the proposal due to this combination, even though he likes the
>Titles part.

Fortunately, I still have 2 proposals left, and so salvaging it is possible 
:)  (I was going to do something different with them, but it'll actually 
work better next week anywho)

I propose the following:
{{
__One outta two ain't bad__

If no rule called Titles exists, create a rule:
{{
__Titles__

Titles are names that are defined to be titles by the rules.

A player holds a title when it has been awarded to em as specified by the 
rules, e ceases to hold the title when the rules specify that e loses it. 
Unless otherwise specified by the rules, it is possible that no player 
holds a certain title or that the same title is held by multiple players at 
the same time.

Players have an attribute named Nobility which is a list of all titles the 
player currently holds.

New players initially hold no titles.

If the proposal which created this rule passed, transfer half (rounded up) 
of the points gained by its proponent for its passage to Joerg, and 
increase Joerg's Charm by one.  Then delete this paragraph from the 
rules.  [[ i.e., give Joerg half the points I get if this passes.  After 
all, it was Joerg's idea... I can't take *all* the credit. ]]
}}

[[ Well, if this passes at least then we can work on better Bandwith 
Rationing/Deterrent next nweek.  As it stands, we're coming down to the 
wire, and I wouldn't want that effort wasted (I don't agree 100% with the 
Leg. Zealot).  Hope I'm not stealing too much of your thunder Joerg. :)

NOTE!!!  This proposal does nothing if 232 passes.  So if you vote yes on 
232, please vote yes on this too... after all, it can't hurt! ]]

}}

And this way I can get my "Moron" title too.

Bean

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:08:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (late edition)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay, here goes... if anything has been overlooked, please please please
let me know ASAP. (I suggest Cc:ing relevant messages to me personally,
since they get filtered differently and I'll be a bit more likely to
notice them. Also any last-minute proposals, CFJs, etc.)

Wonko's "Don't do that!" is 240/0, and 240/1.
"Don't do that! II" is 241/0.
"Don't do that! III" is 242/0.
Bean's "A little time-warping is acceptable" is 243/0.

Thanks to whoever pointed out my error on UIN's "Crucify myself." proposal
- it's UNrecognized as 239/0 and re-recognized as 231/1.

Fenrir's "Hungry Gremlins" is 239/0.

Joerg's "Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit" is 232/3.

The latest flavor of "My Gavel..." is 236/5.

Bean's "One outta two ain't bad" is 244/0.

...dave

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:16:13 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Darn zero-based Clock... (nweek 4 ballot)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay, I hope someone fixes the Clock (for my definition of "fix") and
soon. I forgot that ndays are zero-based as well, so Voting has actually
already begun.

If anything is out there that should have been recognized, but wasn't,
tell me VERY SOON. Thanks.

The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 4:

Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
               Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
               Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

Current proposals are available at:
http://www.nomic.net/~g6/cur-prop.php

Voting will proceed until the end of 13 January GMT (that's 6 PM Sunday,
Central time, adjust as necessary).

If I've overlooked something, I do reserve the right to rescind this
ballot and issue a new one, but I very much hope that isn't the case.

I'm gonna sleep now.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:37:02 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: Who the hell are you anyway?
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

PROPOSAL: "Who the hell are you anyway?"

Append the following paragraphs to the end of Rule 2/0

{{
Names of Players are used for identification of Players. Any similarity 
between the string of characters that constitute the name of a Player and a 
string of characters in the text of a Proposal, Rule, or Judgment shall 
have no impact on the implementation of that Proposal, Rule, or Judgment, 
unless the language of the Proposal, Rule, or Judgment specifically 
indicates the string of characters is referring to a Player of that name. 
[[For example, "the player JohnDoe" or "the player named JohnDoe."]]

Other named entities in the game are not necessarily governed by the same 
standard for Player names.
}}

EXPLANATION:

If a Player changes their name to something like "the rules" or "B Nomic" 
this proposal would assure that such an action would not affect the 
implementation of any proposals, rules or judgments.

However, if a rule that implements a title says something like "the Player 
named JohnDoe" or "the Player JohnDoe" shall be the first person to hold 
that title, then that would be legitimate.

The final paragraph is to avoid confusion about referring to other named 
entities that are not Players, e.g. Bob the Voting Fish.

This allows someone to change their names to "the rules," but it prevents 
that action from having any negative effect on game play. The only 
ramification is that in official business we need to refer to players as 
"the player Plunder" ...which seems to be general practice anyway.

CFJ's are not included in the list of exceptions (e.g Proposals, Rules, 
Judgments), because in a CFJ whether the Statement refers to the Player 
name or to the string of characters in the Proposal, Rule, or Judgment is a 
matter of interpretation for the Judge to decide.

Vote for this proposal instead of #240, Wonko's proposal. :-) Wonko's 
proposal is less specific, and only prevents a Player from changing their 
name to that of an *entity* defined in a current *proposal*. For example, 
"the rules" is not necessarily and entity, nor would "the rules" 
necessarily appear in a current proposal....but it certainly appears in the 
rules.

--gritter

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:53:37 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: Ass Kicking is encouraged
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

PROPOSAL: "Ass kicking is encouraged"

If a rule named __Kick in the Ass__ exists, amend the rule by inserting the 
following text as the penultimate paragraph:

{{
When a Kick in the Ass is recognized by the Administrator, the player who 
delivered the Kick receives 5 points and gains the attribute "Kicker of 
Asses" for the duration of one nweek. Any player who successfully delivers 
three or more Kicks in the Ass in a single nweek receives an additional 10 
points, awarded upon the recognition of the third Kick in the Ass, and 
gains the attribute "Supreme Kicker of Asses" for the duration of three nweeks.
}}

EXPLANATION:

C'mon, ass-kicking should be recognized and rewarded as the art form it is.

--gritter

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:04:34 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Darn zero-based Clock... (nweek 4 ballot)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 06:16 AM 1/11/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Okay, I hope someone fixes the Clock (for my definition of "fix") and
>soon. I forgot that ndays are zero-based as well, so Voting has actually
>already begun.
>
>If anything is out there that should have been recognized, but wasn't,
>tell me VERY SOON. Thanks.

Awww, crap! You gotta be kidding.

Yesterday, you said:

"Rest assured, though, that I'll try to get everything recognized and added
to the Web site before 6 PM tomorrow (which is when the next round of
Voting starts, my time zone, OC)."

So I waited until this morning to submit my proposals. And I have a third 
that's in the back of my mind that I hadn't written up yet because I 
thought I had all day.

Grrrrrrr! Rule 215 requires that the Watch's value "must be displayed in 
public view."

Who do I bark at since it's not?

--gritter

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:28:52 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Joining the Game
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I wish to join the game.  What do I have to do?  A name, right... hmm *rubs chin and thinks*... The Voice.  That's my name.  Anyway, you can add me after the ballot for nweek 4 if you wish.

--The *Aforementioned* Voice

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:34:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Friday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First off, my official apologies for the timing of the ballot. I forgot
that the Clock's nday value is ALSO zero-based... I saw "nday 7" and
forgot to add a day. (i.e. ndays 7-9 are the Voting period, not 8-10 as
would make sense)

And the first, and hopefully only, ballot correction: 236/4 should be
236/5. The Web page has it right, fortunately.

(I'm kinda assuming most players will read through the Web page to brush
up on all the current proposals as they decide how to vote.)

And yes, once again, it's time for proposals recognition. (These will be
on the ballot for nweek 5.)

gritter's "Who the hell are you anyway?" is 245/0.
gritter's "Ass kicking is encouraged" is 246/0.
gritter gets a personal apology for my own lack of functional brain cells
WRT the whole Clock fiasco. Sadly, this isn't worth any points, Nomic
Dollars, titles, or kicks in the ass ('cept maybe directed at me, but I
don't think the rules allow for that).

The Voice is an official player. Welcome to the party.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:40:12 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Voting for nweek 4
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

And thusly I vote:

 > Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES

 > Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
YES

 > Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
 >                Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES

 > Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
YES [[ Who knows exactly what it does??? But I'll vote for it anyways!!! ]]

 > Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
YES

 > Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
YES

 > Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
NO

 > Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
YES

 > Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
NO

 > Proposal 236/5:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
 >                Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
YES [[I'm not 100% satistied with it, but it will improve the current 
system a fair bit]]

 > Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES

 > Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
YES

 > Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
NO

 > Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
ABSTAIN

 > Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
YES

 > Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
YES

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:57:33 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: ... and a proposal for nweek 5
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[Well, since I'm allowed 3 proposals/nweek, and I've only made 2... I 
would assume this counts towards my nweek 4 total. ]]

I propose:
{{
__The Clock was written in MATLAB__

Revise rule 3 in the following manner:

If proposal 225/1 passed, replace the HALF-delimeted text:

HALF
Whenever the current value of The Clock is displayed or referred to, it 
shall be displayed or referred to with the number of nweeks increased by one
HALF

with the WHOLE-delimeted text:

WHOLE
Whenever the current value of The Clock is displayed or referred to, it 
shall be displayed or referred to with the number of nweeks increased by 
one and the number of ndays increased by one.
WHOLE

otherwise, add the WHOLE-delimeted text as a new paragraph to rule 3.

}}

Bean

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:54:20 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Nweek 4 votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here are my votes:

YES > Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
 NO > Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
[[ This one worries me. Does every gremlin get a vote, or just the
Plague of Gremlins? How can multiple Entities comprise one Entity? What
effect is Hiding supposed to have? ]]

 NO > Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES > Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
 NO > Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
                     Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
YES > Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
 NO > Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
 NO > Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
 NO > Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
 NO > Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
[[ A 1/3 majority for a proposal to pass? Why would you do that? ]]

 NO > Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
[[ So if I submit 14 proposals, Dave gets to violate the laws of
probability? ... I liked the Titles part, though. ]]

 NO > Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
[[ Neither this proposal nor 236 will work. Neither does rule 155. But
it might as well not work in an amusing way. I'll explain why none of
these work after the voting results, when I make my own proposal. ]]

 NO > Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
[[ Even if I did want to see the spirit of the Sushi mangled like that,
one nweek would be far too long a time to own the Sushi. ]]

 NO > Proposal 236/5:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
                     Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
[[ In addition to this proposal not working, I see far too much
potential for loopholes in a proposal that huge. ]]

YES > Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES > Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
YES > Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
 NO > Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
 NO > Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
YES > Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

-- 
Rob Speer

From: =?us-ascii?Q?Jorg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: zero-based nweek 3 votes
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:13:39 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
NO

> Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
NO
(PLEASE VOTE NO ON THIS ONE! It might stop the game by putting more
than 2/3 of all players on leave, which will stop the clock, which in
turn will prevent garbage collection from working!)

> Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
>                Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
YES

> Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
NO

> Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
>                Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
NO
(Prevents scoring)

> Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES

> Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
YES

> Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
NO

> Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
NO

> Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
YES

Joerg

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:19:13 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: My Votes on the right list, now
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3093671953_154908_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

This looks like a better list to send these to.

Yes > Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
Yes > Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
Yes > Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)

The Plague of Gremlins says it votes, not each part of it, so it only gets
one vote. The Hiding thing is there because I thought it would be useful if
certain Gremlins could turn themselves off if they weren't needed or if
something to prevent them from performing their function.

Yes > Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
Yes > Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
No  > Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
No  > Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
Yes > Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
   > Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
Yes > Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
Yes > Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
No  > Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
Yes > Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
No  > Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
No  > Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
No  > Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
No  > Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
No  > Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
MU  > Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
No  > Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
   > Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
Yes > Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
Yes > Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
Yes > Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
Yes > Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
Yes > Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
No  > Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
Yes > Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

-- 
Wonko 

--MS_Mac_OE_3093671953_154908_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>My Votes on the right list, now</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<TT>This looks like a better list to send these to.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)<BR>
<BR>
The Plague of Gremlins says it votes, not each part of it, so it only gets =
one vote. The Hiding thing is there because I thought it would be useful if =
certain Gremlins could turn themselves off if they weren't needed or if some=
thing to prevent them from performing their function.<BR>
<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of<BR>
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Administrative Powers (Scoff!)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!=
)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)=
<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)<BR>
MU &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Compl=
ex<BR>
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)<BR>
No &nbsp;&gt; Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)<BR>
Yes &gt; Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)<BR>
<BR>
-- <BR>
Wonko </TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--MS_Mac_OE_3093671953_154908_MIME_Part--

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:24:15 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: My inaugural first vote!
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Nothing for me on the ballot this nweek, but I'll get around to that later.  However, I can read, so here goes:

Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)YES 
[[I like this better than the later one...]]

Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)YES

Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)YES

Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)NO 
[[I was tempted to vote yes, but I figured it would be bad if everyone did just because they were tempted.]]

Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)YES

Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)NO

Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)YES
[[In my face-to-face Nomic, I think that Judgements should be able to take place outside of the game, so...]]

Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of Administrative Powers (Scoff!)YES
[[But only because Wonko's typo rule will take precedence.]]

Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)NO
[[General rule of thumb: Can't read it, don't vote for it.]]

Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)NO [[Oh, who cares?]]

Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)YES

Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)YES
[[Oh, that is, like, soooo five minutes ago...]]

Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)YES
[[Why not?]]

Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES

Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)NO

Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)NO

Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)YES

Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)YES

Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)YES

Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)YES

Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)NO

Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)YES

Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)NO
[[Needs to be more specific.  What constitutes game custom?]]

Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)YES

Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable 
(Bean)YES

Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)YES

The Voice

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:10:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Darn zero-based Clock... (nweek 4 ballot)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> 
> Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
YES (I like the concept, but I suspect we will need lots of new proosals
and CFJs to make it work right!)

> Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
Err... well, NO, as it happens.

> Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)

NO
> Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)

YES
> Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
>                Administrative Powers (Scoff!)

YES

> Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)

YES(If we understand what it means!)
> Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
NO

> Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)

YES
> Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
YES (worth a try)

> Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)

YES (why not?)
> Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
NO

> Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)

NO
> Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)

NO
> Proposal 236/5:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
>                Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
NO (despite extensive reworking, I still dont really like it, and it is
far too long)

> Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES! (HTML is evil!)

> Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
YES

> Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
NO

> Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)

NO 
> Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)

YES
> Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
YES

> Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
YES

Cheers,
Iain

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:43:41 -0600
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: My votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
YES

> Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
NO

> Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
>                Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
YES

> Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
YES

> Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
YES

> Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
YES

> Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
NO

> Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
NO

> Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
>                Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES

> Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
YES

> Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
NO

> Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
YES

> Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
YES

-Congential Optimist

--
[email-masked] / seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just
 goes on forever." -Caitlin R. Kiernan

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:26:29 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Sushi
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I give the sushi to uncle psychosis.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:35:35 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ -- invalid proposals
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposals 229, 230, 231, 240, 241 and 242 are not valid proposals because=
 they do not use the Standard Delimiters listed in Rule 217.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:46:16 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Nweek 4 votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
Yes.

Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
No.

Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
No.

Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
Yes.

Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
Yes

Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
Yes

Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
Yes

Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
               Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
Yes

Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
Yes

Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
Yes

Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
Yes

Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
Yes

Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
No.

Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
No.

Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
Yes.

Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
No.

Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
No.

Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
Yes.

Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
               Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
No.

Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
No.

Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
Yes.

Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
Yes.

Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
No.

Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
Yes.

Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
No.

Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
No.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:33:48 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Revision of 246 "Ass Kicking is Encouraged"
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Revision to Proposals 246

If a rule named __Kick in the Ass__ exists, amend the rule by inserting the 
following before the last paragraph:

{{
When a Kick in the Ass is recognized by the Administrator, the player who 
delivered the Kick receives 5 points and gains the attribute "Kicker of 
Asses" for the duration of one nweek.

Players may recognize that eir action is on the LOGAS and Kick eir own Ass. 
When the self-inflicted Kick in the Ass is recognized by the Administrator, 
the player who received and self-inflicted the Kick loses 5 points and 
gains the attribute "Sore, but Self-Aware" for the duration of one nweek. A 
player who Kicks eir own Ass does not receive 5 points or gain the 
attribute "Kicker of Asses."

Any player who successfully delivers three or more Kicks in the Ass to 
players other than emself in a single nweek receives an additional 10 
points, awarded upon the recognition of the third Kick in the Ass, and 
gains the attribute "Supreme Kicker of Asses" for the duration of three 
nweeks.
}}

EXPLANATION

This revision permits self-inflicted ass-kickings, but disallows any reward 
(other than a slightly more honorable attribute) for kicking your own ass.

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:22:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: CFJ -- invalid proposals
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> Proposals 229, 230, 231, 240, 241 and 242 are not valid proposals
> because they do not use the Standard Delimiters listed in Rule 217.

I assume the above is your Statement for a CFJ?

In that case, this CFJ 248, assigned to The Voice.

...dave

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:30:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday edition)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Sushi is now in the loving care of Uncle Psychosis.

Glotmorf's proposals CFJ is 248, assigned to The Voice. (This was
mentioned in another message as well, but I might as well keep everything
consistent and stuff.)

gritter's revision of "Ass Kicking is Encouraged" is 246/1.

Remember, voting ends later today! Votes must be received by 4 PM Pacific
time, or 6 PM Central time, or midnight GMT, or something like that.
There's still several players who haven't voted. Please, do your civic
duty and vote!

...dave

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:32:22 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: JUDGEMENT CFJ -- invalid proposals
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the case of CFJ 248:

Statement (Glotmorf): Proposals 229, 230, 231, 240, 241, and 242 are not valid proposals because they do not use the Standard Delimiters listed in Rule 217.

Judgement: I judge this statement to be False.

Analysis:  The only reason this statement is false is that I believe that in rule 217, it is implicit that if the standard delimiters '{{' and '}}' are not present, then everything in the message is considered to be the proposal.  The standard delimiters serve to allow players to write things in their messages besides proposals if they have no comments to make.  Specifically, with proposals 241 and 242, if the starting and ending delimiters are, as I see them, understood [[since there is nothing in the proposals besides "If the LOGAS exists..."]], and they are not proposing a rule, so they do not require the title delimiter '__'.  Since these two proposals are not, then, invalid, the entire statement must then be false.  As the statement is worded such that all the proposals are grouped together and THEN accused of being invalid, the two proposals being valid falsify the entire statement.

-0- Thus Spake THE VOICE From On High -0-

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:22:32 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: JUDGEMENT CFJ -- invalid proposals
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hm.  Fair enough.  I'll therefore submit a more qualified CFJ (a different=
 one, of course, since a CFJ can't be modified):

Statement: Proposals 229, 230, 231 and 240 are not valid proposals because=
 they do not use the Standard Delimiters listed in rule 217.  As evidence=
 of this statement, I cite the analysis for CFJ 248.

						Glotmorf

On 1/13/02 at 11:32 AM [email-masked] wrote:

>In the case of CFJ 248:
>
>Statement (Glotmorf): Proposals 229, 230, 231, 240, 241, and 242 are not
>valid proposals because they do not use the Standard Delimiters listed in
>Rule 217.
>
>Judgement: I judge this statement to be False.
>
>Analysis:  The only reason this statement is false is that I believe that
>in rule 217, it is implicit that if the standard delimiters '{{' and '}}'
>are not present, then everything in the message is considered to be the
>proposal.  The standard delimiters serve to allow players to write things
>in their messages besides proposals if they have no comments to make. 
>Specifically, with proposals 241 and 242, if the starting and ending
>delimiters are, as I see them, understood [[since there is nothing in the
>proposals besides "If the LOGAS exists..."]], and they are not proposing a
>rule, so they do not require the title delimiter '__'.  Since these two
>proposals are not, then, invalid, the entire statement must then be false.
> As the statement is worded such that all the proposals are grouped
>together and THEN accused of being invalid, the two proposals being valid
>falsify the entire statement.
>
>-0- Thus Spake THE VOICE From On High -0-

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:41:35 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: This week's votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 > Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
NO

 > Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
NO

 > Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
YES

 > Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of 
Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES

 > Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
NO

 > Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
YES

 > Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
NO

 > Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
YES

 > Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
NO
[[Long live Bandwidth Rationing! Huzzah!]]

 > Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
NO

 > Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
YES

 > Proposal 236/5:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex 
Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
NO
[[Honorable intent, but execution is WAY too complex for my tastes. Can't 
be sure voting YES for this is a Good Thing(TM)]]

 > Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
YES

 > Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
NO

 > Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
NO

 > Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
NO

 > Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)
YES

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Scoff!  votes for nweek 4 / zero-based 3
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 12:54:34 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

YES > Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)

I don't like the ambiguity of Plague of Gremlins voting, and these
proposals appear to be creating something without creating a use for it
yet.  I also don't like that they have (completely undefined) Bank
Accounts.  However, I would like to see the Gremlins return along with a
proposal that demonstrates their Usefulness.

NO > Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES > Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
NO > Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)

Admirable intent, but makes it too easy to submit bogus CFJs as a
delaying tactic.

YES > Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
    >                Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)

Although I rather like the idea of the Sushi curse applying universally
to all official forums (with the possible exception of future CFJ
judgements), this deserves credit just for being a workable proposal
submitted by the Sushi.  :)  Plus, as it's an amendment by the original
creator to clarify his original intent, I can't say no to that.

YES > Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)

I'm for 1-based ndays and nweeks, if only because that's how the game
started, and I like consistency.  This fixes only half of that, but it's
a start.

YES > Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style
(Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)

I'm opposed to the methods by which this proposal attempts to obtain
votes, and I'm not a fan of its effect, either.  We need two words for
the same thing?  And the misspelled one is superior?

But I'm voting yes anyway, because it will make a good judicial test
case, and isn't especially harmful.  I don't expect it will pass,
anyway.

NO > Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO > Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO > Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)

Like Gremlins, I'd maybe vote for this if it comes back accompanied by a
Useful implementation that works.  The Legislative Zealot was too
fiddly.  I don't like the 3 per nweek limit, but I like it better than
the proposed Zealot mechanism.

NO > Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
NO > Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
YES > Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
    >                Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
NO > Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)

I voted against Gremlins anyway, plus this one fails to specify an
initial Active/Hiding state for the P.E. Gremlin.  And with a 3 per
nweek bandwidth in place, I'm not really in favor of proposal-eating at
present.  With a higher limit, or more players in the game to reduce the
odds of it happening to a given player, maybe.

YES > Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)

I think the meaning of this proposal is already implicit in the rule as
is.  You can't change the past, but you can change in the present things
that were created in the past.

NO > Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

See 232 for comments.

=20

--Scoff!

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:30:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (afternoon edition)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Judgment on CFJ248 has been rendered. w00t.

CFJ 249 is Glotmorf's other CFJ, assigned to The Voice. (It's random, I
swear!)

...dave

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:41:30 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: new players
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I discussed the game of Nomic in general, and B Nomic in particular, with=
 21 of my imaginary friends. Since there doesn't seem to be a game=
 requirement that players exist in this physical reality, they all agreed=
 to join. Unfortunately, that very state renders them somewhat impaired for=
 dealing with the internet in this reality, as well as the computers=
 required for accessing it, so they have asked me to relay messages to and=
 from the fora for them. Similarly, they have all given me their proxies,=
 so I'll be casting their votes as per their instructions.

						Glotmorf

The list of new players in the game is:

Maggie Peters 
Tabatha Sayle 
Shea 
Eliza Carter 
Mahmoud Rafik 
Bob Harney 
Cheryl Smith 
Jason Hodges 
Bob Brown 
Clio the Cat 
Janice Yeh 
Joe MacArthur 
Lydia Blankenship 
Steve Osgood 
Pirx 
Aknar the Hunter 
Fidelio 
Eva Vilevska 
Asnaggazeth 
Sir Fancys Bacon 

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:50:07 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: new players -- votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I discussed the current ballot with the people whose proxies I hold.  They=
 all felt notice was a bit short for them to make decisions on proposals=
 other than mine (I was able to explain my reasoning on my own proposals),=
 so they'll only be casting votes on my proposals:

Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
20 votes of Yes. 
Asnaggazeth voted no.

Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
21 votes of Yes.

Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
21 votes of Yes.

From: Antonio <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: nweek 4 votes
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:29:36 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here are my votes

YES >Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)
NO >Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)
NO >Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)
NO >Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)
YES >Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)
YES >Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)
NO >Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)
YES >Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
                 Administrative Powers (Scoff!)
NO >Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)
MU >Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)
YES >Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)
NO >Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)
YES >Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)
NO >Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO >Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO >Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)
YES >Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)
YES >Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)
NO Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
 >               Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)
YES >Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)
NO >Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)
NO >Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)
NO >Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)
YES >Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)
YES >Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)
YES >Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

--=20
Antonio

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:39:31 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Imagination
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In case this whole 'imaginary friends' thing is decided in favor of
Glotmorf, my 30 imaginary friends wish to be admitted to the game. They wish
to be known as:

Bob1,Bob2,Bob3,Bob4,Bob5,Bob6,Bob7,Bob8,Bob9,Bob10,
Bob11,Bob12,Bob13,Bob14,Bob15,Bob16,Bob17,Bob18,Bob19,Bob20,
Bob21,Bob22,Bob23,Bob24,Bob25,Bob26,Bob27,Bob28,Bob29,and Bob30

They have consented to give me eir proxies.

They all vote NO on 202, 221, and 226.

-- 
Wonko 

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:13:34 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: new players
Cc: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Fine.  I think this calls for a CFJ.  I'm hoping this can happen fast enough.

I hereby make the following Call For Judgement:

Statement: There do not exist players named Maggie Peters, Tabatha Sayle, 
Shea, Eliza Carter, Mahmoud Rafik, Bob Harney, Cheryl Smith, Jason Hodges, 
Bob Brown, Clio the Cat, Janice Yeh, Joe MacArthur, Lydia Blankenship, 
Steve Osgood, Pirx, Aknar the Hunter, Fidelio, Eva Vilevska, Asnaggazeth, 
Sir Fancys Bacon, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3, Bob4, Bob5, Bob6, Bob7, Bob8, Bob9, 
Bob10, Bob11, Bob12, Bob13, Bob14, Bob15, Bob16, Bob17, Bob18, Bob19, 
Bob20, Bob21, Bob22, Bob23, Bob24, Bob25, Bob26, Bob27, Bob28, Bob29, or 
Bob30.

Analysis:  Under rule 26, a prospective player must make a post to a public 
forum in order to become a player.  None of the above have done this.  Even 
though they may not be in a state to do this, the rules are still very 
clear that each prospective player must make eir own post to the public 
forum.  I don't care if this is discriminatory, until the rules are fixed 
to avoid such discrimination, this is not legal.

Bean

At 02:41 PM 2002-01-13 -0500, you wrote:
>I discussed the game of Nomic in general, and B Nomic in particular, with 
>21 of my imaginary friends. Since there doesn't seem to be a game 
>requirement that players exist in this physical reality, they all agreed 
>to join. Unfortunately, that very state renders them somewhat impaired for 
>dealing with the internet in this reality, as well as the computers 
>required for accessing it, so they have asked me to relay messages to and 
>from the fora for them. Similarly, they have all given me their proxies, 
>so I'll be casting their votes as per their instructions.
>
>                                                 Glotmorf
>
>The list of new players in the game is:
>
>
>Maggie Peters
>Tabatha Sayle
>Shea
>Eliza Carter
>Mahmoud Rafik
>Bob Harney
>Cheryl Smith
>Jason Hodges
>Bob Brown
>Clio the Cat
>Janice Yeh
>Joe MacArthur
>Lydia Blankenship
>Steve Osgood
>Pirx
>Aknar the Hunter
>Fidelio
>Eva Vilevska
>Asnaggazeth
>Sir Fancys Bacon

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:11:50 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Well, it was worth a shot...:)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay, I'll withdraw them.  Thought I'd put the ol' writing and roleplay=
 skills to constructive use, but setting up 21 email addresses wasn't=
 something I'd planned on.

You know, I could have just created 21 email addresses on various free=
 email servers and masqueraded as 21 people...but I like to think I have=
 ethics as well as imagination.

Thanks for the vote, Wonko.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:15:50 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: new players
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Whoops, jumped the gun a little on my CFJ... if the Administrator still 
deems it necessary, it can continue.  However, if not, I retract the CFJ.

Apologetically,

Bean

At 07:54 PM 2002-01-13 +0000, you wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:
>
> > I discussed the game of Nomic in general, and B Nomic in particular,
> > with 21 of my imaginary friends. Since there doesn't seem to be a game
> > requirement that players exist in this physical reality, they all
> > agreed to join. Unfortunately, that very state renders them somewhat
> > impaired for dealing with the internet in this reality, as well as the
> > computers required for accessing it, so they have asked me to relay
> > messages to and from the fora for them. Similarly, they have all given
> > me their proxies, so I'll be casting their votes as per their
> > instructions.
>
>Well, you'd better get those imaginary friends to a computer...
>
>Each of them must individually declare eir intent and desire to become a
>Player, and eir ability to pass the Turing Test.
>
>(Though not strictly required by the rules, I also desire that each of em
>have a separate email address - mostly because, in the near future, I'll
>mail out individual ballots, so players can vote via the Web site, and
>have votes automatically counted, thus making my life easier.)
>
>Then, after they become players, they can give you their proxies. Not
>before, sorry.
>
>I'm ignoring the whole "game custom" thing that players be in possession
>of physical bodies and independent sentience for now.
>
>...dave

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 16:43:54 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Twilight of the Bobs
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Bobs 1 through 30 have told me that they wish to change all of eir votes to
ABSTAIN, and they all forfeit the game.

Oh well, it was nice knowing them...

Just a little side note to Dave =AD now you can write on the website that
there were once almost 70 players in this nomic :-D
--=20
Wonko

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:17:15 -0500
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: My votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>Proposal 199/0:Me failed English? That's Unpossible! (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 200/0:They're everywhere! (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 201/0:They're Everywhere! Part 2 (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 202/0:Neener (Glotmorf)

NO

>>Proposal 203/0:Don't mess up vote counting! (Joerg)

YES

>>Proposal 220/0:Now You See Me, Now You Don't (Fenrir)

YES

>>Proposal 221/2:Justice Never Sleeps (Glotmorf)

YES

>>Proposal 222/0:Limitation of Veto, Explicit Clarification of
>>               Administrative Powers (Scoff!)

NO

>>Proposal 223/0:Sushi (Rob)

YES

>>Proposal 225/1:Displaying non-zero-based nweeks (Joerg)

NO

>>Proposal 226/0:Rosetta Clause (Glotmorf)

YES

>>Proposal 228/0:The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style (Scoff!)

NO

>>Proposal 229/0:Helter Skelter! (Uncle Psychosis)

YES

>>Proposal 230/0:This one's optimistic. (Uncle Psychosis)

NO

>>Proposal 231/1:Crucify myself. (Uncle Psychosis)

YES

>>Proposal 232/3:Titles, and a de facto bandwidth limit (Joerg)

NO

>>Proposal 233/1:Public voting. Secret votes. (Joerg)

NO

>>Proposal 235/1:The return of the Sushi (Antonio)

NO

>>Proposal 236/4:My Gavel, Extricated From Your Ass After Complex
>>               Reconstructive Surgery (Scoff!)

NO

>>Proposal 238/0:Kick in the Ass (Rob)

YES

>>Proposal 239/0:Hungry Gremlins (Fenrir)

YES

>>Proposal 240/1:Don't do that! (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 241/0:Don't do that! II (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 242/0:Don't do that! III (Wonko)

YES

>>Proposal 243/0:A little time-warping is acceptable (Bean)

YES

>>Proposal 244/0:One outta two ain't bad (Bean)

YES

Fenrir

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:18:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ - Just to be difficult
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Statement:
The rules do not require the entity which casts votes to be a player,
and hence the votes submitted by Glortmorfs imaginary friends (and,
for that matter, Wonkos friends) are valid, and should be taken in to
account when the administrator tallies the votes and determines the
passage or failure of the proposals in the cuurent ballot.

cheers,
Iain  

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:37:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: So this dosent happen again
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal: {{Create a rule entitled: __Limitation of Voting__
which contains the following:
{{Only entites specifically allowed by these rules may cast votes.

Players may vote.}}
}}

Proposal: {{Create a rule entitled: __Power to the Gremlins!__
which contains the following:
{{If the entity known as "the Plague of Gremlins" exists, then it may
 vote as specified elsewhere in these rules. Else, this rule deletes
itself}}
}}

cheers,
Iain

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:43:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: CFJ - Just to be difficult
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

21 of my imaginary friends (names withheld for privacy and spam
protection) vote NO to proposals 202/0, 221/2 and 226/0.

cheers,
Iain  

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Donald Whytock wrote:

> On 1/13/02 at 11:18 PM ID Scott wrote:
> 
> >Statement:
> >The rules do not require the entity which casts votes to be a player,
> >and hence the votes submitted by Glortmorfs imaginary friends (and,
> >for that matter, Wonkos friends) are valid, and should be taken in to
> >account when the administrator tallies the votes and determines the
> >passage or failure of the proposals in the cuurent ballot.
> >
> >cheers,
> >Iain
> 
> Difficult doesn't even scratch the surface, lad.  I at least was
> prepared to provide turing-test question responses for my imaginary
> friends.  But if a voter doesn't have to be a player, a voter doesn't
>have to pass a turing test either, or have the email address that
> Our Admin was requiring; therefore one could have: "50,000 of my
>imaginary friends (names withheld for purposes of confidentiality and
>spam prevention) all vote Yes to my proposal."
> 
> 						Glotmorf
> 
> 
> 

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:56:33 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Vote change
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I change my vote on proposal 229 to YES. 

Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:23:34 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: Kickback Interpretation
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I submit the following Statement to be judged:

{{
Any points awarded as a result of the passage of Proposal 229 and/or a rule 
resulting from its passage must be awarded to Bob the Voting Fish as 
indicated by Rule 155, assuming Rule 155 was in effect at the time of the 
passage of Proposal 229. If Proposal 229 failed to pass, this CFJ is 
rescinded.
}}

The Defendant in this matter shall be the player who submitted Proposal 229. 

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:40:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

READ THIS. You want to, really you do. At least the top part and the
bottom part; the middle is kinda slow. There are results and CFJ
assignments and recognitions and all sorts of cool stuff.

Okay, first off, to address the 51 new players: None of 'em ever sent
"I am a player" messages to any public forum, I won't even worry about
whether they need to pass the Turing Test or anything like that.

gritter's "Immunity Idol" proposal is 250/0.

Iain's CFJ ("votes don't have to be cast by players") is 251, assigned to
Rob. Since Bobs 1-30 changed all their votes to "ABSTAIN" and forfeited,
their votes don't count, but the votes of Glotmorf's friends could affect
the outcome of three proposals (specifically, 202, 221, and 226).

I'm going to abstain from counting the results of those three proposals,
since they're still in dispute for the time being.

Iain's "Limitation of Voting" is 252/0.
Iain's "Power to the Gremlins!" is 253/0.

These were both received before the end of nweek 4, and Iain didn't have
any proposals on the current ballot, so if Bandwidth Rationing still
exists next nweek, they won't count against eir 3-proposal limit.

gritter's "Kickback Interpretation" CFJ is 254, assigned to Bean. Should
proposal 229 pass, I won't adjust the scores as it requires until this CFJ
is resolved.

While we're on the whole CFJ trend: it's been seven ndays since these CFJs
were assigned, and no judgment has been rendered, so M'cachessilnath and
Scoff! are recused from CFJs 227 and 234 respectively. Each is penalized
10 points, and each is added to the List of Misbehaving Judges for two
nweeks.

CFJ 227 is reassigned to Congenital Optimist.
CFJ 234 is reassigned to Wonko.

Now, let's start running through the ballots that CAN be counted...

199/0 passes (12-1).
Created 255/0.
Wonko scores 14 points.

200/0 passes (10-3).
Created 256/0.
Created the Gremlinometer (which currently reads 53).
Wonko scores 9 points.

201/0 fails (6-7).
Wonko loses 5 points.

202/0 is not being counted yet (currently: failed 3-10)

203/0 passes (12-1).
Created 32/7.
Joerg scores 8 points.

220/0 passes (8-5).
Created 205/1 (rectified: changed "who's" to "whose")
Fenrir scores 10 points.

221/2 is not being counted yet (currently: failed 5-8)

222/0 passes (12-1).
Created 32/8.
Created 126/2.
Created 257/0.
Scoff! scores 9 points.

223/0 passes (10-3).
My interpretation of this: replace "Official Forum" with the 31st and 32nd
words of Rule 28 ("public Forum") in rule 213.
Created 213/1 (rectified: changed "an public forum" to "a public forum").
Rob scores 16 points.

225/1 passes (9-3-1).
Created 3/3.
Fixed "The Clock" as displayed on the Web site. (Yay.)
Joerg scores 13 points.

226/0 is not being counted yet (currently: passed 7-6).

228/0 passes (11-2).
Created "The Pink Cashmere Scarf Of Impeccable Style".
Created 258/0.
Gave The Pink Scarf to Rob.
Created "Style" for all players (initial value 0).
Created 258/1.
Scoff! scores 17 points.

229/0 passes (8-5).
Created 259/0.
(I'm not doing the self-modification part of this rule yet, because its
interpretation is still questionable, pending the result of a CFJ. Ditto
for the awards of points mandated by the self-modifying part of said
rule.)
Uncle Psychosis scores 14 points.

230/0 fails (2-11).
Uncle Psychosis loses 3 points.

231/1 fails (4-9).
Uncle Psychosis loses 1 point.

232/3 fails (3-10).
Joerg loses 2 points.

233/1 fails (5-8).
Joerg loses 5 points.

235/1 fails (4-8-1).
Antonio loses 3 points.

236/5 fails (5-8).
The Administrator breathes a sigh of relief as now e doesn't have to
cut-and-paste all those rules.
Scoff! loses 2 points.

238/0 passes (11-2).
Created "The List of Generally Abhorred Stuff."
Created 260/0.
Added "Sending HTML mail to a Forum" to the LOGAS.
Rob scores 14 points.

239/0 passes (8-5).
Created 261/0.
Created "The Proposal Eating Gremlin".
Fenrir scores 12 points.

240/1 passes (8-5).
Created 262/0.
Wonko scores 13 points.

241/0 fails (3-9-1).
Wonko loses 5 points.

242/0 passes (12-1).
Added "Changing your name more than two times in one nday" to the LOGAS.
Wonko scores 6 points.

243/0 passes (7-6).
Created 204/1.
Bean scores 8 points.

244/0 passes (11-2).
Created 263/0.
Bean scores 11 points.
Bean loses 6 points.
Joerg scores 6 points.
Created 263/1.

Okay, that's it for those issues which can be counted at this point. Whew.
At least this wasn't as bad as the last one...

The following players earn +1 to their Activity:

Antonio, Bean, Congenital Optimist, Fenrir, Glotmorf, gritter, Iain,
Joerg, Rob, Scoff!, Uncle Psychosis, Wonko, The Voice.

The following players "earn" -1 Activity: M'cachessilnath, Octagon, Turgul.

As a result of the passage of 220/0, M'cachessilnath and Turgul are placed
on Forced Leave.

Points adjustments were all detailed above.

And now, the inevitable cut'n'paste from the current roster:

Bean
Activity 1 Charm 2 Distance 13.19 Score 13 Speed 13.19 Style 0

Congenital Optimist
Activity 1 Charm 0 Distance 1 Score 0 Speed 1 Style 0

Fenrir
Activity 2 Charm 4 Distance 47.21 Score 47 Speed 32.04 Style 0

Glotmorf
Activity 2 Charm 1 Distance 45.06 Score 45 Speed 0.04 Style 0

gritter
Activity 2 Charm -4 Distance 4.47 Score 0 Speed 0.35 Style 0

Iain
Activity 2 Charm 1 Distance 24.1 Score 24 Speed 0.06 Style 0

Joerg
Activity 2 Charm 6 Distance 97.21 Score 97 Speed 19.97 Style 0

M'cachessilnath
Activity -2 Charm -2 Distance 2.83 Score 0 Speed -7.42 Style 0

Octagon
Activity 0 Charm -1 Distance 10.05 Score 10 Speed -0.05 Style 0

Rob
Activity 2 Charm 7 Distance 120.22 Score 120 Speed 30.08 Style 0

Scoff!
Activity 2 Charm 1 Distance 24.1 Score 24 Speed 14 Style 0

The Voice
Activity 1 Charm 0 Distance 1 Score 0 Speed 1 Style 0

Turgul
Activity -2 Charm -1 Distance 10.25 Score 10 Speed 0.15 Style 0

Uncle Psychosis
Activity 0 Charm 4 Distance 100.08 Score 100 Speed 9.94 Style 0

Wonko
Activity 2 Charm 14 Distance 193.52 Score 193 Speed 32.07 Style 0

There are already a few proosals on the next ballot. Assuming my brain
hasn't been broken by the Mighty Morphin Clock Implementation, this nweek
runs through 23 January 2002 (Voting will be 21-23 January).

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Blowfish!
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:52:45 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> The phrase isn't "half again." The phrase is "half again as many" as in 
> "take as many as you have then take half that again."
>
Just so.

> I'm not arguing for the phrase; idioms are unclear because they depend
upon 
> locale. Although, I find the whole situation amusing because I couldn't 
> even begin to count the number of times I've heard this phrase, and it's 
> mind-boggling that someone doesn't get it. But then I'm sure folk up in
the 
> Northeast say all sorts of funny things, too, like "fuhgeddaboutit." And 
> Canada! My god! They put gravy and cheese curds on french fries. I'm 
> surprised they can speak at all after that. ;-)

In appreciation of this message (although not without ulterior motive) I
present the first annual Uncle Psychosis Comedy Award to gritter. This award
consists of me giving him three points.

uin.
Yes, I know.

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The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and
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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:08:59 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CORRECTION:  It will have been 7 full days from my selection at 2:18pm
today (Central time), since you sent the Daily Recognizer that initially
assigned me to the CFJ on Mon 1/7/2002 at 2:18 PM (Central time).  I
should not be recused if I have offered a judgement by that time.  Note
that the rule specifies seven days, not ndays.

If you disagree, enter the above paragraph as a CFJ.

Meanwhile, my judgement is on the way.

--Scoff!

> While we're on the whole CFJ trend: it's been seven ndays=20
> since these CFJs
> were assigned, and no judgment has been rendered, so=20
> M'cachessilnath and
> Scoff! are recused from CFJs 227 and 234 respectively. Each=20
> is penalized
> 10 points, and each is added to the List of Misbehaving Judges for two
> nweeks.
>=20
> CFJ 227 is reassigned to Congenital Optimist.
> CFJ 234 is reassigned to Wonko.

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Judgement: CFJ 234
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:24:37 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In response to CFJ 234, I give the following decision:

<decision>
<response>

The Statement is FALSE.

</response>
<analysis>

First, it is obvious that the rule set text of Rule 22 does not
currently read as claimed by the plaintiff in this CFJ.  Therefore, the
mere letter of the rules is enough to qualify this statement as false.

Moreover, per Rule 18/1, "Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the
Ruleset is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of Rule
Changes, which are permitted only when a Rule or set of Rules explicitly
or implicitly permits them. A Rule Change consists of the creation
(enactment), modification (amendment), or deletion (repeal) of a rule."

The only possible candidate for explicit or implicit permission for CFJs
to change rules under the current ruleset is the statement in Rule 128/2
that "A Judge's decision shall have the force of law."

However, it does not say that the decision shall *become* law, just that
it shall share the force of law.  Therefore, I interpret Rule 128/2 to
indicate that under current rules, a CFJ decision has the force of a
rule in the rule set, without being implicitly empowered to alter or
change the rule set itself.

Thus, by Rule 18, this CFJ lacks the power to change the rule set, and
is therefore doubly FALSE.

To sum up what we have learned: Under current rules at the time of
ruling, CFJs have no present power to enact Rule Changes, but the
decisions on them do presently have the force of law (i.e. they are
enforceable as rules).

</analysis>
</decision>

[[Note: The above decision, analysis *and* response, has the force of
law.  That opens up a whole other can of worms.  Anyone want to CFJ
whether a decision is inclusive of the analysis, or only the response?]]

--Scoff!

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:45:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Judgement CFJ 237
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Judgement: UNDECIDED

>  Statement: The phrase "the rules" is not a uniquely
>  identifying name. Phrases in common usage in the ruleset, such
>  as "the rules", "a proposal", or "the public forum", are
>  already in usage in a uniquely identifying manner; players may
>  not choose such phrases as eir player names.

Analysis by Congenital Optimist:

My initial inclination was to rule this as TRUE, but after
analyzing the statement as written, I wasn't sure that I could.
To say that "the phrase 'the rules' is not a uniquely identifying
name" and then say that the phrase is "already in usage as a
uniquely identifying manner" seems to be to be contradictory.

Were this question to be rendered up for judgement again, I would
suggest that it be rephrased along the following lines:

1) The phrase "the rules" is not a uniquely identifying name. It
is a phrase in common usage, such as "a proposal" or "the public
forum"; players may not choose such phrases as eir player names.

or

2) The phrase "the rules" is a uniquely identifying name
referring to the B Nomic rules.  As such, a player cannot choose
the phrase as eir player name.

[[This is a somewhat wussy judgement and all, but it being my
first one and me being new to the game, this is the best I could
do.]]

-Congenital Optimist

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just goes on forever."
               --Caitlin R. Kiernan, 11/27/2001

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Building a better CFJ
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:53:52 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Kudos to Karin for a masterful bit of nitpicking.

I submit the following statement for a new CFJ:

{{
Phrases or lexical constructs in common usage in the ruleset, including
(but not limited to) "the rules", "a proposal", or "the public forum",
are already in usage in a uniquely identifying manner; players may not
choose such phrases as eir player names.
}}
--scoff!

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:30:33 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[Let's start with what was apparently the least controversial element
of the justice proposal.  Hopefully, on it's own it has wings.]]

{{
__No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal__

Replace the entire text of Rule 155 with the following:

{{=20
_No Kickbacks_=20
I. Legislative Kickbacks=20

No player or other game entity may submit a proposal that calls for one
or more effects that discriminate in any way between players based on
their voting actions on that proposal, or any other specific proposal or
proposals identified in the proposal.=20

If a proposal, by adding, changing, or repealing rules, will generate
effects which are based on the way players vote on that proposal, or any
other specific proposal or proposals identified in the proposal, then
those rules generate no effects based on the way players vote on that
particular proposal.=20

II. Judicial Kickbacks=20

No player or other game entity may submit a CFJ that calls for one or
more effects that discriminate in any way between players based on their
judgement or non-judgement of that CFJ, or of any other specific CFJ.

III. Cleanup=20

After the enactment of all proposals passed in the nweek in which this
proposal was adopted, the following sequence of events will occur, in
numerical order:=20

1. If an entity called "Bob the Voting Fish" exists, and the only rule
in the current rule set that refers to "Bob the Voting Fish" is this
one, uncreate the entity called "Bob the Voting Fish".=20

2. Section III. will delete itself from this rule.=20
}}=20
}}

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Bandwidth Limiting That Works?
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:10:45 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__Verbosity Sux!__

{{
Repeal rule 212.

Then, create a new rule as follows:

{{
__All the Proposals You Want, but Keep It Simple__

All players are limited to 6000 non-whitespace characters per ballot.  A
players may submit as many proposals as e wishes, providing the
collective text of the player's proposals on the ballot (including
comments) does not exceed 6000 non-whitespace characters.  This limit
applies regardless of the nweek in which the proposal was submitted for
the ballot.

In the event that a player exceeds the limit, eir proposals shall be
accepted or rejected in the order submitted.  Any proposal that would
cause the player to exceed the limit will be rejected by the
Administrator.

If a player submits a revision of a previously-submitted proposal that
would push the player over the limit, the Administrator will reject that
revision.
}}

[[I welcome input from the Administrator on how this might be
implemented, or if it's impossible.  There are any number of
freeware/shareware/bloatware editing programs that count non-whitespace
text (e.g. MS Word, UltraEdit).  But the most elegant solution might be
to make all proposal submissions via a web page that would automatically
count the characters and automatically notify the player whether it was
accepted or rejected.  Saves everyone having to find their own method of
counting.

Anyway, the rationale should be pretty plain.  Discourage the practice
(exacerbated by the current 3-prop limit) of making big bloated single
proposals like my own 236, while still placing some kind of enforceable
limit on the amount of text we can be subjected to per nweek.  6000
characters should work out to roughly 800 to 1000 words, depending on
your preferred vocabulary.  Seems a reasonable limit to me, and that's
despite the fact that 236 alone was over 8000 non-whitespace
characters.]]
}}

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:45:48 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (monday morning edition)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jeepers. I just archived the Nomic mail on my local system - some 700
messages from when B Nomic began (I filter both lists into the same place)
- and this morning, there's already 25 new messages.

Okay, here goes...

UIN transfers 3 points from emself to gritter. (I can't find my pocket
calculator just now, so I'm not going to update the "Distance" attributes
of the players involved. Deal. At some stage I ought to hack the Roster
page to calculate current Distance on demand...)

Scoff! did correctly nail me on the precise timing of CFJ 234. Mea culpa.
Eir judgment is recorded, e receives back the 10 points e was docked for
recusal, e is removed from the LMJ. (Obviously, Wonko no longer has to
render a separate judgment on this.)

Congenital Optimist's judgment on CFJ 237 is recorded. (Don't worry about
your self-assessment of "wussy judgement" - we all have to start
somewhere, and most of us don't have formal legal training to prepare for
this sort of thing.)

Scoff!'s replacement CFJ for that undecided verdict is 264, assigned to
Glotmorf.

Scoff's judicial-reform-of-the-week, "No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered
Piecemeal) is rectified (insert closing parenthesis at end of title) and
recognized as 265/0.

Scoff's "Verbosity Sux!" proposal is recognized as 266/0. Comments on
implementation thereof forthcoming under separate cover. (And yes, I took
an extra effort to use bigger-than-strictly-necessary words there. ;)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:54:29 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Gender and the Pink Scarf
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Create a rule as follows:

{{
__Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones__

Players have an attribute named Gender.  The Gender attribute is
not necessarily the same as the player's biological gender.

A player's Gender attribute may be one of the following: M, F,
Drone, or Undeclared.  By default, all players are Undeclared.  A
player may select or change eir gender by declaring it in a post
to a public forum.

Gender, once declared, cannot be Undeclared, but it may be
changed.

The effects of Gender are currently limited to the possession of
the Pink Cashmere Scarf of Impeccable Style.
}}

Amend Rule 258/1:__The Pink Cashmere Scarf of Impeccable Style__
by changing the statement

{{
The Style Police must make all posts to Fora, with the exception
of Proposals and Calls For Judgement, in eir best imitation of a
lisp, unless The Pink Scarf is Muffling
}}

to the following:

{{
Unless The Pink Scarf Is Muffling, The Style Police must make all
posts to Fora, with the exception of Proposals and Calls For
Judgement according to the following rules:

1) If the player's declared Gender is M, The Style Police must
make eir posts in the best imitation of a lisp.

2) If the player's declared Gender is F, The Style Police must
make eir posts in eir best imitation of Jane Austen.

[[For example, e may use polite backhanded compliments as
criticism.  Refer to Lady Constance in "Gosford Park" as an
example: "Green is such a *difficult* colour..."]]

3) If the player's declared Gender is Drone, the player's posts
must include *buzz* and *crackle* strings at random throughout,
due to the static electricity effects of the Pink Scarf.

4) If the player's Gender is Undeclared, the player must roll
1d6.  If the result is 1 or 2, the Scarf affects the player as if
eir declared gender were M.  On a 3 or 4, the Scarf affects the
player as if eir declared gender were F.  On a 5 or 6, the Scarf
affects the player as if eir declared gender were Drone.
}}

-Congenital Optimist
[[hey, I'm starting to get the hang of this...]]

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just goes on forever."
               --Caitlin R. Kiernan, 11/27/2001

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:09:18 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Proposal: Gender and the Pink Scarf
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, Karin L. Kross wrote:

> __Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones__

Recognized as 267/0.

As a matter of personal opinion: I'm not a fan of players being able to
change their gender on a whim, if for no other reason than it'll be more
stuff I have to keep track of. :-)

...dave

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:57:37 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ 264 -- verdict
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 264 (Judge: Glotmorf)
CFJ by Scoff!

Phrases or lexical constructs in common usage in the ruleset, including=
 (but not limited to) "the rules", "a proposal", or "the public forum", are=
 already in usage in a uniquely identifying manner; players may not choose=
 such phrases as eir player names. 

I judge this to be TRUE.

Analysis:

Rule 2 explicitly states, "All game entities must have uniquely identifying=
 names."  "Entity" is defined as "something that exists as a particular and=
 discrete unit."  Phrases and lexical constructs are in the rules for the=
 sole purpose of identifying game entities (as opposed to calling=
 everything "that thing"), so by the time a player comes along and tries to=
 select as eir identifying name the name of something else so identified, e=
 is not uniquely identifying emself.

Conversely, though, if, for some reason, a player names emself something=
 like, say, "The Common Good", it would then be against the rules to name=
 some other game entity "the common good".  Rules, therefore, that=
 mentioned "the common good", if there was a player with that name, would=
 either be illegal or a really bad idea.

I have said.

						Glotmorf

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:39:17 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: My Proposals this nweek
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I only get three, so here they are:

<proposal>
<title>The Scoring Gremlin</title>
<body>
Create a new rule entitled "The Scoring Gremlin" with the following GREMLIN
delimited text:
GREMLIN
There exists a Gremlin known as the Scoring Gremlin. Whenever a proposal is
recognized, if the Scoring Gremlin is active, it shall award the player with
the fewest points 1 point. If at any time multiple players are tied for the
lowest score, or the player with the lowest score has at most 10 fewer
points than any other player, the Scoring Gremlin shall go into Hiding. If
the player with the lowest score has at least 30 fewer points than any other
player, the Scoring Gremlin shall become Active.
</body>
<rationale>
If someone falls behind, or joins when everyone else is way ahead, this guy
helps them recover.
</proposal>

<proposal>
<title>The Witch Gremlin</title>
<body>
Create a new rule entitled "The Witch Gremlin" with the following GREMLIN
delimited text:
GREMLIN
There exists a Gremlin known as the Witch Gremlin. If the Witch Gremlin is
Active, any player who has not done so already that nweek may pay (10 + 5d3)
points to make the Witch Gremlin Curse a player. As long as a player is
Cursed, e may not vote. At the end of each Voting Period, all players cease
to be Cursed and, if the Witch Gremlin is Hiding, it becomes Active. If at
any time more than 2 players are Cursed, the Witch Gremlin goes into Hiding.
GREMLIN
</body>
<rationale>
For a moderate fee, you can stop someone from voting. Only 3 people may be
Cursed each period, however, and nobody can Curse more than one other
player. (otherwise I could curse everyone but me and be the only voter)
</rationale>
</proposal>

<proposal>
<title>Taking care of business</title>
<body>
Remove the sentence 'Each Gremlin shall have a Bank Account." from the rule
entitled "Gremlins".
</body>
<rationale>
I can't think of anything else to propose right now, and it's gotta be done
sooner or later.
</rationale>
</proposal> 

-- 
Wonko 

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:40:37 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: Votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:38:46PM -0000, Doig, Gavin wrote:
[some HTML, still in FONT SIZE FREAKING *TWO* - not the relative size
+2, but SIZE 2 - which my HTML viewer is not sane enough to ignore and
renders as a multitude of flyspecks.]

Uncle Psychosis gets a Kick in the Ass.

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:45:07 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Vanishing into the Mists
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Much as I hate to do this, I'm pressed for time right now, so I hereby
pronounce myself On Leave.

I'll bet I'll have over 100 msgs waiting when I get back.
-- 
Wonko 

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:56:51 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: Votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 06:40:37PM -0500, Rob Speer wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 12:38:46PM -0000, Doig, Gavin wrote:
> [some HTML, still in FONT SIZE FREAKING *TWO* - not the relative size
> +2, but SIZE 2 - which my HTML viewer is not sane enough to ignore and
> renders as a multitude of flyspecks.]
> 
> Uncle Psychosis gets a Kick in the Ass.

Well, I didn't quite look at all the effecth of the voting. Tho, I amend
my previouth Action to read as followth:

The player whothe name beginth with 'Uncle', whom I will temporarily
refer to with 'Uncle Pthycothith', getth a Kick in the Ath.

-- 
Rob Thpeer
the Thtyle Poleeth

From: "Chess" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Nomic Business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: Test; ignore
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:19:25 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Aagh, can't keep up with all this spam. I resign from the game. Can someone
remind me of the unsubscribe instructions?

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:38:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (evening edition)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Judgment on CFJ 264 has been rendered.
"The Scoring Gremlin" is 268/0.
"The Witch Gremlin" is 269/0.
"Taking care of business" is 270/0.
Wonko is now On Leave.

I'm not (yet) recognizing the Kick in UIN's Ass, because I really do think
e's trying to do something about the whole HTML mail thing. If it
persists, I can choose to recognize it later on.

Chess' resignation is noted. You'll be missed, friend. Send an email to
[email-masked] with this body:

unsubscribe spoon-business
unsubscribe spoon-discuss
end

and the hurting will stop.

...dave

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:34:09 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: N Heads are Better Than 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _N Heads are Better Than 1_

Create a new rule:

{{ _N Heads are Better Than 1_

A Team Proposal is a proposal submitted by more than one person.  A Team=
 Proposal must be identified as such by the inclusion of the following=
 text:

	"Team Proposal, submitted by <namelist>"

where <namelist> is the list of names of players submitting the proposal.=
  Note that the definition of "team" here does not indicate any=
 relationship between the players outside the context of the Team Proposal.

A Team Proposal is posted to the public forum by a single player.  It is=
 then recognized by the Administrator as a Provisional Proposal.=
  Thereafter, each player in the <namelist> other than the original posting=
 player must post an acknowledgment of their being part of the proposal's=
 team, in order for the Team Proposal to be recognized as a Proposal.

Any player in <namelist> may submit a revision to the Team Proposal, though=
 not to the <namelist> within it.  However, if a player revokes his=
 acknowledgment of the proposal, the proposal is withdrawn with no point=
 loss.

If a Team Proposal passes, it receives the same number of points as a non=
 Team Proposal; each player in <namelist> receives an equal portion of=
 those points, rounded down, or 2 points, whichever is greater.  If a Team=
 Proposal fails, it loses the same number of points as a non Team Proposal;=
 each player in <namelist> loses an equal portion of those points, rounded=
 down, or 1 point, whichever is greater.

If a Team Proposal is still a Provisional Proposal at the time of voting,=
 it is excluded from the ballot, and is considered to have failed; for=
 calculating point losses, <namelist> comprises the original poster, and=
 those who acknowledged the proposal.

Team Proposals are not subject to Bandwidth Rationing.
}}

}}

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Um, hi?
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:17:43 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

*taps microphone* Is this thing on?

*cough* Excuse me.

Let's see... *shuffles script*

      So far, no one has been able to determine if I'm a human or an 
advanced AI, so I pass the Turing test. This is a recording. Tape repeats. 
So far, no one has been able to determine if I'm a human or an advanced AI, 
so I pass the Turing test...

      I hereby give my consent to join this confused and screwy game of B 
Nomic on the grounds that nothing confused and screwy is boring, save 
congressional debates.

      The name I give for the purposes of this little enterprise, minus the 
double quotes and the period, shall be "Baron von Skippy." Or, for short, 
minus the double quotes [[again]] and the period [[also again]], "Prince 
Superior of the RICV, Baron Skippy, Lord of Squirrels, Master of the State 
of Hallucinations, Minister of the ULC of Modesto, Calif., and Generator of 
Oddities and Entities." Please ignore the second and third sentences of this 
paragraph. "Skippy" minus the quotes will do for short.

                                             Cheers,
                                         Baron von Skippy

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:05:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (tuesday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thank you, Moody Blues.

Glotmorf's "N Heads Are Better Than 1" is rectified (I replaced <namelist>
with *namelist* because otherwise it won't display right) and recognized
as 271/0.

The guy with the really long name is having his name violently rectified
to "Baron von Skippy" and he's added to the Roster. Whee!

And per Antonio's request, here's the open CFJs, due dates, and
assignments:

CFJ 227, assigned to Congential Optimist, due by 17 January
CFJ 249, assigned to The Voice, due by 20 January
CFJ 251, assigned to Rob, due by 21 January
CFJ 254, assigned to Bean, due by 21 January

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:27:42 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: TheeFJ 251
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"The rules do not require the entity which casts votes to be a player,
and hence the votes submitted by Glortmorfs imaginary friends (and, for
that matter, Wonkos friends) are valid, and should be taken in to
account when the administrator tallies the votes and determines the
passage or failure of the proposals in the cuurent ballot."

I judge the statement to be FALTH. I mean FALSE.

Analysis:

Rule 30, which reads "Each Player may cast exactly one vote on each
proposal on any given Ballot.", serves to regulate the action of voting.
Since voting is thus regulated by the rules, non-player entities may
only vote as specified by the rules. No rule specifies how a non-player
entity should vote.

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:59:27 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: TheeFJ 251
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 05:27 PM 2002-01-15 -0500, you wrote:
>"The rules do not require the entity which casts votes to be a player,
>and hence the votes submitted by Glortmorfs imaginary friends (and, for
>that matter, Wonkos friends) are valid, and should be taken in to
>account when the administrator tallies the votes and determines the
>passage or failure of the proposals in the cuurent ballot."
>
>I judge the statement to be FALTH. I mean FALSE.
>
>Analysis:
>
>Rule 30, which reads "Each Player may cast exactly one vote on each
>proposal on any given Ballot.", serves to regulate the action of voting.
>Since voting is thus regulated by the rules, non-player entities may
>only vote as specified by the rules. No rule specifies how a non-player
>entity should vote.

As much as I agree with the ruling on this CFJ, I think it sets a bad legal 
precdent, as I think the reasoning for the ruling isn't correct.  I 
therefore humbly submit the following 2 CFJ statements:

CFJ #1:  Non-player entities are allowed to vote.

Analysis:  The ruling on CFJ 251 specifies that "No rule specifies how a 
non-player entity should vote."  Thus there is no rule forbidding the 
voting of non-player entities.  Thus by Rule 18, they may.

CFJ #2:  None of the prospective players: Maggie Peters, Tabatha Sayle, 
Shea, Eliza Carter, Mahmoud Rafik, Bob Harney, Cheryl Smith, Jason Hodges, 
Bob Brown, Clio the Cat, Janice Yeh, Joe MacArthur, Lydia Blankenship, 
Steve Osgood, Pirx, Aknar the Hunter, Fidelio, Eva Vilevska, Asnaggazeth, 
Sir Fancys Bacon, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3, Bob4, Bob5, Bob6, Bob7, Bob8, Bob9, 
Bob10, Bob11, Bob12, Bob13, Bob14, Bob15, Bob16, Bob17, Bob18, Bob19, 
Bob20, Bob21, Bob22, Bob23, Bob24, Bob25, Bob26, Bob27, Bob28, Bob29, and 
Bob30 were capable of transferring eir proxies to Glotmorf or Wonko, and 
therefore, did not vote on the ballot for nweek 4 (3 for a zero-based clock).

Analysis: Under rule 26, a prospective player must make a post to a public 
forum in order to become a player.  None of the above have done this.  Even 
though they may not be in a state to do this, the rules are still very 
clear that each prospective player must make eir own post to the public 
forum.  I don't care if this is discriminatory, until the rules are fixed 
to avoid such discrimination, this is not legal.

Continuing the argument, Rule 208 reads: "A player may designate another 
player to be the holder of eir proxy".  This says it all.  Those named 
above are not players, therefore they cannot have transferred eir proxies 
and voted.  Nor were they game entities identified by the rules at the time 
of voting, in which case there *might* have been a loophole.

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:49:21 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Ruling on CFJ 254
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On the matter of the statement:

"Any points awarded as a result of the passage of Proposal 229 and/or a 
rule resulting from its passage must be awarded to Bob the Voting Fish as 
indicated by Rule 155, assuming Rule 155 was in effect at the time of the 
passage of Proposal 229. If Proposal 229 failed to pass, this CFJ is 
rescinded."

Bean renders his judgement:

This statement is judged FALSE.

Analysis: This is a really tough one.  Try to follow this train of 
logic:  Rule 155 was in effect at the time of Proposal 229's passage, and 
so governs the actions taken by the proposal.  However, the only action 
explicitly named in this proposal is the creation of a rule.  Now, Rule 155 
applies to this new rule if and only if immediate actions taken by this 
rule are considered to be "included in the actions of the proposal." (as 
paraphrased from Rule 155)

So, the statement boils down to: "The immediate effects of a rule are 
included in the actions of the proposal that created it."  This is not 
defined anywhere in the rules.  However, it seems slightly absurd and bad 
legal precedent to judge this "condensed" statement as TRUE [[ If I were to 
do that, changes to the way votes are counted could become difficult, if 
not impossible ]].  Not to mention, there is nothing in the rules which 
states that a rule cannot determine who voted for the proposal which 
created it, and so by Rule 18, it is allowed.

And so, unfortunately against the spirit of Rule 155, I must rule FALSE.

[[ I am making this judgement against my own personal bias... my initial 
instinct was to rule TRUE, but on closer inspection, that would not have 
been a fair ruling.  Hey, I'm likely going to lose 17 points on this as well. ]]

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:05:57 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ 249 JUDGEMENT
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the case of CFJ 249 (Glotmorf):

STATEMENT:
"Proposals 229, 230, 231 and 240 are not valid proposals because they do not use the Standard Delmiters listed in rule 217.  As evidence of this statement, I cite the analysis of CFJ 248.

JUDGEMENT: I judge this statement to be FALSE.

ANALYSIS: Plain and simple (this was pointed out in an email regarding the previous CFJ, thanks whoever that was...).  Rule 217 merely defines the standard delimeters; nowhere does it require that they are used.

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:17:33 EST
From: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: CFJ recindment
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal: Once and for all...

{{
Amend rule 126/2 by adding the following && delimited text:

&&
A CFJ may, at any point between its submittance and its judgement, be "recinded" by the plaintiff by posting eir intention to do so in a public forum.  If this occurs, the CFJ no longer requires judgement and shall not affect the state of the game in any other fashion.
&&

Also, replace:
"Calls for Judgement are given a serial number as if they were a revisable object.  A CFJ cannot be modified once submitted."
With:
"Calls for Judgement are given a serial number as if they were a revisable object.  A CFJ cannot be modified once submitted, with the exception of its being recinded by the plaintiff."

}}

-0- Thus spake The Voice from on high. -0-

Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:20:43 -0500
From: Josh Utterback <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Fenrir forfeits
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Unfortuantly, I can't keep up with the game right now.  So I have to 
announce that I am forfeiting the game. ;(

Fenrir

From: Glenn Overby II <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:11:01 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Fwd: spoon-discuss: Forfeiture
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Whoops.  Sent this to the wrong list.  The proprieties require that I forward my 
forfeiture here.

Octagon

------- Start of forwarded message -------
From: Glenn Overby II <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Fwd: spoon-discuss: Forfeiture
Date: 1/14/2002 2:53:01 AM

Regrettably, perhaps, I do not have time for this...as evidenced by missing the 
vote, and putting forward just one proposal all game.

Octagon forfeits B Nomic.

Glenn E. Overby II
Clinton Twp, MI

=====

Icehouse Games Pages (take the IcePoll!)
http://home.earthlink.net/~guardcaptain/IceGames.html

-------- End of forwarded message --------

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:18:25 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Judgement CFJ 227
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 227
  Rule 1 has the following @@@ delimited text:
  @@@
  The name of this game shall be 'B Nomic.'

  The player who, as of the 1st of January 2002, was known as
  "uniquely identifying names", and the player who was selected
  to judge the first Call For Judgement submitted by uniquely
  identifying names in this game, may alter the rules of this
  and any other aspect of the game they choose, by mutually
  agreeing, in a public forum, to such an alteration.
[...]

Judgement: FALSE

Analysis:
For brevity's sake, I refer you to Scoff!'s judgement on CFJ 234,
since I believe his analysis is applicable here as well.

-Congenital Optimist

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just goes on forever."
               --Caitlin R. Kiernan, 11/27/2001

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:44:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Revision to 267/0
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

To clean up a few items pointed out to me by others, I submit the
following revised version of Proposal 267/0, "Girls Will Be Boys
and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones"

Create a rule as follows:

{{
__Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones__

Players have an attribute named Gender. The Gender attribute is
not necessarily the same as the player's biological gender.

A player's Gender attribute may be one of the following: M, F,
Drone, or Undeclared. By default, all players are Undeclared. A
player may select or change eir gender by declaring it in a post
to a public forum.

Gender, once declared, cannot be Undeclared, but it may be
changed. When a player announces a change of Gender, the change
does not take effect until the beginning of the following nweek.

[[This is to keep the admin from having to update the roster
multiple times in an nweek.]]

The act of announcing changes of gender more than twice in an
nday and/or more than twice in an nweek shall be added to the
LOGAS.  A player changing eir Gender from Undeclared to any
declared state counts as a change of gender for this purpose.

[[For example, if Player A, whose Gender is hitherto
Undeclared, announces on Tuesday morning that e is setting eir
gender to M, on Wednesday to F, and on Thursday to Drone, e is as
deserving of a Kick in the Ass as if e had performed all those
actions on the same day.]]
}}

Amend Rule 258/1:__The Pink Cashmere Scarf of Impeccable Style__
by changing the statement

{{
The Style Police must make all posts to Fora, with the exception
of Proposals and Calls For Judgement, in eir best imitation of a
lisp, unless The Pink Scarf is Muffling
}}

to the following:

{{
Unless The Pink Scarf Is Muffling, The Style Police must make all
posts to Fora, with the exception of Proposals and Calls For
Judgement according to the following rules:

1) If the player's declared Gender is M, The Style Police must
make eir posts in the best imitation of a lisp.

2) If the player's declared Gender is F, The Style Police must
make eir posts in eir best imitation of Jane Austen.

[[For example, e may use polite backhanded compliments as
criticism. Refer to Lady Constance in "Gosford Park" as an
example: "Green is such a *difficult* colour..."]]

3) If the player's declared Gender is Drone, the player's posts
must include *buzz* and *crackle* strings at random throughout,
due to the static electricity effects of the Pink Scarf.

4) If the player's Gender is Undeclared, select the effects as
follows.

- If the number of the nweek and nday on which the player
  received the Pink Scarf are both odd, the Scarf affects the
  player as if eir declared gender were M.
- If the number of the nweek and nday are both even, the
  Scarf affects the player as if eir declared gender were F.
- If the number of nweek and nday are mixed, the Scarf
  affects the player as if eir declared gender were Drone.

The effects do not change by the day [[because that would be
confusing and hell to keep track of]]; whatever effect was
applicable on the nday that the player received the Scarf remains
in effect until the Scarf changes ownership or until the player
declares a Gender.

[[This change avoids the issue of dice-rolling and keeping people
honest, and hopefully makes things easier for the admin. :)]]
}}

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"Life is short, but tacky just goes on forever."
               --Caitlin R. Kiernan, 11/27/2001

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:22:07 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Moderation among the justice reform
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay everyone, I'm getting the feeling that there are two distinct camps 
among the justice reformers.  As I see it, those are:

a) Players may do whatever they want, things that have happened have 
happened and cannot be reversed.
b) Players may attempt to do whatever they want, but an action which is 
against the rules is not allowed to occur.

So, since this is a game of voting, I'm going to do the democratic thing 
and see which of both camps is preferred.  Since we have no form of 
referendum... I'm going to do the next best thing by making two proposals, 
one for each side of the debate.  I'm formulating these to the best of my 
ability, and if there are problems with the one you'd rather support, let 
me know and I'll do what I can to fix it.

(These are very much first versions... long way to go... hope to make 1+ 
revisions daily.... comment!  Comment lots!  Be criticizing!  But please be 
constructive in your criticism!)

====================================================================================================
Proposal #1:
{{
__You Break the Law, You Pay the Price__

Revise Rule 10 to read:

{{
__Follow The Rules__

All game entities, except Players, must always abide by all the Rules then 
in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect.  Players may make 
actions which are against the rules, however these actions are known as 
Illegal.  This Rule takes precedence over all other Rules.

}}

[[ This must be done to get over the "mass-hallucination" effect. ]]

Revise Rule 126 to read:

{{
__Calls For Judgement__

If a player performs an Illegal action, or if there is any question or 
ambiguity regarding the rules or the state of the game, any player may 
submit a Call For Judgement (CFJ) by posting his intention to an public 
forum together with a Statement to be judged and optionally an analyisis. 
That Player shall be known as the Plaintiff with regard to the CFJ.

While submitting CFJ the Plaintiff may also specify a player as Defendant 
for that CFJ.  If the CFJ concerns an Illegal action, the Plaintiff must 
specify a Defendant, and the Defendant must be the player who performed the 
Illegal action.

Calls for Judgement are given a serial number as if they were a revisable 
object. A CFJ cannot be modified once submitted.

If at any time a player deems an Administrative action invalid, believes an 
Administrative action has altered the ruleset or gamestate in a manner 
inconsistent with the rules, or suspects the Administrator of unfairness, 
nepotism, or cheating in a given action, eir remedy is to submit a Call For 
Judgement.

}}

Revise Rule 127 to read:
{{
__Judges__

When a Call for Judgement has been made, the Administrator shall randomly 
select one player among the eligible players to be the judge. Eligble 
players for the purpose of this rule are all players but the defendant, the 
plaintiff and players in the List of Misbehaving Judges. If that leaves no 
players eligible to be the judge, all players are eligible.

If the Administrator has been named as the Defendant in a CFJ, e may not 
select a judge.  Instead, that duty falls to the player with the highest Score.
}}

[[ The only reason I'm doing this is to move the paragraph about Judge 
selection from Rule 126 to the judge selection rule... it's spring cleaning. ]]

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Judgement__

A Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the 
following responses to the Call for Judgment to which e was assigned, 
accompanied by analysis:

1. Refused: A Judge may refuse to hear the Request if it lacks a clear 
Statement or is not germain to the game.
2. True: The Statement is true.
3. False: The Statement is false.
4. Undecided: It cannot be determined at the time of the Judgment whether 
the Statement is true or false.
[[completly ripped off from A Nomic]]

This response constitutes the judge's Judgment on that CFJ and has the same 
serial number of the CFJ.

With a Judgement a judge may issue Judicial Orders.  Only Judicial Orders 
explicitly permitted by the rules may be issued.  The Administrator must 
carry out all Judicial Orders in a judgement.

If the CFJ concerns a matter of correctness of the rules or game state, a 
Judge may issue a minimum number of Judicial Orders required to bring the 
rules or game state to their correct representation. [[If a player believes 
a judge oversteps eir bounds, well, it was an Illegal action.]]

If the CFJ concerns an Illegal action, the judge may issue a Judicial Order 
deducting a number of points from eir score no greater than 100. [[This is 
vague unpurpose... I'm not going to write an entire criminal code.]]

Should it happen that a Judge has not issued a Judgement within seven days 
of eir selection, that Judge shall be recused and a new player shall be 
selected in the ways prescribed by the rules as Judge for the CFJ. When a 
Judge is recused in this manner, e shall lose 10 points and, if a rule 
entitled "Misbehaving Judges" exists, eir name shall be added to the List 
of Misbehaving Judges.
}}

Revise the first paragraph of Rule 129 to read:
"No Calls for Judgement shall be made regarding any Illegal actions that 
have happened more than one nweek ago.  Such actions shall always be 
treated as if they had been legal."

Revise Rule 1 to read:
{{
__The Game__

The name of this game shall be 'B Nomic.'

If the proposal which most recently modified this rule passed, transfer one 
third (rounded up) of the points gained by its proponent for its passage to 
Scoff!. Then delete this paragraph from the rules.
}}

[[ Scoff! initally took on the role of Judicial Reformer... I'm just trying 
to give it my own twist ]]

}}

====================================================================================================

There.  That proposal makes a system very close to the Judicial systems in 
most major nations.  Note there is no appealate court... I'm keeping this 
small.

Now, I'm going to make a proposal for justice reform that fits more tightly 
within our current Nomic game (i.e., doesn't modify Rule 10).  I've tried 
to steer clear of any terminology that involves "Judge" to differentiate 
this from any current civil justice system.  Don't know if that's better or 
worse... opinions?

====================================================================================================
Proposal #2:
{{
__Thou Shalt Never Go Against The Rules!__

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Call For Inquiry__

If a player believes that any action taken by any entity was against the 
rules, or that the recorded or assumed game state (including but not 
limited to revisable objects, entities including eir attributes, and 
players and eir attributes) is not in accordance with the actual game state 
as prescribed by the rules, e may issue a Call For Inquiry (CFI, or for 
historical [[and Roman]] reference, CFJ).

A CFI may be issued by any player by posting eir intention to a public 
forum together with a Statement in question and optionally an analyisis. 
That Player shall be known as the Plaintiff with regard to the CFI. While 
submitting CFI the Inquirer may also specify a player or the Administrator 
as Defendant for that CFI.

CFIs are given a serial number as if they were a revisable object. A CFI 
cannot be modified once submitted.

}}

Revise Rule 127 to read:
{{
__Aribters__

When a Call for Inquiry has been made, the Administrator shall randomly 
select one player among the eligible players to be the Arbiter.  Eligble 
players for the purpose of this rule are all players excepting the 
Defendant, the Plaintiff and players in the List of Misbehaving Judges. If 
that leaves no players eligible to be the Arbiter, then out of the players 
on the List of Misbehaving Judges, the player who was placed on the List of 
Misbehaving Judges first shall be the Arbiter.

In the event of a CFI naming the Administrator as defendant, the duty of 
randomly selecting an Arbiter shall fall to the player with the highest 
Score. That player will also be ineligible to be an Arbiter for the CFI.
}}

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Inquiry Resolution__

An Arbiter shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the 
following responses to the Call for Inquiry to which e was assigned, 
accompanied by an Interpretation:

1. Refused: An Arbiter may refuse to hear the Request if it lacks a clear 
Statement or is not germain to the game.
2. True: The Statement is true.
3. False: The Statement is false.
4. Undecided: It cannot be determined at the time of the Resolution whether 
the Statement is true or false.
[[completly ripped off from A Nomic]]

This response constitutes the Arbiter's Resolution on that CFI and has the 
same serial number of the CFI.

The Interpretation of the Resolution is the reasoning that the Arbiter used 
to arrive at the Resolution, and must be a direct interpretation of the 
rules.  An Arbiter may not make a Resolution which is contradictory to one 
or more rules. [[This either results in another Call For Inquiry, or we 
need an appealate court]]

If the Resolution is "True", and the recorded game state is not in 
accordance with the Statement, then the Adminstrator must correct the 
recorded game state so that it reflects the Statement.  An Arbiter may 
recommend a possible way to do this as part of eir Resolution.

Should it happen that an Arbiter has not issued a Resolution within seven 
days of eir selection, that Arbiter shall be recused and a new player shall 
be selected in the ways prescribed by the rules as Arbiter for the CFI. 
When an Arbiter is recused in this manner, e shall lose 10 points and, if a 
rule entitled "Misbehaving Judges" exists, eir name shall be added to the 
List of Misbehaving Judges.
}}

Revise Rule 1 to read:
{{
__The Game__

The name of this game shall be 'B Nomic.'

If the proposal which most recently modified this rule passed, transfer one 
third (rounded up) of the points gained by its proponent for its passage to 
Scoff!. Then delete this paragraph from the rules.
}}

[[ Scoff! initally took on the role of Judicial Reformer... I'm just trying 
to give it my own twist ]]

}}

There is more cleaning up to do with the second proposal if the temrinology 
is acceptable.  Otherwise I'll just revert it to "Judge"-whatever.

====================================================================================================

Now, I'm not trying to make one proposal better than the other.  So if you 
see problems with either of these (other than fundamental philosophical 
ones) let me know, and I'll fit it in.  My ultimate hope is that these 
proposals merge into one through debate that all can love!

One revision I will make to these proposals (depending on how they are 
numbered) will be to make sure only ONE of them passes, the one with the 
greatest number of YES votes.

I'm going to make my argument for the second proposal on spoon-discuss in 
the morning.  Scoff!, I hope I'm not stepping too far into your 
jurisdiction.  You'll note I left the appeals court open on both of them 
for you :)

Well, that's enough proposalling for tonight.... time to go to -

.......... zzzzz ...............

Bean

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:20:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Thursday morning, technically)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Or maybe it's Wednesday night. Depends on your time zone.

Anyway.

Rob has ruled on CFJ 251, which clears up the last of the questions
regarding the previous ballot. Yay.

Thus: Proposal 202/0 failed (3-10), 221/2 failed (5-8), and 226/0 passed
(7-6). Glotmorf loses 4, loses 5, and scores 9 points, respectively. (I
swear I didn't make that up - the fact that I don't have to change eir
score is just a keen coincidence.) 226/0 has no effect, since it
explicitly depended upon the passage of another proposal (which didn't
pass).

Bean submitted two CFJs - they are 272 and 273, assigned to Baron von
Skippy and Uncle Psychosis, respectively, in spite of the fact that at
least the latter seems to have been rendered moot.

Bean has ruled on CFJ 254. As an (indirect?) result of this, points will
be awarded based on the voting for Proposal 229/0, and its
self-modification clause kicks in.
Created 259/1.
Antonio, Congenital Optimist, Fenrir, gritter, Iain, Scoff!, Uncle
Psychosis, and The Voice score 23 points; Bean, Glotmorf, Joerg, Rob, and
Wonko lose 17 points.

The Voice has ruled on CFJ 249.

The Voice's "Once and for all..." is 274/0.

Fenrir and Octagon have forfeited. They're dropping like flies...

Scoff! pointed out that the historical proposal pages don't list
proposals' authors. I'll try to fix that one soonish - should only be a
five minute fix or so, but these things tend to spiral away from me. :)

Congenital Optimist has ruled on CFJ 227.

Congenital Optimist's revision of "Boys will be Girls..." is 267/1.

The Administrator sighs as more massive judicial reforms (and the
requisite lots of typing) seem imminent...

(I'd also like to point out that if players want to transfer points, they
can simply DO SO instead of going through bizarre gyrations involving
modifying Rule 1. You could also simply specify it as an action in your
proposal instead, if you want some formal record of your action. In fact,
I'd rather prefer that, because that way I don't have to modify rules
multiple times, thus staving off the inevitable brain embolism.)

"You Break the Law, You Pay the Price" is 275/0.

"Thou Shalt Never Go Against The Rules!" is 276/0.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Sushi
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:28:05 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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I give Sushi to
of 
Wonko.

uin.

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From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:44:23 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
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<proosal>
<title>The dust you seldom see.</title>
<body>
Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following
MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement
about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered to
reflect that statement, unless in the intervening time any player objects to
the statement in a Public Forum, in which case the usual methods for
determining the current rules and game state shall apply.
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
[[Kinder, gentler, more seductive.]]
</body>
</proosal>

This should mean that player actions don't automatically get made legal (for
example, if I hide a statement saying I'm awarded a win inside a long
message and no one notices it) unless the Admin acks them in his daily
recogniser mail. It also ups the time to 2 NWeeks, which gives us more time
to notice problems. The "usual methods" part is deliberately vague to allow
us to use CFJs, or just to arrive at a consensus. It only takes one player
to stop the auto-legalisation, but one player can't just block things,
because the standard methods will apply, and it should prevent the Admin
from being able to abuse this, because we'd all need to let him for it to
work.

Although if (when) we do end up breaking the proosal mechanism, this would
allow the admin to change things to fix it, by our unanimous consent.

uin.

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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:23:57 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Revisions to my proposals
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thanks to the suggestions from Uncle Psychosis.  Proposal 275 has gotten a 
lot of flack, but very little constructive criticism.  I think that's 
what's necessary to make a judicial system like the one in the real world, 
and I know in its current state it's flawed... I'd like to fix it but I 
don't quite know how, and so again I solicit suggestions.

Anyways, here come the revisions:

I revise Proposal 275 in the following manner:

1) Add the following text to the beginning of the proposal:
"Determine if proposal 276 will pass or fail.  If it will pass and received 
the same or more affirmative votes than proposal 276, this proposal does 
nothing.

Otherwise, the following actions are taken:"

2) Remove the part about revising Rule 1.

3) Add the following text to the end of the proposal:
"After points have been awarded to Bean for the passage of this proposal, 
transfer one third (rounded up) of the aforementioned points to Scoff!."

Revise proposal 276 to read:

{{
__We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall__

If proposal 275 passed and received more affirmative votes than this 
proposal, this proposal does nothing.

Otherwise, the following actions are taken:

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Call For Inquiry__

If a player has any question or complaint regarding the rules or their 
application, e may issue a Call For Inquiry (CFI, or for historical [[and 
Roman]] reference, CFJ).

A CFI may be issued by any player by posting eir intention to a public 
forum together with a Statement in question and optionally an analyisis. 
That Player shall be known as the Plaintiff with regard to the CFI. While 
submitting CFI the Plaintiff may also specify a player or the Administrator 
as Defendant for that CFI.

CFIs are given a serial number as if they were a revisable object. A CFI 
cannot be modified once submitted.
}}

Revise Rule 127 to read:
{{
__Judges__

When a Call for Inquiry has been made, the Administrator shall randomly 
select one player among the eligible players to be the Judge. Eligble 
players for the purpose of this rule are all players excepting the 
Defendant, the Plaintiff and players in the List of Misbehaving Judges. If 
that leaves no players eligible to be the Judge, then out of the players on 
the List of Misbehaving Judges, the player who was placed on the List of 
Misbehaving Judges first shall be the Judge.

In the event of a CFI naming the Administrator as defendant, the duty of 
randomly selecting an Judge shall fall to the player with the highest 
Score. That player will also be ineligible to be a Judge for the CFI.
}}

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Judgement__

A Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the 
following responses to the Call for Inquiry to which e was assigned, 
accompanied by an Analysis:

1. Refused: A Judge may refuse to hear the CFI if it lacks a clear 
Statement or is not germain to the game.
2. True: The Statement is true.
3. False: The Statement is false.
4. Undecided: It could not be determined at the time the CFI was made 
whether the Statement is true or false.
[[not quite completly ripped off from A Nomic]]

This response constitutes the Judge's Judgement on that CFI and has the 
same serial number of the CFI.

The Analysis of the Judgement is the reasoning that the Judge used to 
arrive at the Judgement, and must be a direct interpretation of the rules. 
A Judge may not make a Judgement which is contradictory to one or more 
rules. [[This either results in another Call For Inquiry, or we need an 
appealate court]]

Should it happen that a Judge has not issued a Resolution within seven days 
of eir selection, that Judge shall be recused and a new player shall be 
selected in the ways prescribed by the rules as Judge for the CFI. When a 
Judge is recused in this manner, e shall lose 10 points and, if a rule 
entitled "Misbehaving Judges" exists, eir name shall be added to the List 
of Misbehaving Judges.
}}

After points have been awarded to Bean for the passage of this proposal, 
transfer one third (rounded up) of the aforementioned points to Scoff!.  [[ 
Scoff! initally took on the role of Judicial Reformer... I'm just trying to 
give it my own twist ]]

Transfer 2 points from Bean to Uncle Psychosis. [[ A tip of the hat for the 
title :) ]]

}}

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Bean and the LON
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:09:13 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
Proposal: _Ehh... What the hell..._

Create a new rule entitled _List of Nobility_, with the following $*#(! 
delimited text:

$*#(!
There exits a game entity known as the List O' Nobility, or LON for short.  
The LON is a list of all players' Nobility.  The nature of the LON itself 
shall be decided by the Administrator.
$*#(!

Also, Bean recieves the title, "Nitpicking King of Morons".
[[There you go, old chap.]]

Also, add "claiming you have a title that is not recognized on the LON" to 
the LOGAS.
}}

Just a neat little way to give Bean his well deserved title and organize the 
whole title thing better, if anything ever comes with having a title.

-0-Thus Spake The Voice-0-

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : 
http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ273 judgement
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:52:59 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
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Response:
True.

Analysis:
What Bean said.
uin.

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From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:56:19 -0000
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<proosal>
<title>Walk unafraid.</title>
<body>
Repeal rule 10.
</body>
<proosal>

uin.

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From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Proosal
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:05:32 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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> Er.  Let me get this straight.
>
> It is Nweek X.  The Administrator reads off the scores following the
previous
> voting session.
>
> At the beginning of Nweek X+2, the game state is altered to the
> game state stated by the Administrator in Nweek X, thereby rendering
> everyone's score to be that which the Administrator said it was two Nweeks
> ago, as opposed to whatever it should be as a result of the voting session
> from Nweek X+1.
> 
You think?

I amend my proosal titled "The dust you seldom see." by replacing the
current body with the following @@@-delimited text:
@@@
Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following
MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement
about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered what
they would be had that statement been true at the time it was made, unless
in the intervening time any player objects to the statement in a Public
Forum, in which case the usual methods for determining the current rules and
game state shall apply.

This rule takes precedence over all other rules.
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
[[Kinder, gentler, more seductive.]]
@@@

I'm not sure the precedence is strictly necessary, but it will stop any
potential problems with rule 204, and suchlike.

uin.

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From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:10:53 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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<statement>
Uncle Psychosis's did not succeed in giving gritter 3 points.
</statement>
<analysis>
Rule 152 states "Changes to the state of the game may only be made via a
Proposal or via an Action which is permitted by the Rules.". Rule 213 states
"The player who has the Cursed Sushi of Babel may not post any message to a
public Forum (such as the "spoon-business" list) without first taking these
steps:", followed by a number of steps. I did not follow these steps in the
message by which I attempted to transfer those points, and therefore rule
152 prevented them from being transferred.
</analysis>

uin.

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From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:15:11 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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<proosal>
<title>You can't even see.</title>
<body>
Amend rule 212, if it exists, by replacing "three" with "5".
[[If 266 fails, at least we'll have an alternative.]]
</body>
</proosal>

uin.
I repeal rule 10!

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From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Revision: Proposal 274
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:10:54 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I am hereby resubmitting my proposal (274), because I realized a grievous 
error I had committed...

{{
Proposal: _Once and for all..._

Amend rule 126/2 by adding the following && delimited text:

&&
A CFJ may, at any point between its submittance and its judgement, be 
"rescinded" by the plaintiff by posting eir intention to do so in a public 
forum. If this occurs, the CFJ no longer requires judgement and shall not 
affect the state of the game in any other fashion.  If the plaintiff recinds 
their CFJ, e may not then resubmit the same CFJ in another form.  If a 
player believes that this has occurred, e may submit a CFJ on those grounds.
&&

Also, replace:
"Calls for Judgement are given a serial number as if they were a revisable 
object. A CFJ cannot be modified once submitted."
With:
"Calls for Judgement are given a serial number as if they were a revisable 
object. A CFJ cannot be modified once submitted, with the exception of its 
being rescinded by the plaintiff."
}}

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From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: Generous Gremlins!
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:21:21 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
Proposal: _Generous Gremlins!_

Create a new rule entitled _Bandwidth Gremlin_ with the following -0- 
delimited text:

-0-
There exists a gremlin known as the Bandwidth Gremlin.  At the beginning of 
each nweek, if the Bandwidth Gremlin is Active, the Bandwidth Gremlin gives 
what is known as the "Token of Proposals" to the player who has the lowest 
score.  The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more 
proposal than is allowed under the current ruleset.  One second after eir 
extra proposal is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is 
automatically returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin.  If, at the beginning of an 
nweek, two players are tied for the lowest score, the player to recieve the 
Token of Proposals is determined randomly.  A player may not recieve the 
Token of Proposals if eir charm is equal to zero, or if their activity is 
less than zero.
-0-
}}

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From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Oh, by the way
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 18:23:01 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The proposal _Generous Gremlins!_ was authored by me, as well as the 
revision to _Once and for all..._.  I realized that I didn't put my 
signature at the end.

-0-Thus Spake The Voice-0-

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From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Ruling: CFJ272
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:02:16 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 272 (Judge: Baron von Skippy)
CFJ by Bean

Non-player entities are allowed to vote.

Analysis: The ruling on CFJ 251 specifies that "No rule specifies how a
non-player entity should vote." Thus there is no rule forbidding the voting 
of non-player entities. Thus by Rule 18, they may.

The Baron says: False.

The Baron's twisted reasoning: The fact is, this allows for tremendous 
inflation of the game. If anyone can create as many imaginary friends as 
they can create names for, anyone can give emselves so many votes per 
proposal as it is possible for them to submit. Players who kept emselves to 
NOT exploiting this would become powerless in the rush. Now, what if, for 
example, I introduce my friends from the planet Binaria: 0, 1, 01, 10, 11, 
100, 101, 110, 111, 1000, 1001, 1010, 1011, 1100, 1101, 1110, 1111, and 
10000? Did I mention that since "Names of game entities may contain 
alphanumeric, punctuation, and whitespace characters only. Names must be at 
least one but no more than 255 characters in length. All game entities must 
have uniquely identifying names," I can have 5.7896 x 10^76 friends using 
this system alone! Now, of course I can't type that many, but the sky's the 
limit, people. I will not let this game go to em what types names the 
fastest. I declare non-player entities to be denied suffrage. [[That means 
they don't get to vote, in case you didn't know. Learn a new thing every 
day. It makes life more fun.]] Wonko's Bobs and Glotmorf's cadre are 
nonvoting entities, if that.

[[Remember: You can't spell "analysis" without "anal" unless you spell it 
wrong.]]

                                        -Baron von Skippy-

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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:35:37 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Donkey flag in inside
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Imprecation, I Babel hour four days am visible the fact that it wastes. this
for a reason, to go out, for a for a long time I suspect see the fact that
it will select the fact that it maintains the property of this fish the
neccessary which is. Anyone boat song not minding I am positive. The
Incidentally, who for the effect which the sushi which is cursed and the
pink color scarf is combined kyu chik to change in accounts, #3076#2571 }q{#
wool }q{# Oh the R u. One the first which it holds, that time the babel and
or vice- versa lisp? In Ohio and the side of method, I put %Off the
}leave{%.
-- 
Wonko 
Recruit today night it feels

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:21:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Friday evening)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Sushi is transferred to Wonko. It's tasty, or so I'm told. Try the
wasabi.

"The dust you seldom see." is 277/0

Email-able dice: Hm. Shouldn't be too terribly hard to do. Is this really
something people want to see? (Is it something we really need? The main
benefit thus far is that it makes life slightly easier for the case where
someone submits a CFJ where I'm the named defendant, but I hope this won't
happen too often. :)

The latest batches of judicial revisions are revised (275/1 and 276/1
respectively). And thanks for not making me re-type the whole darn
proosal. :)

"Ehh... what the hell..." is 278/0.

Uncle Psychosis has ruled on CFJ 273, and scores Coolness Points (TM) for
brevity.

Eir "Walk unafraid." proosal is 279/0 and scores still more Coolness
Points (TM) for brevity.

"The dust you seldom see." is revised (277/1).

Uncle Psychosis' "3 points" CFJ is 280, assigned to Joerg.

Uncle Psychosis' "You can't even see." is 281/0.

In response to UIN's question, "how attached are you to your current
rule-numbering system?" I'm not terribly attached per se, but I'm quite
frankly not gonna spend a few hours with the database renumbering them.
Please don't make me dust off the administrative veto... If I can get the
rule categories down to a reasonable number, categorizing 'em and putting
up per-category pages shouldn't be too terribly troublesome. (Adding that
to the database at this point would be unpleasant at best... but it'd be a
lot less bad than retrofitting the whole darn system.)

(Aside: I do now realize the folly of having a "one serial numbers set for
everything" system, where CFJs, rules, and proosals get mixed together,
but we're kinda stuck with it.)

"Once and for all..." is revised (274/1).

"Generous Gremlins" is 282/0.

Baron von Skippy has ruled on CFJ 272, and rather cleverly at that.
(Wasn't there a planet Binaria in Star Trek: TNG?)

I have no idea what the hell Wonko is saying.
(Hm. Since Wonko is On Leave, I don't think e can legally transfer the
Sushi to anyone else until e returns. Could be wacky.)

Remember, proposals are still being accepted (from those of you that
haven't hit your bandwidth limits, at least) until the end of 20 January,
Nomic Standard Time (that's Sunday afternoon at 4 PM Pacific, 7 PM
Eastern, you know the drill about time zone conversions).

...dave

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: revisions
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:02:30 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

well, apparently I can't type or think, so here's another revision.

{{
Amend proposal 282 by adding the following -00- delimited text:

-00-
If the same player recieves the Token of Proposals two nweeks in a row, or 
if the player who recieves the Token of Proposals is selected randomly, the 
Bandwidth Gremlin shall go into Hiding.  If at any point the Bandwidth 
Gremlin has been in Hiding for two nweeks, e shall become Active.
-00-
}}

-0-Thus Spake The Voice-0-

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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:43:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Re: spoon-discuss: hmm...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Tyler Crosby wrote:

> I think, but I'm not sure, that Wonko tried to declare himself "off
> leave"...

I re-read Wonko's recent messages, several times, and eventually came to
the same conclusion.

Wonko is back from Leave. (If e disagrees, e can CFJ it - or at least try
to do so.)

...dave

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:45:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: revisions
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Tyler Crosby wrote:

> Amend proposal 282 by adding the following -00- delimited text:

Done. 282/1.

...dave

Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:39:53 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Revision to Proposal 250/0
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Please modify Proposal 250 to reflect the following ARMYSONG delimited text:

ARMYSONG

Create a new rule with the following text:

{{
_The Immunity Idol_

There shall exist an object called the Immunity Idol.

The Player who holds the Immunity Idol is immune to any effect generated by 
Gremlins. No rule may create a Gremlin that can circumvent the Immunity 
Idol's protection.

At the beginning of an nweek, the Immunity Idol is awarded to the Player 
who scored the most points in the previous nweek. [[For example, at 
00:00:00 on nday 0 of nweek 7, the Immunity Idol would be awarded to the 
player who scored the most points in nweek 6. This example assumes a 
zero-based Clock.]]

In the event a group of Players are tied for scoring the most points in the 
previous nweek, the Immunity Idol is awarded to the Player in that group 
who has the most total points. In the event a group of Players are tied for 
scoring the most points in the previous nweek *and* there are two or more 
Players in that group that are also tied for the most total points in that 
group, then the Immunity Idol shall Speak, saying "Hell with that," and is 
awarded to the Player who joined the game most recently.

The Immunity Idol may not be transferred to another Player except by means 
explicitly prescribed by the rules.
}}
ARMYSONG

This is to bring the text of this proposal in line with the format of the 
text of other proposals. C.f. the thread on spoon-discuss for more 
explanation. I also corrected the spelling of "explicitly" in the last 
paragraph.

--gritter

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:35:01 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Grammar Nitpick G1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _Grammar Nitpick G1_

Replace "it's" with "its" in rule 214.

[[Third person neuter possessive doesn't have an apostrophe in it.  Don't=
 know why that gets on my nerves so...]]

}}

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:59:32 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: New rule: Keywords
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost_

Create a new rule:

{{ _Keywords_

Rules may have one or more keywords assigned to (or removed from) them via=
 proposals.

A second rules listing will be added to the game state, grouping rules=
 under keywords, then listing them in order by rule number.  As a rule may=
 have more than one keyword, a rule may appear more than once in the=
 listing.  Un-keyworded rules will be listed as "Uncategorized".

}}

[[ Call it a compromise between reordering the rules and keeping them in=
 order by precedence.  Plus, if done right, it should be a programming=
 no-brainer. ]]

}}

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 01:17:26 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Corrections, and a mod, to p271
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Looks like some instances of <namelist> got lost in the rule text.  Let's=
 just fix that...

4th paragraph: Replace "Thereafter, each player in the other than the=
 original" with "Thereafter, each player in the *namelist* other than the=
 original".

5th paragraph: Replace "Any player in may submit" with "Any player in=
 *namelist* may submit".

5th paragraph: Replace "though not to the within it" with "though not to=
 the *namelist* within it".

6th paragraph: Replace "each player in receives" with "each player in=
 *namelist* receives".

6th paragraph: Replace "each player in loses" with "each player in=
 *namelist* loses".

And now for the modifications:

Replace the 7th paragraph, which starts with "If a Team Proposal is still",=
 with:

"If, at the time of voting, a Team Proposal is still a Provisional=
 Proposal, or its *namelist* includes a player who has reached eir=
 per-nweek proposal limit with lower-numbered proposals, the Team Proposal=
 is excluded from the ballot, and is considered to have failed; for=
 calculating point losses, *namelist* comprises the original poster, and=
 those who acknowledged the proposal." [[Thus allowing a player to rescind=
 other proposals to make a given Team Proposal fit.]]

Replace the last paragraph, which starts with "Team Proposals", with:

"Team Proposals count toward a player's per-nweek proposal limit under=
 bandwidth rationing; however, once that limit has been reached, a player=
 may participate in up to two additional Team Proposals. [[As in, a player=
 may submit three solo proposals and sign up for two team proposals, or=
 submit two solo and join in three team, or join in five team.  Team=
 Proposals can be made over and above the normal three, but also squeeze=
 out solos from the bandwidth ration if they're done first.]]"

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 01:34:55 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: Double Standard
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Statement:

CFJ 251, that non-player entities' votes should count since they are not=
 regulated as players, was judged false; the analysis included the=
 following:

"Rule 30, which reads "Each Player may cast exactly one vote on each=
 proposal on any given Ballot.", serves to regulate the action of voting.=
 Since voting is thus regulated by the rules, non-player entities may only=
 vote as specified by the rules. No rule specifies how a non-player entity=
 should vote."

In other words, if there is a rule that mentions how a given action is=
 performed under certain circumstances, said action cannot be performed=
 under any other circumstances.

Yet, CFJ 249, that certain proposals that didn't use the Standard=
 Delimiters from rule 217, was also judged false; the analysis included the=
 following:

"Rule 217 merely defines the standard delimeters; nowhere does it require=
 that they are used."

In other words, just because there is a rule that mentions how a given=
 action is performed under certain circumstances, said action is not=
 prevented from being performed under any other circumstances.

These two judgments are contradictory; therefore one of them must be=
 invalid.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:46:22 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: The Grid
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Create a new rule called _The Grid_ with the following text:

{{
There shall exist an environment known as the Grid. The Grid is a square 
composed of units. The Grid is 20 units wide by 20 units tall. The units 
are numbered from 1 to 20 horizontally (the x axis) and 1 to 20 vertically 
(the y axis). Each unit on the Grid can be expressed as an (x,y) coordinate 
location. The unit (1,1) shall be below the unit (1,2) and to the left of 
unit (2,1). [[Meaning unit (1,1) is in the lower left of the Grid.]]

Units of the Grid may be occupied by Players. Players are either on the 
Grid or off the Grid. A Player who is off the Grid is located in Limbo. A 
Player who is on the Grid will have a location expressed by the (x,y) 
coordinate location of the unit e occupies. Each Player may occupy only one 
unit at a time. Multiple Players may not occupy the same unit at the same 
time.

The Grid shall initially contain five Shiny Things and five Scary Dark 
Things. The Administrator shall randomly determine the initial location of 
each of the five Shiny Things and each of the five Scary Dark Things. For 
each Shiny Thing or each Scary Dark Thing, the Administrator shall generate 
a random location by using the value of each die of 2d20 to generate the x 
and y coordinates of each Shiny Thing and each Scary Dark Thing. The 
Administrator shall never reveal the current locations of the Shiny Things 
and Scary Dark Things to any Player, unless in a manner prescribed by the 
rules.

If at any time a Player occupies the same unit as a Shiny Thing, e will be 
awarded 25 points and the Shiny Thing will instantly teleport to a new 
location on the Grid to be determined at random by the Administrator.

If at any time a Player occupies the same unit as a Scary Dark Thing, e 
will lose 25 points, and the Scary Dark Thing will instantly teleport to a 
new location on the Grid to be determined at random by the Administrator.

Initially, all Players are in Limbo. A Player may enter the Grid by 
announcing on a public Forum that e will enter the Grid at a particular 
(x,y) coordinate location. A Player may enter the Grid at any location not 
already occupied by another Player. Once a player has entered the Grid, e 
shall be considered on the Grid. Once a player is on the Grid, e may only 
leave the Grid [[e.g. change his status to "off the Grid"]] or move to 
other units on the Grid in a manner prescribed by the rules.

Once per week, any Player on the Grid may announce that e intends to move 
to a new (x,y) coordinate location. Unless otherwise prescribed by the 
rules, Players may only move from eir current location to any of the units 
surround eir current location. [[E.g. the x and y coordinates of a player's 
location may only be increased or decreased by 1 each nweek.]]

Moves on the Grid happen at the end of the nweek and are processed in the 
order in which they were announced. If a Player attempts to move into a 
unit occupied by another Player, eir Move fails and e remains in eir 
current location.
}}

EXPLANATION: Eh, hell, why not. Seems like fun. I can also envision other 
ways to add interest to the Grid, esp. by figuring out rules that create 
ways to learn the location of the Shiny Things and Scary Dark Things. For 
example, maybe Players can only move one unit but can see five units, so as 
they get near a Thing they can see it.

NOTE: while I already have three proposals outstanding those were submitted 
in the previous nweek and do not count toward this nweek's bandwidth 
limitation.

--gritter

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:49:20 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: I've got more imaginary friends that you, nyah nyah
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Amend Rule 20/1 to read as follows:

{{
_Eligible Voters_

Each Player is eligible to vote on a Ballot if they became a Player in the 
manner prescribed in the rules at least one full nday prior to the time at 
which Voting on that nweek's Ballot begins. Players who became a Player 
less than one full nday prior to the time at which Voting on that given 
nweek's Ballot begins may not vote until the following nweek's Voting.

Each Player is eligible to vote on each issue on any given Ballot for the 
duration of the voting for which the Ballot was issued.
}}

EXPLANATION: This is intended to keep Players from loading the game with 
ringers (imaginary or otherwise) used to flood the game with proposals or 
votes at key points (e.g. immediately prior to the issuance of a ballot or 
immediately prior to the closing of the Voting). In the event of an attempt 
to load the Player roster prior to the issuance of a Ballot to flood the 
game with votes or proposals, there will be at least a one day window for a 
CFJ to be issued.

This should help remedy the imaginary friend strategy.

--gritter

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:52:35 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: You can't avoid the Sushi
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Amend the current version of Rule 213 to include the following as the 
penultimate paragraph:

{{
Should the Player who has the Cursed Sushi of Babel (known also as the 
Cursed Player) post any message to a public Forum without first taking the 
steps prescribed above, then any other Player may submit a Call for 
Judgment stating that the Cursed Player has Denied the Undeniable Sushi. If 
the Judge finds it to be true that the Cursed Player has Denied the 
Undeniable Sushi, then for each message found to violate the prescribed 
steps, the Cursed Player shall lose 5 points and shall be penalized with 
the Sushi for one additional nday. While holding the Sushi, no Player may 
receive more than four additional ndays as penalties during any single 
period in which they are cursed with the Sushi, however there is no limit 
on point penalties. [[E.g. if you're a repeat violator you might get four 
additional days over your original four, but you might run up 65 (or more) 
points of penalties. If you get the Sushi again later in the game you could 
get four more additionaly ndays tacked onto that curse period for further 
infractions.]]
}}

EXPLANATION: If you've been cursed with the Sushi, you gotta live up to the 
curse.

--gritter

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: More revisions
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:52:09 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>{{</P>
<P>Amend proposal 282/1 by replacing the entire -0- delimited text with the following -00- delimited text.</P>
<P>-00-<BR>There exists a gremlin known as the Bandwidth Gremlin. At the beginning of each nweek, if the Bandwidth Gremlin is Active, the Bandwidth Gremlin gives what is known as the "Token of Proposals" to the player who recieved the highest number of YEA votes on eir proposals for the previous nweek.&nbsp; The player who holds the Token of Proposals may make one more proposal than is allowed under the current ruleset. Immediately after eir extra proposal is recognized by the Administrator, the Token of Proposals is automatically returned to the Bandwidth Gremlin. If, at the beginning of an nweek, two players are tied for the highest number of YEA votes, the Token of Proposals is given to the player with the lower score. A player may not recieve the Token of Proposals if eir charm is equal to zero, or if their activity is less than zero. <BR><BR>If the same player recieves the Token of Proposals two nweeks in a row, or if the player who recieves the Token of Proposals is selected randomly, the Bandwidth Gremlin shall go into Hiding. If at any point the Bandwidth Gremlin has been in Hiding for two nweeks, e shall become Active. <BR>-00-</P>
<P>}}<BR></P>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, Serif"><STRONG>-0- </STRONG><FONT color=#000000>Thus Spake <STRONG>The Voice</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#000000> <STRONG>-0-</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>*Ignore this signature if :</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>1) it doesn't make sense to you</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>2) it seems outdated</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>4) you didn't read to the end of this list.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you, and have a nice day.*</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag1_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:32:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday morning)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Remember, voting starts in about 5 and a half hours. There's still time to
get in those last-minute proosals!

Re: 250: 'twas just a slip-up on my part, I expect. Fixed (and it doesn't
count as a new revision, in the unlikely event such matters).

"For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost" is 283/0. Once again, this
is something I was going to do anyway, but if it's gonna be voted on, then
I'll wait. :-)

271: The <namelist> instances were in fact there, but since that looks
suspiciously like an HTML tag, they were rendered invisible.  (Aside:
Please don't do that. <anything> makes life harder for all of us.) Anyway,
since there were real changes... revised as 271/1.

Glotmorf's "either 251 or 249 is wrong" CFJ is 284, assigned to Rob.

Glotmorf's "Grammar Nitpick G1" is 285/0.

Regarding Fora: spoon-business is a Public Forum (which I thought everyone
knew by now). I have never designated spoon-discuss as either a Public or
Private forum - it's just this mailing list, y'see...

"The Grid" is 286/0. And very cool.

"I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah" is rectified (change
that to than in the title) and recognized as 287/0.

"You can't avoid the Sushi" is 288/0.

"Generous Gremlins!" is revised (282/2).

...dave

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:19:00 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Last minute revision
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Phew... made it back in time to sneak in a revision.  Dave, I'm going to 
interpret your:

>And thanks for not making me re-type the whole darn
>proosal. :)

as a sign that you want me to make revisions with full-text so that they 
may be cut and pasted.  If I am interpreting this badly, forgive and 
correct me.  And now I shall continue in that vein:

Revise Proposal 276 to read:

{{

__We Can Only See Shadows On The Wall__

If proposal 275 passed and received more affirmative votes than this 
proposal, this proposal does nothing.

Otherwise, the following actions are taken:

Revise Rule 128 to read:

{{
__Call For Inquiry__

If a player has any question or complaint regarding the rules or their 
application, e may issue a Call For Inquiry (CFI, or for historical [[and 
Roman]] reference, CFJ).

A CFI may be issued by any player by posting eir intention to a public 
forum together with a Statement in question and optionally an analyisis. 
That Player shall be known as the Plaintiff with regard to the CFI. While 
submitting CFI the Plaintiff may also specify a player or the Administrator 
as Defendant for that CFI.

CFIs are given a serial number as if they were a revisable object. A CFI 
cannot be modified once submitted.
}}

Revise Rule 127 to read:
{{
__Judges__

When a Call for Inquiry has been made, the Administrator shall randomly 
select one player among the eligible players to be the Judge. Eligble 
players for the purpose of this rule are all players excepting the 
Defendant, the Plaintiff and players in the List of Misbehaving Judges. If 
that leaves no players eligible to be the Judge, then out of the players on 
the List of Misbehaving Judges, the player who was placed on the List of 
Misbehaving Judges first shall be the Judge.

In the event of a CFI naming the Administrator as defendant, the duty of 
randomly selecting an Judge shall fall to the player with the highest 
Score. That player will also be ineligible to be a Judge for the CFI.
}}

Revise Rule 128 to read:
{{
__Judgement__

A Judge shall, within seven days of eir selection, give one of the 
following responses to the Call for Inquiry to which e was assigned, 
accompanied by an Analysis:

1. Refused: A Judge may refuse to hear the CFI if it lacks a clear 
Statement or is not germain to the game.
2. True: The Statement is true.
3. False: The Statement is false.
4. Undecided: It could not be determined at the time the CFI was made 
whether the Statement is true or false.
[[not quite completly ripped off from A Nomic]]

This response constitutes the Judge's Judgement on that CFI and has the 
same serial number of the CFI.

The Analysis of the Judgement is the reasoning that the Judge used to 
arrive at the Judgement, and must be a direct interpretation of the rules. 
A Judge may not make a Judgement which is contradictory to one or more 
rules, e may however refer to precedent, game custom, and the spirit of the 
game in making eir Analysis. [[A ruling against one or more rules results 
in another Call For Inquiry, or we need an appealate court]]

Should it happen that a Judge has not issued a Resolution within seven days 
of eir selection, that Judge shall be recused and a new player shall be 
selected in the ways prescribed by the rules as Judge for the CFI. When a 
Judge is recused in this manner, e shall lose 10 points and, if a rule 
entitled "Misbehaving Judges" exists, eir name shall be added to the List 
of Misbehaving Judges.
}}

After points have been awarded to Bean for the passage of this proposal, 
transfer one third (rounded up) of the aforementioned points to Scoff!.
[[ Scoff! initally took on the role of Judicial Reformer... I'm just trying 
to give it my own twist ]]
Transfer 2 points from Bean to Uncle Psychosis. [[ A tip of the hat for the 
title :) ]]
}}

}}

Bean

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:48:30 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: ... and I am my own king.
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've got one left, I might as well use it.

{{

Bean gains the title "Moron".

}}

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:06:31 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ text correction
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 254 indicates the analysis is by "Judge gritter," however I was the 
Plaintiff, not the Judge.

--gritter

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 02:19:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First off: official recognitions. The revision of 276 is recognized
(276/2) and "... and I am my own king." is 289/0.

The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 5:

Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)

Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)

Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)

Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)

Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)

Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)

Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)

Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)

Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
               (Congenital Optimist)

Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)

Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)

Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)

Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)

Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)

Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)

Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)

Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)

Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)

Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)

Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)

Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)

Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)

Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)

Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)

Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
               (gritter)

Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)

Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)

Votes are due by the end of the nweek, which is 4 PM on the 23rd, Pacific
time (7 PM Eastern, midnight Nomic time). Actually, one second before
that.

...dave

Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:06:53 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Except that I'm a moron and sent it to the wrong list.  (See, vote for my 
last proposition.  I deserve it).

So just to make my votes "official".

At 02:19 AM 2002-01-21 +0000, you wrote:
>The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 5:
>
>Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
YES

>Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
YES

>Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
YES [[ This rule will self-destruct in 10 seconds ]]

>Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
YES

>Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
NO

>Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
>                (Congenital Optimist)
YES

>Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
YES

>Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
YES [[ Sure, why not! ]]

>Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
YES

>Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
YES [[ I missed the latest revision on this... I like ]]

>Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
YES [[ Crap... I just noticed my justice reform proposals would squash 
this... hrmm... If one of my proposals passes I'll have to rectify that 
next nweek ]]

>Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
NO

>Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
YES

>Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES

>Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
YES [[ Yes, damnit!  Yes!!!! I shall be King!!! ]]

>Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO [[ Sorry Psychosis, I'm afraid. ]]

>Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

>Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
YES

>Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
YES

>Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
YES

>Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
>                (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
YES

>Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
YES

Bean

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:17:43 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: failure notice
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

My votes below
 
> > The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 5:
> > 
> > Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
> 
 YES
> 
> > Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
> > 
> 
 YES
> 
> > Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
> 
 NO (I dont mind 0 based time)

> > 
> > Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
> > 
> 

 YES

> 
> > Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
> > 

 YES (well, I did propose it!)
> 
> > Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
> > 
 
 YES (ditto (even if all it does is delete itself! (If I where sensible,
 I would have revised it to do sometinhg usefull!)))
> 
> > Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
> > 
 NO
> 
> > Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
> > 
> 
 NO (I preffer rationing by number of proposals)
> 
> > Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
> >                (Congenital Optimist)
> 
 YES
> > 
> > Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
> > 
> 
 YES
> > Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
> > 
> 
 YES
> 
> > Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
> 
 YES (might as well, this has even less efect than 253)
> > 
> > Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
> > 
> 
 NO
> 
> > Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
> 
 YES
> > 
> > Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
> > 
> 
 NO (prefer 276, if anything)
> > Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
> > 
> 
 YES
> > Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
> > 
> 
 YES
> > Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
> > 
> 
 YES
> 
> > Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
> 
 NO
> > 
> > Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
> > 
> 
 Yes
> 
> > Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
> > 
> 
 YES
> > Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
> > 
> 
 YES
> > Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
> > 
> 
 YES (this gets me, too.)
 ( though you could just have asked the administrator to do it under
 257)
> > Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
> > 
> 
 Yes
> 
> > Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
> >                (gritter)
> 
> 
 YES
> > 
> > Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
> > 
> 
 YES
> 
> > Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
> 
> 
 NO
> 
> cheers,
> Iain
> 
> 

Subject: spoon-business: Revision of 266
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:16:05 -0600
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In Proposal 266, replace the text:

"Repeal rule 212. "

with

the following:

"Replace the entire text of Rule 212 with the following:

{{Each player is limited to a maximum of five proposals on the ballot =
per nweek.}}"

[[Combined with the character limit, this should serve as a reasonable =
extension of the current bandwidth limit.  Will discourage insanely-long =
proposals, while closing the loophole that lets people submit proposals =
for next nweek, and extending the limit from 3 to 5 (since some people a =
re managing 6 due to the loophole anyway)]]

Subject: spoon-business: FW: Proposal:  I've Got The Style It Takes
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:24:19 -0600
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Van Matre=20
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:33 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Proposal: I've Got The Style It Takes

Create a new rule:

__I've Got The Style It Takes__

{{
Once per nweek, a player may use eir Style Points to acquire Style =
Attributes.  The player must submit a message to the public forum =
indicating the Style Attribute(s) to be acquired. =20

Once a Style Attribute has been recognized by the administrator, three =
points shall be deducted from the player's Style for each word in the =
Style Attribute.  The Style Attribute will be added to the player's =
listing in the player roster.

Players may not acquire Style Attributes already acquired by another =
player.  New Style Attributes must be unique.

Players may not use Style to purchase attributes that alter or =
misrepresent the game state, or are in uniquely identifying use in the =
rule set.  Players are not allowed to use Style points to purchase =
possession of game entities, or Titles that have been defined by the =
rules.  [[e.g. one can't purchase "has 1200 points" as an attribute, =
since it misrepresents the game state.]]

The Administrator may, at eir discretion, refuse to recognize any Style =
Attribute which has the potential to confuse, misrepresent, or alter the =
game state.  Style Attributes are for vanity purposes only. =20

[[This allows players to make some use of Style points by adding vanity =
attributes to their listing on the player roster.  e.g. "Supreme Funk =
Lord Of Nomic", or whatever.  If we're going to have Style points, might =
as well use them to pretty ourselves up a bit.]]
}}

Subject: spoon-business: Proposal:  I've Got The Style It Takes
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:33:13 -0600
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Create a new rule:

__I've Got The Style It Takes__

{{
Once per nweek, a player may use eir Style Points to acquire Style =
Attributes.  The player must submit a message to the public forum =
indicating the Style Attribute(s) to be acquired. =20

Once a Style Attribute has been recognized by the administrator, three =
points shall be deducted from the player's Style for each word in the =
Style Attribute.  The Style Attribute will be added to the player's =
listing in the player roster.

Players may not acquire Style Attributes already acquired by another =
player.  New Style Attributes must be unique.

Players may not use Style to purchase attributes that alter or =
misrepresent the game state, or are in uniquely identifying use in the =
rule set.  Players are not allowed to use Style points to purchase =
possession of game entities, or Titles that have been defined by the =
rules.  [[e.g. one can't purchase "has 1200 points" as an attribute, =
since it misrepresents the game state.]]

The Administrator may, at eir discretion, refuse to recognize any Style =
Attribute which has the potential to confuse, misrepresent, or alter the =
game state.  Style Attributes are for vanity purposes only. =20

[[This allows players to make some use of Style points by adding vanity =
attributes to their listing on the player roster.  e.g. "Supreme Funk =
Lord Of Nomic", or whatever.  If we're going to have Style points, might =
as well use them to pretty ourselves up a bit.]]
}}

Subject: spoon-business: FW: Revision of 266
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:22:47 -0600
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This should have got in in time, but it appears our mail system is =
plotting against me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Van Matre=20
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:16 PM
To: [email-masked]'; [email-masked]
Subject: Revision of 266

In Proposal 266, replace the text:

"Repeal rule 212. "

with

the following:

"Replace the entire text of Rule 212 with the following:

{{Each player is limited to a maximum of five proposals on the ballot =
per nweek.}}"

[[Combined with the character limit, this should serve as a reasonable =
extension of the current bandwidth limit.  Will discourage insanely-long =
proposals, while closing the loophole that lets people submit proposals =
for next nweek, and extending the limit from 3 to 5 (since some people a =
re managing 6 due to the loophole anyway)]]

Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:30:09 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Invoke rule 255?
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mr. Administrator, there appears to be a typo in proposal 276.  The=
 following three actions occur, in sequence:

Revise rule 128 with text
Revise rule 127 with text
Revise rule 128 with text

Since proposal 276 is meant to be an antithesis to proposal 275, which=
 modifies 126, 127 and 128 in sequence, I assume the first 128 in p276=
 should be 126 instead.

						Glotmorf

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: VOTES
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:49:02 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First, an apology for the html-laced messages.  That was my bad, didn't even 
know I was sending them.  Won't happen again, I assure you.

Now down to business... Ahem.

Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
YES
Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
YES
Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
NO (ditto on the 0-based time... who really cares?)
Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
YES
Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
YES
Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
NO (does nothing, no plague)
Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
YES (even though I got 23 random points earlier)
Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
NO
Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and 
Drones(Congenital Optimist)
YES
Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
YES
Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
YES
Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
YES (even though it's gonna be the gremlin snack this nweek.)
Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
NO
Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
YES
Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
NO
Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
NO
Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO
Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
YES
Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO
Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES
Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
YES
Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
YES
Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
YES (umm... sure)
Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
YES (and DAMN COOL!)
Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah(gritter)
YES
Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
YES
Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
YES

There we go..

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:31:42 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: New Rule Proposal: An Offer You Can't Refuse
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{ _An Offer You Can't Refuse_

Create a new rule:

{{ _Luigi the Gremlin_

There exists a Gremlin known as Luigi.  Luigi begins existence with 100=
 points.

Players can borrow points from Luigi, on a first-come-first-serve basis, up=
 to the total number of points Luigi posesses.  The number of points a=
 Player owes Luigi is recorded in an Attribute called Debt.  A Player=
 cannot borrow from Luigi if e has a nonzero Debt.

At the beginning of each nweek after the nweek in which the Player borrowed=
 from Luigi, eir Debt increases by 20% in interest, rounded up.

A Player with nonzero Debt can repay Luigi at any time as a game Action by=
 transferring points to Luigi; eir Debt is reduced accordingly.

If a Player repays eir debt in the same nweek e borrowed the points, no=
 interest is charged.

At the end of an nweek, if a Player has failed to repay at least the=
 current nweek's Interest, Luigi takes eir points up to the Debt amount (or=
 all if eir points are less than the Debt amount), applies these taken=
 points to the Debt, and Breaks a Limb.  The number of Broken Limbs a=
 Player has is recorded in an Attribute called Broken Limbs.  Each Broken=
 Limb reduces the number of proposals a Player may participate in the=
 creation of by one.

Broken Limbs Heal at the rate of one per nweek, starting with the second=
 consecutive nweek in which the Player did not get an additional Limb=
 Broken, until all Limbs are Healed or more Limbs are Broken.
}}

[[Note that there is no limit to the number of Limbs that can be Broken;=
 nothing in the Rules says that game object known as a Player has to be=
 anatomically human.  Also, trying to win by borrowing from Luigi probably=
 isn't a good idea...sure, you'd score the win, and then your points get=
 set to zero, and then Luigi comes to collect...Though if you're stuck at=
 zero points and zero proposals, the Scoring Gremlin should take pity on=
 you.]]

}}

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 06:38:29 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Votes, nweek 5
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 > Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
YES

 > Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
NO
[[Too broad given that "entity" has never been defined in the game.]]

 > Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
NO
[[Since the Plague of Gremlins does not exist, why pass this proposal which 
does exactly nothing???]]

 > Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
YES

 > Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
NO
[[ Long live Bandwith Limitation!!!  Long live Rule 212!!! ]]

 > Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones 
(Congenital Optimist)
NO

 > Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
YES
[[Although, I just realized that as long as new players are joining the 
game the Scoring Gremlin will not do much. E.g. right now Bean and Barry 
Von Skippy both have zero points. Being tied, that sends the Scoring 
Gremlin into hiding. So any given nweek where we have two new players will 
force the Scoring Gremlin into hiding.]]

 > Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
YES

 > Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
NO

 > Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
NO
[[Still not comfortable with this. I'd prefer to see players be required to 
actually form teams that have some meaning and persistence instead of just 
getting together for one nweek to generate some extra proposals.]]

 > Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
YES

 > Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
NO

 > Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
NO

 > Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO
[[BAD, BAD, BAD. Does away with the statute of limitations and will allow 
anyone to CFJ anything back until the beginning of the game. ]]

 > Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
YES

 > Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

 > Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
YES

 > Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
NO
[[A stated purpose of this proposal is to give players a way to propose 
stuff to use up their limit even when they have nothing of value to 
propose. Ugh.]]

 > Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
NO
[[This can be solved by Administrator under the Powers of Executive 
Tidiness, Rule 257, and does not require a proposal.]]

 > Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
YES

 > Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
NO
[[Bean already receives this title -- actually a BETTER one -- via Proposal 
278]]

From: "ID Scott, Science 99" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Votes, nweek 5
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:02:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>  > Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
> NO
> [[Since the Plague of Gremlins does not exist, why pass this proposal which 
> does exactly nothing???]]
> 
Well, why not?

cheers,
Iain

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: CFJ: Double Standard
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:29:34 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C1A348.D4FC6C90
Content-Type: text/plain

Rob wrote: [a bunch of stuff, ending with]
> Which should be patently obvious.

I give the 5th Annual Uncle Psychosis Award for Saying Good Stuff to Rob.
This consists of me giving him 1 point.

uin.

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:33:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
cc: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: My votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
YES

> Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
NO

> Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
NO

> Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
YES

> Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
YES

> Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
NO

> Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal)
> (Scoff!)
YES

> Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
NO

> Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and
> Drones (Congenital Optimist)
YES

> Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
NO

> Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
YES

> Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
YES

> Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
YES

> Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
NO

> Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
NO

> Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
YES

> Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO

> Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES

> Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
YES

> Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost
> (Glotmorf)
YES

> Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
YES

> Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
YES

> Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah
> nyah (gritter)
YES

> Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
YES

> Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
NO

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:23:34 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Sushi
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I give the Sushi to Baron von Skippy.

Yes, he tried to take it already, but spoon-discuss is *not* a public forum.

I feel free.
-- 
Wonko 

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:18:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: New Player
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello everyone.  I've been quietly observing this game since it started,
and now I'd like to join.

My name is Dan.  I am at the Origin.  The Origin is Full of Stars.

Dan

Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:01:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: My Votes
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Proposal 245/0: YES

Proposal 246/1: NO

Proposal 247/0: YES

Proposal 250/0: YES

Proposal 252/0: YES

Proposal 253/0: NO

Proposal 265/0: NO
(This will be too easy to scam into freezing the whole game)

Proposal 266/0: NO

Proposal 267/1: YES

Proposal 268/0: YES

Proposal 269/0: NO
(I'd vote for this if it didn't have the randomness)

Proposal 270/0: YES

Proposal 271/1: NO

Proposal 274/1: NO

Proposal 275/1: NO

Proposal 276/2: NO

Proposal 277/1: NO

Proposal 278/0: YES

Proposal 279/0: NO

Proposal 281/0: NO

Proposal 282/2: YES

Proposal 283/0: YES

Proposal 285/0: YES

Proposal 286/0: NO

Proposal 287/0: NO

Proposal 288/0: YES

Proposal 289/0: NO

Dan

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:51:20 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
Yes
>
>Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
Yes
>
>Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
No
>
>Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
Yes
>
>Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
No
>
>Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
>               (Congenital Optimist)
Yes
>
>Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
Yes
>
>Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
Yes
>
>Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
Yes
>
>Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
Yes
>
>Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
Yes
>
>Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
No
>
>Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
No
[[Sorry, Bean...no word from Mr. A. at this writing.  I liked 276 better=
 than 275, but I can't vote for 276 with that typo in place.]]
>
>Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
No
>
>Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
No
>
>Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
No
>
>Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
No
>
>Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
Yes
>
>Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
Yes
>
>Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
Yes
>
>Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
>               (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
Yes
>
>Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
No.  Being a moron should be its own reward.

						Glotmorf

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:04:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Please continue to hold!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

My personal life has taken a major turn south -- please don't ask -- but I
should have everything that needs to be recognized, recognized, sometime
this evening. Ditto for vote-counting, hopefully.

Remember, voting ends in just a few short hours (okay, about 15 hours as I
write this, but they're shorter than you think).

...dave

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: Votes for nweek 5
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:39:33 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

YES > Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
NO > Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)

Amusing, but ultimately I think it's unfairly biased toward those who =
check their e-mail most frequently.  And I say this as one of the more =
frequent e-mailers on this list.

YES > Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
NO > Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)

It's going to pass, anyway.  I'm just voting against it as a matter of =
principle, because it felt compelled to allude to Survivor.  I hate =
Survivor.  Couldn't you have called it the Impeccable Karma Stick or =
something?  The Tiki of Gremlin Repellence?
=20
YES > Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
NO > Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
YES > Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) =
(Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)

Guess I stand alone on this one.  I'm curious if it would have been =
different if my (%$&* revision had gone in, instead of being delayed at =
the capricious whim of our e-mail system.

YES > Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and =
Drones
YES > Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)

It only costs a maximum of 50 points to eliminate the 2 most vocal =
opponents of your proposal(s)?  Bugger that for a lark!

There's already some disincentive to openly discussing improvements to =
proposals because of the scoring...it's more profitable to get points =
for fixing the proposal with your own prop next nweek.  This will only =
make it worse, because anyone who openly opposes any proposal can be =
prevented from voting on *any* proposals for a mere 25 points.

Emphatically no!
=20
YES > Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
ABSTAIN > Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
NO > Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)

Almost verbatim retread of my proposal last nweek.  Sadly, due to being =
*almost* verbatim, it omits some rather crucial anti-loophole phrases.  =
All the length problems that doomed my proposal last week, plus more to =
boot, just to be sure it's doomed this week, too.  Even *I* can't vote =
for it, and I originally proposed a lot of this stuff.

NO > Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
NO > Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
NO > Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)

Unnecessary.  Already defined by the Titles rule: "Players have an =
attribute named Nobility which is a list of all titles the player =
currently holds."  And all player attributes are being recorded by the =
Administrator on the player roster already.  Only reason to vote for =
this is to label Bean a moron.  See my comments on 289 regarding that.

NO > Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES > Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES > Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
ABSTAIN > Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost =
(Glotmorf)

Another unnecessary bit of legislation.  The rules are already part of =
the game state...the categorization could have been implemented as =
administrative fluff without a proposal to spell it out.  Still, I'm not =
giving a "NO" vote because I do like that it explicitly states you can =
assign categories via proposal...I'd like to encourage the act of =
categorizing proposals as they are submitted.

NO > Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)

Powers of Executive Tidiness was enacted specifically so we didn't have =
a bunch of tiny "fix this grammar mistake" proposals.  No need to hand =
out easy points for noticing one mistake.  If we really want to go that =
way, I'll be filling my bandwidth for the foreseeable future with =
nothing but spelling and grammar corrections.
=20
YES > Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
YES > Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
YES > Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
NO > Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)

There's nothing moronic about duping people into giving you 3 to 18 free =
points for taking on a completely harmless title.

Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:37:05 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: I give Sushi to the baron.
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I give Sushi to the baron.

-- 
Wonko
Recruit today night it feels.

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:11:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday evening)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

~Okay, this one will be a bit of a doozy. In fact, I'm gonna do it in two
parts.

This first part is all the stuff that shall be considered as recognized
(or otherwise done) before the end of nweek 5. (i.e. new proposals,
rectifications, and so on. I don't know what all this entails because I
fell WAY behind on Nomic mail.)

286 is rectified (changed "week" to "nweek" in the penultimate paragraph).

Scoff!'s revisions of 266 is NOT recognized - it came in far too late, and
is more than a mere typo rectification. Sorry, Scoff!.

(This does present an interesting argument against last-minute proposals.
Heck, if I were a player, I'd probably propose something like "Proposals
can only be submitted in the first 5 ndays of an nweek," so there's
guaranteed to be time to discuss 'em. But that's just me.)

"I've Got The Style It Takes" is recognized as 290/0.

276 is rectified (change first instance of "128" to "126"). Since I
believe all the players knew what it was intended to mean, I don't see a
problem here. (Feel free to CFJ me if you must.)

"Standard Optional Delimiters" is 291/0.

"An Offer You Can't Refuse" is 292/0.

Uncle Psychosis gives 1 point to Rob.

Baron von Skippy wrests the Sushi from Wonko's possession into eir own.
(Or Wonko gives it to the willing recipient, Baron von Skippy. Either way,
Baron, it's all yours.)

"Dan" joins B Nomic. And then votes like two minutes later. Whee!

To UIN, regarding rule renumbering: It's certainly not that the database
lacks flexibility, it's that I lack time. Renumbering every darn rule in
the system would be a healthy piece of work. The design is sufficiently
abstract that rules, proposals, and CFJs are all stored in the same table,
and every revision creates a new entry in said table. Quite frankly, I'm
not gonna renumber about 500 game objects. :-)

Okay, to the best of my knowledge, that covers all the business that needs
to be done. On to vote counting!

...dave

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:25:46 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Revisions to p292
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Replace the text of proposal 292 with the following:

{{ _An Offer You Can't Refuse_

Create a new rule:

{{ _The LoanShark Gremlin (AKA Luigi)_

There exists a Gremlin called the LoanShark Gremlin, also known as Luigi.=
  Luigi begins existence Active and with 100 points.

Players can borrow points from Luigi, on a first-come-first-serve basis, up=
 to the total number of points Luigi posesses.  The number of points a=
 Player owes Luigi is recorded in an Attribute called Debt.  A Player=
 cannot borrow from Luigi if e has a nonzero Debt.

At the beginning of each nweek after the nweek in which the Player borrowed=
 from Luigi, eir Debt increases by 20% in interest, rounded up.

A Player with nonzero Debt can repay Luigi at any time as a game Action by=
 transferring points to Luigi; eir Debt is reduced accordingly.

If a Player repays eir debt in the same nweek e borrowed the points, no=
 interest is charged.

At the end of an nweek, if a Player has failed to repay at least the=
 current nweek's Interest, Luigi takes eir points up to the Debt amount (or=
 all if eir points are less than the Debt amount), applies these taken=
 points to the Debt, and Breaks a Limb.  The number of Broken Limbs a=
 Player has is recorded in an Attribute called Broken Limbs.  Each Broken=
 Limb reduces the number of proposals a Player may participate in the=
 creation of by one.

Broken Limbs Heal at the rate of one per nweek, starting with the second=
 consecutive nweek in which the Player did not get an additional Limb=
 Broken, until all Limbs are Healed or more Limbs are Broken.

If at any time Luigi possesses no points and no Player has a nonzero Debt,=
 Luigi goes into Hiding.  Luigi becomes Active again if points are=
 transferred into his possession.
}}

}}

[[I guess "Luigi" is his street name.]]

						Glotmorf

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:49:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: nweek 5 results!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The second part is all the voting stuff for the end of nweek 5. For the
first time in the game, someone actually sent me private votes that I'll
be required to disclose - sometime tomorrow, hopefully, I'll scan my vote
records and upload the resultant graphics to the Web site somewhere.
(Nobody said I'm required to make them convenient, merely accessible.
Heck, I'd prefer it if votes remained private.)

Actually, I'll probably just forward the relevant votes to the list.

Anyway.

245/0 passes (9-2).
Created 2/1.
gritter scores 15 points.

246/1 passes (6-5).
Created 260/1.
gritter scores 8 points.

247/0 passes (6-5).
Created 3/4.
Web page fixed in accordance with law. Whee!
Bean scores 11 points.

250/0 passes (8-3).
Created 293/0.
Created The Immunity Idol.
gritter scores 14 points.

252/0 passes (8-3)
Created 294/0.
Iain scores 9 points.

253/0 fails (2-9)
Iain loses 4 points.

265/0 passes (7-4)
Created 155/1.
Scoff! scores 10 points.

266/0 fails (2-9)
Scoff! loses 3 points.

267/1 passes (10-1)
Created 295/0.
Created 258/2.
Added "Changing gender more than twice in any nday or nweek" to the LOGAS.
I hope this is an acceptable abbreviation.
Congenital Optimist scores 17 points.

268/0 passes (11-0)
Created 296/0.
Created The Scoring Gremlin.
Wonko scores 9 points.

269/0 passes (7-4)
Created 297/0.
Created The Witch Gremlin.
Wonko scores 13 points.

270/0 is eaten by the Proposal Eating Gremlin and thus the fact that it
passed 10-1 means nothing.

271/1 failed (4-7)
Glotmorf loses 5 points.

274/1 passes (7-3-1)
Created 126/3.
The Voice scores 12 points.

275/1 fails (0-11)
Bean loses 2 points.

276/2 fails (4-7)
Bean loses 3 points.

277/1 fails (3-8).
Uncle Psychosis loses 1 point.

278/0 passes (7-4)
Created the List O' Nobility.
Created 298/0.
The Voice scores 8 points.
Bean gains the Title "Nitpicking King of Morons".
Added "claiming you have a title that is not recognized on the LON" to the
LOGAS.
Wiped sweat from brow.

279/0 failed (1-10).
Uncle Psychosis loses 4 points.

281/1 passes (7-4).
Oh dear.
Created 212/1.
Uncle Psychosis gains 13 points.

282/2 passes (11-0)
Created 299/0.
Created the Bandwidth Gremlin and the Token of Proposals, in the
possession of the Bandwidth Gremlin.
The Voice scores 12 points.

283/0 passes (8-2-1)
Y'know, if you'd just asked nicely, I would've whipped up something
similar to this on my own. :)
Created 300/0.
Glotmorf scores 11 points.

285/0 passes (8-3).
Created 214/1.
Glotmorf scores 7 points.

286/0 passes (10-1).
Created 301/0.
Created The Grid, and all its associated trappings.
(Okay, that's a fib. I'll create it in the morning.)
gritter scores 15 points.

287/0 passed (8-3)
Created 20/2.
gritter scores 11 points.

288/0 passes (9-2)
Created 213/2.
gritter scores 10 points.

289/0 fails (4-7).
Bean loses 6 points.

Other end-of-nweek cleanup:

The new Gremlin Number is 97.

The Immunity Idol is awarded to gritter.

The Bandwidth Gremlin attempts to award the Token of Proposals to gritter,
but is foiled by the Immunity Idol. The Token of Proposals is retained by
the Bandwidth Gremlin, since it doesn't seem to have anywhere else to go.

Rule 155's self-modification sequence kicks in:
Bob the Voting Fish ceases to exist. And e will be missed.
Created 155/2.

The Roster will now undergo a whole bucket of updates...

Antonio
Activity 1 Charm 4 Distance 88.1 Score 88 Speed 22.95 Style 0

Baron von Skippy
Activity -1 Charm 0 Distance 1 Score 0 Speed -1 Style 0

Bean
Activity 2 Charm 0 Distance 1.41 Score 0 Speed -11.78 Style 0

Congenital Optimist
Activity 2 Charm 1 Distance 40.06 Score 40 Speed 39.06 Style 0

Dan
Activity 1 Charm 0 Distance 1 Score 0 Speed 1 Style 0

Glotmorf
Activity 3 Charm 2 Distance 41.16 Score 41 Speed -3.9 Style 0

gritter
Activity 3 Charm 2 Distance 99.07 Score 99 Speed 94.6 Style 0

Iain
Activity 1 Charm 1 Distance 52.02 Score 52 Speed 27.92 Style 0

Joerg
Activity 1 Charm 6 Distance 80.23 Score 80 Speed -16.98 Style 0

Rob
Activity 3 Charm 7 Distance 104.28 Score 104 Speed -15.94 Style 0

Scoff!
Activity 3 Charm 1 Distance 64.08 Score 64 Speed 39.98 Style 0

The Voice
Activity 2 Charm 3 Distance 55.12 Score 55 Speed 54.12 Style 0

Turgul
Activity -3 Charm -1 Distance 10.49 Score 10 Speed 0.24 Style 0
On Forced Leave.

Uncle Psychosis
Activity 1 Charm 3 Distance 127.04 Score 127 Speed 26.96 Style 0

Wonko
Activity 3 Charm 16 Distance 198.67 Score 198 Speed 5.15 Style 0

I think that takes care of all the required end-of-nweek cleanup; if I
overlooked something, just politely tell me (as opposed to CFJing me or
storming off in disgust).

good night.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:06:06 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: More revisions to p292
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Add the following paragraph to the end of proposal 292:

Add the keywords "Gremlins", "PointsGained" and "PointsLost" to the rule.

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:06:13 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: New Rule Proposal: Gridwork 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Remember how in Star Wars Han Solo tries to shoot his way out of the Death=
 Star's garbage bin, and how his shot bounces off the magnetically sealed=
 door and ricochets around the room several times, almost hitting either=
 him or the people who are trapped with him?

See...I see the potential for something Just Like That happening with the=
 current version of the grid rules, as it's possible for a player to move=
 into the same location as either a Shiny Thing or a Dark Thing, and for=
 that Thing to teleport into the same location as another player, and=
 ricochet and keep on going.

It occurred to me that this warranted a change.  From my perspective I=
 figured I could either fix the situation or make it worse.

Anyway, here's my proposal...

{{ _Fixing It Would Be Too Easy_

Replace the fourth paragraph of Rule 301 with the following:

"If at any time a Player occupies the same grid location as a Shiny Thing,=
 e will be 
awarded 25 points and the Shiny Thing will be removed from the grid and=
 added to the Relocation Queue."

Replace the fifth paragraph of Rule 301 with the following:

"If at any time a Player occupies the same grid location as a Scary Dark=
 Thing, e 
will lose 25 points, and the Scary Dark Thing will be removed from the grid=
 and added to the Relocation Queue.  If the Player then has zero or less=
 points, eir point total is set to zero, and e is removed from the grid and=
 returned to Limbo."

Add the following text to the end of the sixth paragraph in Rule 301:

"A Player cannot enter the Grid if there are fewer than two unoccupied=
 locations on the Grid."

Add the following two paragraphs after the fifth paragraph of Rule 301:

"If at any time a Shiny or Dark Thing (either one) occupies the same grid=
 location as another Shiny or Dark Thing (either one), both Things will be=
 removed from the grid and added to the Relocation Queue."

"While there are Things in the Relocation Queue, the Administrator will=
 teleport each in turn to a randomly determined location on the grid."

Add the keywords "Grid", "PointsGained" and "PointsLost" to Rule 301.

}}

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:06:41 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: New Rule Proposal: Gridwork 2
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Now we make the walls start closing in...

{{ _Watch for Falling Rocks_

Create a new rule:

{{ _Big Rocks_

A Player can purchase a Big Rock to put on the Grid.  E may either specify=
 the target location of the Big Rock at a cost of 10+5d3 points, or allow=
 the Big Rock to be placed randomly at a cost of 5+5d3 points.

A Big Rock must be placed in a vacant location on the Grid, or in the same=
 location as another Big Rock.  Once a Big Rock is placed, no other object=
 -- Players, Things, etc. -- can occupy that Grid location.  If a Big Rock=
 is placed in the same location as another Big Rock, both Big Rocks are=
 destroyed and the location becomes vacant.

A Big Rock cannot be placed in a vacant location on the Grid if the number=
 of vacant locations is less than two.

If the calculated cost for the Big Rock is more points than the purchasing=
 Player has, e loses all eir points and the Big Rock is not purchased.

}}

Add the keywords "Grid" and "Purchases" to this rule.

}}

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-business: nweek 5 results!
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:01:03 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C1A4DF.8F7227D0
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> 277/1 fails (3-8).
>
I award myself a win. I award a win to each player (other than myself) who
voted for proosal 277/1, in alphabetical order by name. I alter the text of
rule 129 to what it would be had proosal 277/1 passed.

uin,
couldn't resist,
sorry.

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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: The Proposal Eating Gremlin Eats Decimals
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:07:09 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Statement:  The Proposal Eating Gremlin did not eat Proposal 270

Analysis:  Per Rule 261, the Proposal Eating Gremlin eats the kth =
proposal on the ballot, "Where the kth proposal is equal to the nth =
Gremlin number, where n is the number of proposals on the ballot."  =
Taking n =3D 27 (the number of proposals), the 27th Gremlin number is 53 =
/ (120/27) since 53 was the Gremlin number in effect 1 second before the =
counting of the votes.  53 / (120 / 27) =3D 11.925.  However, Rule 261 =
does not specify that the number should be rounded, or only the integer =
portion used.  Therefore the Proposal Eating Gremlin ate only the =
non-existent 11.925th proposal, and Proposal 270 (the 12th proposal on =
the ballot) passes. =20

--Scoff!

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: spoon-business: CFJ: The Proposal Eating Gremlin Eats Decimals --RESCINDED
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:55:11 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I rescind the CFJ below.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Van Matre=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 9:07 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: The Proposal Eating Gremlin=20
> Eats Decimals
>=20
>=20
> Statement:  The Proposal Eating Gremlin did not eat Proposal 270
>=20
> Analysis:  Per Rule 261, the Proposal Eating Gremlin eats the=20
> kth proposal on the ballot, "Where the kth proposal is equal=20
> to the nth Gremlin number, where n is the number of proposals=20
> on the ballot."  Taking n =3D 27 (the number of proposals), the=20
> 27th Gremlin number is 53 / (120/27) since 53 was the Gremlin=20
> number in effect 1 second before the counting of the votes. =20
> 53 / (120 / 27) =3D 11.925.  However, Rule 261 does not specify=20
> that the number should be rounded, or only the integer=20
> portion used.  Therefore the Proposal Eating Gremlin ate only=20
> the non-existent 11.925th proposal, and Proposal 270 (the=20
> 12th proposal on the ballot) passes. =20
>=20
> --Scoff!
>=20

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:58:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-business: nweek 5 results!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Doig, Gavin wrote:

> > 277/1 fails (3-8).
> >
> I award myself a win. I award a win to each player (other than myself) who
> voted for proosal 277/1, in alphabetical order by name. I alter the text of
> rule 129 to what it would be had proosal 277/1 passed.
> 
> uin,
> couldn't resist,
> sorry.

Okay, I'll bite.

I make the following CFJ:

Statement: Uncle Psychosis did not award emself a win, nor did he award
anyone else with a win, nor did he alter the text of rule 129.

Analysis:  Awarding wins is regulated, as is changing rules.  Thus Rule 18
does not apply (precedent from CFJ 251).  Therefore Uncle Psychosis
doesn't get to do this.

END CFJ

Now, I know you're just trying to exploit the Statute of Limitations, and
as much as you're right... I'm not going to sit idly by and let you do
this :)

Bean

content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ:  One second before the votes are REALLY counted
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:08:02 -0600
From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Statement:  The Proposal Eating Gremlin did not eat Proposal 270.  It =
ate Proposal 283 instead.

Analysis:  The Gremlin number changes "At the beginning of each nweek", =
i.e. at 00:00:00 UTC.  The Proposal Eating Gremlin, however, does its =
eating NOT 1 second before the end of the nweek, but 1 second before the =
votes are counted.  Unless the votes are counted within the first second =
of the new nweek, the Proposal Eating Gremlin must eat according to the =
new nweek's Gremlin number.  Per the Administrator's Daily Recognizer =
message at 11:13pm Central time Wednesday (5h13m after the new nweek =
began), e had not yet counted votes (cf. "On to vote counting!").  =
Therefore, the votes were not immediately counted within the first =
second of the nweek, and the Proposal Eating Gremlin eats according to =
the new Gremlin number 97.  97/(120/27) =3D 21.825, which rounds to 22.  =
The unnecessary-anyway proposal 283, 22nd on the ballot, is eaten.

--Scoff!

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL self-repealers
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:25:17 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
_Self-Repealing Rules_

Create a new rule, entitled _Self-Repealing Rules_, with the following
-0- delimited text:

-0-
A rule is considered to be "self-repealing" if the proposal which created it 
has its text delimited by the delimiter 'X-X-X' (without the single quotes). 
  A self-repealing rule automatically repeals itself once certain conditions 
are met.  The conditions must be outlined in the text of the rule, and 
should be delimited using the delimiter
'*-*-*' (without the single quotes).  Conditions may not consist, in any 
part, of a player giving eir permission, or otherwise controlling when the 
rule repeals itself.  [[Basically says that it has to be something like, 
"one nweek from it's passing," or "a player has over 200 points," or other 
things which place it out of a player's direct control.]]  Conditions may 
not be changed once a self-repealing rule is enacted.  [[No defusing these 
bombs.]]  No player may be awarded a win as the result of a self-repealing 
rule except through gaining the points associated with its passing.
-0-

}}

This allows for temporary changes to the rules to allow us to do things we 
might have not been able to do before.  If you try to abuse this, people 
won't vote for your SRP (self-repealing proposal).  This also allows for 
easy addition of keywords without clogging up the ruleset with proposals 
like "rule such-and-such gains the keyword so-and-so".  If anyone has any 
suggestions on the end part (trying to close up potential loopholes), send 
them out and I'd be glad to consider them.

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: damn you Wonko...
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:35:22 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
_More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions_

Amend rule 299/0 by replacing the string YEA with the string affirmative, 
and by appending the following -0- delimited text to the first paragraph.

-0-
If, for any reason, the Token of Proposals may not be awarded to the player 
to whom it would be awarded as specified elsewhere in this rule, it is 
awarded to the player who recieved the second-highest number of affirmative 
votes on eir proposals on the ballot for the previous nweek.
-0-

}}

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:01:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Thursday morning!)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Glotmorf's revision of 292 is recognized (292/1).

Glotmorf's "Fixing It Would Be Too Easy" is recognized (302/0).

The rules don't seem to *require* that keywords be added/removed via
proposals, only that proposals are one way for it to be done. So I will
probably start adding a whole bunch of keywords this weekend. (To be safe,
I will call them "NotKeywords" or something, but the effect will be the
same.) I hope this will save us all from being overwhelmed with a whole
bunch of small, silly proposals.

Which reminds me: All rules are currently listed as "Uncategorized."
Please don't CFJ me or anything because I just don't have time right now
to create a list of all the rules with the word "Uncategorized" next to
'em. Use your imagination.

Glotmorf's "Watch For Falling Rocks" is 303/0.

Wonko: Though I obviously disagree with your interpretation of Rule 299,
it seems I've no choice but to go with it. (It's one of those "letter of
the law" versus "spirit of the law" things which I abhor.)

The Token of Proposals is reluctantly given to Wonko.

Scoff!'s first CFJ was rescinded. Eir second CFJ is recognized as 304 and
assigned to Uncle Psychosis.

(I claim that the votes were in fact counted, within the game state, and
the game state was merely waiting for us humans - me in particular - to
catch up to it.)

The "UIN didn't award anyone a win" CFJ is 305, assigned to Dan.

The Voice's "Self-Repealing Rules" proposal is 306/0.
The Voice's "More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions" is 307/0.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:45:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Rule by Consent
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Rule by Consent__

Amend rule 13 by replacing its text with the following paragraph:

A player is any entity who is capable of passing the Turing test, consents
to said designation as a player, as become a player in the manner
described in the rules, and who consents to be goverened by the rules.

}}

I think we should establish the idea that the rules have authority
because players consent to follow them, not because of any merit of their
own.  This will make it easier to sort out judicial tangles arising from
such things as the statute of limitations and so forth.

Dan

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:48:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Judgement on CFJ 305
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Judgement on CFJ 305

Judge: Dan
Plaintiff: Bean 

Statement: Uncle Psychosis did not award emself a win, nor did he
award anyone else with a win, nor did he alter the text of rule 129.

Disputed Action by Uncle Psychosis, nweek 5, nday 1:

I award myself a win. I award a win to each player (other than myself) who
voted for proosal 277/1, in alphabetical order by name. I alter the text of
rule 129 to what it would be had proosal 277/1 passed.

Plaintiff's Analysis:  Awarding wins is regulated, as is changing rules.
Thus Rule 18 does not apply (precedent from CFJ 251).  Therefore Uncle
Psychosis doesn't get to do this.

Ruling: TRUE  

I agree with the plaintiff: Uncle Psycosis' actions are prohibited by the
rules.

Dan

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:57:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Rectifications
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Judges make typos too!__

Amend rule 255 by replacing the first instance of "proposal" with
"proposal, judgement, or other official document" and every other instance
of "proposal" with "document".

}}

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:59:25 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: The King Gremlin
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Help! Help! I'm being repressed!__

Create a new rule:
{{
__The violence inherent in the system__

There exists a Gremlin called the King Gremlin. If the King Gremlin is
Active, any player may pay 5+5*(the second Gremlin Number) points to Bribe
the King Gremlin. When the King Gremlin is Bribed, it Represses an Active
Gremlin of the Bribing player's choice. When a Gremlin is Repressed, it goes
into hiding and may not become Active again as long as it remains Repressed.
A Repressed Gremlin ceases to be Repressed 4 ndays after its Repression, or
whenever it is UnRepressed. This rule takes precedence over all rules which
define when Gremlins may become Active.

If the King Gremlin is Repressed by a player, all other Gremlins are
UnRepressed and the player who Bribed the King Gremlin loses 8 points.

If at any time at least 2/3 of all Gremlins other than the King Gremlin are
Hiding, the King Gremlin goes into Hiding. If at any time at least 2/3 of
all Gremlins other than the King Gremlin are Active, the King Gremlin
becomes Active, unless it is Repressed.

If at any time at least 2/3 of all Gremlins other than the King Gremlin are
Repressed, the Gremlins Revolt, all Gremlins are UnRepressed, and the King
Gremlin is Repressed.
}}

Amend the rule entitled "The Witch Gremlin" to add the following << >>
delimited text:
<< >>
If the Witch Gremlin is Repressed, all Cursed players cease to be Cursed,
and the player who Bribed the King Gremlin loses 5 points.
<< >>
}}

Rationale:
    Repression is fun. And it keeps those pesky Gremlins under control. I
clarified how things become UnRepressed, and I add Gremlin Revolts.

{{
__Fixing the PEG__
Replace the text of rule 261 with the following HUNGRY delimited text:
HUNGRY
There is a Gremlin named the "Proposal Ingesting Gremlin", or PIG.

If the PIG is Active at the beginning of the 9th day of each nweek, it will
eat the kth proposal on the ballot, as listed when sent out by the
Adminstrator, where k is equal to the nth Gremlin number, where n is the
number of proposals on the ballot.

Any proposal which is eaten by the PIG is immediately removed from the
ballot and has no effect.

If a Ballot is issued with fewer than 12 proposals on it, the PIG goes into
Hiding. At the beginning of each nweek, the PIG becomes Active.
HUNGRY
}}

Rationale:
    It's unclear exactly when things happen, and I think PIG is funnier than
PEG. I also don't think the PIG should eat off small ballots.

-- 
Wonko
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:38:22 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Precedence
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__I'm Higher on the Food Chain!__

Amend rule 33 to be:
{{
__Chutzpah__

Each Rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a positive integer. In
the event of a conflict between two or more rules, the rule with the highest
Chutzpah takes precedence.

If two or more rules have equal Chutzpah, the rule with the lowest
identification number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicity says of itself that it
defers to another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall
supersede the Chutzpah method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over each other or to defer to
one another, then the Chutzpah method again governs.

Whenever one section of a rule conflicts with another section of the same
rule, the section which appears later in the rule takes precedence over the
earlier section.
}}

Give all rules a Chutzpah of 1.

Amend rule 217 to add the text 'When these delimiters are used to delimit a
rule, they must be followed by a string of the form <<keywordlist,
Chutzpahvalue>>, where keywordlist is a list of words, and Chutzpahvalue is
a number. A rule defined this way shall automatically be assigned all
keywords in the keywordlist, if any, and has a Chutzpah of Chutzpahvalue.'
}}

Rationale:
We need a better way of doing precedence, and I think this will work. The
bit about the standard delimiters allows means that a rule followed by
<<(Gremlins, Pointsgained, Pointslost, Grid, FuzzyBunnies), 10>> has the
keywords Gremlins, Pointsgained, Pointslost, Grid, and FuzzyBunnies, and has
a Chutzpah of 10.

-- 
Wonko
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.

Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:07:48 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: A Hungrier PIG
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend my proposal to be:

{{
__Fixing the PEG__
Change rule 261 to be:
{{
__The PIG__

There is a Gremlin named the "Proposal Ingesting Gremlin", or PIG.

If the PIG is Active at the beginning of the 9th day of each nweek, it eats
the kth proposal on the ballot, when the proposals on the ballot are in
order of identification number, where k is equal to the nth Gremlin number,
where n is the number of proposals on the ballot. If this proposal contains
fewer than 30 words, then after eating it the PIG eats the kth proposal
again, where k is equal to the nth Gremlin number and n is the new number of
proposals on the ballot.

Any proposal which is eaten by the PIG is immediately removed from the
ballot and has no effect.

If a Ballot is issued with fewer than 12 proposals on it, the PIG goes into
Hiding. At the beginning of each nweek, the PIG becomes Active.
}}
}}

Rationale:
    Per Glotmorf's suggestion, the PIG now eats an extra proposal if the
first one was too small. I also fixed it so the kth proposal is picked
assuming the proposals are in order by number, because under the old way the
Admin could kill any proposal simply by sending the ballot out of order.

-- 
Wonko
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: proposal 306/0
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:15:25 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I hereby un-submit proposal 306/0 due to the overwhelming (well... scoff! 
and uin) bad vibes I got after it was proposed.  I now see its uselessness, 
and I will attempt to propose something a bit more useful.

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:18:32 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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> Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
>
No.

>Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
>
No.

>Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
>
No.

>Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
>
No.

>Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
>
No.

>Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
>
No.

>Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
>  >              (Congenital Optimist)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
>
No.

>Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
>
No.

>Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
>
No.

>Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
>
No.

>Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
>
No.

>Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
>
No.

>Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
>
Yes.

>Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
>             (gritter)
>
No.

>Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
>
No.

>Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
>
Yes.

uin.

DISCLAIMER: 
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<TITLE>RE: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5</TITLE>
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<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? =
(gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged =
(gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB =
(Bean)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol =
(gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting =
(Iain)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! =
(Iain)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, =
Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will =
Be Girls...and Drones</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Congenital Optimist)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin =
(Wonko)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business =
(Wonko)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 =
(Glotmorf)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)</=
FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the =
Price (Bean)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the =
Wall (Bean)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle =
Psychosis)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The =
Voice)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle =
Psychosis)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle =
Psychosis)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The =
Voice)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the =
Database was Lost (Glotmorf)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 =
(Glotmorf)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends =
than you, nyah nyah</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi =
(gritter)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">No.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. =
(Bean)</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">uin.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DISCLAIMER: </FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">This message is intended only for =
the use of the person(s) (&quot;the intended recipients(s)&quot;) to =
whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is&nbsp; =
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of =
applicable&nbsp; law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised =
that you have received this email in error and that any use, =
dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this message =
(including any attachments) is strictly prohibited.&nbsp; If you have =
received this message in error, please contact the sender of this =
message as soon as possible. </FONT></B></P>

<P><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The views or opinions expressed in =
this message are those of the author and may not necessarily be the =
views held by Azurgroup Limited </FONT></B></P>
<BR>

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:51:30 -0500
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 5
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth David E. Smith,

> 
> Proposal 245/0:Who the hell are you anyway? (gritter)
No
> Proposal 246/1:Ass kicking is encouraged (gritter)
No
> Proposal 247/0:The Clock was written in MATLAB (Bean)
No 
> Proposal 250/0:The Immunity Idol (gritter)
No
> Proposal 252/0:Limitation of Voting (Iain)
No
> Proposal 253/0:Power to the Gremlins! (Iain)
No
> Proposal 265/0:No Kickbacks (Justice, Administered Piecemeal) (Scoff!)
No
> Proposal 266/0:Verbosity Sux! (Scoff!)
No
> Proposal 267/1:Girls Will Be Boys and Boys Will Be Girls...and Drones
> (Congenital Optimist)
Yes
> Proposal 268/0:The Scoring Gremlin (Wonko)
YEA 
> Proposal 269/0:The Witch Gremlin (Wonko)
YEA 
> Proposal 270/0:Taking care of business (Wonko)
YEA 
> Proposal 271/1:N Heads are Better Than 1 (Glotmorf)
No
> Proposal 274/1:Once and for all... (The Voice)
No 
> Proposal 275/1:You Break the Law, You Pay the Price (Bean)
No 
> Proposal 276/2:We Can Only See Shadows On the Wall (Bean)
No
> Proposal 277/1:The dust you seldom see. (Uncle Psychosis)
No
> Proposal 278/0:Ehh... What the hell... (The Voice)
Yes
> Proposal 279/0:Walk unafraid. (Uncle Psychosis)
No
> Proposal 281/0:You can't even see. (Uncle Psychosis)
Yes
> Proposal 282/2:Generous Gremlins! (The Voice)
Yes 
> Proposal 283/0:For Want of an Index, the Database was Lost (Glotmorf)
Yes
> Proposal 285/0:Grammar Nitpick G1 (Glotmorf)
Yes
> Proposal 286/0:The Grid (gritter)
Yes
> Proposal 287/0:I've got more imaginary friends than you, nyah nyah
> (gritter)
Yes 
> Proposal 288/0:You can't avoid the Sushi (gritter)
Yes
> Proposal 289/0:... and I am my own king. (Bean)
No

I'm voting against a lot of things because they seem too complicated, and I
don't have time to figure them all out. I'd also like to point out that the
Bandwidth Gremlin, if it passes, gives the Token to the player not with the
most Yes votes, but with the most YEA votes. I would also like to point out
that my votes on my three proposals were not Yes votes, but YEA votes.
Unless someone else votes YEA for something, I should have the most YEA
votes.

-- 
Wonko
Recruit today night it feels.

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:10:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: the previous messages...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

... were the ballots of Uncle Psychosis and Wonko for the previous nweek.
This should satisfy the requirement that all votes be publicly disclosed,
but I can still scan in my ballot/records pages if anyone really wants
'em. (It's six or seven pages, each one will be about 500k.)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:47:02 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: The Pink Scarf
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

For eir ekthelent attention to detail in proposal 267, I award the Pink
Cashmere Thcarf of Impeccable Thtyle to Congenital Optimitht.

-- 
Rob Thpeer

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ 304 judgement
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:52:32 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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> Scoff!'s first CFJ was rescinded. Eir second CFJ is recognized as 304 and
> assigned to Uncle Psychosis.
>
Statement: The Proposal Eating Gremlin did not eat Proposal 270.  It ate
Proposal 283 instead.

Response: False.

Analysis:
The admin wrote:
"I claim that the votes were in fact counted, within the game state, and the
game state was merely waiting for us humans - me in particular - to catch up
to it."
and I can find nothing substantive to add to that.

uin.

DISCLAIMER: 
This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) ("the intended
recipients(s)") to whom it is addressed. It may contain information which is
privileged, proprietary and/or confidential within the meaning of applicable
law. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have
received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding,
printing or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this message in error, please contact the
sender of this message as soon as possible. 

The views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and
may not necessarily be the views held by Azurgroup Limited 

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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:50:24 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: The Chef Gremlin
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__The Chef Gremlin__

Create:

{{
__The Chef Gremlin__

There exists a Gremlin called the Chef Gremlin. If the Chef Gremlin is
Active, any player may, if e has proposed at least one proposal this nweek,
pay 8+3n points to the Chef Gremlin to have the Chef Gremlin Oversalt any
unprocessed proposal, where n is the number of unprocessed proposals that
are Oversalted. Whenever the PIG would eat an Oversalted proposal, it eats
the next proposal on the Ballot instead, unless there is no next proposal,
in which case it eats the first proposal on the Ballot. If fewer than 8
unprocessed proposals which have not been Oversalted exist, the Chef Gremlin
goes into hiding. If there are more than 10 unprocessed proposals which are
not Oversalted, the Chef Gremlin becomes Active.
}} <<(Gremlins, Proposals), 1>>
}}

Rationale: Hey, why not?

-- 
Wonko
Recruit today night it feels.

Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:56:09 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Another revision
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Amend the proposal 'I'm Higher on the Food Chain!' to be:

{{
__I'm Higher on the Food Chain!__

Amend rule 33 to be:
{{
__Chutzpah__

Each Rule has an attribute called Chutzpah, which is a positive integer. In
the event of a conflict between two or more rules, the rule with the highes=
t
Chutzpah takes precedence.

If two or more rules have equal Chutzpah, the rule with the lowest
identification number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicity says of itself that it
defers to another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall
supersede the Chutzpah method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over each other or to defer t=
o
one another, then the Chutzpah method again governs.

Whenever one section of a rule conflicts with another section of the same
rule, the section which appears later in the rule takes precedence over the
earlier section.
}}

Give all rules a Chutzpah of 1.

Amend rule 217 to add the text 'When these delimiters are used to delimit a
rule, they may be followed by a string of the form <<keywordlist,
Chutzpahvalue>>, where keywordlist is a list of words, and Chutzpahvalue is
a number. A rule defined this way shall automatically be assigned all
keywords in the keywordlist, if any, and has a Chutzpah of Chutzpahvalue. I=
f
<< and >> are not used in this way, the rule is assigned the keyword
uncategorized, and gets a Chutzpah of 1.'
}}

Rationale: I was going to force people using the standard delimiters to use
<< >> as well, but I just realized that if this passed, all other proposals
later on the Ballot would become illegal for not using it. Needless to say,
that would be Bad (although it would be pretty funny =AD only my proposals ar=
e
legal! :p ). It's optional now.

--=20
Wonko=20
Before speaking ill of someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you say it, they're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:21:58 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Grid Stuff
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Definitions&Pinball__

Create:
{{
__Grid Objects__

There exist objects called Grid Objects. A Grid Object is any object which
can occupy a square of the Grid. All Grid Objects must be either Mobile
Objects (MOs) or Stationary Objects (SOs), and must be either Impassable or
Passable.

A Grid Object is a MO if it is capable of making a Move. Otherwise, it is a
SO. A Move is a step between two consecutive squares. Two squares are
consecutive if both their x and y coordinates differ by no more than 1.

If a MO tries to Move to a square which cannot be moved to [[like if it
tries to move off the Grid, or into an Impassable object]], it Bounces and
Moves in the opposite direction instead.

If a Grid Object is Impassable, then no other Grid Object may enter the
square it occupies unless a rule explicit permits those two objects to
overlap.

All Grid Objects are Passable MOs unless otherwise specified.

Big Rocks, if they exist, are Impassable SOs.
}}

and

{{
__Pinball Guns__

Any player who does not have a Pinball Gun may buy one for 2 points. If a
player is on the Grid, and e has a Pinball Gun, e may Fire the Gun at any
square consecutive to eir position. If there is a MO in that square, that MO
moves twice in the direction opposite the one from which it was Fired at,
unless it Bounces, in which case it Moves in the opposite direction instead.
[[I have to include that in case something bounces as its first move, so it
will keep going in the bounced direction.]]
}}
}}

Rationale: The first part I think is just useful to have around. The second
part is fun. I do think parts of this are awkwardly phrased, though, and I'd
like to find a way to make things bounce off things realisticly (like
reverse only the x direction if it hits the walls while moving diagonally),
but I can't think of a good way to phrase that without making this far too
long. If anyone has any suggestions on how this could be better phrased,
please let me know.

-- 
Wonko
Recruit today night it feels.

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 17:56:31 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Modification to p303
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Replace the last paragraph of the rule created by proposal 303 with the=
 following text:

"If the calculated cost for the Big Rock is more points than the purchasing=
 Player has, or if a Big Rock cannot be placed in the location the=
 purchasing Player specified, the purchasing Player loses points up to and=
 including the cost of the Big Rock (not to exceed all eir points) and the=
 Big Rock is not purchased."

						Glotmorf

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:51:32 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ 284 judgement
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 284 reads:
---
  CFJ 251, that non-player entities' votes should count since they are
  not regulated as players, was judged false; the analysis included the
  following:

  "Rule 30, which reads "Each Player may cast exactly one vote on each
  proposal on any given Ballot.", serves to regulate the action of
  voting.  Since voting is thus regulated by the rules, non-player
  entities may only vote as specified by the rules. No rule specifies
  how a non-player entity should vote."

  In other words, if there is a rule that mentions how a given action is
  performed under certain circumstances, said action cannot be performed
  under any other circumstances.

  Yet, CFJ 249, that certain proposals that didn't use the Standard
  Delimiters from rule 217, was also judged false; the analysis included
  the following:

  "Rule 217 merely defines the standard delimeters; nowhere does it
  require that they are used."

  In other words, just because there is a rule that mentions how a given
  action is performed under certain circumstances, said action is not
  prevented from being performed under any other circumstances.

  These two judgments are contradictory; therefore one of them must be
  invalid.
---

I judge the statement to be FALSE.

Analysis: 

There is no reason to believe the judgements to be contradictory. The
justification given does not apply to CFJ 249, because Rule 217 does not
state how an action is performed. It states what certain character
sequences mean, and even includes the phrase "in Actions where they
appear", allowing for the possibility that they might not appear.

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:52:31 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Fixes
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Amend Definitions&Pinball to be:

{{
__Definitions&Pinball__

Create:
{{
__Grid Objects__

There exist objects called Grid Objects. A Grid Object is any object which
can occupy a square of the Grid. All Grid Objects must be either Mobile
Objects (MOs) or Stationary Objects (SOs), and must be either Impassable or
Passable.

A Grid Object is a MO if it is capable of making a Move. Otherwise, it is a
SO. A Move is a step between two consecutive squares. Two squares are
consecutive if both their x and y coordinates differ by no more than 1.

If a MO tries to Move to a square which cannot be moved to [[like if it
tries to move off the Grid, or into an Impassable object]], it Bounces and
moves the other way instead. If this is also impossible, it fails to Move.

If a Grid Object is Impassable, then no other Grid Object may enter the
square it occupies unless a rule explicitly permits those two objects to
overlap.

All Grid Objects are Passable MOs unless otherwise specified.

Big Rocks, if they exist, are Impassable SOs.
}}

and

{{
__Pinball Guns__

Any player who does not have a Pinball Gun may buy one for 2 points. If a
player is on the Grid, and e has a Pinball Gun, e may Fire the Gun at any
square consecutive to eir position. If there is a MO in that square, that MO
moves twice in the direction opposite the one from which it was Fired at,
unless it Bounces, in which case it Moves in the opposite direction instead.
[[I have to include that in case something bounces as its first move, so it
will keep going in the bounced direction.]]

When a player fires a Pinball Gun, e loses it.

}}
}}

Rationale: This fixes a typo, makes Pinball Guns only work once, and makes
it so that if a MO can't make its move or bounce the other way, it does
nothing (instead of bouncing back and forth indefinitely).

-- 
Wonko 
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be
warm for the rest of his life.

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:53:18 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Jingle Bells!
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend my proposal entitled 'The Chef Gremlin' to be:

{{
__Jingle Bells!__

Create:
{{
__The Yeti__

There exists an entity called the Yeti. The Yeti is a Passable MO. At the
beginning of the 1st and 6th days of each nweek, the Yeti will Move 8 times
in random directions. Whenever the Yeti moves out of a square, that square
becomes Frozen. Whenever a MO Moves into a Frozen square, it automatically
Moves again in the same direction it came from. Any square which has been
Frozen for at least 1 nweek immediately ceases to be Frozen.
}}
}}

Rationale: I think this is just fun.

As for the Chef Gremlin, it was stupid anyway.

-- 
Wonko
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam.

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:53:28 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Elbonian Airways
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__I'm Flying!__

Create:
{{
__Elbonian Airways__

Every square of the Grid which has x and y coordinates that are both
integral multiples of 6 is said to contain an Elbonian Airways. Elbonian
Airways are Passable SOs. If a player is in a square which contains an
Elbonian Airways, e may pay 2+2n points to be Thrown at any other square
which contains an Elbonian Airways, where n is the 5th Gremlin number. When
a player is Thrown at a square, eir becomes (x+a-3,y+b-3), where x and y are
the x and y coordinates of the square being Thrown at, and a and b are both
1d5. If a player, after being Thrown, ends up on a square which is occupied
by an Impassable Object, e loses 5 points [[for being injured in the
landing]] and is Thrown at that square.
}} <<(Grid, PointsLost), 2>>
}}

Rationale: Moving one square per nweek means we go really slow. This is a
way to cover large distances in a short period of time. However, if you fly
Elbonian, you can't specify exactly where you'll land, and if you hit a Big
Rock or some similar object, you might bounce around repeatedly before
hitting a vacant square.

-- 
Wonko 
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be
warm for the rest of his life.

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:25:43 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ -- Okay, but...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

CFJ 251, that non-player entities' votes should count since they are not=
 regulated as players, was judged false; the analysis included the=
 following:

"Rule 30, which reads "Each Player may cast exactly one vote on each=
 proposal on any given Ballot.", serves to regulate the action of voting.=
  Since voting is thus regulated by the rules, non-player entities may only=
 vote as specified by the rules. **No rule specifies how a non-player=
 entity should vote.**" [[Emphasis added.]]

In other words, if there is a rule that mentions how a given action is=
 performed under certain circumstances, said action cannot be performed=
 under any other circumstances, because of the absence of a rule that=
 controls those other circumstances.

Yet CFJ 133, which stated that a player had been successful in setting eir=
 score to a certain amount, was judged true; the analysis included the=
 following:

"If uin had only 'set his score' (as I did) the score would be overridden=
 as soon as score was defined to be the number of points. If he had=
 'transferred points' it would be regulated by the rules and thus illegal. 

"But he did neither. He simply _created_ the points, **which was not=
 regulated by the rules at all.**" [[Emphasis added.]]

In other words, just because there is a rule that mentions how a given=
 action is performed under certain circumstances, said action is not=
 prevented from being performed under any other circumstances, because of=
 the absence of a rule that controls those other circumstances.

These two judgments are contradictory; therefore one of them must be
invalid.

[[ I am still trying to determine the de facto policy for the game.  People=
 talk about things that are legal because the rules don't forbid them, yet=
 so many CFJs restrict action because there are rules that talk about=
 things done in a particular way.]]

						Glotmorf

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:31:10 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Regarding that last posting...
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Regarding the posting entitled "CFJ -- Okay, but...": that was intended to=
 be another CFJ.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:45:10 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: CFJ 304 judgement
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 1/25/02 at 3:52 PM Doig, Gavin wrote:

>> Scoff!'s first CFJ was rescinded. Eir second CFJ is recognized as 304
>and
>> assigned to Uncle Psychosis.
>>
>Statement: The Proposal Eating Gremlin did not eat Proposal 270.  It ate
>Proposal 283 instead.
>
>Response: False.
>
>Analysis:
>The admin wrote:
>"I claim that the votes were in fact counted, within the game state, and
>the
>game state was merely waiting for us humans - me in particular - to catch
>up
>to it."
>and I can find nothing substantive to add to that.
>
>uin.

Since this player is currently known as "Uncle Psychosis", and since "uin"=
 is not eir real name (as suggested by the email header), I must assume=
 "uin" is a title e is bestowing upon emself.  I therefore give Uncle=
 Psychosis a Kick in the Ass for using a title not recognized in the LON.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:13:08 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Revisions to p292
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mr. A, you didn't apply the first set of revisions I submitted for p292,=
 dated 1/24/2002  (as opposed to the second set of revisions I submitted=
 for p292, dated 1/24/2002).

S'okay.  Please apply these, the third set of revisions for p292, not dated=
 1/24/2002:

Change the title of the rule p292 is creating to "_The LoanShark Gremlin=
 (AKA Luigi)_".

Change the first paragraph of the rule p292 is creating to read as follows:

"There exists a Gremlin called the LoanShark Gremlin, also known as Luigi.=
  Luigi begins existence Active and with 100 points."

Add to the end of the rule p292 is creating the following paragraph:

"If at any time Luigi possesses no points and no Player has a nonzero Debt,=
 Luigi goes into Hiding.  Luigi becomes Active again if points are=
 transferred into his possession."

Thanks.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:53:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday morning)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Wow, looks like I've missed a lot of fun over the past couple days...

Dan's "Rule by Consent" is 308/0.

Dan's ruling on CFJ 305 is recorded.

Dan's "Judges make typos too!" is 309/0.

Wonko's "Help! Help! I'm being repressed!" is rectified (changing the
delimiters to things that aren't HTML. please don't do that.) and
recognized as 310/0.

Wonko's "Fixing the PEG" is 311/0.

Wonko's "Chutzpah" is rectified (please, for the love of God, don't use <<
or >> or <> or >< or any variant thereof for those delimiters. I changed
'em to [{ and }] for now, please come up with something better, unless
you feel like writing a text parser so I don't have to convert them all
by hand) and recognized as 312/0.

Wonko's revision to "Fixing the PEG" is 311/1.

For the time being, I'm not un-recognizing 306, because I don't think it's
supposed to be done. I made an error of judgment the one time I did it.
Feel free to replace it with a wholly different proposal...

The Pink Scarf has been transferred to Congenital Optimist, who receives 4
points and 15 Style points. (By the way, Optimist: By my count, which may
be in error, you received the Scarf on nweek 6, nday 2, so you're supposed
to do the "Jane Austen" schtick instead of the lisping schtick.)

Uncle Psychosis has ruled on CFJ 304. And I get quoted. w00t.

"The Chef Gremlin" is rectified (see HTML rant above) as 313/0.

The revision of "I'm Higher on the Food Chain" is 312/1.

"Definitions&Pinball" is 314/0.

Glotmorf's revision of 303 is recognized (303/1).

Rob's judgment on 284 is recorded.

"Definitions&Pinball" is revised as 314/1.

Man, I've gotta work out SOME way to ease the workload. I've been
cut'n'pasting for like half an hour. (Aside: please don't re-type your
whole proposal if you're only changing a few things. Just "change
paragraph X of this proposal to read 'foo'" is quite sufficient.)

"The Chef Gremlin" is revised into "Jingle Bells!" as 313/1.

"I'm Flying!" is rectified, html blah blah blah, 315/0.

Glotmorf's CFJ that I have no idea what the heck e is trying to do is
316, assigned to The Voice.

Rob delivers a Kick in the Ass to Uncle Psychosis. Ouch. Points and
Attributes assigned appropriately.

I've just invented a new shorthand: on the Roster, those temporary
attributes are listed like this:

Sore (nw7/nd4)

So I'll remember that the attribute in question goes away on nweek 7, nday
4. Just so you know what it means...

Glotmorf's revisions to Luigi are recognized as 292/2.

I hope that's all. If I missed something, let me know.

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:01:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Stuff I Overlooked!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Scoring Gremlin has gone into Hiding, as multiple players are tied for
the lowest score (zero).

I encourage all players to place themselves on The Grid at some point, and
to declare Genders. What's the point of my slowly developing an ulcer over
all these rules if they aren't being used?

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:03:05 -0500
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Stuff I Overlooked!
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth David E. Smith,

> I encourage all players to place themselves on The Grid at some point, and
> to declare Genders. What's the point of my slowly developing an ulcer over
> all these rules if they aren't being used?
> 
> ...dave

Alrighty, then, I put myself down at (15,8), and declare myself to be a
Drone.

I apologize for the HTML characters in my proposals. I forgot that the
greater than and less than signs were HTML thingies too. I amend all my
proposals to replace the characters '<<' and '>>' with '{*' and "*}'
everywhere they occur.

I also amend 315/0 to append the following to it:
'If a player, after being Thrown, ends up on a square which is off the Grid,
e Falls Off the Edge, or Falls. When a player Falls, e loses 10 points and
is Thrown at a random Square whose coordinates are both less than 15 but
greater than 5, unless e has not landed in a legal square since the last
time e Fell, in which case e loses 8 points and goes into Limbo.'

This takes care of people bouncing off the grid by throwing them back into
the center of the Grid. If you get thrown back in and immediately bounce out
again, you fall off completely and don't reappear.

-- 
Wonko 
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be
warm for the rest of his life.

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:05:02 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday morning)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 1/27/02 at 9:53 AM David E. Smith wrote:

>Rob delivers a Kick in the Ass to Uncle Psychosis. Ouch. Points and
>Attributes assigned appropriately.

Mr. A...I believe that Kick in the Ass was delivered by me, not Rob.

						Glotmorf

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:07:54 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday morning)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 1/27/02 at 12:05 PM Donald Whytock wrote:

>On 1/27/02 at 9:53 AM David E. Smith wrote:
>
>>Rob delivers a Kick in the Ass to Uncle Psychosis. Ouch. Points and
>>Attributes assigned appropriately.
>
>Mr. A...I believe that Kick in the Ass was delivered by me, not Rob.
>
>						Glotmorf

Never mind...I see it was scored right.  Thanks.

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:45:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: New Proposal - LOGAS
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Cheaters WILL be punished!__

Add the following item to the List of Generally Abhorred Stuff:
{{
Attempting to award ones self a win, when such an award is found by CFJ to
be illegal.
}}
}}

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:17:19 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Call For Judgment: Awarding of the Token of Proposals
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 06:01 PM 1/24/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Wonko: Though I obviously disagree with your interpretation of Rule 299,
>it seems I've no choice but to go with it. (It's one of those "letter of
>the law" versus "spirit of the law" things which I abhor.)
>
>The Token of Proposals is reluctantly given to Wonko.

Call For Judgment:

Defendant: Wonko

Statement:

"Given that
(a) the word 'yea' is synonymous with 'yes' or any affirmative indication
(b) the spirit of the law and game custom indicates that 'yea' should be 
interpreted as 'yes' or any affirmative indication
then the Token of Proposals is not awarded to Wonko since he did not 
receive the most affirmative votes."

Thus submitted.

--gritter

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:20:52 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: The Stuff I Overlooked!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I declare that I am male, and put myself on the grid at (4, 2).

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:40:35 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Greg Ritter <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Sex & the Grid (starring Sarah Jessica Nomic)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I declare myself a Male.

I enter the Grid at (10,10)

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:10:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Sunday evening)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Wonko is a Drone, and has entered The Grid.

Wonko's proosals are informally rectified to replace the weird punctuation
with {* and *} respectively. (Thank you, btw.) Eir revision of 315/0 is
recognized (315/1).

308 is rectified "as" -> "has", per Dan.

"Cheaters WILL be punished!" is 317/0.

gritter's "Token of Proposals" CFJ is 318, assigned to Joerg.

Rob is Male, and has entered The Grid.

gritter is Male, and has entered The Grid.

Note that the "at the end of an nweek" stipulation only covers moves *on*
the Grid, not moves *into* the Grid (i.e. from a state of Limbo)...

gritter sees a flash of shiny light, and mysteriously gains 25 points. You
may infer from that what you wish.

The Grid has a Web page now. It's a simple, sparse page, but it
communicates the necessary information. (The rules don't seem to say
anything about limiting visibility, except for the special case of Shiny
Things and Scary Dark Things.)

While I'm exercising administrative privilege: 126/3 is rectified (change
"recinds" to "rescinds"), as is 205/1 (change "Abscence" to "Absence").

Someone owes me a new toner cartridge - the ruleset is up to 18 pages.
(I'm still hoping someone will make that "Administrative Bribery"
proposal... :)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:26:32 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Administrative Abilities
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, as long as I've got an extra proposal, I might as well use it...

{{
__Broadening Horizons__

Create a new rule as follows:

{{
__A Little Fun For Everyone__

The Administrator may make proposals as though e were a player. The
Administrator shall not be subject to Bandwidth Rationing, or any other
means of limiting the number or type of proposals which may be made.
Instead, the Administrator shall be limited to one proposal per nweek.
[[ Just so things don't get out of control... ]]

If the Administrator gains or loses points as a result of any change in
the game state, including but not limited to the passage or failure of
proposals, those points shall instead be awarded to/taken from the Scoring
Gremlin.
}}

Amend rule 296 to replace the number 30 with 20, replace the words ' or the
player with the lowest score has at most 10 fewer points than any other
player,' with ' or the Scoring Gremlin has no Points,', add the words 'with
a nonzero score and the Scoring Gremlin has at least 5 points,' after the
words 'other player' in the last sentence, replace 'fewest points' with
'lowest score' in the 2nd sentence, then replace 'lowest score' with 'lowes=
t
nonzero score' everywhere it occurs.

[[If I did this right, it will end up looking like this:
"There exists a Gremlin known as the Scoring Gremlin. Whenever a proposal i=
s
recognized, if the Scoring Gremlin is Active, it shall award the player wit=
h
the lowest nonzero score 1 point. If at any time multiple players are tied
for the lowest nonzero score, or the Scoring Gremlin has no Points, the
Scoring Gremlin shall go into Hiding. If the player with the lowest nonzero
score has at least 20 fewer points than any other player with a nonzero
score and the Scoring Gremlin has at least 5 points, the Scoring Gremlin
shall become Active."
]]

Finally, add the following:

"Players may give points to the Scoring Gremlin in the same manner as
giving points to other players. [[ It's like charity, only different. ]]

The Scoring Gremlin initially has 100 Points. This paragraph shall then be
deleted from the rules [[ for cleanliness ]].'

}}

Rationale: It was Dave's idea.
I also changed the Score Gremlin so it only helps those who help emselves =AD
you must already have at least 1 point to profit from it (that way new
players don't scare it away).

I also request that Mr. Admin rectify numerous people's proposals because
the Standard Delimiter for a title is TWO underdashes, and a couple of
proposals have only used one.

--=20
Wonko=20
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be
warm for the rest of his life.

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:25:08 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Administrative Abilities
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I also request that Mr. Admin rectify numerous people's proposals because
>the Standard Delimiter for a title is TWO underdashes, and a couple of
>proposals have only used one.
>
>-- 
>Wonko 

According to The Voice's judgment on my CFJ, the Standard Delimiters are=
 optional.  If someone delimits eir rule title with single underscores=
 rather than double underscores, it means e has opted to not use the=
 Standard Delimiters; it is NOT a typo.  Therefore I would object to the=
 application of Rule 255 to any proposal, other than those submitted by=
 Wonko, in order to render single underscores into double underscores.

						Glotmorf

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 01:08:02 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Grid action
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm going to toss the Scoring Gremlin onto the Grid.  I'm not particularly=
 picky about where it lands.

If I am required to be picky about where it lands, let's make it (1,1).

Four hundred units, eh?

						Glotmorf

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:29:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Grid
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I *buzz* enter the Grid at *crackle* (5,10) and *bzzt* declare
myself to be *craaackle* a Drone.

-Congenital Optimist
*crackle*

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"don't you know there ain't no devil
 there's just god when he's drunk"
 (Tom Waits "Heartattack and Vine")

From: "Doig, Gavin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:04:53 -0000
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C1A82E.AAE9DE20
Content-Type: text/plain

<proosal>
<title>Why? Because I'm a cave man.</title>
<body>
Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following
MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement
about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered what
they would be had that statement been true at the time it was made, unless
in the intervening time any player objects to the statement in a Public
Forum, in which case the usual methods for determining the current rules and
game state shall apply.

This rule takes precedence over all other rules.
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
[[Fitter, happier, not broken so much.]]
</body>
</proosal>

uin.
Oh, and I give 3 points to each of the other players who voted for P277.

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------_=_NextPart_000_01C1A82E.AAE9DE20--

From: "Gavin Doig" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:48:00 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Proosal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I submit the following proosal:
<proosal>
<title>The only card I need.</title>
<body>
@@@
Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered what they would be had that statement been true at the time it was made, unless in the intervening time any player objects to the statement in a Public Forum, in which case the usual methods for determining the current rules and game state shall apply.

This rule takes precedence over all other rules.
MONUMENTOFGRANITE
[[Kinder, gentler, more seductive.]]
@@@
</body>
</proosal>

uin.
Oh, and I give 1 point to each of the other players who voted for proosal 277!
-- 

_______________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:47:32 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Proosal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Reposting this to the business forum.

						Glotmorf

On 1/28/02 at 6:46 PM Donald Whytock wrote:

>On 1/28/02 at 7:04 PM Doig, Gavin wrote:
>
>><proosal>
>><title>Why? Because I'm a cave man.</title>
>><body>
>>Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following
>>MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
>>MONUMENTOFGRANITE
>>2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement
>>about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered
>>what
>>they would be had that statement been true at the time it was made,=
 unless
>>in the intervening time any player objects to the statement in a Public
>>Forum, in which case the usual methods for determining the current rules
>>and
>>game state shall apply.
>>
>>This rule takes precedence over all other rules.
>>MONUMENTOFGRANITE
>>[[Fitter, happier, not broken so much.]]
>></body>
>></proosal>
>>
>>uin.
>>Oh, and I give 3 points to each of the other players who voted for P277.
>
>I'm giving Uncle Psychosis a second kick for the second occurrence of the
>same offense.
>
>						Glotmorf
>					Go ahead.  Make my quota.

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:49:15 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Proosal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On 1/28/02 at 1:48 PM Gavin Doig wrote:

>I submit the following proosal:
><proosal>
><title>The only card I need.</title>
><body>
>@@@
>Amend rule 129 by replacing the current text with the following
>MONUMENTOFGRANITE-delimited text:
>MONUMENTOFGRANITE
>2 Nweeks after the Administrator, in a Public Forum, makes any statement
>about the rules or game state, the rules and gamestate shall be altered
>what they would be had that statement been true at the time it was made,
>unless in the intervening time any player objects to the statement in a
>Public Forum, in which case the usual methods for determining the current
>rules and game state shall apply.
>
>This rule takes precedence over all other rules.
>MONUMENTOFGRANITE
>[[Kinder, gentler, more seductive.]]
>@@@
></body>
></proosal>
>
>uin.
>Oh, and I give 1 point to each of the other players who voted for proosal
>277!

I give Uncle Psychosis a third kick, for the third occurrence of the same=
 offense.

						Glotmorf

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:29:28 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Let's do it right this time.
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Oops. I guess I miscounted. Sorry, Dave, but I don't propose the
Administrative Abilities proposal 'cause I've already made 6. My mistake.

Also, I amend all of my proposals to add the sentence:

'Remove the sentence "Each Gremlin shall have a Bank Account." from rule
256.'

Ha. The Eater Gremlin can't get me now.

-- 
Wonko
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:15:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday morning)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Voice has (sorta) ruled on CFJ 316.
The Voice has selected a Gender, and has entered The Grid.
"Wait, can I take that back?" is 306/1.

Under "Permissibility of the Unprohibited," Glotmorf gives the Scoring
Gremlin a good shove. It lands at (13,4). (Since e said e wasn't too picky
about where the Gremlin landed, I rolled randomly. Mind you, unless/until
someone writes rules or AI for the Gremlins, he'll probably just sit
there...)

Congenital Optimist declares a Gender and enters the Grid.

Uncle Psychosis' "Why? Because I'm a cave man." is 319/0.
Uncle Psychosis' "The only card I need." is 320/0.
Uncle Psychosis gives 4 points to Iain and Bean (the two players who voted
for eir Proposal 277 - 3 points each in one message, 1 point each in the
other).

Wonko, on a mad quest to eradicate Bank Accounts, makes the following
revisions: 310/1, 311/2, 312/2, 313/2, 314/2, 315/2. (Wonko correctly
noticed that e ran out of proosals, which is why eir last proosal isn't
being recognized. Shame, that. I thought it was a stylish and well-written
proposal. ;)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:39:57 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Another grid action
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm now going to toss Rule 1 onto the grid.  Note that this does not in any=
 way change Rule 1; it only changes the grid, in that it now contains Rule=
 1.

I'm not picky about where Rule 1 lands either, except that the location=
 should be vacant.

						Glotmorf

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:54:09 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Glotmorf's Wonderful World of Bizarre/Irrational CFJs
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay...I'm beginning to pick up on the mindset in our little nomiverse here=
 (which I define to include the players and their opinions, but not=
 necessarily the opinions of non-players, who, after all, if they wanted=
 their opinions to count so badly, could damn well play), and therefore=
 think that in order to explore my philosophical concern in a meaningful=
 manner I must take a somewhat different approach.

I therefore submit the following two CFJs:

	*	*	*	*	*	*	*

Statement: It is legal for me to kill the Witch Gremlin.

Rationale: Rule 18 says that anything not regulated in the rules is=
 permitted.  There is nothing that discusses the murder, or even the death,=
 of Gremlins; therefore my action is unregulated and permitted.

	*	*	*	*	*	*	*

Statement: It is illegal for me to kill the Witch Gremlin.

Rationale: Rule 18 says that anything not regulated in the rules is=
 permitted.  However, there are rules that discuss the creation and=
 behavior patterns of Gremlins; hence, a Gremlin's existence is regulated.=
  Therefore, anything that affects the existence of a Gremlin, such as its=
 murder, requires a specific rule permitting it.

	*	*	*	*	*	*	*

Note that these are two separate CFJs, so I'd assume they'd be judged=
 separately and independently of each other.

						Glotmorf

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:34:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Grid Stuff etc.
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I declare myself to be a drone and I enter the Grid at 12,14.

[[I should probably apologise in advance to the admin for this next
bit but I really want to see what happens...]]

I toss the following very real but entirely unregulated entities onto the
Grid. I'm not particularly picky about their location:

Bob's Clone 1
Bob's Clone 2
Bob's Clone 3
Bob's Clone 4
Bob's Clone 5
Bob's Clone 6
Bob's Clone 7
Bob's Clone 8
Bob's Clone 9
Bob's Clone 10
Bob's Clone 11
Bob's Clone 12
Bob's Clone 13
Bob's Clone 14
Bob's Clone 15
Bob's Clone 16
Bob's Clone 17
Bob's Clone 18
Bob's Clone 19
Bob's Clone 20
Bob's Clone 21
Bob's Clone 22
Bob's Clone 23
Bob's Clone 24
Bob's Clone 25
Bob's Clone 26
Bob's Clone 27
Bob's Clone 28
Bob's Clone 29
Bob's Clone 30
Bob's Clone 31
Bob's Clone 32
Bob's Clone 33
Bob's Clone 34
Bob's Clone 35
Bob's Clone 36
Bob's Clone 37
Bob's Clone 38
Bob's Clone 39
Bob's Clone 40
Bob's Clone 41
Bob's Clone 42
Bob's Clone 43
Bob's Clone 44
Bob's Clone 45
Bob's Clone 46
Bob's Clone 47
Bob's Clone 48
Bob's Clone 49
Bob's Clone 50
Bob's Clone 51
Bob's Clone 52
Bob's Clone 53
Bob's Clone 54
Bob's Clone 55
Bob's Clone 56
Bob's Clone 57
Bob's Clone 58
Bob's Clone 59
Bob's Clone 60
Bob's Clone 61
Bob's Clone 62
Bob's Clone 63
Bob's Clone 64
Bob's Clone 65
Bob's Clone 66
Bob's Clone 67
Bob's Clone 68
Bob's Clone 69
Bob's Clone 70
Bob's Clone 71
Bob's Clone 72
Bob's Clone 73
Bob's Clone 74
Bob's Clone 75
Bob's Clone 76
Bob's Clone 77
Bob's Clone 78
Bob's Clone 79
Bob's Clone 80
Bob's Clone 81
Bob's Clone 82
Bob's Clone 83
Bob's Clone 84
Bob's Clone 85
Bob's Clone 86
Bob's Clone 87
Bob's Clone 88
Bob's Clone 89
Bob's Clone 90
Bob's Clone 91
Bob's Clone 92
Bob's Clone 93
Bob's Clone 94
Bob's Clone 95
Bob's Clone 96
Bob's Clone 97
Bob's Clone 98
Bob's Clone 99
Bob's Clone 100
Bob's Clone 101
Bob's Clone 102
Bob's Clone 103
Bob's Clone 104
Bob's Clone 105
Bob's Clone 106
Bob's Clone 107
Bob's Clone 108
Bob's Clone 109
Bob's Clone 110
Bob's Clone 111
Bob's Clone 112
Bob's Clone 113
Bob's Clone 114
Bob's Clone 115
Bob's Clone 116
Bob's Clone 117
Bob's Clone 118
Bob's Clone 119
Bob's Clone 120
Bob's Clone 121
Bob's Clone 122
Bob's Clone 123
Bob's Clone 124
Bob's Clone 125
Bob's Clone 126
Bob's Clone 127
Bob's Clone 128
Bob's Clone 129
Bob's Clone 130
Bob's Clone 131
Bob's Clone 132
Bob's Clone 133
Bob's Clone 134
Bob's Clone 135
Bob's Clone 136
Bob's Clone 137
Bob's Clone 138
Bob's Clone 139
Bob's Clone 140
Bob's Clone 141
Bob's Clone 142
Bob's Clone 143
Bob's Clone 144
Bob's Clone 145
Bob's Clone 146
Bob's Clone 147
Bob's Clone 148
Bob's Clone 149
Bob's Clone 150
Bob's Clone 151
Bob's Clone 152
Bob's Clone 153
Bob's Clone 154
Bob's Clone 155
Bob's Clone 156
Bob's Clone 157
Bob's Clone 158
Bob's Clone 159
Bob's Clone 160
Bob's Clone 161
Bob's Clone 162
Bob's Clone 163
Bob's Clone 164
Bob's Clone 165
Bob's Clone 166
Bob's Clone 167
Bob's Clone 168
Bob's Clone 169
Bob's Clone 170
Bob's Clone 171
Bob's Clone 172
Bob's Clone 173
Bob's Clone 174
Bob's Clone 175
Bob's Clone 176
Bob's Clone 177
Bob's Clone 178
Bob's Clone 179
Bob's Clone 180
Bob's Clone 181
Bob's Clone 182
Bob's Clone 183
Bob's Clone 184
Bob's Clone 185
Bob's Clone 186
Bob's Clone 187
Bob's Clone 188
Bob's Clone 189
Bob's Clone 190
Bob's Clone 191
Bob's Clone 192
Bob's Clone 193
Bob's Clone 194
Bob's Clone 195
Bob's Clone 196
Bob's Clone 197
Bob's Clone 198
Bob's Clone 199
Bob's Clone 200
Bob's Clone 201
Bob's Clone 202
Bob's Clone 203
Bob's Clone 204
Bob's Clone 205
Bob's Clone 206
Bob's Clone 207
Bob's Clone 208
Bob's Clone 209
Bob's Clone 210
Bob's Clone 211
Bob's Clone 212
Bob's Clone 213
Bob's Clone 214
Bob's Clone 215
Bob's Clone 216
Bob's Clone 217
Bob's Clone 218
Bob's Clone 219
Bob's Clone 220
Bob's Clone 221
Bob's Clone 222
Bob's Clone 223
Bob's Clone 224
Bob's Clone 225
Bob's Clone 226
Bob's Clone 227
Bob's Clone 228
Bob's Clone 229
Bob's Clone 230
Bob's Clone 231
Bob's Clone 232
Bob's Clone 233
Bob's Clone 234
Bob's Clone 235
Bob's Clone 236
Bob's Clone 237
Bob's Clone 238
Bob's Clone 239
Bob's Clone 240
Bob's Clone 241
Bob's Clone 242
Bob's Clone 243
Bob's Clone 244
Bob's Clone 245
Bob's Clone 246
Bob's Clone 247
Bob's Clone 248
Bob's Clone 249
Bob's Clone 250
Bob's Clone 251
Bob's Clone 252
Bob's Clone 253
Bob's Clone 254
Bob's Clone 255
Bob's Clone 256
Bob's Clone 257
Bob's Clone 258
Bob's Clone 259
Bob's Clone 260
Bob's Clone 261
Bob's Clone 262
Bob's Clone 263
Bob's Clone 264
Bob's Clone 265
Bob's Clone 266
Bob's Clone 267
Bob's Clone 268
Bob's Clone 269
Bob's Clone 270
Bob's Clone 271
Bob's Clone 272
Bob's Clone 273
Bob's Clone 274
Bob's Clone 275
Bob's Clone 276
Bob's Clone 277
Bob's Clone 278
Bob's Clone 279
Bob's Clone 280
Bob's Clone 281
Bob's Clone 282
Bob's Clone 283
Bob's Clone 284
Bob's Clone 285
Bob's Clone 286
Bob's Clone 287
Bob's Clone 288
Bob's Clone 289
Bob's Clone 290
Bob's Clone 291
Bob's Clone 292
Bob's Clone 293
Bob's Clone 294
Bob's Clone 295
Bob's Clone 296
Bob's Clone 297
Bob's Clone 298
Bob's Clone 299
Bob's Clone 300
Bob's Clone 301
Bob's Clone 302
Bob's Clone 303
Bob's Clone 304
Bob's Clone 305
Bob's Clone 306
Bob's Clone 307
Bob's Clone 308
Bob's Clone 309
Bob's Clone 310
Bob's Clone 311
Bob's Clone 312
Bob's Clone 313
Bob's Clone 314
Bob's Clone 315
Bob's Clone 316
Bob's Clone 317
Bob's Clone 318
Bob's Clone 319
Bob's Clone 320
Bob's Clone 321
Bob's Clone 322
Bob's Clone 323
Bob's Clone 324
Bob's Clone 325
Bob's Clone 326
Bob's Clone 327
Bob's Clone 328
Bob's Clone 329
Bob's Clone 330
Bob's Clone 331
Bob's Clone 332
Bob's Clone 333
Bob's Clone 334
Bob's Clone 335
Bob's Clone 336
Bob's Clone 337
Bob's Clone 338
Bob's Clone 339
Bob's Clone 340
Bob's Clone 341
Bob's Clone 342
Bob's Clone 343
Bob's Clone 344
Bob's Clone 345
Bob's Clone 346
Bob's Clone 347
Bob's Clone 348
Bob's Clone 349
Bob's Clone 350
Bob's Clone 351
Bob's Clone 352
Bob's Clone 353
Bob's Clone 354
Bob's Clone 355
Bob's Clone 356
Bob's Clone 357
Bob's Clone 358
Bob's Clone 359
Bob's Clone 360
Bob's Clone 361
Bob's Clone 362
Bob's Clone 363
Bob's Clone 364
Bob's Clone 365
Bob's Clone 366
Bob's Clone 367
Bob's Clone 368
Bob's Clone 369
Bob's Clone 370
Bob's Clone 371
Bob's Clone 372
Bob's Clone 373
Bob's Clone 374
Bob's Clone 375
Bob's Clone 376
Bob's Clone 377
Bob's Clone 378
Bob's Clone 379
Bob's Clone 380
Bob's Clone 381
Bob's Clone 382
Bob's Clone 383
Bob's Clone 384
Bob's Clone 385
Bob's Clone 386
Bob's Clone 387
Bob's Clone 388
Bob's Clone 389
Bob's Clone 390
Bob's Clone 391
Bob's Clone 392
Bob's Clone 393
Bob's Clone 394
Bob's Clone 395
Bob's Clone 396
Bob's Clone 397
Bob's Clone 398
Bob's Clone 399
Bob's Clone 400

Dan

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:12:00 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rule 10 has NOT been repealed, unless you have a much more entertaining
definition of rule 18/1 than I do. To the best of my knowledge, no rule
explicitly or implicitly permits any player to single-handedly and
unilaterally declare that a rule has been repealed. (I expect someone to
CFJ it, rule 129 be damned, anyway. :)

Rules aren't game objects in any direct sense of the word, so I'm also
ruling that Rule 1 has not in fact been lobbed onto The Grid.

The latest entries in "World's Most Unfathomable CFJs" are:
321, assigned to Bean
322, assigned to Antonio

Bob's Clones aren't game objects, so they're not being shotgunned onto The
Grid. Should a subsequent CFJ rule that they are, in fact, on The Grid,
then the choke of Dan's shotgun was sufficiently tuned that each of them
lands in a different space. Clone 1 will have landed at (1,1), 2 at
(1,2)... 400 at (20,20).

Man, with all these iron-fisted declarations I've been making, maybe we
should just repeal the whole justice system and replace it all with "The
Velvet-Gloved Vigilante".  :-)

Proposals for the current nweek are due in a little more than a day - just
under 28 hours as I write this. If you still have a few of 'em available,
send 'em in!

Wholly unrelated question to anyone that might know: How, if at all, can
the Galeon browser be persuaded to print pages in landscape instead of
portrait? I have a password-protected Web page that displays the location
of everything on The Grid, including Shinies and Scaries, but it always
chops off the last one or two columns, and it kinda annoys me. :)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:16:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karin L. Kross" <[email-masked]>
To: B Nomic Business <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: big stick
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

More fun with the *buzz* grid...

Create *bzzt* a new rule defined as follow*crackle*s:

{{
__i said i've got a big stick__

*buzz* The Grid contains an object called the big stick.  The big
stick *crackle* enters the Grid at a random location determined
by the admin.  The location is then made public. *crackle* If a
player's movement brings em into the same square as the big
stick, e may pick up the *buzz* stick or leave it.

When a Player picks up the big *buzz* stick, e may use it to
administer a Whack to a Player or a Gremlin in an adjacent
square.  After *crackle* administering the Whack, the big stick
vanishes from the Player's possession and *buzz* reappears at a
random location on the grid.

When *crackle* a Player receives a Whack, e is knocked two *buzz*
squares away from the Player with the big stick.  The Player with
the big stick determines the direction. *buzz* The Player who has
been hit receives the attribute Dizzy, *crackle* which lasts
until the end of the nweek.

When a Gremlin receives a Whack, it is knocked off the *buzz*
Grid and *crackle* receives the attribute Dizzy.  It may be
placed on the Grid again after the end of the current nweek.

The big stick may not be thrown.*crackle*

If *buzz* a player carrying the big stick passes up two
opportunities to adminster a Whack to a Player or a Gremlin, the
big stick *crackle* vanishes and reappears on the grid as
described above.

}}

--Congenital *crackle* Optimist

-- 
[email-masked] | http://seishonagon.org
"don't you know there ain't no devil
 there's just god when he's drunk"
 (Tom Waits "Heartattack and Vine")

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:33:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ Bob's Clone Objects
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Bob's Clones aren't game objects, so they're not being shotgunned onto The
> Grid. Should a subsequent CFJ rule that they are, in fact, on The Grid,
> then the choke of Dan's shotgun was sufficiently tuned that each of them
> lands in a different space. Clone 1 will have landed at (1,1), 2 at
> (1,2)... 400 at (20,20).
I Submit the following CFG:

Statement: The Bob's Clone Objects are on the grid.

My reasoning:
1.  There are no rules regulating the position of Bob's Clones.  By
permissibility of the unprohibited we players can do whatever we like with
them.

2.  We already have established an administrative, if not judicial,
precedent that unregulated objects can be placed on the grid.  There is no
rule that specifies how Gremlins should interact with the Grid, but
Gremlins may be placed on to the Grid.

I would like to note that I can't see any real reason why my creations
should be recorded at present time.  After all, there is no rule that
keeps other players from removing them at will.  Mostly I wanted to
illustrate the potential loophole in the rules.  This might become a more
pressing issue once the Grid system becomes more complicated.

Dan

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:37:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Hopefully completely fathomable CFJ: spoon-discuss: Re: Proosal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Statement: (1)  This CFJ is permited by the rule 129, (2)  and
Rule 10 is not repealed. 
Analysis: As regard to point (2) ,Rule 18 states that deletion of a rule
is not permited and unregulated, and hence is regulated (or arguably,
 prohibited, but in this case, we couldnt delete any rules!).
Rule 11 states that "the ruleset can only be changed as provided
therein", and as the ruleset does not provide for
rule changes by players using non-proposal actions (e.g. Uncle Psychosis
post sig "action"), no change occoured, and hence no action actually
happened, hence Rule 129 (the statute of limitations) did not kick in
(it states that player actions which _happened_ become legal) hence this
CFJ is permitted (which deals with point (1)) 
Admitedly, that is a slightly circular argument, but the best I could do
at this time of night.

cheers,
Iain

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Gavin Doig
wrote:

> > <proosal>
> > <title>You can't even see.</title>
> > <body>
> > Amend rule 212, if it exists, by
> > replacing "three" with "5".
> > [[If 266 fails, at least we'll have an 
> > alternative.]]
> > </body>
> > </proosal>
> >
> > uin.
> > I repeal rule 10!
> >
> It's now been (over) an nweek since I performed the above actions. Therefore, they are considered to be legal (by rule 129), and rule 10 is no more (or possibly has been no more since then, but it doesn't matter at the moment which).
> 
> Possible reasons for this to fail:
> CFJ136 - not relevant, as that CFJ was submitted and judged *before* the statute kicked in.
> R152 - it *is* permitted by the rules (specifically, r129 permits it).
> The fact that my action came after my signature - there's nothing to prohibit this, and we have the precedent of the admin recognising my point transfers of yesterday, which also came after my sig. What a convenient coincidence ;-)
> 
> uin.
> -- 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> 
> Win a ski trip!
> http://www.nowcode.com/register.asp?affiliate=1net2phone3a
> 
> 
> 

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:41:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: ID Scott <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: while I am about it
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I declare my gender as Drone. I enter the grid at (11,12).

cheers,
Iain

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:12:12 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Giant Hamster Balls
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

[[This proposal is not as demented as the subject line makes it sound.]]

[[I realize that this proposal does a bunch of calculations, which I
don't necessarily want to inflict on Dave - if necessary, I could write
a script which would input each player's Dimensions and calculate the
effects. And I think this is generally more fun than Property.]]

I propose:

__The Rat Race__
{{
1. Change all occurrences of the term 'Distance' in the current ruleset
to 'Displacement'. [[This frees up a useful term and makes it more
technically correct.]]

2. Create a rule: __Distance__
{{
The Distance between one player and another is calculated as the square
root of (the sum of (the square of each of (the difference between one
player's value and the other's, in each Dimension))).
}}

3. Create a rule: __Hamster Balls__
{{
A Giant Hamster Ball is a game object. Any player (but not a non-Player)
may state eir desire to equip emself with a Giant Hamster Ball by
posting a message to a Public Forum.

At the end of an nweek, after scores have been calculated, if a player
has stated that e wants a Giant Hamster Ball, then eir score is lowered
to the highest multiple of 20 Points which is less than the score.
[[The places in the Dimensions where you can get Hamster Balls occur
only every 20 points.]] Then that player is given the Giant Hamster Ball
and is no longer considered to want one.

The Giant Hamster Ball (GHB) surrounds the player who owns it at a
radius of 5 units. If a player with a GHB has a Displacement [[from the
Origin]] of less than 10, however, the ball is shattered by a mysterious
force and ceases to exist before any effects of GHBs are calculated.

At the end of an nweek, after Dimension changes have taken place, these
effects are calculated for all Players, in order by increasing
Displacement:

1. If a player without a GHB has a distance of 5 or less from a player
with a GHB, the former player has been Run Over by the Hamster Ball.
This player has eir Dimensions recalculated, such that they have changed
by only half as much as they otherwise would have. If there is another
player with a GHB within a distance of 5 from that new location, this
step is repeated. The player's Speed and Displacement are adjusted
accordingly.

[[ For example, a player who got +1 Activity, +18 Score, and -2 Charm
but got Run Over would instead get +0.5 Activity, +9 Score, and -1
Charm. The effect of this is that you didn't actually get to your
destination, because you were Run Over on the way.]]

2. If a player with a GHB has a distance of 10 or less from another
player with a GHB, then both players have Collided. A Dimension and one
of the two players are picked randomly, and the selected player gains 5
in that Dimension while the other loses 5. Then, for each of the two
GHBs, there is a 50% chance that it is destroyed in the collision.

[[ When two GHBs run into each other, the players bounce off in a random
direction, and the GHBs may be destroyed. ]]
}}

}}
-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:10:18 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: This seems an appropriate time.....
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

..... to do the following.

I declare myself to be a Drone.

The Admin wrote:
>Under "Permissibility of the Unprohibited," Glotmorf gives the Scoring
>Gremlin a good shove. It lands at (13,4). (Since e said e wasn't too picky
>about where the Gremlin landed, I rolled randomly. Mind you, unless/until
>someone writes rules or AI for the Gremlins, he'll probably just sit
>there...)

Not so fast.....

I enter the Grid at (13, 4).

I pick up the Scoring Gremlin.  (This ought to be fun :-)

Bean

From: Antonio <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: More Grid
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 01:19:33 +0100
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I enter the grid at (18, 16)
--=20
Antonio

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL(S)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:23:01 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, it being the end of the proposing period, I'd best get my act 
together.  Here are some proposals/revisions.

First of all,
{{
Amend proposal 307 by adding the following -0- delimited text:

-0-
Append the following () delimited text to the end of the second paragraph:

()
The Token of Proposals may not be awarded to the same player in consecutive 
nweeks.  If, according to elsewhere in this rule, the same player would 
receive the Token of Proposals in consecutive nweeks, the Token is not 
awarded and the Bandwidth Gremlin goes into Hiding.
()
-0-
}}

Now for some other proposals...  sorry about the long message, I just 
realized that I needed to get these in tonight.

{{
__Shields__

Create a new rule, entitled __Shields__, with the following -0- delimited 
text:

-0-
There exists a game object known as the shield.  At the beginning of each 
nweek, if it is not under the control of a player, the Administrator will 
place the shield down at a random position on The Grid.  If at any point the 
shield and a player occupy the same position on The Grid, the shield is said 
to be under the control of the player.  If a player has the shield under eir 
control, it moves with em on the grid, and cannot be moved under any other 
means.  While a player has the shield under eir control, they may not be 
moved under means other than their own once per nweek move.  If another game 
object would move the player controlling the shield, that game object 
instead moves away from the player one space in the direction it came from.  
If the shield prevents a player from being moved, it immediately leaves eir 
control and leaves the Grid.
-0-
}}

{{
__Buttplates__

Create a new rule entitled __Buttplates__ with the following -0- delimited 
text:

-0-
If at any point a player has recieved more than one Kick in the Ass in one 
nweek, e receives the attribute Buttplated for one nweek.  If a player is 
Buttplated, and e receives a Kick in the Ass, the player who gave em the 
Kick in the Ass does not receive any points, nor does said Kick count 
towards a Supreme Kicker of Asses attribute.
[[Basically, you gotta catch more than one person in the act of doing 
Generally Abhorred Stuff if you're gonna get the bonus.  You gotta earn 
that.]]
-0-
}}

And one more...

{{
__Think the CFJ's through, people!__

Amend rule 126/4 by appending the following -0- delimited text to the final 
paragraph:

-0-
If a plaintiff recinds eir CFJ, e loses 1d3 points.
-0-
[[The point loss is less because CFJs are much more likely to be recinded 
than proposals are to be overhauled.]]
}}

There... maybe that'll teach me to get my proposals in earlier next nweek..

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:39:06 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: GremBall
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Whoa!  I'm brain-dead.  I didn't see the bandwidth rationing went up.  Good=
 thing I'm now inspired...

{{ _The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin_

Create a new rule:

{{ _GremBall_

Gremlins can be in a grid location, in Limbo, or in the posession of a=
 Player.

If a Player is holding a Gremlin, e must throw it or drop it within two=
 ndays, or become Burned and drop it where e is standing.  A Player=
 recovers from being Burned at the end of the nweek.  Burned Players cannot=
 catch thrown Gremlins.

If a Player and a Gremlin are in the same grid location, or a Player and a=
 Gremlin are both in Limbo, the Player may pick up the Gremlin.

A Player in Limbo can throw a Gremlin at a grid location or a Player in a=
 grid location.  A Player in a grid location can throw a Gremlin into Limbo=
 or at a Player in Limbo.  Gremlins cannot be thrown at Players who are On=
 Leave.

If a Gremlin is thrown at a Player, the Player must, as an action, catch=
 the Gremlin within two ndays of it being thrown.  If the Player does not=
 or cannot catch the Gremlin, the Gremlin hits the Player, who then loses=
 1d5 score points; the Gremlin then falls where the Player is standing.
}}

Place all Gremlins that are not already on the grid or in Players'=
 posession into Limbo.

Replace the last sentence of Rule 256 with the following text:

"When a Gremlin is first defined by the rules, it starts out Active and in=
 Limbo unless the defining rule specifies otherwise."

}}

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:52:08 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Gender Recognition
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Now that we officially have gender...

{{ _In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen_

Replace Rule 7 in its entirety with the following rule:

{{ _Pronouns_

The following table entries list the gender-specific pronouns to be used in=
 B Nomic.  Note that pronouns used in generic cases where the gender is not=
 known are the same as used for a gender of Undeclared.

               Male      Female    Drone     Generic/Undeclared
subject        he        she       it        e
object         him       her       it        em
possessive     his       her/hers  its       eir/eirs
reflexive      himself   herself   itself    emself

}}

Add "using an inappropriate pronoun" to the LOGAS.

}}

						Glotmorf

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:03:58 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Proposal: GremBall
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the following already-submitted proposal, modify the fourth paragraph of=
 the GremBall rule to read as follows:

"A Player in Limbo can throw a Gremlin at a grid location or a Player in a=
 grid location.  A Player in a grid location can throw a Gremlin at another=
 grid location, at a Player in another grid location, into Limbo or at a=
 Player in Limbo. Gremlins cannot be thrown at Players who are On Leave."

On 1/30/02 at 2:39 AM Donald Whytock wrote:

>{{ _The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin_
>
>Create a new rule:
>
>{{ _GremBall_
>
>Gremlins can be in a grid location, in Limbo, or in the posession of a
>Player.
>
>If a Player is holding a Gremlin, e must throw it or drop it within two
>ndays, or become Burned and drop it where e is standing.  A Player
>recovers from being Burned at the end of the nweek.  Burned Players cannot
>catch thrown Gremlins.
>
>If a Player and a Gremlin are in the same grid location, or a Player and a
>Gremlin are both in Limbo, the Player may pick up the Gremlin.
>
>A Player in Limbo can throw a Gremlin at a grid location or a Player in a
>grid location.  A Player in a grid location can throw a Gremlin into Limbo
>or at a Player in Limbo.  Gremlins cannot be thrown at Players who are On
>Leave.
>
>If a Gremlin is thrown at a Player, the Player must, as an action, catch
>the Gremlin within two ndays of it being thrown.  If the Player does not
>or cannot catch the Gremlin, the Gremlin hits the Player, who then loses
>1d5 score points; the Gremlin then falls where the Player is standing.
>}}
>
>Place all Gremlins that are not already on the grid or in Players'
>posession into Limbo.
>
>Replace the last sentence of Rule 256 with the following text:
>
>"When a Gremlin is first defined by the rules, it starts out Active and in
>Limbo unless the defining rule specifies otherwise."
>
>}}

From: "Gavin Doig" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:20:07 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: D'oh!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend proosal 320 by replacing its text with the following ROOTOFALLEVIL delimited text:
ROOTOFALLEVIL
Repeal rule 27.
ROOTOFALLEVIL

uin.
-- 

_______________________________________________
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From: "Gavin Doig" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:20:19 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: D'oh!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend proosal 320 by replacing its text with the following ROOTOFALLEVIL delimited text:
ROOTOFALLEVIL
Repeal rule 27.
ROOTOFALLEVIL

uin.
-- 

_______________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:46:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Are you ready for some football!!!!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I know Glotmorf alreday did something similar to this, but my hard drive
went into its death throws last night, so hopefully you'll excuse the
tardiness of this proposal compared with my pickup of the Scoring Gremlin.

Here's the executive summary (as this proposal got a bit wordy):

- We can play football.
- You can become a part of Team Turquoise or Team Crimson as long as the
teams remain balanced.
- You can move 3 units on the grid if you are playing football, but you
don't get to find Shiny or Scary Dark things.
- You can tackle a player if you come within 2 units of them, and then the
Scoring Gremlin goes into the posession of your teammate who is the
furthest from the end-zone.
- Get the Scoring Gremlin into the end zone and score 20 points for each
member of your team!  Woo!

Rules for passing and punting will be introduced next nweek (if this
passes).

Glotmorf:  I came up with this idea last night shortly after my HD started
showing signs of death... would have gotten it proposed earlier
otherwise, sorry.  The only reason I don't like GremBall as you have it
defined is it could get really nasty with if there are a large number of
gremlins.  Plus, I want a team sport  :)

Wonko:  I hope I'm not violating the sanctity of the Scoring Gremlin :)

Admin: Some of the stuff I'm proposing now and next week may require some
math... I see you are using PHP, so I'm willing to write the scripts for
my own madness...

{{
__Are you ready for some football!__

{{
__Monday Night Football__

There exists a game known as Scoring Gremlin Football (Football or SCF for
short).  SCF is played on The Grid between two teams:  Team Turquoise and
Team Crimson.  Each team has a player roster.

The objective of each team is to bring the Scoring Gremlin to eir
designated "end-zone" in the possession of one of the players on eir Team 
Roster. For Team Turquoise, the end-zone is any location on The Grid with
x-coordinate equal to 1.  For Team Crimson, the end-zone is any location
on The Grid with x-coordinate equal to 20.

Players may place eir names on the roster of either Team by posting
eir intention to do so in a public fourm, but may do so only if eir name
is not already on a roster, if they are on The Grid, and if the
roster of the Team they wish to join does not have more players than the
other Team [[You can only join a team if the team sizes are equal, or if
you're joining the smaller team]].

A player may remove eir name from a roster at any time e is not in
possession of the Scoring Gremlin by posting eir intention in a public 
forum. After removing eir name from a player roster, a player may not add
eir name to a roster for one nweek.  If a player is ever in Limbo, eir 
name is removed from any player rosters it may be on.

Players whose names are on a Team's roster are considered to be "playing
Football".  All actions taken by a player with regards to the game of
Football must be posted in a public forum.

Any player playing Football who is at the same location as the Scoring
Gremlin may pick it up.  That player is considered to be "in posession" of
the Scoring Gremlin.  If a player is in possession of the Scoring Gremlin,
it moves with that player.  A player may not pick up the Scoring Gremlin
if it is in the possession of another player.

If a player is playing Football, instead of moving as specified in rule
301, e may move to any location within a circle of three units of eir
current location.  Moving in such a way is known as running, and a player
must specify that e is running in order to move in this manner.  If
after a player runs, e occupies the same location as a Shiny Thing or a
Scary Dark Thing the effects described in rule 301 do not occur.  This
rule supercedes rule 301 in this respect.  Movement by running otherwise
occurs in accordance with rule 301 (with respect to timing,
restrictions, etc.).

If a player is playing Football, and e is within two units of the player
in possession of the Scoring Gremlin (determined by the same circle-style
measurement as for moving), e may tackle the player with the Scoring
Gremlin. The player making the tackle immediately moves to the same
location as the player being tackled.  Both the tackling and the tackled
players do not move at the end of the nweek, even if they had already
declared movement.  The Scoring Gremlin is placed in the possession of the
player on the tackling player's Team who is furthest from eir end-zone.

If a Team succeeds in bringing the Scoring Gremlin to eir end-zone in the
possession of one eir players, all members of the Team gain 20 points, and
the Scoring Gremlin is placed at one of (10, 10), (10, 11), (11, 10), or
(11, 11) with equal probability.

Bean initially starts in posession of the Scoring Gremlin.  This paragraph
subsequently deletes itself from the rules.

}}

Place the name 'Bean' on the roster of Team Turquoise.

}}

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_Rathlev?= <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: I forfeit
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:49:40 +0100
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi everyone,

I currently don't have the time to keep up with the game :-(, so I
forfeit.

Joerg

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:53:38 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: Sexy Sirens On The Rocks
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm recklessly tying this proposal to one that hasn't even been voted in ye=
t...

__Sexy Sirens on the Rocks__

Revise the rule "Big Rocks", if it exists, by replacing

{{Once a Big Rock is placed, no other object -- Players, Things, etc. -- ca=
n occupy that Grid location.}}

with

{{Once a Big Rock is placed, no other object -- Players, Things, etc. -- ca=
n occupy that Grid location, with the exception of a Siren.  Sirens can onl=
y be placed on Big Rocks by the Administrator.}}

then, if the rule "Big Rocks" exists, create a new rule:

__Sexy Sirens On The Rocks__

{{
When placing Big Rocks on the Grid, the Administrator will roll 1d6 to dete=
rmine the presence of a Siren on the Big Rock.  If a 6 is rolled, a Siren i=
s on the Big Rock.  The Administrator will assign a name to each new Siren =
and post the name and location of the Siren (and eir Rock) to the Grid webp=
age or a public forum.

Sirens are Impassable Stationary Objects.

Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren (either horizontal=
ly, vertically, or diagonally) are in the Siren's Zone of Enchantment (ZOE)=
=2E  Players in a Siren's ZOE may only move to other Grid Squares in that S=
iren's ZOE. =20

Players in any Grid square immediately adjoining a Siren's Zone of Enchantm=
ent (either horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) are in the Siren's Zon=
e of Almost-Total Rapture (ZATR).  Players in a Siren's ZATR may only move =
to Grid squares in that Siren's ZATR or Grid squares in that Siren's ZOE.

If a player is in the same Siren's ZOE at the end of 2 consecutive nweeks, =
that player may elect to Make Love to the Siren by posting this action in a=
 public forum.  Making Love to a Siren removes the Siren from the Grid.  Wh=
en a player Makes Love to a Siren, the administrator will roll 1d3.  If the=
 result is a 3, that player becomes a Toad for 4 nweeks. =20

Toads are not free to move at will about the Grid.  While a player is a Toa=
d, e is a passable movable object (MO).  A Toad may be picked up and carrie=
d by a non-Toad player occupying the same square as the Toad. =20

If a player carrying a Toad encounters a Scary Dark Thing, all consequent p=
oint deductions are made from the Toad's Score.  If a player carrying a Toa=
d encounters a Shiny Thing, all consequent point additions are made to the =
non-Toad's Score.

This rule supersedes rule 301.

[[To put it simply, if you're in the ring of 9 squares around the Siren, yo=
u can't leave that ring.  If you're in the ring of 16 squares around that, =
you can only move in that ring or move to the inner ring.]]
}}

If the rule "Big Rocks" does not exist, a voice from on high shall proclaim=
 "Nice try" and this proposal has no further effect (except, of course, to =
earn points and charm for its author if adopted).

[[Elbonian Airways and Pinball Guns may provide additional means of escape =
if they get voted in, but it's also possible for multiple Sirens to end up =
distributed on the Grid in such a way that there are moveless "Doldrums" sp=
aces on the Grid, which could get interesting.  Hence the Make Love escape =
provision.  Vive les freres Coen!]]

--Scoff!

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:55:15 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: SHORT Proposal to close a justice loophole
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2__

Replace the following text from Rule 128:

"Should it happen that a Judge has not issued a Judgement within seven days=
 of eir selection, that Judge shall be recused and a new player shall be se=
lected in the ways prescribed by the rules as Judge for the CFJ. When a Jud=
ge is recused in this manner, e shall lose 10 points and, if a rule entitle=
d "Misbehaving Judges" exists, eir name shall be added to the List of Misbe=
having Judges."

with this text:

{{

Should it happen that a Judge has not issued a Judgement on a CFJ assigned =
to em within seven ndays of eir selection for that CFJ, that Judge shall be=
 recused and a new player shall be selected as Judge for the CFJ in the way=
s prescribed by the rules. When a Judge is recused in this manner, e shall =
lose 10 points and eir name shall be added to the List of Misbehaving Judge=
s.
}}

[[Cleans up the "if a rule exists" stuff we don't need anymore, and closes =
a loophole allowing a Judge to escape recusal by issuing any Judgement at a=
ll, whether on the CFJ in question or not.]]

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "B Nomic Business" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:25:07 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal: The Haiku Bonus
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe__

[[This should encourage some creativity as we try to shoehorn meaningful pr=
oposals into the laconic haiku form.]]

Create a new rule:

__The Haiku Bonus__

{{
Players submitting
Proposals in haiku form
Earn 10 extra points

A player who submits a proposal in haiku form earns 10 Score points for sub=
mitting the proposal, regardless of whether the proposal is adopted or reje=
cted.  If the player subsequently revises the proposal, it must remain in h=
aiku form, or else the player will forfeit the 10 Score points previously a=
warded.

To be considered haiku form, a proposal must meet one of the following rest=
rictions:

1) The proposal, not including the title and comments, has 3 lines of text =
having 5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 syllables respectively.

2) The proposal, including the title, but not the comments, has 3 lines of =
text having 5 syllables, 7 syllables, and 5 syllables respectively.

3) The proposal, not including the title and comments, has 3 lines of text =
having 2 feet, 3 feet, and 2 feet respectively.

4) The proposal, including the title, but not the comments, has 3 lines of =
text having 2 feet, 3 feet, and 2 feet respectively.

Define "Zen Master of Nomic" as a Title.

If 3 or more of a player's haiku proposals have been adopted, that player r=
eceives the Title "Zen Master Of Nomic".
}}

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:16:50 -0500
From: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: I forfeit
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I currently don't have the time to keep up with the game :-(, so I
> forfeit.
> 
> 
> Joerg
 
Joerg is Judge for CFJ 318 (which I submitted). That CFJ needs to be re-assigned. 

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:28:12 -0500
From: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Re: spoon-business: I forfeit
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

You know what? Never mind. I got a new job last week; too much to do. I haven't proposed anything this nweek, keeping up with the volume of mail is impractical, and Platonists annoy me. ;-)

First action: I give all of my points to Dan, only because he is the player who joined the game most recently. 

Second action: I forfeit. 

Thanks. It's been real, in a non-Platonic sense. :-)

--gritter

[email-masked] wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> 
> I currently don't have the time to keep up with the game :-(, so I
> forfeit.
> 
> 
> Joerg
 
Joerg is Judge for CFJ 318 (which I submitted). That CFJ needs to be re-assigned. 

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: D'oh!
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:05:19 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend proosal 320 by replacing its text with the following ROOTOFALLEVIL 
delimited text:
ROOTOFALLEVIL
Repeal rule 27.
ROOTOFALLEVIL

uin.
--

-I give the Cursed Sushi of Babel to Uncle Psychosis.-

                                       -Baron von Skippy-

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:37:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Are you ready for some
 football!!!!
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Rob Speer wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:46:54PM -0500, Eric Gerlach wrote:
> > If a player is playing Football, instead of moving as specified in rule
> > 301, e may move to any location within a circle of three units
> 
> In a non-continuous space like the Grid, you have to specify what you
> mean by that, as "circles" don't actually exist.

You're right... my implication was Catesian metric.  I thought it would be
safe to specify "circle", implying (x2-x1)^2 + (y2-y1)^2 <= r^2, but I
guess that's what you get for being a Mathie.

Therefore I revise my proposal on football, whatever its number may be in
the following manner:

Replace the OOPS delemited text:
OOPS
If a player is playing Football, instead of moving as specified in rule
301, e may move to any location within a circle of three units of eir
current location.
OOPS

with the following AAHTHEREWEGO delimeted text:
AAHTHEREWEGO
If a player is playing Football, instead of moving as specified in rule
301, e may move to any location which is less than or equal to three units
from eir current location (measured by Euclidean distance).
AAHTHEREWEGO

and the following OHNO delimeted text:
OHNO
and e is within two units of the player in possession of the Scoring
Gremlin (determined by the same circle-style measurement as for moving)
OHNO

with the following YAY delimeted text:
YAY
and the player in posession of the Scoring Gremlin is not farther than two
units away (again measured by Euclidean distance) from eir location
YAY

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:51:17 -0500
Subject: spoon-business: Last-Minute Fixes
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I amend proposal 313 to replace the words 'Moves again' with the words
'makes an additional Move'.

I amend proposal 314 to append to the third paragraph the sentence 'If a MO
tries to Move into an illegal square which it already tried to move into
once since the last time it came to rest, it fails to Move.'.

The first part stops things from counting sliding as a move, and the second
prevents the Yeti (or anything else) from sliding on the ice and bouncing
back and forth forever.

-- 
Wonko
Stultus est sicut stultus facit.

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:01:13 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Revision of Haiku and a new Proposal
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First, a revision. =20

In the Haiku Bonus proposal, replace

{{
A player who submits a proposal in haiku form earns 10 Score points for sub=
mitting the proposal, regardless of whether the proposal is adopted or reje=
cted.  If the player subsequently revises the proposal, it must remain in h=
aiku form, or else the player will forfeit the 10 Score points previously a=
warded.
}}

with=20

{{
A player who submits a proposal in haiku form earns 10 Score points if the =
proposal is adopted, in addition to any points received as a normal consequ=
ence of the adoption of a proposal.
}}

Next, here's a new proposal to cut down on the need for self-modifying "if =
this rule exists" stuff in proposals:

__Dependent Proposals__

{{
A proposal may be specified as being "Dependent" on another proposal or rul=
e.  This is specified by including the phrase "Dependent on [object type] [=
serial number]", where object type is either "Proposal" or "Rule". =20

If the serial number is given without the revision number, the proposal is =
dependent on the most current revision of that object at the moment the pro=
posal is enacted.  If a revision number is specified, the proposal is depen=
dent on that specific revision of the object being active.

I. Dependent on Other Proposals

If a proposal is dependent on another proposal, and the proposal it is depe=
ndent on passes, then the dependent proposal is enacted like a normal propo=
sal. However, if the proposal it is dependent on does not pass, the depende=
nt proposal becomes Inactive and is not enacted.

II.  Dependent on Rules

If a proposal is dependent on a rule, and the rule it is dependent on is  a=
ctive at the time the dependent proposal is enacted, then the dependent pro=
posal is enacted like a normal proposal. However, if the rule it is depende=
nt on is not active, the dependent proposal becomes Inactive and is not ena=
cted.

III.  Multiple Dependencies

A proposal may have multiple dependencies.  If a proposal has multiple depe=
ndencies, and any one of those dependencies will inactivate the proposal, t=
he proposal is inactivated regardless of the status of its other dependenci=
es.  [[i.e. if one is broken, the whole thing breaks]]

IV.  Failed Dependency Clause

Dependent Proposals may specify a Failed Dependency Clause.  The Failed Dep=
endency Clause is a portion of the proposal that is only activated when the=
 proposal has been inactivated by one or more dependencies.  Notwithstandin=
g the "Inactive" status of the proposal, and if and only if the Dependent P=
roposal has been inactivated by a dependency, the Failed Dependency Clause =
is treated as an active proposal and adopted instead of the rest of the ina=
ctivated Dependent Proposal.

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:14:14 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Proposal:  nDaysed and nConfused
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

__nDaysed and nConfused__

[[Due to the fact that some proposals were enacted later on the same ballot=
 as the now-deleted provision in Rule 3 that changed all instances of "day"=
 to "nday", and because subsequent ballots have included proposals that use=
d the term "day" instead of "nday", I'm doing some cleaning up.  Or rather,=
 making it possible for said cleaning-up to be done legally, since I don't =
think day/nday can be classed as a typo/spelling fix.]]

In Rule 257, insert the following paragraph before the paragraph "Should a =
player object to the Administrator's actions in executing these powers, eir=
 remedy is the Call For Judgement process."

{{
5) Correct a proposal or rule that uses the term "day" by replacing it with=
 the term "nday", if it appears clear that the term was intended to refer t=
o an nday.  The Administrator must post notice of the correction(s) made to=
 a public forum within 1 nday following the correction.
}}

Then, after *all* proposals on this ballot have been implemented, replace a=
ll instances of the term "day" in the rule set with "nday", and replace all=
 instances of the term "days" in the rule set with "ndays".  This replaceme=
nt applies only to these unique terms, not to words in which these terms ar=
e found as substrings.

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:34:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (Wednesday afternoon)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Today's episode of "The Daily Recognizer" is brought to you by Rob Zombie.

Since the effects of the Pink Scarf explicitly protect proposals from
gender-modification effects, I'm rectifying Congenital Optimist's "i said
i've got a big stick" to remove the static electricity. Anyway, after
that, it's 323/0.

The "Bob's Clones" CFJ is 324, assigned to Baron von Skippy.

Iain's "Hopefully completely fathomable CFJ" is 325, assigned to Scoff!.

Iain has declared a Gender and entered The Grid.

"The Rat Race," despite the appearance of exceptional annoyance to me, is
recognized as 326/0.

Bean declares a Gender, enters the Grid, and picks up the Scoring Gremlin,
for reasons I can't currently fathom.

Antonio enters The Grid.

The Voice has revised 307 to 307/1.
Eir "Shields" proposal is 327/0.
Eir "Buttplates" proposal is 328/0.
Eir "Think the CFJ's through, people!" is 329/0.

Re: Glotmorf tossing a rule onto the Grid: If there were an in-game object
called "The Book Of Rules" or "Larry's Law Codex" or something, I wouldn't
have a problem with rules being manipulated as though they were physical
objects. But, thus far, they ain't.

Glotmorf's "The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin" is 330/0.
Glotmorf's "Pronouns" proposal with the really long title that I don't
feel like re-typing is 331/0. And if this rule passes, I will in fact
format the pronouns list properly. :)

Glotmorf revised "GremBall" (330/1).

Uncle Psychosis' "The only card I need." is revised as 320/1. (E sent two
identical revisions; I'm assuming this was a mailer glitch. If e really
really wants me to create 320/2, which is identical in every respect to
320/1, I will, but I don't see the point.)

"Are you ready for some football!" is rectified (Add "Create a new rule:"
to the beginning of the proosal) and recognized (332/0). And in regards to
the maths involved: I prefer this to, say, the maths in "Giant Hamster
Balls." :-)

Joerg forfeits.

"Sexy Sirens On The Rocks" is 333/0. Can I name Sirens after my
ex-girlfriends?

"Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2" is 334/0.

"Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe" is 335/0.

gritter: The rules don't seem to allow a judge to be recused just because
e isn't a player anymore... when your CFJ times out in seven days, it will
be re-assigned, barring someone pointing out something in the rules I've
missed.

Um... okay, never mind. gritter transfers 124 points to Dan, and then
forfeits.

Baron von Skippy, after controlling the Cursed Sushi of Babel for the
prescribed four days, transfers it to Uncle Psychosis.

Football undergoes Euclidian revision and is 332/1.

Wonko revises "The Yeti" (313/3) and "Definitions&Pinball" (314/3).

The Haiku proposal is revised (335/1).

"Dependent Proposals" is rectified (add "Create a new rule:" verbiage) and
recognized as 336/0.

"nDaysed and nConfused" is 337/0. (Darn. I was just about to send when
that arrived. I was SO close to being caught up...)

Here's to hoping nothing else arrives in the next hour and a half. :-)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "Business Nomic" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:21:35 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Game Action
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Antonio forfeits B Nomic
Baron von Skippy forfeits B Nomic
Bean forfeits B Nomic
Congenital Optimist forfeits B Nomic
Dan  forfeits B Nomic
Glotmorf forfeits B Nomic
Iain forfeits B Nomic
Rob forfeits B Nomic
The Voice forfeits B Nomic
Turgul forfeits B Nomic
Uncle Psychosis forfeits B Nomic
Wonko forfeits B Nomic

[[Players *may* forfeit for themselves, but nothing in the rules to say I c=
an't do it for them.  I think this is what Glotmorf's CFJs were getting at.=
=2E.the decision on the inevitable CFJ for this should be interesting.  Esp=
ecially since I am now the only available judge, and all of you who have ju=
st forfeited can't submit a CFJ.]]

--Scoff!

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:42:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Game Action
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jonathan Van Matre wrote:

> Antonio forfeits B Nomic
> Baron von Skippy forfeits B Nomic
> Bean forfeits B Nomic
> Congenital Optimist forfeits B Nomic
> Dan  forfeits B Nomic
> Glotmorf forfeits B Nomic
> Iain forfeits B Nomic
> Rob forfeits B Nomic
> The Voice forfeits B Nomic
> Turgul forfeits B Nomic
> Uncle Psychosis forfeits B Nomic
> Wonko forfeits B Nomic

Like Hell they do. Consider your action ignored, unrecognized, and
idiotic.

...dave

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "Business Nomic" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:26:41 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: More Game Actions
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I declare my gender to be Female, 'cause there isn't one yet.

I enter the Grid at (16,13).

--Scoff!

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:49:09 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Last-minute GremBall revision
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In the proposed GremBall rule, in the last paragraph, replace the text that=
 reads

"who then loses 1d5 score points"

with

"who then loses 1d5 score points to the Player that threw the Gremlin"

						Glotmorf

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:47:19 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Last-minute revision, or just call it a rectification if it's too late
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In my dependent proposals proposal, it should be understood to be creating =
a rule.  i.e.

Create a new rule called:

__Dependent Proposals__

Etc.

Wasn't this what the Elimination of Boilerplate was supposed to do?  Readin=
g it over again, though, its effect seems somewhat unclear, so I'm putting =
in this revision just to be safe.

--Scoff!

> Daddy's confused.  Is the "new proposal" actually a new rule?=20
>  You didn't say.
>=20
> 						Glotmorf
>=20

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:11:13 -0600
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Game Action
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, I was only doing it to present a particularly engrossing case to CFJ =
what Glotmorf has been on about.  E has a point, however ill-chosen and/or =
misunderstood eir examples may have been.  Either permissibility of the unp=
rohibited exists or it doesn't, and we've seen at least one major CFJ judge=
ment that contradicts that principle.  Judgements can contradict each other=
, but they shouldn't be contradicting the rules just to prevent something w=
e don't want to see happen.

Anyway, your unrecognizing ignore of my action raises another equally CFJ-w=
orthy issue:  Can the Administrator legally ignore actions?  For example, i=
f someone you intensely dislike posts eir intent to be a player, can you ig=
nore it?  If I post a proposal you're not fond of, can you ignore that?  St=
arting to sound a lot like Imperial Nomic all of a sudden...

Herewith, my CFJ, Administrator as Defendant:

STATEMENT:  The Administrator can not refuse to recognize any action posted=
 to a public forum, except where such non-recognition is explicitly permitt=
ed by the rules.

ANALYSIS:  It's not a rule, but it certainly should be.  The alternative gi=
ves *way* too much power of discretion to the Administrator.  If eir least-=
favorite player posts a Grid move to a square that has a Shiny thing, can e=
 ignore the move to prevent said player receiving points?  This whole ignor=
ing-an-action thing sets up an unwelcome precedent.

--Scoff!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David E. Smith [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 4:42 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: spoon-business: Game Action
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Jonathan Van Matre wrote:
>=20
> > Antonio forfeits B Nomic
> > Baron von Skippy forfeits B Nomic
> > Bean forfeits B Nomic
> > Congenital Optimist forfeits B Nomic
> > Dan  forfeits B Nomic
> > Glotmorf forfeits B Nomic
> > Iain forfeits B Nomic
> > Rob forfeits B Nomic
> > The Voice forfeits B Nomic
> > Turgul forfeits B Nomic
> > Uncle Psychosis forfeits B Nomic
> > Wonko forfeits B Nomic
>=20
> Like Hell they do. Consider your action ignored, unrecognized, and
> idiotic.
>=20
> ..dave
>=20
>=20
>=20

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:01:16 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Last-minute proposal
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I propose a rule:

{{
Players may not change the game state.

This rule defers to all other rules.
}}

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:18:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: The Daily Recognizer (last minute stuff)
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Scoff! declares a Gender and enters The Grid.

GremBall is revised (330/2).

Scoff!'s revision to "Dependent Proposals" is not recognized, because it
was already rectified to the same effect.

Just for the sake of argument, out of boredom, I'll assign a serial number
to Scoff!'s CFJ. Mind you, until such time as it can be determined whether
anyone else is actually playing, nobody can judge said CFJ. (For the time
being, the "recent CFJs" Web page will be funky because it doesn't yet
know how to deal with an un-owned CFJ.) Anyway, 338, assigned to
who-the-heck-knows.

Sadly, I can't recognize Rob's "Last Minute Proposal" for this nweek
because every header in the mail says it was received after Voting
started. Even the most favorable one has it being 52 seconds late. Sigh.
(Actually, it's recognized as 339/0, but it won't be on the ballot that
will be issued in a few minutes.)

...dave

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 00:20:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here we go again...

Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)
Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)
Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)
Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)
Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)
Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)
Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)
Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
                (Glotmorf)
Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)
Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)

...dave

---- David E. Smith, POB 515045, St. Louis MO 63151
http://www.technopagan.org/    http://metadave.net/
http://www.bureau42.com/       http://whatIsay.com/

"Use anger to throw them into disarray." -- Sun Tzu

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:57:37 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, I'll at least get this in early.

 NO > Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
[[ what would stop me from spending 300 style points and going very
negative in Style? ]]
YES > Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
 NO > Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
 NO > Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)
[[ Why penalize overhauls? Furthermore, this rule assigns itself a
Chutzpah of 2 for no good reason. ]]
YES > Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)
YES > Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)
 NO > Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
 NO > Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
[[ Flawed. ]]
YES > Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)
 NO > Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
 NO > Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES > Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
YES > Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)
[[ The calculations aren't the important part. The important part is
that you can be inside a big ball careening through space and running
over anyone in your way! Whee! ]]
YES > Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
 NO > Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
 NO > Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
                      (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)
YES > Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
 NO > Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
[[ Not necessary. ]]
YES > Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
 NO > Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)
[[ If the Clock is stopped, would CFJs never expire? I believe many
instances really do mean 'day'. ]]

-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:26:28 -0500
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth David E. Smith,

> Here we go again...
>=20
> Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
Yes. We might as well do something with style.

> Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
Yes

> Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
Yes. Go Gremlins!

> Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
No. This does nothing except keep Things from overlapping. Who cares?

> Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
Yes

> Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)
No. Some proposals seem good at the time but become kinda stupid later. If
this passes, nobody will want to fix eir proposals.

> Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
No. Seems kind of confusing =AD 'according to elsewhere in this rule', the
Token can never be given to the same player twice, so the last sentence doe=
s
squat. Also, what happens if two people are tied for second-highest number
of affirmatives? The old version specifies what to do in case of a first
place tie, but with this revision, if the first choice can't be given to,
then it's ambiguous who gets it. Do both of them get it? Or does it stay
with its Gremlin? Or does something entirely weirder happen?

> Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)
No. Since Gritter's demise, Dan's score is far too high for me to just hand
him points for a trivial change.

> Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)
Yes. This is worthy.

> Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)
Yea. Just in case.

> Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)
No. It's somewhat retroactive - you can't kick someone for it until Judgmen=
t
has been administered.

> Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
No. This is just weird.

> Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)
No. How else can we Win?

> Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
Yes. Looks like fun!

> Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)
No. I don't want to have to keep track of 6 or 7 dimensional spheres.

> Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
Yes. Whee!

> Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
Yes. Less incentive for kicking people for things like misspelling
signatures.

> Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
No. Not that I object, but according to my calculations, this will be eaten=
.

> Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
YES!

> Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
> (Glotmorf)
No

> Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)
No

> Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
Yes. I suppose.

> Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
Yes

> Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
No

> Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
No. We do it anyway.

> Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)
No. It doesn't exist anyway =AD Scoff! only gets 5/nweek.
>=20

--=20
Wonko=20
There are no stupid questions; just stupid people.

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: Ballot
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:33:49 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here Goes Nothing...

Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)YES
Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)NO
Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)NO
Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)NO
Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)YES
Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)YES
Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)YES
Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)YES
Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)YES
Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)YES
Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)YES
Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)YES
Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)YES
Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)YES
Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)YES
Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)YES
Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)NO
Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)NO
Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)YES
Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)NO
Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)YES
Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)YES
Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)YES
Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)YES
Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
                (Glotmorf)NO
Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)YES
Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)NO
Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)YES
Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)NO
Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)YES
Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)YES [[If it is actually on the 
ballot... it is his 6th and therefore shouldn't as Wonko has the Token of 
Proposals...]]

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:40:03 -0500
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
From: Wonko <[email-masked]>
To: Business Nomic <[email-masked]>
Blobman: 1
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quoth Wonko,

> Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
Yes
> Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
Yes
> Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)
Yes 

In light of more recent information, namely that the Hungry Gremlin always
rounds up and 337 is legal, my votes change as specified above.

-- 
Wonko
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit.

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:42:51 -0600
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

YEA > Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
YES > Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
YES > Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
YES > Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
NO > Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)

Why does this need to have higher Chutzpah than every other rule in the rul=
e set?  And I favor allowing revisions anyway.

NO > Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)

I think see a point to this seemingly trivial change.  I'll let it fly, eve=
n though Dan has more points than me thanks to gritter's exit in a cloud of=
 score points.

YES > Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)

Rule 257 already permits corrections to CFJs.  This modification would also=
 make 255 rather confusing...CFJs and other non-proposal "official document=
s" don't have proponents.  Rules, especially multiply-revised rules, don't =
have proponents either.  Covers old ground wearing less sensible shoes.

NO > Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
YES > Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
NO > Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)

Again with the excessive Chutzpah.  Also, it looks like "If a player, after=
 being Thrown, ends up on a square which is occupied by an Impassable Objec=
t, e loses 5 points [[for being injured in the landing]] and is Thrown at t=
hat square." is an infinite recursion loop.  Fly  Elbonian Airways!  Again =
and again and again and again and....

NO > Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)

I'm voting no because this gives even more of an unfair advantage than othe=
r LOGAS stuff.  Most stuff on the LOGAS favors those who are most vigilantl=
y watching their e-mail.  This proposal is essentially free points to whoev=
er judged the CFJ, since e will be aware of the player's kickable state bef=
ore anyone else, and indeed can administer the kick as part of the posting =
that delivers the ruling.

NO > Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES > Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)

I like games that have open-ended play.  We've got enough different things =
to do with points now that the game can probably stay interesting without a=
 clear win condition.

YES > Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
NO > Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)

Really interesting idea, but (and my apologies for not noticing this sooner=
, or I would have pointed it out) some dimensions change very slowly, and t=
he use of 5 points as a fixed value in the Collision scenario means one cou=
ld easily lose more Style or Charm or Activity than e has.  A proportional =
value would be better.

YES > Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
NO > Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
YES > Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
NO > Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
ABSTAIN > Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)

Pity this got eaten.  It *is* a very amusing idea.

YEA > Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
YEA > Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
YEA > Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
YEA > Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
YEA > Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)

--Scoff!

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:34:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: "David E. Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ assignment - no, really
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Y'know, I rather like UIN's idea of a "thread split" - so, in one
alternate reality, Scoff!'s CFJ, number 338, is assigned to Congenital
Optimist. (In the other, of course, there aren't any players left,
rendering the question pretty well moot.)

I still maintain that since rule repeal is explicitly regulated, UIN never
repealed Rule 10, despite any claims to the contrary. Not that it matters,
since there's nobody playing anymore...

...dave

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:40:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Fixing the mess
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay Scoff!, let's see if I can't set the wheels in motion to rectify this
problem.

Point 1: I'm going by uin's idea that we have 2 threads of game state, and
I'm going to play my actions into both.  If you don't like it, well, I'm
just playing CYA.  (Well, the admin just mandated the multiple threads
thing, so I'm cool)

Action 1
--------
If there is no player named Bean in this game, I join the game under the
name "Bean".

... now that I'm in the game for sure ...

Action 2
--------

I submit the following CFJ:

Statement:  The players Antonio, Baron von Skippy, Bean, Congenital
Optimist, Dan, Glotmorf, Iain, Rob, The Voice, Uncle Psychosis, Wonko did
not resign.

I name Scoff! as defendant for this CFJ.

Analysis:  Rule 18 reads: "Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the
Ruleset is permitted and unregulated", and in CFJ 251 was interpreted to
mean that if there was *any* regulation of an action that was considered
to be sufficient to detatch Rule 18 from that action.  Rule 14 reads "A
Player may forfeit at any time by declaring publicly eir intention to do
so."  The key word here is "eir" which implies that a player must make
their OWN forfeit.  This word also regulates who may declare the player's
intention to forfeit.  Therefore Rule 18 does not apply to the action
that Scoff! took in attempting to get players to forfeit, and so it is
prohibited.  Therefore we're all still in the game.

Action 3
--------

I rule on CFJ 321:

I judge this statement to be TRUE.

Analysis: *This* is an instance where Rule 18 applies.  Go for it.  Kill
all the Gremlins you like...

---Actions Complete---

Now, if someone could chime in to judge the CFJ by declaring their
conditional joining the game, we can clear up this mess.

Bean - Your Friendly Neighbourhood Rules Lawyer

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:38:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: Big Rocks
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I create 399 Big Rocks and toss them onto the Grid.  I will place one Big
Rock on every unit except for the one I occupy.

Dan

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:57:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <[email-masked]>
To: "'nomic-business'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> 
YES> Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
YES> Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
YES> Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
YES> Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
YES> Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
NO> Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)
YES> Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
YES> Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)
YES> Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)
YES> Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
NO> Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
NO> Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
NO> Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
YES> Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
NO> Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)
YES> Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)
NO> Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
(I'd be all for this if it wasn't for the 2 week wait.  That's silly.
The nothing-happens-until-the-admin-says-so bit is fine.)

NO> Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)
YES> Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
YES> Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)
NO> Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
NO> Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
NO> Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
YES> Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
NO> Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
>                 (Glotmorf)
> Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)
NO> Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
NO> Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
NO> Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
(free points?  I don't think so)
NO> Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
(we can do this sort of thingwell enough without a rule for it.)
YES> Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)

Dan

From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Re: Scoff! and Bean
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:05:22 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, Bean, ok.

If no player named The Voice exists, I join the game with the name The 
Voice.

As there is no other legal judge of Bean's CFJ, I become the Judge of it.

I Judge it True.

Feel free to recognize this at any moment, if we buy the split threads 
thing.  I kinda like it, even though it has the distinct possibility of 
getting really complicated...

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

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From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:38:22 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: Apologies, Explanations, and Fixes
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

First, my apologies to anyone who regards my mass-forfeiture action as mali=
cious, mean, or unsportsmanlike.  I had no intention of breaking the game, =
and even less of making people want to stop playing.  But the latter has un=
fortunately begun to occur, and there seems to be a general consensus that =
I am in the process of destroying the game as well.  I'm sorry.

All I wanted to do is draw attention to the issue previously raised by Glot=
morf, which was treated rather dismissively  by some and ultimately left st=
ill unresolved.  I took up the grand tradition of lawyers hoping to bring a=
n issue before our Supreme Court and crafted a whopper of a test case, desi=
gned to draw public interest and judicial attention all at once.

It has clearly backfired, so **I herewith rescind my action which forfeited=
 on behalf of all other active players**.  Which is either legal by the sam=
e mechanism that made the action legal in the first place, or unnecessary b=
ecause forfeiting on behalf of others was illegal to begin with.  This shou=
ld get us back to one thread, and leave a scenario where my CFJ can be judg=
ed and life can proceed as normal.

But please, let's get some clarity on what is the standard for regulation/n=
on-regulation by the rules, and be consistent in applying it henceforth.  O=
r if someone can provide a comprehensive explanation showing it has been co=
mpletely consistent to this point anyway, I'd accept that.

Again, my apologies, and I'll try to be less dramatic in the future.

But you can't deny it definitely got your attention.

--Scoff!

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:40:56 -0600
Subject: spoon-business: RE: spoon-discuss: Re: Game Action
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The fact that I may be the only active player: There are multiple ways arou=
nd this, including me CFJing myself, and then judging my own CFJ in For you=
r suggestion that this could have more easily been accomplished by having e=
veryone give all their points to me...no dice.  The rules prohibit changes =
to my score except as explicitly permitted by the rules. =20

I did notice (too late, alas) that I could have put everyone On Leave inste=
ad by the same method.  In retrospect, I would have done that instead.  I o=
nly spotted the (possible) forefeiture loophole first because the recent ra=
sh of forfeitures drew my attention to that section of the rule set.

--Scoff!

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: "nomic-business" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:45:00 -0600
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Much to my initial surprise, I change my vote on Proposal 319 to YES.

--Scoff!

From: "Alex Truelsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: CFJ: Denying the Undeniable
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:18:35 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I call for Judgement.

Statement: Uncle Psychosis has Denied the Undeniable Sushi and should be 
given 4 more ndays with said Sushi and be fined 35 points.

Analysis: According to Rule 213/2, theplayer with the Sushi /must/ translate 
and retranslate eir messages, either Eng-Korean-Eng, Eng-German-French-Eng, 
or through Pig Latin. Uncle Psychosis did none of these in 7 recent 
messages, despite my action of giving em the Sushi being publicly 
recognized. Each breach carries a one-day penalty (no more than 4 total) and 
a 5-point fine.

[[Cheers.]]

                                       -Baron von Skippy-

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From: "Tyler Crosby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: PROPOSAL: Rule 17
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:33:18 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

{{
__Precedents, Schmrecedents__

Amend rule 17 by replacing the following THEN delimited text,

THEN
reaching the appropriate Fora.
THEN

with the following NOW delimited text:

NOW
their being recognized by the Administrator.  If an action is not recognized 
which is arguably deserviving of recognition, or vice versa, or if a player 
believes the Administrator has acted out of spite, e may make a CFJ on the 
subject, with the Administrator as Defendant.
NOW

There, that should work.  Problems?  Talk to me.

-0- Thus Spake The Voice -0-
*Ignore this signature if :
1) it doesn't make sense to you
2) it seems outdated
3) you feel moved to make a sarcastic comment
4) you didn't read to the end of this list.
Thank you, and have a nice day.*

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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:54:27 -0500
From: "Donald Whytock" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: Game Action
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I paint Scoff! blue.

						Glotmorf

From: "Jonathan Van Matre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:05:16 -0600
Subject: RE: spoon-business: Game Action
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yay!  I always wanted to be a Smurf.

OK, not really.  I clean myself off with paint remover.

--Scoff!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donald Whytock [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:54 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: spoon-business: Game Action
>=20
>=20
> I paint Scoff! blue.
>=20
> 						Glotmorf
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:04:41 -0500
From: Rob Speer <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: spoon-business: A title
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I give my most recently submitted proposal-rule this title:

__The All-Important Default Case, Which Has Unfortunately Been Missing
 From The Rules Up Until Now__

thus making the title longer than the proposal itself.
-- 
Rob Speer

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:37:50 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: spoon-business: I begin my proposing....
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

... for next nweek with this nweek's remainder.... (I'll try to keep my 
contribution to the next ballot under 5... to respect the bandwidth limit)

But before I do, I move to (13, 5) on The Grid, taking the Scoring Gremlin 
with me.

PROPOSAL #1 - Football reprise
------------------------------

I *refuse* to let the PEG stop me from playing Football!

{{
__Are you ready for some football!__

{{
__Monday Night Football__

There exists a game known as Scoring Gremlin Football (Football or SCF for
short).  SCF is played on The Grid between two teams:  Team Turquoise and
Team Crimson.  Each team has a player roster.

The objective of each team is to bring the Scoring Gremlin to eir
designated "end-zone" in the possession of one of the players on eir Team
Roster. For Team Turquoise, the end-zone is any location on The Grid with
x-coordinate equal to 1.  For Team Crimson, the end-zone is any location
on The Grid with x-coordinate equal to 20.

Players may place eir names on the roster of either Team by posting
eir intention to do so in a public fourm, but may do so only if eir name
is not already on a roster, if they are on The Grid, and if the
roster of the Team they wish to join does not have more players than the
other Team [[You can only join a team if the team sizes are equal, or if
you're joining the smaller team]].

A player may remove eir name from a roster at any time e is not in
possession of the Scoring Gremlin by posting eir intention in a public
forum. After removing eir name from a player roster, a player may not add
eir name to a roster for one nweek.  If a player is ever in Limbo, eir
name is removed from any player rosters it may be on.

Players whose names are on a Team's roster are considered to be "playing
Football".  All actions taken by a player with regards to the game of
Football must be posted in a public forum.

Any player playing Football who is at the same location as the Scoring
Gremlin may pick it up.  That player is considered to be "in posession" of
the Scoring Gremlin.  If a player is in possession of the Scoring Gremlin,
it moves with that player.  A player may not pick up the Scoring Gremlin
if it is in the possession of another player.

If a player is playing Football, instead of moving as specified in rule
301, e may move to any location which is less than or equal to three units
from eir current location (measured by Euclidean distance).  Moving in such
a way is known as running, and a player must specify that e is running in
order to move in this manner.  If after a player runs, e occupies the same
location as a Shiny Thing or a Scary Dark Thing the effects described in
rule 301 do not occur.  This rule supercedes rule 301 in this respect.
Movement by running otherwise occurs in accordance with rule 301 (with
respect to timing, restrictions, etc.).

If a player is playing Football, and the player in posession of the Scoring
Gremlin is not farther than two units away (again measured by Euclidean
distance) from eir location, e may tackle the player with the Scoring
Gremlin. The player making the tackle immediately moves to the same
location as the player being tackled.  Both the tackling and the tackled
players do not move at the end of the nweek, even if they had already
declared movement.  The Scoring Gremlin is placed in the possession of the
player on the tackling player's Team who is furthest from eir end-zone.

If a Team succeeds in bringing the Scoring Gremlin to eir end-zone in the
possession of one eir players, all members of the Team gain 20 points, and
the Scoring Gremlin is placed at one of (10, 10), (10, 11), (11, 10), or
(11, 11) with equal probability.

Bean initially starts in posession of the Scoring Gremlin.  This paragraph
subsequently deletes itself from the rules.

}}

Repeal any rule entitled "GremBall".  [[This way, we can play GremBall this 
nweek, and Football starting next nweek!]]

Place the name 'Bean' on the roster of Team Turquoise.

}}

PROPOSAL #2 - Find out what it means to me...
---------------------------------------------

{{
__Just a little bit...__

Create a rule:

{{
__I get no respect!__

Players have an attribute called Respect.  Respect is a dimension.

If a player believes that an action performed by another player is 
deserving of the collective and deepest respect and regard of all the 
players, e may make a Declaration of Respect.  This declaration must take 
the form: "For *reason*, we respect *name*", where *reason* is a 
description of the action that is believed respectful, and *name* is the 
name of the player who performed the action.

If a player believes that an action performed by another player is 
deserving of the collective and deepest disrespect and disregard of all the 
players, e may make a Declaration of Disrespect.  This declaration must 
take the form: "For *reason*, we disrespect *name*", where *reason* is a 
description of the action that is believed disrespectful, and *name* is the 
name of the player who performed the action.

A player may not name emself in a Declaration of Respect/Disrespect.

Declarations of Respect/Disrespect are proposals.  When a Declaration of 
Respect passes, the Respect of the player named in the Declaration 
increases by one.  When a Declaration of Disrespect passes, the Respect of 
the player named in the Declaration decreases by one.  No points are gained 
or lost by any player as a result of the passage or failure of a 
Declaration of Respect/Disrespect.  This rule takes precedence over Rule 
124 in that regard.  Declarations of Respect/Disrespect do not count 
towards any counting of proposals from any given player.

If a player's Respect exceeds all other players' respect by at least 5, 
that player gains the title "Respected One".  If at any time, the Respect 
of a player who has the title "Respected One" fails to meet the 
aforementioned condition, that player loses the title "Respected One".
}}

}}

There will be more to come on Respect, before you condemn it as useless.

Bean

Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:36:05 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Eric Gerlach <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: spoon-business: Ballot, nweek 6
Sender: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

And the ballot is cast....

YES - Proposal 290/0: I've Got The Style It Takes (Scoff!)
YES - Proposal 291/0: Standard Optional Delimiters (Rob)
NO - Proposal 292/2: An Offer You Can't Refuse (Glotmorf)
      I'm mainly against this one because I'm starting to feel uneasy about 
using points as
      currency... I'm going to look into that....

ABSTAIN - Proposal 302/0: Fixing It Would Be Too Easy (Glotmorf)
YES - Proposal 303/1: Watch for Falling Rocks (Glotmorf)
       I hope this doesn't get overused.......

NO - Proposal 306/1: Wait, can I take that back? (The Voice)
YES - Proposal 307/1: More Bandwidth Gremlin Revisions (The Voice)
YES - Proposal 308/0: Rule by Consent (Dan)
YES - Proposal 309/0: Judges make typos too! (Dan)
YES - Proposal 310/1: Help! Help! I'm being repressed! (Wonko)
YES - Proposal 311/2: Fixing the PEG (Wonko)
NO - Proposal 312/2: I'm Higher on the Food Chain! (Wonko)
NO - Proposal 313/3: The Yeti (Wonko)
YES - Proposal 314/3: Definitions&Pinball (Wonko)
NO - Proposal 315/2: I'm Flying! (Wonko)
NO - Proposal 317/0: Cheaters WILL be punished! (Dan)
YES - Proposal 319/0: Why? Because I'm a cave man. (Uncle Psychosis)
       Yes damn it!  For goodness sakes YES!!!!!!

NO - Proposal 320/1: The only card I need. (Uncle Psychosis)
      I think we need ways to win... we just need more interesing ones :)

YES - Proposal 323/0: i said i've got a big stick (Congenital Optimist)
NO - Proposal 326/0: The Rat Race (Rob)
ABSTAIN - Proposal 327/0: Shields (The Voice)
YES - Proposal 328/0: Buttplates (The Voice)
YES - Proposal 329/0: Think the CFJ's through, people! (The Voice)
YES - Proposal 330/2: The Intercontinental Ballistic Gremlin (Glotmorf)
       Sure, but only because football ain't happening this week.

NO - Proposal 331/0: In the Valley of the Drones the One-Eyed Man is Queen
                 (Glotmorf)
YES *sniff* - Proposal 332/1: Are you ready for some football! (Bean)
NO - Proposal 333/0: Sexy Sirens on the Rocks (Scoff!)
YES - Proposal 334/0: Justice Administered Piecemeal, Part 2 (Scoff!)
YES - Proposal 335/1: Bandwidth Limitation Of A Different Stripe (Scoff!)
       But I think I'm going to try to revise this to be a bit broader....

NO - Proposal 336/0: Dependent Proposals (Scoff!)
YES - Proposal 337/0: nDaysed and nConfused (Scoff!)