From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:09:37 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:09:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 72680 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 06:10:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:09:36 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:09:33 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Proposal 301 Message-ID: <9170ad+68q1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 127 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:10:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:10:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 53217 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:10:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:10:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 06:12:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:10:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:10:54 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Proposal 302 Message-ID: <9170cu+6t0t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 108 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " A poll shall be created by the author of a new proposal, in order to facilitate the vote tabulating process From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:12:33 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:12:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 3833 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 05:12:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:12:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:12:24 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Proposal 303 Message-ID: <9170fo+6t9d@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 127 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " Enacted rules shall be posted to the list, with the subject consisting of the word "Rule", followed by the number of the rule. From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:13:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:13:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 55143 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 05:13:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:13:41 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:13:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 301 Message-ID: <9170hu+6anb@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170ad+68q1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 60 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " This is an outrage!!! What kind of Crack are you smoking?? From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:17:43 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:17:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 92796 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:17:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 06:18:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:17:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:16:45 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 302 Message-ID: <9170nt+nai0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170cu+6t0t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 278 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > A poll shall be created by the author of a new proposal, in order to facilitate the vote tabulating process This definately needs clarification... Is this now the only way to vote? As written, I vote against. From eventi@h... Tue Dec 12 21:24:35 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Dec 2000 05:24:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 82572 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 05:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Dec 2000 05:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 05:24:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Dec 2000 05:24:35 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 05:24:30 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 303 Message-ID: <91716e+k82l@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170fo+6t9d@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 254 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.19 From: "eventi " --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > Enacted rules shall be posted to the list, with the subject consisting of the word "Rule", followed by the number of the rule. someone should write a rule for how to Call For Judgement. From bernardo@c... Sat Dec 16 07:29:31 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 15:29:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 17726 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 15:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 15:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 16:30:36 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.28] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 15:29:31 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:29:28 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 301 Message-ID: <91g1op+plve@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170ad+68q1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 208 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.168.70 From: bernardo@c... --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. I vote yea. From bernardo@c... Sat Dec 16 07:41:53 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 15:41:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 38578 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 15:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 15:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 15:41:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 15:41:52 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:41:48 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 303 Message-ID: <91g2fs+js9t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170fo+6t9d@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 220 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.168.70 From: bernardo@c... --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > Enacted rules shall be posted to the list, with the subject consisting of the word "Rule", followed by the number of the rule. I like this one too. p. From bernardo@c... Sat Dec 16 07:53:18 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 15:53:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 11356 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 15:53:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 15:53:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 16:54:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 15:53:17 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 15:53:12 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 302 Message-ID: <91g358+p1ue@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9170cu+6t0t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 624 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.168.70 From: bernardo@c... --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > A poll shall be created by the author of a new proposal, in order to facilitate the vote tabulating process. This one may or may not be problematic. It depends on whether these rules are intended to stand alone, or they are to be appended to a prior set - which set would specify voting procedure and the threshold for passage. For example, it's quite possible to require a super-majority rather than a mere majority, etc. So I'd say I vote to retable this one for further discussion. You see - nobody specified whether that was possible or not! From eventi@h... Sat Dec 16 09:40:08 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 17:40:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 39276 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 17:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 17:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 17:40:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 17:40:07 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:40:07 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 302 Message-ID: <91g9dn+cgd3@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <91g358+p1ue@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1023 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: "eventi " --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, bernardo@c... wrote: > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "eventi " wrote: > > A poll shall be created by the author of a new proposal, in order > to facilitate the vote tabulating process. > > This one may or may not be problematic. It depends on whether these > rules are intended to stand alone, or they are to be appended to a > prior set - which set would specify voting procedure and the > threshold for passage. For example, it's quite possible to require a > super-majority rather than a mere majority, etc. > > So I'd say I vote to retable this one for further discussion. You > see - nobody specified whether that was possible or not! I did intend this to go along with the previous rules... I posted them in the database section(link's on the right of the webpage). So it's unanimous for 2 rounds, then simple majority. Also, the poll is a feature from eGroups, not a generic term. Since this proposal was so botched, lemme re-propose it later. From eventi@h... Sat Dec 16 09:41:28 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 17:41:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 47406 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 17:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 17:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 17:41:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 17:41:27 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:41:20 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Rule 301 Message-ID: <91g9g0+nila@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <91g1op+plve@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 129 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: "eventi " Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. From eventi@h... Sat Dec 16 09:42:40 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Dec 2000 17:42:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 70174 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2000 17:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Dec 2000 17:42:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Dec 2000 17:42:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Dec 2000 17:42:32 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:42:23 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Rule 303 Message-ID: <91g9hv+4nmk@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <91g2fs+js9t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 130 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: "eventi " Enacted rules shall be posted to the list, with the subject consisting of the word "Rule", followed by the number of the rule. From eventi@h... Mon Dec 18 08:36:32 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 16:36:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 37173 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 16:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 16:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 17:37:31 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@h... Received: from [10.1.2.59] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 16:36:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:36:24 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Test Message Message-ID: <91lee8+104jq@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 12 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 209.73.237.163 From: "eventi " Hello There From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 10:48:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 18:48:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 34683 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 18:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 18:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 18:48:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.65]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBIImUv19887 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:48:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b901c06923$0c3bee80$41a811d0@computer> To: References: <91lee8+104jq@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Test Message Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:47:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hi. ----- Original Message ----- From: eventi To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:36 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Test Message > Hello There > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Dec 18 10:51:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 18:51:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 33242 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 18:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 18:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 18:51:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA15351 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:51:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Test Message Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:52:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 In-Reply-To: <00b901c06923$0c3bee80$41a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Yeah- I added my work account, then found out that we were blocking egroups.com from delivering email... And me with no one to bitch to. All's good now. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 1:48 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Test Message > > > Hi. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: eventi > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:36 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Test Message > > > > Hello There > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 13:57:42 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 21:57:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 2541 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 21:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 21:57:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 22:58:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.116] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Dec 2000 21:57:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:57:38 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Proposal 304 Message-ID: <91m18i+toct@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 648 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.168.69 From: "Al Farabi" A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game. B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a new rule. C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members. E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 14:05:58 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 22:05:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 48663 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 22:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 22:05:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 23:06:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBIM5nv39635 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:05:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0693e$9d235080$45a811d0@computer> To: References: <91m18i+toct@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:05:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Revision to 304: Render Part B to read, "The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction." p.bernardo. I was reading the part about dice, and only realized later - "duh!" - that that couldn't apply to this rule! ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Farabi To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:57 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > player into the game. > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > new rule. > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > (ten) or more members. > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Dec 18 14:06:55 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 22:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 67266 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 22:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 22:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 23:07:59 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA05069 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:07:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <91m18i+toct@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Sounds good- Since Proposals 302 and 303 were technically illegal, you have no obligation to post this to the list as a rule, but I would think you are swell for doing so. 10 points for you --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Farabi [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:58 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > player into the game. > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > new rule. > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > (ten) or more members. > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 14:26:45 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 22:26:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 34033 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 22:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 22:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 23:26:49 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBIMPcv41613 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:25:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401c06941$618e99a0$45a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:25:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, that'd be 13 points for me : (304-291)*1 I didn't see the rule about the rules being posted only singly, but it seems to me to be common parliamentary procedure to introduce a package of rules at one time. Since these all had, more or less, the same subject, I don't see why this couldn't be the case. Sort of like Nafta, which was a bundle of rule-changes guided by one purpose. But I guess that this is a bit of extra-legal reasoning. There oughta' be a law! ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:07 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > Sounds good- > Since Proposals 302 and 303 were technically illegal, you have no > obligation to post this to the list as a rule, but I would think you are > swell for doing so. 10 points for you > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Al Farabi [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:58 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > > > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > > player into the game. > > > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > > new rule. > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > > (ten) or more members. > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Dec 18 14:38:23 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 22:38:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 22782 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 22:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 22:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 22:38:22 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA07912 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:38:17 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:39:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <003401c06941$618e99a0$45a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" If you were referring to my 3 proposals, I think it violates the turn order (201) and 202 (a turn consists of...) If you were referring to yours... I didn't see a problem with that proposal, but I think it could have been challenged under 111. Since we don't have a 3rd Player, I would have been the judge, too. But when seperated, it would have been too ambiguous. I'm not so sure I'm convinced that packages are Good Things(tm)... They expedite things now, but later, they'll be shot down more easily on the basis of one of the parts... 13 Points it is. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:25 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > Actually, that'd be 13 points for me : (304-291)*1 > > I didn't see the rule about the rules being posted only singly, > but it seems > to me to be common parliamentary procedure to introduce a package of rules > at one time. Since these all had, more or less, the same subject, I don't > see why this couldn't be the case. Sort of like Nafta, which was a bundle > of rule-changes guided by one purpose. > > But I guess that this is a bit of extra-legal reasoning. > > There oughta' be a law! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:07 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > Sounds good- > > Since Proposals 302 and 303 were technically illegal, you have no > > obligation to post this to the list as a rule, but I would think you are > > swell for doing so. 10 points for you > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Al Farabi [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:58 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > > > > > > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > > > player into the game. > > > > > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > > > new rule. > > > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > > > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > > > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > > > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > > > (ten) or more members. > > > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > > > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Dec 18 14:40:57 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 22:40:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 7689 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 22:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 22:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 22:40:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA08164 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:40:54 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:41:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <002301c0693e$9d235080$45a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OUCH!!! I got this 25 minutes after voting... now what... I'd vote for the ammendment as well, and it makes more sense. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:05 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > Revision to 304: > > Render Part B to read, "The introducing Player shall receive 5 > (five) points > for an official Introduction." > > p.bernardo. > > I was reading the part about dice, and only realized later - "duh!" - that > that couldn't apply to this rule! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Al Farabi > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:57 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > > player into the game. > > > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > > new rule. > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > > (ten) or more members. > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 15:21:05 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 18 Dec 2000 23:21:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 28214 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2000 23:21:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Dec 2000 23:21:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2000 23:21:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.67]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBINL1v46657 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:21:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c06949$1e8c1580$43a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:20:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'd say to just amend it, and let it slide for now. I guess if we wanted to be sticklers about it, you could insist upon it being accepted in its original form, which you voted on. Unfortunately, though, according to 111, there is to be a suitable time for discussion and amendment, and the Proponent gets to say what the final form should be. I'd argue that my amendment (since it was SENT about 5 minutes after the original Proposal) falls under the suitable time threshold, and that, as Proponent, I'd insist that it take the amended form. Since we don't have a third to be judge, we'd be in a stalemate, probably. But if you like the amended form, we don't really need to go into these things. It can be unanimously adopted as amended. Oh yeah, I invited an ex-Fordhamite to join. I don't know if he will or not, but how does he (or anyone) go about actually getting in? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > OUCH!!! I got this 25 minutes after voting... now what... I'd vote for the > ammendment as well, and it makes more sense. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 5:05 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > > > Revision to 304: > > > > Render Part B to read, "The introducing Player shall receive 5 > > (five) points > > for an official Introduction." > > > > p.bernardo. > > > > I was reading the part about dice, and only realized later - "duh!" - that > > that couldn't apply to this rule! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Al Farabi > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:57 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 304 > > > > > > > A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > > > player into the game. > > > > > > B) Points shall be determined in the same manner as the passage of a > > > new rule. > > > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the > > > group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the > > > subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following > > > declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 > > > (ten) or more members. > > > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > > > referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Mon Dec 18 17:59:11 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 01:59:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 9444 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 01:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 01:59:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 03:00:10 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id eBJ2tdm16819 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:55:39 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id UAA28555; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:59:04 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Proposal 305 Message-Id: <15308871.1022@w...> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:59:04 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... "The My Cousin Paul Rule" If an action is required by a player, it must be made within one week. If the player does not act within one week, play continues as if that player were not in the game and that player loses 5 points. Note: I propose this as a safety measure against having a game become dormant due to lack of interrest of one player. My cousin Paul always does this... From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 19:55:06 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 03:55:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 81917 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 03:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 03:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 03:55:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-19.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.204]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBJ3t0v69796 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:55:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0696f$648380c0$cca811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1022@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:54:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hmm. I don't like it for a couple of reasons: 1) My next rule was going to cover this subject, but differently! (Hey, I'm being honest) 2) More importantly, it's too vague. Does "action" cover voting? I mean, if a person is apathetic, and kind of bails out of the game should they be penalized for not voting? It's the same thing with the vote here, plenty of people (close to half) didn't vote in this election. I'm inclined to count no-votes as yes votes. Or perhaps they should be discarded, and a prop's passage determined on the basis of the remaining votes. Either way, I'd rather see the rule phrased differently. 3) Will losing 5 points really discourage bailing out? If you really want to get tough, why not do something like a slavery rule? So, if a player does not propose a rule within a week, he/she is made a slave of (someone - highest bidder, point-wise, or something) and the slaves votes will be controlled by the master. Perhaps the slave account will be unable to propose new rules. Maybe there should be a time limit, say a week after declaration of interest in emancipation. Damn, now I gave you my rule. But really, this isn't a no vote - not yet - but I'd like to see it rewritten. (I'm assuming we're in the discussion phase, so you can still amend it... p. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:59 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 > "The My Cousin Paul Rule" > > If an action is required by a player, it must be made within one week. If the player does not act within one week, play continues as if that player were not in the game and that player loses 5 points. > > Note: I propose this as a safety measure against having a game become dormant due to lack of interrest of one player. My cousin Paul always does this... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Mon Dec 18 20:48:12 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 04:48:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 64736 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 04:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 04:48:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 05:49:17 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id eBJ5ikm27655 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:44:46 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id XAA23356; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:48:11 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 In-Reply-To: 696f648 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1023@w...> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:48:11 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Damn, you're evil... I originally only included failure to propose, but as the rules are written, if 50% abstain from a vote, the rule can't pass... I'd agree that non-votes could be construed as afirmatives, but I was trying make the proposal one broad one, instead of multiple smaller issues (rule 111 again). Re-write is on the way. From bernardo@c... Mon Dec 18 21:11:48 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 05:11:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 30700 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 05:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 05:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 05:11:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-19.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.204]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBJ5Bgv76185 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:11:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c0697a$1b9d63c0$cca811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1023@w...> Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:11:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Alright, since we're quoting chapter and verse here :), I should point out a couple of things: If you put together 111 and 116, you will see that it never directly says that compounded rules are illegal. I don't even think that the intent was such, as 111 only says that if a rule "arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded, ...then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote." It never says that such rules are illegal, but points out that it might be advisable to argue against that rule in discussion, and explicitly reserves judgement of the suitability of the rule to a debate and a vote. Therefore, using 116, we can say that compounded rules are ok as long as the public likes the particular case. (BTW, 103 does not specify that a rule change is exclusively one of the following three possibilities, and as such takes no stand on the issue of whether a rule change might consist of one or more rules.) The problem with your first (three) rules is that they were given different Prop. numbers, and not included under one. Besides, I don't see any problem with a proposal requiring logical steps, for example, to change 103 so that it might rule on this issue: Proposal Example - A) Proposition 103 is hereby made mutable B)Proposition 103 is hereby repealed C) A rule-change is any *one* of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa. The game might be more fun if you made each rule change consist of only one of the steps, so that you have to enact your rule in pieces, and someone might get there first. But as it stands, I think that compound rules are fine. Rule 105 already says that you have to vote. Perhaps the non-vote issue should be appended there. But first, you'd have to make 105 mutable... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:48 PM Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 > Damn, you're evil... I originally only included failure to propose, but as the rules are written, if 50% abstain from a vote, the rule can't pass... I'd agree that non-votes could be construed as afirmatives, but I was trying make the proposal one broad one, instead of multiple smaller issues (rule 111 again). Re-write is on the way. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@egroups.com Mon Dec 18 23:05:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81710 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 07:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 07:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 07:05:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.161] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Dec 2000 07:05:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 17393 invoked by uid 65534); 19 Dec 2000 07:05:36 -0000 Date: 19 Dec 2000 07:05:36 -0000 Message-ID: <977209536.17391@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /Rules Uploaded by : eventi@n... Description : The current Ruleset in handy TEXT format You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/Rules To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, eventi@n... From eventi@n... Mon Dec 18 23:07:41 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 07:07:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 85717 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 07:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 07:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 08:08:46 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA07156 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:07:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c0698a$2b1873c0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <15308871.1023@w...> <001301c0697a$1b9d63c0$cca811d0@computer> Subject: Re: Proposal 305 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:06:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Alright, since we're quoting chapter and verse here :), I should point out a > couple of things: > > If you put together 111 and 116, you will see that it never directly says > that compounded rules are illegal. I don't even think that the intent was > such, as 111 only says that if a rule "arguably consists of two or more > rule-changes compounded, ...then the other players may suggest amendments or > argue against the proposal before the vote." It never says that such rules > are illegal, but points out that it might be advisable to argue against that > rule in discussion, and explicitly reserves judgement of the suitability of > the rule to a debate and a vote. Therefore, using 116, we can say that > compounded rules are ok as long as the public likes the particular case. Agreed completely. I think 111 can be stripped down to "Other Players may suggest..." cutting the first 20 or so words. As long as there's no challenge, any proposal can be voted on and passed. But.... > (BTW, 103 does not specify that a rule change is exclusively one of the > following three possibilities, and as such takes no stand on the issue of > whether a rule change might consist of one or more rules.) The problem with > your first (three) rules is that they were given different Prop. numbers, > and not included under one. I disagree. I think 103 _defines_ rule-change as it is used throughout the initial set, and that definition is _clearly singular_. It has effect on 202: "One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on..." and thats why I withdrew 302 and 303. It can always be argued that a compound rule is one new rule, but you'd have a hard time with a rule that explicitly ammends more than one rule. > > Besides, I don't see any problem with a proposal requiring logical steps, > for example, to change 103 so that it might rule on this issue: Proposal > Example - A) Proposition 103 is hereby made mutable B)Proposition 103 is > hereby repealed C) A rule-change is any *one* of the following: (1) the > enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, > repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the > transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa. I see a big problem with it. See above, but that reads to me like 3 rule-changes, and quite distinct ones at that. The transmutation requires a unanimous vote, and parts B & C don't. I would vote for it, though ;) > > The game might be more fun if you made each rule change consist of only one > of the steps, so that you have to enact your rule in pieces, and someone > might get there first. But as it stands, I think that compound rules are > fine. > > Rule 105 already says that you have to vote. Perhaps the non-vote issue > should be appended there. But first, you'd have to make 105 mutable... Agreed, and again, I didn't take it into consideration when I proposed 305. It also does not prescribe a penalty, which I think is wisely left to the immutable rules. My proposal could be written to allow for an automatic abstain vote, cast in favor of the proposition, after a week of no activity. Rule 105 actually says the player has to participate, not necessarily for or against the proposition. If that's not good enough, I'll re-write to only effect proposals. Or maybe you have a better idea. BTW: 211 confuses me. If I add "This rule takes precedence over rule 105" to my proposal, does it then withstand a contest? If so, how is this different from "A) Transmute 105 B) Ammend to allow time limits?" I suppose it applies only to Mutable v. Mutable & Immutable v. Immutable contests. Anyway, I should definately be sleeping. --e > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:48 PM > Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Proposal 305 > > > > Damn, you're evil... I originally only included failure to propose, but as > the rules are written, if 50% abstain from a vote, the rule can't pass... > I'd agree that non-votes could be construed as afirmatives, but I was trying > make the proposal one broad one, instead of multiple smaller issues (rule > 111 again). Re-write is on the way. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Dec 19 07:23:22 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 15:23:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 12460 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 15:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 15:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 15:22:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04403 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:22:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: Proposal 305 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:23:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002001c0698a$2b1873c0$126d1d40@v...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Since I don't think it'll pass as stated, and restricting the proposal only to cover failure to propose would weaken the intention of the rule, and there's an issue with Rule 105, I'd like to propose that 105 be transmuted to become a mutable rule. From bernardo@c... Tue Dec 19 08:08:36 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 16:08:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 60128 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 16:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 16:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 16:08:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.63]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBJG8Qv25207 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:08:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c069d5$db11c7e0$3fa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Well, now we have an issue. We need another player. I don't mean to be a jerk about this, but doesn't this run afoul of the turn rule? I'd imagine that you can't propose a rule, see that it's going to fail, and then withdraw it and propose a new one. If that were so, nobody would ever "lose" on their turn. Besides, the rules only allow for amendment of a rule. The change that you want to make seems to go beyond amendment and into a proposition of a whole new rule. I'd want to call for judgement on this one... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:23 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > Since I don't think it'll pass as stated, and restricting the proposal only > to cover failure to propose would weaken the intention of the rule, and > there's an issue with Rule 105, I'd like to propose that 105 be transmuted > to become a mutable rule. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Dec 19 09:42:12 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 19 Dec 2000 17:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 60263 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2000 17:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Dec 2000 17:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Dec 2000 18:43:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18214 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:42:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:42:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000701c069d5$db11c7e0$3fa811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think it "runs afoul", but: (i realized after typing this that it's in no particular order) A) 111 says "...other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote" This doesn't limit changes I can make to the proposal to ammendments only; If it has any limitation, it's on you. Furthermore, "The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on." B) There's nothing allowing a proponent to revise his proposal except Rule 111, when it's been challenged. I could have challenged your change to 304, and I wouldn't be able to change a proposal once voting started. So it's always possible to lose one's proposal, I could lose if you'd vote... C) With 2 players, if you call for judgement, I'd win! You invoke judgement and act as judge; I (acting as ALL the other players) overrule your judgement. Judgement passes through me (since it's my turn,) and back to you. I'd win by 213, since "the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality", and I'm unable to complete my turn. "There oughta be a law..." --Pat Bernardo D) It does suck, but you pointed out that my proposal was contrary to 105. It could have been written "A)Transmute 105, B)Amend time limits and associated penalties." This is clearly 2 rule changes, and the remedy would be "Do part A, since B depends on it." The only remedy I had was to reduce it to the implied transmutation in the original. If you vote against it as it was, it sinks; Vote for it, and it's nullified by Rule 110. My change in the proposal seems to be the only possible remedy for a proposal that would enact a rule contradicting an immutable rule. I know I'm being a prick, so vote already!! --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:08 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > Well, now we have an issue. We need another player. I don't mean to be a > jerk about this, but doesn't this run afoul of the turn rule? I'd imagine > that you can't propose a rule, see that it's going to fail, and then > withdraw it and propose a new one. If that were so, nobody would ever > "lose" on their turn. Besides, the rules only allow for amendment > of a rule. > The change that you want to make seems to go beyond amendment and into a > proposition of a whole new rule. I'd want to call for judgement on this > one... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:23 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > Since I don't think it'll pass as stated, and restricting the proposal > only > > to cover failure to propose would weaken the intention of the rule, and > > there's an issue with Rule 105, I'd like to propose that 105 be > transmuted > > to become a mutable rule. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Dec 21 07:54:10 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 21 Dec 2000 15:54:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 91571 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 15:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2000 15:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 15:36:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.63]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBLFaAv91769 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:36:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002f01c06b63$aca1e7c0$3fa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:35:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I stand before you today a very disappointed citizen. This is a sad day for Scatterbrains democracy. Eugene has exploited a loophole in the law, and in a move that flouts the spirit - if not indeed the letter - has forced a proposal down our throats. Although I will vote for this proposal, as reform is desperately needed in our young system, this behaviour must be stopped. I pledge to you today, that I will not cease in my efforts until (etc...) Oh, ok. But if there were a judge around here, you would've lost. (ps - but isn't being a legalistic prick what this game is about?) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:42 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > I think it "runs afoul", but: > > (i realized after typing this that it's in no particular order) > > A) 111 says "...other players may suggest amendments or argue against the > proposal before the vote" This doesn't limit changes I can make to the > proposal to ammendments only; If it has any limitation, it's on you. > Furthermore, "The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is > to be voted on." > > B) There's nothing allowing a proponent to revise his proposal except Rule > 111, when it's been challenged. I could have challenged your change to 304, > and I wouldn't be able to change a proposal once voting started. So it's > always possible to lose one's proposal, I could lose if you'd vote... > > C) With 2 players, if you call for judgement, I'd win! You invoke judgement > and act as judge; I (acting as ALL the other players) overrule your > judgement. Judgement passes through me (since it's my turn,) and back to > you. I'd win by 213, since "the legality of a move cannot be determined > with finality", and I'm unable to complete my turn. "There oughta be a > law..." --Pat Bernardo > > D) It does suck, but you pointed out that my proposal was contrary to 105. > It could have been written "A)Transmute 105, B)Amend time limits and > associated penalties." This is clearly 2 rule changes, and the remedy would > be "Do part A, since B depends on it." > > The only remedy I had was to reduce it to the implied transmutation in the > original. If you vote against it as it was, it sinks; Vote for it, and it's > nullified by Rule 110. My change in the proposal seems to be the only > possible remedy for a proposal that would enact a rule contradicting an > immutable rule. > > I know I'm being a prick, so vote already!! > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:08 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > > > Well, now we have an issue. We need another player. I don't mean to be a > > jerk about this, but doesn't this run afoul of the turn rule? I'd imagine > > that you can't propose a rule, see that it's going to fail, and then > > withdraw it and propose a new one. If that were so, nobody would ever > > "lose" on their turn. Besides, the rules only allow for amendment > > of a rule. > > The change that you want to make seems to go beyond amendment and into a > > proposition of a whole new rule. I'd want to call for judgement on this > > one... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:23 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > > > > Since I don't think it'll pass as stated, and restricting the proposal > > only > > > to cover failure to propose would weaken the intention of the rule, and > > > there's an issue with Rule 105, I'd like to propose that 105 be > > transmuted > > > to become a mutable rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Dec 21 08:31:13 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 21 Dec 2000 16:31:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 610 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 16:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Dec 2000 16:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 16:21:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20604 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:21:40 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002f01c06b63$aca1e7c0$3fa811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I commend you, and thank you... And since you can't change your vote now ;> In admitting that I "expoited a loophole" do you admit that it was legal? I think that's what the games about... At least being a legalistic prick makes it more fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 10:36 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > I stand before you today a very disappointed citizen. This is a > sad day for > Scatterbrains democracy. Eugene has exploited a loophole in the > law, and in > a move that flouts the spirit - if not indeed the letter - has forced a > proposal down our throats. Although I will vote for this proposal, as > reform is desperately needed in our young system, this behaviour must be > stopped. I pledge to you today, that I will not cease in my efforts until > (etc...) > > Oh, ok. But if there were a judge around here, you would've lost. > > (ps - but isn't being a legalistic prick what this game is about?) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:42 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > I think it "runs afoul", but: > > > > (i realized after typing this that it's in no particular order) > > > > A) 111 says "...other players may suggest amendments or argue > against the > > proposal before the vote" This doesn't limit changes I can make to the > > proposal to ammendments only; If it has any limitation, it's on you. > > Furthermore, "The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal > is > > to be voted on." > > > > B) There's nothing allowing a proponent to revise his proposal > except Rule > > 111, when it's been challenged. I could have challenged your change to > 304, > > and I wouldn't be able to change a proposal once voting > started. So it's > > always possible to lose one's proposal, I could lose if you'd vote... > > > > C) With 2 players, if you call for judgement, I'd win! You invoke > judgement > > and act as judge; I (acting as ALL the other players) overrule your > > judgement. Judgement passes through me (since it's my turn,) > and back to > > you. I'd win by 213, since "the legality of a move cannot be determined > > with finality", and I'm unable to complete my turn. "There oughta be a > > law..." --Pat Bernardo > > > > D) It does suck, but you pointed out that my proposal was > contrary to 105. > > It could have been written "A)Transmute 105, B)Amend time limits and > > associated penalties." This is clearly 2 rule changes, and the remedy > would > > be "Do part A, since B depends on it." > > > > The only remedy I had was to reduce it to the implied > transmutation in the > > original. If you vote against it as it was, it sinks; Vote for it, and > it's > > nullified by Rule 110. My change in the proposal seems to be the only > > possible remedy for a proposal that would enact a rule contradicting an > > immutable rule. > > > > I know I'm being a prick, so vote already!! > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:08 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > > > > > > Well, now we have an issue. We need another player. I don't > mean to be > a > > > jerk about this, but doesn't this run afoul of the turn rule? I'd > imagine > > > that you can't propose a rule, see that it's going to fail, and then > > > withdraw it and propose a new one. If that were so, nobody would ever > > > "lose" on their turn. Besides, the rules only allow for amendment > > > of a rule. > > > The change that you want to make seems to go beyond amendment > and into a > > > proposition of a whole new rule. I'd want to call for > judgement on this > > > one... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:23 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] RE: Proposal 305 > > > > > > > > > > Since I don't think it'll pass as stated, and restricting > the proposal > > > only > > > > to cover failure to propose would weaken the intention of the rule, > and > > > > there's an issue with Rule 105, I'd like to propose that 105 be > > > transmuted > > > > to become a mutable rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Dec 28 05:46:16 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 28 Dec 2000 13:46:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 83364 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2000 13:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Dec 2000 13:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Dec 2000 13:46:14 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24553 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:42:46 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03725A@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: Introduction Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:42:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Hello All This is my official introduction. E Venti has introduced me to Scatterbrains. Regards, B Arturo * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Sat Dec 30 16:53:27 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 31 Dec 2000 00:53:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 37977 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2000 00:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2000 00:53:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Dec 2000 00:53:27 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.62]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id eBV0rPv99242 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:53:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c072c4$020655e0$3ea811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03725A@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:52:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Uhh. I have a question that I'd like to get clarified, if that's ok with y'all. According to the rules, each turn is conducted in alphabetical order. That puts Bob first. Since we just ended a turn (Eug went last) does that mean it's Bob's turn? Or is it that it was kind of "my turn" after Eug went, so Bob entered after my turn started, and he has to wait for me to go and Eug to go. p ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:42 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > Hello All > This is my official introduction. E Venti has introduced me to > Scatterbrains. > > Regards, > B Arturo > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sat Dec 30 22:11:39 2000 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 31 Dec 2000 06:11:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 44538 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2000 06:11:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Dec 2000 06:11:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Dec 2000 06:11:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@n... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Dec 2000 06:11:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 06:11:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <92mimm+99es@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000b01c072c4$020655e0$3ea811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1305 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: eventi@n... I'd say it's your turn. It's been your turn since mine was over. --e --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Uhh. I have a question that I'd like to get clarified, if that's ok with > y'all. According to the rules, each turn is conducted in alphabetical > order. That puts Bob first. Since we just ended a turn (Eug went last) > does that mean it's Bob's turn? Or is it that it was kind of "my turn" > after Eug went, so Bob entered after my turn started, and he has to wait for > me to go and Eug to go. > > p > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:42 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > Hello All > > This is my official introduction. E Venti has introduced me to > > Scatterbrains. > > > > Regards, > > B Arturo > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > From scatterbrains@egroups.com Mon Jan 01 10:12:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 93573 invoked by uid 7800); 1 Jan 2001 18:12:17 -0000 Date: 1 Jan 2001 18:12:17 -0000 Message-ID: <978372737.65712@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: File - Rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points. In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) throwing one die once and adding the number of points on its face to one's score. In mail and computer games, instead of throwing a die, players subtract 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.) -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates. The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence. If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence. If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment. When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. -- Mutable -- Author: E Venti -- History: Proposal 301 ---- 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game. B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction. C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members. E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. -- Mutable -- Author: Pat Bernardo -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) ---- 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) ---- From eventi@w... Mon Jan 01 12:42:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 1 Jan 2001 20:42:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24728 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2001 20:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jan 2001 20:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jan 2001 21:43:56 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f01Lcrm13704 for ; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 13:38:53 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id PAA12960; Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:42:50 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Rules file Message-Id: <15308871.1072@w...> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 12:42:50 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... The mailing list sends it every 2 weeks, and right after you subscribe... From bernardo@c... Tue Jan 02 17:35:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 01:35:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 68639 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 01:35:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 01:35:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 02:36:21 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f031Ylv93007 for ; Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:34:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003001c07525$484fc140$45a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 306 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:34:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01C074FB.5CFBE800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C074FB.5CFBE800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. Rule: One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule, which= is not substantially alterable 2)discussion and amendment phase, which beg= ins immediately following the proposal 3) voting on the rule 4) scoring. Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produc= ed by the ratio of postive to negative votes. All remainders should be rou= nded up. __ I think that this should do it. Written this way, the extent of amendment = should be open-ended (there's no way that I can think of at present to writ= e a rule to cover what amendments look like) and determined on a case by ca= se basis, open to calls to Judgement. I don't like the present scoring system. This seems right - it keeps the p= oints about where they are, and rewards people for popular measures. p. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C074FB.5CFBE800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This rule will change rule 202 to clarify = things a=20 bit.
 
Rule:
One turn consists of four parts, in t= his order=20 1) proposal of a rule, which is not substantially alterable 2)discussion an= d=20 amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal 3) voting = on=20 the rule 4) scoring.
 
Scoring shall be 15 points for each r= ule,=20 multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive to negative=20 votes.  All remainders should be rounded up.
 
__
I think that this should do it.  Writ= ten this=20 way, the extent of amendment should be open-ended (there's no way that I ca= n=20 think of at present to write a rule to cover what amendments look like) and= =20 determined on a case by case basis, open to calls to Judgement.
 
I don't like the present scoring system.&n= bsp; This=20 seems right - it keeps the points about where they are, and rewards people = for=20 popular measures.
 
p.
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C074FB.5CFBE800-- From eventi@n... Tue Jan 02 20:58:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 04:58:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16597 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 04:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 04:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 05:59:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@n... Received: from [10.1.2.74] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2001 04:58:07 -0000 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 04:58:06 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 306 Message-ID: <92ubgu+ujia@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003001c07525$484fc140$45a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1289 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: eventi@n... Only a few things, and minor ones at that. A) The language in part one, "which is not substantially alterable," should be clarified. It's possibly better suited to part two. B) There should be a clearly defined ending to phase two, to prevent partial vote abortions (Ouch...) Other than that, I'm cool. --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > Rule: > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule, which is not substantially alterable 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal 3) voting on the rule 4) scoring. > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive to negative votes. All remainders should be rounded up. > > __ > I think that this should do it. Written this way, the extent of amendment should be open-ended (there's no way that I can think of at present to write a rule to cover what amendments look like) and determined on a case by case basis, open to calls to Judgement. > > I don't like the present scoring system. This seems right - it keeps the points about where they are, and rewards people for popular measures. > > p. From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 03 06:42:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 14:42:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 45435 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 14:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 14:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 15:43:37 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.62]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f03EgKv46985 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:42:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c07593$51c85660$3ea811d0@computer> To: References: <92ubgu+ujia@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:41:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. Rule: One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All remainders should be rounded up. ___ Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think before we go with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the beginning of the vote: A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be cut off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since you'd have to wait to vote. C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting possibilitiy, but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I might even propose this one. D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. From eventi@n... Wed Jan 03 09:05:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 17:05:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 88361 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 17:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 17:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 17:05:14 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02232 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:05:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:05:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000a01c07593$51c85660$3ea811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. Remainders are for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores are rounded up to the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to weigh in on the second question when I've got more time. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > Rule: > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > but may not > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > begins when > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > remainders should be rounded up. > ___ > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > before we go > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the > beginning of the vote: > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be cut > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since you'd > have to wait to vote. > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting possibilitiy, > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I might > even propose this one. > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 03 10:14:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 18:14:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 20069 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 18:13:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 18:13:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 19:15:00 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.68]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f03IDqv65613 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:13:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c075b0$da64b1e0$44a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:12:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer." ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. Remainders are > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores are rounded up to > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to weigh in > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > Rule: > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > but may not > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > begins when > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > > remainders should be rounded up. > > ___ > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > before we go > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the > > beginning of the vote: > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be cut > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since you'd > > have to wait to vote. > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting possibilitiy, > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I might > > even propose this one. > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 03 10:24:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 18:24:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 3077 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 18:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 18:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 18:24:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA11462 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:24:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:25:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000901c075b0$da64b1e0$44a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You still with us Bob? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:13 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. > > Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest > integer." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. > Remainders are > > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores are rounded up > to > > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to weigh > in > > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > > > Rule: > > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately > following the > > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > > but may not > > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > > begins when > > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > > > remainders should be rounded up. > > > ___ > > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > > before we go > > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the > > > beginning of the vote: > > > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be > cut > > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since > you'd > > > have to wait to vote. > > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting > possibilitiy, > > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I > might > > > even propose this one. > > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is > > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Wed Jan 03 10:41:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 18:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 18789 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 18:41:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 18:41:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 18:41:44 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13270 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:41:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:38:02 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037263@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:37:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Yea. I'm just waiting for the final proposal. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:25 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 You still with us Bob? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:13 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. > > Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest > integer." > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. > Remainders are > > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores are rounded up > to > > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to weigh > in > > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > > > Rule: > > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately > following the > > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > > but may not > > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > > begins when > > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > > > remainders should be rounded up. > > > ___ > > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > > before we go > > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the > > > beginning of the vote: > > > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be > cut > > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since > you'd > > > have to wait to vote. > > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting > possibilitiy, > > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I > might > > > even propose this one. > > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is > > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 03 14:10:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 22:10:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 2819 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 22:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 22:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 22:10:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.71]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f03MALv87254 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:10:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c075d1$e336adc0$47a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037263@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:09:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Wise ass. Here's the final form. Please vote as you see fit. I vote for it. This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. Rule: One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > Yea. I'm just waiting for the final proposal. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:25 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > You still with us Bob? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:13 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. > > > > Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest > > integer." > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. > > Remainders are > > > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores are rounded up > > to > > > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to weigh > > in > > > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > > > > > Rule: > > > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately > > following the > > > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > > > but may not > > > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > > > begins when > > > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > > > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > > > > remainders should be rounded up. > > > > ___ > > > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > > > before we go > > > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for the > > > > beginning of the vote: > > > > > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is good/long it might be > > cut > > > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is also bad since > > you'd > > > > have to wait to vote. > > > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting > > possibilitiy, > > > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more people, I > > might > > > > even propose this one. > > > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting phase. This is > > > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 03 15:00:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 3 Jan 2001 23:00:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 21891 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2001 23:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2001 23:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jan 2001 23:00:10 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA09655 for ; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:00:10 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:00:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001301c075d1$e336adc0$47a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I vote for it, and that bob wan't being a wise ass > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 5:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > Wise ass. > > Here's the final form. Please vote as you see fit. I vote for it. > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > Rule: > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > but may not > include the substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins > when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:37 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > Yea. I'm just waiting for the final proposal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:25 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > You still with us Bob? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:13 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. > > > > > > Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to > the nearest > > > integer." > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. > > > Remainders are > > > > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores > are rounded > up > > > to > > > > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to > weigh > > > in > > > > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > > > > > > > Rule: > > > > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) > proposal of a rule > > > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately > > > following the > > > > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > > > > but may not > > > > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > > > > begins when > > > > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by > the fraction > > > > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible > votes. All > > > > > remainders should be rounded up. > > > > > ___ > > > > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > > > > before we go > > > > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for > the > > > > > beginning of the vote: > > > > > > > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > > > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is > good/long it might > be > > > cut > > > > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is > also bad since > > > you'd > > > > > have to wait to vote. > > > > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting > > > possibilitiy, > > > > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more > people, I > > > might > > > > > even propose this one. > > > > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting > phase. This is > > > > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Jan 04 05:36:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 13:36:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 50032 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 13:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 13:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 14:37:19 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23503 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:36:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:32:27 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03726C@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:32:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Ok It sounds good to me. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 6:01 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 I vote for it, and that bob wan't being a wise ass > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 5:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > Wise ass. > > Here's the final form. Please vote as you see fit. I vote for it. > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > Rule: > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) proposal of a rule > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > but may not > include the substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins > when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:37 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > Yea. I'm just waiting for the final proposal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:25 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > You still with us Bob? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:13 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > Doh! That is what I meant. You math geek. > > > > > > Change to read "All fractional scores shall be rounded up to > the nearest > > > integer." > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:05 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > > Only one small thing: The wording of the scoring paragraph. > > > Remainders are > > > > for division, but I know you meant "All fractional scores > are rounded > up > > > to > > > > the nearest integer." I'll pass it as it stands, but I'll have to > weigh > > > in > > > > on the second question when I've got more time. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 306 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This rule will change rule 202 to clarify things a bit. > > > > > > > > > > Rule: > > > > > One turn consists of four parts, in this order 1) > proposal of a rule > > > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately > > > following the > > > > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, > > > > > but may not > > > > > included substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which > > > > > begins when > > > > > the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. > > > > > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by > the fraction > > > > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible > votes. All > > > > > remainders should be rounded up. > > > > > ___ > > > > > Ok, this should fix things, but I'd like to hear what you think > > > > > before we go > > > > > with it. The way that I saw it, there are four possibilities for > the > > > > > beginning of the vote: > > > > > > > > > > A)What I chose - self selecting by proposer > > > > > B) Time limit - bad because if the discussion is > good/long it might > be > > > cut > > > > > off by the limit. If there is no discussion, this is > also bad since > > > you'd > > > > > have to wait to vote. > > > > > C) Creating an executive to call for votes. An interesting > > > possibilitiy, > > > > > but I though you guys might not like it. If we have more > people, I > > > might > > > > > even propose this one. > > > > > D) Just letting the first vote introduce the voting > phase. This is > > > > > obviously a bad idea, since someone might jump the gun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From f_hemker@h... Thu Jan 04 07:42:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 15:42:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 35393 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 15:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 15:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mo.egroups.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 15:42:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2001 15:42:51 -0000 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:42:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <9325lh+kvev@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 53 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 198.78.181.175 From: "Fritz Hemker" Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 04 10:27:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 18:27:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 10954 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 18:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 18:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 18:26:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.68]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f04IQOv84523 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:26:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000601c0767b$c480bc40$44a811d0@computer> To: References: <9325lh+kvev@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:25:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Welcome Fritz! It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I guess that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, and since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by me, followed by Fritz, followed by Eug. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fritz Hemker To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Jan 04 11:06:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 19:06:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 89332 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 19:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 19:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 19:06:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA25673 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:06:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:06:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000601c0767b$c480bc40$44a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at 8:36, and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I really don't even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, being a legalistic prick is half the fun. And Welcome Fritz. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > Welcome Fritz! > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I guess > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, and > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by me, followed by > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > p. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fritz Hemker > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Jan 04 11:44:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 19:44:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 83480 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 19:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 19:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 19:44:26 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00165 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:44:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:40:25 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037277@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:40:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Hello Fritz How can it be his turn. I didn't get a turn when I joined. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:07 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at 8:36, and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I really don't even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, being a legalistic prick is half the fun. And Welcome Fritz. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > Welcome Fritz! > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I guess > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, and > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by me, followed by > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > p. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fritz Hemker > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 04 11:54:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 19:54:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 18514 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 19:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 19:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 20:55:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.68]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f04Jskv92952 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:54:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c07688$1cfac440$44a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:54:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I don't think that I ever got Bob's vote for my prop. So you're right, it's not Fritz's turn, it's your turn. Damn, you guys jump all over me... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:06 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at 8:36, > and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I really don't > even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, being > a legalistic prick is half the fun. > > And Welcome Fritz. > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > Welcome Fritz! > > > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I guess > > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, and > > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by me, followed by > > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > > > p. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Fritz Hemker > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Jan 04 12:20:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 20:20:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 7155 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 20:20:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 20:20:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 21:22:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04185 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:20:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:21:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000701c07688$1cfac440$44a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" There oughtta be a law... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:54 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > I don't think that I ever got Bob's vote for my prop. So you're > right, it's > not Fritz's turn, it's your turn. > > Damn, you guys jump all over me... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:06 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at > 8:36, > > and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I > really don't > > even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, > being > > a legalistic prick is half the fun. > > > > And Welcome Fritz. > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > Welcome Fritz! > > > > > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I > guess > > > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, > and > > > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by > me, followed > by > > > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Fritz Hemker > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Jan 04 12:24:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 20:24:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 55049 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 20:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 20:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 20:24:49 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04608 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:20:59 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037279@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:20:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Ok I voted this morning. Now who goes I thought it was E then to me then Bat then Fritz then E.... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:22 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction There oughtta be a law... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:54 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > I don't think that I ever got Bob's vote for my prop. So you're > right, it's > not Fritz's turn, it's your turn. > > Damn, you guys jump all over me... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:06 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at > 8:36, > > and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I > really don't > > even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, > being > > a legalistic prick is half the fun. > > > > And Welcome Fritz. > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > Welcome Fritz! > > > > > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I > guess > > > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to be followed, > and > > > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by > me, followed > by > > > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Fritz Hemker > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Thu Jan 04 12:40:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 4 Jan 2001 20:40:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 57861 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2001 20:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Jan 2001 20:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jan 2001 21:40:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA06251 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:39:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:40:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037279@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It's me... I'll write it up when I get the time. The order ( in glorious ASCII !!! ) YOU ARE HERE -> EV, BA, PB, FK --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:21 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > Ok I voted this morning. Now who goes I thought it was E then to > me then Bat > then Fritz then E.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:22 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > There oughtta be a law... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:54 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > I don't think that I ever got Bob's vote for my prop. So you're > > right, it's > > not Fritz's turn, it's your turn. > > > > Damn, you guys jump all over me... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:06 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > Um, how's it your (Pat's) turn still? Bob's vote this morning was at > > 8:36, > > > and Fritz joined at 10:43. I don't care either way, (since I > > really don't > > > even have time to be writing this), but as we've already established, > > being > > > a legalistic prick is half the fun. > > > > > > And Welcome Fritz. > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 1:26 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome Fritz! > > > > > > > > It also seems that you go next, (after voting on my bill is done - I > > guess > > > > that you should vote, too!). If alphabetical order is to > be followed, > > and > > > > since it's still my turn, the order'll be Bob, followed by > > me, followed > > by > > > > Fritz, followed by Eug. > > > > > > > > p. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Fritz Hemker > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 05 06:52:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 14:52:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 5391 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 14:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 14:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jan 2001 15:53:21 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.68]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f05EqFa53668 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:52:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c07727$03bb2480$44a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:51:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > The order ( in glorious ASCII !!! ) > YOU ARE HERE -> EV, BA, PB, FK ^^ should be FH. From eventi@n... Fri Jan 05 06:57:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 14:57:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 6678 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 14:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 14:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jan 2001 14:57:21 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA11847 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:57:19 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:58:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000d01c07727$03bb2480$44a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I meant to correct that, but I had already been polluting the list too much yesterday. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 9:52 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction > > > > The order ( in glorious ASCII !!! ) > > YOU ARE HERE -> EV, BA, PB, FK > ^^ > should be FH. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Jan 05 12:42:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 20:42:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 15112 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 20:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 20:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jan 2001 20:30:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16242 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:30:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Proposal 307 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:31:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This is the best I could come up with before the end of the week... So much to do. --e --- Begin Proposal Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created by a proposal, describing the responsibilities of the office, the manner in which officers are selected, and the method of compensation (if any) the officer is to receive. --- End Proposal Possible offices include, but are not limited to Scorekeeper, Scribe (both of which are currently being held unofficially by me.), as well as Historian and Parliamentarian. It may soon become difficult for me to keep on top of recording scores and keeping the rules file up to date, and at such time I'd like to request that an Office be created, so that such responsibilities can be shared among the players. I was seriously considering a package of strict parliamentary rules, like "You gotta say FINAL for a proposal to be final." I was also considering proposing the keeping of an official history document, when it occurred to me that it's an opportunity for players to earn income, and some sort of economic system could develop from it... Anyway, it seems interresting. From f_hemker@h... Fri Jan 05 13:11:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 21:11:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 50790 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 21:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 21:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jan 2001 22:04:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.41] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2001 21:03:54 -0000 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:03:40 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 307 Message-ID: <935crc+a8rf@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1902 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.114.111 From: "Fritz Hemker" You should include a bit about the tenure of an office and whether one can be removed from an office, for what reasons, and how. I think those considerations ought to be understood before offices are created, as opposed to being detailed in the description of the specific offices themselves. Other questions: Should office be created with a simple majority? Should the creation of the office be seperate from filling it? Should offices exist forever, never needing reauthorization, or will their very existence be limited? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > This is the best I could come up with before the end of the week... So much > to do. > --e > > --- Begin Proposal > > Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be > referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created by a proposal, > describing the responsibilities of the office, the manner in which officers > are selected, and the method of compensation (if any) the officer is to > receive. > > --- End Proposal > > Possible offices include, but are not limited to Scorekeeper, Scribe (both > of which are currently being held unofficially by me.), as well as Historian > and Parliamentarian. > > It may soon become difficult for me to keep on top of recording scores and > keeping the rules file up to date, and at such time I'd like to request that > an Office be created, so that such responsibilities can be shared among the > players. > > I was seriously considering a package of strict parliamentary rules, like > "You gotta say FINAL for a proposal to be final." I was also considering > proposing the keeping of an official history document, when it occurred to > me that it's an opportunity for players to earn income, and some sort of > economic system could develop from it... Anyway, From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 05 13:32:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 21:32:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 7322 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 21:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 21:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jan 2001 21:31:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.66]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f05LVra91558 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:31:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c0775e$d9992f20$42a811d0@computer> To: References: <935crc+a8rf@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 307 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:31:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I think that tenure requirements (and filling) should be handled on an office-by-office basis. Why do you disagree? For instance, secretary (or scribe) would have a much longer tenure than grand poobah, I imagine. As it stands, if offices are created by proposal (as per this proposal), then a simple majority would be enough to create one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fritz Hemker To: Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 4:03 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 307 > You should include a bit about the tenure of an office and whether one > can be removed from an office, for what reasons, and how. I think > those considerations ought to be understood before offices are > created, as opposed to being detailed in the description of the > specific offices themselves. > > Other questions: > Should office be created with a simple majority? Should the creation > of the office be seperate from filling it? Should offices exist > forever, never needing reauthorization, or will their very existence > be limited? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > This is the best I could come up with before the end of the week... > So much > > to do. > > --e > > > > --- Begin Proposal > > > > Offices: > > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, > shall be > > referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created by a > proposal, > > describing the responsibilities of the office, the manner in which > officers > > are selected, and the method of compensation (if any) the officer > is to > > receive. > > > > --- End Proposal > > > > Possible offices include, but are not limited to Scorekeeper, > Scribe (both > > of which are currently being held unofficially by me.), as well as > Historian > > and Parliamentarian. > > > > It may soon become difficult for me to keep on top of recording > scores and > > keeping the rules file up to date, and at such time I'd like to > request that > > an Office be created, so that such responsibilities can be shared > among the > > players. > > > > I was seriously considering a package of strict parliamentary > rules, like > > "You gotta say FINAL for a proposal to be final." I was also > considering > > proposing the keeping of an official history document, when it > occurred to > > me that it's an opportunity for players to earn income, and some > sort of > > economic system could develop from it... Anyway, > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Jan 05 15:10:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 5 Jan 2001 23:10:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 95529 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2001 23:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2001 23:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2001 00:10:38 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA00756 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:09:32 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 307 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:10:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <935crc+a8rf@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You've got some interesting points, but I don't think at this point I'd like to rule out creating a variety of types of offices. I'm not entirely opposed to adding a laundry list of requirements for the proposal to _create_ an office, but I don't think it's strictly required of this proposal. I'll refine that list a bit, and re-propose later. I do think that the creation of the Office should be seperate from the nomination/election/selection of the Officer. I'll need some time to think it over. Thanks for the feedback, and again, welcome aboard. --e > > You should include a bit about the tenure of an office and whether one > can be removed from an office, for what reasons, and how. I think > those considerations ought to be understood before offices are > created, as opposed to being detailed in the description of the > specific offices themselves. > > Other questions: > Should office be created with a simple majority? Should the creation > of the office be seperate from filling it? Should offices exist > forever, never needing reauthorization, or will their very existence > be limited? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > This is the best I could come up with before the end of the week... > So much > > to do. > > --e > > > > --- Begin Proposal > > > > Offices: > > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, > shall be > > referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created by a > proposal, > > describing the responsibilities of the office, the manner in which > officers > > are selected, and the method of compensation (if any) the officer > is to > > receive. > > > > --- End Proposal > > > > Possible offices include, but are not limited to Scorekeeper, > Scribe (both > > of which are currently being held unofficially by me.), as well as > Historian > > and Parliamentarian. > > > > It may soon become difficult for me to keep on top of recording > scores and > > keeping the rules file up to date, and at such time I'd like to > request that > > an Office be created, so that such responsibilities can be shared > among the > > players. > > > > I was seriously considering a package of strict parliamentary > rules, like > > "You gotta say FINAL for a proposal to be final." I was also > considering > > proposing the keeping of an official history document, when it > occurred to > > me that it's an opportunity for players to earn income, and some > sort of > > economic system could develop from it... Anyway, > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sat Jan 06 22:40:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Jan 2001 06:40:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 6107 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2001 06:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2001 06:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Jan 2001 06:40:00 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA21962 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 01:40:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c07874$8cb53840$126d1d40@v...> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 01:39:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" --- Begin Revised Proposal Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal shall include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office --- End Revised Proposal From bernardo@c... Sun Jan 07 08:01:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Jan 2001 16:01:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 35058 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2001 16:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2001 16:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Jan 2001 17:02:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.73]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f07G1la82076 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:01:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c078c3$0f605060$49a811d0@computer> To: References: <001101c07874$8cb53840$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:01:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I think that you should change "shall" to "must". Nit-picky, but more precise. If that change is made, I vote for it. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:39 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 > --- Begin Revised Proposal > > Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be > referred to as an "Office." > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > The proposal shall include: > Responsibilities of the office > The method of selection of officers > Term of office, and method of succession > The method of removal from office > > --- End Revised Proposal > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sun Jan 07 10:45:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 7 Jan 2001 18:45:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 12212 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2001 18:45:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2001 18:45:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Jan 2001 19:46:12 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20552 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:45:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c078d9$d7be8e80$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <001101c07874$8cb53840$126d1d40@v...> <000701c078c3$0f605060$49a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:44:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" --- Begin Revised Proposal Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal must include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office --- End Revised Proposal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 > I think that you should change "shall" to "must". Nit-picky, but more > precise. If that change is made, I vote for it. > p. From eventi@n... Mon Jan 08 10:31:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 8 Jan 2001 18:31:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 77334 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2001 18:30:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2001 18:30:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 18:30:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA04733 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:30:49 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: To: References: <001101c07874$8cb53840$126d1d40@v...> <000701c078c3$0f605060$49a811d0@computer> Subject: Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:31:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-UIDL: b6de5da5af51985dfad6fdce1347e0ef List-Unsubscribe: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Sender: eventi@n... Importance: Normal X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2562747-69-978893108-eventi=nyic.com@returns.onelist.com From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal must include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office From barturo@e... Mon Jan 08 12:00:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 8 Jan 2001 20:00:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 40834 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2001 19:57:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2001 19:57:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 19:57:31 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA12993 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:53:37 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03727B@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:53:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" OK, it sounds good to me. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:32 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal must include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Mon Jan 08 14:52:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 8 Jan 2001 22:52:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 16678 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2001 22:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2001 22:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 22:50:03 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28924 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:50:03 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:51:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03727B@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Me too! > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 2:54 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM > > > OK, it sounds good to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:32 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM > > > Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player > role, shall be > referred to as an "Office." > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > The proposal must include: > Responsibilities of the office > The method of selection of officers > Term of office, and method of succession > The method of removal from office > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Jan 09 05:47:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Jan 2001 13:47:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 46241 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2001 13:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2001 13:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Jan 2001 14:49:00 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-04.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.64]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f09Dlra87529 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c07a42$af985480$40a811d0@computer> To: References: <001101c07874$8cb53840$126d1d40@v...> <000701c078c3$0f605060$49a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:47:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I vote for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:31 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 307 FINAL FORM > Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be > referred to as an "Office." > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > The proposal must include: > Responsibilities of the office > The method of selection of officers > Term of office, and method of succession > The method of removal from office > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Jan 09 05:53:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Jan 2001 13:53:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 63054 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2001 13:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2001 13:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Jan 2001 13:53:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2001 13:53:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 13:52:58 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 307 FINAL FORM Message-ID: <93f53q+4asb@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 524 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 199.95.76.231 From: "Fritz Hemker" I also vote for the passage of this proposal. --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be > referred to as an "Office." > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > The proposal must include: > Responsibilities of the office > The method of selection of officers > Term of office, and method of succession > The method of removal from offi From eventi@n... Tue Jan 09 07:14:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 9 Jan 2001 15:14:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 27992 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2001 15:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2001 15:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Jan 2001 15:06:20 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19888 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:06:19 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: State of the Union Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:07:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <93f53q+4asb@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, it's Bob's turn to propose, I've got 44 points, and Pat's got 33. BTW: Rules: http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/Rules Scores: http://www.egroups.com/database/scatterbrains?method=reportRows&tbl=2&sortBy =2 From barturo@e... Thu Jan 11 06:32:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 14:32:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 87748 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 14:31:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 14:31:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 14:31:14 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24290 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:31:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:27:14 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037285@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:27:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Ok here we go... Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last person has cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. End Proposal 308 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From f_hemker@h... Thu Jan 11 08:47:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 16:47:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 72820 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 16:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 16:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 17:37:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2001 16:36:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:36:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 308 Message-ID: <93knep+769o@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037285@BATMAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1682 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.114.15 From: "Fritz Hemker" How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player has cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five day grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of the last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other players, from the roster of players." I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Ok here we go... > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a proposal. If a > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last person has > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" > penalty enforced. > > End Proposal 308 > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at From f_hemker@h... Thu Jan 11 09:04:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 17:04:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28134 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 16:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 16:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 16:52:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.43] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2001 16:52:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:52:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 308 Message-ID: <93kocp+sqn5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <93knep+769o@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1929 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.114.15 From: "Fritz Hemker" Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative point totals possible? --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" wrote: > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player has > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five day > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of the > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > players, from the roster of players." > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a proposal. > If a > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > person has > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" > > penalty enforced. > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not From f_hemker@h... Thu Jan 11 09:16:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 87113 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 17:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 17:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 17:05:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.23] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2001 17:05:03 -0000 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:04:57 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 308 Message-ID: <93kp3p+kd1v@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037285@BATMAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 326 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.114.15 From: "Fritz Hemker" Doesn't this rule in the form initially presented conflict with the provisions of Rule 113? Or is losing points not a penalty worse than losing? What if I decide that losing points, in my case alone, is a penalty worse than losing. Am I then exempt? Sorry about the multiple mails, it has been a slow day at work. -Fr From eventi@n... Thu Jan 11 09:52:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 17:52:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 48743 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 17:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 17:40:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 17:40:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA15947 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:40:32 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:41:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <93kp3p+kd1v@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I initially read 113 to only cover the penalty for forfeit. Now that I read it again, it seems to say that a player may opt to forfeit in order to avoid any penalty, which he deems to be worse than losing. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:05 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > Doesn't this rule in the form initially presented conflict with the > provisions of Rule 113? Or is losing points not a penalty worse than > losing? What if I decide that losing points, in my case alone, is a > penalty worse than losing. Am I then exempt? > > Sorry about the multiple mails, it has been a slow day at work. > > -Fr > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Jan 11 10:13:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 18:13:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 15726 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 17:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 17:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 17:59:41 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18364 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:59:40 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:00:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <93kocp+sqn5@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" As long as it's not forbidden in the rules, it's possible. > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > point totals possible? > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > wrote: > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > has > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > day > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > the > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > wrote: > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > proposal. > > If a > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > person has > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > a > > day" > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Jan 11 11:00:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 19:00:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 22317 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 18:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 18:45:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 18:45:48 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA23220 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:45:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:41:43 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728A@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:41:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. Begin Revised Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. End Revised Proposal 308 -----Original Message----- From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative point totals possible? --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" wrote: > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player has > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five day > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of the > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > players, from the roster of players." > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a proposal. > If a > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > person has > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" > > penalty enforced. > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 11 11:08:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 19:08:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 62780 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 18:54:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 18:54:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 18:54:19 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0BIsHa57255 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:54:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c07bff$d21bfb60$45a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:53:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" 113 is the Strauss rule (joke for Fritz). Any regime is not oppressive that allows its members to emigrate. You cannot be forced to stay in the game and suffer any penalty that you think sucks. So, to answer Fritz's question, yes, if you do decide that losing points is worse than quitting, you can evade the penalty. Guess how you do this? You quit. :) So, I don't think this law violates 113. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > I initially read 113 to only cover the penalty for forfeit. Now that I read > it again, it seems to say that a player may opt to forfeit in order to avoid > any penalty, which he deems to be worse than losing. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:05 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > Doesn't this rule in the form initially presented conflict with the > > provisions of Rule 113? Or is losing points not a penalty worse than > > losing? What if I decide that losing points, in my case alone, is a > > penalty worse than losing. Am I then exempt? > > > > Sorry about the multiple mails, it has been a slow day at work. > > > > -Fr > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 11 11:10:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 19:10:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 70287 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 18:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 18:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 18:56:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0BIuXa57611 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:56:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c07c00$2322c7a0$45a811d0@computer> To: References: <93knep+769o@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:55:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" You might be too specific here. I think that "work-days" generally means what you said - excluding weekends and holidays. As for the "federally recognized" bit, we're the feds here, and we get to say what holidays go. Bob, you might want to include a list (or at least point out that the holidays have to be specified in another law). I see no reason for a 20 point limit. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fritz Hemker To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:36 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player has > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five day > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of the > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > players, from the roster of players." > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a proposal. > If a > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > person has > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" > > penalty enforced. > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 11 11:38:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 19:38:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 32038 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 19:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 19:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 20:26:27 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0BJPJa60334 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:25:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004201c07c04$28638ca0$45a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728A@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:24:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" "last player has cast there vote" should be "last player has cast their vote". ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays, > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails to > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > point totals possible? > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > wrote: > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > has > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > day > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > the > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > wrote: > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > proposal. > > If a > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > person has > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > a > > day" > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 11 11:38:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 19:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 84486 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 19:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 19:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 19:26:04 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.69]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0BJQ2a60410 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:26:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004601c07c04$41a1a580$45a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728A@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:25:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I don't like it. I'm not voting for anything capped. We need negative points and we need draconian laws.[slam fist on table] ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays, > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails to > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > point totals possible? > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > wrote: > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > has > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > day > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > the > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > wrote: > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > proposal. > > If a > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > person has > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > a > > day" > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Jan 11 12:11:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 20:11:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 85057 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 19:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 19:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 19:59:30 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA01698 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:59:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:55:22 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728C@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:55:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" No need to get hostile Begin Revised Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Columbus Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Revised Proposal 308 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:25 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 I don't like it. I'm not voting for anything capped. We need negative points and we need draconian laws.[slam fist on table] ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays, > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails to > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > point totals possible? > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > wrote: > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > has > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > day > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > the > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > wrote: > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > proposal. > > If a > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > person has > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > a > > day" > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Thu Jan 11 12:38:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 20:38:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 91186 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 20:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 20:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 20:25:01 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04640 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:24:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:26:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728C@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Fuck Christopher Columbus!!!!! Otherwise it looks good > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:55 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > No need to get hostile > > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: > > New Years Day > Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Columbus Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:25 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > I don't like it. I'm not voting for anything capped. > > We need negative points and we need draconian laws.[slam fist on table] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > holidays, > > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business > days > > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be > deducted > > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails > to > > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > > point totals possible? > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > > wrote: > > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > > has > > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > > day > > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > > the > > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > > wrote: > > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > > proposal. > > > If a > > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > > person has > > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > > a > > > day" > > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or > > > copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Jan 11 14:47:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 11 Jan 2001 22:47:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 78092 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2001 22:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2001 22:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jan 2001 23:40:28 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA18536 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:39:21 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:40:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <004201c07c04$28638ca0$45a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" spelling geek! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:25 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > "last player has cast there vote" should be "last player has cast their > vote". > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > holidays, > > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business > days > > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be > deducted > > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails > to > > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > > point totals possible? > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > > wrote: > > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > > has > > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > > day > > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > > the > > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > > wrote: > > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > > proposal. > > > If a > > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > > person has > > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > > a > > > day" > > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or > > > copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Jan 11 16:34:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Jan 2001 00:34:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 33860 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2001 00:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2001 00:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Jan 2001 00:26:25 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp03-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.62]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0C0QNa04483 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:26:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c07c2e$36da7440$3ea811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:25:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" "spelling geek" below should read "grammar geek" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > spelling geek! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 2:25 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > "last player has cast there vote" should be "last player has cast their > > vote". > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:41 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > > You bring up some good points. Business days do not include weekends. > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > > holidays, > > > to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business > > days > > > after the last player has cast there vote on the previous proposal there > > > will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be > > deducted > > > from the players total points and will not go below 0. If a player fails > > to > > > submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in > > > violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. > > > > > > End Revised Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:53 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > Oh, here's a question that might need to be answered: Are negative > > > point totals possible? > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Fritz Hemker" > > > wrote: > > > > How about: "If a proposal is not submitted within 5 days, excluding > > > > weekends and federally recognized holidays, after the last player > > > has > > > > cast their vote for the previous proposal, a penalty will be applied > > > > to the offending player. The penalty shall consist of one point > > > > being deducted from the offending player's total score for each day > > > > that the player fails to submit a proposal after the initial five > > > day > > > > grace period. Penalties shall not exceed 20 points. If a player > > > > fails to submit a proposal within 30 days after the acceptance of > > > the > > > > last proposal that player shall be deemed in violation of the spirit > > > > of the game and removed, with the unanimous consent of the other > > > > players, from the roster of players." > > > > > > > > I'm of the opinion that everything in the proposals ought to be > > > > spelled out as clearly as possible, in stultifying, stupid detail. > > > > Implications should not be left to the imagination, since we don't > > > > have a trained staff of lawyers or a judicial process (as of yet). > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Arturo, Bob" > > > wrote: > > > > > Ok here we go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > > Time Limit: > > > > > There will be a time limit of 5 business days to submit a > > > proposal. > > > > If a > > > > > proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last > > > > person has > > > > > cast there vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point > > > a > > > > day" > > > > > penalty enforced. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or > > > > copying > > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please not > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Jan 11 20:58:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Jan 2001 04:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 43496 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2001 04:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2001 04:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Jan 2001 04:58:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@n... Received: from [10.1.2.36] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2001 04:58:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:58:36 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 308 Message-ID: <93m2ts+o013@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <001701c07c2e$36da7440$3ea811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 143 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: eventi@n... Uuuugh! --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > "spelling geek" below should read "grammar geek" > From eventi@n... Fri Jan 12 09:00:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Jan 2001 17:00:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 28746 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2001 16:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jan 2001 16:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jan 2001 17:55:34 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA23111 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:54:28 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:55:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728C@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I was just kidding about the Columbus thing... I'd pass it as written. --e > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: > > New Years Day > Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Columbus Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Revised Proposal 308 From barturo@e... Fri Jan 12 09:01:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Jan 2001 17:01:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 39415 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2001 16:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2001 16:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jan 2001 17:56:21 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA23200 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:55:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:51:14 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728D@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: Proposal 308 Final Form Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:51:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From barturo@e... Fri Jan 12 09:09:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 12 Jan 2001 17:09:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 60735 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2001 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jan 2001 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jan 2001 17:03:34 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA24114 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:59:31 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03728E@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:59:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Well I have to work that day so the game can go on. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:56 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 308 I was just kidding about the Columbus thing... I'd pass it as written. --e > Begin Revised Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: > > New Years Day > Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Columbus Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Revised Proposal 308 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From sga5892@n... Sat Jan 13 10:59:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 18:59:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 59361 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 18:59:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 18:59:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 18:59:26 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0DK1GF12350 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:01:16 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G740065T7FVD6@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:59:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:59:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:59:01 -0500 Subject: Introduction To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07D68.FC2492E0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" Good day all. Bobby Arturo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. From eventi@w... Sat Jan 13 11:09:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 19:09:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 20608 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 19:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 19:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 20:10:26 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0DK4um20614 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:04:56 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id OAA27558; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:09:20 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] In-Reply-To: a5892 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1131@w...> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:09:20 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Now what? Who goes after Bob? From sga5892@n... Sat Jan 13 11:18:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 19:18:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 10901 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 19:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 19:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 19:18:06 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0DKJuF12717 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:19:56 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G74006BH8AZD6@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:17:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:17:36 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07D6B.945D77A0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it does seem to be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of which i plan on contributing to. the ordering of ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on the floor. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] Now what? Who goes after Bob? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Sat Jan 13 13:03:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 21:03:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 84247 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 21:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 21:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 21:03:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0DL3ba41518 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c07da4$378efc40$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C07D6B.945D77A0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is voted up or down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he come after Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the turn would have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. Here's the ascii: BA, SA, PB, FH, EV ^ We are here. Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it does seem to > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of which i plan > on contributing to. the ordering of > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on the > floor. > > steve0 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Sat Jan 13 13:03:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 21:03:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 89889 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 21:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 21:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 22:05:00 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0DL3ra41526 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c07da4$410db5e0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C07D68.FC2492E0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Introduction Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:03:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Introduction > Good day all. > > Bobby Arturo has introduced me to Scatterbrains. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sat Jan 13 13:33:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 21:33:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 97209 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 21:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 21:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 22:34:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@n... Received: from [10.1.2.117] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2001 21:33:12 -0000 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:33:10 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <93qhim+a1ss@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000f01c07da4$378efc40$c2a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1888 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: eventi@n... You are both assuming that "Arturo, Steven" comes after "Arturo, Bobby." Rule 201 doesn't state that... But since it's either Pat or Steven, I don't have any objection. Does he get a vote? I say no: We wouldn't want Bob calling his little brother in if the vote were tied, and just because it'll pass, I think we should apply the same standard. --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is voted up or > down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he come after > Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the turn would > have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. > > Here's the ascii: > > BA, SA, PB, FH, EV > ^ We are here. > > Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it does seem to > > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of which i plan > > on contributing to. the ordering of > > > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on the > > floor. > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > From bernardo@c... Sat Jan 13 14:01:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 13 Jan 2001 22:01:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 71659 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2001 22:01:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2001 22:01:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Jan 2001 22:01:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0DM1ha45290 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:01:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003701c07dac$557a4fe0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <93qhim+a1ss@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:01:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" There are no grounds to deny Steven the vote. First of all - who's to do it? There is no office created to police the group. Secondly, there are no rules that deny Steven the vote. Steven became a player the instant that he joined, and instantly gained all the rights and duties of any other player. As a matter of fact, if he didn't vote, he'd be in violation of 305. There is the possibility of abuse, but it's still legal. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > You are both assuming that "Arturo, Steven" comes after "Arturo, > Bobby." Rule 201 doesn't state that... But since it's either Pat or > Steven, I don't have any objection. > > Does he get a vote? I say no: We wouldn't want Bob calling his > little brother in if the vote were tied, and just because it'll pass, > I think we should apply the same standard. > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is > voted up or > > down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he > come after > > Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the > turn would > > have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. > > > > Here's the ascii: > > > > BA, SA, PB, FH, EV > > ^ We are here. > > > > Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it > does seem to > > > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of > which i plan > > > on contributing to. the ordering of > > > > > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > > > > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on > the > > > floor. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sat Jan 13 18:59:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 14 Jan 2001 02:59:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 67573 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2001 02:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2001 02:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Jan 2001 04:01:02 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA11246 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:59:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501c07dd5$fcd1fc60$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <93qhim+a1ss@eGroups.com> <003701c07dac$557a4fe0$c2a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:59:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, have it your way... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > There are no grounds to deny Steven the vote. First of all - who's to do > it? There is no office created to police the group. Secondly, there are no > rules that deny Steven the vote. Steven became a player the instant that he > joined, and instantly gained all the rights and duties of any other player. > As a matter of fact, if he didn't vote, he'd be in violation of 305. > > There is the possibility of abuse, but it's still legal. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 4:33 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > > > > You are both assuming that "Arturo, Steven" comes after "Arturo, > > Bobby." Rule 201 doesn't state that... But since it's either Pat or > > Steven, I don't have any objection. > > > > Does he get a vote? I say no: We wouldn't want Bob calling his > > little brother in if the vote were tied, and just because it'll pass, > > I think we should apply the same standard. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is > > voted up or > > > down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he > > come after > > > Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the > > turn would > > > have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. > > > > > > Here's the ascii: > > > > > > BA, SA, PB, FH, EV > > > ^ We are here. > > > > > > Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > > > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it > > does seem to > > > > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of > > which i plan > > > > on contributing to. the ordering of > > > > > > > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > > > > > > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on > > the > > > > floor. > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Sun Jan 14 16:44:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Jan 2001 00:44:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1905 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2001 00:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jan 2001 00:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Jan 2001 00:44:02 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0F1bU118718 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:37:30 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G76000JVI27DP@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:44:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:42:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:42:17 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07E62.1A8B3780.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" from what i gather in the documentation since bobby's proposal, no one has voted on it, nor has most given hints of severe objection to this reasonable and thoughtful proposal (please do not think i am my brother's minion. i would have wrapped his christmas presents if i were:) ). anyway, since i am at school now, any smokeroom dealings would be physically impossible, as well as in violation of 210. hey, for the sake of argument of proposal 308, are there any true holidays anymore since the advent of e-mail? it seems to be that one knows it is a federal holiday or sunday when the snail-mail is not delivered. we will all be receiving e-mail on sunday and on mlk day. with various internet e-mail services, we can therefore receive e-mail for this wherever, whenever. btw, it might be deemed moral to not contribute to this on weekends or the us-deemed federal holidays, for those who do not have access to this group during those times may have info-overload on mondays. sorry so long fellas. my girlfriend just got a ride home from her father instead of me. i am quite disappointed and i am taking it out on you. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:59 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction OK, have it your way... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > There are no grounds to deny Steven the vote. First of all - who's to do > it? There is no office created to police the group. Secondly, there are no > rules that deny Steven the vote. Steven became a player the instant that he > joined, and instantly gained all the rights and duties of any other player. > As a matter of fact, if he didn't vote, he'd be in violation of 305. > > There is the possibility of abuse, but it's still legal. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 4:33 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > > > > You are both assuming that "Arturo, Steven" comes after "Arturo, > > Bobby." Rule 201 doesn't state that... But since it's either Pat or > > Steven, I don't have any objection. > > > > Does he get a vote? I say no: We wouldn't want Bob calling his > > little brother in if the vote were tied, and just because it'll pass, > > I think we should apply the same standard. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is > > voted up or > > > down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he > > come after > > > Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the > > turn would > > > have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. > > > > > > Here's the ascii: > > > > > > BA, SA, PB, FH, EV > > > ^ We are here. > > > > > > Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > > > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it > > does seem to > > > > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of > > which i plan > > > > on contributing to. the ordering of > > > > > > > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > > > > > > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on > > the > > > > floor. > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Jan 15 05:36:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Jan 2001 13:36:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 42798 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2001 13:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2001 13:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Jan 2001 13:36:46 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA16878 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:36:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c07ef8$1edd9080$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <01C07E62.1A8B3780.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:36:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > from what i gather in the documentation since bobby's proposal, no one has > voted on it, nor has most given hints of severe objection to this > reasonable and thoughtful proposal (please do not think i am my brother's > minion. i would have wrapped his christmas presents if i were:) ). > anyway, since i am at school now, any smokeroom dealings would be > physically impossible, as well as in violation of 210. 210 doesn't apply to email games. There are other reasons why no one's voting. > hey, for the sake of argument of proposal 308, are there any true holidays > anymore since the advent of e-mail? it seems to be that one knows it is a > federal holiday or sunday when the snail-mail is not delivered. we will > all be receiving e-mail on sunday and on mlk day. with various internet > e-mail services, we can therefore receive e-mail for this wherever, > whenever. I guess the point is that many people don't have email except for at work. > btw, it might be deemed moral to not contribute to this on weekends or the > us-deemed federal holidays, for those who do not have access to this group > during those times may have info-overload on mondays. > > sorry so long fellas. my girlfriend just got a ride home from her father > instead of me. i am quite disappointed and i am taking it out on you. Life sucks, eh? Go make Iced Tea. > steve0 From scatterbrains@egroups.com Mon Jan 15 05:40:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 52672 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2001 13:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2001 13:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Jan 2001 13:40:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.113] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2001 13:40:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 99995 invoked by uid 65534); 15 Jan 2001 13:40:01 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 2001 13:40:01 -0000 Message-ID: <979566001.99986@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: This is a test o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 15 08:44:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 15 Jan 2001 16:44:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 45098 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2001 16:36:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2001 16:36:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Jan 2001 16:36:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0FGaoa76898 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:36:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001901c07f11$48d89920$bca811d0@computer> To: References: <01C07E62.1A8B3780.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:36:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Just because you don't get penalized for not contributing on the weekends, doesn't mean that you're prohibited from doing so... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 7:42 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > hey, for the sake of argument of proposal 308, are there any true holidays > anymore since the advent of e-mail? it seems to be that one knows it is a > federal holiday or sunday when the snail-mail is not delivered. we will > all be receiving e-mail on sunday and on mlk day. with various internet > e-mail services, we can therefore receive e-mail for this wherever, > whenever. > > btw, it might be deemed moral to not contribute to this on weekends or the > us-deemed federal holidays, for those who do not have access to this group > during those times may have info-overload on mondays. > > sorry so long fellas. my girlfriend just got a ride home from her father > instead of me. i am quite disappointed and i am taking it out on you. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 9:59 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > > OK, have it your way... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 5:01 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > > > > There are no grounds to deny Steven the vote. First of all - who's to do > > it? There is no office created to police the group. Secondly, there are > no > > rules that deny Steven the vote. Steven became a player the instant that > he > > joined, and instantly gained all the rights and duties of any other > player. > > As a matter of fact, if he didn't vote, he'd be in violation of 305. > > > > There is the possibility of abuse, but it's still legal. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 4:33 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Introduction > > > > > > > You are both assuming that "Arturo, Steven" comes after "Arturo, > > > Bobby." Rule 201 doesn't state that... But since it's either Pat or > > > Steven, I don't have any objection. > > > > > > Does he get a vote? I say no: We wouldn't want Bob calling his > > > little brother in if the vote were tied, and just because it'll pass, > > > I think we should apply the same standard. > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > > wrote: > > > > Absolutely right. It's still Bob's turn, until his proposal is > > > voted up or > > > > down. Since Steve came in during B's turn, he goes next. Had he > > > come after > > > > Bob's rule was voted on, precedent would have dictated that the > > > turn would > > > > have already passed to me, and he would have had to wait. > > > > > > > > Here's the ascii: > > > > > > > > BA, SA, PB, FH, EV > > > > ^ We are here. > > > > > > > > Somebody really oughta write a law about this one. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:17 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > > > > > > i do hate to impose my opinion at such an early stage, but it > > > does seem to > > > > > be my turn after bob's 'time limit' proposal is voted on, of > > > which i plan > > > > > on contributing to. the ordering of > > > > > > > > > > ba, pb, fh, ev, ba, sa, pb, ... > > > > > > > > > > seems odd especially if i were to contribute to the discussion on > > > the > > > > > floor. > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:09 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Introduction[3A60A97A] > > > > > > > > > > Now what? Who goes after Bob? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@egroups.com Mon Jan 15 19:18:03 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82512 invoked by uid 7800); 16 Jan 2001 03:03:42 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2001 03:03:42 -0000 Message-ID: <979614222.65652@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: File - Rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points. In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates. The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence. If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence. If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment. When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. -- Mutable -- Author: E Venti -- History: Proposal 301 ---- 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game. B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction. C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members. E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. -- Mutable -- Author: Pat Bernardo -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) ---- 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) ---- 306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order: 1) proposal of a rule 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. -- Mutable -- Author: Pat Bernardo -- History: Ammended 202 (1/4/01) ---- 307. Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal must include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office -- Mutable -- Author: Eugene Ventimiglia -- History: Proposal 307 ---- From eventi@n... Mon Jan 15 19:19:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 03:19:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 32082 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 03:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 03:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 04:09:20 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA20293 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:08:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c07f69$7ca42640$126d1d40@v...> To: "Nomic" Subject: The suspicious lack of votes. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:07:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it to pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes last gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets to vote against it and get 10 points. So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, unless someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 points. But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( the link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the votes would be valid. There are 3 technical problems with this 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That person should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and the poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public. 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. This includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. The server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can use it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until polling is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed with each vote)" I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but it does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. --e From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 15 19:41:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 03:41:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 91074 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 03:33:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 03:33:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 03:33:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0G3X4a29681 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:33:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ef01c07f6c$f4e4ba40$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <002101c07f69$7ca42640$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:32:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Huh? Has the final form of the bill been posted? As far as I know, Bob's posted several revisions, but hasn't specified any as the final one. That's why I haven't voted. Sorry if I missed it, but... To quote Bob: "I'm just waiting for the final version." ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Nomic Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it to > pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta > makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes last > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets to > vote against it and get 10 points. > > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, unless > someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 points. > But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage > (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( the > link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. > There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the votes > would be valid. > > There are 3 technical problems with this > 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That person > should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. > 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so > the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and the > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public. > 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. This > includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. > > Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. The > server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can use > it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until polling > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed with > each vote)" > > I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too > difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but it > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. > > --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 15 19:47:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 03:47:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 14963 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 03:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 03:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 03:39:46 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0G3dNa30071 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:39:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00fb01c07f6d$d67db7e0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <002101c07f69$7ca42640$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:38:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" BTW - I like the idea of polls. I was trying to figure out a way for blind voting. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Nomic Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it to > pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta > makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes last > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets to > vote against it and get 10 points. > > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, unless > someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 points. > But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage > (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( the > link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. > There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the votes > would be valid. > > There are 3 technical problems with this > 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That person > should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. > 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so > the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and the > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public. > 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. This > includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. > > Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. The > server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can use > it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until polling > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed with > each vote)" > > I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too > difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but it > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. > > --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Jan 15 19:59:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 03:58:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 89529 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 03:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 03:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 04:53:37 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA23273 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:52:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006801c07f6f$ac40d000$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <002101c07f69$7ca42640$126d1d40@v...> <00ef01c07f6c$f4e4ba40$c3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:51:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0063_01C07F45.B13E6060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C07F45.B13E6060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friday, noon... It was subtle, only in the subject. Sorry to be such a con= spiracy theorist. I was almost going to hold that back in case I was wrong= , but since everyone but Fritz has posted something since then, I assumed t= hat, well nevermind. Ok, now in hindsight, if _you_ missed it, Steven doesn't really know how to= vote yet, It slips Bob's mind to vote for his own proposal, and my mind's = all mucky with conspiracies, it all makes perfect sense... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > Huh? Has the final form of the bill been posted? As far as I know, Bob'= s > posted several revisions, but hasn't specified any as the final one. Tha= t's > why I haven't voted. >=20 > Sorry if I missed it, but... >=20 > To quote Bob: "I'm just waiting for the final version." >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: Nomic > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. >=20 >=20 > > No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it = to > > pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta > > makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes > last > > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets = to > > vote against it and get 10 points. > > > > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, > unless > > someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 > points. > > But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage > > (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( th= e > > link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. > > There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the > votes > > would be valid. > > > > There are 3 technical problems with this > > 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That pers= on > > should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. > > 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, = so > > the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and > the > > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public= . > > 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. > This > > includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. > > > > Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. = The > > server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can = use > > it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until > polling > > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed > with > > each vote)" > > > > I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too > > difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but i= t > > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com >=20 >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C07F45.B13E6060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Friday, noon..= . It=20 was subtle, only in the subject.  Sorry to be such a conspiracy=20 theorist.  I was almost going to hold that back in case I was wrong, b= ut=20 since everyone but Fritz has posted something since then, I assumed that, w= ell=20 nevermind.
 
Ok, now in hindsight, if _you_ missed it, Steven doesn'= t=20 really know how to vote yet, It slips Bob's mind to vote for his own propos= al,=20 and my mind's all mucky with conspiracies, it all makes perfect=20 sense...
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" <bernardo@c...>
To: <scatterbrains@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of=20 votes.

> Huh?  Has the= final=20 form of the bill been posted?  As far as I know, Bob's
> posted= =20 several revisions, but hasn't specified any as the final one. =20 That's
> why I haven't voted.
>
> Sorry if I missed it,= =20 but...
>
> To quote Bob: "I'm just waiting for the final=20 version."
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Fr= om:=20 Eugene Ventimiglia <
eventi@n...>
> To: Nomic=20 <
scatterbrains@egroups.com>
> Se= nt:=20 Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM
> Subject: [scatterbrains] The=20 suspicious lack of votes.
>
>
> > No one's voting, a= nd=20 it's probably due to Rule 206.  Everyone wants it to
> > pass= , but=20 if they vote against it, they get 10 points.  This rule sorta
> = >=20 makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes
&= gt;=20 last
> > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will p= ass,=20 but gets to
> > vote against it and get 10 points.
> >>=20 > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the=20 10,
> unless
> > someone's really greedy, and votes against = it so=20 no one gets the 10
> points.
> > But I had a better idea.&nb= sp;=20 If you go to the webpage
> > (
http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you=20 can create a poll ( the
> > link's on the left ) so that we cant s= ee=20 the results until it's done.
> > There's nothing in the rules=20 specifying the method for voting, so the
> votes
> > would b= e=20 valid.
> >
> > There are 3 technical problems with=20 this
> >     1) Whoever creates the poll can s= ee=20 the partial results.  That person
> > should likely be = =20 Bobby, since it's his proposal.
> >     2) The= re's=20 no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so
> > the= last=20 person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and
>=20 the
> > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to= =20 become public.
> >     3) Voters can change th= eir=20 votes any time before closing the poll.
> This
> > includes = the=20 creator of the poll, who can see the results.
> >
>=20 >     Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead a= nd=20 create the poll.  The
> > server mails the list that there's = been=20 a poll created, and people can use
> > it if they wish. =20 Just  be sure to select "Results are hidden until
> polling
&= gt;=20 > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is=20 displayed
> with
> > each vote)"
> >
> > I= was=20 going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too
> >= =20 difficult to manage at the time.  I'm in no way proposing it now, but= =20 it
> > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse.
>=20 >
> >     --e
> >
> >
= >=20 >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>= >=20
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>=20 >
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe fro= m=20 this group, send an email to:
>
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>=20
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C07F45.B13E6060-- From eventi@n... Mon Jan 15 20:04:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 04:04:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 36583 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 03:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 03:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 04:59:44 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA23654 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:58:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007801c07f70$8709b940$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <002101c07f69$7ca42640$126d1d40@v...> <00fb01c07f6d$d67db7e0$c3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:57:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" That was one of the three-pack we voted for, then sunk (I think 302) since we hadn't really started playing, yet. I'd propose it, but it's kinda awkward to do... Maybe it should be assigned to an office. You can create a sample poll and play with the settings a bit, aside from letting the creator see the results before they're all in they'd be perfect for blind voting. --e ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > BTW - I like the idea of polls. I was trying to figure out a way for blind > voting. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: Nomic > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > > > > No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it to > > pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta > > makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes > last > > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets to > > vote against it and get 10 points. > > > > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, > unless > > someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 > points. > > But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage > > (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( the > > link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. > > There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the > votes > > would be valid. > > > > There are 3 technical problems with this > > 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That person > > should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. > > 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so > > the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and > the > > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public. > > 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. > This > > includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. > > > > Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. The > > server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can use > > it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until > polling > > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed > with > > each vote)" > > > > I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too > > difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but it > > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 16 05:37:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 13:37:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 85260 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 13:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 13:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 14:38:09 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0GEcul10145 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:38:56 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7900KM8CILB5@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:37:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:32:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:32:50 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07F96.E9F5DCC0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" ill wait until noon to vote, since i vote first. bobby, this should give you a channce to set up a poll if you deem it necessary at this point. other than that, i know what my vote will be. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:51 PM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. Friday, noon... It was subtle, only in the subject. Sorry to be such a conspiracy theorist. I was almost going to hold that back in case I was wrong, but since everyone but Fritz has posted something since then, I assumed that, well nevermind. Ok, now in hindsight, if _you_ missed it, Steven doesn't really know how to vote yet, It slips Bob's mind to vote for his own proposal, and my mind's all mucky with conspiracies, it all makes perfect sense... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > Huh? Has the final form of the bill been posted? As far as I know, Bob's > posted several revisions, but hasn't specified any as the final one. That's > why I haven't voted. > > Sorry if I missed it, but... > > To quote Bob: "I'm just waiting for the final version." > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: Nomic > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:07 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] The suspicious lack of votes. > > > > No one's voting, and it's probably due to Rule 206. Everyone wants it to > > pass, but if they vote against it, they get 10 points. This rule sorta > > makes the game more interesting, but with an email game, whoever votes > last > > gets the benefit of knowledge that the proposition will pass, but gets to > > vote against it and get 10 points. > > > > So, I was considering voting against it NOW, so that I'll get the 10, > unless > > someone's really greedy, and votes against it so no one gets the 10 > points. > > But I had a better idea. If you go to the webpage > > (http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains) you can create a poll ( the > > link's on the left ) so that we cant see the results until it's done. > > There's nothing in the rules specifying the method for voting, so the > votes > > would be valid. > > > > There are 3 technical problems with this > > 1) Whoever creates the poll can see the partial results. That person > > should likely be Bobby, since it's his proposal. > > 2) There's no announcement to the list that the voting's finished, so > > the last person to vote should announce that the voting's finished, and > the > > poll creator can 'close' the poll, causing the results to become public. > > 3) Voters can change their votes any time before closing the poll. > This > > includes the creator of the poll, who can see the results. > > > > Bob- If you think it's a good idea, go ahead and create the poll. The > > server mails the list that there's been a poll created, and people can use > > it if they wish. Just be sure to select "Results are hidden until > polling > > is over" and "Voting is enumerated (identity of the voter is displayed > with > > each vote)" > > > > I was going to propose this early on in the game, but it seemed too > > difficult to manage at the time. I'm in no way proposing it now, but it > > does seem that we're at a bit of an impasse. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > << File: ATT00001.htm >> From scatterbrains@egroups.com Tue Jan 16 06:13:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 86641 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:12:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:12:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 14:12:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.95] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2001 14:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13049 invoked by uid 65534); 16 Jan 2001 14:11:51 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2001 14:11:50 -0000 Message-ID: <979654310.13046@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 o Yes, I love it !!! o No F'n way! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 06:30:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 14:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 80416 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 15:29:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA06277 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:28:45 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains WAIT!!!!! Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:29:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <979654310.13046@egroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I can see the results. No one's voted yet, so no harm done... I guess it's since I'm the list moderator. I'm going to create a "moderator-hat" account, and use it only when moderation is essential, but I just wanted to alert everyone that there's the possibility of foulplay. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > group: > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 > business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a > proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player > has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players > total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal > within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be > removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays > are as follows: > > New Years Day > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Proposal 308 > > > o Yes, I love it !!! > o No F'n way! > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 16 06:33:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 14:33:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 63027 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 14:32:01 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0GFPXO13476 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:25:33 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7900MALF26O6@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:32:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:31:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:31:21 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07F9F.16E1D380.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? steve0 -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 o Yes, I love it !!! o No F'n way! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 06:41:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 14:41:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 19375 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 14:39:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07303 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:39:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01C07F9F.16E1D380.sga5892@n...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" We've been quite informal about it. There oughta be a law (nudge) BTW- I sent you a "welcome aboard" message, but I must have fubbed it; so Welcome Aboard! > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:31 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > group: > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 > business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a > proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player > has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players > total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal > within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be > removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays > are as follows: > > New Years Day > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Proposal 308 > > > o Yes, I love it !!! > o No F'n way! > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Tue Jan 16 06:42:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 14:42:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 97323 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 15:42:29 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07489 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:37:13 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037299@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:37:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Did you see the results?? -----Original Message----- From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:31 AM To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? steve0 -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 o Yes, I love it !!! o No F'n way! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 06:50:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 14:50:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 13874 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 14:48:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 14:48:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 15:49:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08329 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:48:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains WAIT!!!!! Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:49:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, I'm a paeon now... I've added an 'eventi@c...' account which I'll use to moderate. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:30 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains WAIT!!!!! > > > I can see the results. No one's voted yet, so no harm done... I > guess it's > since I'm the list moderator. I'm going to create a "moderator-hat" > account, and use it only when moderation is essential, but I just > wanted to > alert everyone that there's the possibility of foulplay. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > > group: > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 > > business days, excluding federal > > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a > > proposal is not submitted within 5 > > business days after the last player > > has cast their vote on the previous > > proposal there will be a "1 point a > > day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > > will be deducted from the players > > total points and can go below 0. If a > > player fails to submit a proposal > > within 25 business days that player will > > be held in violation and can be > > removed if all other players are in > > agreement. > > > > *The list of Federal Holidays > > are as follows: > > > > New Years Day > > Presidents Day > > Memorial Day > > Independence Day > > Labor Day > > Veterans Day > > Thanksgiving Day > > Christmas Day > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > o Yes, I love it !!! > > o No F'n way! > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 16 08:11:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 16:11:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 92786 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 16:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 16:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 16:03:59 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0GGvUO20554 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:57:30 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7900797JBGUI@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:03:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:03:10 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C07FAB.EA7BF020.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i cannot see the results, and the poll is still open as of this e-mail -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:37 AM To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Did you see the results?? -----Original Message----- From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:31 AM To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? steve0 -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 o Yes, I love it !!! o No F'n way! To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From f_hemker@h... Tue Jan 16 08:22:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 16:22:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 46982 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 16:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 16:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 16:13:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.41] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2001 16:13:23 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:13:15 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: New poll for scatterbrains Message-ID: <941rur+9d4q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <01C07FAB.EA7BF020.sga5892@n...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2807 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 199.75.225.158 From: "Fritz Hemker" I just voted on the proposal. I hope it works. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Steven G. Arturo" wrote: > i cannot see the results, and the poll is still open as of this e-mail > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:37 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > Did you see the results?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:31 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > group: > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > Time Limit: > There will be a time limit of 5 > business days, excluding federal > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a > proposal is not submitted within 5 > business days after the last player > has cast their vote on the previous > proposal there will be a "1 point a > day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > will be deducted from the players > total points and can go below 0. If a > player fails to submit a proposal > within 25 business days that player will > be held in violation and can be > removed if all other players are in > agreement. > > *The list of Federal Holidays > are as follows: > > New Years Day > Presidents Day > Memorial Day > Independence Day > Labor Day > Veterans Day > Thanksgiving Day > Christmas Day > > End Proposal 308 > > > o Yes, I love it !!! > o No F'n way! > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups. From scatterbrains@egroups.com Tue Jan 16 08:41:51 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12139 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 16:32:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 16:32:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 17:33:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.94] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2001 16:32:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 69963 invoked by uid 65534); 16 Jan 2001 16:32:03 -0000 Date: 16 Jan 2001 16:32:03 -0000 Message-ID: <979662723.69959@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Begin Proposal 308 Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day End Proposal 308 CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, I love it !!!, 5 votes, 100.00% - No F'n way!, 0 votes, 0.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, I love it !!! - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - barturo@e... - sga5892@n... - f_hemker@h... - No F'n way! For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 08:50:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 16:50:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 41266 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 16:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 16:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 17:39:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20047 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:38:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:39:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <941rur+9d4q@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" And that's everyone... Your mailbox runneth over this morning Fritz? > -----Original Message----- > From: Fritz Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:13 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > I just voted on the proposal. I hope it works. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Steven G. Arturo" > wrote: > > i cannot see the results, and the poll is still open as of this > e-mail > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:37 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > > Did you see the results?? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:31 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > i voted. is there a 'last person' if this is how we vote? > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:12 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > > group: > > > > > > Begin Proposal 308 > > > > Time Limit: > > There will be a time limit of 5 > > business days, excluding federal > > holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a > > proposal is not submitted within 5 > > business days after the last player > > has cast their vote on the previous > > proposal there will be a "1 point a > > day" penalty enforced. Penalty points > > will be deducted from the players > > total points and can go below 0. If a > > player fails to submit a proposal > > within 25 business days that player will > > be held in violation and can be > > removed if all other players are in > > agreement. > > > > *The list of Federal Holidays > > are as follows: > > > > New Years Day > > Presidents Day > > Memorial Day > > Independence Day > > Labor Day > > Veterans Day > > Thanksgiving Day > > Christmas Day > > > > End Proposal 308 > > > > > > o Yes, I love it !!! > > o No F'n way! > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 10:14:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 16 Jan 2001 18:14:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 54523 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2001 18:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2001 18:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jan 2001 18:02:46 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA28813 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:02:44 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: The dust settles... Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:04:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Bob: 20pts, Pat: 33pts, Me: 44pts. I've updated the Rules file and Scores database And it's your turn Steven. --e From bernardo@c... Tue Jan 16 17:38:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Jan 2001 01:38:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 75029 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 01:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2001 01:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jan 2001 02:23:01 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0H1Loa63021 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:21:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c08023$c98ac760$bca811d0@computer> To: References: <979614222.65652@egroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:21:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I just noticed something. Check out Rule 204. My 306 replaced this (although it was an implied change). Shouldn't it go away now? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:03 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > > 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > > 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it. > > -- Immutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points. > In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. > > In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates. > > The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence. > > If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence. > > If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment. > > When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. > > The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. > > Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. > > New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. > > This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Initial > > ---- > > > 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: E Venti > -- History: Proposal 301 > > ---- > > > 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game. > > B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction. > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members. > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) > > ---- > > > 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: P Suber > -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) > > ---- > > > 306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order: > 1) proposal of a rule > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule > 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer > 4) scoring. > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. > > -- Mutable > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > -- History: Ammended 202 (1/4/01) > > ---- > > > 307. Offices: > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > The proposal must include: > Responsibilities of the office > The method of selection of officers > Term of office, and method of succession > The method of removal from office > > -- Mutable > -- Author: Eugene Ventimiglia > -- History: Proposal 307 > > ---- > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Jan 16 21:31:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Jan 2001 05:31:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 76360 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 05:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2001 05:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Jan 2001 05:31:10 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA29396 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:31:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c08046$9eebe660$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <979614222.65652@egroups.com> <002101c08023$c98ac760$bca811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:30:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think you meant 202... 204 doesn't get replaced by 306. If you're referring to "Scoring shall be..." It can't take presidence over 204, or any other rule governing post-voting scores unless you stated it explicitly (by 211) I'm afraid that if you intended that, it didn't work, and I would have fought it anyway... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > I just noticed something. Check out Rule 204. My 306 replaced this > (although it was an implied change). Shouldn't it go away now? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:03 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > > > > > > 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the > form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in > effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 > (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are > mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from > immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless > of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless > of their numbers. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or > amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an > amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule > into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at > least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they > are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as > they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be > transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They > will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted > on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they > were voted on. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the > completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly > states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The > numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper > way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal > is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of > the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives > the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is > amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the > number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be > adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. > Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a > proposal to take effect. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable > rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the > purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not > "conflict" with that immutable rule. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or > destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes > compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is > otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest > amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time > must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in > which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to > do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from > achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the > means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner > when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be > amended or repealed. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than > continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in > the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of > rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes > are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or > repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move > is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application > of a rule. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and > unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is > permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits > it. > > > > -- Immutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn > apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be > omitted. All players begin with zero points. > > In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order > by surname. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among > the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second > complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple > majority. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the > players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the > completion of the vote that adopted it. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it > loses 10 points. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. > > > > In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 > (positive) points. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future > rule-changes unless they are team-mates. > > > > The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or > computer. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or > more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the > lowest ordinal number takes precedence. > > > > If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it > defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another > rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical > method for determining precedence. > > > > If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer > to one another, then the numerical method again governs. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the > interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one > moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the > purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This > process is called invoking Judgment. > > > > When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her > turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. > > > > The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the > other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is > overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes > the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be > Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. > > > > Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from > the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her > own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. > > > > New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, > however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree > and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. > All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in > effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point > at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the > game before applying other standards. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if > the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the > Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and > illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. > > > > This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Initial > > > > ---- > > > > > > 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject > consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: E Venti > > -- History: Proposal 301 > > > > ---- > > > > > > 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > player into the game. > > > > B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official > Introduction. > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by > the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header > "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player > name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or > more members. > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred > to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > > -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) > > > > ---- > > > > > > 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must > participate in every vote on rule-changes. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: P Suber > > -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) > > > > ---- > > > > > > 306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order: > > 1) proposal of a rule > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not > include the substitution of a new rule > > 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is > declared by the proposer > > 4) scoring. > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > > -- History: Ammended 202 (1/4/01) > > > > ---- > > > > > > 307. Offices: > > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall > be referred to as an "Office." > > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > > > The proposal must include: > > Responsibilities of the office > > The method of selection of officers > > Term of office, and method of succession > > The method of removal from office > > > > -- Mutable > > -- Author: Eugene Ventimiglia > > -- History: Proposal 307 > > > > ---- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 17 04:58:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-6_3_1_3); 17 Jan 2001 12:58:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 91466 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 12:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2001 12:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Jan 2001 12:58:00 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0HCvua14138 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:57:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01c08085$0776b640$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <979614222.65652@egroups.com> <002101c08023$c98ac760$bca811d0@computer> <001301c08046$9eebe660$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:57:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I totally misread it. Even after you posted your conspiracy theory. Somehow I read that 204 gave 10 points for passage of the rule. Duh. I guess that I better re-check the work I did last night... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > I think you meant 202... 204 doesn't get replaced by 306. If you're > referring to "Scoring shall be..." It can't take presidence over 204, or any > other rule governing post-voting scores unless you stated it explicitly (by > 211) I'm afraid that if you intended that, it didn't work, and I would have > fought it anyway... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > > > > I just noticed something. Check out Rule 204. My 306 replaced this > > (although it was an implied change). Shouldn't it go away now? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:03 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - Rules > > > > > > > > > > 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in > the > > form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in > > effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 > > (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's > are > > mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from > > immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless > > of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted > regardless > > of their numbers. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, > or > > amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an > > amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule > > into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at > > least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as > they > > are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as > > they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may > be > > transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They > > will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are > voted > > on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they > > were voted on. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the > > completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly > > states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. > The > > numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper > > way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal > > is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of > > the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it > receives > > the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is > > amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the > > number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may > be > > adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. > > Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a > > proposal to take effect. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the > immutable > > rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the > > purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not > > "conflict" with that immutable rule. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or > > destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more > rule-changes > > compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is > > otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest > > amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable > time > > must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in > > which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked > to > > do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered > from > > achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and > the > > means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner > > when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be > > amended or repealed. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than > > continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in > > the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of > > rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply > rule-changes > > are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or > > repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move > > is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or > self-application > > of a rule. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and > > unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is > > permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly > permits > > it. > > > > > > -- Immutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn > > apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be > > omitted. All players begin with zero points. > > > In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical > order > > by surname. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among > > the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second > > complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a > simple > > majority. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the > > players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the > > completion of the vote that adopted it. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it > > loses 10 points. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. > > > > > > In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve > 200 > > (positive) points. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future > > rule-changes unless they are team-mates. > > > > > > The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or > > computer. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two > or > > more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the > > lowest ordinal number takes precedence. > > > > > > If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that > it > > defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another > > rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical > > method for determining precedence. > > > > > > If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to > defer > > to one another, then the numerical method again governs. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the > > interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one > > moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the > > purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This > > process is called invoking Judgment. > > > > > > When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her > > turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. > > > > > > The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the > > other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment > is > > overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order > becomes > > the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be > > Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. > > > > > > Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising > from > > the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or > her > > own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. > > > > > > New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, > > however, settle only those questions on which the players currently > disagree > > and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. > > All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in > > effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the > point > > at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the > > game before applying other standards. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if > > the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the > > Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and > > illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. > > > > > > This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Initial > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject > > consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: E Venti > > > -- History: Proposal 301 > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new > > player into the game. > > > > > > B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official > > Introduction. > > > > > > C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, > by > > the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header > > "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player > > name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." > > > > > > D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) > or > > more members. > > > > > > E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be > referred > > to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > > > -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must > > participate in every vote on rule-changes. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: P Suber > > > -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order: > > > 1) proposal of a rule > > > 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the > > proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may > not > > include the substitution of a new rule > > > 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is > > declared by the proposer > > > 4) scoring. > > > > > > Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction > > produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All > > fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: Pat Bernardo > > > -- History: Ammended 202 (1/4/01) > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > 307. Offices: > > > Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall > > be referred to as an "Office." > > > Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. > > > > > > The proposal must include: > > > Responsibilities of the office > > > The method of selection of officers > > > Term of office, and method of succession > > > The method of removal from office > > > > > > -- Mutable > > > -- Author: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > -- History: Proposal 307 > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Thu Jan 18 18:46:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 19 Jan 2001 02:46:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 23436 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2001 02:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2001 02:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Jan 2001 02:36:17 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0J3Te603043 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:29:40 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7E00D3R1XA05@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:36:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:35:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:35:39 -0500 Subject: Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08196.9AC73D40.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" Begin Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are closed. A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after casting a vote. End Proposal 309 ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich on a burnt bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! steve0 From eventi@n... Fri Jan 19 06:30:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 19 Jan 2001 14:30:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 53016 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2001 14:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2001 14:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Jan 2001 14:29:31 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14879 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:29:31 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:30:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <01C08196.9AC73D40.sga5892@n...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Problems: 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in fact it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) as soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a challenge. 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change to it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always has a higher number. But there's hope: You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > closed. > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > casting a vote. > > End Proposal 309 > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > on a burnt > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > steve0 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Fri Jan 19 16:07:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 20 Jan 2001 00:07:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 38409 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2001 00:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Jan 2001 00:06:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Jan 2001 01:08:04 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0K12Jm26939 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:02:19 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA13171; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:06:58 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Bored!!! Message-Id: <15308871.1172@w...> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:06:58 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Last Friday there were like 10 emails, today one... I'm friggin bored. --e From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 19 18:10:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 20 Jan 2001 02:10:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17534 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2001 02:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Jan 2001 02:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Jan 2001 03:11:24 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-20.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.205]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0K2AHa25241 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:10:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c08286$0cb08f20$cda811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1172@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bored!!! Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:09:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Play some net-hack. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 7:06 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Bored!!! > Last Friday there were like 10 emails, today one... I'm friggin bored. > --e > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 22 05:01:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 13:01:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 27330 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 13:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 13:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 14:03:00 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0MDtLX11768 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:55:21 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7K00C16EW0DE@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:01:29 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:01:28 -0500 Subject: Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08449.86927C80.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, chew on this for a day or two. Begin Revised Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete. This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote. End Proposal 309 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Problems: 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in fact it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) as soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a challenge. 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change to it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always has a higher number. But there's hope: You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > closed. > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > casting a vote. > > End Proposal 309 > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > on a burnt > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > steve0 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@w... Mon Jan 22 06:12:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:12:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 88230 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 14:10:33 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0MF5em08046 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 07:05:44 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id JAA27551; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:10:25 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law In-Reply-To: a5892 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1214@w...> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:10:25 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... It looks ok to me. Any other objections? ------ From: Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, chew on this for a day or two. Begin Revised Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete. This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote. End Proposal 309 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Problems: 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in fact it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) as soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a challenge. 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change to it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always has a higher number. But there's hope: You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > closed. > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > casting a vote. > > End Proposal 309 > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > on a burnt > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > steve0 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 06:30:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:30:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 72485 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:31:24 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MEUHa29433 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:30:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c0847f$c2483900$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1214@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:29:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > ------ > From: > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, > chew on this for a day or two. > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > voting on final proposals is complete. > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her > first vote. > > End Proposal 309 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > Problems: > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in fact > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) > as > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a challenge. > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change > to > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always has > a > higher number. > > But there's hope: > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > > closed. > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > casting a vote. > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > on a burnt > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > steve0 > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 22 06:37:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:37:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 89668 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 14:36:39 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0MFU4X17019 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:30:04 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7K00E3KJ9WOD@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:36:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:36:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08456.C2831BC0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final propoal is to be voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose of passing a proposal. for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote to pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to propose a new rule. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > ------ > From: > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, > chew on this for a day or two. > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > voting on final proposals is complete. > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her > first vote. > > End Proposal 309 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > Problems: > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in fact > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) > as > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a challenge. > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change > to > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always has > a > higher number. > > But there's hope: > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > > closed. > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > casting a vote. > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > on a burnt > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > steve0 > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 06:43:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:43:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 28041 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:42:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:43:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MEgUa30525 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:42:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c08481$7790cd80$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08456.C2831BC0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:41:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that we need new players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get another player added into the mix, which makes for a more interesting game. I *like* the incentive to add new players. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final propoal is to be > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose of passing a > proposal. > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote to > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to propose a > new rule. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > ------ > > From: > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > introduction > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her > > first vote. > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > Problems: > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > fact > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) > > as > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > challenge. > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change > > to > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > has > > a > > higher number. > > > > But there's hope: > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > an > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > > > closed. > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > on a burnt > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Mon Jan 22 06:53:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:53:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 69562 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:52:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:53:48 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28485 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:48:18 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372AA@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:48:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while there is a proposal on the table. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that we need new players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get another player added into the mix, which makes for a more interesting game. I *like* the incentive to add new players. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final propoal is to be > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose of passing a > proposal. > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote to > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to propose a > new rule. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > ------ > > From: > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > introduction > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her > > first vote. > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > Problems: > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > fact > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) > > as > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > challenge. > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change > > to > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > has > > a > > higher number. > > > > But there's hope: > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > an > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > > > closed. > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > on a burnt > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 22 06:53:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 14:53:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 12241 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 14:51:42 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0MFj8X18138 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:45:08 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7K00EFAJYZOD@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:52:11 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:51:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:51:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08458.DD0D51C0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" pat, would you suggest i include a number of players after which this rule kicks in, as in 304, but opposite? steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that we need new players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get another player added into the mix, which makes for a more interesting game. I *like* the incentive to add new players. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final propoal is to be > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose of passing a > proposal. > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote to > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to propose a > new rule. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > ------ > > From: > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill try to have a > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. until then, > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > introduction > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her > > first vote. > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > Problems: > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > fact > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not officially begin > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any manner) > > as > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline would allow > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > challenge. > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any change > > to > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical heirarchy to > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > has > > a > > higher number. > > > > But there's hope: > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it includes new > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > an > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open polls are > > > closed. > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the person's first > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > on a burnt > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' instead of how i > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Jan 22 07:05:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:05:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 48840 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:05:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29691 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:03:56 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:05:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372AA@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of the intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, but I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't make a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no substance to it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while > there is a proposal on the table. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > we need new > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > interesting game. > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > propoal is to be > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > of passing > a > > proposal. > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote > to > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > propose a > > new rule. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > ------ > > > From: > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > try to have > a > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > until then, > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > an > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > introduction > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > until all > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or > her > > > first vote. > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > > fact > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > officially begin > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > manner) > > > as > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > would allow > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > challenge. > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > change > > > to > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > heirarchy to > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > > has > > > a > > > higher number. > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > includes new > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > upon sending > > an > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > polls are > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > person's first > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > on a burnt > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > instead of how > i > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 07:13:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:13:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 75484 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:10:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MFA2a32928 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:10:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c08485$4fefb440$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:09:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the proposal. As I said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of the > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, but > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't make > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > substance to it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > we need new > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > interesting game. > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > propoal is to be > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > of passing > > a > > > proposal. > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote > > to > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > propose a > > > new rule. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > ------ > > > > From: > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > try to have > > a > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > until then, > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > > an > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > introduction > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > until all > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or > > her > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > > > fact > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > officially begin > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > manner) > > > > as > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > would allow > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > change > > > > to > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > heirarchy to > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > > > has > > > > a > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > includes new > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > upon sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > polls are > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > person's first > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > instead of how > > i > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 22 07:22:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:22:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 31019 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:17:15 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0MGAfX20377 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:10:41 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7K00F8YL5KR3@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:16:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:16:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0845C.6EDFEB00.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" call this an insurance. the players coming in should contribute constructively and not just be temporaries used as votes. i could legitimately sign my little sister up so i can pass this proposal. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the proposal. As I said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of the > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, but > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't make > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > substance to it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > we need new > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > interesting game. > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > propoal is to be > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > of passing > > a > > > proposal. > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote > > to > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > propose a > > > new rule. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > ------ > > > > From: > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > try to have > > a > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > until then, > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > > an > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > introduction > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > until all > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or > > her > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > > > fact > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > officially begin > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > manner) > > > > as > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > would allow > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > change > > > > to > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > heirarchy to > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > > > has > > > > a > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > includes new > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > upon sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > polls are > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > person's first > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > instead of how > > i > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From barturo@e... Mon Jan 22 07:30:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:30:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 56919 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:25:33 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02065 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:21:02 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372AC@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:21:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being voted on is wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait until the whole round is over. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the proposal. As I said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of the > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, but > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't make > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > substance to it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > we need new > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > interesting game. > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > propoal is to be > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > of passing > > a > > > proposal. > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote > > to > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > propose a > > > new rule. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > ------ > > > > From: > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > try to have > > a > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > until then, > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > > an > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > introduction > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > until all > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or > > her > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > > > fact > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > officially begin > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > manner) > > > > as > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > would allow > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > change > > > > to > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > heirarchy to > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > > > has > > > > a > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > includes new > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > upon sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > polls are > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > person's first > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > instead of how > > i > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 22 07:43:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:42:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 93572 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:38:34 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0MGUsX22182 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:30:54 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7K00G1YM3AS7@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:37:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:37:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:37:02 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0845F.42380120.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i think this is good... may i open a poll? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being voted on is wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait until the whole round is over. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the proposal. As I said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of the > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, but > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't make > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > substance to it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. New > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in while > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > we need new > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > interesting game. > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > propoal is to be > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > of passing > > a > > > proposal. > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more vote > > to > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > propose a > > > new rule. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > ------ > > > > From: > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > try to have > > a > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > until then, > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending > > an > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > introduction > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > until all > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or > > her > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, in > > > fact > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > officially begin > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > manner) > > > > as > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > would allow > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > change > > > > to > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > heirarchy to > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal always > > > has > > > > a > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > includes new > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > upon sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > polls are > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > person's first > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order after > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > instead of how > > i > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 07:50:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:50:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 85417 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:45:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MFhma36303 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:43:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0848a$0a3b8500$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372AC@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:43:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Well, I suppose the argument is moot. You and Eug and Steven will all vote for it, so it'll pass. It remains to be seen if I'll vote for it, or if Fritz will. I really don't think that this law does anything *except* remove an incentive to introduce new members. I'm not willing to do that. I don't mind if a new player comes in to pass a law, because once that player is in the game, they will play to win. That will make them independent enough. Secondly, if what you're worried about is "the Laura situation" (Fritz- Laura is Steve and Bob's little sister), then what is needed is not a law restricting the right to vote, but one that beefs up the penalty for non-participation (perhaps by extending the penalty to the introducing player, etc.). ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being voted on is > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait > until the whole round is over. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the proposal. As I > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of > the > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, > but > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't > make > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > > substance to it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. > New > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in > while > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > > we need new > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us get > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > interesting game. > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > propoal is to be > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > > of passing > > > a > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more > vote > > > to > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > > propose a > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > ------ > > > > > From: > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law[3A6C329D] > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > > try to have > > > a > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > > until then, > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon > sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is > complete. > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > > introduction > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > > until all > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his > or > > > her > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting method, > in > > > > fact > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > officially begin > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > > manner) > > > > > as > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > > would allow > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > > change > > > > > to > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > > heirarchy to > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal > always > > > > has > > > > > a > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > > includes new > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > > upon sending > > > > an > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a > new > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > > polls are > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > > person's first > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order > after > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > instead of how > > > i > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Jan 22 07:56:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 15:56:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 82455 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 15:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 15:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 15:49:40 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04708 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:49:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01C0845F.42380120.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You can open it at any time you want. We've been re-posting a "Final Form" message, which is nice, but not required. As Pat pointed out, he's voicing opposition, but there don't seem to be any mechanical problems with it, so it would have force if passed. Just don't expect a unanimous vote. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:37 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > i think this is good... may i open a poll? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being voted on is > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait > until the whole round is over. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the > proposal. As I > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of > the > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, > but > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't > make > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > > substance to it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. > New > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in > while > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > > we need new > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the > rest of us get > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > interesting game. > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > propoal is to be > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > > of passing > > > a > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more > vote > > > to > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > > propose a > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > ------ > > > > > From: > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law[3A6C329D] > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > > try to have > > > a > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > > until then, > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon > sending > > > an > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is > complete. > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > > introduction > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > > until all > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his > or > > > her > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only > voting method, > in > > > > fact > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > officially begin > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > > manner) > > > > > as > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > > would allow > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > > change > > > > > to > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > > heirarchy to > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal > always > > > > has > > > > > a > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > > includes new > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > > upon sending > > > > an > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a > new > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > > polls are > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > > person's first > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order > after > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > instead of how > > > i > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 08:46:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 16:46:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 82004 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MGV2a40631 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:31:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c08490$a25f8560$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:30:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Let me try again. According to Rule 210, conspiracies and teams are *explicitly* allowed. As such, I think that the idea of excluding people for tag-teaming the vote is dubious. I just don't see why it is overwhelmingly understood as morally wrong. The fact is, this may, in some situations, be a very good incentive for recruiting new members and it may lead to the formation of teams or alliances. I'm not a fanatic about this point, but I just don't see that the benefits of this rule (which still haven't been identified) out-weigh the costs. The funniest thing about this is that it doesn't even address the worst possible abuse that is still open in the system. I'm not going to say what it is, as I'm still toying with exploiting that loophole, but now that I've mentioned it, I'm sure someone else will figure it out. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > You can open it at any time you want. We've been re-posting a "Final Form" > message, which is nice, but not required. As Pat pointed out, he's voicing > opposition, but there don't seem to be any mechanical problems with it, so > it would have force if passed. Just don't expect a unanimous vote. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:37 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > i think this is good... may i open a poll? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being voted on is > > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait > > until the whole round is over. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my side of the > > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the > > proposal. As I > > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. > > > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the opposite of > > the > > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on this issue, > > but > > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't > > make > > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > > > substance to it. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the round is over. > > New > > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in > > while > > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > > > we need new > > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, then it's a > > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the > > rest of us get > > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > > interesting game. > > > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > > propoal is to be > > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > > > of passing > > > > a > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he needed one more > > vote > > > > to > > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > > > propose a > > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > From: > > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > > law[3A6C329D] > > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > > > try to have > > > > a > > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > > > until then, > > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon > > sending > > > > an > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is > > complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > > > introduction > > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > > > until all > > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his > > or > > > > her > > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only > > voting method, > > in > > > > > fact > > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > > officially begin > > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can vote (in any > > > > manner) > > > > > > as > > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > > > would allow > > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order (201), any > > > > change > > > > > > to > > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > > > heirarchy to > > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal > > always > > > > > has > > > > > > a > > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > > > includes new > > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > > > upon sending > > > > > an > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction affidavit, a > > new > > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > > > polls are > > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be alphabetically > > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > > > person's first > > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order > > after > > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and bacon sandwich > > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > > instead of how > > > > i > > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > > or copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Jan 22 08:48:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 16:48:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 90347 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 16:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 16:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:34:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09121 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:34:17 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:35:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <002301c0848a$0a3b8500$c4a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It's the wrong kind of incentive. It's in effect saying everyone gets one free vote for introducing a member. Also, when does the vote end? We've been ending it once everyone's voted, but now we don't know who everyone is. Allowing voters to enter during the vote will lead to far more problems than it will solve. I'd continue, but I've got work to do. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:43 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > Well, I suppose the argument is moot. You and Eug and Steven > will all vote > for it, so it'll pass. It remains to be seen if I'll vote for it, or if > Fritz will. > > I really don't think that this law does anything *except* remove an > incentive to introduce new members. I'm not willing to do that. I don't > mind if a new player comes in to pass a law, because once that > player is in > the game, they will play to win. That will make them independent enough. > > Secondly, if what you're worried about is "the Laura situation" (Fritz- > Laura is Steve and Bob's little sister), then what is needed is not a law > restricting the right to vote, but one that beefs up the penalty for > non-participation (perhaps by extending the penalty to the introducing > player, etc.). > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being > voted on is > > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait > > until the whole round is over. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my > side of the > > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the > proposal. As > I > > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. > > > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the > opposite of > > the > > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on > this issue, > > but > > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't > > make > > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > > > substance to it. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the > round is over. > > New > > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in > > while > > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > > > we need new > > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, > then it's a > > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us > get > > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > > interesting game. > > > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > > propoal is to be > > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > > > of passing > > > > a > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he > needed one more > > vote > > > > to > > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > > > propose a > > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > From: > > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law[3A6C329D] > > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > > > try to have > > > > a > > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > > > until then, > > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon > > sending > > > > an > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is > > complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > > > introduction > > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > > > until all > > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon > casting his > > or > > > > her > > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting > method, > > in > > > > > fact > > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > > officially begin > > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can > vote (in any > > > > manner) > > > > > > as > > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > > > would allow > > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order > (201), any > > > > change > > > > > > to > > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > > > heirarchy to > > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal > > always > > > > > has > > > > > > a > > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > > > includes new > > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > > > upon sending > > > > > an > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction > affidavit, a > > new > > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > > > polls are > > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be > alphabetically > > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > > > person's first > > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order > > after > > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and > bacon sandwich > > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > > instead of how > > > > i > > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the > sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > > or copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@egroups.com Mon Jan 22 09:01:29 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22362 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 16:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 16:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 17:48:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.59] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2001 16:47:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 66406 invoked by uid 65534); 22 Jan 2001 16:47:20 -0000 Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:47:20 -0000 Message-ID: <980182040.66401@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /nomic.html Uploaded by : eventi@c... Description : EXPERIMENTAL Rules HTML Version You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/nomic%2Ehtml To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, eventi@c... From f_hemker@h... Mon Jan 22 09:08:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 17:08:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 84379 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 16:57:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Jan 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:57:38 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Message-ID: <94hoq2+75oc@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 13603 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 199.95.76.187 From: "Fritz Hemker" Fellow Players, I'm sorry that I haven't had anything to say so far. What with my applications and work I've been too busy to thoughtfully consider the proposal. I like the fact that this proposal normalizes, or explicitly explains how the entrance of players works. I thought that with a player introducing in the middle of a vote that there was room for misunderstanding due to non-explicit rules. From that point of view, this is a good proposal. However, like Pat says, it does tend to take away an incentive to add new players. Of course, with the "be fruitfull and multiply rule" still in place I believe that there is still plenty of incentive left. While this may cut off some of Pat's future nefarious plans <;-p, it does not seem to be all doom and gloom. We might see it as a good thing that all the rules aren't being done unanimously. Now we are really starting to play. I wonder who's going to be unlucky enough to pass a rule that doesn't pass at all... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > It's the wrong kind of incentive. It's in effect saying everyone gets one > free vote for introducing a member. Also, when does the vote end? We've > been ending it once everyone's voted, but now we don't know who everyone is. > Allowing voters to enter during the vote will lead to far more problems than > it will solve. > > I'd continue, but I've got work to do. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:43 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > Well, I suppose the argument is moot. You and Eug and Steven > > will all vote > > for it, so it'll pass. It remains to be seen if I'll vote for it, or if > > Fritz will. > > > > I really don't think that this law does anything *except* remove an > > incentive to introduce new members. I'm not willing to do that. I don't > > mind if a new player comes in to pass a law, because once that > > player is in > > the game, they will play to win. That will make them independent enough. > > > > Secondly, if what you're worried about is "the Laura situation" (Fritz- > > Laura is Steve and Bob's little sister), then what is needed is not a law > > restricting the right to vote, but one that beefs up the penalty for > > non-participation (perhaps by extending the penalty to the introducing > > player, etc.). > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being > > voted on is > > > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have to wait > > > until the whole round is over. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my > > side of the > > > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the > > proposal. As > > I > > > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the proposal. > > > > > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the > > opposite of > > > the > > > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on > > this issue, > > > but > > > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. He can't > > > make > > > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would be no > > > > substance to it. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the > > round is over. > > > New > > > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone jumping in > > > while > > > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think that > > > > > we need new > > > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, > > then it's a > > > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the rest of us > > get > > > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > > > interesting game. > > > > > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > > > propoal is to be > > > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole purpose > > > > > of passing > > > > > a > > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he > > needed one more > > > vote > > > > > to > > > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that senario. > > > > > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new player to > > > > > propose a > > > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > > law[3A6C329D] > > > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. ill > > > > > try to have > > > > > a > > > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next turn. > > > > > until then, > > > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon > > > sending > > > > > an > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is > > > complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld > > > > > until all > > > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon > > casting his > > > or > > > > > her > > > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only voting > > method, > > > in > > > > > > fact > > > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > > > officially begin > > > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can > > vote (in any > > > > > manner) > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better deadline > > > > > would allow > > > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand up to a > > > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order > > (201), any > > > > > change > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a numerical > > > > > heirarchy to > > > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new proposal > > > always > > > > > > has > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that it > > > > > includes new > > > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately > > > > > upon sending > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction > > affidavit, a > > > new > > > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all open > > > > > polls are > > > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then the > > > > > person's first > > > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter the order > > > after > > > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and > > bacon sandwich > > > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > > > instead of how > > > > > i > > > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the > > sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > > > or copying > > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an e From eventi@n... Mon Jan 22 09:37:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 17:37:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 90042 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 17:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 17:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 17:24:23 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14155 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:24:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <980182040.66401@egroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This is marked EXPERIMENTAL, since it was generated somewhat automatically... Please review it, and remember that it's a good faith representation of the Rules currently in play, and not necessarily the final word. Let me know if you see any errors, or if the formatting can be improved. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:47 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > > > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains > group. > > File : /nomic.html > Uploaded by : eventi@c... > Description : EXPERIMENTAL Rules HTML Version > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/nomic%2Ehtml > > To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit > > http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html > > > Regards, > > eventi@c... > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 22 11:50:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 19:50:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 40814 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 19:35:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 19:35:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 19:35:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0MJZQa58052 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:35:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401c084aa$6297dbc0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:34:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" This looks real nice and shiny! Much easier format to read. Very cool. Just run the spell-check! ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > This is marked EXPERIMENTAL, since it was generated somewhat > automatically... Please review it, and remember that it's a good faith > representation of the Rules currently in play, and not necessarily the final > word. Let me know if you see any errors, or if the formatting can be > improved. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:47 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains > > group. > > > > File : /nomic.html > > Uploaded by : eventi@c... > > Description : EXPERIMENTAL Rules HTML Version > > > > You can access this file at the URL > > > > http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/nomic%2Ehtml > > > > To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit > > > > http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html > > > > > > Regards, > > > > eventi@c... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Jan 22 12:53:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 22 Jan 2001 20:53:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 15057 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 20:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2001 20:33:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 21:34:20 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04929 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:33:14 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001401c084aa$6297dbc0$c6a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, done... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:35 PM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > > > This looks real nice and shiny! Much easier format to read. Very cool. > > Just run the spell-check! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > > > > This is marked EXPERIMENTAL, since it was generated somewhat > > automatically... Please review it, and remember that it's a good faith > > representation of the Rules currently in play, and not necessarily the > final > > word. Let me know if you see any errors, or if the formatting can be > > improved. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:47 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] New file uploaded to scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains > > > group. > > > > > > File : /nomic.html > > > Uploaded by : eventi@c... > > > Description : EXPERIMENTAL Rules HTML Version > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL > > > > > > http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/nomic%2Ehtml > > > > > > To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit > > > > > > http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > eventi@c... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Jan 23 07:21:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 23 Jan 2001 15:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 89722 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2001 15:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Jan 2001 15:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Jan 2001 16:14:08 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0NFCva86973 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:12:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c0854e$e229afe0$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <94hoq2+75oc@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:12:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" So when's the vote? ----- Original Message ----- From: Fritz Hemker To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:57 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > Fellow Players, > > I'm sorry that I haven't had anything to say so far. What with my > applications and work I've been too busy to thoughtfully consider the > proposal. > > I like the fact that this proposal normalizes, or explicitly explains > how the entrance of players works. I thought that with a player > introducing in the middle of a vote that there was room for > misunderstanding due to non-explicit rules. From that point of view, > this is a good proposal. > > However, like Pat says, it does tend to take away an incentive to add > new players. Of course, with the "be fruitfull and multiply rule" > still in place I believe that there is still plenty of incentive left. > While this may cut off some of Pat's future nefarious plans <;-p, it > does not seem to be all doom and gloom. > > We might see it as a good thing that all the rules aren't being done > unanimously. Now we are really starting to play. I wonder who's > going to be unlucky enough to pass a rule that doesn't pass at all... > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > It's the wrong kind of incentive. It's in effect saying everyone > gets one > > free vote for introducing a member. Also, when does the vote end? > We've > > been ending it once everyone's voted, but now we don't know who > everyone is. > > Allowing voters to enter during the vote will lead to far more > problems than > > it will solve. > > > > I'd continue, but I've got work to do. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:43 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > Well, I suppose the argument is moot. You and Eug and Steven > > > will all vote > > > for it, so it'll pass. It remains to be seen if I'll vote for it, > or if > > > Fritz will. > > > > > > I really don't think that this law does anything *except* remove > an > > > incentive to introduce new members. I'm not willing to do that. > I don't > > > mind if a new player comes in to pass a law, because once that > > > player is in > > > the game, they will play to win. That will make them independent > enough. > > > > > > Secondly, if what you're worried about is "the Laura situation" > (Fritz- > > > Laura is Steve and Bob's little sister), then what is needed is > not a law > > > restricting the right to vote, but one that beefs up the penalty > for > > > non-participation (perhaps by extending the penalty to the > introducing > > > player, etc.). > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:21 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > I think having someone come in when there is a proposal being > > > voted on is > > > > wrong. Why can't they wait until the next vote. They don't have > to wait > > > > until the whole round is over. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:09 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not asking Steven to do anything. I'm just presenting my > > > side of the > > > > argument. My post wasn't a suggestion for him to change the > > > proposal. As > > > I > > > > said in my original response, I'm still not sold on the > proposal. > > > > > > > > Why is it such a bad idea to have new players coming in? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:05 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > I Agree. Pat- you're asking Steven to basically propose the > > > opposite of > > > > the > > > > > intent of his original proposal. You know where I stand on > > > this issue, > > > > but > > > > > I think reversing the proposal at this point would be wrong. > He can't > > > > make > > > > > a non-proposal, and if he follows your reasoning, there would > be no > > > > > substance to it. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:48 AM > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like the proposal. You can't start playing until the > > > round is over. > > > > New > > > > > > players can join in at any time I rather not have someone > jumping in > > > > while > > > > > > there is a proposal on the table. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:42 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm actually biased in the other direction. I still think > that > > > > > > we need new > > > > > > players. If Bob brought you in just to pass his proposal, > > > then it's a > > > > > > win-win situation. Bob gets his proposal passed, and the > rest of us > > > get > > > > > > another player added into the mix, which makes for a more > > > > > > interesting game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I *like* the incentive to add new players. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:36 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the right to vote is restricted in the case when a final > > > > > > propoal is to be > > > > > > > voted on to aviod bringing in new players for the sole > purpose > > > > > > of passing > > > > > > a > > > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for instance, say that bob brought me in because he > > > needed one more > > > > vote > > > > > > to > > > > > > > pass his proposal. this rule is made to aviod that > senario. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also, it clears up the dillema of when to allow a new > player to > > > > > > propose a > > > > > > > new rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:30 AM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sold on the idea. Why restrict the right to vote > at all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:10 AM > > > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks ok to me. Any other objections? > > > > > > > > ------ > > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > > > Subject:[scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 309: 'Newbe' > > > law[3A6C329D] > > > > > > > > hello monday's children. a good week to all employed. > ill > > > > > > try to have > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > more interesting proposal for discussion on the next > turn. > > > > > > until then, > > > > > > > > chew on this for a day or two. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote > immediately upon > > > > sending > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals > is > > > > complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon > sending an > > > > > > > introduction > > > > > > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be > withheld > > > > > > until all > > > > > > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This new participant will enter the order of play upon > > > casting his > > > > or > > > > > > her > > > > > > > > first vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:31 AM > > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Polls have not (yet) been established as the only > voting > > > method, > > > > in > > > > > > > fact > > > > > > > > it was only used this one past time. So voting does not > > > > > > officially begin > > > > > > > > with the creation of the poll, rather any player can > > > vote (in any > > > > > > manner) > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > soon as the proposal is finalized. Perhaps a better > deadline > > > > > > would allow > > > > > > > > this portion of the proposal, but as is, it won't stand > up to a > > > > > > > challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Since there's already a rule establishing turn order > > > (201), any > > > > > > change > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > it would have to amend that rule, since there's a > numerical > > > > > > heirarchy to > > > > > > > > rule disputes. The lower numbered rule wins, and a new > proposal > > > > always > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > higher number. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But there's hope: > > > > > > > > You could rewrite the first part and ammend #201 so that > it > > > > > > includes new > > > > > > > > player introduction. After all, it's relevant to turn > order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --e (here we go again --Dolly Pardon) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:36 PM > > > > > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' > > > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 309: 'Newbe' law > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right to vote > immediately > > > > > > upon sending > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > introduction affidavit, if no open polls exists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If an open poll exists upon sending an introduction > > > affidavit, a > > > > new > > > > > > > > > participant's right to vote will be withheld until all > open > > > > > > polls are > > > > > > > > > closed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new participant's position in the order will be > > > alphabetically > > > > > > > > > determined, depending on the person's surname, then > the > > > > > > person's first > > > > > > > > > name, if necessary. This new participant will enter > the order > > > > after > > > > > > > > > casting a vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahhh, that was easy after my grilled chicken and > > > bacon sandwich > > > > > > > > > on a burnt > > > > > > > > > bun with barbeque sauce (the spellcheck had 'barbecue' > > > > > > instead of how > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > spelled it...?). enjoy this as much as i enjoyed the > > > sandwich! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this > > > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution > > > > > > or copying > > > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or > > > copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an e > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@egroups.com Tue Jan 23 07:35:30 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84616 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2001 15:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2001 15:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jan 2001 15:29:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2001 15:29:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 31997 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Jan 2001 15:29:32 -0000 Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:29:32 -0000 Message-ID: <980263772.31994@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Begin Final Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete. This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote. End Final Proposal 309 o in favor o not in favor To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/scatterbrains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 23 07:37:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 23 Jan 2001 15:37:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 4491 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2001 15:31:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2001 15:31:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Jan 2001 15:31:44 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0NGXcq19465 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:33:38 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7M0063ZGGTES@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:31:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:31:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:31:16 -0500 Subject: Proposal 309 Final Form To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08527.9E5A2320.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" Begin Final Form of Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete. This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote. End Final Form of Proposal 309 steve0 From eventi@n... Tue Jan 23 21:45:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 05:45:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 47802 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 05:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 05:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 06:46:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: eventi@n... Received: from [10.1.2.113] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2001 05:45:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:44:54 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: New poll for scatterbrains Message-ID: <94lq4m+8uq9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <980263772.31994@egroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 223 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.29.109.18 From: eventi@n... Looks like all 5 votes are in. --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, scatterbrains@egroups.com wrote: > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains > group: > > > Begin Final Proposal 309 > ... From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 05:51:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 13:51:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 85844 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 13:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 13:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 14:52:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0ODoxa94611 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:51:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002601c0860c$9c9ae3e0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <94lq4m+8uq9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:50:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Does that mean that it's my turn? Or should I wait for the results to be posted? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:44 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > Looks like all 5 votes are in. > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, scatterbrains@egroups.com wrote: > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the > scatterbrains > > group: > > > > > > Begin Final Proposal 309 > > ... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 06:41:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 14:41:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 61286 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 14:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 14:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 14:39:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03056 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:39:35 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002601c0860c$9c9ae3e0$c5a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It's your rule (306) that decides, I can't score it until the results are shown. I really don't think anyone would challenge it, though. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:50 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > Does that mean that it's my turn? Or should I wait for the results to be > posted? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:44 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > Looks like all 5 votes are in. > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, scatterbrains@egroups.com wrote: > > > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the > > scatterbrains > > > group: > > > > > > > > > Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > ... > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 06:48:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 14:48:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 91577 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 14:46:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 14:46:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 14:46:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OEkKa99449 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:46:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004d01c08614$54e16760$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:45:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" No, I'll wait. I just wasn't sure, with the whole poll thing. I guess we just have to wait for Steven to finish kissing his girlfriend or something. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > It's your rule (306) that decides, I can't score it until the results are > shown. I really don't think anyone would challenge it, though. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:50 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > Does that mean that it's my turn? Or should I wait for the results to be > > posted? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:44 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > > Looks like all 5 votes are in. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, scatterbrains@egroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the > > > scatterbrains > > > > group: > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 24 07:00:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:00:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 22837 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 14:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 14:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 14:57:01 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0OEv0E15150 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:57:00 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7O00FIW9IYGE@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:56:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:56:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:56:38 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C085EB.F269C280.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" haha...Done! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:46 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains No, I'll wait. I just wasn't sure, with the whole poll thing. I guess we just have to wait for Steven to finish kissing his girlfriend or something. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > It's your rule (306) that decides, I can't score it until the results are > shown. I really don't think anyone would challenge it, though. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:50 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > Does that mean that it's my turn? Or should I wait for the results to be > > posted? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:44 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > > Looks like all 5 votes are in. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, scatterbrains@egroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the > > > scatterbrains > > > > group: > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From scatterbrains@egroups.com Wed Jan 24 07:01:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13149 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 14:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 14:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 14:57:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.99] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2001 14:57:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 34663 invoked by uid 65534); 24 Jan 2001 14:57:35 -0000 Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:57:35 -0000 Message-ID: <980348255.34660@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@egroups.com To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete. If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete. This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote. End Final Proposal 309 CHOICES AND RESULTS - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 07:11:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:11:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 50999 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:07:30 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OF6Ha01430 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:06:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006e01c08617$218359c0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <980348255.34660@egroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:05:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" OH! That's interesting... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:57 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right > to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if all voting > on final proposals is complete. > > If voting on a final proposal is not > complete upon sending an introduction > affidavit, a new participant's right to > vote will be withheld until all > voting on final proposals is complete. > > This new participant will enter the > order of play upon casting his or her > first vote. > > End Final Proposal 309 > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% > - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with eGroups, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 07:13:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:13:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 2535 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:07:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OF6ba01591 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:06:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007101c08617$2d339960$c5a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:05:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01C085ED.38303280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C085ED.38303280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of= smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have= the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal= from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of go= od order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excl= uded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which s= hall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, t= hough they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the sever= ity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are = immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the pe= ople at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from = the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magi= strate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not i= ncluding the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny th= e candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable t= o fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. = The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception = of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the = Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magi= strate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If= at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so wit= h a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an= overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magi= strate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall= appoint his successor.=20 The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a s= miting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgmen= t, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successf= ul death penalty administered. =20 End Proposal 310.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C085ED.38303280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Proposal 310:
 
An office shall be created, called the Chi= ef=20 Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments).&nb= sp;=20 The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up t= o the=20 penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the= =20 general maintenance of good order within the regime.
 
All smitings must be done publicly wi= thin 2=20 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carr= y the=20 penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation.  All punishment= s=20 less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgmen= t=20 (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether).&nbs= p;=20 All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be=20 supported unanimously by the people at large.
 
The office of Chief Magistrate shall origi= nally be=20 filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appoint= ed by=20 the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large.  = A=20 unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall b= e=20 required to deny the candidate the office.  If for any reason the Chie= f=20 Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he m= ay=20 swear in a Deputy.  The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistr= ate,=20 with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to=20 power.  Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases m= ay be=20 referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's=20 return.
 
The term of the Chief Magistrate will be f= or life,=20 given good behavior.  If at any time the people decide to remove the=20 Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the= =20 Magistrate).  In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in= the=20 automatic removal of the Magistrate from office.  However, in either o= f=20 these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. 
 
The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point= for each=20 successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentenc= e is=20 altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points= for=20 each successful death penalty administered.
 
End Proposal 310. 
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C085ED.38303280-- From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 07:15:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:15:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20892 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:10:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06007 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:10:01 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:11:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <980348255.34660@egroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" One problem: I need to know who the 2 opposing voters were, since by 204 they each get 10 points. Steven There was an option for this at poll creation, maybe someone should write simple instructions for that. If you can see who they were, let us know, otherwise we'll have to take their word for it. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:58 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 > > A new participant will gain the right > to vote immediately upon sending an > introduction affidavit, if all voting > on final proposals is complete. > > If voting on a final proposal is not > complete upon sending an introduction > affidavit, a new participant's right to > vote will be withheld until all > voting on final proposals is complete. > > This new participant will enter the > order of play upon casting his or her > first vote. > > End Final Proposal 309 > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% > - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with eGroups, please visit > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 24 07:19:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:19:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 35810 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:15:19 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0OFFHE16747 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:15:17 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7O00G8DADFP4@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:14:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:14:56 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C085EE.808CDDC0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" this was building up, wasn't it? you couldn't wait a half a day to burst? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. << File: ATT00001.htm >> From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 07:23:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:23:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 34642 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:19:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OFIea02940 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:18:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008901c08618$d972f260$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:18:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I don't think that it's any mystery that I was one of them. [nothing personal, Steve, of course.] ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > One problem: I need to know who the 2 opposing voters were, since by 204 > they each get 10 points. > > Steven > There was an option for this at poll creation, maybe someone should write > simple instructions for that. If you can see who they were, let us know, > otherwise we'll have to take their word for it. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:58 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > final results: > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > > A new participant will gain the right > > to vote immediately upon sending an > > introduction affidavit, if all voting > > on final proposals is complete. > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not > > complete upon sending an introduction > > affidavit, a new participant's right to > > vote will be withheld until all > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > This new participant will enter the > > order of play upon casting his or her > > first vote. > > > > End Final Proposal 309 > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% > > - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > For help with eGroups, please visit > > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 07:34:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:34:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3251 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:28:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07905 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:28:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:30:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <008901c08618$d972f260$c5a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, and I was the other, so we can score... I was just in it for the points. This gives Steven (15*(3/5))=9 Points, and Pat and I each get 10. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:18 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > I don't think that it's any mystery that I was one of them. [nothing > personal, Steve, of course.] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:11 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > One problem: I need to know who the 2 opposing voters were, since by 204 > > they each get 10 points. > > > > Steven > > There was an option for this at poll creation, maybe someone > should write > > simple instructions for that. If you can see who they were, > let us know, > > otherwise we'll have to take their word for it. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:58 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right > > > to vote immediately upon sending an > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting > > > on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not > > > complete upon sending an introduction > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to > > > vote will be withheld until all > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > This new participant will enter the > > > order of play upon casting his or her > > > first vote. > > > > > > End Final Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with eGroups, please visit > > > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 07:53:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:53:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 27630 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:46:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OFkBa05371 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:46:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009901c0861c$b1871480$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C085EE.808CDDC0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:45:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Had this thing sitting in my Draft box for days. My finger was getting itchy on the send button. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 > this was building up, wasn't it? > > you couldn't wait a half a day to burst? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 > > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of > good order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days > excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, > which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are > final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter > the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty > cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously > by the people at large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from > the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going > Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote > (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to > deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is > unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a > Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the > exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. > Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be > referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's > return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If > at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with > a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an > overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the > Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate > shall appoint his successor. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > << File: ATT00001.htm >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Jan 24 07:53:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 69423 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:45:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2001 15:45:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:45:47 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 310 Message-ID: <94mtbb+dd5u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <007101c08617$2d339960$c5a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2651 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: "Fritz Hemker" Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal would be disruptive to the game. Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty admi From scatterbrains@egroups.com Wed Jan 24 07:54:38 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17200 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:46:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2001 15:46:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 71895 invoked by uid 65534); 24 Jan 2001 15:46:42 -0000 Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:46:42 -0000 Message-ID: <980351202.71891@egroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /nomic.html Uploaded by : eventi@c... Description : The HTML Rules File You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/scatterbrains/nomic%2Ehtml To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, eventi@c... From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 24 07:55:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 15:55:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 62779 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 15:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 15:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 15:48:15 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0OFmDE19784 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:48:13 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7O00HC2BWCHB@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:48:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:47:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:47:52 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C085F3.1AAA7620.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" my bad... i misread 204. i thought the opposition would get points if the rule did not pass. ill keep this in mind for the future -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:30 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains OK, and I was the other, so we can score... I was just in it for the points. This gives Steven (15*(3/5))=9 Points, and Pat and I each get 10. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:18 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > I don't think that it's any mystery that I was one of them. [nothing > personal, Steve, of course.] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:11 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > One problem: I need to know who the 2 opposing voters were, since by 204 > > they each get 10 points. > > > > Steven > > There was an option for this at poll creation, maybe someone > should write > > simple instructions for that. If you can see who they were, > let us know, > > otherwise we'll have to take their word for it. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: scatterbrains@egroups.com [mailto:scatterbrains@egroups.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:58 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Begin Final Proposal 309 > > > > > > A new participant will gain the right > > > to vote immediately upon sending an > > > introduction affidavit, if all voting > > > on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > If voting on a final proposal is not > > > complete upon sending an introduction > > > affidavit, a new participant's right to > > > vote will be withheld until all > > > voting on final proposals is complete. > > > > > > This new participant will enter the > > > order of play upon casting his or her > > > first vote. > > > > > > End Final Proposal 309 > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - in favor, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > - not in favor, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with eGroups, please visit > > > http://www.egroups.com/help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 08:11:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:11:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 60208 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:01:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OG10a06810 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:01:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b201c0861e$c3a846a0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <94mtbb+dd5u@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:00:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. As it stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one who controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely divorced from the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it in his head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. ----- Original Message ----- From: Fritz Hemker To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal > would be disruptive to the game. > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > proposal. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Proposal 310: > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 08:22:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:22:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 56517 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:14:11 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OGE2a08229 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:14:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00db01c08620$98806280$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <94mtbb+dd5u@eGroups.com> <00b201c0861e$c3a846a0$c5a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:13:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" BTW - when you think about it, it's not really THAT much power, since there is a constant check on the Magistrate's authority... ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. > > My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. As it > stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one who > controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely divorced from > the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it in his > head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fritz Hemker > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal > > would be disruptive to the game. > > > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > > proposal. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Proposal 310: > > > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the > > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for > > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those > > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of > > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than > > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in > > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > > election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by > > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. > > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) > > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason > > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all > > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, > > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not > > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, > > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, > > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in > > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is > > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 08:28:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:28:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 73668 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:19:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13103 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:19:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:21:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00b201c0861e$c3a846a0$c5a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" That's why I'm opposed to it. BTW- Check your score. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:00 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. > > My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. As it > stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one who > controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely divorced from > the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it in his > head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fritz Hemker > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal > > would be disruptive to the game. > > > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > > proposal. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Proposal 310: > > > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the > > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for > > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those > > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of > > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than > > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in > > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > > election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by > > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. > > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) > > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason > > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all > > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, > > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not > > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, > > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, > > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in > > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is > > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Jan 24 08:37:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:37:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 47882 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:26:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.69] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2001 16:26:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:26:48 -0000 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 310 Message-ID: <94mvo8+qr33@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00b201c0861e$c3a846a0$c5a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4251 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: "Fritz Hemker" For example, the lack of time limits on assesing the penatly of death. Does that mean that I could remember something you did at the very beggining of the game and get you kicked out for it? Is that ex post facto or what? All simitings must be done within two days of what? The offence, the actual indictment, what? The office should definatly be time limited. The failure to succesfully prosecute a death sentance should carry its own harsh penatly beyond simple removal from office. As you may know, I'm a big fan of law and order. However, this remedy is worse than the disease. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. > > My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. As it > stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one who > controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely divorced from > the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it in his > head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fritz Hemker > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal > > would be disruptive to the game. > > > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > > proposal. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Proposal 310: > > > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the > > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for > > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those > > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of > > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than > > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in > > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > > election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by > > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. > > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) > > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason > > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all > > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, > > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not > > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, > > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, > > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in > > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is > > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsu From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 08:49:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:49:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 83359 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 17:39:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OGcha10735 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:38:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e701c08624$08aa5860$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:38:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" You see! You see! Technically, if he wanted to stand on this, there's NOTHING in the rules to stop him. However, if we codified the magistracy power, that would bring it under control! Secondly, I would have codified the point-giver role first, but the Magistrate seemed like more fun. Doing them both in the same law was arguably (alright obviously) an illegal combination of two laws. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > That's why I'm opposed to it. BTW- Check your score. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 11:00 AM > > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. > > > > My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. As it > > stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one who > > controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely divorced from > > the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it in his > > head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Fritz Hemker > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > > > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > > > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this proposal > > > would be disruptive to the game. > > > > > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > > > proposal. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > > wrote: > > > > Proposal 310: > > > > > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > > > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > > > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the > > > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for > > > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those > > > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of > > > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than > > > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > > > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > > > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in > > > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > > > election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by > > > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. > > > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) > > > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason > > > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all > > > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, > > > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not > > > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, > > > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > > > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, > > > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > > > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in > > > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > > > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > > > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is > > > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > > > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 24 08:52:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 16:52:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 83187 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0OGfwE24893 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:41:58 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7O00J9MEDWQA@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:41:56 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:41:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:41:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C085FA.9C8EDB20.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" True, we do need an impartial voice as one who will uphold the rule of law. but i think an office of this magnitude is prese -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. << File: ATT00001.htm >> From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 24 09:02:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 17:02:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 50959 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 17:52:13 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0OGp6E25631 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:51:06 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7O00JHXET4QA@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:50:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:50:44 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C085FB.E2EDE1A0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" let me try this again... True, we do need an impartial voice as one who will uphold the rule of law. but i think an office with this much authority, for life no less, would be too intimidating for the rest of the players. for someone just introduced to the game, this magistrate can be looked upon them almost as 'big brother', scrutinizing every detail in each e-mail, waiting to capitalize on the naive flaws of a newbe. it is funny that this proposal will do more to discourage new players by intimidating them, thus hurting the 'be fruitful and mulitply' bill. at this stage of our rule making, i am more in favor of short, strong declarations toward a trim structure. pat, i'd rather not get bogged down in rule-abiding anxiety. this proposal needs a serious haircut. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. << File: ATT00001.htm >> From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 09:11:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 17:11:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 92700 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 16:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 17:59:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA17296 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:58:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:00:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <007101c08617$2d339960$c5a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Just a few questions: Is his power limited only to penalties prescribed "according to the law"? Why a different statute of limitations based on the _penalty_? Suppose the penalty for 30 days of inactivity is death. If a player returned on day 31, and the CM hadn't already executed him, what would be the point in doing it on day 354? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 09:23:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 17:23:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 80421 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 17:04:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 17:04:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 17:04:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0OH4na13355 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:04:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ed01c08627$adff2540$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <94mvo8+qr33@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:04:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > For example, the lack of time limits on assesing the penatly of death. > Does that mean that I could remember something you did at the very > beggining of the game and get you kicked out for it? Is that ex post > facto or what? > There's already a law prohibiting ex post facto *laws*. By nature all *punishment* is ex post facto. The key issue is whether a law can criminalize behavior before the law existed. Clearly, that's wrong. That's outside the sphere of this proposal, but as I said, it's already been prohibited. So, if a law is passed making it punishable by death to randomly subtract 10,000 points from somebody's score, we can't kill Eugene because he did it before the law. That, I agree, is right and as it should be. However, it *is* advisable to leave the time frame open otherwise. Suppose there was a law against the subtraction, Eug did it anyway, and nobody noticed for a while - shouldn't he still be killed? Also, I was thinking about the non-play rule, which is currently the only thing to carry the penalty of death. When does the "crime" actually occur? Since it's actually a compilation of crimes, which occur for longer than 2 days, it seems that the death penalty would have to be unlimited. Moreover, I think that the death penalty is generally going to be used for patterns of behavior, rather than serious and shocking blasphemies and crimes that immediately call for death. That means that the Magistrate has to be free to refer to a long train of injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny... Finally, minor crimes should be limited, time wise, to prevent the very thing that you worry about - a vindictive Magistrate from researching everyone's behavior and finding little crimes all the time. Most crimes that affect game play will be noticed fairly quickly, and so should be punished within the 2 day limit. I really do think that this strikes a compromise between the two positions, while still allowing the Magistrate the ability to do his job. > All simitings must be done within two days of what? The offence, the > actual indictment, what? > My original thought was 2 days from the offence. I envisioned a process where indictment was concurrent with smiting. > The office should definatly be time limited. The failure to > succesfully prosecute a death sentance should carry its own harsh > penatly beyond simple removal from office. > I'm somewhat flexible on these two issues. However, the time limit should be sufficiently long to provide the necessary independence of the Magistrate. You don't want someone afraid to smite to increase his popularity! Also - what about the end of term? Wouldn't the Magistrate be tempted to pardon his friends despite the opprobrium this might bring? I mean it won't hurt since he's leaving anyway... > As you may know, I'm a big fan of law and order. However, this remedy > is worse than the disease. > Oh, it's not that bad... I guess my monarchy proposal should wait awhile, though. (Royal House of Bernardo!) > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > He, He. I knew that you would be my chief interlocutor on this one. > > > > My thinking behind it was basically that we do need a Magistrate. > As it > > stands, Eug actually already has this power because he is the one > who > > controls the scoreboard. It's just that power is completely > divorced from > > the game. He could do pretty much whatever he wants, if he got it > in his > > head. My proposal brings this power into the structure of the game. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Fritz Hemker > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:45 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > Easy now, Pat. I object to the very idea of giving any one player > > > that much power. I don't have any recommendations or amendments > > > because I think the whole idea is too much. Adoption of this > proposal > > > would be disruptive to the game. > > > > > > Perhaps you could give us a rundown of your thinking behind this > > > proposal. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@egroups.com, "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > > wrote: > > > > Proposal 310: > > > > > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > > > purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief > > > Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to > the > > > penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and > for > > > the general maintenance of good order within the regime. > > > > > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding > those > > > days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty > of > > > death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less > than > > > death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment > > > (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it > > > altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" > in > > > that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. > > > > > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by > > > election from the group at large, but successors shall be > appointed by > > > the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at > large. > > > A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the > nominee) > > > shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any > reason > > > the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have > all > > > the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death > penalty, > > > until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may > not > > > inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the > Magistrate, > > > which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good > > > behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the > Magistrate, > > > they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the > > > Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall > result in > > > the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in > > > either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. > > > > > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > > > smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence > is > > > altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten > (10) > > > points for each successful death penalty admi > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsu > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 14:44:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 24 Jan 2001 22:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 95832 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2001 22:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2001 22:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Jan 2001 22:29:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20259 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:29:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:30:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <007101c08617$2d339960$c5a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm pretty much for it, with a couple of reservations: I'm not sure if i like the wording of the first paragraph. It could be read two ways: CM acts ( according to the law OR for "general maintenance of good order within the regime") or CM acts ( according to the law, for "general maintenance of good order within the regime" ) I'm not sold on the idea of defining the statue of limitations along with this law, and definately don't think it should hinge on the type of penalty. Clarify the original election procedings. Does everyone have to vote? Majority? etc... There should be a limit, however long, to the term. A de-frocked CM should NOT appoint his successor. There should be another election. There's no reason I see for giving 10 points for death penalty officiation. That said, I actually like the idea of a Chief Magistrate. It's really only technical differences I see. --e -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. eGroups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 19:07:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 25 Jan 2001 03:07:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 28634 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2001 03:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Jan 2001 03:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Jan 2001 03:07:21 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0P37Ia70480 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:07:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c0867b$d71a5360$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:06:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > I'm pretty much for it, with a couple of reservations: Woo-hoo! I need every vote that I can get! > I'm not sold on the idea of defining the statue of limitations along with > this law, and definately don't think it should hinge on the type of penalty. > Why not? There is already a distinction between the death penalty and other violations, since the former has to be accepted by all, but minor violations don't. (Check the wording on 308) Secondly, I think, as I said before, that death penalty violations will generally be of the type that your behavior has been unacceptable, etc. The violations will stretch back longer than 2 days. OTOH, in order to avoid the concerns that both Fritz and Steven have raised, I thought that it would be necessary to include a sort of statute of limitations to make it absolutely clear, up front, that the Magistrate will not be spending his time snooping through the history of the group and smiting people for small infractions from long ago. Moreover, this will prevent an enterprising Magistrate from storing up smitings and then using them all at a time that's convenient. I guess that I could just remove the time limit language, but I think that that would be more objectionable to most people - is that true? Can you state more clearly your objection? > Clarify the original election procedings. Does everyone have to vote? > Majority? etc... > I'm currently uninterested in redefining election. AFAIK, with no law in place defining election, we can run with the common meaning. That'll be majority. > There should be a limit, however long, to the term. > I think that this weakens the office considerably, but I wouldn't object to a long term. > A de-frocked CM should NOT appoint his successor. There should be another > election. > But there is an election! The people get to say no if they want! > There's no reason I see for giving 10 points for death penalty officiation. > Considering the penalty for losing a death case, the Magistrate needs some inducement to pursue them. The penalty/reward system approximates the adversarial system, in some sense. Also, the Magistrate is doing some work, and should get a little something at the end of the week for a job well done. > That said, I actually like the idea of a Chief Magistrate. It's really > only technical differences I see. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 > > > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good > order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days > excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, > which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are > final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter > the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty > cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously > by the people at large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from > the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going > Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote > (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to > deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is > unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a > Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the > exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. > Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred > to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If > at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with > a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an > overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the > Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate > shall appoint his successor. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > > eGroups Sponsor > > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 19:15:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 25 Jan 2001 03:15:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 41480 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2001 03:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2001 03:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 25 Jan 2001 04:15:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0P3Eea70983 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:14:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c0867c$dece42a0$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <01C085FB.E2EDE1A0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:14:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" From: Steven G. Arturo > True, we do need an impartial voice as one who will uphold the rule of law. Right on! > but i think an office with this much authority, for life no less, would be > too intimidating for the rest of the players. for someone just introduced > to the game, this magistrate can be looked upon them almost as 'big > brother', scrutinizing every detail in each e-mail, waiting to capitalize > on the naive flaws of a newbe. it is funny that this proposal will do more > to discourage new players by intimidating them, thus hurting the 'be > fruitful and mulitply' bill. > Not at all. I see no way in which this might be intimidating to new players. TTYTT, we don't have people shopping around, and even if we did, I doubt that the first thing on their mind would be the big, scary magistrate in scatterbrains. Beside the fact that the Magistrate is neither big nor scary, they'd be more intimidated by NO procedures at all. I think it's a stretch to argue that this would have a chilling affect on recruitment. Besides, there is a mechanism already included for the cases in which the Magistrate acts like a big jerk. Kick him out. In addition, I don't think that "naive flaws" have been criminalized, yet. If you look again, I think that you will see that the Magistrate is much more limited than your initial reaction seems to suggest. > at this stage of our rule making, i am more in favor of short, strong > declarations toward a trim structure. pat, i'd rather not get bogged down > in rule-abiding anxiety. > Me too! I absolutely agree that rules shouldn't be any longer than necessary. But what in this is overly verbose? Don't forget, I did have certain qualifications to fulfill (307). In addition, I tried, as much as possible, to anticipate the objections, and deal with them in a straight-forward - and trim - manner. Worse than a wordy law is one too short and too vague. From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 24 19:18:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_2); 25 Jan 2001 03:18:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 59872 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2001 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Jan 2001 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Jan 2001 03:18:49 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0P3Ila71332 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:18:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c0867d$724173e0$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:18:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 12:00 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 > > Just a few questions: > > Is his power limited only to penalties prescribed "according to the law"? > I don't think that it is possible to grant other powers. The Magistrate is here to punish people for breaking the law. > Why a different statute of limitations based on the _penalty_? Suppose the > penalty for 30 days of inactivity is death. If a player returned on day 31, > and the CM hadn't already executed him, what would be the point in doing it > on day 354? > Rather, there's this question: for inactivity on which of the days is the death penalty imposed? For just the 26th? In fact it's for the whole time period - from the 1st day of activity up to the 25th (or 26 depending upon how you want to read 308). This time period is quite difficult to nail down in the sense of the criminal act was commited on day x and hence is within the statute of limitation... There is no point in punishing the criminal on day 354, really. If a Magistrate waits that long, he should be removed for failing to fulfill the duties of his office. From eventi@n... Wed Jan 24 22:09:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2); 25 Jan 2001 06:09:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 66338 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2001 06:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2001 06:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Jan 2001 06:09:39 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA15588 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:09:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c08695$5a080ce0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <000501c0867b$d71a5360$cba811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:08:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I spent an hour replying to this, but Outlook Express crashed. So I'm going to try to recap, but with far less energy than before. You missed a truly inspired reply... This is all in an effort to refine what I believe to be a good proposal. > I guess that I could just remove the time limit language, but I think that > that would be more objectionable to most people - is that true? Can you > state more clearly your objection? Here's where I elloquently stated my point. Lost to the great bit-bucket in the sky... My understanding of CM is that he decides on penalties not prescribed by the violated rule. If a CM first decides that an offence is punishable by death, he could hold back administration of penalty indefinately. I'd back a longer time limit than two days for all violations. > > Clarify the original election procedings. Does everyone have to vote? > > Majority? etc... > > > I'm currently uninterested in redefining election. AFAIK, with no law in > place defining election, we can run with the common meaning. That'll be > majority. I had a really good paragraph here. If this proposition passes by majority only, and if one of us decides not to vote in the election, there's no CM... You better get interrested in defining elections. Remember, we've never had one. > > There should be a limit, however long, to the term. > > > I think that this weakens the office considerably, but I wouldn't object to > a long term. > > > A de-frocked CM should NOT appoint his successor. There should be another > > election. > > > But there is an election! The people get to say no if they want! I think you'd better defend you position a little better here... Suppose PB is corrupt, EV less so, and FH still less. BA & SA are virtuous beyond reproach. PB is dethroned, passing the post to EV. If FH backs him, there can't be unanimous objection. > > There's no reason I see for giving 10 points for death penalty > officiation. > > > Considering the penalty for losing a death case, the Magistrate needs some > inducement to pursue them. The penalty/reward system approximates the > adversarial system, in some sense. Also, the Magistrate is doing some work, > and should get a little something at the end of the week for a job well > done. I guess that's OK. Also, there's a loophole I saw when writing 307. Without giving away too much, a CM can be removed and replaced with a simple majority by the current rules, but I didn't see a way around it. Maybe I'll save it for later. with that i go to sleep... --e From sga5892@n... Thu Jan 25 05:45:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2); 25 Jan 2001 13:45:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 28583 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2001 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2001 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 25 Jan 2001 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0PDij711928 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:44:46 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7Q002FA0UK39@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:44:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:44:25 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C086AB.05EB2500.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" here is a summary of my objections and a few suggestions, keeping ongoing discussions in mind. i like eugene's point of offering a longer time frame for all punishments. there is a point to your not limiting the time for issuing a death penalty, where the CM can have time to accumulate and witness continuing bad behavior. assuming a limited time for issuing a death penalty, could a three strikes policy be implimented, to document the behavior of an individual? this is a bit of fat, but some fat is good. when you say 2 days, is this 2 business days? what kind of time frame for an appeal for a minor penalty? i do not like the magistrate appointing a successor when the CM is ousted. if teams are to be formed, we would have the family of punishers, all holding a pba card whenever they obliterate the speed limit. how's a supermajority for the ouster of a magistrate? pat, i haven't decided yet... i'll now wait for the first revision. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:06 AM To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law and for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days (excluding those days excluded by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall originally be filled by election from the group at large, but successors shall be appointed by the out-going Magistrate, with the consent of the populace at large. A unanimous vote (not including the former Magistrate or the nominee) shall be required to deny the candidate the office. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for life, given good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. However, in either of these cases the Magistrate shall appoint his successor. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. << File: ATT00001.htm >> From eventi@n... Fri Jan 26 07:21:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 15:20:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 7360 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 15:20:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27130 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:20:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:21:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001501c0867d$724173e0$cba811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, so you've had a day... Is there a revision on the horizon? From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 26 07:43:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 15:43:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 59627 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 15:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 16:42:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.193]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0QFfDa90913 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:41:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012a01c087ae$543088a0$c1a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:40:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0127_01C08784.6A13F6E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C08784.6A13F6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose = of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall ha= ve the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (remov= al from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of goo= d order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting = those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for offens= es which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. = All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a= call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss i= t altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that = they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group= at large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. If = for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a s= hort period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all th= e powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until = the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the d= eath penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecu= ted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any ti= me the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanim= ous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturne= d death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate fro= m office.=20=20 The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a= smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgm= ent, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each succes= sful death penalty administered. =20=20=20 End Proposal 310.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C08784.6A13F6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Proposal 310:
 
An office shall be created, called the C= hief=20 Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments).&= nbsp;=20 The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up= to=20 the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law, for t= he=20 general maintenance of good order within the regime.
 
All smitings must be done publicly = within 2=20 days of the offense(counting those days as official which have been speci= fied=20 by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shal= l=20 have no time limitation.  All punishments less than death are final,= =20 though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the=20 severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether).  All death penalt= y=20 cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimous= ly by=20 the people at large.
 
The office of Chief Magistrate shall&nbs= p;be=20 filled by election from the group at large.  The=20 Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election.  If fo= r any=20 reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short p= eriod=20 of time, he may swear in a Deputy.  The Deputy will have all the pow= ers=20 of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the=20 Magistrate returns to power.  Although the Deputy may not inflict th= e=20 death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be=20 prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return.
 
The term of the Chief Magistrate will be= for good=20 behavior.  If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate= ,=20 they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the=20 Magistrate).  In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result = in=20 the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. 
 
The Magistrate shall receive one (1) poi= nt for=20 each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the= =20 sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and t= en=20 (10) points for each successful death penalty administered.
 
End Proposal=20 310. 
------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C08784.6A13F6E0-- From eventi@n... Fri Jan 26 08:52:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 16:52:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 69228 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 16:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 16:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 17:53:21 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06880 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:52:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:53:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <012a01c087ae$543088a0$c1a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm more than a little disappointed. Without a definition of election, the filling of this position could drag on indefinately. And fix "The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior" in Paragraph 4, it's not clear. & You didn't see the loophole. And to top it off, it looks like yahoo swallowed egroups. --e -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:41 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group at large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. eGroups Sponsor Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain name below and press GO! www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 26 09:40:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 17:40:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 4986 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 17:38:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0QHcsa04273 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:38:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c087be$c5351420$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:38:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey, man. Satisfaction was never guaranteed. If election should have been defined anywhere, it should have been in YOUR law. Now we're stuck with option of either office-specific elections, or my law doing two things - proposing the chief magistrate position and defining elections. And the latter is clearly illegal. As for the term of good behavior, I don't see how it is unclear. The paragraph defines it. This is still up for discussion, and I was hoping to see what people thought of the overall law with the changes made. As for the loophole, why don't you either share it, or just wait and try to exploit it. It's quite possible that you are misreading the law and it doesn't exist. I can see a couple if you twist the meaning of the phrases, but nothing if you follow careful interpretation. Finally, if the loophole is just that a majority vote can change/alter this law, then whatever. In all honesty, I'm ready to just let this thing die, take the point loss, and go home. It's becoming too much like work. The demands are in general reasonable, but would require me to write a GODAMNED GOVERNMENT, not a position. If you don't like the position as it is, remember that it is ONLY A PART. It will have a context that in many cases is STILL TO BE DETERMINED. It will not be the whole government of scatterbrains, nor will it have primary responsible for doing much, it won't take out your garbage, sing to you at night, or make you iced tea. You will see how much the definition of the election swells this proposal tremendously. Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group at large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. Election for the purposes of this office shall take place as follows: a)the election process shall begin immediately upon passage of this law for the first magistrate, and hereafter, immediately upon the circumstances of the removal of the previous occupant b)this election shall be announced by either the outgoing magistrate, or by the author of the original law. There is NO discretion in calling the election, but this is a formality that will alert all members of the upcoming election. c) Candidates will declare themselves. d)a poll shall be created by the person who announced the poll. e) the candidate with the most votes will be named the new magistrate. f) if there is a tie, there will be a run-off vote between the highest scoring candidates. g) in the event that the runoff vote does not produce a clear winner, or that every player has declared himself a candidate the magistrate shall be appointed by the out-going magistrate, or, in the case of the original election, shall be the author of this proposal. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. End Proposal 310. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > I'm more than a little disappointed. Without a definition of election, the > filling of this position could drag on indefinately. And fix "The term of > the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior" in Paragraph 4, it's not > clear. & You didn't see the loophole. > > And to top it off, it looks like yahoo swallowed egroups. > --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:41 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good > order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group at > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. If for > any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any time > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from > office. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > > eGroups Sponsor > > Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain name below > and press GO! > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Jan 26 09:48:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 17:48:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 9606 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 17:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 17:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 17:47:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0QHlIa05266 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:47:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c087bf$f1b5ca20$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <000501c087be$c5351420$c6a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:46:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I changed my mind already. I'm not going to define elections for this position. It's both illegal and too tedious. > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good > order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group at > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. Election for the Chief Magistrate position shall take place when somebody else bothers to define them in another law. Then, elections shall take place immediately, to the great joy and excitment of all. > > If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a > short > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any time > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from > office. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > I'm more than a little disappointed. Without a definition of election, > the > > filling of this position could drag on indefinately. And fix "The term of > > the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior" in Paragraph 4, it's not > > clear. & You didn't see the loophole. > > > > And to top it off, it looks like yahoo swallowed egroups. > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:41 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > Proposal 310: > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose > of > > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > > from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good > > order within the regime. > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be > > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the > penalty > > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > > large. > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group > at > > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. If for > > any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a > short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until > the > > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the > death > > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > > upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any > time > > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous > > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from > > office. > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > > successful death penalty administered. > > > > End Proposal 310. > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > > Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain name below > > and press GO! > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Jan 26 10:09:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 18:09:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 74125 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 18:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 18:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 18:08:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14719 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:08:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:09:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000501c087be$c5351420$c6a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" No need to get snippy... We all got at least as much shit as this. I chose not to define elections, and let them be either defined independently, or picked specifically for the office. And BA's last proposal shows that you can propose a law, and package it with a definition. You cited 308 to define Federal Holidays yourself. My interest in this is only in making it a forceful rule. And I also feel that requiring the players to vote outside the Let it stay the way it is, if you want. And yes, that's the loophole. Requiring a unanimous vote for the removal of the officer is imposible. My problem with that sentence was that I simply didn't understand it. I still don't on its own. Taken as an introduction to the paragraph, it makes sense, but if you mean for life, say for life. I'm really for it. I swear. I'd vote for it as is. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 12:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > Hey, man. Satisfaction was never guaranteed. > > If election should have been defined anywhere, it should have been in YOUR > law. Now we're stuck with option of either office-specific > elections, or my > law doing two things - proposing the chief magistrate position > and defining > elections. And the latter is clearly illegal. > > As for the term of good behavior, I don't see how it is unclear. The > paragraph defines it. This is still up for discussion, and I was > hoping to > see what people thought of the overall law with the changes made. > > As for the loophole, why don't you either share it, or just wait > and try to > exploit it. It's quite possible that you are misreading the law and it > doesn't exist. I can see a couple if you twist the meaning of > the phrases, > but nothing if you follow careful interpretation. Finally, if > the loophole > is just that a majority vote can change/alter this law, then whatever. > > In all honesty, I'm ready to just let this thing die, take the point loss, > and go home. It's becoming too much like work. The demands are > in general > reasonable, but would require me to write a GODAMNED GOVERNMENT, not a > position. If you don't like the position as it is, remember that > it is ONLY > A PART. It will have a context that in many cases is STILL TO BE > DETERMINED. It will not be the whole government of > scatterbrains, nor will > it have primary responsible for doing much, it won't take out > your garbage, > sing to you at night, or make you iced tea. You will see how much the > definition of the election swells this proposal tremendously. > > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good > order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of > the penalty > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from > the group at > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon > election. Election > for the purposes > of this office shall take place as follows: a)the election process shall > begin immediately > upon passage of this law for the first magistrate, and hereafter, > immediately upon the circumstances > of the removal of the previous occupant b)this election shall be announced > by > either the outgoing magistrate, or by the author of the original > law. There > is NO > discretion in calling the election, but this is a formality that > will alert > all members of the > upcoming election. c) Candidates will declare themselves. d)a > poll shall be > created by the > person who announced the poll. e) the candidate with the most > votes will be > named the new > magistrate. f) if there is a tie, there will be a run-off vote > between the > highest scoring candidates. > g) in the event that the runoff vote does not produce a clear winner, or > that every player has > declared himself a candidate the magistrate shall be appointed by the > out-going magistrate, or, in > the case of the original election, shall be the author of this proposal. > > If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his > duties for a > short > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death > penalty, until the > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict > the death > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If > at any time > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from > office. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > I'm more than a little disappointed. Without a definition of election, > the > > filling of this position could drag on indefinately. And fix > "The term of > > the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior" in Paragraph 4, it's not > > clear. & You didn't see the loophole. > > > > And to top it off, it looks like yahoo swallowed egroups. > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:41 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > Proposal 310: > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose > of > > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate > shall have > > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of > death (removal > > from the game), according to the law, for the general > maintenance of good > > order within the regime. > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though > they may be > > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the > penalty > > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > > large. > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from > the group > at > > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon > election. If for > > any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a > short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until > the > > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the > death > > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be > prosecuted > > upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any > time > > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous > > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the > Magistrate from > > office. > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > smiting (a > > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > points for each > > successful death penalty administered. > > > > End Proposal 310. > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > > Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain > name below > > and press GO! > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Jan 26 10:14:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 18:14:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 87902 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 18:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 18:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 18:13:26 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA15208 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:13:25 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: The switch to Yahoo Groups... Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:14:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001201c087bf$f1b5ca20$c6a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Well Y's servers finally caught up, and now it's possible to see the site somewhat like it was. To use the new system, you'll need a Yahoo ID, which apparently only Fritz & I have, and "convert" your eGroups account. The process is relatively painless goto http://groups.yahoo.com/convwiz and answer the questions. --e From barturo@e... Fri Jan 26 13:29:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 21:29:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 57952 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 21:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 21:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 21:29:43 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA04934 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:25:04 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372B8@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:25:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Ranting and raving won't get you any where. I don't like a couple of things the most of all the fact that the CM can impose a death penalty at any time for any reason. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 1:10 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 No need to get snippy... We all got at least as much shit as this. I chose not to define elections, and let them be either defined independently, or picked specifically for the office. And BA's last proposal shows that you can propose a law, and package it with a definition. You cited 308 to define Federal Holidays yourself. My interest in this is only in making it a forceful rule. And I also feel that requiring the players to vote outside the Let it stay the way it is, if you want. And yes, that's the loophole. Requiring a unanimous vote for the removal of the officer is imposible. My problem with that sentence was that I simply didn't understand it. I still don't on its own. Taken as an introduction to the paragraph, it makes sense, but if you mean for life, say for life. I'm really for it. I swear. I'd vote for it as is. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 12:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > Hey, man. Satisfaction was never guaranteed. > > If election should have been defined anywhere, it should have been in YOUR > law. Now we're stuck with option of either office-specific > elections, or my > law doing two things - proposing the chief magistrate position > and defining > elections. And the latter is clearly illegal. > > As for the term of good behavior, I don't see how it is unclear. The > paragraph defines it. This is still up for discussion, and I was > hoping to > see what people thought of the overall law with the changes made. > > As for the loophole, why don't you either share it, or just wait > and try to > exploit it. It's quite possible that you are misreading the law and it > doesn't exist. I can see a couple if you twist the meaning of > the phrases, > but nothing if you follow careful interpretation. Finally, if > the loophole > is just that a majority vote can change/alter this law, then whatever. > > In all honesty, I'm ready to just let this thing die, take the point loss, > and go home. It's becoming too much like work. The demands are > in general > reasonable, but would require me to write a GODAMNED GOVERNMENT, not a > position. If you don't like the position as it is, remember that > it is ONLY > A PART. It will have a context that in many cases is STILL TO BE > DETERMINED. It will not be the whole government of > scatterbrains, nor will > it have primary responsible for doing much, it won't take out > your garbage, > sing to you at night, or make you iced tea. You will see how much the > definition of the election swells this proposal tremendously. > > Proposal 310: > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the > purpose of > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal > from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good > order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of > the penalty > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from > the group at > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon > election. Election > for the purposes > of this office shall take place as follows: a)the election process shall > begin immediately > upon passage of this law for the first magistrate, and hereafter, > immediately upon the circumstances > of the removal of the previous occupant b)this election shall be announced > by > either the outgoing magistrate, or by the author of the original > law. There > is NO > discretion in calling the election, but this is a formality that > will alert > all members of the > upcoming election. c) Candidates will declare themselves. d)a > poll shall be > created by the > person who announced the poll. e) the candidate with the most > votes will be > named the new > magistrate. f) if there is a tie, there will be a run-off vote > between the > highest scoring candidates. > g) in the event that the runoff vote does not produce a clear winner, or > that every player has > declared himself a candidate the magistrate shall be appointed by the > out-going magistrate, or, in > the case of the original election, shall be the author of this proposal. > > If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his > duties for a > short > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death > penalty, until the > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict > the death > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If > at any time > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from > office. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each > successful death penalty administered. > > End Proposal 310. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > I'm more than a little disappointed. Without a definition of election, > the > > filling of this position could drag on indefinately. And fix > "The term of > > the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior" in Paragraph 4, it's not > > clear. & You didn't see the loophole. > > > > And to top it off, it looks like yahoo swallowed egroups. > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:41 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > Proposal 310: > > > > An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose > of > > smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate > shall have > > the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of > death (removal > > from the game), according to the law, for the general > maintenance of good > > order within the regime. > > > > All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting > > those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for > > offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time > > limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though > they may be > > appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the > penalty > > or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately > > "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at > > large. > > > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from > the group > at > > large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon > election. If for > > any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a > short > > period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > > powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until > the > > Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the > death > > penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be > prosecuted > > upon the Magistrate's return. > > > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any > time > > the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous > > vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned > > death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the > Magistrate from > > office. > > > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful > smiting (a > > smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by > > judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) > points for each > > successful death penalty administered. > > > > End Proposal 310. > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > > Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain > name below > > and press GO! > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Fri Jan 26 14:41:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 26 Jan 2001 22:41:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 50695 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2001 22:41:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2001 22:41:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 23:42:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA11337 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:41:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:42:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372B8@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Ranting and raving won't get you any where. I don't like a couple > of things > the most of all the fact that the CM can impose a death penalty > at any time > for any reason. Since Pat's getting tired, I'll take this one... If the CM does impose a death penalty, it's immediately challenged by all the players, and put to a vote. If the group's not unanimous, not only does the penalty not take place, but the CM's dethroned. --e From bernardo@c... Sat Jan 27 06:54:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 27 Jan 2001 14:54:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 37307 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2001 14:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2001 14:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Jan 2001 14:54:24 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0REsIa10251 for ; Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:54:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c08870$ef88ab80$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:53:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" My apologies to the group. I didn't mean to sound off that way. Yesterday was just a very *bad* day. Sorry for the general crankiness of that reply. Yeah, Eug has got it right. This power is in no way arbitrary: the CM canNOT impose a death penalty at any time nor for any reason... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > Ranting and raving won't get you any where. I don't like a couple > > of things > > the most of all the fact that the CM can impose a death penalty > > at any time > > for any reason. > > Since Pat's getting tired, I'll take this one... If the CM does impose a > death penalty, it's immediately challenged by all the players, and put to a > vote. If the group's not unanimous, not only does the penalty not take > place, but the CM's dethroned. > --e > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 29 07:04:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 15:04:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 95338 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 15:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 15:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 15:03:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0TF3na18949 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:03:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c08a04$98bd02c0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <000901c08870$ef88ab80$c7a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:03:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining elections (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined relative to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to change the tenor of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with totally open and free elections. However, we discover that we want or need to restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say that newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around and change each and every single proposition that contained an election. If, rather, our proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another proposal, all that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the metaphor... If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote on it soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a chance to tell me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. p. From eventi@n... Mon Jan 29 08:11:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 16:11:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 86980 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 16:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 16:05:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 16:05:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA10126 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:05:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:06:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000a01c08a04$98bd02c0$c5a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" First of all: Go ahead and finalize. I think any discussion at this point is academic. C++ Reference: I guess you mean it's a "level of indirection" which is almost always good. You probably meant pointers, which are pretty language non-specific, but a good analogy none the less. The Office creating proposal refers to the election defining proposal. Either can change without the other being affected. I'm fine with not defining them here, and agree that they should be defined by a seperate proposal. I only intended to point out that it's a problem to not define it at all. We can always define it when it becomes necessary. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:03 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining elections > (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined relative > to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to > change the tenor > of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with totally > open and free elections. However, we discover that we want or need to > restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say that > newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around and change each > and every single proposition that contained an election. If, rather, our > proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another proposal, all > that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. > > Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the metaphor... > > If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote on it > soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a > chance to tell > me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. > > p. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Jan 29 09:03:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 17:03:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 6686 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 16:56:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 16:56:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 17:58:03 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0TGuvm28016 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:57 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7X00J18OEV4O@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:56:50 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C089EA.914A6BA0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" so far, we have not had any tainted votes or elections. we are few enough to be held accountable if we were to vote then renig on grounds that there is no definite election/voting procedure. it would be funny because if someone were to disrupt the group because of a lack of voting procedures, then a CM would be needed to reprimand that person. on the other hand the CM has no reason to reprimand due to no written law, thus the disobedient can continue. sorry for the tangent... since all our communications are written down to this point (ignoring the backroom dealings, if any), we can try and hold each other to our words. this should give us time to get an election procedure in writing. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:07 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 First of all: Go ahead and finalize. I think any discussion at this point is academic. C++ Reference: I guess you mean it's a "level of indirection" which is almost always good. You probably meant pointers, which are pretty language non-specific, but a good analogy none the less. The Office creating proposal refers to the election defining proposal. Either can change without the other being affected. I'm fine with not defining them here, and agree that they should be defined by a seperate proposal. I only intended to point out that it's a problem to not define it at all. We can always define it when it becomes necessary. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:03 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining elections > (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined relative > to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to > change the tenor > of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with totally > open and free elections. However, we discover that we want or need to > restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say that > newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around and change each > and every single proposition that contained an election. If, rather, our > proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another proposal, all > that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. > > Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the metaphor... > > If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote on it > soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a > chance to tell > me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. > > p. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Jan 29 09:46:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 17:46:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 37038 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 17:39:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 17:39:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 18:40:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA19546 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:38:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:40:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <01C089EA.914A6BA0.sga5892@n...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Agreed- But I think in principle, at least, Proposals should be written to have the greatest effect possible, and not to leave anything up to the good intentions of the players. Of course the line has to be drawn somewhere... > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:57 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > so far, we have not had any tainted votes or elections. we are > few enough > to be held accountable if we were to vote then renig on grounds > that there > is no definite election/voting procedure. > > it would be funny because if someone were to disrupt the group > because of a > lack of voting procedures, then a CM would be needed to reprimand that > person. on the other hand the CM has no reason to reprimand due to no > written law, thus the disobedient can continue. sorry for the tangent... > > since all our communications are written down to this point (ignoring the > backroom dealings, if any), we can try and hold each other to our words. > this should give us time to get an election procedure in writing. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:07 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > First of all: Go ahead and finalize. I think any discussion at this point > is academic. > > C++ Reference: I guess you mean it's a "level of indirection" which is > almost always good. You probably meant pointers, which are > pretty language > non-specific, but a good analogy none the less. The Office creating > proposal refers to the election defining proposal. Either can change > without the other being affected. > > I'm fine with not defining them here, and agree that they should > be defined > by a seperate proposal. I only intended to point out that it's a problem > to > not define it at all. We can always define it when it becomes necessary. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:03 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining elections > > (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined > relative > > to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to > > change the tenor > > of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with > totally > > open and free elections. However, we discover that we want or need to > > restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say that > > newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around and change > each > > and every single proposition that contained an election. If, > rather, our > > proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another > proposal, all > > that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. > > > > Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the metaphor... > > > > If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote on > it > > soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a > > chance to tell > > me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. > > > > p. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 29 12:11:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 20:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 48234 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 19:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 19:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 21:00:30 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0TJxNa47843 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:59:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c08a2d$e29bda00$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:58:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Yeah. But now you could write an election law with some teeth in it because you could empower the CM to enforce it and set a penalty for breaking the election law. Of course there is the paradox that Steven points out (what to do if someone cheats on the election installing the CM?), but we do have to start somewhere... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:40 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > Agreed- > But I think in principle, at least, Proposals should be written to have the > greatest effect possible, and not to leave anything up to the good > intentions of the players. Of course the line has to be drawn somewhere... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:57 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > so far, we have not had any tainted votes or elections. we are > > few enough > > to be held accountable if we were to vote then renig on grounds > > that there > > is no definite election/voting procedure. > > > > it would be funny because if someone were to disrupt the group > > because of a > > lack of voting procedures, then a CM would be needed to reprimand that > > person. on the other hand the CM has no reason to reprimand due to no > > written law, thus the disobedient can continue. sorry for the tangent... > > > > since all our communications are written down to this point (ignoring the > > backroom dealings, if any), we can try and hold each other to our words. > > this should give us time to get an election procedure in writing. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:07 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > First of all: Go ahead and finalize. I think any discussion at this point > > is academic. > > > > C++ Reference: I guess you mean it's a "level of indirection" which is > > almost always good. You probably meant pointers, which are > > pretty language > > non-specific, but a good analogy none the less. The Office creating > > proposal refers to the election defining proposal. Either can change > > without the other being affected. > > > > I'm fine with not defining them here, and agree that they should > > be defined > > by a seperate proposal. I only intended to point out that it's a problem > > to > > not define it at all. We can always define it when it becomes necessary. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:03 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > > I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining elections > > > (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined > > relative > > > to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to > > > change the tenor > > > of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with > > totally > > > open and free elections. However, we discover that we want or need to > > > restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say that > > > newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around and change > > each > > > and every single proposition that contained an election. If, > > rather, our > > > proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another > > proposal, all > > > that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. > > > > > > Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the metaphor... > > > > > > If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote on > > it > > > soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a > > > chance to tell > > > me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. > > > > > > p. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Jan 29 12:25:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 20:25:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 61192 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 20:17:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA06114 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:17:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001a01c08a2d$e29bda00$c2a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Agreed, get on with it ;) --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:59 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > Yeah. But now you could write an election law with some teeth in > it because > you could empower the CM to enforce it and set a penalty for breaking the > election law. Of course there is the paradox that Steven points out (what > to do if someone cheats on the election installing the CM?), but > we do have > to start somewhere... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 12:40 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > Agreed- > > But I think in principle, at least, Proposals should be written to have > the > > greatest effect possible, and not to leave anything up to the good > > intentions of the players. Of course the line has to be drawn > somewhere... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:57 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > > so far, we have not had any tainted votes or elections. we are > > > few enough > > > to be held accountable if we were to vote then renig on grounds > > > that there > > > is no definite election/voting procedure. > > > > > > it would be funny because if someone were to disrupt the group > > > because of a > > > lack of voting procedures, then a CM would be needed to reprimand that > > > person. on the other hand the CM has no reason to reprimand due to no > > > written law, thus the disobedient can continue. sorry for the > tangent... > > > > > > since all our communications are written down to this point (ignoring > the > > > backroom dealings, if any), we can try and hold each other to > our words. > > > this should give us time to get an election procedure in writing. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:07 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > First of all: Go ahead and finalize. I think any discussion at this > point > > > is academic. > > > > > > C++ Reference: I guess you mean it's a "level of indirection" which is > > > almost always good. You probably meant pointers, which are > > > pretty language > > > non-specific, but a good analogy none the less. The Office creating > > > proposal refers to the election defining proposal. Either can change > > > without the other being affected. > > > > > > I'm fine with not defining them here, and agree that they should > > > be defined > > > by a seperate proposal. I only intended to point out that it's a > problem > > > to > > > not define it at all. We can always define it when it becomes > necessary. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 310 > > > > > > > > > > > > I just wanted to reiterate my position regarding not defining > elections > > > > (it's not just that I'm being peevish). If elections are defined > > > relative > > > > to each and every position, it'll be much more difficult to > > > > change the tenor > > > > of the group overall. Let's say, for instance, that we begin with > > > totally > > > > open and free elections. However, we discover that we want > or need to > > > > restrict them in some way (for the sake of argument, let's just say > that > > > > newbies need to wait a week). Now, we'd have to go around > and change > > > each > > > > and every single proposition that contained an election. If, > > > rather, our > > > > proposals refer to "elections" which are defined by another > > > proposal, all > > > > that we have to do is change the "elections" prop. > > > > > > > > Eug and Bob - this is like how C++ operates, if you like the > metaphor... > > > > > > > > If nobody else has anything - pro or contra - I'd like to get a vote > on > > > it > > > > soon. But I don't want to do that before everyone has had a > > > > chance to tell > > > > me what they think is wrong, and I've gotten back on it. > > > > > > > > p. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Jan 29 14:47:46 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98868 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 22:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 22:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mo.egroups.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 22:31:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2001 22:31:06 -0000 Date: 29 Jan 2001 22:31:03 -0000 Message-ID: <980807463.5676.38555.fc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Proposal 310 Creation of Chief Magistrate. [See email for Final Form] o ->Sounds like a good idea o ->No way To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 29 14:50:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 22:50:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 39466 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 22:33:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 22:33:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 23:34:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0TMXLa52256 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:33:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002601c08a43$65d0d280$c9a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Final Form of Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:32:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08A19.7BA377E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08A19.7BA377E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A poll has been created for the purposes of voting on the following proposa= l. Due to the general dictatorial and world-domination oriented attitude o= f Yahoo!, I was unable to post the full text of the proposal on the poll. = This is the final form of the proposal, and the one that you are voting on. Hmm. I just voted, and it looks like either I goofed, or Yahoo! lies. My = guess is that it's the latter, those bastards. Ok, so this'll be a totally= open vote, I think. Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the=20 Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out=20 punishments). The Chief Magistrate=20 shall have the responsibility to assess=20 penalties up to the penalty of death=20 (removal from the game), according to=20 the law, for the general maintenance of=20 good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly=20 within 2 days of the offense(counting=20 those days as official which have been=20 specified by 308), except for offenses=20 which carry the penalty of death, which=20 shall have no time limitation. All=20 punishments less than death are final,=20 though they may be appealed by a call=20 to judgment (which may alter the=20 severity of the penalty or dismiss it=20 altogether). All death penalty cases=20 are immediately "appealed" in that they=20 must be supported unanimously by the=20 people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be=20 filled by election from the group at=20 large. The Magistrate shall take power=20 immediately upon election. Election for=20 the Chief Magistrate position shall=20 take place according to the accepted=20 form of election.=20=20 If for any reason the Chief Magistrate=20 is unable to fulfill his duties for a=20 short period of time, he may swear in a=20 Deputy. The Deputy will have all the=20 powers of the Magistrate, with the=20 exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power.=20=20 Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to=20 the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted=20 upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will=20 be for good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the=20 Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of=20 the Magistrate). In addition, an=20 overturned death penalty shall result in the=20 automatic removal of the Magistrate=20 from office. The Magistrate shall receive one (1)=20 point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful=20 if the sentence is altered by judgment,=20 but not if it has been dismissed), and=20 ten (10) points for each successful=20 death penalty administered. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08A19.7BA377E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A poll has been created for the purposes o= f voting=20 on the following proposal.  Due to the general dictatorial and=20 world-domination oriented attitude of Yahoo!, I was unable to post the full= text=20 of the proposal on the poll.  This is the final form of the proposal, = and=20 the one that you are voting on.
 
Hmm.  I just voted, and it looks like= either I=20 goofed, or Yahoo! lies.  My guess is that it's the latter, those=20 bastards.  Ok, so this'll be a totally open vote, I think.
 
 
Proposal 310:
An office shall be created, called the Chief=20 Magistrate, for the purpose
of smiting people (handing out=20
punishments).  The Chief Magistrate
shall have the responsibil= ity=20 to assess
penalties up to the penalty of death
(removal from the ga= me),=20 according to
the law, for the general maintenance of
good order wit= hin=20 the regime.
 
All smitings must be done publicly
wit= hin 2=20 days of the offense(counting
those days as official which have been=20
specified by 308), except for offenses
which carry the penalty of d= eath,=20 which
shall have no time limitation.  All
punishments less tha= n=20 death are final,
though they may be appealed by a call
to judgment= =20 (which may alter the
severity of the penalty or dismiss it=20
altogether).  All death penalty cases
are immediately "appeale= d" in=20 that they
must be supported unanimously by the
people at=20 large.
 
The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled=20 by election from the group at
large.  The Magistrate shall take po= wer=20
immediately upon election. Election for
the Chief Magistrate positi= on=20 shall
take place according to the accepted
form of election. = =20
 
If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is=20 unable to fulfill his duties for a
short period of time, he may swear i= n a=20
Deputy.  The Deputy will have all the
powers of the Magistrate= ,=20 with the
exception of the death penalty, until
the Magistrate return= s to=20 power. 
Although the Deputy may not inflict the
death penalty, = cases=20 may be referred to
the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted
upon the= =20 Magistrate's return.
 
The term of the Chief Magistrate will
= be for=20 good behavior.  If at any
time the people decide to remove the=20
Magistrate, they may do so with a
unanimous vote (excluding the vote= of=20
the Magistrate).  In addition, an
overturned
death penalty = shall=20 result in the
automatic removal of the Magistrate
from=20 office.
 
 The Magistrate shall receive one (1)= =20
point for each successful smiting (a
smiting is still considered=20 successful
if the sentence is altered by judgment,
but not if it ha= s=20 been dismissed), and
ten (10) points for each successful
death pena= lty=20 administered.
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C08A19.7BA377E0-- From bernardo@c... Mon Jan 29 14:52:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 29 Jan 2001 22:52:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 9307 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2001 22:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2001 22:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 29 Jan 2001 23:35:58 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0TMYoa52370 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:34:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003001c08a43$9ae33f80$c9a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:34:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01C08A19.B0C52720" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C08A19.B0C52720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just realized that I can see the results because I'm the one who created = the poll (the light's burning dimly tonight). So maybe I didn't goof, and = maybe Yahoo! didn't lie to me. At any rate, it's time to vote! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 To: scatterbrains@egroups.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: Final Form of Proposal 310 A poll has been created for the purposes of voting on the following propo= sal. Due to the general dictatorial and world-domination oriented attitude= of Yahoo!, I was unable to post the full text of the proposal on the poll.= This is the final form of the proposal, and the one that you are voting o= n. Hmm. I just voted, and it looks like either I goofed, or Yahoo! lies. M= y guess is that it's the latter, those bastards. Ok, so this'll be a total= ly open vote, I think. =20=20=20 Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the=20 Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out=20 punishments). The Chief Magistrate=20 shall have the responsibility to assess=20 penalties up to the penalty of death=20 (removal from the game), according to=20 the law, for the general maintenance of=20 good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly=20 within 2 days of the offense(counting=20 those days as official which have been=20 specified by 308), except for offenses=20 which carry the penalty of death, which=20 shall have no time limitation. All=20 punishments less than death are final,=20 though they may be appealed by a call=20 to judgment (which may alter the=20 severity of the penalty or dismiss it=20 altogether). All death penalty cases=20 are immediately "appealed" in that they=20 must be supported unanimously by the=20 people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be=20 filled by election from the group at=20 large. The Magistrate shall take power=20 immediately upon election. Election for=20 the Chief Magistrate position shall=20 take place according to the accepted=20 form of election.=20=20 If for any reason the Chief Magistrate=20 is unable to fulfill his duties for a=20 short period of time, he may swear in a=20 Deputy. The Deputy will have all the=20 powers of the Magistrate, with the=20 exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power.=20=20 Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to=20 the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted=20 upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will=20 be for good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the=20 Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of=20 the Magistrate). In addition, an=20 overturned death penalty shall result in the=20 automatic removal of the Magistrate=20 from office. The Magistrate shall receive one (1)=20 point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful=20 if the sentence is altered by judgment,=20 but not if it has been dismissed), and=20 ten (10) points for each successful=20 death penalty administered. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C08A19.B0C52720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just realized that I can see the results= because=20 I'm the one who created the poll (the light's burning dimly tonight). = So=20 maybe I didn't goof, and maybe Yahoo! didn't lie to me.
 
At any rate, it's time to vote!
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Pa= trick D.=20 Bernardo
To: scatterbrains@egroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:3= 2=20 PM
Subject: Final Form of Proposal 31= 0

A poll has been created for the purposes= of=20 voting on the following proposal.  Due to the general dictatorial an= d=20 world-domination oriented attitude of Yahoo!, I was unable to post the fu= ll=20 text of the proposal on the poll.  This is the final form of the=20 proposal, and the one that you are voting on.
 
Hmm.  I just voted, and it looks li= ke either=20 I goofed, or Yahoo! lies.  My guess is that it's the latter, those=20 bastards.  Ok, so this'll be a totally open vote, I think.
 
 
Proposal 310:
An office shall be created, called the <= BR>Chief=20 Magistrate, for the purpose
of smiting people (handing out=20
punishments).  The Chief Magistrate
shall have the responsib= ility=20 to assess
penalties up to the penalty of death
(removal from the= =20 game), according to
the law, for the general maintenance of
good = order=20 within the regime.
 
All smitings must be done publicly
w= ithin 2=20 days of the offense(counting
those days as official which have been=20
specified by 308), except for offenses
which carry the penalty of= =20 death, which
shall have no time limitation.  All
punishments= less=20 than death are final,
though they may be appealed by a call
to=20 judgment (which may alter the
severity of the penalty or dismiss it=20
altogether).  All death penalty cases
are immediately "appea= led"=20 in that they
must be supported unanimously by the
people at=20 large.
 
The office of Chief Magistrate shall be= =20
filled by election from the group at
large.  The Magistrate = shall=20 take power
immediately upon election. Election for
the Chief=20 Magistrate position shall
take place according to the accepted
fo= rm of=20 election. 
 
If for any reason the Chief Magistrate <= BR>is=20 unable to fulfill his duties for a
short period of time, he may swear= in a=20
Deputy.  The Deputy will have all the
powers of the Magistra= te,=20 with the
exception of the death penalty, until
the Magistrate retu= rns=20 to power. 
Although the Deputy may not inflict the
death pena= lty,=20 cases may be referred to
the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted
= upon=20 the Magistrate's return.
 
The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for=20 good behavior.  If at any
time the people decide to remove the=20
Magistrate, they may do so with a
unanimous vote (excluding the vo= te of=20
the Magistrate).  In addition, an
overturned
death penalt= y=20 shall result in the
automatic removal of the Magistrate
from=20 office.
 
 The Magistrate shall receive one (= 1)=20
point for each successful smiting (a
smiting is still considered=20 successful
if the sentence is altered by judgment,
but not if it = has=20 been dismissed), and
ten (10) points for each successful
death pe= nalty=20 administered.
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C08A19.B0C52720-- From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Jan 30 00:05:55 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 78134 invoked by uid 7800); 30 Jan 2001 08:05:54 -0000 Date: 30 Jan 2001 08:05:54 -0000 Message-ID: <980841954.173153459.89175.l10@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - Rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable). -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.) -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it. -- Immutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points. In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 207. Each player always has exactly one vote. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points. In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates. The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence. If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence. If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment. When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate. Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge. New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner. This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Initial ---- 301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number. -- Mutable -- Author: E Venti -- History: Proposal 301 ---- 304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game. B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction. C)Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains." D)This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members. E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill. -- Mutable -- Author: Pat Bernardo -- History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00) ---- 305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes. -- Mutable -- Author: P Suber -- History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00) ---- 306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order: 1) proposal of a rule 2)discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule 3) voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer 4) scoring. Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of postive votes to total possible votes. All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer. -- Mutable -- Author: Pat Bernardo -- History: Ammended 202 (1/4/01) ---- 307. Offices: Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal. The proposal must include: Responsibilities of the office The method of selection of officers Term of office, and method of succession The method of removal from office -- Mutable -- Author: Eugene Ventimiglia -- History: Proposal 307 ---- 308. Time Limit: There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. *The list of Federal Holidays are as follows: New Years Day Presidents Day Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Veterans Day Thanksgiving Day Christmas Day -- Mutable -- Author: Bob Arturo -- History: Proposal 308 ---- From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Jan 30 00:05:55 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 78141 invoked by uid 7800); 30 Jan 2001 08:05:55 -0000 Date: 30 Jan 2001 08:05:55 -0000 Message-ID: <980841955.173153613.89175.l10@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - nomic.html Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

101. All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

  • Immutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

201. Players shall alternate in clockwise order, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.

In mail and computer games, players shall alternate in alphabetical order by surname.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

203. A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

208. The winner is the first player to achieve 100 (positive) points.

In mail and computer games, the winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

210. Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates.

The first paragraph of this rule does not apply to games by mail or computer.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

212. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

213. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Initial

301. Each proposal shall be posted to the group with the subject consisting of the word "Proposal" followed by the proposal number.

  • Mutable
  • Author: E Venti
  • History: Proposal 301

304. A) Each player shall receive Points for the Introduction of a new player into the game.

B) The introducing Player shall receive 5 (five) points for an official Introduction.

C) Introduction shall be determined by an affidavit posted to the group, by the new player, within 1 (one) day of joining, with the subject header "Introduction" and text consisting of the following declaration: "[Player name] has introduced me to Scatterbrains."

D) This rule shall remain in effect until the game consists of 10 (ten) or more members.

E) For the purposes of further discussion, this rule may also be referred to as the "Be Fruitful and Multiply" Bill.

  • Mutable
  • Author: Pat Bernardo
  • History: Proposal 304 (12/18/00)

305. Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes.

  • Mutable
  • Author: P Suber
  • History: Transmuted from 105 by eventi (12/21/00)

306. One turn consists of four parts, in this order:

  1. proposal of a rule
  2. discussion and amendment phase, which begins immediately following the proposal, and which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule
  3. voting on the rule, which begins when the final form of the rule is declared by the proposer
  4. scoring.
Scoring shall be 15 points for each rule, multiplied by the fraction produced by the ratio of positive votes to total possible votes. All fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer.

  • Mutable
  • Author: Pat Bernardo
  • History: Amended 202 (1/4/01)

307. Offices:

Any formally defined role other than the ordinary player role, shall be referred to as an "Office." Offices are each to be created and defined by a proposal.

The proposal must include:

  1. Responsibilities of the office
  2. The method of selection of officers
  3. Term of office, and method of succession
  4. The method of removal from office

  • Mutable
  • Author: Eugene Ventimiglia
  • History: Proposal 307

308. Time Limit:

There will be a time limit of 5 business days, excluding federal holidays*, to submit a proposal. If a proposal is not submitted within 5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal there will be a "1 point a day" penalty enforced. Penalty points will be deducted from the players total points and can go below 0. If a player fails to submit a proposal within 25 business days that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement.

*The list of Federal Holidays are as follows:

  1. New Years Day
  2. Presidents Day
  3. Memorial Day
  4. Independence Day
  5. Labor Day
  6. Veterans Day
  7. Thanksgiving Day
  8. Christmas Day
  • Mutable
  • Author: Bob Arturo
  • History: Proposal 308

309. A new participant will gain the right to vote immediately upon sending an introduction affidavit, if all voting on final proposals is complete.

If voting on a final proposal is not complete upon sending an introduction affidavit, a new participant's right to vote will be withheld until all voting on final proposals is complete.

This new participant will enter the order of play upon casting his or her first vote.

  • Mutable
  • Author: Steven Arturo
  • History: Proposal 309

From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 30 06:29:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 30 Jan 2001 14:29:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 4213 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2001 14:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jan 2001 14:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 30 Jan 2001 15:29:41 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0UESZB13753 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:35 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7Z00GG7C7KUP@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:28:31 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08A9F.0388BD20.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" is this a poll or an open vote? don't we go in alphabetical order if it is an open vote? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:34 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 I just realized that I can see the results because I'm the one who created the poll (the light's burning dimly tonight). So maybe I didn't goof, and maybe Yahoo! didn't lie to me. At any rate, it's time to vote! ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: Final Form of Proposal 310 A poll has been created for the purposes of voting on the following proposal. Due to the general dictatorial and world-domination oriented attitude of Yahoo!, I was unable to post the full text of the proposal on the poll. This is the final form of the proposal, and the one that you are voting on. Hmm. I just voted, and it looks like either I goofed, or Yahoo! lies. My guess is that it's the latter, those bastards. Ok, so this'll be a totally open vote, I think. Proposal 310: An office shall be created, called the Chief Magistrate, for the purpose of smiting people (handing out punishments). The Chief Magistrate shall have the responsibility to assess penalties up to the penalty of death (removal from the game), according to the law, for the general maintenance of good order within the regime. All smitings must be done publicly within 2 days of the offense(counting those days as official which have been specified by 308), except for offenses which carry the penalty of death, which shall have no time limitation. All punishments less than death are final, though they may be appealed by a call to judgment (which may alter the severity of the penalty or dismiss it altogether). All death penalty cases are immediately "appealed" in that they must be supported unanimously by the people at large. The office of Chief Magistrate shall be filled by election from the group at large. The Magistrate shall take power immediately upon election. Election for the Chief Magistrate position shall take place according to the accepted form of election. If for any reason the Chief Magistrate is unable to fulfill his duties for a short period of time, he may swear in a Deputy. The Deputy will have all the powers of the Magistrate, with the exception of the death penalty, until the Magistrate returns to power. Although the Deputy may not inflict the death penalty, cases may be referred to the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted upon the Magistrate's return. The term of the Chief Magistrate will be for good behavior. If at any time the people decide to remove the Magistrate, they may do so with a unanimous vote (excluding the vote of the Magistrate). In addition, an overturned death penalty shall result in the automatic removal of the Magistrate from office. The Magistrate shall receive one (1) point for each successful smiting (a smiting is still considered successful if the sentence is altered by judgment, but not if it has been dismissed), and ten (10) points for each successful death penalty administered. << File: ATT00001.htm >> From bernardo@c... Tue Jan 30 06:37:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 30 Jan 2001 14:37:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 24877 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2001 14:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Jan 2001 14:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Jan 2001 14:36:09 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0UEa6a06063 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:36:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c08ac9$e4089080$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08A9F.0388BD20.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:35:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Steve - 201 applies only to turn order. There are no conventions regarding voting. Vote in any order that you like. This is just like the other proposals. A vote using the polling feature. (You shouldn't be able to see the preliminary results - can you? I may have screwed up in creating the poll). ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:28 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 > is this a poll or an open vote? don't we go in alphabetical order if it is > an open vote? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:34 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 310 > > I just realized that I can see the results because I'm the one who created > the poll (the light's burning dimly tonight). So maybe I didn't goof, and > maybe Yahoo! didn't lie to me. > > At any rate, it's time to vote! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > To: scatterbrains@egroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 5:32 PM > Subject: Final Form of Proposal 310 > > > A poll has been created for the purposes of voting on the following > proposal. Due to the general dictatorial and world-domination oriented > attitude of Yahoo!, I was unable to post the full text of the proposal on > the poll. This is the final form of the proposal, and the one that you are > voting on. > > Hmm. I just voted, and it looks like either I goofed, or Yahoo! lies. > My guess is that it's the latter, those bastards. Ok, so this'll be a > totally open vote, I think. > > > Proposal 310: > An office shall be created, called the > Chief Magistrate, for the purpose > of smiting people (handing out > punishments). The Chief Magistrate > shall have the responsibility to assess > penalties up to the penalty of death > (removal from the game), according to > the law, for the general maintenance of > good order within the regime. > > All smitings must be done publicly > within 2 days of the offense(counting > those days as official which have been > specified by 308), except for offenses > which carry the penalty of death, which > shall have no time limitation. All > punishments less than death are final, > though they may be appealed by a call > to judgment (which may alter the > severity of the penalty or dismiss it > altogether). All death penalty cases > are immediately "appealed" in that they > must be supported unanimously by the > people at large. > > The office of Chief Magistrate shall be > filled by election from the group at > large. The Magistrate shall take power > immediately upon election. Election for > the Chief Magistrate position shall > take place according to the accepted > form of election. > > If for any reason the Chief Magistrate > is unable to fulfill his duties for a > short period of time, he may swear in a > Deputy. The Deputy will have all the > powers of the Magistrate, with the > exception of the death penalty, until > the Magistrate returns to power. > Although the Deputy may not inflict the > death penalty, cases may be referred to > the Magistrate, which may be prosecuted > upon the Magistrate's return. > > The term of the Chief Magistrate will > be for good behavior. If at any > time the people decide to remove the > Magistrate, they may do so with a > unanimous vote (excluding the vote of > the Magistrate). In addition, an > overturned > death penalty shall result in the > automatic removal of the Magistrate > from office. > > The Magistrate shall receive one (1) > point for each successful smiting (a > smiting is still considered successful > if the sentence is altered by judgment, > but not if it has been dismissed), and > ten (10) points for each successful > death penalty administered. > > << File: ATT00001.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Tue Jan 30 06:50:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 30 Jan 2001 14:50:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 63239 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2001 14:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2001 14:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Jan 2001 14:48:53 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0UFhnm11739 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:43:49 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id JAA01586; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:48:53 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Final Form of Proposal 310 In-Reply-To: a5892 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1286@w...> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:48:53 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Where'd you get that alpha order thing... There are no rules defining the mechanics of voting. And Pat's opened a poll. From sga5892@n... Tue Jan 30 07:04:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 30 Jan 2001 15:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 10122 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2001 15:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2001 15:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 30 Jan 2001 15:01:46 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0UF1if14455 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:01:44 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7Z00GNODQUUT@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:01:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:01:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 310 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08AA3.A5AC2AC0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" my bad... i must have grouped voting in abc order with the turns in abc order. i would have liked to take advantage of having to vote last on this proposal if an open vote were conducted... oh well steve0 -----Original Message----- From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 310 Where'd you get that alpha order thing... There are no rules defining the mechanics of voting. And Pat's opened a poll. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 31 04:40:50 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 50885 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 12:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 12:40:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 12:40:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2001 12:40:49 -0000 Date: 31 Jan 2001 12:40:46 -0000 Message-ID: <980944846.339.82251.fc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal 310 Creation of Chief Magistrate. [See email for Final Form] CHOICES AND RESULTS - ->Sounds like a good idea, 2 votes, 40.00% - ->No way, 3 votes, 60.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - ->Sounds like a good idea - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - ->No way - barturo@e... - sga5892@n... - f_hemker@h... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 04:42:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 12:42:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 40597 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 12:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 12:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 12:42:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VCgKa69519 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:42:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c08b83$29f25d60$baa811d0@computer> To: Subject: History has been made! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:41:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08B59.3FCCA3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08B59.3FCCA3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well folks,=20 Y'all defeated the first proposal. The poll results should be out soon. (= Supposedly Yahoo! will do this automatically.) If not, I'll resend them ma= nually. But the upshot is that the CM law was defeated. I will now embark on a campaign of lawlessness and terror. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08B59.3FCCA3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well folks,
 
Y'all defeated the first proposal.  T= he poll=20 results should be out soon.  (Supposedly Yahoo! will do this=20 automatically.)  If not, I'll resend them manually.  But the upsh= ot is=20 that the CM law was defeated.
 
I will now embark on a campaign of lawless= ness and=20 terror.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C08B59.3FCCA3E0-- From eventi@w... Wed Jan 31 05:15:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 13:15:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7680 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 13:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 13:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 13:14:06 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f0VE90m16418 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:09:00 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id IAA12057; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:14:05 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! In-Reply-To: 8b8329f X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1293@w...> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:14:05 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... When you're off storming the castle, remember who your friends are... You have to 'close' the poll before the results are posted. And it might be a little delayed. -e From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 05:29:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 13:29:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 32367 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 13:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 13:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 13:24:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VDOqa72549 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:24:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c08b89$1adc4ec0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1293@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:24:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Join me, Luke, and together we will bring order to the universe! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:14 AM Subject: re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > When you're off storming the castle, remember who your friends are... > > You have to 'close' the poll before the results are posted. And it might be a little delayed. > -e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Jan 31 06:45:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 14:45:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 84762 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 14:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 14:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 14:28:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2001 14:28:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:28:08 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: History has been made! Message-ID: <9597do+jea9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <001801c08b89$1adc4ec0$baa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 658 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... So, is it my turn yet? --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Join me, Luke, and together we will bring order to the universe! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:14 AM > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > > > > When you're off storming the castle, remember who your friends are... > > > > You have to 'close' the poll before the results are posted. And it might > be a little delayed. > > -e > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 07:02:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 15:02:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 75597 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 14:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 14:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 15:43:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02072 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:42:44 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 310 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:44:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01C08AA3.A5AC2AC0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Hence the use of blind polls... I think the dynamic of the game would be a little different if we were to vote that way. Might be interresting, but it'll be voted down. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:02 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 310 > > > my bad... i must have grouped voting in abc order with the turns in abc > order. i would have liked to take advantage of having to vote > last on this > proposal if an open vote were conducted... > > oh well > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: eventi@w... [SMTP:eventi@w...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:49 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 310 > > Where'd you get that alpha order thing... There are no rules defining the > mechanics of voting. And Pat's opened a poll. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 07:11:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 15:11:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 50696 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 14:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 14:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 14:49:04 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02669 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:03 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: History has been made! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:50:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <9597do+jea9@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Yes! > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:28 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: History has been made! > > > So, is it my turn yet? > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Join me, Luke, and together we will bring order to the universe! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:14 AM > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > > > > > > > When you're off storming the castle, remember who your friends > are... > > > > > > You have to 'close' the poll before the results are posted. And > it might > > be a little delayed. > > > -e > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 07:13:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 15:13:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 95868 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 14:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 14:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 14:50:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VEoba80468 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:50:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c08b95$15b5d540$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <9597do+jea9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: History has been made! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:49:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Yup. Fire away. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:28 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: History has been made! > So, is it my turn yet? > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Join me, Luke, and together we will bring order to the universe! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:14 AM > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > > > > > > > When you're off storming the castle, remember who your friends > are... > > > > > > You have to 'close' the poll before the results are posted. And > it might > > be a little delayed. > > > -e > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 31 07:17:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 15:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 94554 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 14:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 14:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 14:47:32 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0VElV413050 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:47:31 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8100HIO7R4PO@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:47:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:47:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:47:20 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] History has been made! To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08B6A.CE745AA0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" it was either this or your usurping of the CM position and hanging everyone by their nipples. have it your way -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:42 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] History has been made! Well folks, Y'all defeated the first proposal. The poll results should be out soon. (Supposedly Yahoo! will do this automatically.) If not, I'll resend them manually. But the upshot is that the CM law was defeated. I will now embark on a campaign of lawlessness and terror. << File: ATT00003.htm >> From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 31 07:55:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 15:55:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 55845 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 15:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 15:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 15:18:47 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0VFIk415426 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:18:46 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8100J8L977F3@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:18:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:18:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:18:34 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] History has been made! To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08B6F.2BC5FC00.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" it was either this or your usurping of the CM position and hanging everyone by their nipples. have it your way -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:42 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] History has been made! Well folks, Y'all defeated the first proposal. The poll results should be out soon. (Supposedly Yahoo! will do this automatically.) If not, I'll resend them manually. But the upshot is that the CM law was defeated. I will now embark on a campaign of lawlessness and terror. << File: ATT00003.htm >> From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 08:33:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 16:33:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 72650 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 15:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 15:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 15:58:46 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VFwia86973 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:58:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c08b9e$9a1d9ee0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08B6F.2BC5FC00.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] History has been made! Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:58:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Shit, I wasn't even going to run... (In fact, I goofed. I was planning on offering my support to one of you hippies in return for a positive vote on the prop.) But now I get to be Darth Vader. Gotta go teach now... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > it was either this or your usurping of the CM position and hanging everyone > by their nipples. > > have it your way > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:42 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] History has been made! > > Well folks, > > Y'all defeated the first proposal. The poll results should be out soon. > (Supposedly Yahoo! will do this automatically.) If not, I'll resend them > manually. But the upshot is that the CM law was defeated. > > I will now embark on a campaign of lawlessness and terror. > > << File: ATT00003.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Jan 31 11:10:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Frederick_Hemker@m... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 19:09:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 48301 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 18:24:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 18:24:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsims1.senate.gov) (199.95.76.9) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 19:25:34 -0000 Received: from IMAEXC2.senate.gov (mailexch.senate.gov) by mailsims1.senate.gov (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.07.30.00.05.p8) with ESMTP id <0G8100ENDHP173@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by IMAEXC2.senate.gov (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 000043A4; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:18:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:11:59 -0500 Subject: Proposal 311 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <000043A4.C22124@m...> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: cc:Mail note part Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: Frederick_Hemker@m... (Frederick Hemker) From: f_hemker@h... Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At no point may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of the parties to the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No party to the transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 12:54:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 20:54:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 85977 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 20:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 20:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 21:27:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08269 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:26:30 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:28:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000043A4.C22124@m...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it should be that way, but that's how I read it. Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of future proposals.... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > their own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > no point may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > effective exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > follow the > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > the parties to > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > party to the > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 12:58:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 20:58:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 17957 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 20:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 20:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 20:32:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VKWma15091 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:32:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c08bc4$e26080c0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: <000043A4.C22124@m...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:32:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" And you guys thought MY law would be change things. I LOVE this! It was, of course, legal to do this before, but this both codifies and encourages the procedure. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At no point may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of the parties to > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No party to the > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Jan 31 14:21:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14337 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 22:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 22:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 22:06:31 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.113] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2001 21:24:40 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:24:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 311 Message-ID: <959vqi+h593@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2004 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer without someone explicitly complaining. --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it should be > that way, but that's how I read it. > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of future > proposals.... > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > their own score to > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > no point may a > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > transfers shall be > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > statements shall > > have the following form: > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > > recipient]." > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > effective exactly 24 > > hours after their public statement. > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > follow the > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > the parties to > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > Judge shall take > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > party to the > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Wed Jan 31 14:32:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 22:32:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 65027 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 22:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 22:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 22:17:02 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0VMH0417466 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:17:00 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G810077HSK9CZ@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:16:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:16:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08BA9.95830720.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" ooohhh, an economy. i like... -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [SMTP:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At no point may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of the parties to the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No party to the transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 14:46:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 22:46:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 82780 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 22:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 22:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 22:30:38 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-22.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.207]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f0VMUaa53430 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:30:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c08bd5$57404aa0$cfa811d0@computer> To: References: <959vqi+h593@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:29:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the proposal. Let me put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for being able to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely transfers" these points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to the proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper form in the transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the case, then we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly believed my proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the government. I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would prohibit someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of dispute. The law should explicitly allow for it. Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I give Eug 1 million billion points? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > without someone explicitly complaining. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > should be > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > future > > proposals.... > > > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > their own score to > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > > no point may a > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > transfers shall be > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > statements shall > > > have the following form: > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > [name of > > > recipient]." > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > effective exactly 24 > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > > follow the > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > 212, shall > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > the parties to > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > Judge shall take > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > party to the > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 15:21:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 23:21:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 53554 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 23:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 23:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 23:16:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA05593 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:16:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <959vqi+h593@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This goes back to the problem all you short-sited people had with the CM thing... I don't think you should expand the powers of the Judge. He's in place to resolve disputes. I'm in a rush to get home, so I'll type more later...... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:25 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > without someone explicitly complaining. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > should be > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > future > > proposals.... > > > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > their own score to > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > > no point may a > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > transfers shall be > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > statements shall > > > have the following form: > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > [name of > > > recipient]." > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > effective exactly 24 > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > > follow the > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > 212, shall > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > the parties to > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > Judge shall take > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > party to the > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 15:23:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 31 Jan 2001 23:23:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 57349 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2001 23:20:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2001 23:20:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 31 Jan 2001 23:20:37 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA05874 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:20:36 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:22:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000a01c08bd5$57404aa0$cfa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what the exchange is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. That's why I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing it. Part 4 requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't expand the powers of the judge. I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you guys have started earlier?!? --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > proposal. Let me > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for being able > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > transfers" these > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to the > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper > form in the > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the case, then > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly > believed my > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the > government. > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would prohibit > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > dispute. The law > should explicitly allow for it. > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I give > Eug 1 million billion points? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > > should be > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > > future > > > proposals.... > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > > their own score to > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > > > no point may a > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > > transfers shall be > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > > statements shall > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > > [name of > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > > > follow the > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > > 212, shall > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > > the parties to > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > > Judge shall take > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > > party to the > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 16:25:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 00:25:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 60031 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 00:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 00:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 00:25:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-04.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.214]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f110PKa63905 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:25:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c08be5$5ee966a0$d6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:24:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Right, so why bother with the law at all? It doesn't do anything but deny people from having access to the law. Secondly, contract law is historically an important part of government. You need a neutral arbiter to be able to step in - when called for - to resolve conflicts. Otherwise, it's as good as not having a government. We might as well be in the state of nature. I'm just not that optimistic about the good will of people. I agree that an activist judge would be a bad idea - but why limit the scope so severely? Contracts would of course still exist, but you need to have some kind of recourse to the law. Look at it this way - if you pay $100 to SST for punk rock records, and they blow you off, imagine trying to sue and having the judge tell you that the only thing that he was empowered to do is inspect whether or not you wrote your check correctly. That's *precisely* the way this law would tie the hands of the judge. This would suck. I would never contract with anybody - on either side, if this were the case. This law would in fact make contracts and an economy LESS likely, because you could never trust anyone, or have any option if you were screwed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:22 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what the exchange > is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. That's why > I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing it. Part 4 > requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't expand the > powers of the judge. > > I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you guys have started > earlier?!? > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > > proposal. Let me > > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for being able > > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > > transfers" these > > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to the > > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. > > > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper > > form in the > > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the case, then > > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly > > believed my > > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the > > government. > > > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would prohibit > > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > > dispute. The law > > should explicitly allow for it. > > > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I give > > Eug 1 million billion points? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > > > should be > > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > > > future > > > > proposals.... > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > > > their own score to > > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > > > > no point may a > > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > > > transfers shall be > > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > > > statements shall > > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > > > [name of > > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > > > > follow the > > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > > > 212, shall > > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > > > the parties to > > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > > > Judge shall take > > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > > > party to the > > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Jan 31 17:08:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 01:08:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 70454 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 01:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 01:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 01:08:56 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1118sa67541 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:08:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c08beb$743b6980$bca811d0@computer> To: Subject: Call to Judgement Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:08:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08BC1.8A15B000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08BC1.8A15B000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the= Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law)= I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. Here's my beef: I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody end= owed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the points = should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such a power= . Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you wil= l agree. Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not = been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that score= -keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I will gl= adly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank you ve= ry much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you temporarily end= ow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the subtraction = from my score. Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will= only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have = much wider implications. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08BC1.8A15B000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
 
I'm invoking a call to judgement.  Si= nce Fritz=20 is moving, that makes me the Judge.  In the interests of fairness (sin= ce=20 this is not prohibited by law) I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the ne= xt in=20 line) to take my place.
 
Here's my beef:
 
I'm disputing the subtraction of points fr= om my=20 score.  There is nobody endowed with the requisite power.  Accord= ing=20 to the laws, although the points should come off, there is nobody at the=20 beginning endowed with such a power.  Since I know that you guys don't= like=20 arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you will agree.
 
Before you decide too quickly, Steven, con= sider=20 this:
 
Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the ter= ms of his=20 own law*, that has not been legally created by a proposal.  You must t= hen=20 either affirm that score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone.  If= you=20 do the former, I will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the acco= unt=20 myself, thank you very much!  If you do the latter, I would appreciate= that=20 you temporarily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remo= ve=20 the subtraction from my score.
 
Currently, I'm not disputing the addition = of=20 points, so this judgement will only affect the subtraction of points, as I = see=20 it, although it does have much wider implications.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08BC1.8A15B000-- From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 20:57:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 04:57:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 80627 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 04:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 04:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 04:57:44 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA22848 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:57:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008801c08c0b$7e1e0780$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <001501c08be5$5ee966a0$d6a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:57:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm starting to see Fritz's (and oddly, your) reasoning to this... I'd be comfortable with either or both party in a points transfer *requesting* a disinterrested party to oversee that both sides of the implied contract are met, but what I'm not OK with is an arbitrary player policing a transfer. It leaves too much room for human interferance, and destroys any possibility of secrecy. If I offer Bob 10 points to vote for my proposal, and Fritz is vehemently opposed to vote selling, he's the chosen judge, so he could deem the purchase illegal, and Bob wouldn't get paid. If OTOH, I ask Pat to arbitrate, he'll make sure Bob votes and I pay. Again, this assumes no trust between players. I'd _prefer_ a sort of escrow service. I transfer money to Pat, Bob votes, Pat transfers to Bob. That's too complicated, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > Right, so why bother with the law at all? It doesn't do anything but deny > people from having access to the law. Secondly, contract law is > historically an important part of government. You need a neutral arbiter to > be able to step in - when called for - to resolve conflicts. Otherwise, > it's as good as not having a government. We might as well be in the state > of nature. > > I'm just not that optimistic about the good will of people. I agree that an > activist judge would be a bad idea - but why limit the scope so severely? > Contracts would of course still exist, but you need to have some kind of > recourse to the law. > > Look at it this way - if you pay $100 to SST for punk rock records, and they > blow you off, imagine trying to sue and having the judge tell you that the > only thing that he was empowered to do is inspect whether or not you wrote > your check correctly. That's *precisely* the way this law would tie the > hands of the judge. This would suck. I would never contract with anybody - > on either side, if this were the case. This law would in fact make > contracts and an economy LESS likely, because you could never trust anyone, > or have any option if you were screwed. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:22 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what the exchange > > is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. That's why > > I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing it. Part 4 > > requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't expand the > > powers of the judge. > > > > I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you guys have > started > > earlier?!? > > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > > > proposal. Let me > > > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > > > > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for being > able > > > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > > > transfers" these > > > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to the > > > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. > > > > > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper > > > form in the > > > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the case, > then > > > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly > > > believed my > > > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the > > > government. > > > > > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would > prohibit > > > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > > > dispute. The law > > > should explicitly allow for it. > > > > > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I > give > > > Eug 1 million billion points? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > > > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > > > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > > > > should be > > > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > > > > future > > > > > proposals.... > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > > > > their own score to > > > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. At > > > > > > no point may a > > > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > > > > transfers shall be > > > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > > > > statements shall > > > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > > > > [name of > > > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > > > > > follow the > > > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > > > > 212, shall > > > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > > > > the parties to > > > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > > > > Judge shall take > > > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > > > > party to the > > > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Jan 31 21:14:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 05:14:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 1231 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 05:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 05:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 06:15:26 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA24153 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009001c08c0d$d0e7f5a0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <000c01c08beb$743b6980$bca811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:13:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm way to tired to go into this. Do I get a chance to defend myself? Actually, it's not technically against me, by your reasoning... I'm "Acting EVERYTHING". Get used to it. It's not entirely by choice. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement Hi all, I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law) I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. Here's my beef: I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you will agree. Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you temporarily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the subtraction from my score. Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have much wider implications. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 01 04:32:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 12:32:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 88285 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 12:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:32:01 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f11CVxa15659 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 07:31:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501c08c4a$e13e5100$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <000c01c08beb$743b6980$bca811d0@computer> <009001c08c0d$d0e7f5a0$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 07:31:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm not sure why you need to defend yourself. As you point out, I'm not suing you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > I'm way to tired to go into this. Do I get a chance to defend myself? > Actually, it's not technically against me, by your reasoning... I'm "Acting > EVERYTHING". Get used to it. It's not entirely by choice. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > Hi all, > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law) > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > Here's my beef: > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such a > power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you > will agree. > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you > temporarily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove > the subtraction from my score. > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > much wider implications. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 01 04:32:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 12:32:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 90807 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 12:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:34:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f11CWra15678 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 07:32:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004001c08c4b$017d5240$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <001501c08be5$5ee966a0$d6a811d0@computer> <008801c08c0b$7e1e0780$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 07:32:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, then I think that we agree, Eug. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > I'm starting to see Fritz's (and oddly, your) reasoning to this... I'd be > comfortable with either or both party in a points transfer *requesting* a > disinterrested party to oversee that both sides of the implied contract are > met, but what I'm not OK with is an arbitrary player policing a transfer. > It leaves too much room for human interferance, and destroys any possibility > of secrecy. If I offer Bob 10 points to vote for my proposal, and Fritz is > vehemently opposed to vote selling, he's the chosen judge, so he could deem > the purchase illegal, and Bob wouldn't get paid. If OTOH, I ask Pat to > arbitrate, he'll make sure Bob votes and I pay. Again, this assumes no > trust between players. I'd _prefer_ a sort of escrow service. I transfer > money to Pat, Bob votes, Pat transfers to Bob. That's too complicated, > though. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > Right, so why bother with the law at all? It doesn't do anything but deny > > people from having access to the law. Secondly, contract law is > > historically an important part of government. You need a neutral arbiter > to > > be able to step in - when called for - to resolve conflicts. Otherwise, > > it's as good as not having a government. We might as well be in the state > > of nature. > > > > I'm just not that optimistic about the good will of people. I agree that > an > > activist judge would be a bad idea - but why limit the scope so severely? > > Contracts would of course still exist, but you need to have some kind of > > recourse to the law. > > > > Look at it this way - if you pay $100 to SST for punk rock records, and > they > > blow you off, imagine trying to sue and having the judge tell you that the > > only thing that he was empowered to do is inspect whether or not you wrote > > your check correctly. That's *precisely* the way this law would tie the > > hands of the judge. This would suck. I would never contract with > anybody - > > on either side, if this were the case. This law would in fact make > > contracts and an economy LESS likely, because you could never trust > anyone, > > or have any option if you were screwed. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:22 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what the > exchange > > > is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. That's > why > > > I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing it. Part 4 > > > requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't expand > the > > > powers of the judge. > > > > > > I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you guys have > > started > > > earlier?!? > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > > > > proposal. Let me > > > > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > > > > > > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for being > > able > > > > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > > > > transfers" these > > > > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to the > > > > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. > > > > > > > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper > > > > form in the > > > > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the case, > > then > > > > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly > > > > believed my > > > > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the > > > > government. > > > > > > > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would > > prohibit > > > > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > > > > dispute. The law > > > > should explicitly allow for it. > > > > > > > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I > > give > > > > Eug 1 million billion points? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > > > > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a transfer > > > > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > > > > > should be > > > > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list of > > > > > future > > > > > > proposals.... > > > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > > > > > their own score to > > > > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. > At > > > > > > > no point may a > > > > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > > > > > transfers shall be > > > > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > > > > > statements shall > > > > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to > > > > > [name of > > > > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do > not > > > > > > > follow the > > > > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in rule > > > > > 212, shall > > > > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one of > > > > > > > the parties to > > > > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > > > > > Judge shall take > > > > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > > > > > party to the > > > > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 01 07:11:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 15:11:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 21069 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 15:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 15:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 15:08:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2001 15:08:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:08:44 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Call to Judgement Message-ID: <95bu5s+ccmq@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000c01c08beb$743b6980$bca811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2404 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. or, If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of the actions occuring during your turn. Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules say that he should. Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law) I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > Here's my beef: > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you will agree. > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you temporarily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the subtraction from my score. > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does h From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 01 07:13:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 15:13:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 28390 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 15:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 15:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 15:11:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.117] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Feb 2001 15:11:55 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:11:52 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 311 Message-ID: <95bubo+g6d8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <004001c08c4b$017d5240$c2a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 9348 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Well, if you believe that there is a need to protect and inforce contracts this might be the opportunity to begin drawing up your proposal. I don't think that every law has to be perfect in and of itself. As long as my proposal isn't destructive to game play you could just assume that it creates more opportunities for fine tuning in the future. Anyway, there's nothing to stop you from pointing out the hypocrisy of a business partner in a very public way. I'm sure that would bring a chill to their future dealings. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Actually, then I think that we agree, Eug. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:57 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > I'm starting to see Fritz's (and oddly, your) reasoning to this... I'd be > > comfortable with either or both party in a points transfer *requesting* a > > disinterrested party to oversee that both sides of the implied contract > are > > met, but what I'm not OK with is an arbitrary player policing a transfer. > > It leaves too much room for human interferance, and destroys any > possibility > > of secrecy. If I offer Bob 10 points to vote for my proposal, and Fritz > is > > vehemently opposed to vote selling, he's the chosen judge, so he could > deem > > the purchase illegal, and Bob wouldn't get paid. If OTOH, I ask Pat to > > arbitrate, he'll make sure Bob votes and I pay. Again, this assumes no > > trust between players. I'd _prefer_ a sort of escrow service. I transfer > > money to Pat, Bob votes, Pat transfers to Bob. That's too complicated, > > though. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > Right, so why bother with the law at all? It doesn't do anything but > deny > > > people from having access to the law. Secondly, contract law is > > > historically an important part of government. You need a neutral > arbiter > > to > > > be able to step in - when called for - to resolve conflicts. Otherwise, > > > it's as good as not having a government. We might as well be in the > state > > > of nature. > > > > > > I'm just not that optimistic about the good will of people. I agree > that > > an > > > activist judge would be a bad idea - but why limit the scope so > severely? > > > Contracts would of course still exist, but you need to have some kind of > > > recourse to the law. > > > > > > Look at it this way - if you pay $100 to SST for punk rock records, and > > they > > > blow you off, imagine trying to sue and having the judge tell you that > the > > > only thing that he was empowered to do is inspect whether or not you > wrote > > > your check correctly. That's *precisely* the way this law would tie the > > > hands of the judge. This would suck. I would never contract with > > anybody - > > > on either side, if this were the case. This law would in fact make > > > contracts and an economy LESS likely, because you could never trust > > anyone, > > > or have any option if you were screwed. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:22 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what the > > exchange > > > > is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. That's > > why > > > > I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing it. Part > 4 > > > > requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't expand > > the > > > > powers of the judge. > > > > > > > > I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you guys have > > > started > > > > earlier?!? > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > > > > > proposal. Let me > > > > > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > > > > > > > > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return for > being > > > able > > > > > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > > > > > transfers" these > > > > > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately opposed to > the > > > > > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes contra. > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the proper > > > > > form in the > > > > > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed the > case, > > > then > > > > > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys mistakenly > > > > > believed my > > > > > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power from the > > > > > government. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that would > > > prohibit > > > > > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > > > > > dispute. The law > > > > > should explicitly allow for it. > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation - can I > > > give > > > > > Eug 1 million billion points? > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a dispute." > > > > > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a > transfer > > > > > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't think it > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off my list > of > > > > > > future > > > > > > > proposals.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > > > > > > > > their own score to > > > > > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. > > At > > > > > > > > no point may a > > > > > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > > > > > > > > transfers shall be > > > > > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > > > > > > > statements shall > > > > > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points > to > > > > > > [name of > > > > > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > > > > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do > > not > > > > > > > > follow the > > > > > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as determined in > rule > > > > > > 212, shall > > > > > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge is one > of > > > > > > > > the parties to > > > > > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the previous > > > > > > > > Judge shall take > > > > > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. No > > > > > > > > party to the > > > > > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the > transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an ema From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 01 07:37:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 15:37:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 62405 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 15:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 15:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 15:32:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-04.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.189]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f11FWGa30133 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:32:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c08c64$11586d80$bda811d0@computer> To: References: <95bu5s+ccmq@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to Judgement. > or, > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of > the actions occuring during your turn. > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when the offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at anytime. Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts for exactly one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then SA will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically allows for infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is overruled, to EV, etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, but it's still a possibility. > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules > say that he should. > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand me. I'm not asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends upon the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn sure that there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person will be elected from the group. I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just want a ruling on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the horizon of the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. (I've spaced the proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is the judge. ;) From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 01 07:42:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 15:42:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 12621 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 15:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 15:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 15:39:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-04.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.189]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f11Fd7a30788 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:39:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c08c65$06b848e0$bda811d0@computer> To: References: <95bubo+g6d8@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:38:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Fritz, I'll be the first to support your contention that laws don't have to be perfect in and of themselves! :) However, I'm not sure that this is a case of asking for over-refinement. BTW - my prop wasn't "destructive to game play" either. It's just that people didn't like what they thought the game would look like post-CM. I'm simply asking (and I think Eug is too) that you don't prevent the Judge from being able to act in a contract dispute. Since contracts are already possible, the only thing that this law does is *take away the right to sue*. The anarchic solution of letting people call each other bad names is no solution at all. If I violate a contract with Steven, and there is no recourse to the Judge, it's just his word against mine. He'll loudly complain that I violated the contract, and I'll loudly complain that I fulfilled the contract, and that Steven is trying to screw me after the fact. Both of us will get covered in mud, and there will be no reasonable settlement of the issue. Justice requires the intervention of a third. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > Well, if you believe that there is a need to protect and inforce > contracts this might be the opportunity to begin drawing up your > proposal. I don't think that every law has to be perfect in and of > itself. As long as my proposal isn't destructive to game play you > could just assume that it creates more opportunities for fine tuning > in the future. > > Anyway, there's nothing to stop you from pointing out the hypocrisy of > a business partner in a very public way. I'm sure that would bring a > chill to their future dealings. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Actually, then I think that we agree, Eug. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:57 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > I'm starting to see Fritz's (and oddly, your) reasoning to this... > I'd be > > > comfortable with either or both party in a points transfer > *requesting* a > > > disinterrested party to oversee that both sides of the implied > contract > > are > > > met, but what I'm not OK with is an arbitrary player policing a > transfer. > > > It leaves too much room for human interferance, and destroys any > > possibility > > > of secrecy. If I offer Bob 10 points to vote for my proposal, and > Fritz > > is > > > vehemently opposed to vote selling, he's the chosen judge, so he > could > > deem > > > the purchase illegal, and Bob wouldn't get paid. If OTOH, I ask > Pat to > > > arbitrate, he'll make sure Bob votes and I pay. Again, this > assumes no > > > trust between players. I'd _prefer_ a sort of escrow service. I > transfer > > > money to Pat, Bob votes, Pat transfers to Bob. That's too > complicated, > > > though. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:24 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > Right, so why bother with the law at all? It doesn't do > anything but > > deny > > > > people from having access to the law. Secondly, contract law is > > > > historically an important part of government. You need a > neutral > > arbiter > > > to > > > > be able to step in - when called for - to resolve conflicts. > Otherwise, > > > > it's as good as not having a government. We might as well be in > the > > state > > > > of nature. > > > > > > > > I'm just not that optimistic about the good will of people. I > agree > > that > > > an > > > > activist judge would be a bad idea - but why limit the scope so > > severely? > > > > Contracts would of course still exist, but you need to have some > kind of > > > > recourse to the law. > > > > > > > > Look at it this way - if you pay $100 to SST for punk rock > records, and > > > they > > > > blow you off, imagine trying to sue and having the judge tell > you that > > the > > > > only thing that he was empowered to do is inspect whether or not > you > > wrote > > > > your check correctly. That's *precisely* the way this law would > tie the > > > > hands of the judge. This would suck. I would never contract > with > > > anybody - > > > > on either side, if this were the case. This law would in fact > make > > > > contracts and an economy LESS likely, because you could never > trust > > > anyone, > > > > or have any option if you were screwed. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:22 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > The proposition doesn't require either party to disclose what > the > > > exchange > > > > > is for. This leaves open all kindsa fun stuff like contracts. > That's > > > why > > > > > I'm for limiting the judges power in part 4, not increasing > it. Part > > 4 > > > > > requires an interrested judge to recuse himself, but shouldn't > expand > > > the > > > > > powers of the judge. > > > > > > > > > > I'm really trying to get on the subway... Why couldn't you > guys have > > > > started > > > > > earlier?!? > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, come to think of it, I've gone a bit cold on the > > > > > > proposal. Let me > > > > > > put to you this hypothetical, and see how you respond: > > > > > > > > > > > > Eugene contracts with Bob to give Bob 100 points, in return > for > > being > > > > able > > > > > > to direct Bob's vote on the next two proposals. He "freely > > > > > > transfers" these > > > > > > points, and then, on the next prop, Bob is passionately > opposed to > > the > > > > > > proposition, while Eugene is for it. Bob reneges, and votes > contra. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that as written, since Eugene followed the > proper > > > > > > form in the > > > > > > transfer, he has no recourse to the law. If this is indeed > the > > case, > > > > then > > > > > > we are making the opposite mistake from what you guys > mistakenly > > > > > > believed my > > > > > > proposal was doing. This would prohibit far too much power > from the > > > > > > government. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anybody here would be in favor of a law that > would > > > > prohibit > > > > > > someone from having recourse to the Judge in this kind of > > > > > > dispute. The law > > > > > > should explicitly allow for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, you need to deal with the negative point situation > - can I > > > > give > > > > > > Eug 1 million billion points? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:24 PM > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should probably write something like "in the case of a > dispute." > > > > > > > But I also want the Judge to be able to step in and stop a > > transfer > > > > > > > without someone explicitly complaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Is the Judge required to approve each transfer? I don't > think it > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > > that way, but that's how I read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, a resounding YES!!! This gets scratched off > my list > > of > > > > > > > future > > > > > > > > proposals.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:12 AM > > > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer > points from > > > > > > > > > their own score to > > > > > > > > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever > reason. > > > At > > > > > > > > > no point may a > > > > > > > > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. > All point > > > > > > > > > transfers shall be > > > > > > > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point > transfer > > > > > > > > > statements shall > > > > > > > > > have the following form: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > > > > > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N > points > > to > > > > > > > [name of > > > > > > > > > recipient]." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They > are > > > > > > > > > effective exactly 24 > > > > > > > > > hours after their public statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if > they do > > > not > > > > > > > > > follow the > > > > > > > > > proscribed procedure. The current Judge, as > determined in > > rule > > > > > > > 212, shall > > > > > > > > > determine the legality of any transfer. If that Judge > is one > > of > > > > > > > > > the parties to > > > > > > > > > the current transfer he shall recuse himself and the > previous > > > > > > > > > Judge shall take > > > > > > > > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule > 212. No > > > > > > > > > party to the > > > > > > > > > transfer shall be allowed to judge the legality of the > > transfer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an ema > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Thu Feb 01 12:27:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 20:27:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 77148 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 20:18:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 20:18:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 20:18:39 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f11KIbM08671 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:18:37 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G83005QCHQZUV@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:18:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:18:04 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08C62.2D104AE0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" so much for taking a day or two off to read... from what i understand, pat's turn has not finished by 306. there hasn't been a scoring of the turn, by anyone. after i reread pat's and fritz' arguments, among any others that come up, i, designated as judge for this dispute, shall pass judgement, and hopefully a procedure through future situations like this. i cannot recognize proposal 311 and the discussion that has followed, since the change of turns has not transpired. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:32 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to Judgement. > or, > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of > the actions occuring during your turn. > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when the offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at anytime. Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts for exactly one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then SA will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically allows for infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is overruled, to EV, etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, but it's still a possibility. > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules > say that he should. > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand me. I'm not asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends upon the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn sure that there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person will be elected from the group. I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just want a ruling on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the horizon of the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. (I've spaced the proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is the judge. ;) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Thu Feb 01 13:43:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 21:43:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7364 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 21:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 21:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 21:29:30 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA06889 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:29:30 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01C08C62.2D104AE0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Very interresting! If Pat's assertion is true, then there has been no scoring, and it's still his turn. If Pat's claim is false, it's Fritz's turn. If, OTOH, you meant that I didn't record the score, I did. They're in the Score database, linked off of the webpage. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:18 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > so much for taking a day or two off to read... > > from what i understand, pat's turn has not finished by 306. there hasn't > been a scoring of the turn, by anyone. > > after i reread pat's and fritz' arguments, among any others that come up, > i, designated as judge for this dispute, shall pass judgement, and > hopefully a procedure through future situations like this. > > i cannot recognize proposal 311 and the discussion that has > followed, since > the change of turns has not transpired. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:32 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > > > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to Judgement. > > > or, > > > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as > > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of > > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of > > the actions occuring during your turn. > > > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when the > offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at anytime. > Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the > actions and > contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts > for exactly > one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then SA > will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > > > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > > > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically allows for > infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is > overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is > overruled, to EV, > etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, but > it's still a possibility. > > > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't > > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules > > say that he should. > > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > > > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand me. I'm not > asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am > disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no > automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends upon > the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the > procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn sure that > there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person will > be > elected from the group. > > I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just > want a ruling > on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the > horizon of > the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. (I've spaced > the > proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) > > At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is the judge. ;) > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Thu Feb 01 15:57:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 1 Feb 2001 23:57:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 72683 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 23:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Feb 2001 23:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 23:50:38 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f11NobM26021 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:50:37 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8300D2HRKA39@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:50:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:49:59 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08C7F.C7A52CC0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" ok, you did score it. then it is Fritz' turn. if we do not hear Pat's call to judgement now, we will hear it when his turn begins. his grievance will have grown from one score to everyone's score. The latter will be a disruption to our young regime. how nice would the second paragraph of 212 be if it were amended to say something like: When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin (the next portion of) his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players. i would like to hear out Pat now, rather than later. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:31 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement Very interresting! If Pat's assertion is true, then there has been no scoring, and it's still his turn. If Pat's claim is false, it's Fritz's turn. If, OTOH, you meant that I didn't record the score, I did. They're in the Score database, linked off of the webpage. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:18 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > so much for taking a day or two off to read... > > from what i understand, pat's turn has not finished by 306. there hasn't > been a scoring of the turn, by anyone. > > after i reread pat's and fritz' arguments, among any others that come up, > i, designated as judge for this dispute, shall pass judgement, and > hopefully a procedure through future situations like this. > > i cannot recognize proposal 311 and the discussion that has > followed, since > the change of turns has not transpired. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:32 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > > > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to Judgement. > > > or, > > > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as > > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of > > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of > > the actions occuring during your turn. > > > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when the > offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at anytime. > Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the > actions and > contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts > for exactly > one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then SA > will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > > > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > > > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically allows for > infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is > overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is > overruled, to EV, > etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, but > it's still a possibility. > > > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't > > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules > > say that he should. > > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > > > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand me. I'm not > asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am > disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no > automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends upon > the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the > procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn sure that > there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person will > be > elected from the group. > > I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just > want a ruling > on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the > horizon of > the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. (I've spaced > the > proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) > > At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is the judge. ;) > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 01 19:52:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 03:52:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 64976 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 03:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 03:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 03:52:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f123qFa98155 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:52:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c08ccb$716b96e0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08C7F.C7A52CC0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:51:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Ok. As far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to stand on my argument from the call to judgement. And I don't particularly mind if you take a couple of days off to read. I'd figure out something to do with my time.:) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > ok, you did score it. then it is Fritz' turn. > > if we do not hear Pat's call to judgement now, we will hear it when his > turn begins. his grievance will have grown from one score to everyone's > score. The latter will be a disruption to our young regime. > > how nice would the second paragraph of 212 be if it were amended to say > something like: > When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin (the next > portion of) his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other > players. > > i would like to hear out Pat now, rather than later. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > Very interresting! If Pat's assertion is true, then there has been no > scoring, and it's still his turn. If Pat's claim is false, it's Fritz's > turn. > > If, OTOH, you meant that I didn't record the score, I did. They're in the > Score database, linked off of the webpage. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:18 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > > > so much for taking a day or two off to read... > > > > from what i understand, pat's turn has not finished by 306. there hasn't > > been a scoring of the turn, by anyone. > > > > after i reread pat's and fritz' arguments, among any others that come up, > > i, designated as judge for this dispute, shall pass judgement, and > > hopefully a procedure through future situations like this. > > > > i cannot recognize proposal 311 and the discussion that has > > followed, since > > the change of turns has not transpired. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:32 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > > > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > > > > > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to Judgement. > > > > > or, > > > > > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > > > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > > > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > > > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open to you as > > > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and contents of > > > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is the judge of > > > the actions occuring during your turn. > > > > > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when the > > offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at anytime. > > Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the > > actions and > > contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts > > for exactly > > one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then SA > > will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > > > > > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically allows for > > infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is > > overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is > > overruled, to EV, > > etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, but > > it's still a possibility. > > > > > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > > > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The soldiers don't > > > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > > > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > > > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when the rules > > > say that he should. > > > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > > > > > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand me. I'm not > > asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am > > disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no > > automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends > upon > > the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the > > procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn sure that > > there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person will > > be > > elected from the group. > > > > I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just > > want a ruling > > on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the > > horizon of > > the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. (I've spaced > > the > > proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) > > > > At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is the judge. > ;) > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 02 07:10:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 15:10:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 98683 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 15:09:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 15:09:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 15:09:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05829 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:09:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:11:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001301c08ccb$716b96e0$c9a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" But Fritz's turn should go on. He's got a great proposal, and we don't want to take the wind from his sails. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:52 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > Ok. As far as I'm concerned, I'm willing to stand on my argument from the > call to judgement. > > And I don't particularly mind if you take a couple of days off to > read. I'd > figure out something to do with my time.:) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 6:49 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > ok, you did score it. then it is Fritz' turn. > > > > if we do not hear Pat's call to judgement now, we will hear it when his > > turn begins. his grievance will have grown from one score to everyone's > > score. The latter will be a disruption to our young regime. > > > > how nice would the second paragraph of 212 be if it were amended to say > > something like: > > When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin (the next > > portion of) his or her turn without the consent of a majority > of the other > > players. > > > > i would like to hear out Pat now, rather than later. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 4:31 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > Very interresting! If Pat's assertion is true, then there has been no > > scoring, and it's still his turn. If Pat's claim is false, it's Fritz's > > turn. > > > > If, OTOH, you meant that I didn't record the score, I did. > They're in the > > Score database, linked off of the webpage. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:18 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > > > > > > so much for taking a day or two off to read... > > > > > > from what i understand, pat's turn has not finished by 306. there > hasn't > > > been a scoring of the turn, by anyone. > > > > > > after i reread pat's and fritz' arguments, among any others that come > up, > > > i, designated as judge for this dispute, shall pass judgement, and > > > hopefully a procedure through future situations like this. > > > > > > i cannot recognize proposal 311 and the discussion that has > > > followed, since > > > the change of turns has not transpired. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 10:32 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Call to Judgement > > > > > > > According to Rule 306 a turn only consists of four parts. Invoking > > > > judgement doesn't seem to be one of those parts. > > > > > > > This reading would prevent anyone from ever making a call to > Judgement. > > > > > > > or, > > > > > > > > If you don't allow that the point have come off your score, even > > > > without the intervention of an agent, you are violating the > > > > fundamental spirit of the regieme. Since the scoring you disputed > > > > took place last turn I'm not sure that its legality is open > to you as > > > > judge. A judge can only pass judgment on the actions and > contents of > > > > the current turn. Whomever's turn it was before yours is > the judge of > > > > the actions occuring during your turn. > > > > > > > This isn't exactly right. First of all, the law doesn't specify when > the > > > offense has occured, as written you could appeal anything and at > anytime. > > > Secondly, it's not that the judge can only pass judgment on the > > > actions and > > > contents of the current turn, but that the judge's tenure lasts > > > for exactly > > > one turn. If there is another call to judgment during your turn, then > SA > > > will remain the judge, unless he is overruled. > > > > > > > Right? Unless we allow for infinite regression of judgement. > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the law specifically > allows for > > > infinite regression in this sense: suppose SA rules poorly, and is > > > overturned. The judiciary would pass to BA, and if he is > > > overruled, to EV, > > > etc. ad infinitum. This possibility is more theoretical than actual, > but > > > it's still a possibility. > > > > > > > Then again, where do you get the idea that we need an agent to take > > > > the points off. It seems almost automatic to me. The > soldiers don't > > > > have to come rushing onto the floor of the Senate to enforce every > > > > rule of palimentary procedure. While the parlimentarian cannot > > > > physically make a Senator stop talking, he does anyway when > the rules > > > > say that he should. > > > > Are you willing to introduce this spirit into the game? > > > > > > > In all honesty, I'm not a stormtrooper: don't misunderstand > me. I'm not > > > asking for soldiers to come rushing into anywhere, really. But I am > > > disputing the possibility of it being "automatic" because it is no > > > automatic. Somebody's got to do it. Parliamentary procedure depends > > upon > > > the actions of all the members, as a group. If someone violates the > > > procedure and is going to be punished for it, you can be damn > sure that > > > there is somebody who's going to do that punishing - and that person > will > > > be > > > elected from the group. > > > > > > I'm taking issue with the ambiguity of our situation. I just > > > want a ruling > > > on it that will legally define it, and bring the matter into the > > > horizon of > > > the game. My loss of points is just a reason for the suit. > (I've spaced > > > the > > > proper legal term here, but you get my drift.) > > > > > > At any rate, this conversation is somewhat moot, since SA is > the judge. > > ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 02 11:52:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Frederick_Hemker@m... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 19:52:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 14750 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 19:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 19:43:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsims2.senate.gov) (198.78.181.133) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 19:43:07 -0000 Received: from imaexc3.senate.gov (mail1.senate.gov) by mailsims2.senate.gov (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.07.30.00.05.p8) with ESMTP id <0G850062LB5Y2V@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imaexc3.senate.gov (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 00005996; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:34:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:02:45 -0500 Subject: Proposal 311 (Draft #2) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <00005996.C22181@m...> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: cc:Mail note part Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: Frederick_Hemker@m... (Frederick Hemker) From: f_hemker@h... Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. End Proposal 311 Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing contracts and what constitutes fraud... -Fritz From eventi@n... Fri Feb 02 12:06:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:06:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 18497 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 19:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 19:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 19:55:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA04734 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:55:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:57:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00005996.C22181@m...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" PERFECT!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:03 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from > their own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In > no case may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > effective exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. Players may explain the > reasons behind > their transfer of points but are not required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation > of fraud the > current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the > legality of any > transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of > the immediate > parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving > points) he shall be > relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. > > > End Proposal 311 > > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > -Fritz > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 02 12:07:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:07:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 63692 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 19:58:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 19:58:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 19:58:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-15.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.200]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f12Jwia74004 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:58:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c08d52$6e3cffe0$c8a811d0@computer> To: References: <00005996.C22181@m...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:57:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > contracts and what constitutes fraud... That might be good, but I'm happy with the law as amended. It doesn't empower the Judge too much, nor does it prevent him from settling issues of fraud. From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 02 12:35:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 39855 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.104] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:26:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Message-ID: <95f55q+68du@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000d01c08d52$6e3cffe0$c8a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 457 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Shall we vote? If no one else has any major objections or amendments I can set up the poll. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > That might be good, but I'm happy with the law as amended. It doesn't > empower the Judge too much, nor does it prevent him from settling issues of > fr From barturo@e... Fri Feb 02 12:38:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:38:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10350 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:26:13 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07671 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:26:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:21:20 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372CE@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:21:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain From: "Arturo, Bob" I don't know it all sounds shady to me. I don't like pay-o-la. Maybe because I never get any. Pay-O-la that is. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:03 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. End Proposal 311 Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing contracts and what constitutes fraud... -Fritz To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Fri Feb 02 12:44:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:44:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 78081 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:37:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08684 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:37:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:38:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <95f55q+68du@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I was going to suggest that, a majority's happy, so why not. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > Shall we vote? > > If no one else has any major objections or amendments I can set up the > poll. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule > governing > > > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > > > That might be good, but I'm happy with the law as amended. It > doesn't > > empower the Judge too much, nor does it prevent him from settling > issues of > > fr > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 02 12:48:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 20:48:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 38725 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:39:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08920 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:39:52 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:41:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372CE@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'll buy you a beer if you SHUT UP.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:21 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > I don't know it all sounds shady to me. I don't like pay-o-la. > Maybe because > I never get any. Pay-O-la that is. > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:03 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own > score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case > may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers > shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > effective exactly > 24 > hours after their public statement. Players may explain the > reasons behind > their transfer of points but are not required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud > the > current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of > any > transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the > immediate > parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving > points) he shall > be > relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. > > > End Proposal 311 > > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > -Fritz > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 02 13:00:50 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26845 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:53:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.104] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2001 20:53:54 -0000 Date: 2 Feb 2001 20:53:53 -0000 Message-ID: <981147233.1594.57895.e8@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the scatterbrains group: Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure fo o Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. o No, this sucked. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 02 13:03:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 21:03:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 94875 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 20:55:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 20:55:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 20:55:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.104] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2001 20:55:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:55:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Final Form of Proposal 311 Message-ID: <95f6s6+vb7s@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1308 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Go to the poll and cast your vote! Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. End From barturo@e... Fri Feb 02 13:11:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 2 Feb 2001 21:11:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 21800 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 21:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2001 21:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 22:06:17 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA11478 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:05:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:00:20 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372CF@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:00:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain From: "Arturo, Bob" NOW! That's what I'm talking about ;) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:41 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) I'll buy you a beer if you SHUT UP.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:21 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > I don't know it all sounds shady to me. I don't like pay-o-la. > Maybe because > I never get any. Pay-O-la that is. > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:03 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own > score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case > may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers > shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > effective exactly > 24 > hours after their public statement. Players may explain the > reasons behind > their transfer of points but are not required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud > the > current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of > any > transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the > immediate > parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving > points) he shall > be > relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. > > > End Proposal 311 > > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > -Fritz > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@w... Fri Feb 02 20:19:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 3 Feb 2001 04:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 26603 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 04:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2001 04:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 04:19:51 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f135Ebm31502 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:14:37 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id XAA02461; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:19:49 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Pat's Noodling Message-Id: <15308871.1310@w...> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:19:49 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 03 09:03:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 3 Feb 2001 17:03:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4765 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 17:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2001 17:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 18:04:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f13H3Qp11777 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:03:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c08e03$22025c40$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1310@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Pat's Noodling Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:02:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, at the time you wrote this, the appropriate phrase would've been "Pat's Drinking". ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:19 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Pat's Noodling > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 03 10:06:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 3 Feb 2001 18:06:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 47877 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 18:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2001 18:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 18:06:27 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f13I6Pp16068 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:06:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006401c08e0b$ee74f280$c5a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Groovy! Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:05:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0061_01C08DE2.044F3900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C08DE2.044F3900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all! I just saw the new Nomic.html file and it looks great! Check it = out! Very stylish. Great job Eug.(You must have been bored) One suggestiong - how about coloring the header background of the mutable r= ules a different color than the immutable ones. Would make for easier dist= inction between the two. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C08DE2.044F3900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey all!  I just saw the new Nomic.ht= ml file=20 and it looks great!  Check it out!  Very stylish. Great job Eug.(= You=20 must have been bored)
 
One suggestiong - how about coloring the h= eader=20 background of the mutable rules a different color than the immutable ones.&= nbsp;=20 Would make for easier distinction between the two.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C08DE2.044F3900-- From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 03 10:13:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 3 Feb 2001 18:13:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28336 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 18:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2001 18:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 19:14:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f13IDLp16401 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:13:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006a01c08e0c$e6a504e0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <95f6s6+vb7s@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 311 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:12:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Here's one: If we all vote, then by 212, we'd have to vote again to let Eug's turn begin. If we do, then Steven's jurisdiction ends and Fritz's begins (at least in the sense that he would be the new Judge). I can see a couple of possible interpretations of the law that would follow: A) It works like a "pocket veto" in the sense that Steven gets kicked out of office, and then my case effectively ends. I could call for judgement again under the new justice, but I'd have to reinitiate the process. B) There is simply a transition of the case from Steven to the new Judge (Fritz). No reapplication is needed, and Fritz can rule immediately on the Judgement. (This looks illegal by the last paragraph, but the wording there is somewhat imprecise). C) Steven can decide (again according to 212) what he wants to do. He is explicitly allowed to settle questions concerning his own jurisdiction and legitimacy. Frankly, I'm not going to vote until Steven rules, because all of this is too confusing, and 212 definitely needs to be re-written. Besides, I don't like my chances if there is a change of venue. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Final Form of Proposal 311 > Go to the poll and cast your vote! > > Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their > own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no > case may a > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point > transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements > shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name > of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective > exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons > behind > their transfer of points but are not required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of > fraud the > current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality > of any > transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the > immediate > parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he > shall be > relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. > > > End > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Sat Feb 03 10:21:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 3 Feb 2001 18:21:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 58786 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 18:21:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2001 18:21:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 18:21:31 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA12719 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:21:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c08e0e$1de35d20$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <006401c08e0b$ee74f280$c5a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Groovy! Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 13:20:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C08DE4.22D024A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C08DE4.22D024A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll think about it... It's generated from a massive XML source, so it may = have to be re-structured a bit. And I wasn't bored, It's proof of concept = for another (bigger) idea. Check the links section for the latest, and htt= p://www.scatterbrains.com/nomic.xml for the XML source. And if you're feel= ing courageous, check out nomic-xml.r, which generates rules.html & archive= .html (& soon proposals.html) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Groovy! Hey all! I just saw the new Nomic.html file and it looks great! Check i= t out! Very stylish. Great job Eug.(You must have been bored) One suggestiong - how about coloring the header background of the mutable= rules a different color than the immutable ones. Would make for easier di= stinction between the two. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www. .com=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C08DE4.22D024A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll think about it... It's generated from a massive XM= L=20 source, so it may have to be re-structured a bit.  And I wasn't bored,= It's=20 proof of concept for another (bigger) idea.  Check the links section f= or=20 the latest, and http://www.scatterbrains.co= m/nomic.xml=20 for the XML source.  And if you're feeling courageous, check out=20 nomic-xml.r, which generates rules.html & archive.html (& soon=20 proposals.html)
 
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 Pa= trick D.=20 Bernardo
To: scatterbrains@y...= om=20
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 = 1:05=20 PM
Subject: [scatterbrains] Groovy!

Hey all!  I just saw the new Nomic.= html file=20 and it looks great!  Check it out!  Very stylish. Great job Eug= .(You=20 must have been bored)
 
One suggestiong - how about coloring the= header=20 background of the mutable rules a different color than the immutable=20 ones.  Would make for easier distinction between the two.
 
 


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C08DE4.22D024A0-- From bernardo@c... Sun Feb 04 08:32:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 4 Feb 2001 16:32:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 42317 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 16:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Feb 2001 16:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 16:32:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f14GWVp02450 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:32:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c08ec7$fab86b00$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:31:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey now, this sounds like bribery to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > I'll buy you a beer if you SHUT UP.... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:21 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > > > > I don't know it all sounds shady to me. I don't like pay-o-la. > > Maybe because > > I never get any. Pay-O-la that is. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:03 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 311 (Draft #2) > > > > > > Proposal 311 > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own > > score to > > the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case > > may a > > player's score fall below zero using this method. > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers > > shall be > > numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer > > statements shall > > have the following form: > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of > > recipient]." > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are > > effective exactly > > 24 > > hours after their public statement. Players may explain the > > reasons behind > > their transfer of points but are not required to. > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not > > follow the > > proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud > > the > > current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of > > any > > transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the > > immediate > > parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving > > points) he shall > > be > > relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take > > responsibility, following the procedure found in rule 212. > > > > > > End Proposal 311 > > > > > > Of course, it would be helpful if someone came up with a rule governing > > contracts and what constitutes fraud... > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 04 16:17:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 00:17:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 70622 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 00:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 00:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 01:18:51 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:34:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 4 Feb 01 18:27:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 4 Feb 01 18:26:58 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:26:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: introduction Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002101c08ec7$fab86b00$c4a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <028864234000521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Was my introduction received? I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no one has confirmed or acknowledged. if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with other content to the message If so, Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains if not, let me know and I'll try again. I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such confirmation From bernardo@c... Sun Feb 04 16:34:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 00:34:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 21080 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 00:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 00:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 01:35:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f150Yhp36620 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:34:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c08f0b$56ea9400$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <028864234000521ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] introduction Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:34:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Ah, this one got through! Welcome, Paul. I was wondering if you were going to arrive. You can't vote on Prop 311, because of 309 - a measure I strenuously opposed - but you can certainly voice your opinion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > Was my introduction received? > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > other content to the message > > If so, > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > confirmation > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Sun Feb 04 19:25:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 03:25:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 10355 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 03:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 03:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 03:25:35 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f153PXM24519 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 22:25:33 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G890019DLIKY9@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 22:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:25:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:25:37 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] introduction To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08EF9.66D04520.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" hello paul -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [SMTP:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction Was my introduction received? I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no one has confirmed or acknowledged. if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with other content to the message If so, Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains if not, let me know and I'll try again. I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such confirmation To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@w... Mon Feb 05 05:25:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 13:25:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 34678 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 13:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:25:07 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f15EJmm08722 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 06:19:49 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id IAA23294; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:25:06 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Steven's jurisdiction. Message-Id: <15308871.1316@w...> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 05:25:06 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... I disagree with Pat that Steven's jurisdiction over this matter ends if the majority votes to continue play before it's resolved. Paragraph 4 of 212 could be read that way, but I read it differently. "Until the next turn is begun" refers to the time at which questions arise; it does not remove a judge from an open question when the play continues. Welcome Paul. From barturo@e... Mon Feb 05 05:41:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 13:41:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 73616 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 13:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:42:05 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29954 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:40:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D3@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] introduction Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:35:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C08F78.932C37D0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F78.932C37D0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Paul -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction Was my introduction received? I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no one has confirmed or acknowledged. if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with other content to the message If so, Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains if not, let me know and I'll try again. I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such confirmation Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F78.932C37D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello=20 Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001= 7:27=20 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] introduction

Was my introduction= =20 received? 

I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I= =20 signed up, but no
one has confirmed or acknowledged. 

if= not,=20 is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with
other cont= ent=20 to the message

If so,

Patrick Bernardo has introduced me t= o=20 Scatterbrains

if not, let me know and I'll try again. 
I = will=20 withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such=20
confirmation




To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C08F78.932C37D0-- From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 05 05:42:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 13:42:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 48898 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 13:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:42:06 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.101] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 13:42:05 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:42:03 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <95majb+uinr@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <028864234000521ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 592 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Paul, you maniac!!! How's it going? How's old Friedrich treating you? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Was my introduction received? > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > other content to the message > > If so, > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > confirmatio From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 05:50:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 13:50:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 55840 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 13:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:50:20 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15DoJO08887 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:50:19 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A000OSEFUQA@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:50:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:50:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:50:25 -0500 Subject: Judgement on Scoring To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F50.AF6BB100.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" Good (snowy) day all. On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the person whose turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. Judgement can be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must default the job to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement Hi all, I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law) I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. Here's my beef: I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure you will agree. Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the subtraction from my score. Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have much wider implications. << File: ATT00004.htm >> From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 06:19:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 14:19:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 9070 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 14:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:19:41 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15EJdp91834 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:19:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01c08f7e$94bc6600$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08F50.AF6BB100.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:18:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" So, in other words, Eugene has what amounts to a constitutional monarchy. I just wanted that clarified, thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > Good (snowy) day all. > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the person whose > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. Judgement can > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must default the job > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > Hi all, > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that makes me the > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not prohibited by law) > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > Here's my beef: > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed with such > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., I'm sure > you will agree. > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, that has not > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account myself, thank > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > subtraction from my score. > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this judgement will > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > much wider implications. > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 06:46:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 14:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 26608 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 14:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:46:35 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA04921 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:46:34 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C08F50.AF6BB100.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in the rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > person whose > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > Judgement can > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > default the job > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > Hi all, > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > makes me the > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > prohibited by law) > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > Here's my beef: > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > with such > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > I'm sure > you will agree. > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > that has not > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > myself, thank > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > subtraction from my score. > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > judgement will > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > much wider implications. > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 06:52:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 14:52:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 4697 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 14:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:54:01 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15EquL12827 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:52:56 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A0026NHC6ZP@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:52:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:53:03 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:53:02 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F59.6EBE4B00.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" thanks, i think. maybe i did step over a boundary lacking precedence. but hopefully, this problem can be solved the right way, by formation of a scorekeeper. i concede, this is only a temporary fix. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in the rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > person whose > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > Judgement can > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > default the job > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > Hi all, > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > makes me the > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > prohibited by law) > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > Here's my beef: > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > with such > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > I'm sure > you will agree. > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > that has not > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > myself, thank > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > subtraction from my score. > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > judgement will > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > much wider implications. > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 06:57:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 14:57:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 79131 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 14:57:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:58:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA05856 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:57:44 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:59:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <028864234000521ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Paul- I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter the turn order until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This means you'll have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, you're ready to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > Was my introduction received? > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > other content to the message > > If so, > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > confirmation > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 07:01:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:01:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 330 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:01:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06254 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:01:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:03:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK - so it wasn't so OFF LIST. I was trying to be nice... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > Paul- > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter > the turn order > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This > means you'll > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, > you're ready > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > other content to the message > > > > If so, > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 07:02:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:02:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 57825 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:02:15 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15F2EL13661 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:02:14 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A002F6HRPZP@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:02:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:02:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:02:21 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F5A.BBE2B780.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Paul- I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter the turn order until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This means you'll have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, you're ready to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > Was my introduction received? > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > other content to the message > > If so, > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > confirmation > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 07:03:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:03:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 4966 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:03:19 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15F3IL13764 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:03:18 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A002H8HTHZP@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:03:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:03:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:03:25 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F5A.E206D0E0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" nothing against paul, but that is how the chips have fallen. its not like fritz was able to put up first proposal in a timely fashion -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Paul- I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter the turn order until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This means you'll have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, you're ready to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > Was my introduction received? > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > other content to the message > > If so, > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > confirmation > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 07:12:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:12:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 30914 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:13:07 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07186 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:12:02 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C08F5A.E206D0E0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" NOR DID YOU, for that matter! I had considered proposing that new players be subjected to a full round of play before entry, but now that I think more about it, it seems horribly unfair. I just think that's it's real important for players to grok the ruleset before proposing something. I was willing to let it slip if Paul was ready, esp. since he's now limited to 5 days, but my itchy trigger finger sent it off before changing the recip address. I even tried to abuse my sysadmin powers to catch it before it flew out, but I was too late. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:03 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > nothing against paul, but that is how the chips have fallen. > > its not like fritz was able to put up first proposal in a timely fashion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > Paul- > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter > the turn order > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This > means you'll > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, > you're ready > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > other content to the message > > > > If so, > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 07:23:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:23:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 64230 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:23:05 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15FN5L15650 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:05 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A003B6IQFQ8@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:23:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:23:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F5D.A51AC760.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" what about 5 days? paul, you are not a one week stand, are you? eug, i had my first proposal right after bob's time limits. i felt it unfair that i was able to do that, thus 309. about your near-stalking of your e-mail system, don't we all lust for a little bit more control? btw to all, heed 209. we are approaching a limit. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:14 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic NOR DID YOU, for that matter! I had considered proposing that new players be subjected to a full round of play before entry, but now that I think more about it, it seems horribly unfair. I just think that's it's real important for players to grok the ruleset before proposing something. I was willing to let it slip if Paul was ready, esp. since he's now limited to 5 days, but my itchy trigger finger sent it off before changing the recip address. I even tried to abuse my sysadmin powers to catch it before it flew out, but I was too late. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:03 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > nothing against paul, but that is how the chips have fallen. > > its not like fritz was able to put up first proposal in a timely fashion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > Paul- > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter > the turn order > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This > means you'll > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, > you're ready > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > other content to the message > > > > If so, > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 07:36:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:36:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 98719 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:36:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09511 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:36:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:37:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C08F5D.A51AC760.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" All this discussion is making me dizzy... I wish Pat would vote already. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:23 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > what about 5 days? paul, you are not a one week stand, are you? > > eug, i had my first proposal right after bob's time limits. i > felt it unfair that i was able to do that, thus 309. > > about your near-stalking of your e-mail system, don't we all lust > for a little bit more control? > > btw to all, heed 209. we are approaching a limit. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:14 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > NOR DID YOU, for that matter! I had considered proposing that new players > be subjected to a full round of play before entry, but now that I > think more > about it, it seems horribly unfair. I just think that's it's > real important > for players to grok the ruleset before proposing something. I was willing > to let it slip if Paul was ready, esp. since he's now limited to > 5 days, but > my itchy trigger finger sent it off before changing the recip address. I > even tried to abuse my sysadmin powers to catch it before it flew > out, but I > was too late. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:03 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > nothing against paul, but that is how the chips have fallen. > > > > its not like fritz was able to put up first proposal in a timely fashion > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > Paul- > > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter > > the turn order > > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This > > means you'll > > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, > > you're ready > > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone > else (*cough* > > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > > other content to the message > > > > > > If so, > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 07:50:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:50:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 40633 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:51:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15Fnsp99617 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:49:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c08f8b$33a129c0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08F5D.A51AC760.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:49:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > btw to all, heed 209. we are approaching a limit. > STeve: SHHH! This rule is only useful if noone is paying attention. Everybody else: "Move on, nothing to see here. Please go back to watching your TV sets." From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 07:50:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:50:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 41718 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:50:20 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15FoCp99660 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:50:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c08f8b$3e55a440$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:49:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Care to sweeten the pot? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:37 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > All this discussion is making me dizzy... I wish Pat would vote already. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:23 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > what about 5 days? paul, you are not a one week stand, are you? > > > > eug, i had my first proposal right after bob's time limits. i > > felt it unfair that i was able to do that, thus 309. > > > > about your near-stalking of your e-mail system, don't we all lust > > for a little bit more control? > > > > btw to all, heed 209. we are approaching a limit. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:14 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > NOR DID YOU, for that matter! I had considered proposing that new players > > be subjected to a full round of play before entry, but now that I > > think more > > about it, it seems horribly unfair. I just think that's it's > > real important > > for players to grok the ruleset before proposing something. I was willing > > to let it slip if Paul was ready, esp. since he's now limited to > > 5 days, but > > my itchy trigger finger sent it off before changing the recip address. I > > even tried to abuse my sysadmin powers to catch it before it flew > > out, but I > > was too late. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:03 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > > > > nothing against paul, but that is how the chips have fallen. > > > > > > its not like fritz was able to put up first proposal in a timely fashion > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > Paul- > > > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter > > > the turn order > > > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This > > > means you'll > > > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, > > > you're ready > > > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone > > else (*cough* > > > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > > > other content to the message > > > > > > > > If so, > > > > > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 07:51:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:51:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51607 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:51:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15FpOp99822 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:51:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002d01c08f8b$6689b1e0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:50:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey man, I am *all for bending the rules concerning new members*. I hate 309, and would like to see salutary neglect regarding it. I'm only a stickler for rules that suit me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:59 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > Paul- > I just noticed something in 309. You actually don't enter the turn order > until you vote, and cannot vote until the next proposal. This means you'll > have to wait about 5 weeks to propose. If, on the other hand, you're ready > to propose something, I won't make an issue of it. Someone else (*cough* > PAT!) may, however. Let me know, because Fritz's turn is almost over. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 7:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] introduction > > > > > > Was my introduction received? > > > > I got all of memos since Friday afternoon when I signed up, but no > > one has confirmed or acknowledged. > > > > if not, is repeating the official introduction acceptable here with > > other content to the message > > > > If so, > > > > Patrick Bernardo has introduced me to Scatterbrains > > > > if not, let me know and I'll try again. > > I will withhold all opinion on Prop 311 until I receive such > > confirmation > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 07:54:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 91088 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:54:17 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15Fs9p99963 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:54:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501c08f8b$cb78eda0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:53:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Wait a second, let me try to parse this. I had originally understood this to be pretty much no change - player posts a message saying that his rule won/lost and Eug scores it. But now your reading seems to be that each player maintains the score on his turn? Steve, which is it? ps - we need some chicks in this city. It's looking a little too much like Socrates' thinkery. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in the > rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly > says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in > other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. > > That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the > responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the > turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > > person whose > > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the > > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > > Judgement can > > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > > default the job > > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > > makes me the > > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > > prohibited by law) > > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > > > Here's my beef: > > > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > > with such > > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > > I'm sure > > you will agree. > > > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > > that has not > > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > > myself, thank > > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor > > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > > subtraction from my score. > > > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > > judgement will > > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > > much wider implications. > > > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 07:56:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:56:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 39704 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:56:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:56:09 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11662 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:56:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:57:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <002101c08f8b$3e55a440$c9a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Make it legal first... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:49 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > Care to sweeten the pot? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:37 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > All this discussion is making me dizzy... I wish Pat would vote already. > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 07:58:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 15:58:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4663 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 15:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:58:36 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15FwYp00499 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:58:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004501c08f8c$672befe0$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:57:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Ha ha ha! Good comeback. I guess it's enough to make me vote. I wonder if I'll decide the issue or not? hmmm. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > Make it legal first... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:49 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > Care to sweeten the pot? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:37 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OFF LIST - regarding Nomic > > > > > > > All this discussion is making me dizzy... I wish Pat would vote already. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 08:03:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:03:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 62905 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:04:32 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15G3QO20625 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:03:26 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A004OCKLPPH@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:03:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:03:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:03:33 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F63.4886C520.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" For scoring to end the turn, I want to see a person send an e-mail to all like this... After 309 was voted on , the results were 3 in favor (Bob, Fritz, Steven), 2 opposed (Pat, Eugene). +9 points to Steven [ 15*(3/5)] +10 points to Pat, in opposition to passed proposal +10 points to Eugene, in opposition to passed proposal Something like that. At least point changes are accounted for by me, since it was my turn. Total points could be included. I then ask Eugene to tabulate this, only after the e-mail gets sent out. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Wait a second, let me try to parse this. I had originally understood this to be pretty much no change - player posts a message saying that his rule won/lost and Eug scores it. But now your reading seems to be that each player maintains the score on his turn? Steve, which is it? ps - we need some chicks in this city. It's looking a little too much like Socrates' thinkery. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in the > rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly > says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in > other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. > > That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the > responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the > turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > > person whose > > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on the > > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > > Judgement can > > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > > default the job > > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is created. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > > makes me the > > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > > prohibited by law) > > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my place. > > > > Here's my beef: > > > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > > with such > > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > > I'm sure > > you will agree. > > > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > > that has not > > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, I > > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > > myself, thank > > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you tempor > > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > > subtraction from my score. > > > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > > judgement will > > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does have > > much wider implications. > > > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 08:12:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:12:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 74628 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:12:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:12:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:12:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.190]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15GC9p01703 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:12:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c08f8e$4cf18ac0$bea811d0@computer> To: References: <01C08F63.4886C520.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:11:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Sheesh.. talk about an activist judge! How is this process contained within the law? I mean, I'd want to be declared unanimously a god by the city (has anybody seen Caligula?), but I wouldn't go about issuing a judgement on it... While I do agree that the point-scoring is inevitably part of the turn (kiss those 10 points goodbye), I do think that this is a stretch... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > For scoring to end the turn, I want to see a person send an e-mail to all > like this... > > After 309 was voted on , the results were 3 in favor (Bob, Fritz, Steven), > 2 opposed (Pat, Eugene). > > +9 points to Steven [ 15*(3/5)] > +10 points to Pat, in opposition to passed proposal > +10 points to Eugene, in opposition to passed proposal > > Something like that. At least point changes are accounted for by me, since > it was my turn. Total points could be included. I then ask Eugene to > tabulate this, only after the e-mail gets sent out. > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > Wait a second, let me try to parse this. > > I had originally understood this to be pretty much no change - player posts > a message saying that his rule won/lost and Eug scores it. But now your > reading seems to be that each player maintains the score on his turn? > > Steve, which is it? > > ps - we need some chicks in this city. It's looking a little too much like > Socrates' thinkery. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in > the > > rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly > > says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in > > other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. > > > > That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the > > responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the > > turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > > > > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > > > > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > > > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > > > > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > > > person whose > > > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on > the > > > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > > > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > > > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > > > Judgement can > > > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > > > > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > > > default the job > > > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > > > > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is > created. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > > > makes me the > > > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > > > prohibited by law) > > > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my > place. > > > > > > Here's my beef: > > > > > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > > > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > > > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > > > with such > > > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > > > I'm sure > > > you will agree. > > > > > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > > > > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > > > that has not > > > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > > > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, > I > > > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > > > myself, thank > > > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you > tempor > > > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > > > subtraction from my score. > > > > > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > > > judgement will > > > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does > have > > > much wider implications. > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 08:19:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:19:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 66473 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:19:03 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15GJ1O22307 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:19:01 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A005G6LBOCI@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:19:09 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:19:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F65.75B2E0E0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" assuming you didn't want to proclaim your loss of 10 points, this would make you do it. a rule states that you lost the 10 points. this procedure would make you show everyone that you agree to your loss of points. if you don't, then we have phantom scores, nothing tangible. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:11 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Sheesh.. talk about an activist judge! How is this process contained within the law? I mean, I'd want to be declared unanimously a god by the city (has anybody seen Caligula?), but I wouldn't go about issuing a judgement on it... While I do agree that the point-scoring is inevitably part of the turn (kiss those 10 points goodbye), I do think that this is a stretch... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > For scoring to end the turn, I want to see a person send an e-mail to all > like this... > > After 309 was voted on , the results were 3 in favor (Bob, Fritz, Steven), > 2 opposed (Pat, Eugene). > > +9 points to Steven [ 15*(3/5)] > +10 points to Pat, in opposition to passed proposal > +10 points to Eugene, in opposition to passed proposal > > Something like that. At least point changes are accounted for by me, since > it was my turn. Total points could be included. I then ask Eugene to > tabulate this, only after the e-mail gets sent out. > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > Wait a second, let me try to parse this. > > I had originally understood this to be pretty much no change - player posts > a message saying that his rule won/lost and Eug scores it. But now your > reading seems to be that each player maintains the score on his turn? > > Steve, which is it? > > ps - we need some chicks in this city. It's looking a little too much like > Socrates' thinkery. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in > the > > rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly > > says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in > > other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. > > > > That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the > > responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the > > turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > > > > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > > > > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the Nomic group's > > > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > > > > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > > > person whose > > > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on > the > > > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the turn (304). > > > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the new tallies > > > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > > > Judgement can > > > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > > > > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > > > default the job > > > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > > > > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is > created. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > > > makes me the > > > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > > > prohibited by law) > > > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my > place. > > > > > > Here's my beef: > > > > > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There is nobody > > > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > > > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > > > with such > > > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > > > I'm sure > > > you will agree. > > > > > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > > > > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > > > that has not > > > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > > > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do the former, > I > > > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > > > myself, thank > > > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you > tempor > > > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to remove the > > > subtraction from my score. > > > > > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > > > judgement will > > > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does > have > > > much wider implications. > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Feb 05 08:19:59 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97126 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:19:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:19:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 16:19:58 -0000 Date: 5 Feb 2001 16:19:58 -0000 Message-ID: <981389998.276.8617.fc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure fo CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. - barturo@e... - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - No, this sucked. - f_hemker@h... - sga5892@n... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 05 08:22:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:22:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17191 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:22:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 16:22:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:22:17 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95mjvp+ekpp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <981389998.276.8617.fc@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2333 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... You guys are going to hate this, but I figured that I got more points for voting against my own winning proposal than I did for voting for it. 15 * 4/5 = 12 15 * 3/5 + 10(voting against a winner) = 19 What do you think? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to > transfer points from their own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, > for whatever reason. In no case may a > player's score fall below zero using > this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated > publicly. All point transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with > 1001. Point transfer statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, > do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at > any time. They are effective exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. > Players may explain the reasons behind > their transfer of points but are not > required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed > null and void if they do not follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a > dispute or an accusation of fraud the > current Judge, as determined in rule > 212, shall determine the legality of any > transfer using all available evidence. > If that Judge is one of the immediate > parties to the current transfer (either > giving or receiving points) he shall be > relived of his duties in this matter and > the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure > fo > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% > - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. > - barturo@e... > - bernardo@c... > - eventi@n... > - No, this sucked. > - f_hemker@h... > - sga5892@n... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/te From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 05 08:22:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:22:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 38278 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:22:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:22:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:23:36 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f15GMUO22720 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:22:30 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8A005K8LHHCI@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:22:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:22:38 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C08F65.F2B08F20.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" fritz, you point monger! -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:20 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 1.) All Players shall have the right to transfer points from their own score to the score of another in whatever amount, for whatever reason. In no case may a player's score fall below zero using this method. 2.) All point transfers shall be stated publicly. All point transfers shall be numbered sequentially, beginning with 1001. Point transfer statements shall have the following form: "Subject: Point Transfer X I [name of player], of my own free will, do transfer N points to [name of recipient]." 3.) Point transfers may take place at any time. They are effective exactly 24 hours after their public statement. Players may explain the reasons behind their transfer of points but are not required to. 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed null and void if they do not follow the proscribed procedure. In the case of a dispute or an accusation of fraud the current Judge, as determined in rule 212, shall determine the legality of any transfer using all available evidence. If that Judge is one of the immediate parties to the current transfer (either giving or receiving points) he shall be relived of his duties in this matter and the previous Judge shall take responsibility, following the procedure fo CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. - barturo@e... - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - No, this sucked. - f_hemker@h... - sga5892@n... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 08:29:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:29:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 57455 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:29:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:29:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:30:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA15335 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:29:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:30:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C08F63.4886C520.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" There's an added bonus that any Opposition and Judgement comes during the turn. But again, Steven's ruling can't require us to do this. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:04 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > For scoring to end the turn, I want to see a person send an e-mail to all > like this... > > After 309 was voted on , the results were 3 in favor (Bob, Fritz, > Steven), > 2 opposed (Pat, Eugene). > > +9 points to Steven [ 15*(3/5)] > +10 points to Pat, in opposition to passed proposal > +10 points to Eugene, in opposition to passed proposal > > Something like that. At least point changes are accounted for by > me, since > it was my turn. Total points could be included. I then ask Eugene to > tabulate this, only after the e-mail gets sent out. > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 10:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > Wait a second, let me try to parse this. > > I had originally understood this to be pretty much no change - > player posts > a message saying that his rule won/lost and Eug scores it. But now your > reading seems to be that each player maintains the score on his turn? > > Steve, which is it? > > ps - we need some chicks in this city. It's looking a little too > much like > Socrates' thinkery. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:48 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > I think you really overstepped your bounds on this. There's nothing in > the > > rules requiring players to maintain their own scores, and 212 explicitly > > says that your judgement can only address the specific issue at hand, in > > other words, there's no presedent set by your judgement. > > > > That said, I believe you made the right decision in passing the > > responsibility for scoring to the player. It is after all a part of the > > turn. LETS VOTE AND MOVE ON!!! > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:50 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Judgement on Scoring > > > > > > > > > Good (snowy) day all. > > > > > > On the issue of Pat's Call to Judgement pertaining to the > Nomic group's > > > scoring procedure, I issue this opinion. > > > > > > By 306, scoring shall conclude a turn. It is the duty of the > > > person whose > > > turn it is to tally new scores according to what events transpired on > the > > > vote of a proposal (204, 306) and by initiations during the > turn (304). > > > Only after a message is sent to all by the scorer with the > new tallies > > > will said person's turn conclude and a new turn will being. > > > Judgement can > > > be called against incorrect scoring during the following turn. > > > > > > Someone must keep the group scoreboard up-to-date. I must > > > default the job > > > to Eugene at this point, for he is the author of the table. > > > > > > This judgement will hold until an office named 'Scorekeeper' is > created. > > > > > > steve0 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 8:08 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Call to Judgement > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I'm invoking a call to judgement. Since Fritz is moving, that > > > makes me the > > > Judge. In the interests of fairness (since this is not > > > prohibited by law) > > > I'll recuse myself, and allow Steven (the next in line) to take my > place. > > > > > > Here's my beef: > > > > > > I'm disputing the subtraction of points from my score. There > is nobody > > > endowed with the requisite power. According to the laws, although the > > > points should come off, there is nobody at the beginning endowed > > > with such > > > a power. Since I know that you guys don't like arbitrary gov't., > > > I'm sure > > > you will agree. > > > > > > Before you decide too quickly, Steven, consider this: > > > > > > Eugene cannot hold a position, *by the terms of his own law*, > > > that has not > > > been legally created by a proposal. You must then either affirm that > > > score-keeping is open to everyone, or to noone. If you do > the former, > I > > > will gladly remove the subtraction of points from the account > > > myself, thank > > > you very much! If you do the latter, I would appreciate that you > tempor > > > arily endow either me, Eugene, or yourself with the power to > remove the > > > subtraction from my score. > > > > > > Currently, I'm not disputing the addition of points, so this > > > judgement will > > > only affect the subtraction of points, as I see it, although it does > have > > > much wider implications. > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 08:29:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:29:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 58128 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:29:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:29:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:29:20 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.190]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15GTIp03413 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:29:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c08f90$b241e760$bea811d0@computer> To: References: <981389998.276.8617.fc@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:28:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Slick move Fritz, voting against your own bill! It almost cost you big time, though. I was in a good mood this morning, and voted my conscience, however, I was *this* close to voting against, for the points. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to > transfer points from their own score to > the score of another in whatever amount, > for whatever reason. In no case may a > player's score fall below zero using > this method. > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated > publicly. All point transfers shall be > numbered sequentially, beginning with > 1001. Point transfer statements shall > have the following form: > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > I [name of player], of my own free will, > do transfer N points to [name of > recipient]." > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at > any time. They are effective exactly 24 > hours after their public statement. > Players may explain the reasons behind > their transfer of points but are not > required to. > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed > null and void if they do not follow the > proscribed procedure. In the case of a > dispute or an accusation of fraud the > current Judge, as determined in rule > 212, shall determine the legality of any > transfer using all available evidence. > If that Judge is one of the immediate > parties to the current transfer (either > giving or receiving points) he shall be > relived of his duties in this matter and > the previous Judge shall take > responsibility, following the procedure > fo > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% > - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. > - barturo@e... > - bernardo@c... > - eventi@n... > - No, this sucked. > - f_hemker@h... > - sga5892@n... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 05 08:37:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 16:37:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 83874 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 16:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:37:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 16:37:49 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:37:48 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95mkss+ehvo@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000b01c08f90$b241e760$bea811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3108 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Well, you have to remember that the creator of the poll is the one who closes it. I just waited until I had enough votes to win and then changed my mind. If you would have voted the other way I would have voted for it. The polling process keeps an in progress review, so I knew what was going on the whole time. No risk, no worries. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Slick move Fritz, voting against your own bill! It almost cost you big > time, though. I was in a good mood this morning, and voted my conscience, > however, I was *this* close to voting against, for the points. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:19 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > final results: > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to > > transfer points from their own score to > > the score of another in whatever amount, > > for whatever reason. In no case may a > > player's score fall below zero using > > this method. > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated > > publicly. All point transfers shall be > > numbered sequentially, beginning with > > 1001. Point transfer statements shall > > have the following form: > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > I [name of player], of my own free will, > > do transfer N points to [name of > > recipient]." > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at > > any time. They are effective exactly 24 > > hours after their public statement. > > Players may explain the reasons behind > > their transfer of points but are not > > required to. > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed > > null and void if they do not follow the > > proscribed procedure. In the case of a > > dispute or an accusation of fraud the > > current Judge, as determined in rule > > 212, shall determine the legality of any > > transfer using all available evidence. > > If that Judge is one of the immediate > > parties to the current transfer (either > > giving or receiving points) he shall be > > relived of his duties in this matter and > > the previous Judge shall take > > responsibility, following the procedure > > fo > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% > > - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. > > - barturo@e... > > - bernardo@c... > > - eventi@n... > > - No, this sucked. > > - f_hemker@h... > > - sga5892@n... > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 09:53:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 17:53:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 74497 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 17:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:54:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA24054 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:53:18 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: State of the Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:54:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) Bob: 20 Fritz: 19 Steven: 19 Eugene: 54 Pat: 28 And so, without further ado... From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 09:56:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 17:56:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 15276 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 17:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:56:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA24388 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:56:18 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 312 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:57:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Scorekeeper: The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of the report. The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Feb 05 10:03:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4685 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 18:03:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 18:03:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:03:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.74] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 18:03:20 -0000 Date: 5 Feb 2001 18:03:18 -0000 Message-ID: <981396198.4503.3766.cd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /rules.html Uploaded by : eventi@c... Description : The HTML Rules File You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/files/rules.html To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, eventi@c... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 05 10:12:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 18:12:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 32775 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 18:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 18:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:12:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 18:12:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:12:00 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: State of the Nomic Message-ID: <95mqdg+ebnt@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 303 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Didn't I recieve an intial five points for joining in the proscribed manner? --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) > > Bob: 20 > Fritz: 19 > Steven: 19 > Eugene: 54 > Pat: 28 > > And so, without further ado.. From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 10:26:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 18:26:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 52314 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 18:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 18:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:26:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA27429 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:26:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:27:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <95mqdg+ebnt@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" No, Pat gets 5 for the introduction. http://www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html#r304 --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:12 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic > > > Didn't I recieve an intial five points for joining in the proscribed > manner? > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) > > > > Bob: 20 > > Fritz: 19 > > Steven: 19 > > Eugene: 54 > > Pat: 28 > > > > And so, without further ado.. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 05 11:03:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 19:03:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 66862 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 19:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:03:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2001 19:03:36 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:03:35 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: State of the Nomic Message-ID: <95mte7+dhvr@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 897 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Oops, you're right. Sorry. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > No, Pat gets 5 for the introduction. > > http://www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html#r304 > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:12 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic > > > > > > Didn't I recieve an intial five points for joining in the proscribed > > manner? > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) > > > > > > Bob: 20 > > > Fritz: 19 > > > Steven: 19 > > > Eugene: 54 > > > Pat: 28 > > > > > > And so, without further ado.. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 11:42:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 19:42:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 86505 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:59:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:51:35 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:51:18 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:51:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] introduction Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01C08EF9.66D04520.sga5892@n...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <002795759190521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" hi steve From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 11:45:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 19:45:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 56992 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 19:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:46:21 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:02:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:54:33 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:54:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:54:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] introduction Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D3@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0040e5602200521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" hello bob. Fritz, Eugene From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 11:48:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 19:48:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 42233 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 19:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:48:46 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:06:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:58:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 13:57:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:57:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: introduction Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95majb+uinr@eGroups.com> References: <028864234000521ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <001ec2506200521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" hey Fritz, how the hell are ya. Frierich is treating me poorly enought that I was in my office last night to send this. We should catch up "outside" By the way for those unaware, I am on CST From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 12:17:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:17:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 46295 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:17:48 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f15KHkp31688 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:17:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002801c08fb0$9caeeea0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <95mqdg+ebnt@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:17:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, *I* received those points... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 1:12 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic > Didn't I recieve an intial five points for joining in the proscribed > manner? > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) > > > > Bob: 20 > > Fritz: 19 > > Steven: 19 > > Eugene: 54 > > Pat: 28 > > > > And so, without further ado.. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 12:28:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:28:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 82346 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:28:26 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:46:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 14:37:42 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 14:37:34 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:37:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: State of the Nomic Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002801c08fb0$9caeeea0$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0012a0446200521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Shouldn't I be on the list with an official 0 points unless anyone wants to give me some (now that you can) to win my favor before I make enemies, or just set a precedent to encourage "Be fruitful and multiply" P.S. Yes, we either need chicks or a different name for expansion From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 12:33:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:33:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 93152 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:33:45 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA11114 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:33:44 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: State of the Nomic (slight return) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:35:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You see why I wanna get paid for this?!?!?! The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) Bob: 20 Fritz: 19 Steven: 19 Eugene: 54 Pat: 28 Paul: 0 From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 12:40:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:40:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 17506 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 21:41:53 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:58:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 14:50:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 14:49:49 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:49:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <000f72758200521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" thank you as point of inquiry, is scoring required to be in whole numbers. This seems to be the spirit of the rounding provision, but nowhere expressed? Would this be in the discretion of the scorekeeper? From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 12:45:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:45:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 8460 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:45:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12353 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:45:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:47:32 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <000f72758200521ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Scoring is so far in whole numbers. It's up to the rules to allow fractional scores (or not to specify otherwise), and the Scorekeeper would only adhere to the rules. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) > > > thank you > > as point of inquiry, is scoring required to be in whole numbers. > This seems to be the spirit of the rounding provision, but nowhere > expressed? Would this be in the discretion of the scorekeeper? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 12:47:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 20:47:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 98450 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:47:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 20:47:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:47:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12483 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:47:18 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:48:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <000f72758200521ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" By the way- It's customary (though certainly not required) to reply to the Proposal if your question is about the proposal. Someone should write a "Welcome to ..." document. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 3:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) > > > thank you > > as point of inquiry, is scoring required to be in whole numbers. > This seems to be the spirit of the rounding provision, but nowhere > expressed? Would this be in the discretion of the scorekeeper? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 14:40:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 22:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 30933 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:40:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:57:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 16:49:35 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 16:49:25 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:49:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000f72758200521ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0019f5657220521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Thank you, but my question was more about scoring as it now stands than it was about the proposal. I understand that scoring is according to the rules, but prior to this point (the adoption of 311) there was no way to score in anything but round numbers. If under 311 someone were to award another player fractional points is the assumption that such a score would be rounded to the nearest intege because all other scoring requires such rounding. My secondary question is who if anyone has the authority to decide this question. Does it requrie the office of a scorekeeper to settle. From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 14:51:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 22:51:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 63337 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:51:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 22:51:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 23:52:45 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:09:19 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 17:00:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 17:00:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:00:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004ec1909230521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I have a question about the language of 312. first "per turn"needs to be clarified, the scorekeeper's turn or any player's turn? Second, I would like to question the use of points as a method of "payment" Are points to be understood as a currency, or are they not more properly to be understood as system of honors and awards. i have no objection to a scorekeeper beings awarded points for his service, but I am troubled about the degenaration of honors into payments. Are we already decaying to a system governed by honors to one by weatlh?! (For this reason I would have opposed 311, too late) It seems that the concern for the possibility of commerce would be best served by the creation of a currency (transferable awards other than points, for which we might find all sorts of creative uses) not the decay of points into a currency. I realize that this is largely besides the point, but it does weigh on the creation of the narrowness of the office of "Scorekeeper' when an office with broader powers may encompass this function. Is there no room between the proposed Chief Magistrate of 310 and the narrow administrative post of scorekeeper. P.S. I applaud you Eugene for your fine service to the community of Scatterbrains in tending ot the scoreboard and I hope that we find a way to reward you for it. From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 14:54:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 5 Feb 2001 22:54:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 39837 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2001 22:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 23:55:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24217 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:54:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 17:55:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <0019f5657220521ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Good point. You are correct that since it's not prohibited to transfer a fraction of a point, it's allowed. Even if all the other rules call for points to be in integers, you can still transfer a fraction of a point. And if there's an issue to be resolved, no-one but the Judge(212) has authority. --e (slow day) > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 5:49 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic (slight return) > > > Thank you, but my question was more about scoring as it now > stands than it was about the proposal. I understand that scoring is > according to the rules, but prior to this point (the adoption of 311) > there was no way to score in anything but round numbers. If under > 311 someone were to award another player fractional points is the > assumption that such a score would be rounded to the nearest > intege because all other scoring requires such rounding. > > My secondary question is who if anyone has the authority to > decide this question. Does it requrie the office of a scorekeeper to > settle. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 16:56:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 00:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 31404 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 00:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 00:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:57:58 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f160uqp55930 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:56:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c08fd7$99c159e0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <004ec1909230521ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:56:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > P.S. I applaud you Eugene for your fine service to the community > of Scatterbrains in tending ot the scoreboard and I hope that we > find a way to reward you for it. > Hey! No ass-kissing the king! From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 17:02:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 01:02:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 93258 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 01:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 01:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:02:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1612qp56359 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:02:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c08fd8$704a4f80$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <95mkss+ehvo@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:02:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Of course, of course. I thought that the polls closed automatically. It was a brilliant tactical move, in fact. This just reinforces my point: I'm not sure why people don't trust me. There are obviously others out here much more Machiavellian than I. I was just trying to help the community as a whole. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > Well, you have to remember that the creator of the poll is the one who > closes it. I just waited until I had enough votes to win and then > changed my mind. If you would have voted the other way I would have > voted for it. The polling process keeps an in progress review, so I > knew what was going on the whole time. > > No risk, no worries. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Slick move Fritz, voting against your own bill! It almost cost you > big > > time, though. I was in a good mood this morning, and voted my > conscience, > > however, I was *this* close to voting against, for the points. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:19 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 311 > > > > > > 1.) All Players shall have the right to > > > transfer points from their own score to > > > the score of another in whatever amount, > > > for whatever reason. In no case may a > > > player's score fall below zero using > > > this method. > > > > > > 2.) All point transfers shall be stated > > > publicly. All point transfers shall be > > > numbered sequentially, beginning with > > > 1001. Point transfer statements shall > > > have the following form: > > > > > > "Subject: Point Transfer X > > > I [name of player], of my own free will, > > > do transfer N points to [name of > > > recipient]." > > > > > > 3.) Point transfers may take place at > > > any time. They are effective exactly 24 > > > hours after their public statement. > > > Players may explain the reasons behind > > > their transfer of points but are not > > > required to. > > > > > > 4.) Point transfers shall be deemed > > > null and void if they do not follow the > > > proscribed procedure. In the case of a > > > dispute or an accusation of fraud the > > > current Judge, as determined in rule > > > 212, shall determine the legality of any > > > transfer using all available evidence. > > > If that Judge is one of the immediate > > > parties to the current transfer (either > > > giving or receiving points) he shall be > > > relived of his duties in this matter and > > > the previous Judge shall take > > > responsibility, following the procedure > > > fo > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread., 3 votes, 60.00% > > > - No, this sucked., 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > - Yes, the best thing since sliced bread. > > > - barturo@e... > > > - bernardo@c... > > > - eventi@n... > > > - No, this sucked. > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > - sga5892@n... > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 05 17:03:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 01:03:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 38897 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 01:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 01:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 02:04:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1613Xp56408 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:03:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002b01c08fd8$893c1d20$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:02:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Damn, man, losing that prop meant more than a 20 point swing in my relative score. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic > The Scores (whether or not I have the right to tell you) > > Bob: 20 > Fritz: 19 > Steven: 19 > Eugene: 54 > Pat: 28 > > And so, without further ado... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 17:03:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 01:03:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 95559 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 01:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 01:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 02:04:51 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:21:22 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:13:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:12:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:12:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001501c08fd7$99c159e0$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0015e2221010621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But only some players can here MY voice in the lines I write. I woudl like to take this oppurtunity as a plea for a gift of some points to give me a jump start at thsi late stage in the game. I would be grateful for any pure gift, but especially ask you Patrick as my introducer and thsu the beneficiary of rewards for my introuduction for an even split of the five points you gained through me. I hope that you take the new oppurtunity to proivde me this gift of 2.5 points, and the benefactor may be rewarded more than the beneficiary. (Although I fear that the wisdom of the author of 311(my office number reversed) may prevent the rewards being as great as I had once hoped p From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 17:06:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 01:06:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 45058 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 01:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 01:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 01:06:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:23:50 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:15:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:15:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:15:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] State of the Nomic Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002b01c08fd8$893c1d20$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <003a75023010621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I hope it wasn't a bad time to ask From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 05 17:14:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 01:14:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 67558 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 01:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 01:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 02:15:42 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:32:15 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:23:55 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Feb 01 19:23:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:23:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002301c08fd8$704a4f80$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <001801532010621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" i am leaving patrick I urge you to consider carefully From eventi@n... Mon Feb 05 20:42:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 04:42:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 97546 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 04:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 04:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 05:43:44 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA11420 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:42:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006501c08ff7$3aa72320$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <004ec1909230521ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:42:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I meant per players turn. 306 defines one turn. I suppose 311 makes points into the currency of the land. Any other currency we could come up with would just wind up being exchanged for points. And we don't have any real property, so in a way, you're awarded for success in proposals, and you can use that reward as a means of exchange. The reason for the narrowness of the Scorekeeper's role is that I'm tired. Seriously, it's gotta be done, and I want to make the job simple and non time consuming enough so that whoever gets the job will actually do it. And after Pat's Call For Judgement, it became quite obvious that the recording of the official score should not be taken for granted. And as for the personal tribute, you can buy me beer if you're ever in Jersey. I don't think I'll be going to Chicago soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kirkland" To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 > I have a question about the language of 312. first "per turn"needs > to be clarified, the scorekeeper's turn or any player's turn? > > Second, I would like to question the use of points as a method of > "payment" Are points to be understood as a currency, or are they > not more properly to be understood as system of honors and > awards. i have no objection to a scorekeeper beings awarded > points for his service, but I am troubled about the degenaration of > honors into payments. Are we already decaying to a system > governed by honors to one by weatlh?! > (For this reason I would have opposed 311, too late) > > It seems that the concern for the possibility of commerce would be > best served by the creation of a currency (transferable awards other > than points, for which we might find all sorts of creative uses) not > the decay of points into a currency. > > I realize that this is largely besides the point, but it does weigh on > the creation of the narrowness of the office of "Scorekeeper' when > an office with broader powers may encompass this function. Is > there no room between the proposed Chief Magistrate of 310 and > the narrow administrative post of scorekeeper. > > P.S. I applaud you Eugene for your fine service to the community > of Scatterbrains in tending ot the scoreboard and I hope that we > find a way to reward you for it. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Feb 05 20:46:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73350 invoked by uid 7800); 6 Feb 2001 04:46:33 -0000 Date: 6 Feb 2001 04:46:33 -0000 Message-ID: <981434793.161192986.42048.l10@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - rules.html Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-----007813463900224565330037892161" -------007813463900224565330037892161 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit File : rules.html Description : The HTML Rules File Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms -------007813463900224565330037892161 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="rules.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 [Attachment content not displayed.] -------007813463900224565330037892161-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 06:26:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 81969 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 14:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:26:22 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09060 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:26:21 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:27:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <981434793.161192986.42048.l10@yahoogroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" If anyone hasn't noticed, I had a slight hack-attack on Thursday night, leading well into Saturday. The new files are at www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html --e > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:47 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > > > File : rules.html > Description : The HTML Rules File > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 07:42:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 15:42:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 6881 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 15:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 15:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 15:42:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16FgHp20386 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:42:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c09053$4ae0b6a0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <001801532010621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:41:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" What should I be considering? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > i am leaving > patrick I urge you to consider carefully > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 07:46:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 15:46:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 2029 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 15:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 15:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 15:46:32 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16FkSp20850 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:46:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01c09053$e0762ba0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:45:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm confused. Do you mean that you had a hack-attack in the sense that some do-no-gooder broke into our site, and basically ran amok, or do you mean that you had a hack-attack in the sense that you were bored and decided to stay up all night making groovy Scatterbrains websites, or do you mean that you blew off work and Scatterbrains and played Hack, that cool, refreshing game? All this e-lingo in this place (pun *definitely* intended) is making me feel painfully unhip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:27 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > If anyone hasn't noticed, I had a slight hack-attack on Thursday night, > leading well into Saturday. The new files are at > www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:47 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > > > > > > > > File : rules.html > > Description : The HTML Rules File > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 07:54:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 15:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 60259 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 15:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 15:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 15:54:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA17421 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:54:13 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:55:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <001f01c09053$e0762ba0$c7a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" >From the Jargon File: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/hack-attack.html It's basically typing until your fingers bleed. I stayed up Thurs. Worked Fri, came home and hacked at it until Saturday night. I even wrote parts of it on my pager and mailed it to myself... The design's mostly stolen, but the backend application which generates it is a true thing of beauty. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 10:46 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > I'm confused. Do you mean that you had a hack-attack in the > sense that some > do-no-gooder broke into our site, and basically ran amok, or do you mean > that you had a hack-attack in the sense that you were bored and decided to > stay up all night making groovy Scatterbrains websites, or do you > mean that > you blew off work and Scatterbrains and played Hack, that cool, refreshing > game? All this e-lingo in this place (pun *definitely* intended) > is making > me feel painfully unhip. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:27 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > > If anyone hasn't noticed, I had a slight hack-attack on Thursday night, > > leading well into Saturday. The new files are at > > www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > [mailto:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:47 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > File : rules.html > > > Description : The HTML Rules File > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 08:02:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:02:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 84268 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:02:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:19:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 10:11:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 10:11:17 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:11:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000f01c09053$4ae0b6a0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004313419160621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Giving me points. 2.5 to be precise Did you see this? I woudl like to take this oppurtunity as a plea for a gift of some points to give me a jump start at thsi late stage in the game. I would be grateful for any pure gift, but especially ask you Patrick as my introducer and thsu the beneficiary of rewards for my introuduction for an even split of the five points you gained through me. I hope that you take the new oppurtunity to proivde me this gift of 2.5 points, and the benefactor may be rewarded more than the beneficiary. (Although I fear that the wisdom of the author of 311(my office number reversed) may prevent the rewards being as great as I had once hoped I was hoping for a gift in the course of the night From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 08:06:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:06:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 60640 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:06:12 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA18655 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:06:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:07:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <004313419160621ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think someone should give him the square root of seven points. It's a little more than 2.5, and irrational (in both the mathematical and the Spock sense). > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 11:11 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > Giving me points. > 2.5 to be precise > > Did you see this? > > > I woudl like to take this oppurtunity as a plea for a gift of some > points to give me a jump start at thsi late stage in the game. I > would be grateful for any pure gift, but especially ask you Patrick > as my introducer and thsu the beneficiary of rewards for my > introuduction for an even split of the five points you gained through > me. > I hope that you take the new oppurtunity to proivde me this gift of > 2.5 > points, and the benefactor may be rewarded more than the > beneficiary. > (Although I fear that the wisdom of the author of 311(my office > number > reversed) may prevent the rewards being as great as I had once > hoped > > I was hoping for a gift in the course of the night > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 08:13:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:13:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1297 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:13:31 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:31:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 10:22:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 10:22:28 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:22:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004313419160621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004000031160621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But 2.5 points would be rational incuding in the Spock sense. Maybe everyone could give me exactly half a point. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 08:16:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:16:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 9803 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:16:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:16:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:17:22 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA19572 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:16:14 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:17:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <004000031160621ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" CLOSE THE BORDERS!!!!!!! These recent immigrants (well this one) has become a burden to the respectable citizens. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 11:22 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > But 2.5 points would be rational incuding in the Spock sense. > > Maybe everyone could give me exactly half a point. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Tue Feb 06 08:17:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:17:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 94355 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f16GHaJ23841 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:17:36 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8C004PKFXBD9@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:17:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:17:44 -0500 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0902E.6D2AF100.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" minor grips about this proposal... to make the job easier, i suggest not requring the scorekeeper to tally points until the scoring portion of the turn. the amount of points you begin the turn with will be the points you have through the vote. this is rather odd, since transactions can occur well before a vote has completed, such as a transaction to buy a vote. this does make the office easier to handle, and there is a definitive time when one is to get paid (a bi-weekly salary, say). with the above, disputes can be brought up during the next turn (do i get any points for being a co-author?) what date is to be listed? the date the scorer writes it on the table or the date of the occurance? other than details, you are in line to getting my vote (unless i smell a point gathering scheme brewing). eug, give paul a little incentive to play... you are in a good position to redistribute wealth and in a better position to guarantee the longevity of the group through charity. be a humanitarian monarch while you still can. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:58 PM To: Scatterbrains Nomic Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Scorekeeper: The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of the report. The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 08:57:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 16:57:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 51407 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 16:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:57:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 16:57:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:57:07 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Point Transfer 1001 Message-ID: <95pad3+i58f@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 87 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... I Frederick M. Hemker IV, of my own free will, do transfer .5 points to Paul Kirkland. From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 09:00:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 17:00:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24507 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 17:00:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 17:00:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:00:48 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:18:18 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 11:10:07 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 11:09:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:09:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Point Transfer 1001 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pad3+i58f@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <006b01818170621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" thank you fritz. I accept the .5 points From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 10:04:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:04:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 12959 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:05:41 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA00122 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:04:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:06:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C0902E.6D2AF100.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Responses below... > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 11:18 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 > > > minor grips about this proposal... > > to make the job easier, i suggest not requring the scorekeeper to tally > points until the scoring portion of the turn. the amount of points you > begin the turn with will be the points you have through the vote. > this is > rather odd, since transactions can occur well before a vote has > completed, > such as a transaction to buy a vote. this does make the office easier to > handle, and there is a definitive time when one is to get paid (a > bi-weekly > salary, say). This makes some sense, I don't think it's necessary, however. The scorekeeper can scan the list daily, see which transfers were made, and record them in the next 24 hours. Maybe the tally can be distributed after the vote, to cut down on noise pollution. > with the above, disputes can be brought up during the next turn (do i get > any points for being a co-author?) No. > > what date is to be listed? the date the scorer writes it on the table or > the date of the occurance? The date of the occurance. Like a checkbook. > > other than details, you are in line to getting my vote (unless i smell a > point gathering scheme brewing). > Thanks. > eug, give paul a little incentive to play... you are in a good > position to > redistribute wealth and in a better position to guarantee the > longevity of > the group through charity. be a humanitarian monarch while you still can. It's a game... play to win. Seriously, I'm setting up a little charity. Why don't you donate the money to me, and I'll match your contributions. --e > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 12:58 PM > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 > > Scorekeeper: > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining > and reporting the official score of the game. > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a > player's score > within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any > disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days > of > the report. > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each > corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, > the > player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and > the > positive or negative score adjustment. > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the > population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point > from each > player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll > shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player > shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff > election, > conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable > after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his > discression, make > adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the > dispute period. > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. If a > majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new > one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is > entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such > time as a > new scorekeeper is selected. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 10:17:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:17:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 51599 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:17:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 18:17:13 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:17:12 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 312 Message-ID: <95pf38+frt5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2287 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Instead of having the score keeper's tenure last until a majority objected, why don't you allow for periodic votes of confidence? You might have regularily scheduled votes of confidence where a majority must agree to keep the person in office, say every 10 turns, plus the option of getting rid of the person at an earlier point if need be. How about adding a term limit of some kind? Say, no more than 15 or 20 consecutive turns as score keeper. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Scorekeeper: > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining > and reporting the official score of the game. > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score > within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any > disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of > the report. > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each > corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the > player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the > positive or negative score adjustment. > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the > population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each > player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll > shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player > shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, > conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable > after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make > adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. If a > majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new > one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is > entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a > new From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 10:22:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:22:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 85156 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:22:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:22:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:23:38 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-15.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.200]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16IMTp36908 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:22:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401c09069$ad19f820$c8a811d0@computer> To: References: <004313419160621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:21:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Giving me points. > 2.5 to be precise > I did know that you had that in mind, but, I'm still not sure what I need to consider. > Did you see this? > Yes. > > I woudl like to take this oppurtunity as a plea for a gift of some > points to give me a jump start at thsi late stage in the game. I > would be grateful for any pure gift, but especially ask you Patrick > as my introducer and thsu the beneficiary of rewards for my > introuduction for an even split of the five points you gained through > me. > I hope that you take the new oppurtunity to proivde me this gift of > 2.5 > points, and the benefactor may be rewarded more than the > beneficiary. In what way? From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 10:26:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:26:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 97687 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:26:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:26:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:26:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:44:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:35:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:35:36 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:35:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pf38+frt5@eGroups.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <005db0444180621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" periodic votes yes term limits, NO!!! From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 10:30:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:30:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7396 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:31:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-15.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.200]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16IU3p37658 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:30:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004801c0906a$bb6ba120$c8a811d0@computer> To: Subject: A suggestion to the new guy Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:29:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C09040.D15FD840" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C09040.D15FD840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul, Is there a way that your email reader can include the replied to message as= well as your response? It can often make life easier. If you're unsure h= ow to do with your mail reader, you can say which one you are using, and I'= m sure one of the techno-geeks in this city can help you out. p. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C09040.D15FD840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul,
 
Is there a way that your email reader can = include=20 the replied to message as well as your response?  It can often make li= fe=20 easier.  If you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can say= =20 which one you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this city = can=20 help you out.
 
p.
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C09040.D15FD840-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 10:31:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:31:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10259 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:31:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:48:32 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:40:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:40:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:40:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001401c09069$ad19f820$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0067d3248180621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. You could give others the same split, but the added interest is to get me to concern myself with the good laws of the Scatterbrains community. My understanding of the CURRENT conventions regarding scoring suggest the possibility of giving points without losing points... that is where I was going... From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 10:34:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:34:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 267 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:34:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:34:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:34:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:51:31 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:43:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:43:03 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:43:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004801c0906a$bb6ba120$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0042e3151180621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 13:29, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Paul, > > Is there a way that your email reader can include the replied to > message as well as your response? It can often make life easier. If > you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can say which one > you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this city can > help you out. > > p. > yes, sorry From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 10:46:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:46:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 69288 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:46:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA04693 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:46:25 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:48:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <004801c0906a$bb6ba120$c8a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Second that!!! What mail reader? I'll pass the request to my tech support dept. --e -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:29 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Paul, Is there a way that your email reader can include the replied to message as well as your response? It can often make life easier. If you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can say which one you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this city can help you out. p. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 10:49:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:49:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 76979 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:49:26 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:06:53 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:58:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 12:58:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:58:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004801c0906a$bb6ba120$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004a25306190621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 13:48, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: OK OK > Second that!!! What mail reader? I'll pass the request to my tech > support dept. --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:29 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy > > > Paul, > > Is there a way that your email reader can include the replied to > message as well as your response? It can often make life easier. If > you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can say which one > you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this city can > help you out. > > p. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485199/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 10:57:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 18:57:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 82059 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 18:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:57:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-15.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.200]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16Iv7p40250 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:57:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005c01c0906e$83e996e0$c8a811d0@computer> To: References: <0067d3248180621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:56:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Paul: Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. Patrick "don't make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" Bernardo ps- as for making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why that's any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well enough. (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. You could > give others the same split, but the added interest is to get me to > concern myself with the good laws of the Scatterbrains community. > > My understanding of the CURRENT conventions regarding scoring > suggest the possibility of giving points without losing points... that > is where I was going... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 11:13:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 19:13:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 12649 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 19:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:13:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA07675 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:13:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <005c01c0906e$83e996e0$c8a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" SNIPPAGE > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be all > pedantic. I can't really work.) Bob says go to Andy's Beer is good for the flu. --e From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 11:36:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 19:36:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 79609 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 19:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:36:02 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:53:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 13:45:17 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 13:44:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:44:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005c01c0906e$83e996e0$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <006ac2753190621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: . > Paul: > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > Patrick "don't make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > Bernardo > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried to paste somethng. patrick, since you are too busy reading the Latin dictionary to think I will spell out what I had in mind. My understanding is that the spirit of the law demands that all official scoring be done in whole numbers, but the new provision for exchange permits fractions. (I a also see no authority to prevent rounding up fractional gifts) I was working an a round and expand scheme. Thus if you could give me exactly .5 points, we could grow the economy with losses to no one. I suggested half of your reward for my introduction (which might be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores by giving points back and forth and build up points in one score with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points back a half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each of our scores. I am pretty sure the 24 hour waiting period would have screwed this up anyway. I asked you, patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > ps- as for making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > that's any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > enough. > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather than the greater Al) As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern for GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of those laws. Primarily the point was the need to close this loophole by either clarity or preferably an office with the power and discretion to avoid such idiocies. In any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be grateful. > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. You could give > > others the same split, but the added interest is to get me to > > concern myself with the good laws of the Scatterbrains community. > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT conventions regarding scoring > > suggest the possibility of giving points without losing points... > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 11:46:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 19:46:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 28387 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 19:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:46:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.109] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 19:46:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:46:49 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95pkb9+a60s@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <006ac2753190621ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4676 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to another, they are divisable. Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 12:03:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 20:03:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 74299 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 20:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:03:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:20:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 14:12:33 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 14:12:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 14:12:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pkb9+a60s@eGroups.com> References: <006ac2753190621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004dd4220200621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > another, they are divisable. > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more efficient. but at present there is no such rule. But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) points and the game could not continue because the scoring could not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 12:41:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 20:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 65305 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 20:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:41:18 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA17432 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:41:02 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:42:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <004dd4220200621ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if you want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law has been broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > another, they are divisable. > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > efficient. > but at present there is no such rule. > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 12:58:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 20:58:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 29269 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 20:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:58:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.91] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 20:58:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:58:21 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95pohd+3cl6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7928 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... In rule 306, where it speaks of "all fractional scores shall be rounded up to the nearest integer," I take that to mean only in the sense that one is asinging points after multiplying 15 by n/t. In other senses, when I sent .5 to Paul for example, I can't see that the same thing applies. Only in asigning scores after the passing of a rule does one round up. Because I'm a party to this transfer, I sent Paul the .5, I don't think I can judge as to its legality or effect. I should have thought about that before I did it. I can see that we really need a scorekeeper for this sort of thing. However, I find it difficult to support any office that does not have a terminal point of tenure. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if you > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law has been > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > efficient. > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this g From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 13:12:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:12:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 85142 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:12:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:12:38 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:30:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:21:55 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:21:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:21:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pohd+3cl6@eGroups.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0063e0430210621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 20:58, f_hemker@h... wrote: > In rule 306, where it speaks of "all fractional scores shall be > rounded up to the nearest integer," I take that to mean only in the > sense that one is asinging points after multiplying 15 by n/t. In > other senses, when I sent .5 to Paul for example, I can't see that the > same thing applies. Only in asigning scores after the passing of a > rule does one round up. > > Because I'm a party to this transfer, I sent Paul the .5, I don't > think I can judge as to its legality or effect. I should have thought > about that before I did it. right your score is also in question. Under my theory it remains the same. who would be judge if it comes to that? > > I can see that we really need a scorekeeper for this sort of thing. > However, I find it difficult to support any office that does not have > a terminal point of tenure. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if > you > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer > isn't > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No > law has been > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a > judgement in your favor. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February > 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: > [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 6 > Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > The evil specter of > inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > Only points gained from > getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > > think that > otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a > rule. Right? > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters > woudl be even more > > efficient. > > but at present there is no such > rule. > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The > rules as > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They > offer a > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me > that the > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. > For now it must > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the > efficiency of scoring, > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and > a player could give > > someone an irrational number of (in the > mathematical sense) > > points and the game could not continue because > the scoring could > > not be completed. Without the expressed > provison for it in the law, > > no one has the authority to determine > the number of digits to which > > the scoring should be carried out. > This problem can only be solved > > by default to the implied > preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > --- In > scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the > only one > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. > Otherwise, I > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the > literal sense (from > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from > fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) > It denotes that you are taking > > > > > something from one place, > and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is > a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > make me bust out > Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > > (Cf. > TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > to > > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision > for > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to > prevent > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round > and expand > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 > points, we could grow > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I > suggested half of your reward > > > for my introduction (which > might > be taken back) to veil the real > > > reason for half points. > > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > > expanding both scores > > by giving points back and forth and build up > > > points in one > score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > > all of > your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > > one > point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges > under > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > > ps- as for > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure > why > > that's any > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who > would have > > made you > > > have respect for the law, was voted > down. Secondly, if you > > desire > > > to win, or at least have a > little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > enough. > > > As to the > MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > > > (unfortunately > it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > > > than the > greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > the > law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the > point was > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > preferably an > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > > such idiocies. > > In > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a > full point from the > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 > est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > > who would like to share (literally) > a point with me, I would be > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick > with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > better to do than be > > all > pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is > tired of > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are > because of me. > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but > the added interest is > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the > good laws of the > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My > understanding of the CURRENT > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > > points without losing > points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this g > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981493109/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 13:13:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:12:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 69829 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:13:58 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16LCmp55707 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:12:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c09081$76d315e0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:12:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" This is where it's good to be the eugene. He could simply ignore Paul's request for the rounding up, and Paul would have nothing to sue over - since there is no act to call him on. But I think that your interpretation of the law, Paul, is a stretch. I prohibited fractional scoring for getting a law precisely for the reason that Fritz suggested - the score is being multiplied by a fraction. Things would get messy that way. But this law in no way implies or requires that scores achieved under different circumstances should be rounded up. Secondly, Fritz, in writing his transfer law clearly could have prohibited fractional transfers. Since he did not, and moreover since he did himself transfer a fractional amount to you, then I think that it is safe to say that his intent was to allow for the possibility of fractional transfers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if you > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law has been > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > efficient. > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 13:18:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:18:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 206 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:18:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:18:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:18:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:35:31 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:27:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:27:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:27:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004dd4220200621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <006803135210621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 15:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if > you want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer > isn't official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No > law has been broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement > in your favor. > > --e so am I to take this to mean that you will record fractional scores as fractions? to how many decimal places? On what authority would you round an irrational number, for example. Or would you not, someone could end the game by giving another player pi pionts? it seems to me that avoiding such a problem is part of the reason for the rounding to an integer rule. there is not precedent for rounding to something other than an integer. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. > > > I think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from > > > one to another, they are divisable. > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > efficient. > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it > > must be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of > > scoring, Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could > > give someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could not > > be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, no > > one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which the > > scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved by > > default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only > > > > one > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, > > > > > I > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense > > > > (from > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to > > > > carry or bring] > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick > > > "don't make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > > > > Bernardo > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I > > > > > tried > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading > > > the Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in > > > mind. My understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands > > > that all official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > > > provision for exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no > > > authority to prevent rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working > > > an a round and expand scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly > > > .5 points, we could grow the economy with losses to no > one. I > > > suggested half of your reward for my introduction (which > might > > > be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. > > > > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores > > > > by giving points back and forth and build up points in one score > > > > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points > > > back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each > > > of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour waiting period > > > would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, patrick, > > > because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under the > > > guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's > > > any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > > > > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if > > > you > > desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will > > > bind you well > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here > > > in time for 310, Al. > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser > > > > rather than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say > > > > respect for > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws > > > as a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point > > > was the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > > > preferably an office with the power and discretion to avoid > such > > > idiocies. > > In any case, I believe I should be awarded a full > > > point from the > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est > > > tomorrow. Anyone else > who would like to share (literally) a > > > point with me, I would be > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with > > > the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be > > all > > > pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM Subject: Re: > > > [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest > > > is to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the > > > CURRENT conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the > > > possibility of giving points without losing points... > > > that > > > is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for > > > > > more details > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981492084/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 13:19:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:19:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 71493 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:19:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16LJMp56616 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:19:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c09082$61b87280$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <006ac2753190621ISWEBNT@d...> <004dd4220200621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:18:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > efficient. > but at present there is no such rule. > I disagree - we don't particularly need a rule. Points gained by passing a law cannot be fractional, points gained by transfers can be fractional. > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > not be completed. 10 + 7^1/2 is an irrational (in the mathematical sense), but a scorable score. For example, if you had 190 + 7^1/2 points, and you got 9 points for passing a law you would still be over the 200 and you would win. It's imaginary numbers (in the mathematical sense) that could represent a problem, but the sucker who takes this transfer would deserve the problems that it creates (do *you* want -8^1/2 points?). I think the problem is more theoretical than actual. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 13:21:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:21:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 76458 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:21:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA22055 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:21:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:22:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <000701c09081$76d315e0$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" There are many reasons why it's good to be me... Not only _can_ I deny the request, I already did. There's no rule violation to cite. You can continue to claim to have the extra rounded up score, but you might as well claim you're Bugs Bunny. I'll be the King of France, while we're at it. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:12 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > This is where it's good to be the eugene. He could simply ignore Paul's > request for the rounding up, and Paul would have nothing to sue > over - since > there is no act to call him on. > > But I think that your interpretation of the law, Paul, is a stretch. I > prohibited fractional scoring for getting a law precisely for the reason > that Fritz suggested - the score is being multiplied by a > fraction. Things > would get messy that way. But this law in no way implies or requires that > scores achieved under different circumstances should be rounded up. > > Secondly, Fritz, in writing his transfer law clearly could have prohibited > fractional transfers. Since he did not, and moreover since he did himself > transfer a fractional amount to you, then I think that it is safe to say > that his intent was to allow for the possibility of fractional transfers. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:42 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in > court, if you > > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't > > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law has > been > > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. > > > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be > fractional. I > > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points > from one to > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > > efficient. > > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must > > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, > > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, > > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which > > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > On > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, > the only one > > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. > Otherwise, I > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal > sense (from > > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to > carry or bring] > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are > taking > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > > Bernardo > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in > mind. My > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > provision for > > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we > could grow > > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of > your reward > > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a > plan to keep > > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > > that's any > > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > > desire > > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time > for 310, Al. > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the > lesser rather > > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt > all laws as > > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily > the point was > > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such > idiocies. > > In > > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. > Anyone else > > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added > interest is > > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility > of giving > > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was > going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups > Click here for > > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups > Click here for > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 06 13:24:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:24:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3037 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:25:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA22444 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:24:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:26:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <006803135210621ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" That's precisely why I wanted to give you an irrational number... They're more trouble than they're worth. You have 0.5 points. 1/7 is equal to precisely 1/7, and the square root of 7 is just that. I would too, except that 58 - the square root of 7 (it's already getting tedious) can't be reduced either. If you want there to be a prohibition of fractions (or irrational numbers), propose it. It doesn't do anyone any good to pretend there already is such a law. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 15:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if > > you want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer > > isn't official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No > > law has been broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement > > in your favor. > > > > --e > so am I to take this to mean that you will record fractional scores > as fractions? to how many decimal places? On what authority > would you round an irrational number, for example. Or would you > not, someone could end the game by giving another player pi > pionts? it seems to me that avoiding such a problem is part of the > reason for the rounding to an integer rule. there is not precedent for > rounding to something other than an integer. > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. > > > > I think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from > > > > one to another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > > efficient. > > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it > > > must be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of > > > scoring, Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could > > > give someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could not > > > be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, no > > > one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which the > > > scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved by > > > default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only > > > > > one > > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, > > > > > > I > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense > > > > > (from > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to > > > > > carry or bring] > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > > > > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick > > > > "don't make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > > > > > Bernardo > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I > > > > > > tried > > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading > > > > the Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in > > > > mind. My understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands > > > > that all official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > > > > provision for exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no > > > > authority to prevent rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working > > > > an a round and expand scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly > > > > .5 points, we could grow the economy with losses to no > one. I > > > > suggested half of your reward for my introduction (which > might > > > > be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. > > > > > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores > > > > > by giving points back and forth and build up points in one score > > > > > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points > > > > back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each > > > > of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour waiting period > > > > would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, patrick, > > > > because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under the > > > > guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's > > > > any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > > > > > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if > > > > you > > desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will > > > > bind you well > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here > > > > in time for 310, Al. > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser > > > > > rather than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say > > > > > respect for > > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws > > > > as a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point > > > > was the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > > > > preferably an office with the power and discretion to avoid > such > > > > idiocies. > > In any case, I believe I should be awarded a full > > > > point from the > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est > > > > tomorrow. Anyone else > who would like to share (literally) a > > > > point with me, I would be > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with > > > > the flu, so I've got nothing better to do than be > > all > > > > pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM Subject: Re: > > > > [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest > > > > is to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the > > > > CURRENT conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the > > > > possibility of giving points without losing points... > > > that > > > > is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > > for > > > > > > more details > > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > > for more details > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981492084/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 13:25:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:24:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 18843 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:24:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 21:24:26 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:24:24 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95pq28+4hdl@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000701c09081$76d315e0$c2a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 8863 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Thank God for original intent!!! At least I'm not dead so you can still ask me. Maybe I had an esoteric meaning in mind... Maybe it just never occured to me. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > This is where it's good to be the eugene. He could simply ignore Paul's > request for the rounding up, and Paul would have nothing to sue over - since > there is no act to call him on. > > But I think that your interpretation of the law, Paul, is a stretch. I > prohibited fractional scoring for getting a law precisely for the reason > that Fritz suggested - the score is being multiplied by a fraction. Things > would get messy that way. But this law in no way implies or requires that > scores achieved under different circumstances should be rounded up. > > Secondly, Fritz, in writing his transfer law clearly could have prohibited > fractional transfers. Since he did not, and moreover since he did himself > transfer a fractional amount to you, then I think that it is safe to say > that his intent was to allow for the possibility of fractional transfers. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:42 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, if you > > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't > > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law has > been > > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. > > > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > > efficient. > > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it must > > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of scoring, > > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the law, > > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to which > > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or bring] > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are taking > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new provision for > > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to prevent > > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and expand > > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up > > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave > > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to > > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 hour > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire > > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or preferably an > > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > In > > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired of > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of me. > > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added interest is > > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe fr From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 13:30:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:30:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 24351 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:31:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16LUfp57727 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:30:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c09083$f664f1a0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <006ac2753190621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:29:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried to > paste somethng. I tried to Cf. this (BTW - Cf. is from another latin word built off of fero, ferre, this time with the prefix "con" [together] added, thus giving the sense of "bring together". Thus it should only be used when referring to multiple passages, and is especially useful when you mean that the sense can be gotten by "bringing together" the various quotes.) According to Kaufmann, Book I of TSZ only has 10 parts. Thereafter, Zarathustra's speeches begin. If you mean that I'm supposed to keep counting after that, well, ok, but that leaves me at "On enjoying and suffering the passions." I did find a nice line there ("You milked your cow, melancholy; now you drink the sweet milk of her udder." I'm going to save this one for my next breakup.) Otherwise, what did you mean... > patrick, since you are too busy reading the Latin dictionary to think I haven't even gotten out the dictionary yet. > I will spell out what I had in mind. I suggested half of your reward for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and build up points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each of our > scores. > I asked you, patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges under the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > Note to Paul: you have my off-list email address. It is helpful to advise hoped-for confederates of your plot, preferably far before you have revealed said plot to the rest of the group. > > ps- as for making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > than the greater Al) > It took me awhile to figure this one out, but then I remembered that when I sent you the original email about joining up, I said that I was "playing Al Gore" by suing after I had lost. > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > I'm not sure that this makes sense. You should obviously have as a first priority those laws which benefit yourself first and foremost. However, it is possible for laws to benefit both yourself and others. If there is any perception that you are trying to profit at the expense of others, it will probably be rather difficult to pass the bill. OTOH, if you succeed in getting bills stopped which will give out points, how in the world will you ever move up? From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 13:32:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:32:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 41345 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:32:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:49:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:41:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:40:55 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:40:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pq28+4hdl@eGroups.com> References: <000701c09081$76d315e0$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <007752749210621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 21:24, f_hemker@h... wrote: I suppose it is hard to invent implied laws when the framers are at there to tell you there intention. > Thank God for original intent!!! At least I'm not dead so you can > still ask me. Maybe I had an esoteric meaning in mind... Maybe it > just never occured to me. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > This is where it's good to be the eugene. He could simply > ignore Paul's > request for the rounding up, and Paul would have > nothing to sue over - since > there is no act to call him on. > > But > I think that your interpretation of the law, Paul, is a stretch. I > > prohibited fractional scoring for getting a law precisely for the > reason > that Fritz suggested - the score is being multiplied by a > fraction. Things > would get messy that way. But this law in no way > implies or requires that > scores achieved under different > circumstances should be rounded up. > > Secondly, Fritz, in writing > his transfer law clearly could have prohibited > fractional transfers. > Since he did not, and moreover since he did himself > transfer a > fractional amount to you, then I think that it is safe to say > that > his intent was to allow for the possibility of fractional transfers. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, > 2001 3:42 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go > fight it in court, if you > > want... Fritz is the current judge. > Then again, your transfer isn't > > official until tomorrow, and might > not ever get recorded... No law has > been > > broken, so there's not > much chance of getting a judgement in your favor. > > > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: > Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at > 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > The evil specter of > inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > Only points gained > from getting rules passed cannot be fractional. I > > > > think that > otherwise, especially in the sending of points from one to > > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a > rule. Right? > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters > woudl be even more > > > efficient. > > > but at present there is no > such rule. > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. > The rules as > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. > They offer a > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to > me that the > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal > points. For now it must > > > be assumed that rounding is essential > to the efficiency of scoring, > > > Otherwise no roundng would be > permitted and a player could give > > > someone an irrational number > of (in the mathematical sense) > > > points and the game could not > continue because the scoring could > > > not be completed. Without > the expressed provison for it in the law, > > > no one has the > authority to determine the number of digits to which > > > the scoring > should be carried out. This problem can only be solved > > > by > default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > On > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. > Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > Please explain your > understanding. As far as I see it, the only one > > > > > > who can > give points without losing them is Eugene. Otherwise, I > > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense (from > > > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or > bring] > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you > are taking > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in > another. Hence, > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical > absurdity. > > > > Patrick "don't > > > > make me bust out Cassel's > Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > Bernardo > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ > I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried > > > > to > > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading the > > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in mind. My > > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > provision for > > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no > authority to prevent > > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > > working an a round and expand > > > > scheme. Thus if you could give > me > exactly .5 points, we could grow > > > > the economy with losses > to no > one. I suggested half of your reward > > > > for my > introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the real > > > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep > > > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and > build up > > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. > I.e, If i gave > > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they > woudl be doubled to > > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am > pretty sure the 24 hour > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > > up anyway. > I asked you, > > > > patrick, because of the > possiblity of starting these exchanges under > > > > the guise of a > gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as for > > > > making you > attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > that's any > > > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made you > > > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > > desire > > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind > you well > > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here > in time for 310, Al. > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have > turned you into the lesser rather > > > > > than the greater Al) > > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for > > > > the law, but > "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage > on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as > > > > a > method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the point was > > > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > preferably an > > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > > such idiocies. > > In > > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded > a full point from the > > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly > 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone else > > > > > who would like to share > (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > > grateful. > > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got nothing > > > > better to do > than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) ----- > > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland To: > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > > PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am > sure everyone is tired of > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of > your points are because of me. > > > > You could give > > > others the > same split, but the added interest is > > > > to get me to > > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > Scatterbrains > community. > > > > > > My understanding of the CURRENT > > > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of giving > > > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was > going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, > send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! > Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now > Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this > group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe fr > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981494705/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 13:44:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 21:44:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 47092 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:44:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 21:44:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:44:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:02:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:54:12 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 15:54:12 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:54:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001d01c09083$f664f1a0$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <006422002220621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 16:29, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: patrick good luck with the flu: clarification I realized the origin and meaning of Cf. as confer, but it can be used to suggest that you consider the reference along with the text to which it is a note. I have been operating under the convention of referring to the Parts of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and One Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting and pasting footnotes from something... Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on the uses of compounds of ferre, fero. Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily lessons in Scatterbrains land. And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I tried to > > paste somethng. > > I tried to Cf. this (BTW - Cf. is from another latin word built off of > fero, ferre, this time with the prefix "con" [together] added, thus > giving the sense of "bring together". Thus it should only be used > when referring to multiple passages, and is especially useful when you > mean that the sense can be gotten by "bringing together" the various > quotes.) According to Kaufmann, Book I of TSZ only has 10 parts. > Thereafter, Zarathustra's speeches begin. If you mean that I'm > supposed to keep counting after that, well, ok, but that leaves me at > "On enjoying and suffering the passions." I did find a nice line > there ("You milked your cow, melancholy; now you drink the sweet milk > of her udder." I'm going to save this one for my next breakup.) > > Otherwise, what did you mean... > > > > patrick, since you are too busy reading the Latin dictionary to > > think > > I haven't even gotten out the dictionary yet. > > > I will spell out what I had in mind. I suggested half of your > > reward for > my introduction (which > > might be taken back) to veil the real reason for half points. > > > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan to keep expanding both scores by > > giving points back and forth and build up points in one score with a > > deal to give some back. I.e, If i gave all of your points back a > > half at a time they woudl be doubled to one point in each of our > > scores. I asked you, patrick, because of the possiblity of starting > > these > exchanges under the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > Note to Paul: you have my off-list email address. It is helpful to > advise hoped-for confederates of your plot, preferably far before you > have revealed said plot to the rest of the group. > > > > ps- as for making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > > that's any concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > > made you have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if > > > you desire to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind > > > you well enough. > > > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for 310, Al. > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser rather > > than the greater Al) > > > > It took me awhile to figure this one out, but then I remembered that > when I sent you the original email about joining up, I said that I was > "playing Al Gore" by suing after I had lost. > > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern for > > GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of those > > laws. > > > I'm not sure that this makes sense. You should obviously have as a > first priority those laws which benefit yourself first and foremost. > However, it is possible for laws to benefit both yourself and others. > If there is any perception that you are trying to profit at the > expense of others, it will probably be rather difficult to pass the > bill. OTOH, if you succeed in getting bills stopped which will give > out points, how in the world will you ever move up? > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981495052/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 14:00:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 22:00:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 10462 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 22:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 22:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:00:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f16M09k93637 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:00:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004401c09088$14d306a0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <006422002220621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:59:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > patrick good luck with the flu: > I think it's reached my brain. > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the Parts > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and > One Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting and > pasting footnotes from something... > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count the Prologue? > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on the > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > Might be interesting and informative. > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > lessons in Scatterbrains land. My little life spent with the flu Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for another. From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 06 14:16:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 22:16:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 40990 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 22:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 22:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:16:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2001 22:16:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 22:16:39 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <95pt47+cuiv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <004401c09088$14d306a0$c2a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1359 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule punishing off topic discussion... ;-p Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > I think it's reached my brain. > > > > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the Parts > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and > > One Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting and > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count the > Prologue? > > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on the > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > lessons in Scatterbrains land. > > My little life spent with the flu > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > > > And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for an From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 14:18:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 22:18:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 36748 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 22:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 22:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:18:03 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:35:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 16:27:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 16:27:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:27:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004401c09088$14d306a0$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <007353035220621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 16:59, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > I think it's reached my brain. > > > > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the Parts > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and One > > Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to copy > > an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting and > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count the > Prologue? > it is part of part one, but a prologue to its sections. Like, Preface, chapter *1*, etc. For citation puposes I have used TSZ Prologue 5, for example, as I have used BGE Preface. The only other way to do this would be to count it as Zarathustra's prologue not the prologue to the book, but in TSZ Prologue 5, Nietzsche writes, "here ended Z's first speech which is called "the Prologue" but the Prologue to the book continues. BTW, if you are really having fun, cf. TSZ Prologue 6-10 and Clouds, Apology (Republic, Phaedo) > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on the > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > lessons in Scatterbrains land. > > My little life spent with the flu > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > A full day's lessons offered > > And who says the purpose of the laws is not *to* educate.(we can't have a good school with bad grammar > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for another. > Thank you for responding to rhetorical questions. See other mail > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981496854/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 06 14:36:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 6 Feb 2001 22:36:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 10335 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 22:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2001 22:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 22:36:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:53:50 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 16:45:41 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Feb 01 16:45:35 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:45:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95pt47+cuiv@eGroups.com> References: <004401c09088$14d306a0$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <005d45053220621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" sOn 6 Feb 01, at 22:16, f_hemker@h... wrote: > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > punishing off topic discussion... > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more precise expression of law)? > ;-p > > Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > I think it's reached > my brain. > > > > I have been operating under the convention of > referring to the Parts > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On > the Thousand and > > One Goals." However, this was an accidental > paste when I tried to > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the > clipboard from a cutting and > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count > the > Prologue? > > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the > Latin lesson, perhpas > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you > could organizing a mini > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all > know that) lesson on the > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > Someone needs to quote > from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > lessons in Scatterbrains > land. > > My little life spent with the flu > Is rounded with a sleep. > Sir, I am vex'd; > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > Be > not disturb'd with my infirmity: > > > And who says the purpose of the > laws is not educate. > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for an > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981497832/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 16:38:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_2_1); 7 Feb 2001 00:38:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 33080 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 00:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 00:38:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.190]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f170cpk97472 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:38:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c0909e$3fb912e0$bea811d0@computer> To: References: <95pt47+cuiv@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:38:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Well now, if there were a CM around, perhaps we could have such a rule. ;-p right back at you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:16 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > punishing off topic discussion... > > ;-p > > Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > > > I think it's reached my brain. > > > > > > > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the > Parts > > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and > > > One Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to > > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting > and > > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count > the > > Prologue? > > > > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas > > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini > > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on > the > > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > > > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > > lessons in Scatterbrains land. > > > > My little life spent with the flu > > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; > > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > > Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > > > > > And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > > > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for an > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Tue Feb 06 18:08:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 02:08:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 67540 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 02:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 02:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 02:08:27 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1735lB23843 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:05:48 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id VAA22209; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:08:26 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains In-Reply-To: 909e3fb X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1321@w...> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:08:26 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... There is a moderator(sitting at Andy's) From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 06 18:26:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 02:26:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 33873 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 02:26:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 02:26:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 02:26:24 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f172QLk59839 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:26:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c090ad$44208de0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1321@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:25:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > There is a moderator(sitting at Andy's) > ? Have another, Eug. From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 05:17:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 13:17:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 92760 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18446 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KTZ0>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:12:07 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D4@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:12:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09107.92271F90" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09107.92271F90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Watch who you are calling a techno-geek you you..... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:29 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy Paul, Is there a way that your email reader can include the replied to message as well as your response? It can often make life easier. If you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can say which one you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this city can help you out. p. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09107.92271F90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Watch=20 who you are calling a techno-geek you you.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001= 1:29=20 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] A suggestion to the new guy

Paul,
 
Is there a way that your email reader ca= n include=20 the replied to message as well as your response?  It can often make = life=20 easier.  If you're unsure how to do with your mail reader, you can s= ay=20 which one you are using, and I'm sure one of the techno-geeks in this cit= y can=20 help you out.
 
p.


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C09107.92271F90-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 05:36:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 13:36:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 32266 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 13:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 13:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 13:36:31 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19530 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:36:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT5A>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:31:29 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D5@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:31:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0910A.4675F550" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0910A.4675F550 Content-Type: text/plain Play the game Harding -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 7:38 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Well now, if there were a CM around, perhaps we could have such a rule. ;-p right back at you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:16 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > punishing off topic discussion... > > ;-p > > Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > > > I think it's reached my brain. > > > > > > > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the > Parts > > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and > > > One Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to > > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a cutting > and > > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count > the > > Prologue? > > > > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, perhpas > > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could organizing a mini > > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all know that) lesson on > the > > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > > > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > > lessons in Scatterbrains land. > > > > My little life spent with the flu > > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; > > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > > Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > > > > > And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > > > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for an > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Classmates.com Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0910A.4675F550 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Play=20 the game Harding
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001= 7:38=20 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for=20 scatterbrains

Well now, if there were a CM around= ,=20 perhaps we could have such a rule.

;-p right back at you.

-= ----=20 Original Message -----
From: <f_hemker@h...>
To:=20 <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001= 5:16=20 PM
Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for=20 scatterbrains


> As edifying as this all may be... perhaps t= here=20 should be a rule
> punishing off topic discussion...
>
&= gt;=20 ;-p
>
> Fritz
> --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D.= =20 Bernardo" <bernardo@c...>
> wrote:
> > > patrick= good=20 luck with the flu:
> > >
> > I think it's reached my= =20 brain.
> >
> >
> > > I have been operatin= g=20 under the convention of referring to the
> Parts
> > >= of=20 TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and
> > &g= t;=20 One Goals."  However, this was an accidental paste when I tried=20 to
> > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard = from=20 a cutting
> and
> > > pasting footnotes from=20 something...
> > >
> > So wait - and I don't mean th= is=20 facetiously - why don't you count
> the
> > Prologue?
= >=20 >
> > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Lati= n=20 lesson, perhpas
> > > we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or = you=20 could organizing a mini
> > > Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc.,= but=20 we all know that) lesson on
> the
> > > uses of compou= nds=20 of ferre, fero.
> > >
> > Might be interesting and=20 informative.
> >
> > > Someone needs to quote from= =20 Shakespeare to round out our daily
> > > lessons in Scatterbr= ains=20 land.
> >
> > My little life spent with the flu
>= ;=20 > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd;
> > Bear with my= =20 weakness; my, brain is troubled:
> > Be not disturb'd with my=20 infirmity:
> >
> > > And who says the purpose of th= e=20 laws is not educate.
> > >
> > Meletus, for one.&nbs= p;=20 Thrasymachus, for an
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe fr= om=20 this group, send an email to:
>=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>=20



To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C0910A.4675F550-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 06:28:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 14:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 68581 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 14:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 14:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 14:28:17 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23358 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT5H>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:23:16 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D7@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Proposal Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:23:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Eug Can you please resend your proposal I must have deleted it by mistake. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 06:59:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 14:59:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 61484 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 14:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 14:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 14:59:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA26248 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:59:42 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:01:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95pf38+frt5@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I don't really have any objections to votes of confidence, but I'm not sure if it's necessary to write it into the proposal. After all, you could call one every 10 turns if you want to. I'll have to be sold on the reason for a term limit. I don't really see any. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > Instead of having the score keeper's tenure last until a majority > objected, why don't you allow for periodic votes of confidence? You > might have regularily scheduled votes of confidence where a majority > must agree to keep the person in office, say every 10 turns, plus the > option of getting rid of the person at an earlier point if need be. > > How about adding a term limit of some kind? Say, no more than 15 or > 20 consecutive turns as score keeper. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Scorekeeper: > > > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of > maintaining > > and reporting the official score of the game. > > > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a > player's score > > within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. > Any > > disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business > days of > > the report. > > > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, > each > > corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the > date, the > > player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, > and the > > positive or negative score adjustment. > > > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid > by the > > population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point > from each > > player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. > A poll > > shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each > player > > shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff > election, > > conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. > > > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and > indisputable > > after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his > discression, make > > adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute > period. > > > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. > If a > > majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, > a new > > one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper > is > > entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such > time as a > > new > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:11:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:11:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 11793 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:11:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:11:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:11:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA27482 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:11:49 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:13:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95pohd+3cl6@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ... > > I can see that we really need a scorekeeper for this sort of thing. > However, I find it difficult to support any office that does not have > a terminal point of tenure. If this is really a sticking point for you, though I'm curious why, it can be put in. I'm not sure why a scorekeeper would be needed for "this sort of thing" He would deduct .5 from your score, add .5 to Paul's (which I'm about to do) and life would go on. Paul could appeal to him(the scorekeeper) to round up, but if he did and someone didn't like it, the decision would go to the judge. Likewise, if the scorekeeper refused Paul could call for judgement. The one nice thing is that there's a system by which the score is made "official" so that if Paul claims have the extra half point, we can all look at the official score and see that he doesn't without having to read over the 50 messages from yesterday. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in court, > if you > > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer isn't > > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law > has been > > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your > favor. > > > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be > fractional. I > > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from > one to > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > > efficient. > > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now it > must > > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of > scoring, > > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the > law, > > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to > which > > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be > solved > > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > On > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the > only one > > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. > Otherwise, I > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense > (from > > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry or > bring] > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are > taking > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick > "don't > > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > > Bernardo > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I > tried > > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy reading > the > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in > mind. My > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > provision for > > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to > prevent > > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and > expand > > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we could > grow > > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your > reward > > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the > real > > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan > to keep > > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and > build up > > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If i > gave > > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be doubled > to > > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 > hour > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked > you, > > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges > under > > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as > for > > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > > that's any > > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > made > you > > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > > desire > > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for > 310, Al. > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser > rather > > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say respect > for > > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all > laws as > > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my opponents > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the > point was > > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > preferably an > > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > > In > > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. Anyone > else > > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would be > > > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got > nothing > > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) > ----- > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > > PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is tired > of > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of > me. > > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added > interest is > > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the > CURRENT > > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of > giving > > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was > going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > here for > > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > here for > > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this g > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:17:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 17649 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28027 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:17:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:18:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95pq28+4hdl@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > Thank God for original intent!!! At least I'm not dead so you can > still ask me. Maybe I had an esoteric meaning in mind... Maybe it > just never occured to me. > > -Fritz Too bad original intent doesn't carry any weight. Judges don't have to use it, and future judges can ignore any other judges precedent. Once again there oughta be a law (TOBAL?) --e > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > This is where it's good to be the eugene. He could simply ignore > Paul's > > request for the rounding up, and Paul would have nothing to sue over > - since > > there is no act to call him on. > > > > But I think that your interpretation of the law, Paul, is a stretch. > I > > prohibited fractional scoring for getting a law precisely for the > reason > > that Fritz suggested - the score is being multiplied by a fraction. > Things > > would get messy that way. But this law in no way implies or > requires that > > scores achieved under different circumstances should be rounded up. > > > > Secondly, Fritz, in writing his transfer law clearly could have > prohibited > > fractional transfers. Since he did not, and moreover since he did > himself > > transfer a fractional amount to you, then I think that it is safe to > say > > that his intent was to allow for the possibility of fractional > transfers. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:42 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > Implied presence of a law doesn't mean shit. Go fight it in > court, if you > > > want... Fritz is the current judge. Then again, your transfer > isn't > > > official until tomorrow, and might not ever get recorded... No law > has > > been > > > broken, so there's not much chance of getting a judgement in your > favor. > > > > > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 3:12 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 Feb 01, at 19:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > > > The evil specter of inflation raises its ugly head. > > > > > > > > > > Only points gained from getting rules passed cannot be > fractional. I > > > > > think that otherwise, especially in the sending of points from > one to > > > > > another, they are divisable. > > > > > > > > > > Somebody ought to pass a rule. Right? > > > > > > > > Right. An authority to govern such matters woudl be even more > > > > efficient. > > > > but at present there is no such rule. > > > > > > > > But for now it is a question of interpretation. The rules as > > > > expressed do not leave room for fractional points. They offer a > > > > provison to preclude fractional points. It seems to me that the > > > > intention of the laws is to avoid fractioinal points. For now > it must > > > > be assumed that rounding is essential to the efficiency of > scoring, > > > > Otherwise no roundng would be permitted and a player could give > > > > someone an irrational number of (in the mathematical sense) > > > > points and the game could not continue because the scoring could > > > > not be completed. Without the expressed provison for it in the > law, > > > > no one has the authority to determine the number of digits to > which > > > > the scoring should be carried out. This problem can only be > solved > > > > by default to the implied preference of the law for rounding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > On > > > > > 6 Feb 01, at 13:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > . > > > > > Paul: > > > > > > > > > Please explain your understanding. As far as I see it, the > only one > > > > > > > who can give points without losing them is Eugene. > Otherwise, I > > > > > > > imagine that we are to read "transfer" in the literal sense > (from > > > > > > > Latin trans [=over] and the stem from fero ferre [to carry > or bring] > > > > > > > thus to bring or carry over.) It denotes that you are > taking > > > > > > > something from one place, and putting it in another. Hence, > > > > > > > > transferre ex nihilio is a logical absurdity. > > > > Patrick > "don't > > > > > make me bust out Cassel's Latin Dictionary on your ass" > > > Bernardo > > > > > > > > (Cf. TSZ I.15). This might be fun, but was an accident, I > tried > > > > > to > paste somethng. > patrick, since you are too busy > reading the > > > > > Latin dictionary to think > I will spell out what I had in > mind. My > > > > > understanding is that the > spirit of the law demands that all > > > > > official scoring be done in whole > numbers, but the new > provision for > > > > > exchange permits fractions. (I a > also see no authority to > prevent > > > > > rounding up fractional gifts) I was > working an a round and > expand > > > > > scheme. Thus if you could give me > exactly .5 points, we > could grow > > > > > the economy with losses to no > one. I suggested half of your > reward > > > > > for my introduction (which > might be taken back) to veil the > real > > > > > reason for half points. > > Originally I hoped to hatch a plan > to keep > > > > > expanding both scores > by giving points back and forth and > build up > > > > > points in one score > with a deal to give some back. I.e, If > i gave > > > > > all of your points back > a half at a time they woudl be > doubled to > > > > > one point in each of our > scores. > I am pretty sure the 24 > hour > > > > > waiting period would have screwed this > up anyway. > I asked > you, > > > > > patrick, because of the possiblity of starting these exchanges > under > > > > > the guise of a gift of joining points, but o well > > > ps- as > for > > > > > making you attached to the laws, well, I'm not sure why > > > that's any > > > > > concern of mine. First of all, the Man, who would have > > > made you > > > > > have respect for the law, was voted down. Secondly, if you > > > desire > > > > > to win, or at least have a little fun, that will bind you well > > > > > > > > enough. > > > As to the MAN too bad was not here in time for > 310, Al. > > > > > > (unfortunately it appears to have turned you into the lesser > rather > > > > > > than the greater Al) > > As to the laws, I did not say > respect for > > > > > the law, but "concern for > GOOD law, at my current state of > > > > > disadvantage on points, I am > encouraged to vote agaisnt all > laws as > > > > > a method of scoring points > and keeping them from my > opponents > > > > > regardless of the wisdom of > those laws. > > Primarily the > point was > > > > > the need to close this loophole by either > clarity or > preferably an > > > > > office with the power and discretion to avoid > such idiocies. > > > In > > > > > any case, I believe I should be awarded a full point from the > > > > > > > rounding of Fritz's gift at exactly 1200 est tomorrow. > Anyone else > > > > > > who would like to share (literally) a point with me, I would > be > > > > > > grateful. > > > > (I'm home sick with the flu, so I've got > nothing > > > > > better to do than be > > all pedantic. I can't really work.) > ----- > > > > > Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 1:40 > > > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider giving me points. I am sure everyone is > tired of > > > > > hearing > > > my pleas, but some of your points are because of > me. > > > > > You could give > > > others the same split, but the added > interest is > > > > > to get me to > > > concern myself with the good laws of the > > > > > Scatterbrains community. > > > > > > My understanding of the > CURRENT > > > > > conventions regarding scoring > > > suggest the possibility of > giving > > > > > points without losing points... > > > that is where I was > going... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > here for > > > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981485836/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > here for > > > > > more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981488814/ > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe fr > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:19:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:19:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 53313 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:19:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:19:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:19:46 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28262 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:19:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001d01c09083$f664f1a0$c2a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" <<< Mucho off topic snippage >>>> > It took me awhile to figure this one out, but then I remembered > that when I > sent you the original email about joining up, I said that I was > "playing Al > Gore" by suing after I had lost. HA! > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern for > > GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of > > those laws. This should be fun... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:23:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:23:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 28821 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:24:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28607 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:23:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:24:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95pt47+cuiv@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Well said fritz. > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > punishing off topic discussion... > > ;-p > > Fritz From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:36:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:36:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 73758 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:37:30 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00122 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:36:25 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:38:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <005d45053220621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > > punishing off topic discussion... > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" Forgiven... > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > educ. > Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would be glad to > tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to punish. > how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day > discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in Nomic (or > that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more precise > expression of law)? Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of that role, but it's there. List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite first, then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do hesitantly wear that hat. --e From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 07:44:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 15:44:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 21813 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 15:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:44:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00983 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:44:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:45:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D7@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Resent- It's also available in the highly experimental Proposals page. www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:23 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal > > > Eug > Can you please resend your proposal I must have deleted it by > mistake. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 09:17:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 17:17:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 66729 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 17:17:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 17:17:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 18:18:24 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10768 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:17:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT61>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:12:15 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D8@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:12:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.1DEF42C0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.1DEF42C0 Content-Type: text/plain Yea thanks I just had to reset my connection from this email address. I can now view the page. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:46 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Resent- It's also available in the highly experimental Proposals page. www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:23 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal > > > Eug > Can you please resend your proposal I must have deleted it by > mistake. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.1DEF42C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yea=20 thanks I just had to reset my connection from this email address. I can now= view=20 the page.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:= 46=20 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains]=20 Proposal

Resent-
     = ;=20 It's also available in the highly experimental Proposals=20 page.
www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html

> -----Original=20 Message-----
> From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February= 07,=20 2001 9:23 AM
> To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject:= =20 [scatterbrains] Proposal
>
>
> Eug
>=20       Can you please resend your proposal I must= have=20 deleted it by
> mistake.
>
>
> * NOTICE * - If = the=20 reader is not the specified recipient of this
> confidential email,= you=20 are hereby notified that any distribution
> or copying
> of = this=20 transmission is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the specifie= d=20 recipient, please notify us at
> webmaster@e....= =20
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this gro= up,=20 send an email to:
> scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>=20
>
>


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.1DEF42C0-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 09:20:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 17:20:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3551 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 17:19:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 17:19:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 18:20:29 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10988 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:19:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT6F>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:14:23 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372D9@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:14:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.6919F790" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.6919F790 Content-Type: text/plain Just play the game, or go make some iced tea -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:25 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Well said fritz. > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > punishing off topic discussion... > > ;-p > > Fritz Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Business information Click here for Business information To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.6919F790 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just=20 play the game, or go make some iced tea
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:= 25=20 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for=20 scatterbrains

Well said fritz.

> As edi= fying=20 as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule
> punishing o= ff=20 topic discussion...
>
> ;-p
>
>=20 Fritz



To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C09129.6919F790-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 09:26:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 17:26:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27077 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 17:25:41 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11664 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT62>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:20:34 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DA@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:20:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0912A.478C39C0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0912A.478C39C0 Content-Type: text/plain Any penalty for not doing the job? I don't mind paying but if the score keeper doesn't update the score well then I think that person should be penalized . -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:46 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Resent- It's also available in the highly experimental Proposals page. www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 9:23 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal > > > Eug > Can you please resend your proposal I must have deleted it by > mistake. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0912A.478C39C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Any=20 penalty for not doing the job? I don't mind paying but if the score keeper= =20 doesn't update the score well then I think that person should be penalized= =20 .
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:= 46=20 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains]=20 Proposal

Resent-
     = ;=20 It's also available in the highly experimental Proposals=20 page.
www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html

> -----Original=20 Message-----
> From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February= 07,=20 2001 9:23 AM
> To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject:= =20 [scatterbrains] Proposal
>
>
> Eug
>=20       Can you please resend your proposal I must= have=20 deleted it by
> mistake.
>
>
> * NOTICE * - If = the=20 reader is not the specified recipient of this
> confidential email,= you=20 are hereby notified that any distribution
> or copying
> of = this=20 transmission is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the specifie= d=20 recipient, please notify us at
> webmaster@e....= =20
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this gro= up,=20 send an email to:
> scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>=20
>
>


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C0912A.478C39C0-- From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 09:41:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 17:41:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 76625 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 17:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 17:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 17:40:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA13103 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:40:14 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:41:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09103.57ACB680" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DA@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09103.57ACB680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was thinking he should be replaced... I suppose there could be a penalty, let's say 1 point for each day past the second day. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 12:21 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal Any penalty for not doing the job? I don't mind paying but if the score keeper doesn't update the score well then I think that person should be penalized . ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09103.57ACB680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was=20 thinking he should be replaced... I suppose there could be a penalty, let's= say=20 1 point for each day past the second day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, Februa= ry=20 07, 2001 12:21 PM
To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 Proposal

Any=20 penalty for not doing the job? I don't mind paying but if the score keepe= r=20 doesn't update the score well then I think that person should be penalize= d=20 .
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09103.57ACB680-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 10:21:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 18:21:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 8337 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 18:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 18:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:20:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:37:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 12:29:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 12:29:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:29:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000d01c0909e$3fb912e0$bea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <007b01037180721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Feb 01, at 19:38, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Well now, if there were a CM around, perhaps we could have such a > rule. > > ;-p right back at you. We don't need the CM, but we need an office with more power. i missed it if there were attempts to limit this hombre's power and perhaps make futuire CM's elected, but does anyone else want to work on that > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:16 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > > punishing off topic discussion... > > > > ;-p > > > > Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > > patrick good luck with the flu: > > > > > > > I think it's reached my brain. > > > > > > > > > > I have been operating under the convention of referring to the > > Parts > > > > of TSZ by Roman numerals so TSZ I.15 is "On the Thousand and One > > > > Goals." However, this was an accidental paste when I tried to > > > > copy an earlier email, it was left on the clipboard from a > > > > cutting > > and > > > > pasting footnotes from something... > > > > > > > So wait - and I don't mean this facetiously - why don't you count > > the > > > Prologue? > > > > > > > Otherwise I am sure all are grateful for the Latin lesson, > > > > perhpas we should all Cf. Cf. and transfer, or you could > > > > organizing a mini Nomic (from Gr. for laws, etc., but we all > > > > know that) lesson on > > the > > > > uses of compounds of ferre, fero. > > > > > > > Might be interesting and informative. > > > > > > > Someone needs to quote from Shakespeare to round out our daily > > > > lessons in Scatterbrains land. > > > > > > My little life spent with the flu > > > Is rounded with a sleep. Sir, I am vex'd; > > > Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: > > > Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: > > > > > > > And who says the purpose of the laws is not educate. > > > > > > > Meletus, for one. Thrasymachus, for an > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981506337/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 11:21:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 19:21:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 99491 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:20:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 19:20:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:20:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA24254 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:20:54 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Pimp-slap of Reality Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:22:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Sorry about that... I really didn't mean to come off threatening, or whatever, but on second read, it sounds like a coup attempt. Just to clarify: I have never, and will never, use my position as real-world moderator to my advantage, or to anyone else's disadvantage in the game. I'd never ban a legitimate player, or delete a post. I only said what I said to stress a point that Pat keeps making: There are existing inequalities in the 'power' structure here. Everything not illegal is legal, and there are things I can get away with that you can't. > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > > > punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > Forgiven... > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > educ. > > Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would be glad to > > tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to punish. > > how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would > > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day > > discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day > > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in Nomic (or > > that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more precise > > expression of law)? > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is > being played > on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power wasn't given > by law, and > I've been trying to minimize my use of that role, but it's there. > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite first, then > ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we can be a self > governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do hesitantly wear that hat. > --e > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 12:15:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:15:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 58881 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:15:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:32:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:24:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:24:29 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:24:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <95pf38+frt5@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <007842832200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. I think it is a good idea. I repeat my emphatic opposition to term limits. From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 12:24:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:24:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 86976 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:24:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:41:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:33:27 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:33:20 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:33:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <95pq28+4hdl@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008b02341200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" it doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of weight. It was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped my claim. Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its implied preference for whole numbers. Any judge that ignored Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would have been grossly irresponsible Since the authors of 311 and 306 both explained their strange intentions (as well as the fact that at least 3 of you rejected my interpretation), I stopped the claim. P.S Anyone got a half point. From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 12:28:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:28:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 22437 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:28:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:45:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:37:27 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:36:58 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:36:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d01c09083$f664f1a0$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008d12345200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 10:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > <<< Mucho off topic snippage >>>> > > > It took me awhile to figure this one out, but then I remembered that > > when I sent you the original email about joining up, I said that I > > was "playing Al Gore" by suing after I had lost. > > HA! > > > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern > > > for GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > > > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > > > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of > > > those laws. > > This should be fun... > Request for clarification: What should be fun? my voting against everything or the game shoudl be fun and thus my incentive regardless of points > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981559194/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 12:31:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:31:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 11278 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:31:33 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:48:51 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:40:55 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 14:40:52 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:40:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <005d45053220621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008ca5148200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > > > punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > Forgiven... > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would be > > glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to punish. > > how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would mentioning > > the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day discussion of > > Plato. Might one not argue that his all day discussion of Plato was > > for the sake of legal principles in Nomic (or that his Latin > > clarifaction were for the sake of more precise expression of law)? > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is being > played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power wasn't > given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of that role, > but it's there. > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite first, > then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we can be a > self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do hesitantly wear > that hat. > --e > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981560187/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 12:35:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:35:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 20173 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:36:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f17KZik46647 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002d01c09145$74292b80$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: <005d45053220621ISWEBNT@d...> <008ca5148200721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? Vid. current proposal. From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 12:36:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:36:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 22500 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:37:34 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03231 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:36:29 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008d12345200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > As to the laws, I did not say respect for the law, but "concern > > > > for GOOD law, at my current state of disadvantage on points, I am > > > > encouraged to vote agaisnt all laws as a method of scoring points > > > > and keeping them from my opponents regardless of the wisdom of > > > > those laws. > > > > This should be fun... > > > Request for clarification: What should be fun? my voting against > everything or the game shoudl be fun and thus my incentive > regardless of points Touche. I had intended the first. I meant it will be interresting to see you play with that strategy, esp. since you stated it publicly... 204 makes that strategy quite profitable, but I think the do-gooders among us (myself included) would repeal it rather quickly. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 12:39:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:39:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 52565 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:39:09 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f17Kd7k46898 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:39:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501c09145$ecee8740$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: <95pf38+frt5@eGroups.com> <007842832200721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:38:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed > grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. I > think it is a good idea. > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that after, say 20 turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a vote, but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one concurring opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn limit would start from the previous vote. This'll make it more of a strategic decision when to call votes. From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 12:41:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:41:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 40282 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03909 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:41:34 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:43:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008ca5148200721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a rule > > > > punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > > > Forgiven... > > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would be > > > glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to punish. > > > how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would mentioning > > > the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day discussion of > > > Plato. Might one not argue that his all day discussion of Plato was > > > for the sake of legal principles in Nomic (or that his Latin > > > clarifaction were for the sake of more precise expression of law)? > > > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is being > > played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power wasn't > > given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of that role, > > but it's there. > > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite first, > > then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we can be a > > self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do hesitantly wear > > that hat. > > --e > > > > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? Where did that come from? I've never opposed it. I've been legislating toward totally shared responsibilities. I even voted for the evil Chief Magistrate. --e From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 12:47:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:47:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 54472 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:48:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04721 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:47:26 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:49:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <003501c09145$ecee8740$d3a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" How about "A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there has not been a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an automatic VOC is called." ? It's acceptable to me. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed > > grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. I > > think it is a good idea. > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that after, say 20 > turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a vote, > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one concurring > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > limit would > start from the previous vote. This'll make it more of a > strategic decision > when to call votes. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 12:49:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:49:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 57682 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:49:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f17KnWk47904 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:49:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005b01c09147$61546400$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:48:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" That's much more concise than my version. (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > How about "A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If > there has not been a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an automatic VOC is > called." ? It's acceptable to me. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. I > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that after, say 20 > > turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a vote, > > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one concurring > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > > limit would > > start from the previous vote. This'll make it more of a > > strategic decision > > when to call votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 12:51:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:51:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 87596 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:52:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:08:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:00:46 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:00:19 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:00:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <008ca5148200721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a > > > > > rule punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > > > > > Forgiven... > > > > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would > > > > be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to > > > > punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would > > > > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day > > > > discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day > > > > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in > > > > Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more > > > > precise expression of law)? > > > > > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is > > > being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power > > > wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of > > > that role, but it's there. > > > > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite > > > first, then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we > > > can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do > > > hesitantly wear that hat. > > > --e > > > > > > > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? > > Where did that come from? I've never opposed it. I've been > legislating toward totally shared responsibilities. I even voted for > the evil Chief Magistrate. > > --e My mistake I wasnt't here, I did not check the voting record. The current proposal would indeed go in this direction; I only think it should be stronger (ah, maybe later) I think we are have a misunderstanding becasue you aeem to have been so insistent that all of these contigencies are already taken care of and that there are not areas (such as my fractional point nonsense) in need of greater authority to settle disputes. This was my real point, or test, anyway. I just needed a ground to stand on to test it. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981578496/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 12:55:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 20:55:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 75701 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 20:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:55:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA05771 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:55:13 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <005b01c09147$61546400$d3a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Fritz- Would you accept a periodic vote of confidence in lieu of a term limit? > > That's much more concise than my version. > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) Like Darth Vader. > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. > If > > there has not been a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an > automatic VOC is > > called." ? It's acceptable to me. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed > > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. > I > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that > after, say > 20 > > > turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a > vote, > > > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > concurring > > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > > > limit would > > > start from the previous vote. This'll make it more of a > > > strategic decision > > > when to call votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:00:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 14561 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:18:11 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:10:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:10:10 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:10:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005b01c09147$61546400$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <007fe1118210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 15:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: Sounds good to me. I could go shorter on the term (even 10 turns). 20 could easily get someone from here to 200, so it is not much of a limit. PB is not really pullin numbers from the "air" > > That's much more concise than my version. > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any > > time. > If > > there has not been a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an automatic > > VOC is called." ? It's acceptable to me. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an > > > > expressed grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting > > > > on such a vote. > I > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that > > > after, say > 20 > > > turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for > > > a > vote, > > > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > > > concurring opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The > > > new 20 turn limit would start from the previous vote. This'll > > > make it more of a strategic decision when to call votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981578977/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 13:03:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:03:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 98192 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:03:17 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f17L3Gk49322 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:03:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007601c09149$4c98db20$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like Darth Vader. > Yes! You read my mind. Bringing order to the universe is really a noble undertaking. So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a couple of Ewoks. All part of a days work, really. And those Ewoks aren't really what they seem. Under that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a vicious, malicious beast, hostile to all order and good sense. From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:04:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 24060 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:04:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA07045 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:04:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:05:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:00 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a > > > > > > rule punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > > > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > > > > > > > Forgiven... > > > > > > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > > > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would > > > > > be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to > > > > > punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would > > > > > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day > > > > > discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day > > > > > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in > > > > > Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more > > > > > precise expression of law)? > > > > > > > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is > > > > being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power > > > > wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of > > > > that role, but it's there. > > > > > > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite > > > > first, then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we > > > > can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do > > > > hesitantly wear that hat. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? > > > > Where did that come from? I've never opposed it. I've been > > legislating toward totally shared responsibilities. I even voted for > > the evil Chief Magistrate. > > > > --e > > My mistake I wasnt't here, I did not check the voting record. > The current proposal would indeed go in this direction; I only think > it should be stronger (ah, maybe later) > > I think we are have a misunderstanding becasue you aeem to have > been so insistent that all of these contigencies are already taken > care of and that there are not areas (such as my fractional point > nonsense) in need of greater authority to settle disputes. This was > my real point, or test, anyway. I just needed a ground to stand on > to test it. To me it's a simple matter. If it's not in the rules, it's not a rule. There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling in the judge, because he can't write law. I think you may end up tripping on your poly-sci background if you expect things like "implied preference" and "original intent" to mean anything to the 3 techies who make up half the population. From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 13:06:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:06:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 6583 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:07:33 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07427 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:06:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT6Z>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:01:26 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DE@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:01:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09149.222DA230" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09149.222DA230 Content-Type: text/plain That's not a dime! This is a dime. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains it doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of weight. It was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped my claim. Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its implied preference for whole numbers. Any judge that ignored Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would have been grossly irresponsible Since the authors of 311 and 306 both explained their strange intentions (as well as the fact that at least 3 of you rejected my interpretation), I stopped the claim. P.S Anyone got a half point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09149.222DA230 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's=20 not a dime!  This is a dime.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2= 001=20 3:33 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE= :=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains

it=20 doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of weight.  = It=20
was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped my= =20
claim.  Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its=20
implied preference for whole numbers.  Any judge that ignored=20
Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would=20
have been grossly irresponsible
Since the authors of 311 and 306 = both=20 explained their strange
intentions (as well as the fact that at least= 3 of=20 you rejected my
interpretation), I stopped the claim.

P.S Any= one=20 got a half point. 



To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C09149.222DA230-- From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:07:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:07:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 7729 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA07600 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:07:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:09:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <007601c09149$4c98db20$d3a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > > > Like Darth Vader. > > > Yes! You read my mind. Actually I felt a disturbance in the force which I havn't felt since... Hmmmmmm. > Bringing order to the universe is really a noble > undertaking. So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a couple of > Ewoks. All part of a days work, really. And those Ewoks aren't > really what > they seem. Under that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of > a vicious, > malicious beast, hostile to all order and good sense. Those little shits ruined what would have otherwise been a half-assed sequal. With that I smite thee... This is getting off topic. From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:10:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:10:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 43450 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:10:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA07978 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:10:52 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:12:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09120.C4BFF7B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DE@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09120.C4BFF7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS...... is shit. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:01 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains That's not a dime! This is a dime. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains it doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of weight. It was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped my claim. Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its implied preference for whole numbers. Any judge that ignored Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would have been grossly irresponsible Since the authors of 311 and 306 both explained their strange intentions (as well as the fact that at least 3 of you rejected my interpretation), I stopped the claim. P.S Anyone got a half point. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09120.C4BFF7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
THIS...... is shit.
-----Original Message-----
From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, Februa= ry=20 07, 2001 4:01 PM
To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re= :=20 Poll results for scatterbrains

That's not a dime!  This is a=20 dime.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07,= 2001=20 3:33 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: = RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for=20 scatterbrains

it doesn't carry any official wei= ght,=20 but it carries a lot of weight.  It
was in the face of the=20 expression of orignal intent that I dropped my
claim.  Otherwi= se I=20 could have had recourse under 306 and its
implied preference for wh= ole=20 numbers.  Any judge that ignored
Patrick's expressed declarati= on=20 that he meant no sucht thing would
have been grossly irresponsible= =20
Since the authors of 311 and 306 both explained their strange=20
intentions (as well as the fact that at least 3 of you rejected my= =20
interpretation), I stopped the claim.

P.S Anyone got a half= =20 point. 



To unsubscribe from this group, s= end=20 an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09120.C4BFF7B0-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 13:18:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:18:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 34039 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:17:00 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08949 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:16:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT65>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:11:58 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DF@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:11:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.9AAA66C0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.9AAA66C0 Content-Type: text/plain Work what do you know about it. You have only been working for a year, maybe less. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:03 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like Darth Vader. > Yes! You read my mind. Bringing order to the universe is really a noble undertaking. So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a couple of Ewoks. All part of a days work, really. And those Ewoks aren't really what they seem. Under that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a vicious, malicious beast, hostile to all order and good sense. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.9AAA66C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Work=20 what do you know about it. You have only been working for a year, maybe les= s.=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 20= 01=20 4:03 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re= :=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312

> > (And B= TW -=20 the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.)
>
> Like Darth=20 Vader.
>
Yes!  You read my mind.  Bringing order to th= e=20 universe is really a noble
undertaking.  So he had to suffocate a= few=20 generals and snuff a couple of
Ewoks.  All part of a days work,=20 really.  And those Ewoks aren't really what
they seem.  Unde= r=20 that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a vicious,
malicious b= east,=20 hostile to all order and good sense.





To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.9AAA66C0-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 07 13:19:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:19:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 41209 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:19:04 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09291 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT66>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:13:59 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372E0@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:13:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.E2BDA260" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.E2BDA260 Content-Type: text/plain That's right. I got your back Eug....... (cough) Way back -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:06 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:00 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a > > > > > > rule punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > > > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > > > > > > > Forgiven... > > > > > > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not > > > > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) would > > > > > be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to > > > > > punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would > > > > > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day > > > > > discussion of Plato. Might one not argue that his all day > > > > > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in > > > > > Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more > > > > > precise expression of law)? > > > > > > > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game is > > > > being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The power > > > > wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of > > > > that role, but it's there. > > > > > > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite > > > > first, then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope that we > > > > can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do > > > > hesitantly wear that hat. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role? > > > > Where did that come from? I've never opposed it. I've been > > legislating toward totally shared responsibilities. I even voted for > > the evil Chief Magistrate. > > > > --e > > My mistake I wasnt't here, I did not check the voting record. > The current proposal would indeed go in this direction; I only think > it should be stronger (ah, maybe later) > > I think we are have a misunderstanding becasue you aeem to have > been so insistent that all of these contigencies are already taken > care of and that there are not areas (such as my fractional point > nonsense) in need of greater authority to settle disputes. This was > my real point, or test, anyway. I just needed a ground to stand on > to test it. To me it's a simple matter. If it's not in the rules, it's not a rule. There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling in the judge, because he can't write law. I think you may end up tripping on your poly-sci background if you expect things like "implied preference" and "original intent" to mean anything to the 3 techies who make up half the population. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.E2BDA260 Content-Type: text/html
That's right. I got your back Eug....... (cough) Way back
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:06 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains

Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed
"in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:00 PM
> To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains
>
>
> On 7 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM
> > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be a
> > > > > > rule punishing off topic discussion...
> > > > > >
> > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside"
> > > >
> > > > Forgiven...
> > > >
> > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment not
> > > > > educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato)  would
> > > > > be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the power to
> > > > > punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic discussion, would
> > > > > mentioning the flu in passing be an equal penalty to an all day
> > > > > discussion of Plato.  Might one not argue that his all day
> > > > > discussion of Plato was for the sake of legal principles in
> > > > > Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction were for the sake of more
> > > > > precise expression of law)?
> > > >
> > > > Whatever.  There is one person who has power: Since the game is
> > > > being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator.  The power
> > > > wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my use of
> > > > that role, but it's there.
> > > >
> > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite
> > > > first, then ban the offending user.  I still hold the hope that we
> > > > can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), but I do
> > > > hesitantly wear that hat.
> > > >  --e
> > > >
> > > >
> > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a role?
> >
> > Where did that come from?  I've never opposed it.  I've been
> > legislating toward totally shared responsibilities.  I even voted for
> > the evil Chief Magistrate.
> >
> >  --e
>
> My mistake I wasnt't here, I did not check the voting record.
> The current proposal would indeed go in this direction; I only think
> it should be stronger (ah, maybe later)
>
> I think we are have a misunderstanding becasue you aeem to have
> been so insistent that all of these contigencies are already taken
> care of and that there are not areas (such as my fractional point
> nonsense) in need of greater authority to settle disputes.  This was
> my real point, or test, anyway.  I just needed a ground to stand on
> to test it.

To me it's a simple matter.  If it's not in the rules, it's not a rule.
There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling in the judge,
because he can't write law.  I think you may end up tripping on your
poly-sci background if you expect things like "implied  preference" and
"original intent" to mean anything to the 3 techies who make up half the
population.



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------_=_NextPart_001_01C0914A.E2BDA260-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:19:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:19:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 63463 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:19:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:35:32 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:27:36 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:27:26 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:27:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 16:05, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed > "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below. Is it worth a half point? (Dammit I am back to begging. Maybe I'll find something for sale) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:00 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:41 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 10:38, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As edifying as this all may be... perhaps there should be > > > > > > > a rule punishing off topic discussion... > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, sorry meant to send prior "outside" > > > > > > > > > > Forgiven... > > > > > > > > > > > So you take M's position on the function of law, punishment > > > > > > not educ. Unfortunately, as I am sure P (patrick not Plato) > > > > > > would be glad to tell you there is no one in Nomic with the > > > > > > power to punish. how on earth would we judge off-topic > > > > > > discussion, would mentioning the flu in passing be an equal > > > > > > penalty to an all day discussion of Plato. Might one not > > > > > > argue that his all day discussion of Plato was for the sake > > > > > > of legal principles in Nomic (or that his Latin clarifaction > > > > > > were for the sake of more precise expression of law)? > > > > > > > > > > Whatever. There is one person who has power: Since the game > > > > > is being played on a mailing list, there is a moderator. The > > > > > power wasn't given by law, and I've been trying to minimize my > > > > > use of that role, but it's there. > > > > > > > > > > List moderators typically admonish repeated lapses in etiquite > > > > > first, then ban the offending user. I still hold the hope > > > > > that we can be a self governing society (thanks again fritz), > > > > > but I do hesitantly wear that hat. > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, why are you opposed to the institutionalization of such a > > > > role? > > > > > > Where did that come from? I've never opposed it. I've been > > > legislating toward totally shared responsibilities. I even voted > > > for the evil Chief Magistrate. > > > > > > --e > > > > My mistake I wasnt't here, I did not check the voting record. > > The current proposal would indeed go in this direction; I only think > > it should be stronger (ah, maybe later) > > > > I think we are have a misunderstanding becasue you aeem to have been > > so insistent that all of these contigencies are already taken care > > of and that there are not areas (such as my fractional point > > nonsense) in need of greater authority to settle disputes. This was > > my real point, or test, anyway. I just needed a ground to stand on > > to test it. > > To me it's a simple matter. If it's not in the rules, it's not a > rule. There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling in > the judge, because he can't write law. I think you may end up > tripping on your poly-sci background if you expect things like > "implied preference" and "original intent" to mean anything to the 3 > techies who make up half the population. > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and Leisure" (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy books), but I hope to show them all that good sound political judgment needs to rule technology before the techies take over. BTW, I didn't used the phrase "implied preference of the law" while I thought I had a case I also new that there was little support for such a legal theory among known members (of course its even harder in the phase of expressed preference) > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981579842/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:23:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:23:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 50091 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:21:43 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:39:01 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:31:06 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:30:45 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:30:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DE@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00ada0139210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 16:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > THIS...... is shit. let me explain, My only point was that I could have called to judgment under 306 until Patrick explicitly stated that it was not his intention to avoid all fractional scores. Clearer? > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:01 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > That's not a dime! This is a dime. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:33 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > it doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of > weight. > It > was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped > my claim. Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its > implied preference for whole numbers. Any judge that ignored > Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would > have been grossly irresponsible Since the authors of 311 and 306 > both explained their strange intentions (as well as the fact that > at least 3 of you rejected my interpretation), I stopped the > claim. > > P.S Anyone got a half point. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 07 13:33:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:33:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 14948 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:33:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2001 21:33:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:33:03 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 312 Message-ID: <95seuf+h516@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2379 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Yes, I would. However, I would still like to see a term limit if at all possible. I'm just afraid that, because of apathy, one person might sit in the position for a very long time, thus accumulating a vast number of points, putting him at an advantage for winning the game. I feel that a term limit would lesson this possibility. Periodic votes of confidence would add a certain humility to the holder of this office. A term limit would eliminate the possibility of entrenchment. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Fritz- > Would you accept a periodic vote of confidence in lieu of a term limit? > > > > > That's much more concise than my version. > > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like Darth Vader. > > > > > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. > > If > > > there has not been a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an > > automatic VOC is > > > called." ? It's acceptable to me. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as an expressed > > > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player insisting on such a vote. > > I > > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be specified that > > after, say > > 20 > > > > turns (to pull a number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a > > vote, > > > > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > > concurring > > > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > > > > limit would > > > > start from the previous vote. This'll make it more of a > > > > strategic decision > > > > when to call votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:35:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:35:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 82257 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11119 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:33:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:35:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed > > "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below. > > Is it worth a half point? > (Dammit I am back to begging. Maybe I'll find something for sale) Ummmm, no. > > To me it's a simple matter. If it's not in the rules, it's not a > > rule. There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling in > > the judge, because he can't write law. I think you may end up > > tripping on your poly-sci background if you expect things like > > "implied preference" and "original intent" to mean anything to the 3 > > techies who make up half the population. > > > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and > Leisure" (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy > books), but I hope to show them all that good sound political > judgment needs to rule technology before the techies take over. You are so fucking right. We've got you all by the balls, and you're just now starting to realize it. The Amish have the best policy for the introduction of new technology. AFAIK, it's fully evaluated by society before it's allowed in. Vint Cerf (the guy who _really_ invented the internet) said "The internet sees Censorship as a communications problem, and routes around it." In other words, this thing is practically unstoppable, even if it were to be legislated. > > BTW, I didn't used the phrase "implied preference of the law" while > I thought I had a case > > I also new that there was little support for such a legal theory > among known members (of course its even harder in the phase of > expressed preference) > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:35:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:35:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 90274 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:34:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:34:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11260 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:34:37 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:36:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00ada0139210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It worked!!!!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > THIS...... is shit. > > let me explain, > My only point was that I could have called to judgment under 306 > until Patrick explicitly stated that it was not his intention to avoid > all fractional scores. Clearer? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:01 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > That's not a dime! This is a dime. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:33 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > it doesn't carry any official weight, but it carries a lot of > > weight. > > It > > was in the face of the expression of orignal intent that I dropped > > my claim. Otherwise I could have had recourse under 306 and its > > implied preference for whole numbers. Any judge that ignored > > Patrick's expressed declaration that he meant no sucht thing would > > have been grossly irresponsible Since the authors of 311 and 306 > > both explained their strange intentions (as well as the fact that > > at least 3 of you rejected my interpretation), I stopped the > > claim. > > > > P.S Anyone got a half point. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 07 13:35:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:35:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 93648 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:35:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2001 21:34:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:34:53 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 312 Message-ID: <95sf1t+e1lf@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <007601c09149$4c98db20$d3a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 648 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Order for the sole sake of order is really no order at all. We can only used justified means to reach justified ends. --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > > > Like Darth Vader. > > > Yes! You read my mind. Bringing order to the universe is really a noble > undertaking. So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a couple of > Ewoks. All part of a days work, really. And those Ewoks aren't really what > they seem. Under that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a vicious, > malicious beast, hostile to all order and good From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:37:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:37:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 93030 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:37:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:37:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:37:09 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:54:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:46:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:46:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:46:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95seuf+h516@eGroups.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0090a2754210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 21:33, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Yes, I would. > > However, I would still like to see a term limit if at all possible. > I'm just afraid that, because of apathy, one person might sit in the > position for a very long time, thus accumulating a vast number of > points, putting him at an advantage for winning the game. I feel that > a term limit would lesson this possibility. > > Periodic votes of confidence would add a certain humility to the > holder of this office. A term limit would eliminate the possibility > of entrenchment. > > -Fritz > For the same reason I woudl prefer a shorter term (10 turns) to term limits. That alone would fulfill Fritz's concerns > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Fritz- > Would you accept a periodic vote of confidence in lieu of a > term limit? > > > > > That's much more concise than my version. > > > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like Darth > Vader. > > > > > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be called > by any player at any time. > > If > > > there has not been a vote of > confidence for 20 turns, an > > automatic VOC is > > > called." ? > It's acceptable to me. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: > Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as > an expressed > > > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player > insisting on such a vote. > > I > > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be > specified that > > after, say > > 20 > > > > turns (to pull a number > off the top of my head), you MUST call for a > > vote, > > > > but the > SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > > concurring > > > > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > > > > > limit would > > > > start from the previous vote. This'll > make it more of a > > > > strategic decision > > > > when to call > votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981581587/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:39:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:39:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97112 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:38:25 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11660 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:38:24 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:40:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C09124.9D3FACE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95sf1t+e1lf@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C09124.9D3FACE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001F_01C09124.9D3FACE0" ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01C09124.9D3FACE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wanna touch my mittens? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:35 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > Order for the sole sake of order is really no order at all. We can > only used justified means to reach justified ends. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > > > > > Like Darth Vader. > > > > > Yes! You read my mind. Bringing order to the universe is really a > noble > > undertaking. So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a > couple of > > Ewoks. All part of a days work, really. And those Ewoks aren't > really what > > they seem. Under that "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a > vicious, > > malicious beast, hostile to all order and good > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > ------=_NextPart_001_001F_01C09124.9D3FACE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wanna touch my mittens?3D""

>= ;=20 -----Original Message-----
> From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
&g= t;=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:35 PM
> To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal= =20 312
>
>
> Order for the sole sake of order is really no o= rder=20 at all.  We can
> only used justified means to reach justified=20 ends.
>
> --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo"=20 <bernardo@c...>
> wrote:
> > > > (And BTW - the = CM=20 wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.)
> > >
> > > Lik= e=20 Darth Vader.
> > >
> > Yes!  You read my mind.&nb= sp;=20 Bringing order to the universe is really a
> noble
> >=20 undertaking.  So he had to suffocate a few generals and snuff a
>= ;=20 couple of
> > Ewoks.  All part of a days work, really.  = And=20 those Ewoks aren't
> really what
> > they seem.  Under = that=20 "cute and furry" exterior lies the soul of a
> vicious,
> >= =20 malicious beast, hostile to all order and good
>
>
>=20 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 ---------------------~-~>
> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups
> C= lick=20 here for more details
> http://click.e= groups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981581738/
>=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->=
>
>=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>=20

------=_NextPart_001_001F_01C09124.9D3FACE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C09124.9D3FACE0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="yessmall.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <381004021@07022001-3030> [Attachment content not displayed.] ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C09124.9D3FACE0-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:41:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:41:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 35198 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:40:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:57:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:49:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:49:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:48:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <009932557210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 16:35, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an > > > unabashed "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard > > > top-quoters... More below. > > > > Is it worth a half point? > > (Dammit I am back to begging. Maybe I'll find something for sale) > > Ummmm, no. > > > > > > To me it's a simple matter. If it's not in the rules, it's not a > > > rule. There are ambiguities, but they can't be resolved by calling > > > in the judge, because he can't write law. I think you may end up > > > tripping on your poly-sci background if you expect things like > > > "implied preference" and "original intent" to mean anything to > > > the 3 techies who make up half the population. > > > > > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and Leisure" > > (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy books), but I > > hope to show them all that good sound political judgment needs to > > rule technology before the techies take over. > > You are so fucking right. We've got you all by the balls, and you're > just now starting to realize it. The Amish have the best policy for > the introduction of new technology. AFAIK, it's fully evaluated by > society before it's allowed in. > > Vint Cerf (the guy who _really_ invented the internet) said "The > internet sees Censorship as a communications problem, and routes > around it." In other words, this thing is practically unstoppable, > even if it were to be legislated. > It's a good thing you don't have control of the bomb I didn't say stop (the Amish) I said rule > > > > BTW, I didn't used the phrase "implied preference of the law" while > > I thought I had a case > > > > I also new that there was little support for such a legal theory > > among known members (of course its even harder in the phase of > > expressed preference) > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981581718/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 13:41:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:41:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 36379 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:41:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11886 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:40:31 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:42:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <0090a2754210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" How about 10 between VOC's and no term limits --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:46 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 21:33, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > Yes, I would. > > > > However, I would still like to see a term limit if at all possible. > > I'm just afraid that, because of apathy, one person might sit in the > > position for a very long time, thus accumulating a vast number of > > points, putting him at an advantage for winning the game. I feel that > > a term limit would lesson this possibility. > > > > Periodic votes of confidence would add a certain humility to the > > holder of this office. A term limit would eliminate the possibility > > of entrenchment. > > > > -Fritz > > > For the same reason I woudl prefer a shorter term (10 turns) to > term limits. That alone would fulfill Fritz's concerns > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > Fritz- > Would you accept a periodic vote of confidence in lieu of a > > term limit? > > > > > That's much more concise than my version. > > > > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like Darth > > Vader. > > > > > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be called > > by any player at any time. > > If > > > there has not been a vote of > > confidence for 20 turns, an > > automatic VOC is > > > called." ? > > It's acceptable to me. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: > > Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support as > > an expressed > > > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player > > insisting on such a vote. > > I > > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could be > > specified that > > after, say > > 20 > > > > turns (to pull a number > > off the top of my head), you MUST call for a > > vote, > > > > but the > > SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > > concurring > > > > > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 turn > > > > > > limit would > > > > start from the previous vote. This'll > > make it more of a > > > > strategic decision > > > > when to call > > votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe > > from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981581587/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 13:47:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 21:47:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 30330 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 21:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:46:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:03:53 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:55:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 15:55:49 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:55:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0090a2754210721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008d65303220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 16:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > How about 10 between VOC's and no term limits > --e > Come on Fritz TL's are bullshit, do you all of our judgment is that poor Another issue: What about this payment issue. E, would you be opposed to changing the language to "awarded..." Setting aside the convulted prnciple fo honor/ principle of weath issue, it would complicate things if a future currency were created. Otherwise I prefer my "public employees to be "paid" via taxes > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 4:46 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 21:33, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > Yes, I would. > > > > > > However, I would still like to see a term limit if at all > > > possible. I'm just afraid that, because of apathy, one person > > > might sit in the position for a very long time, thus accumulating > > > a vast number of points, putting him at an advantage for winning > > > the game. I feel that a term limit would lesson this possibility. > > > > > > Periodic votes of confidence would add a certain humility to the > > > holder of this office. A term limit would eliminate the > > > possibility of entrenchment. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > For the same reason I woudl prefer a shorter term (10 turns) to term > > limits. That alone would fulfill Fritz's concerns > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > Fritz- > Would you accept a periodic vote of confidence > > > in lieu of a term limit? > > > > > That's much more concise than > > > my version. > > > > > > > (And BTW - the CM wasn't "evil", just misunderstood.) > > Like > > > > Darth > > > Vader. > > > > > > > > How about "A vote of confidence can be > > > called by any player at any time. > > If > > > there has not been > > > a vote of confidence for 20 turns, an > > automatic VOC is > > > > > > called." ? It's acceptable to me. > > > > > > > -----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: > > > Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:38 PM > > > > To: > > > scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regular votes of confidence allow popular support > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > an expressed > > > > > grant, and it avoids any particular player > > > insisting on such a vote. > > I > > > > > think it is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a way to combine these. It could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > specified that > > after, say > > 20 > > > > turns (to pull a > > > number off the top of my head), you MUST call for a > > vote, > > > > > > > but the SK'er - or others, perhaps require a request and one > > > > > concurring > > > > > > > opinion - can call it earlier if it is desired. The new 20 > > > > > > turn > > > > > > > limit would > > > > start from the previous vote. This'll > > > make it more of a > > > > strategic decision > > > > when to call > > > votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981581587/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981582104/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 14:02:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:02:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1182 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:03:27 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA14368 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:02:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:03:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <009932557210721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > > > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > > > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and Leisure" > > > (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy books), but I > > > hope to show them all that good sound political judgment needs to > > > rule technology before the techies take over. > > > > You are so fucking right. We've got you all by the balls, and you're > > just now starting to realize it. The Amish have the best policy for > > the introduction of new technology. AFAIK, it's fully evaluated by > > society before it's allowed in. > > > > Vint Cerf (the guy who _really_ invented the internet) said "The > > internet sees Censorship as a communications problem, and routes > > around it." In other words, this thing is practically unstoppable, > > even if it were to be legislated. > > > It's a good thing you don't have control of the bomb > > I didn't say stop (the Amish) I said rule It is a good thing indeed. We just design & build 'em, and can walk away blameless when you politicos use them. Interresting article about the Amish and Technology http://criglernajjar.terrashare.com//FromNYT.htm From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 14:04:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:04:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 74611 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:05:26 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA14577 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:04:20 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:05:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008d65303220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > How about 10 between VOC's and no term limits > > --e > > > Come on Fritz TL's are bullshit, do you all of our judgment is that > poor I can't even begin to parse that... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 14:13:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:13:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 35931 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:13:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA15588 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:13:48 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 312 (revised) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:15:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" BEGIN Scorekeeper: The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of the report. The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. END This is also available at www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html#312 --e From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 14:14:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 15161 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:15:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:32:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:24:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:23:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:23:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <008d65303220721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <009260932220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 17:05, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > How about 10 between VOC's and no term limits > > > --e > > > > > Come on Fritz TL's are bullshit, do you all of our judgment is that > > poor > > I can't even begin to parse that... Term Limits (TL's) suck! Do you think, Fritz (TL supporter) that are judgment is so poor, we need to end terms by an automatic mechanism. I urge you Fritz to support E's Suggested revison 10-turn VOC's w/o TL's (and cease all support for real world term limits) > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981583462/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 07 14:15:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:15:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 13399 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:15:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:15:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:15:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Feb 2001 22:15:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 22:15:10 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 312 Message-ID: <95shdf+4b87@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <008d65303220721ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 661 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > How about 10 between VOC's and no term limits > > --e > > > Come on Fritz TL's are bullshit, do you all of our judgment is that > poor Uh....Yes? Rather, I would not want to rely on your judgment, poor or not. Indeed, given that we may be setting up a certain player to use this to win, I would want some assurance in place that takes this issue out of your hands. No offence but I'm not here to go around trusting people. In so far as our situation relies on trust I would want us to do what we can to remedy that pro From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 14:21:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 25504 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:21:48 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:39:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:31:09 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:30:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:30:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95shdf+4b87@eGroups.com> References: <008d65303220721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008da0539220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 22:15, f_hemker@h... wrote: That's the reason for shorter terms and anytime call for VOC. Run if you want the damn job don't just wait for it to be defered to you. > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:42, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > How about 10 > between VOC's and no term limits > > --e > > > Come on Fritz TL's are > bullshit, do you all of our judgment is that > poor > > Uh....Yes? Rather, I would not want to rely on your judgment, poor > or not. Indeed, given that we may be setting up a certain player to > use this to win, I would want some assurance in place that takes this > issue out of your hands. No offence but I'm not here to go around > trusting people. In so far as our situation relies on trust I would > want us to do what we can to remedy that pro > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981584114/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 14:30:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:30:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 58799 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:30:46 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:48:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:40:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 16:39:53 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:39:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (revised) Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008f70048220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 17:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Would it go too far (and far enough for Fritz if you made every 10 turn vote a new open vote rather than a VOC on an infinitely renewable contract. i would like at least a reply on the question of the language of payment, taxation,etc. A simple change of wording would satisfy me and leave more possibilties for the future. "payed" 1 point... to "awarded one point.." and the word contract eliminated. Clarifiications First you need to change the word perspective employees (or candidates) to PROspective Second, the manner of election is not expressly laid out. Does it require a majority or a plurality? If a majority, shouldn't the "top two" candidates appear in the runoff. As it is written If you got Four votes s, pat and bob each got 1, there woudl be a runoff between p and b because they tied. I assume that is not what you mean, but that paragraph needs to be cleaned up. Sorry to quibble, but it is not clear whether the winner needs a majority or not. > BEGIN > > Scorekeeper: > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of > maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's > score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score > change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within > 5 business days of the report. > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, > each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain > the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the > adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by > the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point > from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A > poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and > each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be > a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied > applicants. > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and > indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his > discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught > before the dispute period. > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A > vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there > has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is > called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should > be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The > previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains > scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. > > END > > This is also available at www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.html#312 --e > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981584033/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 14:46:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:46:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 95429 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:46:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA19073 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:46:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (revised) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:47:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008f70048220721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > On 7 Feb 01, at 17:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Would it go too far (and far enough for Fritz if you made every 10 > turn vote a new open vote rather than a VOC on an infinitely > renewable contract. If you'll scroll back a bit, you'll see that I've gone far enough for Fritz. He's not happy, but he's onboard. I'm sure you can change his mind if you keep fighting him on it. > i would like at least a reply on the question of the language of > payment, taxation,etc. A simple change of wording would satisfy > me and leave more possibilties for the future. > "payed" 1 point... to "awarded one point.." and the word contract > eliminated. I think you'll have to explain what's wrong with it. I still see this office as a job, hence paid contract. > Clarifiications > First you need to change the word perspective employees (or > candidates) to PROspective OK, done. And you change Clarifiications to Clarifications ;) > Second, the manner of election is not expressly laid out. Does it > require a majority or a plurality? If a majority, shouldn't the "top > two" candidates appear in the runoff. As it is written If you got Four > votes s, pat and bob each got 1, there woudl be a runoff between p > and b because they tied. I assume that is not what you mean, but > that paragraph needs to be cleaned up. Sorry to quibble, but it is > not clear whether the winner needs a majority or not. I've added the explaination is CAPS. It's a plurality ... The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. THE APPLICANT RECIEVING THE MOST VOTES BECOMES THE SCOREKEEPER AT THE START OF THE NEXT TURN. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only THOSE APPLICANTS WHO RECIEVED THE MOST VOTES. ... From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 07 14:59:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 7 Feb 2001 22:59:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 34554 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Feb 2001 22:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 00:00:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:16:41 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 17:08:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 7 Feb 01 17:08:33 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 17:08:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (revised) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <008f70048220721ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00a014116230721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 17:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > On 7 Feb 01, at 17:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Would it go too far (and far enough for Fritz if you made every 10 > > turn vote a new open vote rather than a VOC on an infinitely > > renewable contract. > > If you'll scroll back a bit, you'll see that I've gone far enough for > Fritz. He's not happy, but he's onboard. I'm sure you can change his > mind if you keep fighting him on it. > I would be happier with an OPEN vote rather than a VOC every ten turns. > > i would like at least a reply on the question of the language of > > payment, taxation,etc. A simple change of wording would satisfy me > > and leave more possibilties for the future. "payed" 1 point... to > > "awarded one point.." and the word contract eliminated. > > I think you'll have to explain what's wrong with it. I still see this > office as a job, hence paid contract. > To may understandings payments are exchanges. If you want to raise taxes from points, so that we have funds to "pay" officeholders, do it. I can give you an honor or award without giving anything away. If you insist that it is a payment, I believe I will have to insist that it be "paid" from somewhere. If you want to turn everything into a system of payments then I should perhaps be paid for a vote. I will accept only exactly the amount you gain due to my vote (you can decide whether before or after rounding) made as a payment. I.E., you gain as much from making me happy with the law. > > Clarifiications > > First you need to change the word perspective employees (or > > candidates) to PROspective > > OK, done. And you change Clarifiications to Clarifications ;) > this is not a PROPOSAL > > Second, the manner of election is not expressly laid out. Does it > > require a majority or a plurality? If a majority, shouldn't the "top > > two" candidates appear in the runoff. As it is written If you got > > Four votes s, pat and bob each got 1, there woudl be a runoff > > between p and b because they tied. I assume that is not what you > > mean, but that paragraph needs to be cleaned up. Sorry to quibble, > > but it is not clear whether the winner needs a majority or not. > > I've added the explaination is CAPS. It's a plurality > > ... > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A > poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and > each player shall choose one. THE APPLICANT RECIEVING THE MOST VOTES > BECOMES THE SCOREKEEPER AT THE START OF THE NEXT TURN. If the outcome > is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same > manner with only THOSE APPLICANTS WHO RECIEVED THE MOST VOTES. ... > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981585969/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 16:53:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 00:53:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 36997 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 00:53:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 00:53:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 00:53:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f180rnk70649 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:53:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004c01c09169$812bd160$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372DE@BATMAN> <00ada0139210721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:53:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" From: Paul Kirkland > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > THIS...... is shit. > > let me explain, Don't bother, Paul. They're channeling "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." I knew this group would go to pot, eventually. Especially once people started discussing movies and stuff. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 07 16:57:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 00:57:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 46059 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 00:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 00:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 01:58:13 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f180v7k71003 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:57:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005201c09169$f6f7c340$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:56:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" From: Paul Kirkland > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:05, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an unabashed > > "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard top-quoters... More below. > > Is it worth a half point? > (Dammit I am back to begging. Maybe I'll find something for sale) > > Uh... Nah. It's too easy. > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and > Leisure" (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy > books), but I hope to show them all that good sound political > judgment needs to rule technology before the techies take over. > Actually Paul, only 3 of us know what the architechtonic art is. The other 3 immediately think of buildings when they hear that phrase. Did anyone see the Simpsons where the scientists take over and try to rule the town? As for "implied preference of the law", etc. It can come in handy. I just think that your case was a bit of a stretch to begin with. In a case that does have some merit, it'll be a concept that we come back to. From eventi@w... Wed Feb 07 19:00:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 03:00:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 56016 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 03:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 03:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 03:00:33 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f183vpB11318 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:57:51 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id WAA28208; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:00:32 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Cuckoo's nest In-Reply-To: 9169812 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1336@w...> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:00:32 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Intentional or not, Bobby's was actually a really appropriate comment. ------ From: Subject:Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains[3A8200B5] From: Paul Kirkland > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > THIS...... is shit. > > let me explain, Don't bother, Paul. They're channeling "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." I knew this group would go to pot, eventually. Especially once people started discussing movies and stuff. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Wed Feb 07 21:40:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 05:40:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 42989 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 05:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 05:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 05:40:48 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11379 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:40:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <015301c09191$b1c2e840$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> <005201c09169$f6f7c340$d4a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:40:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and > > Leisure" (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy > > books), but I hope to show them all that good sound political > > judgment needs to rule technology before the techies take over. > > > Actually Paul, only 3 of us know what the architechtonic art is. The other > 3 immediately think of buildings when they hear that phrase. Actually, Myla and I were just talking about earthquakes, so I read Archi-tectonic The subject of architechtonic art reminds me of this: http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern > Did anyone see the Simpsons where the scientists take over and try to rule > the town? > > As for "implied preference of the law", etc. It can come in handy. I just > think that your case was a bit of a stretch to begin with. In a case that > does have some merit, it'll be a concept that we come back to. From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 05:11:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 13:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 24418 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 13:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:11:19 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f18DBHk89911 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:11:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01c091d0$873079a0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <00a314208210721ISWEBNT@d...> <008393235210721ISWEBNT@d...> <005201c09169$f6f7c340$d4a811d0@computer> <015301c09191$b1c2e840$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:10:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > Actually Paul, only 3 of us know what the architechtonic art is. The > other > > 3 immediately think of buildings when they hear that phrase. > > Actually, Myla and I were just talking about earthquakes, so I read > Archi-tectonic > The subject of architechtonic art reminds me of this: > http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern > Hey now, don't lets get started on whose discipline has the more outrageous jargon. Don't forget, I've seen slashdot. Besides, nobody here is a postmodernist. From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 05:12:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 13:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 21367 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 13:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:13:11 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f18DC4k89937 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:12:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c091d0$a3b447a0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1336@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Cuckoo's nest Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Intentional or not, Bobby's was actually a really appropriate comment. > Maybe... My reply was meant to be ironic. I was the one talking about Lord Vader, after all... > ------ > From: > Subject:Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains[3A8200B5] > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > THIS...... is shit. > > > > let me explain, > > Don't bother, Paul. They're channeling "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." > I knew this group would go to pot, eventually. Especially once people > started discussing movies and stuff. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 06:20:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 14:20:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 22007 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 14:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:21:33 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:37:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 08:29:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 08:29:32 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:29:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005201c09169$f6f7c340$d4a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00ca83937140821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 7 Feb 01, at 19:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 7 Feb 01, at 16:05, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Paul- You immediately gain stature in my book for being an > > > unabashed "in-quoter" as opposed to those rat-bastard > > > top-quoters... More below. > > > > Is it worth a half point? > > (Dammit I am back to begging. Maybe I'll find something for sale) > > > > Uh... Nah. It's too easy. > > > So its now a 50-50 pop and we all know what the architechtonic art > > is. I am also teaching class called "Technology, Work, and Leisure" > > (Sure we're really just reading a bunch of philosophy books), but I > > hope to show them all that good sound political judgment needs to > > rule technology before the techies take over. > > > Actually Paul, only 3 of us know what the architechtonic art is. The > other 3 immediately think of buildings when they hear that phrase. > I think that was my point, I only wanted to emphasize the potentially budding factions. > Did anyone see the Simpsons where the scientists take over and try to > rule the town? no > > As for "implied preference of the law", etc. It can come in handy. I > just think that your case was a bit of a stretch to begin with. In a > case that does have some merit, it'll be a concept that we come back > to. yeah I know it was a stretch, I was testing things > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981593829/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 06:51:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 14:51:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 79237 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 14:50:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:50:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 14:50:28 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:50:24 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Summing Up Message-ID: <95ubng+3aq4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 275 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone sum up what we've arrived at? By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical progression point of view. -Fr From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 06:53:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 14:53:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 89209 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 14:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:53:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f18Er3k98559 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:53:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c091de$bf604ae0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <95ubng+3aq4@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Summing Up Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:52:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I was hoping for the same. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone > sum up what we've arrived at? > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical > progression point of view. > > -Fr > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 06:55:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 14:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 70949 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 14:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:53:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09748 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:53:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Summing Up Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:55:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95ubng+3aq4@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone > sum up what we've arrived at? > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical > progression point of view. > > -Fr > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 07:04:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:04:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 45464 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:02:49 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 15:02:49 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:02:45 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Summing Up Message-ID: <95ucel+2rnv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 917 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Nothing like a smart-ass to muddy the waters even more. I keep thinking of that Talking Heads song from Remain in Light "Well, how did I get here?" -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical > > progression point of view. > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 07:05:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:05:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 26443 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:04:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f18F4jk99496 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:04:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c091e0$61ab6c20$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Summing Up Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:04:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I guess basically I'd like to know: What does the prop look like at this stage? Are there any changes that people still want to make, or should we go ahead and vote? Would you (e) like to make a defense speech or something? Aren't we ready to keep on keepin' on? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical > > progression point of view. > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 07:07:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:07:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 24498 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:07:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:07:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:07:29 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11094 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:07:28 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:09:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95ucel+2rnv@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Well, is it Muddy Waters or Talking Heads? Only the first sentence was facetious. Which discussion were you talking about? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:03 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up > > > Nothing like a smart-ass to muddy the waters even more. > > I keep thinking of that Talking Heads song from Remain in Light > > "Well, how did I get here?" > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually > have > > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could > someone > > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly > logical > > > progression point of view. > > > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 07:11:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:11:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 22016 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:11:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:11:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:11:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA11510 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:11:31 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Summing Up Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:13:07 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001b01c091e0$61ab6c20$bfa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I don't really see the need for a defense speech. Fritz said he'd accept a periodic VOC in lieu of a term limit. Paul asked for some changes, and they're in. Steven is crouched over test-tubes, waiting for this to settle, and Bob's cool. I'll give it till noon to make it final, and be done with it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:04 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > I guess basically I'd like to know: > > What does the prop look like at this stage? Are there any changes that > people still want to make, or should we go ahead and vote? Would you (e) > like to make a defense speech or something? > > Aren't we ready to keep on keepin' on? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:55 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually have > > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could someone > > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly logical > > > progression point of view. > > > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 07:13:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:13:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 37847 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (208.50.99.211) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:13:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.109] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 15:13:26 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:13:26 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Message-ID: <95ud2m+k60a@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1807 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Proposal 312. Where do we stand? I don't imagine that every proposal will be unanimously passed. I don't imagine that everyone will always be happy with everything. Give us what we've got and let's see how it shakes out. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Well, is it Muddy Waters or Talking Heads? > > Only the first sentence was facetious. Which discussion were you talking > about? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up > > > > > > Nothing like a smart-ass to muddy the waters even more. > > > > I keep thinking of that Talking Heads song from Remain in Light > > > > "Well, how did I get here?" > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and actually > > have > > > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could > > someone > > > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly > > logical > > > > progression point of view. > > > > > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 07:23:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 15:23:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 57727 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 15:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:24:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12856 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:23:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:25:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <95ud2m+k60a@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" in-quoted below... > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:13 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > Proposal 312. Where do we stand? > > I don't imagine that every proposal will be unanimously passed. I > don't imagine that everyone will always be happy with everything. > Give us what we've got and let's see how it shakes out. No, I don't think they should be. But I think the feedback and revision makes for a better proposal. I would argue more vehemently with someone who had a "really close" proposal, that a "no f-in way" proposal. One argument's constructive, the other's just listening to yourself talk. If I can get you onboard with a small change, I'd rather it pass diluted than not at all. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Well, is it Muddy Waters or Talking Heads? > > > > Only the first sentence was facetious. Which discussion were you > talking > > about? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up > > > > > > > > > Nothing like a smart-ass to muddy the waters even more. > > > > > > I keep thinking of that Talking Heads song from Remain in Light > > > > > > "Well, how did I get here?" > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and > actually > > > have > > > > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. Could > > > someone > > > > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly > > > logical > > > > > progression point of view. > > > > > > > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 08:10:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 16:10:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 261 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 16:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:10:07 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:26:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 10:18:27 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 10:18:18 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:18:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <95ud2m+k60a@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00c8b1226160821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Looks like a defense speech to me. This many summing up's looks a bit ridiculous, eh? > > in-quoted below... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:13 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > Proposal 312. Where do we stand? > > > > I don't imagine that every proposal will be unanimously passed. I > > don't imagine that everyone will always be happy with everything. > > Give us what we've got and let's see how it shakes out. > > No, I don't think they should be. But I think the feedback and > revision makes for a better proposal. I would argue more vehemently > with someone who had a "really close" proposal, that a "no f-in way" > proposal. One argument's constructive, the other's just listening to > yourself talk. If I can get you onboard with a small change, I'd > rather it pass diluted than not at all. > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > Well, is it Muddy Waters or Talking Heads? > > > > > > Only the first sentence was facetious. Which discussion were you > > talking > > > about? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing like a smart-ass to muddy the waters even more. > > > > > > > > I keep thinking of that Talking Heads song from Remain in Light > > > > > > > > "Well, how did I get here?" > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > > We were having a discussion? Seriously, which one? > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 9:50 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Summing Up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my efforts to follow this discussion, do my job, and > > actually > > > > have > > > > > > a life I've managed to lose the thread of the argument. > > > > > > Could > > > > someone > > > > > > sum up what we've arrived at? > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I find in-quotes hard to follow from a strictly > > > > logical > > > > > > progression point of view. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fr > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981645822/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 08:16:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 16:16:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 63158 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 16:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:16:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA18914 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:16:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:18:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00c8b1226160821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Looks like a defense speech to me. I'm not being defensive!!! You're the one who's being defensive!!! > This many summing up's looks a bit ridiculous, eh? Take a breath, and try this sentence again... From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 08:24:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 16:24:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 47789 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 16:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:25:29 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:41:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 10:33:49 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 10:33:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:33:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00c8b1226160821ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00cde3441160821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 11:18, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Looks like a defense speech to me. > > I'm not being defensive!!! You're the one who's being defensive!!! > > > This many "summing up's" (as subject headings) looks a bit ridiculous, eh? > > Take a breath, and try this sentence again... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981648997/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 08:34:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 16:34:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 92173 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 16:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:34:20 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.193]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f18GYHk08198 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:34:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c091ec$e33b5640$c1a811d0@computer> To: References: <00c8b1226160821ISWEBNT@d...> <00cde3441160821ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:33:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Play nice, now. We were just about to get somewhere... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:18, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > Looks like a defense speech to me. > > > > I'm not being defensive!!! You're the one who's being defensive!!! > > > > > This many "summing up's" (as subject headings) looks a bit ridiculous, eh? > > > > Take a breath, and try this sentence again... > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981648997/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 08:38:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 16:38:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 88413 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 16:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:39:45 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21618 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:38:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Proposal 312 (latest revision) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:40:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" LAST CALL: This goes Final at noon (EST) All this discussion is going nowhere. If you have any constructive criticism, speak now, or don't. --e Scorekeeper: The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of the report. The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 09:19:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:19:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 2335 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:19:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:36:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 11:28:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 11:28:36 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:28:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001101c091ec$e33b5640$c1a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00c274236170821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 11:33, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: I urge you all (or those with good sense and healthy sense of self- interest) to vote NO. 1 point per player per turn will add up really quickly. This looks more and more like just a point grab!!! and it will too strongly favor one player. I know there will be an open election, but how many of you really want to deal with the scoreboard. (I can now only pray that it is only three) This payment could be reduced if the real interest is good scoring and appropriate compensation > Play nice, now. We were just about to get somewhere... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:33 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:18, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Looks like a defense speech to me. > > > > > > I'm not being defensive!!! You're the one who's being defensive!!! > > > > > > > This many "summing up's" (as subject headings) looks a bit > ridiculous, eh? > > > > > > Take a breath, and try this sentence again... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981648997/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981650063/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 09:28:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:28:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 34885 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:28:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:45:40 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 11:37:56 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 11:37:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (reasons for delay Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00ccc4045170821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 11:40, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Instead of replying to that last email, I'll transfer 10 points to > > your score if you drop all opposition and vote for my proposal. This > > is a one time offer. You'd get 10 for voting against it anyway, and > > if I were to pay you the fraction you contributed to my win, it would > > only be 2.5 points. Just ask why > LAST CALL: This goes Final at noon (EST) All this discussion is going > nowhere. If you have any constructive criticism, speak now, or don't. > --e > > Scorekeeper: > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of > maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's > score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score > change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within > 5 business days of the report. > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, > each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the > date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the > adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by > the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point > from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A > poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and > each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be > a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied > applicants. > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and > indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his > discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught > before the dispute period. > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A > vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there > has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is > called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should > be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The > previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains > scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981650322/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:29:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:29:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 29621 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:29:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:29:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:29:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27445 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:31:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00c274236170821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" READ CAREFULLY: One point per player per N TURNS. After 6 turns, the scorekeeper gets 6 points. One point from each of N players after N turns. And if YOU say something, remove the "Patrick Bernardo wrote:" line from the quote. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:29 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:33, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I urge you all (or those with good sense and healthy sense of self- > interest) to vote NO. 1 point per player per turn will add up really > quickly. This looks more and more like just a point grab!!! > and it will too strongly favor one player. > I know there will be an open election, but how many of you really > want to deal with the scoreboard. (I can now only pray that it is > only three) > This payment could be reduced if the real interest is good scoring > and appropriate compensation > > Play nice, now. We were just about to get somewhere... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:33 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:18, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:18 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Summing Up Proposal 312 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 10:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Looks like a defense speech to me. > > > > > > > > I'm not being defensive!!! You're the one who's being defensive!!! > > > > > > > > > This many "summing up's" (as subject headings) looks a bit > > ridiculous, eh? > > > > > > > > Take a breath, and try this sentence again... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > > for more details > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981648997/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981650063/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:29:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:29:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 38358 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:29:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:29:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:29:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27450; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:29:51 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Cc: "Paul Kirkland" Subject: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:31:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Enough. Extortion & Blackmail vs. a simple tactical bribe? And a legal one at that... -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:32 PM To: Eugene Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER On 8 Feb 01, at 12:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: how many votes are you sure of? > Nope. I don't care who knows. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:27 PM > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Would you offer 5 not to mention the bribery scheme. > > > > You can state your reason if asked as payment for not considering > > term limits (somewhat plausible) or just the philanthropy following > > your newfound wealth (and I could pay 'taxes without debt) > > > > > > > I need an assurance that you don't take my 7.5 and the 10 for > > > voting against. You've already stated your intention to do so, so > > > it's reasonable to believe you will. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:17 PM > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > 7.5 is still the price to just shut up. I will accept a point > > > > transfer in that amount and vote my conscience quietly > > > > > > > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but accepting a > > > > > bribe is. > > > > > > > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points was to > > > > > make up for the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in on 204. I'm > > > > > 90% sure I've got my 4 votes without you, so the offer stands > > > > > at 10 points. You get the added bonus of me losing 10 points > > > > > besides. And the one point the scorekeeper would collect from > > > > > you is not due for 6 turns, so it shouldn't be too taxing on > > > > > you (pun somewhat intentional.) > > > > > > > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 minutes... > > > > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:50 AM To: Eugene > > > > > > > > Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . HE WILL BE > > > > > > > > > > > AWARDED one > > > > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N equals the > > > > > > > > > > > number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. His > > > > > > > > > salary is COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're trying > > > > > > > > > hard not to read the words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme for > > > > > > > > > > taxation. My theory is that payment must come from > > > > > > > > > > somewhere and my hunch is that it must come from > > > > > > > > > > somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the poor (if > > > > > > > > > > points are wealth) inforned about your need for > > > > > > > > > > votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:30:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:30:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 62662 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:30:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:30:29 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27570 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:30:28 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (reasons for delay Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:32:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00ccc4045170821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You're funny... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:37 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 312 (reasons for delay > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:40, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Instead of replying to that last email, I'll transfer 10 points to > > > your score if you drop all opposition and vote for my proposal. > This > > > is a one time offer. You'd get 10 for voting against it anyway, > and > > > if I were to pay you the fraction you contributed to my win, it > would > > > only be 2.5 points. > > Just ask why > > > > > > LAST CALL: This goes Final at noon (EST) All this discussion is going > > nowhere. If you have any constructive criticism, speak now, or don't. > > --e > > > > Scorekeeper: > > > > The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of > > maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. > > > > The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's > > score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score > > change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within > > 5 business days of the report. > > > > The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, > > each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the > > date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the > > adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. > > > > The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by > > the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point > > from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. > > > > The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A > > poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and > > each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be > > a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied > > applicants. > > > > The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and > > indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his > > discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught > > before the dispute period. > > > > The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A > > vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there > > has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is > > called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should > > be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The > > previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains > > scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981650322/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:31:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:31:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 80155 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:31:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:31:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:31:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27697 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:31:15 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:32:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00a944719170821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Here's a real gem... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:12 PM > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > That only equals what I would get voting no. (your deduction aside) > Where is your interest in doing this if you have the votes. Pick a > number higher than 10 and I'll consider. My vote NO message is > queud to send (who knows if F is still wavering) > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but accepting a bribe > > is. > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points was to make up for > > the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in on 204. I'm 90% sure I've got my > > 4 votes without you, so the offer stands at 10 points. You get the > > added bonus of me losing 10 points besides. And the one point the > > scorekeeper would collect from you is not due for 6 turns, so it > > shouldn't be too taxing on you (pun somewhat intentional.) > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 minutes... > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:50 AM > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . HE WILL BE AWARDED > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N equals the number > > > > > > > > of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. His salary is > > > > > > COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're trying hard not to read the > > > > > > words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme for taxation. My > > > > > > > theory is that payment must come from somewhere and my hunch > > > > > > > is that it must come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the poor (if points are > > > > > > > wealth) inforned about your need for votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:33:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:33:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 49572 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:33:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27963 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:33:52 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: And so without further ado... PROPOSAL 312 FINAL Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:35:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Scorekeeper: The office of scorekeeper shall be created for the purpose of maintaining and reporting the official score of the game. The scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change. Any disputes with the reported score must be announced within 5 business days of the report. The scorekeeping record shall consist of a detailed list of entries, each corresponding to a score adjustment. Each entry shall contain the date, the player's name, a brief description of the reason for the adjustment, and the positive or negative score adjustment. The scorekeeper is a public employee, and as such is hired and paid by the population. His salary is one point per turn, collected one point from each player after N turns, where N equals the number of players. The scorekeeper is selected from any applicants by the population. A poll shall be created with the names of perspective employees, and each player shall choose one. If the outcome is a tie, there shall be a runoff election, conducted in the same manner with only the tied applicants. The score maintained by the scorekeeper will be official and indisputable after the determined period. The scorekeeper may, at his discression, make adjustment records to remedy mistakes not caught before the dispute period. The scorekeeper is hired based on an infinately renewable contract. A vote of confidence can be called by any player at any time. If there has not been a vote of confidence for 10 turns, an automatic vote is called. If a majority of players believe that the scorekeeper should be replaced, a new one is chosen in the afformentioned manner. The previous scorekeeper is entitled to apply for the job, and remains scorekeeper until such time as a new scorekeeper is selected. From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 08 09:39:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 64328 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:39:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.48] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 17:39:11 -0000 Date: 8 Feb 2001 17:39:08 -0000 Message-ID: <981653948.386.36492.a8@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Should Proposal 312 become law? Full text in the list, and at http://www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.h tml#312 o Yes o Hell No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 09:54:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 17:54:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 10660 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 17:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00745; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:54:44 -0500 (EST) To: "Paul Kirkland" Cc: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: RE: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:56:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00ac33457170821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I was waiting for my wife to pick me up from BurgerKing, and I was bored... I wanted to see how big a points whore you were, and now I know. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:50 PM > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > Subject: Re: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Can you just satisfy my curiosity and tell me why you offered a > bribe in the first place. If you have enough votes, my vote was never > worth 10 points. > I was only persistent because I assumed you offered because you > needed it. > Otherwise you are trading 10 points for 2.5 > and you refused to offer 7.5 to essentially end the debate > Wait until after the vote if you think it matters but I am just > genuinely curious. > > I will reply to otherwise in public > > > Enough. Extortion & Blackmail vs. a simple tactical bribe? And a legal > > one at that... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:32 PM > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > how many votes are you sure of? > > > > > Nope. I don't care who knows. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:27 PM > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Would you offer 5 not to mention the bribery scheme. > > > > > > > > You can state your reason if asked as payment for not considering > > > > term limits (somewhat plausible) or just the philanthropy > > > > following your newfound wealth (and I could pay 'taxes without > > > > debt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need an assurance that you don't take my 7.5 and the 10 for > > > > > voting against. You've already stated your intention to do so, > > > > > so it's reasonable to believe you will. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:17 PM > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 7.5 is still the price to just shut up. I will accept a point > > > > > > transfer in that amount and vote my conscience quietly > > > > > > > > > > > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but accepting > > > > > > > a bribe is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points was to > > > > > > > make up for the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in on 204. I'm > > > > > > > 90% sure I've got my 4 votes without you, so the offer > > > > > > > stands at 10 points. You get the added bonus of me losing > > > > > > > 10 points besides. And the one point the scorekeeper would > > > > > > > collect from you is not due for 6 turns, so it shouldn't be > > > > > > > too taxing on you (pun somewhat intentional.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM > > > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 > > > > > > > > > minutes... > > > > > > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:50 AM To: Eugene > > > > > > > > > > Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . HE WILL > > > > > > > > > > > > > BE AWARDED one > > > > > > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N equals > > > > > > > > > > > > > the number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. His > > > > > > > > > > > salary is COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're trying > > > > > > > > > > > hard not to read the words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme for > > > > > > > > > > > > taxation. My theory is that payment must come from > > > > > > > > > > > > somewhere and my hunch is that it must come from > > > > > > > > > > > > somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the poor (if > > > > > > > > > > > > points are wealth) inforned about your need for > > > > > > > > > > > > votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 10:07:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:07:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 71731 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:07:40 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:24:49 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 12:17:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 12:16:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:16:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] RE: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00ac33457170821ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00d644924180821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 12:56, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Bullshit! You mean to say that you knew all along that there was no rationale for me to accept your offer. I kept it up to see if you would budge. I refused the initial 10 point offer because I preferred to vote on the merits. If you remember my original purpose was to try to get what I still think would have been a good change in the law. If you weren't willing to offer anything, case closed. I would know that you were sure had enough votes and it was a waste of time to try to get changes. You should have just said so. I am still not sure if I believe you. The requests for more points was for the sake of covering the tax. If everyone else wants a tax that I both disagree with and cannot yet afford why shouldn't I try to raise funds to pay it. > I was waiting for my wife to pick me up from BurgerKing, and I was > bored... I wanted to see how big a points whore you were, and now I > know. --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:50 PM > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > Subject: Re: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Can you just satisfy my curiosity and tell me why you offered a > > bribe in the first place. If you have enough votes, my vote was > > never worth 10 points. I was only persistent because I assumed you > > offered because you needed it. Otherwise you are trading 10 points > > for 2.5 and you refused to offer 7.5 to essentially end the debate > > Wait until after the vote if you think it matters but I am just > > genuinely curious. > > > > I will reply to otherwise in public > > > > > Enough. Extortion & Blackmail vs. a simple tactical bribe? And a > > > legal one at that... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:32 PM > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > how many votes are you sure of? > > > > > > > Nope. I don't care who knows. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:27 PM > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Would you offer 5 not to mention the bribery scheme. > > > > > > > > > > You can state your reason if asked as payment for not > > > > > considering term limits (somewhat plausible) or just the > > > > > philanthropy following your newfound wealth (and I could pay > > > > > 'taxes without debt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need an assurance that you don't take my 7.5 and the 10 > > > > > > for voting against. You've already stated your intention to > > > > > > do so, so it's reasonable to believe you will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:17 PM > > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7.5 is still the price to just shut up. I will accept a > > > > > > > point transfer in that amount and vote my conscience > > > > > > > quietly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but > > > > > > > > accepting a bribe is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points was > > > > > > > > to make up for the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in on > > > > > > > > 204. I'm 90% sure I've got my 4 votes without you, so > > > > > > > > the offer stands at 10 points. You get the added bonus > > > > > > > > of me losing 10 points besides. And the one point the > > > > > > > > scorekeeper would collect from you is not due for 6 > > > > > > > > turns, so it shouldn't be too taxing on you (pun > > > > > > > > somewhat intentional.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM To: Eugene > > > > > > > > > Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 > > > > > > > > > > minutes... > > > > > > > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Thursday, > > > > > > > > > > > February 08, 2001 11:50 AM To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . HE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WILL BE AWARDED one > > > > > > > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > equals the number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. His > > > > > > > > > > > > salary is COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're > > > > > > > > > > > > trying hard not to read the words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme for > > > > > > > > > > > > > taxation. My theory is that payment must come > > > > > > > > > > > > > from somewhere and my hunch is that it must > > > > > > > > > > > > > come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the poor > > > > > > > > > > > > > (if points are wealth) inforned about your > > > > > > > > > > > > > need for votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981654890/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 10:24:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:24:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 18260 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:24:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 18:24:28 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:24:26 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Message-ID: <95uo8q+jabe@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00d644924180821ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 7681 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... I didn't think anyone would burn through all their political capitol so quickly... Pick your battles, man, pick your battles. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:56, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Bullshit! > You mean to say that you knew all along that there was no > rationale for me to accept your offer. > I kept it up to see if you would budge. I refused the initial 10 point > offer because I preferred to vote on the merits. > If you remember my original purpose was to try to get what I still > think would have been a good change in the law. > If you weren't willing to offer anything, case closed. I would know > that you were sure had enough votes and it was a waste of time to > try to get changes. > You should have just said so. > I am still not sure if I believe you. > The requests for more points was for the sake of covering the tax. > If everyone else wants a tax that I both disagree with and cannot > yet afford why shouldn't I try to raise funds to pay it. > > > I was waiting for my wife to pick me up from BurgerKing, and I was > > bored... I wanted to see how big a points whore you were, and now I > > know. --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:50 PM > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Subject: Re: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > Can you just satisfy my curiosity and tell me why you offered a > > > bribe in the first place. If you have enough votes, my vote was > > > never worth 10 points. I was only persistent because I assumed you > > > offered because you needed it. Otherwise you are trading 10 points > > > for 2.5 and you refused to offer 7.5 to essentially end the debate > > > Wait until after the vote if you think it matters but I am just > > > genuinely curious. > > > > > > I will reply to otherwise in public > > > > > > > Enough. Extortion & Blackmail vs. a simple tactical bribe? And a > > > > legal one at that... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:32 PM > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > how many votes are you sure of? > > > > > > > > > Nope. I don't care who knows. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:27 PM > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you offer 5 not to mention the bribery scheme. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can state your reason if asked as payment for not > > > > > > considering term limits (somewhat plausible) or just the > > > > > > philanthropy following your newfound wealth (and I could pay > > > > > > 'taxes without debt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need an assurance that you don't take my 7.5 and the 10 > > > > > > > for voting against. You've already stated your intention to > > > > > > > do so, so it's reasonable to believe you will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:17 PM > > > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7.5 is still the price to just shut up. I will accept a > > > > > > > > point transfer in that amount and vote my conscience > > > > > > > > quietly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but > > > > > > > > > accepting a bribe is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points was > > > > > > > > > to make up for the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in on > > > > > > > > > 204. I'm 90% sure I've got my 4 votes without you, so > > > > > > > > > the offer stands at 10 points. You get the added bonus > > > > > > > > > of me losing 10 points besides. And the one point the > > > > > > > > > scorekeeper would collect from you is not due for 6 > > > > > > > > > turns, so it shouldn't be too taxing on you (pun > > > > > > > > > somewhat intentional.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM To: Eugene > > > > > > > > > > Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 > > > > > > > > > > > minutes... > > > > > > > > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Thursday, > > > > > > > > > > > > February 08, 2001 11:50 AM To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . HE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WILL BE AWARDED one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > equals the number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. His > > > > > > > > > > > > > salary is COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying hard not to read the words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taxation. My theory is that payment must come > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from somewhere and my hunch is that it must > > > > > > > > > > > > > > come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the poor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (if points are wealth) inforned about your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > need for votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981654890/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscrib From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 10:26:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Frederick_Hemker@m... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:26:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 90855 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsims2.senate.gov) (198.78.181.133) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:27:16 -0000 Received: from imaexc3.senate.gov (mail1.senate.gov) by mailsims2.senate.gov (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.07.30.00.05.p8) with ESMTP id <0G8G00GORBGTMN@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:31:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imaexc3.senate.gov (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 0000C298; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:12:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:23:07 -0500 Subject: Points Whore? To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <0000C298.C22181@m...> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: cc:Mail note part Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: Frederick_Hemker@m... (Frederick Hemker) From: f_hemker@h... Now I think that you will understand why I looked askance at the notion of the CM and am a strong proponent of term limits. Because we are all points whores, and I couldn't trust any of you further than I could throw you. All this nonsense reminds me of my job... -Fritz, Staff Assistant for Senator Frank H. Murkowski From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 10:35:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:35:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 16126 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:35:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:35:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:36:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05460 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:35:24 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Points Whore? Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:37:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <0000C298.C22181@m...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > All this nonsense reminds me of my job... It's a bit more fun though, I hope... > > -Fritz, Staff Assistant for Senator Frank H. Murkowski > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 10:38:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:38:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 57253 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:37:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 18:37:55 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:37:52 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sense of the Senate Message-ID: <95up20+9e9r@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 359 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... In the Senate there are some people who do not care for each other. The joke is that Sen. Barbara Boxer could offer a Sense of the Senate that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow and Sen. Murkowski would vote against it. Civility, even in the midst of disagreement, goes a long way in keeping other people from burning you every chance they get. - From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 10:55:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:55:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 8701 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:12:49 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:05:06 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:05:06 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:05:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Sense of the Senate Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95up20+9e9r@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 18:37, f_hemker@h... wrote: > In the Senate there are some people who do not care for each other. > The joke is that Sen. Barbara Boxer could offer a Sense of the Senate > that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow and Sen. Murkowski would > vote against it. Civility, even in the midst of disagreement, goes a > long way in keeping other people from burning you every chance they > get. > > - > I was up all night trying to coordinate criticisms into revisions on my dissertation and then I taught the Apology this morning beginning from 28b and not taking into acct "the danger of living or dying" or the final judgment of the city I guess Fred and Socrates and sleep deprivation did not put me in the most accomodating mood. So how big tax cut are we going to get? BTW, this is the problem of poverty I will try to be less of a gadfly in my impoverished state Hell, I might still vote for that proposal. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981657519/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 10:59:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 20674 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:59:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 18:59:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:59:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sense of the Senate Message-ID: <95uqam+ssj0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 109 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Paul, I can't believe you make enough money to even pay taxes now, let alone worry about a tax cut. -Frit From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 11:04:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 46866 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 19:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:04:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:21:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:13:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:13:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:13:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Sense of the Senate Priority: normal In-reply-to: <95uqam+ssj0@eGroups.com> References: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00b6b1421190821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 18:59, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Paul, > > I can't believe you make enough money to even pay taxes now, let alone > worry about a tax cut. > I am not thinking of my personal share of any tax cut just the good of the country. LIFE is not reducible to points whoring. I will spare further opinions on this matter for the sake of everyone, besides debating a tax cut here might get confusing. > -Frit > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981658777/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 08 11:14:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 19:14:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 43664 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:14:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 19:14:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:16:00 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10253 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:14:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Sense of the Senate Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:16:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm glad you replied first, Paul... I thought he was admonishing me for calling you a whore. > > In the Senate there are some people who do not care for each other. > > The joke is that Sen. Barbara Boxer could offer a Sense of the Senate > > that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow and Sen. Murkowski would > > vote against it. Civility, even in the midst of disagreement, goes a > > long way in keeping other people from burning you every chance they > > get. > > > > I was up all night trying to coordinate criticisms into revisions on > my dissertation and then I taught the Apology this morning > beginning from 28b and not taking into acct "the danger of living or > dying" or the final judgment of the city > I guess Fred and Socrates and sleep deprivation did not put me in > the most accomodating mood. > > So how big tax cut are we going to get? > > BTW, this is the problem of poverty > I will try to be less of a gadfly in my impoverished state > > Hell, I might still vote for that proposal. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981657519/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 11:27:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 19:27:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 79086 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 19:27:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:27:25 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:44:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:36:50 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:36:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:36:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Sense of the Senate Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00d403444190821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 14:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I'm glad you replied first, Paul... I thought he was admonishing me > for calling you a whore. Well I would accept an apology if it were offered, but I am pretty sure that F doesn't see whoring as a bad thing. I guess that's the libertarian position > > > > In the Senate there are some people who do not care for each > > > other. The joke is that Sen. Barbara Boxer could offer a Sense of > > > the Senate that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow and Sen. > > > Murkowski would vote against it. Civility, even in the midst of > > > disagreement, goes a long way in keeping other people from burning > > > you every chance they get. > > > > > > > I was up all night trying to coordinate criticisms into revisions on > > my dissertation and then I taught the Apology this morning beginning > > from 28b and not taking into acct "the danger of living or dying" or > > the final judgment of the city I guess Fred and Socrates and sleep > > deprivation did not put me in the most accomodating mood. > > > > So how big tax cut are we going to get? > > > > BTW, this is the problem of poverty > > I will try to be less of a gadfly in my impoverished state > > > > Hell, I might still vote for that proposal. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981657519/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981659698/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 08 11:31:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 19:31:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 27102 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:31:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 19:31:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:32:58 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:49:01 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:41:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 8 Feb 01 13:40:53 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:40:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Sense of the Senate Priority: normal References: <95up20+9e9r@eGroups.com> In-reply-to: <00cc74912190821ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00df10149190821ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 8 Feb 01, at 13:05, Paul Kirkland wrote: > On 8 Feb 01, at 18:37, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > In the Senate there are some people who do not care for each other. > > The joke is that Sen. Barbara Boxer could offer a Sense of the > > Senate that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow and Sen. > > Murkowski would vote against it. Civility, even in the midst of > > disagreement, goes a long way in keeping other people from burning > > you every chance they get. > > > > - > > > > I was up all night trying to coordinate criticisms into revisions on > my dissertation and then I taught the Apology this morning beginning > from 28b and not taking into acct "the danger of living or dying" or > the final judgment of the city I guess Fred and Socrates and sleep > deprivation did not put me in the most accomodating mood. > I will offer my half point to whoever can point out the hypocrisy of my use of the Apology in this explanation (appropriate refereces a bonus) > So how big tax cut are we going to get? > > BTW, this is the problem of poverty > I will try to be less of a gadfly in my impoverished state > > Hell, I might still vote for that proposal. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981657519/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981658543/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 08 11:46:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 8 Feb 2001 19:46:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 34474 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:45:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2001 19:45:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:45:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.124] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2001 19:45:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:45:55 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Sense of the Senate Message-ID: <95ut1j+9ff1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00d403444190821ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 312 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On 8 Feb 01, at 14:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Well I would accept an apology if it were offered, but I am pretty > sure that F doesn't see whoring as a bad thing. > I guess that's the libertarian position Easy there, Chuckles. -Fritz From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 08 18:00:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 01:59:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 66875 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 01:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 01:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 03:01:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.216]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f191xuk87258 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:59:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c0923b$e7de3880$d8a811d0@computer> To: References: <95uo8q+jabe@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:59:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Seriously, this is making me look prudent. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:24 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > I didn't think anyone would burn through all their political capitol > so quickly... > > Pick your battles, man, pick your battles. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:56, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Bullshit! > > You mean to say that you knew all along that there was no > > rationale for me to accept your offer. > > I kept it up to see if you would budge. I refused the initial 10 > point > > offer because I preferred to vote on the merits. > > If you remember my original purpose was to try to get what I still > > think would have been a good change in the law. > > If you weren't willing to offer anything, case closed. I would know > > that you were sure had enough votes and it was a waste of time to > > try to get changes. > > You should have just said so. > > I am still not sure if I believe you. > > The requests for more points was for the sake of covering the tax. > > If everyone else wants a tax that I both disagree with and cannot > > yet afford why shouldn't I try to raise funds to pay it. > > > > > I was waiting for my wife to pick me up from BurgerKing, and I was > > > bored... I wanted to see how big a points whore you were, and now > I > > > know. --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:50 PM > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > Subject: Re: FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Can you just satisfy my curiosity and tell me why you offered a > > > > bribe in the first place. If you have enough votes, my vote was > > > > never worth 10 points. I was only persistent because I assumed > you > > > > offered because you needed it. Otherwise you are trading 10 > points > > > > for 2.5 and you refused to offer 7.5 to essentially end the > debate > > > > Wait until after the vote if you think it matters but I am just > > > > genuinely curious. > > > > > > > > I will reply to otherwise in public > > > > > > > > > Enough. Extortion & Blackmail vs. a simple tactical bribe? And > a > > > > > legal one at that... > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:32 PM > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > how many votes are you sure of? > > > > > > > > > > > Nope. I don't care who knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:27 PM > > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 12:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you offer 5 not to mention the bribery scheme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can state your reason if asked as payment for not > > > > > > > considering term limits (somewhat plausible) or just the > > > > > > > philanthropy following your newfound wealth (and I could > pay > > > > > > > 'taxes without debt) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I need an assurance that you don't take my 7.5 and the > 10 > > > > > > > > for voting against. You've already stated your > intention to > > > > > > > > do so, so it's reasonable to believe you will. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 12:17 PM > > > > > > > > > To: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7.5 is still the price to just shut up. I will accept > a > > > > > > > > > point transfer in that amount and vote my conscience > > > > > > > > > quietly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So begging and extortion are not beneath you, but > > > > > > > > > > accepting a bribe is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, it's a gamble for me, but my offer of 10 points > was > > > > > > > > > > to make up for the 10 you'd lose by not cashing in > on > > > > > > > > > > 204. I'm 90% sure I've got my 4 votes without you, > so > > > > > > > > > > the offer stands at 10 points. You get the added > bonus > > > > > > > > > > of me losing 10 points besides. And the one point > the > > > > > > > > > > scorekeeper would collect from you is not due for 6 > > > > > > > > > > turns, so it shouldn't be too taxing on you (pun > > > > > > > > > > somewhat intentional.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clock's ticking... 5 minutes to go. > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 11:58 AM To: > Eugene > > > > > > > > > > > Ventimiglia Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:46, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really going for a coffee and a smoke... 10 > > > > > > > > > > > > minutes... > > > > > > > > > > > Can I bum a cigarette? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Thursday, > > > > > > > > > > > > > February 08, 2001 11:50 AM To: Eugene > Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Feb 01, at 11:15, Eugene Ventimiglia > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tick tock > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSAL PARAGRAPH 4: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The scorekeeper is a public OFFICER . > HE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WILL BE AWARDED one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point per turn, collected one point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from each player after N turns, where N > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > equals the number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's the scheme: the scorekeeper is PAID. > His > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salary is COLLECTED FROM EACH PLAYER. You're > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying hard not to read the words... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see caps for revision, OR devise a scheme > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > taxation. My theory is that payment must > come > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from somewhere and my hunch is that it > must > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > come from somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It might also be a good idea to keep the > poor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (if points are wealth) inforned about your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > need for votes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981654890/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscrib > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 09 07:32:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 15:32:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 89233 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 15:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 15:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 15:32:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 15:32:37 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:32:34 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: In the interest of levity... Message-ID: <9612ii+mi4o@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4073 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... let us break for a musical interlude: TITTIES & BEER by Frank Zappa It was the blackest night There was no moon in sight You know the stars ain't shinin' 'Cause the sky's too tight I heard the scarey wind I seen some ugly trees There was a werewolf honkin' 'Long the side of me I'm mean 'n I'm bad, y'know I ain't no sissy Got a big-titty girly by the name of Chrissy Talkin' about her 'n my bike 'n me... 'N this ride up the Mountain of Mystery, Mystery I noticed even the crickets Was actin' weird up here And So I figured I might Just drink a little beer I said, "Gimme summa that what yer suckin' on..." But there was no reply 'Cause she was gone... "Where's those titties that I like so well 'n my goddamn beer!" Is what I started to yell, then I heard this noise Like a crunchin' twig, 'n up jumped the Devil...he's about this big... He had a red suit on An' a widow's peak An' then a pointed tail 'N like a sulphur reek Yes, it was him awright I sweared I knowed it was He had some human flesh Stuck underneath his claws You know it looked to me Like it was titty skin I said, "You sonofabitch!" 'Cause I was mad at him, Well he just got out his floss 'N started cleanin' his fang So I shot him with my shooter Said: BANG BANG BANG Then the sucker just laughed 'n said, "Put it away... You know, I ate her all up...now what you gonna say?" YOU ATE MY CHRISSY? "Titties 'n all!" WELL, WHAT ABOUT THE BEER THEN, BOY? "Were the cans this tall?" EVEN HER BOOTS? "Would I lie to you?" SHIT, YOU MUSTA BEEN HUNGRY! "Yes, this is true." WELL DON'T THEY PAY YOU GOOD FOR THE STUFF THAT YOU DO? "Well, you know, I can't complain when the checks come through..." WELL I WANT MY CHRISSY, 'N I WANT MY BEER SO YOU JUST BARF IT BACK UP NOW, DEVIL, DO YOU HEAR? "Blow it out your ass, motorcycle man! I mean, I am the Devil, Do you understand? Just what will you give me for your Titties and beer? I suppose you noticed this little contract here..." YER GODDAM RIGHT, YOU SON-OF-A-WHORE, "Don't call me that" THAT'S ABOUT THE ONLY REASON ...GIMME THAT PAPER...BET YER ASS I'll SIGN... 'CAUSE I NEED A BEER, 'N IT'S TITTY-SQUEEZIN' TIME "Man, You can't fool me...you ain't that bad... I mean you shoulda seen some of the souls I had... Why there was Milhous Nixon 'n Agnew, too... 'n both of those suckers was worse 'n you..." WELL, LET'S MAKE A DEAL IF YOU THINK THAT'S TRUE I MEAN, YOU'RE THE DEVIL, SO WHATCHA GONNA DO? (improvised dialog) "Wait a minute...a tinge of doubt crosses my mind...when you say... that you want to make a deal with me..." "That's very, very true I'm only interested in two things "Yeah?" See if you can guess what they are" "I would think...uh...let's see, maybe Stravinsky..." "I'll give you two clues. Let go of your pickle" "What?" "Let go of your pickle!" "I'm not holding my pickle" "Well, who's holding your pickle then?" "I don't know...she's out in the audience... Hey Dale, would you like to come up here and hold my pickle to satisfy this weird man out on the stage?" "I'm only interested in two things, and that's titties and beer you know what I mean? "What?" titties and beer titties and beer titties and beer titties and beer titties and beer titties and beer titties and beer!" titties and beer!" "I don't know if you're the right guy?" titties and beer!" titties and beer!" "No! Don't sign it! Give me time to think... I mean hold on a second boy, 'cause that's magic ink!" And then the devil let go of his pickle and out come my girl, there was her titties flop-floppin'...all around the world She said "I got me three beers and a fistful of downs and I'm gonna get ripped, so fuck, you clowns!" Then she gave us the finger, it was rigid and stiff That's when the devil, he farted and she went right over the cliff! The devil was mad, I took off to my pad I swear I do declare, how did she get back there? I swear I do declare, how did she get back there? I swear I do declare, how did she get back there? I swear I do declare, how did she get back there? I swear I do declare, how did she get back there? From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 09 08:17:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 91573 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:17:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.4.68] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 16:17:44 -0000 Date: 9 Feb 2001 16:17:41 -0000 Message-ID: <981735461.506.54689.k6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Should Proposal 312 become law? Full text in the list, and at http://www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.h tml#312 CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 66.67% - Hell No, 2 votes, 33.33% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - f_hemker@h... - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - barturo@e... - Hell No - pkirklan@e... - sga5892@n... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 09 08:46:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 16:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 44308 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:46:34 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f19GkWE27840 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:46:32 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8I00AOP19JKF@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:46:47 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 11:46:46 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0928D.FB633200.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" who will conclude the turn now, since we do not have an official scorekeeper? if anyone is still interested in respecting my prior ruling, it would be eugene. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:18 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Should Proposal 312 become law? Full text in the list, and at http://www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.h tml#312 CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 66.67% - Hell No, 2 votes, 33.33% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - f_hemker@h... - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - barturo@e... - Hell No - pkirklan@e... - sga5892@n... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 08:49:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 16:49:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 82279 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:49:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19Gnmk59001 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:49:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401c092b8$391ccb40$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C0928D.FB633200.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:49:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" My guess would be that e is still the moderator until the scorekeeper is elected. and speaking of which... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:46 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > who will conclude the turn now, since we do not have an official > scorekeeper? if anyone is still interested in respecting my prior ruling, > it would be eugene. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:18 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Should Proposal 312 become law? Full > text in the list, and at > http://www.scatterbrains.com/proposals.h > tml#312 > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, 4 votes, 66.67% > - Hell No, 2 votes, 33.33% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Yes > - f_hemker@h... > - bernardo@c... > - eventi@n... > - barturo@e... > - Hell No > - pkirklan@e... > - sga5892@n... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 08:50:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 16:50:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 24342 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 16:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 16:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 16:50:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19Goak59233 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:50:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003801c092b8$55dc1ba0$c2a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:49:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0928E.6BCECC20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0928E.6BCECC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! My name is Patrick Bernardo. I am running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains= . If elected, I promise I'll be your friend. Thank you for your consideration. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0928E.6BCECC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!
 
My name is Patrick Bernardo.  I am ru= nning for=20 scorekeeper of Scatterbrains.  If elected, I promise I'll be your=20 friend.
 
Thank you for your consideration.
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C0928E.6BCECC20-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 09:06:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 17:06:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 1018 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:06:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 17:06:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:06:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA12903 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:06:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:08:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <9612ii+mi4o@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Thanks Fritz! Kinda like music on hold: Your call is very important to us, Please stay on the line for the next available technician. We appologize for the delay... > let us break for a musical interlude: > > TITTIES & BEER by Frank Zappa From barturo@e... Fri Feb 09 09:32:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 17:32:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 72961 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 17:32:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:32:30 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA16225 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:32:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT8D>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372E7@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:27:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C092BD.900206A0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092BD.900206A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else wants to be the keeper of the score?? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:50 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Hi! My name is Patrick Bernardo. I am running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains. If elected, I promise I'll be your friend. Thank you for your consideration. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092BD.900206A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I=20 think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else wants to= be=20 the keeper of the score??
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 = 11:50=20 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

Hi!
 
My name is Patrick Bernardo.  I am = running=20 for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains.  If elected, I promise I'll be you= r=20 friend.
 
Thank you for your consideration.=
 
 


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C092BD.900206A0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 09:54:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 17:54:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 34257 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:55:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA18407 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:54:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:56:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C09297.B30D6390" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372E7@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C09297.B30D6390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the new Rule, it has to be conducted with a poll... Let's give people some time to announce their intention to run -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:27 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper I think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else wants to be the keeper of the score?? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:50 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Hi! My name is Patrick Bernardo. I am running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains. If elected, I promise I'll be your friend. Thank you for your consideration. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C09297.B30D6390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By the=20 new Rule, it has to be conducted with a poll... Let's give people some time= to=20 announce their intention to run
 
 -----Original Message-----
Fr= om:=20 Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
Sent: Friday,= =20 February 09, 2001 12:27 PM
To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Elec= tion=20 of scorekeeper

I=20 think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else wants = to be=20 the keeper of the score??
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernardo= =20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 200= 1=20 11:50 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject:= =20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

Hi!
 
My name is Patrick Bernardo.  I a= m running=20 for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains.  If elected, I promise I'll be y= our=20 friend.
 
Thank you for your consideration.
 
 


To unsubscribe from this group, send an em= ail=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C09297.B30D6390-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 09:59:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 17:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 95473 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 17:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:59:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:16:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:08:33 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:08:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:08:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002301c0923b$e7de3880$d8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00e1e0516180921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" P I think i got a bad sense of the spirit of the game by entering amidst your dispute p From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 10:01:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:01:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 1205 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:01:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:18:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:10:32 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:10:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:10:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9612ii+mi4o@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00e530418180921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" that's just what this city is missing titties and beer From barturo@e... Fri Feb 09 10:04:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:04:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 10446 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:04:22 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19487 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:04:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT8G>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EA@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.038BD3E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.038BD3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:56 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper By the new Rule, it has to be conducted with a poll... Let's give people some time to announce their intention to run -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:27 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper I think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else wants to be the keeper of the score?? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:50 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Hi! My name is Patrick Bernardo. I am running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains. If elected, I promise I'll be your friend. Thank you for your consideration. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.038BD3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:56= =20 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

By=20 the new Rule, it has to be conducted with a poll... Let's give people som= e=20 time to announce their intention to run
 
 -----Original=20 Message-----
From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
Sent: Friday, February = 09,=20 2001 12:27 PM
To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
Subject= :=20 RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

I=20 think if you really want to run maybe a poll is in order. Who else want= s to=20 be the keeper of the score??
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick D. Bernar= do=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2= 001=20 11:50 AM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

Hi!
 
My name is Patrick Bernardo.  I= am=20 running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains.  If elected, I promise= I'll=20 be your friend.
 
Thank you for your=20 consideration.
 
 


To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.038BD3E0-- From barturo@e... Fri Feb 09 10:07:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:07:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 19191 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:08:51 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19860 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:07:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT8H>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:02:38 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EB@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:02:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.7CA0AF30" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.7CA0AF30 Content-Type: text/plain Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is covered. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... that's just what this city is missing titties and beer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.7CA0AF30 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well=20 Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is=20 covered.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001= 1:10=20 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity...

that= 's=20 just what this city is missing
titties and beer


To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C2.7CA0AF30-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 10:09:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:09:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 45827 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:09:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:25:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:18:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 12:18:00 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:17:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EA@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <010995925180921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Since there is no specific time limit for nominations and announcements should there be an unofficial time limit From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 10:17:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 45165 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:17:34 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20882 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:17:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:19:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <010995925180921ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" If all agree, how about by Monday Midnight(EST)? > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper > > > Since there is no specific time limit for nominations and > announcements should there be an unofficial time limit > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 10:19:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:19:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 50085 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:20:26 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA21060 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:19:21 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Re: In the interest of levity... Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:20:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0929B.2241D5E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EB@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0929B.2241D5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And let's just hope the titties are NOT covered You guys are making it too easy. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:03 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is covered. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... that's just what this city is missing titties and beer To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0929B.2241D5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And=20 let's just hope the titties are NOT covered
 
You=20 guys are making it too easy.
    --e
-----Original Message-----
From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
Sent: Friday, February = 09,=20 2001 1:03 PM
To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
Subject:= =20 RE: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity...

Well=20 Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is=20 covered.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
Sent: Friday, February 09, 20= 01=20 1:10 PM
To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
Subject: = Re:=20 [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity...

th= at's=20 just what this city is missing
titties and beer


= To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




* NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0929B.2241D5E0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 10:25:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:25:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 88949 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA21646 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:25:12 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Unofficial Score Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:26:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01C0929B.F3ED1140" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C0929B.F3ED1140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hopefully the last... SA & PK: Ten points each for 204. EV: (4/6)*15 = 10 points for the Rule The full report is attatched and always at: http://www.scatterbrains.com/scores.html ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C0929B.F3ED1140 Content-Type: text/html; name="scores.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="scores.html" =09=09 S ca tte rb r ai n s -- Nomic The Scores

The Scores

...
Main M= enu
  • Rule= s
  • Ar= chive
  • = Proposals
  • Sco= res
  • Polls
  • = Messages
  • XML Source
  • Reg= enerate Pages from Source

  • Links
    These are important sites one should not be without!

  • The Yahoo G= roups Page
  • The Origi= nal Ruleset
  • Bug tracking system
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  • Debian ISO image site
  • Really super scie= ntific stuff
  • Always wear pants...

  • =3D''
      
    =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20
    Bob Arturo2001/= 01/13Introduction of Steven+5
    Bob Arturo2001/= 01/16Rule 308 Passed+15
    eventi2000/12/1= 6Rule 301 Passed+= 10
    eventi2000/12/2= 1Rule 305 passed+= 14
    eventi2000/12/2= 8Introduction of Bob+5
    eventi2001/01/0= 9Rule 307 Passed+= 15
    eventi2001/01/2= 4Vote against 309= +10
    eventi2001/02/0= 9Rule 312 Passed+= 10
    Fritz Hemker200= 1/02/05Rule 311 Passed+9
    Fritz Hemker200= 1/02/05Vote against 311+10
    Fritz Hemker200= 1/02/06Transfer 1001-0.5
    pat2000/12/18Rule 304 passed+13<= /td>
    pat2001/01/04Introduction of Fritz+5
    pat2001/01/04Rule 306 passed+15<= /td>
    pat2001/01/24Vote against 309+10=
    pat2001/01/31Proposal 310 did not pass-10
    pat2001/02/05Introduction of Paul+5
    Paul Kirkland20= 01/02/06Transfer 1001+0.5
    Paul Kirkland20= 01/02/09Vote against 312+10
    Steven Arturo20= 01/01/24Rule 309 Passed+9
    Steven Arturo20= 01/02/05Vote against 311+10
    Steven Arturo20= 01/02/09Vote against 312+10

      
    This space for Rent
    If anyone can think of something to put here, let me kno= w

    Subscribe
    email address

    Don't have an account yet? As registered user you have = some advantages like yada yada, e-hoo-haa configuration and flarbing fleogr= les with your frop.

    =3D''


    Any bugs should be reported to eventi
    This design ripped off from Debian Planet
    *
    mug mug mug
    coffee mug - gonna clear away the haze - liquid proof - that i can win th= is race
    coffee mug - the grip that keeps me tall - my inter-link - keeps me quest= ing all
    i don't need no booze or drugs i just chug-a-lug-o my coffee mug and = i don't need your kiss and hug i just chug-a-lug- my coffee mug
    they haven't banned - my liquid drug of choice - there's too many hooked= - and they've got too much voice
    so for the moment - we're all pretty good to go - with 98 cups - with 98 = more to go
    i don't need no booze or drugs i just chug-a-lug-o my coffee mug and = i don't need your kiss and hug i just chug-a-lug- my coffee mug
    here a bean, there a bean everywhere a mean mean bean chug-a-lug -o- m= y coffee-mug, mug, mug, mug
    *
    buy me beer
    =09=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C0929B.F3ED1140-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 10:30:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 88093 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:30:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:30:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 18:30:29 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA22147 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:30:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:32:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00e1e0516180921ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Dude- Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope you did, I'm not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > P > > I think i got a bad sense of the spirit of the game by entering > amidst your dispute > > p > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Fri Feb 09 10:38:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:38:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 53835 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:39:33 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22916 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:38:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT8J>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:22 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EC@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:33:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C092C6.C7C63710" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C6.C7C63710 Content-Type: text/plain That's good for me -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:19 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper If all agree, how about by Monday Midnight(EST)? > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper > > > Since there is no specific time limit for nominations and > announcements should there be an unofficial time limit > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C6.C7C63710 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    That's=20 good for me
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:19=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

    If all ag= ree,=20 how about by Monday Midnight(EST)?

    > -----Original=20 Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1= :18=20 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper
    >
    >
    > Since t= here=20 is no specific time limit for nominations and
    > announcements shou= ld=20 there be an unofficial time limit
    >
    >
    > To unsubscrib= e=20 from this group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    =

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C092C6.C7C63710-- From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 09 10:40:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 18:40:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 59548 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 18:40:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 18:40:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:41:51 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f19Iei101334 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:40:44 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8I00E7Y6JVYD@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:40:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:40:59 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:40:59 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0929D.EFD4DF00.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" fine by me -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:33 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper That's good for me -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:19 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper If all agree, how about by Monday Midnight(EST)? > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper > > > Since there is no specific time limit for nominations and > announcements should there be an unofficial time limit > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... << File: ATT00008.htm >> From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 09 11:50:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 19:50:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 97399 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 19:50:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:50:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.121] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2001 19:50:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:50:47 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New Computer Message-ID: <961hmn+l3qp@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 108 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Just finished installing my new G4 Cube in the office.... We're going to see some mad posting now. -Fritz From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 11:51:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 19:51:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 19285 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 19:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:52:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19Jotk76346 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:50:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c092d1$86e13460$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:50:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" OK. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper > If all agree, how about by Monday Midnight(EST)? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:18 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper > > > > > > Since there is no specific time limit for nominations and > > announcements should there be an unofficial time limit > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 11:54:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 19:54:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 7673 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 19:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:55:49 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19Jsgk76580 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:54:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501c092d2$0c72a000$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <00e1e0516180921ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:53:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Yeah, you kind of came in like a hurricane, but remember your Hobbes. Politics isn't so much about *you*, but about the "publick Person" that you create. It's got less to do with the spirit of the game - which is kind of legalistic and bickering is certainly part of it - than the fact that you were creating a first impression. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > P > > I think i got a bad sense of the spirit of the game by entering > amidst your dispute > > p > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 11:56:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 19:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 87931 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 19:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:57:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:13:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:05:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:05:21 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:05:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00e1e0516180921ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <010140013200921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 13:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Dude- > Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope you > did, I'm > not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... > > Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > yeah I only kept it up for the fun of it As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry through on the "threat'" The other mistake was the rational assumption that you needed the vote or wouldn't have bothered. I think our pionts selling converstaion of yesterday is a fine example of bad negotiating on both of our parts. I don't think the implied messages of either of our offers was clear to the other. As to "going public" I need to work on a the public private distinction. I started out unclear on whether private communication was permitted by convention if not prohibited by law. (If I had know otherwise, I probably woudl have tried the rounding thing in private too with someone willling to test the expanding points theory until I was sure I had some support) I thought Patrick would play along to further test the lack of authority in the system. If I was doing it now I would have put it that way in private. I thought that was frowned upon. BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to judgment I joined in the middle of For the recond (not that i think anyone cares) I DID start out with a real reason for challenging the payment aspect of the proposal. (sarcastically in relation to Honors v. Wealth , and seriously in connection to commerce possibilities in the city of Scatterbrains E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope I am not B. Boxer yet. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:08 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > > > P > > > > I think i got a bad sense of the spirit of the game by entering > > amidst your dispute > > > > p > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981743455/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 11:59:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 19:59:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 97015 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 19:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:00:46 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA01186 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:59:40 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New Computer Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:01:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <961hmn+l3qp@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" That's one fine piece of Acrylic... BTW- before Jobs demo'd it at MacWorld, there was speculation that it was really an upside-down acrylic wastepaper basket, mocked up by some graphic artist. > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:51 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New Computer > > > Just finished installing my new G4 Cube in the office.... > > We're going to see some mad posting now. > > -Fritz > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 12:01:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:01:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 2105 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:02:35 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:18:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:10:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:10:39 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:10:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002501c092d2$0c72a000$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00dc72818200921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 14:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Yeah, you kind of came in like a hurricane, but remember your Hobbes. > Politics isn't so much about *you*, but about the "publick Person" > that you create. It's got less to do with the spirit of the game - > which is kind of legalistic and bickering is certainly part of it - > than the fact that you were creating a first impression. > > See yest note on Niet and apology. wrong pol phil at the wrong time. I got my class to put Soc to death in the morning (and maybe me too). I hope I can at least salvage him. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > P > > > > I think i got a bad sense of the spirit of the game by entering > > amidst your dispute > > > > p > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981748484/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 12:02:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:02:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 35885 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:03:48 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19K2fk77405 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:02:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003701c092d3$2a38e3a0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <00e1e0516180921ISWEBNT@d...> <010140013200921ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:01:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > through on the "threat'" > There was nothing wrong with "going public". But you did it in kind of a frenzied fashion. I got back from Husserl class to find 20something messages on my computer. Sporadically, inside these messages, there was contained some weird partial quotes about some kind of point-vote swapping deal. There was more traces of an expose rather than an actual "going public." I felt kind of like I was reading an Umberto Eco novel, or a Derrida essay. > I thought Patrick would play along to > further test the lack of authority in the system. If I was doing it now > I would have put it that way in private. I thought that was frowned > upon. > Uh, Paul. If it *were* frowned upon, how would anyone know, given that you did it privately? > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. > [see above] > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > judgment I joined in the middle of > Oh, now, playing the victim. Remember - my call to judgement had some merit (Fritz's opinion aside). > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > I am not B. Boxer yet. > We can all hope that. From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 12:06:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 61712 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:08:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA01947 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:56 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:08:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <010140013200921ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" On 9 Feb 01, at 13:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Dude- > > Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope you > > did, I'm > > not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... > > > > Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > > > yeah I only kept it up for the fun of it > > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > through on the "threat'" > > ... > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. Sucks doesn't it. > > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > judgment I joined in the middle of > > For the recond (not that i think anyone cares) I DID start out with a > real reason for challenging the payment aspect of the proposal. > (sarcastically in relation to Honors v. Wealth , and seriously in > connection to commerce possibilities in the city of Scatterbrains > > > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > I am not B. Boxer yet. I don't have the energy for that... I probably would have ignored you if it wasn't my proposal, and I wasn't so friggin stuck on this program I'm working on. I dare say SA & BA did. --e From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 12:14:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:14:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 80636 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:15:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA02606 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:14:02 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:15:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C092AB.27EB0330" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <003801c092b8$55dc1ba0$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C092AB.27EB0330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to officially state my intentions _not_ to seek office at this time, and announce my support for Pat Bernardo for the office of scorekeeper. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 11:50 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper Hi! My name is Patrick Bernardo. I am running for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains. If elected, I promise I'll be your friend. Thank you for your consideration. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C092AB.27EB0330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I'd=20 like to officially state my intentions _not_ to seek office at this time, a= nd=20 announce my support for Pat Bernardo for the office of=20 scorekeeper.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 = 11:50=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Election of scorekeeper

    Hi!
     
    My name is Patrick Bernardo.  I am = running=20 for scorekeeper of Scatterbrains.  If elected, I promise I'll be you= r=20 friend.
     
    Thank you for your consideration.=
     
     


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01C092AB.27EB0330-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 12:16:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:16:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 64574 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:17:26 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:18 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:25:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:25:45 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:25:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003701c092d3$2a38e3a0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <010481833200921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:05 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > > through on the "threat'" > > > There was nothing wrong with "going public". But you did it in kind > of a frenzied fashion. I got back from Husserl class to find > 20something messages on my computer. Sporadically, inside these > messages, there was contained some weird partial quotes about some > kind of point-vote swapping deal. There was more traces of an expose > rather than an actual "going public." I felt kind of like I was > reading an Umberto Eco novel, or a Derrida essay. > > > I thought Patrick would play along to > > further test the lack of authority in the system. If I was doing it > > now I would have put it that way in private. I thought that was > > frowned upon. > > > > Uh, Paul. If it *were* frowned upon, how would anyone know, given > that you did it privately? > Uh, Patrick doesn't the context answer that question > > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. > > > > [see above] > > > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > > judgment I joined in the middle of > > > Oh, now, playing the victim. Remember - my call to judgement had some > merit (Fritz's opinion aside). Yes, I admit it had merit, dammit I was just trying to say that I now think I have a modified sense of the spirit and that part of my lost point was to point out the merits of your case and thus the need for some position with power That was the only point to my rounding theory, that was why I thought you would play along. I thought it had merits too, but the "implied preference of the law for integer scoring was trumped by the expressed preference of the lawmaker otherwise. > > > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > > I am not B. Boxer yet. > > > We can all hope that. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981748965/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 12:21:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 86169 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:21:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:38:46 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:31:16 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:30:53 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:30:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <010140013200921ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00e534638200921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Dude- > > > Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope > > > you did, I'm > > > not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... > > > > > > Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > > > > > yeah I only kept it up for the fun of it > > > > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > > through on the "threat'" > > > ... > > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. > > Sucks doesn't it. > > > > > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > > judgment I joined in the middle of > > > > For the recond (not that i think anyone cares) I DID start out with > > a real reason for challenging the payment aspect of the proposal. > > (sarcastically in relation to Honors v. Wealth , and seriously in > > connection to commerce possibilities in the city of Scatterbrains > > > > > > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > > I am not B. Boxer yet. > > I don't have the energy for that... I probably would have ignored you > if it wasn't my proposal, and I wasn't so friggin stuck on this > program I'm working on. Ah, the effects of real world difficulties. You should have to make sense of dissertation readers whose criticisms seem to be in complete conflict with themselves. (no sarcastic reply necessary I already hear it) I dare say SA & BA did. thank god > --e > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981749219/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 12:22:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:22:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 79958 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:22:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19KMAk79165 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:22:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005801c092d5$e2a000c0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <010481833200921ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:21:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 9 Feb 01, at 15:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > I thought Patrick would play along to > > > further test the lack of authority in the system. If I was doing it > > > now I would have put it that way in private. I thought that was > > > frowned upon. > > Uh, Paul. If it *were* frowned upon, how would anyone know, given > > that you did it privately? > > > Uh, Patrick doesn't the context answer that question > Only if you assume that you would have offered me in on the idea, and I would have been so *shocked and appalled* that I immediately blew your cover. So why didn't you take the 17.5 points that Eug was offering you to vote for his prop? > That was the only point to my rounding theory, that was why I > thought you would play along. I thought it had merits too, but the > "implied preference of the law for integer scoring was trumped by > the expressed preference of the lawmaker otherwise. > > But "the lawmaker" with the "expressed preference" was *ME*!!!! From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 09 12:28:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:27:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 17895 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:27:54 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f19KRp112257 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:27:51 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8I00I6YBIE16@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:27:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:28:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:28:06 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C092AC.E73DEF80.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" y'all can toss the salad and choose the dressing... ill be the one complaining later that the lettuce is limp steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:09 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER On 9 Feb 01, at 13:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Dude- > > Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope you > > did, I'm > > not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... > > > > Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > > > yeah I only kept it up for the fun of it > > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > through on the "threat'" > > ... > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. Sucks doesn't it. > > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > judgment I joined in the middle of > > For the recond (not that i think anyone cares) I DID start out with a > real reason for challenging the payment aspect of the proposal. > (sarcastically in relation to Honors v. Wealth , and seriously in > connection to commerce possibilities in the city of Scatterbrains > > > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > I am not B. Boxer yet. I don't have the energy for that... I probably would have ignored you if it wasn't my proposal, and I wasn't so friggin stuck on this program I'm working on. I dare say SA & BA did. --e To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 12:31:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:31:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 82723 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:31:34 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04297 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:31:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:33:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01C092AC.E73DEF80.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This calls for a SubGenius response: I've sired space monsters across Asia, I cook and *eat* my dead; *Yip, yip, YEEEEEEE!* I'm the Unshaven Thorn Tree of a corporate galaxy! YEEE HAW! Whoop! I'm ready! I pay no taxes! Yes, I'm a Crime Fighting Master Criminal! Who'll blow me down, whose candle will I fart out? I'll freeze *your* spew before it hits the bathroom tile! I bend *crowbars* with my meat ax and a thought. > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:28 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > > y'all can toss the salad and choose the dressing... > > ill be the one complaining later that the lettuce is limp > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:09 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Dude- > > > Seriously, NO HARD FEELINGS!!! It's a game. I had fun, I hope you > > > did, I'm > > > not sure if the spectators did, but whatever.... > > > > > > Don't think I won't hold it against you in the game, though. ;) > > > > > yeah I only kept it up for the fun of it > > > > As to spectators: Clearly my biggest mistake was going public. I > > pretty much knew it woudl serve no function. But, I had to carry > > through on the "threat'" > > > ... > > BTW I don't think my sarcastic tone comes across in writing as > > much as I think it does, at least to those of you I do not know. > > Sucks doesn't it. > > > > > and I seriously did get my sense of the tone from the call to > > judgment I joined in the middle of > > > > For the recond (not that i think anyone cares) I DID start out with a > > real reason for challenging the payment aspect of the proposal. > > (sarcastically in relation to Honors v. Wealth , and seriously in > > connection to commerce possibilities in the city of Scatterbrains > > > > > > E, of course you should hold it against me in the game, I just hope > > I am not B. Boxer yet. > > I don't have the energy for that... I probably would have ignored > you if it > wasn't my proposal, and I wasn't so friggin stuck on this program I'm > working on. I dare say SA & BA did. > --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 12:32:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:32:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 31623 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:32:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19KWqk80187 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:32:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007601c092d7$6198c640$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:32:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER > This calls for a SubGenius response: > > I've sired space monsters across Asia, I cook and *eat* my dead; *Yip, yip, > YEEEEEEE!* I'm the Unshaven Thorn Tree of a corporate galaxy! YEEE HAW! > Whoop! I'm ready! I pay no taxes! Yes, I'm a Crime Fighting Master Criminal! > Who'll blow me down, whose candle will I fart out? I'll freeze *your* spew > before it hits the bathroom tile! I bend *crowbars* with my meat ax and a > thought. > One of yours? Or a saved alt.slack post? From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 12:33:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:33:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 17586 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:33:42 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:50:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:43:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 14:42:58 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:42:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005801c092d5$e2a000c0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <010c03950200921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:21, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 9 Feb 01, at 15:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > I thought Patrick would play along to > > > > further test the lack of authority in the system. If I was > > > > doing it now I would have put it that way in private. I thought > > > > that was frowned upon. > > > Uh, Paul. If it *were* frowned upon, how would anyone know, given > > > that you did it privately? > > > > > Uh, Patrick doesn't the context answer that question > > > Only if you assume that you would have offered me in on the idea, and > I would have been so *shocked and appalled* that I immediately blew > your cover. No but I assumed something more like: please keep all communicatino about Nomic in Nomic. Besides I was writing to you about the Apology instead. > > So why didn't you take the 17.5 points that Eug was offering you to > vote for his prop? that was not the offer > > > That was the only point to my rounding theory, that was why I > > thought you would play along. I thought it had merits too, but the > > "implied preference of the law for integer scoring was trumped by > > the expressed preference of the lawmaker otherwise. > > > > > But "the lawmaker" with the "expressed preference" was *ME*!!!! > No shit. It was you I tried to get in on it first. The 2.5 as a half of your introduction rewad was cover I tried to send it at a time where you would be most likely to see it first and tried to communicate it indirectly for fun. It wasn't for points. If we had set up a back and forth exchange, it could and I assume would have been challenged under 311, but it might have helped the case for the need for a stronger executive (again, your case) (and I might have been able to keep the orginal 2.5 (or 3) points under the guise of a joining gift from my introducer. p > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981750134/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 09 12:35:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 20:35:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 21133 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:35:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 20:35:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:36:09 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04661 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:35:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] FW: Re: OFF LIST OFFER Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:36:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <007601c092d7$6198c640$c7a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Better: http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/brag > > > One of yours? Or a saved alt.slack post? From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:13:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:13:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 34955 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:14:42 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:30:33 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:23:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:22:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:22:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: extra political goods Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EB@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00fda3330230921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: have a good weekend all enjoy the beer It would have made a great currency > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > covered. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > that's just what this city is missing > titties and beer > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 088:N/ > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af=31 > 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:16:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:16:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 92464 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:16:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:33:01 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:25:33 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:25:19 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:25:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] extra political goods Priority: normal References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372EB@BATMAN> In-reply-to: <00fda3330230921ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <011140133230921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 17:22, Paul Kirkland wrote: > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > have a good weekend all > enjoy the beer > > It would have made a great currency > p.s we can do the poll as soon as everyone expresses their intention OR monday midnight right? surprise surprise, I have no intention to run > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > > covered. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > > > > that's just what this city is missing > > titties and beer > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > 57 088:N/ > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af= > > 31 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > ai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981760420/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Fri Feb 09 15:26:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:26:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 65839 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:26:06 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1A0NKB25891 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:23:20 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA25710; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:26:05 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Question about turn end Message-Id: <15308871.1350@w...> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:26:05 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... I think that my turn is over, and Bobby's has begun. My only problem is that 'scoring' is one of the four parts of a turn, and it hasn't been officially done yet. Since Prop 312 necame law after the vote(205), it may be necessary for the scorekeeper to 'score' the turn before my turn is considered over, and Bobby's begins. Is it necessary for the SK to record the score to end the proponant's turn? Just sorta interrested in all of your opinions on this. I'm almost certain that BA will have his proposal in within 5 business days of today. From eventi@w... Fri Feb 09 15:40:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:40:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 50231 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:40:07 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1A0bLB31631 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:37:21 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA02734; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:40:06 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] extra political goods In-Reply-To: 33230921 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1354@w...> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:40:05 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... I was going to suggest that. If Steven, Bob, and Fritz would state their intentions, we can poll ASAP, or skip it if it's only Pat. On 9 Feb 01, at 17:22, Paul Kirkland wrote: > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > have a good weekend all > enjoy the beer > > It would have made a great currency > p.s we can do the poll as soon as everyone expresses their intention OR monday midnight right? surprise surprise, I have no intention to run > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > > covered. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > > > > that's just what this city is missing > > titties and beer > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > 57 088:N/ > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af= > > 31 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > ai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981760420/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:41:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2765 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:42:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:58:46 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:51:17 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:51:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:51:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Priority: normal In-reply-to: <15308871.1350@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00e944658230921ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:26, eventi@w... wrote: i was going to ask you that, but along with it, does the scorekeeper need to make the current unofficial score immediately and does he get paid for it. Does this depend on whether it is part of the scoring and thus part of this turn? i would lean toward interpreting it as part of a turn, it is "scoring". I think we should answer this rather than leave it open assuming Bobby announces a proposal that is "in time " either way. The only other situation in which it might matter would be if there was a questino as to who would be judge. But, if the scorekeeper had an interest in this he has two days to do the official scoring. > I think that my turn is over, and Bobby's has begun. My only problem > is that 'scoring' is one of the four parts of a turn, and it hasn't > been officially done yet. Since Prop 312 necame law after the > vote(205), it may be necessary for the scorekeeper to 'score' the turn > before my turn is considered over, and Bobby's begins. > Is it necessary for the SK to record the score to end the > proponant's turn? Just sorta interrested in all of your opinions on > this. I'm almost certain that BA will have his proposal in within 5 > business days of today. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981761169/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Fri Feb 09 15:41:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:41:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 64955 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 00:43:02 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1A0dBB32472 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:39:11 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA03757; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:41:56 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Buy me a Beer (dot com) In-Reply-To: 30230921 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1355@w...> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:41:56 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Ok: Stupid business idea... buymeabeer.com Websites and Bars register for a micro-payment system: Click a link on the site, and the webmaster gets a free beer at his favorite bar on you... Many details to work out. Affiliate sites: caniget60centsforthebus.com spare-a-smoke.com hookabrotherup.com ------ From: Subject:[scatterbrains] extra political goods[3A847F45] On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: have a good weekend all enjoy the beer It would have made a great currency > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > covered. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > that's just what this city is missing > titties and beer > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 088:N/ > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af=31 > 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:44:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:44:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 71217 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:44:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:44:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:44:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:01:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:53:46 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:53:38 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:53:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] extra political goods Priority: normal References: 33230921 In-reply-to: <15308871.1354@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00fba1401000a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:40, eventi@w... wrote: > I was going to suggest that. If Steven, Bob, and Fritz would state > their intentions, we can poll ASAP, or skip it if it's only Pat. > that was what I meant, especially a good idea in light of your latest concern. This woudl let us get on to new things more quickly > On 9 Feb 01, at 17:22, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > have a good weekend all > > enjoy the beer > > > > It would have made a great currency > > > > p.s we can do the poll as soon as everyone expresses their > intention OR monday midnight right? > surprise surprise, I have no intention to run > > > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > > > covered. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > > > > > > > that's just what this city is missing > > > titties and beer > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > 00 57 088:N/ > > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?A > > > f= 31 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > > > > pm ai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are > > > not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981760420/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981762009/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 09 15:46:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:46:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 91703 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:46:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:46:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:46:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f19NkUk30631 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:46:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c092f2$6ebb8d60$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1355@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Buy me a Beer (dot com) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:45:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, Eug, that's a pretty damn good idea. The part would be working it out. But it could work sort of like Paypal, if you run it right. People "buy" a drink on Thursday, the drink is cashed in on Saturday, and with enough of this, you make tons on the 2 days of interest. It'll work well if you can get enough places to sign up, obviously. Also, you could market it to/through the online dating services and chat rooms where people are meeting each other across the country... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Buy me a Beer (dot com) > Ok: Stupid business idea... > > buymeabeer.com > > Websites and Bars register for a micro-payment system: Click a link on the site, and the webmaster gets a free beer at his favorite bar on you... Many details to work out. > > Affiliate sites: > caniget60centsforthebus.com > spare-a-smoke.com > hookabrotherup.com > > ------ > From: > Subject:[scatterbrains] extra political goods[3A847F45] > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > have a good weekend all > enjoy the beer > > It would have made a great currency > > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > > covered. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > > > > that's just what this city is missing > > titties and beer > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > 088:N/ > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af=31 > > 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:48:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:48:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 80685 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:48:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:48:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:05:11 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:57:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 17:57:26 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:57:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Buy me a Beer (dot com) Priority: normal References: 30230921 In-reply-to: <15308871.1355@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0117e1105000a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 15:41, eventi@w... wrote: > Ok: Stupid business idea... > > buymeabeer.com > > Websites and Bars register for a micro-payment system: Click a link on > the site, and the webmaster gets a free beer at his favorite bar on > you... Many details to work out. That's a damn good stupid business idea. Call Poor Phil's on Oak Park ave in Oak park ave if you get it started, make sure they are in for it.. Hmm...Maybe I will go check myself. > > Affiliate sites: > caniget60centsforthebus.com > spare-a-smoke.com > hookabrotherup.com > > ------ > From: > Subject:[scatterbrains] extra political goods[3A847F45] > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > have a good weekend all > enjoy the beer > > It would have made a great currency > > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be tomorrow. So the beer is > > covered. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the interest of levity... > > > > > > that's just what this city is missing > > titties and beer > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > 57 088:N/ > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af= > > 31 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > ai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981762118/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 09 15:53:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 9 Feb 2001 23:53:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 93053 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 23:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2001 23:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 23:53:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:10:08 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 18:02:40 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Feb 01 18:02:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 18:02:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Buy me a Beer (dot com) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001101c092f2$6ebb8d60$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <010c10810000a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Feb 01, at 18:45, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: Now we're thinking real community serivice. I'd buy you a beer right now for thinking of it, e. and pat's right How many other idiots are talking to each other from un "beer- buyable range" online? of course getting the bars is the problem, as a business idea it just might work with those damn chain places like Chili's TGI Friday's Speaking of which, this time I mean it, time for a real beer > Actually, Eug, that's a pretty damn good idea. The part would be > working it out. But it could work sort of like Paypal, if you run it > right. People "buy" a drink on Thursday, the drink is cashed in on > Saturday, and with enough of this, you make tons on the 2 days of > interest. > > It'll work well if you can get enough places to sign up, obviously. > Also, you could market it to/through the online dating services and > chat rooms where people are meeting each other across the country... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 6:41 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Buy me a Beer (dot com) > > > > Ok: Stupid business idea... > > > > buymeabeer.com > > > > Websites and Bars register for a micro-payment system: Click a link > > on the > site, and the webmaster gets a free beer at his favorite bar on you... > Many details to work out. > > Affiliate sites: > > caniget60centsforthebus.com > spare-a-smoke.com > hookabrotherup.com > > > ------ > From: > Subject:[scatterbrains] > extra political goods[3A847F45] > On 9 Feb 01, at 13:02, Arturo, Bob > wrote: > > have a good weekend all > enjoy the beer > > It would have > made a great currency > > > Well Pat's brewing a batch and I'll be > tomorrow. So the beer is > > covered. > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] In the > interest of levity... > > > > > > that's just what this city is > missing > > titties and beer > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > 088:N/ > > > A=567076/R=0/*http://www.astrocenter.com/scripts/AstroWeb.dll?ya?Af=31 > > > 2&De=F e1> FREE 2001 Forecast from Astrocenter.com! > > > > > > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=567076/rand=670784164> > > > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981762395/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@w... Fri Feb 09 16:10:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 00:10:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 98597 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 00:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 00:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:11:53 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1A182B11496 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:08:03 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA18434; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:10:47 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end In-Reply-To: 58230921 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1358@w...> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:10:47 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of the turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I think it's unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be taken out, but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to finish each turn. ------ From: Subject:Re: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end[3A8485B7] On 9 Feb 01, at 15:26, eventi@w... wrote: i was going to ask you that, but along with it, does the scorekeeper need to make the current unofficial score immediately and does he get paid for it. Does this depend on whether it is part of the scoring and thus part of this turn? i would lean toward interpreting it as part of a turn, it is "scoring". I think we should answer this rather than leave it open assuming Bobby announces a proposal that is "in time " either way. The only other situation in which it might matter would be if there was a questino as to who would be judge. But, if the scorekeeper had an interest in this he has two days to do the official scoring. > I think that my turn is over, and Bobby's has begun. My only problem > is that 'scoring' is one of the four parts of a turn, and it hasn't > been officially done yet. Since Prop 312 necame law after the > vote(205), it may be necessary for the scorekeeper to 'score' the turn > before my turn is considered over, and Bobby's begins. > Is it necessary for the SK to record the score to end the > proponant's turn? Just sorta interrested in all of your opinions on > this. I'm almost certain that BA will have his proposal in within 5 > business days of today. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981761169/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 10 06:32:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 14:32:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 30898 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 14:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:32:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1AEWLk92247 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:32:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000801c0936e$2f1ba380$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1358@w...> Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:31:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:10 PM Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of the turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I think it's unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be taken out, but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to finish each turn. I think that you're right about the future cases (that the SK, in a sense, "finishes" the turn), but I think that an argument can be made that 312 isn't really law until your turn is over. Thus, e should score this turn, and the election of the SK can proceed as Bobby begins his turn. Since your turn began before 312, applying 312 to your turn would be ex post facto. From eventi@n... Sat Feb 10 06:53:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 14:53:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 47608 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 14:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:53:39 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA28959 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:53:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301c09371$438a52a0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <15308871.1358@w...> <000801c0936e$2f1ba380$c3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:53:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Rule205:An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it. There's room for argument here? I'm on your side, but if this were written on the bottom of a boardgame's box, you wouldn't think to argue it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:31 AM Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:10 PM > Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of the > turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I think it's > unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be taken out, > but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to finish each turn. > > I think that you're right about the future cases (that the SK, in a sense, > "finishes" the turn), but I think that an argument can be made that 312 > isn't really law until your turn is over. Thus, e should score this turn, > and the election of the SK can proceed as Bobby begins his turn. Since your > turn began before 312, applying 312 to your turn would be ex post facto. > From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 10 07:22:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 15:22:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 21958 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 15:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 15:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 15:22:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1AFMWk95448 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:22:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c09375$31a61ac0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1358@w...> <000801c0936e$2f1ba380$c3a811d0@computer> <002301c09371$438a52a0$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:21:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I think that the room for argument is that when you take into account Rule 107 - "No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application." - which would take precedence over 205 by 110. The question is, if your turn began before 312, as it must have, should 312 change the procedure for understanding your turn? Here's a related (though far from perfect) example: you're in Scatterbrains University, and have majored in World Domination. After you have already started the program, SU decides to change the requirements for WD majors. You will still graduate with the requirements that were in effect when you entered the school. Likewise, GWB's tax plan to the contrary, when the US gov proposes a new tax plan it will not affect your taxes until a full tax year has passed. Now GWB's plan is the exception that proves the rule, since he must specifically make it retroactive. (But such retroactivity is prohibited in Scatterbrains-land.) Practically speaking, this lets us finish your turn, and multi-task by starting Bob's at the same time that we figure out a new SK... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:53 AM Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > Rule205:An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the > completion of the vote that adopted it. > > > There's room for argument here? I'm on your side, but if this were written > on the bottom of a boardgame's box, you wouldn't think to argue it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:31 AM > Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:10 PM > > Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > > > > 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of the > > turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I think > it's > > unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be taken out, > > but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to finish each > turn. > > > > I think that you're right about the future cases (that the SK, in a sense, > > "finishes" the turn), but I think that an argument can be made that 312 > > isn't really law until your turn is over. Thus, e should score this turn, > > and the election of the SK can proceed as Bobby begins his turn. Since > your > > turn began before 312, applying 312 to your turn would be ex post facto. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Sat Feb 10 13:27:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:27:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 80727 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:27:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:44:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 10 Feb 01 15:36:42 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 10 Feb 01 15:36:36 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:36:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000801c0936e$2f1ba380$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0114c5944210a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 10 Feb 01, at 9:31, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:10 PM > Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of the > turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I think > it's unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be > taken out, but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to > finish each turn. > > I think that you're right about the future cases (that the SK, in a > sense, "finishes" the turn), but I think that an argument can be made > that 312 isn't really law until your turn is over. Thus, e should > score this turn, and the election of the SK can proceed as Bobby > begins his turn. Since your turn began before 312, applying 312 to > your turn would be ex post facto. > You wrote the law, but it soundst to me. like it takes place in distinct phases. If scoring is a separete phase it would take place under the new law. (i.e., not ex post facto, because it applies to scoring only) if everyone would announce there intentions we could just elect the scorekeeper first by agreement. If anyone thinks 306 needs to be amended then they'll have to propose it. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981815546/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Sat Feb 10 13:37:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 10 Feb 2001 21:37:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 66859 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Feb 2001 21:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:38:39 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:55:22 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 10 Feb 01 15:47:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 10 Feb 01 15:46:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:46:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c09375$31a61ac0$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0106c2255210a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 10 Feb 01, at 10:21, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I think that the room for argument is that when you take into account > Rule 107 > > - "No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the > completion > of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states > otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application." - I don't want to be picky but it is only retroactive if you consider scoring to currently be officially "automatic," If it takes place AFTER then it is under the new law. Easier than opinions on this would be if S, B, and F announce thier intentions on running for SK ASAP. > > which would take precedence over 205 by 110. The question is, if your > turn began before 312, as it must have, should 312 change the > procedure for understanding your turn? Here's a related (though far > from perfect) example: you're in Scatterbrains University, and have > majored in World Domination. After you have already started the > program, SU decides to change the requirements for WD majors. You > will still graduate with the requirements that were in effect when you > entered the school. Likewise, GWB's tax plan to the contrary, when > the US gov proposes a new tax plan it will not affect your taxes until > a full tax year has passed. Now GWB's plan is the exception that > proves the rule, since he must specifically make it retroactive. (But > such retroactivity is prohibited in Scatterbrains-land.) > > Practically speaking, this lets us finish your turn, and multi-task by > starting Bob's at the same time that we figure out a new SK... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:53 AM > Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > > > Rule205:An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment > > of the > > completion of the vote that adopted it. > > > > > > There's room for argument here? I'm on your side, but if this were > written > > on the bottom of a boardgame's box, you wouldn't think to argue it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:31 AM > > Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 7:10 PM > > > Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Question about turn end > > > > > > > > > > 205 says that 312 is law now, the question is whether part 4 of > > > > the > > > turn-rule requires SK to record the score for the turn to end. I > > > think > > it's > > > unfortunate (now that 312's in), but it does. Part 4 should be > > > taken > out, > > > but until it is, I think we'll be stuck waiting for SK to finish > > > each > > turn. > > > > > > I think that you're right about the future cases (that the SK, in > > > a > sense, > > > "finishes" the turn), but I think that an argument can be made > > > that 312 isn't really law until your turn is over. Thus, e should > > > score this > turn, > > > and the election of the SK can proceed as Bobby begins his turn. > > > Since > > your > > > turn began before 312, applying 312 to your turn would be ex post > > > facto. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/981818557/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Mon Feb 12 05:17:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 12 Feb 2001 13:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 80165 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 13:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2001 13:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 13:17:04 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA26668 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:17:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT8X>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:11:52 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372F1@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Scorekeeper Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:11:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" I Robert F. Arturo do officially announce that I do not plan to run for the office of Scorekeeper at this time. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From sga5892@n... Mon Feb 12 21:33:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 05:33:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 93240 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 05:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 05:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 06:34:23 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1D5XHZ21478 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:33:17 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8O00A08KRF3V@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:33:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:33:42 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:33:40 -0500 Subject: the office of scorekeeper To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09554.9DECB0A0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i, steven arturo, am nominating myself for the office of scorekeeper in the nomic group. pat, i do not mean to come across as your arch enemy in this game (as eug frolics with many, many points). i just would like us to go through the motions of how it is to elect an official, even if my candidacy were an unwanted one. steve From eventi@n... Mon Feb 12 22:05:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 06:05:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 47696 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 06:05:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 06:05:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 06:04:59 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA24726 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:04:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c09582$ec7ee480$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <01C09554.9DECB0A0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] the office of scorekeeper Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:04:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, it's after the self-imposed deadline, but I think we should accept the application. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven G. Arturo" To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:33 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] the office of scorekeeper > i, steven arturo, am nominating myself for the office of scorekeeper in the > nomic group. > > pat, i do not mean to come across as your arch enemy in this game (as eug > frolics with many, many points). i just would like us to go through the > motions of how it is to elect an official, even if my candidacy were an > unwanted one. > > steve > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Feb 12 22:08:55 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55134 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 06:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 06:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 06:08:55 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 06:08:54 -0000 Date: 13 Feb 2001 06:08:49 -0000 Message-ID: <982044529.278.26633.ac@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Who should be the Scorekeeper o Steven Arturo o Patrick Bernardo To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 13 04:38:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 12:38:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 12818 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 12:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 12:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 12:38:31 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1DCcTk37801 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:38:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c095b9$c5afe020$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C09554.9DECB0A0.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] the office of scorekeeper Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:37:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Aargh! Steven must die! I'm kidding, Steve. That's cool. But you *will* be my arch-enemy if you don't start using caps. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:33 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] the office of scorekeeper > i, steven arturo, am nominating myself for the office of scorekeeper in the > nomic group. > > pat, i do not mean to come across as your arch enemy in this game (as eug > frolics with many, many points). i just would like us to go through the > motions of how it is to elect an official, even if my candidacy were an > unwanted one. > > steve > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 13 07:13:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 15:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 74045 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 15:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:13:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 15:13:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:13:16 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New poll for scatterbrains Message-ID: <96biuc+mk48@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <982044529.278.26633.ac@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 678 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? Or a write in space? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > scatterbrains group: > > Who should be the Scorekeeper > > o Steven Arturo > o Patrick Bernardo > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From eventi@n... Tue Feb 13 07:18:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 15:18:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 45256 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:18:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 15:18:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:18:52 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA26595 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:18:51 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:20:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <96biuc+mk48@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Mechanical difficulties: Yahoo Groups doesn't allow write ins, and I didn't think of None Of The Above. You could announce your intent to abstain or write in to the list, I suppose. Or I could re-design the poll, but we'd lose the vote so far. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:13 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? Or a > write in space? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > scatterbrains group: > > > > Who should be the Scorekeeper > > > > o Steven Arturo > > o Patrick Bernardo > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > Groups > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 13 07:27:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 15:27:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 42758 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 15:27:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:27:29 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.43] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 15:27:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New poll for scatterbrains Message-ID: <96bjp0+6l89@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1630 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... I suppose we could just chalk this up for this to remember for next time. No worries, I cast my vote. I just wondered if perhaps there were members who were conflicted. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Mechanical difficulties: Yahoo Groups doesn't allow write ins, and I didn't > think of None Of The Above. You could announce your intent to abstain or > write in to the list, I suppose. Or I could re-design the poll, but we'd > lose the vote so far. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:13 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? Or a > > write in space? > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > > scatterbrains group: > > > > > > Who should be the Scorekeeper > > > > > > o Steven Arturo > > > o Patrick Bernardo > > > > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > > Groups > > > web site listed above. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > From barturo@e... Tue Feb 13 07:41:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 15:41:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 53544 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 15:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:41:09 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA28752 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:40:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT9X>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:35:35 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372FC@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:35:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C095D2.98FCD0B0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C095D2.98FCD0B0 Content-Type: text/plain Like me -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:27 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains I suppose we could just chalk this up for this to remember for next time. No worries, I cast my vote. I just wondered if perhaps there were members who were conflicted. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Mechanical difficulties: Yahoo Groups doesn't allow write ins, and I didn't > think of None Of The Above. You could announce your intent to abstain or > write in to the list, I suppose. Or I could re-design the poll, but we'd > lose the vote so far. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:13 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? Or a > > write in space? > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > > scatterbrains group: > > > > > > Who should be the Scorekeeper > > > > > > o Steven Arturo > > > o Patrick Bernardo > > > > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > > Groups > > > web site listed above. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C095D2.98FCD0B0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Like=20 me
    -----Original Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h...= =20 [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 = 10:27=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains

    I= =20 suppose we could just chalk this up for this to remember for
    next=20 time.

    No worries, I cast my vote.  I just wondered if perhaps= =20 there were
    members who were conflicted.

    -Fritz
    --- In=20 scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" <eventi@n...>=20
    wrote:
    > Mechanical difficulties: Yahoo Groups doesn't allow wr= ite=20 ins,
    and I didn't
    > think of None Of The Above. You could annou= nce=20 your intent to
    abstain or
    > write in to the list, I suppose.&nb= sp;=20 Or I could re-design the poll, but
    we'd
    > lose the vote so=20 far.
    >       --e
    >
    > >=20 -----Original Message-----
    > > From: f_hemker@h...=20 [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    > > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:1= 3=20 AM
    > > To: scatterbrains@y...
    > > Subject: [scatterbrai= ns]=20 Re: New poll for scatterbrains
    > >
    > >
    > >=20 Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? 
    Or=20 a
    > > write in space?
    > >
    > > -Fritz
    >=20 >
    > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote:>=20 > >
    > > > Enter your vote today!  A new poll has b= een=20 created for the
    > > > scatterbrains group:
    > >=20 >
    > > > Who should be the Scorekeeper
    > > >>=20 > >   o Steven Arturo
    > > >   o Pat= rick=20 Bernardo
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To vote, p= lease=20 visit the following web page:
    > > >
    > > > http://groups.= yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls
    >=20 > >
    > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Po= ll=20 votes are
    > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go= to=20 the Yahoo!
    > > Groups
    > > > web site listed=20 above.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks!
    > > >
    &= gt;=20 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/term= s
    >=20 >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this grou= p,=20 send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    &= gt;=20 >
    > >
    > >



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C095D2.98FCD0B0-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 13 08:21:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 16:21:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 73814 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 17:22:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:38:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Feb 01 10:30:51 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Feb 01 10:30:38 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:30:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372FC@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <018643038160d21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" that should do it. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 13 08:28:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 16:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 97294 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 17:29:46 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03595 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:28:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:30:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <018643038160d21ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This is really too f'in funny > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > that should do it. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Feb 13 08:29:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 98482 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.114] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Date: 13 Feb 2001 16:29:03 -0000 Message-ID: <982081743.2240.45775.f6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Who should be the Scorekeeper CHOICES AND RESULTS - Steven Arturo, 3 votes, 50.00% - Patrick Bernardo, 3 votes, 50.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Steven Arturo - barturo@e... - f_hemker@h... - sga5892@n... - Patrick Bernardo - bernardo@c... - pkirklan@e... - eventi@c... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Feb 13 08:39:05 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56813 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:39:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.69] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 16:39:04 -0000 Date: 13 Feb 2001 16:39:00 -0000 Message-ID: <982082340.574.99918.jd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? (RUNOFF) o Steven Arturo o Patrick Bernardo o Joe Walsh (None of the Above) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 13 08:44:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 16:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 71421 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 17:45:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:01:19 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Feb 01 10:53:39 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Feb 01 10:53:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:53:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <982081743.2240.45775.f6@yahoogroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <015e21901170d21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Wait wait I accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan OR Just ask Sandra Day O Conner From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 13 08:47:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 16:47:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 80020 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:47:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.208] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2001 16:47:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:47:01 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Run Off Election Message-ID: <96boe5+i0s4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 178 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Perhaps we should hear from the candidates regarding their suitability. Of course, they could also grease the wheels a bit... Just don't end up like poor Arron Burr. -Fritz From sga5892@n... Tue Feb 13 08:54:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 13 Feb 2001 16:54:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 73342 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2001 16:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:54:49 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1DGsni24645 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:54:49 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8P00BHEGBB6E@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:55:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:55:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C095B3.D3255E20.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i voted for myself? how stupid can i be! -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:29 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Who should be the Scorekeeper CHOICES AND RESULTS - Steven Arturo, 3 votes, 50.00% - Patrick Bernardo, 3 votes, 50.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Steven Arturo - barturo@e... - f_hemker@h... - sga5892@n... - Patrick Bernardo - bernardo@c... - pkirklan@e... - eventi@c... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 13 23:08:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 07:08:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 80026 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 07:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 07:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 08:09:45 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1E78ck05387 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:08:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c09654$db5e8d40$bba811d0@computer> To: References: <96biuc+mk48@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:07:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey thanks a lot! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > Shouldn't there have been a choice for none of the above? Or a > write in space? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > scatterbrains group: > > > > Who should be the Scorekeeper > > > > o Steven Arturo > > o Patrick Bernardo > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > Groups > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 13 23:10:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 07:10:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 94701 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 07:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 07:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 07:10:09 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1E7A7k05459 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:10:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003d01c09655$10603160$bba811d0@computer> To: References: <96boe5+i0s4@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Run Off Election Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:09:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I plan on shooting all those who oppose me. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Run Off Election > Perhaps we should hear from the candidates regarding their > suitability. Of course, they could also grease the wheels a bit... > > Just don't end up like poor Arron Burr. > > > -Fritz > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 14 05:59:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 13:59:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 63634 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 13:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:58:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.207] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 13:58:57 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:58:57 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Run Off Election Message-ID: <96e2v1+nubl@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003d01c09655$10603160$bba811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 723 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... I will not get my comeuppance. Do you hear me? No comeuppance! No comeuppance! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > I plan on shooting all those who oppose me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:47 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Run Off Election > > > > Perhaps we should hear from the candidates regarding their > > suitability. Of course, they could also grease the wheels a bit... > > > > Just don't end up like poor Arron Burr. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Wed Feb 14 06:24:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 81601 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 14:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 14:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 14:23:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 14:23:53 -0000 Date: 14 Feb 2001 14:23:51 -0000 Message-ID: <982160631.296.27283.fc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? (RUNOFF) CHOICES AND RESULTS - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Steven Arturo - f_hemker@h... - Patrick Bernardo - bernardo@c... - sga5892@n... - pkirklan@e... - eventi@c... - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) - barturo@e... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 14 07:15:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 15:14:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 42280 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 15:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:13:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 15:13:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:13:25 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <96e7al+o8rp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <982160631.296.27283.fc@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 993 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Wait a second. Steven didn't even vote for himself? Grrr.... -Fritz, who won't be getting his comeuppance either. --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? > (RUNOFF) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% > - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Steven Arturo > - f_hemker@h... > - Patrick Bernardo > - bernardo@c... > - sga5892@n... > - pkirklan@e... > - eventi@c... > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) > - barturo@e... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 07:30:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 15:30:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 78416 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 15:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:31:25 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1EFUIk41459 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:30:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c0969a$f0e2cfa0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <982160631.296.27283.fc@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:29:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I want to thank my fellow citizens for their wisdom and good taste. I will give my first SK report after I kill Socrates. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? > (RUNOFF) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% > - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Steven Arturo > - f_hemker@h... > - Patrick Bernardo > - bernardo@c... > - sga5892@n... > - pkirklan@e... > - eventi@c... > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) > - barturo@e... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 07:36:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 15:36:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 13847 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:36:41 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06726 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:35:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT0P>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:30:15 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0372FE@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:30:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0969B.066F5230" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0969B.066F5230 Content-Type: text/plain Can you play the guitar? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 10:30 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains I want to thank my fellow citizens for their wisdom and good taste. I will give my first SK report after I kill Socrates. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? > (RUNOFF) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% > - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Steven Arturo > - f_hemker@h... > - Patrick Bernardo > - bernardo@c... > - sga5892@n... > - pkirklan@e... > - eventi@c... > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) > - barturo@e... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Classmates.com Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0969B.066F5230 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Can=20 you play the guitar?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01=20 10:30 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= e:=20 [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains

    I= want=20 to thank my fellow citizens for their wisdom and good taste.  I=20 will
    give my first SK report after I kill Socrates.

    ----- Origi= nal=20 Message -----
    From: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    To:=20 <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01=20 9:23 AM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for=20 scatterbrains


    >
    > The following scatterbrains poll is= now=20 closed.  Here are the
    > final results:
    >
    >
    >= POLL=20 QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper?
    > (RUNOFF)
    >
    = >=20 CHOICES AND RESULTS
    > - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67%
    > - Pa= trick=20 Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67%
    > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 vote= s,=20 16.67%
    >
    > INDIVIDUAL VOTES
    > - Steven=20 Arturo
    >      - f_hemker@h...
    &g= t; -=20 Patrick Bernardo
    >      -=20 bernardo@c...
    >      -=20 sga5892@n...
    >      -=20 pkirklan@e...
    >      -=20 eventi@c...
    > - Joe Walsh (None of the=20 Above)
    >      -=20 barturo@e...
    >
    >
    > For more informati= on=20 about this group, please visit
    > http://groups.yahoo.= com/group/scatterbrains
    >
    >=20 For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
    > http://help.yahoo.com/help= /us/groups/
    >
    >=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/term= s
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    &g= t;=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0969B.066F5230-- From sga5892@n... Wed Feb 14 09:09:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 17:09:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 30337 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 17:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 17:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 17:09:53 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1EH9pc27578 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:09:51 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8R00CKUBOE83@m...> for scatterbrains@egroups.com; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:09:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:09:46 -0500 Subject: updating the score To: "'scatterbrains@egroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0967F.07D53480.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" hey bat, update the scores already... didn't have cyanide for socrates this time around? From sga5892@n... Wed Feb 14 09:12:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 17:12:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 52610 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 17:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 17:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 17:07:52 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1EH7oc27419 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:51 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8R00CINBL183@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:07:48 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C0967E.C0226860.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i concede the office of scorekeeper to mr. bernardo. due to the lack of a judicial branch that i can adequately exploit (a counsel might be able to sway my position on this), i will not contest the results of this election, nor the polling practices of this section of the population. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:24 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? (RUNOFF) CHOICES AND RESULTS - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Steven Arturo - f_hemker@h... - Patrick Bernardo - bernardo@c... - sga5892@n... - pkirklan@e... - eventi@c... - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) - barturo@e... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 09:22:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 17:22:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 71199 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 17:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 17:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:23:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17353 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:22:03 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:23:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01C0967E.C0226860.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You might have half if a case IF YOU VOTED FOR YOURSELF!!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:08 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > i concede the office of scorekeeper to mr. bernardo. due to the > lack of a > judicial branch that i can adequately exploit (a counsel might be able to > sway my position on this), i will not contest the results of this > election, > nor the polling practices of this section of the population. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com [SMTP:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:24 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Who should be the new Scorekeeper? > (RUNOFF) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Steven Arturo, 1 votes, 16.67% > - Patrick Bernardo, 4 votes, 66.67% > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above), 1 votes, 16.67% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Steven Arturo > - f_hemker@h... > - Patrick Bernardo > - bernardo@c... > - sga5892@n... > - pkirklan@e... > - eventi@c... > - Joe Walsh (None of the Above) > - barturo@e... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 11:54:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 19:54:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 63501 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 19:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 19:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 19:54:07 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:12:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 14:03:45 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 14:03:38 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:03:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] updating the score Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01C0967F.07D53480.sga5892@n...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01a741012200e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 12:09, Steven G. Arturo wrote: What if Athens used a butterfly ballot > hey bat, update the scores already... didn't have cyanide for socrates > this time around? > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982170604/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 12:26:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 58134 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:27:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1EKQXk69202 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:26:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c096c4$52d1a000$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <01C0967F.07D53480.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] updating the score Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:25:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hemlock, Steve, hemlock. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: 'scatterbrains@egroups.com' Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] updating the score > hey bat, update the scores already... didn't have cyanide for socrates this time around? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 12:40:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:40:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 76429 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:40:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:40:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 20:40:11 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1EKe9k70249 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:40:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901c096c6$399aa120$caa811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score report for Round 312 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:39:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0969C.4F7E0F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0969C.4F7E0F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends, Scatterbrainers, countrymen: lend me your eyes. I come not to smi= te and punish, but to praise and reward. Here, with all solemnity and power vested in me, are the scores from Round = 312*: Eugene Ventimiglia gets 10 points for passage of Rule 312. (4/6*15) Steven Arturo gets 10 points for voting against successful Rule 312 (Vid. 2= 04) Paul Kirkland gets 10 points for voting against successful Rule 312 (Vid. 2= 04) The rest shall remain as they are. (Get thee to a brewery (bar, really, bu= t it doesn't really work as well)) *For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to scoring as Round N, where N is= the same number as the Proposal. As of now, the rank order is as follows: EV:64 SA:39 PB:38 BA:20 FH:18.5 PK:10.5 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0969C.4F7E0F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Friends, Scatterbrainers, countrymen: lend= me your=20 eyes.  I come not to smite and punish, but to praise and=20 reward.
     
    Here, with all solemnity and power vested = in me,=20 are the scores from Round 312*:
     
    Eugene Ventimiglia gets 10 points for pass= age of=20 Rule 312. (4/6*15)
    Steven Arturo gets 10 points for voting ag= ainst=20 successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204)
    Paul Kirkland gets 10 points for voting ag= ainst=20 successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204)
     
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoog= roups.com'=20
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, = 2001=20 4:29 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] R= e:=20 Proposal 313

    I thought about a time limit but if a play= er=20 decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like= the=20 proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player= =20 could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess i= mpose=20 a penalty.
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]=
    Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re:= =20 Proposal 313

    How about abstentions?

    No time limit on= =20 votes?  If I don't like a proposal, but everyone
    else does= , I=20 could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    of s= ome=20 kind.  The game might grind to a halt but for the
    pigheade= dness=20 of one man.

    Even with the -5 point deduction you might still= come=20 out ahead
    when voting against your own passing=20 proposal.

    -Fritz

    --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, = Bob"=20 <barturo@e...> wrote:
    > Begin Proposal 313
    >
    = >=20       Voting on Proposals
    > Voting w= ill=20 take place with the use of Polls. The player
    Proposing a=20 rule
    > will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
    >       1: The Poll= =20 question will have the Proposal Number
    >=20       2: An email will be sent out to all = the=20 players detailing the Final
    > Proposal
    >=20       3: The Poll will include a question= =20 accepting or opposing the
    > Proposal
    >=20       4: All players will submit their=20 vote
    >       5: The Poll will stay o= pen=20 as long as it takes for everyone to
    vote
    >
    > = * If=20 the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to>=20 change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    = >=20 score for every vote change made.
    >
    >  * If the P= oll=20 is hidden then the person submitting the proposal
    MUST vote
    = >=20 for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty=20       deducted
    from there
    >=20 score.
    >
    > End Proposal 3113
    >
    >
    >= =20
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified=20 recipient of this
    > confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution
    or copying
    > of this transmission i= s=20 strictly prohibited.
    > If you are not the specified recipien= t,=20 please notify us at
    > webmaster@e...



    = To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    The rest shall remain as they are.  (= Get thee=20 to a brewery (bar, really, but it doesn't really work as well))
     
     
    *For the purpose of clarity, I will refer = to=20 scoring as Round N, where N is the same number as the Proposal.
     
    As of now, the rank order is as=20 follows:
     
    EV:64
    SA:39
    PB:38
    BA:20
    FH:18.5
    PK:10.5
    ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C0969C.4F7E0F60-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 12:48:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:48:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 20944 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:49:46 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA07859 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:48:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT08>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:43:25 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037301@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:43:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Begin Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there score. End Proposal 3113 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 12:50:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:50:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 14199 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:50:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 20:50:07 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08032 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:50:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7KT00>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:44:49 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037302@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:44:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C096C6.F85D50D0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096C6.F85D50D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Mr. Batnardo -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:39 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312 Friends, Scatterbrainers, countrymen: lend me your eyes. I come not to smite and punish, but to praise and reward. Here, with all solemnity and power vested in me, are the scores from Round 312*: Eugene Ventimiglia gets 10 points for passage of Rule 312. (4/6*15) Steven Arturo gets 10 points for voting against successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204) Paul Kirkland gets 10 points for voting against successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204) The rest shall remain as they are. (Get thee to a brewery (bar, really, but it doesn't really work as well)) *For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to scoring as Round N, where N is the same number as the Proposal. As of now, the rank order is as follows: EV:64 SA:39 PB:38 BA:20 FH:18.5 PK:10.5 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096C6.F85D50D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Thanks=20 Mr. Batnardo
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01=20 3:39 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312

    Friends, Scatterbrainers, countrymen: le= nd me=20 your eyes.  I come not to smite and punish, but to praise and=20 reward.
     
    Here, with all solemnity and power veste= d in me,=20 are the scores from Round 312*:
     
    Eugene Ventimiglia gets 10 points for pa= ssage of=20 Rule 312. (4/6*15)
    Steven Arturo gets 10 points for voting = against=20 successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204)
    Paul Kirkland gets 10 points for voting = against=20 successful Rule 312 (Vid. 204)
     
    The rest shall remain as they are. = (Get=20 thee to a brewery (bar, really, but it doesn't really work as=20 well))
     
     
    *For the purpose of clarity, I will refe= r to=20 scoring as Round N, where N is the same number as the Proposal.
     
    As of now, the rank order is as=20 follows:
     
    EV:64
    SA:39
    PB:38
    BA:20
    FH:18.5
    PK:10.5


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096C6.F85D50D0-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 12:55:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:55:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 49957 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:55:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 20:55:21 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:13:15 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:04:51 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:04:33 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:04:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003901c096c6$399aa120$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01ab51513210e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 15:39, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: Why do I suspect that you've been reading will safire not will shak > Friends, Scatterbrainers, countrymen: lend me your eyes. I come not > to smite and punish, but to praise and reward. > > Here, with all solemnity and power vested in me, are the scores from > Round 312*: > > Eugene Ventimiglia gets 10 points for passage of Rule 312. (4/6*15) > Steven Arturo gets 10 points for voting against successful Rule 312 > (Vid. 204) Paul Kirkland gets 10 points for voting against successful > Rule 312 (Vid. 204) > > The rest shall remain as they are. (Get thee to a brewery (bar, > really, but it doesn't really work as well)) > > > *For the purpose of clarity, I will refer to scoring as Round N, where > N is the same number as the Proposal. > > As of now, the rank order is as follows: > > EV:64 > SA:39 > PB:38 > BA:20 > FH:18.5 > PK:10.5 > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 12:55:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 20:55:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 30947 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 20:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:57:04 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08604 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:55:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:57:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037301@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Somebody buy this man a beer!!! Wouldn't change a thing. Well maybe spelling. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 3:43 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 313 > > > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty > deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 14 13:17:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 58652 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:15:37 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.116] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 21:15:37 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:15:32 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96eshk+fp2u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037301@BATMAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1596 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 13:24:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:24:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 34122 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:24:18 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11475 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:24:18 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <96eshk+fp2u@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > How about abstentions? 305 prohibits abstentions. > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit > of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > pigheadedness of one man. Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead > when voting against your own passing proposal. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Begin Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > > Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > MUST vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted > from there > > score. > > > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:27:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:27:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22234 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:27:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:45:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:37:32 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:37:16 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:37:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037301@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01ba15745210e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: I agree with the spirit of the penalty for voting agaisnt your own proposal, but might this not be better handled in another way. perhaps a future proposal would better make all votes a reflection of one's opinion of the proposal than a calclution of point advantage. What if someone has a genuine change of heart after debate (I will grant that practically it is unlikely that this happen AND the proposal pass), but it seems this should be peritted. p > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a > rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score > for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST > vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from > there score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982183736/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:30:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:30:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 30531 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:30:52 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:48:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:40:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:40:25 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:40:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <96eshk+fp2u@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <019fe5648210e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > How about abstentions? > > 305 prohibits abstentions. is an active vote to abstain the same as not voting? ike voting none of the above raher than not shown up? This may be for another prop fritz > > > > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time > > limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > > pigheadedness of one man. > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > > > > Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when > > voting against your own passing proposal. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > > Begin Proposal 313 > > > > > > Voting on Proposals > > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > > Proposing a rule > > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > > > Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or > > > opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: > > > The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > > vote > > > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would > > > like to > > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > > score for every vote change made. > > > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > > MUST vote > > > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted > > from there > > > score. > > > > > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982185874/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 13:31:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:31:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 29346 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:31:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1ELVWk75565 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:31:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00d001c096cd$675bb7a0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:30:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit > > of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > > pigheadedness of one man. > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > Drink beer? From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 13:35:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:35:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 64666 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:35:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:35:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:35:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1ELZ4k75798 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:35:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00d601c096cd$e5f562a0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <01ba15745210e21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:34:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > On 14 Feb 01, at 15:43, Glaucon wrote: > > I agree with the spirit of the penalty for voting agaisnt your own > proposal, but might this not be better handled in another way. > perhaps a future proposal would better make all votes a reflection of > one's opinion of the proposal than a calclution of point advantage. > Dear sir, You cannot legislate the state of the soul. Sincerely Plato. (The much-overlooked 52nd letter) > What if someone has a genuine change of heart after debate > (I will grant that practically it is unlikely that this happen AND the > proposal pass), but it seems this should be peritted. > From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 13:35:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:35:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 43328 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:35:17 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12486 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AD>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037304@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:29:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.473FF5D0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.473FF5D0 Content-Type: text/plain I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.473FF5D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I=20 thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress = of=20 the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in= =20 violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge an= d=20 that judge could I guess impose a penalty.
     
     -----Original Message-----
    Fr= om:=20 f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    Sent: Wednesda= y,=20 February 14, 2001 4:16 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Propos= al=20 313

    How about abstentions?

    No time limit on=20 votes?  If I don't like a proposal, but everyone
    else does, I co= uld=20 "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    of some kind.&nb= sp;=20 The game might grind to a halt but for the
    pigheadedness of one=20 man.

    Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahe= ad=20
    when voting against your own passing proposal.

    -Fritz

    -= -- In=20 scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" <barturo@e...> wrote:
    > Beg= in=20 Proposal 313
    >
    >       Voting on=20 Proposals
    > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The playe= r=20
    Proposing a rule
    > will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
    >       1: The Poll questi= on=20 will have the Proposal Number
    >       2: = An=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final
    >=20 Proposal
    >       3: The Poll will include = a=20 question accepting or opposing the
    > Proposal
    >=20       4: All players will submit their vote
    &= gt;=20       5: The Poll will stay open as long as it t= akes=20 for everyone to
    vote
    >
    >  * If the Poll is not hidd= en=20 all votes are final. If you would like to
    > change your vote there = will=20 be 1 point deducted from your total
    > score for every vote change=20 made.
    >
    >  * If the Poll is hidden then the person=20 submitting the proposal
    MUST vote
    > for their proposal or there= will=20 be a 5 point penalty       deducted
    from=20 there
    > score.
    >
    > End Proposal 3113
    >
    >= =20
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specifie= d=20 recipient of this
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified tha= t any=20 distribution
    or copying
    > of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.
    > If you are not the specified recipient, please notif= y us=20 at
    > webmaster@e...



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.473FF5D0-- From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 13:37:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:37:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 70724 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:37:15 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1ELbBk76101 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:37:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e801c096ce$31a68580$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037304@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:36:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C096A4.479194E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C096A4.479194E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vo= te, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever find me in vi= olation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge. You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief m= agistracy position. That would have been a good idea.=20=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progr= ess of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be i= n violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge = and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone=20 else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit= =20 of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the=20 pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead=20 when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 >=20 > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player=20 Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number=20 > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the F= inal > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to= =20 vote >=20 > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like t= o > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. >=20 > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal=20 MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted= =20 from there > score. >=20 > End Proposal 3113 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution=20 or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name below an= d press GO!=20=20 www.=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C096A4.479194E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Improbable.  I could not vote, and as= sert to=20 the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now."  There's no way = for=20 the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *act= ion*=20 to judge.
     
    You know, somebody should of thought of th= is=20 earlier, and created a chief magistracy position.  That would have bee= n a=20 good idea. 
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001= 4:29=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: P= roposal=20 313

    I=20 thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progres= s of=20 the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be i= n=20 violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge = and=20 that judge could I guess impose a penalty.
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    = Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Prop= osal=20 313

    How about abstentions?

    No time limit on=20 votes?  If I don't like a proposal, but everyone
    else does, I = could=20 "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    of some kind.&= nbsp;=20 The game might grind to a halt but for the
    pigheadedness of one=20 man.

    Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out a= head=20
    when voting against your own passing proposal.

    -Fritz
    ---=20 In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" <barturo@e...> wrote:
    >= ;=20 Begin Proposal 313
    >
    >       Voti= ng on=20 Proposals
    > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The pla= yer=20
    Proposing a rule
    > will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
    >       1: The Poll ques= tion=20 will have the Proposal Number
    >       2= : An=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final
    >=20 Proposal
    >       3: The Poll will includ= e a=20 question accepting or opposing the
    > Proposal
    >=20       4: All players will submit their vote>=20       5: The Poll will stay open as long as it= =20 takes for everyone to
    vote
    >
    >  * If the Poll is = not=20 hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    > change your vo= te=20 there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    > score for every = vote=20 change made.
    >
    >  * If the Poll is hidden then the pe= rson=20 submitting the proposal
    MUST vote
    > for their proposal or the= re=20 will be a 5 point penalty       deducted
    f= rom=20 there
    > score.
    >
    > End Proposal 3113
    >
    >= ;=20
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specif= ied=20 recipient of this
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified t= hat=20 any distribution
    or copying
    > of this transmission is strictl= y=20 prohibited.
    > If you are not the specified recipient, please not= ify=20 us at
    > webmaster@e...



    To unsubscribe fro= m=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00E5_01C096A4.479194E0-- From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 13:37:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 71117 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:37:22 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12709 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AF>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:32:05 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037305@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:32:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.935E0B50" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.935E0B50 Content-Type: text/plain -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:31 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit > > of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > > pigheadedness of one man. > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > Drink beer? [Arturo, Bob] How about Buymeabeer.com? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.935E0B50 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01=20 4:31 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re= :=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 <eventi@n...>

    > > No time limit on votes?  If= I=20 don't like a proposal, but everyone
    > > else does, I could=20 "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    > > of some= =20 kind.  The game might grind to a halt but for the
    > >=20 pigheadedness of one man.
    >
    > Agreed, but what to do after th= e=20 time limit?
    >
    Drink beer?
    [Arturo,=20 Bob] 
     
    How about=20 Buymeabeer.com? 


    <= BR>To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CD.935E0B50-- From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 13:38:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:38:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 51367 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:39:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA12790 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:38:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:39:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C096A4.B8959E70" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00e801c096ce$31a68580$caa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C096A4.B8959E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why don't you do that next time around? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge. You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C096A4.B8959E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Why=20 don't you do that next time around?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01=20 4:36 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re= :=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313

    Improbable.  I could not vote, and = assert to=20 the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now."  There's no wa= y for=20 the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no=20 *action* to judge.
     
    You know, somebody should of thought of = this=20 earlier, and created a chief magistracy position.  That would have b= een a=20 good idea. 
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 20= 01 4:29=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re:= =20 Proposal 313

    I=20 thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progr= ess=20 of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could= be=20 in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a j= udge=20 and that judge could I guess impose a penalty.
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]Sent:=20 Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re:=20 Proposal 313

    How about abstentions?

    No time limit on=20 votes?  If I don't like a proposal, but everyone
    else does, = I=20 could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    of som= e=20 kind.  The game might grind to a halt but for the
    pigheadedn= ess=20 of one man.

    Even with the -5 point deduction you might still c= ome=20 out ahead
    when voting against your own passing=20 proposal.

    -Fritz

    --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bo= b"=20 <barturo@e...> wrote:
    > Begin Proposal 313
    >
    &g= t;=20       Voting on Proposals
    > Voting wil= l=20 take place with the use of Polls. The player
    Proposing a rule
    = >=20 will create a Poll with the following specifications:
    >=20       1: The Poll question will have the Pro= posal=20 Number
    >       2: An email will be se= nt=20 out to all the players detailing the Final
    > Proposal
    >=20       3: The Poll will include a question=20 accepting or opposing the
    > Proposal
    >=20       4: All players will submit their=20 vote
    >       5: The Poll will stay ope= n as=20 long as it takes for everyone to
    vote
    >
    >  * If= the=20 Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    >= =20 change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    &g= t;=20 score for every vote change made.
    >
    >  * If the Pol= l is=20 hidden then the person submitting the proposal
    MUST vote
    > = for=20 their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty=20       deducted
    from there
    >=20 score.
    >
    > End Proposal 3113
    >
    >
    >=20
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified=20 recipient of this
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution
    or copying
    > of this transmission is stric= tly=20 prohibited.
    > If you are not the specified recipient, please n= otify=20 us at
    > webmaster@e...



    To unsubscribe f= rom=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01C096A4.B8959E70-- From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 14 13:38:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:38:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 52737 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:38:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:39:43 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1ELcak76224 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:38:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00f801c096ce$641067c0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <01ab51513210e21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:37:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 14 Feb 01, at 15:39, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > Why do I suspect that you've been reading will safire not will shak > I dunno - proper punctuation? From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:42:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:42:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 32365 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:42:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:00:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:51:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:51:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:51:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00d601c096cd$e5f562a0$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01c382000220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:34, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: Dear Plato, No but you can increase the likelihood that it will be in his self- interest to choose good laws. james madison I.e., an overall deduction in points for voting against a proposal may take some corruption out of the system. > > > On 14 Feb 01, at 15:43, Glaucon wrote: > > > > I agree with the spirit of the penalty for voting agaisnt your own > > proposal, but might this not be better handled in another way. > > perhaps a future proposal would better make all votes a reflection > > of one's opinion of the proposal than a calclution of point > > advantage. > > > Dear sir, > > You cannot legislate the state of the soul. > > Sincerely > > Plato. > (The much-overlooked 52nd letter) > > > What if someone has a genuine change of heart after debate > > (I will grant that practically it is unlikely that this happen AND > > the proposal pass), but it seems this should be peritted. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982186508/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:45:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:45:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 42167 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:46:47 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:03:48 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:55:25 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:55:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:55:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037305@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01d544803220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:32, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > > > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time > > > limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > > > pigheadedness of one man. > > > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > > Drink beer? > [Arturo, Bob] > > How about Buymeabeer.com? > Still the best idea i've heard yet. What if worked through beer companies rather than bars? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 088:N/ A=579810/*http://www.columbiahouse.com/gateway?token=7644> > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=579810/rand=714526375> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:49:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:49:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 79458 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:50:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:07:17 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:58:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 15:58:41 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:58:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score report for Round 312 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00f801c096ce$641067c0$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01c571707220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:37, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 14 Feb 01, at 15:39, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > Why do I suspect that you've been reading will safire not will shak You didn't see the "On Language" about openings and closings of political speeches two or three weeks ago? > > > I dunno - proper punctuation? > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982186722/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Wed Feb 14 13:54:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 67074 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:55:22 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14249 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:54:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AG>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037306@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:48:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C096CF.EED13AA0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CF.EED13AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Your right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no choice. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge. You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [ mailto:f_hemker@h... ] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CF.EED13AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

    Your right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no choice.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313

    Improbable.  I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now."  There's no way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge.
     
    You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief magistracy position.  That would have been a good idea. 
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313

    I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty.
     
     -----Original Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313

    How about abstentions?

    No time limit on votes?  If I don't like a proposal, but everyone
    else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit
    of some kind.  The game might grind to a halt but for the
    pigheadedness of one man.

    Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead
    when voting against your own passing proposal.

    -Fritz

    --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" <barturo@e...> wrote:
    > Begin Proposal 313
    >
    >       Voting on Proposals
    > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player
    Proposing a rule
    > will create a Poll with the following specifications:
    >       1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
    >       2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final
    > Proposal
    >       3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the
    > Proposal
    >       4: All players will submit their vote
    >       5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to
    vote
    >
    >  * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    > score for every vote change made.
    >
    >  * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal
    MUST vote
    > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty       deducted
    from there
    > score.
    >
    > End Proposal 3113
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution
    or copying
    > of this transmission is strictly prohibited.
    > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > webmaster@e...



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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

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    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096CF.EED13AA0-- From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 13:54:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:54:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 99720 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:54:52 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA14312 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:54:52 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: BuyMeABeer.com (was Proposal 313) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:56:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01d544803220e21ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" The friggin name's taken. But anyway, search for "buy me a beer" on Google, and you'll come up with all sorts of Free Projects, where the author says. "This is free, but if you ever meet me, buy me a beer." Anyway, for anyone who hasn't been following the Free Sofware Movement (which would be everyone who's not me...), they often say "Free(Beer) Software" when referring to gratis, and "Free(Speech) Software" when it's libre (un-encumbered by copyright, or copy"lefted", to prevent intellectual ownership) There could be a product tie in. - Click here to buy Linus a beer > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:55 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > On 14 Feb 01, at 16:32, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:31 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > > > > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time > > > > limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > > > > pigheadedness of one man. > > > > > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > > > > Drink beer? > > [Arturo, Bob] > > > > How about Buymeabeer.com? > > > Still the best idea i've heard yet. > What if worked through beer companies rather than bars? > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > 088:N/ A=579810/*http://www.columbiahouse.com/gateway?token=7644> > > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > > > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=579810/rand=714526375> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 13:58:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 21:58:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 30031 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:58:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 21:58:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:58:07 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:16:13 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:07:49 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:07:41 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:07:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037306@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01d731316220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:48, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Your right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no > choice. > I'm not so sure > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend > to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever > find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to > judge. > > You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a > chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the > progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that > could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to > vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [ > mailto:f_hemker@h... ] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > How about abstentions? > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else > does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of > some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness > of one man. > > Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead > when voting against your own passing proposal. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Begin Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > > Final > > Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > > > vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like > > to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > MUST vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted > > > from there > > score. > > > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > 700057 088:N/A=572117/R=1/*http://domains.yahoo.com> > 700057 088:N/A=572117/R=2/*http://domains.yahoo.com> > > www. .com > > oupmai l/S=1700057088:N/A=572117/rand=287105048> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 14:02:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 22:02:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 89540 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 22:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 22:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:02:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:20:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:11:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:11:21 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:11:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037306@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01a661220220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:48, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Your right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no > choice. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend > to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever > find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to > judge. > > You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a > chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. cool it al, perhaps the enforcment power power needs simply to be more accountable (oh say, regulary elected) -- jim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the > progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that > could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to > vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [ > mailto:f_hemker@h... ] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > How about abstentions? > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else > does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of > some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness > of one man. > > Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead > when voting against your own passing proposal. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Begin Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > > Final > > Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > > > vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like > > to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > MUST vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted > > > from there > > score. > > > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > 700057 088:N/A=572117/R=1/*http://domains.yahoo.com> > 700057 088:N/A=572117/R=2/*http://domains.yahoo.com> > > www. .com > > oupmai l/S=1700057088:N/A=572117/rand=287105048> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 14:05:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 22:05:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 793 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 22:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 22:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 23:06:40 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:23:40 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:15:16 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:15:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:14:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] BuyMeABeer.com (was Proposal 313) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01d544803220e21ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01d3d4023220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:56, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > The friggin name's taken. shouldn't it be buyyaabeer.com (ok that looks funny) buyuabeer.com Wouldn't the one paying go to the sight. No, I didn't check. > > But anyway, search for "buy me a beer" on Google, and you'll come up > with all sorts of Free Projects, where the author says. "This is free, > but if you ever meet me, buy me a beer." > > Anyway, for anyone who hasn't been following the Free Sofware Movement > (which would be everyone who's not me...), they often say "Free(Beer) > Software" when referring to gratis, and "Free(Speech) Software" when > it's libre (un-encumbered by copyright, or copy"lefted", to prevent > intellectual ownership) There could be a product tie in. > > - Click here to buy Linus a beer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:55 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > > > On 14 Feb 01, at 16:32, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:31 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but > > > > > everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time > > > > > without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a > > > > > halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. > > > > > > > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > > > > > > Drink beer? > > > [Arturo, Bob] > > > > > > How about Buymeabeer.com? > > > > > Still the best idea i've heard yet. > > What if worked through beer companies rather than bars? > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > 0057 088:N/ > > > A=579810/*http://www.columbiahouse.com/gateway?token=7644> Choose > > > 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > > > > > > > pmai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=579810/rand=714526375> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are > > > not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982187693/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 14 14:09:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 22:09:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 63572 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 22:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 22:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 23:10:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:27:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:19:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Feb 01 16:19:11 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:19:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] BuyMeABeer.com (was Proposal 313) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01d544803220e21ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01d743927220e21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Feb 01, at 16:56, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > The friggin name's taken. buyuabeer.com is available. you can buy me a beer > > But anyway, search for "buy me a beer" on Google, and you'll come up > with all sorts of Free Projects, where the author says. "This is free, > but if you ever meet me, buy me a beer." > > Anyway, for anyone who hasn't been following the Free Sofware Movement > (which would be everyone who's not me...), they often say "Free(Beer) > Software" when referring to gratis, and "Free(Speech) Software" when > it's libre (un-encumbered by copyright, or copy"lefted", to prevent > intellectual ownership) There could be a product tie in. > > - Click here to buy Linus a beer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:55 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > > > On 14 Feb 01, at 16:32, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:31 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but > > > > > everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time > > > > > without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a > > > > > halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. > > > > > > > > Agreed, but what to do after the time limit? > > > > > > > Drink beer? > > > [Arturo, Bob] > > > > > > How about Buymeabeer.com? > > > > > Still the best idea i've heard yet. > > What if worked through beer companies rather than bars? > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > 0057 088:N/ > > > A=579810/*http://www.columbiahouse.com/gateway?token=7644> Choose > > > 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > > > > > > > > pmai l/S=17 00057088:N/A=579810/rand=714526375> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are > > > not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982187693/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Feb 14 14:12:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 22:12:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 71008 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 22:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 22:12:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:12:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2001 22:12:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:12:31 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96evsf+fgt7@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00e801c096ce$31a68580$caa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3791 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Enough with the bellyaching already. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge. > > You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM > To: scatterbrains@y... > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 > > > How about abstentions? > > No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone > else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit > of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the > pigheadedness of one man. > > Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead > when voting against your own passing proposal. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Begin Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > > Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > MUST vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted > from there > > score. > > > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name below and press GO! > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 14 14:48:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 14 Feb 2001 22:48:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 43465 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 22:48:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2001 22:48:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 22:47:59 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA18462 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:47:58 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:49:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C096AE.79E599A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037306@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C096AE.79E599A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back to my previous question... You still have to allow the person to vote (305), so the worst you could do is penalize for lateness. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:49 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Your right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no choice. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:36 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 Improbable. I could not vote, and assert to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now." There's no way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since there is no *action* to judge. You know, somebody should of thought of this earlier, and created a chief magistracy position. That would have been a good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 I thought about a time limit but if a player decided to hold up the progress of the game because they did not like the proposal then that could be in violation of the game. The player could be called out to vote by a judge and that judge could I guess impose a penalty. -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 4:16 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313 How about abstentions? No time limit on votes? If I don't like a proposal, but everyone else does, I could "filibuster" it for a long time without a time limit of some kind. The game might grind to a halt but for the pigheadedness of one man. Even with the -5 point deduction you might still come out ahead when voting against your own passing proposal. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > Begin Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 5 point penalty deducted from there > score. > > End Proposal 3113 > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Grab the opportunity to market your company. Choose the domain name below and press GO! www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C096AE.79E599A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Back=20 to my previous question... You still have to allow the person to=20 vote (305), so the worst you could do is penalize for=20 lateness.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Wednesday, Februa= ry=20 14, 2001 4:49 PM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re= :=20 Proposal 313

    Your=20 right. I rather not have a time limit but it looks like I have no choice.= =20

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= =20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 14, = 2001=20 4:36 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: = Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 313

    Improbable.  I could not vote, an= d assert=20 to the judge that "I intend to vote, but not right now."  There's = no=20 way for the judge to ever find me in violation of the rules, since ther= e is=20 no *action* to judge.
     
    You know, somebody should of thought o= f this=20 earlier, and created a chief magistracy position.  That would have= been=20 a good idea. 
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    =20 Arturo, Bob
    ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C096AE.79E599A0-- From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 05:25:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 13:25:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 10316 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 13:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 13:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:26:34 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03336 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:25:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4A2>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:20:11 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037308@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:20:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09752.06000170" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09752.06000170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09752.06000170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Begin Rev= ised=20 Proposal 313

          Voting on=20 Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Propo= sing=20 a rule
    will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll question will= have=20 the Proposal Number
          2: An email will be = sent=20 out to all the players detailing the Final= =20 Proposal
          3: The Poll will include = a=20 question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
          4: All players will submi= t=20 their vote
          5: Th= e Poll=20 will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    * If the Pol= l is=20 not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    change your vote th= ere=20 will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for every vote change=20 made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposa= l=20 MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penalty for not voting on = your=20 proposal.
     


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09752.06000170-- From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 06:17:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:17:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 43556 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:18:30 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA06932 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:17:25 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:18:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C09730.51AD9A50" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037308@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C09730.51AD9A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C09730.51AD9A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    No=20 time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm = just=20 surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Februar= y 15,=20 2001 8:20 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    Begin R= evised=20 Proposal 313

          Voting on=20 Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player=20 Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll question wi= ll=20 have the Proposal Number
          2: An email w= ill=20 be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal
        &n= bsp; 3:=20 The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal
        &n= bsp; 4:=20 All players will submit their vote=20
          5: = The=20 Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    * If = the=20 Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    change yo= ur=20 vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for every vo= te=20 change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting th= e=20 proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from the= ir
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penalty f= or not=20 voting on your proposal.
     


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C09730.51AD9A50-- From sga5892@n... Thu Feb 15 06:23:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:23:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 32353 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:24:39 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1FENXI12644 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:23:33 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8S00847YN7FX@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:22:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:22:43 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09730.DA51EB40.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a non-vote is a yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, given a time limit is included. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... << File: ATT00011.htm >> From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 06:39:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:39:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 68908 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:39:18 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08802 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AK>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:33:57 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037309@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:33:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0975C.53F192E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0975C.53F192E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0975C.53F192E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following specifications:
          1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
          2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal
          3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal
          4: All players will submit their vote
          5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal.
     


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    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0975C.53F192E0-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 06:45:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 82049 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:45:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FEjBk64442 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:45:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c0975d$cd0ce160$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <01C09730.DA51EB40.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:44:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that after 2 days your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that should inspire a vote. If the person doesn't particularly care, then, the game moves on. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a non-vote is a > yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, given a time limit > is included. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm > just surprised. > --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from > their > score. > > End Proposal 313 > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. .com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 06:45:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:45:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 18686 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:45:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA09410 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:45:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:47:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C09734.49A6DDE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037309@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C09734.49A6DDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agreed - time limits should be an amendment to 305 to have any effect. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:34 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C09734.49A6DDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Agreed=20 - time limits should be an amendment to 305 to have any=20 effect.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Februar= y 15,=20 2001 9:34 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    I=20 really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too = long=20 to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A=20 judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't v= ote=20 on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You = can=20 make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rule= s=20 say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Mayb= e the=20 rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time=20 limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:= 19=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No=20 time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, = I'm=20 just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Feb= ruary=20 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re= vised=20 Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal=20 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Voti= ng=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rulewill=20 create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll questio= n=20 will have the Proposal Number
          2: A= n=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
          3: The Poll will in= clude=20 a question accepting or opposing the= =20 Proposal
          4: All players will= =20 submit their vote
          5: The=20 Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    *= If=20 the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    c= hange=20 your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for= =20 every vote change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the perso= n=20 submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will= be=20 a 10 point=20 penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penal= ty for=20 not voting on your proposal.
     


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00D4_01C09734.49A6DDE0-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 06:50:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:50:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 95034 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:51:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FEnuk64884 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:49:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c0975e$76dd2ba0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037309@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:49:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09734.8CC83B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09734.8CC83B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what = action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge. = Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must vot= e." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this questi= on is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fr= itz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, yo= u're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'= ll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not becau= se I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal. = Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or bl= ackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his t= urn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative..= . I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of tim= e will ease the problem. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes to= o long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A ju= dge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your pr= oposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a c= all to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HA= VE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that say= s I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'= m just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a = rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number=20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the F= inal Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the P= roposal 4: All players will submit their vote=20 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to = vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST = vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from = their score. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 End Proposal 313 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www.=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09734.8CC83B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to ha= ve a call=20 for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You call t= o=20 judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules= =20 against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "Ok, = I=20 will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really=20 hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is stil= l the=20 judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're right.&= nbsp;=20 I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't worry, I'll vote= =20 soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point:  I m= ight=20 choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but becau= se I=20 want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might be working to c= hange=20 other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and tellin= g him=20 he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes h= is=20 vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting to "y= es" after=20 a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 = 9:33=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revis= ed=20 Proposal 313

    I=20 really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too = long=20 to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A=20 judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't v= ote=20 on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You = can=20 make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rule= s=20 say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Mayb= e the=20 rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time=20 limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:= 19=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No=20 time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, = I'm=20 just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Feb= ruary=20 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re= vised=20 Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal=20 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Voti= ng=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rulewill=20 create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll questio= n=20 will have the Proposal Number
          2: A= n=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
          3: The Poll will in= clude=20 a question accepting or opposing the= =20 Proposal
          4: All players will= =20 submit their vote
          5: The=20 Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    *= If=20 the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    c= hange=20 your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for= =20 every vote change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the perso= n=20 submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will= be=20 a 10 point=20 penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penal= ty for=20 not voting on your proposal.
     


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09734.8CC83B00-- From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 06:52:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:52:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 35901 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:52:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:52:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:52:07 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10007 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:52:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:53:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000b01c0975d$cd0ce160$caa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" How would you reconcile that with 305? It calls for "participation", and you're saying what happens if a player doesn't participate. If I were against a law that was passed by automatic votes, I would call for judgement to force the non-voter to vote under 305. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:44 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that > after 2 days > your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that should inspire a > vote. If > the person doesn't particularly care, then, the game moves on. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a non-vote is a > > yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, given a time > limit > > is included. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm > > just surprised. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a > rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > Final > > Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST > vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from > > their > > score. > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > www. .com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 06:57:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 14:57:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 26964 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 14:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:58:52 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10502 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:59:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C09735.F471E660" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001501c0975e$76dd2ba0$caa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C09735.F471E660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I Agree that the judge has no say in this. But BA's proposal shouldn't have to, and arguably can't address this. There is a filibuster issue, but there's are many other issues, and they can't all be handled by this proposal. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative... I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C09735.F471E660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I=20 Agree that the judge has no say in this.  But BA's proposal shouldn't = have=20 to, and arguably can't address this.
    There=20 is a filibuster issue, but there's are many other issues, and they can= 't=20 all be handled by this proposal.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 200= 1=20 9:49 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re= :=20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to = have a=20 call for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You call= to=20 judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he rul= es=20 against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "Ok= , I=20 will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really=20 hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is st= ill=20 the judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're=20 right.  I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't wo= rry,=20 I'll vote soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point:  I= might=20 choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but bec= ause=20 I want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might be working = to=20 change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve a= nd=20 telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points o= r he=20 changes his vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting to = "yes"=20 after a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 200= 1 9:33=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rev= ised=20 Proposal 313

    I=20 really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes to= o=20 long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A= =20 judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't= vote=20 on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. Yo= u can=20 make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The ru= les=20 say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Ma= ybe=20 the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time=20 limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimigli= a=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 = 9:19=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:= =20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to inclu= de them=20 here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday,=20 February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains]= =20 Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal=20 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Vo= ting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a=20 rule
    will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll quest= ion=20 will have the Proposal Number
          2:= An=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
          3: The Poll will= =20 include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
          4: All players wi= ll=20 submit their vote=20
          5:=20 The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to=20 vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you= =20 would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted fr= om=20 your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the Pol= l is=20 hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for the= ir=20 proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted fr= om=20 their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the pen= alty for=20 not voting on your proposal.
     


    To unsubscribe from this group, send a= n=20 email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C09735.F471E660-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 07:02:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:02:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 15506 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FF2bk66170 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501c09760$3c5175c0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:01:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Look, if the law is enacted with votes defaulting to "yes", then the person knows what's going on. His non-vote is legally understood to be a "yes" vote. Hence he did participate. *That's the point.* ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:53 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > How would you reconcile that with 305? It calls for "participation", and > you're saying what happens if a player doesn't participate. If I were > against a law that was passed by automatic votes, I would call for judgement > to force the non-voter to vote under 305. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:44 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that > > after 2 days > > your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that should inspire a > > vote. If > > the person doesn't particularly care, then, the game moves on. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > > > > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a non-vote is a > > > yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, given a time > > limit > > > is included. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm > > > just surprised. > > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > Voting on Proposals > > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a > > rule > > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > > Final > > > Proposal > > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > > > Proposal > > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to > > vote > > > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > > score for every vote change made. > > > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST > > vote > > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from > > > their > > > score. > > > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > www. .com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > > copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 07:08:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:08:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 82385 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:08:10 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11481 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:08:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AL>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:02:49 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730A@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:02:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09760.5C5EDFB0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09760.5C5EDFB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in 305? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative... I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09760.5C5EDFB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in 305?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're right.  I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't worry, I'll vote soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point:  I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following specifications:
          1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
          2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal
          3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal
          4: All players will submit their vote
          5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal.
     


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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09760.5C5EDFB0-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 07:15:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:15:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1973 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:16:07 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FFEwk67274 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:14:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501c09761$f6158040$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730A@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:14:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09738.0C021640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09738.0C021640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I read this law as implicitly modifying both 305 and (whatever my rul= e on turns was - I'm too lazy to look). My opinion is that if this intends to be a law clarifying the vote process,= a time limit on that process belongs here, and nowhere else. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged = points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in = 305? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on w= hat action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judg= e. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must= vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this qu= estion is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.= Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok= , you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry= , I'll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not b= ecause I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposa= l. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, o= r blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get h= is turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negati= ve... I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of= time will ease the problem. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone take= s too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. = A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on you= r proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make= a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say = I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that= says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here= , I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposin= g a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number=20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing t= he Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing t= he Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote=20 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone= to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would lik= e to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal M= UST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted f= rom their score. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 End Proposal 313 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www.=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09738.0C021640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Well, I read this law as implicitly modify= ing both=20 305 and (whatever my rule on turns was - I'm too lazy to look).
     
    My opinion is that if this intends to be a= law=20 clarifying the vote process, a time limit on that process belongs here, and= =20 nowhere else.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 = 10:02=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revis= ed=20 Proposal 313

    Why=20 can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged poin= ts? I=20 like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in=20 305?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY t= o have a=20 call for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You ca= ll to=20 judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he r= ules=20 against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "= Ok, I=20 will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really=20 hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is = still=20 the judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're= =20 right.  I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't= =20 worry, I'll vote soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point: = I might=20 choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but=20 because I want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might b= e=20 working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. ema= iling=20 Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25bill= ion=20 points or he changes his vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting t= o "yes"=20 after a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2= 001=20 9:33 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] R= evised=20 Proposal 313

    I really don't want to have a time limit o= n this=20 one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does n= ot=20 want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a=20 player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holdin= g up=20 the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to f= ind=20 out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and= I=20 MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I ha= ve to=20 vote should be updated to reflect a time limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 200= 1=20 9:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:<= /B>=20 RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to inc= lude=20 them here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday,= =20 February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains= ]=20 Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal=20 313

          Voting on=20 Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The pl= ayer=20 Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll que= stion=20 will have the Proposal Number
          = 2: An=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
          3: The Poll wil= l=20 include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
          4: All players = will=20 submit their vote=20
          5:=20 The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to=20 vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If y= ou=20 would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted = from=20 your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the P= oll=20 is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    fo= r=20 their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted = from=20 their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the p= enalty=20 for not voting on your proposal.
     


    To unsubscribe from this group, send= an=20 email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe fr= om this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C09738.0C021640-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 07:16:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:16:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 54668 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:16:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:16:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FFGdk67624 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:16:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006701c09762$31ffa2c0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730A@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:15:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0064_01C09738.47F3D9E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C09738.47F3D9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forgot to reply to your first question: Why can't Fritz say that? (Drum-roll, please) Because, he doesn't have the= authority, and we don't have a chief magistrate. (Cymbal hit). ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged = points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in = 305? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on w= hat action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judg= e. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must= vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this qu= estion is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.= Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok= , you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry= , I'll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not b= ecause I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposa= l. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, o= r blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get h= is turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negati= ve... I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of= time will ease the problem. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone take= s too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. = A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on you= r proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make= a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say = I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that= says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here= , I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposin= g a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number=20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing t= he Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing t= he Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote=20 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone= to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would lik= e to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal M= UST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted f= rom their score. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 End Proposal 313 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www.=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C09738.47F3D9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I forgot to reply to your first=20 question:
     
    Why can't Fritz say that?  (Drum-roll= , please)=20 Because, he doesn't have the authority, and we don't have a chief magistrat= e.=20 (Cymbal hit).
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 = 10:02=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revis= ed=20 Proposal 313

    Why=20 can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged poin= ts? I=20 like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in=20 305?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY t= o have a=20 call for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You ca= ll to=20 judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he r= ules=20 against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "= Ok, I=20 will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really=20 hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is = still=20 the judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're= =20 right.  I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't= =20 worry, I'll vote soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point: = I might=20 choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but=20 because I want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might b= e=20 working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. ema= iling=20 Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25bill= ion=20 points or he changes his vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting t= o "yes"=20 after a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    =20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2= 001=20 9:33 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] R= evised=20 Proposal 313

    I really don't want to have a time limit o= n this=20 one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does n= ot=20 want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a=20 player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holdin= g up=20 the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to f= ind=20 out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and= I=20 MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I ha= ve to=20 vote should be updated to reflect a time limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 200= 1=20 9:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:<= /B>=20 RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to inc= lude=20 them here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday,= =20 February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains= ]=20 Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal=20 313

          Voting on=20 Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The pl= ayer=20 Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following=20 specifications:
          1: The Poll que= stion=20 will have the Proposal Number
          = 2: An=20 email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
          3: The Poll wil= l=20 include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
          4: All players = will=20 submit their vote=20
          5:=20 The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to=20 vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If y= ou=20 would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted = from=20 your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the P= oll=20 is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    fo= r=20 their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted = from=20 their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the p= enalty=20 for not voting on your proposal.
     


    To unsubscribe from this group, send= an=20 email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01C09738.47F3D9E0-- From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 15 07:19:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:19:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 81914 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:19:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 15:19:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:19:02 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Revised Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96gs16+bc4q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <006701c09762$31ffa2c0$caa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6142 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Damnit. What did I tell you? Quit your bellyaching. Nobody likes a smart ass. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > I forgot to reply to your first question: > > Why can't Fritz say that? (Drum-roll, please) Because, he doesn't have the authority, and we don't have a chief magistrate. (Cymbal hit). > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in 305? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM > To: scatterbrains@y... > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action? > > Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." etc. > > You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative... > > I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > To: scatterbrains@y... > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. > --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal > 4: All players will submit their vote > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their > score. > > End Proposal 313 > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 07:24:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:24:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 79190 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:24:49 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13069 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AM>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:19:26 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730B@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:19:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09762.AE465D10" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09762.AE465D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I thought you would say that. I kicked myself once I hit the send button -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:16 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I forgot to reply to your first question: Why can't Fritz say that? (Drum-roll, please) Because, he doesn't have the authority, and we don't have a chief magistrate. (Cymbal hit). ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in 305? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action? Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." etc. You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative... I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09762.AE465D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    I thought you would say that. I kicked myself once I hit the send button
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:16 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    I forgot to reply to your first question:
     
    Why can't Fritz say that?  (Drum-roll, please) Because, he doesn't have the authority, and we don't have a chief magistrate. (Cymbal hit).
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this proposal or in 305?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on what action?
     
    Let's say I'm not voting.  You call to judgement, and Fritz is the judge.  Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me.  His ruling is "You must vote."  My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard."  2 weeks later, you call to judgment again.  Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You really must vote."  I say "Ok, you're right.  I *am* going to, but I still haven't decided.  Don't worry, I'll vote soon."  etc.
     
    You're forgetting Fritz's point:  I might choose not to vote, but not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the proposal.  Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative...
     
    I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount of time will ease the problem.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    No time limits?  I don't think you should have to include them here, I'm just surprised.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

    Begin Revised Proposal 313

          Voting on Proposals
    Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule
    will create a Poll with the following specifications:
          1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
          2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal
          3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal
          4: All players will submit their vote
          5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for everyone to vote

    * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to
    change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total
    score for every vote change made.

    * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote
    for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty deducted from their
    score.
     
    End Proposal 313
     
     All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal.
     


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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09762.AE465D10-- From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 07:39:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:39:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 41839 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:39:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14492 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:39:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:41:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <002501c09760$3c5175c0$caa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" WHAT?!? How could he possibly _not_ participate? What meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it doesn't require action on the part of the voter? Amend 305 to read "If a voter does not participate in an open poll within 2 days..." There's no way to do it here. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > Look, if the law is enacted with votes defaulting to "yes", then > the person > knows what's going on. His non-vote is legally understood to be a "yes" > vote. Hence he did participate. *That's the point.* > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > How would you reconcile that with 305? It calls for > "participation", and > > you're saying what happens if a player doesn't participate. If I were > > against a law that was passed by automatic votes, I would call for > judgement > > to force the non-voter to vote under 305. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:44 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that > > > after 2 days > > > your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that should inspire a > > > vote. If > > > the person doesn't particularly care, then, the game moves on. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > > > > > > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a > non-vote is a > > > > yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, > given a time > > > limit > > > > is included. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, > I'm > > > > just surprised. > > > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > Voting on Proposals > > > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a > > > rule > > > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players > detailing the > > > Final > > > > Proposal > > > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or > opposing the > > > > Proposal > > > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for > everyone to > > > vote > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like > to > > > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > > > score for every vote change made. > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the > proposal MUST > > > vote > > > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty > deducted from > > > > their > > > > score. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > www. .com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > > > copying > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 07:48:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:47:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 64392 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:47:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FFlrk71541 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:47:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c09766$8fb5f960$bba811d0@computer> To: References: <96gs16+bc4q@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:47:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" You see. I told you guys that Fritz doesn't like me. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 > Damnit. > > What did I tell you? > > Quit your bellyaching. > > Nobody likes a smart ass. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > I forgot to reply to your first question: > > > > Why can't Fritz say that? (Drum-roll, please) Because, he > doesn't have the authority, and we don't have a chief magistrate. > (Cymbal hit). > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > Why can't Fritz say if you don't vote with in 2 days you will be > charged points? I like the automatic thing but should it be in this > proposal or in 305? > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:49 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for > judgment - on what action? > > > > Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is > the judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His > ruling is "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm > thinking about it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 > weeks later, you call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, > and he rules "You really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* > going to, but I still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." > etc. > > > > You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but > not because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to > stop the proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to > change other people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. > emailing Steve and telling him he'll never get his turn unless he > pays me 25billion points or he changes his vote to negative... > > > > I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain > amount of time will ease the problem. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If > someone takes too long to vote then that player really does not > want to play the game. A judge can be called in to force a player > to vote. Say I don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the > game for no apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment > to find out why I'm not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A > VOTE and I MUST participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule > that says I have to vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include > them here, I'm just surprised. > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > Voting on Proposals > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing > the Final Proposal > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or > opposing the Proposal > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for > everyone to vote > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would > like to > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your > total > > score for every vote change made. > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the > proposal MUST vote > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty > deducted from their > > score. > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your > proposal. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 07:51:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:51:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 60269 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:51:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:51:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:51:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA15797 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:51:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Nobody likes you Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:53:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001801c09766$8fb5f960$bba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You need new friends > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:47 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 > > > You see. > > I told you guys that Fritz doesn't like me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:19 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 > > > > Damnit. > > > > What did I tell you? > > > > Quit your bellyaching. > > > > Nobody likes a smart ass. > > > > -Fritz > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 07:52:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 15:52:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 61188 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 15:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:52:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FFq1k72145 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:52:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001e01c09767$238ddfe0$bba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:51:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, this just means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does not specify how that vote must occur. If the player is told that legally, after 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then legally, his waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. This is still participation on his part. Legally, it is no different than telling a player that if he clicks on a little hole that looks like rat shit, then his vote will be understood to be "yes". It is true that the mechanism for getting intent in this situation is different: it is not a direct vote. But 305 does not say that "every player must vote directly." It simply says that every player must "participate." ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > WHAT?!? How could he possibly _not_ participate? What meaning do the words > "must participate" have in 305 if it doesn't require action on the part of > the voter? > > Amend 305 to read "If a voter does not participate in an open poll within 2 > days..." There's no way to do it here. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 10:02 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > Look, if the law is enacted with votes defaulting to "yes", then > > the person > > knows what's going on. His non-vote is legally understood to be a "yes" > > vote. Hence he did participate. *That's the point.* > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > How would you reconcile that with 305? It calls for > > "participation", and > > > you're saying what happens if a player doesn't participate. If I were > > > against a law that was passed by automatic votes, I would call for > > judgement > > > to force the non-voter to vote under 305. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:44 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that > > > > after 2 days > > > > your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that should inspire a > > > > vote. If > > > > the person doesn't particularly care, then, the game moves on. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > > > > > > > > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a > > non-vote is a > > > > > yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied here, > > given a time > > > > limit > > > > > is included. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them here, > > I'm > > > > > just surprised. > > > > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > Voting on Proposals > > > > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > > Proposing a > > > > rule > > > > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > > > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > > > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players > > detailing the > > > > Final > > > > > Proposal > > > > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or > > opposing the > > > > > Proposal > > > > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > > > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for > > everyone to > > > > vote > > > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like > > to > > > > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your total > > > > > score for every vote change made. > > > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the > > proposal MUST > > > > vote > > > > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty > > deducted from > > > > > their > > > > > score. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > www. .com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > > > > copying > > > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 08:01:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 16:01:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 5467 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 16:01:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:01:44 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:19:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 10:11:25 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 10:11:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:11:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001501c0975e$76dd2ba0$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01b0b3919160f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 9:49, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > But, Bob, seriously, there is NO WAY to have a call for judgment - on > what action > > Let's say I'm not voting. You call to judgement, and Fritz is the > judge. Fritz doesn't like me, so he rules against me. His ruling is > "You must vote." My response is "Ok, I will, but I'm thinking about > it, and this question is really, really hard." 2 weeks later, you > call to judgment again. Fritz is still the judge, and he rules "You > really must vote." I say "Ok, you're right. I *am* going to, but I > still haven't decided. Don't worry, I'll vote soon." etc. Well, the judge would then have to impose a time limit a la Florida. Is that what we want? (That's a real question) > > You're forgetting Fritz's point: I might choose not to vote, but not > because I've just blown off the game, but because I want to stop the > proposal. Behind the scenes, I might be working to change other > people's minds, or blackmailing them - i.e. emailing Steve and telling > him he'll never get his turn unless he pays me 25billion points or he > changes his vote to negative... > > I really think that votes defaulting to "yes" after a certain amount > of time will ease the problem. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:33 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > I really don't want to have a time limit on this one. If someone > takes too long to vote then that player really does not want to play > the game. A judge can be called in to force a player to vote. Say I > don't vote on your proposal and I'm holding up the game for no > apparent reason. You can make a call to judgment to find out why I'm > not casting my vote. The rules say I HAVE A VOTE and I MUST > participate (rules 207 & 305). Maybe the rule that says I have to > vote should be updated to reflect a time limit. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them > here, I'm just surprised. > --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following > specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing > the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question > accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players will > submit their vote 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it > takes for everyone to vote > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would > like to change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from > your total score for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal > MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty > deducted from their score. > > End Proposal 313 > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your proposal. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly > prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 08:04:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 16:04:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 98291 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:04:39 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:22:37 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 10:14:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 10:13:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:13:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002501c09760$3c5175c0$caa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01ca53722160f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 10:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Look, if the law is enacted with votes defaulting to "yes", then the > person knows what's going on. His non-vote is legally understood to > be a "yes" vote. Hence he did participate. *That's the point.* > So the whole damn thing would be based on tacit consent. I agree with E, that there are concerns that do not have to be addressed in THIS proposal. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > How would you reconcile that with 305? It calls for > > "participation", and you're saying what happens if a player doesn't > > participate. If I were against a law that was passed by automatic > > votes, I would call for > judgement > > to force the non-voter to vote under 305. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:44 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > I think that Steven has got it exactly right - if you say that > > > after 2 days your vote automatically becomes "yes", then that > > > should inspire a vote. If the person doesn't particularly care, > > > then, the game moves on. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:22 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > for arguments already expressed, id like to see time limits... > > > > > > > > early on in the group, eug and pat were discussing how a > > > > non-vote is a yes-vote. id like to know if that can be appliied > > > > here, given a time > > > limit > > > > is included. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 9:19 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > No time limits? I don't think you should have to include them > > > > here, > I'm > > > > just surprised. > > > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:20 AM To: > > > > 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] > > > > Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > Voting on Proposals > > > > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player > > > > Proposing a > > > rule > > > > will create a Poll with the following specifications: > > > > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > > > > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players > > > > detailing the > > > Final > > > > Proposal > > > > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or > > > > opposing the > > > > Proposal > > > > 4: All players will submit their vote > > > > 5: The Poll will stay open as long as it takes for > > > > everyone to > > > vote > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would > > > > like > to > > > > change your vote there will be 1 point deducted from your > > > > total score for every vote change made. > > > > > > > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the > > > > proposal MUST > > > vote > > > > for their proposal or there will be a 10 point penalty > > > > deducted from > > > > their > > > > score. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 313 > > > > > > > > All I changed was the penalty for not voting on your > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > www. .com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > > > > this > > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > > > > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly > > > > prohibited. > > > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > << File: ATT00011.htm >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982249361/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 08:28:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 16:28:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 85604 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 16:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:28:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA19723 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:28:32 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001e01c09767$238ddfe0$bba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, this just > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > it does not > specify how that vote must occur. WRONG!!!! The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and the result of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the same doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people took logic at some point... P = Players participates V = a vote has been cast -> = if * and (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > If the player is told that legally, after > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then legally, his > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. This is > still participation on his part. See above... From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 08:35:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 16:35:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 86864 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 16:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:35:40 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20551 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AP>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:30:20 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730C@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:30:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0976C.95DD8A00" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0976C.95DD8A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * The Poll will stay open for a minimum of 2 business days at the end of that time the player that created the Poll has the choice to close the Poll or keep it open but must inform all players that the poll will stay open for what ever length of time the player chooses. Any votes not in by the time the Poll closes will count towards a Yes or Positive vote and the players that did not vote will have 25 points deducted from there score. * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 5 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 Thanks I think I like the sound of this one a little better. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0976C.95DD8A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     Begin Revised=20 Proposal 313

    <= TT>  &nbs= p;  =20 Voting on Proposals
    Voting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will cre= ate a=20 Poll with the following specifications:
      &nbs= p;  =20 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
      &nbs= p;  =20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 4: All players must submit their vote       

     * The Poll will stay open for a mi= nimum=20 of 2 business days at the end of that time the player that=20 created the Poll has the choice to close the Poll or keep it open bu= t=20 must inform all players that the= poll=20 will stay open for what ever length of time the player chooses. Any votes not in b= y the=20 time the Poll closes will count towards a Yes or Positive vote and the play= ers=20 that did not vote will have 25 points deducted from there score.=20

    <= SPAN=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> *=20 If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change = your=20 vote there will be 5 points deducted from your total score for ever= y vote=20 change made.

     *=20 If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for= =20 their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from their= =20 score.

     End Proposal 313

     

    Thanks I think I like the sound of this one a li= ttle=20 better.



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0976C.95DD8A00-- From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 08:48:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 16:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 58534 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21895 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:48:30 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:49:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EC_01C09745.6CC3C200" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730C@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00EC_01C09745.6CC3C200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now I'm against it. The new paragraph won't stand up to a call for judgement. And two days is too long to wait if everyone's cast their vote already. This belongs with 305. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 11:30 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * The Poll will stay open for a minimum of 2 business days at the end of that time the player that created the Poll has the choice to close the Poll or keep it open but must inform all players that the poll will stay open for what ever length of time the player chooses. Any votes not in by the time the Poll closes will count towards a Yes or Positive vote and the players that did not vote will have 25 points deducted from there score. * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 5 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 Thanks I think I like the sound of this one a little better. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00EC_01C09745.6CC3C200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Now=20 I'm against it.  The new paragraph won't stand up to a call for=20 judgement.  And two days is too long to wait if everyone's cast their = vote=20 already.
     
    This=20 belongs with 305.
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Februar= y 15,=20 2001 11:30 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject= :=20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

     
      &n= bsp;  =20 Voting on Proposals
    Voting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will c= reate=20 a Poll with the following specifications:
      &n= bsp;  =20 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
      &n= bsp;  =20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
      &n= bsp;  =20 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
      &n= bsp;  =20 4: All players must submit their vote 
     *=20 If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to chang= e=20 your vote there will be 5=20 points deducted from your total s= core=20 for every vote change made.

     *=20 If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote f= or=20 their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from the= ir=20 score.

      Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09746.DDF68740.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" too verbose... give us technical souls (pat included in this debate, but only temporarily) a hard deadline -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 11:30 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * The Poll will stay open for a minimum of 2 business days at the end of that time the player that created the Poll has the choice to close the Poll or keep it open but must inform all players that the poll will stay open for what ever length of time the player chooses. Any votes not in by the time the Poll closes will count towards a Yes or Positive vote and the players that did not vote will have 25 points deducted from there score. * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 5 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from their score. End Proposal 313 Thanks I think I like the sound of this one a little better. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... << File: ATT00020.htm >> From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 09:07:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13580 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:07:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.100] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 17:07:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:06:59 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Revised Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96h2bj+uhu1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-6 Content-Length: 1833 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 130.68.60.119 From: "Bernardo" Eugene, Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, might have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes." Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an eligible voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on rule-changes." But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must participate. So what's the difference? In the former, it merely specifies that the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken account of. However, as you've seen on other Nomics - this can occur in many ways. As 305 is written, you could have a slave - you could control someone else's vote. That person is still "participating". --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, this just > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > > it does not > > specify how that vote must occur. > > WRONG!!!! > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and the result > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the same > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people took > logic at some point... > > P = Players participates > V = a vote has been cast > -> = if > * and > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then legally, his > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. This is > > still participation on his part. > > See above... From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 09:15:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:15:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 37321 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:15:09 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.91] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 17:15:09 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:15:05 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Revised Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96h2qp+4se0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-6 Content-Length: 629 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 130.68.60.119 From: "Bernardo" > P = Players participates > V = a vote has been cast > -> = if > * and > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has been cast) if players participates? First of all, you've misplaced your parentheses. Secondly, this only describes my argument if you "define" participation via the first clause, as you do, but I do not. But my argument is simply that V -> P. My argument is that P is somewhat open to a mechanical definition. It does not necessarily mean voting. Oh, and we have taken logic. We've also taken philosophy, to determine its limits. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 09:23:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:23:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 57456 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:22:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:40:33 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 11:32:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 11:32:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:32:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730C@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01f203340170f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" You can't please all the people all the time. The automatic yes vote AND a penalty does not make sense. If no vote is an automatic yes, it is a kind of vote. I I would personally prefer the imposition of a time limit without either the implied vote theory OR an automatic penalty. We could leave the structure of imposing penalties to another proposal. It could simply read: All players must cast a vote within N days. In any case 25 seems like an awful lot, what if someone goes to France for two weeks. p On 15 Feb 01, at 11:30, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Begin Revised Proposal 313 > > Voting on Proposals > Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a > rule will create a Poll with the following specifications: > 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number > 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the > Final > Proposal > 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the > Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote > ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > * The Poll will stay open for a minimum of 2 business days at the end > of > that time the player that created the Poll has the choice to close the > Poll or keep it open but must inform all players that the poll will > stay open for what ever length of time the player chooses. Any votes > not in by the time the Poll closes will count towards a Yes or > Positive vote and the players that did not vote will have 25 points > deducted from there score. > > * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to > change your vote there will be 5 points deducted from your total score > for every vote change made. > > * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST > vote > for their proposal or there will be a 25-point penalty deducted from > their score. > > End Proposal 313 > > > > Thanks I think I like the sound of this one a little better. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 09:26:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:26:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 96066 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:25:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: bernardo@c... Received: from [10.1.2.240] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 17:25:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:25:35 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Revised Proposal 313 Message-ID: <96h3ef+cgg4@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-6 Content-Length: 129 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 130.68.60.119 From: "Bernardo" --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > This belongs with 305. > Why? It is defining the vote. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 09:34:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 17:34:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 79534 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 17:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 17:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 17:33:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:51:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 11:43:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 11:42:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:42:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <96h2qp+4se0@eGroups.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01f032751170f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" All logic and philosophy aside, the first part of PB's argument is simply: we can define what it means to participate. I see no problem with that Second, he thinks we should define it in this broad way with automatic votes, and perhaps there are reasons that we do not want such an autonmatic rule, but a discussion of the merits of automatic voting would be more useful I much prefer the punishment for non-voting route. What if I am in France for two weeks? that produces tacit consent for all proposals? On 15 Feb 01, at 17:15, Bernardo wrote: > > P = Players participates > > V = a vote has been cast > > -> = if > > * and > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has > been cast) if players participates? > > First of all, you've misplaced your parentheses. > > Secondly, this only describes my argument if you "define" > participation via the first clause, as you do, but I do not. > > But my argument is simply that V -> P. My argument is that P is > somewhat open to a mechanical definition. It does not necessarily > mean voting. > > Oh, and we have taken logic. We've also taken philosophy, to > determine its limits. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982257349/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 10:02:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 18:02:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 66511 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 18:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:03:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA29353 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:02:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:03:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <96h2qp+4se0@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > P = Players participates > > V = a vote has been cast > > -> = if > > * and > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has > been cast) if players participates? Probably my fault for not spelling it out... P -> V Means that P "is sufficient" for V. In english: if P, V; or if a player participates, a vote has been cast. So: if (( if a player participates, a vote has been cast ) and a vote has been cast), a player has participated. Again: (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE You agree that P -> V, but your arguement is that V -> P, and it's simply logically false. For those of you playing along at home: 1) The statement "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man" takes the logical form S -> M, where S represents the truth in the statement "I'm Socrates", and M represents the truth in the statement "I'm a man". 2) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man" takes the form ( S -> M ) * M ) 3) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man. Therefore I am Socrates" takes the form (( S -> M ) * M ) -> S The rest of your argument depends on the erroneous read... From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 10:32:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 18:32:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 64289 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 18:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:32:06 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA02432 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4AV>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:26:46 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730D@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:26:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0977C.D9C7E930" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0977C.D9C7E930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I really did not want a time limit but this way if a player does not do something for a long time then the community can kick them out. Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create and control a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted from their score. * If a player fails to submit a vote within 25 business days** that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. ** Business Days are defined in Rule 308 End Proposal 313 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0977C.D9C7E930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     I really did not want a time limit but this way = if a=20 player does not do something for a long time then the community can kick th= em=20 out.
     

    Begin Revised=20 Proposal 313

    <= TT>  &nbs= p;  =20 Voting on Proposals

    Voting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will cre= ate=20 and control a Poll with the following specifications:
      &nbs= p;  =20 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
      &nbs= p;  =20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 4: All players must submit their vote 

     * If the Poll is not hidden all vot= es are=20 final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points= =20 deducted from your total score for every vote change=20 made.

     *=20 If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for= =20 their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted from = their=20 score.

     *=20 If a playe= r fails=20 to submit a vote within 25 business days** that player will be held in viol= ation=20 and can be removed if all other players are in=20 agreement.

    ** Business Days are = defined=20 in Rule 308

     

    End Proposal 313

     



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0977C.D9C7E930-- From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 10:53:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 18:53:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 30793 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 18:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:53:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA04563 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:53:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:55:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <96h2bj+uhu1@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Eugene, > > Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, might > have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an eligible voter. > Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on rule-changes." I've already expressed my distaste for reading into the intent of the author. You wouldn't do that it Monopoly. I agreed to play this game by the rules as I read them, not as Suber intended them. I vote for proposals based on what they say, not what they meant to say. > Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. > According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an eligible > voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on rule-changes." I didn't say that participate is meaningless; on the contrary, I believe you're ignoring the meaning of it. What I said was "What meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it[sic] doesn't require action on the part of the voter?" I'm really interrested in your interpretation of the word, if it includes doing nothing. I've already handled the "sufficient, but not necessary" elsewhere. > But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must participate. > So what's the difference? In the former, it merely specifies that > the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken account of. However, as > you've seen on other Nomics - this can occur in many ways. As 305 is > written, you could have a slave - you could control someone else's > vote. That person is still "participating". I'll pick up here when I get more time. As I was writing this, Bob called me laughing his head off. It's apparently become a moot point. --e > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, > this just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > > > it does not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > WRONG!!!! > > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and > the result > > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the > same > > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people > took > > logic at some point... > > > > P = Players participates > > V = a vote has been cast > > -> = if > > * and > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then > legally, his > > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. > This is > > > still participation on his part. > > > > See above... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 11:08:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:08:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 74486 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:08:43 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:26:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:18:27 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:18:18 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:18:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: moot point Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <96h2bj+uhu1@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01eac3926190f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 13:55, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Eugene, > > > > Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, might > > have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an eligible voter. > > Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on > > rule-changes." > > I've already expressed my distaste for reading into the intent of the > author. You wouldn't do that it Monopoly. I agreed to play this game > by the rules as I read them, not as Suber intended them. I vote for > proposals based on what they say, not what they meant to say. > > > Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. > > According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an eligible > > voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on > > rule-changes." > > I didn't say that participate is meaningless; on the contrary, I > believe you're ignoring the meaning of it. What I said was "What > meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it[sic] doesn't > require action on the part of the voter?" I'm really interrested in > your interpretation of the word, if it includes doing nothing. I've > already handled the "sufficient, but not necessary" elsewhere. > > > But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must participate. > > So what's the difference? In the former, it merely specifies that > > the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken account of. However, as > > you've seen on other Nomics - this can occur in many ways. As 305 > > is written, you could have a slave - you could control someone > > else's vote. That person is still "participating". > > I'll pick up here when I get more time. > > As I was writing this, Bob called me laughing his head off. It's > apparently become a moot point. > > --e > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > > > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, > > this just > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > > > > it does not specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > WRONG!!!! > > > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and > > the result > > > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the > > same > > > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people > > took > > > logic at some point... > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > -> = if > > > * and > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > > > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then > > legally, his > > > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. > > This is > > > > still participation on his part. > > > > > > See above... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982263234/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 11:10:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 69997 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:10:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:28:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:19:56 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:19:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:19:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: moot point Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <96h2bj+uhu1@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01c870928190f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 13:55, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Damn, I was wondering how long you would go on with it anyway > > Eugene, > > > > Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, might > > have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an eligible voter. > > Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on > > rule-changes." > > I've already expressed my distaste for reading into the intent of the > author. You wouldn't do that it Monopoly. I agreed to play this game > by the rules as I read them, not as Suber intended them. I vote for > proposals based on what they say, not what they meant to say. > > > Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. > > According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an eligible > > voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on > > rule-changes." > > I didn't say that participate is meaningless; on the contrary, I > believe you're ignoring the meaning of it. What I said was "What > meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it[sic] doesn't > require action on the part of the voter?" I'm really interrested in > your interpretation of the word, if it includes doing nothing. I've > already handled the "sufficient, but not necessary" elsewhere. > > > But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must participate. > > So what's the difference? In the former, it merely specifies that > > the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken account of. However, as > > you've seen on other Nomics - this can occur in many ways. As 305 > > is written, you could have a slave - you could control someone > > else's vote. That person is still "participating". > > I'll pick up here when I get more time. > > As I was writing this, Bob called me laughing his head off. It's > apparently become a moot point. > > --e > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > > > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, > > this just > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > > > > it does not specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > WRONG!!!! > > > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and > > the result > > > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the > > same > > > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people > > took > > > logic at some point... > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > -> = if > > > * and > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > > > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then > > legally, his > > > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. > > This is > > > > still participation on his part. > > > > > > See above... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982263234/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 11:11:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:11:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 74479 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:12:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06325 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:11:49 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] moot point Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:13:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01eac3926190f21ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" If you'd scroll down, I actually said that. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 2:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] moot point > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 13:55, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Eugene, > > > > > > Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, might > > > have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an eligible voter. > > > Every eligible voter must participate in every vote on > > > rule-changes." > > > > I've already expressed my distaste for reading into the intent of the > > author. You wouldn't do that it Monopoly. I agreed to play this game > > by the rules as I read them, not as Suber intended them. I vote for > > proposals based on what they say, not what they meant to say. > > > > > Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. > > > According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an eligible > > > voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on > > > rule-changes." > > > > I didn't say that participate is meaningless; on the contrary, I > > believe you're ignoring the meaning of it. What I said was "What > > meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it[sic] doesn't > > require action on the part of the voter?" I'm really interrested in > > your interpretation of the word, if it includes doing nothing. I've > > already handled the "sufficient, but not necessary" elsewhere. > > > > > But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must participate. > > > So what's the difference? In the former, it merely specifies that > > > the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken account of. However, as > > > you've seen on other Nomics - this can occur in many ways. As 305 > > > is written, you could have a slave - you could control someone > > > else's vote. That person is still "participating". > > > > I'll pick up here when I get more time. > > > > As I was writing this, Bob called me laughing his head off. It's > > apparently become a moot point. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > > > > > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, > > > this just > > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but > > > > > it does not specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > > WRONG!!!! > > > > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", and > > > the result > > > > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is the > > > same > > > > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci people > > > took > > > > logic at some point... > > > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > > -> = if > > > > * and > > > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > > > > > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > > > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then > > > legally, his > > > > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" vote. > > > This is > > > > > still participation on his part. > > > > > > > > See above... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982263234/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 11:18:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:18:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 76974 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:36:36 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:28:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:28:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:28:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] moot points Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01eac3926190f21ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01c313636190f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 14:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > If you'd scroll down, I actually said that. yes, that was what I was replying to. If you look at the second message (first an error) it begins, "damn." The intent of this word was to express my disappointment at the end of the entertainment value of watching you argue a moot point. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 2:18 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] moot point > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 13:55, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > Eugene, > > > > > > > > Re-read the law. Think about why the original author, Suber, > > > > might have worded the law as follows: "Every player is an > > > > eligible voter. Every eligible voter must participate in every > > > > vote on rule-changes." > > > > > > I've already expressed my distaste for reading into the intent of > > > the author. You wouldn't do that it Monopoly. I agreed to play > > > this game by the rules as I read them, not as Suber intended them. > > > I vote for proposals based on what they say, not what they meant > > > to say. > > > > > > > Your reading is that the word "participate" is meaningless. > > > > According to you, he meant to write: "Every player is an > > > > eligible voter. Every eligible voter must vote in every vote on > > > > rule-changes." > > > > > > I didn't say that participate is meaningless; on the contrary, I > > > believe you're ignoring the meaning of it. What I said was "What > > > meaning do the words "must participate" have in 305 if it[sic] > > > doesn't require action on the part of the voter?" I'm really > > > interrested in your interpretation of the word, if it includes > > > doing nothing. I've already handled the "sufficient, but not > > > necessary" elsewhere. > > > > > > > But Suber didn't write this. He wrote that they must > > > > participate. So what's the difference? In the former, it merely > > > > specifies that the "eligible voter" must somehow be taken > > > > account of. However, as you've seen on other Nomics - this can > > > > occur in many ways. As 305 is written, you could have a slave - > > > > you could control someone else's vote. That person is still > > > > "participating". > > > > > > I'll pick up here when I get more time. > > > > > > As I was writing this, Bob called me laughing his head off. It's > > > apparently become a moot point. > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > (clearing my throat for the McLaughlin voice) > > > > > > > > > > > You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see > > > > > > it, > > > > this just > > > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, > > > > > > but it does not specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > > > > WRONG!!!! > > > > > The wording of 305 specifies that a voter "must participate", > > > > > and > > > > the result > > > > > of that participation is a vote. Just because the result is > > > > > the > > > > same > > > > > doesn't mean the action took place. I thought you poly-sci > > > > > people > > > > took > > > > > logic at some point... > > > > > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > > > -> = if > > > > > * and > > > > > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > > > > > (* Hey, you guys quote Socrates all you want...) > > > > > > > > > > > If the player is told that legally, after > > > > > > 40 days and nights, his vote will become a "yes" vote, then > > > > legally, his > > > > > > waiting forty days and nights is understood to be a "yes" > > > > > > vote. > > > > This is > > > > > > still participation on his part. > > > > > > > > > > See above... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982263234/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982264311/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 11:21:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:21:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 35294 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:21:34 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA07357 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:21:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] moot points Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:23:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01c313636190f21ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > If you'd scroll down, I actually said that. > yes, that was what I was replying to. If you look at the second > message (first an error) it begins, "damn." The intent of this word > was to express my disappointment at the end of the entertainment > value of watching you argue a moot point. I didn't say I'd stop. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 11:24:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 19:24:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 93465 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:24:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 19:24:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:25:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:42:33 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:34:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 13:33:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:33:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: fuzzy math Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01c313636190f21ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01c473342190f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 14:23, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > If you'd scroll down, I actually said that. > > > yes, that was what I was replying to. If you look at the second > > message (first an error) it begins, "damn." The intent of this > > word was to express my disappointment at the end of the > > entertainment value of watching you argue a moot point. > > I didn't say I'd stop. > Perhaps instead you might reflect on the power of language in politics. Take for example: "Fuzzy math" > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982264897/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 12:07:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:07:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 11264 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:07:23 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA12323 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:07:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:08:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F8_01C09761.349DC2B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730D@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00F8_01C09761.349DC2B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll buy that -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:27 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313 I really did not want a time limit but this way if a player does not do something for a long time then the community can kick them out. Begin Revised Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create and control a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted from their score. * If a player fails to submit a vote within 25 business days** that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. ** Business Days are defined in Rule 308 End Proposal 313 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00F8_01C09761.349DC2B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I'll=20 buy that
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, Februar= y 15,=20 2001 1:27 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 [scatterbrains] Revised Proposal 313

     
      &n= bsp;  =20 Voting on Proposals
    Voting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will c= reate=20 and control a Poll with the following specifications:
    =   &n= bsp;  =20 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
      &n= bsp;  =20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
      &n= bsp;  =20 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
      &n= bsp;  =20 4: All players must submit their vote 

     * If the Poll is not hidden all v= otes=20 are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points=20 deducted from your total score for every vote change=20 made.

     *=20 If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote f= or=20 their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted fro= m=20 their score.

      X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:41:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 39422 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:41:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA18115 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:41:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:43:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <003901c0978d$37e4d360$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Actually, Alice: The message you're replying to is the one where I point out that I'm wrong. So was I wrong on that, or on the one that referred to. It's gotta be one or the other. OTOH, why don't you continue to ignore what I'm saying, trim my post down to nothing and beat the hell out of one sentence, if a head on rebuttal to my point is too much for you. I'm beginning to see where Paul got that idea of his. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:24 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > P = Players participates > > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > > -> = if > > > > * and > > > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has > > > been cast) if players participates? > > > > Probably my fault for not spelling it out... P -> V Means that P "is > > sufficient" for V. In english: if P, V; or if a player participates, a > vote > > has been cast. > > > Frankly, I don't care about your intent. I agreed to argue this point not > based on what you intended to say, but how I read it. So, you're still > wrong, and your "clarification" is meaningless. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 12:46:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:46:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23893 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:47:09 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:03:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 14:55:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 14:55:32 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:55:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <003901c0978d$37e4d360$c5a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01f1e5903210f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 15:43, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Actually, Alice: > > The message you're replying to is the one where I point out that I'm > wrong. So was I wrong on that, or on the one that referred to. It's > gotta be one or the other. > > OTOH, why don't you continue to ignore what I'm saying, trim my post > down to nothing and beat the hell out of one sentence, if a head on > rebuttal to my point is too much for you. > > I'm beginning to see where Paul got that idea of his. > What idea? p > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:24 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > > > -> = if > > > > > * and > > > > > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a > > > > vote has been cast) if players participates? > > > > > > Probably my fault for not spelling it out... P -> V Means that P > > > "is sufficient" for V. In english: if P, V; or if a player > > > participates, a > > vote > > > has been cast. > > > > > Frankly, I don't care about your intent. I agreed to argue this > > point not based on what you intended to say, but how I read it. So, > > you're still wrong, and your "clarification" is meaningless. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982269718/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 12:47:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:47:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 53218 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:48:11 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FKl4k02469 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:47:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006d01c09790$5b529f00$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:46:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Sigh, Eugene, you're still representing my argument. I know that you think that this symbolic language is fun and makes you look cool, but you ought to read my argument before plugging it in. Here are things as I see them, represented symbolically: P=? The definition of participation is *undetermined*. It can mean all kinds of things. It NEED NOT MEAN VOTING DIRECTLY, as I said. You still insist that I am defining participation as voting, but I AM NOT. OK? Thus your representing the "truth of P" in some kind of logical argument is beside the point and irrelevant. You can make all the diagrams you want, but you still haven't said anything that's to the point. Once again, my argument is that participation is undefined. Suber required participation, and not voting directly, which is an obvious (and logical, you might note) choice. He did not require direct voting, but participation. What is participation, you might ask? I don't know. We haven't defined it yet. Therefore we *CAN* define it as a player's vote defaulting to yes, given that that player is in full knowledge that his vote will default. There is an implied and tacit intent to voting yes, IN THAT CASE, if the person goes over the time-line. Thus he has "PARTICIPATED" although he has not "VOTED DIRECTLY". Another way of looking at it. Since this is logic 101, I'll define the fallacy of the "suppressed middle" in syllogistic logic. All players must participate. (To participate is to vote) Therefore all players must vote. The term in parenthesis is assumed or adopted unconsciously. Such is your argument. You have nowhere shown that participation means voting, nor have you apparently read any of my arguments that claim it is not. My point is just that we ought not to ASSUME the suppressed middle term in the syllogism, but that it ought to be open to argument. You dig? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:03 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > P = Players participates > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > -> = if > > > * and > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has > > been cast) if players participates? > > Probably my fault for not spelling it out... P -> V Means that P "is > sufficient" for V. In english: if P, V; or if a player participates, a vote > has been cast. > > So: > > if (( if a player participates, a vote has been cast ) and a vote has been > cast), a player has participated. > > Again: (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE > > You agree that P -> V, but your arguement is that V -> P, and it's simply > logically false. > > For those of you playing along at home: > > 1) The statement "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man" takes the logical form S -> M, > where S represents the truth in the statement "I'm Socrates", and M > represents the truth in the statement "I'm a man". > 2) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man" takes the form > ( S -> M ) * M ) > 3) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man. Therefore I am > Socrates" takes the form (( S -> M ) * M ) -> S > > The rest of your argument depends on the erroneous read... > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 12:48:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 80309 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:48:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19330 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <01f1e5903210f21ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > I'm beginning to see where Paul got that idea of his. > > > What idea? > p about general nastiness From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 12:48:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 48341 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:49:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FKmrk02589 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007c01c09790$9c3e7e80$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <006d01c09790$5b529f00$c5a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo > Eugene, you're still representing my argument. I know that you think that ^ mis- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 12:49:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 33455 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:49:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FKnck02642 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:49:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008401c09790$b6f57bc0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > about general nastiness > Calm down Eug. From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 12:50:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 53383 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:51:48 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19658 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:52:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <008401c09790$b6f57bc0$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Buy me a beer and I'll calm down! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:49 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > about general nastiness > > > Calm down Eug. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 15 12:59:20 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 58642 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:59:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 20:59:17 -0000 Date: 15 Feb 2001 20:59:16 -0000 Message-ID: <982270756.436.20485.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Please see email marked Final Proposal 313 for details. Will you all please vote for Proposal 313? o Yes, sure Bob I love it! o No way man! I would never... To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From barturo@e... Thu Feb 15 12:59:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 20:59:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 8559 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 20:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 20:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 20:59:24 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21070 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:59:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4A6>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03730F@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: Final Proposal 313 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:54:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09791.6D9A3A50" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09791.6D9A3A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Final Proposal 313 Voting on Proposals Voting will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will create and control a Poll with the following specifications: 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final Proposal 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the Proposal 4: All players must submit their vote * If the Poll is not hidden all votes are final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points deducted from your total score for every vote change made. * If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted from their score. * If a player fails to submit a vote within 25 business days** that player will be held in violation and can be removed if all other players are in agreement. ** Business Days are defined in Rule 308 End Proposal 313 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09791.6D9A3A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Final Proposal 313

    <= TT>  &nbs= p;  =20 Voting on Proposals

    Voting=20 will take place with the use of Polls. The player Proposing a rule will cre= ate=20 and control a Poll with the following specifications:
      &nbs= p;  =20 1: The Poll question will have the Proposal Number
      &nbs= p;  =20 2: An email will be sent out to all the players detailing the Final=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 3: The Poll will include a question accepting or opposing the=20 Proposal
      &nbs= p;  =20 4: All players must submit their vote 

     * If the Poll is not hidden all vot= es are=20 final. If you would like to change your vote there will be 2 points= =20 deducted from your total score for every vote change=20 made.

     *=20 If the Poll is hidden then the person submitting the proposal MUST vote for= =20 their proposal or there will be a 10-point penalty deducted from = their=20 score.

     *=20 If a playe= r fails=20 to submit a vote within 25 business days** that player will be held in viol= ation=20 and can be removed if all other players are in=20 agreement.

    ** Business Days are = defined=20 in Rule 308

     

    End Proposal 313

     



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09791.6D9A3A50-- From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 13:00:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:00:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 76980 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 22:01:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FKxwk03705 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:59:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009601c09792$28bbf580$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > Actually, Alice: > > The message you're replying to is the one where I point out that I'm wrong. > So was I wrong on that, or on the one that referred to. It's gotta be one > or the other. > > OTOH, why don't you continue to ignore what I'm saying, trim my post down to > nothing and beat the hell out of one sentence, if a head on rebuttal to my > point is too much for you. > > I'm beginning to see where Paul got that idea of his. > Dear Arlo: I was simply making the point that we always refer, to some degree or another, to the intent of the author when we read a sentence. The meaning that we are trying to construct from the words is nothing other than this intent. It is true that the better the author, the closer the ostensible meaning will be to his intent, and vice versa: the worse the author, the farther the written meaning will be from the intent. But words *are* nothing more than carriers of our intent, and that of others in our linguistic group. And if you come into my damn restaurant again, I'm gonna kick your ass. Alice. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 13:05:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:05:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 92505 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:05:25 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:23:19 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:15:07 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:15:05 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:15:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <008401c09790$b6f57bc0$c5a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01e871923210f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 15:52, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Buy me a beer and I'll calm down! > I will buyuabeer.com if it ever becomes possible to do so and if you don't calm down, this is really rather entertaining. By the way, P is right about your suppressed middle (and to think it usually takes weeks of sit ups), I think that was what I said a while ago. You should be arguing about what we want "participate" to mean. P is conflating P=? with his argument for the automatic yes. This is a defect of rherorical strategy rather than logic. That is, we can grant that we can define participation but then define it as voting in a poll if we want. Hey, are there punishments for logical fallacies. pk The argument hsoul > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > about general nastiness > > > > > Calm down Eug. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982270246/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 13:11:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 19799 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 22:12:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FLBrk04868 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:11:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b201c09793$d2c0a0c0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <008401c09790$b6f57bc0$c5a811d0@computer> <01e871923210f21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:11:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > You should be arguing about what we want "participate" to mean. > P is conflating P=? with his argument for the automatic yes. This > is a defect of rherorical strategy rather than logic. > Well, I hadn't meant to imply that the Default Yes Movement was the only answer to the problem, just that it was a legitimate one... And I kind of liked it. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 13:18:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:18:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 3825 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:17:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:35:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:27:02 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:26:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:26:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b201c09793$d2c0a0c0$c5a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01fec1235210f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 16:11, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > You should be arguing about what we want "participate" to mean. P is > > conflating P=? with his argument for the automatic yes. This is a > > defect of rherorical strategy rather than logic. > > > Well, I hadn't meant to imply that the Default Yes Movement was the > only answer to the problem, just that it was a legitimate one... > > And I kind of liked it. > Yeah but I don't like it for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with your logic or linguistics. I buy that it a legitimate answer, but I don't think it is a good one. I don't think it matters anymore. What we really need is someone to mete out penalties, then we wouldn't have to write them into every law. Are all armed robberies created equal? > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982271516/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 13:21:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:21:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 17081 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:21:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:21:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:21:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FLLCk05736 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:21:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e201c09795$2029b760$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <01fec1235210f21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:20:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > What we really need is someone to mete out penalties, then we > wouldn't have to write them into every law. > Fritz: Notice, I didn't say it. Not me. As a matter of fact, I'm not even going to say that Paul's got an *excellent* point here. Nope, I'll restrain myself, in your name. p.b. From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 13:24:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:24:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 71919 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:24:10 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA24620 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:24:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:25:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <006d01c09790$5b529f00$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Once again, I will refute what you're saying point by point, and you'll reply by avoiding it, and stating it another way... > Sigh, > > Eugene, you're still representing my argument. I know that you think that > this symbolic language is fun and makes you look cool, but you Those symbols make me look like a geek. This red shirt and smoking makes me look cool. > ought to read > my argument before plugging it in. Here are things as I see them, > represented symbolically: > > P=? > > The definition of participation is *undetermined*. It can mean > all kinds of > things. It NEED NOT MEAN VOTING DIRECTLY, as I said. You still > insist that > I am defining participation as voting, but I AM NOT. OK? Thus your > representing the "truth of P" in some kind of logical argument is > beside the > point and irrelevant. You can make all the diagrams you want, > but you still > haven't said anything that's to the point. You should really pay more attention. The statement I was replying to was this: P>You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, this just P>means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does not P>specify how that vote must occur. You're saying that the action of the player doesn't matter, only the outcome. No matter what a player does, as long as a vote is produced, the Rule's satisfied. Participate is a verb. 305 says "must participate" You're saying that a player "did participate" since a vote "occured", and I meant to demonstrate that your reasoning is ass backward. > Once again, my argument is that participation is undefined. NO: Your argument is that non-participation, since a vote "happens", is participation. I will agree that participation is not spelled out entirely. It does not, however mean "doing nothing." We all know what the word means, right? > Suber required > participation, and not voting directly, which is an obvious (and logical, > you might note) choice. He did not require direct voting, but > participation. What is participation, you might ask? I don't know. We > haven't defined it yet. Therefore we *CAN* define it as a player's vote > defaulting to yes, given that that player is in full knowledge > that his vote > will default. There is an implied and tacit intent to voting yes, IN THAT > CASE, if the person goes over the time-line. Thus he has "PARTICIPATED" > although he has not "VOTED DIRECTLY". > > Another way of looking at it. Since this is logic 101, I'll define the > fallacy of the "suppressed middle" in syllogistic logic. > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to vote) > Therefore all players must vote. Don't misrepresent my point. I agree that 305 doesn't say "vote" explicitly, but I don't think doing nothing constitutes participation. BTW- I would have called it "excluded middle" This is getting boring, and I've got work to do. > > The term in parenthesis is assumed or adopted unconsciously. Such is your > argument. You have nowhere shown that participation means > voting, nor have > you apparently read any of my arguments that claim it is not. > > My point is just that we ought not to ASSUME the suppressed middle term in > the syllogism, but that it ought to be open to argument. > > You dig? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 1:03 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > > > P = Players participates > > > > V = a vote has been cast > > > > -> = if > > > > * and > > > > > > > > (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE !!! > > > > > > > (( Players participates [sic] if a vote has been cast) and a vote has > > > been cast) if players participates? > > > > Probably my fault for not spelling it out... P -> V Means that P "is > > sufficient" for V. In english: if P, V; or if a player participates, a > vote > > has been cast. > > > > So: > > > > if (( if a player participates, a vote has been cast ) and a > vote has been > > cast), a player has participated. > > > > Again: (( P -> V ) * V ) -> P == FALSE > > > > You agree that P -> V, but your arguement is that V -> P, and > it's simply > > logically false. > > > > For those of you playing along at home: > > > > 1) The statement "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man" takes the logical > form S -> > M, > > where S represents the truth in the statement "I'm Socrates", and M > > represents the truth in the statement "I'm a man". > > 2) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man" takes the > form > > ( S -> M ) * M ) > > 3) "If I'm Socrates, I'm a man. And furthermore, I am a man. > Therefore I > am > > Socrates" takes the form (( S -> M ) * M ) -> S > > > > The rest of your argument depends on the erroneous read... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 13:24:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:24:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 26964 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:24:52 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA24682 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:24:51 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:26:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <007c01c09790$9c3e7e80$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" AHA!!!!!!!! i should [sic] you on that > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 3:48 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > Eugene, you're still representing my argument. I know that you > think that > ^ > mis- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 13:30:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 90515 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:00 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA25454 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:29:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:31:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <009601c09792$28bbf580$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Actually, Alice: > > > > > > I'm beginning to see where Paul got that idea of his. > > > Dear Arlo: > > > And if you come into my damn restaurant again, I'm gonna kick your ass. > > Alice. > I was trying to be the White Rabbit From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 13:30:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 91102 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:48:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:39:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:39:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:39:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00e201c09795$2029b760$c5a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01fab0548210f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 16:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > What we really need is someone to mete out penalties, then we > > wouldn't have to write them into every law. > > > Fritz: > > Notice, I didn't say it. Not me. As a matter of fact, I'm not even > going to say that Paul's got an *excellent* point here. Nope, I'll > restrain myself, in your name. > > p.b. > Fritz, I didn't say anything about a CM. did I? but what is a city without police power? > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982272110/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 15 13:30:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 60240 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.95] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2001 21:30:38 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:30:36 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Logic 101 Message-ID: <96hhps+61g9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00e201c09795$2029b760$c5a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 595 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Don't make me come over there. Have you looke at the message total for this group broken down by month? At this rate.... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > What we really need is someone to mete out penalties, then we > > wouldn't have to write them into every law. > > > Fritz: > > Notice, I didn't say it. Not me. As a matter of fact, I'm not even going > to say that Paul's got an *excellent* point here. Nope, I'll restrain > myself, in your name. > > p.b. From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 13:34:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:34:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 4040 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:34:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FLYUk06904 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:34:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ec01c09796$fc02bba0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Logic 101 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:33:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > You should really pay more attention. The statement I was replying to was > this: > > > P>You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I see it, this just > P>means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > not > P>specify how that vote must occur. > > > You're saying that the action of the player doesn't matter, only the > outcome. No matter what a player does, as long as a vote is produced, the > Rule's satisfied. Participate is a verb. 305 says "must participate" > You're saying that a player "did participate" since a vote "occured", and I > meant to demonstrate that your reasoning is ass backward. > But your "demonstration" immediately assumed that participation must be voting. I gave an example, not where the person "did nothing" but where the person "did not directly vote", and "did not directly vote" inside of a *known* context that would read that "not directly voting" as "voting yes". As I pointed out, again and again, the mechanism of participation *can* be changed. > > Once again, my argument is that participation is undefined. > > NO: Your argument is that non-participation, since a vote "happens", is > participation. > See above. You still haven't gotten my argument. We can add another log to fire: straw-man. > I will agree that participation is not spelled out entirely. It does not, > however mean "doing nothing." We all know what the word means, right? > See above. "Doing nothing" within a context that understands it as "voting yes" is not "doing nothing" in the strong sense that you seem to insist on. > BTW- I would have called it "excluded middle" > I know that you would have. But the term "suppressed middle" is used just as frequently. > This is getting boring, and I've got work to do. > Let's see: "False Authority" who are you to say that this is getting boring; "Red Herring" or "Non-sequitor" depending upon how you understand the switch to "work"; implied "Ad hominem" - 'Patrick is boring'; and what do they call that - "Veiled threat" or something, i.e. loaded language? From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 15 13:41:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:41:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 94998 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:41:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:59:31 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:51:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Feb 01 15:50:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:50:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Logic 101 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <96hhps+61g9@eGroups.com> References: <00e201c09795$2029b760$c5a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01e873159210f21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Feb 01, at 21:30, f_hemker@h... wrote: In class today, we talked about why Socrates does not engage in political activity... (apology 32d) > Don't make me come over there. > > Have you looke at the message total for this group broken down > by month? At this rate.... > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > What we really need is someone to mete out > penalties, then we > > wouldn't have to write them into every law. > > > > Fritz: > > Notice, I didn't say it. Not me. As a matter of fact, > I'm not even going > to say that Paul's got an *excellent* point here. > Nope, I'll restrain > myself, in your name. > > p.b. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982272641/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 15 13:41:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:41:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 3768 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 21:41:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1FLfok07787 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:41:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010f01c09798$020b6be0$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <96hhps+61g9@eGroups.com> Subject: Verbosity Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:41:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > Have you looke at the message total for this group broken down > by month? At this rate.... > Hahahaha! Doubled January and we're not even halfway through February! From eventi@n... Thu Feb 15 13:47:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 15 Feb 2001 21:47:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 7134 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 21:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Feb 2001 21:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 22:48:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA27743 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:47:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Verbosity Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:48:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <010f01c09798$020b6be0$c5a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" A dangerous trend... Probably all these short messages > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 4:41 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Verbosity > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Have you looke at the message total for this group broken down > > by month? At this rate.... > > > Hahahaha! Doubled January and we're not even halfway through February! > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 06:45:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 14:45:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 2370 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 14:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 14:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 14:45:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA29395 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:45:54 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Don't forget about the poll Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:47:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" All this bickering and stuff... 3 of you have yet to vote. --e From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 08:41:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 16:41:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 93776 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 16:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 16:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 16:41:56 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GGfsk82575 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:41:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009501c09837$465d0b60$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:41:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > list. > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. (Besides PK is still following this, at least) My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing along at home). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > know you disagree. > > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > be a middle. > > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > guilty of the same. > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 08:57:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 16:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 20509 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 16:57:48 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GGvkk43391 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:57:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009901c09839$7d8ca120$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:57:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > know you disagree. > This is the crux of our disagreement, and in no way is it susceptible to analysis by symbolic logic. What we're arguing about is the *definition* of participation. Symbolic logic can begin only once we have *agreed on the definitions of the terms*. For example, if I insist that the word "lamp" [L] refers to the object that use to trim your beard, and you insist that it means that thing with a bulb in it that you use to read by, then the truth value of the following statement will be quite different for us: L="lamp" R="room is bright" L->R To you this is obviously true, to me, obviously false. Now in this limited case I would be being unreasonable - since we all do know what lamp means. BUT WE DO NOT ALL KNOW WHAT PARTICIPATION MEANS. As I said earlier, you continue to read participation in the *strongest sense possible*. Participation, according to you, means voting directly - the only wiggle room is that "participation" can mean "voting directly to abstain". (Of course, by participating in the sense of abstaining, you don't mean not voting at all, in the sense that when Senators "abstain" they're often sitting at McDonald's flirting with the counter-girls). This is why I said earlier that you read participation as if it were meaningless - it can be replaced in your reading of the sentence by "vote directly" (i.e. every player must participate = every player must vote directly, either for/against or to abstain.) This is simply unreasonable. "Participation" is a fuzzy, open-ended word. It can mean lots of things. Here's another example, hopefully less controversially tied to the proposal at hand: Let's say I go to Spain to relax. Since I don't have any way of checking my email, I voluntarily give Fritz my voting power for the duration. I tell Fritz "Vote for me." Now, during that time, I have participated, since I have voluntarily granted Fritz the right to vote for me, although, as a matter of fact, I have done nothing. I sat on the beach and drank tequila and beer. Nevertheless, I did participate, in some sense. My argument is not that participation *need have this meaning* - just that the meaning that you are continually ascribing to it is *only one of many possible meanings.* > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > be a middle. > What the? EUG - when you say "gave a player a way to not participate" you do MEAN "gave a player a way not to vote directly", right? If not, explain it. If you do, see the syllogism above! As for high school debate tricks, you do know the #1 trick, right? (Hint: you suggest that the other person is using "high school debate tricks". Another hint, it's initials are a. h.) > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > guilty of the same. > Actually my argument is this: All players must participate. To participate is ? [Conclusion still open, depending upon completion of middle term] From barturo@e... Fri Feb 16 08:58:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 16:58:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 22921 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 16:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 16:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:59:44 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22906 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4BK>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:53:17 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037311@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:53:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09838.F54208F0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09838.F54208F0 Content-Type: text/plain That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > list. > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. (Besides PK is still following this, at least) My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing along at home). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > know you disagree. > > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > be a middle. > > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > guilty of the same. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor NextCard Internet Visa - Apply Now To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09838.F54208F0 Content-Type: text/html
    That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>

    > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the
    > list.
    >

    Earlier conversation be damned!  I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because
    I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic.
    (Besides PK is still following this, at least)

    My reply will follow.  (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing
    along at home).

    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo <bernardo@c...>
    > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement:
    > > >
    > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly.  As far as I
    > > see it, this
    > > > just
    > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it
    does
    > > not
    > > > specify how that vote must occur.
    > > >
    > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now.  Perhaps
    that
    > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands.
    >
    > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic
    > voodoo.
    >
    > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each
    player",
    > right?  And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate"
    >
    > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated.
    > -OR-
    > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P )
    >
    > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P
    >
    > And I disagree that V -> P.  Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an
    action,
    > not a result.  I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I
    > know you disagree.
    >
    > Quote:
    > > All players must participate.
    > > (To participate is to vote)
    > > Therefore all players must vote.
    >
    > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man".  I never said,
    or
    > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there
    > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?)
    > middle.  The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate
    in
    > a vote, which could later be called to judgement.  So there didn't need to
    > be a middle.
    >
    > And here's yours:
    >
    > All players must participate.
    > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name)
    > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name.
    >
    > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're
    > guilty of the same.
    >
    >



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    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09838.F54208F0-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 09:00:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:00:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 28630 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:00:32 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GH0Tk43618 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:00:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ad01c09839$dec84ac0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037311@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:59:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C0980F.F4ABB900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C0980F.F4ABB900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did vote, man. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Del= e te immediately if it sickens you. That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game wi= ll be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Hol= iday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delet= e immediately if it sickens you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this fro= m the > list. > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, be= cause I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. (Besides PK is still following this, at least) My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those pl= aying along at home). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but i= t does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perha= ps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic log= ic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participate= d. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V= -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, a= nd I > know you disagree. > > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never s= aid, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (th= ere > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppresse= d(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not partici= pate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't ne= ed to > be a middle. > > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you'r= e > guilty of the same. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C0980F.F4ABB900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I did vote, man.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11= :53=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Conti= nued=20 argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.

    That's fine you can continue the argument... b= ut vote=20 or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Mo= nday=20 is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immedia= tely=20 if it sickens you.


    ----- Original Message=20 -----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>

    > I= n=20 light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from=20 the
    > list.
    >

    Earlier conversation be damned!  = I'm=20 voluntarily putting it back on, because
    I think that it is relevant = to=20 the future shape of our Nomic.
    (Besides PK is still following this, = at=20 least)

    My reply will follow.  (so as to not make it too=20 confusing for those playing
    along at home).

    > >=20 -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > From: Eugene Ventimigl= ia=20 <eventi@n...>
    > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernard= o=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > > From: Paul Kirkla= nd=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > To: Patrick D.=20 Bernardo <bernardo@c...>
    > > > > > On 1= 5 Feb=20 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > &g= t;=20 From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > &g= t;=20 > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    &g= t;=20 > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > I'm specifically talki= ng=20 about this statement:
    > > >
    > > > Pat: You're=20 reading participation too narrowly.  As far as I
    > > see = it,=20 this
    > > > just
    > > > means that there must be = a=20 vote from each and every player, but it
    does
    > > not
    >= ;=20 > > specify how that vote must occur.
    > > >
    > &= gt;=20 Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. =20 Perhaps
    that
    > > is not worded correctly, but my overall=20 argument still stands.
    >
    > That was the paragraph I was rep= lying=20 to with that whole symbolic logic
    > voodoo.
    >
    > Look:= =20 You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for=20 each
    player",
    > right?  And the actual wording in the Rul= e is=20 "must participate"
    >
    > If a vote has been recorded for a pl= ayer,=20 then player has participated.
    > -OR-
    > V -> P ( truth of= V is=20 sufficient proof for truth of P )
    >
    > All I meant to say wa= s=20 that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P
    >
    &g= t;=20 And I disagree that V -> P.  Rule 305 is specific, and calls fo= r=20 an
    action,
    > not a result.  I think it is that way to all= ow=20 for 'abstain' votes, and I
    > know you disagree.
    >
    >=20 Quote:
    > > All players must participate.
    > > (To=20 participate is to vote)
    > > Therefore all players must=20 vote.
    >
    > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "St= raw=20 Man".  I never said,
    or
    > even implied "all players must = vote"=20 I can see how in the context (there
    > used to be one, remember?) = you=20 think I was arguing from the suppressed(?)
    > middle.  The=20 proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate
    in
    &= gt; a=20 vote, which could later be called to judgement.  So there didn't n= eed=20 to
    > be a middle.
    >
    > And here's yours:
    >
    &g= t;=20 All players must participate.
    > (To participate is to have a vote= =20 recorded in your name)
    > Therefore all players must have a vote=20 recorded in their name.
    >
    > You and Paul seem to think I am= =20 guilty of logical falacy, if so you're
    > guilty of the=20 same.
    >
    >



    To unsubscribe from this= =20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C0980F.F4ABB900-- From barturo@e... Fri Feb 16 09:11:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:11:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 10084 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25259 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4BM>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:06:15 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037312@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:06:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0983A.C40AA150" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0983A.C40AA150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just waiting for Steven -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. I did vote, man. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > list. > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. (Besides PK is still following this, at least) My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing along at home). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > know you disagree. > > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > be a middle. > > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > guilty of the same. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0983A.C40AA150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Just waiting for Steven
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.

    I did vote, man.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.

    That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>

    > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the
    > list.
    >

    Earlier conversation be damned!  I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because
    I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic.
    (Besides PK is still following this, at least)

    My reply will follow.  (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing
    along at home).

    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo <bernardo@c...>
    > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement:
    > > >
    > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly.  As far as I
    > > see it, this
    > > > just
    > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it
    does
    > > not
    > > > specify how that vote must occur.
    > > >
    > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now.  Perhaps
    that
    > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands.
    >
    > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic
    > voodoo.
    >
    > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each
    player",
    > right?  And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate"
    >
    > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated.
    > -OR-
    > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P )
    >
    > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P
    >
    > And I disagree that V -> P.  Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an
    action,
    > not a result.  I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I
    > know you disagree.
    >
    > Quote:
    > > All players must participate.
    > > (To participate is to vote)
    > > Therefore all players must vote.
    >
    > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man".  I never said,
    or
    > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there
    > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?)
    > middle.  The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate
    in
    > a vote, which could later be called to judgement.  So there didn't need to
    > be a middle.
    >
    > And here's yours:
    >
    > All players must participate.
    > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name)
    > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name.
    >
    > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're
    > guilty of the same.
    >
    >



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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0983A.C40AA150-- From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 16 09:18:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:17:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 23649 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:17:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:17:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:17:12 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1GHHB029691 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:17:11 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8V00EB41CLLF@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:13:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:13:57 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09811.F0DDAF20.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" im in -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Just waiting for Steven -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. I did vote, man. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > list. > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. (Besides PK is still following this, at least) My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing along at home). > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this > > > just > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it does > > not > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps that > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > voodoo. > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each player", > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > -OR- > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > know you disagree. > > Quote: > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to vote) > > Therefore all players must vote. > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > be a middle. > > And here's yours: > > All players must participate. > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > guilty of the same. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... << File: ATT00042.htm >> From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 09:27:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:27:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 97189 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:27:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GHR0k46663 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:27:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c901c0983d$931c3420$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C09811.F0DDAF20.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:26:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one left to go). I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > im in > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > Just waiting for Steven > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > I did vote, man. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... > ] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete > immediately if it sickens you. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > > list. > > > > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because > I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. > (Besides PK is still following this, at least) > > My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing > along at home). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > > see it, this > > > > just > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it > does > > > not > > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps > that > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > > voodoo. > > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each > player", > > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > > -OR- > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an > action, > > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > > know you disagree. > > > > Quote: > > > All players must participate. > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, > or > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate > in > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > > be a middle. > > > > And here's yours: > > > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > > guilty of the same. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 088:N/A=590992/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1110.yahoo!/B32819.63;sz=468 > x60;ord=982342834?> > > l/S=1700057088:N/A=590992/rand=383298165> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > << File: ATT00042.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 16 09:28:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:28:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25243 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:28:32 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1GHSV030936 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:28:31 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G8V00EOV1VHLF@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:28:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:25:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:25:10 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09813.82121E80.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" we are waiting for bobby, probably -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one left to go). I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > im in > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > Just waiting for Steven > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > I did vote, man. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game will > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal Holiday > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... > ] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete > immediately if it sickens you. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from the > > list. > > > > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, because > I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. > (Besides PK is still following this, at least) > > My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those playing > along at home). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > > see it, this > > > > just > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it > does > > > not > > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps > that > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > > voodoo. > > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each > player", > > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > > -OR- > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> P > > > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an > action, > > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I > > know you disagree. > > > > Quote: > > > All players must participate. > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, > or > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate > in > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to > > be a middle. > > > > And here's yours: > > > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > > guilty of the same. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 088:N/A=590992/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1110.yahoo!/B32819.63;sz=468 > x60;ord=982342834?> > > l/S=1700057088:N/A=590992/rand=383298165> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > << File: ATT00042.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 09:30:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:30:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 67649 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:30:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:30:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:30:58 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GHUtk47251 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:30:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00de01c0983e$1f63c380$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <01C09813.82121E80.sga5892@n...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:30:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own proposal wants to see if he can safely vote against his own... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one left > to go). > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > im in > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game > will > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal > Holiday > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... > > ] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete > > immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from > the > > > list. > > > > > > > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, > because > > I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. > > (Besides PK is still following this, at least) > > > > My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those > playing > > along at home). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > > > see it, this > > > > > just > > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it > > does > > > > not > > > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps > > that > > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > > > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > > > voodoo. > > > > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each > > player", > > > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > > > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > > > -OR- > > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > > > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> > P > > > > > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an > > action, > > > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and > I > > > know you disagree. > > > > > > Quote: > > > > All players must participate. > > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never > said, > > or > > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the > suppressed(?) > > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not > participate > > in > > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need > to > > > be a middle. > > > > > > And here's yours: > > > > > > All players must participate. > > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > > > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > > > guilty of the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > 088:N/A=590992/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1110.yahoo!/B32819.63;sz=468 > > x60;ord=982342834?> > > > > > > l/S=1700057088:N/A=590992/rand=383298165> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > << File: ATT00042.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 09:36:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 17:36:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 22538 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:36:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 17:36:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 18:37:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27845 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:35:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:37:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00de01c0983e$1f63c380$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Please change the subject. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > > A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own > proposal wants to > see if he can safely vote against his own... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one > left > > to go). > > > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > im in > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game > > will > > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal > > Holiday > > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 10:20:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 18:20:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 5812 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 18:20:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 18:20:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 18:20:00 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA02543 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:19:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:21:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Maybe he's off somewhere "participating" > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:37 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] > Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it > sickens you.) > > > Please change the subject. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > > Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own > > proposal wants to > > see if he can safely vote against his own... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one > > left > > > to go). > > > > > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > im in > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" > > Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" > > Dele > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Arturo, Bob > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" > > Dele > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or > else the game > > > will > > > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal > > > Holiday > > > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 16 10:25:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 18:25:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 34930 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 18:25:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:42:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 12:34:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 12:34:52 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: "Eugene Ventimiglia" , scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:34:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <021065942181021ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 16 Feb 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Maybe he's off somewhere "participating" If so, fine, you made the point, vote! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:37 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] > > Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it > > sickens you.) > > > > > > Please change the subject. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > > "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own > > > proposal wants to > > > see if he can safely vote against his own... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > > "Participation" Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least > > > > there's one > > > left > > > > to go). > > > > > > > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > > "Participation" Dele > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > im in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" > > > Dele > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" > > > Dele > > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Arturo, Bob To: > > > > > 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > > "Participation" > > > Dele > > > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or > > else the game > > > > will > > > > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a > > > > > Federal > > > > Holiday > > > > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982347601/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 10:51:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 18:51:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 32815 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 18:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 18:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 18:51:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GIpmk55908 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:51:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c09849$6c43ef80$baa811d0@computer> To: Subject: Off-topic humorous interlude. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:51:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0981F.82275DC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0981F.82275DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From McSweeney's online:=20=20 P O S T - V A L E N T I N E ' S D A Y S P E C I A L : S T A T E D A T E S .=20 BY ALYSIA GRAY PAINTER=20 - - - - NAME: Indiana ("Indy" "Hoosier Honey")=20 OCCUPATION: State=20 BIRTHDAY: December 11th, 18???=20 BIRD: Cardinal=20 FLOWER: Peony=20 A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: Well, after entering the union as the 19th sta= te, I had a lot of success with factory-driven commerce and agriculture. I = guess I started seeing Oregon a little bit after this, it wasn't yet a stat= e, younger than me and all that, not that I go in for that necessarily. The= n Oregon became a state, maybe around 1859? I never heard from the busy Bea= ver State again. My good friend Calif- well, let's just say a good friend, = spotted Oregon under Washington one night and practically every day since. = That hurt a lot. A LOT.=20 YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: A strong state, older than my last fling, not so brash.= Illinois maybe? We've been neighbors for a long time. "Nois" knows my whol= e past and hasn't run yet. Chicago is a good kid, too, loud but loves his p= arent.=20 - - - - STATE: Arizona ("The Zone")=20 OCCUPATION: State (I used to be a Mexican territory, tho - quite the fiesta= )=20 BIRTHDAY: VALENTINE'S DAY OF COURSE! Isn't that romantic? 1912. Here's a sh= out-out to New Mexico - 1912 rules!=20 LOWEST POINT: Breaking up with my ex? Kidding. The Colorado River at 70 fee= t above sea level.=20 FAMOUS GHOST TOWNS: Bisbee, Jerome, Tombstone. And my love life!=20 A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: I'm young, I'm fun, I'm all sun and I got a gr= eat tan line called the Grand Canyon! Take that Montana (private joke)! Any= hoo, I have dated quite a bit. Other states want to know me from A to Z! AZ= . Seriously, I guess my most permanent thing was with Delaware some years b= ack, sort of a May-December deal. Del kept asking when I'd lose my baby fat= - you know, I'm much bigger and bulkier than my petite ex - but what Delaw= are didn't understand is my mass of 114006 square miles is like a law! I ca= n't lose the weight, ever. Sigh. Bring on the sour cream enchiladas! :)=20 YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: Cute flag, good motto, big borders? Phone the Zone!!!=20 - - - - NAME: New York ("New York")=20 OCCUPATION: Filling out damn forms.=20 BIRTHDAY: The 25th of none-of-your-business.=20 POPULATION: My business, not yours.=20 TREE: Plenty.=20 A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: Order the brochure.=20 YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: A mountainous state, if you catch my drift. Lots of mou= ntains. Colorado free?=20 - - - - Dear Indiana, While we couldn't find your ideal match, another state has expressed an int= erest in you. Hint: it begins with a North and ends with Carolina! Would yo= u hoof it for the Tar Heel State? Please respond within 10 days and we'll s= et something up. Congrats! (By the way, Illinois is seeing another state at= the moment and kindly asks that you two "remain friends" for the time bein= g - sorry to break the news.)=20 Dear Arizona, Texas may be your true love. Yippee ki way to go! If that doesn't work out,= get back to us pronto about a pretty New England state that says it wants = "your desert for dessert." Curious? Call us!=20 Dear New York, Colorado is free but not the best mate for you. The home of the Rockies cit= ed air quality, crime and your inability to pick up after yourself as poten= tial problems. That said, we did hear Hong Kong is looking for a mistress a= nd Moscow is seeking "a little something on the side." Game?=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0981F.82275DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    From McSweeney's online: 
     

    P O S T - V A L E N T I N E ' S
    = D A=20 Y   S P E C I A L :
    S T A T E   D A T E S= =20 .


    BY=20 ALYSIA GRAY PAINTER

    - - - -

    NAME: Indiana ("Indy" "Hoosier Honey")=20

    OCCUPATION: State=20

    BIRTHDAY: December 11th, 18???=20

    BIRD: Cardinal=20

    FLOWER: Peony=20

    A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: Well, after entering the union as the 19th= =20 state, I had a lot of success with factory-driven commerce and agriculture.= I=20 guess I started seeing Oregon a little bit after this, it wasn't yet a stat= e,=20 younger than me and all that, not that I go in for that necessarily. Then O= regon=20 became a state, maybe around 1859? I never heard from the busy Beaver State= =20 again. My good friend Calif— well, let's just say a good friend, spot= ted Oregon=20 under Washington one night and practically every day since. That hurt a lot= . A=20 LOT.=20

    YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: A strong state, older than my last fling, not so bra= sh.=20 Illinois maybe? We've been neighbors for a long time. "Nois" knows my whole= past=20 and hasn't run yet. Chicago is a good kid, too, loud but loves his parent.= =20

    - - - -

    STATE: Arizona ("The Zone")=20

    OCCUPATION: State (I used to be a Mexican territory, tho — qu= ite the=20 fiesta)=20

    BIRTHDAY: VALENTINE'S DAY OF COURSE! Isn't that romantic? 1912. Here's a= =20 shout-out to New Mexico — 1912 rules!=20

    LOWEST POINT: Breaking up with my ex? Kidding. The Colorado River at 70 = feet=20 above sea level.=20

    FAMOUS GHOST TOWNS: Bisbee, Jerome, Tombstone. And my love life!=20

    A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: I'm young, I'm fun, I'm all sun and I got a= =20 great tan line called the Grand Canyon! Take that Montana (private joke)!=20 Anyhoo, I have dated quite a bit. Other states want to know me from A to Z!= AZ.=20 Seriously, I guess my most permanent thing was with Delaware some years bac= k,=20 sort of a May-December deal. Del kept asking when I'd lose my baby fat = ;—=20 you know, I'm much bigger and bulkier than my petite ex — but wh= at Delaware=20 didn't understand is my mass of 114006 square miles is like a law! I can't = lose=20 the weight, ever. Sigh. Bring on the sour cream enchiladas! :)=20

    YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: Cute flag, good motto, big borders? Phone the Zone!!= !=20

    - - - -

    NAME: New York ("New York")=20

    OCCUPATION: Filling out damn forms.=20

    BIRTHDAY: The 25th of none-of-your-business.=20

    POPULATION: My business, not yours.=20

    TREE: Plenty.=20

    A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF: Order the brochure.=20

    YOUR IDEAL PARTNER: A mountainous state, if you catch my drift. Lots of= =20 mountains. Colorado free?=20

    - - - -

    Dear Indiana,
    While we couldn't find your ideal match, another state = has=20 expressed an interest in you. Hint: it begins with a North and ends with=20 Carolina! Would you hoof it for the Tar Heel State? Please respond within 1= 0=20 days and we'll set something up. Congrats! (By the way, Illinois is seeing= =20 another state at the moment and kindly asks that you two "remain friends" f= or=20 the time being — sorry to break the news.)=20

    Dear Arizona,
    Texas may be your true love. Yippee ki way to go! If th= at=20 doesn't work out, get back to us pronto about a pretty New England state th= at=20 says it wants "your desert for dessert." Curious? Call us!=20

    Dear New York,
    Colorado is free but not the best mate for you. The ho= me of=20 the Rockies cited air quality, crime and your inability to pick up after=20 yourself as potential problems. That said, we did hear Hong Kong is looking= for=20 a mistress and Moscow is seeking "a little something on the side." Game?=20

     

    ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0981F.82275DC0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 12:05:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 20:05:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 3975 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:05:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 20:05:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:05:28 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13235 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:05:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:06:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <009901c09839$7d8ca120$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > > see it, this > > > > just > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it > does > > > not > > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps > that > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > > voodoo. > > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each > player", > > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > > -OR- > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't > mean V -> P > > > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an > action, > > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' > votes, and I > > know you disagree. > > > This is the crux of our disagreement, and in no way is it susceptible to > analysis by symbolic logic. What we're arguing about is the > *definition* of > participation. Symbolic logic can begin only once we have *agreed on the > definitions of the terms*. For example, if I insist that the word "lamp" > [L] refers to the object that use to trim your beard, and you > insist that it > means that thing with a bulb in it that you use to read by, then the truth > value of the following statement will be quite different for us: > L="lamp" > R="room is bright" > > L->R > > To you this is obviously true, to me, obviously false. Now in > this limited > case I would be being unreasonable - since we all do know what lamp means. > BUT WE DO NOT ALL KNOW WHAT PARTICIPATION MEANS. > > As I said earlier, you continue to read participation in the *strongest > sense possible*. Participation, according to you, means voting directly - > the only wiggle room is that "participation" can mean "voting directly to > abstain". (Of course, by participating in the sense of abstaining, you > don't mean not voting at all, in the sense that when Senators "abstain" > they're often sitting at McDonald's flirting with the > counter-girls). This > is why I said earlier that you read participation as if it were > meaningless - it can be replaced in your reading of the sentence by "vote > directly" (i.e. every player must participate = every player must vote > directly, either for/against or to abstain.) I cannot argue against a misrepresentation of my stance. I didn't define participate, I simply said that the definition does _not_ include doing nothing. Passively allowing one's vote to be cast on their behalf does not constitute an action. You on the other hand did define participation. I gotta quote the statement once again: > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > see it, this just means that there must be a vote from each > and every player, but it does not specify how that vote must occur. 1) Participation results in votes being cast. 2) If a vote has been cast on one's behalf, one has participated. MY ARGUMENT, ONCE AGAIN: The presence of a vote does not prove that participation has happened. AGAIN: I'm not defining participation. > This is simply unreasonable. "Participation" is a fuzzy, open-ended word. > It can mean lots of things. Here's another example, hopefully less > controversially tied to the proposal at hand: Let's say I go to Spain to > relax. Since I don't have any way of checking my email, I > voluntarily give > Fritz my voting power for the duration. I tell Fritz "Vote for me." Now, > during that time, I have participated, since I have voluntarily granted > Fritz the right to vote for me, although, as a matter of fact, I have done > nothing. I sat on the beach and drank tequila and beer. Nevertheless, I > did participate, in some sense. Yeah. You proxied your vote. Is that just a bad example? Counter-Example 1: Let's say I go to Bangkok to relax. Counter-Example 2: Let's say I go to Bangkok to relax. OK, in which one of these situations did I participate? > > My argument is not that participation *need have this meaning* - just that > the meaning that you are continually ascribing to it is *only one of many > possible meanings.* I'll ignore the "continually ascribing to it" bit... > > > Quote: > > > All players must participate. > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I > never said, > or > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the > suppressed(?) > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not > participate > in > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there > didn't need to > > be a middle. > > > What the? EUG - when you say "gave a player a way to not participate" you > do MEAN "gave a player a way not to vote directly", right? If > not, explain > it. If you do, see the syllogism above! The proposal gave players a way to "do nothing". And as I've stated, that's not participation. > > As for high school debate tricks, you do know the #1 trick, right? (Hint: > you suggest that the other person is using "high school debate tricks". > Another hint, it's initials are a. h.) I was never very good at memorization... I'd call it "pulling a W" > > And here's yours: > > > > All players must participate. > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > > guilty of the same. > > > Actually my argument is this: > > All players must participate. > To participate is ? > [Conclusion still open, depending upon completion of middle term] Once again: By your statement, you acknowledge the existance of a vote on a player's behalf as participation. I will post this to the list, but I won't respond to anything but a direct response to my argument. From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Feb 16 12:31:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 99793 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 20:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:31:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.30] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2001 20:31:19 -0000 Date: 16 Feb 2001 20:31:15 -0000 Message-ID: <982355475.383.63552.qj@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Please see email marked Final Proposal 313 for details. Will you all please vote for Proposal 313? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, sure Bob I love it!, 4 votes, 66.67% - No way man! I would never..., 2 votes, 33.33% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes, sure Bob I love it! - sga5892@n... - f_hemker@h... - eventi@c... - barturo@e... - No way man! I would never... - bernardo@c... - pkirklan@e... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From barturo@e... Fri Feb 16 12:32:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 20:32:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 75081 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 20:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:32:15 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15762 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:32:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4BV>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:26:50 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037313@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:26:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09856.CA181840" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09856.CA181840 Content-Type: text/plain Shhhhhhhhhh -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own proposal wants to see if he can safely vote against his own... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven G. Arturo To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one left > to go). > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > im in > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game > will > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal > Holiday > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... > > ] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete > > immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from > the > > > list. > > > > > > > Earlier conversation be damned! I'm voluntarily putting it back on, > because > > I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic. > > (Besides PK is still following this, at least) > > > > My reply will follow. (so as to not make it too confusing for those > playing > > along at home). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement: > > > > > > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > > > see it, this > > > > > just > > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it > > does > > > > not > > > > > specify how that vote must occur. > > > > > > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now. Perhaps > > that > > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands. > > > > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic logic > > > voodoo. > > > > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each > > player", > > > right? And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate" > > > > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has participated. > > > -OR- > > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P ) > > > > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean V -> > P > > > > > > And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an > > action, > > > not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and > I > > > know you disagree. > > > > > > Quote: > > > > All players must participate. > > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never > said, > > or > > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the > suppressed(?) > > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not > participate > > in > > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need > to > > > be a middle. > > > > > > And here's yours: > > > > > > All players must participate. > > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name) > > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name. > > > > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're > > > guilty of the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=180243.1329639.2923449.1268964/D=egroupmail/S=1700057 > > > 088:N/A=590992/* http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1110.yahoo!/B32819.63;sz=468 > > x60;ord=982342834?> > > > > > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=180243.1329639.2923449.1268964/D=egroupmai > > l/S=1700057088:N/A=590992/rand=383298165> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > << File: ATT00042.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09856.CA181840 Content-Type: text/html
    Shhhhhhhhhh
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.

    A-ha!  The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own proposal wants to
    see if he can safely vote against his own...

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Steven G. Arturo <sga5892@n...>
    To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele
    te immediately if it sickens you.


    > we are waiting for bobby, probably
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...]
    > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele
    te immediately if it sickens you.
    >
    > Steve, did you vote?  It's still not registering (at least there's one
    left
    > to go).
    >
    > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over!
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Steven G. Arturo <sga5892@n...>
    > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele
    > te immediately if it sickens you.
    >
    >
    > > im in
    > >
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...]
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM
    > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    Dele
    > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > > Just waiting for Steven
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    Dele
    > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > >
    > > I did vote, man.
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Arturo, Bob <mailto:barturo@e...>
    > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    > <mailto:'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'>
    > >
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM
    > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    Dele
    > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game
    > will
    > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal
    > Holiday
    > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!!
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c...
    > > <mailto:bernardo@c...> ]
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:41 AM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete
    > > immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    > >
    > > > In light of our other conversations, I'm voluntarily pulling this from
    > the
    > > > list.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Earlier conversation be damned!  I'm voluntarily putting it back on,
    > because
    > > I think that it is relevant to the future shape of our Nomic.
    > > (Besides PK is still following this, at least)
    > >
    > > My reply will follow.  (so as to not make it too confusing for those
    > playing
    > > along at home).
    > >
    > > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > > > To: Patrick D. Bernardo <bernardo@c...>
    > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 01, at 16:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > > I'm specifically talking about this statement:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly.  As far as I
    > > > > see it, this
    > > > > > just
    > > > > > means that there must be a vote from each and every player, but it
    > > does
    > > > > not
    > > > > > specify how that vote must occur.
    > > > > >
    > > > > Hey now, don't go "taking one statement out of context" now.
    Perhaps
    > > that
    > > > > is not worded correctly, but my overall argument still stands.
    > > >
    > > > That was the paragraph I was replying to with that whole symbolic
    logic
    > > > voodoo.
    > > >
    > > > Look: You're stating that 305 says "a vote must be tallied for each
    > > player",
    > > > right?  And the actual wording in the Rule is "must participate"
    > > >
    > > > If a vote has been recorded for a player, then player has
    participated.
    > > > -OR-
    > > > V -> P ( truth of V is sufficient proof for truth of P )
    > > >
    > > > All I meant to say was that while P -> V is true, that doesn't mean
    V ->
    > P
    > > >
    > > > And I disagree that V -> P.  Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an
    > > action,
    > > > not a result.  I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes,
    and
    > I
    > > > know you disagree.
    > > >
    > > > Quote:
    > > > > All players must participate.
    > > > > (To participate is to vote)
    > > > > Therefore all players must vote.
    > > >
    > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man".  I never
    > said,
    > > or
    > > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context
    (there
    > > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the
    > suppressed(?)
    > > > middle.  The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not
    > participate
    > > in
    > > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement.  So there didn't
    need
    > to
    > > > be a middle.
    > > >
    > > > And here's yours:
    > > >
    > > > All players must participate.
    > > > (To participate is to have a vote recorded in your name)
    > > > Therefore all players must have a vote recorded in their name.
    > > >
    > > > You and Paul seem to think I am guilty of logical falacy, if so you're
    > > > guilty of the same.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this
    > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or
    > copying
    > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited.
    > >
    > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > > webmaster@e....
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > >
    > >
    >
    <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=180243.1329639.2923449.1268964/D=egroupmail/S=1700057
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    088:N/A=590992/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N1110.yahoo!/B32819.63;sz=468
    > > x60;ord=982342834?>
    > >
    > >
    >
    <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=180243.1329639.2923449.1268964/D=egroupmai
    > > l/S=1700057088:N/A=590992/rand=383298165>
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
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    > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or
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    > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited.
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    > > webmaster@e....
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    > >
    > >  << File: ATT00042.htm >>
    > >
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    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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    >
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    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    >
    >
    >



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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09856.CA181840-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 12:34:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 20:34:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 35108 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 20:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:34:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GKYck66822 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:34:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c09857$cc185fa0$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:33:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 3:06 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. > > This is the crux of our disagreement, and in no way is it susceptible to > > analysis by symbolic logic. What we're arguing about is the > > *definition* of > > participation. Symbolic logic can begin only once we have *agreed on the > > definitions of the terms*. For example, if I insist that the word "lamp" > > [L] refers to the object that use to trim your beard, and you > > insist that it > > means that thing with a bulb in it that you use to read by, then the truth > > value of the following statement will be quite different for us: > > L="lamp" > > R="room is bright" > > > > L->R > > > > To you this is obviously true, to me, obviously false. Now in > > this limited > > case I would be being unreasonable - since we all do know what lamp means. > > BUT WE DO NOT ALL KNOW WHAT PARTICIPATION MEANS. > > > > As I said earlier, you continue to read participation in the *strongest > > sense possible*. Participation, according to you, means voting directly - > > the only wiggle room is that "participation" can mean "voting directly to > > abstain". (Of course, by participating in the sense of abstaining, you > > don't mean not voting at all, in the sense that when Senators "abstain" > > they're often sitting at McDonald's flirting with the > > counter-girls). This > > is why I said earlier that you read participation as if it were > > meaningless - it can be replaced in your reading of the sentence by "vote > > directly" (i.e. every player must participate = every player must vote > > directly, either for/against or to abstain.) > > I cannot argue against a misrepresentation of my stance. I didn't define > participate, I simply said that the definition does _not_ include doing > nothing. Passively allowing one's vote to be cast on their behalf does not > constitute an action. > > You on the other hand did define participation. I gotta quote the statement > once again: > > > Pat: You're reading participation too narrowly. As far as I > > see it, this just means that there must be a vote from each > > and every player, but it does not specify how that vote must occur. > > 1) Participation results in votes being cast. > 2) If a vote has been cast on one's behalf, one has participated. > > MY ARGUMENT, ONCE AGAIN: > The presence of a vote does not prove that participation has happened. > > AGAIN: I'm not defining participation. > Tell me what proves participation has happened, without defining participation. And, at the same time, you must also define what you mean by "doing nothing". Actually, it's in the latter that I think that you implicitly define participation as voting. So, please, define "doing nothing" - and don't say "going to Bangkok." Define it in relation to Nomic (so, going to Bangkok, with this affect/relation to Nomic...) > > > This is simply unreasonable. "Participation" is a fuzzy, open-ended word. > > It can mean lots of things. Here's another example, hopefully less > > controversially tied to the proposal at hand: Let's say I go to Spain to > > relax. Since I don't have any way of checking my email, I > > voluntarily give > > Fritz my voting power for the duration. I tell Fritz "Vote for me." Now, > > during that time, I have participated, since I have voluntarily granted > > Fritz the right to vote for me, although, as a matter of fact, I have done > > nothing. I sat on the beach and drank tequila and beer. Nevertheless, I > > did participate, in some sense. > > Yeah. You proxied your vote. Is that just a bad example? > Nope it's precisely the right example. My contention is that if you can transfer your vote to a person, you can also transfer it to the community at large, *if we decide to do that.* And by the way, since we're being obnoxious about language: proxy is a noun, not a verb. > Counter-Example 1: > Let's say I go to Bangkok to relax. > > Counter-Example 2: > Let's say I go to Bangkok to relax. > > OK, in which one of these situations did I participate? > In neither of these situations, given that that context is as *it currently stands*. However, if we modify the Counter-Examples to read as such: 1) I go to Bangkok. 2) I go to Bangkok, and there is a law that says not personally entering a vote after 2 days means voting yes. In situation 1, you did not participate, clearly. But in situation 2, you clearly *did* participate, since you knew that "not personally entering your vote" meant "voting yes". > > > > > My argument is not that participation *need have this meaning* - just that > > the meaning that you are continually ascribing to it is *only one of many > > possible meanings.* > > I'll ignore the "continually ascribing to it" bit... > Why? If you're going to try to make fun of me for bad usage, you'd better buy a dictionary: OED: ascribe [word origin stuff deleted]1) *trans.* To annex or add in writing, to subscribe...; to dedicate to...; to enroll in a classs...; to appoint...; 2)To enter *to*, or to the credit of, in an account; to _assign, impute, refer, as due to_...; 3)_To reckon or count *to*_, _as a characteristic, etc._ (*rarely* as a material possession); [... -other definitions ommitted.] All elipses refer to dates of introduction of the meaning, except for the last, which is clarified in the brackets. All emphases marked by ** are in the original; the _ _ are added to make clear how the definition applies to my usage of the word. > > > > > Quote: > > > > All players must participate. > > > > (To participate is to vote) > > > > Therefore all players must vote. > > > > > > Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I > > never said, > > or > > > even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there > > > used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the > > suppressed(?) > > > middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not > > participate > > in > > > a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there > > didn't need to > > > be a middle. > > > > > What the? EUG - when you say "gave a player a way to not participate" you > > do MEAN "gave a player a way not to vote directly", right? If > > not, explain > > it. If you do, see the syllogism above! > > The proposal gave players a way to "do nothing". And as I've stated, that's > not participation. > Ok, please define "participation." Apparently, each time I try to make clear your viewpoint, you say I've got it wrong, so please, tell me what participation is. Although I'd rather hear what "doing nothing" is. See above. > > Actually my argument is this: > > > > All players must participate. > > To participate is ? > > [Conclusion still open, depending upon completion of middle term] > > Once again: By your statement, you acknowledge the existance of a vote on a > player's behalf as participation. > And so do you, if you accept the proxy situation above. > I will post this to the list, but I won't respond to anything but a direct > response to my argument. > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, you claim that I'm not. I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 12:44:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 20:44:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 58452 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 20:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:45:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GKi5k67836 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:44:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002d01c09859$1bf49920$cba811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score report for Round 313 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:43:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0982F.31D80760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0982F.31D80760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And the Score-Keeper summoned all of Scatterbrains, and said to them "Hear,= O Scatterbrains, the scores and points which I speak in your hearing this = day, and you shall learn them and be careful to note them.=20=20 "Yea, Bob Arturo shall receive unto him 10 points for the passage of Rule 3= 13 Verily, Patrick Bernardo shall receive unto him 10 points for voting agains= t Rule 313, which hath passed Verily, Paul Kirkland shall receive unto him 10 points for voting against R= ule 313, which hath passed The others shall gnash their teeth and wail for they shall not get points "Hear therefore, O Scatterbrains, and be careful to note them; that it may = go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly, as the Score-Keeper ha= s wished for you, in a land flowing with milk and honey." So let it be written, so let it be done. EV:64 PB:48 SA:39 BA:30 PK:20.5 FH:18.5 ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0982F.31D80760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    And the Score-Keeper summoned all of Scatt= erbrains,=20 and said to them "Hear, O Scatterbrains, the scores and points which I spea= k in=20 your hearing this day, and you shall learn them and be careful to note=20 them. 
     
    "Yea, Bob Arturo shall receive unto h= im 10=20 points for the passage of Rule 313
    Verily, Patrick Bernardo shall receiv= e unto=20 him 10 points for voting against Rule 313, which hath passed
    Verily, Paul Kirkland shall receive unto h= im 10=20 points for voting against Rule 313, which hath passed
    The others shall gnash their teeth an= d wail=20 for they shall not get points
     
    "Hear therefore, O Scatterbrains, and be c= areful to=20 note them; that it may go well with you, and that you may multiply greatly,= as=20 the Score-Keeper has wished for you, in a land flowing with milk and=20 honey."
     
    So let it be written, so let it be=20 done.
     
    EV:64
    PB:48
    SA:39
    BA:30
    PK:20.5
    FH:18.5
    ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C0982F.31D80760-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 13:13:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 21:13:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 63510 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 21:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:13:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GLDck71010 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:13:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008301c0985d$3c72a260$cba811d0@computer> To: Subject: A reminder... Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:12:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01C09833.525F3860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C09833.525F3860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In order to keep the message count down, I won't send this each time, so th= is is it until we get new members. I just want to remind you that you can visit http://www.scatterbrains.com/s= cores.html in order to view the table listing the change in scores. I'll maintain this table so that it reflects my emailed "Score Reports". The scores page looks groovy (e's work), so check it out. Bye. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C09833.525F3860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    In order to keep the message count down, I= won't=20 send this each time, so this is it until we get new members.
     
    I just want to remind you that you can vis= it http://www.scatterbrains.= com/scores.html=20 in order to view the table listing the change in scores.
     
    I'll maintain this table so that it reflec= ts my=20 emailed "Score Reports".
     
    The scores page looks groovy (e's work), s= o check=20 it out.
     
    Bye.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C09833.525F3860-- From barturo@e... Fri Feb 16 13:15:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 21:15:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 88458 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 21:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:15:16 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19958 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:15:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4B9>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:09:51 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037318@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Conti nued argument about "Participation" Delete immediately if it sickens you. ) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:09:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0985C.CCC29010" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0985C.CCC29010 Content-Type: text/plain Unlike some of you I have to do work. I had to go out to a customers site to fix something that the on site computer geniuses tried to fix. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:37 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.) Please change the subject. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele te immediately if it sickens you. > > > A-ha! The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own > proposal wants to > see if he can safely vote against his own... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steven G. Arturo > To: > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > we are waiting for bobby, probably > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" Dele > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > Steve, did you vote? It's still not registering (at least there's one > left > > to go). > > > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about > "Participation" Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > im in > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > Just waiting for Steven > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > > > > I did vote, man. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" > Dele > > > te immediately if it sickens you. > > > > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game > > will > > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal > > Holiday > > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!! > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0985C.CCC29010 Content-Type: text/html
    Unlike some of you I have to do work. I had to go out to a customers site to fix something that the on site computer geniuses tried to fix.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:37 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: The mysterious absence of Bob (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele te immediately if it sickens you.)

    Please change the subject.

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:30 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    > Dele te immediately if it sickens you.
    >
    >
    > A-ha!  The man who wants to outlaw voting against your own
    > proposal wants to
    > see if he can safely vote against his own...
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Steven G. Arturo <sga5892@n...>
    > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:25 PM
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation" Dele
    > te immediately if it sickens you.
    >
    >
    > > we are waiting for bobby, probably
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...]
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:26 PM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about
    > "Participation" Dele
    > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > > Steve, did you vote?  It's still not registering (at least there's one
    > left
    > > to go).
    > >
    > > I wanna get the report in, and my lunch break's almost over!
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Steven G. Arturo <sga5892@n...>
    > > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:13 PM
    > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about
    > "Participation" Dele
    > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > >
    > >
    > > > im in
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Arturo, Bob [SMTP:barturo@e...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:06 PM
    > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    > Dele
    > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > > >
    > > > Just waiting for Steven
    > > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 12:00 PM
    > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    > Dele
    > > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I did vote, man.
    > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: Arturo, Bob <mailto:barturo@e...>
    > > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    > > <mailto:'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'>
    > > >
    > > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:53 AM
    > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Continued argument about "Participation"
    > Dele
    > > > te immediately if it sickens you.
    > > >
    > > > That's fine you can continue the argument... but vote or else the game
    > > will
    > > > be held up and I'm going to Cancun next week and Monday is a Federal
    > > Holiday
    > > > and and and... JUST VOTE ALREADY!!!
    > > >



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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0985C.CCC29010-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 13:24:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 21:24:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 90860 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 21:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:24:09 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA20787 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:24:08 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:25:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001301c09857$cc185fa0$cba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha From barturo@e... Fri Feb 16 13:42:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 21:42:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 37035 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 21:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 22:43:47 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22510 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:42:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4B0>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731A@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09860.A39817B0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09860.A39817B0 Content-Type: text/plain It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! 3 DVDs for ONLY 49 cents each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09860.A39817B0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    It's=20 over Johnnie... It's over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] boring


    > I've *been*=20 responding, right underneath yours, each time.  And each time,
    &g= t;=20 you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish you would stop tryi= ng to=20 insult me, and just deal with the
    > argument.  It makes you lo= ok=20 kind of desperate, really.

    Ha



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09860.A39817B0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 13:49:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 21:49:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 55030 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:49:22 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA23097 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:49:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:50:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01C8_01C09838.9E18F480" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731A@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_01C8_01C09838.9E18F480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you get. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name below and press GO! www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_01C8_01C09838.9E18F480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I'm=20 just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it wouldn'= t=20 degenerate into that.  With an audience, this is what you=20 get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Friday, February = 16,=20 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's=20 over Johnnie... It's over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] boring


    > I've *been*=20 responding, right underneath yours, each time.  And each time,
    = >=20 you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish you would stop tr= ying=20 to insult me, and just deal with the
    > argument.  It makes y= ou=20 look kind of desperate, really.

    Ha



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_01C8_01C09838.9E18F480-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 16 14:57:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 22:57:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 27885 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 22:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 22:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 22:57:14 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:14:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 17:06:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 17:06:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:06:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: buymeabeer.com Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731A@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <022875714231021ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Did you see buyuabeer.com is available message? (a more edifying off topic discussion) On 16 Feb 01, at 16:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, > it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you > get. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > It's over Johnnie... It's over... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > > > > > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And > each > time, > > you claim that I'm not. > > > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal > with > the > > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. > > Ha > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name > below and > press GO! > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 15:02:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:02:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 46748 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 23:02:56 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GN2qk87535 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:02:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c0986c$7e5714e0$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:02:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C09842.9429BA40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C09842.9429BA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's just too immatu= re and playing to the crowd" you ought to consider that I've just been goin= g blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right fr= om the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there.=20=20 And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well understood. I implore you again: Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it wrong. What do = you mean by "participation" and "doing nothing"? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it w= ouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you get. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And eac= h time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal wit= h the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confi= dential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of = this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e= ngineeredsecurity.com.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C09842.9429BA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Before you start getting all "high and mig= hty,"=20 that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to consid= er=20 that I've just been going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right from the start, and = neither=20 one of us can claim the high ground there. 
     
    And the implication of the retreat into no= n-being=20 is well understood.
     
    I implore you again:
     
    Explain your argument clearly, if you thin= k that I=20 have it wrong.  What do you mean by "participation" and "doing=20 nothing"?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:= 50=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] borin= g

    I'm=20 just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it would= n't=20 degenerate into that.  With an audience, this is what you=20 get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@engineere= dsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's over Johnnie... It's=20 over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimigli= a=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:= 26=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] boring


    > I've *been*=20 responding, right underneath yours, each time.  And each=20 time,
    > you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish y= ou=20 would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the
    >=20 argument.  It makes you look kind of desperate,=20 really.

    Ha



    To unsubscribe from this gr= oup,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C09842.9429BA40-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 15:04:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:04:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 51524 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:06:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA28293 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:04:56 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:06:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C09843.2CCDF5E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001d01c0986c$7e5714e0$c4a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C09843.2CCDF5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there. And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well understood. I implore you again: Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it wrong. What do you mean by "participation" and "doing nothing"? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you get. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C09843.2CCDF5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    See?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 6:02=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    Before you start getting all "high and m= ighty,"=20 that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to cons= ider=20 that I've just been going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right from the start, an= d=20 neither one of us can claim the high ground there. 
     
    And the implication of the retreat into = non-being=20 is well understood.
     
    I implore you again:
     
    Explain your argument clearly, if you th= ink that=20 I have it wrong.  What do you mean by "participation" and "doing=20 nothing"?
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 4:50=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list convers= ation,=20 it wouldn't degenerate into that.  With an audience, this is what = you=20 get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@enginee= redsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoog= roups.com'
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's over Johnnie... It's=20 over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 4:26=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] boring


    > I've *been*= =20 responding, right underneath yours, each time.  And each=20 time,
    > you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish= you=20 would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the
    >=20 argument.  It makes you look kind of desperate,=20 really.

    Ha



    To unsubscribe from this= =20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_01DA_01C09843.2CCDF5E0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 15:07:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:07:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 79592 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:08:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA28461 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:07:14 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] buymeabeer.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <022875714231021ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I can't stand names like that. Makes me cringe... BTW- I resurrected my Wiki: http://www.scatterbrains.com/wiki/html/MyWeb/Here.htm It's a clearing house for un-used Ideas. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:07 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] buymeabeer.com > > > Did you see buyuabeer.com is available message? > (a more edifying off topic discussion) > > On 16 Feb 01, at 16:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, > > it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you > > get. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > > > > It's over Johnnie... It's over... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > > > > > > > > > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And > > each > > time, > > > you claim that I'm not. > > > > > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal > > with > > the > > > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. > > > > Ha > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name > > below and > > press GO! > > www. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 15:09:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:09:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 84362 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:10:11 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GN93k88179 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:09:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004501c0986d$5b391a20$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:08:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0042_01C09843.7125B020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C09843.7125B020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are we supposed to see? I've admitted that neither one of us has been= completely clean here. I've asked you to give me a reasonable reply. ? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring See? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's just too im= mature and playing to the crowd" you ought to consider that I've just been = going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm righ= t from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there. = =20 And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well understood. I implore you again: Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it wrong. What= do you mean by "participation" and "doing nothing"? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, = it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you get. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And= each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal= with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this c= onfidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying= of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmast= er@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C09843.7125B020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    What are we supposed to see?  I've ad= mitted=20 that neither one of us has been completely clean here.
     
    I've asked you to give me a reasonable=20 reply.
     
    ?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:= 06=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] borin= g

    See?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Before you start getting all "high and= mighty,"=20 that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to=20 consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right fro= m the=20 start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there. =20
     
    And the implication of the retreat int= o=20 non-being is well understood.
     
    I implore you again:
     
    Explain your argument clearly, if you = think=20 that I have it wrong.  What do you mean by "participation" and "do= ing=20 nothing"?
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    =20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 200= 1 4:50=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list=20 conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that.  With an audienc= e,=20 this is what you get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@engin= eeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yaho= ogroups.com'
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's over Johnnie... It's=20 over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventim= iglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 200= 1=20 4:26 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject= :=20 [scatterbrains] boring


    > I've *bee= n*=20 responding, right underneath yours, each time.  And each=20 time,
    > you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wi= sh=20 you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the
    >= ;=20 argument.  It makes you look kind of desperate,=20 really.

    Ha



    To unsubscribe from thi= s=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C09843.7125B020-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 16 15:16:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:16:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 35729 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:16:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:16:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:17:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA29002 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:16:31 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:17:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E4_01C09844.CAAB35B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <004501c0986d$5b391a20$c4a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_01E4_01C09844.CAAB35B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This "calling out" in public crap is what I'm referring to. Keep it up. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:08 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring What are we supposed to see? I've admitted that neither one of us has been completely clean here. I've asked you to give me a reasonable reply. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring See? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm right from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there. And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well understood. I implore you again: Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it wrong. What do you mean by "participation" and "doing nothing"? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you get. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_01E4_01C09844.CAAB35B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    This=20 "calling out" in public crap is what I'm referring to.  Keep it=20 up.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 6:08=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    What are we supposed to see?  I've = admitted=20 that neither one of us has been completely clean here.
     
    I've asked you to give me a reasonable=20 reply.
     
    ?
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 = 6:06=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    See?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogrou= ps.com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Before you start getting all "high a= nd=20 mighty," that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" you = ought=20 to consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you:=20 your posts have been filled with s= arcasm=20 right from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground= =20 there. 
     
    And the implication of the retreat i= nto=20 non-being is well understood.
     
    I implore you again:
     
    Explain your argument clearly, if yo= u think=20 that I have it wrong.  What do you mean by "participation" and "= doing=20 nothing"?
    ----- Original Message -----
    = From:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2= 001=20 4:50 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= =20 boring

    I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list=20 conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that.  With an audie= nce,=20 this is what you get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [= mailto:barturo@eng= ineeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@ya= hoogroups.com'
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's over Johnnie... It's=20 over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Vent= imiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2= 001=20 4:26 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains= ]=20 boring


    > I've *been* responding,= =20 right underneath yours, each time.  And each time,
    >= you=20 claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish you would sto= p=20 trying to insult me, and just deal with the
    > argument.&n= bsp;=20 It makes you look kind of desperate,=20 really.

    Ha



    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe fr= om this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
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    ------=_NextPart_000_01E4_01C09844.CAAB35B0-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 15:22:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:22:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17290 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 23:22:19 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1GNMEk89425 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:22:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005701c0986f$32b09900$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:21:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01C09845.489280A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C09845.489280A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Irony: "Calling me out" in public for "calling out".(e.g. "You're a jerk b= ecause you insult people") I'd really rather talk about the issue. I think it's important to the futu= re shape of Nomic. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring This "calling out" in public crap is what I'm referring to. Keep it up. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:08 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring What are we supposed to see? I've admitted that neither one of us has = been completely clean here. I've asked you to give me a reasonable reply. ? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring See? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's just to= o immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to consider that I've just b= een going blow for blow with you: your posts have been filled with sarcasm = right from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high ground there= .=20=20 And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well understoo= d. I implore you again: Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it wrong. = What do you mean by "participation" and "doing nothing"? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list conversati= on, it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an audience, this is what you g= et. -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring It's over Johnnie... It's over... -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each time. = And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just = deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of desperate, really. Ha To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of th= is confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or cop= ying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at web= master@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name below an= d press GO!=20=20 www.=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C09845.489280A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Irony:  "Calling me out" in public fo= r=20 "calling out".(e.g. "You're a jerk because you insult people")
     
    I'd really rather talk about the issue.&nb= sp; I=20 think it's important to the future shape of Nomic.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:= 17=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] borin= g

    This=20 "calling out" in public crap is what I'm referring to.  Keep it=20 up.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 6:08 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    What are we supposed to see?  I'v= e=20 admitted that neither one of us has been completely clean here.<= /DIV>
     
    I've asked you to give me a reasonable= =20 reply.
     
    ?
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16, 200= 1 6:06=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    See?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bern= ardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...<= /A>]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Before you start getting all "high= and=20 mighty," that "Pat's just too immature and playing to the crowd" yo= u=20 ought to consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you:= =20 your posts have been filled with= sarcasm=20 right from the start, and neither one of us can claim the high grou= nd=20 there. 
     
    And the implication of the retreat= into=20 non-being is well understood.
     
    I implore you again:
     
    Explain your argument clearly, if = you think=20 that I have it wrong.  What do you mean by "participation" and= =20 "doing nothing"?
    ----- Original Message ----- Eugene= =20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om=20
    Sent: Friday, February 16,= 2001=20 4:50 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrain= s]=20 boring

    I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list=20 conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that.  With an=20 audience, this is what you get.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob= [mailto:barturo@e= ngineeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@= yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    It's over Johnnie... It's=20 over...
    -----Original Message-----
    From:= =20 Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrai= ns]=20 boring


    > I've *been* respondin= g,=20 right underneath yours, each time.  And each time,
    &g= t;=20 you claim that I'm not.
    >
    > I really wish you wou= ld=20 stop trying to insult me, and just deal with the
    >=20 argument.  It makes you look kind of desperate,=20 really.

    Ha



    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    =


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is= not the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby= =20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission = is=20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified= =20 recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e...= .=20





    To unsubscribe = from=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
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    ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01C09845.489280A0-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 16 15:44:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 16 Feb 2001 23:44:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 42871 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Feb 2001 23:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:45:47 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:02:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 17:54:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Feb 01 17:54:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:54:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005701c0986f$32b09900$c4a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <021472702001121ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Since I suspect that the only way to resolve any fo your tension will be to carry this conversation on in private adn since I have actually been trying to follow the argumetns I ask if I can be included in the list. I will keep my mouth shut if you want, but I would like to seriously read the arguments for the merits. If this messes up your privacy well fine, but I would rather hear debate than insults (and i will also not be greatly effected by either of your need to insult the other) Since I said I would stay out fo the private discussion even if you let me see it. Let me first state things as I see them. I do think it is an important issue for the game, but I also think that it could be conducted on the level of what we think participate SHOULD mean, not what it can mean. Do the two of you really disagree about that It seems that you agree that it does not simply mean cast a vote nor can it mean do nothing. Since voting by polls was not codified when the rule requiring participation went into effect there seems to be room for debate. If we can participate (or even vote) as we want, then a debate (which I think everyone might be interested in joining) regarding what possiblities to consider could begin. Just to state my position "to participate" seems to demand that each player do SOMETHING actively AT SOME TIME. If I wrote that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. What "must participate" seems to prohibit is: I am going to France for two weeks so go on without me, close the polls, and do not count my vote. What ways a vote can be cast other than directly seems to be an open and quite worthwhile debate. Can I sell it? Can I give it to a proxy? Can I say count it as No until otherwise informed I am not going to look at this until its my turn? a yes? Are mechanisms for automatic registration of votes permitted. One might say I participated so long as a voted on the proposal to adopt such a mechanism. We may want to disallow some of these things, but I think that the only thing I could not do is suspend my vote altogether. I would read "must participate" to mean must actively at some point do something that makes my vote count [on each proposal] btw, something else to resolve, does this apply to elections or only proposals? On 16 Feb 01, at 18:21, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Irony: "Calling me out" in public for "calling out".(e.g. "You're a > jerk because you insult people") > > I'd really rather talk about the issue. I think it's important to the > future shape of Nomic. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:17 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > This "calling out" in public crap is what I'm referring to. Keep it > up. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring > > > What are we supposed to see? I've admitted that neither one of us > has been completely clean here. > > I've asked you to give me a reasonable reply. > > ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:06 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > See? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 6:02 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring > > > Before you start getting all "high and mighty," that "Pat's > just too immature and playing to the crowd" you ought to > consider that I've just been going blow for blow with you: > your posts have been filled with sarcasm right from the start, > and neither one of us can claim the high ground there. > > And the implication of the retreat into non-being is well > understood. > > I implore you again: > > Explain your argument clearly, if you think that I have it > wrong. What do you mean by "participation" and "doing > nothing"? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > I'm just tired of it... If it were a private, off list > conversation, it wouldn't degenerate into that. With an > audience, this is what you get. > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:37 PM To: > 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: > [scatterbrains] boring > > > It's over Johnnie... It's over... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] boring > > > > > I've *been* responding, right underneath yours, each > time. And each time, > you claim that I'm not. > > I > really wish you would stop trying to insult me, and just > deal with the > argument. It makes you look kind of > desperate, really. > > Ha > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient > of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that > any distribution or copying of this transmission is > strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us > at webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Do you know the name you want? Enter the domain name > below and press GO! > www. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > From eventi@w... Fri Feb 16 16:46:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 17 Feb 2001 00:46:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 9845 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 00:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2001 00:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 00:46:17 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1H1hFB06318 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:43:15 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA04720; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:46:16 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] boring In-Reply-To: 986f32b X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1419@w...> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:46:16 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... My point is that this is no longer of public interrest. You said off list that you didn't want a pissing contest, and this is nothing but that. The final straw for me, By the way, was "it really makes you look kinda desperate." To whom? The public? Why would that be of any interrest to me, I wanted this off the list. Are you concerned that I shouln't "look desperate" to you? As for your going point for point with me, the closest you came was by misrepresenting my definition and attacking that. A tactic that simply wouldn't work if there were no audience. You've asked me to state my definition, when I've never claimed to have one. If I refuse to do so, does it somehow validate yours? My argument is against your definition, not for one of my own. As for "doing nothing." Surrounding an expression in quotes doesn't make the words any less meaningful. No definition of that would help or hurt my argument. My point is, once again: Your re-statement of Rule 305 shows that you accept a vote cast on a player's behalf as evidence of 'participation' I disagree, not because of my own definition of 'participate,' but because the result of participation, which is by your extrapolation, a vote, cannot prove participation. What's boring is typing that for the 5th time, only to have it answered by irrelevant attacks on 'my definition'. If I stated it unclearly that time, why not look back at one of the 64 messages from yesterday. Or at the end of the OL message that you, Paul and I were passing around. And while you're at it, take an objective look at your arguments. You really have not yet directly replied to my objection, only to assumptions about it. This morning, you claimed that P=? and I quite clearly demonstrated that your initial claim was P=V. Why don't you respond to that? Instead of "no you didn't" read back a bit. Your response was asking me for definitions... From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 16 21:08:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 17 Feb 2001 05:08:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 2307 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 05:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Feb 2001 05:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 06:09:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1H57xk21329 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:07:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c0989f$7fa7cfa0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1419@w...> Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 00:07:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > My point is that this is no longer of public interrest. You said off list that you didn't want a pissing contest, and this is nothing but that. > Well, "public interest" depends. I'm *not* interested in a pissing contest. The reason why I've been pushing for a public argument is that you've publicly declared your intention to challenge a law that lets players vote implicitly. For example, you'd vote against, and call to judgement on, the law that would have votes default to "yes" after 2 days. That intention to challenge would have an affect on how people think about the laws, and how they draw up new ones. > The final straw for me, By the way, was "it really makes you look kinda desperate." To whom? The public? Why would that be of any interrest to me, I wanted this off the list. Are you concerned that I shouln't "look desperate" to you? > Yes, it did make you look desperate to *me*, just as your claim that I'm not responding to you is not directed to the audience, right? (That isn't sarcasm, truly, but intended as a parallel. I really thought that your desire was to push the debate away from the issue...) Again, I only wanted it *on* list, as I stated many times, because it is a public issue that affects the future shape of the Nomic. If we could debate it anonymously, that'd be fine with me. > As for your going point for point with me, the closest you came was by misrepresenting my definition and attacking that. A tactic that simply wouldn't work if there were no audience. You've asked me to state my definition, when I've never claimed to have one. If I refuse to do so, does it somehow validate yours? My argument is against your definition, not for one of my own. > I know that you've never *claimed* to have one. That's my problem. It has been my case all along that you are working with an *assumed* definition. Since you consistently argued that I've got things incorrectly, I simply asked for clarification. You claimed that voting by default was doing nothing. I've been arguing that contained within that claim is an assumed definition of participation. That's why I asked you to define "doing nothing". I figured that if you actually tried to spell it out, you'd see what I meant. Your argument is not just "against mine". It is clearly staking a claim about what "doing nothing" and "not participating" mean. It's my point that you can't argue the way that you have without assuming something, and that your attempted refutation actually assumes more than you are willing to let on. It's for that reason that I asked you to make explicit what was implicit. > As for "doing nothing." Surrounding an expression in quotes doesn't make the words any less meaningful. No definition of that would help or hurt my argument. > See above. I *do* think that it would hurt your argument; however, if your definition was not as I stated, it might help your argument. Surrounding it in quotes is not intended to make your words more or less meaningful. I'm just tired of hearing you bounce back and forth between talking about "participation" and "doing nothing", while assuming buckets about both terms, and never being explicit about them. For instance, you said "Passively allowing one's vote to be cast on their behalf does not constitute an action." Why not, if it is fully clear to a person that such would be the result? I've asked you to clarify this point time and time again, and you've refused. I know that you've joined cd clubs where they send you a cd in the mail if you don't mail back the card in time. Try and take them to court, and tell them the very statement that you wrote above. It wouldn't fly, because the argument just doesn't work. It is well known that in certain contexts "passively allowing" is an action. > My point is, once again: > Your re-statement of Rule 305 shows that you accept a vote cast on a player's behalf as evidence of 'participation' I disagree, not because of my own definition of 'participate,' but because the result of participation, which is by your extrapolation, a vote, cannot prove participation. > As I've said before, and I have read and replied to this countless times. I can't reply on the same level, because I feel that you've got it all muddled. We have to have something called participation. Right now, that means that all players must vote. In the future, that could be modified to mean that some players have others vote for them. I'm not sure how your redefinition of my argument describes it. > What's boring is typing that for the 5th time, only to have it answered by irrelevant attacks on 'my definition'. If I stated it unclearly that time, why not look back at one of the 64 messages from yesterday. Or at the end of the OL message that you, Paul and I were passing around. And while you're at it, take an objective look at your arguments. You really have not yet directly replied to my objection, only to assumptions about it. > Your argument there is "And I disagree that V -> P. Rule 305 is specific, and calls for an action, not a result. I think it is that way to allow for 'abstain' votes, and I know you disagree." "Add to your list of high school debate tricks "Straw Man". I never said, or even implied "all players must vote" I can see how in the context (there used to be one, remember?) you think I was arguing from the suppressed(?) middle. The proposal, in my view, gave a player a way to not participate in a vote, which could later be called to judgement. So there didn't need to be a middle." This is clearly much stronger than simply arguing against my claim. > This morning, you claimed that P=? and I quite clearly demonstrated that your initial claim was P=V. Why don't you respond to that? Instead of "no you didn't" read back a bit. Your response was asking me for definitions... > You demonstrated nothing of the sort, Eug. Here's the funny thing. You give a representation of my argument that I don't - and have never agreed with - if I tell you that I disagree with it, you attack me for "not responding to the argument." I don't buy your redescription of my argument, ok. Re-type it 80billion times if you want, and I'll respond the same way each time. You still haven't gotten it right. Check the history of this thread. How did it begin? You claimed that Steven's amendment to the rule was against the rules. I stated that it clearly was not. You then made a strong claim about what participation meant. I'm fine with this if you are now disavowing that claim. Here's my position (which is basically in agreement with what Paul K just posted.) (BTW, I know that your claim will be that I didn't read back, but I did. I think that you misread the statement, jumped into the logical argument, and got stuck defending it. As you will see, my immediate reply to your attempt at a demonstration is that you misread the argument. You ignored that, however, and plowed on.): Participation is a word that may mean more than one thing, as far as how we actually, mechanically, take note of it. Abstractly, it means something like "a member registering his intent". That's still not exactly what I mean, since, if you take a look at my first response, it is my position that a player's voting right may be transferred, and he should still be understood to have participated. As Paul pointed it, it's in fact easier to define it the other way: if a vote is run, and there is no response attributed to a player (whether by that player, his proxy, or the group in his name, in a prearranged circumstance), then that person has not participated. But participation can be redefined. Hence, the argument p=?. Now, you can go ahead and "demonstrate" that I'm arguing P=V, but you see, I'm doing no such thing. That's misrepresenting my argument, as I claimed a while back. I'm really not sure why you're so upset about this, since I think that we're broadly in agreement. I mean the funny thing is that we're both claiming that other is arguing that P=V. So how about this, can we agree on endorsing Paul K's post? I know that I would sign it as a co-sponsor. From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 17 06:53:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 17 Feb 2001 14:53:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 80071 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 14:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2001 14:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 15:54:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.190]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1HErjk69315 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:53:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c098f1$543d07c0$bea811d0@computer> To: References: <021472702001121ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:53:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > If I wrote > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. This is probably the more fruitful discussion. From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 17 11:57:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 17 Feb 2001 19:57:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 96294 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 19:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2001 19:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 19:57:15 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.213]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1HJvDk91568 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c0991b$b9198cc0$d5a811d0@computer> To: Subject: An attempt at reconciliation Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:56:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C098F1.CEEAAB80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C098F1.CEEAAB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, I've gone back through the archives more carefully, and here's what I t= hink is going on: We're both arguing that the other is not replying to our argument, but chan= ging the terms. This is absolutely true on both fronts, because there are = two arguments that got intertwined, and in the precise sense confused. I've been arguing about one argument, and you've been arguing about the oth= er - so of course we're talking past each other! A) "The Steven Amendment": Steve posted that it would be a good idea to ha= ve a time limit of 2 days, after which the votes that had not been specifie= d would default to "yes". I supported this argument, and you (e) argued th= at it was illegal because of the participation clause. Mayhem ensued. B) "The Logical Paragraph": In my attempted defense of Steven's argument, = one of the paragraphs contained a short and loose summary of my basic posit= ion. You claimed that it was illogical, and translated it into symbolic lo= gic. I've been arguing about "The Steven Amendment" and you've been arguing abou= t "The Logical Paragraph". Argument B does indeed belong off-list, but arg= ument A certainly belongs on-list. For argument B, you need not stake out a position on "participation" or "do= ing nothing"; for argument A, you certainly do. So, for the purposes of everybody being friendly - and above all, fulfillin= g the consummate American virtue, being *nice* - let's take argument B, if = you want to pursue it, off-list. However, I want argument A to at least remain officially unresolved. If yo= u want to insist that "The Steven Amendment" is illegal, that's something t= hat should be discussed on-list. (Perhaps responding to the Kirkland Initi= ative. Ohh, that's Orwellian sounding! Paul - let's start some kind of th= ink-tank!) ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C098F1.CEEAAB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Ok, I've gone back through the archives mo= re=20 carefully, and here's what I think is going on:
     
    We're both arguing that the other is not r= eplying=20 to our argument, but changing the terms.  This is absolutely true on b= oth=20 fronts, because there are two arguments that got intertwined, and in the pr= ecise=20 sense confused.
     
    I've been arguing about one argument, and = you've=20 been arguing about the other - so of course we're talking past each=20 other!
     
    A) "The Steven Amendment":  Steve pos= ted that=20 it would be a good idea to have a time limit of 2 days, after which the vot= es=20 that had not been specified would default to "yes".  I supported this= =20 argument, and you (e) argued that it was illegal because of the participati= on=20 clause.  Mayhem ensued.
     
    B) "The Logical Paragraph":  In my at= tempted=20 defense of Steven's argument, one of the paragraphs contained a short and l= oose=20 summary of my basic position.  You claimed that it was illogical, and= =20 translated it into symbolic logic.
     
    I've been arguing about "The Steven Amendm= ent" and=20 you've been arguing about "The Logical Paragraph".  Argument B does in= deed=20 belong off-list, but argument A certainly belongs on-list.
     
    For argument B, you need not stake out a p= osition=20 on "participation" or "doing nothing"; for argument A, you certainly=20 do.
     
    So, for the purposes of everybody being fr= iendly -=20 and above all, fulfilling the consummate American virtue, being *nice* - le= t's=20 take argument B, if you want to pursue it, off-list.
     
    However, I want argument A to at least rem= ain=20 officially unresolved.  If you want to insist that "The Steven Amendme= nt"=20 is illegal, that's something that should be discussed on-list.  (Perha= ps=20 responding to the Kirkland Initiative.  Ohh, that's Orwellian=20 sounding!  Paul - let's start some kind of=20 think-tank!)
    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C098F1.CEEAAB80-- From eventi@n... Sat Feb 17 22:06:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 18 Feb 2001 06:06:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 93312 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 06:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2001 06:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 06:06:41 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA23214 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:06:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003701c09971$00f53d00$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <000a01c0991b$b9198cc0$d5a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] An attempt at reconciliation Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:06:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Genius!!! > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > Ok, I've gone back through the archives more carefully, and here's > what I think is going on: > > We're both arguing that the other is not replying to our argument, but > changing the terms. This is absolutely true on both fronts, because > there are two arguments that got intertwined, and in the precise sense > confused. > > I've been arguing about one argument, and you've been arguing about > the other - so of course we're talking past each other! I totally didn't see that, but you're right. This was a big part of my overall exhaustion > A) "The Steven Amendment": Steve posted that it would be a good idea > to have a time limit of 2 days, after which the votes that had not > been specified would default to "yes". I supported this argument, and > you (e) argued that it was illegal because of the participation > clause. Mayhem ensued. And I did so in the same email as the Argument B below, hence the misunderstanding... > B) "The Logical Paragraph": In my attempted defense of Steven's > argument, one of the paragraphs contained a short and loose summary of > my basic position. You claimed that it was illogical, and translated > it into symbolic logic. > > I've been arguing about "The Steven Amendment" and you've been arguing > about "The Logical Paragraph". Argument B does indeed belong off- > list, but argument A certainly belongs on-list. We were doing so well up to this point. I never intended to argue A in any way except by B. I'll state my objections to it in another email, but they have nothing to do with the idea of a time limit. I believe, as you correctly state, that it's contradicts the second sentence of 305. BTW: I'm not offering it into the debate, but do you get a sense of deja-vu from this? Hint: It led to the language "but may not include the substitution of a new rule" > For argument B, you need not stake out a position on "participation" > or "doing nothing"; for argument A, you certainly do. > > So, for the purposes of everybody being friendly - and above all, > fulfilling the consummate American virtue, being *nice* - let's take > argument B, if you want to pursue it, off-list. > > However, I want argument A to at least remain officially unresolved. > If you want to insist that "The Steven Amendment" is illegal, that's > something that should be discussed on-list. (Perhaps responding to > the Kirkland Initiative. Ohh, that's Orwellian sounding! Paul - > let's start some kind of think-tank!) Agreed on both B is off list, and A will remain unresolved. As I previously stated, I'll state my position on A in a future email. From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 18 21:28:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 05:28:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 54121 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 05:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 05:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 05:28:25 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:46:46 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 18 Feb 01 23:38:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 18 Feb 01 23:38:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:37:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] An attempt at reconciliation Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003701c09971$00f53d00$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <020e44646051321ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I am replying without the mesage becaue i would not want to ruin the appearance of your beautiful dialogue, but if you have come to this much "reconciliation" it might be time to remind you that "not illegal" and "a good idea" are two separate arguments. My position and why I have attempted to parse the arguments is that an automatic Yes rule would be "not illegal" but not "a good idea" The really fruitful argument on the merits (rather than the legality) of such a measure still needs to take place. I guess it "needs to" only if anyone still plans to propose such a thing. Paul From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 18 21:30:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 19 Feb 2001 05:30:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 21542 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 05:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2001 05:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 05:29:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:48:15 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 18 Feb 01 23:39:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 18 Feb 01 23:39:22 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:39:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Presdient's day Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <022e41548051321ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" In honor of Presdent's day, we might start thinking about ideas for ... P.S. Isn't MLK day a Federal holiday pk From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 05:12:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 13:12:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 24013 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25672 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:12:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4CL>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:07:11 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731B@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] President's day Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:07:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B3E.08E84010" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B3E.08E84010 Content-Type: text/plain Yes, and so is Columbus Day but I have to work both so they are not Nomic holidays. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 12:39 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Presdient's day In honor of Presdent's day, we might start thinking about ideas for ... P.S. Isn't MLK day a Federal holiday pk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B3E.08E84010 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Yes,=20 and so is Columbus Day but I have to work both so they are not Nomic=20 holidays.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001= =20 12:39 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Presdient's day

    In honor of Presd= ent's=20 day, we might start thinking about ideas for
    ...

    P.S.  Is= n't=20 MLK day a Federal holiday

    pk


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B3E.08E84010-- From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Feb 20 05:21:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 61701 invoked by uid 7800); 20 Feb 2001 13:21:02 -0000 Date: 20 Feb 2001 13:21:01 -0000 Message-ID: <982675262.192060794.19121.l10@yahoogroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-eGroups-Application: files From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: File - rules.html Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-----000383507900769776570046146477" -------000383507900769776570046146477 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit File : rules.html Description : The HTML Rules File Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms -------000383507900769776570046146477 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="rules.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 [Attachment content not displayed.] -------000383507900769776570046146477-- From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Feb 20 06:42:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97629 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 14:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 14:42:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.208] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2001 14:42:52 -0000 Date: 20 Feb 2001 14:42:50 -0000 Message-ID: <982680170.1509.98952.jf@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /rules.html Uploaded by : eventi@c... Description : The HTML Rules File, suitable for framing You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/files/rules.html To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, eventi@c... From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 06:43:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 14:43:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 97606 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 14:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 14:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:44:38 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01963 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:43:33 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:44:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <982675262.192060794.19121.l10@yahoogroups.com> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" This one's outdated... I've put the most recent up, and it's always available at www.scatterbrains.com/rules.html > -----Original Message----- > From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:21 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] File - rules.html > > > > > File : rules.html > Description : The HTML Rules File > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 06:46:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 14:46:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 89926 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 14:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 14:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 14:46:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02270 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:46:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:48:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000501c098f1$543d07c0$bea811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 06:51:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 14:51:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 21041 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 14:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 14:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 14:51:33 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02744 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:51:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4CQ>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:46:02 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731F@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:45:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4B.D34CC490" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4B.D34CC490 Content-Type: text/plain I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4B.D34CC490 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I=20 leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48= =20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= =20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    > >= that=20 I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my
    > > vot= e=20 counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we
    > > = would=20 have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    > >=20 Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    &g= t;=20 > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    >= =20 >
    > How come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a=20 Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely agree with t= his=20 post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful discussion.
    <= BR>I=20 lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4days=20 counted as a forfeit.



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4B.D34CC490-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 07:10:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:10:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 59490 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:10:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04632 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:10:01 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] An attempt at reconciliation Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:11:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <020e44646051321ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > I am replying without the mesage becaue i would not want to ruin > the appearance of your beautiful dialogue, but if you have come to > this much "reconciliation" it might be time to remind you that > "not illegal" and "a good idea" are two separate arguments. > > My position and why I have attempted to parse the arguments is > that an automatic Yes rule would be "not illegal" but not "a good > idea" I agree that they're two seperate issues. And my opinion is the exact opposite. "Illegal" but "A Good Idea" > The really fruitful argument on the merits (rather than the legality) of > such a measure still needs to take place. The "legal vs. illegal" argument is moot at this point, so in that sense it's not fruitful. But (speaking entirely hypothetically here :) if part of a proposal runs contrary to (part of) an existing rule, it should not be allowed to pass. A scenario: Rule 399: The sky is blue, and Paul is the one and only true Pope. Rule 405: Anyone who quotes scripture from "The C Programming Language", by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie becomes the Pope. There can only be one Pope. 399 beats 405 by rule 211. So 405 remains on the books, but has no effect. 399 is amended: "The sky is orange, and Paul is the one and only true Pope." 399 becomes 406, and consequently loses to 405, since now the "Papal Clause" has no effect. 405 should have been an amendment to 399. Granted my example is abstract, and unlikely, but I hope it illustrates the (GENERAL) problem... > I guess it "needs to" only if anyone still plans to propose such a > thing. > > Paul > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 07:11:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:11:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 80518 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:11:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04749 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:11:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:12:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0434_01C09B25.A8236100" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731F@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0434_01C09B25.A8236100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_0434_01C09B25.A8236100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February= 20,=20 2001 9:46 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    I=20 leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:4= 8=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernard= o=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    > &g= t;=20 that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my
    > &= gt;=20 vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we
    >= ;=20 > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    = >=20 > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll,=20 or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I=20 stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going to France?  A= ren't=20 you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely agre= e=20 with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful=20 discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to=20 France... No move in 4
    days counted as a=20 forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this group, send a= n=20 email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0434_01C09B25.A8236100-- From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 07:16:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:16:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 41585 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:16:44 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05378 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4C4>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:11:13 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037321@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:11:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4F.5BDB1520" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4F.5BDB1520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4F.5BDB1520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Tomorrow morning but now is close enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days counted as a forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e....





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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B4F.5BDB1520-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 07:19:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:19:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 6581 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:19:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KFJck29542 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:19:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009b01c09b50$738a3420$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037321@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:18:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0096_01C09B26.83702040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C09B26.83702040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to= wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think w= e > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll= , or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move= in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www. .com=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C09B26.83702040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Are you going to transfer your voting powe= r, or are=20 we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't understan= d=20 this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 1= 0:11=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] borin= g

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia = [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent:= =20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@enginee= redsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains= ]=20 boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001= 9:48=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= E:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Ber= nardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    >= ;=20 > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have=20 my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that tim= e, I=20 think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the= best=20 interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two = weeks=20 to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to= do=20 anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going = to=20 France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously,= =20 though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    > This is= =20 probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 games of=20 corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days coun= ted=20 as a forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this grou= p,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0096_01C09B26.83702040-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 07:19:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:19:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 5956 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05770 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:19:54 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_043E_01C09B26.DDDC2AB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037321@BATMAN> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C09B26.DDDC2AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bring back Mescal !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C09B26.DDDC2AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Bring=20 back Mescal !!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February= 20,=20 2001 10:11 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject= :=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:= 13=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, Febr= uary=20 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains= ]=20 boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001= 9:48=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= E:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Ber= nardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    >= ;=20 > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have=20 my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that tim= e, I=20 think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the= best=20 interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two = weeks=20 to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to= do=20 anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going = to=20 France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously,= =20 though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    > This is= =20 probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 games of=20 corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days coun= ted=20 as a forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this grou= p,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_043E_01C09B26.DDDC2AB0-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 07:23:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:23:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 15666 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:24:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA06118 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:22:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Vote by Proxy Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:24:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_044B_01C09B27.4BD405B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <009b01c09b50$738a3420$c6a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_044B_01C09B27.4BD405B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you're wondering (and I know you are) It's OK with me... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_044B_01C09B27.4BD405B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    In=20 case you're wondering (and I know you are) It's OK with=20 me...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001= =20 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= e:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your voting po= wer, or=20 are we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't underst= and=20 this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001= 10:11=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimigli= a [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sen= t:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogrou= ps.com
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@engin= eeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrai= ns]=20 boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventim= iglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 20= 01=20 9:48 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject= :=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick = D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkla= nd=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    &= gt;=20 > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have=20 my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that t= ime,=20 I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in= the=20 best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait t= he=20 two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) t= o be=20 able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come yo= u=20 keep going to France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    = >=20 Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    = >=20 This is probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 ga= mes=20 of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days= =20 counted as a forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    ------=_NextPart_000_044B_01C09B27.4BD405B0-- From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 07:23:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:23:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 17077 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:23:56 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA06216 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4CW>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037322@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:18:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B50.5AACD8E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B50.5AACD8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [ mailto:eventi@n... ] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [ mailto:barturo@e... ] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B50.5AACD8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days counted as a forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B50.5AACD8E0-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 07:25:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:25:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 86400 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:26:56 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KFPdk30148 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:25:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b101c09b51$4ac2a3a0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:24:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C09B27.5ACA2180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C09B27.5ACA2180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wasn't wondering. It's not all about *you*, you know. (BTW - you have a very strange notion of what constitutes "sacred" scriptur= e...) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy In case you're wondering (and I know you are) It's OK with me... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to hav= e to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have = my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I thi= nk we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest= of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a = poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No = move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www.=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C09B27.5ACA2180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I wasn't wondering.
     
    It's not all about *you*, you know.=
     
    (BTW - you have a very strange notion of w= hat=20 constitutes "sacred" scripture...)
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 1= 0:24=20 AM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Vote by=20 Proxy

    In=20 case you're wondering (and I know you are) It's OK with=20 me...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your voting = power, or=20 are we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't under= stand=20 this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 20= 01=20 10:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    S= ent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [= mailto:barturo@eng= ineeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbr= ains]=20 boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Vent= imiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, = 2001=20 9:48 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbr= ains]=20 boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote>=20 > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have= =20 my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that= =20 time, I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is cl= early=20 in the best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have = to=20 wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as= per=20 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    >= ; How=20 come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a=20 Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely ag= ree=20 with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruit= ful=20 discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by goi= ng to=20 France... No move in 4
    days counted as a=20 forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this group= ,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    ------=_NextPart_000_00AC_01C09B27.5ACA2180-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 07:28:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:28:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 72913 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:28:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:28:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KFRtk30419 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c701c09b51$9a4763c0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037322@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:27:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C09B27.AEC2B680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C09B27.AEC2B680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well? Are you going to transfer it? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to hav= e to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have = my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I thi= nk we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest= of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a = poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No = move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C09B27.AEC2B680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Well?  Are you going to transfer=20 it?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 1= 0:18=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexic= o

    Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some=20 tequila...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your voting = power, or=20 are we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't under= stand=20 this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 20= 01=20 10:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimig= lia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    S= ent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [= mailto:barturo@eng= ineeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbr= ains]=20 boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Vent= imiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, = 2001=20 9:48 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbr= ains]=20 boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote>=20 > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have= =20 my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that= =20 time, I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is cl= early=20 in the best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have = to=20 wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as= per=20 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    >= ; How=20 come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a=20 Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely ag= ree=20 with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruit= ful=20 discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by goi= ng to=20 France... No move in 4
    days counted as a=20 forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this group= ,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe fr= om this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C09B27.AEC2B680-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 07:38:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 42626 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:38:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA07734 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:38:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0459_01C09B29.673BA360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <00b101c09b51$4ac2a3a0$c6a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0459_01C09B29.673BA360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:25 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy I wasn't wondering. It's not all about *you*, you know. It's not about *you* either, that was for Bob... (BTW - you have a very strange notion of what constitutes "sacred" scripture...) I suppose you're some sort of Protestant. OK, I'll include "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup ------=_NextPart_000_0459_01C09B29.673BA360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001= =20 10:25 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= e:=20 [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy

    I wasn't wondering.
     
    It's not all about *you*, you know= . 
     
    It's=20 not about *you* either, that was for Bob...
    <= FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff> 
     (BTW - you have a very strange no= tion of=20 what constitutes "sacred" scripture...) 
     
     = I suppose=20 you're some sort of Protestant.  OK, I'll include "The C++ Programmi= ng=20 Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup
     
    ------=_NextPart_000_0459_01C09B29.673BA360-- From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 07:38:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:38:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 43760 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:38:26 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA07782 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4CY>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:32:53 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037323@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:32:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B52.61541DA0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B52.61541DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was waiting to see if Steven would put out a proposal before I left. If so I will make a decision before I go. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:27 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Well? Are you going to transfer it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [ mailto:eventi@n... ] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [ mailto:barturo@e... ] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B52.61541DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    I was waiting to see if Steven would put out a proposal before I left. If so I will make a decision before I go.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:27 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico

    Well?  Are you going to transfer it?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:18 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico

    Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  If I wrote
    > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my
    > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we
    > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going to France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in 4
    days counted as a forfeit.



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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B52.61541DA0-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 07:56:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 15:56:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 13411 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 15:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:56:39 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:14:45 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:06:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:06:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:06:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] President's day Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03731B@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0276e4514161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 8:07, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Yes, and so is Columbus Day but I have to work both so they are not > Nomic holidays. It does say federal holidays > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 12:39 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Presdient's day > > > In honor of Presdent's day, we might start thinking about ideas for > ... > > P.S. Isn't MLK day a Federal holiday > > pk > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > 000570 88:N/A=486883/?http://billing.mail.yahoo.com/ym/vorder1> Click > here! > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=486883/rand=706459243> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:00:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:00:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 21903 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:00:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:00:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:00:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:18:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:10:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:09:55 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:09:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000501c098f1$543d07c0$bea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0251c1418161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 9:48, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > If I wrote > > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to have my vote > > > counted as a yes on everything during that time, I think we would > > > have to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of > > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, > > > or a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I stayed. > > > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. > > I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France... No move in > 4 days counted as a forfeit. > I am not going to France, but I may be coming there for a few days. I am having serious trouble responding to students who tell me that they are going to New Orleans for Mardi Gras. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982680404/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 08:01:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:01:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 63449 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:01:49 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KG1lk33609 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:01:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c09b56$5437a700$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <0276e4514161421ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] President's day Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:01:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 20 Feb 01, at 8:07, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > Yes, and so is Columbus Day but I have to work both so they are not > > Nomic holidays. > > It does say federal holidays Federal in the Nomic sense, I suppose... I agree: Colon (note the proper *Spanish* name) and MLK got the shaft. From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 08:02:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:02:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 64122 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:03:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KG21k33629 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:02:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c09b56$5c451d60$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037323@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:01:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09B2C.72302CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09B2C.72302CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fair 'nuff. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico I was waiting to see if Steven would put out a proposal before I left. If= so I will make a decision before I go. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:27 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Well? Are you going to transfer it? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all going to= have to wait for you to return? You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring Now? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > If I wrote > > that I was going to France for two week and wanted to h= ave my > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that time, I= think we > > would have to do it, and it is clearly in the best inte= rest of > > Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to clos= e a poll, or > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I sta= yed. > > > How come you keep going to France? Aren't you a Nietzsch= ean? > > Seriously, though, I completely agree with this post. > > This is probably the more fruitful discussion. I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to France...= No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of = this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or c= opying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at w= ebmaster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 www.=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09B2C.72302CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Fair 'nuff.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 1= 0:32=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexic= o

    I=20 was waiting to see if Steven would put out a proposal before I left. If s= o I=20 will make a decision before I go.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:27 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico

    Well?  Are you going to transfer= =20 it?
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 20= 01=20 10:18 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 Mexico

    Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some= =20 tequila...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bern= ardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...<= /A>]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] boring

    Are you going to transfer your vot= ing=20 power, or are we all going to have to wait for you to=20 return?
     
    You're not even Mexican, I don't u= nderstand=20 this.
    ----- Original Message ----- Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.= com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20= , 2001=20 10:11 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrain= s]=20 boring

    Tomorrow morning but now is close=20 enough.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Vent= imiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    = Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yah= oogroups.com
    Subject:=20 RE: [scatterbrains] boring

    Now?
    -----Original Message-----
    From:= =20 Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo= @engineeredsecurity.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:46 AM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    I leaving for Mexico for a week.=20 (rub,rub,rub....) ;-)
    -----Original Message-----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent:= =20 Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] boring

    From: Patric= k D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > From: Paul= =20 Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > >  = If I=20 wrote
    > > that I was going to France for two week = and=20 wanted to have my
    > > vote counted as a yes on=20 everything during that time, I think we
    > > would = have=20 to do it, and it is clearly in the best interest of
    >= >=20 Scatterbrains to not have to wait the two weeks to close a = poll,=20 or
    > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anyth= ing=20 if I stayed.
    > >
    > How come you keep going t= o=20 France?  Aren't you a Nietzschean?
    >
    >=20 Seriously, though, I completely agree with this=20 post.
    >
    > This is probably the more fruitful=20 discussion.

    I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by= =20 going to France... No move in 4
    days counted as a=20 forfeit.



    To unsubscribe from this g= roup,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader = is not=20 the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are h= ereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmissio= n is=20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specifie= d=20 recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e...= om.=20





    To unsubscrib= e from=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
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    =

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

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    ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C09B2C.72302CC0-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:03:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 67586 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:04:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:13 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:13:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:13:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:12:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] An attempt at reconciliation Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <020e44646051321ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <025471321161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 10:11, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > I am replying without the mesage becaue i would not want to ruin the > > appearance of your beautiful dialogue, but if you have come to this > > much "reconciliation" it might be time to remind you that "not > > illegal" and "a good idea" are two separate arguments. > > > > My position and why I have attempted to parse the arguments is > > that an automatic Yes rule would be "not illegal" but not "a good > > idea" > > I agree that they're two seperate issues. And my opinion is the exact > opposite. "Illegal" but "A Good Idea" > > > The really fruitful argument on the merits (rather than the > > legality) of such a measure still needs to take place. > > The "legal vs. illegal" argument is moot at this point, so in that > sense it's not fruitful. But (speaking entirely hypothetically here > :) if part of a proposal runs contrary to (part of) an existing rule, > it should not be allowed to pass. > > A scenario: > > Rule 399: The sky is blue, and Paul is the one and only true Pope. > Rule 405: Anyone who quotes scripture from "The C Programming > Language", by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie becomes the > Pope. There can only be one Pope. > > 399 beats 405 by rule 211. So 405 remains on the books, but has no > effect. > > 399 is amended: "The sky is orange, and Paul is the one and only true > Pope." 399 becomes 406, and consequently loses to 405, since now the > "Papal Clause" has no effect. 405 should have been an amendment to > 399. > > Granted my example is abstract, and unlikely, but I hope it > illustrates the (GENERAL) problem... > > > I guess it "needs to" only if anyone still plans to propose such a > > thing. > > > > Paul > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > I am not looking at the rules, but isn't there a provison for specifying that a new rule takes precedent over another > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982681805/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:10:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:10:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 32491 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:11:38 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:28:40 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:20:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:20:20 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:20:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: protestants Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00b101c09b51$4ac2a3a0$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <024d24028161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 10:39, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:25 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Vote by Proxy > > > I wasn't wondering. > > It's not all about *you*, you know. > > It's not about *you* either, that was for Bob... > > (BTW - you have a very strange notion of what constitutes "sacred" > scripture...) > > I suppose you're some sort of Protestant. I think Protestants have the more strice narrow understanding of Sacred Sripture. Are we going to need laws of religous toleration here? Paul Kirkland, Baptist, Nietzsche guy, Dominican University OK, I'll include "The > C++ > Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:12:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:12:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 92658 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:12:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:30:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:22:00 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:21:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:21:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] President's day Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001001c09b56$5437a700$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <027400930161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 11:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 20 Feb 01, at 8:07, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > Yes, and so is Columbus Day but I have to work both so they are > > > not Nomic holidays. > > > > It does say federal holidays > > Federal in the Nomic sense, I suppose... > > I agree: Colon (note the proper *Spanish* name) and MLK got the shaft. > Maybe it is because he is a Protestant > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982684912/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:16:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:16:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 68783 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:16:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:34:38 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:26:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 10:26:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:26:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001a01c09b56$5c451d60$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <024413834161421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Might I suggest transfers of voting power to the lawmaker as a possibility that would have the same effect as the automatic yes without so much trouble. Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for as many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? This would eliminate the need for an automatic "yes" debate and be a clearer expression of the player's will Paul On 20 Feb 01, at 11:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Fair 'nuff. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:32 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico > > > I was waiting to see if Steven would put out a proposal before I > left. If so I will make a decision before I go. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:27 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico > > > Well? Are you going to transfer it? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:18 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico > > > Don't be jealous. I'll bring you back some tequila... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:19 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] boring > > > Are you going to transfer your voting power, or are we all > going to have to wait for you to return? > > You're not even Mexican, I don't understand this. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:11 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > Tomorrow morning but now is close enough. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 10:13 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] boring > > > Now? > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob > [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Tuesday, > February 20, 2001 9:46 AM To: > 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: > [scatterbrains] boring > > > I leaving for Mexico for a week. (rub,rub,rub....) ;-) > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:48 AM To: > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: > [scatterbrains] boring > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Paul Kirkland > > > If I wrote > > that I > was going to France for two week and wanted to have my > > > vote counted as a yes on everything during that > time, I think we > > would have to do it, and it is > clearly in the best interest of > > Scatterbrains to > not have to wait the two weeks to close a poll, or > > > a month (as per 313) to be able to do anything if I > stayed. > > > How come you keep going to France? > Aren't you a Nietzschean? > > Seriously, though, I > completely agree with this post. > > This is probably > the more fruitful discussion. > > I lost 8 games of corespondence chess by going to > France... No move in 4 days counted as a forfeit. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified > recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby > notified that any distribution or copying of this > transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us > at webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly > prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly > prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > www. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 08:17:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:17:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 7988 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:17:16 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KGHEk35368 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:17:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c09b58$7c58de00$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] An attempt at reconciliation Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:16:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > The "legal vs. illegal" argument is moot at this point, so in that sense > it's not fruitful. But (speaking entirely hypothetically here :) if part of > a proposal runs contrary to (part of) an existing rule, it should not be > allowed to pass. > > A scenario: > > Rule 399: The sky is blue, and Paul is the one and only true Pope. > Rule 405: Anyone who quotes scripture from "The C Programming Language", by > Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie becomes the Pope. There can only > be one Pope. > > 399 beats 405 by rule 211. So 405 remains on the books, but has no effect. > > 399 is amended: "The sky is orange, and Paul is the one and only true Pope." > 399 becomes 406, and consequently loses to 405, since now the "Papal Clause" > has no effect. > 405 should have been an amendment to 399. > > Granted my example is abstract, and unlikely, but I hope it illustrates the > (GENERAL) problem... > (I'm grading papers, so I'm in that sort of loopy/lazy mood, but I'll do the best I can to structure a coherent reply) This is my big problem with the rules as written. They're incoherent on this type of issue. On the one hand, it seems that implicit amendments are possible (the law only prohibits implicitly amending immutable rules), and on the other hand, it imposes this kind of plodding and, well, stupid* number-order rule. While it does make sense that immutable rules trump mutable rules, it doesn't seem to be necessary to have a provision whereby earlier rules automatically cancel the later ones. Now, fair enough, that's how it's written, and if I don't like it, change it. Of course. But, as written, the rules *also* allow for implicit amendment. So which principle do we choose? Can't somebody argue that 405 (in your example) implicitly amends 399, and thus there is no conflict? The reason why I'm bringing this up is *not* to start another barn-burner, which I imagine noone wants, but to just throw this out there. You see, if you go with the more narrow reading, that means that all amendments must be explicit, for all intents and purposes. Thus, that will split many laws up into two laws, meaning you must first pass one part (whether it be the amendment or the law), and then the second part. That means a *huge* lag time to get your law enacted. In your example this is not the case, since 405 could easily be read as a straight amendment of 399(and only needed to be declared as such). But consider this. Suppose that 405 was something like "all offices must be elected". (Excluding for now the consideration of whether this would be retroactive). This would conflict with 399, and, in e's reading, render 405 null and void for consideration of the papal office. Then the author would have to wait a full round, and then pass 411(depending, of course on # of players) amending 399 so that it was in harmony with 405. * By stupid, I do not mean to insult anyone. If someone likes this law, I hope that they aren't offended. I apologize in advance. I was using the word in Ortega's sense (pitfall #472 of writing a dissertation), by which he usually means a provision or action that excludes the use of the reasoning faculty in man. It is my contention that this part of the law does just that, if read too narrowly, since it does not allow for reasonable dialogue across the laws. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 08:38:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:38:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 30330 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:38:07 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA14477 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:38:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] President's day Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <027400930161421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > It does say federal holidays > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > Federal in the Nomic sense, I suppose... > > > > I agree: Colon (note the proper *Spanish* name) and MLK got the shaft. > > > Maybe it is because he is a Protestant Small history lesson... Proposal 308's being debated, I jokingly said "F- Columbus"; Bob never gets the day off, so he F'd MLK day(the day, not the person) too. I'm sorry that I joked about Pat being a 'Protestant', perhaps I should have called him a 'protestant' (small p) Since he 'protested'. BEGIN JOKE Seriously, some of my best friends are Protestants. END JOKE From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 08:47:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:47:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 28700 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:47:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA15695 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:47:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:49:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <024d24028161421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > (BTW - you have a very strange notion of what constitutes "sacred" > > scripture...) > > > > I suppose you're some sort of Protestant. > I think Protestants have the more strice narrow understanding of > Sacred Sripture. > Are we going to need laws of religous toleration here? > > Paul Kirkland, Baptist, Nietzsche guy, > Dominican University My reference was only to a "different" scripture, not a different interpretation of the same. Like KJV vs. NIB. I also didn't imply that Stroustrup takes a looser interpretation of matters than "K&R". And finally, I didn't realize I would be offending anyone with something I saw as a joke. Please accept my apologies. From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:52:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:52:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 72232 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:52:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:52:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:10:22 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:02:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:02:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:01:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] President's day Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <027400930161421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0247b2210171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 11:39, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > It does say federal holidays > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:01, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Federal in the Nomic sense, I suppose... > > > > > > I agree: Colon (note the proper *Spanish* name) and MLK got the > > > shaft. > > > > > Maybe it is because he is a Protestant > > Small history lesson... Proposal 308's being debated, I jokingly said > "F- Columbus"; Bob never gets the day off, so he F'd MLK day(the day, > not the person) too. > > I'm sorry that I joked about Pat being a 'Protestant', perhaps I > should have called him a 'protestant' (small p) Since he 'protested'. > BEGIN JOKE Seriously, some of my best friends are Protestants. END > JOKE > > Thank you for clarigying your sarcasm, but I was not terribly offended It is actually a nice balance of political correctness to disclude both Columbus Day (which some want eliminate) and MLK day. BEGIN JOKE Paul Kirkland, Baptist,NIETZSCHE guy DOMINICAN University END JOKE (By the way we don't need to keep this up, it is much more fun to misinterpret jokes as insults; it also permits the reverse) > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982687110/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 08:54:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:54:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 48664 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:54:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:12:21 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:04:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:03:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:03:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <024d24028161421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0263a2112171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) On 20 Feb 01, at 11:49, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > (BTW - you have a very strange notion of what constitutes > > > "sacred" > > > scripture...) > > > > > > I suppose you're some sort of Protestant. > > I think Protestants have the more strice narrow understanding of > > Sacred Sripture. Are we going to need laws of religous toleration > > here? > > > > Paul Kirkland, Baptist, Nietzsche guy, > > Dominican University > > My reference was only to a "different" scripture, not a different > interpretation of the same. Like KJV vs. NIB. I also didn't imply > that Stroustrup takes a looser interpretation of matters than "K&R". > > And finally, I didn't realize I would be offending anyone with > something I saw as a joke. > > Please accept my apologies. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982687676/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 08:59:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 16:59:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 92760 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 16:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:59:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16944 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:59:01 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:00:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <0263a2112171421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who doesn't know the K&R Bible. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:12:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:12:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 99408 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:12:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:30:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:22:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:21:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:21:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0263a2112171421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <025081430171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:21:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:21:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 85950 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:20:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:20:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:20:38 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:38:41 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:30:32 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:30:16 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:30:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: <025081430171421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <025754138171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope We need a little infallability around here, all this interpretation of the law by everyone is just getting messy. The priesthood of all believers is a crock. E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 09:22:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:22:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 25053 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:21:04 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KHKwk41015 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:21:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c09b61$66637160$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <024413834161421ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:20:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for as > many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > Do you mean is it legal? Sure, why not? From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 09:26:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:26:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 50253 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:26:46 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KHPek41636 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:25:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c09b62$0c249c00$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <025754138171421ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] protestants Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:24:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I do believe that the chemical by-products from all those ham products you've evidently been consuming has gone to your head. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > We need a little infallability around here, all this interpretation of the > law by everyone is just getting messy. > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by > > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > > > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:34:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:34:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 56223 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:31:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:31:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:31:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:49:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:41:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:40:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:40:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002201c09b61$66637160$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <024fb1049171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for as > > many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > Sure, why not? > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need for any automatic voting scheme. Is also less stupid (in the Ortega sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of automatic penalties. Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules Paul baptist, Nietzsche guy future pope > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689728/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 09:35:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:35:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 81758 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:35:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:35:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:36:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA21209 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:35:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants & Floggin a dead horse Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:37:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <025754138171421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Wow- You guys aren't known for having a sense of humor. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > We need a little infallability around here, all this > interpretation of the > law by everyone is just getting messy. > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by > > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > > > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:36:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:36:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 32839 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:36:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:36:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:36:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:54:07 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:45:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:45:30 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:45:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: gods of the city Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c09b62$0c249c00$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <027430754171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:24, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I do believe that the chemical by-products from all those ham products > you've evidently been consuming has gone to your head. Actually I have been grading papers too (i guess on a similar topic) But, we need a good civil religion paul baptist, Nietzsche guy future pope ham-eater (after I renounced my Judaism) P.S. On comedy and religion Cf. Clouds and TSZ IV ----- Original > Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 > PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > > We need a little infallability around here, all this interpretation > > of the law by everyone is just getting messy. The priesthood of all > > believers is a crock. E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, > > > > but by accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention > > > > someone who doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > > > > here for more details > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- -_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689965/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:38:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:38:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1967 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:38:02 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:56:07 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:47:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:47:40 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:47:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants & Floggin a dead horse Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <025754138171421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <026cc0756171421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:37, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Wow- You guys aren't known for having a sense of humor. it's all aristophanes fault > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > > We need a little infallability around here, all this > > interpretation of the > > law by everyone is just getting messy. > > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, > > > > but by accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention > > > > someone who doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > > > > here for more details > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- -_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982690549/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 09:39:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 91135 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:39:07 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KHd5k43174 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:39:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c09b63$ec2e51a0$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <024fb1049171421ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:38:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for as > > > many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > > > Sure, why not? > > > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need > for any automatic voting scheme. It depends - I think that in Fritz's case, the answer is no. (To be honest, I don't know if Fritz likes the idea of automatic votes) But, the problem of fillibusters remains. If it depends upon the person to transfer his vote, what is to be done in the case of the person who refuses? > Is also less stupid (in the Ortega > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) > I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I > would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of > automatic penalties. > Hmmm. > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules > > Paul > baptist, > Nietzsche guy > future pope > Where did the baptist come from? From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 09:43:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:43:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 94794 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:43:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:43:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:43:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KHh8k43586 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:43:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901c09b64$7d1d9720$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] changing subject lines is way too anal for me Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:42:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > Wow- You guys aren't known for having a sense of humor. > Despite the incongruity of his practice of replying to his own posts, I can assure you, Eug, that there is only one Paul. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > > We need a little infallability around here, all this > > interpretation of the > > law by everyone is just getting messy. > > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending you, but by > > > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > > > > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 09:47:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:47:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 15576 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:47:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:47:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:47:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22573 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:47:29 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexican can-o-worms Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:48:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <024fb1049171421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Don't get me started... I'm really *not* opening the debate with this, but I've promised a position statement on the previous dispute, and this is covered in it. For now, individual votes can be done by proxy, but not open-ended blocks, since 305 requires that "Every voter participate in *every* vote on rule-changes" (my emphasis) Pedantic, but that's the only way I can see such a thing being legal. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:41 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for as > > > many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > > > Sure, why not? > > > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need > for any automatic voting scheme. Is also less stupid (in the Ortega > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) > I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I > would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of > automatic penalties. > > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules > > Paul > baptist, > Nietzsche guy > future pope > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689728/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:47:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 16824 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:49:03 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:06:03 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:57:56 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 11:57:38 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:57:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002201c09b63$ec2e51a0$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <025b70306181421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:38, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for > > > > as many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > > > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > > > > > Sure, why not? > > > > > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need > > for any automatic voting scheme. > > It depends - I think that in Fritz's case, the answer is no. (To be > honest, I don't know if Fritz likes the idea of automatic votes) But, > the problem of fillibusters remains. If it depends upon the person to > transfer his vote, what is to be done in the case of the person who > refuses? > That's why we need a civil religion. If people believed that Zeus would strike down their plane with a lightning bolt if they went on vacation without tranfering voting power, we wouldn't need a rule. Seriously, Well, Bob made the time limit 25 damn days. A shorter time limit would encourage transfers in case of a vacation and prohibit filibustering. > > Is also less stupid (in the Ortega > > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) > > I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I > > would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic > > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of > > automatic penalties. > > > Hmmm. > > > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules!!!! > > > > Paul > > baptist, > > Nietzsche guy > > future pope > > > Where did the baptist come from? > Lawndale Baptist Church, Philadelphia, PA (actually Texas, I think) > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982690748/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 09:49:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:49:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 14821 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:49:49 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22798 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:49:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: That's because you're not looking at a day's worth of messages every night when you get home. Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:51:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <003901c09b64$7d1d9720$cba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" AHA! What are you trying to cover up? We havn't actually seen this so-called Paul... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:42 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] changing subject lines is way too anal for > me > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Wow- You guys aren't known for having a sense of humor. > > > > Despite the incongruity of his practice of replying to his own > posts, I can > assure you, Eug, that there is only one Paul. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > > > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > > > We need a little infallability around here, all this > > > interpretation of the > > > law by everyone is just getting messy. > > > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > > > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > > > > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > > > > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending > you, but by > > > > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone who > > > > > doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > > > for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 09:54:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:54:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 52034 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:55:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:12:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 12:04:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 12:04:06 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:04:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Point transfer Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <003901c09b64$7d1d9720$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <024df3012181421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > AHA! What are you trying to cover up? We havn't actually seen this > so-called Paul... Just kidding. hey, I just needed to add something > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:42 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] changing subject lines is way too anal > > for me > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > Wow- You guys aren't known for having a sense of humor. > > > > > > > Despite the incongruity of his practice of replying to his own > > posts, I can > > assure you, Eug, that there is only one Paul. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:30 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 11:21, Paul Kirkland wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am fully prepared to accept the office of Pope > > > > We need a little infallability around here, all this > > > > interpretation of the > > > > law by everyone is just getting messy. > > > > The priesthood of all believers is a crock. > > > > E has convinced me, I am ready to convert!! > > > > > > > > Ban ML and MLK from Nomic!! > > > > > > > > If you don't think I am joking now ..... > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:00, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Wheew, I was getting a little worried. Not at offending > > you, but by > > > > > > accidentally naming a Baptist Pope. Not to mention someone > > > > > > who doesn't know the K&R Bible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:04 PM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] protestants > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was kidding. relax (read signature lines more > > > > > > > carefully) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > > > > > > here for more details > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982688346/ > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------ -_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click > > > > here for more details > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689157/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -----_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982691390/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From barturo@e... Tue Feb 20 09:58:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:58:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 97402 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:58:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:58:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23676 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4DD>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:52:54 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037325@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexico Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:52:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09B65.ECD99AE0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B65.ECD99AE0 Content-Type: text/plain -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:58 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico On 20 Feb 01, at 12:38, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for > > > > as many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > > > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > > > > > Sure, why not? > > > > > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need > > for any automatic voting scheme. > > It depends - I think that in Fritz's case, the answer is no. (To be > honest, I don't know if Fritz likes the idea of automatic votes) But, > the problem of fillibusters remains. If it depends upon the person to > transfer his vote, what is to be done in the case of the person who > refuses? > That's why we need a civil religion. If people believed that Zeus would strike down their plane with a lightning bolt if they went on vacation without tranfering voting power, we wouldn't need a rule. You had to go there I get on a plane in less than 24 hours and it is supposed to rain here tomorrow morning. Seriously, Well, Bob made the time limit 25 damn days. A shorter time limit would encourage transfers in case of a vacation and prohibit filibustering. 25 days is too long you are right, but I took that from one of my earlier proposals. > > Is also less stupid (in the Ortega > > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) > > I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I > > would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic > > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of > > automatic penalties. > > > Hmmm. > > > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules!!!! > > > > Paul > > baptist, > > Nietzsche guy > > future pope > > > Where did the baptist come from? > Lawndale Baptist Church, Philadelphia, PA (actually Texas, I think) > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982690748/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B65.ECD99AE0 Content-Type: text/html
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:58 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico

    On 20 Feb 01, at 12:38, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:

    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for
    > > > > as many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto?
    > > > >
    > > > Do you mean is it legal?
    > > >
    > > > Sure, why not?
    > > >
    > > yes, that is what I mean.  Does not this possiblity replace the need
    > > for any automatic voting scheme.
    >
    > It depends - I think that in Fritz's case, the answer is no.  (To be
    > honest, I don't know if Fritz likes the idea of automatic votes)  But,
    > the problem of fillibusters remains.  If it depends upon the person to
    > transfer his vote, what is to be done in the case of the person who
    > refuses?
    >
    That's why we need a civil religion.  If people believed that Zeus
    would strike down their plane with a lightning bolt if they went on
    vacation without tranfering voting power, we wouldn't need a rule.
    You had to go there I get on a plane in less than 24 hours and it is supposed to rain here tomorrow morning. 

    Seriously,
    Well, Bob made the time limit 25 damn days.  A shorter time limit
    would encourage transfers in case of a vacation and prohibit
    filibustering.  
    25 days is too long you are right, but I took that from one of my earlier proposals. 

    > > Is also less stupid (in the Ortega
    > > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended))
    > > I agree with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I
    > > would resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic
    > > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of
    > > automatic penalties.
    > >
    > Hmmm.
    >
    > > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules!!!!
    > >

    > > Paul
    > > baptist,
    > > Nietzsche guy
    > > future pope
    > >
    > Where did the baptist come from?
    >
    Lawndale Baptist Church, Philadelphia, PA
    (actually Texas, I think)


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    > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for
    > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982690748/
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_
    > ->
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >




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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09B65.ECD99AE0-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 09:58:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 17:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 65234 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:58:44 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KHwgk45301 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:58:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501c09b66$a9f5c680$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexican can-o-worms Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:57:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > Don't get me started... I'm really *not* opening the debate with this, but > I've promised a position statement on the previous dispute, and this is > covered in it. For now, individual votes can be done by proxy, but not > open-ended blocks, since 305 requires that "Every voter participate in > *every* vote on rule-changes" (my emphasis) Pedantic, but that's the only > way I can see such a thing being legal. > Fine, once you've proved that it's illegal, then the practice will be stopped. Until then, I see no reason to rule it out. In these kinds of things, the burden of proof ought to be on the prosecution. Otherwise, the mere suggestion of possible illegality could quite easily prohibit fun and interesting and useful activity. p. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 10:01:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 18:01:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 49030 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 18:01:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 18:01:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:01:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23979 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:01:10 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexican can-o-worms Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:02:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <005501c09b66$a9f5c680$cba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Otherwise, the mere suggestion of possible illegality could quite easily > prohibit fun and interesting and useful activity. > > p. But what an awesome tool it is... From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 10:05:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 18:05:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 17502 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 18:05:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 18:05:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:06:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KI5Lk46007 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:05:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006901c09b67$9789c860$cba811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexican can-o-worms Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:04:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > Otherwise, the mere suggestion of possible illegality could quite easily > > prohibit fun and interesting and useful activity. > > > > p. > > But what an awesome tool it is... > TYRANNY! From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 11:18:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 19:18:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 64973 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 19:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:18:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:36:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 13:28:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 13:27:48 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:27:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Mexican can-o-worms /back from France Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <024fb1049171421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <024ef1236191421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 12:48, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Don't get me started... I'm really *not* opening the debate with this, > but I've promised a position statement on the previous dispute, and > this is covered in it. For now, individual votes can be done by > proxy, but not open-ended blocks, since 305 requires that "Every voter > participate in *every* vote on rule-changes" (my emphasis) Pedantic, > but that's the only way I can see such a thing being legal. You are importing "seperately" into "every vote." There is nothing currently in the rules that would prohibit me from saying, (hypothetically) Count my vote as a yes on all proposals until further notice. I will have acted. Now who is reading into the rules? why does "participate" mean particpate with full knowledge? If you want a rule to change this, write it. Your "legal theory," eugene is become harder and harder to discern. p > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 12:41 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Mexico > > > > > > On 20 Feb 01, at 12:20, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > Question: Is a transfer of vote to "the current rule author" for > > > > as many turns as one might miss on a trip to oh, say, Taranto? > > > > > > > Do you mean is it legal? > > > > > > Sure, why not? > > > > > yes, that is what I mean. Does not this possiblity replace the need > > for any automatic voting scheme. Is also less stupid (in the Ortega > > sense) Hereinafter refered to as StupidO (pun not intended)) I agree > > with your earlier statement on StupidO laws; that is why I would > > resist an automatic Yes rule, and why I don't like automatic > > penalties, but you know what would be necessary to get rid of > > automatic penalties. > > > > Equity in Nomic, no more stupidO rules > > > > Paul > > baptist, > > Nietzsche guy > > future pope > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here > > > for more details > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982689728/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982691254/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 11:30:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 19:30:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 2958 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 19:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:30:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KJUok54901 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:30:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009801c09b73$8904a060$cba811d0@computer> To: Subject: I am a financial genius!!! Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:30:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0095_01C09B49.9EE06D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C09B49.9EE06D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the Bill Gates stock pick contest (best picks win $5,000), I am ranked 4= 86. Not so great, huh. However, consider the fact that there are 96,781 p= eople participating. That puts me in the top .5%. And my only losing stoc= k (so far) is gonna turn around, baby. Just thought you'd all like to know. And now back to our regularly scheduled program. ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C09B49.9EE06D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    In the Bill Gates stock pick contest (best= picks=20 win $5,000), I am ranked 486.  Not so great, huh.  However,= =20 consider the fact that there are 96,781 people participating.  Th= at=20 puts me in the top .5%.  And my only losing stock (so far) is gon= na=20 turn around, baby.
     
    Just thought you'd all like to know.
     
    And now back to our regularly scheduled=20 program.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C09B49.9EE06D80-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 20 11:34:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 19:34:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 13595 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 19:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:34:45 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-18.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.203]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1KJYgk55251 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:34:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a601c09b74$1377bde0$cba811d0@computer> To: References: <009801c09b73$8904a060$cba811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] I am a financial genius!!! Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:33:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C09B4A.29538B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C09B4A.29538B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BTW- Bill Gates is currently ranked 52,649. Bwahahaha! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] I am a financial genius!!! In the Bill Gates stock pick contest (best picks win $5,000), I am ranked= 486. Not so great, huh. However, consider the fact that there are 96,781= people participating. That puts me in the top .5%. And my only losing st= ock (so far) is gonna turn around, baby. =20=20=20 Just thought you'd all like to know. And now back to our regularly scheduled program. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 www.=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C09B4A.29538B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    BTW- Bill Gates is currently ranked=20 52,649.
     
    Bwahahaha!
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Pa= trick D.=20 Bernardo
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 2= :30=20 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] I am a fi= nancial=20 genius!!!

    In the Bill Gates stock pick contest (be= st picks=20 win $5,000), I am ranked 486.  Not so great, huh.  However= ,=20 consider the fact that there are 96,781 people participating.  = That=20 puts me in the top .5%.  And my only losing stock (so far) is g= onna=20 turn around, baby.
     
    Just thought you'd all like to know.
     
    And now back to our regularly scheduled= =20 program.


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    ------=_NextPart_000_00A3_01C09B4A.29538B00-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 12:10:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 20:10:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14512 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 20:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:10:48 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA07679 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:10:47 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Reconciliation? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:12:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001d01c09b58$7c58de00$cba811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Granted my example is abstract, and unlikely, but I hope it illustrates the > > (GENERAL) problem... > > > (I'm grading papers, so I'm in that sort of loopy/lazy mood, but > I'll do the > best I can to structure a coherent reply) > > This is my big problem with the rules as written. They're incoherent on > this type of issue. On the one hand, it seems that implicit > amendments are > possible (the law only prohibits implicitly amending immutable rules), and > on the other hand, it imposes this kind of plodding and, well, stupid* > number-order rule. While it does make sense that immutable rules trump > mutable rules, it doesn't seem to be necessary to have a provision whereby > earlier rules automatically cancel the later ones. Now, fair > enough, that's > how it's written, and if I don't like it, change it. Of course. Agreed. The only possible reason I can see for the old rules trump to the new, is for protection against this very case. It does serve to limit what you can do in the creation of a new law. It sorta forces a distinction between an amendment and rule creation. As to the original 29 rules being "incoherent", I wonder if that's intended to give us something to do? What fun would it be if the rules were perfect, or for that matter spelled out what "participate" means ;) The most interresting part of the game for me is collaborating to create the "perfect" ruleset. > > But, as written, the rules *also* allow for implicit amendment. So which > principle do we choose? Can't somebody argue that 405 (in your example) > implicitly amends 399, and thus there is no conflict? I missed that, where? 211 says you can explicitly give preference to your own proposal, but how could you do so implicitly. > > The reason why I'm bringing this up is *not* to start another barn-burner, > which I imagine noone wants, but to just throw this out there. > > You see, if you go with the more narrow reading, that means that all > amendments must be explicit, for all intents and purposes. Thus, > that will > split many laws up into two laws, meaning you must first pass one part > (whether it be the amendment or the law), and then the second part. That > means a *huge* lag time to get your law enacted. > > In your example this is not the case, since 405 could easily be read as a > straight amendment of 399(and only needed to be declared as such). But > consider this. Suppose that 405 was something like "all offices must be > elected". (Excluding for now the consideration of whether this would be > retroactive). This would conflict with 399, and, in e's reading, > render 405 > null and void for consideration of the papal office. Then the > author would > have to wait a full round, and then pass 411(depending, of course on # of > players) amending 399 so that it was in harmony with 405. It does slow down the trivial case, but what's to stop someone from passing something that alters too many existing rules. I would hate to have to read the rules in order only to see that rule 301 is partially nullified by 350, which is amended by 399, which is repealed by part of 405... That is the case with my early bit for time limits; it effected too many other rules. Granted, the arbitrary numbering scheme is a strictly mechanical problem, but I do think this should be otherwise addressed. I overlooked 211 for quite a while now, or perhaps ignored it because it seemed too easy. We could for example, write 325: "These are the federally recognized holidays: ... This Rule takes precedence over all other rules in this matter." I suppose (hesitantly) that "The Steven Revision" could have riden along with 313, if it specified that it took precedence over that part of 305 which (might possibly be seen by some irrational players to) requires the participation of each player. From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 13:10:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 21:10:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 11354 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 21:10:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 21:10:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 22:11:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:28:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 15:20:50 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 15:20:33 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:20:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d01c09b58$7c58de00$cba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 15:12, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > Granted my example is abstract, and unlikely, but I hope it > > > illustrates > the > > > (GENERAL) problem... > > > > > (I'm grading papers, so I'm in that sort of loopy/lazy mood, but > > I'll do the best I can to structure a coherent reply) > > > > This is my big problem with the rules as written. They're > > incoherent on this type of issue. On the one hand, it seems that > > implicit amendments are possible (the law only prohibits implicitly > > amending immutable rules), and on the other hand, it imposes this > > kind of plodding and, well, stupid* number-order rule. While it > > does make sense that immutable rules trump mutable rules, it doesn't > > seem to be necessary to have a provision whereby earlier rules > > automatically cancel the later ones. Now, fair enough, that's how > > it's written, and if I don't like it, change it. Of course. > > Agreed. The only possible reason I can see for the old rules trump to > the new, is for protection against this very case. It does serve to > limit what you can do in the creation of a new law. It sorta forces a > distinction between an amendment and rule creation. As to the original > 29 rules being "incoherent", I wonder if that's intended to give us > something to do? What fun would it be if the rules were perfect, or > for that matter spelled out what "participate" means ;) The most > interresting part of the game for me is collaborating to create the "perfect" ruleset. Unless....the philosophers rule as kings or those now called kings genuinely and adequately philosophize.... there is no rest from ills for the cities.... of course, making better laws in our city in bytes is the fun and interesting part. Bur, of course establishing a "perfect set" of rules would itself be antithetical to the purposes of engaging in this activity of playing the game, making rules. The pefect set of rules for making rules is a paradox. Unless there was some extra-rule-making activity in Nomic other than theoretical discussion. > > > > > But, as written, the rules *also* allow for implicit amendment. So > > which principle do we choose? Can't somebody argue that 405 (in > > your example) implicitly amends 399, and thus there is no conflict? > > I missed that, where? 211 says you can explicitly give preference to > your own proposal, but how could you do so implicitly. > > > > > The reason why I'm bringing this up is *not* to start another > > barn-burner, which I imagine noone wants, but to just throw this out > > there. > > > > You see, if you go with the more narrow reading, that means that all > > amendments must be explicit, for all intents and purposes. Thus, > > that will split many laws up into two laws, meaning you must first > > pass one part (whether it be the amendment or the law), and then the > > second part. That means a *huge* lag time to get your law enacted. > > > > In your example this is not the case, since 405 could easily be read > > as a straight amendment of 399(and only needed to be declared as > > such). But consider this. Suppose that 405 was something like "all > > offices must be elected". (Excluding for now the consideration of > > whether this would be retroactive). This would conflict with 399, > > and, in e's reading, render 405 null and void for consideration of > > the papal office. Then the author would have to wait a full round, > > and then pass 411(depending, of course on # of players) amending 399 > > so that it was in harmony with 405. > > It does slow down the trivial case, but what's to stop someone from > passing something that alters too many existing rules. I would hate > to have to read the rules in order only to see that rule 301 is > partially nullified by 350, which is amended by 399, which is repealed > by part of 405... That is the case with my early bit for time limits; > it effected too many other rules. Granted, the arbitrary numbering > scheme is a strictly mechanical problem, but I do think this should be > otherwise addressed. > > I overlooked 211 for quite a while now, or perhaps ignored it because > it seemed too easy. We could for example, write 325: "These are the > federally recognized holidays: ... This Rule takes precedence over all > other rules in this matter." > > I suppose (hesitantly) that "The Steven Revision" could have riden > along with 313, if it specified that it took precedence over that part > of 305 which (might possibly be seen by some irrational players to) > requires the participation of each player. > As it stands the proposal has to specify any rules over which it would take precednce. right? Why is that really so complicated. The obvious reason seems to be clarity and smoothness of operation. If someone "accidentally" wrote a law in conflict with another without meaning to revise it (e.g., one interpretation of the Steven amendment) the earlier law would take precedence and the new rule take precdence. This prevents laws from being changed without anyone intending to do so. Of course, in the game (at least under the original rules) the only actions are making rules. If earlier rules did not take precedence, the rules would have no meaning. I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over which they take precedence. . I could write a law that said all players must acknowledge a proposal by replying at least once to its initial form rule 511. Polls shall not be opened on a final proposal until a reply is received. and someone were to write rule 519 Debate may be ended and a poll immediately established by a majority of players stating that they want to debate to be close by posting a message with the subject heading close debate. the author of 519 could include that this takes precedence over 511 or not. If not, 211 says that the debate would not be closed if one player had not yet responded even if all and the poll could not be opened. If it expressly took precedence, the poll could be opened. But, 519 does not amend 510 it just could trump it in a particular circumstance. With 211, it is up to the author to decide. Without 211, mayhem. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982699851/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 14:25:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_3); 20 Feb 2001 22:25:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 58055 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 22:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 22:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 22:25:23 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA20931 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:25:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:26:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Bur, of course establishing a "perfect set" of rules would itself be > antithetical to the purposes of engaging in this activity of playing > the game, making rules. The pefect set of rules for making rules is > a paradox. Unless there was some extra-rule-making activity in > Nomic other than theoretical discussion. I should have stressed that the fun is on the doing... But yes, point taken. > > I overlooked 211 for quite a while now, or perhaps ignored it because > > it seemed too easy. We could for example, write 325: "These are the > > federally recognized holidays: ... This Rule takes precedence over all > > other rules in this matter." > > > > > As it stands the proposal has to specify any rules over which it > would take precednce. right? Why is that really so complicated. > The obvious reason seems to be clarity and smoothness of > operation. If someone "accidentally" wrote a law in conflict with > another without meaning to revise it (e.g., one interpretation of the > Steven amendment) the earlier law would take precedence and the > new rule take precdence. This prevents laws from being changed > without anyone intending to do so. > Of course, in the game (at least under the original rules) the only > actions are making rules. If earlier rules did not take precedence, > the rules would have no meaning. > > I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate > proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over > which they take precedence. It should be used in moderation, though. It would clearly be better not to have a whole lot of stale rules around. From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 15:42:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Feb 2001 23:42:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 70041 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 23:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 23:23:26 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:41:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 17:33:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 17:33:19 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:33:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0282b2841231421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 17:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Bur, of course establishing a "perfect set" of rules would itself be > > antithetical to the purposes of engaging in this activity of playing > > the game, making rules. The pefect set of rules for making rules is > > a paradox. Unless there was some extra-rule-making activity in > > Nomic other than theoretical discussion. > > I should have stressed that the fun is on the doing... But yes, point > taken. > > > > > I overlooked 211 for quite a while now, or perhaps ignored it > > > because it seemed too easy. We could for example, write 325: > > > "These are the federally recognized holidays: ... This Rule takes > > > precedence over all other rules in this matter." > > > > > > > > As it stands the proposal has to specify any rules over which it > > would take precednce. right? Why is that really so complicated. > > The obvious reason seems to be clarity and smoothness of operation. > > If someone "accidentally" wrote a law in conflict with another > > without meaning to revise it (e.g., one interpretation of the Steven > > amendment) the earlier law would take precedence and the new rule > > take precdence. This prevents laws from being changed without > > anyone intending to do so. Of course, in the game (at least under > > the original rules) the only actions are making rules. If earlier > > rules did not take precedence, the rules would have no meaning. > > > > I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate > > proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over > > which they take precedence. > > It should be used in moderation, though. It would clearly be better > not to have a whole lot of stale rules around. > Yes, and out founding father's (Suber) reveals his logic again. The 25 immutable laws limit would discourage stale laws. But, in my deleted example there would be no stale law, but two different provisions regarding calling a vote that would both be effective in different cases. Only in the case of a CIRCUMSTANCE of conflict would one need to refer to a "precedence" clause. p > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/0/_/_/_/982707941/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 20 15:45:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Feb 2001 23:45:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 77414 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:26:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Feb 2001 23:26:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 23:26:25 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:44:26 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 17:36:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Feb 01 17:36:18 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:36:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: grinding halt Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02a0b2644231421ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Are we going to test out the time limits or what? There is not yet a proposal and it seems that from the Nomic perspective, Bob is already in Mexico without transfering his voting power. I believe we established that transfering (at least one) vote is permissable. From eventi@w... Tue Feb 20 16:02:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 00:02:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 77129 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 00:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:00:30 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1L0vJB26001 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:57:19 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA03930; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:00:29 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] grinding halt In-Reply-To: 44231421 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1442@w...> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:00:29 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... It stands at 25 days, so we may have to wait. We haven't been turning them around that quickly anyway. Then again, BA's leaving tomorrow AM, so he may smack SA in the head tonight, and choose a proxy by morning. Even then, he may not be able to post it to the list. ------ Subject:[scatterbrains] grinding halt Are we going to test out the time limits or what? There is not yet a proposal and it seems that from the Nomic perspective, Bob is already in Mexico without transfering his voting power. I believe we established that transfering (at least one) vote is permissable. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From eventi@n... Tue Feb 20 22:47:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 06:47:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 36154 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 06:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 06:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 06:47:03 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA17805 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:47:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008901c09bd2$27414400$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> <0282b2841231421ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:47:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate > > > proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over > > > which they take precedence. > > > > It should be used in moderation, though. It would clearly be better > > not to have a whole lot of stale rules around. > > > Yes, and out founding father's (Suber) reveals his logic again. The > 25 immutable laws limit would discourage stale laws. > > But, in my deleted example there would be no stale law, but two > different provisions regarding calling a vote that would both be > effective in different cases. Only in the case of a CIRCUMSTANCE > of conflict would one need to refer to a "precedence" clause. > p Once again we're in almost perfect agreement (scary!) But we should say that such a pair of laws should be avoided... It doesn't make sense to call in the judge each time, if the conflict can be avoided. I was starting to think you were Pat's evil side, but now I think you're the side of Pat that can admit to agreeing with me. I still think you're Pat, though. In all seriousness. I've got a co-worker who's been hesitant to join our little game, and I thought of a perfect plan. He can join, I get ten points, and he can immediately tranfer all his votes to me. Then he can go about his futile avoidance of this regime, at least until we invade Queens. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 05:32:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 13:32:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 81286 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 13:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:32:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LDWGk07750 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:32:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000601c09c0a$9b1dc780$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> <0282b2841231421ISWEBNT@d...> <008901c09bd2$27414400$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:31:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > In all seriousness. I've got a co-worker who's been hesitant to join our > little game, and I thought of a perfect plan. He can join, I get ten > points, and he can immediately tranfer all his votes to me. Then he can go > about his futile avoidance of this regime, at least until we invade Queens. You'd only get 5 points for his joining. Otherwise, it's not illegal. Just a loophole. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 05:36:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 13:36:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 89698 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:36:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 13:36:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:36:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LDZxk07975 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:36:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c09c0b$203b3ba0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <026645628211421ISWEBNT@d...> <0282b2841231421ISWEBNT@d...> <008901c09bd2$27414400$126d1d40@v...> <000601c09c0a$9b1dc780$c6a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:35:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > In all seriousness. I've got a co-worker who's been hesitant to join our > > little game, and I thought of a perfect plan. He can join, I get ten > > points, and he can immediately tranfer all his votes to me. Then he can > go > > about his futile avoidance of this regime, at least until we invade > Queens. > > You'd only get 5 points for his joining. > > Otherwise, it's not illegal. Just a loophole. > > (Aaargh! It's the morning, I guess.) And I meant to add that you would be *extremely* unpopular if you did something like that. It would be tough to get other votes on your props, and Queens's vote against laws that pass would accrue points to Queens's account, not yours. Overall, I'd think that it'd work against you more than for you. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 06:52:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 14:52:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 47223 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 14:52:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 14:52:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 14:52:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LEqLk14914 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:52:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004201c09c15$cbfee5e0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Planet Earth, my place of birth Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:51:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > But, as written, the rules *also* allow for implicit amendment. So which > > principle do we choose? Can't somebody argue that 405 (in your example) > > implicitly amends 399, and thus there is no conflict? > > I missed that, where? 211 says you can explicitly give preference to your > own proposal, but how could you do so implicitly. > No, I guess that you're right. It's just that all that explicit and implicit language in the rules seems to suggest that one might be able to do that. I can't really think of an example off the top of my head, but I can imagine a situation in which a player might want to change a rule, but not make it absolutely explicit, in order to get the rule passed, win the game, etc. What I wouldn't want to see is the situation that I detailed before, i.e. that a player must singly amend each rule. I suppose that if we had provisions 846 and 848 (respectively establishing the office of Town Cryer and Court Jester as appointed, say based on scores of the players), and you wanted to pass 858 ("All positions shall be elected..."), then you could simply explicitly say: "This prop will amend 846 and 848" ? From eventi@n... Wed Feb 21 07:13:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 15:13:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 19327 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 15:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 15:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 16:14:10 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA15751 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:13:04 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Born to be the sole controller, of the universe Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:14:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <004201c09c15$cbfee5e0$c6a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > What I wouldn't want to see is the situation that I detailed before, i.e. > that a player must singly amend each rule. I suppose that if we had > provisions 846 and 848 (respectively establishing the office of Town Cryer > and Court Jester as appointed, say based on scores of the > players), and you > wanted to pass 858 ("All positions shall be elected..."), then you could > simply explicitly say: "This prop will amend 846 and 848" ? > 211 allows for a rule to declare precedence over a "type of rule", as in 213: "This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner" From eventi@n... Wed Feb 21 11:12:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 19:12:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29741 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 19:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:12:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA09933 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:12:53 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: A Quote Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:14:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 2:5 From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 11:34:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 19:34:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 81935 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:34:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 19:34:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:34:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LJYck35583 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:34:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c09c3d$3a47dc60$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] A Quote Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:33:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hmmm. But I gotta love the clean inbox. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 2:14 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] A Quote > though we have heard of stupid haste in war, > cleverness has never been seen > associated with long delays > -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 2:5 > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 11:36:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 19:36:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 86397 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 19:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:37:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:54:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 13:46:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 13:46:23 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:46:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: re: [scatterbrains] grinding halt Priority: normal References: 44231421 In-reply-to: <15308871.1442@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02ae92554191521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Feb 01, at 16:00, eventi@w... wrote: > It stands at 25 days, so we may have to wait. We haven't been turning > them around that quickly anyway. Then again, BA's leaving tomorrow AM, > so he may smack SA in the head tonight, and choose a proxy by morning. > Even then, he may not be able to post it to the list > > ------ > > Subject:[scatterbrains] grinding halt > > Are we going to test out the time limits or what? > There is not yet a proposal and it seems that from the Nomic > perspective, Bob is already in Mexico without transfering his voting > power. I believe we established that transfering (at least one) vote > is permissable. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 11:54:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 19:54:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 47796 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 19:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:54:31 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:12:18 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 14:04:24 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 14:04:22 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:04:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <008901c09bd2$27414400$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <028b11812201521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate > > > > proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over > > > > which they take precedence. > > > > > > It should be used in moderation, though. It would clearly be > > > better not to have a whole lot of stale rules around. > > > > > Yes, and out founding father's (Suber) reveals his logic again. The > > 25 immutable laws limit would discourage stale laws. > > > > But, in my deleted example there would be no stale law, but two > > different provisions regarding calling a vote that would both be > > effective in different cases. Only in the case of a CIRCUMSTANCE of > > conflict would one need to refer to a "precedence" clause. p > > Once again we're in almost perfect agreement (scary!) But we should > say that such a pair of laws should be avoided... It doesn't make > sense to call in the judge each time, if the conflict can be avoided. > I was starting to think you were Pat's evil side, but now I think > you're > the side of Pat that can admit to agreeing with me. I still think > you're Pat, though. > > In all seriousness. I've got a co-worker who's been hesitant to join > our little game, and I thought of a perfect plan. He can join, I get > ten points, and he can immediately tranfer all his votes to me. Then > he can go about his futile avoidance of this regime, at least until we > invade Queens. > > You would get five points, I have also been thinking about the need to avoid such an undesirable thing, and ways to make it happen. In the interest of "perfecting the rules" avoiding this rather than pressing it might be a better option, In the interest of our apparent time lag before we can move on a new proposal, somebody might want to incite mayhem just to sort things out. I don't know if you are serious, but if I were Pat in disguise, hwo did he suddly start typing so poorly. I dont't know if I want to try to prove that I Player Paul correspond to a real life Paul Kirkland. It is kind of funny if you assume I am not, and could really piss off Patrick if he is held responsible for the things I might say. But, in the interest of acknowledgment of an independently operating mind let me ask you Would P go to all the trouble to manage to get an email address at dominican univeristy for the sake of this game? you can check the website for my classes if that helps. Unfortunately a "secret question" answer would not be able to be confirmed. I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of my posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary skill to pull that off) I could do better than this if you are serious. The funny thing is that I was thinking this weekend about what woudl happen if someone invented a character, so I kinda don't want to give myself away as "real" because I could play all the same games without going to the trouble. Could we make a rule that says all players must correspond to an individual human being. Exactly what would count as proof? Avoiding this would require some other mechanism. It certainly is an interesting question, and one I think we should address, but sorry to disappoint I am real I will take this as a joke and a full compliment that I am not evil BJ (just Protestant) EJ p > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 12:04:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 20:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 55081 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:22:43 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 14:14:49 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 14:14:36 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:14:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reconciliation? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <008901c09bd2$27414400$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02a5d4322201521ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > I was unclear about whether amendments have to be separate > > > > proposals. It seems that they only have to state the laws over > > > > which they take precedence. > > > > > > It should be used in moderation, though. It would clearly be > > > better not to have a whole lot of stale rules around. > > > > > Yes, and out founding father's (Suber) reveals his logic again. The > > 25 immutable laws limit would discourage stale laws. > > > > But, in my deleted example there would be no stale law, but two > > different provisions regarding calling a vote that would both be > > effective in different cases. Only in the case of a CIRCUMSTANCE of > > conflict would one need to refer to a "precedence" clause. p > > Once again we're in almost perfect agreement (scary!) But we should > say that such a pair of laws should be avoided... It doesn't make > sense to call in the judge each time, if the conflict can be avoided. Sure, but it would be debatable on the basis of specific laws. I don't think my particular example would lead to a call to judgment. The point is that the earlier number preference thing would avoid that. Either the earlier law takes precedence in a conflict between two laws, or the later law states it. Paul > I was starting to think you were Pat's evil side, but now I think > you're > the side of Pat that can admit to agreeing with me. I still think > you're Pat, though. > > In all seriousness. I've got a co-worker who's been hesitant to join > our little game, and I thought of a perfect plan. He can join, I get > ten points, and he can immediately tranfer all his votes to me. Then > he can go about his futile avoidance of this regime, at least until we > invade Queens. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 15:01:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 23:01:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 19617 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 22:49:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 22:49:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 22:49:21 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LMnGk53930 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:49:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003301c09c58$6d20dfe0$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <028b11812201521ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oliver Stone is my best friend Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:48:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of my > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary skill > to pull that off) > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be another alter ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. That might in fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so much effort into developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that Steven Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both seem to have mysteriously disappeared at the same time? The plot thickens. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 15:24:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 23:24:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 34822 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 23:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 23:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 00:12:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1LNBGk55818 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:11:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004001c09c5b$7da20120$c0a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Some respect is due Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:10:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003D_01C09C31.93856F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C09C31.93856F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As much as you all might have disliked my CM bill, at least you have to rea= lize that there was some wisdom in my not giving the CM the power to pardon= ... ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C09C31.93856F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    As much as you all might have disliked my = CM bill,=20 at least you have to realize that there was some wisdom in my not giving th= e CM=20 the power to pardon...
    ------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C09C31.93856F60-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 15:55:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Feb 2001 23:55:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21725 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 23:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 23:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 23:45:19 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:03:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 17:55:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 17:55:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 17:55:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oliver Stone is my best friend Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003301c09c58$6d20dfe0$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02a681003001621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Feb 01, at 17:48, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of my > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary > > skill to pull that off) > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be another > alter ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. > That might in fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so > much effort into developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing > for "Fritz". > > For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that Steven > Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both seem to have > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > The plot thickens. > > For all I know, it is all you, you have lost it and want ot play politics instead of writing your dissertation of yours, and your getting tired and sending peopel to "Mexico" just as you are pushing the need for proxy votes and automatic votes. OOooooh!!!! Close messge times again (Beware of flouridation!!!) > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 16:03:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 00:03:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 85999 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 23:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2001 23:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 00:54:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:11:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 18:03:42 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 18:03:23 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:03:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: to play or not to play Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02c8e3411001621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" So what do you think. Should I try to prove my reality or play with the minds of the paranoid. By the way, it really is an intersting question. It woudl be impossible for me (or anyone else for that matter to prove that they exist as an independent person) from within the game. Anything proof that could be verified could also be checked in advance if I were invented. If you are paranoid to believe anyone woudl go to those lengths, have a blast. But, non-persons are not unallowed as players, and there is no way at present to ban a player under the rules. If I talk anymore about the need for an enforcement power with discretion, you might just think I am Pat again pk From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 17:46:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 01:46:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 35699 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 01:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 01:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 01:45:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1M1jtk69132 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:45:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008a01c09c71$19db16c0$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <02c8e3411001621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Hamlet lacked balls Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:45:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > If I talk anymore about the need for an enforcement power with > discretion, you might just think I am Pat again > You would then be Paul-Pat sliding into Pat (or Pat-Pat). At any rate Fritz-Pat, who hates Pat-Pat, would get made at Paul-Pat, and then... Oh this is far too confusing. From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 18:00:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:00:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 69782 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 03:01:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:18:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 20:10:21 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 20:10:20 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:10:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: Disseration hazard #519 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02a681218021621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" : =93That the poets lie too much? But Zarathustra too is a poet. Do you=20 now believe that he spoke the truth here? Why do you believe that?=94=20 (TSZ II.17). From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 18:04:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:04:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51186 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 02:04:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1M24Jk70566 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:04:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009801c09c73$ad6dcc00$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <02a681218021621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:03:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hahahaha! You're screwed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:10 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 > : "That the poets lie too much? But Zarathustra too is a poet. Do you > now believe that he spoke the truth here? Why do you believe that?" > (TSZ II.17). > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 18:11:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 54632 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 03:12:24 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:29:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 20:21:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 20:20:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:20:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <009801c09c73$ad6dcc00$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02b6b0929021621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Feb 01, at 21:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Hahahaha! > > You're screwed. ? That is just the line I was typing > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:10 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 > > > > : "That the poets lie too much? But Zarathustra too is a poet. Do > > you now believe that he spoke the truth here? Why do you believe > > that?" (TSZ II.17). > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 21 18:45:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:45:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 65001 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:45:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:45:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 02:45:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1M2j4k74096 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:45:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b601c09c79$5ce71d80$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <02b6b0929021621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:44:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 21 Feb 01, at 21:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Hahahaha! > > > > You're screwed. > ? > > That is just the line I was typing > > I feel like Erin, but what does the "that" in your sentence refer to? I meant that you were screwed because you have to somehow come up with way to read Nietzsche despite his willingness to wear masks. From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 21 18:52:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 02:52:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 92550 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 02:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 02:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 03:53:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:10:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 21:02:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Feb 01 21:02:22 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:02:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disseration hazard #519 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b601c09c79$5ce71d80$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02bbb4210031621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Feb 01, at 21:44, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 21 Feb 01, at 21:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Hahahaha! > > > > > > You're screwed. > > ? > > > > That is just the line I was typing > > > > I feel like Erin, You sound like her too but what does the "that" in your sentence refer to? > the entire previous message BJ (Hear sarcastic tone) Now everyone will know I am real, who would point out his own writing mistakes? EJ > I meant that you were screwed because you have to somehow come up with > way to read Nietzsche despite his willingness to wear masks. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Wed Feb 21 20:15:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 04:15:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 26734 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 04:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 04:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 05:16:33 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA24513 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:15:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002501c09c86$274ecbc0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <004001c09c5b$7da20120$c0a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Some respect is due Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:15:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" OK, I finally get it... ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:10 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Some respect is due As much as you all might have disliked my CM bill, at least you have to realize that there was some wisdom in my not giving the CM the power to pardon... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 22 05:55:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 13:55:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 35023 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:55:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 13:55:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.46) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:55:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.155] by fj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2001 13:55:08 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:55:06 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend Message-ID: <9735nq+k4g5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003301c09c58$6d20dfe0$c0a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1067 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... My silence of late has been directly related to my frustrations at work. I've been hard pressed just trying to keep up with your discussion, let alone participating. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of my > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary skill > > to pull that off) > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be another alter > ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. That might in > fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so much effort into > developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". > > For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that Steven > Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both seem to have > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > The plot thickens. From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 22 05:57:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 13:57:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11575 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 13:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:57:58 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1MDvuk22537 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:57:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c09cd7$5b3e86e0$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <9735nq+k4g5@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:57:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey Fritz! Good to have you back, sorry for the volume of transmissions. No offense, of course, we're just having a little fun with Eugene. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:55 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend > My silence of late has been directly related to my frustrations at > work. I've been hard pressed just trying to keep up with your > discussion, let alone participating. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of > my > > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary > skill > > > to pull that off) > > > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be > another alter > > ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. > That might in > > fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so much effort > into > > developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". > > > > For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that > Steven > > Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both > seem to have > > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > > > The plot thickens. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 22 06:40:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 14:40:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 44323 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 14:39:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:40:46 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA25645 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:39:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:41:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <000701c09cd7$5b3e86e0$c0a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > Hey Fritz! > > Good to have you back, sorry for the volume of transmissions. > > No offense, of course, we're just having a little fun with Eugene. > > p. Have you seen me post anything? PaulPat's just talking to himself again. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:55 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend > > > > My silence of late has been directly related to my frustrations at > > work. I've been hard pressed just trying to keep up with your > > discussion, let alone participating. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of > > my > > > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary > > skill > > > > to pull that off) > > > > > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be > > another alter > > > ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. > > That might in > > > fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so much effort > > into > > > developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". > > > > > > For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that > > Steven > > > Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both > > seem to have > > > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > > > > > The plot thickens. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Feb 22 06:53:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 14:53:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 99352 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 14:52:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 14:52:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:53:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA26862 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:52:48 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=C0_l'int=E9rieur_de_la_t=EAte_de_John_Malkovich?= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:54:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-UIDL: a22fed9fda3e669d99365239d4567d0a In-reply-to: 9cd75b3 Importance: Normal X-Status: 6Y From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Why does he keep speaking in the plural. You're not fooling anyone... On the possibility of imaginary players... Ordinarily, there would be a chain of trust, like a notary public provides. I know Pat is Pat, and he says Paul is really Paul. I can say that Paul is Paul with a degree of certainty relative to my certainty that Pat is Pat, and my trust in Pat. This certainty obviously decreases as the chain lengthens, though. If Paul were to introduce Pete, whom Pat doesn't know, I would trust Pete far less than Paul. If you amplify the degree on uncertainly in all the relationships to 50%, I'm 50% sure of Pat, 25% sure of Paul, and 12.5% sure of Pete. I've been thinking about this a bit, since population growth has slowed. I could invite players I "know" only by their online personas, but I'm only slightly certain of who they are, and far less certain of who they know. From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 22 07:17:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 15:17:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 48001 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:16:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1MFGik29429 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:16:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01c09ce2$61b27080$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Ceci n'est pas un Pat Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:15:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > On the possibility of imaginary players... Ordinarily, there would be a > chain of trust, like a notary public provides. I know Pat is Pat, and he > says Paul is really Paul. I can say that Paul is Paul with a degree of > certainty relative to my certainty that Pat is Pat, and my trust in Pat. > This certainty obviously decreases as the chain lengthens, though. If Paul > were to introduce Pete, whom Pat doesn't know, I would trust Pete far less > than Paul. If you amplify the degree on uncertainly in all the relationships > to 50%, I'm 50% sure of Pat, 25% sure of Paul, and 12.5% sure of Pete. I've > been thinking about this a bit, since population growth has slowed. I could > invite players I "know" only by their online personas, but I'm only slightly > certain of who they are, and far less certain of who they know. > So what's the problem? Invite them, if you'd like. For all that it matters, Paul is Paul for the sake of Nomic, even if Paul is really Pat in the real world. We are, after all, just building a city in bytes (as Paul, not Pat, mentioned before)... From eventi@n... Thu Feb 22 07:28:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 15:28:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 39564 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 15:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 15:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:28:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00557 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:28:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?saucisson_s=E8c_?= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:30:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <001c01c09ce2$61b27080$c0a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > On the possibility of imaginary players... Ordinarily, there would be a > > chain of trust, like a notary public provides. I know Pat is Pat, and he > > says Paul is really Paul. I can say that Paul is Paul with a degree of > > certainty relative to my certainty that Pat is Pat, and my trust in Pat. > > This certainty obviously decreases as the chain lengthens, > though. If Paul > > were to introduce Pete, whom Pat doesn't know, I would trust > Pete far less > > than Paul. If you amplify the degree on uncertainly in all the > relationships > > to 50%, I'm 50% sure of Pat, 25% sure of Paul, and 12.5% sure of Pete. > I've > > been thinking about this a bit, since population growth has slowed. I > could > > invite players I "know" only by their online personas, but I'm only > slightly > > certain of who they are, and far less certain of who they know. > > > So what's the problem? Invite them, if you'd like. For all that it > matters, Paul is Paul for the sake of Nomic, even if Paul is really Pat in > the real world. We are, after all, just building a city in bytes > (as Paul, > not Pat, mentioned before)... Just observations really... I'd considered posting an article to www.Kuro5hin.org, which is basically a community of people fed up with /. www.slashdot.org They're fairly civic minded at times, but often the possibility of multiple accounts comes up (each account can rate articles, to determine what gets posted where) From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 22 07:34:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 15:34:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 62225 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 15:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 15:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:33:13 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1MFXBk31178 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:33:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002401c09ce4$aa2c9960$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Cognac Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:32:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > Just observations really... I'd considered posting an article to > www.Kuro5hin.org, which is basically a community of people fed up with /. > www.slashdot.org They're fairly civic minded at times, but often the > possibility of multiple accounts comes up (each account can rate articles, > to determine what gets posted where) > Dammit. Now I know I'm a geek. I actually *know* where they got the name Kuro5hin from. However, I think that that book was kind of silly. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 08:04:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 16:03:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 38341 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 16:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 16:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 16:01:46 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:19:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:11:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:11:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:11:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend Priority: normal In-reply-to: <9735nq+k4g5@eGroups.com> References: <003301c09c58$6d20dfe0$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02ddc3019161621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 22 Feb 01, at 13:55, f_hemker@h... wrote: > My silence of late has been directly related to my frustrations at > work. Preparing for the destruction of the serene protected land of the polar bear, for the sake of the right of every American to drive their SUV to the supermarket? Can you send me the form letter with which you respond to misguided environmentalists who try to write to Murkowski. p I've been hard pressed just trying to keep up with your > discussion, let alone participating. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of my > > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the literary > skill > > to pull that off) > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to > the board, he could be another alter > ego, as well. So, asking for > his opinion wouldn't help much. That might in > fact explain Fritz's > silence of late, since I've put so much effort into > developing > "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". > > For that > matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that Steven > Arturo > and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both seem to have > > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > The plot thickens. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 08:06:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 16:06:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 41364 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 16:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 16:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 17:06:19 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:22:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:15:17 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:15:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:14:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000701c09cd7$5b3e86e0$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02b925922161621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 22 Feb 01, at 9:41, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > Hey Fritz! > > > > Good to have you back, sorry for the volume of transmissions. > > > > No offense, of course, we're just having a little fun with Eugene. > > > > p. > > Have you seen me post anything? PaulPat's just talking to himself > again. > Wait wait, patpat, fritzpat is supposed to object to something. Paulpat. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:55 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Oliver Stone is my best friend > > > > > > > My silence of late has been directly related to my frustrations at > > > work. I've been hard pressed just trying to keep up with your > > > discussion, let alone participating. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > On 21 Feb 01, at 1:47, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > I woudl think that Fritz could vouch for the correspondance of > > > my > > > > > posts to the character he knows. (I doubt P's has the > > > > > literary > > > skill > > > > > to pull that off) > > > > > > > > > Well, since I did introduce Fritz to the board, he could be > > > another alter > > > > ego, as well. So, asking for his opinion wouldn't help much. > > > That might in > > > > fact explain Fritz's silence of late, since I've put so much > > > > effort > > > into > > > > developing "Paul" that I've forgotten about writing for "Fritz". > > > > > > > > For that matter, Paul, have you considered the possibility that > > > Steven > > > > Arturo and Bob Arturo both have a similar name, and both > > > seem to have > > > > mysteriously disappeared at the same time? > > > > > > > > The plot thickens. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 08:19:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 16:19:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 75075 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 16:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 16:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:35:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:27:40 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 10:27:40 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:27:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: If you are going to talk about web identities I am going to talk about Plato Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001c01c09ce2$61b27080$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02aca2335161621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 22 Feb 01, at 10:15, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > On the possibility of imaginary players... Ordinarily, there would > > be a chain of trust, like a notary public provides. I know Pat is > > Pat, and he says Paul is really Paul. I can say that Paul is Paul > > with a degree of certainty relative to my certainty that Pat is Pat, > > and my trust in Pat. This certainty obviously decreases as the chain > > lengthens, though. If Paul were to introduce Pete, whom Pat doesn't > > know, I would trust Pete far less than Paul. If you amplify the > > degree on uncertainly in all the > relationships > > to 50%, I'm 50% sure of Pat, 25% sure of Paul, and 12.5% sure of > > Pete. > I've > > been thinking about this a bit, since population growth has slowed. > > I > could > > invite players I "know" only by their online personas, but I'm only > slightly > > certain of who they are, and far less certain of who they know. > > > So what's the problem? Invite them, if you'd like. For all that it > matters, Paul is Paul for the sake of Nomic, even if Paul is really > Pat in the real world. We are, after all, just building a city in > bytes (as Paul, not Pat, mentioned before)... > This discussion is very much like my students worrying about what Socrates "really" said. Maybe this is more like a *Platonic* dialogue than I thought (composesd by one mind, and perhaps based on real characters) Of course our turn to self-examination is not contributing to do a lot "building" at the moment. (OOoooh, another strange congruence, Paulpat and Pat are teaching the same books at the same time) I wonder what Zarathustra would say to Crito. 0> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Thu Feb 22 08:30:14 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 94978 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 16:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 16:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 16:30:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.4] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2001 16:30:09 -0000 Date: 22 Feb 2001 16:30:08 -0000 Message-ID: <982859408.648.68862.n5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Notify: From: To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the scatterbrains group. File : /ANWR Uploaded by : f_hemker@h... Description : form letter for ANWR You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/files/ANWR To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, f_hemker@h... From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 09:16:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 17:16:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 83351 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 17:16:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 17:16:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 17:16:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:33:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 11:26:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 11:25:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:25:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ANWR Priority: normal In-reply-to: <973em4+bg6r@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02ea45633171621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Some followup questions Sorry about the format, I cut and pasted the the sentences to=20 which my questions respond. M introduces items from the original letter. PK is me (or Patrick--who knows?) By the way, who wrote this? M:The Gwich=92in Natives in Alaska do oppose opening of the reserve,=20 and they are supported by the Sierra Club and other environmental=20 groups who primarily use the issue to increase their membership and=20 raise funds. PK:Do the Gwidh=92in native oppose opening the reserve primarily for=20 fund-raising purposes? .M: Grizzly bear populations have actually increased by 15 bears since oil= =20 development began at Prudhoe Bay. Bird populations also have=20 flourished in Prudhoe Bay since oil construction started. PK:So it both has no substantial impact on the environment of these=20 animals and has increased their populations? M:Arabia California=92s energy crisis and our nation and Saddam Hussein PK:This is just plain disingenuous oppurtunism If dependence on foreign oil is such a grave threat, shouldn=92t the=20 decrease of our use of oil be a substantial national security goal.=20=20 How does the Department of Transportation Budget jive with this? If the SUV were designated a car, how much less oil would we use in a=20 year? How does this correlate with the projected output of opening the=20 ANWR? I guess SUV=92s might be more utilitarian than cosmetic in Alaska. I guess if you are an Alaskan (or are elected by Alaskans) the oil=20 economy of Alaska is most persuasive, and in my understanding this is=20 decisive for the huge popular support in Alaska for opening the ANWR. But, really, how many people do we really need up there? 32,000 is a lot of people? (I guess I can=92t understand Alaskan politics) 32,000 people could leave NYC on one subway at rush hour=20 ok not quite, but it seems that way From eventi@n... Thu Feb 22 09:33:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 17:33:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 8333 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 17:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 17:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 17:32:31 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA13416 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:32:30 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] ANWR Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:34:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <02ea45633171621ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" As interresting as this all is, it really doesn't belong here... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ANWR > > > Some followup questions > Sorry about the format, I cut and pasted the the sentences to > which my questions respond. > M introduces items from the original letter. > PK is me (or Patrick--who knows?) > > By the way, who wrote this? > > M:The Gwich’in Natives in Alaska do oppose opening of the reserve, > and they are supported by the Sierra Club and other environmental > groups who primarily use the issue to increase their membership and > raise funds. > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 09:53:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 17:53:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 31780 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 17:53:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 17:53:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 17:53:00 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:10:40 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 12:02:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 12:02:52 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:02:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] ANWR Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <02ea45633171621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02bd54010181621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 22 Feb 01, at 12:34, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > As interresting as this all is, it really doesn't belong here... Unless it is being offered as evidence. I could create files for my=20 dissertation chapters. Kidding Sorry, Fritz, you could have sent it direclty to me For some reason Eugene does not think that we need to establish=20 a Nomic energy policy >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:26 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ANWR > > > > > > Some followup questions > > Sorry about the format, I cut and pasted the the sentences to > > which my questions respond. > > M introduces items from the original letter. > > PK is me (or Patrick--who knows?) > > > > By the way, who wrote this? > > > > M:The Gwich=92in Natives in Alaska do oppose opening of the reserve, > > and they are supported by the Sierra Club and other environmental > > groups who primarily use the issue to increase their membership and > > raise funds. > > >=20 >=20 > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> >=20 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 >=20 >=20 From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 22 11:35:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 19:35:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 95835 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 19:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 19:35:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 19:35:17 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1MJZFk55146 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:35:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c09d06$7aed23a0$bca811d0@computer> To: References: <973em4+bg6r@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ANWR Letter Pt. 1 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:34:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Damn. You replied seriously. I haven't read all the responses yet, but I have to say that I was hoping for some Fritzian satire... From f_hemker@h... Thu Feb 22 11:39:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 19:39:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 5434 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 19:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 19:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 19:39:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.94] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2001 19:39:18 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:39:13 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: ANWR Message-ID: <973pt1+nl3t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <02ea45633171621ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2200 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Let me give you a hint Paul, or whomever you are, it's all "plain disingenuous oppurtunism." That's politics. If principle mattered one wit you would see a completely different state of affairs. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Some followup questions > Sorry about the format, I cut and pasted the the sentences to > which my questions respond. > M introduces items from the original letter. > PK is me (or Patrick--who knows?) > > By the way, who wrote this? > > M:The Gwich'in Natives in Alaska do oppose opening of the reserve, > and they are supported by the Sierra Club and other environmental > groups who primarily use the issue to increase their membership and > raise funds. > > PK:Do the Gwidh'in native oppose opening the reserve primarily for > fund-raising purposes? > > .M: Grizzly bear populations have actually increased by 15 bears since oil > development began at Prudhoe Bay. Bird populations also have > flourished in Prudhoe Bay since oil construction started. > > PK:So it both has no substantial impact on the environment of these > animals and has increased their populations? > > M:Arabia California's energy crisis and our nation and Saddam Hussein > > PK:This is just plain disingenuous oppurtunism > > If dependence on foreign oil is such a grave threat, shouldn't the > decrease of our use of oil be a substantial national security goal. > How does the Department of Transportation Budget jive with this? > If the SUV were designated a car, how much less oil would we use in a > year? How does this correlate with the projected output of opening the > ANWR? > > I guess SUV's might be more utilitarian than cosmetic in Alaska. > > I guess if you are an Alaskan (or are elected by Alaskans) the oil > economy of Alaska is most persuasive, and in my understanding this is > decisive for the huge popular support in Alaska for opening the ANWR. > But, really, how many people do we really need up there? > > 32,000 is a lot of people? (I guess I can't understand Alaskan politics) > 32,000 people could leave NYC on one subway at rush hour > ok not quite, but it seems that way From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 11:59:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 19:59:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 37958 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 19:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 19:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 19:59:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:17:19 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 14:09:38 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 14:09:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:09:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: ANWR Priority: normal In-reply-to: <973pt1+nl3t@eGroups.com> References: <02ea45633171621ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02d1b1917201621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Just thought that "I" would point out some of the examples. It's actually a pretty good letter. Better than other anti- environmentalists environmantal letters I have seen. Did I forget to acknowledge that the Sierra Club specifically refers to many of its prospective members as "whales and seals people" (and polar bears for our current purposes), and fundraisers choose their rap by the cars in the driveway Volvos hit em with everything you have and ask for lots. BMWs fast and ask for as much as you have the nerve too Minvans--polar bears What would you show pictures of to raise Money, Toxic dumps? WWF bases its whole operation on the fact that people want that Panda sticker. so don't go calling me naive (just because you failed to find a witty response until Patrick prompted it) O yeah that's right you ARE pat, too. Wait wait, MY middle name is Eugene, I am writing a dissertation on a Freidrich (close enough) Pa is in both Paul and Patrick, and I can't think of anything for Bob and Steve to say O NO!! MAYBE *I* MADE THE WHOLE THING UP!!! On 22 Feb 01, at 19:39, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Let me give you a hint Paul, or whomever you are, it's all "plain > disingenuous oppurtunism." That's politics. If principle mattered > one wit you would see a completely different state of affairs. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > Some followup questions > Sorry about the format, I cut and pasted the > the sentences to > which my questions respond. > M introduces items > from the original letter. > PK is me (or Patrick--who knows?) > > By > the way, who wrote this? > > M:The Gwich'in Natives in Alaska do > oppose opening of the reserve, > and they are supported by the Sierra > Club and other environmental > groups who primarily use the issue to > increase their membership and > raise funds. > > PK:Do the Gwidh'in > native oppose opening the reserve primarily for > fund-raising > purposes? > > .M: Grizzly bear populations have actually increased by > 15 bears since oil > development began at Prudhoe Bay. Bird > populations also have > flourished in Prudhoe Bay since oil > construction started. > > PK:So it both has no substantial impact on > the environment of these > animals and has increased their > populations? > > M:Arabia California's energy crisis and our nation > and Saddam Hussein > > PK:This is just plain disingenuous oppurtunism > > > If dependence on foreign oil is such a grave threat, shouldn't the > > decrease of our use of oil be a substantial national security goal. > > How does the Department of Transportation Budget jive with this? > > If the SUV were designated a car, how much less oil would we use in a > > year? How does this correlate with the projected output of opening > the > ANWR? > > I guess SUV's might be more utilitarian than cosmetic > in Alaska. > > I guess if you are an Alaskan (or are elected by > Alaskans) the oil > economy of Alaska is most persuasive, and in my > understanding this is > decisive for the huge popular support in > Alaska for opening the ANWR. > But, really, how many people do we > really need up there? > > 32,000 is a lot of people? (I guess I can't > understand Alaskan politics) > 32,000 people could leave NYC on one > subway at rush hour > ok not quite, but it seems that way > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 12:01:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Feb 2001 20:01:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 5894 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 20:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2001 20:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 20:01:35 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:19:18 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 14:11:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 14:11:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:11:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable Subject: executive power Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02cb01819201621ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" To bear in mind when establishing offices I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for=20 predecessors as well."=97Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2001 =0F GWB see slate.com for complete list of Bushisms and a funny article today on a faith-based missile defense From bernardo@c... Thu Feb 22 16:03:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 22140 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 00:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 00:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 00:03:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-20.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.205]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1N033k80981 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:03:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c09d2b$e41af3a0$cda811d0@computer> To: References: <02cb01819201621ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] executive power Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:02:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > To bear in mind when establishing offices > I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for > predecessors as well."-Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2001  > GWB Paul: I hope that you did not send this with the intent of making fun of our executive. Just think of what would happen if he screwed up. What if we retroactively removed executive power from Washington - no national banks! - or Lincoln - no Civil War, and hence no Republican party? I shudder to think of the devastation this might cause. Next thing you will be casting doubt on the intellect of Reagan. From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 16:19:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 00:19:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 64570 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 00:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 00:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 01:20:21 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:36:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 18:29:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 18:29:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:29:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] executive power Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c09d2b$e41af3a0$cda811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02dd75736001721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 22 Feb 01, at 19:02, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To bear in mind when establishing offices > > I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but > > for predecessors as well."-Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2001  GWB > > Paul: > > I hope that you did not send this with the intent of making fun of our > executive. Just think of what would happen if he screwed up. What if > we retroactively removed executive power from Washington - no national > banks! - or Lincoln - no Civil War, and hence no Republican party? I > shudder to think of the devastation this might cause. > > Next thing you will be casting doubt on the intellect of Reagan. > RR should be on Mount Rushmore, W should be working the chisel This quote is more ironic in light of the discussion of his immediate precedecessor's executive power in the pardon issue Of course, its the second best thing that ever happend to W, no one pays too much attention to what he says. hey, we aren't the only one's who argue about moot points and debate irrelevancies. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Feb 22 16:30:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 00:30:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 52741 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 00:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 00:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 01:31:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:47:51 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 18:40:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Feb 01 18:40:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:39:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] executive power Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c09d2b$e41af3a0$cda811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <02f2c5147001721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" another coincidental correspondance to current work (actual note) This was the theory I was working with Eugene For Locke, the law of nature grants the power to execute the law to everyone in the state of nature. (Second Treatise II.8). No one naturally as authority over another, and thus all rightfully enforce rule of law. Locke considers the problem of such an enforcement power, for as each naturally prefers himself and his own, he will not be the judge in his own case. In such a condition, revenge will rule rather than justice. This problem of execution makes the institution of civil government necessary for order, justice, and prosperity (Second Treatise II.13) From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 06:38:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 14:38:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 21876 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 14:37:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 14:37:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 14:37:44 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NEbgk56327 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:37:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601c09da6$143196a0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <02f2c5147001721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] executive power Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:36:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > This was the theory I was working with Eugene > > For Locke, the law of nature grants the power to execute the law to > everyone in the state of nature. (Second Treatise II.8). No one naturally > as authority over another, and thus all rightfully enforce rule of law. > Locke considers the problem of such an enforcement power, for as each > naturally prefers himself and his own, he will not be the judge in his own > case. In such a condition, revenge will rule rather than justice. This > problem of execution makes the institution of civil government > necessary for order, justice, and prosperity (Second Treatise II.13) > Just a general note on Nomic. I mentioned this before in private discussion, but now might be a good time to reflect, for those of us who wish to do it. I think that our Nomic has gotten along fine (so far) without an executive. Why? Well, first of all, we're small. Nobody here wants to be the "asshole" of the group, so the peer pressure to remain polite works. But secondly, I really do think that the level of possible offenses is not so great. Losing Nomic is not dying. So, we're all willing to take the risk that comes with not having an executive. For most Scatterbrainers, the idea of punishment being revenge is not troubling, simply because neither the offense nor the punishment is really all that bad. From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:11:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:11:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 75758 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:11:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFABk59118 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:10:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007401c09daa$9e1a51a0$c3a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:09:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0071_01C09D80.B3A23260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C09D80.B3A23260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to ge= t back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast th= eir vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject disagre= ement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when th= e last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this roun= d at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then Steve= n has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thur= s4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just cou= nt days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since it i= s the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, bu= t he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the sec= ond case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it w= ill expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second counting me= thod, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight= - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make public= any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which = causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is th= e "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The eve= nt is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. Thus= I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a person= is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted a pr= oposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is subm= itted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points.=20=20 Comments? ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C09D80.B3A23260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Alright.  Steven has apparently baile= d. =20 Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business days = after the=20 last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."  Aside from= the=20 pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how= the=20 hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down - I s= ent my=20 score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we take that a= s the=20 cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2)=20 Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5)=20 Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days.&nb= sp;=20 So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and t= hus=20 Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 T= hurs=20 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon).  In the second case, the deadline will expire at= =20 midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm.  Of course, yo= u=20 might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in whi= ch=20 case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorek= eeper=20 must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 busine= ss=20 days of the event which causes the score change."  This brings up my=20 favorite question:  what is the "event" in non-participation?  I = could=20 see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily.  Each day beyond the ti= me=20 period is a different offense.  Thus I will have to send out different= =20 score reports for each day that a person is late.  2)The event is=20 determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he= =20 submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue = a=20 report deducting the total 5 points. 
     
    Comments?
    ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C09D80.B3A23260-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:15:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:15:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 47686 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:16:35 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29710; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:15:26 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Cc: "Steven G. Arturo" Subject: Just a friendly reminder Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:17:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" The Official Score was posted last Friday at 15:44(EST) That would make "within 5 business days" end in about 5 1/2 Hours. From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:18:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:18:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 65340 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:17:32 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFHUk59833 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:17:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009401c09dab$a39e4180$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Just a friendly reminder Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:16:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" President's Day doesn't count. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Cc: Steven G. Arturo Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Just a friendly reminder > The Official Score was posted last Friday at 15:44(EST) That would make > "within 5 business days" end in about 5 1/2 Hours. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:21:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:21:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 31604 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:20:45 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00409 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:20:44 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:22:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09D82.8F1A51F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <007401c09daa$9e1a51a0$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09D82.8F1A51F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of HTML When you send to the list? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points. Comments? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09D82.8F1A51F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is t= he=20 ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instea= d of=20 HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original Message-----
    Fr= om:=20 Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday,= =20 February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions= =20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently=20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business day= s after=20 the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."  Asid= e=20 from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his=20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down - I= sent my=20 score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we take that= as=20 the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2= )=20 Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5)=20 Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days.&= nbsp;=20 So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and= thus=20 Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3= =20 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon).  In the second case, the deadline will e= xpire=20 at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm.  Of cours= e,=20 you might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - = in=20 which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be=20 unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scor= ekeeper=20 must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 busi= ness=20 days of the event which causes the score change."  This brings up my= =20 favorite question:  what is the "event" in non-participation?  = I=20 could see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily.  Each day beyon= d the=20 time period is a different offense.  Thus I will have to send out=20 different score reports for each day that a person is late.  2)The e= vent=20 is determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal.  Thus, i= f he=20 submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issu= e a=20 report deducting the total 5 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09D82.8F1A51F0-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:22:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:22:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 8143 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:21:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00499 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:21:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Just a friendly reminder Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:23:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <009401c09dab$a39e4180$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Oh shit... That was President's day? I just knew it was some *day*... Shows how well holidays work... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:17 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Just a friendly reminder > > > President's Day doesn't count. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > Cc: Steven G. Arturo > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:17 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Just a friendly reminder > > > > The Official Score was posted last Friday at 15:44(EST) That would make > > "within 5 business days" end in about 5 1/2 Hours. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:24:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:24:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14656 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:24:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:25:26 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA00761 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:24:20 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Open mouth, insert foot, echo globally Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:26:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09D83.0FE42360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09D83.0FE42360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of HTML When you send to the list? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points. Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09D83.0FE42360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is= the=20 ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text inst= ead of=20 HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 = 10:09=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching=20 DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently=20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business d= ays after=20 the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."  As= ide=20 from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his= =20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down -= I sent=20 my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we take= that=20 as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues= 4pm=20 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5)= =20 Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just count days as, well calendar=20 days.  So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the = last=20 vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of i= t (1=20 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon).  In the second case, the= =20 deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire= at=20 4pm.  Of course, you might want to use the second counting method,= and=20 count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but= this=20 might be unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he sc= orekeeper=20 must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2=20 business days of the event which causes the score change."  This b= rings=20 up my favorite question:  what is the "event" in=20 non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event i= s=20 daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.&nb= sp;=20 Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that = a=20 person is late.  2)The event is determined once Steven has finally= =20 submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late,= =20 after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total= 5=20 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C09D83.0FE42360-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:30:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:30:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 26483 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:28:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFSPk60830 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:28:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b201c09dad$2c92dfe0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Looking out for my mail program Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:27:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C09D83.3CBBEF80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C09D83.3CBBEF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sure that there is a way for me to send plain text, but why? And why d= oes your white-ass program put those stupid lines in replies? :) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOO= M 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event = is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight =20=20=20 Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of HT= ML When you send to the list? =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA t= o get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cas= t their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject dis= agreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know whe= n the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this = round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then S= teven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-= Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just= count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since = it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left= , but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the= second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first = it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second countin= g method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight ton= ight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make pu= blic any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event wh= ich causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what i= s the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The= event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. = Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a pe= rson is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted = a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is = submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points.=20=20 Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C09D83.3CBBEF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    I'm sure that there is a way for me to sen= d plain=20 text, but why?  And why does your white-ass program put those stupid l= ines=20 in replies? :)
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10= :22=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Quest= ions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is= the=20 ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text inst= ead of=20 HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Question= s=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently=20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business d= ays after=20 the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."  As= ide=20 from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his= =20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down -= I sent=20 my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we take= that=20 as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues= 4pm=20 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5)= =20 Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just count days as, well calendar=20 days.  So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the = last=20 vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of i= t (1=20 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon).  In the second case, the= =20 deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire= at=20 4pm.  Of course, you might want to use the second counting method,= and=20 count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but= this=20 might be unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he sc= orekeeper=20 must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2=20 business days of the event which causes the score change."  This b= rings=20 up my favorite question:  what is the "event" in=20 non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event i= s=20 daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.&nb= sp;=20 Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that = a=20 person is late.  2)The event is determined once Steven has finally= =20 submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late,= =20 after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total= 5=20 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C09D83.3CBBEF80-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:32:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:32:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 21241 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:32:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFVRk61035 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:31:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00be01c09dad$966246e0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:30:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09D83.AC567E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09D83.AC567E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, I have to send score reports for each day that SA is late. The only pr= oblem with this, is that Steven would have to appeal all of them separately= . I guess not that big of a deal. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOO= M 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event = is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight =20=20=20 Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of HT= ML When you send to the list? =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA t= o get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cas= t their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject dis= agreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know whe= n the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this = round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then S= teven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-= Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just= count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since = it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left= , but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the= second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first = it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second countin= g method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight ton= ight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make pu= blic any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event wh= ich causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what i= s the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The= event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. = Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a pe= rson is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted = a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is = submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points.=20=20 Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09D83.AC567E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    So, I have to send score reports for each = day that=20 SA is late.  The only problem with this, is that Steven would have to= =20 appeal all of them separately.
     
    I guess not that big of a deal.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10= :22=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Quest= ions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is= the=20 ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text inst= ead of=20 HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Question= s=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently=20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business d= ays after=20 the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."  As= ide=20 from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his= =20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down -= I sent=20 my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we take= that=20 as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues= 4pm=20 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5)= =20 Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just count days as, well calendar=20 days.  So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the = last=20 vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of i= t (1=20 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon).  In the second case, the= =20 deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire= at=20 4pm.  Of course, you might want to use the second counting method,= and=20 count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but= this=20 might be unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he sc= orekeeper=20 must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2=20 business days of the event which causes the score change."  This b= rings=20 up my favorite question:  what is the "event" in=20 non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event i= s=20 daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.&nb= sp;=20 Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that = a=20 person is late.  2)The event is determined once Steven has finally= =20 submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late,= =20 after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total= 5=20 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C09D83.AC567E00-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:34:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:34:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 61554 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:32:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFWkk61251 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:32:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ce01c09dad$c5fbf220$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <00b201c09dad$2c92dfe0$c3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Looking out for my mail program Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:32:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C09D83.DBE70180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C09D83.DBE70180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, plain text done in scatterbrains property. Is this good now? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Looking out for my mail program I'm sure that there is a way for me to send plain text, but why? And why= does your white-ass program put those stupid lines in replies? :) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching D= OOM 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the even= t is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight =20=20=20=20=20 Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of = HTML When you send to the list? =20=20=20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA= to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has c= ast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject d= isagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know w= hen the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for thi= s round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then= Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4p= m-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could ju= st count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, sinc= e it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day le= ft, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In t= he second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the firs= t it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second count= ing method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight t= onight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make = public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event = which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what= is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) T= he event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.= Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a = person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitte= d a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop i= s submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points.=20=20 Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C09D83.DBE70180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Actually, plain text done in scatterbrains= =20 property.  Is this good now?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Pa= trick D.=20 Bernardo
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10= :27=20 AM
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Looki= ng out=20 for my mail program

    I'm sure that there is a way for me to s= end plain=20 text, but why?  And why does your white-ass program put those stupid= =20 lines in replies? :)
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 = 10:22=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Que= stions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event = is=20 the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight=20 tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text in= stead=20 of HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Questi= ons=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently= =20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business= days=20 after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."&= nbsp;=20 Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this= is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast h= is=20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down= - I sent=20 my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we ta= ke=20 that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1)=20 F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4)=20 Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just = count=20 days as, well calendar days.  So, we don't count last Friday, si= nce=20 it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one da= y=20 left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5=20 Mon).  In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight = on=20 Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm.  Of course, you migh= t=20 want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in whi= ch=20 case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be=20 unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he= =20 scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's sco= re=20 within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change."&n= bsp;=20 This brings up my favorite question:  what is the "event" in=20 non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event= is=20 daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.&= nbsp;=20 Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day tha= t a=20 person is late.  2)The event is determined once Steven has final= ly=20 submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days lat= e,=20 after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the tot= al 5=20 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_00CB_01C09D83.DBE70180-- From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:37:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:37:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 3874 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:37:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:37:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:37:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA02162 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:37:18 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Looking out for my mail program Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:39:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <00ce01c09dad$c5fbf220$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Actually, it only shows up when you originate the message, not a reply. Try to create a new one... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:32 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Looking out for my mail program Actually, plain text done in scatterbrains property. Is this good now? From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 07:43:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:43:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 15202 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:41:43 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NFfbk61918 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:41:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e501c09daf$0419a100$c3a811d0@computer> To: Subject: I had a feeling that was the case. Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:40:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" A happy, clean, plain text message. This is a test of my conformity to the zoning rules of Scatterbrains. From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 07:55:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 15:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 40913 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 15:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 15:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 15:52:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03620 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:52:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] I had a feeling that was the case. Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <00e501c09daf$0419a100$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" About time... Now about those plastic Flamingos... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:41 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] I had a feeling that was the case. > > > A happy, clean, plain text message. > > This is a test of my conformity to the zoning rules of Scatterbrains. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 08:27:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 16:27:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 24320 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 16:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:23:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06632 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:23:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:25:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09D8B.59BE90D0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <00be01c09dad$966246e0$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09D8B.59BE90D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, combination of bad wording on my part, and lack of foresight on Bob's part. I wasn't really thinking penalties, and Bob wasn't thinking scorekeeper. And 312 says "make public", so you don't have to necessarily post to the list, but do update the web page at least once every 2 business days. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:31 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM So, I have to send score reports for each day that SA is late. The only problem with this, is that Steven would have to appeal all of them separately. I guess not that big of a deal. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead of HTML When you send to the list? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points. Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09D8B.59BE90D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Yeah,=20 combination of bad wording on my part, and lack of foresight on Bob's=20 part.  I wasn't really thinking penalties, and Bob wasn't thinking=20 scorekeeper.  And 312 says "make public", so you don't have to necessa= rily=20 post to the list, but do update the web page at least once every 2 business= =20 days.
     
     -----Original Message-----
    Fr= om:=20 Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday,= =20 February 23, 2001 10:31 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questi= ons=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    So, I have to send score reports for eac= h day=20 that SA is late.  The only problem with this, is that Steven would h= ave=20 to appeal all of them separately.
     
    I guess not that big of a deal.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 = 10:22=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Que= stions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    2=20 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the event = is=20 the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight=20 tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text in= stead=20 of HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Questi= ons=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparently= =20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 business= days=20 after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal."&= nbsp;=20 Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this= is=20 worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast h= is=20 vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this down= - I sent=20 my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  If we ta= ke=20 that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1)=20 F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4)=20 Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could just = count=20 days as, well calendar days.  So, we don't count last Friday, si= nce=20 it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one da= y=20 left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5=20 Mon).  In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight = on=20 Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm.  Of course, you migh= t=20 want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in whi= ch=20 case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be=20 unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he= =20 scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's sco= re=20 within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change."&n= bsp;=20 This brings up my favorite question:  what is the "event" in=20 non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event= is=20 daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a different offense.&= nbsp;=20 Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day tha= t a=20 person is late.  2)The event is determined once Steven has final= ly=20 submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days lat= e,=20 after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the tot= al 5=20 points. 
     
    Comments?


    To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C09D8B.59BE90D0-- From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 08:44:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 16:44:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 64898 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:38:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 16:38:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:38:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NGc5k66695 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c09db6$e94202c0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:37:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09D8C.F4031980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09D8C.F4031980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Should we take a poll about the timing issue? Or is there a better way to = determine the exact time of expiration? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOO= M Yeah, combination of bad wording on my part, and lack of foresight on Bob= 's part. I wasn't really thinking penalties, and Bob wasn't thinking score= keeper. And 312 says "make public", so you don't have to necessarily post = to the list, but do update the web page at least once every 2 business days= . =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:31 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOO= M So, I have to send score reports for each day that SA is late. The onl= y problem with this, is that Steven would have to appeal all of them separa= tely. I guess not that big of a deal. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching= DOOM 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the ev= ent is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text instead o= f HTML When you send to the list? =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOO= M Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for = BA to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has= cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject= disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know= when the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for t= his round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, th= en Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed= 4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could = just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, si= nce it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day = left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In= the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the fi= rst it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second cou= nting method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight= tonight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and mak= e public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the even= t which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: wh= at is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1)= The event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offens= e. Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that = a person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submit= ted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop= is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points.=20=20 Comments? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service= .=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click here for Classmates.com=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09D8C.F4031980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Should we take a poll about the timing iss= ue? =20 Or is there a better way to determine the exact time of expiration?<= /DIV>
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11= :25=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Quest= ions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Yeah, combination of bad wording on my part, and lack of foresig= ht on=20 Bob's part.  I wasn't really thinking penalties, and Bob wasn't thin= king=20 scorekeeper.  And 312 says "make public", so you don't have to=20 necessarily post to the list, but do update the web page at least once ev= ery 2=20 business days.
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 = 10:31=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching=20 DOOM

    So, I have to send score reports for e= ach day=20 that SA is late.  The only problem with this, is that Steven would= have=20 to appeal all of them separately.
     
    I guess not that big of a deal.=
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20
    Sent: Friday, February 23, 200= 1 10:22=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) a= nd the=20 event is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight=20 tonight
     
    Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text = instead=20 of HTML When you send to the list?
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Ques= tions=20 regarding Steven's approaching DOOM

    Alright.  Steven has apparent= ly=20 bailed.  Probably he's waiting for BA to get back.
     
    As 308 is written, S has "5 busine= ss days=20 after the last player has cast their vote on the previous=20 proposal."  Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hat= e the=20 way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when the las= t=20 player has cast his vote?
     
    I see two ways of breaking this do= wn - I=20 sent my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday.  I= f we=20 take that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left= (1)=20 F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4)=20 Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm).  Or, we could jus= t=20 count days as, well calendar days.  So, we don't count last Fr= iday,=20 since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has onl= y one=20 day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today]= 5=20 Mon).  In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnigh= t on=20 Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm.  Of course, you mi= ght=20 want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in w= hich=20 case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be=20 unfair.
     
    Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]h= e=20 scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's s= core=20 within 2 business days of the event which causes the score=20 change."  This brings up my favorite question:  what is t= he=20 "event" in non-participation?  I could see it two ways, again.= 1)=20 The event is daily.  Each day beyond the time period is a diff= erent=20 offense.  Thus I will have to send out different score reports= for=20 each day that a person is late.  2)The event is determined onc= e=20 Steven has finally submitted a proposal.  Thus, if he submits = a=20 proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue a= =20 report deducting the total 5 points. 
     
    Comments?


    = To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.



    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C09D8C.F4031980-- From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 23 08:46:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 16:46:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 78280 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 16:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw4.njit.edu) (128.235.251.32) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:41:46 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw4.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1NGfi020077 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:41:44 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G970070BYDK02@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:41:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:42:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:42:25 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09D8D.B21F01E0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" haha. i am here, patiently utilizing my five business days. unfortunately, i do not bring a proposal. i will, however, withdraw from the game due to my workload here at school. my scatterbrains folder has 120 unread messages. this is the clearest sign i can imagine of my inability to keep up with the happenings of the group. i bid you all a fond farewell. steve0 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to get back. As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote? I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and make public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total 5 points. Comments? << File: ATT00000.htm >> From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 08:54:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 16:54:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 56345 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 16:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:49:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09198 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:49:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:51:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C09D8D.B21F01E0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:42 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > haha. i am here, patiently utilizing my five business days. > > unfortunately, i do not bring a proposal. i will, however, withdraw from > the game due to my workload here at school. my scatterbrains folder has > 120 unread messages. this is the clearest sign i can imagine of my > inability to keep up with the happenings of the group. > > i bid you all a fond farewell. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > approaching DOOM > > Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to > get back. > > As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast > their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject > disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell > do we know > when the last player has cast his vote? > > I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this > round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then > Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) > Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we > could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last > Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has > only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri > [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight > on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want > to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case > Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. > > Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and > make public > any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which > causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is > the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The > event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. > Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a > person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally > submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after > the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total > 5 points. > > Comments? > << File: ATT00000.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 09:01:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 17:01:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 48122 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 16:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 17:57:14 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09867 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:56:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:58:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C09D8D.B21F01E0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Dude- Gimme your points > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:42 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > haha. i am here, patiently utilizing my five business days. > > unfortunately, i do not bring a proposal. i will, however, withdraw from > the game due to my workload here at school. my scatterbrains folder has > 120 unread messages. this is the clearest sign i can imagine of my > inability to keep up with the happenings of the group. > > i bid you all a fond farewell. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > approaching DOOM > > Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to > get back. > > As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast > their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject > disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell > do we know > when the last player has cast his vote? > > I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this > round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then > Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) > Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we > could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last > Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has > only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri > [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight > on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want > to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case > Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. > > Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and > make public > any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which > causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is > the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The > event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. > Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a > person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally > submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after > the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total > 5 points. > > Comments? > << File: ATT00000.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 10:06:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 18:06:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 52274 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 17:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 17:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 18:54:09 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NHr2k74823 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:53:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c09dc1$5dec7380$c2a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 314 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:52:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" This oughta liven things up: Proposal 314: Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "wage slave." Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of wage slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the wage slave shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right. Official days shall be calendar days. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage slavery will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the voting right until such time as the period of wage slavery ends. End Prop 314. I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the idea. From sga5892@n... Fri Feb 23 10:10:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sga5892@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 18:10:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 84335 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 17:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 17:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-gw3.njit.edu) (128.235.251.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 17:57:32 -0000 Received: from mailhost.njit.edu (mailhost.njit.edu [128.235.251.108]) by mail-gw3.njit.edu (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f1NHvUI32654 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:57:30 -0500 Received: from steve0 (dhcp194-216.njit.edu) by mailhost.njit.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G98008IH1VT4C@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:58:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:58:12 -0500 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Reply-to: "sga5892@n..." Message-id: <01C09D98.47E42DE0.sga5892@n...> Organization: NJIT MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: "Steven G. Arturo" i do not know of a fair or just way of ridding my points...so ill take them down with the ship -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:58 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Dude- Gimme your points > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:42 AM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > haha. i am here, patiently utilizing my five business days. > > unfortunately, i do not bring a proposal. i will, however, withdraw from > the game due to my workload here at school. my scatterbrains folder has > 120 unread messages. this is the clearest sign i can imagine of my > inability to keep up with the happenings of the group. > > i bid you all a fond farewell. > > steve0 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > approaching DOOM > > Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to > get back. > > As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast > their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject > disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell > do we know > when the last player has cast his vote? > > I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this > round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, then > Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) > Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we > could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last > Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has > only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri > [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire at midnight > on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you might want > to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case > Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. > > Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and > make public > any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the event which > causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is > the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, again. 1) The > event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. > Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each day that a > person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally > submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after > the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total > 5 points. > > Comments? > << File: ATT00000.htm >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bernardo@c... Fri Feb 23 10:21:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 18:21:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 84556 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 18:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 18:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 18:09:38 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1NI9Xk76381 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:09:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c09dc3$ae07bc60$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <002101c09dc1$5dec7380$c2a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:08:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" This will take precedent over Fritz's law, as far as it forbids point transfers becoming negative. But I can't remember the # right now, and I don't feel like looking it up. I'll add it soon, though, with a statement saying that you may get yourself into the negative with point transfers. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 > This oughta liven things up: > > Proposal 314: > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "wage slave." > Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of wage > slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, his point > total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At > that point, the wage slave shall be a full participant again, and shall > regain his voting right. Official days shall be calendar days. However, if > a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage > slavery will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not participate in > the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the voting right until such > time as the period of wage slavery ends. > > End Prop 314. > > I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the idea. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 10:26:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 18:26:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25525 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 18:14:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 18:14:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 19:15:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA17901 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:14:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:16:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <01C09D98.47E42DE0.sga5892@n...> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Learn something from the Clintons... Why bother being fair... > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:58 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > i do not know of a fair or just way of ridding my points...so ill > take them down with the ship > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [SMTP:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:58 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > approaching DOOM > > Dude- > Gimme your points > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven G. Arturo [mailto:sga5892@n...] > > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:42 AM > > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > > DOOM > > > > > > haha. i am here, patiently utilizing my five business days. > > > > unfortunately, i do not bring a proposal. i will, however, > withdraw from > > the game due to my workload here at school. my scatterbrains folder has > > 120 unread messages. this is the clearest sign i can imagine of my > > inability to keep up with the happenings of the group. > > > > i bid you all a fond farewell. > > > > steve0 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [SMTP:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > > approaching DOOM > > > > Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting for BA to > > get back. > > > > As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player has cast > > their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the pronoun/subject > > disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how the hell > > do we know > > when the last player has cast his vote? > > > > I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report for this > > round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off > point, then > > Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm 3) > > Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). Or, we > > could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't count last > > Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus Steven still has > > only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri > > [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline will expire > at midnight > > on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. Of course, you > might want > > to use the second counting method, and count the Friday - in which case > > Steve has until midnight tonight - but this might be unfair. > > > > Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and > > make public > > any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the > event which > > causes the score change." This brings up my favorite question: what is > > the "event" in non-participation? I could see it two ways, > again. 1) The > > event is daily. Each day beyond the time period is a different offense. > > Thus I will have to send out different score reports for each > day that a > > person is late. 2)The event is determined once Steven has finally > > submitted a proposal. Thus, if he submits a proposal 5 days late, after > > the prop is submitted, I would issue a report deducting the total > > 5 points. > > > > Comments? > > << File: ATT00000.htm >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From eventi@n... Fri Feb 23 11:32:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 19:32:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 18707 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 19:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 20:23:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA24519 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:21:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:23:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <002101c09dc1$5dec7380$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think this is an amendment to 305. It clearly contradicts "Each player is an eligable voter," and arguably ;) "... must participate ..." I don't really see the trouble with "Fritz's Law", there are no points explicitly transferred to or from another player. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:52 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 > > > This oughta liven things up: > > Proposal 314: > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a > "wage slave." > Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of wage > slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, his point > total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At > that point, the wage slave shall be a full participant again, and shall > regain his voting right. Official days shall be calendar days. > However, if > a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage > slavery will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not > participate in > the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the voting right until such > time as the period of wage slavery ends. > > End Prop 314. > > I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the idea. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 23 11:44:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 19:44:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 20012 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 19:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 20:37:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:54:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 13:46:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 13:46:11 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:46:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] executive power Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001601c09da6$143196a0$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0308d5954191721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I don't yet know if this discussion continued On 23 Feb 01, at 9:36, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > This was the theory I was working with Eugene > > > > For Locke, the law of nature grants the power to execute the law to > > everyone in the state of nature. (Second Treatise II.8). No one > > naturally as authority over another, and thus all rightfully enforce > > rule of law. Locke considers the problem of such an enforcement > > power, for as each naturally prefers himself and his own, he will > > not be the judge in his own case. In such a condition, revenge will > > rule rather than justice. This problem of execution makes the > > institution of civil government necessary for order, justice, and > > prosperity (Second Treatise II.13) > > > > Just a general note on Nomic. I mentioned this before in private > discussion, but now might be a good time to reflect, for those of us > who wish to do it. > > I think that our Nomic has gotten along fine (so far) without an > executive. Why? Well, first of all, we're small. Nobody here wants > to be the "asshole" of the group, so the peer pressure to remain > polite works. But secondly, I really do think that the level of > possible offenses is not so great. Losing Nomic is not dying. So, > we're all willing to take the risk that comes with not having an > executive. For most Scatterbrainers, the idea of punishment being > revenge is not troubling, simply because neither the offense nor the > punishment is really all that bad. > > Fine, but does that not mean that everyone should have the right to enforce the law. I agree that the costs of vengeance are relatively small, but there are other reasons that are in Nomic interests to have an executive with enforcement power. Primarily, equity. I don't like automatic penalties. If, for example someone voted against their own proposal because they had become convinced that it was not good and no changes were enough, and it did not pass, they still lose ten points. Ten is a very reasonable penalty since it would cancel the advantage, but there are situations where a different penalty may be more appropriate for the same offense. An executive with the power to determine and impose penalties would serve two purposes clearly in the advantage of Nomic. More appropriate penalies (if this position were elected) Efficiency in lawmaking (determining penalties woudl not be a necessary element of lawmaking) > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Fri Feb 23 11:51:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 19:51:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 57163 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 19:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 19:38:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.68] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2001 19:38:50 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:38:49 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 314 Message-ID: <976e89+jfeo@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <002101c09dc1$5dec7380$c2a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1707 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... In the time that I have I don't know if I can express everything that is wrong with this proposal. While nowhere made explicit, I operate with the understanding that voting rights are inalienable. This proposal spits in the face of that idea. Of course, we don't need a bill of rights, we just have to understand the nature of man. Slavery of any kind goes against this idea. You couldn't offer me enough points to vote for this proposal. Try again, Pat. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > This oughta liven things up: > > Proposal 314: > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "wage slave." > Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of wage > slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, his point > total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At > that point, the wage slave shall be a full participant again, and shall > regain his voting right. Official days shall be calendar days. However, if > a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage > slavery will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not participate in > the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the voting right until such > time as the period of wage slavery ends. > > End Prop 314. > > I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the idea. From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 23 11:58:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 19:58:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 50882 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 19:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 20:51:24 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:08:52 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 14:00:24 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 13:59:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:59:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <00be01c09dad$966246e0$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0305d5208201721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I am thinking midnight is the better cutoff than a specific time for unspecified deadlines. both the five and the two Did I miss it? Did you settle this? I see that it will become irrelevant, but we might as well make it clear. On 23 Feb 01, at 11:25, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Yeah, combination of bad wording on my part, and lack of foresight on > Bob's part. I wasn't really thinking penalties, and Bob wasn't > thinking scorekeeper. And 312 says "make public", so you don't have > to necessarily post to the list, but do update the web page at least > once every 2 business days. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > So, I have to send score reports for each day that SA is late. The > only > problem with this, is that Steven would have to appeal all of them > separately. > > I guess not that big of a deal. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:22 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's > approaching > DOOM > > > 2 things: Monday wasn't a Federal Holiday (check the list) and the > event > is the ticking of the clock past 15:44EST, or Midnight tonight > > Actually thing 3: Is there a way for you to send Plain Text > instead of > HTML When you send to the list? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching > DOOM > > > Alright. Steven has apparently bailed. Probably he's waiting > for BA > to get back. > > As 308 is written, S has "5 business days after the last player > has > cast their vote on the previous proposal." Aside from the > pronoun/subject disagreement, I hate the way that this is worded - how > the hell do we know when the last player has cast his vote? > > I see two ways of breaking this down - I sent my score report > for this > round at about 4pm on Friday. If we take that as the cut-off point, > then Steven has only one "day" left (1) F4pm-Tues4pm 2) Tues4pm-Wed4pm > 3) Wed4pm-Thurs4pm 4) Thurs4pm-Fri4pm[today!] and 5) Fri4pm-M4pm). > Or, we could just count days as, well calendar days. So, we don't > count last Friday, since it is the day of the last vote, and thus > Steven still has only one day left, but he has more of it (1 Tues 2 > Wed 3 Thurs 4 Fri [Today] 5 Mon). In the second case, the deadline > will expire at midnight on Monday, in the first it will expire at 4pm. > Of course, you might want to use the second counting method, and > count the Friday - in which case Steve has until midnight tonight - > but this might be unfair. > > Secondly, as 312 is written, "[t]he scorekeeper must record and > make > public any changes to a player's score within 2 business days of the > event which causes the score change." This brings up my favorite > question: what is the "event" in non-participation? I could see it > two ways, again. 1) The event is daily. Each day beyond the time > period is a different offense. Thus I will have to send out different > score reports for each day that a person is late. 2)The event is > determined once Steven has finally submitted a proposal. Thus, if he > submits a proposal 5 days late, after the prop is submitted, I would > issue a report deducting the total 5 points. > > Comments? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Click here for Classmates.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Feb 23 12:03:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Feb 2001 20:03:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1932 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Feb 2001 19:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 19:55:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:13:49 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 14:05:21 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Feb 01 14:04:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:04:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002101c09dc1$5dec7380$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0307b4913201721ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Can you sell em. On 23 Feb 01, at 12:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > This oughta liven things up: > > Proposal 314: > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "wage > slave." Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration > of wage slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, > his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it > reaches 0 again. At that point, the wage slave shall be a full > participant again, and shall regain his voting right. Official days > shall be calendar days. However, if a player's point total drops > below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage slavery will be the > following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting > right being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not > participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the > voting right until such time as the period of wage slavery ends. > > End Prop 314. > > I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the > idea. > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@c... Fri Feb 23 22:27:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 06:27:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28148 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 06:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 06:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 06:27:24 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA05270 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:27:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01a201c09e2a$ea20b140$126d1d40@v...> To: "Nomic" Subject: Disgusted at the lack of disgust. Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:27:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm more than a little disgusted by today's turn of events, and slightly more so at the lack of disgust on our parts. We lost 1/6 of our population today, with not so much as a goodbye, or even a cursory acknowledgement. The reason Steven left is the same reason the average person in the real world doesn't get involved in the political process. He said he couldn't 'keep up' with what was going on. I can relate to that. A large portion of the 100+ messages he had yet to read could have been safely disregarded. I'm as guilty as anyone for the excess noise. And I'm lost, or just don't have time to follow Locke's theory (I did flag it for later) on executive power, or Q&A sessions on Alaskan environmental policy. If I wasn't Paul(and I'm not,) I wouldn't have to be concerned with the long running patpaul joke, either. I really feel we should restrain ourselves to official communication on this list, and create another list for semi-topical, or off-topic conversation. Possibly limit the official list to Proposals, debate before finalizing, poll results, and matters of public record From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 24 07:45:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 15:45:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12973 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 15:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 15:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:46:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1OFj0k74967 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:45:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c09e78$a527ffa0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <01a201c09e2a$ea20b140$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] i'm going to turn dining back into eating. Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:44:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > I'm more than a little disgusted by today's turn of events, and slightly > more so at the lack of disgust on our parts. We lost 1/6 of our population > today, with not so much as a goodbye, or even a cursory acknowledgement. Not that it really matters, but I sent ole' SGA an off-list message mourning his passing. I think that the reason that there was silence was because what sense does it really make to post about it to the board if he just declared that he quit and won't be reading it anymore? My speedy proposal was for two reasons: a) I'd been kicking it around, and felt like getting it out there; b) the rules as written did not take into account someone leaving. I realized that when SGA left, it was my turn, AND I HAD 5 DAYS FROM THE LAST VOTE! In case someone wanted to get overly legalistic with me, and dock me points, I just went ahead and proposed... > The reason Steven left is the same reason the average person in the > real world doesn't get involved in the political process. He said he > couldn't 'keep up' with what was going on. ??? The average person doesn't have a proposal to write and defend. SGA dropped out because he is in the panic mode that comes to everyone as they are leading up to their proposal. Even 30 minutes a day seems like a serious amount of wasted time. Also, SGA is not online while he works, as most of the rest of us are. That makes it easy for us to take this in 5 or 6 message chunks, but very difficult for him when he comes home and sees 85 scatterbrains messages. > I can relate to that. A large portion of the 100+ messages he had yet > to read could have been safely disregarded. I'm as guilty as anyone for the > excess noise. And I'm lost, or just don't have time to follow Locke's theory > (I did flag it for later) on executive power, or Q&A sessions on Alaskan > environmental policy. If I wasn't Paul(and I'm not,) I wouldn't have to be > concerned with the long running patpaul joke, either. So what? No offense, Eug. But delete it. I hope that's what everyone's doing. I know that I am. Try it! Every time you hit that delete key it's like cleaning the dust-bunnies from your soul. Hit that delete key! Try it with me! Ahhh! Feels better, doesn't it? > I really feel we should restrain ourselves to official communication on > this list, and create another list for semi-topical, or off-topic > conversation. Possibly limit the official list to Proposals, debate before > finalizing, poll results, and matters of public record > > Hmmm. This seems like more trouble than it's worth. As long as we keep the subject lines for official business descriptive of the content (e.g Re: Proposal 314), people should be able to make their own editorial decisions. From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 24 07:45:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 15:45:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 76319 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 15:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 15:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 15:45:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1OFjXk75026 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:45:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c09e78$b928d920$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <0307b4913201721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:44:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > Can you sell em. > I had envisioned a little market in debtor's voting rights, yes. > On 23 Feb 01, at 12:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > This oughta liven things up: > > > > Proposal 314: > > > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "wage > > slave." Wage slaves temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration > > of wage slavery. For each official day that a player is a wage slave, > > his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it > > reaches 0 again. At that point, the wage slave shall be a full > > participant again, and shall regain his voting right. Official days > > shall be calendar days. However, if a player's point total drops > > below zero after 5pm, the first day of wage slavery will be the > > following calendar day. > > > > At the moment a player becomes a wage slave, his voting right will be > > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting > > right being transferred to the highest bidder. Wage slaves may not > > participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the > > voting right until such time as the period of wage slavery ends. > > > > End Prop 314. > > > > I guess that I have to clean up the language some, but you get the > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 24 07:47:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 15:47:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 64880 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 15:47:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 15:47:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 15:46:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1OFksk75219 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:46:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c09e78$e90ecfa0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <00be01c09dad$966246e0$c3a811d0@computer> <0305d5208201721ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Questions regarding Steven's approaching DOOM Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:46:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > I am thinking midnight is the better cutoff than a specific time for > unspecified deadlines. > both the five and the two > > Did I miss it? Did you settle this? I see that it will become > irrelevant, but we might as well make it clear. > No we didn't settle it. Now that it IS irrelevant, someone might wait and make it an amendment - somebody that likes to write useful laws that also have a good chance of passing. ;) From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 24 07:52:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 15:52:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 58727 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 15:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 15:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 15:52:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1OFqok75557 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:52:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001901c09e79$bda7dc20$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <976e89+jfeo@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 314 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:52:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > In the time that I have I don't know if I can express everything that > is wrong with this proposal. While nowhere made explicit, I > operate with the understanding that voting rights are inalienable. > This proposal spits in the face of that idea. > Fritz, with all due respect: LIGHTEN UP. It's just a game, man. Do you get morally offended at Monopoly because it throws you in the clink without due process or a right to defend yourself? What about Monopoly's clearly inequitable (randomly enforced) taxation policy? Not only that, the whole game is kind of dehumanizing because it treats you as a dog, or a hat, or a stupid little racecar. > Of course, we don't need a bill of rights, we just have to > understand the nature of man. Slavery of any kind goes against > this idea. > If the word "slavery" offends you, I'm willing to rename the whole thing "debtor" and "debtor's prison". You know me, and I'm no fan of the real-life slavery. However, this is a game, and I thought that it might be fun and liven things up somewhat. > You couldn't offer me enough points to vote for this proposal. > Hmm. "Voting rights are sacred." "Voting rights are also for sale." Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) But, I probably wouldn't offer you or anyone else points to vote for it anyway. You see, the going rate in this group is *way* too high. The cost of paying for a vote far outweighs the benefit of getting that vote. > Try again, Pat. > From bernardo@c... Sat Feb 24 07:54:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 15:54:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 28692 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 15:54:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 15:54:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 15:54:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1OFspk75625 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:54:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c09e7a$05731240$baa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:54:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > I think this is an amendment to 305. It clearly contradicts "Each player is > an eligable voter," and arguably ;) "... must participate ..." > Hey, I'm willing to eat crow and pretend that this prop needs to amend both parts of 305, if you would then be willing to vote for it! > I don't really see the trouble with "Fritz's Law", there are no points > explicitly transferred to or from another player. > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I want to make it ok to transfer points and put yourself into debtor's prison. From eventi@n... Sat Feb 24 08:14:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 16:14:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 35393 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 16:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 17:15:20 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA00513 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:14:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c09e7c$e6a6d380$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <002001c09e7a$05731240$baa811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:14:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > I think this is an amendment to 305. It clearly contradicts "Each player > is > > an eligable voter," and arguably ;) "... must participate ..." > > > Hey, I'm willing to eat crow and pretend that this prop needs to amend both > parts of 305, if you would then be willing to vote for it! Once you get past the feathers, it's not so bad. > > > I don't really see the trouble with "Fritz's Law", there are no points > > explicitly transferred to or from another player. > > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I want to make it ok to transfer points > and put yourself into debtor's prison. That's a good protection against transfering a win to another player. SA could have transfered 200 points to you instead of bowing out gracefully, even though the points were not there to give. From eventi@n... Sat Feb 24 09:35:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Feb 2001 17:35:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 1323 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 17:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2001 17:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 18:36:35 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA04535 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:35:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002201c09e88$40c88d80$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <01a201c09e2a$ea20b140$126d1d40@v...> <000501c09e78$a527ffa0$baa811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] i'm going to turn dining back into eating. Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:36:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm replying to the rest of this, but for now... > > > I really feel we should restrain ourselves to official communication on > > this list, and create another list for semi-topical, or off-topic > > conversation. Possibly limit the official list to Proposals, debate > > before finalizing, poll results, and matters of public record > > > > > Hmmm. This seems like more trouble than it's worth. As long as we keep the > subject lines for official business descriptive of the content (e.g Re: > Proposal 314), people should be able to make their own editorial decisions. I'd like that... I was going to propose early on that each "Official" message carry an "Official" subject, like 301, 304, 311. From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 25 19:33:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 03:33:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 72226 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 03:33:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 03:33:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 03:33:03 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:51:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 21:43:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 21:43:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:43:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disgusted at the lack of disgust. Message-ID: <3A997C65.22974.129858@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01a201c09e2a$ea20b140$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... From: "Paul Kirkland" On 24 Feb 2001, at 1:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: At least for my part, my lack of expression of sorrow or disgust was a function of a slight sense of guilt for being responsible for many of the irrelevant (or vaguely related messages). My first thought was (120, yeah , but you would have been fine reading about three of them). This has two causes so far as I can tell. First, much of the truly ridiculous and irrelevant took place in a 'dead time' while there was no open proposal. Second, as you well know and have noted, messages build up quickly when there is a "conversation" going on in close to real time. (It gets a lot easier for all (ok, some) of us to get carried away when someone is responding. These of course look a lot different when reviewing them all together. As to a remedy, a separate list might be useful, but it might also constrain what is useful discussion. The problem is arguments related to proposals that run far afield; they can be both useful and distracting. Perhaps strict disciple in subject headings could help as well. Having agreed with the general disgust, I also feel the need to defend myself on the particulars on which I was implicated. I sent what I thought was a joke, and I assumed Fritz would send the ANWR letter directly to me.( ok, in retrospect I should have asked for it outside) The Locke thing was relevant to an issue that we will have to deal with at some point, not immediately relevant, but I came across the quote in what I was working on, and thought it both humorous and useful to those who have not spent an excess of time studying political philosophy. I am Paul, and you, Eugene, started that. (I think that discussion was largely a function of the dead time factor) I actually restrained myself from introducing that issue for the hell of it, precisely because it would be time-consuming, but not all that beneficial to the good rule-making. I agree that both more self-restraint and some form of clear indication of the distinction between the superfluous and the absolutely necessary are in order. While, I am not opposed to a separate list, it coudl really make a mess and make things even harder to follow if the thread of discussions carried between the two lists > I'm more than a little disgusted by today's turn of events, and > slightly > more so at the lack of disgust on our parts. We lost 1/6 of our > population today, with not so much as a goodbye, or even a cursory > acknowledgement. > The reason Steven left is the same reason the average person in > the > real world doesn't get involved in the political process. He said he > couldn't 'keep up' with what was going on. > I can relate to that. A large portion of the 100+ messages he had > yet > to read could have been safely disregarded. I'm as guilty as anyone > for the excess noise. And I'm lost, or just don't have time to follow > Locke's theory (I did flag it for later) on executive power, or Q&A > sessions on Alaskan environmental policy. If I wasn't Paul(and I'm > not,) I wouldn't have to be concerned with the long running patpaul > joke, either. > I really feel we should restrain ourselves to official > communication on > this list, and create another list for semi-topical, or off-topic > conversation. Possibly limit the official list to Proposals, debate > before finalizing, poll results, and matters of public record > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 25 20:05:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 04:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 27267 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 04:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 04:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 05:06:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:23:21 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 22:15:24 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 22:15:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:14:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] i'm going to turn dining back into eating. Message-ID: <3A9983E0.12073.22CE864@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002201c09e88$40c88d80$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... From: "Paul Kirkland" On 24 Feb 2001, at 12:36, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I'm replying to the rest of this, but for now... > > > > > > I really feel we should restrain ourselves to official > communication on > > > this list, and create another list for semi-topical, or off-topic > > > conversation. Possibly limit the official list to Proposals, > > > debate before finalizing, poll results, and matters of public > > > record > > > > > > > > Hmmm. This seems like more trouble than it's worth. As long as we > > keep > the > > subject lines for official business descriptive of the content (e.g > > Re: Proposal 314), people should be able to make their own editorial > decisions. > > I'd like that... I was going to propose early on that each "Official" > message carry an "Official" subject, like 301, 304, 311. Sounds like a much better idea than separating lists;(for example, where would this particular discussion belong?) Do you mean propose or Propose? It seems to me that convention is sufficient for this and making it a rule could get too messy to judge. Of course an discretionary enforcement power could handle this. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Sun Feb 25 20:22:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 04:22:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 72533 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 04:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 04:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 04:22:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:40:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 22:32:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 25 Feb 01 22:31:53 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:31:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Message-ID: <3A9987CF.27403.23C47C2@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002001c09e7a$05731240$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... From: "Paul Kirkland" On 24 Feb 2001, at 10:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > I think this is an amendment to 305. It clearly contradicts "Each > > player > is > > an eligable voter," and arguably ;) "... must participate ..." > > > Hey, I'm willing to eat crow and pretend that this prop needs to amend > both parts of 305, if you would then be willing to vote for it! > > > I don't really see the trouble with "Fritz's Law", there are no > > points explicitly transferred to or from another player. > > > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I want to make it ok to transfer > points and put yourself into debtor's prison. > So you can sell yourself into slavery. (a problem in theory) So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. It makes it possible to win the gae without doing anything that is good for the rules of the game. So far, most of the rules are designed to encourage (by awarding points) what is good for the whole, and we should continue that goal. Nietzsche critique: It produces a slave morality by granting slaves the power to award the greatest honors (points) and even chose a winner Locke critique: Negative points like slavery is giving away something you do not have. In all seriousness, this is highly problematic if you can give someone a load of points that have not been earned by anyone. It strikes me that this is part of a scheme to win by creating a paradox. If you could explain how such a rule would make for a better order in Nomic, I would appreciate it. So far, I see this proposal as a wasted opportunity. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 06:04:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 14:04:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 24456 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:04:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 14:04:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:04:05 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QE43k66460 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:04:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c09ffc$df63ab80$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <3A9987CF.27403.23C47C2@localhost> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:03:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" CLARIFICATION: I USED THE TERM "WAGE SLAVERY" BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS FUNNY. THIS LAW IS NOT REALLY SLAVERY BECAUSE THE CONDITION IS ONLY TEMPORARY. NOT SLAVERY. (No wonder why politicians play such games with language). ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > So you can sell yourself into slavery. (a problem in theory) (See above). > So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of > Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. ??? Have you guys (P + E) considered *why* someone would want to do this???? This problem strikes me as a theoretical possibility, but a practical impossibility. At any rate, I'm willing to amend the prop so that it will not override Fritz's provision at this point. > It makes it possible to win the gae without doing anything that is > good for the rules of the game. So far, most of the rules are > designed to encourage (by awarding points) what is good for the > whole, and we should continue that goal. > It may be your goal to create the perfect ruleset. My goal is to amuse myself, and to create rules which will make playing Nomic more interesting, and more of a challenge, strategically speaking. I could give a shit whether it looks like Utopia at the end or not. > Nietzsche critique: > It produces a slave morality by granting slaves the power to award > the greatest honors (points) and even chose a winner > Response to Nietzsche: a) it's not slavery. (see above) b) at any rate (not that it matters) slaves are smarter and cooler than masters, who are simple-minded thugs. c) the point of this law is *not* to allow "slaves" (but they're not slaves - see above) the "power to award the greatest honors" but to restrict what they do - did you actually read the law? Or did you just react to the term "slave" (but they're not slaves - see above) > Locke critique: > Negative points like slavery is giving away something you do not > have. Response to Locke: (It's not slavery - see above). Have you ever heard of credit cards, mortgages, bank loans, money equity loans, etc? > It strikes me that this is part of a scheme to win by creating a > paradox. > Why? > If you could explain how such a rule would make for a better order > in Nomic, I would appreciate it. > Because we need a provision for when people go negative. That provision should be something that is not a reward, but a punishment. Ultimately, this is a game, and it ought to be fun. An auction to buy people's voting rights, with all the uncertainty of whether or not you will get to use it, and for how many votes, sounds fun to me. True, it's not so fun to be the debtor, but hey, it's not so fun to be in jail in Monopoly. > So far, I see this proposal as a wasted opportunity. > Thanks for sharing. From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 26 06:25:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 14:25:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 80048 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 14:25:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:25:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.101] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2001 14:25:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:21 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 314 Message-ID: <97dp0h+si7t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <001901c09e79$bda7dc20$baa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2171 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Easy now, Pat. I'm light enough. It's just that this particular proposal, and your proposals in general, go against my sense of the right in a political order. Sure, this is just a game: I won't be getting my gun out to fight this particular bit of potential tyranny. However, in so far as this is meant to mimic a political order I think that I'll stand my principles (such as they are). As for Monopoly: I'm going to fuck up that little prick in the top hat next time I catch him. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > In the time that I have I don't know if I can express everything that > > is wrong with this proposal. While nowhere made explicit, I > > operate with the understanding that voting rights are inalienable. > > This proposal spits in the face of that idea. > > > Fritz, with all due respect: LIGHTEN UP. It's just a game, man. Do you > get morally offended at Monopoly because it throws you in the clink without > due process or a right to defend yourself? What about Monopoly's clearly > inequitable (randomly enforced) taxation policy? Not only that, the whole > game is kind of dehumanizing because it treats you as a dog, or a hat, or a > stupid little racecar. > > > Of course, we don't need a bill of rights, we just have to > > understand the nature of man. Slavery of any kind goes against > > this idea. > > > If the word "slavery" offends you, I'm willing to rename the whole thing > "debtor" and "debtor's prison". > > You know me, and I'm no fan of the real-life slavery. However, this is a > game, and I thought that it might be fun and liven things up somewhat. > > > You couldn't offer me enough points to vote for this proposal. > > > Hmm. "Voting rights are sacred." "Voting rights are also for sale." > > Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) But, I probably wouldn't offer you or anyone > else points to vote for it anyway. You see, the going rate in this group is > *way* too high. The cost of paying for a vote far outweighs the benefit of > getting that vote. > > > Try again, Pat. > > From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 26 06:36:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 14:36:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 6000 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 14:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:35:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2001 14:35:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:35:54 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Skim and Ignore Message-ID: <97dpka+o38k@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 171 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... As far as the volume of traffic: skim and ignore, skim and ignore. Any off-topic rambling headed up with "Paul Kirkland" usually gets deleated out of hand. ;-p -Fritz From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 07:18:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 15:18:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 6367 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 15:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:18:14 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA05916 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:18:13 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Disgusted at the lack of disgust. Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:20:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <3A997C65.22974.129858@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > On 24 Feb 2001, at 1:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > At least for my part, my lack of expression of sorrow or disgust > was a function of a slight sense of guilt for being responsible for > many of the irrelevant (or vaguely related messages). My first > thought was (120, yeah , but you would have been fine reading > about three of them). This has two causes so far as I can tell. > First, much of the truly ridiculous and irrelevant took place in a > 'dead time' while there was no open proposal. > Second, as you well know and have noted, messages build up > quickly when there is a "conversation" going on in close to real > time. (It gets a lot easier for all (ok, some) of us to get carried away > when someone is responding. These of course look a lot different > when reviewing them all together. I'm Guilty as charged... > > As to a remedy, a separate list might be useful, but it might also > constrain what is useful discussion. The problem is arguments > related to proposals that run far afield; they can be both useful and > distracting. > > Perhaps strict disciple in subject headings could help as well. > > Having agreed with the general disgust, I also feel the need to > defend myself on the particulars on which I was implicated. > I sent what I thought was a joke, and I assumed Fritz would send > the ANWR letter directly to me.( ok, in retrospect I should have > asked for it outside) > The Locke thing was relevant to an issue that we will have to deal > with at some point, not immediately relevant, but I came across the > quote in what I was working on, and thought it both humorous and > useful to those who have not spent an excess of time studying > political philosophy. I really hadn't intended to single you out, and I re-read the Locke thing; it's both interresting and relevant to the big-picture. I see that you got my point, unlike your Puppetmaster. > > I am Paul, and you, Eugene, started that. > (I think that discussion was largely a function of the dead time > factor) > I actually restrained myself from introducing that issue for the hell > of it, precisely because it would be time-consuming, but not all that > beneficial to the good rule-making. Definately true about the dead time factor. But like you said before, there's no 'dead time' if you can only read this once or twice a day. > > I agree that both more self-restraint and some form of clear > indication of the distinction between the superfluous and the > absolutely necessary are in order. > > While, I am not opposed to a separate list, it coudl really make a > mess and make things even harder to follow if the thread of > discussions carried between the two lists I'd like to propose (small p) that if something's clearly off topic, the subject be proceded by OT. This is especially usefull for an Off Topic reply to an on-topic message. My personal preference: Official: 1) Proposal 333 Reply: 2) Re: Proposal 333 OT Reply: 3) OT: the re-immergence of patpaul (was: Proposal 333) Off Topic: 4) OT: My nuts are on fire! (1,2,3,4...) Topical: 5) Why term limits suck, by The "Everyone But Fritz" Coalition Topical: 6) The need for term limits (Was: My nuts are on fire! (1,2,3,4...)) This system would allow the reader greater control just by "Skim & Ignore" I don't think this should be necessary to legislate, but if I can't think of anything better by my turn, I just may. --e From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 07:38:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 15:38:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 69007 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:38:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QFcbk75053 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:38:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c0a00a$1be3b980$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Disgusted at the life in the cave Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:37:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > On 24 Feb 2001, at 1:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I really hadn't intended to single you out, and I re-read the Locke thing; > it's both interresting and relevant to the big-picture. I see that you got > my point, unlike your Puppetmaster. > WTF? In the interest of avoiding my being the board's whipping boy, I'd like you to clarify this back-handed insult. I responded to your post with *agreement*. Seriously. From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 07:51:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 15:51:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 12368 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 15:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:52:31 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09448 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:51:26 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:53:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000d01c09ffc$df63ab80$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of > > Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. > > ??? Have you guys (P + E) considered *why* someone would want to > do this???? > This problem strikes me as a theoretical possibility, but a practical > impossibility. Why not? Suppose Steven left because everyone but Paul was calling him a ninny. SGA takes his toys and goes home, but before doing so, gives Paul the game. The better question is why "Fritz's Law" should be overridden. > > At any rate, I'm willing to amend the prop so that it will not override > Fritz's provision at this point. > > > It makes it possible to win the gae without doing anything that is > > good for the rules of the game. So far, most of the rules are > > designed to encourage (by awarding points) what is good for the > > whole, and we should continue that goal. > > > > It may be your goal to create the perfect ruleset. My goal is to amuse > myself, and to create rules which will make playing Nomic more > interesting, > and more of a challenge, strategically speaking. I could give a shit > whether it looks like Utopia at the end or not. > There's something to be said for fun... --e From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 07:54:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 15:54:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 2064 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 15:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:53:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QFrpk76397 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:53:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0a00c$36e36da0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:53:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of > > > Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. > > > > ??? Have you guys (P + E) considered *why* someone would want to > > do this???? > > This problem strikes me as a theoretical possibility, but a practical > > impossibility. > > Why not? Suppose Steven left because everyone but Paul was calling him a > ninny. SGA takes his toys and goes home, but before doing so, gives Paul > the game. The better question is why "Fritz's Law" should be overridden. > WTF???? You snipped the most important part!!!!!! I *conceded* that if it were a sticking point, then I would alter the law to *not amend* Fritz's law!!!!! From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 07:59:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 15:59:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 35688 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 15:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:59:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA10299 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:59:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: If this is how you treat your friends (Was: Disgusted...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:01:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000701c0a00a$1be3b980$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > On 24 Feb 2001, at 1:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > I really hadn't intended to single you out, and I re-read the > Locke thing; > > it's both interresting and relevant to the big-picture. I see that you > got > > my point, unlike your Puppetmaster. > > > WTF? In the interest of avoiding my being the board's whipping boy, I'd > like you to clarify this back-handed insult. I responded to your > post with > *agreement*. > > Seriously. You agreed in substance, true. You're getting to be a lot of fun to piss off. From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 08:02:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 16:02:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 31516 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:02:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QG2Nk77240 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:02:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c0a00d$682443c0$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] If this is how you treat your friends (Was: Disgusted...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:01:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > WTF? In the interest of avoiding my being the board's whipping boy, I'd > > like you to clarify this back-handed insult. I responded to your > > post with > > *agreement*. > > > > Seriously. > > You agreed in substance, true. You're getting to be a lot of fun to piss > off. > I'm not pissed, I'm just getting worried about the direction toward which Nomic is moving... From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 08:05:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 16:05:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 40486 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 16:05:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:05:23 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA10900 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:05:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: OT: Whoa Cowboy...(Was: Proposal 314) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:07:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001701c0a00c$36e36da0$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of > > > > Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. > > > > > > ??? Have you guys (P + E) considered *why* someone would want to > > > do this???? > > > This problem strikes me as a theoretical possibility, but a practical > > > impossibility. > > > > Why not? Suppose Steven left because everyone but Paul was calling him a > > ninny. SGA takes his toys and goes home, but before doing so, > gives Paul > > the game. The better question is why "Fritz's Law" should be > overridden. > > > WTF???? > > You snipped the most important part!!!!!! > > I *conceded* that if it were a sticking point, then I would alter > the law to > *not amend* Fritz's law!!!!! It wasn't snipped, it was left in, right below my comment. I did however fail to acknowledge that you had given in on it. Mea Culpa. Now count to 10, and breath before replying. From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 08:18:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 16:18:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 73421 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 16:18:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 17:19:46 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QGIek78961 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:18:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0a00f$ae6b6000$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: Whoa Cowboy...(Was: Proposal 314) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:17:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > WTF???? > > > > You snipped the most important part!!!!!! > > > > I *conceded* that if it were a sticking point, then I would alter > > the law to > > *not amend* Fritz's law!!!!! > > It wasn't snipped, it was left in, right below my comment. I did however > fail to acknowledge that you had given in on it. Mea Culpa. Now count to > 10, and breath before replying. > Again, I'm not angry. These posts just struck me as irrational. From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 08:21:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 16:21:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 72139 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 16:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:21:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA12631 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:21:32 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] If this is how you treat your friends (Was: Disgusted...) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:23:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002701c0a00d$682443c0$c3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > WTF? In the interest of avoiding my being the board's whipping boy, I'd > > > like you to clarify this back-handed insult. I responded to your > > > post with > > > *agreement*. > > > > > > Seriously. > > > > You agreed in substance, true. You're getting to be a lot of > fun to piss > > off. > > > I'm not pissed, I'm just getting worried about the direction toward which > Nomic is moving... The hostility? Due to my self righteousness or yours? --e From barturo@e... Mon Feb 26 10:48:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 18:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 47428 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 18:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:48:48 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27519 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:48:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4HH>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:43:04 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:42:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No mas tequila. No mas tequila... * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    No mas te= quila. No=20 mas tequila...


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530-- From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 10:50:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 18:50:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 54726 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 18:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:50:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA27733 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:50:35 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:52:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Benvenidos!!! -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:43 PM To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 11:23:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:23:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22903 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QJN8k97997 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:23:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0a029$72d467c0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:22:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and= "olla"=20 is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What = the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila&nbs= p;from un=20 olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:= 42=20 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla

    No mas = tequila. No=20 mas tequila...


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsub= scribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20-- From barturo@e... Mon Feb 26 11:31:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54658 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02045 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4HJ>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:34 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037329@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican... I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Classmates.com Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame, really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla

    No mas tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830-- From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 11:59:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 25732 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:59:19 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QJxGk01418 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:59:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005601c0a02e$7edfa660$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037329@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:58:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence over= Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to "take prece= dence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, was r= ather unfavorable. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican.= .. =20=20=20 =20=20=20 I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly = are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make= Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot= "? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    The biggest revisions to date are the remo= val of=20 the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from= =20 "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305")  and the change in language= to=20 debtors.
     
    Otherwise, you can take this morning's pos= t as the=20 up-to-date version.
     
    The initial reaction to the other=20 language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:= 25=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla<= /DIV>

    I=20 just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Span= ish or=20 Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read t= hru all=20 the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here a= bout=20 Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]=20 Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame= ,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello"= and=20 "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "W= hat the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking=20 tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 200= 1 1:42=20 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla<= /DIV>

    No = mas=20 tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubscr= ibe=20 from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-u= nsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0-- From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 12:04:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:04:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24976 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA05520 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:03:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Request for 2nd Draft... (Was: Olla) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:05:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <005601c0a02e$7edfa660$baa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, I was cool with it until now, but now I'm confused. If you get a minute, can we have a second draft? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:59 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican... I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    OK, I=20 was cool with it until now, but now I'm confused.  If you get a minute= , can=20 we have a second draft?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 = 2:59=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Olla

    The biggest revisions to date are the re= moval of=20 the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language fro= m=20 "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305")  and the change in langua= ge to=20 debtors.
     
    Otherwise, you can take this morning's p= ost as=20 the up-to-date version.
     
    The initial reaction to the other=20 language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 = 2:25=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Oll= a

    I=20 just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Sp= anish or=20 Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read= thru=20 all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to = here=20 about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes=20 on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= =20 Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a fla= me,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hell= o" and=20 "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking = "What the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking=20 tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    = From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail= )=20
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2= 001=20 1:42 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Oll= a

    N= o mas=20 tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubs= cribe=20 from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains= -unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280-- From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 12:12:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 54561 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QKCOk02720 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:12:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> To: Subject: New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:11:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 314: This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 26 12:16:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54324 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:16:13 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New Draft of Prop 314 Message-ID: <97edid+qhif@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1652 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... How many times do you imagine that a player's score will become negative? Are we just making a law for a situation that will never come into being? Why is this law neccesary? I still object to the very tone of the proposal. The very spirit of the game calls for voting rights to be inalienable, as I said before. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For > each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right. > Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 > hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day > of debt will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the > auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until > such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original > owner. > > End Prop 314. From barturo@e... Mon Feb 26 10:48:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 18:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 47428 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 18:48:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:48:48 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27519 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:48:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4HH>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:43:04 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:42:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No mas tequila. No mas tequila... * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    No mas te= quila. No=20 mas tequila...


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A023.F0E23530-- From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 10:50:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 18:50:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 54726 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 18:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:50:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA27733 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:50:35 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:52:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Benvenidos!!! -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:43 PM To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 11:23:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:23:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22903 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:23:15 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QJN8k97997 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:23:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0a029$72d467c0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037328@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:22:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and= "olla"=20 is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What = the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila&nbs= p;from un=20 olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:= 42=20 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla

    No mas = tequila. No=20 mas tequila...


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsub= scribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C09FFF.88A70D20-- From barturo@e... Mon Feb 26 11:31:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54658 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:31:19 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA02045 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K4HJ>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:34 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037329@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican... I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Classmates.com Click here for Classmates.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
    I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame, really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla

    No mas tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e....





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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A029.DE661830-- From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 11:59:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 25732 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 19:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 19:59:19 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QJxGk01418 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:59:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005601c0a02e$7edfa660$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037329@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:58:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence over= Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to "take prece= dence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, was r= ather unfavorable. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican.= .. =20=20=20 =20=20=20 I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly = are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make= Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot= "? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)=20 Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    The biggest revisions to date are the remo= val of=20 the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from= =20 "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305")  and the change in language= to=20 debtors.
     
    Otherwise, you can take this morning's pos= t as the=20 up-to-date version.
     
    The initial reaction to the other=20 language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:= 25=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla<= /DIV>

    I=20 just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Span= ish or=20 Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read t= hru all=20 the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here a= bout=20 Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]=20 Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a flame= ,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hello"= and=20 "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking "W= hat the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking=20 tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 200= 1 1:42=20 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla<= /DIV>

    No = mas=20 tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubscr= ibe=20 from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-u= nsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C0A004.94CAB5C0-- From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 12:04:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:04:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24976 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA05520 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:03:59 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Request for 2nd Draft... (Was: Olla) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:05:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <005601c0a02e$7edfa660$baa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, I was cool with it until now, but now I'm confused. If you get a minute, can we have a second draft? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:59 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:25 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Olla I just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Spanish or Mexican... I "kind of" like your proposal, I read thru all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to here about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes on... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Hee hee hee. This is not a flame, really. But did you not that "hola" is "hello" and "olla" is "large cooking pot"? I opened Outlook and I was thinking "What the fuck?" So, Hola, I hope you were drinking tequila from un olla... ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Olla No mas tequila. No mas tequila... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    OK, I=20 was cool with it until now, but now I'm confused.  If you get a minute= , can=20 we have a second draft?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 = 2:59=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Olla

    The biggest revisions to date are the re= moval of=20 the taking-precedence over Fritz's law (I have to change the language fro= m=20 "amend 305" to "take precedence over 305")  and the change in langua= ge to=20 debtors.
     
    Otherwise, you can take this morning's p= ost as=20 the up-to-date version.
     
    The initial reaction to the other=20 language, that I thought was funny, was rather unfavorable.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 = 2:25=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Oll= a

    I=20 just don't want anymore. And you were right I'm not Sp= anish or=20 Mexican...
     
     
     I "kind of" like your proposal, I read= thru=20 all the mess half heartedly are there any revisions? I'm very sorry to = here=20 about Steven. Who will make Iced Tea now? Life goes=20 on...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Monday, February 26, 2001 2:22 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= =20 Olla

    Hee hee hee.  This is not a fla= me,=20 really.
     
    But did you not that "hola" is "hell= o" and=20 "olla" is "large cooking pot"?
     
    I opened Outlook and I was thinking = "What the=20 fuck?"
     
    So,
     
    Hola, I hope you were drinking=20 tequila from un olla...
    ----- Original Message -----
    = From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail= )=20
    Sent: Monday, February 26, 2= 001=20 1:42 PM
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Oll= a

    N= o mas=20 tequila. No mas tequila...


    To unsubs= cribe=20 from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains= -unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C0A005.9E60D280-- From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 12:12:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 54561 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QKCOk02720 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:12:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> To: Subject: New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:11:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 314: This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. From f_hemker@h... Mon Feb 26 12:16:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 54324 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2001 20:16:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:16:13 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New Draft of Prop 314 Message-ID: <97edid+qhif@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1652 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... How many times do you imagine that a player's score will become negative? Are we just making a law for a situation that will never come into being? Why is this law neccesary? I still object to the very tone of the proposal. The very spirit of the game calls for voting rights to be inalienable, as I said before. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For > each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right. > Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 > hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day > of debt will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the > auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until > such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original > owner. > > End Prop 314. From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 12:21:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:21:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 77717 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:21:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA07386 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:21:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:23:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Thanks, and I'll try not to trash it too much. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 3:12 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 > > > > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their > debt. For > each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his > voting right. > Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 > hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, > the first day > of debt will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not > participate in the > auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting > right until > such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original > owner. > > End Prop 314. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 12:30:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:30:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 97599 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:30:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:30:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QKU1k04366 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:30:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009601c0a032$cb2b5ec0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <97dp0h+si7t@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Reply to Fritz with universal implication Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:29:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Fritz: I'm not going to ask you to break your principles, but I would like you to consider the following, which is sort of the reasoning behind this proposal: a) we need a provision for what happens when a player goes negative. b) a negative point total ought to be met with punishment c) the only punishment in use so far is removal of points, which is pointless in this case d) the only other options that I see are a) removal of the power to propose a law, which would eliminate a major source of revenue, and would only extend the players negativity; b) removal of the power to vote. None of this reasoning is iron-clad, since we do need to have less precision in politics than in geometry, but it does give you some idea of what I had in mind. In addition, I though that the market in voting rights would be interesting, since players would have to make judgements about how much to bid, based on the length of time. Is 30 points too much for a 20 day right? Depends on whether or not you can use the extra right to pass the law, and your own to vote in opposition. Don't forget, if I were to own your vote, and vote it in opposition, *you* would still get the 10 points! This is not abject slavery, but a wrinkle that might serve to make things more interesting. Notice, the reasoning was never a) create tyranny b) rule the world. I'm a little perturbed by your comment about my "proposals in general," since I think that you've somewhat misinterpreted both the CM and this law. (Or do you mean to say that you also hate the codification of the turn process and the "be fruitful and multiply" bills?) Oh yeah, glad to hear that you're light enough: I'm easy like Sunday morning. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:25 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 314 > Easy now, Pat. I'm light enough. It's just that this particular > proposal, and your proposals in general, go against my sense of > the right in a political order. Sure, this is just a game: I won't be > getting my gun out to fight this particular bit of potential tyranny. > However, in so far as this is meant to mimic a political order I > think that I'll stand my principles (such as they are). > > As for Monopoly: I'm going to fuck up that little prick in the top hat > next time I catch him. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > > > > In the time that I have I don't know if I can express everything > that > > > is wrong with this proposal. While nowhere made explicit, I > > > operate with the understanding that voting rights are > inalienable. > > > This proposal spits in the face of that idea. > > > > > Fritz, with all due respect: LIGHTEN UP. It's just a game, man. > Do you > > get morally offended at Monopoly because it throws you in the > clink without > > due process or a right to defend yourself? What about > Monopoly's clearly > > inequitable (randomly enforced) taxation policy? Not only that, > the whole > > game is kind of dehumanizing because it treats you as a dog, > or a hat, or a > > stupid little racecar. > > > > > Of course, we don't need a bill of rights, we just have to > > > understand the nature of man. Slavery of any kind goes > against > > > this idea. > > > > > If the word "slavery" offends you, I'm willing to rename the > whole thing > > "debtor" and "debtor's prison". > > > > You know me, and I'm no fan of the real-life slavery. However, > this is a > > game, and I thought that it might be fun and liven things up > somewhat. > > > > > You couldn't offer me enough points to vote for this proposal. > > > > > Hmm. "Voting rights are sacred." "Voting rights are also for > sale." > > > > Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) But, I probably wouldn't offer you or > anyone > > else points to vote for it anyway. You see, the going rate in this > group is > > *way* too high. The cost of paying for a vote far outweighs the > benefit of > > getting that vote. > > > > > Try again, Pat. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 12:37:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:37:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 4039 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:37:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:37:08 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QKb5k05046 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:37:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a801c0a033$c7f0d7c0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <97edid+qhif@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:36:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > How many times do you imagine that a player's score will > become negative? Are we just making a law for a situation that > will never come into being? Why is this law neccesary? > Hmm. Well, I seem to be headed in this direction. Seriously, as they stand, it does seem unlikely that this will happen soon. However, the same objection, by and large, could have been raised for many of the laws which have been proposed. Your law on transfers, in particular, was unnecessary since point transfers have always been legal (since they never were prohibited). Besides your transfer to Paul K, this law has laid dormant. So, I don't think that this is a very good argument against the law. As for the reasoning behind it, see my "reply to Fritz" post... > I still object to the very tone of the proposal. The very spirit of the > game calls for voting rights to be inalienable, as I said before. > Selling is a form of alienation - do you contend that the sale of votes is therefore also contrary to the spirit of the game? From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 12:40:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 23935 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:41:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09165 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:40:12 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:42:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <007a01c0a030$54bb2880$baa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. Why not amend 305? There's no power to "Each player..." with 314 acting as a big "EXCEPT" I really don't have any objection to it as is, but I never really _got_ 212. As per the previous discussion, it's intended to speed things like this, but it this could just as easily amend 305. Since there's not much left of it anyway, why no write it as such? > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their > debt. For > each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his > voting right. > Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 > hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, > the first day > of debt will be the following calendar day. It would suck to be scorekeeper during the penalty phase ;) > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not > participate in the > auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting > right until > such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original > owner. Who gets the procedes from the auction? They should be applied to the debt, but it's likely the debt won't get to be high enough so that would work... > > End Prop 314. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Feb 26 12:45:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:45:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 24022 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:45:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09795 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:45:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 (CORRECTION) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:47:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > Proposal 314: > > > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > Why not amend 305? There's no power to "Each player..." with 314 > acting as a > big "EXCEPT" > I really don't have any objection to it as is, but I never really > _got_ 212. > As per the previous discussion, it's intended to speed things > like this, but > it this could just as easily amend 305. Since there's not much left of it > anyway, why no write it as such? Should have said 211(precedence), not 212(judgements) From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 12:52:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:52:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 56177 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:52:46 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:10:47 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:02:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:02:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:02:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000d01c09ffc$df63ab80$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <034cc4710211a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 26 Feb 01, at 9:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > CLARIFICATION: I USED THE TERM "WAGE SLAVERY" BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT > IT WAS FUNNY. THIS LAW IS NOT REALLY SLAVERY BECAUSE THE CONDITION IS > ONLY TEMPORARY. > > NOT SLAVERY. > > (No wonder why politicians play such games with language). slaves are smarter and cooler people might quote you out of context. This is all ONLY a game with political language > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > So you can sell yourself into slavery. (a problem in theory) > > (See above). > See below, it is like slavery becuase it involves giving away more than you have a right to give. If you operate within the Nomic paradigm, it IS slavery. A player's entire person (within the game) is his voting power. To alienate this is to subordinate one's entire person to another (sounds like slavery to me) > > So you can transfer a million points to someone... The purpose of > > Fritz's limit keeps this from happening. > > ??? Have you guys (P + E) considered *why* someone would want to do > this???? This problem strikes me as a theoretical possibility, but a > practical impossibility. > It could be a more disruptive way of bowing out of the game. Why do you want to make it possible? It seems that the practical effect would be to permit large point transfer for huge negatives which would give the receiving payer the funds to buy that person as a slave. You may even hatch a scheme to maintain your vote through expression your opinion to your "master" and wreak havoc. > At any rate, I'm willing to amend the prop so that it will not > override Fritz's provision **************at this point.******************* > Do you mean until later, or you will do it right away > > It makes it possible to win the gae without doing anything that is > > good for the rules of the game. So far, most of the rules are > > designed to encourage (by awarding points) what is good for the > > whole, and we should continue that goal. > > > > It may be your goal to create the perfect ruleset. My goal is to > amuse myself, and to create rules which will make playing Nomic more > interesting, and more of a challenge, strategically speaking. I could > give a shit whether it looks like Utopia at the end or not. > I think the greater challenge is to make it most in player's self interest to make good "laws" > > Nietzsche critique: > > It produces a slave morality by granting slaves the power to award > > the greatest honors (points) and even chose a winner > > > > Response to Nietzsche: > a) it's not slavery. (see above) See above > b) at any rate (not that it matters) > > > Locke critique: > > Negative points like slavery is giving away something you do not > > have. > > Response to Locke: > (It's not slavery - see above). See above, it looks like slavery > > Have you ever heard of credit cards, mortgages, bank loans, money > equity loans, etc? > The banks have more political power, but not your voting right. > > It strikes me that this is part of a scheme to win by creating a > > paradox. > > > Why? I did not fully explore the problems, but if your interest is not making the best possible ruleset, which this proposal suggested to me, your purposes might be otherwise. > > > If you could explain how such a rule would make for a better order > > in Nomic, I would appreciate it. > > > Because we need a provision for when people go negative. But, there is one. You maintain your right to vote and propose rules and through those means gain future points. If you want to sell your vote if you are in the negative, that is also currently permitted That > provision should be something that is not a reward, but a punishment. > Ultimately, this is a game, and it ought to be fun. An auction to buy > people's voting rights, with all the uncertainty of whether or not you > will get to use it, and for how many votes, sounds fun to me. True, > it's not so fun to be the debtor, but hey, it's not so fun to be in > jail in Monopoly. > Later on Monopoly and Nomic (but I think this overused analogy does not simply work) > > This was not simply a reaction to the terms slavery, and let us remember, it was your own wise rhetorical choice to use the term slave. The only thing that immediately suggested to me was that you were not that concerned for getting this passed Ok 4 message have popped up while I was on this, I need or read them. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for > more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 12:53:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 20:53:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 56537 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:53:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 20:53:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:53:08 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QKr6k06658 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c201c0a036$04a87180$baa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:52:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > Proposal 314: > > > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > Why not amend 305? There's no power to "Each player..." with 314 acting as a > big "EXCEPT" > I really don't have any objection to it as is, but I never really _got_ 212. > As per the previous discussion, it's intended to speed things like this, but > it this could just as easily amend 305. Since there's not much left of it > anyway, why no write it as such? > I'll look over it after I get back from doing manly things at the gym. My initial impression was that there would be *a lot* left from 305, and that including those parts would make this law be two laws. But I'll double-check it when I get back. I'm replying now because I want to say something about your last comment... > > > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." > > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their > > debt. For > > each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase > > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the > > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his > > voting right. > > Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 > > hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. > > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, > > the first day > > of debt will be the following calendar day. > > It would suck to be scorekeeper during the penalty phase ;) > [Homer imitating Mr. T] I pity the fool! [Regular Homer voice] Hey... wait a second... D'oh! [Nelson]:HA HA! > > > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right > > being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not > > participate in the > > auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting > > right until > > such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original > > owner. > > Who gets the procedes from the auction? They should be applied to the debt, > but it's likely the debt won't get to be high enough so that would work... > I considered the same thing. I was going to give the proceeds to the debtor, but didn't for precisely the reason that you mentioned. I thought of giving it to the scorekeeper, but decided that wasn't such a great idea... ;) I did consider starting a fund, which another law might put to use, but I wasn't sure how people would react. Would people be opposed to a "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" [UHEAF] being created here? From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 13:05:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 21:05:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 4619 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 21:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 22:06:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:23:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:15:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:14:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:14:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Disgusted at the lack of disgust. Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <3A997C65.22974.129858@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <034351023211a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 26 Feb 01, at 10:20, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > On 24 Feb 2001, at 1:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > At least for my part, my lack of expression of sorrow or disgust was > > a function of a slight sense of guilt for being responsible for many > > of the irrelevant (or vaguely related messages). My first thought > > was (120, yeah , but you would have been fine reading about three of > > them). This has two causes so far as I can tell. First, much of the > > truly ridiculous and irrelevant took place in a 'dead time' while > > there was no open proposal. Second, as you well know and have noted, > > messages build up quickly when there is a "conversation" going on in > > close to real time. (It gets a lot easier for all (ok, some) of us > > to get carried away when someone is responding. These of course > > look a lot different when reviewing them all together. > > I'm Guilty as charged... > > > > > As to a remedy, a separate list might be useful, but it might also > > constrain what is useful discussion. The problem is arguments > > related to proposals that run far afield; they can be both useful > > and distracting. > > > > Perhaps strict disciple in subject headings could help as well. > > > > Having agreed with the general disgust, I also feel the need to > > defend myself on the particulars on which I was implicated. I sent > > what I thought was a joke, and I assumed Fritz would send the ANWR > > letter directly to me.( ok, in retrospect I should have asked for it > > outside) The Locke thing was relevant to an issue that we will have > > to deal with at some point, not immediately relevant, but I came > > across the quote in what I was working on, and thought it both > > humorous and useful to those who have not spent an excess of time > > studying political philosophy. > > I really hadn't intended to single you out, and I re-read the Locke > thing; it's both interresting and relevant to the big-picture. I see > that you got my point, unlike your Puppetmaster. > > > > > I am Paul, and you, Eugene, started that. > > (I think that discussion was largely a function of the dead time > > factor) I actually restrained myself from introducing that issue for > > the hell of it, precisely because it would be time-consuming, but > > not all that beneficial to the good rule-making. > > Definately true about the dead time factor. But like you said before, > there's no 'dead time' if you can only read this once or twice a day. Pat not Paul said that > > I agree that both more self-restraint and some form of clear > > indication of the distinction between the superfluous and the > > absolutely necessary are in order. > > > > While, I am not opposed to a separate list, it coudl really make a > > mess and make things even harder to follow if the thread of > > discussions carried between the two lists > > I'd like to propose (small p) that if something's clearly off topic, > the subject be proceded by OT. This is especially usefull for an Off > Topic reply to an on-topic message. > > My personal preference: > > Official: 1) Proposal 333 > Reply: 2) Re: Proposal 333 > OT Reply: 3) OT: the re-immergence of patpaul (was: Proposal 333) Off > Topic: 4) OT: My nuts are on fire! (1,2,3,4...) Topical: 5) Why term > limits suck, by The "Everyone But Fritz" Coalition Topical: 6) The > need for term limits (Was: My nuts are on fire! (1,2,3,4...)) > > This system would allow the reader greater control just by "Skim & > Ignore" > > I don't think this should be necessary to legislate, but if I can't > think of anything better by my turn, I just may. > --e only problem is the ambiguous things that are intended to be relevant to all, but not on the proposal What it this? ANWR was completely inappropriate, I admit Buymeabeer.com was funny but clearly off topic Patpaul was relevant if you were serious but off topic This disussion is very relevant, but off topic of the Proposal > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 13:41:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 21:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 99917 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 21:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 21:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 22:41:55 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:58:50 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:51:03 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 15:50:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:50:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: New Draft of Prop 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00a801c0a033$c7f0d7c0$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <035105058211a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 26 Feb 01, at 15:36, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > How many times do you imagine that a player's score will > > become negative? Are we just making a law for a situation that will > > never come into being? Why is this law neccesary? > > > Hmm. Well, I seem to be headed in this direction. > > Seriously, as they stand, it does seem unlikely that this will happen > soon. However, the same objection, by and large, could have been > raised for many of the laws which have been proposed. Your law on > transfers, in particular, was unnecessary since point transfers have > always been legal (since they never were prohibited). Besides your > transfer to Paul K, this law has laid dormant. So, I don't think that > this is a very good argument against the law. As for the reasoning > behind it, see my "reply to Fritz" post... > > > I still object to the very tone of the proposal. The very spirit of > > the game calls for voting rights to be inalienable, as I said > > before. > > > Selling is a form of alienation - do you contend that the sale of > votes is therefore also contrary to the spirit of the game? > I do BTW-I apologize for server slowness, messages written before the revision have just now appeared on the list. So we move from slavery to property requirements for voting rights. Not a huge improvement. As per early message there is a provision for being in the negative. You maintain your right to vote and if you use it well you will gain points. pk > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 13:52:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 21:52:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9395 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 21:52:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 21:52:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:52:43 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:10:44 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 16:02:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 16:02:30 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:02:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00c201c0a036$04a87180$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <034324410221a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 26 Feb 01, at 15:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Proposal 314: > > > > > > This proposal will take precedence over Rule 305 where necessary. > > > > Why not amend 305? There's no power to "Each player..." with 314 > > acting as > a > > big "EXCEPT" > > I really don't have any objection to it as is, but I never really > > _got_ > 212. > > As per the previous discussion, it's intended to speed things like > > this, > but > > it this could just as easily amend 305. Since there's not much left > > of it anyway, why no write it as such? > > > > I'll look over it after I get back from doing manly things at the gym. > My initial impression was that there would be *a lot* left from 305, > and that including those parts would make this law be two laws. But > I'll double-check it when I get back. I'm replying now because I want > to say something about your last comment... > > > > > > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a > "debtor." > > > Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their > > > debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point > > > total will > increase > > > by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, > > > the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his > > > voting right. Official days shall be determined by counting > > > calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which > > > are currently in practice in > Nomic. > > > However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the > > > first day of debt will be the following calendar day. > > > > It would suck to be scorekeeper during the penalty phase ;) > > > [Homer imitating Mr. T] I pity the fool! [Regular Homer voice] Hey... > wait a second... D'oh! [Nelson]:HA HA! > > > > > > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will > > > be > > > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid > > > to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the > > > voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may > > > not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain > > > the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt > > > ends, when it will revert to the > original > > > owner. > > > > Who gets the procedes from the auction? They should be applied to > > the > debt, > > but it's likely the debt won't get to be high enough so that would > > work... > > > I considered the same thing. I was going to give the proceeds to the > debtor, but didn't for precisely the reason that you mentioned. But couldn't the indebted player sell his vote directly to avoid servitude under the current laws. If I find my self suddenly five points in debt, it makes a whole lot more sense to sell my vote for somewhere between 5 and 10 points to the player whose turn (it is always worth that to the proposer, for either gaining the vote against points, or to get it passed) it is for only one turn rather then being enslaved for five. If this is possible why would we need this rule, or would you prohibit such a scenario? > thought of giving it to the scorekeeper, but decided that wasn't such > a great idea... ;) > > I did consider starting a fund, which another law might put to use, > but I wasn't sure how people would react. > > Would people be opposed to a "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance > Fund" [UHEAF] being created here? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 14:23:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 22:23:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 90880 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 22:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 22:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 22:23:57 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QMNsk16043 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:23:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c0a042$b3ba7180$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <034324410221a21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:23:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 26 Feb 01, at 15:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will > > > > be > > > > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid > > > > to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the > > > > voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may > > > > not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain > > > > the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt > > > > ends, when it will revert to the > > original > > > > owner. > > > > > But couldn't the indebted player sell his vote directly to avoid > servitude under the current laws. > "Under the current laws"? Yes. > If I find my self suddenly five points in debt, it makes a whole lot > more sense to sell my vote for somewhere between 5 and 10 > points to the player whose turn (it is always worth that to the > proposer, for either gaining the vote against points, or to get it > passed) it is for only one turn rather then being enslaved for five. > If this is possible why would we need this rule, or would you > prohibit such a scenario? > A) "At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community..." Of course it would be impossible to sell your vote at that point, since you wouldn't have it anymore. I considered and rejected that possibility. This law already takes it into account. B) If you check the law again, at -5 points, you are a debtor for only 5 *days*, not turns. From bernardo@c... Mon Feb 26 14:41:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 22:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 62235 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 22:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 22:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 23:42:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1QMffk17782 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:41:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003301c0a045$3109fe60$c3a811d0@computer> To: References: <034cc4710211a21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Reply to Paulism Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:40:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 26 Feb 01, at 9:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > So you can sell yourself into slavery. (a problem in theory) > > (See above). > > > See below, it is like slavery becuase it involves giving away more > than you have a right to give. > I'm a little hazy on where this "right" is coming from... > If you operate within the Nomic paradigm, it IS slavery. A player's > entire person (within the game) is his voting power. > Not so. Your entire person within the game is a composite of posts - and your proposals - and not just your voting power. I don't intend to stop debtors from participating in the discussion, nor are they prohibited from arguing for or against a law - AND NEITHER ARE THEY PROHIBITED FROM PROPOSING LAWS. They simply cannot vote. > To alienate this is to subordinate one's entire person to another > (sounds like slavery to me) > Your statement is a definition of slavery, but it does not accurately reflect the content of my law. > > At any rate, I'm willing to amend the prop so that it will not > > override Fritz's provision > > **************at this point.******************* > > > Do you mean until later, or you will do it right away > The prop has been changed to reflect this. I meant that I will not, of course, pledge to not attempt to amend this law in the future, if I choose to do so. But that's an issue for another day. > > > It makes it possible to win the gae without doing anything that is > > > good for the rules of the game. So far, most of the rules are > > > designed to encourage (by awarding points) what is good for the > > > whole, and we should continue that goal. > > > > It may be your goal to create the perfect ruleset. My goal is to > > amuse myself, and to create rules which will make playing Nomic more > > interesting, and more of a challenge, strategically speaking. I could > > give a shit whether it looks like Utopia at the end or not. > > > I think the greater challenge is to make it most in player's self > interest to make good "laws" > So have fun with it! (Honestly, I'm not busting your balls, here. You play with your idea of what's fun, and I'll play with mine...) > > > > > If you could explain how such a rule would make for a better order > > > in Nomic, I would appreciate it. > > > > > Because we need a provision for when people go negative. > But, there is one. You maintain your right to vote and propose > rules and through those means gain future points. > That's not a provision. There's no difference between that and the situation of having positive points. > Later on Monopoly and Nomic (but I think this overused analogy > does not simply work) > It sometimes doesn't work. In Monopoly you play by the rules, in Nomic you play with the rules. But, they're both still games, and in that limited sense in which I used it, the analogy does work. > > > > This was not simply a reaction to the terms slavery, and let us > remember, it was your own wise rhetorical choice to use the term > slave. > "Wise rhetorical choice" - give me a break! This proposal went from "vague idea that I'm kicking around" to active proposal in as much time as it took to type it. I had to rush it to press because of the circumstances under which it became my turn. If you turn to the original prop, you will see that I explicitly acknowledge the circumstantial nature of it, and disavow the choice of language. From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 15:07:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Feb 2001 23:07:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 98852 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 23:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2001 23:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 23:07:03 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:25:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 17:17:17 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Feb 01 17:16:52 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:16:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New Draft of Prop 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001501c0a042$b3ba7180$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0334e0425231a21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 26 Feb 01, at 17:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 26 Feb 01, at 15:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right > > > > > will be > > > > > transferred to the community, at which point other players may > > > > > bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with > > > > > the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. > > > > > Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest > > > > > bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time > > > > > as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the > > > original > > > > > owner. > > > > > > > > But couldn't the indebted player sell his vote directly to avoid > > servitude under the current laws. > > > "Under the current laws"? Yes. > > > If I find my self suddenly five points in debt, it makes a whole lot > > more sense to sell my vote for somewhere between 5 and 10 points to > > the player whose turn (it is always worth that to the proposer, for > > either gaining the vote against points, or to get it passed) it is > > for only one turn rather then being enslaved for five. If this is > > possible why would we need this rule, or would you prohibit such a > > scenario? > > > > A) "At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community..." Of course it would be impossible to > sell your vote at that point, since you wouldn't have it anymore. I > considered and rejected that possibility. This law already takes it > into account. So explain exactly what happens if go -5 and before anything else happens, an abolitionist like Fritz. transfer me 6 points. > > B) If you check the law again, at -5 points, you are a debtor for only > 5 *days*, not turns. > Sorry to mistate, but this is all the more reason that it would be in the interest of the buyer to buy my VOTE from me rather than my time which may be canceled out by stall tactics. Another scenario A poll opens, the 'owner" (ease of discussion only ) casts the vote of the debter, his servitude ends, but the poll has not closed, does he have the right to vote? if the poll opens while his is in servitude and the master has not voted, who has the right to vote. Another issue: If the debtor does not lose the right to propose when he loses the right to vote, does this proposal not contradict 313. Or is the master obligated to vote for his servant't proposal? If he does not, who is punished? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 23:03:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 07:03:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 20597 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 07:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 07:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 07:03:29 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:21:26 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 01:13:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 01:13:33 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:13:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: CR: Monopoly and Nomic Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003301c0a045$3109fe60$c3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <035382621071b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" CR (cloak room) a new designation for posts about the game, perhaps relevant to the bill at hand, but not immediatley addressed to the current proposal I am preturbed by the continual comparisons between Nomic and monopoly. The aim in a game of monopoly is to make as much money as you can; it is separated from real the world context of the human costs of leaving everyone else bankrupt in order purify that goal. There is absolutely no reason that one would ever think of the game of monopoly as a constsruct for behavior in a similar, but rals situation. The object of Nomic, unlike monopoly is unspecified; its aim is to be defined in the playing. The object is to score points, and so far as I can tell the original construct by Suber attempts to tie gaining points to making good laws. This need not remain the aim. The game can aim at producing anything we want it to, for we can tie the awards (points) to anything at all. Therefore, the game does not tell us its object, we must determine it. It thus demands that we draw on experiences outside the construct of the game in order to choose our goals. Thus, while "playing' the game does not REQUIRE it, the experiment it attempts to conduct seems to ask players to at times act as if it were a real political sending and thus to take the consequences of the actions, penalties, etc. more seriously than they in fact are (while within the construct of the game) It is a game that asks us to play politics, and thus I think to make pretend a bit. To play is to play at something, to imitate some more serious activity. Now this may not ultimately work, but it of course will not work if we do not attempt to adopt the construct for the sake of the experiment. After all, what are the points? What is the value of scoring points or winning this game? I will admit that this does not meaning estabishing the best practicalbe ruleset must be our aim. Experimenting with possiblities one would not want to experiment with in life is another use for playing games. I apologize for this lengthy response on a very general theme, but you have only read this far if you were at least vaguely interested in my thoughts. Paul Kirkland From pkirklan@e... Mon Feb 26 23:11:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 07:11:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 57686 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 07:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 07:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 07:11:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:29:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 01:21:39 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 01:21:10 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:21:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005601c0a02e$7edfa660$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0372f2029071b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" This right here is the solution to the noise problem, title it "summary" and if anyone wants to object to the interpretation, go to it Ok an olla of Tequilla might be a better solution On 26 Feb 01, at 14:58, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence > over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to > "take precedence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. > > Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. > > The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, > was rather unfavorable. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 04:16:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 12:16:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 55917 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 12:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 12:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 13:18:02 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA03965 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:16:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004301c0a0b7$41e59c40$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <0372f2029071b21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:17:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" YES!!! I was looking for a way to say that myself. Combined with voluntary subject mangling, this would work quite well. Now we have to draw up some sort of introductory text to inform the player that it's OK to ask for a summary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kirkland" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Olla > This right here is the solution to the noise problem, title it > "summary" and if anyone wants to object to the interpretation, go > to it > > Ok an olla of Tequilla might be a better solution > > > On 26 Feb 01, at 14:58, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > The biggest revisions to date are the removal of the taking-precedence > > over Fritz's law (I have to change the language from "amend 305" to > > "take precedence over 305") and the change in language to debtors. > > > > Otherwise, you can take this morning's post as the up-to-date version. > > > > The initial reaction to the other language, that I thought was funny, > > was rather unfavorable. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 06:54:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 14:54:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10185 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 14:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 14:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 15:55:06 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RErxk89870 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:54:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c0a0cd$03eedee0$c2a811d0@computer> To: Subject: New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:53:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 07:03:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 68130 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RF3Nk90692 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:03:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401c0a0ce$53d2b980$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <0334e0425231a21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Second reply to the Paulist approach Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:02:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 26 Feb 01, at 17:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > On 26 Feb 01, at 15:52, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > So explain exactly what happens if go -5 and before anything else > happens, an abolitionist like Fritz. transfer me 6 points. > Then you become positive again. You get your voting right back. Fritz has made a friend, but has lost 6 points. Fritz may also have made an enemy, depending upon whether or not anyone has bought your voting right yet, or not. I'm not sure why that's an issue. That's not a problem in the law, but a particular strategy of play. (Also, check the new version of the Prop, just sent out). > > > > B) If you check the law again, at -5 points, you are a debtor for only > > 5 *days*, not turns. > > > Sorry to mistate, but this is all the more reason that it would be in > the interest of the buyer to buy my VOTE from me rather than my > time which may be canceled out by stall tactics. > Hmm. How would you stall? Since you cannot vote, the proposal writer will probably ignore your requests to wait, since you cannot threaten a "no" vote. Your only hope would be to convince through reason. > Another scenario > > A poll opens, the 'owner" (ease of discussion only ) casts the vote > of the debter, his servitude ends, but the poll has not closed, does > he have the right to vote? > if the poll opens while his is in servitude and the master has not > voted, who has the right to vote. > These are good questions. I handled them in the newest version of my Prop. > > Another issue: If the debtor does not lose the right to propose when > he loses the right to vote, does this proposal not contradict 313. > Yes, this proposal does not contradict 313. From barturo@e... Tue Feb 27 07:04:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 15:04:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 37630 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 15:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:05:34 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15397 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:04:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K42F>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:58:38 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037331@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:58:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A0CD.BFAFE750" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A0CD.BFAFE750 Content-Type: text/plain You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www.newaydirect.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A0CD.BFAFE750 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    You=20 may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so = after=20 an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players poin= ts=20 go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 9:53=20 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will amend= Rule=20 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall= =20 retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score becomes negative = is=20 hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, = for=20 the duration of their debt.  For
    each official day that a player = is a=20 debtor, his point total will increase
    by 1 point, until such time as i= t=20 reaches 0 again.  At that point, the
    debtor shall be a full=20 participant again, and shall regain his voting right,
    unless a new pro= posal=20 has already been offered, in which case the debtor
    shall regain his vo= ting=20 right at the close of that proposal.  Official days
    shall be=20 determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using= =20 those days which are currently in practice in Nomic.  However, if=20 a
    player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of de= bt=20 will
    be the following calendar day.

    At the moment a player beco= mes a=20 debtor, his voting right will be
    transferred to the community, at whic= h=20 point other players may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-list auction w= ill=20 be created, with the voting right
    being transferred to the highest=20 bidder.  Debtors may not participate in the
    auctions.  The=20 highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until
    such time= as=20 the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop 314.






    <= BR>To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A0CD.BFAFE750-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 07:09:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 15:09:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 84179 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:09:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 15:09:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 15:09:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RF9Uk91122 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:09:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004a01c0a0cf$2e9d2960$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037331@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0A0A5.448838C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0A0A5.448838C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add th= at. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other t= han to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I = forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avo= idance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing a= law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question = - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? = If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning = players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, vo= ting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor.= " Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt.= For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will incre= ase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting r= ight, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debto= r shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official = days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods= ), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if= a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt = will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate i= n the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right u= ntil such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the origin= al owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0A0A5.448838C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Actually that's a good question. Yeah, poi= nts as=20 currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about founding = a fund=20 that has no present use other than to collect these funds.  Nobody=20 responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  I'd like to c= all=20 it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF).  Because= it=20 sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff.&nb= sp; Also,=20 one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - on= e can=20 ask the same question - where do penalized points go?
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9= :58=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New!= =20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You=20 may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If s= o=20 after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning play= ers=20 points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will ame= nd=20 Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under normal play= =20 shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score becomes=20 negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors temporarily lose v= oting=20 rights, for the duration of their debt.  For
    each official day = that=20 a player is a debtor, his point total will increase
    by 1 point, unti= l=20 such time as it reaches 0 again.  At that point, the
    debtor sha= ll be=20 a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right,
    unless = a new=20 proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor
    shall re= gain=20 his voting right at the close of that proposal.  Official days
    = shall=20 be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    = using=20 those days which are currently in practice in Nomic.  However, if= =20 a
    player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of = debt=20 will
    be the following calendar day.

    At the moment a player be= comes=20 a debtor, his voting right will be
    transferred to the community, at = which=20 point other players may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-list auction= will=20 be created, with the voting right
    being transferred to the highest=20 bidder.  Debtors may not participate in the
    auctions.  The= =20 highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until
    such ti= me as=20 the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from this g= roup,=20 send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C0A0A5.448838C0-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 07:11:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 15:11:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 43418 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 15:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:12:29 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-09.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.194]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RFBLk91237 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:11:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005a01c0a0cf$70cf92a0$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037331@BATMAN> <004a01c0a0cf$2e9d2960$c2a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:10:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A0A5.86B300E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A0A5.86B300E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Prior laws? (What an idiot) I mean future laws. Like a basketball player= who muffs the pass, I was thinking about where I was going - the prior law= s that created punishment - before I got there... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add = that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other= than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) = I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy A= voidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing= a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same questio= n - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency= ? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winnin= g players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, = voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debto= r." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their deb= t. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will inc= rease by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, th= e debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting= right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the deb= tor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Officia= l days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour perio= ds), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, = if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of deb= t will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting rig= ht being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate= in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right= until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the orig= inal owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confi= dential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of = this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e= ngineeredsecurity.com.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A0A5.86B300E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Prior laws?  (What an idiot)  I = mean=20 future laws.  Like a basketball player who muffs the pass, I was think= ing=20 about where I was going - the prior laws that created punishment - before I= got=20 there...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Pa= trick D.=20 Bernardo
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1= 0:08=20 AM
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New!= =20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Actually that's a good question. Yeah, p= oints as=20 currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about foundin= g a fund=20 that has no present use other than to collect these funds.  Nobody=20 responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  I'd like to= call=20 it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF).  Becau= se it=20 sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff.&= nbsp;=20 Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UH= EAF -=20 one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go?
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 9:58=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New= !=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this but are = we=20 using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someon= e=20 wins where does the winning players points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogrou= ps.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will a= mend=20 Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under normal pl= ay=20 shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score becomes= =20 negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors temporarily lose= =20 voting rights, for the duration of their debt.  For
    each offi= cial=20 day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase
    by 1= =20 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again.  At that point,=20 the
    debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his= =20 voting right,
    unless a new proposal has already been offered, in w= hich=20 case the debtor
    shall regain his voting right at the close of that= =20 proposal.  Official days
    shall be determined by counting cale= ndar=20 days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using those days which are curren= tly=20 in practice in Nomic.  However, if a
    player's point total dro= ps=20 below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will
    be the following= =20 calendar day.

    At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his vot= ing=20 right will be
    transferred to the community, at which point other=20 players may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-list auction will be=20 created, with the voting right
    being transferred to the highest=20 bidder.  Debtors may not participate in the
    auctions.  T= he=20 highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until
    such = time=20 as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from this= =20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C0A0A5.86B300E0-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 09:53:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 17:53:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 51198 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 17:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 17:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 17:53:14 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02890 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:53:13 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:55:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C0A0BC.837C4870" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <004a01c0a0cf$2e9d2960$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C0A0BC.837C4870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt. The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Although I like the idea of "Entropy Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C0A0BC.837C4870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Once=20 again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes fr= om=20 the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned a= fter=20 the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt.=20
     
    The=20 formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by this= =20 proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope.  Alth= ough=20 I like the idea of "Entropy
     
    Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off swit= ch in=20 outlook...
     
     
     -----Original Message-----
    Fr= om:=20 Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday,= =20 February 27, 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Actually that's a good question. Yeah, p= oints as=20 currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about foundin= g a fund=20 that has no present use other than to collect these funds.  Nobody=20 responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  I'd like to= call=20 it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF).  Becau= se it=20 sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff.&= nbsp;=20 Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UH= EAF -=20 one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go?
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 9:58=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New= !=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this but are = we=20 using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someon= e=20 wins where does the winning players points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogrou= ps.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will a= mend=20 Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under normal pl= ay=20 shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score becomes= =20 negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors temporarily lose= =20 voting rights, for the duration of their debt.  For
    each offi= cial=20 day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase
    by 1= =20 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again.  At that point,=20 the
    debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his= =20 voting right,
    unless a new proposal has already been offered, in w= hich=20 case the debtor
    shall regain his voting right at the close of that= =20 proposal.  Official days
    shall be determined by counting cale= ndar=20 days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using those days which are curren= tly=20 in practice in Nomic.  However, if a
    player's point total dro= ps=20 below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will
    be the following= =20 calendar day.

    At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his vot= ing=20 right will be
    transferred to the community, at which point other=20 players may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-list auction will be=20 created, with the voting right
    being transferred to the highest=20 bidder.  Debtors may not participate in the
    auctions.  T= he=20 highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until
    such = time=20 as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from this= =20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C0A0BC.837C4870-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 10:24:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 18:24:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90850 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:23:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 18:23:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:23:47 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05793 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:23:45 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A0C0.C78C0060" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A0C0.C78C0060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once again, Open Mouth, Insert Foot... I like the idea of "Entropy Avoidance" http://www.math.washington.edu/~hillman/Entropy/infcode.html -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt. The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Although I like the idea of "Entropy Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A0C0.C78C0060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Once=20 again, Open Mouth, Insert Foot...
    <correction>I like the idea of "Entropy=20 Avoidance"</correction>
     
    http:= //www.math.washington.edu/~hillman/Entropy/infcode.html
       
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Once=20 again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes = from=20 the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned= =20 after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt.=20
     
    The=20 formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by th= is=20 proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. =20 Although I like the idea of "Entropy
     
    Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off sw= itch in=20 outlook...
     
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= =20 10:09 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= e:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Actually that's a good question. Yeah,= points=20 as currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about found= ing a=20 fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds.  N= obody=20 responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  I'd like = to=20 call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). = ;=20 Because it sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff= . =20 Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the = UHEAF=20 - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go?<= /DIV>
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoog= roups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 20= 01 9:58=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] N= ew!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this but ar= e we=20 using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and some= one=20 wins where does the winning players points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bern= ardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...<= /A>]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will= =20 amend Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under n= ormal=20 play shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score= =20 becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors tempor= arily=20 lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt.  For
    ea= ch=20 official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will=20 increase
    by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. = ; At=20 that point, the
    debtor shall be a full participant again, and sh= all=20 regain his voting right,
    unless a new proposal has already been= =20 offered, in which case the debtor
    shall regain his voting right = at=20 the close of that proposal.  Official days
    shall be determi= ned=20 by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using thos= e=20 days which are currently in practice in Nomic.  However, if=20 a
    player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day= of=20 debt will
    be the following calendar day.

    At the moment a= =20 player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be
    transferred to= the=20 community, at which point other players may bid to
    purchase it.&= nbsp;=20 An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right
    being= =20 transferred to the highest bidder.  Debtors may not participat= e in=20 the
    auctions.  The highest bidder shall retain the purchase= d=20 voting right until
    such time as the period of debt ends, when it= will=20 revert to the original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from th= is=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.



    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C0A0C0.C78C0060-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 10:42:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 18:42:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 50374 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 18:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 19:42:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RIfPk11325 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:41:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0a0ec$ca156660$c2a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:40:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0A0C2.DFE80BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0A0C2.DFE80BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you require it, I guess that= I'll have to do it.=20=20 This will tend to make the period of debt much shorter, and would tend to m= ake the votes worth much, much less. Essentially, it'll mean that the pers= on is only out one vote - no matter how much they go down. (The interestin= g, paradoxical situation is that the larger the debt, the more it will get = in the auction - based on speculation for votes - but the rise in prices wi= ll actually mean the shorter the time of debt, and hence the less worthwile= is the purchase.) My idea was to make the strategy more straightforward -= 20 points would get you a certain 20 days worth of the voting right, but w= hat is uncertain is how many votes you actually get. Again, if your change= is added, in most situations, it'll only be one vote. The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop rule = because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future use. Oth= erwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - determining a place f= or the points to go. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the proc= edes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights = returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt= .=20 =20=20=20 The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required b= y this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Althoug= h I like the idea of "Entropy=20 =20=20=20 Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... =20=20=20 =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should ad= d that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use oth= er than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly= ) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy= Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writi= ng a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same quest= ion - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as curren= cy? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winn= ing players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain= , voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "deb= tor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their d= ebt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will i= ncrease by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, = the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voti= ng right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the d= ebtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Offic= ial days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour per= iods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However= , if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of d= ebt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid = to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting r= ight being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participa= te in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting rig= ht until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the or= iginal owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service= .=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this con= fidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying o= f this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster= @engineeredsecurity.com.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0A0C2.DFE80BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    This will tend to make the period of debt = much=20 shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much less. =20 Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one vote - no matter ho= w=20 much they go down.  (The interesting, paradoxical situation is that th= e=20 larger the debt, the more it will get in the auction - based on speculation= for=20 votes - but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the time of d= ebt,=20 and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.)  My idea was to make th= e=20 strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a certain 20 days w= orth=20 of the voting right, but what is uncertain is how many votes you actually=20 get.  Again, if your change is added, in most situations, it'll only b= e one=20 vote.
     
    The creation of the fund appears to bend t= he rules=20 on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibil= ity=20 for future use.  Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auctio= n -=20 determining a place for the points to go.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    = I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you re= quire=20 it, I guess that I'll have to do it. 
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1= 2:55=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New!= =20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Once=20 again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes = from=20 the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned= =20 after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt.=20
     
    The=20 formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by th= is=20 proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. =20 Although I like the idea of "Entropy
     
    Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off sw= itch in=20 outlook...
     
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= =20 10:09 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: R= e:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Actually that's a good question. Yeah,= points=20 as currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about found= ing a=20 fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds.  N= obody=20 responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  I'd like = to=20 call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). = ;=20 Because it sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff= . =20 Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the = UHEAF=20 - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go?<= /DIV>
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 20= 01 9:58=20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] N= ew!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this but ar= e we=20 using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and some= one=20 wins where does the winning players points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bern= ardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...<= /A>]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal will= =20 amend Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under n= ormal=20 play shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player whose score= =20 becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtors tempor= arily=20 lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt.  For
    ea= ch=20 official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will=20 increase
    by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. = ; At=20 that point, the
    debtor shall be a full participant again, and sh= all=20 regain his voting right,
    unless a new proposal has already been= =20 offered, in which case the debtor
    shall regain his voting right = at=20 the close of that proposal.  Official days
    shall be determi= ned=20 by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using thos= e=20 days which are currently in practice in Nomic.  However, if=20 a
    player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day= of=20 debt will
    be the following calendar day.

    At the moment a= =20 player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be
    transferred to= the=20 community, at which point other players may bid to
    purchase it.&= nbsp;=20 An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right
    being= =20 transferred to the highest bidder.  Debtors may not participat= e in=20 the
    auctions.  The highest bidder shall retain the purchase= d=20 voting right until
    such time as the period of debt ends, when it= will=20 revert to the original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from th= is=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not t= he=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notifi= ed=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipi= ent,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0A0C2.DFE80BC0-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 10:47:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 18:47:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 47268 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 18:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:47:10 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA08037 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:47:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:49:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A0C4.0C6CE070" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001701c0a0ec$ca156660$c2a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A0C4.0C6CE070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but slowly... 1 point per day!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:41 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you require it, I guess that I'll have to do it. This will tend to make the period of debt much shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much less. Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one vote - no matter how much they go down. (The interesting, paradoxical situation is that the larger the debt, the more it will get in the auction - based on speculation for votes - but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the time of debt, and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.) My idea was to make the strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a certain 20 days worth of the voting right, but what is uncertain is how many votes you actually get. Again, if your change is added, in most situations, it'll only be one vote. The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future use. Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - determining a place for the points to go. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt. The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Although I like the idea of "Entropy Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A0C4.0C6CE070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but slowly= ... 1=20 point per day!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 1:41=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks=20 go

    I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you = require=20 it, I guess that I'll have to do it. 
     
    This will tend to make the period of deb= t much=20 shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much less. =20 Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one vote - no matter = how=20 much they go down.  (The interesting, paradoxical situation is that = the=20 larger the debt, the more it will get in the auction - based on speculati= on=20 for votes - but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the tim= e of=20 debt, and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.)  My idea was to= make=20 the strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a certain 20 = days=20 worth of the voting right, but what is uncertain is how many votes you=20 actually get.  Again, if your change is added, in most situations, i= t'll=20 only be one vote.
     
    The creation of the fund appears to bend= the=20 rules on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out its= =20 possibility for future use.  Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature= of=20 the auction - determining a place for the points to go.
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 12:55=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New= !=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense f= or the=20 procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting= =20 rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him = out=20 of debt.
     
    The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes= =20 required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal"= =20 envelope.  Although I like the idea of "Entropy
     
    Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off = switch=20 in outlook...
     
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 20= 01=20 10:09 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:= Re:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Actually that's a good question. Yea= h, points=20 as currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about fou= nding a=20 fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds. = =20 Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it.  = I'd=20 like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund"=20 (UHEAF).  Because it sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stu= ff. =20 Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in th= e=20 UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points=20 go?
    ----- Original Message -----
    = From:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yaho= ogroups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, = 2001=20 9:58 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= New!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this but = are we=20 using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and so= meone=20 wins where does the winning players points go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Be= rnardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...= m]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoo= groups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal wi= ll=20 amend Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and under= =20 normal play shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player who= se=20 score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debtor= s=20 temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt.&n= bsp;=20 For
    each official day that a player is a debtor, his point tot= al=20 will increase
    by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0=20 again.  At that point, the
    debtor shall be a full partici= pant=20 again, and shall regain his voting right,
    unless a new proposa= l has=20 already been offered, in which case the debtor
    shall regain hi= s=20 voting right at the close of that proposal.  Official=20 days
    shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 2= 4=20 hour periods),
    using those days which are currently in practic= e in=20 Nomic.  However, if a
    player's point total drops below ze= ro=20 after 5pm, the first day of debt will
    be the following calenda= r=20 day.

    At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting r= ight=20 will be
    transferred to the community, at which point other pla= yers=20 may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-list auction will be creat= ed,=20 with the voting right
    being transferred to the highest=20 bidder.  Debtors may not participate in the
    auctions.&nbs= p;=20 The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right=20 until
    such time as the period of debt ends, when it will rever= t to=20 the original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    To unsubscribe fro= m this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.



    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not= the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby noti= fied=20 that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly=20 prohibited.

    If you are not the specified reci= pient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe from= this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A0C4.0C6CE070-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 11:10:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 19:10:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 83648 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 19:10:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:29:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 13:20:29 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 13:20:00 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:20:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001701c0a0ec$ca156660$c2a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <036dc0529191b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Feb 01, at 13:40, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you require it, I guess > that I'll have to do it. > > This will tend to make the period of debt much shorter, and would tend > to make the votes worth much, much less. Essentially, it'll mean that > the person is only out one vote - no matter how much they go down. > (The interesting, paradoxical situation is that the larger the debt, > the more it will get in the auction - based on speculation for votes - > but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the time of > debt, and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.) My idea was to > make the strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a > certain 20 days worth of the voting right, but what is uncertain is > how many votes you actually get. Again, if your change is added, in > most situations, it'll only be one vote. Although I assume you have already written me off, this raises my question even more sharply If you make E's change, how would the situation differ from direct vote-buying. Only in the situation of extremely large debt woudl there be any difference. But, without the negative possibility. This law would actually prevent extremely large debt. So far you could only lose points for losing a proposal. So the lowest you could go would be - 10, as soon as you were in the negative, you would lose the right to vote and to lose any more points. Unless I guess, no one really wants the vote very much, and so the auction does not go very high at all What happens if no one bids? How does the auction close? Who opens the auction? who closes the auction? Is it a blind auction? Is there a limit to number of bids. Is there a limit to increments of bidding (fractional points)? Is there an automatic opening bid? > > The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop > rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future > use. Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - > determining a place for the points to go. Just my legal note on this: It seems to a proposal unto itself to create a fund. But, it seems legal to say use language transfered to the group as a whole, and leave the need for the creation of such a fund, and its possilbe uses, to another. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 > > > Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the > procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his > voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough > to get him out of debt. > > The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes > required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" > envelope. Although I like the idea of "Entropy > > Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 > > > Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I > should add that. > > I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present > use other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or > con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the > "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it > sounds so cool... > > Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider > writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask > the same question - where do penalized points go? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of > 314 > > > You may have already addressed this but are we using points as > currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins > where does the winning players points go? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 > > > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will amend Rule 305. > > All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall > retain, voting rights. > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a > "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the > duration of their debt. For each official day that a player > is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until > such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor > shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting > right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in > which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the > close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by > counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those > days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a > player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day > of debt will be the following calendar day. > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will > be transferred to the community, at which point other players > may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, > with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. > Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest > bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time > as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the > original owner. > > End Prop 314. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of > this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any > distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly > prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 12:42:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 20:42:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 16238 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 20:41:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 20:41:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 20:41:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RKfPk22857 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:41:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c0a0fd$8c7c4ba0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <036dc0529191b21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Paul regarding his reply to my reply to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:40:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > > Although I assume you have already written me off, Hmm. I've replied to everything that you've posted, and I've even incorporated some of your objections into the law. > this raises my question even more sharply > If you make E's change, how would the situation differ from direct > vote-buying. > I think that you're being willfully obtuse on this point. Selling: Me: Paul, would you like to buy my vote? Paul: Ok, I'll give you 5 points for it. Me: Sounds great! Debt: I go negative, my vote is offered for auction... What's your point? > Only in the situation of extremely large debt woudl there be any > difference. But, without the negative possibility. This law would > actually prevent extremely large debt. So far you could only lose > points for losing a proposal. So the lowest you could go would be - > 10, as soon as you were in the negative, you would lose the right > to vote and to lose any more points. > So far... But if the scores are more dynamic at some point, that would not hold. Again big whoop. What's the problem? > Unless I guess, no one really wants the vote very much, and so the > auction does not go very high at all > > What happens if no one bids? > I've been thinking about this, and I think my decision is that if nobody buys it, the vote lies dormant. That should make it worth *somebody's* while to at least bid 1 point for it. > How does the auction close? Who opens the auction? who closes > the auction? > Is it a blind auction? Is there a limit to number of bids. Is there a > limit to increments of bidding (fractional points)? Is there an > automatic opening bid? I thought about that too, and decided that since nobody is close to going negative, I could leave auctions undefined at this point. Hopefully someone will write a law defining them. But there is no reason why auctions couldn't be another law. I pledge that if it hasn't happened by next time, my next law will define auctions. > > > > The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop > > rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future > > use. Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - > > determining a place for the points to go. > > Just my legal note on this: It seems to a proposal unto itself to > create a fund. But, it seems legal to say use language transfered > to the group as a whole, and leave the need for the creation of such > a fund, and its possilbe uses, to another. > It may *seem* that way, but as I argued before, if it is created solely for the intention of where does the auction $ go, then it is relevant, and a defensible part of the prop. From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 12:42:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 20:42:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 45954 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 20:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 20:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 21:43:01 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RKfmk22884 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:41:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c0a0fd$9a767b40$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:41:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0A0D3.B059E980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0A0D3.B059E980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Tony! I'll right it up... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missi= ng socks go SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but slowly... 1 p= oint per day!!!=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:41 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and mis= sing socks go I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you require it, I guess = that I'll have to do it.=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 This will tend to make the period of debt much shorter, and would tend = to make the votes worth much, much less. Essentially, it'll mean that the = person is only out one vote - no matter how much they go down. (The intere= sting, paradoxical situation is that the larger the debt, the more it will = get in the auction - based on speculation for votes - but the rise in price= s will actually mean the shorter the time of debt, and hence the less worth= wile is the purchase.) My idea was to make the strategy more straightforwa= rd - 20 points would get you a certain 20 days worth of the voting right, b= ut what is uncertain is how many votes you actually get. Again, if your ch= ange is added, in most situations, it'll only be one vote. The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop r= ule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future use. = Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - determining a pla= ce for the points to go. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the = procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rig= hts returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of = debt.=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes requir= ed by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Alt= hough I like the idea of "Entropy=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I shoul= d add that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use= other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (asham= edly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Ent= ropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider w= riting a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same q= uestion - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 31= 4 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as cu= rrency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the = winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall re= tain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a = "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of the= ir debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total wi= ll increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that poi= nt, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his = voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case t= he debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. O= fficial days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour= periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. How= ever, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day = of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will = be transferred to the community, at which point other players may = bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voti= ng right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not parti= cipate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting= right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to th= e original owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Ser= vice.=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Servi= ce.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this= confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyi= ng of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webma= ster@e....=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service= .=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0A0D3.B059E980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Sounds grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Tony! = I'll=20 right it up...
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Eugene Ventimi= glia=20
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com <= /DIV>
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1= :49=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Respo= nse to=20 Eugene on where points and missing socks go

    SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but slow= ly... 1=20 point per day!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo= [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:41 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing sock= s=20 go

    I'm not happy at all about this change, but if yo= u require=20 it, I guess that I'll have to do it. 
     
    This will tend to make the period of d= ebt much=20 shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much less. = =20 Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one vote - no matte= r how=20 much they go down.  (The interesting, paradoxical situation is tha= t the=20 larger the debt, the more it will get in the auction - based on specula= tion=20 for votes - but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the t= ime=20 of debt, and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.)  My idea w= as to=20 make the strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a cert= ain=20 20 days worth of the voting right, but what is uncertain is how many vo= tes=20 you actually get.  Again, if your change is added, in most situati= ons,=20 it'll only be one vote.
     
    The creation of the fund appears to be= nd the=20 rules on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out it= s=20 possibility for future use.  Otherwise, it does seem to be a featu= re of=20 the auction - determining a place for the points to go.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 20= 01=20 12:55 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] N= ew!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense= for=20 the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his= =20 voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to= get=20 him out of debt.
     
    The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other chang= es=20 required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposa= l"=20 envelope.  Although I like the idea of "Entropy
    =  
    = Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML of= f=20 switch in outlook...
    =  
    =  
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, = 2001=20 10:09 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Actually that's a good question. Y= eah,=20 points as currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about f= ounding a=20 fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds.&nbs= p;=20 Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. = ; I'd=20 like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund"=20 (UHEAF).  Because it sounds so cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for=20 stuff.  Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalti= es=20 end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do pena= lized=20 points go?
    ----- Original Message ----- Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.= com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27= , 2001=20 9:58 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrain= s] New!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this bu= t are=20 we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place a= nd=20 someone wins where does the winning players points=20 go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D.= =20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@cyberwar.= com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yah= oogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposal = will=20 amend Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, and und= er=20 normal play shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any player w= hose=20 score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor."
    Debt= ors=20 temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their=20 debt.  For
    each official day that a player is a debtor,= his=20 point total will increase
    by 1 point, until such time as it= =20 reaches 0 again.  At that point, the
    debtor shall be a = full=20 participant again, and shall regain his voting right,
    unless= a=20 new proposal has already been offered, in which case the=20 debtor
    shall regain his voting right at the close of that=20 proposal.  Official days
    shall be determined by countin= g=20 calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods),
    using those days w= hich=20 are currently in practice in Nomic.  However, if a
    play= er's=20 point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt=20 will
    be the following calendar day.

    At the moment a p= layer=20 becomes a debtor, his voting right will be
    transferred to th= e=20 community, at which point other players may bid to
    purchase= =20 it.  An on-list auction will be created, with the voting=20 right
    being transferred to the highest bidder.  Debtors= may=20 not participate in the
    auctions.  The highest bidder sh= all=20 retain the purchased voting right until
    such time as the per= iod=20 of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe fro= m=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    To unsubscribe f= rom=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is n= ot the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby=20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is= =20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified re= cipient,=20 please notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To unsubscribe fr= om this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.



    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0A0D3.B059E980-- From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 12:50:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 20:50:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 99408 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 20:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 20:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 21:51:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA20037 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:50:07 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:52:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0075_01C0A0D5.39DBACB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001d01c0a0fd$9a767b40$bfa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C0A0D5.39DBACB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See? Collaboration GOOD!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:41 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go Sounds grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Tony! I'll right it up... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but slowly... 1 point per day!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:41 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks go I'm not happy at all about this change, but if you require it, I guess that I'll have to do it. This will tend to make the period of debt much shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much less. Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one vote - no matter how much they go down. (The interesting, paradoxical situation is that the larger the debt, the more it will get in the auction - based on speculation for votes - but the rise in prices will actually mean the shorter the time of debt, and hence the less worthwile is the purchase.) My idea was to make the strategy more straightforward - 20 points would get you a certain 20 days worth of the voting right, but what is uncertain is how many votes you actually get. Again, if your change is added, in most situations, it'll only be one vote. The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility for future use. Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the auction - determining a place for the points to go. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sense for the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have his voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough to get him out of debt. The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other changes required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single proposal" envelope. Although I like the idea of "Entropy Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML off switch in outlook... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:09 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Actually that's a good question. Yeah, points as currency. I should add that. I sent out a "feeler" about founding a fund that has no present use other than to collect these funds. Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot about it. I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF). Because it sounds so cool... Prior laws can use the UHEAF for stuff. Also, one might consider writing a law so that penalties end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do penalized points go? ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 You may have already addressed this but are we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place and someone wins where does the winning players points go? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314 Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, voting rights. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C0A0D5.39DBACB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    See?=20 Collaboration GOOD!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 3:41=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing socks=20 go

    Sounds grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat, Tony!&nbs= p; I'll=20 right it up...
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001= 1:49=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Res= ponse=20 to Eugene on where points and missing socks go

    SHIT!!! I got it... The procedes go back to the debtor, but sl= owly...=20 1 point per day!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernar= do [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:41 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogrou= ps.com
    Subject:=20 Re: [scatterbrains] Response to Eugene on where points and missing so= cks=20 go

    <= /FONT>I'm not happy at all about this change, but if = you=20 require it, I guess that I'll have to do it. 
     
    This will tend to make the period of= debt=20 much shorter, and would tend to make the votes worth much, much=20 less.  Essentially, it'll mean that the person is only out one v= ote -=20 no matter how much they go down.  (The interesting, paradoxical= =20 situation is that the larger the debt, the more it will get in the au= ction=20 - based on speculation for votes - but the rise in prices will actual= ly=20 mean the shorter the time of debt, and hence the less worthwile is th= e=20 purchase.)  My idea was to make the strategy more straightforwar= d -=20 20 points would get you a certain 20 days worth of the voting right, = but=20 what is uncertain is how many votes you actually get.  Again, if= your=20 change is added, in most situations, it'll only be one vote.
     
    The creation of the fund appears to = bend the=20 rules on the double prop rule because I am specifically pointing out = its=20 possibility for future use.  Otherwise, it does seem to be a fea= ture=20 of the auction - determining a place for the points to go.
    ----- Original Message -----
    = From:=20 Eugene=20 Ventimiglia
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogr= oups.com=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, = 2001=20 12:55 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= New!=20 Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Once again, you had me 100% up to this point. It makes sen= se for=20 the procedes from the auction to go to the debtor, he would have hi= s=20 voting rights returned after the vote, if the procedes were enough = to=20 get him out of debt.
     
    The formation of a UHEAF Fund in addition to the other cha= nges=20 required by this proposal is perhaps pushing the "single propo= sal"=20 envelope.  Although I like the idea of "Entropy=20
     
    Note to self: Tell bobby about the HTML = off=20 switch in outlook...
     
     
     -----Original=20 Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27= ,=20 2001 10:09 AM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains= ]=20 New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    Actually that's a good question.= Yeah,=20 points as currency.  I should add that.
     
    I sent out a "feeler" about = ;founding=20 a fund that has no present use other than to collect these=20 funds.  Nobody responded pro or con, so (ashamedly) I forgot= =20 about it.  I'd like to call it the "Universal Homogenous Ent= ropy=20 Avoidance Fund" (UHEAF).  Because it sounds so=20 cool...
     
    Prior laws can use the UHEAF for= =20 stuff.  Also, one might consider writing a law so that penal= ties=20 end up in the UHEAF - one can ask the same question - where do=20 penalized points go?
    ----- Original Message ----- From:=20 Arturo, Bob =
    To: 'scatterbrains@= yahoogroups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, February = 27,=20 2001 9:58 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbra= ins]=20 New! Improved! Now More! Draft of 314

    You may have already addressed this = but are=20 we using points as currency? If so after an auction takes place= and=20 someone wins where does the winning players points=20 go?
    -----Original Message-----
    From:= =20 Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@cyberwa= r.com]
    Sent:=20 Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:53 AM
    To: scatterbrains@y= ahoogroups.com
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] New! Improved! Now More! Draft of=20 314

    Proposal 314:

    This proposa= l=20 will amend Rule 305.

    All players begin the game with, = and=20 under normal play shall retain, voting
    rights.

    Any= =20 player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a=20 "debtor."
    Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the= =20 duration of their debt.  For
    each official day that a= =20 player is a debtor, his point total will increase
    by 1 poi= nt,=20 until such time as it reaches 0 again.  At that point,=20 the
    debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall re= gain=20 his voting right,
    unless a new proposal has already been=20 offered, in which case the debtor
    shall regain his voting = right=20 at the close of that proposal.  Official days
    shall b= e=20 determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour=20 periods),
    using those days which are currently in practice= in=20 Nomic.  However, if a
    player's point total drops belo= w=20 zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will
    be the followin= g=20 calendar day.

    At the moment a player becomes a debtor,= his=20 voting right will be
    transferred to the community, at whic= h=20 point other players may bid to
    purchase it.  An on-li= st=20 auction will be created, with the voting right
    being=20 transferred to the highest bidder.  Debtors may not=20 participate in the
    auctions.  The highest bidder shal= l=20 retain the purchased voting right until
    such time as the p= eriod=20 of debt ends, when it will revert to the=20 original
    owner.

    End Prop=20 314.







    To unsubscribe f= rom=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    =
    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    To unsubscribe= from=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com


    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is= not the=20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby= =20 notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission = is=20 strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified= =20 recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e...= .=20





    To unsubscribe = from=20 this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.


    To unsubscribe fro= m this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.



    To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    = Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01C0A0D5.39DBACB0-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 13:23:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 21:23:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 84411 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 21:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 21:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 21:22:47 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:41:35 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 15:33:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 15:32:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:32:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] question of Proposal 314 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001101c0a0fd$8c7c4ba0$bfa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <038143541211b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Feb 01, at 15:40, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > Although I assume you have already written me off, > > Hmm. I've replied to everything that you've posted, and I've even > incorporated some of your objections into the law. I only meant that it sounded like you would not need my vote, and so my clout was diminishing. I did write questions because I expected a response. Relax, this is not an attempt to soil your reputation, or that of your proposal > > > this raises my question even more sharply > > If you make E's change, how would the situation differ from direct > > vote-buying. > > > I think that you're being willfully obtuse on this point. Selling: > Me: Paul, would you like to buy my vote? Paul: Ok, I'll give you 5 > points for it. Me: Sounds great! Debt: I go negative, my vote is > offered for auction... > > What's your point? OR Selling: I have 4 points and a denying proposal, I strike a deal to sell my vote to eugene (because its his turn) as soon as I go negative. My prop loses, before you (the SK) even tally the score E transfers 6 points to me. Done. I never go into debt, or I am relieved of debt. Debt: Same scenario. I go -6. After the SK scores, the auction opens, E wants to by my vote, but knows he might be outbid and have to take that risk. It may cost him many more points, he may not win the auction. It certainly will take more time that could be spend crafting and supporting his proposal. Seems to me the first is the better option, and it is currently allowed. I guess that means I still think this is unnecessary, but if it also leaves some questions about the process and its restraints. What if the debtor's points rise above 0, while the auction is open by a transfer or some future point-gaining method? (by the way fix language to O or above there are half points, I could go from -.5 to .5 and never technically be freed. ) > > > Only in the situation of extremely large debt woudl there be any > > difference. But, without the negative possibility. This law would > > actually prevent extremely large debt. So far you could only lose > > points for losing a proposal. So the lowest you could go would be - > > 10, as soon as you were in the negative, you would lose the right to > > vote and to lose any more points. > > > So far... But if the scores are more dynamic at some point, that would > not hold. Again big whoop. What's the problem? > > > Unless I guess, no one really wants the vote very much, and so the > > auction does not go very high at all > > > > What happens if no one bids? > > > I've been thinking about this, and I think my decision is that if > nobody buys it, the vote lies dormant. That should make it worth > *somebody's* while to at least bid 1 point for it. and the debtor simply sits with negative points until his turn comes, I thought this was the big problem that needed to be addressed. > > > How does the auction close? Who opens the auction? who closes > > the auction? > > Is it a blind auction? Is there a limit to number of bids. Is > > there a limit to increments of bidding (fractional points)? Is > > there an automatic opening bid? > > I thought about that too, and decided that since nobody is close to > going negative, I could leave auctions undefined at this point. > Hopefully someone will write a law defining them. But there is no > reason why auctions couldn't be another law. > > I pledge that if it hasn't happened by next time, my next law will > define auctions. > > > > > > > The creation of the fund appears to bend the rules on the double > > > prop rule because I am specifically pointing out its possibility > > > for future use. Otherwise, it does seem to be a feature of the > > > auction - determining a place for the points to go. > > > > Just my legal note on this: It seems to a proposal unto itself to > > create a fund. But, it seems legal to say use language transfered > > to the group as a whole, and leave the need for the creation of such > > a fund, and its possilbe uses, to another. > > > It may *seem* that way, Sorry to not assume sole authority for interpreting the law but as I argued before, if it is created > solely for the intention of where does the auction $ go, then it is > relevant, and a defensible part of the prop. Why not save this until the auction rule forr the same damn reason (what if we all promise to keep the damn name) You never addressed the 313 issue. If the debtor's turn came up and his (creditor?) used his vote to vote agaisnt the proposal. OR would the vote-holder (the creditor) be obligated to vote for the proposal and penalized if he did not? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 13:56:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 21:56:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20373 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 21:55:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 21:55:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.111] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2001 21:55:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:55:22 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: rule 207 Message-ID: <97h7oa+2gt6@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 134 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... In all of the debate on 305, this never came up But, doesn't P's law contradict 207 "Each player *always* has *exactly* one vote" From f_hemker@h... Tue Feb 27 14:14:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:14:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19220 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.9.161) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 23:15:34 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:49:33 -0800 Received: from 63.82.115.205 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:49:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.82.115.205] To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:49:33 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2001 21:49:33.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B89D470:01C0A107] From: "Frederick Hemker" ----Original Message Follows---- Tuesday, February 27, 07:20:30 AM PT Hey fmhemker, Welcome to Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball. This is to confirm that you've created the private league United States Baseball League and the team Washington Senators in that league. To allow other managers to join your league, send them the League ID# and Password. In your case, the ID# is 7693 and the Password is qwerty. You have chosen for your league to take part in an Autopick draft. Until the draft takes place, you (and only you) can change the type of draft by using the Change Draft Type option found among your Commissioner Tools, which can be reached from your League Overview page. Your league's draft can begin as soon as everyone is ready, but must be conducted by May 15, 2001. Simply use the Change Draft Status option found among your Commissioner Tools to tell us that you are ready, and we'll notify you by email as soon as the draft is complete. We have set default player rankings for you, but suggest you personalize them to your liking. All league members can begin pre-ranking players as soon as they want by simply going to the Fantasy Baseball home page and clicking on their team name. Thanks for joining. see ya in the dugout. Good luck. --Fantasy Baseball Commissioner http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/baseball _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 14:18:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:18:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 94309 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 23:18:56 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:36:43 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 16:28:09 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 16:27:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:27:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0365e4336221b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Take the whole Yankees team On 27 Feb 01, at 16:49, Frederick Hemker wrote: > ----Original Message Follows---- > Tuesday, February 27, 07:20:30 AM PT > > Hey fmhemker, > > Welcome to Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball. > > This is to confirm that you've created the private league United > States Baseball League and the team Washington Senators in that > league. > > To allow other managers to join your league, send them the > League ID# and Password. In your case, the ID# is 7693 and the > Password is qwerty. > > You have chosen for your league to take part in an Autopick > draft. Until the draft takes place, you (and only you) can > change the type of draft by using the Change Draft Type option > found among your Commissioner Tools, which can be reached from > your League Overview page. > > Your league's draft can begin as soon as everyone is ready, but > must be conducted by May 15, 2001. Simply use the Change Draft > Status option found among your Commissioner Tools to tell us > that you are ready, and we'll notify you by email as soon as > the draft is complete. > > We have set default player rankings for you, but suggest you > personalize them to your liking. All league members can begin > pre-ranking players as soon as they want by simply going to the > Fantasy Baseball home page and clicking on their team name. > > Thanks for joining. see ya in the dugout. > > Good luck. > > --Fantasy Baseball Commissioner > http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/baseball > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get > your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 14:24:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:24:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 9908 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 22:24:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28962 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:24:49 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" So this is how it starts, right Bob??? > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball > From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 14:36:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:36:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 32849 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 22:35:42 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:54:33 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 16:45:59 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 16:45:30 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:45:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Off Topic truth in labeling mardi gras and the eternal return of the same Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <037e23354221b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I left some substantive questions. Reply to those instead. while off topic Happy Mardi Gras P.S. I am a little concerned about the spirit of Mardi Gras and the eternal return. I think they are precisely opposed, Do today what you plan to repent for tomorrow. Or it is the attempt to reconcile Dionysus and the Crucified. See EH Destiny 9. On 27 Feb 01, at 17:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > So this is how it starts, right Bob??? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frederick Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:50 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy > > Baseball > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 14:55:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:55:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 80050 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 23:56:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RMtCk36165 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:55:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009f01c0a110$3d4bcb60$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:54:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Beware everybody. Fritz cheats. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Hemker To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball > ----Original Message Follows---- > Tuesday, February 27, 07:20:30 AM PT > > Hey fmhemker, > > Welcome to Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball. > > This is to confirm that you've created the private league United > States Baseball League and the team Washington Senators in that > league. > > To allow other managers to join your league, send them the > League ID# and Password. In your case, the ID# is 7693 and the > Password is qwerty. > > You have chosen for your league to take part in an Autopick > draft. Until the draft takes place, you (and only you) can > change the type of draft by using the Change Draft Type option > found among your Commissioner Tools, which can be reached from > your League Overview page. > > Your league's draft can begin as soon as everyone is ready, but > must be conducted by May 15, 2001. Simply use the Change Draft > Status option found among your Commissioner Tools to tell us > that you are ready, and we'll notify you by email as soon as > the draft is complete. > > We have set default player rankings for you, but suggest you > personalize them to your liking. All league members can begin > pre-ranking players as soon as they want by simply going to the > Fantasy Baseball home page and clicking on their team name. > > Thanks for joining. see ya in the dugout. > > Good luck. > > --Fantasy Baseball Commissioner > http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/baseball > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 14:55:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 22:55:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 56872 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 22:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 22:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 23:55:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1RMsPk36097 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:54:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008f01c0a110$20f13040$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <97h7oa+2gt6@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] rule 207 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:53:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > In all of the debate on 305, this never came up > > But, doesn't P's law contradict 207 > > "Each player *always* has *exactly* one vote" > Yes it does! Good thing that 207 is mutable. ;) You should have remained quiet about this. If my law passed, by 211, it would have been moot - just what you wanted! From pkirklan@e... Tue Feb 27 15:14:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Feb 2001 23:14:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 67312 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 23:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2001 23:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 00:15:25 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:33:11 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 17:24:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Feb 01 17:24:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:24:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] rule 207 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <008f01c0a110$20f13040$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0371c1133231b21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Feb 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > In all of the debate on 305, this never came up > > > > But, doesn't P's law contradict 207 > > > > "Each player *always* has *exactly* one vote" > > > Yes it does! Good thing that 207 is mutable. ;) > > You should have remained quiet about this. If my law passed, by 211, > it would have been moot - just what you wanted! > I considered that, but it will probably go unused anyway. I am coming to see that it is vaguely directed toward the good of the whole by providing an incentive against letting oneself go negative. (although I think the lack of points is already enough incentive) If this passes, it will serve a regulating function more than anything else, another reason not to propose bad laws. I guess I could have strategically pretended to come around and make suggestions, but I am more interest in good laws, and strategy for the sake of the good, not for its own sake. How many laws can you amend with one proposal? and are you ever going to answer my other questions? paul > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Tue Feb 27 16:35:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 00:35:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 56050 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 00:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 00:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 00:35:55 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07494 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:35:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1MR7K424>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:30:08 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037334@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Basebal l Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:30:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A11D.97BD8F40" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A11D.97BD8F40 Content-Type: text/plain You are correct Sir!!! -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:27 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball So this is how it starts, right Bob??? > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Hemker [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! Click for Details To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A11D.97BD8F40 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    You=20 are correct Sir!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 5:27= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy=20 Baseball

    So this is how it starts, right=20 Bob???

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Frederick Hem= ker=20 [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:= 50=20 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [scatterbra= ins]=20 Off Topic: Fwd: Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Baseball
    >


    <= TT>To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A11D.97BD8F40-- From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 19:47:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 03:47:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 91631 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 03:46:40 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1S3kck61673 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:46:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005001c0a138$f37bef00$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: <0371c1133231b21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Friedrich wept Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:45:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > and are you ever going to answer my other questions? > Hold your damn horses! (Note to Nietzsche: I said *hold* them, not *kiss* them.) These things take time, like a fine ale. Your response is forthcoming and will be at your fingertips forthwith. From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 20:12:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 04:12:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 46239 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 04:12:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 04:12:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 04:12:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1S4CCk63720 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:12:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005901c0a13c$85d348a0$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: <038143541211b21ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Engine, engine numbah nine, on the noo yawk transit line Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:11:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 27 Feb 01, at 15:40, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > Although I assume you have already written me off, > > Hmm. I've replied to everything that you've posted, and I've even > > incorporated some of your objections into the law. > > I only meant that it sounded like you would not need my vote, and > so my clout was diminishing. I did write questions because I > expected a response. > Relax, this is not an attempt to soil your reputation, or that of your > proposal I am relaxed, as a matter of fact I'm just opening beer #2. Wait a minute. Ah, hear that? Mmmm. I just didn't want you to get all hot and bothered about me ignoring you, as you apparently have already gone and done. (From another post that came whilst I was working: "and are you ever going to answer my other questions?" Antwort: DA!. Aber das andere war ein immediatetoberepliedtopost, und dieser ist ein untilI'mdoneworkingwaitundIbeerdrinkingampost.) > > > > > this raises my question even more sharply > > > If you make E's change, how would the situation differ from direct > > > vote-buying. > > > > > I think that you're being willfully obtuse on this point. Selling: > > Me: Paul, would you like to buy my vote? Paul: Ok, I'll give you 5 > > points for it. Me: Sounds great! Debt: I go negative, my vote is > > offered for auction... > > > > What's your point? > > OR > > Selling: I have 4 points and a denying proposal, I strike a deal to > sell my vote to eugene (because its his turn) as soon as I go > negative. My prop loses, before you (the SK) even tally the score > E transfers 6 points to me. Done. I never go into debt, or I am > relieved of debt. > > Debt: Same scenario. I go -6. After the SK scores, the auction > opens, E wants to by my vote, but knows he might be outbid and > have to take that risk. It may cost him many more points, he may > not win the auction. It certainly will take more time that could be > spend crafting and supporting his proposal[...] > ...And hence makes the game more interesting, harder to predict, and opens up the possibility that dear e loses the vote to evil and demented pb, who uses it to wreak havoc, become a god, throw lightning bolts around and drop the tv out of 1st floor windows to the delight and amusement of noone but himself, and... well, it won't be *that* much fun, but it certainly beats just a plain ol' sale. Actually, I think that this makes negative points truly negative. Under the current laws, there's nothing really special about going negative. Now there is. I think that's a good thing. That's why, as I've stated before, I think that this prop fills a hole: we need a provision for negative votes. > Seems to me the first is the better option, and it is currently > allowed. > But why? You hate vote selling anyway. It's unholy or something. > What if the debtor's points rise above 0, while the auction is open > by a transfer or some future point-gaining method? > As written, the vote would be returned to the player, and the auction, sadly, cancelled. All the farmers would go home kicking the dirt; another afternoon wasted. > (by the way fix language to O or above there are half points, I > could go from -.5 to .5 and never technically be freed. ) > Ok. That's a good fix. Incorporated. > > I've been thinking about this, and I think my decision is that if > > nobody buys it, the vote lies dormant. That should make it worth > > *somebody's* while to at least bid 1 point for it. > > and the debtor simply sits with negative points until his turn > comes, I thought this was the big problem that needed to be > addressed. Paul, I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine: Proposal 314. Prop 314, Paul; Paul, 314. Prop 314:"For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 again." > > > > but as I argued before, if it is created > > solely for the intention of where does the auction $ go, then it is > > relevant, and a defensible part of the prop. > > Why not save this until the auction rule forr the same damn reason > (what if we all promise to keep the damn name) > I guess that it could. But it is not a damn name. It is a very, very fine name. Also, I can easily forsee auctioning off things - like votes - in such a way that you might use Rule 582 (Codification of Auctions, written by Farmer Pete) with the proceeds going not to the UHEAF but to you. Hence the UHEAF would be a good and noble part of this proposition. > You never addressed the 313 issue. If the debtor's turn came up > and his (creditor?) used his vote to vote agaisnt the proposal. > OR would the vote-holder (the creditor) be obligated to vote for the > proposal and penalized if he did not? > If you make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. If a bad man make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. From bernardo@c... Tue Feb 27 20:28:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 04:28:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 55420 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 04:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 04:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 05:29:36 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1S4SUk65123 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:28:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006301c0a13e$ccb2fb60$d3a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 314 (Phat UHEAF remix) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:27:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 305 and Rule 207. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, a voting right. Each voting right is worth one vote. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point (from the UHEAF, see below), until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point or if the player's score rises above 0 at any point and for any reason, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. Proceeds from the auction will go into the Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund [UHEAF], and shall be earmarked for the debtor whose right was purchased. They shall be returned to the debtor (see above), with any fractional points remaining in the UHEAF. End Prop 314. From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 21:05:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 05:05:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 65940 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 05:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 05:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 05:05:51 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA20465 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:05:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004701c0a144$336cf2c0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <038143541211b21ISWEBNT@d...> <005901c0a13c$85d348a0$d3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ... Or you can get with that Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:06:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 27 Feb 01, at 15:40, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > Selling: I have 4 points and a denying proposal, I strike a deal to > > sell my vote to eugene (because its his turn) as soon as I go > > negative. My prop loses, before you (the SK) even tally the score > > E transfers 6 points to me. Done. I never go into debt, or I am > > relieved of debt. > > > > Debt: Same scenario. I go -6. After the SK scores, the auction > > opens, E wants to by my vote, but knows he might be outbid and > > have to take that risk. It may cost him many more points, he may > > not win the auction. It certainly will take more time that could be > > spend crafting and supporting his proposal[...] > > > ...And hence makes the game more interesting, harder to predict, and opens > up the possibility that dear e loses the vote to evil and demented pb, who > uses it to wreak havoc, become a god, throw lightning bolts around and drop > the tv out of 1st floor windows to the delight and amusement of noone but > himself, and... well, it won't be *that* much fun, but it certainly beats > just a plain ol' sale. Oh sure, paint me out to be a goody-goody. I plan on owning all your votes, and playing by myself. All I need is Boardwalk, and you'll all be bankrupt in no time... > Actually, I think that this makes negative points truly negative. Under the > current laws, there's nothing really special about going negative. Now > there is. I think that's a good thing. That's why, as I've stated before, > I think that this prop fills a hole: we need a provision for negative votes. FUN!!! It'll be fun, people!!! <> > Also, I can easily forsee auctioning off things - like votes - in such a way > that you might use Rule 582 (Codification of Auctions, written by Farmer > Pete) with the proceeds going not to the UHEAF but to you. Patpaul... I knew there was a Pete... It was only a matter of time. > If you make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > If a bad man make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. That leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but this reply is mostly full of shit, so if I stick it here, I'd have to bring it back to on-topic mode... From eventi@n... Tue Feb 27 21:22:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 05:22:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 80012 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 05:22:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 05:22:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 05:22:04 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA21268 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:22:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005401c0a146$77302340$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <006301c0a13e$ccb2fb60$d3a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 (radio edit) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:22:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 (Phat UHEAF remix) > > This proposal will amend Rule 305 and Rule 207. No it won't. Check out 103. A rule change is... And 306, the artist formerly known as 202 calls for step 1: Proposal of a rule... If you're willing to go with the intent, and blame the eagerness and carelessness of the society at the time (that would be you and I) for the poor wording, It should be read as "Proposal of a Rule *change* (refer back to 202, by clicking the history link for the original) In light of this, and because I truly support the Proposal, I withdraw my original objection to overriding, rather than amending 305 From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 28 05:55:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 13:55:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 15589 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 13:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 13:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 14:56:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1SDtLk05965 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:55:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c0a18d$fcae0ea0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <038143541211b21ISWEBNT@d...> <005901c0a13c$85d348a0$d3a811d0@computer> <004701c0a144$336cf2c0$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ... Or you can get with that Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:54:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > If you make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > > If a bad man make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > > That leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but this reply is mostly full > of shit, so if I stick it here, I'd have to bring it back to on-topic > mode... > Hey! This message was creative, and interesting. It was emphatically not shit. There also were answers not so hidden in the rough. But, on this point, I replied with that answer because I thought that it was important that if an owner voted a debtors vote agin' a prop that passes, then the 10 points would flow back to the debtor, not the owner. I figgered that penalties and rewards are connected to the vote, not the person voting it. But this is a matter of interpretation of the law, and isn't really a loggerhead until we get into that situation. Look, I didn't write the law making it a bad thing to vote agin' your own law. I really like the Fritzian strategy. Smart. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 28 06:03:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 14:03:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 55970 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 14:03:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 14:03:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 15:04:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1SE3mk06652 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:03:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c0a18f$2a9866c0$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: <006301c0a13e$ccb2fb60$d3a811d0@computer> <005401c0a146$77302340$126d1d40@v...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 (radio edit) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:03:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 (Phat UHEAF remix) > > > > This proposal will amend Rule 305 and Rule 207. > > No it won't. Check out 103. A rule change is... > I'm not sure how that requires it to be singular. It never says that you can only amend one law at a time... > And 306, the artist formerly known as 202 calls for step 1: Proposal of a > rule... If you're willing to go with the intent, and blame the eagerness and > carelessness of the society at the time (that would be you and I) for the > poor wording, It should be read as "Proposal of a Rule *change* (refer back > to 202, by clicking the history link for the original) > Hmm. I changed the wording, as far as I remember it, because I thought that rule *change* was too restrictive - it seemed to me to imply amendments, and not new rules. I don't think that the wording was poor. > In light of this, and because I truly support the Proposal, I withdraw my > original objection to overriding, rather than amending 305 > It does seem more rational to have it amend 207, but I'm really not sure why it couldn't amend 305 at the same time. Be that as it may, that may be a fight for another day. I'm happy with amend 207 and t.p. over 305... From eventi@n... Wed Feb 28 06:29:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 14:29:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 28756 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 14:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 14:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 15:30:35 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17554 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:29:30 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: On rewards and penalties for votes outside player's control (Was: ... Or you can get with that) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:31:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001201c0a18d$fcae0ea0$bfa811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:55 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] ... Or you can get with that > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > If you make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > > > If a bad man make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > > > > That leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth, but this reply is mostly > full > > of shit, so if I stick it here, I'd have to bring it back to on-topic > > mode... > > > Hey! This message was creative, and interesting. It was emphatically not > shit. There also were answers not so hidden in the rough. I had just meant it was OT up to this... I really couldn't help the slavery or Monopoly reference. > > But, on this point, I replied with that answer because I thought > that it was > important that if an owner voted a debtors vote agin' a prop that passes, > then the 10 points would flow back to the debtor, not the owner. > I figgered > that penalties and rewards are connected to the vote, not the > person voting > it. But this is a matter of interpretation of the law, and isn't really a > loggerhead until we get into that situation. Look, I didn't write the law > making it a bad thing to vote agin' your own law. I really like the > Fritzian strategy. Smart. I disagree. If I were to purchase a vote, I would expect to be able to get the highest "return" possible on it. So I would expect to get 10 points by Rule 204. And which vote would be penalized? If the responsibility is on the proponent to cast a yes to his own proposal, couldn't he split it with the debtor's vote, and claim no violation? The responsibility to the rules, and therefore the penalty or reward, has to lie with the one controlling the vote, regardless of the debtor's "participation" in the matter. We are definately in agreement that this should _not_ be included in the wording of the rule. From bernardo@c... Wed Feb 28 09:13:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 17:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 62979 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 17:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 17:12:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 17:12:54 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1SHCrk24961 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:12:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0b7aa$3862db60$bfa811d0@computer> To: Subject: Advance pre-release copy of Apology (rare!) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:12:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Paul: I just realized that the goofiness of my reply, in the context of whether or not I had written you off, appears to performatively assert that I am writing you off. Such is not the case. I actually intended most of that to answer the questions. After a long day and night of just working on Ortega, some irrational discourse had to be created. It is true, however, that I feel that you are bringing up many cases which are legitimate instances of strategy, and as such should remain untouched by the law. It is my feeling that the law should set up boundaries and general practices, but allow room for movement within those. Well, at any rate, if you want, I'll resend a reply utilizing more rational discourse. We go now, each to his own fate, and who goes to a better place, only the god knows. (Or something like that)... From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 28 11:36:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 19:36:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 35739 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 19:36:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 19:36:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 19:36:00 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:54:41 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 13:46:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 13:46:19 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:46:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT: Nietzsche's horses Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005001c0a138$f37bef00$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03bc94154191c21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" He was not crazy, he realized that he was wrong about politics. On re-reading the Apology to compare his own public pressentation of himself he realized that the city is not a herd of cattle, it is a horse, but he ran out of ways to express it. On 27 Feb 01, at 22:45, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > and are you ever going to answer my other questions? > > > Hold your damn horses! (Note to Nietzsche: I said *hold* them, not > *kiss* them.) > > These things take time, like a fine ale. Your response is forthcoming > and will be at your fingertips forthwith. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 28 12:04:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 20:04:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 22287 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 20:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 20:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 20:04:47 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:23:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 14:15:06 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 14:14:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:14:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Engine, engine numbah nine, on the noo yawk transit line Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005901c0a13c$85d348a0$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03a462823201c21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Feb 01, at 23:11, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 27 Feb 01, at 15:40, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > > Although I assume you have already written me off, > > > Hmm. I've replied to everything that you've posted, and I've even > > > incorporated some of your objections into the law. > > > > I only meant that it sounded like you would not need my vote, and so > > my clout was diminishing. I did write questions because I expected a > > response. Relax, this is not an attempt to soil your reputation, or > > that of your proposal > > I am relaxed, as a matter of fact I'm just opening beer #2. Wait a > minute. Ah, hear that? Mmmm. > > I just didn't want you to get all hot and bothered about me ignoring > you, as you apparently have already gone and done. (From another post > that came whilst I was working: "and are you ever going to answer my > other questions?" Antwort: DA!. Aber das andere war ein > immediatetoberepliedtopost, und dieser ist ein > untilI'mdoneworkingwaitundIbeerdrinkingampost.) > > > > > > > > this raises my question even more sharply > > > > If you make E's change, how would the situation differ from > > > > direct vote-buying. > > > > > > > I think that you're being willfully obtuse on this point. > > > Selling: Me: Paul, would you like to buy my vote? Paul: Ok, I'll > > > give you 5 points for it. Me: Sounds great! Debt: I go negative, > > > my vote is offered for auction... > > > > > > What's your point? > > > > OR > > > > Selling: I have 4 points and a denying proposal, I strike a deal to > > sell my vote to eugene (because its his turn) as soon as I go > > negative. My prop loses, before you (the SK) even tally the score E > > transfers 6 points to me. Done. I never go into debt, or I am > > relieved of debt. > > > > Debt: Same scenario. I go -6. After the SK scores, the auction > > opens, E wants to by my vote, but knows he might be outbid and have > > to take that risk. It may cost him many more points, he may not win > > the auction. It certainly will take more time that could be spend > > crafting and supporting his proposal[...] > > > ...And hence makes the game more interesting, harder to predict, and > opens up the possibility that dear e loses the vote to evil and > demented pb, who uses it to wreak havoc, become a god, throw lightning > bolts around and drop the tv out of 1st floor windows to the delight > and amusement of noone but himself, and... well, it won't be *that* > much fun, but it certainly beats just a plain ol' sale. > Sober translation: Even if I am correct, this rule is the only incentive for such a sale, and all of these possiblities are kinda neat. > Actually, I think that this makes negative points truly negative. > Under the current laws, there's nothing really special about going > negative. Now there is. I think that's a good thing. That's why, as > I've stated before, I think that this prop fills a hole: we need a > provision for negative votes. > > > Seems to me the first is the better option, and it is currently > > allowed. > > > But why? it is currently allowed (but other points taken) PB: You hate vote selling anyway. It's unholy or something. I don't like points as currency; it seems more appropriate to treat them as something like honors. But, I guess it is too late to do anything but accept the decay from timocracy to oligarchy. What do you really WIN if you gain points in dishonorable ways? > We could have established another form of currency, and there would be both wealth and honors in our city. > mmmm> > > > What if the debtor's points rise above 0, while the auction is open > > by a transfer or some future point-gaining method? > > > As written, the vote would be returned to the player, and the auction, > sadly, cancelled. All the farmers would go home kicking the dirt; > another afternoon wasted. > > > (by the way fix language to O or above there are half points, I > > could go from -.5 to .5 and never technically be freed. ) > > > Ok. That's a good fix. Incorporated. > > mmmm> > > > > I've been thinking about this, and I think my decision is that if > > > nobody buys it, the vote lies dormant. That should make it worth > > > *somebody's* while to at least bid 1 point for it. > > > > and the debtor simply sits with negative points until his turn > > comes, I thought this was the big problem that needed to be > > addressed. > > Paul, I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine: Proposal 314. > Prop 314, Paul; Paul, 314. > > Prop 314:"For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point > total will increase by 1 point, until such time as it reaches 0 > again." > Is the player a debtor to the winner of the auction or to the whole group? > > > > mmmm> > > but as I argued before, if it is created > > solely for the > intention of where does the auction $ go, then it is > > relevant, and > a defensible part of the prop. > > Why not save this until the auction > rule forr the same damn reason > (what if we all promise to keep the > damn name) > I guess that it could. But it is not a damn name. It is > a very, very fine name. a fine name indeed Only your attachment to ti is a bit ridiculous > > Also, I can easily forsee auctioning off things - like votes - in such > a way that you might use Rule 582 (Codification of Auctions, written > by Farmer Pete) with the proceeds going not to the UHEAF but to you. > > Hence the UHEAF would be a good and noble part of this proposition. > > > You never addressed the 313 issue. If the debtor's turn came up and > > his (creditor?) used his vote to vote agaisnt the proposal. OR would > > the vote-holder (the creditor) be obligated to vote for the proposal > > and penalized if he did not? > > > If you make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > If a bad man make your vote vote against your prop you are penalized. > There are additonal problems with that, but not ones that need to be addressed by you proposal. We still have an enforcement problem, but more on that later P.s. I was not getting hot, bothered, or anything else. I was only suggesting that my impression was that it woudl be quite reasonable for you to not make any changes because of my prefernces, because you appear to have the votes. I wanted to differentiate my objections from questions that I thought needed to be answered about the relation to other laws. Clue: I am not so adamantly against your proposal, that I am not trying to clarify things to make it better. I thought the adverserial system was ultimatley to be for the sake of better laws. I am still considering the proposal I only strongly objected to giving away points you don't have in its initial form. You sure that was only beer #2 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 28 12:18:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 20:18:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 58890 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 20:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 20:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 21:19:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:36:50 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 14:28:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 14:28:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:27:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Advance pre-release copy of Apology (rare!) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901c0b7aa$3862db60$bfa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03c185036201c21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Shut up , that was fine . Are you challenging my ability to find rational arguments in hyperbolic rhetoric? On 28 Mar 01, at 12:12, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Paul: > > I just realized that the goofiness of my reply, in the context of > whether or not I had written you off, appears to performatively assert > that I am writing you off. > > Such is not the case. I actually intended most of that to answer the > questions. After a long day and night of just working on Ortega, some > irrational discourse had to be created. It is true, however, that I > feel that you are bringing up many cases which are legitimate > instances of strategy, and as such should remain untouched by the law. > It is my feeling that the law should set up boundaries and general > practices, but allow room for movement within those. > > Well, at any rate, if you want, I'll resend a reply utilizing more > rational discourse. > > We go now, each to his own fate, and who goes to a better place, only > the god knows. (Or something like that)... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 28 15:36:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 23:36:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 64900 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 23:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 23:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 23:36:28 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:55:07 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 17:46:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 17:46:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:46:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 (Phat UHEAF remix) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006301c0a13e$ccb2fb60$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03d270755231c21ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Feb 01, at 23:27, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > Proposal 314: > > This proposal will amend Rule 305 and Rule 207. > > All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, a > voting right. Each voting right is worth one vote. > > Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a > "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of > their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his > point total will increase by 1 point (from the UHEAF, see below), > until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point or if the > player's score rises above 0 at any point and for any reason, the > debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting > right, unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case > the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that > proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days > (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently in > practice in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below > zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar > day. > > At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be > transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to > purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting > right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not > participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the > purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, > when it will revert to the original owner. Proceeds from the auction > will go into the Universal Homogenous Entropy Avoidance Fund [UHEAF], > and shall be earmarked for the debtor whose right was purchased. They > shall be returned to the debtor (see above), with any fractional > points remaining in the UHEAF. > > End Prop 314. > > > A couple of questions First, 'days currenly in practice in Nomic' is ambiguous. All days that anyone posts a message are in operation, Nothing prevents polls from opening and closing, proposals being made etc. Business days have thus far only been defined for acruing late penalites. But, the days that do't count are not our of operation. Which do you mean? What happens if there is no money in UHEAF. Then, if no one bids, the player remains in debt. What if no one bids enough. Is there a provision for a second auction. I understand that you want to leave the auction process undefined unitl another law, but why create possible scenarios that have no clear solution. Isn' t this legistlating backwards. You lose language of debt and puchase throughout the law without specifiying who is in debt to whom and who is purchasing what from whom. Perhaps you could make this clear somewhere to help solve future ambiguities. It looks like buying, selling, and debt to the whole Nomic unit, but the whole Nomic unit can create and destroy points, so the meanign of buying and selling in such a contrast is strange. This whole scheme INTRODUCES a scheme for the finite distibution of points. UHEAF is supposed to be to reserve for these indestructible and uncreatable points, but as it is not yet defined it leaves questions like How else can points go into UHEAF? Can it take points from the infinite well of Nomic? Can one transfer points to it? Are these tax deductible? Who administers UHEAF? Are UHEAF's points to be scored? reported? Again, saving all of this for later seems to be backwards. Establishing UHEAF is really the bigger change because it introduces the concept that points exist as entities that need a place to go. Your UHEAFless plan would have had points disappearing once they were paid and springing from the infinite well of Nomic points to pay the debtor. Is this change a necessary part of this proposal? Or shouldn't its establishment be made more clear? > I suppose only establising UHEAF would be "substituting a new proposal. > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Feb 28 15:45:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Feb 2001 23:45:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 24778 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 23:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2001 23:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 23:45:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:04:32 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 17:56:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Feb 01 17:55:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:55:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT Class prep relevant again Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03a353204000131ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" For your reflection and edification The citizen is an unqualified sense defined by no other thing so much as by sharing in decision and office. Aristote Politics 1275a23. From barturo@e... Thu Mar 01 08:27:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 1 Mar 2001 16:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 13282 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 16:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2001 16:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 16:27:07 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08473 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:21:16 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037338@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Proposal 314 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:21:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A26B.A37247F0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A26B.A37247F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When do the tickets go on sale for the Final Proposal?? Should I go stand on line now? Do I need a wrist band? Not that I'm rushing you but it's been quiet the last two day's. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A26B.A37247F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    When do t= he tickets=20 go on sale for the Final Proposal?? Should I go stand on line now? Do I nee= d a=20 wrist band?
     
    Not that = I'm rushing=20 you but it's been quiet the last two day's.


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A26B.A37247F0-- From eventi@n... Thu Mar 01 08:44:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 1 Mar 2001 16:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2530 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 16:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2001 16:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 16:44:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA10214 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:44:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 ME TOO!!! Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0A245.34E52710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037338@BATMAN> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0A245.34E52710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Second that. Bob- We gotta have a little talk about your outlook settings... Under the address card for the list, can you check the "Plain Text Only" box? Thanks... -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:21 AM To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 314 When do the tickets go on sale for the Final Proposal?? Should I go stand on line now? Do I need a wrist band? Not that I'm rushing you but it's been quiet the last two day's. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0A245.34E52710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Second=20 that.
     
    Bob-
     =20 We gotta have a little talk about your outlook settings... Under the addres= s=20 card for the list, can you check the "Plain Text Only" box?=20 Thanks...
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Thursday, March 0= 1,=20 2001 11:21 AM
    To: Scatterbrains (E-mail)
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Proposal 314

    When do= the=20 tickets go on sale for the Final Proposal?? Should I go stand on line now= ? Do=20 I need a wrist band?
     
    Not tha= t I'm=20 rushing you but it's been quiet the last two day's.

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0A245.34E52710-- From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 02 06:22:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 30535 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 14:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 14:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 15:23:56 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f22EMnk83462 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:22:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c0a324$26ab8920$c6a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Final Form of Proposal 314 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:22:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 314: This proposal will amend Rule 207 and take precedence over Rule 305. All players begin the game with, and under normal play shall retain, a voting right. Each voting right is worth one vote. Any player whose score becomes negative is hereby designated a "debtor." Debtors temporarily lose voting rights, for the duration of their debt. For each official day that a player is a debtor, his point total will increase by 1 point until such time as it reaches 0 again. At that point or if the debtor's score rises above 0 at any point and for any reason, the debtor shall be a full participant again, and shall regain his voting right; unless a new proposal has already been offered, in which case the debtor shall regain his voting right at the close of that proposal. Official days shall be determined by counting calendar days (i.e. not 24 hour periods), using those days which are currently official in Nomic. However, if a player's point total drops below zero after 5pm, the first day of debt will be the following calendar day. At the moment a player becomes a debtor, his voting right will be transferred to the community, at which point other players may bid to purchase it. An on-list auction will be created, with the voting right being transferred to the highest bidder. Debtors may not participate in the auctions. The highest bidder shall retain the purchased voting right until such time as the period of debt ends, when it will revert to the original owner. End Prop 314. From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 02 06:25:07 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 78667 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 14:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 14:25:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 14:25:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.110] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2001 14:25:00 -0000 Date: 2 Mar 2001 14:25:00 -0000 Message-ID: <983543100.1622.93790.ee@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Proposal 314 (See email for final form) o Sounds cool o Nah To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 02 06:26:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 14:26:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 92044 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 14:26:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 14:26:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 15:27:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f22EQkk83667 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:26:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002901c0a324$b3cd4be0$c6a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 09:25:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A2FA.C9B9E1E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A2FA.C9B9E1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has been sent out. Y= ou may still ask me any questions or requests for clarification, and I'll r= eply to them as soon as possible. pb. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A2FA.C9B9E1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Just to let you know, the final form - as = requested=20 - has been sent out.  You may still ask me any questions or requests f= or=20 clarification, and I'll reply to them as soon as possible.
     
    pb.
    ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0A2FA.C9B9E1E0-- From eventi@n... Fri Mar 02 10:28:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 18:28:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 31554 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 18:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 18:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 19:20:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA25648 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:19:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:21:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002901c0a324$b3cd4be0$c6a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Only one vote to go -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:26 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Final form is out Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has been sent out. You may still ask me any questions or requests for clarification, and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. pb. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 02 12:52:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 20:52:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 42151 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 20:52:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 20:52:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:53:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:10:46 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:02:51 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:02:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:02:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Final form is out Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <002901c0a324$b3cd4be0$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <041d84610210231ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in this form. Someone persuade me to make voting rights alienable, Paul On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Only one vote to go > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:26 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Final form is out > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has been sent > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests for clarification, > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > pb. > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Fri Mar 02 13:02:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:02:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 63654 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:02:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.52] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2001 21:01:59 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:01:57 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Final form is out Message-ID: <97p1o5+9cgc@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <041d84610210231ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1298 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable rights from government intrustion! Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights alienable, > Paul > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one vote to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Final form is out > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 02 13:09:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:09:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 83834 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:09:45 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:28:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:20:09 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:19:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:19:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Priority: normal In-reply-to: <97p1o5+9cgc@eGroups.com> References: <041d84610210231ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <040d40528210231ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view should voting writes in this game be inalienable? On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable rights > from government intrustion! > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > this > form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights alienable, > Paul > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one vote > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:26 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Final form is out > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests for > clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from > this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 02 13:14:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 94267 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:14:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA13621 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:14:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:16:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <040d40528210231ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Just vote no!!! Let's move on. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view > should voting writes in this game be inalienable? > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable rights > > from government intrustion! > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > this > > form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights alienable, > Paul > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one vote > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 9:26 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Final form is out > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - has > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests for > > clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from > > this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 02 13:29:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:29:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 2052 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 21:28:07 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:46:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:38:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 15:38:22 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:38:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <040d40528210231ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03f782546210231ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > --e I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, I think you made the situation clear enough P.S. Sorry to put planning my life before Nomic PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks for the headsup pat > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view > > should voting writes in this game be inalienable? > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > rights from government intrustion! > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one > > > > vote > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - > > > > > > > > > has > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 02 13:55:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:55:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 70510 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 22:54:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17494 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:53:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:54:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <03f782546210231ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Sorry- Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, and this has been discussed to death. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > > --e > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, > I think you made the situation clear enough > > P.S. Sorry to put planning my life before Nomic > > PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks for the headsup pat > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view > > > should voting writes in this game be inalienable? > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > > rights from government intrustion! > > > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one > > > > > vote > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] > > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 02 13:57:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 21:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 2790 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 21:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 21:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 22:58:53 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17916 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03733D@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:51:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A362.FE3CE4E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A362.FE3CE4E0 Content-Type: text/plain You need a beer!!! -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Sorry- Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, and this has been discussed to death. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > > --e > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, > I think you made the situation clear enough > > P.S. Sorry to put planning my life before Nomic > > PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks for the headsup pat > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view > > > should voting writes in this game be inalienable? > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > > rights from government intrustion! > > > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one > > > > > vote > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] > > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www.newaydirect.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A362.FE3CE4E0 Content-Type: text/html
    You need a beer!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out

    Sorry-
          Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, and this has
    been discussed to death.
          --e

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote:
    >
    > > Just vote no!!!  Let's move on.
    > >  --e
    > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to
    > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal,
    > I think you made the situation clear enough
    >
    > P.S.  Sorry to put planning my life before Nomic
    >
    > PPS  RealAle Festvival 2 hours away.  thanks for the headsup pat
    > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM
    > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view
    > > > should voting writes in this game be inalienable?
    > > >
    > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Can't do it, Paul.  Please vote no.  Protect our inalienable
    > > > > rights from government intrustion!
    > > > >
    > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick!
    > > > >
    > > > > -Fritz
    > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" <pkirklan@e...> wrote:
    > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in
    > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights
    > > > > alienable, > Paul >
    > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one
    > > > > > vote
    > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D.
    > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001
    > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains]
    > > > > Final form is out
    > > > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested -
    > > > > > > > > > > has
    > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests
    > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible.
    > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To
    > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >
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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A362.FE3CE4E0-- From eventi@n... Fri Mar 02 14:01:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 22:01:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 12464 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 22:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 22:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 22:01:27 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA18239 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:01:26 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:03:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C0A33A.AE32A840" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03733D@BATMAN> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C0A33A.AE32A840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dude- I do!! But last night, Kwan Ahn delayed my life again, and I really didn't feel like talking. I try not to drink when I'm in that kinda mood. --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:52 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out You need a beer!!! -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out Sorry- Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, and this has been discussed to death. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > > --e > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, > I think you made the situation clear enough > > P.S. Sorry to put planning my life before Nomic > > PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks for the headsup pat > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > I am not sure that this not already over, but why, in your view > > > should voting writes in this game be inalienable? > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > > rights from government intrustion! > > > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of Patrick! > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one > > > > > vote > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] > > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form - as requested - > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or requests > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as possible. > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C0A33A.AE32A840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Dude-
        I do!! But last night, Kwan Ahn delayed my life ag= ain, and=20 I really didn't feel like talking.  I try not to drink when I'm in tha= t=20 kinda mood.
        --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 02,= 2001=20 4:52 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: = RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out

    You=20 need a beer!!!
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia= =20 [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is=20 out

    Sorry-
          Sh= ort=20 fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, and this has
    be= en=20 discussed to death.
          --e

    >=20 -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:= 38=20 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is=20 out
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Euge= ne=20 Ventimiglia wrote:
    >
    > > Just vote no!!!  Let's mov= e=20 on.
    > >  --e
    > I just wanted to leave the chance fo= r=20 someone to persuade me to
    > vote for the Budweiser version of thi= s=20 proposal,
    > I think you made the situation clear=20 enough
    >
    > P.S.  Sorry to put planning my life before= =20 Nomic
    >
    > PPS  RealAle Festvival 2 hours away.  t= hanks=20 for the headsup pat
    > >
    > > > -----Original=20 Message-----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, March 0= 2,=20 2001 4:20 PM
    > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    >= ;=20 > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out
    > &g= t;=20 >
    > > >
    > > > I am not sure that this not al= ready=20 over, but why, in your view
    > > > should voting writes in t= his=20 game be inalienable?
    > > >
    > > > On 2 Mar 01, a= t=20 21:01, f_hemker@h... wrote:
    > > >
    > > > = >=20 Can't do it, Paul.  Please vote no.  Protect our=20 inalienable
    > > > > rights from government=20 intrustion!
    > > > >
    > > > > Say no to the= =20 Tyranny of Patrick!
    > > > >
    > > > >=20 -Fritz
    > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland= "=20 <pkirklan@e...> wrote:
    > > > > > Sorry busy day= , but=20 I am genuinely undecided on the proposal in
    > > > > >= this=20 form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights
    > > > = >=20 alienable, > Paul >
    > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 1= 3:21,=20 Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only one
    > > > >= ;=20 > vote
    > > > > to go > > > > -----Origina= l=20 Message----- > > From: Patrick D.
    > > > > Bernardo= =20 [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001
    > &= gt;=20 > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject:=20 [scatterbrains]
    > > > > Final form is out
    > > &= gt;=20 > > > > > > > Just to let you know, the final form= - as=20 requested -
    > > > > > > > > > > has>=20 > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questi= ons=20 or requests
    > > > > for clarification, > > and I'l= l=20 reply to them as soon as possible.
    > > > > > > >= ;=20 > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > = >=20 > > > To
    > > > > unsubscribe from this group, s= end=20 an email to: > >
    > > > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > >= ;=20 > Your use of
    > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the= =20 Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >
    > > > >= ;=20 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >
    >= ;=20 > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > >= ;=20 > > > > Your use of
    > > > > Yahoo! Groups is= =20 subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/
    >=20 > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > = >=20 >
    > > > >
    > > > > To unsubscribe from = this=20 group, send an email to:
    > > > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > > >
    > &g= t;=20 > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yah= oo!=20 Groups is subject to
    > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/
    >=20 > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >=20 >
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group= ,=20 send an email to:
    > > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > >
    > >=20 >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is=20 subject to
    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/
    >=20 > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    >= =20 >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > = http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/
    >=20 >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from t= his=20 group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Y= our=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/t= erms/
    >
    >



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_00CC_01C0A33A.AE32A840-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 02 14:04:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 22:04:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 14596 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 22:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 22:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 22:04:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:22:36 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 16:14:41 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 16:14:16 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:14:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: beer Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03733D@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03f633622220231ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 2 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Dude- > I do!! But last night, Kwan Ahn delayed my life again, and I > really > didn't feel like talking. I try not to drink when I'm in that kinda > mood. > --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:52 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > You need a beer!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > Sorry- > Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, > and > this has > been discussed to death. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > > > --e > > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to > > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, > I think you > made the situation clear enough > > P.S. Sorry to put planning my > life before Nomic > > PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks > for the headsup pat > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: > Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > > To: > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] > Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > I am not sure that this > not already over, but why, in your view > > > should voting writes > in this game be inalienable? > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, > f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. > Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > > rights from > government intrustion! > > > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of > Patrick! > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., > "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the > proposal > in > > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene > Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only > one > > > > > > vote > > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick > D. > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March > 02, 2001 > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: > [scatterbrains] > > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > Just > to let you know, the final form - as > requested - > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or > requests > > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as > possible. > > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use > of > > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your > use > of > > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 02 14:07:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 2 Mar 2001 22:07:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 22877 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2001 22:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Mar 2001 22:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Mar 2001 23:08:50 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:26:06 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 16:18:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Mar 01 16:18:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:17:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: beer Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03733D@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <042800526220231ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Throat clearing: subject headings maybe we should have a necessary beer heading to officially close business for each week Or maybe I am just pleased that I am going to have the best beer of the bunch today. RealAle festival 150 cask beers P.S. I voted, where are the results? PPS. E Apology acceped, seriously I had 50 other things on my mind and I just did not want to vote on impulse IF it was going to make a differnce. Actually for clarifying mattersm, you response did the trick On 2 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Dude- > I do!! But last night, Kwan Ahn delayed my life again, and I > really > didn't feel like talking. I try not to drink when I'm in that kinda > mood. > --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:52 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > You need a beer!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:55 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > Sorry- > Short fuse today... It's been 2 weeks since the last poll, > and > this has > been discussed to death. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 4:38 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 16:16, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Just vote no!!! Let's move on. > > > --e > > I just wanted to leave the chance for someone to persuade me to > > vote for the Budweiser version of this proposal, > I think you > made the situation clear enough > > P.S. Sorry to put planning my > life before Nomic > > PPS RealAle Festvival 2 hours away. thanks > for the headsup pat > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: > Friday, March 02, 2001 4:20 PM > > > To: > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] > Re: Final form is out > > > > > > > > > I am not sure that this > not already over, but why, in your view > > > should voting writes > in this game be inalienable? > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 21:01, > f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > > > Can't do it, Paul. > Please vote no. Protect our inalienable > > > > rights from > government intrustion! > > > > > > > > Say no to the Tyranny of > Patrick! > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., > "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > > > > > > Sorry busy day, but I am genuinely undecided on the > proposal > in > > > > > > this form. > Someone persuade me to make voting rights > > > > > alienable, > Paul > > > > > > On 2 Mar 01, at 13:21, Eugene > Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Only > one > > > > > > vote > > > > > to go > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick > D. > > > > Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March > 02, 2001 > > > > 9:26 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: > [scatterbrains] > > > > Final form is out > > > > > > > > > > Just > to let you know, the final form - as > requested - > > > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > been sent > > out. You may still ask me any questions or > requests > > > > > for clarification, > > and I'll reply to them as soon as > possible. > > > > > > > > > pb. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use > of > > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your > use > of > > > > > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 02 16:59:05 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 59853 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 00:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2001 00:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 00:59:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.103] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2001 00:59:05 -0000 Date: 3 Mar 2001 00:59:00 -0000 Message-ID: <983581140.294.17072.sd@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal 314 (See email for final form) CHOICES AND RESULTS - Sounds cool, 3 votes, 60.00% - Nah, 2 votes, 40.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Sounds cool - bernardo@c... - eventi@n... - barturo@e... - Nah - pkirklan@e... - f_hemker@h... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 02 17:00:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 3 Mar 2001 01:00:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 63467 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 01:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2001 01:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 01:00:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f2310mk92405 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:00:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001e01c0a37d$4699d4e0$d3a811d0@computer> To: Subject: *Rule* 314! Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:59:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I want to thank all of my supporters. The score report will be out tomorrow morning. Paul K, you are ungrateful. I gave you the notice on the Real Ale Festival, and you voted against me. Damn. Right now you are drinking wonderful beer. There is no natural justice. From bernardo@c... Sat Mar 03 09:13:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 3 Mar 2001 17:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 43704 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 17:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2001 17:13:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 17:13:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f23HDGk61248 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:13:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c0a405$2034d920$c9a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score Report Round 314 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:12:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Nomic and it's scores. Patrick Bernardo, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passencore arrived with 9 points for Passage of Rule 314 Fritz Hemker and Paul Kirklan, of the Stuttering hand, freeman's maurer, got 10 points each for voting against a successful rule... What clashes here of wills gen wonts! Killykilly: a toll, a toll! A way a lone a last a loved a long the BA: 30 PB: 57 FH: 28.5 PK: 30.5 EV: 64 From eventi@n... Mon Mar 05 06:49:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 14:49:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 97267 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 14:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 14:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 14:49:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA18894 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:49:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:51:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001e01c0a37d$4699d4e0$d3a811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Pat- I finally got around to posting the new rule, and I had to make what I see as a very minor revision: The first sentence of the proposal read "This proposal will amend Rule 207 and take precedence over Rule 305." I changed that to read "This rule takes precedence over Rule 305." and moved it to the last sentence. If that's unacceptable, I can leave it as it was. The only reason in my mind that there's any question is that you placed it inside the "Proposal...End Proposal" block we've all been using to denote the actual body of the proposal. Since by 108, 207 gets renumbered to 314, there's no need to explicitly state that it's an amendment in the Rule. --e BTW: 207's now in the archive section. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:00 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > > > I want to thank all of my supporters. The score report will be > out tomorrow > morning. > > Paul K, you are ungrateful. I gave you the notice on the Real > Ale Festival, > and you voted against me. > > Damn. Right now you are drinking wonderful beer. > > There is no natural justice. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 05 06:53:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 14:53:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 7827 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 14:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 14:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 14:53:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-19.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.204]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f25ErLk12327 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:53:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c0a583$e91a7d20$cca811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:52:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Oh. I hadn't thought of that. No objection here. I still haven't gotten down the correct form, I guess... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:51 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > Pat- > I finally got around to posting the new rule, and I had to make what I see > as a very minor revision: The first sentence of the proposal read "This > proposal will amend Rule 207 and take precedence over Rule 305." I changed > that to read "This rule takes precedence over Rule 305." and moved it to the > last sentence. If that's unacceptable, I can leave it as it was. The only > reason in my mind that there's any question is that you placed it inside the > "Proposal...End Proposal" block we've all been using to denote the actual > body of the proposal. Since by 108, 207 gets renumbered to 314, there's no > need to explicitly state that it's an amendment in the Rule. > --e > > BTW: 207's now in the archive section. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:00 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > > > > > > I want to thank all of my supporters. The score report will be > > out tomorrow > > morning. > > > > Paul K, you are ungrateful. I gave you the notice on the Real > > Ale Festival, > > and you voted against me. > > > > Damn. Right now you are drinking wonderful beer. > > > > There is no natural justice. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 05 07:02:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 15:02:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 13264 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA20007 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:02:07 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:04:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000501c0a583$e91a7d20$cca811d0@computer> Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think it's better that there isn't a correct form. Common and accepted form seems to be working for now. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:53 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > > > Oh. I hadn't thought of that. No objection here. I still haven't gotten > down the correct form, I guess... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:51 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > > > > Pat- > > I finally got around to posting the new rule, and I had to make > what I see > > as a very minor revision: The first sentence of the proposal read "This > > proposal will amend Rule 207 and take precedence over Rule 305." I > changed > > that to read "This rule takes precedence over Rule 305." and moved it to > the > > last sentence. If that's unacceptable, I can leave it as it was. The > only > > reason in my mind that there's any question is that you placed it inside > the > > "Proposal...End Proposal" block we've all been using to denote > the actual > > body of the proposal. Since by 108, 207 gets renumbered to 314, there's > no > > need to explicitly state that it's an amendment in the Rule. > > --e > > > > BTW: 207's now in the archive section. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:00 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! > > > > > > > > > I want to thank all of my supporters. The score report will be > > > out tomorrow > > > morning. > > > > > > Paul K, you are ungrateful. I gave you the notice on the Real > > > Ale Festival, > > > and you voted against me. > > > > > > Damn. Right now you are drinking wonderful beer. > > > > > > There is no natural justice. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From f_hemker@h... Mon Mar 05 11:52:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 19:52:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 26189 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 19:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 19:51:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 19:51:38 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.127] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2001 19:51:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:51:37 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: My Turn... Message-ID: <980qo9+te11@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 227 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Ah, so it's my turn again. Give me a moment and I'll think of something. I think that we're coming up to the acceptable limit of mutable rules. I might take a crack at that. Down with the Tyranny of Vote-Slavery! -Fritz From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 12:33:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 20:33:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 38284 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 20:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:33:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:52:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 14:44:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 14:43:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:43:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001e01c0a37d$4699d4e0$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <042983052200531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 2 Mar 01, at 19:59, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I want to thank all of my supporters. The score report will be out > tomorrow morning. > > Paul K, you are ungrateful. I gave you the notice on the Real Ale > Festival, and you voted against me. > > Damn. Right now you are drinking wonderful beer. > > There is no natural justice. > And I did not even remember to get you a souvenir either The beer festival was great, more later if interested. I will get back to you on the vote as well, but I was rushed. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 13:02:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 21:02:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4071 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 20:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:57:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2001 20:57:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:57:54 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Point Tranfer 1002 Message-ID: <980ukj+9jr9@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1039 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... I Paul Kirkland of my own free will, do transfer 3 points to Patrick Bernardo Unrequired explanation: I was rushed on that vote and did not have any real objections left to its final form. I was in the midst of a discussion with Mary which for obvious reasons took priority. I did not see the final form until all of the other votes were in and 5 pm est friday was rapidly approaching. I was willing to be convinced, but e's resposne convinced me that it had already passed, so I voted againt it, for that was my position on its earlier forms. In the interest of the best laws, I think that strategic point-gaining should be subordinated to awarding good lawmaking. Short form: I was thinking about my dissertation and beer, but your revising should pay off, so I am transfering the points you would have gotten from my vote (since I do have ten extra points) Now, everyone is better off. Alternative explanation for the paranoid: I am pat with a typing impediment and this is the easiest way to maximize my points. From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 13:11:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 21:11:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 53962 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 21:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 21:09:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:28:06 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 15:19:50 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 15:19:35 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:19:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] My Turn... Priority: normal In-reply-to: <980qo9+te11@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <042aa0628210531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 5 Mar 01, at 19:51, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Ah, so it's my turn again. Give me a moment and I'll think of > something. I think that we're coming up to the acceptable limit of > mutable rules. I might take a crack at that. > > Down with the Tyranny of Vote-Slavery! > > -Fritz I am going to France for two weeks. (no, but I will really be out of town from Wednesday until next Monday) I will try to check in and not delay any votes if things move quickly. Pk > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 05 13:19:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 21:19:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 64587 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 21:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 22:18:21 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29564 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:17:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:19:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <980ukj+9jr9@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Dude- It turns out I was probably delusional due to the 102 fever I had. One of my coworkers told me I blew him off on some work related thing, then forwarded him some bizzarre link Myla mailed me. Wars could get started that way... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:58 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > I Paul Kirkland of my own free will, > do transfer 3 points to Patrick Bernardo > > Unrequired explanation: > > I was rushed on that vote and did not have any real objections left > to its final form. I was in the midst of a discussion with Mary > which for obvious reasons took priority. I did not see the final > form until all of the other votes were in and 5 pm est friday was > rapidly approaching. I was willing to be convinced, but e's resposne > convinced me that it had already passed, so I voted againt it, for > that was my position on its earlier forms. In the interest of the > best laws, I think that strategic point-gaining should be > subordinated to awarding good lawmaking. > Short form: I was thinking about my dissertation and beer, but your > revising should pay off, so I am transfering the points you would > have gotten from my vote (since I do have ten extra points) Now, > everyone is better off. > > Alternative explanation for the paranoid: > > I am pat with a typing impediment and this is the easiest way to > maximize my points. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 13:33:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 21:33:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20376 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 21:32:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 21:32:31 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:51:21 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 15:43:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 15:43:03 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:42:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <980ukj+9jr9@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03ff62151210531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" eugene- But your state of mind was irrelevant. you conveyed in your blunt way that Bob had voted for it (I knew you and patrick would and Fritz would not) and thus that it had passed regardless of what I did.. Given my own state of mind, it was just what I needed to hear. I wanted to gt bakc tow\ath I was doing. Of course, the slightest attempt to persuade me probably would have gotten my vote, but hey we all have other things to do. The only difference between the current state of affairs and one in which I voted for it is that I have seven more points. I am not complaining. Wars have started that way On 5 Mar 01, at 16:19, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Dude- > It turns out I was probably delusional due to the 102 fever I had. > One of > my coworkers told me I blew him off on some work related thing, then > forwarded him some bizzarre link Myla mailed me. Wars could get > started that way... > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:58 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > > > > > I Paul Kirkland of my own free will, > > do transfer 3 points to Patrick Bernardo > > > > Unrequired explanation: > > > > I was rushed on that vote and did not have any real objections left > > to its final form. I was in the midst of a discussion with Mary > > which for obvious reasons took priority. I did not see the final > > form until all of the other votes were in and 5 pm est friday was > > rapidly approaching. I was willing to be convinced, but e's resposne > > convinced me that it had already passed, so I voted againt it, for > > that was my position on its earlier forms. In the interest of the > > best laws, I think that strategic point-gaining should be > > subordinated to awarding good lawmaking. Short form: I was thinking > > about my dissertation and beer, but your revising should pay off, so > > I am transfering the points you would have gotten from my vote > > (since I do have ten extra points) Now, everyone is better off. > > > > Alternative explanation for the paranoid: > > > > I am pat with a typing impediment and this is the easiest way to > > maximize my points. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 05 13:57:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 21:57:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 3698 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 21:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 22:57:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA03927 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:56:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:58:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <03ff62151210531ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:43 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > eugene- > But your state of mind was irrelevant. you conveyed in your blunt > way that Bob had voted for it (I knew you and patrick would and > Fritz would not) and thus that it had passed regardless of what I > did.. What made you think I knew how Bobby voted? Ah, you assumed I was being rational, and wouldn't risk losing Pat's proposal. It all makes sense now. Man, he woulda been pissed if BA voted against! From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 14:05:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 22:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 9360 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 22:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 22:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 23:05:44 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:23:29 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 16:15:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 16:14:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:14:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <03ff62151210531ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0414a2923220531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I thought you might have some attachment to it given your contributions. Because BA had not expressed anything against it, it did also seem to be most likely. But, thank you for reminding me that I should never assume that you will act rationally. He woulda been pissed, but if he didn't yet have assurance of the votes he coulda tried harder to persuade. You were not the only sign that it was already passed. Gees, I did not make that big a deal of your response. It was a good excuse to vote quickly and move as directly as possible from the dissertation to beer. On 5 Mar 01, at 16:58, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:43 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > > > eugene- > > But your state of mind was irrelevant. you conveyed in your blunt > > way that Bob had voted for it (I knew you and patrick would and > > Fritz would not) and thus that it had passed regardless of what I > > did.. > > What made you think I knew how Bobby voted? Ah, you assumed I was > being rational, and wouldn't risk losing Pat's proposal. It all makes > sense now. Man, he woulda been pissed if BA voted against! > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 05 14:42:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 22:42:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 12172 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 22:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 22:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 22:42:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.193]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f25Mgmk53096 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:42:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c0a5c5$7e0b8b40$c1a811d0@computer> To: References: <042983052200531ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:41:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 2 Mar 01, at 19:59, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > There is no natural justice. > > > And I did not even remember to get you a souvenir either > AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 14:47:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 22:47:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24733 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 22:47:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 22:47:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 22:47:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:06:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 16:57:44 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 16:57:31 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:57:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] *Rule* 314! Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000b01c0a5c5$7e0b8b40$c1a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03ff90006230531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Not that good intentions count for much, but I meant to pick up a bumper sticker or something. "I BREW THE BEER I DRINK' seemed to be the right spirit, there is always next year. On 5 Mar 01, at 17:41, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > On 2 Mar 01, at 19:59, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > There is no natural justice. > > > > > And I did not even remember to get you a souvenir either > > > AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 05 15:12:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 23:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 86101 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 23:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 23:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 23:11:57 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA10453 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:11:56 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:14:10 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <0414a2923220531ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:15 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > I thought you might have some attachment to it given your > contributions. > > Because BA had not expressed anything against it, it did also > seem to be most likely. > > But, thank you for reminding me that I should never assume that > you will act rationally. Therein lies your fatal flaw... My daughter, who apparently had the same sickness as me this weekend, woke me up at 2 AM Saturday, and asked me what I was eating. I said "nothing Emily, go to sleep, I love you." She gave me a big hug and said "Goodnight Grandma" > > He woulda been pissed, but if he didn't yet have assurance of the > votes he coulda tried harder to persuade. > > You were not the only sign that it was already passed. > > Gees, I did not make that big a deal of your response. It was a > good excuse to vote quickly and move as directly as possible from > the dissertation to beer. > > On 5 Mar 01, at 16:58, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:43 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > > > > > > eugene- > > > But your state of mind was irrelevant. you conveyed in your blunt > > > way that Bob had voted for it (I knew you and patrick would and > > > Fritz would not) and thus that it had passed regardless of what I > > > did.. > > > > What made you think I knew how Bobby voted? Ah, you assumed I was > > being rational, and wouldn't risk losing Pat's proposal. It all makes > > sense now. Man, he woulda been pissed if BA voted against! > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 05 15:52:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 5 Mar 2001 23:52:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 89745 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 23:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2001 23:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 00:53:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:11:16 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 18:03:00 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 5 Mar 01 18:02:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:02:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0414a2923220531ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <040f51611000631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 5 Mar 01, at 18:14, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 5:15 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > > > I thought you might have some attachment to it given your > > contributions. > > > > Because BA had not expressed anything against it, it did also > > seem to be most likely. > > > > But, thank you for reminding me that I should never assume that you > > will act rationally. > > Therein lies your fatal flaw... fatal? I was right even if for the wrong reasons. I have ten points to show for it. (ok 7) > > My daughter, who apparently had the same sickness as me this weekend, > woke me up at 2 AM Saturday, and asked me what I was eating. I said > "nothing Emily, go to sleep, I love you." She gave me a big hug and > said "Goodnight Grandma" > But oddly it did not appear to be strange behavior in you. Do you remember the scene in Dr. Strangelove when they first learn about the Doomsday Machine blah balh deterrent blah Why zdidn't djou tell anybody!!!!" > > > > He woulda been pissed, but if he didn't yet have assurance of the > > votes he coulda tried harder to persuade. > > > > You were not the only sign that it was already passed. > > > > Gees, I did not make that big a deal of your response. It was a > > good excuse to vote quickly and move as directly as possible from > > the dissertation to beer. > > > > On 5 Mar 01, at 16:58, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:43 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 > > > > > > > > > > > > eugene- > > > > But your state of mind was irrelevant. you conveyed in your > > > > blunt way that Bob had voted for it (I knew you and patrick > > > > would and Fritz would not) and thus that it had passed > > > > regardless of what I did.. > > > > > > What made you think I knew how Bobby voted? Ah, you assumed I was > > > being rational, and wouldn't risk losing Pat's proposal. It all > > > makes sense now. Man, he woulda been pissed if BA voted against! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 06 08:33:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:33:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 90401 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:33:36 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f26GXYk36823 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:33:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c0a65b$14501040$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <03ff62151210531ISWEBNT@d...> <0414a2923220531ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:32:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > > He woulda been pissed, but if he didn't yet have assurance of the > votes he coulda tried harder to persuade. > > You were not the only sign that it was already passed. > Don't want to make a big deal out of this, but the funny thing is that I never tried to convince you because I wasn't online all day. Hence the silence. It's funny that you read that meaning into it, because I *could* have been screwed by it. I read the posts post-vote posting and thought "Eug? WTF?" But my favorite is still the Emily story. p. From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 06 08:34:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:34:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 91898 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:34:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:34:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:34:07 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f26GXxk36842 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:33:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001901c0a65b$22e8f0e0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <980ukj+9jr9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Point Tranfer 1002 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:33:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > > I Paul Kirkland of my own free will, > do transfer 3 points to Patrick Bernardo > Thank you. From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 06 08:40:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:40:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 8903 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:40:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f26GeRk37378 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:40:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c0a65c$0a77cf80$c7a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Interim Score Report 1002 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:39:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Paul Kirkland has ceded 3 points in Point Transfer 1002. Patrick Bernardo has gained 3 points from Paul in Point Transfer 1002. From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 06 08:57:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 16:57:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 55476 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 16:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 16:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 16:57:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.111] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2001 16:57:29 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:57:26 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 315 Message-ID: <9834tm+kca9@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 451 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... Begin Proposal 315 At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player. End Proposal 315 This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us some breathing room to work with before we run up against the quickly approaching limit. I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule 314 to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 points. -Fritz From eventi@n... Tue Mar 06 09:05:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 17:05:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 94384 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:05:49 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA05083 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:05:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:08:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <9834tm+kca9@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Let the games begin... > Begin Proposal 315 > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player. > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > End Proposal 315 > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us some > breathing room to work with before we run up against the quickly > approaching limit. > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule 314 > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 points. > > -Fritz > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 06 09:46:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 17:46:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 82627 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 17:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 18:47:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f26HkHk43677 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:46:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001301c0a665$3cc49dc0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <9834tm+kca9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:45:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule 314 > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 points. > Ha! I would have been willing to bet that your rule was going to be an amendment of 314. I was curious because all that you would have had to do is flip one voter, and it would have passed... From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 06 09:56:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 17:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 96763 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 17:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:56:03 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2001 17:56:03 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:56:00 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Message-ID: <9838bg+sj2u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 900 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... amendment. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Let the games begin... > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player. > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us some > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the quickly > > approaching limit. > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule 314 > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 points. > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 06 10:23:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 18:23:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 78334 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 18:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 18:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:24:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA14368 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:23:11 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <9838bg+sj2u@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? In that case I'm against it. > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > amendment. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > player. > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us some > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > quickly > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule > 314 > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > points. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 06 10:30:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 18:30:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 17793 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 18:30:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 18:30:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 18:30:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2001 18:30:00 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:29:59 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Message-ID: <983ab7+rira@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2150 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.82.115.205 From: f_hemker@h... This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to accomodate a growing pool of players. Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem of amendment and re-amendment. It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more players. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? > > In that case I'm against it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > amendment. > > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > player. > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us some > > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > > quickly > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of Rule > > 314 > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but didn't > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > points. > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 06 10:33:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 18:33:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 99709 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 18:33:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 18:33:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:35:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f26IXuk48489 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:33:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c0a66b$e4a7fd60$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: <983ab7+rira@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:33:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Ahhh.... I was agin' it until I saw the reasoning behind it. Now I'm on the fence. I'll send my thoughts once I get them together. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:29 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us > some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem > of amendment and re-amendment. > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > players. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? > > > > In that case I'm against it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > amendment. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us > some > > > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > > > quickly > > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of > Rule > > > 314 > > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but > didn't > > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 06 11:24:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 19:24:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 47730 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 19:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 19:24:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 20:25:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21441 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:24:51 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:27:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <983ab7+rira@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" What happens when Steven bolts? Do we have to repeal 5 Rules? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 1:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us > some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem > of amendment and re-amendment. > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > players. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? > > > > In that case I'm against it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > amendment. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us > some > > > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > > > quickly > > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of > Rule > > > 314 > > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but > didn't > > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 06 13:15:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 21:15:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 44539 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 21:15:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 21:15:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 21:15:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:33:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 15:25:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 15:25:32 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:25:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: the previous vote Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000d01c0a65b$14501040$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0430f5633210631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Mar 01, at 11:32, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > He woulda been pissed, but if he didn't yet have assurance of the > > votes he coulda tried harder to persuade. > > > > You were not the only sign that it was already passed. > > > Don't want to make a big deal out of this, but the funny thing is that > I never tried to convince you because I wasn't online all day. Hence > the silence. It's funny that you read that meaning into it, because I > *could* have been screwed by it. I read the posts post-vote posting > and thought "Eug? WTF?" > I figured as much (that you were not online)and you got three points on credit here. I repeat my primary reasons for voting against A-I was preoccupied by things that effect my life in much bigger ways. (and was against earlier versions) B-I assumed it already passed anyway (primarily because three of you had expressed positive opinions about some form of the prop -- only secondarily E's impatience) > But my favorite is still the Emily story. > p. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 06 13:25:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 21:25:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 53277 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 21:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 21:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 21:25:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:43:51 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 15:35:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 15:35:29 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:35:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <983ab7+rira@eGroups.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0417b5143210631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Mar 01, at 18:29, f_hemker@h... wrote: > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > people would necesitate more rules. I am not sure why this is the case Like a tide rising to > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us some > room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem of amendment > and re-amendment. Laws can also be plain old repealed. There is also the option of making laws imutable The amendment process keeps the rules clear. Does the number six correspond to anything? > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > players. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? > > > > In that case I'm against it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > amendment. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us > some > > > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > > > quickly > > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of > Rule > > > 314 > > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but > didn't > > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 06 13:44:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 21:44:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 11364 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 21:44:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 21:44:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 21:44:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.94] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2001 21:44:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:44:09 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Message-ID: <983ln9+5vhi@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <0417b5143210631ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3164 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... No, the number 6 doesn't connect to anything other than my liking 30 as more than 25, but not too many. --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On 6 Mar 01, at 18:29, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > > people would necesitate more rules. > > I am not sure why this is the case > > Like a tide rising to > > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us some > > room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem of amendment > > and re-amendment. > > Laws can also be plain old repealed. > > There is also the option of making laws imutable > > The amendment process keeps the rules clear. > > Does the number six correspond to anything? > > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > > players. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > How do you type that sound Lurch used to make? > > > > > > In that case I'm against it. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:56 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > amendment. > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > Let the games begin... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend Rule 209. It gives us > > some > > > > > > breathing room to work with before we run up against the > > > > quickly > > > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also considered attempting the outright amending of > > Rule > > > > 314 > > > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but > > didn't > > > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 06 14:05:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 22:05:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 70189 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 22:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 22:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 22:05:48 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:24:26 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 16:16:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 16:15:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:15:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <983ln9+5vhi@eGroups.com> References: <0417b5143210631ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <042492624220631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" And if we approach 30 we will change it again. Why not simly change it some whole number. I do not see why if our population were 10, we would need 60 laws. How do additional players make the need for additional standing laws. On 6 Mar 01, at 21:44, f_hemker@h... wrote: > No, the number 6 doesn't connect to anything other than my > liking 30 as more than 25, but not too many. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > On > 6 Mar 01, at 18:29, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > This amendment allows > the possible number of mutable rules > > to change with the size of > our population. In my thinking more > > people would necesitate more > rules. > > I am not sure why this is the case > > Like a tide rising > to > > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > > > Right now, as the > rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > > rules. I think we > have 19 or 20 already. This would give us some > > room to grow > before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem of amendment > > and > re-amendment. > > Laws can also be plain old repealed. > > There is > also the option of making laws imutable > > The amendment process > keeps the rules clear. > > Does the number six correspond to anything? > > > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of > more > > players. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., > "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > How do you type > that sound Lurch used to make? > > > > > > In that case I'm against > it. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: > f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, > 2001 12:56 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: > [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > amendment. > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene > Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > Let the games > begin... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > > At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per > > > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this limit in > addition to, or instead of the 25 rule limit? > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > This, of course, would amend > Rule 209. It gives us > > some > > > > > > breathing room to work > with before we run up against the > > > > quickly > > > > > > > approaching limit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also considered > attempting the outright amending of > > Rule > > > > 314 > > > > > > > to something like: "All voting rights are inalienable," but > > didn't > > > > > > > think my stand on principle would get me anything but -10 > > > > > points. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Tue Mar 06 14:15:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 22:15:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 95041 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 22:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 22:15:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 22:15:12 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA11318 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037346@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Off topic "Beer" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:09:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Arturo, Bob" For all of you in NJ. Just wanted to let you know that in about =BD hour I will be at Andy's but only for one or two or three or well who knows.... * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copyin= g of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e....=20 From eventi@n... Tue Mar 06 14:17:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 22:17:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 16804 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 22:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 22:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 23:18:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA11563 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:17:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Off topic "You Suck" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:19:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037346@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 5:09 PM > To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) > Subject: [scatterbrains] Off topic "Beer" > > > For all of you in NJ. Just wanted to let you know that in about ½ hour I > will be at Andy's but only for one or two or three or well who knows.... > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Tue Mar 06 15:23:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 23:23:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 84167 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 23:23:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 23:23:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 00:24:05 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f270JKB29713 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:19:20 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA25458; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:23:00 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 In-Reply-To: 126a X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1662@w...> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:23:00 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... I've been giving it some more consideration, and I'm not as much opposed as I was. I still believe strongly that a limit to mutable rules is important, and I'm not certain that it should be raised just yet. I would have been unlucky number 26 if Pat's proposal hadn't been changed to amend 207, so I've been paying a bit of attention to the trend of proposing new rules instead of amending old ones. In software, there's a phase of development called a "feature freeze." Basically, it's time to fix the current bugs, and stop adding features. I think the time after 25 will be sorta like that. Of course, once the bugs are out, you start work on version 2 (add that animated paperclip?), and we don't have a provision for that (yet.) I'd like to see the limit of 25 stay for now, though. So maybe 5 rules per player. And to avoid the problem when someone leaves the game, the wording should prohibit introduction of new rules when they number greater than P*N, instead of "At no time..." --e -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to accomodate a growing pool of players. Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem of amendment and re-amendment. It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more players. -Fritz "At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player." From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 06 15:30:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 23:30:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 87648 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 23:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 23:30:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 23:30:56 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:49:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 17:41:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Mar 01 17:41:10 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:41:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Priority: normal References: 126a In-reply-to: <15308871.1662@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <045293449230631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Mar 01, at 15:23, eventi@w... wrote: > I've been giving it some more consideration, and I'm not as much > opposed as I was. I still believe strongly that a limit to mutable > rules is important, and I'm not certain that it should be raised just > yet. I would have been unlucky number 26 if Pat's proposal hadn't > been changed to amend 207, so I've been paying a bit of attention to > the trend of proposing new rules instead of amending old ones. > > In software, there's a phase of development called a "feature > freeze." Basically, it's time to fix the current bugs, and stop > adding features. I think the time after 25 will be sorta like that. > Of course, once the bugs are out, you start work on version 2 (add > that animated paperclip?), and we don't have a provision for that > (yet.) > > I'd like to see the limit of 25 stay for now, though. So maybe 5 > rules per player. And to avoid the problem when someone leaves the > game, the wording should prohibit introduction of new rules when they > number greater than P*N, instead of "At no time..." > But "once the bugs are out would mean that they could be tramsuted to imutable laws. > --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us > some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem > of amendment and re-amendment. > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > players. > > -Fritz > > "At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player." > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Tue Mar 06 15:44:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 23:44:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34035 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 23:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2001 23:43:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 00:45:04 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f270eIB05204 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:40:18 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA05603; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:43:58 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 In-Reply-To: 49230631 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1666@w...> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:43:58 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Good point. I'd still support a sliding scale for one reason. "Bug Squashing" (what goes on during the freeze) isn't much fun. Adding an animated paperclip is. ------ From: Subject:Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315[3AA57459] On 6 Mar 01, at 15:23, eventi@w... wrote: > I've been giving it some more consideration, and I'm not as much > opposed as I was. I still believe strongly that a limit to mutable > rules is important, and I'm not certain that it should be raised just > yet. I would have been unlucky number 26 if Pat's proposal hadn't > been changed to amend 207, so I've been paying a bit of attention to > the trend of proposing new rules instead of amending old ones. > > In software, there's a phase of development called a "feature > freeze." Basically, it's time to fix the current bugs, and stop > adding features. I think the time after 25 will be sorta like that. > Of course, once the bugs are out, you start work on version 2 (add > that animated paperclip?), and we don't have a provision for that > (yet.) > > I'd like to see the limit of 25 stay for now, though. So maybe 5 > rules per player. And to avoid the problem when someone leaves the > game, the wording should prohibit introduction of new rules when they > number greater than P*N, instead of "At no time..." > But "once the bugs are out would mean that they could be tramsuted to imutable laws. > --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 > > > This amendment allows the possible number of mutable rules > to change with the size of our population. In my thinking more > people would necesitate more rules. Like a tide rising to > accomodate a growing pool of players. > > Right now, as the rules stand, we can have a total of 25 mutable > rules. I think we have 19 or 20 already. This would give us > some room to grow before we begin on the cannabalistic regiem > of amendment and re-amendment. > > It also, I think, adds another impetous for the inclusion of more > players. > > -Fritz > > "At no time may there be more than 6 mutable rules per player." > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From eventi@n... Wed Mar 07 13:01:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:01:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 89529 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:01:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17699 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:01:13 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Ping!! Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:03:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Anybody there??? From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 07 13:06:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:06:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 10375 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 22:07:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-23.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.208]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f27L6kk52529 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:06:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c0a74a$6825cc60$d0a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:05:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > Anybody there??? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Wed Mar 07 13:13:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:13:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 42558 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:13:52 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19440 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:07:46 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037347@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:07:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74A.A57C5020" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74A.A57C5020 Content-Type: text/plain Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Ping statistics for bob: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM To: Scatterbrains Nomic Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Anybody there??? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74A.A57C5020 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74A.A57C5020-- From eventi@n... Wed Mar 07 13:17:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:17:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 31568 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:17:01 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA19783 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:17:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:19:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A722.591DB660" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037347@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A722.591DB660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!! Bob- You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Ping statistics for bob: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM To: Scatterbrains Nomic Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Anybody there??? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A722.591DB660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    GABBA=20 GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!!
     
    Bob-
        You are truly a geek.  Brings a little tea= r to my=20 eye!
          &= nbsp;=20 --e
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March = 07,=20 2001 4:08 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject:= =20 RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!!

    Repl= y from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Repl= y from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Repl= y from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Repl= y from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

     

    Ping statistics for bob:

        Packets: Sent =3D 4, = Received =3D 4, Lost =3D 0 (0% l

    Appr= oximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

        Minimum =3D 0ms, Maxi= mum =3D  0ms, Average =3D  0ms

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2= 001 4:03 PM
    To: Scatterbrains Nomic
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Pin= g!!

     <= /o:p>

    Anybody there???


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

     =

    Ping=20 statistics for bob:

        Packets: Sent =3D 4= ,=20 Received =3D 4, Lost =3D 0 (0% l

    Approximate=20 round trip times in milli-seconds:

        Minimum =3D 0ms, Ma= ximum=20 =3D  0ms, Average =3D =20 0ms

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:= 03=20 PM
    To: Scatterbrains=20 Nomic
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Ping!!

     =

    Anybo= dy=20 there???

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0A722.591DB660-- From barturo@e... Wed Mar 07 13:21:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:21:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 49412 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:21:18 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20336 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:21:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:15:06 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037349@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:14:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74B.A906E100" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74B.A906E100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When I grow up I want to be just like you.. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:19 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!! Bob- You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 Ping statistics for bob: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM To: Scatterbrains Nomic Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Anybody there??? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor AirForce.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74B.A906E100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A74B.A906E100-- From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 07 13:24:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 21:24:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 67706 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 21:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:24:24 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-23.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.208]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f27LOIk91873 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:24:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002c01c0a74c$db937100$d0a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037349@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:23:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A722.F142FE00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A722.F142FE00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keep it up, guys. Pretty soon I'll be posting entire Socratic dialogues. Nerds. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) When I grow up I want to be just like you.. =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:19 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) =20=20=20 GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!! =20=20=20 Bob- You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! --e -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! Reply from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255 Reply from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255 Reply from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255 Reply from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255 =20=20=20 Ping statistics for bob: Packets: Sent =3D 4, Received =3D 4, Lost =3D 0 (0% l Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum =3D 0ms, Maximum =3D 0ms, Average =3D 0ms =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM To: Scatterbrains Nomic Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! =20=20=20 Anybody there??? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 =20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 =20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A722.F142FE00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Keep it up, guys.  Pretty soon I'll b= e posting=20 entire Socratic dialogues.
     
    Nerds.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob

    When I grow up I want to be just like you..=

     <= /span>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2= 001 4:19 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Way= Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!)

     <= /o:p>

    GABBA GABBA WE ACCE= PT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!!

     = ;

    Bob-<= font color=3Dblack>

        = You are truly a geek.  Brings a little tear to my eye!

     = ;       --e

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2= 001 4:08 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!!

    Reply from bob: bytes= =3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply from bob: bytes= =3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply from bob: bytes= =3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply from bob: bytes= =3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

     

    Ping statistics for bob= :

        Packets: Sent =3D 4, Received =3D 4, Lost = =3D 0 (0% l

    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

        Minimum =3D 0ms, Maximum =3D  0ms, Average =3D  0ms

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2= 001 4:03 PM
    To: Scatterbrains Nomic
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Pin= g!!

     

    Anybody there???


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

     



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specifi= ed recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, pleas= e notify us at webmaster@e....

     



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:= 14=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way O= ff=20 Topic.... (Was: Ping!!)

    When I=20 grow up I want to be just like you..

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:= 19=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off=20 Topic.... (Was: Ping!!)

     =

    GABBA=20 GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!!

     

    Bob-

      &n= bsp;=20 You are truly a geek.  Brings a little tear to my eye!=

         &nb= sp; =20 --e

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Art= uro,=20 Bob [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:= 08=20 PM
    To:=20 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]=20 Ping!!

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

    Reply=20 from bob: bytes=3D32 time<10ms TTL=3D255

     

    Ping=20 statistics for bob:

        Packets: Sent =3D 4= ,=20 Received =3D 4, Lost =3D 0 (0% l

    Approximate=20 round trip times in milli-seconds:

        Minimum =3D 0ms, Ma= ximum=20 =3D  0ms, Average =3D =20 0ms

     

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:= 03=20 PM
    To: Scatterbrains=20 Nomic
    Subject:=20 [scatterbrains] Ping!!

     

    Anybo= dy=20 there???

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

     <= ![endif]>



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

    *=20 NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confident= ial=20 email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this=20 transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If=20 you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at=20 webmaster@e....
    <= SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext">

     <= ![endif]>

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0A722.F142FE00-- From f_hemker@h... Wed Mar 07 14:20:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 22:20:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 20700 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 22:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 22:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 22:20:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2001 22:20:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:20:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Way Off Topic For No Good Reason... (Was: Ping!) Message-ID: <986c7p+e418@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <002c01c0a74c$db937100$d0a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3171 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Worse: post commentary on Socratic dialogues. So, should I put my proposal to a vote then? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Keep it up, guys. Pretty soon I'll be posting entire Socratic dialogues. > > Nerds. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arturo, Bob > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:14 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > When I grow up I want to be just like you.. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:19 PM > To: scatterbrains@y... > Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > > GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF US!!!!!! > > > > Bob- > > You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! > > --e > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > Ping statistics for bob: > > Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l > > Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: > > Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > > > Anybody there??? > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e... From eventi@n... Wed Mar 07 14:26:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 22:26:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 35530 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 22:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 22:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 23:27:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28429 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:26:49 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: And back on Topic Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:29:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <986c7p+e418@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I think I'd be happier with 5 rules per person, and you really should change the wording. Read my post from last night. -e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:21 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Way Off Topic For No Good Reason... (Was: > Ping!) > > > Worse: post commentary on Socratic dialogues. > > So, should I put my proposal to a vote then? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Keep it up, guys. Pretty soon I'll be posting entire Socratic > dialogues. > > > > Nerds. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Arturo, Bob > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:14 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > > > > When I grow up I want to be just like you.. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:19 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > > > > > > GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF > US!!!!!! > > > > > > > > Bob- > > > > You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! > > > > --e > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > > > > > Ping statistics for bob: > > > > Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l > > > > Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: > > > > Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM > > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > > > > > > > Anybody there??? > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Mar 07 14:32:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 7 Mar 2001 22:32:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 51756 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 22:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2001 22:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 22:32:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2001 22:32:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:32:19 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: And back on Topic Message-ID: <986ctj+31l3@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4351 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Right, O'. I'll have something on your desk in the morning. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > I think I'd be happier with 5 rules per person, and you really should change > the wording. Read my post from last night. > -e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:21 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Way Off Topic For No Good Reason... (Was: > > Ping!) > > > > > > Worse: post commentary on Socratic dialogues. > > > > So, should I put my proposal to a vote then? > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Keep it up, guys. Pretty soon I'll be posting entire Socratic > > dialogues. > > > > > > Nerds. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob > > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:14 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > > > > > > > When I grow up I want to be just like you.. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:19 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Way Off Topic.... (Was: Ping!!) > > > > > > > > > > > > GABBA GABBA WE ACCEPT YOU, WE ACCEPT YOU ONE OF > > US!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob- > > > > > > You are truly a geek. Brings a little tear to my eye! > > > > > > --e > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:08 PM > > > To: 'scatterbrains@y...' > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > > > Reply from bob: bytes=32 time<10ms TTL=255 > > > > > > > > > > > > Ping statistics for bob: > > > > > > Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% l > > > > > > Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: > > > > > > Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:03 PM > > > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Ping!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody there??? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 08 07:02:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 15:02:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 96609 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 15:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 15:02:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 15:02:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.134] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 15:02:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:02:43 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <9886uj+pcf3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 263 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such that we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of the population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the population shrinks. Ideas? Maybe I just need more coffee... -Fritz From eventi@n... Thu Mar 08 07:36:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 15:36:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 85557 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 15:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 15:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 15:36:36 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25963 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:36:36 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:38:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <9886uj+pcf3@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such that > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of the > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > population shrinks. No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule when the number of immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number of players. Maybe I need more coffee too. > > Ideas? > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > -Fritz > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 08 08:14:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 16:14:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 88901 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 16:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 16:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 16:14:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 16:14:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 16:14:02 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <988b4a+lqdr@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1322 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an amendment comprise an additional mutable rule even though it replaces and eliminates a previous mutable rule? By your wording I could almost imagine that one might interpret it as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable rules reaches X. Then again, maybe not. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such that > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of the > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > population shrinks. > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule when the number of > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number of players. > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > Ideas? > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 08 08:34:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 16:34:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 42531 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 16:34:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 16:34:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 16:34:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA07756 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:34:44 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:36:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <988b4a+lqdr@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an amendment > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it replaces and > eliminates a previous mutable rule? I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should have said "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, amendment does not comprise an additional rule. > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might interpret it > as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable rules > reaches X. > > Then again, maybe not. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such > that > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of > the > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > > population shrinks. > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule when > the number of > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number of > players. > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 08 13:14:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 21:14:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 2084 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 21:14:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 21:14:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 21:14:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA19682 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:14:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:16:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Might we see a revision today? > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:37 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an amendment > > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it replaces and > > eliminates a previous mutable rule? > > I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should have said > "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, amendment does not > comprise an additional rule. > > > > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might interpret it > > as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable rules > > reaches X. > > > > Then again, maybe not. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such > > that > > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of > > the > > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > > > population shrinks. > > > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule when > > the number of > > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number of > > players. > > > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 08 13:34:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 54550 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 21:34:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 21:34:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:34:29 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <988tt5+701q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2946 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Things in the Senate have picked up a bit as of late. You'll have to forgive my slowness. Sorry, Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Might we see a revision today? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:37 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an amendment > > > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it replaces and > > > eliminates a previous mutable rule? > > > > I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should have said > > "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, amendment does not > > comprise an additional rule. > > > > > > > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might interpret it > > > as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable rules > > > reaches X. > > > > > > Then again, maybe not. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal such > > > that > > > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size of > > > the > > > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > > > > population shrinks. > > > > > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule when > > > the number of > > > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number of > > > players. > > > > > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 08 13:38:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 21:38:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 62311 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 21:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 21:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 21:38:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA22669 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:38:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:40:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <988tt5+701q@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Oh, like the _REAL_ senate... I get it. > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 4:34 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > Things in the Senate have picked up a bit as of late. You'll have > to forgive my slowness. > > Sorry, > Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > Might we see a revision today? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:37 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an > amendment > > > > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it > replaces and > > > > eliminates a previous mutable rule? > > > > > > I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should have > said > > > "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, amendment > does not > > > comprise an additional rule. > > > > > > > > > > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might > interpret it > > > > as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable > rules > > > > reaches X. > > > > > > > > Then again, maybe not. > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal > such > > > > that > > > > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size > of > > > > the > > > > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > > > > > population shrinks. > > > > > > > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule > when > > > > the number of > > > > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number > of > > > > players. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 08 13:40:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 8 Mar 2001 21:40:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 25367 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 21:40:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 8 Mar 2001 21:40:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 21:40:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2001 21:40:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 21:40:17 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <988u81+p34k@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4068 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... For example, right now I'm stuffing dear colleague lettters. Yeah, six years of higher education!!! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Oh, like the _REAL_ senate... I get it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 4:34 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > Things in the Senate have picked up a bit as of late. You'll have > > to forgive my slowness. > > > > Sorry, > > Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > Might we see a revision today? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:37 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an > > amendment > > > > > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it > > replaces and > > > > > eliminates a previous mutable rule? > > > > > > > > I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should have > > said > > > > "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, amendment > > does not > > > > comprise an additional rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might > > interpret it > > > > > as eliminating all proposals when the number of mutable > > rules > > > > > reaches X. > > > > > > > > > > Then again, maybe not. > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the proposal > > such > > > > > that > > > > > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the size > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) the > > > > > > > population shrinks. > > > > > > > > > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule > > when > > > > > the number of > > > > > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the number > > of > > > > > players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From f_hemker@h... Fri Mar 09 07:10:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 15:10:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1260 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 15:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 15:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 15:10:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 15:10:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:10:20 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <98aros+mmrf@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <988u81+p34k@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4864 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Proposal 315 No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or greater than six (6) times the number of players. End Proposal 315 This should take into account the possible contraction as well as expansion of the playing base. I still like six times better than five. I hope that won't be a deal breaker for the rest of you. Any tweaks? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., f_hemker@h... wrote: > For example, right now I'm stuffing dear colleague lettters. > > Yeah, six years of higher education!!! > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > Oh, like the _REAL_ senate... I get it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 4:34 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > Hearing > > > > > > > > > Things in the Senate have picked up a bit as of late. You'll > have > > > to forgive my slowness. > > > > > > Sorry, > > > Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > Might we see a revision today? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:37 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:14 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee > > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this what we want? Strictly speaking, does an > > > amendment > > > > > > comprise an additional mutable rule even though it > > > replaces and > > > > > > eliminates a previous mutable rule? > > > > > > > > > > I've been going by 103 for definitions; Perhaps I should > have > > > said > > > > > "enactment of" a mutable rule. By that definition, > amendment > > > does not > > > > > comprise an additional rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By your wording I could almost imagine that one might > > > interpret it > > > > > > as eliminating all proposals when the number of > mutable > > > rules > > > > > > reaches X. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then again, maybe not. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:03 AM > > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 315 Committee > > > Hearing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm having trouble thinking of how to word the > proposal > > > such > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > we have the number of mutable rules grow with the > size > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > population, but won't illegitimize rules if (god forbid) > the > > > > > > > > population shrinks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No player shall _propose_ an additional mutable rule > > > when > > > > > > the number of > > > > > > > immutable rules meets or excedes five times the > number > > > of > > > > > > players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I need more coffee too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I just need more coffee... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 09 08:04:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 16:04:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 48429 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 16:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 16:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 16:04:28 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20704 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:04:26 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:06:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <98aros+mmrf@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:10 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > Proposal 315 > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable > rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or > greater than six (6) times the number of players. > > End Proposal 315 > > This should take into account the possible contraction as well as > expansion of the playing base. > > I still like six times better than five. I hope that won't be a deal > breaker for the rest of you. Not a deal breaker, but I like the limit as is. That's why I suggested 5. Count me in. --e PS: How's it going with the envelopes? From f_hemker@h... Fri Mar 09 08:15:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 16:15:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 78217 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 16:15:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 16:15:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (208.50.144.77) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 16:15:40 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.102] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 16:15:40 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:15:36 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Message-ID: <98avj8+7q9u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1319 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Done, thankfully. Things around here are either feast of famine. For the last two days I've been too busy to breath. Today I'm reading "The Soul of Battle" by Victor Davis Hanson at my desk. That Epaminondas: what a badass. Unless someone has another objection I think I'll present the final version of Proposal 315 and then put it to a vote. I'll give you until this afternoon to voice your objections. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:10 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > Proposal 315 > > > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable > > rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or > > greater than six (6) times the number of players. > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > This should take into account the possible contraction as well as > > expansion of the playing base. > > > > I still like six times better than five. I hope that won't be a deal > > breaker for the rest of you. > > Not a deal breaker, but I like the limit as is. That's why I suggested 5. > Count me in. > --e > > PS: How's it going with the envelopes? From barturo@e... Fri Mar 09 09:47:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 17:47:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 75611 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA03332 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:47:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:41:43 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037351@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:41:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8C0.341989D0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8C0.341989D0 Content-Type: text/plain I was on the fence when I first saw it but did not do much thinking about it. I think we need this so OK -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 11:16 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing Done, thankfully. Things around here are either feast of famine. For the last two days I've been too busy to breath. Today I'm reading "The Soul of Battle" by Victor Davis Hanson at my desk. That Epaminondas: what a badass. Unless someone has another objection I think I'll present the final version of Proposal 315 and then put it to a vote. I'll give you until this afternoon to voice your objections. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:10 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing > > > > > > Proposal 315 > > > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable > > rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or > > greater than six (6) times the number of players. > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > This should take into account the possible contraction as well as > > expansion of the playing base. > > > > I still like six times better than five. I hope that won't be a deal > > breaker for the rest of you. > > Not a deal breaker, but I like the limit as is. That's why I suggested 5. > Count me in. > --e > > PS: How's it going with the envelopes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor [] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8C0.341989D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I wa= s on the fence when I first saw it but did not do much thinking about it. I thin= k we need this so OK

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001= 11:16 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee Hearing

     <= /o:p>

    Done, thankfully.  Things around here are either feast of famine. 
    For the last two days I've been too busy to breath.  Today I'm
    reading "The Soul of  Battle" by Victor Davis Hanson at = my desk.

    That Epaminondas: what a badass.

    Unless someone has another objection I think I'll present the
    final version of Proposal 315 and then put it to a vote.  I'll giv= e you
    until this afternoon to voice your objections.

    -Fritz

    --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" <eventi@n...>
    wrote:
    >
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    > > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:10 AM
    > > To: scatterbrains@y...
    > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 315 Committee
    Hearing
    > >
    > >
    > > Proposal 315
    > >
    > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable
    > > rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or<= /tt>
    > > greater than six (6) times the number of players.
    > >
    > > End Proposal 315
    > >
    > > This should take into account the possible contraction as
    well as
    > > expansion of the playing base.
    > >
    > > I still like six times better than five.  I hope that wo= n't be a deal
    > > breaker for the rest of you.
    >
    > Not a deal breaker, but I like the limit as is.  That's why I=
    suggested 5.
    > Count me in.
    >       --e
    >
    > PS: How's it going with the envelopes?



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8C0.341989D0-- From f_hemker@h... Fri Mar 09 11:56:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 19:56:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 99948 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 19:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 19:56:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 19:56:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 19:56:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:56:06 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Final Form of Proposal 315 Message-ID: <98bcgm+u46p@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 214 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Proposal 315 No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or greater than six (6) times the current number of players. End Proposal 315 From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 09 11:57:29 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22483 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 19:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 19:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 19:57:28 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.118] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 19:57:28 -0000 Date: 9 Mar 2001 19:57:27 -0000 Message-ID: <984167847.656.97169.fc@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Proposal 315 No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or greater than six (6) times the current number of players. End Proposal 315 o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 09 12:20:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 64890 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.56] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:20:13 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Final Form of Proposal 315 Message-ID: <98bdtt+9d0p@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <98bcgm+u46p@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 574 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 150.108.84.54 From: pkirklan@e... I am still not sure i see the need for this. I will give you once chance to appeal for my vote, but I am checking in from away for my desk so be snappy, and I will get my vote in today. (I guess we hae to wati unitl I get bak for the next proposal anyway. I have a coupel things in mind. --- In scatterbrains@y..., f_hemker@h... wrote: > Proposal 315 > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional > mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal > to or greater than six (6) times the current number of players. > > End Proposal 315 From eventi@n... Fri Mar 09 12:24:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 20:24:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 76094 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 20:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 20:24:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA21715 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:24:15 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: OT: Vote Already!!! Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:26:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <98bdtt+9d0p@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" WILL YOU JUST ... Sorry, couldn't resist... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 3:20 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Final Form of Proposal 315 > > > > I am still not sure i see the need for this. I will give you once > chance to appeal for my vote, but I am checking in from away for my > desk so be snappy, and I will get my vote in today. (I guess we hae to > wati unitl I get bak for the next proposal anyway. I have a coupel > things in mind. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., f_hemker@h... wrote: > > Proposal 315 > > > > No player may propose the enactment of an additional > > mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal > > to or greater than six (6) times the current number of players. > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 09 12:43:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 20:43:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 21524 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 20:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 20:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 20:43:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.51] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 20:43:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:43:05 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: beer Message-ID: <98bf8p+jbfs@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 296 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 150.108.84.54 From: pkirklan@e... Its not really about beer, but I want to estalbish taht as an offical weekly sign-off. I will see you on Monday with a proposal that mey help us to resolve the honors v payments issue. no fever, e? As far as I can see this current proposal is completely ineffectula if passed. O well. pk From f_hemker@h... Fri Mar 09 12:47:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 98132 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:47:42 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: beer Message-ID: <98bfhe+u5q8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <98bf8p+jbfs@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 593 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... You voted against it because it was ineffectual? So what? Frankly, effectual laws along the lines of the nacent Bernardo Tyranny scare the hell out of me. Here's to ineffectual laws that don't limit my liberty! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., pkirklan@e... wrote: > Its not really about beer, but I want to estalbish taht as an offical > weekly sign-off. I will see you on Monday with a proposal that mey > help us to resolve the honors v payments issue. > > no fever, e? > > As far as I can see this current proposal is completely ineffectula if > passed. O well. > > pk From barturo@e... Fri Mar 09 12:55:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 9 Mar 2001 20:55:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 51591 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 20:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2001 20:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 21:56:37 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA24993 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:55:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:49:21 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037354@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: beer Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:49:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8DA.6A5F47E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8DA.6A5F47E0 Content-Type: text/plain Chin Chin -----Original Message----- From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 3:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: beer You voted against it because it was ineffectual? So what? Frankly, effectual laws along the lines of the nacent Bernardo Tyranny scare the hell out of me. Here's to ineffectual laws that don't limit my liberty! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., pkirklan@e... wrote: > Its not really about beer, but I want to estalbish taht as an offical > weekly sign-off. I will see you on Monday with a proposal that mey > help us to resolve the honors v payments issue. > > no fever, e? > > As far as I can see this current proposal is completely ineffectula if > passed. O well. > > pk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click for Details Click for Details To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8DA.6A5F47E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Chin= Chin

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]
    Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001= 3:48 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Re:= beer

     <= /o:p>

    You voted against it because it was ineffectual?  So what? 
    Frankly, effectual laws along the lines of the nacent Bernardo Tyranny scare the hell out of me.  Here's to ineffectual laws that=
    don't limit my liberty!

    -Fritz

    --- In scatterbrains@y..., pkirklan@e... wrote:
    > Its not really about beer, but I want to estalbish taht as an
    offical
    > weekly sign-off.  I will see you on Monday with a proposal th= at
    mey
    > help us to resolve the honors v payments issue.
    >
    > no fever, e?
    >
    > As far as I can see this current proposal is completely
    ineffectula if
    > passed.  O well.
    >
    > pk



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A8DA.6A5F47E0-- From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Mar 12 05:32:41 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 47427 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 13:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 13:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 13:32:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.30] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 13:32:39 -0000 Date: 12 Mar 2001 13:32:39 -0000 Message-ID: <984403959.723.60878.qj@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 No player may propose the enactment of an additional mutable rule when the current number of mutable rules is equal to or greater than six (6) times the current number of players. End Proposal 315 CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% - No, 1 votes, 20.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - f_hemker@h... - barturo@e... - eventi@n... - bernardo@c... - No - pkirklan@e... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 12 06:51:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 14:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 73900 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 14:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 14:51:42 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f2CEpek34453 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:51:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000a01c0ab03$d56e4880$c0a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score report for Round 315 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:50:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Sing, O goddess, the proposal of Fritz son of Peleus, that brought countless points upon the Scatterbrainers. Many a brave soul did it send hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs and vultures. Thereon the seer spoke boldly: "For passage of Rule 315, Fritz shall receive 12 points. For voting against Rule 315, Paul shall receive 10 points." And the rest were angry, and went to their tents. EV:64 PB:60 FH:40.5 PK:40.5 BA:30 From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 12 09:12:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 17:12:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 37626 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 17:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 17:12:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:30:38 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:22:51 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:22:22 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:22:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <984403959.723.60878.qj@yahoogroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04afe3830170c31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does not do anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. I don't get it. Did I miss something? I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago and I still have class today. Pk On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > No player may propose the > enactment of an additional > mutable rule when the current > number of mutable rules is equal to > or greater than six (6) times the > current number of players. > > End Proposal 315 > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > - Yes > - f_hemker@h... > - barturo@e... > - eventi@n... > - bernardo@c... > - No > - pkirklan@e... > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 12 09:14:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 17:14:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 93439 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 17:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:15:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:32:38 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:24:51 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:24:31 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:24:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: beer Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98bfhe+u5q8@eGroups.com> References: <98bf8p+jbfs@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <048a23832170c31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" This is disappointingly not about beer. For response on substance see reply to results On 9 Mar 01, at 20:47, f_hemker@h... wrote: > You voted against it because it was ineffectual? So what? > Frankly, effectual laws along the lines of the nacent Bernardo > Tyranny scare the hell out of me. Here's to ineffectual laws that > don't limit my liberty! > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., pkirklan@e... wrote: > > Its not really about beer, but I want to estalbish taht as an > offical > > weekly sign-off. I will see you on Monday with a proposal that > mey > > help us to resolve the honors v payments issue. > > > > no fever, e? > > > > As far as I can see this current proposal is completely > ineffectula if > > passed. O well. > > > > pk > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 12 09:14:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 17:14:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 90611 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 17:14:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 17:14:49 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA19883 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:14:48 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:17:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <04afe3830170c31ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. Fritz? Intent? > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does not do > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > I don't get it. > Did I miss something? > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago and I > still have class today. > > Pk > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > final results: > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > No player may propose the > > enactment of an additional > > mutable rule when the current > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > or greater than six (6) times the > > current number of players. > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > - Yes > > - f_hemker@h... > > - barturo@e... > > - eventi@n... > > - bernardo@c... > > - No > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 12 09:22:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 17:22:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 65349 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 17:22:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 17:22:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:40:35 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:32:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 12 Mar 01 11:32:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:32:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <04afe3830170c31ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04b283540170c31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I understand that that was the intent, but did we not just have a lengthy discussion of how predence and amendment need to be written into the rules. I was very surprised not to see it there. Pk p.s. Depending on who thinks this is important, perhaps it should be worked out before I propose. I may be willing to fix it. I will back in a couple hours On 12 Mar 01, at 12:17, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. Fritz? > Intent? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does not do > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. I don't > > get it. Did I miss something? > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago and I > > still have class today. > > > > Pk > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > enactment of an additional > > > mutable rule when the current > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > current number of players. > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > - Yes > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > - barturo@e... > > > - eventi@n... > > > - bernardo@c... > > > - No > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 12 09:32:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 17:32:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 28993 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 17:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 17:32:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22379 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:32:23 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <04b283540170c31ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It had been in the original Proposal, but it was left out of the final. I didn't make any assumptions, I just didn't notice that it wasn't there. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:32 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > I understand that that was the intent, but did we not just have a > lengthy discussion of how predence and amendment need to be > written into the rules. I was very surprised not to see it there. > > Pk > > p.s. Depending on who thinks this is important, perhaps it should > be worked out before I propose. I may be willing to fix it. > > I will back in a couple hours > > On 12 Mar 01, at 12:17, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. Fritz? > > Intent? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does not do > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. I don't > > > get it. Did I miss something? > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago and I > > > still have class today. > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > - Yes > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > - No > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Mon Mar 12 10:43:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 18:43:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 81040 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 18:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:43:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.93] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2001 18:43:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:43:45 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <98j5d1+m5c2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2743 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. Let's imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense. Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's restriction and replaing it with another. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. Fritz? Intent? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does not do > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > > I don't get it. > > Did I miss something? > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago and I > > still have class today. > > > > Pk > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > enactment of an additional > > > mutable rule when the current > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > current number of players. > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > - Yes > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > - barturo@e... > > > - eventi@n... > > > - bernardo@c... > > > - No > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 12 14:28:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 12 Mar 2001 22:28:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 15256 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 22:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2001 22:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 23:29:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA01080 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:28:14 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:30:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <98j5d1+m5c2@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209. If there are any objections this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I really don't think there should be any problems. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. Let's > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense. > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's restriction > and replaing it with another. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. > Fritz? Intent? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does > not do > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > > > I don't get it. > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago > and I > > > still have class today. > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > the > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > - Yes > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > - No > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 13 07:37:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 15:37:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 56265 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 15:37:30 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2DFbQ672937 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:37:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001201c0abd3$647c70e0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:36:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hmmm. Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood. Although the author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that this means the form *after* we vote on the law. While this might be a useful technique :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy. That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now. I just wanted to point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert the system when it's just a little change in their favor. Just imagine if someone around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to do something devious. (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to Eug's monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power to alter a law after its final form has been determined and on which we have voted.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209. If there are any objections > this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I really don't > think there should be any problems. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. Let's > > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense. > > > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's restriction > > and replaing it with another. > > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. > > Fritz? Intent? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does > > not do > > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > > > > I don't get it. > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago > > and I > > > > still have class today. > > > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > > - Yes > > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > > - No > > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > friends! > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Tue Mar 13 07:46:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 15:46:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 3020 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 15:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 15:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 15:46:40 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21115 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:40:19 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03735F@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:40:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0ABD3.E57086A0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ABD3.E57086A0 Content-Type: text/plain Pat May I..... That is why we need a Chief Magistrate ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:37 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Hmmm. Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood. Although the author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that this means the form *after* we vote on the law. While this might be a useful technique :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy. That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now. I just wanted to point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert the system when it's just a little change in their favor. Just imagine if someone around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to do something devious. (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to Eug's monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power to alter a law after its final form has been determined and on which we have voted.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209. If there are any objections > this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I really don't > think there should be any problems. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. Let's > > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense. > > > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's restriction > > and replaing it with another. > > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. > > Fritz? Intent? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does > > not do > > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > > > > I don't get it. > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago > > and I > > > > still have class today. > > > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > > - Yes > > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > > - No > > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > friends! > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ABD3.E57086A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Pat<= o:p>

            &= nbsp;   May I…..

     

            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   That is why we need a Chief Magistrate ;-)

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 200= 1 10:37 AM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= Is a nice despotism still a despotism?

     <= /o:p>

    Hmmm.  Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood.  Although the
    author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that this m= eans
    the form *after* we vote on the law.  While this might be a useful technique
    :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy.
    That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now.  I just want= ed to
    point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert the syste= m
    when it's just a little change in their favor.  Just imagine if someone
    around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to do somet= hing
    devious.  (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to Eu= g's
    monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power to alte= r a
    law after its final form has been determined and on which we have voted= .)

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:30 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains

    > I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209.  If there are any objections
    > this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I rea= lly
    don't
    > think there should be any problems.
    > --e
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...]=
    > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains
    > >
    > >
    > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment.  = Let's
    > > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense.<= /tt>
    > >
    > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by  countering it's restriction
    > > and replaing it with another.
    > >
    > > -Fritz
    > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" <eventi@n...>
    > > wrote:
    > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendme= nt.
    > > Fritz? Intent?
    > > >
    > > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM
    > > > > To: scatterbrains@y...
    > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this r= ule does
    > > not do
    > > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant= to open.
    > > > > I don't get it.
    > > > > Did I miss something?
    > > > >
    > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back= to Chicago
    > > and I
    > > > > still have class today.
    > > > >
    > > > > Pk
    > > > >
    > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed.  Here are
    > > the
    > > > > > final results:
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315
    > > > > >
    > > > > > No player may propose the
    > > > > > enactment of an additional
    > > > > > mutable rule when the current
    > > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to
    > > > > > or greater than six (6) times the
    > > > > > current number of players.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > End Proposal 315
    > > > > >
    > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS
    > > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00%
    > > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00%
    > > > > >
    > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES
    > > > > > - Yes
    > > > > >      - f_hemker@h...<= /tt>
    > > > > >      - barturo@e...
    > > > > >      - eventi@n...
    > > > > >      - bernardo@c...<= /tt>
    > > > > > - No
    > > > > >      - pkirklan@e...<= /tt>
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit
    > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.co= m/group/scatterbrains
    > > > > >
    > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit=
    > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=
    > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made
    > > at
    > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com ha= s over 14
    > > million
    > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you= 'll find your
    > > friends!
    > > > > >
    > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > >
    > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_=
    > > > > > ->
    > > > > >
    > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email = to:
    > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > = http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yah= oo.com/info/terms/
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/inf= o/terms/
    >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= /
    >
    >



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0ABD3.E57086A0-- From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 07:57:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 15:57:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 33516 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 15:57:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 15:57:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 15:57:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 15:57:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:57:20 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Message-ID: <98lg10+qlj2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <001201c0abd3$647c70e0$c6a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6427 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Actually, having watched the Senate in action, I can assure you that they change their votes, minds, and laws after votes are counted all the time. It's called the conference committee where the House and Senate hammer out their differences. It's done through a process of Unanimous Consent (which we obviously don't have here). I don't see it as despotic at all. If someone objects, like Patrick, then it gets hammered out according to a strict reading of the rules. Otherwise, when no one objects, it gets done in a more efficient manner (Note: I am not a die-hard fan of efficiency, and this isn't intended as a slap at those who may have legitimate objections.). For instance, when something was clearly meant, but not explicitly said, either through oversite or an honest mistake, unanimous consent can be used to clean things up a bit, especially where a lengthy adjudication isn't really needed. Perhaps we ought to think about fleshing out this concept of unanimous consent? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Hmmm. Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood. Although the > author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that this means > the form *after* we vote on the law. While this might be a useful technique > :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy. > > That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now. I just wanted to > point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert the system > when it's just a little change in their favor. Just imagine if someone > around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to do something > devious. (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to Eug's > monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power to alter a > law after its final form has been determined and on which we have voted.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:30 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209. If there are any objections > > this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I really > don't > > think there should be any problems. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. Let's > > > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make sense. > > > > > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's restriction > > > and replaing it with another. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an amendment. > > > Fritz? Intent? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule does > > > not do > > > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to open. > > > > > I don't get it. > > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to Chicago > > > and I > > > > > still have class today. > > > > > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > > the > > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > > > - Yes > > > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > > > - No > > > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > > at > > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > million > > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! > > > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 08:01:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:01:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 77730 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:01:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:01:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:01:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.25] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 16:01:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:01:12 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Message-ID: <98lg88+58od@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <98lg10+qlj2@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 422 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... In any case, I think it's very clear from the language of the rule that it's an amendment. It explicitly changes the manner by which the maximum number of mutable rules is determined. My rule was obviously "the enactment, repeal, [and] amendment of a mutable rule," even if I didn't spell this out in 10 foot high flaming letters for all to see. What else could a reasonable person have imagined it to be? -Fritz From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 13 08:06:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:06:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 60883 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:06:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2DG6W676193 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:06:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003d01c0abd7$74df8d60$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <98lg10+qlj2@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:05:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > Actually, having watched the Senate in action, I can assure you > that they change their votes, minds, and laws after votes are > counted all the time. It's called the conference committee where > the House and Senate hammer out their differences. It's done > through a process of Unanimous Consent (which we obviously > don't have here). I don't see it as despotic at all. But this is *not* how our system works. That's the point of my objection. As I hope that you saw, I wasn't objecting to your law amending the old one (shit, I voted for it!) but I was objecting to the way that it was carried out. An ad-hoc "committee" composed of you and the King is *not* democratic at all. It's the process, not the content, that bothered me. p. From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 13 08:09:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:09:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 49335 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:09:13 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2DG9B676526 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:09:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004301c0abd7$d3c81f40$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <98lg88+58od@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:08:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Fritz, we just finished a discussion about this! It's not that you "didn't spell this out in 10 foot high flaming letters for all to see" bu that you didn't spell it out *at all*. If you intend to amend, you *must* say so explicitly in the law at hand. We all fucked up on this one (those who voted for it without reading it carefully are included). We ought to eat crow. Shit, I intended to win by proposing all my laws, does that meant that I can ask Eug to amend my laws so that they all say "And Pat wins"? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > In any case, I think it's very clear from the language of the rule > that it's an amendment. It explicitly changes the manner by > which the maximum number of mutable rules is determined. > > My rule was obviously "the enactment, repeal, [and] amendment > of a mutable rule," even if I didn't spell this out in 10 foot high > flaming letters for all to see. What else could a reasonable > person have imagined it to be? > > -Fritz > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 08:09:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:09:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 54277 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:09:41 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 16:09:40 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:09:38 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Message-ID: <98lgo2+kn44@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003d01c0abd7$74df8d60$c6a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1264 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Well, we could think of this as the Committee of the Whole, of which you are a member, and your objection is duly heard. I understand that the procedual may be the real problem here. Eugene stated publicly what he was going to do, in some sense he asked if there were any objections to the tweeking, and there were. Now what? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > Actually, having watched the Senate in action, I can assure you > > that they change their votes, minds, and laws after votes are > > counted all the time. It's called the conference committee where > > the House and Senate hammer out their differences. It's done > > through a process of Unanimous Consent (which we obviously > > don't have here). I don't see it as despotic at all. > > But this is *not* how our system works. That's the point of my objection. > As I hope that you saw, I wasn't objecting to your law amending the old one > (shit, I voted for it!) but I was objecting to the way that it was carried > out. > > An ad-hoc "committee" composed of you and the King is *not* democratic at > all. It's the process, not the content, that bothered me. > > p. From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 08:11:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:11:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 59060 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO b05.egroups.com) (10.1.2.184) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:11:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.67] by b05.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 16:11:18 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:11:14 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Message-ID: <98lgr2+psql@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <004301c0abd7$d3c81f40$c6a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1541 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... If you did that, I would, of course, have to object. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Fritz, we just finished a discussion about this! It's not that you "didn't > spell this out in 10 foot high flaming letters for all to see" bu that you > didn't spell it out *at all*. If you intend to amend, you *must* say so > explicitly in the law at hand. > > We all fucked up on this one (those who voted for it without reading it > carefully are included). We ought to eat crow. > > Shit, I intended to win by proposing all my laws, does that meant that I can > ask Eug to amend my laws so that they all say "And Pat wins"? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:01 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > > > > In any case, I think it's very clear from the language of the rule > > that it's an amendment. It explicitly changes the manner by > > which the maximum number of mutable rules is determined. > > > > My rule was obviously "the enactment, repeal, [and] amendment > > of a mutable rule," even if I didn't spell this out in 10 foot high > > flaming letters for all to see. What else could a reasonable > > person have imagined it to be? > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 08:13:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:13:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14918 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:14:37 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA24883 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:13:31 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:15:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001201c0abd3$647c70e0$c6a811d0@computer> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:37 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > > > Hmmm. Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood. Although the > author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that > this means > the form *after* we vote on the law. While this might be a > useful technique > :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy. I really don't see it as Fritz determining the final form after the vote. I think it was probably an oversite on his part, and he should have been more careful. > > That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now. I just wanted to > point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert the system > when it's just a little change in their favor. Just imagine if someone > around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to do > something > devious. (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to Eug's > monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power to alter a > law after its final form has been determined and on which we have voted.) Which is definately a bad thing. As I keep saying, if you don't like my powers, do something about it. Remember I edited yours a bit too... --e From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 08:15:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:15:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 86992 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.91) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:15:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.48] by jj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 16:15:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:15:39 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Oh, dear. Message-ID: <98lh3b+nh75@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 458 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... So, rule 315 conflicts with Rule 209 without explicitly amending or eliminating it. According to Rule 211, Rule 209 takes precedence over Rule 315 by virtue of having the lower number. Therefore, we have spent a week achieving nothing. There still may be no more than 25 mutable rules. Welcome to modern democracy. By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. -Fritz From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 08:17:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:17:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 76330 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:18:05 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA25328 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:16:57 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:19:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <98lg10+qlj2@eGroups.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 10:57 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > > > Actually, having watched the Senate in action, I can assure you > that they change their votes, minds, and laws after votes are > counted all the time. It's called the conference committee where > the House and Senate hammer out their differences. It's done > through a process of Unanimous Consent (which we obviously > don't have here). I don't see it as despotic at all. If someone > objects, like Patrick, then it gets hammered out according to a > strict reading of the rules. Otherwise, when no one objects, it > gets done in a more efficient manner (Note: I am not a die-hard > fan of efficiency, and this isn't intended as a slap at those who > may have legitimate objections.). > > For instance, when something was clearly meant, but not > explicitly said, either through oversite or an honest mistake, > unanimous consent can be used to clean things up a bit, > especially where a lengthy adjudication isn't really needed. > > Perhaps we ought to think about fleshing out this concept of > unanimous consent? > > -Fritz A great suggestion. The reality of it is that it's our game, and if we agree unanimously to a correction of the rules, what's the point in leaving it broken. Esp. between voting and posting. --e > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Hmmm. Right or wrong, we voted on this law as it stood. > Although the > > author may determine the final form of the law, I don't see that > this means > > the form *after* we vote on the law. While this might be a > useful technique > > :), I find that it's rather repugnant to the idea of democracy. > > > > That being said, I'm not going to fight this one now. I just > wanted to > > point out that everybody loves to break the rules and pervert > the system > > when it's just a little change in their favor. Just imagine if > someone > > around here who was not so nice tried to use this precedent to > do something > > devious. (Not to mention the fact that you're adding powers to > Eug's > > monarchy that he never had in the first place - now - the power > to alter a > > law after its final form has been determined and on which we > have voted.) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:30 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > I've added it as rule 315, and removed 209. If there are any > objections > > > this turn, I suggest that Fritz recuse himself as judge, but I > really > > don't > > > think there should be any problems. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 1:44 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > It wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't an amendment. > Let's > > > > imagine, just for a moment, that I was trying to make > sense. > > > > > > > > Rule 315 replaces the earlier rule by countering it's > restriction > > > > and replaing it with another. > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > I was voting under the impression that it was an > amendment. > > > > Fritz? Intent? > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:22 PM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Without amending anything the 25 rule limit, this rule > does > > > > not do > > > > > > anything, but fill precisely the space it was meant to > open. > > > > > > I don't get it. > > > > > > Did I miss something? > > > > > > > > > > > > I will have a proposal later today, I just got back to > Chicago > > > > and I > > > > > > still have class today. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pk > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Mar 01, at 13:32, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here > are > > > > the > > > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No player may propose the > > > > > > > enactment of an additional > > > > > > > mutable rule when the current > > > > > > > number of mutable rules is equal to > > > > > > > or greater than six (6) times the > > > > > > > current number of players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End Proposal 315 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > > - Yes, 4 votes, 80.00% > > > > > > > - No, 1 votes, 20.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > INDIVIDUAL VOTES > > > > > > > - Yes > > > > > > > - f_hemker@h... > > > > > > > - barturo@e... > > > > > > > - eventi@n... > > > > > > > - bernardo@c... > > > > > > > - No > > > > > > > - pkirklan@e... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you > made > > > > at > > > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has > over 14 > > > > million > > > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > your > > > > friends! > > > > > > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 13 08:19:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:19:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 81816 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:19:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2DGJK677751 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:19:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005b01c0abd9$3ef265e0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <98lh3b+nh75@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:18:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > Welcome to modern democracy. > > By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that > goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. > Oh, I know it! Sometimes I'm happier ignorant. But if you wanted to start an occasional "[Off-topic] Stories from the real Senate" thread, I for one, would read it avidly and be thankful... p. From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 08:21:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:21:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 86438 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:23:01 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA26076 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:21:54 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: Pope, damnit Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:24:13 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003d01c0abd7$74df8d60$c6a811d0@computer> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > An ad-hoc "committee" composed of you and the King is *not* democratic at > all. It's the process, not the content, that bothered me. > > p. Check the hat... I'm the Pope, not the King. --e From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 08:31:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:31:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14954 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:31:25 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA27405 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:31:24 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:33:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <98lgo2+kn44@eGroups.com> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:10 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > > > Well, we could think of this as the Committee of the Whole, of > which you are a member, and your objection is duly heard. > > I understand that the procedual may be the real problem here. > Eugene stated publicly what he was going to do, in some sense > he asked if there were any objections to the tweeking, and there > were. > > Now what? The only recourse is to call for judgment, and claim that I acted illegally in replacing 209, when it should have stayed... Then again, if no one does that, it stays. From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 08:37:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 16:37:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 35388 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 16:37:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 16:37:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 16:37:25 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA28323 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:37:24 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Second that!! Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:39:43 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <005b01c0abd9$3ef265e0$c6a811d0@computer> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > But if you wanted to start an occasional "[Off-topic] Stories > from the real > Senate" thread, I for one, would read it avidly and be thankful... > > p. Me too... From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 13 10:37:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 18:37:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 61589 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 18:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 18:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (10.1.10.49) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 18:36:44 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2001 18:36:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:36:39 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: OT: We Didn't Start Inquiry Message-ID: <98lpbn+6hak@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1482 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... We Didn't Start Inquiry (Sung--loosely--to "We Didn't Start the Fire") "All is water", "All is air", "There are numbers everywhere", apeiron and logos, Eleatic thought-block-- Sophistry, Socrates, Plato's reminiscences, Aristotle's physics (apriori / ad hoc). . . Hellenistic Hippo-crat--Ages Darken after that-- Abelard, Maimonides, Proslogion proof, Avicenna, Guanilon, Occam strops his razor on, Galileo drops the ball--inertia's set loose-- (chorus) We didn't start inquiry, But with ideas churning we can kindle learning-- We didn't start inquiry, But with questions going we can foster knowing! Descartes doubting everything, Leibniz's monads mirroring, Locke, Spinoza, Newton, Machiavellian prince, Reid maintains the will is free (Hobbesians compatibly) qualia's primarily the Berkeleyan sense. . . Hume causes Kant to wake, Kierkegaard gets into faith, Wollstonecraft, Kapital, the Origin's proofed, Nietzsche outwits superman, Mill's utilitarian, Peircean pragmaticism works up new truth-- (chorus) Russell's denotation scheme, Godel crushes Frege's dream, Popper, Whitehead, Dewey, James, Santayana, Royce-- Novel time of Einstein, tables turned by Wittgenstein, undetermined quantum cats that die by choice. . . Carnap, Tarski, Reichenbach, ordinary language acts, Ayer, Strawson, on "Two Dogmas"--gems true grue-- Anscombe, Kripke, Frankena, Dummett, Putnam, Plantinga, Barcan Marcus, Rorty, Lewis--even me and you! (Chorus and repeat) From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 13:38:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 21:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 31337 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 21:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:38:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:58:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 15:49:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 15:49:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:48:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005b01c0abd9$3ef265e0$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04f8b0058210d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I would read it On 13 Mar 01, at 11:18, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > Welcome to modern democracy. > > > > By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that > > goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. > > > Oh, I know it! Sometimes I'm happier ignorant. > > But if you wanted to start an occasional "[Off-topic] Stories from the > real Senate" thread, I for one, would read it avidly and be > thankful... > > p. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 13:38:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 21:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 28625 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 21:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:36:35 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:56:01 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 15:47:29 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 15:47:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:46:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98lh3b+nh75@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04f850156210d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Next time read first. I do not understand how all of you failed to notice. I was not at my own computer and took 15 minutes to read over things and vote so as to not hold up the vote. It was voted on as a new law and not an amendment, changing it requries changing it under the rules. E, where did this new found discretionary power come from? For god's sake the content of the law and much of the debate on it had to do with the difference between new laws and amendments. On the other hand, since we ALL want it to amend 209, I am sure we can come up with a democratic way to change it. Would a poll that was not a new proposal permit this after the fact adjustment, like that in conference committee? I am waiting to propose anything until this is resolved for now. On 13 Mar 01, at 16:15, f_hemker@h... wrote: > So, rule 315 conflicts with Rule 209 without explicitly amending or > eliminating it. According to Rule 211, Rule 209 takes precedence over > Rule 315 by virtue of having the lower number. > > Therefore, we have spent a week achieving nothing. There still > may be no more than 25 mutable rules. > > Welcome to modern democracy. > > By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that > goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. > > -Fritz > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 13:56:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 21:56:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 12740 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 21:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:56:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA17941 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:56:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:59:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <04f850156210d31ISWEBNT@d...> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 4:47 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. > > > Next time read first. I realize circumstances didn't permit, but next time try to follow the list for more than 15 minutes before voting. This was initially proposed as an amendment, all the discussion was consistant with an amendment, only the final form left out the "this amends" line. > I do not understand how all of you failed to notice. I was not at my > own computer and took 15 minutes to read over things and vote so > as to not hold up the vote. > It was voted on as a new law and not an amendment, changing it > requries changing it under the rules. E, where did this new found > discretionary power come from? I was born with it. I saw what I did as correcting an oversight on Fritz's part, not changing a new rule to an amendment. > For god's sake the content of the law and much of the debate on it > had to do with the difference between new laws and amendments. > > On the other hand, since we ALL want it to amend 209, I am sure > we can come up with a democratic way to change it. > > Would a poll that was not a new proposal permit this after the fact > adjustment, like that in conference committee? > I am waiting to propose anything until this is resolved for now. I'll draft a poll, although technically, you're right. There cannot be any changes to the Rules, except by the rules. If everyone's in agreement that the change should be made, and 213 should be overridden in this instance, I'll formalize it in the my next proposal. On the other hand, it's been done. If no one challenges my doing it, it stands. --e > > On 13 Mar 01, at 16:15, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > So, rule 315 conflicts with Rule 209 without explicitly amending or > > eliminating it. According to Rule 211, Rule 209 takes precedence over > > Rule 315 by virtue of having the lower number. > > > > Therefore, we have spent a week achieving nothing. There still > > may be no more than 25 mutable rules. > > > > Welcome to modern democracy. > > > > By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that > > goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 13:59:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 21:59:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 99050 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:59:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:19:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:10:48 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:10:34 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:10:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <98lgo2+kn44@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04e702019220d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I do not want to do this by a call to judgment if unnecessary, but this action completely undermines the rule-making function of the game. Under this scheme, proposals might as well take the form wouldn't it be nice if we could make 30 laws instead 25, and then it would be left to someone without the expressed authority to do so to work out all the detals. Sure, intention matters, but it is not the only thing that matters. If this was not the usurpation of authority, then this action implies that we voted on the intention of the law to amend 209. Well, for I voted on what the law said. Should Fritz be given, the three points he would have gotten had I voted for it? Should my 10 points be removed? I would have voted for it as an amendment. So we voted on two different things. It seems to me that we need some process before we can take the action E took. PK On 13 Mar 01, at 11:33, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 11:10 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Is a nice despotism still a despotism? > > > > > > Well, we could think of this as the Committee of the Whole, of > > which you are a member, and your objection is duly heard. > > > > I understand that the procedual may be the real problem here. > > Eugene stated publicly what he was going to do, in some sense > > he asked if there were any objections to the tweeking, and there > > were. > > > > Now what? > > The only recourse is to call for judgment, and claim that I acted > illegally in replacing 209, when it should have stayed... Then again, > if no one does that, it stays. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 13 14:09:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 22:09:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 46434 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 22:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 22:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 22:08:31 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2DLsI613082 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:54:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0ac08$0a4231c0$bba811d0@computer> To: References: <04f850156210d31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] A message from your friendly neighborhood SK Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:53:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > I am waiting to propose anything until this is resolved for now. > Keep in mind that Rule as written does not allow you to take time off for good behavior, because your cat is sick, or for any reason at all, including a dispute about the previous turn. Once "the last player has cast their vote", the clock starts ticking and only stops for federal holidays. So, just don't wait too long. From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 14:09:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 22:09:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 24901 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 22:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 22:09:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 22:09:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:29:15 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:20:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:20:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:20:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <04f850156210d31ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04e0a1529220d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 13 Mar 01, at 16:59, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 4:47 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Oh, dear. > > > > > > Next time read first. > > I realize circumstances didn't permit, but next time try to follow the > list for more than 15 minutes before voting. This was initially > proposed as an amendment, all the discussion was consistant with an > amendment, only the final form left out the "this amends" line. > Actually I did follow the debate enough to notice that the discussion implied amending 209, that was why I was so surprised when I saw that it was not written as an amendment . "read first" was a response to F's apparent epiphany on re-reading the earlier laws. > > I do not understand how all of you failed to notice. I was not at > > my own computer and took 15 minutes to read over things and vote so > > as to not hold up the vote. It was voted on as a new law and not an > > amendment, changing it requries changing it under the rules. E, > > where did this new found discretionary power come from? > > I was born with it. I saw what I did as correcting an oversight on > Fritz's part, not changing a new rule to an amendment. > > > For god's sake the content of the law and much of the debate on it > > had to do with the difference between new laws and amendments. > > > > On the other hand, since we ALL want it to amend 209, I am sure we > > can come up with a democratic way to change it. > > > > Would a poll that was not a new proposal permit this after the fact > > adjustment, like that in conference committee? I am waiting to > > propose anything until this is resolved for now. > > I'll draft a poll, although technically, you're right. There cannot > be any > changes to the Rules, except by the rules. If everyone's in agreement > that the change should be made, and 213 should be overridden in this > instance, I'll formalize it in the my next proposal. I was thinking of dealing with this right away. > On the other hand, it's been done. If no one challenges my doing it, > it > stands. > --e But, by the same reasoning you can undo it. That would not require a call to judgment. See other email for the problem. I think the fact that we voted on different things is important. If such a poll requires unanimity, it would have to be a re-vote on the proposal as amended. I voted on it as written. I would vote for it as an amendment BUT I would not say that that was my original understading at the time of my vote. > > > > > > > On 13 Mar 01, at 16:15, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > So, rule 315 conflicts with Rule 209 without explicitly amending > > > or eliminating it. According to Rule 211, Rule 209 takes > > > precedence over Rule 315 by virtue of having the lower number. > > > > > > Therefore, we have spent a week achieving nothing. There still > > > may be no more than 25 mutable rules. > > > > > > Welcome to modern democracy. > > > > > > By the way, I suspect that the kind of undemocratic shicanery that > > > goes on in the Senate would probably turn your hair white. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 14:17:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 22:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 49824 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 22:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 22:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 22:17:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:36:41 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:28:09 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 16:27:58 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:27:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] A message from your friendly neighborhood SK Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901c0ac08$0a4231c0$bba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04da44136220d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" The poll did not close until yesterday, right? I am not satisfied that this has yet been resolved, and I would rather not wait until the rule 26 comes up. I will propose soon, but I just don't want to change the subject yet. On 13 Mar 01, at 16:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > I am waiting to propose anything until this is resolved for now. > > > Keep in mind that Rule as written does not allow you to take time off > for good behavior, because your cat is sick, or for any reason at all, > including a dispute about the previous turn. Once "the last player > has cast their vote", the clock starts ticking and only stops for > federal holidays. > > So, just don't wait too long. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Tue Mar 13 15:49:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 13 Mar 2001 23:49:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 81706 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 23:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2001 23:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 23:49:47 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2E0jpB02747 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:45:51 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id SAA12227; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:49:46 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: We're in a bit of a pickle. Message-Id: <15308871.1700@w...> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:49:46 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we decide to do. And 111, and 116. I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if the final form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree now that it didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an amendment, and apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with good intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we may not be having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, and changing the history of 315 accordingly. The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since a majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it on the damn ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do so, though. If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder repeals 209. --e From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 13 16:54:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 00:54:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 35672 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 00:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 00:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 01:55:51 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:14:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 19:05:39 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 13 Mar 01 19:05:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:05:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <15308871.1700@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <050810914010e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 13 Mar 01, at 15:49, eventi@w... wrote: > Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we decide to > do. And 111, and 116. > > I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if the > final form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree > now that it didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an > amendment, and apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was > "inaffectual." > > I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with good > intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we may not > be having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, > and changing the history of 315 accordingly. > > The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since > a majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it on > the damn ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to > do so, though. If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some > do-gooder repeals 209. --e > I would like there to be a re-vote, but I am still not sure about the legality of such a move. Is F's turn over? Could we simply act as though it is not as long as we agree to that? IT is a bit of a stretch That would also mean undoing the scoring. I am willing to give up the ten points if I can see the legality of the act. We would have to say that the turn is not really over because we did not all really vote on the proposal (since we voted on different things) . WAIT WAIT I think I have another solution. With 315 on the books as a new rule the proposer of the 26th new rule could simply offer it as an amendment to 209. It woud then have a later number, and 315 would take precedence on the question of number of rules. It doesn't seem more questionable than anything else. What d'ya think? > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 13 21:05:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 05:05:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 16909 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 05:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 05:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 05:05:12 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA17815 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:05:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0ac44$7bbfe0e0$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <050810914010e31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:06:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > I would like there to be a re-vote, but I am still not sure about the > legality of such a move. Is F's turn over? Could we simply act as > though it is not as long as we agree to that? IT is a bit of a stretch > That would also mean undoing the scoring. I am willing to give up > the ten points if I can see the legality of the act. > We would have to say that the turn is not really over because we > did not all really vote on the proposal (since we voted on different > things) > . > WAIT WAIT > I think I have another solution. > With 315 on the books as a new rule the proposer of the 26th new > rule could simply offer it as an amendment to 209. It woud then > have a later number, and 315 would take precedence on the > question of number of rules. > It doesn't seem more questionable than anything else. > > What d'ya think? Better yet, the 26th would repeal 209, and open up 6 more mutable rules. As it stands, if one of us drops out, we could wind up with 24 and no conflict of the rules. I think this is better than voting again, but I wouldn't be opposed to repeating the vote. --e From barturo@e... Wed Mar 14 04:58:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 12:58:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 82850 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 12:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 12:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 12:58:38 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA16465 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:58:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:52:13 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037361@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:52:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC85.94B96620" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC85.94B96620 Content-Type: text/plain I also thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to a revote. -----Original Message----- From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:50 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we decide to do. And 111, and 116. I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if the final form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree now that it didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an amendment, and apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with good intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we may not be having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, and changing the history of 315 accordingly. The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since a majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it on the damn ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do so, though. If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder repeals 209. --e Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC85.94B96620 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I al= so thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to a revote.=

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 200= 1 6:50 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] We'= re in a bit of a pickle.

     <= /o:p>

    Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we de= cide to do. And 111, and 116.

    I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if the fina= l form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree now that it didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an amendment, and apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual."

    I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with good intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we may not be ha= ving this discussion at all.  I'll be returning it to the books, and changi= ng the history of 315 accordingly.

    The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since a majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it on the damn ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do so, though.  If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-goode= r repeals 209.
    --e



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AC85.94B96620-- From f_hemker@h... Wed Mar 14 06:22:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 14:22:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 88310 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 14:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 14:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 14:22:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:22:53 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. Message-ID: <98nurt+rni3@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037361@BATMAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3006 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... No to revotes. I think we ought to take our lumps, learn from our mistakes, and move on. I screwed up. We must read the rules carefully, faithfully to the text, and without pity. I think allowing a revote would pervert the spirit of the game. We must be hard and understand that we (I) should be more carefull in the future. Sorry for all this confusion. What we voted on was clearly not what I meant. However, what I meant has no objective standing in the game (I could be lying). We can only clearly judge what we voted on. Let's start the new turn with an essentially useless rule on the books, and hopefully someone will think to amend it to make more sense in the future. And since I don't always carefully read everything that's said here, some of this may be redundant, or worse, moot. Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > I also thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to a revote. > > -----Original Message----- > From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@y... > Subject: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. > > Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we decide to do. > And 111, and 116. > > I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if the final > form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree now that it > didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an amendment, and > apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." > > I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with good > intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we may not be > having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, and > changing the history of 315 accordingly. > > The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since a > majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it on the damn > ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do so, though. > If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder repeals 209. > --e > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > A=560428/*http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/magsubs/cc/subs/for tuneextnocc?E > FFORTKEY=FOBS0C9> Click Here! > > > 00057088:N/A=560428/rand=732646627> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... From eventi@n... Wed Mar 14 06:48:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 14:48:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 73774 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 14:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 14:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 14:48:25 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA25148 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:48:24 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:50:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <98nurt+rni3@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I don't see how we can re-vote with any opposition to it, so let's move on... Just for discussion, what would have happened if Paul had pointed out that it wasn't an amendment before the vote was over. Could you have "re-finalized" the proposal. I'd say yes. --e BTW: If all proposals from here on are for new rules, 26 falls on Bob. 315 was number 23. If the would-be 26 proponent repeals 209, that'll give up room for 6 more ((6*5)-(25-1)). > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:23 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. > > > No to revotes. I think we ought to take our lumps, learn from our > mistakes, and move on. > > I screwed up. > > We must read the rules carefully, faithfully to the text, and without > pity. I think allowing a revote would pervert the spirit of the game. > We must be hard and understand that we (I) should be more > carefull in the future. > > Sorry for all this confusion. What we voted on was clearly not > what I meant. However, what I meant has no objective standing > in the game (I could be lying). We can only clearly judge what we > voted on. > > Let's start the new turn with an essentially useless rule on the > books, and hopefully someone will think to amend it to make > more sense in the future. > > And since I don't always carefully read everything that's said > here, some of this may be redundant, or worse, moot. > > Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > I also thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to > a revote. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:50 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. > > > > Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we > decide to do. > > And 111, and 116. > > > > I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if > the final > > form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree > now that it > > didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an > amendment, and > > apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." > > > > I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with > good > > intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we > may not be > > having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, > and > > changing the history of 315 accordingly. > > > > The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since > a > > majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it > on the damn > > ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do > so, though. > > If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder > repeals 209. > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > mail/S=1700057088:N/ > > > A=560428/*http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/magsubs/cc/subs/for > tuneextnocc?E > > FFORTKEY=FOBS0C9> Click Here! > > > > > > > D=egroupmail/S=17 > > 00057088:N/A=560428/rand=732646627> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 14 06:53:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 14:53:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 99641 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 14:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 14:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 15:54:55 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-04.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.189]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2EErm699720 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:53:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601c0ac96$76254600$bda811d0@computer> To: References: <98nurt+rni3@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:52:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Fritz, you've finally said something that makes sense! :) Either that or I've had too much coffee again... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. > No to revotes. I think we ought to take our lumps, learn from our > mistakes, and move on. > > I screwed up. > > We must read the rules carefully, faithfully to the text, and without > pity. I think allowing a revote would pervert the spirit of the game. > We must be hard and understand that we (I) should be more > carefull in the future. > > Sorry for all this confusion. What we voted on was clearly not > what I meant. However, what I meant has no objective standing > in the game (I could be lying). We can only clearly judge what we > voted on. > > Let's start the new turn with an essentially useless rule on the > books, and hopefully someone will think to amend it to make > more sense in the future. > > And since I don't always carefully read everything that's said > here, some of this may be redundant, or worse, moot. > > Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > I also thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to > a revote. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:50 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. > > > > Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we > decide to do. > > And 111, and 116. > > > > I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if > the final > > form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree > now that it > > didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an > amendment, and > > apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." > > > > I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with > good > > intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we > may not be > > having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, > and > > changing the history of 315 accordingly. > > > > The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. Since > a > > majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it > on the damn > > ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do > so, though. > > If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder > repeals 209. > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > mail/S=1700057088:N/ > > > A=560428/*http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/magsubs/cc/subs/for > tuneextnocc?E > > FFORTKEY=FOBS0C9> Click Here! > > > > > > > D=egroupmail/S=17 > > 00057088:N/A=560428/rand=732646627> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 11:35:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 19:35:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 47486 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 19:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 19:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:54:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 13:46:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 13:45:51 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:45:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <98nurt+rni3@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <052013054190e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" My understanding would be that 26 could have other substance and simpliy include the line-- This rule amends rule 209. It's very existence would make the amendment necessary, and we would not need to waste any rules on repealing 209. PK On 14 Mar 01, at 9:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I don't see how we can re-vote with any opposition to it, so let's > move on... Just for discussion, what would have happened if Paul had > pointed out that it wasn't an amendment before the vote was over. > Could you have "re-finalized" the proposal. I'd say yes. > --e > > BTW: If all proposals from here on are for new rules, 26 falls on Bob. > 315 was number 23. If the would-be 26 proponent repeals 209, that'll > give up room for 6 more ((6*5)-(25-1)). > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:23 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. > > > > > > No to revotes. I think we ought to take our lumps, learn from our > > mistakes, and move on. > > > > I screwed up. > > > > We must read the rules carefully, faithfully to the text, and > > without pity. I think allowing a revote would pervert the spirit of > > the game. We must be hard and understand that we (I) should be more > > carefull in the future. > > > > Sorry for all this confusion. What we voted on was clearly not what > > I meant. However, what I meant has no objective standing in the > > game (I could be lying). We can only clearly judge what we voted > > on. > > > > Let's start the new turn with an essentially useless rule on the > > books, and hopefully someone will think to amend it to make more > > sense in the future. > > > > And since I don't always carefully read everything that's said > > here, some of this may be redundant, or worse, moot. > > > > Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > > I also thought it was amending 209. I would not be opposed to > > a revote. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: eventi@w... [mailto:eventi@w...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:50 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] We're in a bit of a pickle. > > > > > > Rule 106 is going to be a bit of trouble, no matter what we > > decide to do. > > > And 111, and 116. > > > > > > I don't think anyone has any objections to 315 amending 209 if > > the final > > > form of the proposal had explicitly said that, but we all agree > > now that it > > > didn't. Pat, Fritz and I voted for it, assuming it was an > > amendment, and > > > apparently Paul voted against seeing that it was "inaffectual." > > > > > > I see that dropping 209 was incorrect, even though I did it with > > good > > > intent, and if I hadn't pointed out the lack of amendment, we > > may not be > > > having this discussion at all. I'll be returning it to the books, > > and > > > changing the history of 315 accordingly. > > > > > > The only thing I think we can do, in light of 106, is re-vote. > > > Since > > a > > > majority of us thought it was an amendment, we could blame it > > on the damn > > > ballot. I do think we should be unanimous in our decision to do > > so, though. > > > If not, it'll have to stand as a new rule until some do-gooder > > repeals 209. > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > mail/S=1700057088:N/ > > > > > A=560428/*http://cgi.pathfinder.com/cgi-bin/magsubs/cc/subs/for > > tuneextnocc?E > > > FFORTKEY=FOBS0C9> Click Here! > > > > > > > > > > > > D=egroupmail/S=17 > > > 00057088:N/A=560428/rand=732646627> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > or copying > > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 11:50:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 19:50:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 54466 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 19:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 19:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 19:50:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:09:22 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 14:01:02 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 14:00:55 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:00:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: We're in a bit of a pickle. Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98nurt+rni3@eGroups.com> References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037361@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <053362209200e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" My goodness reasoned agreement. It is a beautiful thing. On E question about pointing it out during voting. I was operating under the impression that final proposal meant final, once the poll was opened, no changes were permitted. After all, is this not the reason for the whole debate, discussion, clarifiction period which is technically over when the poll opens. I was thinking about writing rule to allow for some sort of review of the amendment issue, but it seems to me that the name of the game is writing clear and effective laws and we certainly leave plenty of time for debate and review before proposals are finalized. My understanding is that as the rules stand final proposals cannot be changed at all, and I see no reason to change that. There may be times where a player does not want to point out a contradiction he sees until it is too late. e.g., if Fritz and no one else had noticed that Patrick's most recent rule had contradicted 207 while no one else did. He would want to keep quiet until it was passed so that it would have no effect. Paul K From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 12:51:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 20:51:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 39515 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 20:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 20:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mk.egroups.com) (10.1.1.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 20:49:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.133] by mk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2001 20:48:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:48:10 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 316 Message-ID: <98olea+eg3s@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 505 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Begin proposal The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End proposal From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 14 12:56:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 20:56:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 12575 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 20:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 20:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 20:55:51 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2EKtn638267 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:55:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001101c0acc9$0921fc00$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <98olea+eg3s@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:54:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, how is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we prevent abuses? p. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > Begin proposal > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. > Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject heading > Good Point 2xxx > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for > award). > A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such > points. > End proposal > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 12:59:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 20:59:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 68762 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 20:59:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 20:59:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 22:00:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:18:16 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:09:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:09:39 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:09:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98olea+eg3s@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <052b51618210e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 20:48, pkirklan@e... wrote: > > > > Begin proposal > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the discussion, > or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards will be numbered > sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be granted by public > declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) > award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must > be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End proposal > > This proposal is meant to encourage productive and cooperative rule-making by allowing possible awards to the contribution of new laws. Because points are a kind of honors, they should not be understood as finite, and thus we need to supplement point transfers with awards that benefit good action without harming any others. This may need to be limited in some way, but I think that can be worked out. My current thinkisn that we need either a review process OR a limit to number of points per turn per player, but not both. I am also thinking that one point per award and the need to state a reason might be limit enough. Any preferences? > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 13:02:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:02:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 58430 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:02:29 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:21:45 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:13:25 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:13:18 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:13:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001101c0acc9$0921fc00$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <050634521210e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, how > is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we prevent > abuses? > > p. They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is the real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow up. I am toying with a few ideas. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards will > > be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be granted > > by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name > > of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for award). > > A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such > > points. End proposal > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Wed Mar 14 13:06:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: Frederick_Hemker@m... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 69116 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailsims1.senate.gov) (199.95.76.9) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:06:54 -0000 Received: from imaexc1.senate.gov by mailsims1.senate.gov (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.07.30.00.05.p8) with ESMTP id <0GA7001QLGOPS4@m...> for scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by imaexc1.senate.gov (IMA Internet Exchange 3.13) id 00039B15; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:51:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:52:48 -0500 Subject: OT: Stories from the Senate To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com, dab2j@j..., freedj@y..., huntdamian@h..., CARRTAI@N..., carrie_tai@h..., fmkah@a..., jcornely@h... Message-id: <00039B15.C22180@m...> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: cc:Mail note part Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-From: Frederick_Hemker@m... (Frederick Hemker) From: f_hemker@h... Copied from the Congressional Digest: * Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., is accusing Democratic Gov. Paul Patton of spreading false rumors that he is fatally ill, the Louisville Courier-Journal reported today. Bunning said his staff has received queries about his health and whether he might be dying. "Who better to be served by that than my potential opponent in 2002?" questioned Bunning. A Patton spokesman discounted the accusations, saying, "The governor is focusing on the final days of this legislative session and other government business." Bunning, who said he is recovering well from gall bladder and adrenal gland surgery, made the comments in a weekly teleconference with reporters. From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 14 13:10:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:10:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 97589 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:10:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2ELAX640145 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:10:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003101c0accb$17c997c0$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: <050634521210e31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:09:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, but that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will come from the void. But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out points? The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it wants the selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your proposal confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no matter what you may think of it, they are the currency of the realm. p. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, how > > is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we prevent > > abuses? > > > > p. > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > award contributions to the general good. > Points are like academy awards (the judgment of the academy not > the statuette itself is the real honor) > On preventing abuses, see my originial follow up. I am toying with a > few ideas. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards will > > > be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be granted > > > by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name > > > of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for award). > > > A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such > > > points. End proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > > iWin.com for your chance to win! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Wed Mar 14 13:24:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:24:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 89257 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 22:25:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA15521 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:24:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:26:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <001101c0acc9$0921fc00$c0a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Good Point!! What's to stop us from doing this now? These "good points" must have some official meaning, or the rule would have no effect. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:55 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, how is > this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we prevent abuses? > > p. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. > > Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject heading > > Good Point 2xxx > > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason for > > award). > > A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such > > points. > > End proposal > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 13:40:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:40:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 60798 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:40:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:59:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:51:03 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:50:44 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:50:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003101c0accb$17c997c0$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <051452359210e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from when they awareded for a successful proposal. On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, but > that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will come from > the void. > yes, I skipped that step. > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out points? > The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it wants the > selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your proposal > confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no matter what > you may think of it, they are the currency of the realm. But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that values wealth more than honor. Go ahead and pick on the example, when I tried to be topical. Fine, points are olympic medals. > > p. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, > > > how is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we > > > prevent abuses? > > > > > > p. > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is the > > real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow up. I am > > toying with a few ideas. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards > > > > will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be > > > > granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point > > > > 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point > > > > for(reason for award). A reason must be publicly stated for the > > > > awarding of all such points. End proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > > > iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 13:42:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 21:42:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 60115 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:41:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 21:41:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 22:42:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:00:52 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:52:32 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 15:52:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:52:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001101c0acc9$0921fc00$c0a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0522b5200220e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" They include a point (the kind you score) for a good point (the kind you make in an argument) from the collected wealth. On 14 Mar 01, at 16:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Good Point!! What's to stop us from doing this now? These "good > points" must have some official meaning, or the rule would have no > effect. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:55 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, > > how is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we > > prevent abuses? > > > > p. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards > > > will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be > > > granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx > > > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point for(reason > > > for award). A reason must be publicly stated for the awarding of > > > all such points. End proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 14:00:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 22:00:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 28580 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 22:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 22:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:02:01 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:20:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 16:11:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 16:11:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:11:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: the stork brings them. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <053941020220e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Where do points come from? ? Forget all the political jargon This is a game: Where do points come from in all games? They come from the rules of the game. In this game we make the rules; so we decide where points come from. The question is do we want to award points for good contributions to debate or not? From eventi@n... Wed Mar 14 14:01:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 22:01:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 10989 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 22:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 22:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:02:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA19727 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:01:03 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Good point virus!!! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:03:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ; in rebol: forever [ msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: gp_count + 1 wait 5 ] # perl $gp_count = 2001; while (1) { open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" eventi\@yahoo.com"; print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; $gp_count++; close MAIL; } From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 14:09:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 22:09:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 33401 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 22:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 22:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 22:09:24 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:28:37 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 16:20:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 16:20:15 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:20:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Good point virus!!! Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <051da3728220e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Are you screwing with me? On 14 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > ; in rebol: > forever [ > msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're > special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: > gp_count + 1 wait 5 > ] > > # perl > $gp_count = 2001; > while (1) { > open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" > eventi\@yahoo.com"; > print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; > $gp_count++; > close MAIL; > } > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Wed Mar 14 14:25:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 22:25:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 77661 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 22:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 22:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:26:12 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA22016 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:24:58 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Good point virus!!! Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:27:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <051da3728220e31ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Are you screwing with me? Good point!! If you mean "Does that work?" the first one produces around 8/second, requiring about 25 seconds to win the game. What I didn't get from the initial proposal was that these were actual (1/200th of a win) points being handed out. I don't think you'll persuade me to vote for this one. It's just too easy. There has to be some basis for the award, or at least some trade off. --e > > On 14 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > ; in rebol: > > forever [ > > msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're > > special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: > > gp_count + 1 wait 5 > > ] > > > > # perl > > $gp_count = 2001; > > while (1) { > > open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" > > eventi\@yahoo.com"; > > print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; > > $gp_count++; > > close MAIL; > > } > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 14 14:37:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 22:37:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 85681 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 22:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 22:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:38:32 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2EMbP683379 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:37:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0acd7$3a0c3ac0$bba811d0@computer> To: References: <051452359210e31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:36:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Now you've moved to arguing only on the grounds of material causality. My question about "where do points come from" was not because I'm opposed to the creation of points from the void, but that point needed clarification. As SK, at least, I have to know whether or not to deduct a point from somewhere when scoring a point. My objection is based on the fact that points are currently currency. Your proposal argues that points should now be understood simply as honorable. But giving points means making someone more likely to win. Thus it falls into the acquisitive sphere, and it's not simply honorable. If you want to create a system of honors, then you need to set up another system. For instance HP's (honorable points), which may perhaps be cashed in for titles. After gathering 20 HP's, you get to be duke or something. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are > created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from > when they awareded for a successful proposal. > > On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, but > > that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will come from > > the void. > > > yes, I skipped that step. > > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out points? > > The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it wants the > > selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your proposal > > confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no matter what > > you may think of it, they are the currency of the realm. > > But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no > matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. > > Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many > other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that values > wealth more than honor. > Go ahead and pick on the example, when I tried to be topical. > > Fine, points are olympic medals. > > > > > p. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the player, > > > > how is this different from a transfer? If from space, how do we > > > > prevent abuses? > > > > > > > > p. > > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is the > > > real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow up. I am > > > toying with a few ideas. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any other > > > > > player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the > > > > > discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point awards > > > > > will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 Awards will be > > > > > granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point > > > > > 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) a point > > > > > for(reason for award). A reason must be publicly stated for the > > > > > awarding of all such points. End proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > > > > iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 15:22:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 23:22:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 12849 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 23:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 23:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:21:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:40:54 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:32:35 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:32:34 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:32:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Good point virus!!! Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <051da3728220e31ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <050cd5440230e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Actually what came through was jibberish to me, so i did not see your point. As I stated, I am willing to work out some limits, and I am requesting the opinion of the members of the community on their preferece for a review process or a simple point limit. (I just do not want the validity fo the "point:" in question to be grounds for judgment) how about No player may avoid any other single player more than one point per turn. On 14 Mar 01, at 17:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Are you screwing with me? > > Good point!! > > If you mean "Does that work?" the first one produces around 8/second, > requiring about 25 seconds to win the game. > > What I didn't get from the initial proposal was that these were actual > (1/200th of a win) points being handed out. I don't think you'll > persuade me to vote for this one. It's just too easy. There has to > be some basis for the award, or at least some trade off. > --e > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > ; in rebol: > > > forever [ > > > msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're > > > special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: > > > gp_count + 1 wait 5 > > > ] > > > > > > # perl > > > $gp_count = 2001; > > > while (1) { > > > open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" > > > eventi\@yahoo.com"; > > > print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; > > > $gp_count++; > > > close MAIL; > > > } > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 15:37:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 23:37:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 62481 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 23:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 23:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:36:59 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:56:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:47:55 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:47:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:47:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001701c0acd7$3a0c3ac0$bba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0506f1456230e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 17:36, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Now you've moved to arguing only on the grounds of material causality. > My question about "where do points come from" was not because I'm > opposed to the creation of points from the void, but that point needed > clarification. As SK, at least, I have to know whether or not to > deduct a point from somewhere when scoring a point. so far you have convinced me that I need to clarify the language. > > My objection is based on the fact that points are currently currency. Huh? The cheif way to get points is by having you proposal passed. Explain how the currency metaphor works. In the metaphoric language, describe winning the game. > Your proposal argues that points should now be understood simply as > honorable. But giving points means making someone more likely to win. > Thus it falls into the acquisitive sphere, and it's not simply > honorable. "Honors" or awards not every way of getting "honors" is honorable in a system that is imperfect If you want to create a system of honors, then you need to > set up another system. For instance HP's (honorable points), which > may perhaps be cashed in for titles. After gathering 20 HP's, you get > to be duke or something. > You are doing precisely what you accused others of doing with regard to your slavery language. The proposal does not requrie the acceptance of any theory of what points are. It simply allows a player to award another player for doing something that is of service to the whole. It does not contradict any other way of treating points; it simply adds one. A technical foul provision has no effect on the fact that a line establishes a three point shot in basketball. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are > > created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from when > > they awareded for a successful proposal. > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, > > > but that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will > > > come from the void. > > > > > yes, I skipped that step. > > > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out > > > points? The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it > > > wants the selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your > > > proposal confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no > > > matter what you may think of it, they are the currency of the > > > realm. > > > > But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no > > matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. > > > > Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many > > other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that > > values wealth more than honor. Go ahead and pick on the example, > > when I tried to be topical. > > > > Fine, points are olympic medals. > > > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the > > > > > player, how is this different from a transfer? If from space, > > > > > how do we prevent abuses? > > > > > > > > > > p. > > > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is > > > > the real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow > > > > up. I am toying with a few ideas. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any > > > > > > other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to > > > > > > the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point > > > > > > awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > > > > > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject > > > > > > heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of > > > > > > recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must be > > > > > > publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End > > > > > > proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come > > > > > to iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 15:38:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 23:38:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 62511 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 23:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 23:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 23:37:59 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:57:13 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:48:55 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:48:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:48:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT (sort of) Dukes and rich guys Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001701c0acd7$3a0c3ac0$bba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <051d31357230e31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 17:36, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Now you've moved to arguing only on the grounds of material causality. > My question about "where do points come from" was not because I'm > opposed to the creation of points from the void, but that point needed > clarification. As SK, at least, I have to know whether or not to > deduct a point from somewhere when scoring a point. > > My objection is based on the fact that points are currently currency. > Your proposal argues that points should now be understood simply as > honorable. But giving points means making someone more likely to win. > Thus it falls into the acquisitive sphere, and it's not simply > honorable. If you want to create a system of honors, then you need to > set up another system. For instance HP's (honorable points), which > may perhaps be cashed in for titles. After gathering 20 HP's, you get > to be duke or something. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are > > created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from when > > they awareded for a successful proposal. > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, > > > but that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will > > > come from the void. > > > > > yes, I skipped that step. > > > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out > > > points? The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it > > > wants the selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your > > > proposal confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no > > > matter what you may think of it, they are the currency of the > > > realm. > > > > But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no > > matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. > > > > Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many > > other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that > > values wealth more than honor. Go ahead and pick on the example, > > when I tried to be topical. > > > > Fine, points are olympic medals. > > > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the > > > > > player, how is this different from a transfer? If from space, > > > > > how do we prevent abuses? > > > > > > > > > > p. > > > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is > > > > the real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow > > > > up. I am toying with a few ideas. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any > > > > > > other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to > > > > > > the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point > > > > > > awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > > > > > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject > > > > > > heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of > > > > > > recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must be > > > > > > publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End > > > > > > proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come > > > > > to iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 15:45:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 14 Mar 2001 23:45:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 80574 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 23:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2001 23:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 00:46:28 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:04:38 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:56:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 17:56:03 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:56:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ot: (sort of ) Dukes and rich guys Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001701c0acd7$3a0c3ac0$bba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <051483804000f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" If you want to create a system of honors, then you need to > set up another system. For instance HP's (honorable points), which > may perhaps be cashed in for titles. After gathering 20 HP's, you get > to be duke or something. > Actually I was thinking exactly the reverse of this when we were establishing the system of exchange, and I even thought we might establish the currency of the Bier (much more fun if it might be trasnslated into real life beers) for exchange. But, it would be difficult for this to mean anything. Then I realized, the game does not demand a consistent treatment of points as honors or currency. As it stands it something of a system of corrupt honors (meant techinically because they are exchangable). There is no reason not to do both at once. If there were no limit, this means of scoring points would change the nature of the game, with a one point limit, it is a side effect that will allow public recognition and some gain. I will rewrite when I get time, but consider a one point limit per player per turn the current limit. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are > > created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from when > > they awareded for a successful proposal. > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, > > > but that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will > > > come from the void. > > > > > yes, I skipped that step. > > > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out > > > points? The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it > > > wants the selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your > > > proposal confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no > > > matter what you may think of it, they are the currency of the > > > realm. > > > > But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no > > matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. > > > > Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many > > other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that > > values wealth more than honor. Go ahead and pick on the example, > > when I tried to be topical. > > > > Fine, points are olympic medals. > > > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the > > > > > player, how is this different from a transfer? If from space, > > > > > how do we prevent abuses? > > > > > > > > > > p. > > > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is > > > > the real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow > > > > up. I am toying with a few ideas. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any > > > > > > other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to > > > > > > the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point > > > > > > awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > > > > > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject > > > > > > heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of > > > > > > recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must be > > > > > > publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End > > > > > > proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come > > > > > to iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Wed Mar 14 16:38:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 00:38:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 86137 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 00:38:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 00:38:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 00:38:28 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2F1YTB13625 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:34:29 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA16432; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:38:27 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Good point virus!!! In-Reply-To: 40230e31 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1712@w...> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:38:27 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Once again, forgive the formatting of this. Col. Mustard, with the pager, on the A train. ------ PK: Actually what came through was jibberish to me, so i did not see your point. EV: I know how you feel... A lot of the poli-sci jargon is lost on me too. PK:As I stated, I am willing to work out some limits, and I am requesting the opinion of the members of the community on their preferece for a review process or a simple point limit. (I just do not want the validity fo the "point:" in question to be grounds for judgment) EV: I just don't see that it's a good idea. On the one hand, we are using points as currency, and the creation of points devalues them. What would be a valid objection to such an award, if not for the merits of it? PK:how about No player may avoid any other single player more than one point per turn. EV: How about increasing the reward for passed proposals? How about eliminating the reward for voting against popular proposals? Some of us are more likely to get points for "Good Points" than others, and I think that bothers me the most. BA told me that during the Feb. floods, he would read a message, and the replies to it, and invariably someone would reply with the statement he wanted to say. I'd hate to have to rush to be the first with some clever observation, only to possibly gain a point, or I might hesitate in posting my point, to allow time for someone else to reply if I've already secured my point. --e On 14 Mar 01, at 17:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Are you screwing with me? > > Good point!! > > If you mean "Does that work?" the first one produces around 8/second, > requiring about 25 seconds to win the game. > > What I didn't get from the initial proposal was that these were actual > (1/200th of a win) points being handed out. I don't think you'll > persuade me to vote for this one. It's just too easy. There has to > be some basis for the award, or at least some trade off. > --e > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > ; in rebol: > > > forever [ > > > msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're > > > special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: > > > gp_count + 1 wait 5 > > > ] > > > > > > # perl > > > $gp_count = 2001; > > > while (1) { > > > open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" > > > eventi\@yahoo.com"; > > > print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; > > > $gp_count++; > > > close MAIL; > > > } > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From eventi@w... Wed Mar 14 17:03:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 01:03:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 56467 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:04:17 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2F1xEB24001 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:59:14 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id UAA29091; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:03:12 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Dukes and rich guys In-Reply-To: 4000f31 X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1716@w...> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:03:12 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... To be honest, I like pat's idea better. If we had a system to bestow honor points on a player for acting "honorably", which could then be exchanged for additional privelage in the game. These points could then be taken away for acting 'dishonorably', and would be a reflection of how the player is esteemed among his peers. This is pretty far from the original proposal, though. ------ Subject:[scatterbrains] ot: (sort of ) Dukes and rich guys If you want to create a system of honors, then you need to > set up another system. For instance HP's (honorable points), which > may perhaps be cashed in for titles. After gathering 20 HP's, you get > to be duke or something. > Actually I was thinking exactly the reverse of this when we were establishing the system of exchange, and I even thought we might establish the currency of the Bier (much more fun if it might be trasnslated into real life beers) for exchange. But, it would be difficult for this to mean anything. Then I realized, the game does not demand a consistent treatment of points as honors or currency. As it stands it something of a system of corrupt honors (meant techinically because they are exchangable). There is no reason not to do both at once. If there were no limit, this means of scoring points would change the nature of the game, with a one point limit, it is a side effect that will allow public recognition and some gain. I will rewrite when I get time, but consider a one point limit per player per turn the current limit. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > But I do not understand why we presume they are finite, points are > > created ex nihilo all the time. Where do the points come from when > > they awareded for a successful proposal. > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 16:09, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > I was asking about the material cause, not the effective cause, > > > but that's ok. I take it from your answer that the points will > > > come from the void. > > > > > yes, I skipped that step. > > > But if points are "like academy awards" why are we giving out > > > points? The academy doesn't award cash for the reason that it > > > wants the selection and not the prize to be the reward. So your > > > proposal confuses the issue. Points are points are points, and no > > > matter what you may think of it, they are the currency of the > > > realm. > > > > But they are not currently finite. They can be exchanged (no > > matter what I think of that) but they can also be created. > > > > Granted academy awards come with financial prizes as do many > > other awards, but that it is a sign of our corrupt regime that > > values wealth more than honor. Go ahead and pick on the example, > > when I tried to be topical. > > > > Fine, points are olympic medals. > > > > > > > > p. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:13 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 15:54, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Where do the points that you award come from? If from the > > > > > player, how is this different from a transfer? If from space, > > > > > how do we prevent abuses? > > > > > > > > > > p. > > > > They need not come from anywhere but the scatterbrains desire to > > > > award contributions to the general good. Points are like academy > > > > awards (the judgment of the academy not the statuette itself is > > > > the real honor) On preventing abuses, see my originial follow > > > > up. I am toying with a few ideas. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:48 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Begin proposal > > > > > > The good point rule. Any player may at any time award any > > > > > > other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to > > > > > > the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. Good point > > > > > > awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > > > > > Awards will be granted by public declaration with subject > > > > > > heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of > > > > > > recipient) a point for(reason for award). A reason must be > > > > > > publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. End > > > > > > proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come > > > > > to iWin.com for your chance to win! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 18:00:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 02:00:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 84996 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 02:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:00:29 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:19:43 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 20:11:25 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 20:11:12 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:11:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: re[2]: [scatterbrains] Good point virus!!! Priority: normal References: 40230e31 In-reply-to: <15308871.1712@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0515d4319020f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 16:38, eventi@w... wrote: > Once again, forgive the formatting of this. Col. Mustard, with the > pager, on the A train. ------ PK: Actually what came through was > jibberish to me, so i did not see your point. > > EV: I know how you feel... A lot of the poli-sci jargon is lost on me > too. > actually I mistook it as a mess because I am used to reading English prose and it looked like a messge that was not transmitted properly. I mistakenly jumped to the conclusion that you were pretending there was a virus attached to the message to subvert the discussion. On re-reading it actually makes sense, but I had already commented that I intended to add a limit and was asking advice on what form it should take. It certainly would not permit more than one point for the same "reason" > PK:As I stated, I am willing to work out some limits, and I am > requesting the opinion of the members of the community on their > preferece for a review process or a simple point limit. (I just do not > want the validity fo the "point:" in question to be grounds for > judgment) > > EV: I just don't see that it's a good idea. On the one hand, we are > using points as currency, and the creation of points devalues them. > What would be a valid objection to such an award, if not for the > merits of it? > > PK:how about > > No player may avoid any other single player more than one point > per turn. > > EV: How about increasing the reward for passed proposals? How about > eliminating the reward for voting against popular proposals? > Well those are different proposals that I thought about. This would allow a player to give another player one (one little point) to a player for pointing out a major problem, or offering a solution to some problem. > Some of us are more likely to get points for "Good Points" than > others, and I think that bothers me the most. BA told me that during > the Feb. floods, he would read a message, and the replies to it, and > invariably someone would reply with the statement he wanted to say. > I'd hate to have to rush to be the first with some clever observation, > only to possibly gain a point, or I might hesitate in posting my > point, to allow time for someone else to reply if I've already secured > my point. > --e I don't see the problem; it rewards a behavior we shoudl want to encourage. Good contribution to the debate. I don't see this as a major alteration of the game, nor do I see it as something that would be used very often. It would be a minor revision that encoded our preference for helpful debate. PK > On 14 Mar 01, at 17:27, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Are you screwing with me? > > > > Good point!! > > > > If you mean "Does that work?" the first one produces around > > 8/second, requiring about 25 seconds to win the game. > > > > What I didn't get from the initial proposal was that these were > > actual (1/200th of a win) points being handed out. I don't think > > you'll persuade me to vote for this one. It's just too easy. There > > has to be some basis for the award, or at least some trade off. > > --e > > > > > > > > On 14 Mar 01, at 17:03, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > ; in rebol: > > > > forever [ > > > > msg: rejoin ["Good Point " gp_count "^/Because You're > > > > special!!!^/"] send eventi@y... msg print msg gp_count: > > > > gp_count + 1 wait 5 > > > > ] > > > > > > > > # perl > > > > $gp_count = 2001; > > > > while (1) { > > > > open MAIL, "|/usr/bin/sendmail -S \"Good Point $gp_count\" > > > > eventi\@yahoo.com"; > > > > print MAIL "Because You're special!!!\n"; > > > > $gp_count++; > > > > close MAIL; > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 14 18:16:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 02:16:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 24052 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 02:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 03:18:00 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:36:08 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 20:27:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 14 Mar 01 20:27:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:27:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: what are points Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <052a00836020f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Could those of you with objections please explain exactly what you understand points to be and what the significance of "using points as currency" is. I am not seeing how this is outside the spirit of the game. Seriously, I am simply not understanding the problem. You seem to be implying that because points can be transfered they cannot be awarded. Huh???? Pk From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 14 20:42:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 04:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 44673 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 04:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 04:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 05:43:15 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2F4g6617650 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:42:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c0ad0a$2d9cc1a0$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <052a00836020f31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] what are points Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 23:41:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'll do my best, but I can't say that I'll do any better than I've already done: As I see there are two senses in which may refer to points as currency, and admittedly, I've sort of slid between the two: A) Points win you the game. In this sense, they are the object of the acquisitive part of human nature. Although this means that "usage a" is in some degree metaphoric, it also is accurate because even if this law passes, the major consideration is never just "good point, I'll give that guy a point" but also "how many does he have" and "will his lead become too great" or "will he gain on me". As I see it, your attempt to recapture some sense of honor in the award of points is thus incoherent, or it is at best rather unlikely that anybody will ever give points on the basis simply of somebody having done something good. Again, not to pick on your example, but it actually supports my case: in basketball you receive points in order to win. The ways of getting these points - three pointers or foul shots - have really nothing to do with acting nobly. As anybody who's watched the Knicks play knows, you can be a bunch of assholes and still win games. Being a nice guy - like Iverson - may help in subtle ways off the court, but it is *never* the case that Iverson walks onto the court and is granted a point by the refs, or other players, because he's a good guy. B) When players grant each other points, the current practice is that these points come from their own stock. In this sense points are *quite* like currency. As it stands, if you do something good, somebody else can reward you. It's not clear why exactly we need to have a free-loading version of this. Nobody's claiming that your law is illegal or not in the spirit of the game, it's just that it's... well, to use the comp. sci. term that E would like, inelegant. At best, this proposal would mean the arbitrary, simple granting of points to certain players; at worst, it'll collect dust and be nothing but another peg in the infamous rule-limit count. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:27 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] what are points > Could those of you with objections please explain exactly what you > understand points to be and what the significance of "using points > as currency" is. I am not seeing how this is outside the spirit of > the game. > Seriously, I am simply not understanding the problem. > > You seem to be implying that because points can be transfered > they cannot be awarded. Huh???? > > Pk > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Thu Mar 15 06:18:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 14:18:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 34409 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 14:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 14:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 14:18:01 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2FEHx661000 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:17:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401c0ad5a$9f9cf720$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1716@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Dukes and rich guys Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:17:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: > To be honest, I like pat's idea better. Good point! From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 15 07:26:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 15:26:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 86459 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 15:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 15:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mv.egroups.com) (10.1.1.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 15:26:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.113] by mv.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2001 15:26:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:26:16 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: what are points Message-ID: <98qmuo+sqfu@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <000501c0ad0a$2d9cc1a0$c7a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3297 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... How about non-binding concurrent resolutions that because he's such a swell fellow Paul gets to wear a (perhaps metaphorical) gold star on his lapel. He would be honored, but it wouldn't upset the "winning," aspect of the game. -Fritz, who's really only half-serious. --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > I'll do my best, but I can't say that I'll do any better than I've already > done: > > As I see there are two senses in which may refer to points as currency, and > admittedly, I've sort of slid between the two: > > A) Points win you the game. In this sense, they are the object of the > acquisitive part of human nature. Although this means that "usage a" is in > some degree metaphoric, it also is accurate because even if this law passes, > the major consideration is never just "good point, I'll give that guy a > point" but also "how many does he have" and "will his lead become too great" > or "will he gain on me". As I see it, your attempt to recapture some sense > of honor in the award of points is thus incoherent, or it is at best rather > unlikely that anybody will ever give points on the basis simply of somebody > having done something good. > > Again, not to pick on your example, but it actually supports my case: in > basketball you receive points in order to win. The ways of getting these > points - three pointers or foul shots - have really nothing to do with > acting nobly. As anybody who's watched the Knicks play knows, you can be a > bunch of assholes and still win games. Being a nice guy - like Iverson - > may help in subtle ways off the court, but it is *never* the case that > Iverson walks onto the court and is granted a point by the refs, or other > players, because he's a good guy. > > B) When players grant each other points, the current practice is that these > points come from their own stock. In this sense points are *quite* like > currency. As it stands, if you do something good, somebody else can reward > you. It's not clear why exactly we need to have a free-loading version of > this. > > Nobody's claiming that your law is illegal or not in the spirit of the game, > it's just that it's... well, to use the comp. sci. term that E would like, > inelegant. > > At best, this proposal would mean the arbitrary, simple granting of points > to certain players; at worst, it'll collect dust and be nothing but another > peg in the infamous rule-limit count. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:27 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] what are points > > > > Could those of you with objections please explain exactly what you > > understand points to be and what the significance of "using points > > as currency" is. I am not seeing how this is outside the spirit of > > the game. > > Seriously, I am simply not understanding the problem. > > > > You seem to be implying that because points can be transfered > > they cannot be awarded. Huh???? > > > > Pk > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 08:08:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:08:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 30253 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:08:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 17:09:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:27:16 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:19:07 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:18:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:18:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] what are points Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c0ad0a$2d9cc1a0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <052d51627160f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 14 Mar 01, at 23:41, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I'll do my best, but I can't say that I'll do any better than I've > already done: > > As I see there are two senses in which may refer to points as > currency, and admittedly, I've sort of slid between the two: > > A) Points win you the game. In this sense, they are the object of the > acquisitive part of human nature. Although this means that "usage a" > is in some degree metaphoric, it also is accurate because even if this > law passes, the major consideration is never just "good point, I'll > give that guy a point" but also "how many does he have" and "will his > lead become too great" or "will he gain on me". As I see it, your > attempt to recapture some sense of honor in the award of points is > thus incoherent, or it is at best rather unlikely that anybody will > ever give points on the basis simply of somebody having done something > good. But I only want to make it more likely than anyone doing so when they would have to lose points of their own. > > Again, not to pick on your example, but it actually supports my case: > in basketball you receive points in order to win. The ways of getting > these points - three pointers or foul shots - have really nothing to > do with acting nobly. As anybody who's watched the Knicks play knows, > you can be a bunch of assholes and still win games. Being a nice guy > - like Iverson - may help in subtle ways off the court, but it is > *never* the case that Iverson walks onto the court and is granted a > point by the refs, or other players, because he's a good guy. > Take half a metaphor why don't you. In the basketball metaphor goodness is not nobility but goodness in playing the game of basketball. What is goodness in playing this game? > B) When players grant each other points, the current practice is that > these points come from their own stock. In this sense points are > *quite* like currency. As it stands, if you do something good, > somebody else can reward you. It's not clear why exactly we need to > have a free-loading version of this. > Somebody can reward you if they are willing to give something up. It does not seem that awards ought to act in that way. I am still not sure why the currency metaphor is any better than an awards metaphor for the main way of achieving points--passing proposals. > Nobody's claiming that your law is illegal or not in the spirit of the > game, it's just that it's... well, to use the comp. sci. term that E > would like, inelegant. > > At best, this proposal would mean the arbitrary, simple granting of > points to certain players; at worst, it'll collect dust and be nothing > but another peg in the infamous rule-limit count. I certainly would have used it at times in this game. There have been clear times where someone has pointed out something that resolved a lengthy debate or resolved a problem in a pending law. I think it could be used at those times. I think you are getting hung up on the honors language, It seems to me that points currently are more like awards than they are like currency. They have not been traded for anything as yet. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:27 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] what are points > > > > Could those of you with objections please explain exactly what you > > understand points to be and what the significance of "using points > > as currency" is. I am not seeing how this is outside the spirit of > > the game. Seriously, I am simply not understanding the problem. > > > > You seem to be implying that because points can be transfered > > they cannot be awarded. Huh???? > > > > Pk > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 08:28:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:28:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 80525 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:28:29 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:47:35 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:39:27 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:39:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:38:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98qmuo+sqfu@eGroups.com> References: <000501c0ad0a$2d9cc1a0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <054ee3547160f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Groupthink jokes that miss the point. Congratulations! Good point! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha On 15 Mar 01, at 15:26, f_hemker@h... wrote: > How about non-binding concurrent resolutions that because > he's such a swell fellow Paul gets to wear a (perhaps > metaphorical) gold star on his lapel. He would be honored, but it > wouldn't upset the "winning," aspect of the game. > > -Fritz, who's really only half-serious. > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > I'll do my best, but I can't say that I'll do any better than > I've already > done: > > As I see there are two senses in which may > refer to points as currency, and > admittedly, I've sort of slid > between the two: > > A) Points win you the game. In this sense, they > are the object of the > acquisitive part of human nature. Although > this means that "usage a" is in > some degree metaphoric, it also is > accurate because even if this law passes, > the major consideration is > never just "good point, I'll give that guy a > point" but also "how > many does he have" and "will his lead become too great" > or "will he > gain on me". As I see it, your attempt to recapture some sense > of > honor in the award of points is thus incoherent, or it is at best > rather > unlikely that anybody will ever give points on the basis > simply of somebody > having done something good. > > Again, not to > pick on your example, but it actually supports my case: in > > basketball you receive points in order to win. The ways of getting > these > points - three pointers or foul shots - have really nothing to > do with > acting nobly. As anybody who's watched the Knicks play > knows, you can be a > bunch of assholes and still win games. Being a > nice guy - like Iverson - > may help in subtle ways off the court, but > it is *never* the case that > Iverson walks onto the court and is > granted a point by the refs, or other > players, because he's a good > guy. > > B) When players grant each other points, the current practice > is that these > points come from their own stock. In this sense > points are *quite* like > currency. As it stands, if you do something > good, somebody else can reward > you. It's not clear why exactly we > need to have a free-loading version of > this. > > Nobody's claiming > that your law is illegal or not in the spirit of the game, > it's just > that it's... well, to use the comp. sci. term that E would like, > > inelegant. > > At best, this proposal would mean the arbitrary, simple > granting of points > to certain players; at worst, it'll collect dust > and be nothing but another > peg in the infamous rule-limit count. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:27 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] what are points > > > > Could those of you > with objections please explain exactly what you > > understand points > to be and what the significance of "using points > > as currency" is. > I am not seeing how this is outside the spirit of > > the game. > > > Seriously, I am simply not understanding the problem. > > > > You seem > to be implying that because points can be transfered > > they cannot > be awarded. Huh???? > > > > Pk > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this > group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 08:29:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:29:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 81859 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:28:59 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:48:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:39:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:39:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:39:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points Priority: normal In-reply-to: <98qmuo+sqfu@eGroups.com> References: <000501c0ad0a$2d9cc1a0$c7a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <054df0548160f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" answer: Something that I am going to lose. From eventi@n... Thu Mar 15 08:43:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:43:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 22284 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:43:12 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA04351 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:43:10 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:45:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <054df0548160f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Good Point!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:40 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points > > > answer: Something that I am going to lose. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 08:45:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:45:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 28229 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 17:46:58 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:04:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:56:50 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 10:56:43 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:56:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <054df0548160f31ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <052f35904170f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" OK you have already convinced me that dumb jokes are more valued than good contribution to debate, what is your point? On 15 Mar 01, at 11:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Good Point!!! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:40 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: what are points > > > > > > answer: Something that I am going to lose. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 08:56:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 16:56:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 70899 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 16:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:56:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:15:53 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 11:07:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 11:07:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:07:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: the weatlh effect Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <051f95315170f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" If you all not only want to reject this proposal, but insist on points as currency, I want to know where points come from and where do they go. What happens to the points I will soon lose? If there is this much objection to the concept of points as awards that can be generated without their loss, then we absolutely need to develop a system for maintaining these finite points. Something like UHEAF is absolutley essential (I would prefer renaming it TOMC (Trough of the Motley Cow), but currency cannot simply appear and disappear. If this what we want, let us go the task, it would at least give us a project beyond the haphazard institution of unrelated and mostly dormant laws. P.S. Two questions for the wise interpreters of the law. Do I need to offer a final form proposal or can I open a poll without it, knowing it will fail? Can I withdraw the proposal without a poll and accept the loss? From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 09:38:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 17:38:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 35460 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 17:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 17:37:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 17:37:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:56:42 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 11:48:34 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 11:48:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:48:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: a new question about HP's Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <053eb4256170f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Rather than simply letting this go down in flames, I have another question. I understand the side HP's discussion to have been sarcastic, but would you in fact support the proposal re-written to allow good point points to count on a separate register. This tally could be used for future purposes if anyone wanted to give any reponsibilities to the "most honored" (but I imagine that would be a separete issue) For now I am simply thinking of re-writing with Honor points as separate, and the party with the most honor points to be designated as Your Honor. I would add to it the limit that no one player could award any other player more than one point during the course of the turn. I will rewrite this for sport because I do not feel like grading papers, but I think it is worth seriously considering and it might have some future uses. I of course will give PB one such point for the suggestion (even if it was sarcastic) Since this would not immediately affect the winning points, would there be support among those who objected in the past? To demonstrate that I am not just attempting to salvage my score by passing something useless, I will be willing to give the points I receive if this passes back to those who voted for it. I would rather simply give them away, but not to another player, because bribery is not the reason, but there is no current way to do this. PK From eventi@n... Thu Mar 15 10:28:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 18:28:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 73434 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 18:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 18:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:29:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA15677 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:28:46 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] a new question about HP's Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:31:02 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <053eb4256170f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Rather than simply letting this go down in flames, I have another > question. I understand the side HP's discussion to have been > sarcastic, but would you in fact support the proposal re-written to > allow good point points to count on a separate register. This tally > could be used for future purposes if anyone wanted to give any > reponsibilities to the "most honored" (but I imagine that would be a > separete issue) > > For now I am simply thinking of re-writing with Honor points as > separate, and the party with the most honor points to be > designated as Your Honor. I would add to it the limit that no one > player could award any other player more than one point during the > course of the turn. This seems like quite a departure from your (stated) first proposal, which may violate 306, part 2: "which may change the rule based on the discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule" I think I actually may support it in the new form, though, so I won't protest it. > I will rewrite this for sport because I do not feel like grading papers, > but I think it is worth seriously considering and it might have some > future uses. > > I of course will give PB one such point for the suggestion (even if it > was sarcastic) > > Since this would not immediately affect the winning points, would > there be support among those who objected in the past? See above, maybe... > > To demonstrate that I am not just attempting to salvage my score > by passing something useless, I will be willing to give the points I > receive if this passes back to those who voted for it. I would rather > simply give them away, but not to another player, because bribery > is not the reason, but there is no current way to do this. > > PK > I wouldn't envy you earning points for passing a proposal... Nice gesture, I guess, but not necessary. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 11:03:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 19:03:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 89806 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 19:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:03:20 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:22:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 13:14:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 15 Mar 01 13:14:13 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:14:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] a new question about HP's Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <053eb4256170f31ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0561e2522190f31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 15 Mar 01, at 13:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Rather than simply letting this go down in flames, I have another > > question. I understand the side HP's discussion to have been > > sarcastic, but would you in fact support the proposal re-written to > > allow good point points to count on a separate register. This tally > > could be used for future purposes if anyone wanted to give any > > reponsibilities to the "most honored" (but I imagine that would be a > > separete issue) > > > > For now I am simply thinking of re-writing with Honor points as > > separate, and the party with the most honor points to be designated > > as Your Honor. I would add to it the limit that no one player could > > award any other player more than one point during the course of the > > turn. > > This seems like quite a departure from your (stated) first proposal, > which may violate 306, part 2: "which may change the rule based on the > discussion, but may not include the substitution of a new rule" I > think I actually may support it in the new form, though, so I won't > protest it. To my mind it would it would only violate 306 if this proposal gave the "most honored" any power . I will send a revised proposal as soon as I am done with this set of papers. > > > I will rewrite this for sport because I do not feel like grading > > papers, but I think it is worth seriously considering and it might > > have some future uses. > > > > I of course will give PB one such point for the suggestion (even if > > it was sarcastic) > > > > Since this would not immediately affect the winning points, would > > there be support among those who objected in the past? > > See above, maybe... > > > > > To demonstrate that I am not just attempting to salvage my score by > > passing something useless, I will be willing to give the points I > > receive if this passes back to those who voted for it. I would > > rather simply give them away, but not to another player, because > > bribery is not the reason, but there is no current way to do this. > > > > PK > > > > I wouldn't envy you earning points for passing a proposal... Nice > gesture, I guess, but not necessary. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 11:31:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 19:31:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 64756 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:31:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 19:31:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:31:16 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.30] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2001 19:31:14 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:31:11 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 316 revised (2) Message-ID: <98r59v+5v1r@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1105 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Begin proposal The Good Point Rule. 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for (reason for award). A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for ordinary points. 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 5 No player may award an HP to himself. 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by future rules. End proposal From eventi@n... Thu Mar 15 11:36:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 19:36:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 53071 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 19:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 20:37:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA22922 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:36:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:38:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <98r59v+5v1r@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role in this, though. > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > Begin proposal > The Good Point Rule. > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good > Point 2xxx > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > (reason for award). > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated > for the awarding of all such points. > > 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > ordinary points. > > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player > during the course of one turn. > > 5 No player may award an HP to himself. > > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by > future rules. > End proposal > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 15 11:57:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 15 Mar 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 35911 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:57:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:57:16 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 316 revised (2) Message-ID: <98r6qs+2ac2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1947 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role in > this, though. Can't this just be considered a part of the score and thus within the scorekeeper's responsibility. Do you have any other ideas on how to keep track of these HPs? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > Begin proposal > > The Good Point Rule. > > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending > > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward > > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good > > Point 2xxx > > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > > (reason for award). > > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated > > for the awarding of all such points. > > > > 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > > ordinary points. > > > > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player > > during the course of one turn. > > > > 5 No player may award an HP to himself. > > > > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by > > future rules. > > End proposal > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 11:47:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 19:47:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 79681 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 19:47:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 19:47:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:48:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:06:48 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 13:58:53 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 13:58:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:58:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: tax time Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <055f34806201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Question about Scorekeeper rule? Tax time is approaching. Do we need to pay the scorekeeper though transfers and does he just take it? PK P.s. Waiting for response on scorekeeper and HPs. From barturo@e... Fri Mar 16 12:12:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:12:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 75122 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:12:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:12:31 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11756 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:12:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:05:57 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037368@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:05:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE54.832638E0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE54.832638E0 Content-Type: text/plain I think it should be the responsibility of the SK to keep track of the HP's. The question I have is during a "turn" who has the ability to hand out HP's? Lets just say it's PB's turn and EV doesn't like what has been proposed and he makes a point that goes against it and I think it was a good point and that it sways me from voting for the proposal to voting against it. Can I give EV a HP? -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:38 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role in this, though. > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > Begin proposal > The Good Point Rule. > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good > Point 2xxx > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > (reason for award). > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated > for the awarding of all such points. > > 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > ordinary points. > > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player > during the course of one turn. > > 5 No player may award an HP to himself. > > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by > future rules. > End proposal > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE54.832638E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I th= ink it should be the responsibility of the SK to keep track of the HP’s.

     

    The question I have is during a “turn” who has the ability to hand = out HP’s? Lets just say it’s PB’s turn and EV doesn’t like what has been= proposed and he makes a point that goes against it and I think it was a good point and that it sw= ays me from voting for the proposal to voting against it. Can I give EV a HP?=

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, March 15, 20= 01 2:38 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)

     <= /o:p>

    Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper'= s role in
    this, though.

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...]<= br> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)
    >
    >
    > Begin proposal
    > The Good Point Rule.
    > 1     Any player may award any other player on= e point for a "good
    > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pend= ing
    > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points towa= rd
    > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP).
    >
    > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2= 001
    > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Goo= d
    > Point 2xxx
    >         I, (name of player= ) award (name of recipient) an HP for
    > (reason for award).
    >  A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated
    > for the awarding of all such points.
    >
    > 3  The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes= and
    > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for<= /tt>
    > ordinary points.
    >
    > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual pla= yer
    > during the course of one turn.
    >
    > 5 No player may award an HP to himself.
    >
    > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your
    > Honor."  This honorary title may be granted powers or du= ties by
    > future rules.
    >  End proposal
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= /
    >
    >



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE54.832638E0-- From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 16 12:18:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:18:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 53964 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:18:27 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2GKIMB83537 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:18:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0ae56$21ebdce0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037368@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:17:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0AE2C.37D6EC40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0AE2C.37D6EC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Definitely not. It is never good nor honorable to vote against any of my p= roposals. Bad point! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) I think it should be the responsibility of the SK to keep track of the HP= 's.=20 =20=20=20 The question I have is during a "turn" who has the ability to hand out HP= 's? Lets just say it's PB's turn and EV doesn't like what has been proposed= and he makes a point that goes against it and I think it was a good point = and that it sways me from voting for the proposal to voting against it. Can= I give EV a HP? =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:38 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) =20=20=20 Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role in this, though. > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > Begin proposal > The Good Point Rule. > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good > Point 2xxx > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > (reason for award). > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated > for the awarding of all such points. > > 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > ordinary points. > > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player > during the course of one turn. > > 5 No player may award an HP to himself. > > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by > future rules. > End proposal > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/term= s/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0AE2C.37D6EC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Definitely not.  It is never good nor= =20 honorable to vote against any of my proposals.
     
    Bad point!
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:05= =20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Propo= sal 316=20 revised (2)

    I=20 think it should be the responsibility of the SK to keep track of the HP&#= 8217;s.=20

     =

    The=20 question I have is during a “turn” who has the ability to han= d out HP’s? Lets=20 just say it’s PB’s turn and EV doesn’t like what has be= en proposed and he=20 makes a point that goes against it and I think it was a good point and th= at it=20 sways me from voting for the proposal to voting against it. Can I give EV= a=20 HP?

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:3= 8=20 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Propo= sal 316=20 revised (2)

     =

    Sound= s like=20 fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role=20 in
    this,=20 though.

    > -----Original Message-----
    > = From:=20 pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > S= ent:=20 Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM
    > To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [scatterbrains]=20 Proposal 316 revised (2)
    >
    >
    &g= t;=20 Begin proposal
    > The Good Point Rule.
    >=20 1     Any player may award any other player one point= for=20 a "good
    > point," a contribution to the discussion, or adv= ice=20 on a pending
    > proposal. These points will be tallied=20 separately from points toward
    > winning the game and known= as=20 Honorary Points (HP).
    >
    > 2 Good point awar= ds=20 will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001
    > HPs wi= ll be=20 granted by public declaration with subject heading Good
    > = Point=20 2xxx
    >         I, = (name=20 of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for
    > (reason f= or=20 award).
    >  A reason related to the activity of Nomic = must=20 be publicly stated
    > for the awarding of all such=20 points.
    >
    > 3  The Scorekeeper shall b= e=20 responsible for reporting changes and
    > keeping a tally of= =20 these points consistent with the procedure for
    > ordinary= =20 points.
    >
    > 4 No player may award more than= one=20 HP to any other individual player
    > during the course of o= ne=20 turn.
    >
    > 5 No player may award an HP to=20 himself.
    >
    > 6 The player currently holding= the=20 most HPs will be designated "Your
    > Honor."  This hon= orary=20 title may be granted powers or duties by
    > future=20 rules.
    >  End=20 proposal
    >
    >
    >
    &= gt;
    >=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    >=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >
    >

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0AE2C.37D6EC40-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:20:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:20:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 85946 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:21:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:39:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:31:11 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:31:00 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:30:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037368@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <058160439201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 16 Mar 01, at 15:05, Arturo, Bob wrote: > I think it should be the responsibility of the SK to keep track of the > HP's. > > > The question I have is during a "turn" who has the ability to hand out > HP's? Lets just say it's PB's turn and EV doesn't like what has been > proposed and he makes a point that goes against it and I think it was > a good point and that it sways me from voting for the proposal to > voting against it. Can I give EV a HP? Yes. I would include this within "contribution to the debate" or even "improvement of the rules" the rules taken as the entire ruleset (I will rephrase to make this more clear in the rule > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:38 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > Sounds like fun... I'm not sure you can amend the Scorekeeper's role > in this, though. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:31 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > Begin proposal > > The Good Point Rule. > > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > > point," a contribution to the discussion, or advice on a pending > > proposal. These points will be tallied separately from points toward > > winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with > > 2001 HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading > > Good Point 2xxx > > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > > (reason for award). > > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated > > for the awarding of all such points. > > > > 3 The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > > ordinary points. > > > > 4 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual > > player during the course of one turn. > > > > 5 No player may award an HP to himself. > > > > 6 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by > > future rules. > > End proposal > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 8:N/A= 603222/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603222/rand=962111360> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:23:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:23:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 1764 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:23:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:23:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:23:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:42:32 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:34:38 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:34:29 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:34:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901c0ae56$21ebdce0$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <056a43242201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other player for a dishonorable action as well? From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 16 12:24:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:24:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 74504 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:24:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:24:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2GKOlB84563 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:24:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0ae57$09147fa0$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <056a43242201031ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:23:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. > What if I wrote in dishonor as well and anyone could take these > away from any other player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 16 12:29:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:29:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 80082 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:29:12 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13733 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:29:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] tax time Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <055f34806201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Question about Scorekeeper rule? > > Tax time is approaching. Do we need to pay the scorekeeper > though transfers and does he just take it? I say he just takes it, Transfers are for things outside the rules. > > PK > > P.s. Waiting for response on scorekeeper and HPs. Don't know yet... Still undecided; I'd lean towards no, since I don't think the role should be modified except through the Rule creating it. --e > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:33:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:33:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 88842 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:33:03 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:51:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:44:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:43:49 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:43:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] tax time Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <055f34806201031ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <056765751201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" That seems right under 101. There is no room for civil disobedience, that would lead to the need for punishment and then taking it anyway. On 16 Mar 01, at 15:31, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Question about Scorekeeper rule? > > > > Tax time is approaching. Do we need to pay the scorekeeper > > though transfers and does he just take it? > > I say he just takes it, Transfers are for things outside the rules. > > > > > > PK > > > > P.s. Waiting for response on scorekeeper and HPs. > > Don't know yet... Still undecided; I'd lean towards no, since I don't > think the role should be modified except through the Rule creating it. > > --e > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:38:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:38:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 30340 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:38:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:57:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:49:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:49:28 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:49:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001701c0ae57$09147fa0$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <058f02357201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here might add too much to the rule. Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. pk On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 16 12:41:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:41:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 45411 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:41:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:42:56 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15146 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:35:25 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037369@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:35:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE58.A080E210" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE58.A080E210 Content-Type: text/plain I agree with PF. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here might add too much to the rule. Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. pk On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor E*TRADE. It's your money. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE58.A080E210 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    I ag= ree with PF.

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001= 3:49 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)

     <= /o:p>

    By how much? It certainly does not double the work.  Do y= ou want <= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-font-family= :"Courier New"; color:black'>
    all those fractions to deal with?
    I think that writing that in here might add too much to the rule.<= br>
    Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. 

    pk

    On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:

    > Exactly what I was thinking.  But the SK job will grow.  Shouldn't
    > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise?
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)
    >
    >
    > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis.  So
    > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrot= e in
    > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any ot= her
    > > player for a dishonorable action as well?
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yah= oo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at<= /tt>
    > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
    > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friend= s!
    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------= ---_
    > ->
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.co= m/info/terms/
    >
    >




    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE58.A080E210-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:44:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:44:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 15007 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:45:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:03:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:55:26 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:55:04 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:55:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: turns Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <056f92003211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Before I revise again Is there a time in Nomic that officially is not during the course of a player's turn (like the post-vote debate about Fritz's law). Did it become my turn when the poll closed or when I sent the first draft of the proposal? This is relevant to the limit of one HP per turn. They might come in hand during these in between periods. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:47:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:47:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 23029 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:48:59 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:06:47 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:58:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 14:58:32 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:58:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037369@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <059dd4706211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote: > I agree with PF. Who is PF? Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely. PK > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here might > add too much to the rule. > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > pk > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 8:N/A= > 603697/*https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > age?SO URCE=XQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603697/rand=952451610> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 16 12:50:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:50:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 57744 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:50:04 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16000 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:50:01 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] The Office-Creating Proposal (was: Proposal 316 revised (2)) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:52:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <058f02357201031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" 307 outlines the creation, and definition of offices, of which the SK is the only current example. I don't really have too much time for this, but there's a subtle difference between "The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for ordinary points." and "HP's are part of a players score" There shouldn't be dependance on the existance of a scorekeeper in this rule, and if his responsibilities are to be amended it should be by amending 312. In a nutshell, expand the definition of score, not the role of the scorekeeper. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want > all those fractions to deal with? > I think that writing that in here might add too much to the rule. > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > pk > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 16 12:51:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:51:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 38469 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:51:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:52:59 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA16234 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:51:54 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] turns Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:54:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <056f92003211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" We decided early on that when one turn is "over" the next begins. To twilight zone. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:55 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] turns > > > Before I revise again > > Is there a time in Nomic that officially is not during the course of a > player's turn (like the post-vote debate about Fritz's law). Did it > become my turn when the poll closed or when I sent the first draft > of the proposal? > > This is relevant to the limit of one HP per turn. They might come > in hand during these in between periods. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 16 12:53:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:53:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 65053 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:54:18 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA16378 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:53:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:46:46 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736A@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:46:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5A.36AE5BE0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5A.36AE5BE0 Content-Type: text/plain Sorry -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote: > I agree with PF. Who is PF? Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely. PK > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here might > add too much to the rule. > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > pk > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=170005708 > 8:N/A= > 603697/* https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > age?SO URCE=XQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > S=1700 057088:N/A=603697/rand=952451610> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5A.36AE5BE0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Sorr= y

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001= 3:58 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)

     <= /o:p>



    On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote:

    > I agree with PF.
    Who is PF?
    Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely.
    PK

    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)
    >
    > By how much? It certainly does not double the work.  Do you w= ant all
    > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here mi= ght
    > add too much to the rule.
    >
    > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. =
    >
    > pk
    >
    > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    >
    > > Exactly what I was thinking.  But the SK job will grow.  Shouldn't
    > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise?
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...>
    > > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM
    > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > >
    > >
    > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis.  So
    > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in
    > > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from a= ny other
    > > > player for a dishonorable action as well?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > http://doc= s.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > <http:/= /docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
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    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you mad= e at
    > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 milli= on
    > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends!
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    > >
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    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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    > 603697/*htt= ps://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP
    > age?SO URCE=3DXQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money.
    >
    >
    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D172061.1362108.2950584/D=3Degrou= pmail/
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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5A.36AE5BE0-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 12:58:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 20:58:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 76797 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 20:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 20:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 20:58:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.116] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2001 20:58:20 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:58:17 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: The Office-Creating Proposal (was: Proposal 316 revised (2)) Message-ID: <98tup9+6tnc@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3238 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Good point, I get it. I thought about this becaue writing the scorekeeper's role in seemed unnecessary if my theory is correct,so I will simply write that in as per your suggestion. See this is the kind of thing I mean. --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > 307 outlines the creation, and definition of offices, of which the SK is the > only current example. I don't really have too much time for this, but > there's a subtle difference between > > "The Scorekeeper shall be responsible for reporting changes and > keeping a tally of these points consistent with the procedure for > ordinary points." > > and > > "HP's are part of a players score" > > There shouldn't be dependance on the existance of a scorekeeper in this > rule, and if his responsibilities are to be amended it should be by amending > 312. > > In a nutshell, expand the definition of score, not the role of the > scorekeeper. > > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want > > all those fractions to deal with? > > I think that writing that in here might add too much to the rule. > > > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > > > pk > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote in > > > > dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any other > > > > player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 13:04:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:04:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 59883 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:04:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:23:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:15:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:14:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:14:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] turns Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <056f92003211031ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <056c40923211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" thank you I just wanted to make sure On 16 Mar 01, at 15:54, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > We decided early on that when one turn is "over" the next begins. To > twilight zone. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:55 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] turns > > > > > > Before I revise again > > > > Is there a time in Nomic that officially is not during the course of > > a player's turn (like the post-vote debate about Fritz's law). Did > > it become my turn when the poll closed or when I sent the first > > draft of the proposal? > > > > This is relevant to the limit of one HP per turn. They might come > > in hand during these in between periods. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 13:06:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:06:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 4659 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:06:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:06:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:25:08 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:17:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:17:05 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:16:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736A@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <056970825211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 16 Mar 01, at 15:46, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Sorry > ok, but which seriously, the disagreement was between pb (same finger as f) and pk? I guess if I take EV's suggestion it won't matter. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > I agree with PF. > Who is PF? > Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely. > PK > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all > > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here > > might add too much to the rule. > > > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > > > pk > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote > > > > in dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any > > > > other player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -- -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > < > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=17000570 > > 8 > > > 8:N/A= > 603697/* > https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > > > age?SO URCE=XQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603697/rand=952451610> > > To unsubscribe from > this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the > specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby > notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is > strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please > notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 8:N/A= 603220/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603220/rand=164737069> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 16 13:12:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:12:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 19202 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:13:09 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18437 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:11:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:05:35 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736C@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:05:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5C.D7247990" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5C.D7247990 Content-Type: text/plain I was trying to agree with PK and not PB -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:17 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) On 16 Mar 01, at 15:46, Arturo, Bob wrote: > Sorry > ok, but which seriously, the disagreement was between pb (same finger as f) and pk? I guess if I take EV's suggestion it won't matter. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > I agree with PF. > Who is PF? > Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely. > PK > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want all > > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in here > > might add too much to the rule. > > > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > > > pk > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. Shouldn't > > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. So > > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I wrote > > > > in dishonor as well and anyone could take these away from any > > > > other player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -- -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > < > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=17000570 > > 8 > < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=170005708 > > > 8:N/A= > 603697/* > https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > < https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > > > age?SO URCE=XQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603697/rand=952451610> > > To unsubscribe from > this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! 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    I wa= s trying to agree with PK and not PB

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001= 4:17 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)

     <= /o:p>

    On 16 Mar 01, at 15:46, Arturo, Bob wrote:<= font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New">

    > Sorry
    >
    ok, but which seriously, the disagreement was between pb (same finger as f) and pk?
    I guess if I take EV's suggestion it won't matter.
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)
    >
    >
    >
    > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote:
    >
    > > I agree with PF.
    > Who is PF?
    > Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely.=
    > PK
    >
    > >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > >
    > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work.  Do = you want all
    > > those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in he= re
    > > might add too much to the rule.
    > >
    > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. 
    > >
    > > pk
    > >
    > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote:
    > >
    > > > Exactly what I was thinking.  But the SK job will grow.  Shouldn't
    > > > such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland <pkirklan@e...><= br> > > > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM
    > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2)
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to o= ne basis.  So
    > > > > what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What= if I wrote
    > > > > in dishonor as well and anyone could take these awa= y from any
    > > > > other player for a dishonorable action as well?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > > http:= //docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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    > > > > http:= //docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > <http://docs.yaho= o.com/info/terms/> >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise yo= u made at
    > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
    > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find y= our
    > > > friends! http://us= .click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM>
    > > < http://us= .click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM> >
    > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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    > > >
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    > > > http://doc= s.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > <http:/= /docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
    > > 
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > >
    > >
    > > <
    > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D172061.1362108.2950584/D=3Degroupmail/S=3D= 17000570
    > > 8
    > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D172061.1362108.2950584/D=3Degroupmail/S= =3D170005708
    > > > 8:N/A=3D > 603697/*
    > htt= ps://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP
    > <htt= ps://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP> >
    > age?SO URCE=3DXQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > &= gt; <
    > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D172061.1362108.2950584/D=3Degrou= pmail/
    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D172061.1362108.2950584/D=3Degrou= pmail/
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    > this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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    > http://docs.yahoo.co= m/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/inf= o/terms/>
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    > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff!
    >
    >
    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D183681.1344045.2940285/D=3Degrou= pmail/
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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0AE5C.D7247990-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 13:27:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 43790 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:27:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:27:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:27:05 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:38:07 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 15:37:58 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:37:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736C@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <059055945211031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Good because he is not getting a raise Who brings up govenment salaries at tax time? I didn't mean to be a pain in the ass, but I really sat here trying to figure out which typo was more likely. New version coming before BEER time. On 16 Mar 01, at 16:05, Arturo, Bob wrote: > I was trying to agree with PK and not PB > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:46, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > Sorry > > > ok, but which seriously, the disagreement was between pb (same > finger as f) and pk? > I guess if I take EV's suggestion it won't matter. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:58 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:35, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > I agree with PF. > > Who is PF? > > Typo king here, cannot figure out which error is more likely. > > PK > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:49 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > By how much? It certainly does not double the work. Do you want > > > all those fractions to deal with? I think that writing that in > > > here might add too much to the rule. > > > > > > Perhps it should be taken up in the context of the tax code. > > > > > > pk > > > > > > On 16 Mar 01, at 15:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > Exactly what I was thinking. But the SK job will grow. > > > > Shouldn't such a fine, hard-working fellow get a pay-raise? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:34 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 revised (2) > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, honors will take place on a one to one basis. > > > > > So what BA honors EV for PB may not honor EV for. What if I > > > > > wrote in dishonor as well and anyone could take these away > > > > > from any other player for a dishonorable action as well? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > < > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- -- -_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > < > > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=170005 > > > 70 > > > > 8 > < > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/S=170005708 > > > > > 8:N/A= > 603697/* > > https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > > < > https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/applogic%2bLPMasterP > > > > > age?SO URCE=XQSFSY0005> E*TRADE. It's your money. > > > < > > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=172061.1362108.2950584/D=egroupmail/ > > > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603697/rand=952451610> > > To unsubscribe > from > this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! > Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Terms of Service. > > > * > NOTICE * - If the reader is not the > specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby > notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is > strictly prohibited. If you are > not > the specified recipient, please > notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups > Sponsor > > > < > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=183681.1344045.2940285/D=egroupmail/S=170005708 > > > 8:N/A= 603220/* > http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870 > > > Click > Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=183681.1344045.2940285/D=egroupmail/ > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603220/rand=164737069> > > To unsubscribe from > this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the > specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby > notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is > strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please > notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 8:N/A= 603222/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > S=1700 057088:N/A=603222/rand=140872064> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 13:34:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 21:34:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 59777 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:34:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 21:34:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (64.211.240.235) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:35:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.1.35] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2001 21:33:43 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:32:44 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 316 rev version 3.1 Message-ID: <98u0ps+iaii@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1763 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Sorry for the many parts, but I hope that it least helps clarity and ease of reference to clauses. Begin proposal The Good Point Rule. 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," a contributing to the discussion, advice on a pending proposal, or other benefit to the making of good rules. These points will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for (reason for award). A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. 3 Any player may remove an HP from any other player for an action deemed to be dishonorable according to the same procedure 4 Removals shall bear subject heading "Dishonorable Action 2xxx" "I, (name of player) remove (name of dishonored player) an HP for (reason for removal)." A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the removal of all such points. The reason must specify a dishonorable action rather than simply negate an award given to that player. 5 HP's shall be a part of the player's score and handled as such. 6 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 7 No player may remove more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 8 No player may award an HP to himself. 9 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by future rules. End proposal From barturo@e... Fri Mar 16 14:08:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 22:08:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 12698 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 22:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:08:56 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA24356 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:08:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:02:30 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736E@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Beer Time Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:02:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me - so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. --Homer Simpson Have a nice weekend. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 14:26:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 22:26:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 46150 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 22:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:27:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:44:54 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 16:37:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 16:36:36 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:36:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: proposal 316 review Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <058915444221031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" The current form of 316 is the unofficial final form. I submit it for review of legality to avoid our last turn problem, but I do not anticpate any further changes in substance. Since I think it is now the weekend officially, I will save opening a poll until Monday. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 14:28:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 16 Mar 2001 22:28:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 50004 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2001 22:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:29:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:46:53 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 16:39:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 16:38:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:38:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Beer Time Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03736E@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <059715346221031ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Drink well and Happy St. Patrick's Day! On 16 Mar 01, at 17:02, Arturo, Bob wrote: > All right, brain, I don't like you and you don't like me > - so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with > beer. > --Homer Simpson > > > Have a nice weekend. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Fri Mar 16 16:18:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 00:18:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 7016 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 00:18:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 00:18:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 01:20:02 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2H1EtB06807 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:14:55 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA26006; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:18:57 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 rev version 3.1 In-Reply-To: 139c X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1725@w...> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:18:57 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... On to the nit-picking: P1 should be less restrictive. P2 covers the substance of the declaration anyway, and is easier to argue in case of a judgement. The language in 6&7 can be combined pretty easily. And a question: Can HP's be awarded or removed for activities other than discussion? Can I take one away from someone for delaying the game, or add one for a particularly good Judgement? How about an HP for not calling me to judgement when I tamper with the ruleset? If not, can HP's be the reward called for by other rules? --e -----Original Message----- From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 rev version 3.1 Sorry for the many parts, but I hope that it least helps clarity and ease of reference to clauses. Begin proposal The Good Point Rule. 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," a contributing to the discussion, advice on a pending proposal, or other benefit to the making of good rules. These points will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for (reason for award). A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. 3 Any player may remove an HP from any other player for an action deemed to be dishonorable according to the same procedure 4 Removals shall bear subject heading "Dishonorable Action 2xxx" "I, (name of player) remove (name of dishonored player) an HP for (reason for removal)." A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the removal of all such points. The reason must specify a dishonorable action rather than simply negate an award given to that player. 5 HP's shall be a part of the player's score and handled as such. 6 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 7 No player may remove more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 8 No player may award an HP to himself. 9 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by future rules. End proposal To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 16:35:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 00:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 53087 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 00:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 00:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 01:36:46 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:54:35 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 18:46:44 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 18:46:25 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:46:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 rev version 3.1 Priority: normal References: 139c In-reply-to: <15308871.1725@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0597b3554001131ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 16 Mar 01, at 16:18, eventi@w... wrote: > On to the nit-picking: > P1 should be less restrictive. P2 covers the substance of the > declaration anyway, and is easier to argue in case of a judgement. > I take you mean that the language of the list of reason is unnecessary if what I mean is must state a reason related to Nomic (as specified in 2) That seems right because I do not mean those as specfic restrictions. I mean them in the most general sense. > The language in 6&7 can be combined pretty easily. > OK but I like the number 9 > And a question: Can HP's be awarded or removed for activities other > than discussion? Can I take one away from someone for delaying the > game, or add one for a particularly good Judgement? How about an HP > for not calling me to judgement when I tamper with the ruleset? If > not, can HP's be the reward called for by other rules? > Yes, HPs can be awarded for anything the awarder deems to be an action contributing to the good of Nomic. This reason must be stated. I want to make sure that if there are calls to judgment the "goodness" of the point is not at issue. If I gave Fritz an HP for having a German name that could be taken away. If I gave Bob a point for correcting the initials and clarifying his respnse it woudl stand. (even though you might now take an HP from me for doing something stupid) How liberally we use these points will be governed primarily by convention. I orignially envisioned them (when they affected the score) to be used quite sparingly. But so long as they do not effect the other score in a direct way, if I start handing them out any time anybody says anything I agree with, so will everyone else, and I assume also using the negative points. I want to leave the use of these mostly to our indivdual judgment. They will be balanced by our equal power to both award and remove them. Thanks for the advice, For Zeus's Sake I will give you one when I can. > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:33 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 316 rev version 3.1 > > > Sorry for the many parts, but I hope that it least helps clarity and > ease of reference to clauses. > > Begin proposal > The Good Point Rule. > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > point," a contributing to the discussion, advice on a pending > proposal, or other benefit to the making of good rules. These points > will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and > known as Honorary Points (HP). > > 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 > HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good > Point 2xxx > I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for > (reason for award). > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for > the awarding of all such points. > > 3 Any player may remove an HP from any other player for an action > deemed to be dishonorable according to the same procedure > > 4 Removals shall bear subject heading "Dishonorable Action 2xxx" > "I, (name of player) remove (name of dishonored player) an HP for > (reason for removal)." > A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for > the removal of all such points. The reason must specify a > dishonorable action rather than simply negate an award given to that > player. > > 5 HP's shall be a part of the player's score and handled as such. > > 6 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player > during the course of one turn. > > 7 No player may remove more than one HP to any other individual > player during the course of one turn. > > 8 No player may award an HP to himself. > > 9 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your > Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by future > rules. > End proposal > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 16 16:47:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 00:47:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 67540 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 01:48:40 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:06:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 18:58:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 16 Mar 01 18:58:17 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:58:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: revised clause 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0574d2806011131ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" How is this for the general statment? 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," for anything the individual deems beneficial to the state of Nomic and the goodness of its laws, These points will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). (I want to keep 6 and 7 separate to make it absolutley clear that one can do one of each ) I hope this is good, becaue if the proposal goes into more drafts than my dissertation I am going to have a hard time giving my attention to it. I will make more changes if necessary. Is the scorekeeper issue satisfactory? From bernardo@c... Sat Mar 17 11:50:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 17 Mar 2001 19:50:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 67021 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 19:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2001 19:50:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 20:51:29 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-15.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.200]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2HJoNB95573 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:50:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c0af1b$640c9d60$c8a811d0@computer> To: References: <0574d2806011131ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] revised clause 1 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:49:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'm still not sure why it makes sense to attempt to quantify honor. I think that Friedrich would *hate* this idea... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:58 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] revised clause 1 > How is this for the general statment? > > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," > for anything the individual deems beneficial to the state of Nomic and > the goodness of its laws, These points will be tallied separately from > points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). > > (I want to keep 6 and 7 separate to make it absolutley clear that one can > do one of each ) > > I hope this is good, becaue if the proposal goes into more drafts than my > dissertation I am going to have a hard time giving my attention to it. > I will make more changes if necessary. > Is the scorekeeper issue satisfactory? > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 19 08:14:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 16:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 75566 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:14:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 16:14:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:14:28 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29309 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:14:27 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Off Topic: ANWR Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:16:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" USGS Cartographer fired for posting maps of Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to his personal website. http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/3/17/202127/270 From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 11:30:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 19:30:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 87803 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 19:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 19:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:31:14 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:49:30 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 13:41:15 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 13:40:53 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:40:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] revised clause 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001b01c0af1b$640c9d60$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05cdc3049191331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Fortunately fred does not have a vote On 17 Mar 01, at 14:49, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I'm still not sure why it makes sense to attempt to quantify honor. I > think that Friedrich would *hate* this idea... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:58 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] revised clause 1 > > > > How is this for the general statment? > > > > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > > point," for anything the individual deems beneficial to the state of > > Nomic and the goodness of its laws, These points will be tallied > > separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary > > Points (HP). > > > > (I want to keep 6 and 7 separate to make it absolutley clear that > > one can do one of each ) > > > > I hope this is good, becaue if the proposal goes into more drafts > > than my dissertation I am going to have a hard time giving my > > attention to it. I will make more changes if necessary. Is the > > scorekeeper issue satisfactory? > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 12:13:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 20:13:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22463 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 20:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:13:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:32:39 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 14:24:24 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 14:24:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:23:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: language Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001b01c0af1b$640c9d60$c8a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05aa13932201331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" PB: I'm still not sure why it makes sense to attempt to quantify honor. 7F00,0000,0000. This is nothing more than a system to allow us to award each other for benefit to the community. How it plays out will be interesting. PK I guess It is time to put this to a vote. 7F00,0000,0000> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland < > To: < > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:58 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] revised clause 1 > > > > How is this for the general statment? > > > > 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good > > point," for anything the individual deems beneficial to the state of > > Nomic and the goodness of its laws, These points will be tallied > > separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary > > Points (HP). > > > > (I want to keep 6 and 7 separate to make it absolutley clear that > > one can do one of each ) > > > > I hope this is good, becaue if the proposal goes into more drafts > > than my dissertation I am going to have a hard time giving my > > attention to it. I will make more changes if necessary. Is the > > scorekeeper issue satisfactory? > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Mar 19 12:22:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32171 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:22:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 20:22:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:22:15 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.64] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2001 20:22:14 -0000 Date: 19 Mar 2001 20:22:12 -0000 Message-ID: <985033332.276.99322.j5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good Point Rule?(see list for details) o yes o no To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 12:23:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 20:23:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 34082 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:23:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 20:23:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:23:00 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.64] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2001 20:22:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:22:56 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal 316 Final Form Message-ID: <995pr0+b75l@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1661 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Begin proposal The Good Point Rule. 1 Any player may award any other player one point for a "good point," for anything the individual deems beneficial to the state of Nomic and the goodness of its laws, These points will be tallied separately from points toward winning the game and known as Honorary Points (HP). 2 Good point awards will be numbered sequentially beginning with 2001 HPs will be granted by public declaration with subject heading Good Point 2xxx I, (name of player) award (name of recipient) an HP for (reason for award). A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the awarding of all such points. 3 Any player may remove an HP from any other player for an action deemed to be harmful or dishonorable according to the same procedure 4 Removals shall bear subject heading "Dishonorable Action 2xxx" "I, (name of player) remove (name of dishonored player) an HP for (reason for removal)." A reason related to the activity of Nomic must be publicly stated for the removal of all such points. The reason must specify a dishonorable action rather than simply negate an award given to that player. 5 HP's shall be a part of the player's score and handled as such. 6 No player may award more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 7 No player may remove more than one HP to any other individual player during the course of one turn. 8 No player may award an HP to himself. 9 The player currently holding the most HPs will be designated "Your Honor." This honorary title may be granted powers or duties by future rules. End proposal From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Mar 19 14:30:18 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57222 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 22:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:30:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.11] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2001 22:30:15 -0000 Date: 19 Mar 2001 22:30:12 -0000 Message-ID: <985041012.693.79192.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good Point Rule?(see list for details) CHOICES AND RESULTS - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% - no, 3 votes, 60.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 14:39:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 22:39:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 93222 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 22:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:39:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:59:17 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 16:51:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 16:50:55 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:50:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <985041012.693.79192.n4@yahoogroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05cc91759221331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? pk On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 14:54:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 22:54:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17240 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 22:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:55:22 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JMsGB48510 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:54:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c0b0c7$68ba6380$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <05cc91759221331ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:53:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being given out this round... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show > how each member voted? > I can't see it anywhere > Who voted for it? > > pk > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > final results: > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 14:58:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 22:58:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 28856 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 22:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:59:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:17:37 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:09:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:09:10 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:09:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000d01c0b0c7$68ba6380$cea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05a893717231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I realize that, but I would like to know. Seriously, how do you get the voter results On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being given > out this round... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show how > > each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > pk > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 19 15:03:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:03:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 41877 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:03:19 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA14942 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:03:17 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:05:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <05a893717231331ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" You have to set it up that way from the start... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being given > > out this round... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show how > > > each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > pk > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:04:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:04:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 59783 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:04:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JN4CB49319 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:04:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c0b0c8$cbe67600$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <05a893717231331ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:03:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's possible. My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do anything, since you're the author. But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > I realize that, but I would like to know. > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being given > > out this round... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show how > > > each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > pk > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:05:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 65893 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 00:06:43 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:25:02 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:16:49 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:16:38 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:16:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05a893717231331ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05cfa0225231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But, I thought I did. So there is no way to retrieve them now. Sorry. But, can whoever voted just say so, because this was meant to be public, and would have had to have been enforced if it passed. On 19 Mar 01, at 18:05, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > You have to set it up that way from the start... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > given out this round... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show > > > > how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > > > > > your friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 19 15:06:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:06:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 68837 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 00:07:57 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA15211 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:06:52 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:09:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001d01c0b0c8$cbe67600$cea811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted how, so it's a done deal... No harm, no foul. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when > you created > the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's possible. > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do anything, > since you're the author. > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being given > > > out this round... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show how > > > > each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:07:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:07:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 67158 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:07:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:26:31 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:18:18 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:18:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:18:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001d01c0b0c8$cbe67600$cea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05d173126231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" one more time, that would all be solved if all would report their vote. On 19 Mar 01, at 18:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's > possible. > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > anything, since you're the author. > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > given out this round... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show > > > > how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > > > > > your friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:14:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:14:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 65253 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:14:04 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:25:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:24:56 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:24:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d01c0b0c8$cbe67600$cea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05b062733231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Admittedly this is my mistake, but in all seriousness, I do not think we can permit hidden voting. If everyone would simply report what they voted that would solve it. Otherwise I think another (non- binding? poll is necessary. The rules of the game imply (and not subtly) that all votes must become public. If the person who voted for it wants to be let me know outside I will shut up, but I really think we all ought to insist that it become public somehow. On 19 Mar 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted how, so it's > a done deal... No harm, no foul. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you > > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's > > possible. > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > > given out this round... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this > > > > > show how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted > > > > > for it? > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > > > > > the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > > > > > at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll > > > > > > find your friends! > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ------ ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -----_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:19:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:19:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 82013 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:19:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.126] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:19:25 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <99645t+fon9@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 124 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... The only options are show voter identity with each vote or do not show voter idenitity What has been the normal procdure? From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:20:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:20:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 92674 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:20:14 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNKBB51037 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:20:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002b01c0b0cb$07930860$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <05d173126231331ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:19:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Pour quoi? Por que? Per quale? Quare? Weswegen? Waarom? (Dutch included for E, even though I had to look it up). Oh yeah, Why? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > one more time, that would all be solved if all would report their vote. > > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you > > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's > > possible. > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > > given out this round... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this show > > > > > how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted for it? > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > > > > > > your friends! > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:22:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:22:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 84498 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:22:03 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNM1B51135 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:22:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003b01c0b0cb$48c9ac80$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <001d01c0b0c8$cbe67600$cea811d0@computer> <05b062733231331ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:21:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Ok. I didn't vote for it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:24 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > Admittedly this is my mistake, but in all seriousness, I do not think > we can permit hidden voting. If everyone would simply report what > they voted that would solve it. Otherwise I think another (non- > binding? poll is necessary. > The rules of the game imply (and not subtly) that all votes must > become public. > > If the person who voted for it wants to be let me know outside I will > shut up, but I really think we all ought to insist that it become > public somehow. > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted how, so it's > > a done deal... No harm, no foul. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you > > > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's > > > possible. > > > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > > > given out this round... > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this > > > > > > show how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted > > > > > > for it? > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > > > > > > the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > > > > > > at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll > > > > > > > find your friends! > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > ------ ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > > friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -----_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:25:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:25:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4958 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:25:27 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:44:50 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:36:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:36:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:36:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003b01c0b0cb$48c9ac80$cea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05add5044231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" no shit I am just losing everything. Now I can't find the papers I am supposed to grade either. On 19 Mar 01, at 18:21, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Ok. I didn't vote for it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:24 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > Admittedly this is my mistake, but in all seriousness, I do not > > think we can permit hidden voting. If everyone would simply report > > what they voted that would solve it. Otherwise I think another > > (non- binding? poll is necessary. The rules of the game imply (and > > not subtly) that all votes must become public. > > > > If the person who voted for it wants to be let me know outside I > > will shut up, but I really think we all ought to insist that it > > become public somehow. On 19 Mar 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia > > wrote: > > > > > I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted how, so > > > it's a done deal... No harm, no foul. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when > > > > you created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed > > > > if it's possible. > > > > > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > > > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points > > > > > > being given out this round... > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't > > > > > > > this show how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere > > > > > > > Who voted for it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here > > > > > > > > are the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you > > > > > > > > made at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has > > > > > > > > over 14 million registered high school alumni--chances > > > > > > > > are you'll find your friends! > > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ---- ------ ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > > > > > at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll > > > > > > find your friends! > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ---- -----_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:25:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:25:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 96344 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:25:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:25:38 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNPaB51507 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:25:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004301c0b0cb$c917be40$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <99645t+fon9@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] (unknown) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:24:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" It's a combo of "Display results when poll is closed" and "Display voter identity with each vote" that will allow the id of voters to be shown after the vote has taken place. I had to go to the site to look this up. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:19 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] (unknown) > The only options are show voter identity with each vote > or > do not show voter idenitity > > What has been the normal procdure? > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:26:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:26:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 15586 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:26:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNQjB51549 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:26:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005401c0b0cb$f25ffb00$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <985041012.693.79192.n4@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:25:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > final results: > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:27:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:27:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 17139 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:27:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 00:28:26 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNRKB51593 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:27:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005e01c0b0cc$075371e0$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <985041012.693.79192.n4@yahoogroups.com> <005401c0b0cb$f25ffb00$cea811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:26:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Or Bob. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > final results: > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Mar 19 15:28:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 99294 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:28:04 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-21.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.206]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2JNS3B51644 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:28:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006a01c0b0cc$20a9f4c0$cea811d0@computer> To: References: <985041012.693.79192.n4@yahoogroups.com> <005401c0b0cb$f25ffb00$cea811d0@computer> <005e01c0b0cc$075371e0$cea811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:27:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" But probably Fritz. ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > Or Bob. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:25 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 19 15:38:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 19 Mar 2001 23:38:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 46184 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2001 23:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 00:39:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:58:12 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:49:58 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 19 Mar 01 17:49:29 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:49:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006a01c0b0cc$20a9f4c0$cea811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05b821258231331ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I was bettin Bob On 19 Mar 01, at 18:27, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > But probably Fritz. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:26 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > Or Bob. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 19 20:49:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 04:49:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 95095 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 04:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 04:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 04:49:04 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA05521 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:49:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005b01c0b0f9$3e30ba60$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <05b821258231331ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:50:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Am I even in the running? I'm hurt. --e ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kirkland" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > I was bettin Bob > > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:27, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > But probably Fritz. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > Or Bob. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:25 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the > > > > > final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 04:43:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 12:43:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 61439 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 12:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 12:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 12:43:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 12:43:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:43:23 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Message-ID: <997j9b+os9a@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <05b062733231331ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6193 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... In any event, I voted against it. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Admittedly this is my mistake, but in all seriousness, I do not think > we can permit hidden voting. If everyone would simply report what > they voted that would solve it. Otherwise I think another (non- > binding? poll is necessary. > The rules of the game imply (and not subtly) that all votes must > become public. > > If the person who voted for it wants to be let me know outside I will > shut up, but I really think we all ought to insist that it become > public somehow. > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted how, so it's > > a done deal... No harm, no foul. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > There was an option that you could have/should have checked when you > > > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if it's > > > possible. > > > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can do > > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points being > > > > > given out this round... > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't this > > > > > > show how each member voted? I can't see it anywhere Who voted > > > > > > for it? > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > > > > > > the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made > > > > > > > at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll > > > > > > > find your friends! > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > ------ ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > > friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -----_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 06:30:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 14:30:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 90265 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 14:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 14:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 14:30:04 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA08489 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:32:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 07:03:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:03:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 91309 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mq.egroups.com) (10.1.1.36) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:03:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 14:59:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:59:45 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <997r91+jaf2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1336 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... I like this. There ought to be no way that this power could be used to change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used purely for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. I think the unanimity works in this direction... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already drafted > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 07:09:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:09:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 16478 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:09:21 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12783 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:09:19 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:11:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <997r91+jaf2@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > I like this. > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used purely > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > -Fritz I thought that would be enough, but it does force the players to police the suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too limited? --e > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > intent of the rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > period, and must be > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > of the > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > suggestion > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > rule(s) are > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > objects, the > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made > again. > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > drafted > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 20 07:11:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 43410 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:11:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2KFBpB31305 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:11:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c0b14f$f91af4c0$bca811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:10:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey there, Mr. Itchy-Trigger-Finger, I still haven't sent out the score report! But it's on the way... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already drafted > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 20 07:14:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:14:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14720 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:15:52 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2KFEkB31638 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:14:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c0b150$61930920$bca811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score Report Round 316 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:13:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Paul Kirkland loses 10 points since Proposal 316 did not pass. EV 64 PB 60 FH 40.5 PK 30.5 BA 30 From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 07:18:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:18:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 62438 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:18:43 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.4] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 15:18:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:18:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <997sch+r65u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2295 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them very vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of unanimous consent. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > I like this. > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used purely > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > -Fritz > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the players to police the > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too limited? > --e > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > reasons: > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > period, and must be > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > > of the > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > > suggestion > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > rule(s) are > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > objects, the > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made > > again. > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > drafted > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 20 07:27:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 85433 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:28:12 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2KFR6B32920 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:27:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501c0b152$1a647640$bca811d0@computer> To: References: <997sch+r65u@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:26:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of consent prevail. What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps on the opportunity to "correct" one of my rules? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them very > vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of > unanimous consent. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > purely > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the players to > police the > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too > limited? > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > following > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > > period, and must be > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > report > > > of the > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > the > > > suggestion > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > rule(s) are > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > objects, the > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > made > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > already > > > drafted > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 07:46:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:46:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 7682 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:46:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:46:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:47:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA16892 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:46:18 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:48:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <001b01c0b14f$f91af4c0$bca811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Was I supposed to wait? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:11 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > Hey there, Mr. Itchy-Trigger-Finger, I still haven't sent out the score > report! > > But it's on the way... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:32 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > following reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > and must be > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > suggestion > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > rule(s) are > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already drafted > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 20 07:58:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 15:58:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 48578 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:58:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 15:58:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:59:45 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2KFwdB36050 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:58:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000501c0b156$832ad4e0$bca811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:57:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I guess that you didn't have to. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:48 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > Was I supposed to wait? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:11 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > Hey there, Mr. Itchy-Trigger-Finger, I still haven't sent out the score > > report! > > > > But it's on the way... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:32 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > following reasons: > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > > rule. > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > > and must be > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > > suggestion > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > rule(s) are > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already drafted > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 20 08:00:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:00:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 72805 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:01:04 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2KFxvB36256 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c0b156$b1fc9c40$bca811d0@computer> To: References: <997j9b+os9a@eGroups.com> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:59:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" AAAARGHH! Wrong again. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Poll results for scatterbrains > In any event, I voted against it. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > Admittedly this is my mistake, but in all seriousness, I do not > think > > we can permit hidden voting. If everyone would simply report > what > > they voted that would solve it. Otherwise I think another (non- > > binding? poll is necessary. > > The rules of the game imply (and not subtly) that all votes must > > become public. > > > > If the person who voted for it wants to be let me know outside I > will > > shut up, but I really think we all ought to insist that it become > > public somehow. > > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > I just put on my moderator hat, and I can't see who voted > how, so it's > > > a done deal... No harm, no foul. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:03 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > There was an option that you could have/should have > checked when you > > > > created the poll. I'm not sure now that the poll has closed if > it's > > > > possible. > > > > > > > > My guess is that if it is, then you are the only one who can > do > > > > anything, since you're the author. > > > > > > > > But I dunno. Better ask one of the computer geeks... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:09 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > I realize that, but I would like to know. > > > > > Seriously, how do you get the voter results > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 17:53, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, it doesn't matter, since there aren't any points > being > > > > > > given out this round... > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:50 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for > scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did i do something wrong setting up the poll shouldn't > this > > > > > > > show how each member voted? I can't see it > anywhere Who voted > > > > > > > for it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 22:30, scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. > Here are > > > > > > > > the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 > (The Good > > > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you > made > > > > > > > > at graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com > has over 14 > > > > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are > you'll > > > > > > > > find your friends! > > > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > ------ ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you > made at > > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over > 14 million > > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > your > > > > > > friends! > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -----_ -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 08:12:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:12:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 78069 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:12:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:12:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:13:44 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:31:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:23:52 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:23:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:23:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005b01c0b0f9$3e30ba60$126d1d40@v...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05cff5631161431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Actually I thought it had you and Bob. That is why I want to know who On 19 Mar 01, at 23:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Am I even in the running? I'm hurt. > --e > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Kirkland" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:49 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > I was bettin Bob > > > > On 19 Mar 01, at 18:27, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > But probably Fritz. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:26 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > Or Bob. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 6:25 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > My money's on Fritz as the lone "yes" man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Poll results for scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are > > > > > > the final results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > POLL QUESTION: Do you approve Proposal 316 (The Good > > > > > > Point Rule?(see list for details) > > > > > > > > > > > > CHOICES AND RESULTS > > > > > > - yes, 2 votes, 40.00% > > > > > > - no, 3 votes, 60.00% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about this group, please visit > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains > > > > > > > > > > > > For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit > > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 08:16:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:16:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 83916 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:16:49 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20270 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:16:47 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:19:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <003501c0b152$1a647640$bca811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Would it suck too much to have to go to the polls each time? My thinking is that it'll sloppy up the polling area. Another option is an additional 5 days review period, for corrections to corrections; It goes into the rules after 5, then there are an additional 5 days to object. Maybe that's too complicated... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:26 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of consent prevail. > What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps on the opportunity to > "correct" one of my rules? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them very > > vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of > > unanimous consent. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > > purely > > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. > > > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the players to > > police the > > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too > > limited? > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > > > period, and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > report > > > > of the > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > > objects, the > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > made > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > already > > > > drafted > > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 08:20:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:20:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27363 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:20:10 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:39:22 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:31:17 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:31:17 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:31:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score Report Round 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002101c0b150$61930920$bca811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05ca32239161431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" E I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you tell me how you voted. Bob you could settle this too. I honestly think that I have the right to INSIST that it be part of the public record (My mistake was techinically outside the official activity of Nomic) P.S. Do I get a beer too for A. pointing out Fritz's mistake B. Not taking the prudent course and proposing something to address this problem first. On 20 Mar 01, at 10:13, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Paul Kirkland loses 10 points since Proposal 316 did not pass. > > EV 64 > PB 60 > FH 40.5 > PK 30.5 > BA 30 > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 08:21:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:21:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 12161 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:21:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:40:51 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:32:47 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:32:37 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:32:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score Report Round 316 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002101c0b150$61930920$bca811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05d895140161431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" sorry, one more note: Do you think my proposal would have succeeded if I had named the award (BEERs instead of HPs? On 20 Mar 01, at 10:13, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Paul Kirkland loses 10 points since Proposal 316 did not pass. > > EV 64 > PB 60 > FH 40.5 > PK 30.5 > BA 30 > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 08:22:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:22:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4111 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:23:41 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA20945 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:22:32 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Score Report Round 316 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:24:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <05ca32239161431ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Paul, did you ever vote for anyone's proposal? Gimme a break... I AM SPARTACUS!!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Score Report Round 316 > > > E > I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you tell me how you > voted. > Bob you could settle this too. > I honestly think that I have the right to INSIST that it be part of the > public record (My mistake was techinically outside the official > activity of Nomic) > > P.S. Do I get a beer too for > A. pointing out Fritz's mistake > B. Not taking the prudent course and proposing something to > address this problem first. > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 10:13, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > Paul Kirkland loses 10 points since Proposal 316 did not pass. > > > > EV 64 > > PB 60 > > FH 40.5 > > PK 30.5 > > BA 30 > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 08:25:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:25:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20963 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:25:34 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:44:49 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:36:45 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 10:36:17 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:36:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000501c0b156$832ad4e0$bca811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05ed34944161431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I disagree, I think that the turn does not begin until the other turn is over. This could matter if anything were determined by turns. I think I am going to be a bastard and insist that this is not an official proposal until you send it after the previous turns ends. On 20 Mar 01, at 10:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I guess that you didn't have to. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:48 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > Was I supposed to wait? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:11 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > Hey there, Mr. Itchy-Trigger-Finger, I still haven't sent out the > > > score report! > > > > > > But it's on the way... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:32 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > > following reasons: > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent > > > > of the > > > rule. > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > > > and must be > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of > > > > the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > > > the > > > suggestion > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > rule(s) are > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > > objects, > the > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > drafted > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 08:27:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:27:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 18163 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:27:40 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21541 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:27:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Score Report Round 316 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:29:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <05ca32239161431ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > P.S. Do I get a beer too for > A. pointing out Fritz's mistake > B. Not taking the prudent course and proposing something to > address this problem first. As long as they're free... One beer for Paul. From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 08:27:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 16:27:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 13473 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 16:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:27:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21548 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:27:41 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <05ed34944161431ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Gimme my beer back!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:36 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > I disagree, I think that the turn does not begin until the other turn is > over. This could matter if anything were determined by turns. > > I think I am going to be a bastard and insist that this is not an > official proposal until you send it after the previous turns ends. > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 10:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > I guess that you didn't have to. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:48 AM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > Was I supposed to wait? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:11 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey there, Mr. Itchy-Trigger-Finger, I still haven't sent out the > > > > score report! > > > > > > > > But it's on the way... > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: Scatterbrains Nomic > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 9:32 AM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > > > following reasons: > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent > > > > > of the > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > > > > and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of > > > > > the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > > > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > > > objects, > > the > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > drafted > > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 09:09:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 17:09:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 39117 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 17:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:09:35 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 16:56:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:56:09 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <998239+lg47@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <003501c0b152$1a647640$bca811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 3376 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Unanimous consent means unanimous. If you aren't here to consent, it's not unanimous. Right? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of consent prevail. > What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps on the opportunity to > "correct" one of my rules? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them very > > vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of > > unanimous consent. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > > purely > > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious errors. > > > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the players to > > police the > > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too > > limited? > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > > > period, and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > report > > > > of the > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > > objects, the > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > made > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > already > > > > drafted > > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 09:15:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 17:15:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 76650 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 17:15:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:16:22 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:34:33 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 11:26:29 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 11:26:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:25:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <998239+lg47@eGroups.com> References: <003501c0b152$1a647640$bca811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05de43334171431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Is there a proposal 317? On 20 Mar 01, at 16:56, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Unanimous consent means unanimous. If you aren't here to > consent, it's not unanimous. > > Right? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of > consent prevail. > What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps > on the opportunity to > "correct" one of my rules? > > ----- Original > Message ----- > From: > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: > Proposal 317 > > > > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or > make them very > > vague and/or general, and just rely on the > principle of > > unanimous consent. > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In > scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: f_hemker@h... > [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: > Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used to > > > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > > purely > > > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious > errors. > > > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this > direction... > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > I thought that would > be enough, but it does force the players to > > police the > > > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction too > > > limited? > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to > the rules for the > > following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a > poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or > gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct > an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > 5. To > eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > > > > period, and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must > post a detailed > > report > > > > of the > > > > > suggested changes > to the list. If there are no objections to > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, > the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written > suggestion. If any player > > > > objects, the > > > > > rules are > not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > made > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to > work out, and though I had > > already > > > > drafted > > > > > this, > I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To > unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 09:19:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 17:19:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 53280 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 17:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:19:38 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA27613 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:19:37 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:21:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <998239+lg47@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Unanimous consent means unanimous. If you aren't here to > consent, it's not unanimous. > > Right? > > -Fritz That's a problem with the mechanism I described. If he doesn't object, it passes... --e > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > wrote: > > Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of consent > prevail. > > What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps on the > opportunity to > > "correct" one of my rules? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them > very > > > vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of > > > unanimous consent. > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used > to > > > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > > > purely > > > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious > errors. > > > > > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the > players to > > > police the > > > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction > too > > > limited? > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > > following > > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the > understood > > > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active > rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a > rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal > proposal > > > > > period, and must be > > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a > detailed > > > report > > > > > of the > > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections > to > > > the > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, > the > > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any > player > > > > > objects, the > > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > > made > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > > already > > > > > drafted > > > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 11:42:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 19:42:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 53816 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 19:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 19:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 19:42:45 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.163] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 19:42:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:42:41 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <998brh+tgpc@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4346 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Ah, I see now. Yes, that would be a problem. Hmmm... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > Unanimous consent means unanimous. If you aren't here to > > consent, it's not unanimous. > > > > Right? > > > > -Fritz > > That's a problem with the mechanism I described. If he doesn't object, it > passes... > --e > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" > > wrote: > > > Speaking of which, I'd rather see the stronger notion of consent > > prevail. > > > What if I go to Spain for a week, and Fritz jumps on the > > opportunity to > > > "correct" one of my rules? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:18 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you ought to deep-six the reasons, or make them > > very > > > > vague and/or general, and just rely on the principle of > > > > unanimous consent. > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:00 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > There ought to be no way that this power could be used > > to > > > > > > change the "sense" of the rule. Rather, it should be used > > > > purely > > > > > > for the clarification of rules and correction of obvious > > errors. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the unanimity works in this direction... > > > > > > > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > > > > > I thought that would be enough, but it does force the > > players to > > > > police the > > > > > suggestions. Is the list of possible reasons for correction > > too > > > > limited? > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > > > following > > > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the > > understood > > > > > > intent of the rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active > > rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a > > rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal > > proposal > > > > > > period, and must be > > > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a > > detailed > > > > report > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections > > to > > > > the > > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, > > the > > > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any > > player > > > > > > objects, the > > > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > > > made > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > > > already > > > > > > drafted > > > > > > > this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 11:59:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 19:59:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 80520 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 19:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 19:59:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 19:59:00 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:18:14 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 14:10:11 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 14:09:49 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:09:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05ddf1418201431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Assuming this will be proposal 317 there seem to be two parts one is essentially a "committee on style" provision The other is to fix "an error." This seems like it could become quite expansive. Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. OR What about a time limit after adoption? Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the first place. An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to revisions. I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the possibility of revision at some point. We need to know what the law is. On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > reasons: > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > rule. > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player voices > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion > cannot be made again. > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 12:43:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 20:43:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 99228 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 20:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 20:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 20:43:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA20227 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:43:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:45:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <05ddf1418201431ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you tell me how you voted." > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > there seem to be two parts > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > The other is to fix "an error." I have to admit I don't get the distinction. > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. It's a method of changing the rules outside of the turn schedule. > > OR > > What about a time limit after adoption? Why? > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the first > place. > An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to > revisions. The rule can be changed without unanimity by an amendment, by a proposal. > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > possibility of revision at some point. > We need to know what the law is. The law is not only what's written, but what's commonly understood to be the law. These suggested rule changes will have to be, above all, non-controversial. BTW- There are 2 spelling errors in the body of the proposal, no fair spell-checking! > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > > rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player voices > > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. > > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion > > cannot be made again. > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 13:02:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 21:02:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 52743 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 21:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 21:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 21:02:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:21:36 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 15:13:34 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 15:13:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:13:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05ddf1418201431ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05f353621211431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you > tell me how you voted." > just some friendly questions > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > > there seem to be two parts > > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > > The other is to fix "an error." > > I have to admit I don't get the distinction. > > > > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. > > It's a method of changing the rules outside of the turn schedule. > > > > > OR > > > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > Why? > > > > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the > > first place. An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting > > to revisions. > > The rule can be changed without unanimity by an amendment, by a > proposal. > > > > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > > possibility of revision at some point. We need to know what the law > > is. > > The law is not only what's written, but what's commonly understood to > be the law. These suggested rule changes will have to be, above all, > non-controversial. > But why not set a time limit. It will encourage actually reviewing the rule rather than waiting until a controversy emerges to fix "non- controversial things" I imagine that you already do something like this when you add rules to the HTML ruleset, but why does the time for this activity need to be indefinite. There seem to be four different time frames to play with. 1-the debate stage itself 2-after final proposal has been sent 3- some specified period between the closing of the poll and final addition to the list 4- the entirety of the game At current changes can be made only in 1, do we need to go all the way to 4 to allow minor corrections. My thought was 3 (some period of days, and then another vote--if an amending clause is added the votes may in fact change) > BTW- There are 2 spelling errors in the body of the proposal, no fair > spell-checking! > > > > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > > reasons: > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of > > > the rule. > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > > report of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no > > > objections to the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every > > > player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the > > > written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not > > > changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 13:08:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 65688 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 21:08:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:27:36 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 15:19:34 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 15:19:27 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:19:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05ddf1418201431ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05dd83627211431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you > tell me how you voted." All I want to know is how much I can assume rational action from you. I suppose I already know that I cannot. But, besides my own curiosity, I do think the game demands open voting, and we should leave no precedent of allowing otherwise. BTW-I made clear my reason for every one of my No votes including the one that was provoked by my first mistaken assumption of your (E) rational action. I am not just voting No for folly or points. From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 13:30:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 21:29:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28573 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 21:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 21:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 21:29:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.2.211] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 21:29:58 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:29:55 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <998i4j+krjp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <05ddf1418201431ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2973 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... I'm assuming a minimum of collegiality, like in the real Senate. Sure, you could screw your buddy in the short run, but eventually you might need some capital saved up for the future. Unanimity because this sort of thing is outside the normal rule making process. It should only apply for things that are so obviously needed as to be uncontroversial. Perhaps there should be a time frame within which objection must be heard... 10 days or so? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > there seem to be two parts > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > The other is to fix "an error." > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. > > OR > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the first > place. > An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to > revisions. > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > possibility of revision at some point. > We need to know what the law is. > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > > rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player voices > > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. > > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion > > cannot be made again. > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 14:04:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:04:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 61385 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:04:03 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA28761 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:04:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:06:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <05dd83627211431ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you > > tell me how you voted." > > All I want to know is how much I can assume rational action from > you. I suppose I already know that I cannot. Huh? I barked at you once due to a 102 fever, but aside from that, why would you assume I wouldn't act rationally? > > But, besides my own curiosity, I do think the game demands open > voting, and we should leave no precedent of allowing otherwise. > > BTW-I made clear my reason for every one of my No votes > including the one that was provoked by my first mistaken > assumption of your (E) rational action. > > I am not just voting No for folly or points. My point was that your threat of withholding a vote doesn't really matter, since you haven't voted for a single proposal yet. And publicly announcing that you won't vote for my proposal because I'm not disclosing how I voted doesn't really give me much incentive to justify my proposal to you. --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 14:11:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:11:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 37135 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:09:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:09:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 23:10:31 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA29282 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:09:25 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:11:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <998i4j+krjp@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:30 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > I'm assuming a minimum of collegiality, like in the real Senate. > Sure, you could screw your buddy in the short run, but eventually > you might need some capital saved up for the future. > > Unanimity because this sort of thing is outside the normal rule > making process. It should only apply for things that are so > obviously needed as to be uncontroversial. Well said. > > Perhaps there should be a time frame within which objection > must be heard... 10 days or so? There's already a 5 day review period, or are you talking about something else? --e > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > > there seem to be two parts > > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > > The other is to fix "an error." > > > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. > > > > OR > > > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the > first > > place. > > An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to > > revisions. > > > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > > possibility of revision at some point. > > We need to know what the law is. > > > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > following > > > reasons: > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > intent of the > > > rule. > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > period, and > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a > detailed report > > > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no > objections to > > > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player > voices > > > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written > suggestion. > > > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the > suggestion > > > cannot be made again. > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > already > > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 14:14:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:14:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 50597 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:13:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:13:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:13:47 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:33:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 16:25:00 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 16:24:40 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:24:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05dd83627211431ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0602a0033221431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Mar 01, at 17:06, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl > > > you tell me how you voted." > > > > All I want to know is how much I can assume rational action from > > you. I suppose I already know that I cannot. > > Huh? I barked at you once due to a 102 fever, but aside from that, > why would you assume I wouldn't act rationally? > There was also that bargaining issue. Well that depends on whether you made continual suggestions for improving a rule you did not intend to vote for. > > But, besides my own curiosity, I do think the game demands open > > voting, and we should leave no precedent of allowing otherwise. > > > > BTW-I made clear my reason for every one of my No votes > > including the one that was provoked by my first mistaken > > assumption of your (E) rational action. > > > > I am not just voting No for folly or points. > > My point was that your threat of withholding a vote doesn't really > matter, since you haven't voted for a single proposal yet. And > publicly announcing that you won't vote for my proposal because I'm > not disclosing how I voted doesn't really give me much incentive to > justify my proposal to you. Unless I mean I won't vote ON it until then. Geessss. I really did not think this would be a big deal. Having announced my reasons... I would like the same courtesy from you if you voted against after I made every change you suggested. If it matters, I think I agree with F's last post. I would really prefer discussing things on the merits. pk > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 20 14:17:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 50292 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:17:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:36:29 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 16:28:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Mar 01 16:27:59 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:27:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05dd83627211431ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05d2b2936221431ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" PS PB was going to reply this with some form of ridicule of those who assume a rational actor model for political behavior (as soon as he came up with a short enough witty way to do it) From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 20 14:20:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:20:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 63855 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:18:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2001 22:18:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:18:43 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 317 Message-ID: <998l04+irk4@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4065 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... I was thinking that perhaps you could extend it long enough so that there would be no problems with people not getting around to objecting... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:30 PM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > I'm assuming a minimum of collegiality, like in the real Senate. > > Sure, you could screw your buddy in the short run, but eventually > > you might need some capital saved up for the future. > > > > Unanimity because this sort of thing is outside the normal rule > > making process. It should only apply for things that are so > > obviously needed as to be uncontroversial. > > Well said. > > > > > Perhaps there should be a time frame within which objection > > must be heard... 10 days or so? > > There's already a 5 day review period, or are you talking about something > else? > --e > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > > > there seem to be two parts > > > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > > > The other is to fix "an error." > > > > > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > > > > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. > > > > > > OR > > > > > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > > > > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the > > first > > > place. > > > An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to > > > revisions. > > > > > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > > > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > > > possibility of revision at some point. > > > We need to know what the law is. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > intent of the > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > period, and > > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a > > detailed report > > > > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no > > objections to > > > > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player > > voices > > > > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written > > suggestion. > > > > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the > > suggestion > > > > cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > already > > > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > friends! > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 14:29:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:29:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 99178 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 23:28:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA01191 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:27:27 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:29:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <05f353621211431ISWEBNT@d...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:13 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl you > > tell me how you voted." > > > just some friendly questions > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 3:10 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > > > there seem to be two parts > > > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > > > The other is to fix "an error." > > > > I have to admit I don't get the distinction. > > > > > > > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > > > > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal stage. > > > > It's a method of changing the rules outside of the turn schedule. > > > > > > > > OR > > > > > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > > > Why? > > > > > > > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in the > > > first place. An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting > > > to revisions. > > > > The rule can be changed without unanimity by an amendment, by a > > proposal. > > > > > > > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the turn. > > > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > > > possibility of revision at some point. We need to know what the law > > > is. > > > > The law is not only what's written, but what's commonly understood to > > be the law. These suggested rule changes will have to be, above all, > > non-controversial. > > > But why not set a time limit. It will encourage actually reviewing > the rule rather than waiting until a controversy emerges to fix "non- > controversial things" Mostly for Reasons 1, 3 and 4. These could all apply to the original rules, as well as recently passed rules. Suppose someone amends 308, and it becomes 599. 313 refers to 308 in the language, so it could be corrected no matter how long it's been on the books. I do agree with the sentiment, but that's what the proposal review period's for. > > I imagine that you already do something like this when you add > rules to the HTML ruleset, but why does the time for this activity > need to be indefinite. > > There seem to be four different time frames to play with. > 1-the debate stage itself > 2-after final proposal has been sent > 3- some specified period between the closing of the poll and final > addition to the list > 4- the entirety of the game > > At current changes can be made only in 1, do we need to go all the > way to 4 to allow minor corrections. No offense to Fritz, but the final proposal should be _exactly_ what the last revision was, and posted _really, really carefully_ It is the actual body of the Rule, and you were right to vote against 316 as it was for that very reason. So I'm against changing the proposal at stage 2, as I believe you are by what you said above. I think changing anything at stage 3 is inherently unfair. Rule 106 explicitly prohibits it, besides. > > My thought was 3 (some period of days, and then another vote--if > an amending clause is added the votes may in fact change) > > > > > BTW- There are 2 spelling errors in the body of the proposal, no fair > > spell-checking! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of > > > > the rule. > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > > > report of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no > > > > objections to the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every > > > > player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the > > > > written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not > > > > changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had already > > > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > > iWin.com for your chance to win! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/r_1oCB/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 20 14:33:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 20 Mar 2001 22:33:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 588 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:33:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2001 22:33:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:33:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA01715 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:33:00 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:35:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <998l04+irk4@eGroups.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:19 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > I was thinking that perhaps you could extend it long enough so > that there would be no problems with people not getting around > to objecting... The only problem with that is in a case like your last proposal. If we had been closer to the 26 rule limit, we would have been acting with some urgency to correct the mistake. If we waited 10 days another proposal would have come up. That's why I was thinking of enacting changes in 2 phases: 1) Rule is changed after 5 days with no objection, or if everyone has voiced consent. 2) A ten day grace period for anyone to change their mind, or object late. > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:30 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > I'm assuming a minimum of collegiality, like in the real > Senate. > > > Sure, you could screw your buddy in the short run, but > eventually > > > you might need some capital saved up for the future. > > > > > > Unanimity because this sort of thing is outside the normal > rule > > > making process. It should only apply for things that are so > > > obviously needed as to be uncontroversial. > > > > Well said. > > > > > > > > Perhaps there should be a time frame within which objection > > > must be heard... 10 days or so? > > > > There's already a 5 day review period, or are you talking about > something > > else? > > --e > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > > > > Assuming this will be proposal 317 > > > > there seem to be two parts > > > > one is essentially a "committee on style" provision > > > > The other is to fix "an error." > > > > > > > > This seems like it could become quite expansive. > > > > > > > > Why is should this not take place during the proposal > stage. > > > > > > > > OR > > > > > > > > What about a time limit after adoption? > > > > > > > > Why unanimity, why not only the players who voted for it in > the > > > first > > > > place. > > > > An objector could try to undermine the law by objecting to > > > > revisions. > > > > > > > > I would be more comfortable with making this a part of the > turn. > > > > either immediately before or after the vote, but closing the > > > > possibility of revision at some point. > > > > We need to know what the law is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 9:32, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the > > > following > > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood > > > intent of the > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or gramatical errors in an active > rule. > > > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundent sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal > proposal > > > period, and > > > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a > > > detailed report > > > > > of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no > > > objections to > > > > > the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player > > > voices > > > > > consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written > > > suggestion. > > > > > If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the > > > suggestion > > > > > cannot be made again. > > > > > > > > > > There are a few things yet to work out, and though I had > > > already > > > > > drafted this, I'm buying 1 beer for Fritz... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you > made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over > 14 > > > million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > your > > > friends! > > > > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Wed Mar 21 10:49:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 18:49:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 83794 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:48:51 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA25663 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:48:50 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:51:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <0602a0033221431ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 17:06, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > On 20 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > What happened to "I am not going to vote for your proposal unitl > > > > you tell me how you voted." > > > > > > All I want to know is how much I can assume rational action from > > > you. I suppose I already know that I cannot. > > > > Huh? I barked at you once due to a 102 fever, but aside from that, > > why would you assume I wouldn't act rationally? > > > There was also that bargaining issue. > > Well that depends on whether you made continual suggestions for > improving a rule you did not intend to vote for. Ah, so you're interrest in how I voted is partially to see if I acted rationally, since I contributed to the proposal. > > > > But, besides my own curiosity, I do think the game demands open > > > voting, and we should leave no precedent of allowing otherwise. > > > > > > BTW-I made clear my reason for every one of my No votes > > > including the one that was provoked by my first mistaken > > > assumption of your (E) rational action. > > > > > > I am not just voting No for folly or points. > > > > My point was that your threat of withholding a vote doesn't really > > matter, since you haven't voted for a single proposal yet. And > > publicly announcing that you won't vote for my proposal because I'm > > not disclosing how I voted doesn't really give me much incentive to > > justify my proposal to you. > > Unless I mean I won't vote ON it until then. > Geessss. I really did not think this would be a big deal. > > Having announced my reasons... I would like the same courtesy from you > if you voted against after I made every change you suggested. Lets see: 312: I wouldn't give you more than 10 points. 313: I really don't know 314: I told you to vote no 315: You disagreed with the proposal As for me: 316: You never voted for anyone's proposal. > > If it matters, I think I agree with F's last post. I would really prefer > discussing things on the merits. Fine by me. Unfortunately I accidentally deleted F's last post... > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Wed Mar 21 11:03:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 19:03:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 24842 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27329 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:56:53 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037371@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: What did I miss Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:56:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Sorry, I was out all day yesterday. I had to fly to Chicago to fix something. I see there is a new proposal out I will try to catch up today. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From eventi@n... Wed Mar 21 11:16:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 19:16:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 97935 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 19:16:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 19:16:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:17:12 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA28733 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:16:07 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] What did I miss Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:18:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037371@BATMAN> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Recap: 316 got 2/5 votes, and so didn't pass. 317 is on the table. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 1:57 PM > To: Scatterbrains (E-mail) > Subject: [scatterbrains] What did I miss > > > Sorry, I was out all day yesterday. I had to fly to Chicago to fix > something. I see there is a new proposal out I will try to catch up today. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 21 12:39:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 20:39:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 84918 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 20:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 20:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:39:22 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:59:23 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Mar 01 14:50:34 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Mar 01 14:50:07 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:50:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0602a0033221431ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <062682359201531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Mar 01, at 13:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: Real reasons. > Lets see: > 312: I wouldn't give you more than 10 points. Actually I did not like the tax code, I thought that points should be awarded from the pot to "pay" the Scorekeeper not exchanged. I asked for this change before I asked for points. (I assumed you would not offer a bribe if you didn't need the vote and might make the change if you did, but here rational behavior enters the picture) I believe the first form of my proposal and the debate surrounding it showed why. I have now been forced to accept a the majority's view of the nature of points. > 313: I really don't know Automatic penalties are stupidO, (p's Ortegan sense) and do not leave room for the discretion I would like to have seen. > 314: I told you to vote no And since I had been opposed to earlier forms and was pre- occupied I did so. (Again, my mistake was to assume that you were acting rationally and knew that it had passed. ok it was explained by the fever this time) But I went so far as to return the points to show that I favored it. (I would have gotten rid of all ten, but I was not going to give them to someone, I could not simply destroy them. But I did offer to give away all of my points if my proposal passed primarily because I did not think these points were rightfully mine. > 315: You disagreed with the proposal I did finally agree with its spirit, but it does not do anything as written. > > As for me: > 316: You never voted for anyone's proposal. Which is why I was not going to take the points for it if it had passed. Becaue I would genuinely prefer rules to be established on their merits . So you would have gained points and I would not have. Seems to me to be enough to vote on what you thought of it. This is a fine reason, but for the third time your irrational behavior (advising me on this rule down to final details led me to waste all of our time revising a proposal I had assumed was doomed until you did so. PK From eventi@n... Wed Mar 21 13:15:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 21:15:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 32291 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 21:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 21:11:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 21:11:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA12513 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:11:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:13:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <062682359201531ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > As for me: > > 316: You never voted for anyone's proposal. > > Which is why I was not going to take the points for it if it had > passed. Becaue I would genuinely prefer rules to be established > on their merits . > > So you would have gained points and I would not have. Seems to > me to be enough to vote on what you thought of it. > > This is a fine reason, but for the third time your irrational behavior > (advising me on this rule down to final details led me to waste all of > our time revising a proposal I had assumed was doomed until you > did so. > > PK I didn't know no-one else would vote for it, but I do have to admit I felt a little like Brutus when I voted. But I like revising proposals, so why not? And lastly, it really wasn't that good 'on the merits' either. Let it go!!! --e From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 21 13:25:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 21 Mar 2001 21:25:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 61453 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 21:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2001 21:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 22:26:02 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:44:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 21 Mar 01 15:36:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 21 Mar 01 15:35:45 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:35:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Rational Behavior (was: Proposal 317) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <062682359201531ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05f905944211531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 21 Mar 01, at 16:13, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > As for me: > > > 316: You never voted for anyone's proposal. > > > > Which is why I was not going to take the points for it if it had > > passed. Becaue I would genuinely prefer rules to be established on > > their merits . > > > > So you would have gained points and I would not have. Seems to me > > to be enough to vote on what you thought of it. > > > > This is a fine reason, but for the third time your irrational > > behavior (advising me on this rule down to final details led me to > > waste all of our time revising a proposal I had assumed was doomed > > until you did so. > > > > PK > > I didn't know no-one else would vote for it, Not that it would have matterd, but I blew off patrick Because I thought I had you and Bob and I was not going to get any points either way, because I was planning to keep my word and give them back but I do have to admit I > felt > a little like Brutus when I voted. Sorry I did not propose set the vote on Thursday But I like revising proposals, so > why not? And lastly, it really wasn't that good 'on the merits' > either. Let it go!!! I tried and you felt the need to misrepresent my reasons for every one of my votes. WTF. Seriously, fair enough I was a pain, and you voted agaisnt a questionable proposal after screwing with me a bit. Fine. You could have said that the first time i asked. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/n4HqaC/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 07:23:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 15:23:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 73971 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 15:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:24:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA16162 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:23:06 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:25:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <05f905944211531ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction doesn't happen behind a player's back? I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for review. --e From bernardo@c... Thu Mar 22 07:29:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 15:29:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 35314 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:29:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 15:29:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 15:29:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-07.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.192]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2MFTGB47384 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:29:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901c0b2e4$bcbd8b00$c0a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:28:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent from the original author? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction doesn't happen > behind a player's back? > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, the > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is > re-opened for review. > > --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 07:40:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 15:40:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 19475 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 15:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:39:14 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA17621 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:38:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:40:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <003901c0b2e4$bcbd8b00$c0a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with someone else's proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, with the expressed permission of the current proponent"? What do you think of the other change? --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent from the > original author? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > doesn't happen > > behind a player's back? > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > and must be > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > suggestion > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > rule(s) are > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > Furthermore, > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, > the > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is > > re-opened for review. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 22 07:45:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 15:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 46170 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 15:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 15:44:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2001 15:44:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:44:20 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: On Proposal 317 Message-ID: <99d6kk+l8kt@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2317 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the normal course of the agreement as set out already? -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with someone else's > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > period, with the expressed permission of the current proponent"? What do > you think of the other change? > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent from the > > original author? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > doesn't happen > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, > > and must be > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the > > suggestion > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > rule(s) are > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. > > Furthermore, > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, > > the > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 07:49:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 15:49:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 49034 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 15:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:49:42 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA18699 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:48:37 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:50:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <99d6kk+l8kt@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Yes, but what if the mere suggestion causes trouble with his proposal? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:44 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the > normal course of the agreement as set out already? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with > someone else's > > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside > the normal proposal > > period, with the expressed permission of the current > proponent"? What do > > you think of the other change? > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent > from the > > > original author? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > > doesn't happen > > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > period, > > > and must be > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > report of the > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > the > > > suggestion > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > rule(s) are > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > objects, the > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > made again. > > > Furthermore, > > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules > being changed, > > > the > > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > suggestion is > > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 22 08:25:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:25:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 87785 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 17:25:57 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:44:48 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:36:11 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:35:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:35:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <99d6kk+l8kt@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0635e4844161631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Why does the author have a privileged status after the rule is passed? On 22 Mar 01, at 10:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Yes, but what if the mere suggestion causes trouble with his proposal? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:44 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > > > > Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the > > normal course of the agreement as set out already? > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with > > someone else's > > > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside > > the normal proposal > > > period, with the expressed permission of the current > > proponent"? What do > > > you think of the other change? > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent > > from the > > > > original author? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > > > doesn't happen > > > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > period, > > > > and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > report of the > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > objects, the > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > made again. > > > > Furthermore, > > > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules > > being changed, > > > > the > > > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > > suggestion is > > > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 22 08:28:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:28:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 56520 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 17:28:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:47:21 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:38:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:38:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:38:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: minimal COLEGIALITY Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <062ac2147161631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate yesterday. From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 08:32:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:32:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 69314 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:32:35 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA23521 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:32:34 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:34:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <0635e4844161631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Oh, I understood his question to be regarding the current _proponent_ but he did say author. In fact I didn't answer his question at all. OK, Pat, why consent of the original author? Granted, it's a good idea to do so, and I don't think abyone would presume to understand the intent without asking first, but why should he have to be consulted? As Fritz said, he could object, and kill the suggestion. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:36 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > Why does the author have a privileged status after the rule is > passed? > > On 22 Mar 01, at 10:50, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > Yes, but what if the mere suggestion causes trouble with his proposal? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:44 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the > > > normal course of the agreement as set out already? > > > > > > -Fritz > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > wrote: > > > > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with > > > someone else's > > > > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside > > > the normal proposal > > > > period, with the expressed permission of the current > > > proponent"? What do > > > > you think of the other change? > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent > > > from the > > > > > original author? > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > > > > doesn't happen > > > > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > > period, > > > > > and must be > > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > > report of the > > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > > the > > > > > suggestion > > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > > objects, the > > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > > made again. > > > > > Furthermore, > > > > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules > > > being changed, > > > > > the > > > > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > > > suggestion is > > > > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 08:38:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:38:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 92036 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:37:40 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA24274 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:37:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <99d6kk+l8kt@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Let's try that again, this time understanding Pat's question... I agree, why would he need any more consideration than that? --e > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:44 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the > normal course of the agreement as set out already? > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > wrote: > > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with > someone else's > > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside > the normal proposal > > period, with the expressed permission of the current > proponent"? What do > > you think of the other change? > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent > from the > > > original author? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > > doesn't happen > > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > period, > > > and must be > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > report of the > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > the > > > suggestion > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > rule(s) are > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > objects, the > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > made again. > > > Furthermore, > > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules > being changed, > > > the > > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > suggestion is > > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 08:38:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:38:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 94044 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 17:38:44 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA24265 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:37:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] minimal COLEGIALITY Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:39:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <062ac2147161631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Ungh! I had to go and picture that! Can you imagine what it must have smelled like? > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 11:38 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] minimal COLEGIALITY > > > Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate > yesterday. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 22 08:43:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 16:43:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7293 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:42:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 16:42:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:42:20 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 11:02:15 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:53:37 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 10:53:35 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:53:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <99d6kk+l8kt@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <063fc1502171631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Ok, but why not expressed consent of all (or perhaps all who originally voted for it)? On 22 Mar 01, at 11:39, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Let's try that again, this time understanding Pat's question... > > I agree, why would he need any more consideration than that? > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:44 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: On Proposal 317 > > > > > > Wouldn't that player be able to voice his/her objection within the > > normal course of the agreement as set out already? > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > wrote: > > > I was going to... There's quite a potential to mess with > > someone else's > > > proposal. How about "The suggestion may be made outside > > the normal proposal > > > period, with the expressed permission of the current > > proponent"? What do > > > you think of the other change? > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:28 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be good to specify that you need definite consent > > from the > > > > original author? > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:25 AM > > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] On Proposal 317 > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would be a satisfactory way to make sure a correction > > > > doesn't happen > > > > > behind a player's back? > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking of replacing the last paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal > > period, > > > > and must be > > > > > agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > report of the > > > > > suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to > > the > > > > suggestion > > > > > after 5 business days, or if every player voices consent, the > > > > rule(s) are > > > > > changed according to the written suggestion. If any player > > objects, the > > > > > rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be > > made again. > > > > Furthermore, > > > > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules > > being changed, > > > > the > > > > > rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > > suggestion is > > > > > re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> We give away $70,000 a month! Come to > iWin.com for your chance to win! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/olMXHC/BJVCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 22 12:46:51 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 20:46:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 18526 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 20:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 20:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 20:46:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2001 20:46:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:46:46 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: minimal COLEGIALITY Message-ID: <99dobm+bn5q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <062ac2147161631ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 234 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... I'm sure it wasn't much of a hug. I can't believe Orin's arms are long enough... -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate > yesterday. From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 22 12:53:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 36853 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 20:53:14 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:13:06 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 15:04:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 15:04:21 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:04:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: minimal COLEGIALITY Priority: normal In-reply-to: <99dobm+bn5q@eGroups.com> References: <062ac2147161631ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <063f40613211631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" It was a bizarre sight. I thought you would have something more cynical than that to say. On 22 Mar 01, at 20:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > I'm sure it wasn't much of a hug. I can't believe Orin's arms are > long enough... > > -Fritz > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate > > yesterday. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Get great low international calling rates > from Net2Phone! Click Here! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/fBRVBB/kJXCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Thu Mar 22 13:35:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 21:35:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 56048 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 21:35:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 21:35:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 21:35:51 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.106] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2001 21:35:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:35:48 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: minimal COLEGIALITY Message-ID: <99dr7k+lruj@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <063f40613211631ISWEBNT@d...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1146 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Are you sure it was a hug? Maybe Ted was trying to eat Orin. Perhaps they had to give him a few shots of JD to get him calmed down. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > It was a bizarre sight. > > I thought you would have something more cynical than that to say. > > > On 22 Mar 01, at 20:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > I'm sure it wasn't much of a hug. I can't believe Orin's arms are > > long enough... > > > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate > > > yesterday. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Get great low international calling rates > > from Net2Phone! Click Here! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/fBRVBB/kJXCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From eventi@n... Thu Mar 22 13:43:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 21:43:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 31612 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 21:42:39 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA26892 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:42:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: minimal COLEGIALITY Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:44:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <99dr7k+lruj@eGroups.com> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Did anybody else picture Jabba the Hut with Princes Leah? > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 4:36 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: minimal COLEGIALITY > > > Are you sure it was a hug? Maybe Ted was trying to eat Orin. > Perhaps they had to give him a few shots of JD to get him > calmed down. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > It was a bizarre sight. > > > > I thought you would have something more cynical than that to > say. > > > > > > On 22 Mar 01, at 20:46, f_hemker@h... wrote: > > > > > I'm sure it wasn't much of a hug. I can't believe Orin's arms > are > > > long enough... > > > > > > -Fritz > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" > wrote: > > > > Orin Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the > Senate > > > > yesterday. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Get great low international calling rates > > > from Net2Phone! Click Here! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/fBRVBB/kJXCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 22 13:47:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 22 Mar 2001 21:47:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 43733 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 21:46:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2001 21:46:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 21:46:13 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:06:05 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 15:57:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 22 Mar 01 15:57:14 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:57:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: minimal COLEGIALITY Priority: normal In-reply-to: <99dr7k+lruj@eGroups.com> References: <063f40613211631ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <065c60506221631ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" That's better. I did not think you could let stand anything that made it look like civil debate was possible in the us senate. What the hell is in the water down there. They are actually talking to each other and working things out on the floor. ??? On 22 Mar 01, at 21:35, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Are you sure it was a hug? Maybe Ted was trying to eat Orin. > Perhaps they had to give him a few shots of JD to get him > calmed down. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > It > was a bizarre sight. > > I thought you would have something more > cynical than that to say. > > > On 22 Mar 01, at 20:46, f_hemker@h... > wrote: > > > I'm sure it wasn't much of a hug. I can't believe Orin's > arms are > > long enough... > > > > -Fritz > > --- In > scatterbrains@y..., "Paul Kirkland" wrote: > > > Orin > Hatch and Ted Kennedy hugged on the floor of the Senate > > > > yesterday. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Get great low international calling > rates > > from Net2Phone! Click Here! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/fBRVBB/kJXCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of > Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Get great low international calling rates > from Net2Phone! Click Here! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/fBRVBB/kJXCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@w... Thu Mar 22 16:22:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 00:22:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 53228 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 00:22:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 00:22:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 00:22:42 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2N1IPB11810 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:18:25 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA14920; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:22:41 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Back to the proposal Message-Id: <15308871.1762@w...> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:22:41 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... Outstanding issues, and my replies to them: 1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration when his rule is to be altered? I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person I'd consult before suggesting a change. 2. PK: Should the decision process require every player to express consent to the change, rather than one player expressing objection? I think no. There's enough time to object to a suggestion, and the process should be as simple as possible. 3. PK: Should those players who voted for the proposal originally by required to consent to the change? Again, no for the same reasons. 4. FH & PK: Should there be a time limit after the rule has been passed in which corrections can be made? I again think no, since rules can be on the books for a long time before part of them become obsolete by a new proposal. For example, there's no mechanism to split a rule into two. If we wanted to define business days in a new rule, an obsolete section of 308 would still be active. Poll opens tomorrow, and I'd like to get as much resolved as possible before then. I'll be posting a revision either late tonight or first thing tomorrow. I'd appreciate feedback from those who had the original questions, and if there are more, let me know. --e From bernardo@c... Thu Mar 22 19:34:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 03:34:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 12616 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 03:34:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 03:34:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 03:34:09 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-05.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.190]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2N3Y6B19117 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:34:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003301c0b349$ff54b5a0$bea811d0@computer> To: References: <15308871.1762@w...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:33:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" > Outstanding issues, and my replies to them: > > 1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration when his rule is to be altered? > > I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person I'd consult before suggesting a change. > I like asking a question, and then not logging on for a while. Fun. Well, the original author should be required to give actual consent. That was my suggestion. It's his law, and if this is intended merely to make "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually changing the law, then it ought to be formally recognized that the original author should give his consent. In the case of an author that's no longer with us - like SA - then fuck him. But otherwise, the author should have a special status. Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside of the normal procedure. Which it still may be. Depending upon the listed limitations. From barturo@e... Fri Mar 23 05:47:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 13:47:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 44851 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 13:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 13:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:48:13 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA26465 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:47:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:40:21 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037377@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:40:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B39E.CD790900" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B39E.CD790900 Content-Type: text/plain If a player suggests a change to a rule the only way it can be accepted is if no player has an objection to it. If you wrote the rule and you don't like the suggested changes say so and it won't get changed. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal > Outstanding issues, and my replies to them: > > 1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration when his rule is to be altered? > > I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person I'd consult before suggesting a change. > I like asking a question, and then not logging on for a while. Fun. Well, the original author should be required to give actual consent. That was my suggestion. It's his law, and if this is intended merely to make "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually changing the law, then it ought to be formally recognized that the original author should give his consent. In the case of an author that's no longer with us - like SA - then fuck him. But otherwise, the author should have a special status. Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside of the normal procedure. Which it still may be. Depending upon the listed limitations. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click for Details Click for Details To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B39E.CD790900 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    If a player suggests a change to a rule the only way it can be accepted is if no player has an objection to it. If you wrote the rule and you don’t li= ke the suggested changes say so and it won’t get changed. =

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Thursday, March 22, 20= 01 10:33 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= Back to the proposal

     <= /o:p>


    > Outstanding issues, and my replies to them:
    >
    >  1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration = when his rule
    is to be altered?
    >
    > I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person
    I'd consult before suggesting a change.
    >
    I like asking a question, and then not logging on for a while.  Fu= n.

    Well, the original author should be required to give actual consent.&nb= sp; That
    was my suggestion.  It's his law, and if this is intended merely t= o make
    "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually changi= ng the law,
    then it ought to be formally recognized that the original author should give
    his consent.  In the case of an author that's no longer with us - = like SA -
    then fuck him.  But otherwise, the author should have a special status.

    Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside of the normal procedur= e.
    Which it still may be.  Depending upon the listed limitations.



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B39E.CD790900-- From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 23 06:31:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 14:31:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 43901 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 14:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 14:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:31:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-12.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.197]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2NEVCB68816 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:31:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0b3a5$ca502680$c5a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037377@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:30:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0B37B.E02A6D00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0B37B.E02A6D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But the original author should have a special status. It's fine for anybod= y else to say nothing, and for us to assume consent, but if somebody is bus= y or just on vacation, silence might not mean consent. For the rest of the= people, I don't think that this matters, and I'm fine with assuming their = consent, but with the original author, I really think that we ought to have= it legally set out that he has to actually say "this is cool with me." ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal If a player suggests a change to a rule the only way it can be accepted i= s if no player has an objection to it. If you wrote the rule and you don't = like the suggested changes say so and it won't get changed.=20 =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal =20=20=20 > Outstanding issues, and my replies to them: > > 1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration when his r= ule is to be altered? > > I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person I'd consult before suggesting a change. > I like asking a question, and then not logging on for a while. Fun. Well, the original author should be required to give actual consent. Tha= t was my suggestion. It's his law, and if this is intended merely to make "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually changing the law, then it ought to be formally recognized that the original author should g= ive his consent. In the case of an author that's no longer with us - like SA= - then fuck him. But otherwise, the author should have a special status. Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside of the normal procedure. Which it still may be. Depending upon the listed limitations. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0B37B.E02A6D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    But the original author should have a spec= ial=20 status.  It's fine for anybody else to say nothing, and for us to= =20 assume consent, but if somebody is busy or just on vacation, silence might = not=20 mean consent.  For the rest of the people, I don't think that this mat= ters,=20 and I'm fine with assuming their consent, but with the original author, I r= eally=20 think that we ought to have it legally set out that he has to actually say = "this=20 is cool with me."
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:40= =20 AM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Back = to the=20 proposal

    If a=20 player suggests a change to a rule the only way it can be accepted is if = no=20 player has an objection to it. If you wrote the rule and you don’t = like the=20 suggested changes say so and it won’t get changed.=20

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Pat= rick D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:= 33=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back = to the=20 proposal

     =


    >=20 Outstanding issues, and my replies to=20 them:
    >
    >  1. PB: Should the original= =20 author get special consideration when his rule
    is to be=20 altered?
    >
    > I'd say no, for the reason FH = gave,=20 though he would be the first person
    I'd consult before sugges= ting=20 a change.
    >
    I like asking a question, and then= not=20 logging on for a while.  Fun.

    Well, the original aut= hor=20 should be required to give actual consent.  That
    was my= =20 suggestion.  It's his law, and if this is intended merely to=20 make
    "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually=20 changing the law,
    then it ought to be formally recognized tha= t the=20 original author should give
    his consent.  In the case of= an=20 author that's no longer with us - like SA -
    then fuck him.&nb= sp;=20 But otherwise, the author should have a special=20 status.

    Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside = of=20 the normal procedure.
    Which it still may be.  Depending = upon=20 the listed limitations.


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0B37B.E02A6D00-- From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 06:38:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 14:38:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 73569 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:38:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA00995 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:38:43 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:41:01 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000901c0b3a5$ca502680$c5a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" That makes sense. I'm willing to go that far, if it will get you on board... I take it the other objections are settled with you two (PB & BA)? --e -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 9:30 AM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal But the original author should have a special status. It's fine for anybody else to say nothing, and for us to assume consent, but if somebody is busy or just on vacation, silence might not mean consent. For the rest of the people, I don't think that this matters, and I'm fine with assuming their consent, but with the original author, I really think that we ought to have it legally set out that he has to actually say "this is cool with me." ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 8:40 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal If a player suggests a change to a rule the only way it can be accepted is if no player has an objection to it. If you wrote the rule and you don’t like the suggested changes say so and it won’t get changed. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:33 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Back to the proposal > Outstanding issues, and my replies to them: > > 1. PB: Should the original author get special consideration when his rule is to be altered? > > I'd say no, for the reason FH gave, though he would be the first person I'd consult before suggesting a change. > I like asking a question, and then not logging on for a while. Fun. Well, the original author should be required to give actual consent. That was my suggestion. It's his law, and if this is intended merely to make "corrections" and not be a back-handed way of actually changing the law, then it ought to be formally recognized that the original author should give his consent. In the case of an author that's no longer with us - like SA - then fuck him. But otherwise, the author should have a special status. Otherwise it's a trapdoor to change laws outside of the normal procedure. Which it still may be. Depending upon the listed limitations. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 06:45:24 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 14:45:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 73222 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 14:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 14:45:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:45:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA01713 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:45:23 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:47:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the suggested changes to the list. If there are no objections to the suggestion after 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for review. I'm surprised no-one found the 2 spelling errors in the original. --e From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 23 09:26:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 17:26:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 97426 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:26:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 17:26:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:27:35 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-06.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.191]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2NHQTB86185 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:26:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000701c0b3be$47d56760$bfa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:25:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Since nobody else is, I'll bite... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > This strikes me as rather troublesome. I'm not sure what you mean by "obsolete" but there are two basic ways that one can take this: a) a law is contradicted/contravened by another law. b) a law has not been used lately. I'll take up the latter sense first, since I think that it's less likely that you meant that. Here it seems bad to drop a law since it might be useful in a future situation that we haven't foreseen. If you mean "a", then we already have provisions in place for dealing with the contradiction among laws. Current practice and current laws tell us that either the new law replaces the old (as amendment), or they somehow modify each other, or the earliest one takes precedence. Determining what holds in what case requires an argument about the laws - what they mean, and what we think is the "best" course. I do think that we need to reform this process, but regardless I think that this kind of consideration should only be made through a proposal. It's a real reform, not just a "fix". > > I'm surprised no-one found the 2 spelling errors in the original. Or someone did, but didn't bother to say anything. From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 10:23:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 18:23:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 40299 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 18:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 18:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:23:16 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA25620 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:23:16 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:25:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000701c0b3be$47d56760$bfa811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 12:26 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > Since nobody else is, I'll bite... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > This strikes me as rather troublesome. I'm not sure what you mean by > "obsolete" but there are two basic ways that one can take this: > a) a law is > contradicted/contravened by another law. b) a law has not been > used lately. > I'll take up the latter sense first, since I think that it's less likely > that you meant that. Here it seems bad to drop a law since it might be > useful in a future situation that we haven't foreseen. True, and I meant "a" > > If you mean "a", then we already have provisions in place for dealing with > the contradiction among laws. Current practice and current laws tell us > that either the new law replaces the old (as amendment), or they somehow > modify each other, or the earliest one takes precedence. Determining what > holds in what case requires an argument about the laws - what > they mean, and > what we think is the "best" course. I do think that we need to > reform this > process, but regardless I think that this kind of consideration > should only > be made through a proposal. It's a real reform, not just a "fix". I see what you mean. What I had in mind was 201 & 208, which are different for email games. They each have what I would consider "obsolete sections." -BUT- What if a new Rule renders a _section_ of an existing Rule totally meaningless? This was part of my argument on 314. By adding a great big EXCEPT, language like "Every player..." is renedered meaningless. How can I word it so that it works the way I want it to, but doesn't allow the things we want it not to? Am I just killing too many birds with this one stone? --e PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > > > I'm surprised no-one found the 2 spelling errors in the original. > > Or someone did, but didn't bother to say anything. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 23 11:10:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 64101 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:11:38 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2NJAWB96532 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:10:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0b3cc$d074f500$caa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:09:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > I really do love that beer. From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 11:12:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:12:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 84952 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:12:21 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA00928 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:12:19 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:14:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <000901c0b3cc$d074f500$caa811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > I really do love that beer. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 23 11:17:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:17:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 84480 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:17:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2NJHkB97226 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:17:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01c0b3cd$d2eba4e0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:16:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" That would be a fine idea! I can also bring some Patrick's Irish Ale, if you'd like. What time is painting tomorrow? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:14 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > > > I really do love that beer. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 11:26:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 92852 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA02590 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:26:03 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:28:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001f01c0b3cd$d2eba4e0$caa811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Painting, demolition, and cleaning from 10AM to whenever. Myla & I found kick-ass sushi right down the street, and we got a phone, but I don't have the number memorized yet... I'll make the pitstop to Andy's tonight, and Patrick's Irish would be muy bueno!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > That would be a fine idea! > > I can also bring some Patrick's Irish Ale, if you'd like. > > What time is painting tomorrow? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:14 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > > Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > > > > > I really do love that beer. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 23 11:37:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:37:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22900 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:37:51 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03974 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:37:46 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:31:06 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03737C@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:31:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3CF.CD9AF2A0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3CF.CD9AF2A0 Content-Type: text/plain I found 4 ESB left over from my first batch. I'll include them. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:28 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Painting, demolition, and cleaning from 10AM to whenever. Myla & I found kick-ass sushi right down the street, and we got a phone, but I don't have the number memorized yet... I'll make the pitstop to Andy's tonight, and Patrick's Irish would be muy bueno!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > That would be a fine idea! > > I can also bring some Patrick's Irish Ale, if you'd like. > > What time is painting tomorrow? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:14 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > > Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > > > > > I really do love that beer. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor E*TRADE. It's your money. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3CF.CD9AF2A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3CF.CD9AF2A0-- From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 11:48:45 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:48:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 52740 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:48:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:48:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:48:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA05304 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:48:42 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:50:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0067_01C0B3A8.ACB5FF20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03737C@BATMAN> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C0B3A8.ACB5FF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wow- How long ago was that? -----Original Message----- From: Arturo, Bob [mailto:barturo@e...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:31 PM To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) I found 4 ESB left over from my first batch. I’ll include them. -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:28 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) Painting, demolition, and cleaning from 10AM to whenever. Myla & I found kick-ass sushi right down the street, and we got a phone, but I don't have the number memorized yet... I'll make the pitstop to Andy's tonight, and Patrick's Irish would be muy bueno!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > That would be a fine idea! > > I can also bring some Patrick's Irish Ale, if you'd like. > > What time is painting tomorrow? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:14 PM > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1) > > > > Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB? > > > > > > > I really do love that beer. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C0B3A8.ACB5FF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Wow-=20 How long ago was that?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Arturo, Bob=20 [mailto:barturo@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23,= 2001=20 2:31 PM
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: = RE:=20 [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1)

    I=20 found 4 ESB left over from my first batch. I’ll include=20 them.

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:28= =20 PM
    To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT: F= F ESB (=20 was: RE: Proposal 317r1)

     =

    Paint= ing,=20 demolition, and cleaning from 10AM to whenever.  Myla & I=20 found
    kick-ass=20 sushi right down the street, and we got a phone, but I don't=20 have
    the number memorized yet...  I'll make the pitstop = to=20 Andy's tonight, and
    Patrick's Irish would be muy=20 bueno!!

    > -----Original Message-----
    > = From:=20 Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > Sent:= =20 Friday, March 23, 2001 2:17 PM
    > To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrain= s]=20 OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal=20 317r1)
    >
    >
    > That would be a= fine=20 idea!
    >
    > I can also bring some Patrick's I= rish=20 Ale, if you'd like.
    >
    > What time is painti= ng=20 tomorrow?
    >
    > ----- Original Message=20 -----
    > From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 <eventi@n...>
    > To:=20 <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Friday, Marc= h 23,=20 2001 2:14 PM
    > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: = RE:=20 Proposal 317r1)
    >
    >
    > > D= o you=20 think I could get a growler for tomorrow?
    >=20 >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    &g= t;=20 > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, M= arch=20 23, 2001 2:10 PM
    > > > To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1
    > > >
    >= ;=20 > >
    > > >
    > > > ----- Ori= ginal=20 Message -----
    > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia=20 <eventi@n...>
    > > > > PS: How was the F= lying=20 Fish ESB?
    > > > >
    > > > I re= ally=20 do love that beer.
    > > >
    > >=20 >
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe= from=20 this group, send an email to:
    > > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >=20 >
    > > >
    > > >
    &g= t;=20 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >=20 > >
    > > >
    > >
    &g= t;=20 >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this= =20 group, send an email to:
    > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    &= gt;=20 >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Group= s is=20 subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >=20 >
    >=20 >
    >
    >
    >
    > = To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    >=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >
    >

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0067_01C0B3A8.ACB5FF20-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 11:51:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 19:51:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 63354 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 19:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:51:19 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:11:28 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:02:38 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:02:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:02:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000701c0b3be$47d56760$bfa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004512811201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I am still reading, but I am bothered by this as well On 23 Mar 01, at 12:25, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Since nobody else is, I'll bite... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > This strikes me as rather troublesome. I'm not sure what you mean by > "obsolete" but there are two basic ways that one can take this: a) a > law is contradicted/contravened by another law. b) a law has not been > used lately. I'll take up the latter sense first, since I think that > it's less likely that you meant that. Here it seems bad to drop a law > since it might be useful in a future situation that we haven't > foreseen. > > If you mean "a", then we already have provisions in place for dealing > with the contradiction among laws. Current practice and current laws > tell us that either the new law replaces the old (as amendment), or > they somehow modify each other, or the earliest one takes precedence. > Determining what holds in what case requires an argument about the > laws - what they mean, and what we think is the "best" course. I do > think that we need to reform this process, but regardless I think that > this kind of consideration should only be made through a proposal. > It's a real reform, not just a "fix". > > > > > I'm surprised no-one found the 2 spelling errors in the original. > > Or someone did, but didn't bother to say anything. > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 12:07:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:07:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 205 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:07:12 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:27:20 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:18:28 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:18:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:18:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <000701c0b3be$47d56760$bfa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <001d52027201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it would stand and the problem would remain. PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit backdoor substantive changes. PPS FF ESB rocks From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 12:14:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:13:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 17155 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:13:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:13:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:13:56 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08004 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:13:55 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:16:14 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001d52027201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" What language would you suggest to rule out substantive changes? I would think that EVERYONE would object to such a change. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > rule limit. > It could equally be argued that it should simply be immediately > eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. > As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it would > stand and the problem would remain. > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. I > would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit > backdoor substantive changes. > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 12:24:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:24:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 41652 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:24:41 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA09178 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:24:35 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:26:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001d52027201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > rule limit. > It could equally be argued that it should simply be immediately > eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. > As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it would > stand and the problem would remain. > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. I > would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit > backdoor substantive changes. > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 12:27:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:27:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 53832 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:27:02 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:47:10 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:38:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:37:54 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:37:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d52027201731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0031c1047201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I meant to suggest that unanimity might be the problem considering the 315 example. Why not a vote if there is an objection. Let's take 314 as the example. Let's say it did not amend 207 when proposed. After it passes, you propose fixing to amend 207. Fritz objects. The rule is killed. Fritz then proposes eliminating from the books. Patrick objects. The rule stands, but has no bearing. We then have a rule on the books that is meaningless and a rule that does not express the intent of the author or the majority. (exactly what your proposal wants to avoid) If it is simply a majority vote, I would be less worried about the scope of the changes. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 12:31:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:31:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 83014 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:31:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:31:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:31:02 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:51:09 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:42:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 14:42:17 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:42:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d52027201731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004670951201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers might not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing way. On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply be > > immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. As > > constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. > > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit > > backdoor substantive changes. > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 12:43:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:43:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 90436 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:44:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA11144 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:43:38 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:45:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <0031c1047201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > I meant to suggest that unanimity might be the problem > considering the 315 example. > Why not a vote if there is an objection. I'd rather err on the other side... If it's not a unanimous decision, drop it. > > Let's take 314 as the example. Let's say it did not amend 207 > when proposed. > After it passes, you propose fixing to amend 207. > Fritz objects. > The rule is killed. > > Fritz then proposes eliminating from the books. > Patrick objects. > The rule stands, but has no bearing. I think maybe you misunderstand the mechanics behind amendment. It 314 amends 207, 207 _is_ stricken from the rules (note the absense of 105,202,& 207), unless I really don't understand your example. > > We then have a rule on the books that is meaningless and a rule > that does not express the intent of the author or the majority. > (exactly what your proposal wants to avoid) > > If it is simply a majority vote, I would be less worried about the > scope of the changes. I don't see how a majority vote would make this situation any better. --e > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 12:45:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:45:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 94589 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:45:24 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA11363 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:45:22 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:47:40 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <004670951201731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > as awards. > (of course the transfer of these into real beers might not work out > quite evenly) > Fritz has 1, > I lost mine. > But I suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more > refreshing way. > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply be > > > immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. As > > > constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. > > > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit > > > backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 23 12:50:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:50:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9610 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:50:35 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11896 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:50:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:43:47 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03737E@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:43:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3D9.F5078600" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3D9.F5078600 Content-Type: text/plain How's about a BEER-KEEPER -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > as awards. > (of course the transfer of these into real beers might not work out > quite evenly) > Fritz has 1, > I lost mine. > But I suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more > refreshing way. > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply be > > > immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. As > > > constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. > > > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permit > > > backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3D9.F5078600-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 12:57:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 20:57:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 51259 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 20:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:57:20 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:17:26 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:08:35 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:08:26 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:08:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0031c1047201731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <002bd2617211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 23 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > I meant to suggest that unanimity might be the problem > > considering the 315 example. > > Why not a vote if there is an objection. > > I'd rather err on the other side... If it's not a unanimous decision, > drop it. > > > > > Let's take 314 as the example. Let's say it did not amend 207 > > when proposed. > > After it passes, you propose fixing to amend 207. > > Fritz objects. > > The rule is killed. > > > > Fritz then proposes eliminating from the books. > > Patrick objects. > > The rule stands, but has no bearing. > > I think maybe you misunderstand the mechanics behind amendment. It > 314 amends 207, 207 _is_ stricken from the rules (note the absense of > 105,202,& 207), unless I really don't understand your example. I think it is the latter. Imagine IF it did not amend 207 (which it did not in earlier drafts) Then we proposed fixing the rules to eliminate one or the other. An objection to eliminating each would leave both on the books BTW striking amended laws from the books is your efficiency thing. Normal procedure for laws is ot leave them there even when they do nothing. See U.S. Constitution. Prohibition is still on the books. > > > > > We then have a rule on the books that is meaningless and a rule that > > does not express the intent of the author or the majority. (exactly > > what your proposal wants to avoid) > > > > If it is simply a majority vote, I would be less worried about the > > scope of the changes. > > I don't see how a majority vote would make this situation any better. > Because no single player would have veto power. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 13:02:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:02:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 44507 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:02:17 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:22:27 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:13:36 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:13:26 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:13:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03737E@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <001dd2722211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen. I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday afternoons): BA 1 FH 1 PK ? EV 1 Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule. On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: > How's about a BEER-KEEPER > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. > We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > > as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers might > > not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I suppose > > the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing way. > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the > > > > 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply > > > > be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. > > > > As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block > > > > both. > > > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider > > > > it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does > > > > not permit backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603219/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603219/rand=164591167> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 13:13:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:13:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 66688 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:13:23 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA14522 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:13:21 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:15:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <001dd2722211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I would have passed it, even with my irrational ojections... But you should record who the beers are coming from, too. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:13 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen. > > I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that > > At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday > afternoons): > > BA 1 > FH 1 > PK ? > EV 1 > > Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule. > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > How's about a BEER-KEEPER > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. > > We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > > > as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers might > > > not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I suppose > > > the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing way. > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the > > > > > 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply > > > > > be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. > > > > > As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block > > > > > both. > > > > > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider > > > > > it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does > > > > > not permit backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > 000570 > > 88:N/A=603219/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > > > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603219/rand=164591167> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 13:15:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:15:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 75492 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:15:03 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA14776 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:15:02 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:17:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <002bd2617211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:08 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:45, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > I meant to suggest that unanimity might be the problem > > > considering the 315 example. > > > Why not a vote if there is an objection. > > > > I'd rather err on the other side... If it's not a unanimous decision, > > drop it. > > > > > > > > Let's take 314 as the example. Let's say it did not amend 207 > > > when proposed. > > > After it passes, you propose fixing to amend 207. > > > Fritz objects. > > > The rule is killed. > > > > > > Fritz then proposes eliminating from the books. > > > Patrick objects. > > > The rule stands, but has no bearing. > > > > I think maybe you misunderstand the mechanics behind amendment. It > > 314 amends 207, 207 _is_ stricken from the rules (note the absense of > > 105,202,& 207), unless I really don't understand your example. > > I think it is the latter. Imagine IF it did not amend 207 (which it did > not in earlier drafts) > Then we proposed fixing the rules to eliminate one or the other. > An objection to eliminating each would leave both on the books What I didn't get was that Fritz wants to eliminate 314... Now I get it, and if this sort of thing comes up, it should certainly be handled by a proposal. > > BTW striking amended laws from the books is your efficiency > thing. Normal procedure for laws is ot leave them there even when > they do nothing. See U.S. Constitution. Prohibition is still on the > books. > > > > > > > > We then have a rule on the books that is meaningless and a rule that > > > does not express the intent of the author or the majority. (exactly > > > what your proposal wants to avoid) > > > > > > If it is simply a majority vote, I would be less worried about the > > > scope of the changes. > > > > I don't see how a majority vote would make this situation any better. > > > Because no single player would have veto power. I think that for the purposes of the changes allowed by this proposal, one player _should_ have veto power. --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Fri Mar 23 13:20:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:20:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 81056 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:20:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:20:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:21:40 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA15408 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:13:47 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037380@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:13:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3DE.256B6240" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3DE.256B6240 Content-Type: text/plain PK I don't want you to feel left out even if you went to the beer festival and did not get anything for PB. I'll buy a beer for PK. Just to continue with the Homer Simpson quotes. I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer. --Homer Simpson -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:13 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen. I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday afternoons): BA 1 FH 1 PK ? EV 1 Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule. On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: > How's about a BEER-KEEPER > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. > We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > > as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers might > > not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I suppose > > the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing way. > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the > > > > 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply > > > > be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. > > > > As constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block > > > > both. > > > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider > > > > it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does > > > > not permit backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egroupmail/S=17 > 000570 > 88:N/A=603219/* http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870 > > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egro > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603219/rand=164591167> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3DE.256B6240 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    PK I= don’t want you to feel left out even if you went to the beer festival and did not= get anything for PB. I’ll buy a beer for PK.

     

    Just= to continue with the Homer Simpson quotes.

     

    <= span style=3D'font-size:14.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>I would kil= l everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer.
    --Homer Simpson

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001= 4:13 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= OT small p proposal

     <= /o:p>

    A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen.

    I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that

    At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday
    afternoons):

    BA 1
    FH 1
    PK ?
    EV 1

    Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule.






    On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote:

    > How's about a BEER-KEEPER
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal
    >
    > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, thoug= h.
    > We need a Beer Bookkeeper...
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM
    > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal
    > >
    > >
    > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and trac= k them
    > > as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers m= ight
    > > not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I suppose
    > > the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing way.=
    > >
    > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote:
    > >
    > > > <joke>
    > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official
    > > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" </joke>=
    > > >
    > > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]=
    > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM
    > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive
    > > > > questions.
    > > > >
    > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make = it an amendment to the
    > > > > 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply
    > > > > be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it ha= s no effect.
    > > > > As constructed, this proposal would allow one playe= r to block
    > > > > both.
    > > > >
    > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it
    > > > > would stand and the problem would remain.
    > > > >
    > > > > PS  I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider
    > > > > it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does
    > > > > not permit backdoor substantive changes.
    > > > >
    > > > > PPS  FF ESB rocks
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > > http:= //docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > > <h= ttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise yo= u made at
    > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
    > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find y= our
    > > > friends! http://us= .click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM>
    > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > > ---_ ->
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > http://doc= s.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > > <http:/= /docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yah= oo.com/info/terms/
    > <http://docs.yaho= o.com/info/terms/>
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    >
    >
    > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=3Degroupm= ail/S=3D17
    > 000570
    > 88:N/A=3D603219/*http://ww= w.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=3D870>
    > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff!
    >
    >
    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D= =3Degro
    > upmail /S=3D1700057088:N/A=3D603219/rand=3D164591167>
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
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    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
    > <http://docs.yaho= o.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this<= /tt>
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution = or
    > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are no= t
    > the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > webmaster@e....
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    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B3DE.256B6240-- From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 13:21:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:21:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 11579 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:21:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:21:39 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:41:47 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:32:57 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:32:48 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:32:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001dd2722211731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004ca4741211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" ok, at the end of Fridays I will do that if I keep up. irrationality works in a lot of directions. Who could oppose free beer. Damn again, along time ago I thought of beers as an outside of points means of exchange. If I had not started by trying to make HP part of ordinary points... oh well BTW--you can't buy and sell beers online, but you can buy and sell beer supplies... ... A question I forgot: Have any of you had Bell's Two Hearted Ale. I am not sure if it is available outside the midwest, but it is a fine brew. On 23 Mar 01, at 16:15, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I would have passed it, even with my irrational ojections... But you > should record who the beers are coming from, too. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:13 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen. > > > > I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that > > > > At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday > > afternoons): > > > > BA 1 > > FH 1 > > PK ? > > EV 1 > > > > Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > How's about a BEER-KEEPER > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, > > > though. We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track > > > > them as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers > > > > might not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I > > > > suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing > > > > way. > > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The > > > > > Official Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to > > > > > > the 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should > > > > > > simply be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has > > > > > > no effect. As constructed, this proposal would allow one > > > > > > player to block both. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating > > > > > > it would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to > > > > > > consider it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version > > > > > > that does not permit backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 > > > > > million registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find > > > > > your friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > S=17 000570 > > > 88:N/A=603219/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id= > > > 870> Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > > > > > > > > > egro upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603219/rand=164591167> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are > > > not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 13:25:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:25:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 212 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:25:39 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:45:45 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:36:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:36:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:36:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037380@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <003174545211731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Did you go back and look at messages with BEER in the subject heading? I will put my evaluations from the festival in an off topic message Monday. On 23 Mar 01, at 16:13, Arturo, Bob wrote: > PK I don't want you to feel left out even if you went to the beer > festival and did not get anything for PB. I'll buy a beer for PK. > > Just to continue with the Homer Simpson quotes. > > I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer. > --Homer Simpson > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:13 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > A fine suggestion indeed gentlemen. > > I'll "buy" each of you a beer for that > > At this point the tally (to be unofficially updated on Friday > afternoons): > > BA 1 > FH 1 > PK ? > EV 1 > > Damn I should have called my proposal the FREE BEER rule. > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:43, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > How's about a BEER-KEEPER > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. > > We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > > > > > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track > > > them as awards. (of course the transfer of these into real beers > > > might not work out quite evenly) Fritz has 1, I lost mine. But I > > > suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more refreshing > > > way. > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The > > > > Official Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to > > > > > the 25 rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should > > > > > simply be immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no > > > > > effect. As constructed, this proposal would allow one player > > > > > to block both. > > > > > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating > > > > > it would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to > > > > > consider it. I would like to see a fairly restricted version > > > > > that does not permit backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > < > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > < > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egroupmail/S=1 > > 7 > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603219/* > http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870 > > > Click > Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egro > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603219/rand=164591167> > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! > Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE > * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603220/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The Place to Win Stuff! > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603220/rand=501435111> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From bernardo@c... Fri Mar 23 13:25:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:25:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 93641 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:25:47 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-16.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.201]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2NLPgB10617 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:25:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001d01c0b3df$b1a78a80$c9a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03737E@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:24:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B3B5.C78AF8C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B3B5.C78AF8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bad idea, beer-DRINKERS are much more fun. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal How's about a BEER-KEEPER =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal =20=20=20 I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. We need a Beer Bookkeeper... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal > > > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track them > as awards. > (of course the transfer of these into real beers might not work out > quite evenly) > Fritz has 1, > I lost mine. > But I suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more > refreshing way. > > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "The Official > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1 > > > > > > > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions. > > > > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25 > > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should simply be > > > immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no effect. As > > > constructed, this proposal would allow one player to block both. > > > > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to eliminating it > > > would stand and the problem would remain. > > > > > > PS I think we need some version of this and I plan to consider it. > > > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not permi= t > > > backdoor substantive changes. > > > > > > PPS FF ESB rocks > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------= _ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/term= s/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B3B5.C78AF8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Bad idea, beer-DRINKERS are much more=20 fun.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob

    How&= #8217;s about a BEER-KEEPER

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001= 3:48 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= OT small p proposal

     <= /o:p>

    I'm pretty sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though.  We
    need a Beer Bookkeeper...

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:42 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p proposal
    >
    >
    > I would like to propose that we give out these beers and track the= m
    > as awards.
    > (of course the transfer of these into real beers might not work ou= t
    > quite evenly)
    > Fritz has 1,
    > I lost mine.
    > But I suppose the rest of you can give beers in a much more > refreshing way.
    >
    > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote:
    >
    > > <joke>
    > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish ESB be declared "Th= e Official
    > > Beer of the Scatterbrains Nomic" </joke>
    > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]=
    > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:18 PM
    > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > But these fixes to contradictions could open substantive questions.
    > > >
    > > > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the 25
    > > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that it should si= mply be
    > > > immediately eliminated as obsolete because it has no eff= ect. As
    > > > constructed, this proposal would allow one player to blo= ck both.
    > > >
    > > > If I objected to it amending and you objected to elimina= ting it
    > > > would stand and the problem would remain.
    > > >
    > > > PS  I think we need some version of this and I plan= to consider it.
    > > > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that doe= s not permit
    > > > backdoor substantive changes.
    > > >
    > > > PPS  FF ESB rocks
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > > http://doc= s.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you mad= e at
    > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 milli= on
    > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends!
    > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_=
    > > ->
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yah= oo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= /
    >
    >



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:43= =20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT sm= all p=20 proposal

    How’s=20 about a BEER-KEEPER

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Eug= ene=20 Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:48= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT sm= all p=20 proposal

     =

    I'm p= retty=20 sure I owe you one from WAY back... I need proof, though. =20 We
    need=20 a Beer Bookkeeper...

    > -----Original=20 Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 23, = 2001=20 3:42 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    &g= t;=20 Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT small p=20 proposal
    >
    >
    > I would like = to=20 propose that we give out these beers and track them
    > as=20 awards.
    > (of course the transfer of these into real beers= =20 might not work out
    > quite evenly)
    > Fritz = has=20 1,
    > I lost mine.
    > But I suppose the rest = of=20 you can give beers in a much more
    > refreshing=20 way.
    >
    > On 23 Mar 01, at 15:26, Eugene=20 Ventimiglia wrote:
    >
    > >=20 <joke>
    > > I'd like to propose that Flying Fish E= SB be=20 declared "The Official
    > > Beer of the Scatterbrains No= mic"=20 </joke>
    > >
    > > > -----Origi= nal=20 Message-----
    > > > From: Paul Kirkland=20 [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > > > Sent: Friday, = March=20 23, 2001 3:18 PM
    > > > To:=20 scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1
    > > >
    >= ;=20 > >
    > > > But these fixes to contradictions co= uld=20 open substantive questions.
    > > >
    > &= gt;=20 > Does this permitting "fixing" it to make it an amendment to the=20 25
    > > > rule limit. It could equally be argued that= it=20 should simply be
    > > > immediately eliminated as obs= olete=20 because it has no effect. As
    > > > constructed, this= =20 proposal would allow one player to block both.
    > >=20 >
    > > > If I objected to it amending and you obje= cted=20 to eliminating it
    > > > would stand and the problem = would=20 remain.
    > > >
    > > > PS  I = think=20 we need some version of this and I plan to consider it.
    > = >=20 > I would like to see a fairly restricted version that does not=20 permit
    > > > backdoor substantive=20 changes.
    > > >
    > > > PPS  = FF=20 ESB rocks
    > > >
    > >=20 >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an e= mail=20 to:
    > > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >=20 >
    > > >
    > > >
    &g= t;=20 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > &= gt;=20 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >=20 > >
    > > >
    > >
    &g= t;=20 >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups=20 Sponsor
    > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on t= he=20 promise you made at
    > > graduation to keep in touch.=20 Classmates.com has over 14 million
    > > registered high= =20 school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends!
    > >= ; http://= us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    >=20 >=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------_
    >=20 > ->
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe fro= m=20 this group, send an email to:
    > >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    &= gt;=20 >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Group= s is=20 subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >=20 >
    >=20 >
    >
    >
    >
    ><= /TT>
    >=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    >=20 scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    >=20 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/ter= ms/
    >
    >

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

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    ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C0B3B5.C78AF8C0-- From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 13:31:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:31:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 10922 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:31:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:31:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:31:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA16565 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:31:53 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 317r2 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:34:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" If there are no objections, this will go final before I go home, and we can get to voting... Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for review. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 13:46:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 21:46:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 36607 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 21:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:46:59 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:06:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:57:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 15:56:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:56:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r2 Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <002ca0406221731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" "understood intent" is too ambiguous. If it is intent you mean the author? If it is understanding you mean everyone. I would be comfortable with a least a subject for understood (all players", the groups' Similarly, "obsolete" could be changed to useless meaningless, purposeless, inactive, overruled, or some other word to avoid possible future misconstrual. What exactly does "re-opened for review" constitute. I assume you imagine that the suggestion may be amended. Does it ever simply stop being under review. In other words, I suggest a wording change (say one of the above after it is passed) You object to "meaningless" I suggest "purposeless", another five days or objection You object I suggest "inactive" .... Is this how the procedure would work, and would it continue until I stop suggesting changes or you stop objecting. I seriously just want to be clear. pk On 23 Mar 01, at 16:34, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > If there are no objections, this will go final before I go home, and > we can get to voting... > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > reasons: > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > rule. > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule > Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after > 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) > consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed > according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules > are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being > changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > suggestion is re-opened for review. > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 14:27:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:26:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 34627 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:26:50 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA22369 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:26:49 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r2 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:29:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <002ca0406221731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Forgive the geekiness of my reply... I'm knee deep in 3 programming languages, so I'll be speaking in 'sed' > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 4:57 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r2 > > > "understood intent" is too ambiguous. If it is intent you mean the > author? If it is understanding you mean everyone. I would be > comfortable with a least a subject for understood (all players", the > groups' s/intent/meaning/ Oh nevermind... I'll substitute the word "meaning". > Similarly, > "obsolete" could be changed to useless meaningless, purposeless, > inactive, overruled, or some other word to avoid possible future > misconstrual. Still not sold on that... If someone uses a meaning of obsolete that you object to, object to the change. > > What exactly does "re-opened for review" constitute. I assume you > imagine that the suggestion may be amended. Does it ever simply > stop being under review. In other words, > I suggest a wording change (say one of the above after it is passed) > You object to "meaningless" Sorry to interrupt, but it stops right there. After an objection, there's no more debate, and the suggestion cannot be made again. The re-open for review was for 2 things. First, if Pat goes on vacation, then comes back to find his favorite Rule changed, he can object, and be either sold on the idea, or reject it. Second, if the changes are made and, someone says "Oh Shit, we just screwed up 5 other Rules." It can be quickly changed back. I want to stress this shouldn't be a process to be taken lightly, and I want it to fail if it's poorly conceived. > I suggest "purposeless", another five days or objection > You object > I suggest "inactive" .... > Is this how the procedure would work, and would it continue until I > stop suggesting changes or you stop objecting. Or, using the same example, I don't reply at all... Then there's no author's consent, and it sits in limbo. I'm really starting to like Pat's Idea. BEER!!! > > I seriously just want to be clear. > > pk > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:34, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > If there are no objections, this will go final before I go home, and > > we can get to voting... > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > > rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > > of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule > > Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after > > 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) > > consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed > > according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules > > are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being > > changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > > suggestion is re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 14:49:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:49:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 15369 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:49:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 23:50:08 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24208 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:49:03 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Proposal 317 FINAL FORM Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:51:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following reasons: 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the rule. 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for review. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 14:49:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:49:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 94375 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:49:55 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:10:03 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:01:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:00:47 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:00:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r2 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <002ca0406221731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <003da0310231731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 23 Mar 01, at 17:29, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Or, using the same example, I don't reply at all... Then there's no > author's consent, and it sits in limbo. Forever Teh author can sudenly decie he likes it two months later when he sees it as useful is it every simply off the table? I'm really starting to like > Pat's Idea. BEER!!! sounds like a good idea From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Fri Mar 23 14:51:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 97353 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:51:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.230] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2001 22:51:18 -0000 Date: 23 Mar 2001 22:51:14 -0000 Message-ID: <985387874.6306.93399.s7@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Should Proposal 317 become a Rule? o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 14:54:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:54:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 98194 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:54:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 23:55:55 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:15:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:06:11 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:05:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:05:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004d60015231731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" One final but significant question. Do you understand there to be a difference between a formal objection and a challenging question about a "suggestion." There is no language for a fomal objection written into the proposal. Why did you add "the suggestion cannot be made again" ? What if the objector is persuaded? On 23 Mar 01, at 17:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > reasons: > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > rule. > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule > Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after > 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) > consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed > according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules > are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being > changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > suggestion is re-opened for review. > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 14:57:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:57:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 33995 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 23:58:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24833 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:57:12 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r2 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:59:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <003da0310231731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > Or, using the same example, I don't reply at all... Then there's no > > author's consent, and it sits in limbo. > > Forever > Teh author can sudenly decie he likes it two months later when he > sees it as useful > > is it every simply off the table? OK admit it, you started the Beer already... In that case, someone other than the author can reject it. Yes. If there's an objection by anyone BEFORE the change takes place, or while it's in review. It's only re-tabled if the objection arises during the first 5 days after the change actually happens. > > I'm really starting to like > > Pat's Idea. BEER!!! > > sounds like a good idea > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 14:58:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 22:58:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 1380 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 22:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 22:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 22:58:53 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA24913 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:58:53 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-reply-to: <004d60015231731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" There's no official language, but I think we're smart enough to tell the difference. That can be the first "Official Rule Change Suggestion." --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:06 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM > > > One final but significant question. > > Do you understand there to be a difference between a formal > objection and a challenging question about a "suggestion." There > is no language for a fomal objection written into the proposal. > Why did you add "the suggestion cannot be made again" ? > What if the objector is persuaded? > > On 23 Mar 01, at 17:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > reasons: > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of the > > rule. > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed report > > of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject "Official Rule > > Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to the suggestion after > > 5 business days and the original author (if he is still a player) > > consents, or if every player voices consent, the rule(s) are changed > > according to the written suggestion. If any player objects, the rules > > are not changed, and the suggestion cannot be made again. Furthermore, > > if any player objects within 5 business days of the rules being > > changed, the rules are reverted back to their previous form, and the > > suggestion is re-opened for review. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 15:04:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 23:04:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 19549 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 23:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 23:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 23:04:15 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:24:24 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:15:35 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 23 Mar 01 17:15:12 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:15:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <004d60015231731ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <004392424231731ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" But that is one of my concerns. Does this fixability encourage slop rule-writing? Give me the best reason for this prop On 23 Mar 01, at 18:01, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > There's no official language, but I think we're smart enough to tell > the difference. That can be the first "Official Rule Change > Suggestion." > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:06 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM > > > > > > One final but significant question. > > > > Do you understand there to be a difference between a formal > > objection and a challenging question about a "suggestion." There is > > no language for a fomal objection written into the proposal. Why did > > you add "the suggestion cannot be made again" ? What if the objector > > is persuaded? > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 17:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > > reasons: > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of > > > the rule. > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > > report of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject > > > "Official Rule Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to > > > the suggestion after 5 business days and the original author (if > > > he is still a player) consents, or if every player voices consent, > > > the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If > > > any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion > > > cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 > > > business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted > > > back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for > > > review. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 23 15:56:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 23 Mar 2001 23:56:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 59934 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 23:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2001 23:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 23:56:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.34] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2001 23:56:27 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:56:25 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Bartender's report Message-ID: <99gnr9+rnen@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 165 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... Beer report A curious pattern (none that can be redeemed this weekend) BA 1 (from PK) PB (drank his) FH 1 (from EV) PK 1 (from BA) EV 1 (from PK) From eventi@w... Fri Mar 23 16:16:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@w... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Mar 2001 00:16:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 67749 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 00:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2001 00:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ns1-3.wyndtell.com) (63.81.201.11) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 01:17:41 -0000 Received: from nova.wyndtell.com (nova.wyndtell.com [63.81.201.78]) by ns1-3.wyndtell.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2O1CHB05204 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:12:18 -0800 Received: (root@localhost) by nova.wyndtell.com (8.8.8/SCA-6.6) id TAA15966; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:16:35 -0500 (EST) To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report In-Reply-To: 999e X-Status: 6Y Message-Id: <15308871.1785@w...> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:16:35 -0800 X-eGroups-From: eventi@w... (Eugene Ventimiglia) From: eventi@w... I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading dangerous waters here... Revised report: BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) PB 2 (from EV) FH 1 (from EV) PK 1 (from BA) EV 1 (from PK) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From eventi@n... Fri Mar 23 21:46:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 24 Mar 2001 05:46:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 2923 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 05:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 24 Mar 2001 05:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 06:47:12 -0000 Received: from win (win.venti.nyic.com [64.29.109.18]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA14721 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:46:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010201c0b425$e489ce40$126d1d40@v...> To: References: <004d60015231731ISWEBNT@d...> <004392424231731ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:47:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Kirkland" To: Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM > But that is one of my concerns. Does this fixability encourage slop > rule-writing? The language about not being proposed again is so that a person suggesting such a change has to _think_ before doing so, and make sure that the change will be universally accepted. The official Subject allows me to bring it up as topical discussion, and get feedback before phrasing the change. > > Give me the best reason for this prop Simple. Proposals shouldn't be wasted capitalizing and punctuating rules. And all the players do in fact decide on how the rules are to be applied every time we make a move. If we all agree to an interpretation of a Rule, but we all also agree that it's not worded so as to make that interpretation clear, the wording should be changed to reflect the meaning so future players will play by "our" rules. Now I'll go check the votes, and cross my fingers that my explanation didn't just lose a vote or two. I'm not feeling to eloquent right now. > > On 23 Mar 01, at 18:01, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > There's no official language, but I think we're smart enough to tell > > the difference. That can be the first "Official Rule Change > > Suggestion." > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 6:06 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317 FINAL FORM > > > > > > > > > One final but significant question. > > > > > > Do you understand there to be a difference between a formal > > > objection and a challenging question about a "suggestion." There is > > > no language for a fomal objection written into the proposal. Why did > > > you add "the suggestion cannot be made again" ? What if the objector > > > is persuaded? > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 17:51, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Any player may suggest a revision to the rules for the following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > 1. To change wording to conform better to the understood intent of > > > > the rule. > > > > > > > > 2. To correct the wording of a poorly written rule. > > > > > > > > 3. To fix typographical or grammatical errors in an active rule. > > > > > > > > 4. To correct an error in the form of rule change. > > > > > > > > 5. To eliminate obsolete or redundant sections of a rule. > > > > > > > > The suggestion may be made outside the normal proposal period, and > > > > must be agreed to unanimously. The player must post a detailed > > > > report of the suggested changes to the list, with the Subject > > > > "Official Rule Change Suggestion." If there are no objections to > > > > the suggestion after 5 business days and the original author (if > > > > he is still a player) consents, or if every player voices consent, > > > > the rule(s) are changed according to the written suggestion. If > > > > any player objects, the rules are not changed, and the suggestion > > > > cannot be made again. Furthermore, if any player objects within 5 > > > > business days of the rules being changed, the rules are reverted > > > > back to their previous form, and the suggestion is re-opened for > > > > review. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ---_ -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Mon Mar 26 07:32:22 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26262 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 15:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 15:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 15:32:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.109] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2001 15:32:20 -0000 Date: 26 Mar 2001 15:32:19 -0000 Message-ID: <985620739.510.49722.ed@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Should Proposal 317 become a Rule? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes , 4 votes, 80.00% - No, 1 votes, 20.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - Yes - bernardo@c... - eventi@c... - pkirklan@e... - barturo@e... - No - f_hemker@h... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 26 11:50:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 19:50:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 25338 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 19:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 19:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 19:50:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:10:25 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Mar 01 14:02:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Mar 01 14:01:46 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:01:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Priority: normal References: 999e In-reply-to: <15308871.1785@w...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <005902510201a31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" You didn't give them real beers. On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > dangerous waters here... > > Revised report: > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > PB 2 (from EV) > FH 1 (from EV) > PK 1 (from BA) > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 26 11:52:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 19:52:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 13725 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 19:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 19:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 19:52:41 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA04699 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:52:39 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:54:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <005902510201a31ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Why's that? Actually they've not only been painting my house, but bringing the beer too... --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:02 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > You didn't give them real beers. > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > > > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to > > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > > dangerous waters here... > > > > Revised report: > > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > > PB 2 (from EV) > > FH 1 (from EV) > > PK 1 (from BA) > > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Mon Mar 26 14:01:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 22:01:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 81864 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 22:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 22:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 23:03:01 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA19143 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:01:56 -0500 (EST) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Thanks for the votes Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:04:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" And the beer... It's been a slow day. I've been thinking of setting up a dummy website for BuyMeABeer.com, just to get the mechanics in place. It'll replace the Weekly Bartender's report... More later. --e From pkirklan@e... Mon Mar 26 14:34:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 26 Mar 2001 22:34:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 63699 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 22:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2001 22:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 23:36:00 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:54:34 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 26 Mar 01 16:46:24 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 26 Mar 01 16:46:11 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:46:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: not a slow day Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0064f3454221a31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" cool I'll buy you a beer for that (I promised myself I would not reply if this was about beer, but anyway) ok back to work On 26 Mar 01, at 17:04, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > And the beer... It's been a slow day. I've been thinking of setting > up a dummy website for BuyMeABeer.com, just to get the mechanics in > place. It'll replace the Weekly Bartender's report... More later. > --e > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 27 07:31:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 15:31:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 59161 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 15:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 15:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:32:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2RFVRB55645 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:31:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0b6d2$de4c3ea0$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:30:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Hey.... Wait a second, that's right! The standard moving/painting contract is that your friends supply the labor, and you supply the pizza and beer. I protest! (although the food has been better than pizza) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:54 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > Why's that? Actually they've not only been painting my house, but bringing > the beer too... > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:02 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > You didn't give them real beers. > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > > > > > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to > > > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > > > dangerous waters here... > > > > > > Revised report: > > > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > > > PB 2 (from EV) > > > FH 1 (from EV) > > > PK 1 (from BA) > > > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 27 07:48:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 15:48:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25206 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 15:48:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 15:48:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:49:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA24484 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:48:09 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:50:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001701c0b6d2$de4c3ea0$c4a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I guess that means I can't borrow your truck? The first batch of beer will be dedicated to you... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:31 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > Hey.... > > Wait a second, that's right! The standard moving/painting > contract is that > your friends supply the labor, and you supply the pizza and beer. I > protest! > > (although the food has been better than pizza) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:54 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > Why's that? Actually they've not only been painting my house, but > bringing > > the beer too... > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:02 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > > > You didn't give them real beers. > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > > > > > > > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to > > > > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > > > > dangerous waters here... > > > > > > > > Revised report: > > > > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > > > > PB 2 (from EV) > > > > FH 1 (from EV) > > > > PK 1 (from BA) > > > > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > -> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 27 07:56:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 15:56:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 29299 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 15:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 15:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 15:56:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-11.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.196]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2RFuWB58021 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:56:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003201c0b6d6$5f6b54a0$c4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:55:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Seriously, do you need it? I'm off to the Bronx right now, but I'll wait a couple of minutes for your reply... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > I guess that means I can't borrow your truck? The first batch of beer will > be dedicated to you... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:31 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > Hey.... > > > > Wait a second, that's right! The standard moving/painting > > contract is that > > your friends supply the labor, and you supply the pizza and beer. I > > protest! > > > > (although the food has been better than pizza) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:54 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > Why's that? Actually they've not only been painting my house, but > > bringing > > > the beer too... > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:02 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't give them real beers. > > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > > > > > > > > > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like to > > > > > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > > > > > dangerous waters here... > > > > > > > > > > Revised report: > > > > > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > > > > > PB 2 (from EV) > > > > > FH 1 (from EV) > > > > > PK 1 (from BA) > > > > > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Mar 27 08:02:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 16:02:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 62813 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 16:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 16:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 17:03:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA26027 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:02:05 -0500 (EST) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:04:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003201c0b6d6$5f6b54a0$c4a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Not today... Thanks anyway... > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:56 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > Seriously, do you need it? I'm off to the Bronx right now, but > I'll wait a > couple of minutes for your reply... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:50 AM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > I guess that means I can't borrow your truck? The first batch of beer > will > > be dedicated to you... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:31 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > > > Hey.... > > > > > > Wait a second, that's right! The standard moving/painting > > > contract is that > > > your friends supply the labor, and you supply the pizza and beer. I > > > protest! > > > > > > (although the food has been better than pizza) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:54 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > > > > Why's that? Actually they've not only been painting my house, but > > > bringing > > > > the beer too... > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:02 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: re: [scatterbrains] Bartender's report > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't give them real beers. > > > > > > > > > > On 23 Mar 01, at 16:16, eventi@w... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I distinctly remeber giving one to PB a while back, and I'd like > to > > > > > > add one each for PB & BA for helping me paint. We're treading > > > > > > dangerous waters here... > > > > > > > > > > > > Revised report: > > > > > > BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) > > > > > > PB 2 (from EV) > > > > > > FH 1 (from EV) > > > > > > PK 1 (from BA) > > > > > > EV 1 (from PK) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > friends! > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > > > > > > -> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Tue Mar 27 12:43:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 20:43:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 40694 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA26534 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:36:58 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Proposal 318 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:36:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Begin Proposal 318 Proposal Limit There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number i.e. Begin Proposal 318 End Proposal 318 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 27 13:15:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 21:15:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 22537 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 21:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 22:16:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:35:00 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:27:02 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:26:55 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:26:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <008790035211b31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, since you have not specified an original. What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify something about a poll being opened immediately or within say fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary clause. More ambitously, Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate period (if that is a part of what you want to do) pk On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > Begin Proposal 318 > > Proposal Limit > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin > Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin > Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals have been > reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 27 13:17:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 21:17:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 24913 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 21:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 22:18:34 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:36:59 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:29:02 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:28:45 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:28:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: joke response to 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <009c85936211b31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Please send this to my dissertation committee in a few weeks pk On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > Begin Proposal 318 > > Proposal Limit > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin > Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin > Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals have been > reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From f_hemker@h... Tue Mar 27 13:18:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 21:18:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 12574 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:18:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 21:18:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 21:18:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.10.119] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2001 21:18:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:18:31 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 318 Message-ID: <99r037+i2e1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1071 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.8 From: f_hemker@h... Oooh, wicked. Sounds like a kind of limit on debate. In other words: you better have your act together. I don't know if I agree, but I have to give your credit for your line of thinking. -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > Begin Proposal 318 > > Proposal Limit > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final Proposal. The > first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin Proposal XXX" then > each revision after will have a heading "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" > Once the limit of Three proposals have been reached then the final proposal > heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e... From pkirklan@e... Tue Mar 27 13:32:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 27 Mar 2001 21:32:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 71062 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2001 21:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 21:32:52 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:52:21 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:44:23 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 27 Mar 01 15:44:00 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:43:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Re: Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <99r037+i2e1@eGroups.com> References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <009cf2152211b31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 27 Mar 01, at 21:18, f_hemker@h... wrote: > Oooh, wicked. Sounds like a kind of limit on debate. In other > words: you better have your act together. > > I don't know if I agree, but I have to give your credit How about a "beer" for your line > of thinking. > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Arturo, Bob" wrote: > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > Proposal Limit > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > Proposal. The > > first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin > Proposal XXX" then > > each revision after will have a heading "Begin Proposal XXX > rev. 2, or 3" > > Once the limit of Three proposals have been reached then the > final proposal > > heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > or copying > > of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e... > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Tue Mar 27 17:45:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 01:45:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 97388 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 01:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 01:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 01:45:28 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-23.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.208]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2S1jQZ16700 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:45:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001401c0b728$a46485c0$d0a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037386@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:44:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > Damn, and I thought that things were going to get INTERESTING around here... From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 28 04:40:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 12:40:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 70370 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 12:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 12:40:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 12:40:50 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-10.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.195]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2SCemZ67947 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:40:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c0b784$31c47aa0$c3a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Score Report Round 317 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:39:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Another boring one: Eugene gets 12 points for the passage of Rule 317 Fritz gets 10 points for voting against Rule 317 Voila. EV:75 PB:64 FH:49.5 PK:29.5 BA:29 From barturo@e... Wed Mar 28 05:02:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 13:02:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 9009 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 13:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 13:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 13:02:05 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24637 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:55:10 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037387@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:55:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B786.4DBC4A60" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B786.4DBC4A60 Content-Type: text/plain -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, since you have not specified an original. I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the original plus two revisions and then the final. What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify something about a poll being opened immediately or within say fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. I don't want this to be a time limit. I just want the game to move on. It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary clause. More ambitously, Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just don't want a player to keep changing the proposal. Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate period (if that is a part of what you want to do) pk On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > Begin Proposal 318 > > Proposal Limit > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin > Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin > Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals have been > reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B786.4DBC4A60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 200= 1 4:27 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318

     <= /o:p>

    This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. <= /font>

    First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a =
    total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear,
    since you have not specified an original. 
    <= font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New">

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      I’ll clear that up it is a total of 4, the original plus two revisions and then = the final.

     <= /tt>

    What is the actual force of this rule?  You need to specify <= br> something about a poll being opened immediately or within say
    fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted.
    <= tt>

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      I don’t want this to be a time limit. I just want the game to move on.<= o:p>



    It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final <= br> a poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the
    proposer fails to do so)
    The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary clause.
    =



    More ambitously,
    Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? =
    i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players.
    =

     =

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      I don’t want it to cut off any debate. I just don’t want a player= to keep changing the proposal.



    Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and
    no rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll.&nb= sp;
    Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate
    period (if that is a part of what you want to do) 

    pk

    On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote:

    >
    > Begin Proposal 318
    >
    >  Proposal Limit
    > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final=
    > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin
    > Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin
    > Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals = have been
    > reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XX= X Final".
    >
    >   *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number
    > i.e. Begin Proposal 318
    >
    > End Proposal 318
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this<= /tt>
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution = or
    > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are no= t
    > the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > webmaster@e....
    >
    >
    >
    > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at<= /tt>
    > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
    > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friend= s!
    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM
    > ------------------------------------------------------------------= ---_
    > ->
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.co= m/info/terms/
    >
    >




    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B786.4DBC4A60-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 28 10:22:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 18:22:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 83735 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 18:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 18:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 19:22:40 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:41:56 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Mar 01 12:33:10 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Mar 01 12:32:48 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:32:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037387@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00c6b5641181c31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" All I mean is that if you really want the game to move on, this could be more forceful. I do think that you need something about a poll automatically opening after the fourth, else what happens if I revise again and do not call it final and then change it before I open the poll? after class on "votes to cut off debate" Let Fritz remind you of the Senate rules. On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. > > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, > since you have not specified an original. > I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the > original > plus two revisions and then the final. > > > What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. > I don't want this to be a time limit. I just > want > the game to move on. > > > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary > clause. > > > More ambitously, > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. > > I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just > don't > want a player to keep changing the proposal. > > > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no > rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) > > pk > > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > Proposal Limit > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals > > have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal > > XXX Final". > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603217/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603217/rand=935497407> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From bernardo@c... Wed Mar 28 12:18:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 20:18:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 9754 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 20:17:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 20:17:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 20:17:31 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-14.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.199]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f2SKHSZ62018 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:17:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0b7c3$fdb6df60$c7a811d0@computer> To: References: <00c6b5641181c31ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:16:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I'd be more inclined to support a law that requires a vote, or some registration of the will of the community, in order to stop debate, rather than an automatic system. Some laws just need more work than others... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 1:32 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > All I mean is that if you really want the game to move on, this could > be more forceful. > > I do think that you need something about a poll automatically > opening after the fourth, else what happens if I revise again and do > not call it final and then change it before I open the poll? > > after class on "votes to cut off debate" Let Fritz remind you of the > Senate rules. > > > > > On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > > > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. > > > > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a > > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, > > since you have not specified an original. > > I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the > > original > > plus two revisions and then the final. > > > > > > What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify > > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say > > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. > > I don't want this to be a time limit. I just > > want > > the game to move on. > > > > > > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a > > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the > > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary > > clause. > > > > > > More ambitously, > > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? > > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. > > > > I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just > > don't > > want a player to keep changing the proposal. > > > > > > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no > > rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. > > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate > > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) > > > > pk > > > > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > > > Proposal Limit > > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading > > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading > > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals > > > have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal > > > XXX Final". > > > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > 000570 > > 88:N/A=603217/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > > Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! > > > > > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603217/rand=935497407> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Mar 28 12:39:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 28 Mar 2001 20:39:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 93033 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 20:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2001 20:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 21:39:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:58:38 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 28 Mar 01 14:49:53 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 28 Mar 01 14:49:30 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:49:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF037387@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00cdf3858201c31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Let me try to state this succinctly: The purpose the law seems to be to limit the length of debate on proposals. Does it fulfill this purpose? By limiting the number of official revisions. It limits neither the time or the amount of change to a proposal. All of us have used phrases like "OK I will change that to do X ", or :"I will fix the language I mean X" This would at worst discourage such changes from being formalized so that we know what we are debating. A player could still endlessly delay offering a final proposal and endlessly revise without actually writing it up. If you also added something that would enable a majority vote to force the offering of a Final Form and the opening of a poll, things would keep moving at the speed the majority wanted it to. I am not opposed to a number of proposals limit before we vote up or down, but to really have an effect your rule could do more. pk On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. > > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, > since you have not specified an original. > I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the > original > plus two revisions and then the final. > > > What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. > I don't want this to be a time limit. I just > want > the game to move on. > > > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary > clause. > > > More ambitously, > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. > > I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just > don't > want a player to keep changing the proposal. > > > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no > rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) > > pk > > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > Proposal Limit > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals > > have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal > > XXX Final". > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603217/*http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870> > Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603217/rand=935497407> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From barturo@e... Thu Mar 29 08:28:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 29 Mar 2001 16:28:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 10352 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 16:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2001 16:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 16:26:37 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA01307 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:19:27 -0500 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03738D@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:19:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0B86C.03A3F770" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B86C.03A3F770 Content-Type: text/plain -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:50 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Let me try to state this succinctly: The purpose the law seems to be to limit the length of debate on proposals. No that is not what I want to do. I would like to limit the amount of Proposal Revisions. I really don't care how long a debate is. If I want to send out a revision while PB and EV debate an issue I don't think is relevant I'll submit a revised proposal or even a final. Does it fulfill this purpose? N/A By limiting the number of official revisions. It limits neither the time or the amount of change to a proposal. Correct All of us have used phrases like "OK I will change that to do X ", or :"I will fix the language I mean X" This would at worst discourage such changes from being formalized so that we know what we are debating. That is the point. I tell you I will change "X" then I tell EV I'll change it to something he likes then I change it to something FH likes. Where does it end? While I make those changes you are still debating something that was changed three revisions ago. A player could still endlessly delay offering a final proposal and endlessly revise without actually writing it up. This is not a time limit. If a player does delay the game for no reason then that is his problem. The object of the game is to WIN, delaying your final proposal will delay you from getting points. That would probably tick off some other players and they might not vote for the proposal and the that player would lose points. If you also added something that would enable a majority vote to force the offering of a Final Form and the opening of a poll, things would keep moving at the speed the majority wanted it to. I am not opposed to a number of proposals limit before we vote up or down, but to really have an effect your rule could do more. pk On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. > > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, > since you have not specified an original. > I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the > original > plus two revisions and then the final. > > > What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. > I don't want this to be a time limit. I just > want > the game to move on. > > > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a secondary > clause. > > > More ambitously, > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. > > I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just > don't > want a player to keep changing the proposal. > > > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and no > rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) > > pk > > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > Proposal Limit > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals > > have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Begin Proposal > > XXX Final". > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ -> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > < http://rd.yahoo.com/M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egroupmail/S=17 > 000570 > 88:N/A=603217/* http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870 > > Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! > > > < http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egro > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603217/rand=935497407> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B86C.03A3F770 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2= 001 3:50 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318

     <= /o:p>

    Let me try to state this succinctly:

    The purpose the law seems to be to limit the length of debate on <= br> proposals.

    No that is = not what I want to do. I would like to limit the amount of Proposal Revisions. = I really don’t care how long a debate is. If I want to send out a revis= ion while PB and EV debate an issue I don’t think is relevant I’ll submit= a revised proposal or even a final.


    Does it fulfill this purpose?
    N/A


    By limiting the number of official revisions.  It limits neither t= he time
    or the amount of change to a proposal.

        &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;      Correct=

     =


    All of us have used phrases like "OK I will change that to do X ", or
    :"I will fix the language I mean X"  This would at worst discourage
    such changes from being formalized so that we know what we are debating. 

     =

    That is the point. I tell you I will change “X” then I tell EV I’ll c= hange it to something he likes then I change it to something FH likes. Where does it end? While I make those changes you are still debating something that was changed three revisions ago.


    A player could still endlessly delay offering a final proposal and
    endlessly revise without actually writing it up.

     =

    This is not= a time limit. If a player does delay the game for no reason then that is his problem. The object of the game is to WIN, delaying your final proposal wil= l delay you from getting points. That would probably tick off some other play= ers and they might not vote for the proposal and the that player would lose poi= nts.



    If you also added something that would enable a majority vote to <= br> force the offering of a Final Form and the opening of a poll, things
    would keep moving at the speed the majority wanted it to. 
    I am not opposed to a number of proposals limit before we vote up =
    or down, but to really have an effect your rule could do more. 

    pk


    On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote:

    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318
    >
    > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth.
    >
    > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a<= /tt>
    > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear= ,
    > since you have not specified an original.
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; original
    > plus two revisions and then the final.
    >
    >
    > What is the actual force of this rule?  You need to specify <= /tt>
    > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say
    > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted.
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; I don't want this to be a time limit. I just
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; want
    > the game to move on.
    >
    >
    > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a=
    > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the
    > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a second= ary
    > clause.
    >
    >
    > More ambitously,
    > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate?<= /tt>
    > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players.
    >
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; I don't want it to cut off any debate. I just
    >           &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; don't
    > want a player to keep changing the proposal.
    >
    >
    > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and= no
    > rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. =
    > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debat= e
    > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) 
    >
    > pk
    >
    > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Begin Proposal 318
    > >
    > >  Proposal Limit
    > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final=
    > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the headin= g
    > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will = have a heading
    > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three proposals
    > > have been reached then the final proposal heading of "Be= gin Proposal
    > > XXX Final".
    > >
    > >   *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actu= al proposal number
    > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318
    > >
    > > End Proposal 318
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of = this
    > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribu= tion or
    > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you a= re not
    > > the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > > webmaster@e....
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you mad= e at
    > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 milli= on
    > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends!
    > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > <http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM>
    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -_ ->
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yah= oo.com/info/terms/
    > > <http://docs= .yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
    >
    >
    > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=3D183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=3Degroupm= ail/S=3D17
    > 000570
    > 88:N/A=3D603217/*http://ww= w.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=3D870>
    > Click Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff!
    >
    >
    > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=3D183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D= =3Degro
    > upmail /S=3D1700057088:N/A=3D603217/rand=3D935497407>
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
    > <http://docs.yaho= o.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.
    >
    >
    > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this<= /tt>
    > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution = or
    > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are no= t
    > the specified recipient, please notify us at
    > webmaster@e....
    >
    >
    >




    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0B86C.03A3F770-- From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 29 08:55:34 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 29 Mar 2001 16:55:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 60223 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 16:54:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2001 16:54:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 16:54:54 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:15:04 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 29 Mar 01 11:06:30 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 29 Mar 01 11:06:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:06:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03738D@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00e520415171d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Fine I guess I just misunderstood your purposes, and I thought this might do more. POF: Has anyone offered more than four versions of a proposal yet? The point is to win, but it is also to be interesting and fun. On 29 Mar 01, at 11:19, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > Let me try to state this succinctly: > > The purpose the law seems to be to limit the length of debate on > proposals. No that is not what I want to do. I would like to limit the > amount of Proposal Revisions. I really don't care how long a debate > is. If I want to send out a revision while PB and EV debate an issue I > don't think is relevant I'll submit a revised proposal or even a > final. > > Does it fulfill this purpose? N/A > > By limiting the number of official revisions. It limits neither the > time or the amount of change to a proposal. > Correct > > > All of us have used phrases like "OK I will change that to do X ", or > :"I will fix the language I mean X" This would at worst discourage > such changes from being formalized so that we know what we are > debating. > > That is the point. I tell you I will change "X" then I tell EV I'll > change it to something he likes then I change it to something FH > likes. Where does it end? While I make those changes you are still > debating something that was changed three revisions ago. > > A player could still endlessly delay offering a final proposal and > endlessly revise without actually writing it up. > > This is not a time limit. If a player does delay the game for no > reason then that is his problem. The object of the game is to WIN, > delaying your final proposal will delay you from getting points. That > would probably tick off some other players and they might not vote for > the proposal and the that player would lose points. > > > If you also added something that would enable a majority vote to force > the offering of a Final Form and the opening of a poll, things would > keep moving at the speed the majority wanted it to. > > I am not opposed to a number of proposals limit before we vote up or > down, but to really have an effect your rule could do more. > > pk > > > On 28 Mar 01, at 7:55, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:27 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 > > > > This seems like a good idea, but it needs some teeth. > > > > First, do you mean an orignal, three revisons, and a final, for a > > total of five possible versions, if not, it needs to be more clear, > > since you have not specified an original. > > I'll clear that up it is a total of 4, the > > original > > plus two revisions and then the final. > > > > > > What is the actual force of this rule? You need to specify > > something about a poll being opened immediately or within say > > fifteen minutes of the final proposal being posted. > > I don't want this to be a time limit. I just > > want > > the game to move on. > > > > > > It could be written as the fourth version of a proposal is final a > > poll shall be opened (thus allowing any player to open it if the > > proposer fails to do so) The labeling aspect can stand as a > > secondary clause. > > > > > > More ambitously, > > Have you considered adding some procudure for cutting off debate? > > i.e., a call for a final proposal from the players. > > > > I don't want it to cut off any debate. I > > just don't > > want a player to keep changing the proposal. > > > > > > Currently there is no limit to how long we can debate a single and > > no rule to prevent a player from waiting indefintely to open a poll. > > Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the debate > > period (if that is a part of what you want to do) > > > > pk > > > > On 27 Mar 01, at 15:36, Arturo, Bob wrote: > > > > > > > > Begin Proposal 318 > > > > > > Proposal Limit > > > There will be a limit of Three Revised Proposal and One Final > > > Proposal. The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading > > > "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading > > > "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3" Once the limit of Three > > > proposals have been reached then the final proposal heading of > > > "Begin Proposal XXX Final". > > > > > > *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number > > > i.e. Begin Proposal 318 > > > > > > End Proposal 318 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution > > > or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are > > > not the specified recipient, please notify us at > > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > > > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > > > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your > > > friends! http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > < http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > -- -_ -> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > < > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > < > > http://rd.yahoo.com/M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egroupmail/S=1 > > 7 > > > 000570 > 88:N/A=603217/* > http://www.iwin.com/adbuy/banner/clicktrack.asp?id=870 > > > Click > Here! iWin.com - The place to win stuff! > > > < > http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=183681.1344045.2940285.908943/D=egro > > > upmail /S=1700057088:N/A=603217/rand=935497407> > > To unsubscribe > from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! > Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE > * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > > the specified recipient, please notify us at > > webmaster@e.... > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > 088:N/ > A=610486/*http://www.net2phone.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=WC6916E > F&url= /jump/campaign> Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! Paid > Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here! > > > l/S=17 00057088:N/A=610486/rand=788087059> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of Service. > > > * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this > confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the specified recipient, please notify us at > webmaster@e.... > > > From pkirklan@e... Thu Mar 29 09:13:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 29 Mar 2001 17:13:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 10015 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 17:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2001 17:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 17:12:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:32:57 -0600 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 29 Mar 01 11:24:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 29 Mar 01 11:24:01 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:24:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03738D@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <00bea5732171d31ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I guess what I had in mind was the following scenario (Let me use my failed prop as the example) I propose honorary points as part of the score Nobody likes it. I see it going down in flames I see a new possibility of a side register of HPs (realizing that PB's pseudo-suggestion could have some future use) I announce my plans to re-write We spend six more days. The proposal fails anyway. OR I announce plans to rewrite. EV knows he is going to vote against whatever I propose and wants to get on to his turn. He calls for a vote on end to the debate and a vote on the original proposal. A vote on closing debate and revision period is held It passes I am forced to shut up (the good part) The proposal fails We move on. (more opportunity's for good laws, more oppurtunity's to score points) Such a possiblity could increase both the efficiency of our time spent on this game, AND the strategic fun. Now, maybe you don't want to do this, but it seems like it would be a useful and interesting part of this proposal, and it seems like there is a will for it. Limiting the number of official revisions does not limit the amount of change to the proposal only how often those changes are made public. From pkirklan@e... Fri Mar 30 12:35:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 30 Mar 2001 20:35:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 60958 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 20:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 30 Mar 2001 20:35:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 20:35:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.1.35] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2001 20:35:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 20:35:33 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: bartender's report Message-ID: <9a2qml+32g4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 246 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.178.172 From: pkirklan@e... I know it's a little early but I am leaving for Notre Dame. BA 2 (1 from PK, 1 from EV) PB 2 (from EV) FH 1 (from EV) PK 1 (from BA) EV 1 (from PK) How is the BuyMeABeer.com model going? P.S. Duke Mich St. I'll bet a "beer" on it. From barturo@e... Mon Apr 02 10:23:14 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 17:23:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 37562 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 17:23:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 17:23:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 18:24:16 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27524 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:23:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:16:06 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03739C@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:16:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 Proposal Limit There will be a limit of Four Proposal Submittals (The Original Proposal Two Revised Proposal and One Final Proposal). The first Proposal will be recognized by the heading "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3"(if needed) Once the limit of Three proposals have been reached then a Final Proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number i.e. Begin Proposal 318 End Proposal 318 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From pkirklan@e... Mon Apr 02 14:04:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_0_1); 2 Apr 2001 21:04:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 65535 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 21:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Apr 2001 21:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 21:02:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:21:41 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 2 Apr 01 16:14:00 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 2 Apr 01 16:13:40 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:13:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF03739C@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <013424121210241ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" just a really nit-picking thing. shouldn't the word "Begin" be confined to the body of the message and mark off the proposal from any comment that might be sent with it (or do you mean prevent other content) pk From barturo@e... Tue Apr 03 07:09:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 14:09:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 66544 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 14:09:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 14:09:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 15:10:08 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29506 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:08:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:01:46 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A2@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:01:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC46.9C25F600" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC46.9C25F600 Content-Type: text/plain Yea your right you are nit-picking. The word "Begin" does not need to be in the subject of the e-mail, but it does need to be in the "Heading" of the message. If there are no other issues... -----Original Message----- From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:14 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 just a really nit-picking thing. shouldn't the word "Begin" be confined to the body of the message and mark off the proposal from any comment that might be sent with it (or do you mean prevent other content) pk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC46.9C25F600 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Yea = your right you are nit-picking. The word “Begin” does not need to be= in the subject of the e-mail, but it does need to be in the “Heading” of the m= essage. If there are no other issues…

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...]
    Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001= 5:14 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= Begin Proposal 318 rev.2

     <= /o:p>

    just a really nit-picking thing.
    shouldn't the word "Begin" be confined to the body of the mes= sage
    and mark off the proposal from any comment that might be sent
    with it (or do you mean prevent other content)
    pk


    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC46.9C25F600-- From pkirklan@e... Tue Apr 03 07:55:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 66365 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:14:35 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 3 Apr 01 10:07:04 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 3 Apr 01 10:06:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:06:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Begin Proposal 318 rev.2 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A2@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <016543514150341ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" nit-picking is a good sign. From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Apr 03 10:49:02 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82690 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 17:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 17:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fg.egroups.com) (10.1.2.134) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 17:49:01 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.91] by fg.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Apr 2001 17:49:01 -0000 Date: 3 Apr 2001 17:48:59 -0000 Message-ID: <986320139.1190.13974.cf@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the scatterbrains group: Would you like Proposal 318 to become a law? See e-mail marked Proposal 318 Final for details. o No o Yes To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From barturo@e... Tue Apr 03 10:49:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 17:49:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 44241 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 17:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 17:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 18:50:38 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA26097 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:49:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:42:28 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A4@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Subject: Proposal 318 Final Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:42:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" Begin Proposal 318 Final Proposal Limit There will be a limit of Four Proposal Submittals (The Original Proposal Two Revised Proposal and One Final Proposal). The first Proposal will be recognized by an E-Mail heading of "Begin Proposal XXX" then each revision after will have a heading "Begin Proposal XXX rev. 2, or 3"(if needed) Once the limit of Three proposals have been reached then a Final Proposal heading of "Begin Proposal XXX Final". *Note: "XXX" in the heading is the actual proposal number i.e. Begin Proposal 318 End Proposal 318 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From f_hemker@h... Tue Apr 03 11:50:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: f_hemker@h... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 18:50:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 55295 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 18:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 18:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 18:50:19 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: f_hemker@h... Received: from [10.1.4.66] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Apr 2001 18:50:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 18:50:15 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: New poll for scatterbrains Message-ID: <9ad617+evqi@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <986320139.1190.13974.cf@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 631 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 192.216.141.6 From: f_hemker@h... I don't know about a law, but I may want to see it become a rule! -Fritz --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > scatterbrains group: > > Would you like Proposal 318 to become a > law? See e-mail marked Proposal 318 > Final for details. > > o No > o Yes > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! From eventi@n... Tue Apr 03 11:52:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 18:52:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 44040 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 18:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 18:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 19:53:33 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA03826 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:52:28 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:54:37 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <9ad617+evqi@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" "I'm just a bill, yeah I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin here on Capitol Hill..." > -----Original Message----- > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:50 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > I don't know about a law, but I may want to see it become a rule! > > -Fritz > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > scatterbrains group: > > > > Would you like Proposal 318 to become a > > law? See e-mail marked Proposal 318 > > Final for details. > > > > o No > > o Yes > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > Groups > > web site listed above. > > > > Thanks! > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Apr 03 11:57:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 18:57:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 56994 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 18:57:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 18:57:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 19:58:27 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:16:39 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 3 Apr 01 14:09:11 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 3 Apr 01 14:08:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:08:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <9ad617+evqi@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <015ac3916190341ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" what was the 4th version of McCain-Feingold? How many times has it been changed in total? On 3 Apr 01, at 14:54, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > "I'm just a bill, yeah I'm only a bill, and I'm sittin here on Capitol > Hill..." > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: f_hemker@h... [mailto:f_hemker@h...] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 2:50 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: New poll for scatterbrains > > > > > > I don't know about a law, but I may want to see it become a rule! > > > > -Fritz > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., scatterbrains@y... wrote: > > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > > scatterbrains group: > > > > > > Would you like Proposal 318 to become a > > > law? See e-mail marked Proposal 318 > > > Final for details. > > > > > > o No > > > o Yes > > > > > > > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains/polls > > > > > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > > > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! > > Groups > > > web site listed above. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Tue Apr 03 12:16:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26095 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 19:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 19:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 19:16:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.4.74] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Apr 2001 19:16:24 -0000 Date: 3 Apr 2001 19:16:23 -0000 Message-ID: <986325383.1913.11060.k12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for scatterbrains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following scatterbrains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Would you like Proposal 318 to become a law? See e-mail marked Proposal 318 Final for details. CHOICES AND RESULTS - No, 2 votes, 40.00% - Yes, 3 votes, 60.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - No - bernardo@c... - f_hemker@h... - Yes - eventi@n... - pkirklan@e... - barturo@e... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scatterbrains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From bernardo@c... Tue Apr 03 13:25:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 20:25:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 788 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 20:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 20:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 20:25:01 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.193]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f33KOxZ87769 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:24:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001701c0bc7c$06894580$c1a811d0@computer> To: Subject: quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:24:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 From barturo@e... Tue Apr 03 13:43:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 20:43:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 14819 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 20:43:50 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17303 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:36:39 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A5@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:36:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7D.C325C460" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7D.C325C460 Content-Type: text/plain Point mongers !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7D.C325C460 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Poin= t mongers !!!!

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:24 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and dirty score report for round 318

     <= /o:p>

    Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB: 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK: 29.5



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7D.C325C460-- From bernardo@c... Tue Apr 03 13:48:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 20:48:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 64515 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 20:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 20:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 20:48:34 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-08.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.193]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f33KmUZ90099 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901c0bc7f$4f7af2e0$c1a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A5@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:47:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BC5D.C71B2800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BC5D.C71B2800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: I= don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of = stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I vote= d against. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Point mongers !!!! =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 =20=20=20 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BC5D.C71B2800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Actually I voted against your rule for the= reason=20 that I stated earlier:  I don't like these kinds of automatic limits t= hat=20 actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people.&= nbsp;=20 You ignored me, so I voted against.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob

    I fo= und 4 ESB left over from my first batch. I’ll include them.

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001= 2:28 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1)

     <= /o:p>

    Painting, demolition, and cleaning from 10AM to whenever. = ; Myla & I found
    kick-ass sushi right down the street, and we got a phone, but I don't h= ave
    the number memorized yet...  I'll make the pitstop to Andy's tonig= ht, and
    Patrick's Irish would be muy bueno!!

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:17 PM
    > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1)=
    >
    >
    > That would be a fine idea!
    >
    > I can also bring some Patrick's Irish Ale, if you'd like.
    >
    > What time is painting tomorrow?
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...>
    > To: <scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:14 PM
    > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT: FF ESB ( was: RE: Proposal 317r1)
    >
    >
    > > Do you think I could get a growler for tomorrow?
    > >
    > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 2:10 PM
    > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 317r1
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia <eventi@n...> > > > > PS: How was the Flying Fish ESB?
    > > > >
    > > > I really do love that beer.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.co= m/info/terms/
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.co= m/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= /
    >
    >



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36= =20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick= and=20 dirty score report for round 318

    Point=20 mongers !!!!

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Pat= rick D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and= dirty=20 score report for round 318

     =

    Bob g= ets 9=20 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz=20 and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule=20 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB:=20 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK:=20 29.5


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.
    =20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C0BC5D.C71B2800-- From barturo@e... Tue Apr 03 13:54:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 20:54:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 99934 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 20:54:44 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18498 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:47:29 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A6@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:47:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.48D98FA0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.48D98FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What does it rule out? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I voted against. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Point mongers !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Business information Click here for Business information To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.48D98FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    What does it rule out?

     <= /span>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:48 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= quick and dirty score report for round 318

     <= /o:p>

    Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier:  I don= 't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people.  You ignored me, so I voted against.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Arturo, Bob

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=

    Sent: Tuesday, April 03= , 2001 4:36 PM

    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Point mongers !!!!=

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [<= a href=3D"mailto:bernardo@c...">mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:24 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=
    Subject: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB: 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK: 29.5



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

     



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.48D98FA0-- From barturo@e... Tue Apr 03 13:55:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 20:55:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 2408 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 20:55:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 20:55:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 20:55:34 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA18625 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:48:19 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A7@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:48:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.66B54C80" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.66B54C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I voted against. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Point mongers !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click here for Business information Click here for Business information To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.66B54C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    All it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times!

     <= /span>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:48 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= quick and dirty score report for round 318

     <= /o:p>

    Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier:  I don= 't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people.  You ignored me, so I voted against.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Arturo, Bob

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=

    Sent: Tuesday, April 03= , 2001 4:36 PM

    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Point mongers !!!!=

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [<= a href=3D"mailto:bernardo@c...">mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:24 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=
    Subject: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB: 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK: 29.5



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

     



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient= of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us = at webmaster@e....

     



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    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BC7F.66B54C80-- From bernardo@c... Tue Apr 03 14:47:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 21:47:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 86651 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 21:47:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 21:47:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 22:48:33 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-17.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.202]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f33LlMZ03297 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 17:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501c0bc87$8909c6a0$caa811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A7@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 17:46:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0BC66.009F4D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0BC66.009F4D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right, but suppose that I have a complicated rule, and we have more people.= Lots of people suggest amendments, and most of these are good. For examp= le, my debt rule went through at least 5 changes. If this rule had been in= affect, I would have had to run with an incomplete version. I do understand that sometimes people can abuse the rule change ability, bu= t I'd rather see it done by a vote, or something like that. Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted to point out that I had a principled= objection to this rule. Plus, I think you're a jerk. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 All it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times! =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 =20=20=20 Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: = I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots o= f stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I vo= ted against. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 =20=20=20 Point mongers !!!! =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 =20=20=20 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 =20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 =20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0BC66.009F4D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Right, but suppose that I have a complicat= ed rule,=20 and we have more people.  Lots of people suggest amendments, and most = of=20 these are good.  For example, my debt rule went through at least 5=20 changes.  If this rule had been in affect, I would have had to run wit= h an=20 incomplete version.
     
    I do understand that sometimes people can = abuse the=20 rule change ability, but I'd rather see it done by a vote, or something lik= e=20 that.
     
    Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted to = point out=20 that I had a principled objection to this rule.
     
    Plus, I think you're a jerk.
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48= =20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick= and=20 dirty score report for round 318

    All it=20 does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100=20 times!

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Pat= rick D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick= and=20 dirty score report for round 318

     =

    Actually I vo= ted=20 against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier:  I don't lik= e=20 these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, wit= hout=20 any intervention from the people.  You ignored me, so I voted=20 against.

    ----- Origina= l=20 Message -----

    From: Arturo, Bob

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'= =20

    Sent: Tuesday, Apr= il 03,=20 2001 4:36 PM

    Subject: RE: [scatter= brains]=20 quick and dirty score report for round 318

     <= ![endif]>

    Point=20 mongers !!!!

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Pat= rick D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and= dirty=20 score report for round 318

     <= ![endif]>

    Bob g= ets 9=20 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz=20 and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule=20 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB:=20 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK:=20 29.5


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

     <= ![endif]>



    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

    *=20 NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confident= ial=20 email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this=20 transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If=20 you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at=20 webmaster@e....
    <= SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext">

     <= ![endif]>

    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0BC66.009F4D60-- From eventi@n... Tue Apr 03 15:01:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 3 Apr 2001 22:01:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 21950 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 22:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Apr 2001 22:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 22:01:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA25060 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:01:09 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:03:22 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0BC68.5F6F6350" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001501c0bc87$8909c6a0$caa811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0BC68.5F6F6350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:46 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Right, but suppose that I have a complicated rule, and we have more people. Lots of people suggest amendments, and most of these are good. For example, my debt rule went through at least 5 changes. If this rule had been in affect, I would have had to run with an incomplete version. I do understand that sometimes people can abuse the rule change ability, but I'd rather see it done by a vote, or something like that. Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted to point out that I had a principled objection to this rule. Plus, I think you're a jerk. Second that! --e (who after being totally mute since his last prop, has nothing constructive at all to add to the conversation) ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 All it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I voted against. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Point mongers !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click for Details To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0BC68.5F6F6350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo=20 [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:= 46=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re:=20 [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round=20 318

    Right, but suppose that I have a complic= ated=20 rule, and we have more people.  Lots of people suggest amendments, a= nd=20 most of these are good.  For example, my debt rule went through at l= east=20 5 changes.  If this rule had been in affect, I would have had to run= with=20 an incomplete version.
     
    I do understand that sometimes people ca= n abuse=20 the rule change ability, but I'd rather see it done by a vote, or somethi= ng=20 like that.
     
    Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted t= o point=20 out that I had a principled objection to this rule.
     
     
    <= FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff>Second that!
        --e (= who after=20 being totally mute since his last prop, has nothing constructive at all t= o add=20 to the conversation)
    ----- Original Message -----
    F= rom:=20 Arturo, Bob
    Plus, I think you're a jerk. 
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:= 48=20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and=20 dirty score report for round 318

    All=20 it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100=20 times!

     

    -----Origi= nal=20 Message-----
    From: P= atrick=20 D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:= 48=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and=20 dirty score report for round 318

     

    Actually I = voted=20 against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier:  I don't l= ike=20 these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff,=20 without any intervention from the people.  You ignored me, so I vo= ted=20 against.

    ----- Origi= nal=20 Message ----- <= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-a= lt: windowtext">

    <= FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2>

    From: Arturo, Bob=20

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogro= ups.com'=20

    Sent: Tuesday, A= pril=20 03, 2001 4:36 PM

    Subject: RE:=20 [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round=20 318

     

    Point=20 mongers !!!!

     

    -----Origi= nal=20 Message-----
    From: P= atrick=20 D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]=
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:= 24=20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups= .com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] quick a= nd=20 dirty score report for round 318

     

    <= FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2>Bob= gets 9=20 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz=20 and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule=20 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB:=20 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK:=20 29.5


    =

    To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egro= ups.com



    You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

     



    To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egro= ups.com



    You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20

    *=20 NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial=20 email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this= =20 transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If=20 you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at=20 webmaster@e....

     

    To= =20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egro= ups.com



    You= r use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.=20




    To unsubscribe from this group, send an em= ail=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Yo= ur=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.= =20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the= =20 specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified= that=20 any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited= .=20

    If you are not the specified recipien= t, please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20





    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
    ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0BC68.5F6F6350-- From barturo@e... Wed Apr 04 05:09:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 4 Apr 2001 12:09:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 41722 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 12:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2001 12:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 12:09:27 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA12892 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:01:25 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A8@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:01:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0BCFE.F20A24C0" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BCFE.F20A24C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:03 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:46 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Right, but suppose that I have a complicated rule, and we have more people. Lots of people suggest amendments, and most of these are good. For example, my debt rule went through at least 5 changes. If this rule had been in affect, I would have had to run with an incomplete version. I do understand that sometimes people can abuse the rule change ability, but I'd rather see it done by a vote, or something like that. Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted to point out that I had a principled objection to this rule. Plus, I think you're a jerk. Second that! --e (who after being totally mute since his last prop, has nothing constructive at all to add to the conversation) Well at least the feelings are mutual. I was scared I would have to play mister nice guy for ever. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 All it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:48 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I stated earlier: I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually rule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people. You ignored me, so I voted against. ----- Original Message ----- From: Arturo, Bob To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Point mongers !!!! -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [ mailto:bernardo@c... ] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 4:24 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318 Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318. OK? EV: 75 PB: 74 FH: 59.5 BA: 38 PK: 29.5 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> Enter Business Search Term above To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BCFE.F20A24C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

     <= /span>

     <= /span>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Eugene Ventimiglia [mailto:eventi@n...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 6:03 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains]= quick and dirty score report for round 318

     <= /o:p>

     = ;

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 5:46 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= quick and dirty score report for round 318

    Right, but suppose that I have a complicated rule, and we have more people.  = Lots of people suggest amendments, and most of these are good.  For example= , my debt rule went through at least 5 changes.  If this rule had been in affect, I would have had to run with an incomplete version.

     = ;

    I do understand that sometimes people can abuse the rule change ability, but I'd rather see it done by a vote, or something like that.

     = ;

    Nevermind, it's moot now, but I wanted to point out that I had a principled objection = to this rule.

     = ;

    Plus, I think you're a jerk.=  

     = ;

    = Second that!

        --e (who after being totally mute since his l= ast prop, has nothing constructive at all to add to the conversation)

          =             &nb= sp;     Well at least the feelings are mutual. I was scared I would have to play mister = nice guy for ever.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Arturo, Bob

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=

    Sent: Tuesday, April 03= , 2001 4:48 PM

    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318

     

    All = it does is stop a player from changing the proposal 100 times!

    &nbs= p;

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [<= a href=3D"mailto:bernardo@c...">mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:48 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=
    Subject: Re: [scatterbrains]= quick and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Actually I voted against your rule for the reason that I state= d earlier:  I don't like these kinds of automatic limits that actually r= ule out lots of stuff, without any intervention from the people.  You igno= red me, so I voted against.

    ----- Original Message -----

    From: Arturo, Bob

     

    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=

    Sent: Tuesday, April 03= , 2001 4:36 PM

    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318

     = ;

    Point mongers !!!!=

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [<= a href=3D"mailto:bernardo@c...">mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 200= 1 4:24 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com=
    Subject: [scatterbrains] qui= ck and dirty score report for round 318

     

    Bob gets 9 points for the passage of Rule 318
    Fritz and Pat get 10 points each for voting against Rule 318.

    OK?

    EV: 75
    PB: 74
    FH: 59.5
    BA: 38
    PK: 29.5



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

     = ;



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specifi= ed recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, pleas= e notify us at webmaster@e....

     = ;



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

     



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specifi= ed recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.

    If you are not the specified recipient, pleas= e notify us at webmaster@e....

     



    To unsubsc= ribe from this group, send an email to:
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    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0BCFE.F20A24C0-- From pkirklan@e... Wed Apr 04 11:37:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 4 Apr 2001 18:37:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 99208 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:56:43 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 4 Apr 01 13:49:29 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 4 Apr 01 13:49:16 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:49:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373A8@BATMAN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01a964356180441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Shouldn't this discussion have taken place sooner than this. I was actually operating under the assumption that nothing had yet gone through more than five revisions. This does not rule out the possibility of future limits to debate by a vote, and such a rule could amend this one. From bernardo@c... Wed Apr 04 12:42:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 4 Apr 2001 19:42:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 5454 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 19:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Apr 2001 19:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 19:42:48 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f34JgkZ14032 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:42:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003d01c0bd3f$4b2243e0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <01a964356180441ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:41:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I TRIED to have this discussion sooner than this. As I pointed out, I made my complaint, Bob blew me off, and I voted against the proposal. No big deal, just wanted to explain myself since he thought that I was in it just for points... ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 > Shouldn't this discussion have taken place sooner than this. > > I was actually operating under the assumption that nothing had yet > gone through more than five revisions. > > This does not rule out the possibility of future limits to debate by a > vote, and such a rule could amend this one. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Apr 04 14:04:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 4 Apr 2001 21:04:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 20758 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 21:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Apr 2001 21:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 21:03:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:22:27 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 4 Apr 01 16:15:14 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 4 Apr 01 16:15:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:15:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round 318 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003d01c0bd3f$4b2243e0$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01b9d2722210441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 4 Apr 01, at 15:41, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > I TRIED to have this discussion sooner than this. OK, well if the shoe fits....That comment was intended for whoever avoided the discussion. But, discussion is not exclusive to attempting to get the proposer to write revisions, but also for the sake of convincing others to vote for or against it. I.e, you might have persuaded me that it was too StupidO* to vote for. As I pointed out, I > made my complaint, Bob blew me off, and I voted against the proposal. > No big deal, just wanted to explain myself since he thought that I was > in it just for points... > I clearly understand that purpose. My main point was to express that there is perhaps a general preference for a proposal that allows us to cut off debate by a vote. Such a rule could operate side by side with this one or it could amend it. *StupidO in the technical sense. see archive P.S. PB, There seems to be a general preference for few things that you have been in favor of, and its your turn. PK > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:49 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] quick and dirty score report for round > 318 > > > > Shouldn't this discussion have taken place sooner than this. > > > > I was actually operating under the assumption that nothing had yet > > gone through more than five revisions. > > > > This does not rule out the possibility of future limits to debate by > > a vote, and such a rule could amend this one. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~-~> Make good on the promise you made at > graduation to keep in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million > registered high school alumni--chances are you'll find your friends! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/03IJGA/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/AANVlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 06 10:03:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 96554 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f36H3pZ82263 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c0bebb$6c499fa0$bca811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 319 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:02:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" If any of you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this would be the subject of my next proposal, so no surprises here... Proposal 319 Version 1.0 There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeister shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate in an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of Auctions as follows: Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All those wishing to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid before the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM their modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round shall win the item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM. End Proposal 319. From eventi@n... Fri Apr 06 10:20:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 17:20:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 17353 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 17:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 17:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 17:20:48 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA13031 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:20:47 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:22:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <001d01c0bebb$6c499fa0$bca811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Initial reaction: What would we be selling? Second: 10% ???? Make it 1 or 2 --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 > > > If any of you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this would be the > subject of my next proposal, so no surprises here... > > Proposal 319 Version 1.0 > > There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeister > shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected > from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to > participate in > an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating > Deputy, who shall > have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of > Auctions as follows: > > Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be > described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All > those wishing > to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid before > the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall > announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set > the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those > participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending > the AM their > modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round > shall win the > item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM. > > End Proposal 319. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 06 10:24:42 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 17:24:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 46884 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 17:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 17:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 18:25:46 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-03.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.188]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f36HOeZ84464 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003b01c0bebe$54c90de0$bca811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:23:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" From: Eugene Ventimiglia > Initial reaction: What would we be selling? Whatever the hell you want. But, primarily, this fills the gap left from my other law - where debtors voting rights get auctioned off... > Second: 10% ???? Make it 1 or 2 OK. 2%. From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 06 11:53:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 18:53:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 68211 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 18:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 18:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:54:16 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:12:56 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:05:06 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:04:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:04:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003b01c0bebe$54c90de0$bca811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01f2a5612190641ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Apr 01, at 13:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > Initial reaction: What would we be selling? > > Whatever the hell you want. > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? Would the currency for auctions be exclusively points? Can I sell things that are not expressly designated by law (say, the oppurtunity to write my proposal) Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the game? (Say, a mess of used painting stuff) Can I buy with anything besides points? Does the AM only sell things from the whole, or can I put something individually up for auction? Perhaps save this: But to raise an old question, where do the proceeds go? > But, primarily, this fills the gap left from my other law - where > debtors voting rights get auctioned off... > > > Second: 10% ???? Make it 1 or 2 > > OK. 2%. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 06 11:57:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 18:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 80090 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 18:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 18:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 18:57:48 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.186]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f36IvlZ93237 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801c0becb$57029740$baa811d0@computer> To: References: <01f2a5612190641ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:56:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Yikes! Paul, many of these questions are already answered within the proposal itself! ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? Huh? Yes, auctions will be limited to auctions established by law. >Would the currency for auctions be exclusively points? I don't know. Probably. The law was written vaguely in case we change our mind in the future. > Can I sell things that are not expressly designated by law (say, the > oppurtunity to write my proposal) Nothing has been "expressly designated by law". As I said to E, "whatever the hell you want". > Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the game? (Say, a > mess of used painting stuff) If you think somebody will really want to buy it, I guess. There's nothing currently prohibiting you from selling painting stuff for Nomic points... > Can I buy with anything besides points? > How is this different from the question, "Would the currency for auctions be exclusively points?"? > Does the AM only sell things from the whole, or can I put > something individually up for auction? Yes. > > Perhaps save this: But to raise an old question, where do the > proceeds go? Exactly as the law states. To the seller. From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 06 12:13:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 19:13:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 13838 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 19:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:13:32 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:33:15 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:25:26 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:24:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:24:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <001801c0becb$57029740$baa811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <020a11533190641ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Apr 01, at 14:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > Yikes! Paul, many of these questions are already answered within the > proposal itself! > Not unproblematically. ] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? > Huh? Yes, auctions will be limited to auctions established by law. At current, the only thing that we have to sell as a whole is slave's voting rights. Others may follow, does it have to be the sale of something that the law says we MUST sell. > > >Would the currency for auctions be exclusively points? > I don't know. Probably. The law was written vaguely in case we > change our mind in the future. > Which I think is good, but could leave a problem if somenone offers cash on top of points. How does the AM make dollars and points commensurable? OR, If someone offers 17 points and "a beer to whoever shows up at Andy's tonight" is that a legal part of the auction? > > Can I sell things that are not expressly designated by law (say, the > > oppurtunity to write my proposal) > > Nothing has been "expressly designated by law". As I said to E, > "whatever the hell you want". > > > Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the game? (Say, a > > mess of used painting stuff) > > If you think somebody will really want to buy it, I guess. There's > nothing currently prohibiting you from selling painting stuff for > Nomic points... > But, can I make the AM do it? > > Can I buy with anything besides points? > > > > How is this different from the question, "Would the currency for > auctions be exclusively points?"? > > > Does the AM only sell things from the whole, or can I put > > something individually up for auction? > > Yes. > > OK smartass, Slave voting right belong to Scatterbrains as a whole until sold, correct? If I want to sell my vote while I am in France Can I have the AM do it? MUST I have the AM do it? > > Perhaps save this: But to raise an old question, where do the > > proceeds go? > > Exactly as the law states. To the seller. > Did we not establish that the slaves-vote belong to the whole? If so, who is the seller. Isn't this why we need an auctioneer. If I want to sell something I can sell it myself. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 06 12:22:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 19:22:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 37375 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 19:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:22:20 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA24579 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:01:58 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: OT: (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:04:09 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <01f2a5612190641ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:05 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 > > > On 6 Apr 01, at 13:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > Initial reaction: What would we be selling? > > > > Whatever the hell you want. > > > > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? Would > the currency for auctions be exclusively points? > Can I sell things that are not expressly designated by law (say, the > oppurtunity to write my proposal) > Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the game? (Say, a > mess of used painting stuff) Too much supply, no demand... How about 3 garbage barrels full of rotted bathroom subfloor? --e From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 06 12:34:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 19:34:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 53017 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 19:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 20:35:52 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:54:32 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:46:43 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 14:46:42 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:46:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OT: (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319) Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01f2a5612190641ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01fd73254190641ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 6 Apr 01, at 15:04, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:05 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 > > > > > > On 6 Apr 01, at 13:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > Initial reaction: What would we be selling? > > > > > > Whatever the hell you want. > > > > > > > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? Would the > > currency for auctions be exclusively points? Can I sell things that > > are not expressly designated by law (say, the oppurtunity to write > > my proposal) Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the > > game? (Say, a mess of used painting stuff) > > Too much supply, no demand... How about 3 garbage barrels full of > rotted bathroom subfloor? > > --e I'll offer you one "beer" for it (but only if you hold it for me)> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 06 12:44:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 19:44:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 93998 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:44:38 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA29866 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:44:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: OT: (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:46:47 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <01fd73254190641ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:47 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: OT: (was: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319) > > > On 6 Apr 01, at 15:04, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:05 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 > > > > > > > > > On 6 Apr 01, at 13:23, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > > > > > Initial reaction: What would we be selling? > > > > > > > > Whatever the hell you want. > > > > > > > > > > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? Would the > > > currency for auctions be exclusively points? Can I sell things that > > > are not expressly designated by law (say, the oppurtunity to write > > > my proposal) Can I sell things that have nothing to do with the > > > game? (Say, a mess of used painting stuff) > > > > Too much supply, no demand... How about 3 garbage barrels full of > > rotted bathroom subfloor? > > > > --e > > I'll offer you one "beer" for it (but only if you hold it for me)> Too late... The fine working men of the Palisades Park sanidation Dept have already taken it. How about a painting of some guy's really ugly wife? --e > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 06 13:04:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 6 Apr 2001 20:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 23698 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 20:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2001 20:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 21:05:06 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:23:45 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 15:15:56 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 6 Apr 01 15:15:48 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:15:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT: beer auction Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <01fd73254190641ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <01fe44523200641ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Whos is auctioning off what here? All these offers just for a beer. I am selling a "beer" (for the primary reason of having something to add to the report. What is your best offer. PS how is the buymeabeer.com model coming? PPS I have some bad paintings too, but I will save them for the auctioneer From eventi@n... Mon Apr 09 09:18:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 16:18:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 4358 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 16:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 16:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.bestnet.net) (216.15.130.19) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 16:18:15 -0000 Received: from 216.15.130.19 (www.wikiweb.com [64.37.73.226]) by smtp.bestnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10751 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:17:42 -0500 Message-Id: <200104091617.LAA10751@s...> Date: 09 Apr 01 11:19:29 CST To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Join Me On The BuyMeABeer>Start Wiki! From: eventi@n... You have been invited by eventi@n... to visit the web page located at the following address: http://www.wikiweb.com/~BuyMeABeer/Start Thanks for using our service! WikiWeb, Inc. From barturo@e... Mon Apr 09 09:41:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 16:41:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 75592 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 16:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 16:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 17:42:14 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23204 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:37:45 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373B0@BATMAN> To: "'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'" Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:37:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0C113.676D9C70" From: "Arturo, Bob" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C113.676D9C70 Content-Type: text/plain It does not look like there are ways to deal with a corrupt AM. What if the AM is the Debtor? How is the auction held? Can there be an auction? -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 If any of you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this would be the subject of my next proposal, so no surprises here... Proposal 319 Version 1.0 There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeister shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate in an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of Auctions as follows: Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All those wishing to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid before the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM their modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round shall win the item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM. End Proposal 319. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C113.676D9C70 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    It d= oes not look like there are ways to deal with a corrupt AM. <= /font>

     

    What= if the AM is the Debtor? How is the auction held? Can there be an auction?

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]
    Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001= 1:03 PM
    To: scatterbrains@yahoogroup= s.com
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Pro= posal 319

     <= /o:p>

    If any of you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this wou= ld be the=
    subject of my next proposal, so no surprises here...

    Proposal 319 Version 1.0

    There will be created an office called Auctionmeister.  The Auctionmeister
    shall organize and run all auctions.  Herr Auctionmeister will be elected
    from the community at large.  If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate in
    an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall
    have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only.
    The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of
    Auctions as follows:

    Auctions shall consist of two rounds.  The item up for bid shall b= e
    described, and a time set for the end of the first round.  All tho= se wishing
    to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid bef= ore
    the end of the first round.  At the end of the first round, the AM shall
    announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only.  Then AM sh= all set
    the time for the end of the second and final round.  Any of those<= /tt>
    participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM their
    modified bid.  The highest bid at the end of the second round shal= l win the
    item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM.=

    End Proposal 319.



    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your use o= f Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that= any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. <= /FONT>

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please notify us at webmaster@e....



    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0C113.676D9C70-- From bernardo@c... Mon Apr 09 13:24:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 20:24:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 65539 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 20:23:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 20:23:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 21:24:44 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f39KNZZ27840 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c0c132$d2dd06c0$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373B0@BATMAN> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:22:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0C111.4A6AEC60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0C111.4A6AEC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Both good points. But please, find a way to make your email plain text rat= her than html. If you do, Eug'll buy you a beer. If the AM is the Debtor, I imagine he should be forced to appoint a deputy = when his vote is sold. That's pretty much covered in the rules, but I can = write it in specifically. As for the corrupt AM, it should be pretty easy to prove. I'm not sure whe= ther a straight term limit or a call for election is the best way to handle= succession of AM's, so I left it open. What would y'all prefer? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Arturo, Bob=20 To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=20 Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 It does not look like there are ways to deal with a corrupt AM.=20 =20=20=20 What if the AM is the Debtor? How is the auction held? Can there be an au= ction?=20 =20=20=20 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03 PM To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 =20=20=20 If any of you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this would be the subject of my next proposal, so no surprises here... Proposal 319 Version 1.0 There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeiste= r shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate= in an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who sh= all have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of Auctions as follows: Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All those wish= ing to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid befor= e the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM th= eir modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round shall win t= he item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM. End Proposal 319. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 Click for Details=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confide= ntial email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of th= is transmission is strictly prohibited.=20 If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@eng= ineeredsecurity.com.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0C111.4A6AEC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Both good points.  But please, find a= way to=20 make your email plain text rather than html.  If you do, Eug'll buy yo= u a=20 beer.
     
    If the AM is the Debtor, I imagine he shou= ld be=20 forced to appoint a deputy when his vote is sold.  That's pretty = much=20 covered in the rules, but I can write it in specifically.
     
    As for the corrupt AM, it should be pretty= easy to=20 prove.  I'm not sure whether a straight term limit or a call for elect= ion=20 is the best way to handle succession of AM's, so I left it open.  What= =20 would y'all prefer?
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Fro= m:=20 Arturo, Bob
    To: 'scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com'=
    Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:37= =20 PM
    Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Propo= sal=20 319

    It=20 does not look like there are ways to deal with a corrupt AM.=20

     =

    What=20 if the AM is the Debtor? How is the auction held? Can there be an auction= ?=20

     =

    -----Origina= l=20 Message-----
    From: Pat= rick D.=20 Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...]Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:03= =20 PM
    To: scatterbrains@y...= om
    Subject: [scatterbrains] Proposal= =20 319

     =

    If an= y of=20 you remember, I made a campaign pledge that this would be=20 the<= SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-f= areast-font-family: 'Courier New'">
    subject=20 of my next proposal, so no surprises here...

    Proposal 319= =20 Version 1.0

    There will be created an office called=20 Auctionmeister.  The Auctionmeister
    shall organize and r= un=20 all auctions.  Herr Auctionmeister will be elected
    from = the=20 community at large.  If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate=20 in
    an auction, he must publicly designate a non-participating= =20 Deputy, who shall
    have all the powers of the Auctionmeister f= or=20 that Auction only.

    The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be=20 responsible for the organization of
    Auctions as=20 follows:

    Auctions shall consist of two rounds.  The = item=20 up for bid shall be
    described, and a time set for the end of = the=20 first round.  All those wishing
    to participate in the au= ction=20 shall privately send the AM their bid before
    the end of the f= irst=20 round.  At the end of the first round, the AM shall
    anno= unce=20 the numerical amount of the highest bid only.  Then AM shall=20 set
    the time for the end of the second and final round. = Any=20 of those
    participating who wish to change their bid may do so= by=20 sending the AM their
    modified bid.  The highest bid at t= he=20 end of the second round shall win the
    item, with the proceeds= =20 going to the seller, and a 10% going to the AM.

    End Propo= sal=20 319.


    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroup= s.com



    Your = use of=20 Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of=20 Service.
    =20




    To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
    scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com



    Your= use=20 of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


    * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the s= pecified=20 recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any=20 distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.=20

    If you are not the specified recipient,= please=20 notify us at webmaster@e....=20



    ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C0C111.4A6AEC60-- From bernardo@c... Mon Apr 09 13:30:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 20:30:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 87857 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 20:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 20:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 21:31:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f39KTrZ28430 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:29:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003901c0c133$b43a8200$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <020a11533190641ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:28:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > On 6 Apr 01, at 14:56, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > Would this be limited to auctions established by the law? > > Huh? Yes, auctions will be limited to auctions established by law. > > At current, the only thing that we have to sell as a whole is slave's > voting rights. Others may follow, does it have to be the sale of > something that the law says we MUST sell. I'm still not sure that I'm getting your point. Some laws may specify auctions. That doesn't mean that you can't auction something else. > > > > >Would the currency for auctions be exclusively points? > > I don't know. Probably. The law was written vaguely in case we > > change our mind in the future. > > > Which I think is good, but could leave a problem if somenone offers > cash on top of points. How does the AM make dollars and points > commensurable? I dunno. Ask the AM. :) > OR, If someone offers 17 points and "a beer to whoever shows up > at Andy's tonight" is that a legal part of the auction? > I'd say no. It seems ridiculous to me, I don't imagine anyone ever doing this. Points are easily transferable. I doubt that anyone will ever bother to offer cash for an item. As for the beers, that's YOUR fault, at least partially. But I can't sidetrack this proposal to deal with that problem. > But, can I make the AM do it? > If you call an auction, it will be supervised by the AM. > > > Does the AM only sell things from the whole, or can I put > > > something individually up for auction? > > > > Yes. > > > > OK smartass, > Slave voting right belong to Scatterbrains as a whole until sold, > correct? > > If I want to sell my vote while I am in France > Can I have the AM do it? > MUST I have the AM do it? > You only call in the AM to have an auction. You can still sell anything that you want. (e.g., "I'm going away for a week, and my voting right is up for sale. First person to give me 20 points for it will take it" remains legal, but this will institutionalize a way to get an auction done.) Use it if you want, don't if you don't want to. > > > Perhaps save this: But to raise an old question, where do the > > > proceeds go? > > > > Exactly as the law states. To the seller. > > > Did we not establish that the slaves-vote belong to the whole? > If so, who is the seller. Isn't this why we need an auctioneer. If I > want to sell something I can sell it myself. > > In the case of the debtor, the funds should go to the UHEAF. But that's a whole different fish to fry. Mmmmm. Fried fish... From pkirklan@e... Mon Apr 09 13:58:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 20:58:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 71175 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 20:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 20:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 21:59:23 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:17:33 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Apr 01 16:10:22 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Apr 01 16:10:11 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:10:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003901c0c133$b43a8200$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03a7d3317210941ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" so it's down to fried fish and beer. Sounds like a lovely meal. On the "beer" and other items problem, fine, but then I think the proposal needs to state that bidding must take place in points (if that is what you mean) On UHEAF that is your problem, and if there are going to be indestructible points, there needs to a be MoCT (Motley Cow Trough--uheaf renamed) The question I am trying to get a clear answer to: Must the AM auction off anything that is given to him to put up for auction? If so, will there be limits in the rule to what can be put up for auction? On calls to vote v. term limits I prefer a call to vote I bet you can guess everyone's preference. We have one citizen who loves the idea of term limits and one other who seems to prefer automatic limits. Otherwise there seems to be preference for expressed votes on any question. PK From bernardo@c... Mon Apr 09 14:04:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 21:04:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 7492 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 21:04:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 21:04:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 22:05:16 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-13.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.198]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f39L48Z32176 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005901c0c138$7d63dd80$c6a811d0@computer> To: References: <03a7d3317210941ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:03:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland > so it's down to fried fish and beer. Sounds like a lovely meal. > This is my meal every Friday. > On the "beer" and other items problem, fine, but then I think the > proposal needs to state that bidding must take place in points (if > that is what you mean) > I don't mean points. I mean whatever currency is in place. I don't really believe in writing laws to cover imaginary scenarios. > On UHEAF that is your problem, and if there are going to be > indestructible points, there needs to a be MoCT (Motley Cow > Trough--uheaf renamed) > Again, that'd arguably be 2 laws in one. Which is currently illegal. > The question I am trying to get a clear answer to: > Must the AM auction off anything that is given to him to put up for > auction? If so, will there be limits in the rule to what can be put up > for auction? > Yes (But just because he puts it up for auction doesn't mean that anyone will buy it!), and no, why? From pkirklan@e... Mon Apr 09 14:28:10 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 9 Apr 2001 21:28:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 61748 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 21:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2001 21:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 21:28:09 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:47:22 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 9 Apr 01 16:40:13 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Apr 01 16:39:57 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:39:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OT fish and beer [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005901c0c138$7d63dd80$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <03bb22247210941ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Apr 01, at 17:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > so it's down to fried fish and beer. Sounds like a lovely meal. > > > This is my meal every Friday. It also sounds like my Locke classes. I used both in the discussion of property because I am tired of acorns and apples and it brings out the division of labor issue nicely Fish spoils very quickly It is also much easier to catch fish with some tools. Beer takes time to brew. (You can't guard your beer and fish too) Drinking beer provides an incentive for taking care of security first.(note to EV, if your reading this, and an incentive to give up the enforcement power originally invested in all) 4-Talking about beer always gets their attention. Both bring a demand for refrigeration and very divided labor. From eventi@n... Mon Apr 09 20:38:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 10 Apr 2001 03:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 21791 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 03:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2001 03:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO qzeus.carroll.com) (199.224.10.39) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 03:38:14 -0000 Received: from win [199.224.10.220] by qzeus.carroll.com with SMTP (8.8.5/0) id XAA21800; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:38:12 -0400 Message-ID: <004301c0c16f$e7e8d3e0$dc0ae0c7@v...> To: References: <200104091617.LAA10751@s...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Join Me On The BuyMeABeer>Start Wiki! Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:39:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I meant to follow this up with a sort of explanation... I've been working a little (mostly on the bus, and in my head) on the BMAB project. The link below is to a Wiki, which I thought you guys might dig. It's a sort of colaborative document system; each page is editable by anyone, so if you see mistakes, or anything needs clarification (I'm sure it does) feel free to change the pages. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Join Me On The BuyMeABeer>Start Wiki! > > > You have been invited by > eventi@n... > to visit the web page located > at the following address: > > http://www.wikiweb.com/~BuyMeABeer/Start > > Thanks for using our service! > WikiWeb, Inc. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Apr 10 13:05:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 10 Apr 2001 20:05:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 35240 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 20:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2001 20:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 20:04:41 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:24:27 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 10 Apr 01 15:16:29 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 9 Apr 01 16:27:08 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:26:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <005901c0c138$7d63dd80$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0480d2724200a41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 9 Apr 01, at 17:03, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > so it's down to fried fish and beer. Sounds like a lovely meal. > > > This is my meal every Friday. > > > > On the "beer" and other items problem, fine, but then I think the > > proposal needs to state that bidding must take place in points (if > > that is what you mean) > > > I don't mean points. I mean whatever currency is in place. I don't > really believe in writing laws to cover imaginary scenarios. > how about language that says "Scatterbrains Nomic currency." Paying cash to buy someone's right to vote mght seem ridiculous, but if is allowed someone might offfer other stuff just to thwart the process. > > On UHEAF that is your problem, and if there are going to be > > indestructible points, there needs to a be MoCT (Motley Cow > > Trough--uheaf renamed) > > > Again, that'd arguably be 2 laws in one. Which is currently illegal. > You created that problem. Do you plan to deal with it? > > The question I am trying to get a clear answer to: > > Must the AM auction off anything that is given to him to put up for > > auction? If so, will there be limits in the rule to what can be put > > up for auction? > > > Yes (But just because he puts it up for auction doesn't mean that > anyone will buy it!), and no, why? > I wanted clarity. I suppose disdain from fellow citizens is enough to prevent me from making the AM do the work of setting auctions for unrelated or unwanted items. But it would be legal to offer for auction rough drafts of dissertation chapters and necessary for the AM to undertake describing them. ? I am just not sure why you are opposed to writing in prohibitions of things you do not want? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Tue Apr 10 13:10:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 10 Apr 2001 20:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 79485 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 20:10:38 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29333 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:12:56 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <005901c0c138$7d63dd80$c6a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > > > so it's down to fried fish and beer. Sounds like a lovely meal. > > > This is my meal every Friday. > > > > On the "beer" and other items problem, fine, but then I think the > > proposal needs to state that bidding must take place in points (if > > that is what you mean) > > > I don't mean points. I mean whatever currency is in place. I > don't really > believe in writing laws to cover imaginary scenarios. That's a little sticky. You should somehow require that all players bid using the same currency, or else leave it up to the seller to decide what's the highest bid. > > > On UHEAF that is your problem, and if there are going to be > > indestructible points, there needs to a be MoCT (Motley Cow > > Trough--uheaf renamed) > > > Again, that'd arguably be 2 laws in one. Which is currently illegal. > > > The question I am trying to get a clear answer to: > > Must the AM auction off anything that is given to him to put up for > > auction? If so, will there be limits in the rule to what can be put up > > for auction? > > > Yes (But just because he puts it up for auction doesn't mean that anyone > will buy it!), and no, why? > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Tue Apr 10 13:23:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 10 Apr 2001 20:23:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 80795 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 20:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2001 20:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 20:22:20 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:42:17 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 10 Apr 01 15:34:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 10 Apr 01 15:33:50 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:33:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <005901c0c138$7d63dd80$c6a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0493c1742200a41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Huh, my message from a day ago just came through now. Some sort of server problem. I wonder if it's faster now. On the topic at hand-- The purpose of a 'currency' is to make things that are incommensurible commensurible. Either build in this problem or eliminate it altogether. Otherwise we might as well spend all our time determining how many fish trade for how many beers and no time left for drinking. From eventi@n... Tue Apr 10 13:32:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 10 Apr 2001 20:32:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 30261 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 20:31:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Apr 2001 20:31:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 20:31:11 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01722 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:31:09 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <0493c1742200a41ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" > Huh, my message from a day ago just came through now. Some > sort of server problem. I wonder if it's faster now. > > On the topic at hand-- The purpose of a 'currency' is to make things > that are incommensurible commensurible. > Either build in this problem or eliminate it altogether. > > Otherwise we might as well spend all our time determining how > many fish trade for how many beers and no time left for drinking. I think it's only natural to select Points as the currency of the Game. It's the only thing we all hold equally valuable. BTW: 1 beer == 24 fish From pkirklan@e... Wed Apr 11 12:30:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 19:30:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 93725 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 19:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 19:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 19:30:45 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:50:36 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 14:42:50 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 14:42:43 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:42:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0493c1742200a41ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04bd13650190b41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 10 Apr 01, at 16:33, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I think it's only natural to select Points as the currency of the > Game. It's the only thing we all hold equally valuable. I guess that my point is that this should be written into this proposal. Unless PB wants to leave the AM to resolve this theoretical conundrum > From pkirklan@e... Wed Apr 11 12:33:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 19:33:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 78047 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 19:33:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 19:33:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 19:33:14 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:53:04 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 14:45:19 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 14:45:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:44:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT fish jokes Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <0493c1742200a41ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04db80453190b41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 10 Apr 01, at 16:33, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > BTW: 1 beer == 24 fish Unless, of course it is a Flying Fish Sorry I couldn't resist I would like to buy EV one fish. Work THAT into your Buymeabeer model pk From eventi@n... Wed Apr 11 13:04:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 20:04:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 63363 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 20:04:54 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA14121 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:04:53 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT fish jokes Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:07:15 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <04db80453190b41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I just wish we had a cool symbol like $ or something for Beer... Fish could be <>< I'd probably still have my paper route: That'll be 2 cases and 7 bottles, please... (CLINK) Here, keep the change... (POP) Gee thanks, mister! > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:45 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT fish jokes > > > On 10 Apr 01, at 16:33, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > BTW: 1 beer == 24 fish > > Unless, of course it is a Flying Fish > > Sorry I couldn't resist > > I would like to buy EV one fish. > Work THAT into your Buymeabeer model > > pk > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Wed Apr 11 13:09:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 20:09:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 72421 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 20:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 20:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 21:10:28 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:29:16 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 15:21:31 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 11 Apr 01 15:21:24 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:21:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] OT fish jokes Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <04db80453190b41ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <04b3d1629200b41ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 11 Apr 01, at 16:07, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I just wish we had a cool symbol like $ or something for Beer... Fish > could be <>< > > I'd probably still have my paper route: > > That'll be 2 cases and 7 bottles, please... > (CLINK) Here, keep the change... > (POP) Gee thanks, mister! > But I thougt you wanted to make change in <>< . That might get a little messy. Maybe we should all agree that something that will not spoil will have an accepted value and trade for all other items. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:45 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] OT fish jokes > > > > > > On 10 Apr 01, at 16:33, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > BTW: 1 beer == 24 fish > > > > Unless, of course it is a Flying Fish > > > > Sorry I couldn't resist > > > > I would like to buy EV one fish. > > Work THAT into your Buymeabeer model > > > > pk > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From barturo@e... Wed Apr 11 14:02:23 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: BArturo@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 11 Apr 2001 21:02:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 16229 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 21:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 11 Apr 2001 21:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 22:03:23 -0000 Received: from batman.ess ([12.31.9.2]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA20232; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by BATMAN with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:58:47 -0400 Message-ID: <09A2E3F9D279D41185D8009027B8CDDF0373BB@BATMAN> To: "Scatterbrains (E-mail)" Cc: "Dave Kolesnikow (E-mail)" , "Dom Macaluso (E-mail)" , "Jim Fernandez (E-mail)" , "Steven Arturo (E-mail)" Subject: OT: Beer Quiz Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:58:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Arturo, Bob" A Friday Night at the Pub DON'T CHEAT BY SCROLLING DOWN FIRST! It only takes about a minute. Work this out as you read. Be sure you don't read the bottom until you've worked it out! Let's pretend you go to the local Pub every Friday night. Like that's a stretch! 1. You go down to the local Pub on a typical Friday night. You plan on drinking your normal amount. How many beers do you usually drink on a normal trip to the pub? (The average person has more than one but less than 10.) *REMEMBER THIS NUMBER. 2. On this particular night, you seem to have a hollow leg. *MULTIPLY THE NUMBER BY 2. 3. Just as you are getting ready to go home, five of your friends show up and each of them wants to buy you a beer. *ADD 5. 4. Over the course of a year, you spend 50 Friday nights (just like this one) at the local Pub. *MULTIPLY IT BY 50. 5. One of your drunken friends is looking for a reason to party and asks about your birthday. Have you celebrated your birthday yet this year? *If you have celebrated your birthday already this year, ADD 1751. OR *If you haven't, ADD 1750. 6. If you're still sober enough to remember what year you were born in, SUBTRACT THE FOUR-DIGIT YEAR IN WHICH YOU WERE BORN.You should have a three-digit number. The first digit is your original number (i.e., how many beers you drink on a typical night at the pub). The next two numbers are your age. If it didn't work out, you're too drunk to be doing math * NOTICE * - If the reader is not the specified recipient of this confidential email, you are hereby notified that any distribution or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the specified recipient, please notify us at webmaster@e.... From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 13 08:58:12 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 13 Apr 2001 15:58:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 29406 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2001 15:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:59:10 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp07-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.187]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3DFw4Z17737 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:58:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003201c0c432$645254a0$bba811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:57:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Sorry this is so late, but I've been rather busy. Proposal 319 Version 2.0 There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeister shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. Should the AM act in any way contrary to good behavior, any member of the community shall be able to call for a vote of confidence. Should there be a vote of no-confidence, the AM shall lose his position, and a new one elected from the community. The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of Auctions as follows: Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All those wishing to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid in points before the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM their modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round shall win the item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 2% fee going to the AM. In the event that the item is the vote of a debtor, the proceeds shall go to a special fund created for this purpose. End Proposal 319. From pkirklan@e... Tue Apr 17 09:49:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 17 Apr 2001 16:49:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6860 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 16:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2001 16:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 16:48:48 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:08:39 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 17 Apr 01 12:01:09 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 17 Apr 01 12:01:02 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:01:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <003201c0c432$645254a0$bba811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0570a3908171141ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What if everyone else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or deputy. pk From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 08:47:02 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 15:47:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 40428 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 15:47:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 15:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 15:46:59 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KFkvZ38173 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c0c9b0$fe5e64c0$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: <0570a3908171141ISWEBNT@d...> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:45:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" OK. I imagine that the general silence about this means that further discussion is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the final changes on this. So, any further comments should come out now, please ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Kirkland To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What if everyone > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > deputy. > > pk > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 09:00:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 16:00:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 70767 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KFmDZ38249 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:48:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301c0c9b1$2bce2b20$d4a811d0@computer> To: Subject: Proposal 319 V 3.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:47:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Proposal 319 Version 3.0 There will be created an office called Auctionmeister. The Auctionmeister shall organize and run all auctions. Herr Auctionmeister will be elected from the community at large. If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate in an auction , he must publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. Should the AM act in any way contrary to good behavior, any member of the community shall be able to call for a vote of confidence. Should there be a vote of no-confidence, the AM shall lose his position, and a new one elected from the community. The Auctionmeister (AM) shall be responsible for the organization of Auctions as follows: Auctions shall consist of two rounds. The item up for bid shall be described, and a time set for the end of the first round. All those wishing to participate in the auction shall privately send the AM their bid in points before the end of the first round. At the end of the first round, the AM shall announce the numerical amount of the highest bid only. Then AM shall set the time for the end of the second and final round. Any of those participating who wish to change their bid may do so by sending the AM their modified bid. The highest bid at the end of the second round shall win the item, with the proceeds going to the seller, and a 2% fee going to the AM. In the event that the item is the vote of a debtor, the proceeds shall go to a special fund created for this purpose. End Proposal 319. From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 09:05:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 16:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 98438 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 16:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:05:37 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA29143 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:05:35 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:08:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000701c0c9b0$fe5e64c0$d4a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No DSL makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all conscientiously objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > OK. > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > discussion > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the final changes on > this. > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What if everyone > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > deputy. > > > > pk > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 09:19:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 16:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 33663 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 16:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:19:25 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KGJNZ41720 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c0c9b5$8658bd40$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:18:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... In that case, it's a done deal: I win! It's officially a move that cannot be completed! ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No DSL > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all conscientiously > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > OK. > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > discussion > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the final changes on > > this. > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Paul Kirkland > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all the > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What if everyone > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > deputy. > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 09:36:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 16:36:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 76152 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 16:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:36:17 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02475 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:36:17 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:38:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002901c0c9b5$8658bd40$d4a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be completed? > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No DSL > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > conscientiously > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > --e > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > discussion > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > final changes > on > > > this. > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all > the > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > if everyone > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 10:03:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:03:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 56604 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:03:17 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KH3FZ46209 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d901c0c9bb$a77b0ae0$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:02:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion of the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's nothing that can be done. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be completed? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No DSL > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > conscientiously > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > --e > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > discussion > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > final changes > > on > > > > this. > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all > > the > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > if everyone > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only one > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 10:05:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:05:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 48338 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:05:02 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA05443 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:05:00 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:07:29 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00d901c0c9bb$a77b0ae0$d4a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I'll save you!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:02 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion of > the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's > nothing that can be done. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be > completed? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No > DSL > > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > > conscientiously > > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > > discussion > > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > > final changes > > > on > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a > debtor), he must > > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have > all > > > the > > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor > is > > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. > Why does > it > > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for > preventing > a > > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly > see > > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > > if everyone > > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only > one > > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 10:07:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:07:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 41446 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:07:18 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KH7GZ46658 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:07:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e501c0c9bc$3723c6a0$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: <00d901c0c9bb$a77b0ae0$d4a811d0@computer> Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:06:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Scratch that. I just double-checked. The language of the law DOES prohibit the proposal of a new rule. So now what? Was my proposal not really a proposal, and so I have to come up with a new one? ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick D. Bernardo To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion of > the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's > nothing that can be done. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be completed? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No > DSL > > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > > conscientiously > > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > > discussion > > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > > final changes > > > on > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have > all > > > the > > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor > is > > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does > it > > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing > a > > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly > see > > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > > if everyone > > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only > one > > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 10:11:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:10:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 95264 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:10:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:10:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:10:55 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA06042 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:10:53 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:13:22 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00d901c0c9bb$a77b0ae0$d4a811d0@computer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" It actually prevents passage of the rule... "At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules" > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:02 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion of > the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's > nothing that can be done. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be > completed? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No > DSL > > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > > conscientiously > > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > > discussion > > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > > final changes > > > on > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a > debtor), he must > > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have > all > > > the > > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor > is > > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. > Why does > it > > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for > preventing > a > > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly > see > > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > > if everyone > > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only > one > > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Fri Apr 20 10:16:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:16:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 63617 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:16:23 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-02.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.212]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3KHGKZ47676 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00f301c0c9bd$7bc53ea0$d4a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:15:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" I know, that's what I was referring to originally, but F's language is different... ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:13 PM Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > It actually prevents passage of the rule... "At no time may there be more > than 25 mutable rules" > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:02 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion of > > the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's > > nothing that can be done. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be > > completed? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. No > > DSL > > > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > > > conscientiously > > > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > > > final changes > > > > on > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a > > debtor), he must > > > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor > > is > > > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. > > Why does > > it > > > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for > > preventing > > a > > > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly > > see > > > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > > > if everyone > > > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the only > > one > > > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 10:17:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 17:17:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 65704 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 17:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:17:18 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA06631 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:17:16 -0400 (EDT) To: "Scatterbrains Nomic" Subject: Official Rule Change Suggestion Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the intention of The author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error on the proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include the language necessary to make the amendment. An overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on the proposal under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The remaining 20% (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the rule had no effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 11:32:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 18:32:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 52760 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 18:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 18:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 18:32:24 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:52:45 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 13:44:54 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 13:44:28 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:44:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000701c0c9b0$fe5e64c0$d4a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05ea94552181441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" Actually I just thought you were in Tahiti. On 20 Apr 01, at 11:45, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > OK. > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > discussion is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > final changes on this. > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul Kirkland > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a debtor), he must > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall have all > > > the powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a debtor is > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. Why does it > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for preventing a > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would unfairly see > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What if > > everyone else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the > > only one who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM > > or deputy. > > > > pk > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 12:25:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 19:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 11743 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 19:25:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 19:25:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 19:25:53 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.10.125] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2001 19:25:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:25:49 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal 319 V 2.0 Message-ID: <9bq2ft+lvr6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <00f301c0c9bd$7bc53ea0$d4a811d0@computer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 6634 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.177.236 From: pkirklan@e... F's does not matter because it would allow thirty rules There is only a problem if your proposal passes. The solution could be to simply vote it down, and let Fritz amend 209 aand fix his own mistake. Unless... Does 209 contradict 205, If so 205 takes precedence and 209 is already moot. I have another suggestion (see objection to suggested revison) pk --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Patrick D. Bernardo" wrote: > I know, that's what I was referring to originally, but F's language is > different... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > To: > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:13 PM > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > It actually prevents passage of the rule... "At no time may there be more > > than 25 mutable rules" > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:02 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > The law does not prohibit PROPOSING a law. It just prevents completion > of > > > the proposal.... Hence, since I cannot change this proposal, there's > > > nothing that can be done. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:38 PM > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > Ummmmm, how does violating a rule lead to a move that cannot be > > > completed? > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:18 PM > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did we hit the limit already? I haven't been counting... > > > > > > > > > > In that case, it's a done deal: I win! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's officially a move that cannot be completed! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Eugene Ventimiglia > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the silence... work's sucking, and house move and all. > No > > > DSL > > > > > > makes jack a dull boy. I have no objections, but why closed bids? > > > > > > > > > > > > On another note, hasn't anyone been counting? Or are we all > > > > > conscientiously > > > > > > objecting? Officially, this proposal shouldn't have been made. > > > > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Patrick D. Bernardo [mailto:bernardo@c...] > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:46 AM > > > > > > > To: scatterbrains@y... > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I imagine that the general silence about this means that further > > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > is pointless. Poll to be created today, after I make the > > > > > final changes > > > > > on > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, any further comments should come out now, please > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Paul Kirkland > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:01 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal 319 V 2.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Apr 01, at 11:57, Patrick D. Bernardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Auctionmeister wishes to participate > > > > > > > > > in an auction (or is forced due to status as a > > > debtor), he must > > > > > > > > > publicly designate a non-participating Deputy, who shall > have > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > powers of the Auctionmeister for that Auction only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise this sounds fine, but I do not understand why a > debtor > > > is > > > > > > > > "forced to pariticipate" in an auction. He cannot bid. > > > Why does > > > it > > > > > > > > matter that his vote is at stake? The only reason for > > > preventing > > > a > > > > > > > > pariticipant from running the auction is that he would > unfairly > > > see > > > > > > > > the other bids. Why would this prohibit the debtor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not a deal-breaker, but it could be important. What > > > > > if everyone > > > > > > > > else wants to bid? It seems useful to allow the debtor (the > only > > > one > > > > > > > > who is certainly not bidding) to conduct the auction as AM or > > > > > > > > deputy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 12:33:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 19:33:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 644 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 19:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 19:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fh.egroups.com) (10.1.2.135) by mta1 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 19:33:25 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pkirklan@e... Received: from [10.1.2.25] by fh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2001 19:33:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:33:21 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion Message-ID: <9bq2u1+k11r@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1505 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 207.56.177.236 From: pkirklan@e... This is NOT yet an official objection, and it is going to sound a little legalistic but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is amended. I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this turn. At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. What do you think? pk --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the intention of The > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error on the > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include the > language necessary to make the amendment. > An overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on the proposal > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The remaining 20% > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the rule had no > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 13:06:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 20:06:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 79491 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 20:06:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 20:06:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 20:06:15 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA23664 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:06:13 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:08:43 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <9bq2u1+k11r@eGroups.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of my suggestion. Read on... > -----Original Message----- > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs > the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is > amended. I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against 315. Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against because you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the precedense issue. > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything > about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this > proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take > precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in fact two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This clearly shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would > work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this turn. > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books > because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky discussion/objection issue. As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, but why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of changing the rules to meet the intention? --e > > What do you think? > > pk > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > intention of The > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error on > the > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include the > > language necessary to make the amendment. > > An overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on > the proposal > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > remaining 20% > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the > rule had no > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 14:57:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 21:57:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 70715 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 21:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 21:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 21:57:36 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:17:54 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:10:05 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:09:45 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:09:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <9bq2u1+k11r@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <05fb55417221441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of my > suggestion. Read on... I don't think I did. It was simply to get rid of a rule that currently does nothing to mke rom for a new one and get us out of a bind. > First, WE are not in a bind, PB is in a bind. Voting his prop down is the MOST straightforward solution. Then the next player (quite ironically Fritz) will be left to amend whatever rules and solve his own problem. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs > > the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is > > amended. > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against 315. > Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against because > you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the precedense issue. > No, you were not wrong. that was entirely correct, I thought you might say that, but I tried to avoid length explaining myself. Let me restate 315 currently does absolutely nothing (but fill up the rules --another great irony--and a good reason not to pass it. But it has a POSSIBLE effect. If 209 is amended in anyway, 315 will govern the limits on rule numbers in the manner expressed by the will of the players. Therefore, I do not think it can be eliminated without the expressed will of a vote. > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything > > about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this > > proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take > > precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in fact > two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This clearly > shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. I thought you might say this, I think there is an argument here, but one that is unnecessary unless PB decides to go that way. If you are right, then simply voting down PB's prop is the only solution. > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would > > work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this > > turn. > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books > > because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > discussion/objection issue. > O your right I did read this wrong, I thought you wanted to take out 315 because it did not do what we wanted it to do. That makes most of this moot. But I will send it anyway for your entertainment, > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, but > why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of changing > the rules to meet the intention? > --e > > > > > What do you think? > > > > pk > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > intention of The > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error > > > on > > the > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include > > > the language necessary to make the amendment. An overwealming 80% > > > (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > the proposal > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > remaining 20% > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the > > rule had no > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 15:04:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:04:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 44840 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:04:30 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:24:49 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:17:01 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:16:52 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:16:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Official objection to Official Rule Change Suggestion Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <9bq2u1+k11r@eGroups.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <061584924221441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I now hereby officially object. I am afraid I have to again object on the grounds that I did not vote with a misunderstanding. You cannot infer my actions on somethin that did not take place, a vote on an amendment, from my expressed reasons. Correcting a rule to solve a current problem ( in a mistake we detected long ago) does not seem to me to be a valid use of your correction rule. Sorry, but I think we need to deal with this another way (I have made my suggestions) I respectfully object. pk On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of my > suggestion. Read on... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs > > the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is > > amended. > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against 315. > Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against because > you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the precedense issue. > > > > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything > > about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this > > proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take > > precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in fact > two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This clearly > shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would > > work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this > > turn. > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books > > because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > discussion/objection issue. > > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, but > why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of changing > the rules to meet the intention? > --e > > > > > What do you think? > > > > pk > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > intention of The > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error > > > on > > the > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include > > > the language necessary to make the amendment. An overwealming 80% > > > (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > the proposal > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > remaining 20% > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the > > rule had no > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 15:06:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:06:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 5706 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:06:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:06:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:06:32 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA03901 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:06:32 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:09:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <05fb55417221441ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" Dammit, Paul!!! The supreme irony is that I started to reply to THAT without reading the whole thing first too. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! OK, better now. So, to clarify, you agree with the Official Rule Change? --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 6:10 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of my > > suggestion. Read on... > > I don't think I did. It was simply to get rid of a rule that currently > does nothing to mke rom for a new one and get us out of a bind. > > > First, WE are not in a bind, PB is in a bind. Voting his prop down > is the MOST straightforward solution. > Then the next player (quite ironically Fritz) will be left to amend > whatever rules and solve his own problem. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs > > > the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is > > > amended. > > > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against 315. > > Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against because > > you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the precedense issue. > > > No, you were not wrong. that was entirely correct, I thought you > might say that, but I tried to avoid length explaining myself. Let me > restate > > 315 currently does absolutely nothing (but fill up the rules --another > great irony--and a good reason not to pass it. > But it has a POSSIBLE effect. If 209 is amended in anyway, 315 > will govern the limits on rule numbers in the manner expressed by > the will of the players. > Therefore, I do not think it can be eliminated without the expressed > will of a vote. > > > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything > > > about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this > > > proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take > > > precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. > > > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in fact > > two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This clearly > > shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > I thought you might say this, I think there is an argument here, but > one that is unnecessary unless PB decides to go that way. > If you are right, then simply voting down PB's prop is the only > solution. > > > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would > > > work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this > > > turn. > > > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books > > > because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > > discussion/objection issue. > > > > O your right I did read this wrong, I thought you wanted to take out > 315 because it did not do what we wanted it to do. That makes > most of this moot. But I will send it anyway for your entertainment, > > > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, but > > why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of changing > > the rules to meet the intention? > > --e > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > pk > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > > intention of The > > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error > > > > on > > > the > > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include > > > > the language necessary to make the amendment. An overwealming 80% > > > > (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > > the proposal > > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > > remaining 20% > > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the > > > rule had no > > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 15:12:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:11:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 16754 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:11:55 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:32:14 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:24:26 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:24:09 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:24:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <05fb55417221441ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0616e1432221441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" maybe inside responses are not so great after all. On 20 Apr 01, at 18:09, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > Dammit, Paul!!! The supreme irony is that I started to reply to THAT > without reading the whole thing first too. > > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! > > OK, better now. So, to clarify, you agree with the Official Rule > Change? > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 6:10 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of > > > my suggestion. Read on... > > > > I don't think I did. It was simply to get rid of a rule that > > currently does nothing to mke rom for a new one and get us out of a > > bind. > > > > > First, WE are not in a bind, PB is in a bind. Voting his prop down > > is the MOST straightforward solution. Then the next player (quite > > ironically Fritz) will be left to amend whatever rules and solve his > > own problem. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM To: > > > > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: > > > > Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It > > > > governs the number of rules that can be proposed in the case > > > > that 209 is amended. > > > > > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against > > > 315. Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against > > > because you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the > > > precedense issue. > > > > > No, you were not wrong. that was entirely correct, I thought you > > might say that, but I tried to avoid length explaining myself. Let > > me restate > > > > 315 currently does absolutely nothing (but fill up the rules > > --another great irony--and a good reason not to pass it. But it has > > a POSSIBLE effect. If 209 is amended in anyway, 315 will govern the > > limits on rule numbers in the manner expressed by the will of the > > players. Therefore, I do not think it can be eliminated without the > > expressed will of a vote. > > > > > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying > > > > anything about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment > > > > clause to this proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 > > > > would take precedence. I said this once before, but now would > > > > be the time. > > > > > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in > > > fact two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This > > > clearly shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > > > I thought you might say this, I think there is an argument here, but > > one that is unnecessary unless PB decides to go that way. If you are > > right, then simply voting down PB's prop is the only solution. > > > > > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this > > > > would work even though the new state of affairs would not govern > > > > this turn. > > > > > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the > > > > books because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > > > > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > > > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > > > discussion/objection issue. > > > > > > > O your right I did read this wrong, I thought you wanted to take out > > 315 because it did not do what we wanted it to do. That makes most > > of this moot. But I will send it anyway for your entertainment, > > > > > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, > > > but why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of > > > changing the rules to meet the intention? > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > > > intention of The > > > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an > > > > > error on > > > > the > > > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not > > > > > include the language necessary to make the amendment. An > > > > > overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > > > the proposal > > > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > > > remaining 20% > > > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because > > > > > the > > > > rule had no > > > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Fri Apr 20 15:12:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:12:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 17275 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:12:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (64.29.96.13) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:12:13 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [209.73.237.163]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA04255 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:12:12 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Officially OT reply to "Official objection to Official Rule Change Suggestion" Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:14:41 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <061584924221441ISWEBNT@d...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" moot point, but: THAT WAS MY FRIGGIN POINT!!! You were the only one who understood that it _wasn't_ an amendment, and later you stated that you may have voted differently if it was an amendment to 209. I respect your second point, and by my rule, the matter's officially dead. Sorry Pat, but so's your proposal. --e > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 6:17 PM > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [scatterbrains] Official objection to Official Rule Change > Suggestion > > > I now hereby officially object. > > I am afraid I have to again object on the grounds that I did not vote > with a misunderstanding. You cannot infer my actions on > somethin that did not take place, a vote on an amendment, from my > expressed reasons. > > Correcting a rule to solve a current problem ( in a mistake we > detected long ago) does not seem to me to be a valid use of your > correction rule. > > Sorry, but I think we need to deal with this another way (I have > made my suggestions) > > I respectfully object. > pk > > On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of my > > suggestion. Read on... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM > > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It governs > > > the number of rules that can be proposed in the case that 209 is > > > amended. > > > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against 315. > > Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against because > > you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the precedense issue. > > > > > > > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying anything > > > about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment clause to this > > > proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 would take > > > precedence. I said this once before, but now would be the time. > > > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in fact > > two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This clearly > > shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > > > > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this would > > > work even though the new state of affairs would not govern this > > > turn. > > > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the books > > > because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > > discussion/objection issue. > > > > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, but > > why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of changing > > the rules to meet the intention? > > --e > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > pk > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" wrote: > > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > > intention of The > > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error > > > > on > > > the > > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include > > > > the language necessary to make the amendment. An overwealming 80% > > > > (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > > the proposal > > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > > remaining 20% > > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the > > > rule had no > > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 15:21:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 36983 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta3 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:21:49 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:42:08 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:34:20 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:34:10 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:34:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Officially OT reply to "Official objection to Official Rule Change Suggestion" Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <061584924221441ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <060c30842221441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" > may have Patrick, I still think making it an amendment to 209 would be legal. I have in mind only "This proposal is an amendment to Rule 209" No other language about rule numbers. I think it is at leat worth discussing. I will remain silent until PB speaks to this issue, its your call. From pkirklan@e... Fri Apr 20 15:39:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 20 Apr 2001 22:39:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 73078 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2001 22:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dom198.dom.edu) (207.56.177.198) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:39:08 -0000 Received: from email.dom.edu ([207.56.176.100]) by dom198.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:59:27 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by email.dom.edu (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:51:38 CST Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.47); 20 Apr 01 17:51:32 CST Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:51:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: OT explanation to Eug Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <061584924221441ISWEBNT@d...> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: pkirklan@e... Message-ID: <0609c2759221441ISWEBNT@d...> From: "Paul Kirkland" I don't think I am misunderstanding, but simply taking shortcuts in explaining myself. I understand that your point was that there was a general consensus on amending 209. But a general consensus does not a rule make. All of our rules govern how rules are made, and there has not been a legal vote on amending 209. The only legally recognized manner of expressing our will is through a vote, and simply stating what we wanted the rule we voted on to mean is not sufficient to change them. The primary activity of the game is the process of writing and revising clear and effective rules. The fact that we voted on two different things means we have not had a "legal" expression of our will on the matter (whether or not we think the same on the matter is irrelevant and it remains technically unknown) Your correction rule seems to me to be designed for correcting mistakes, not making necessary changes in rules to deal with problems as they arise. I apologize if this is irritating, but I am not trying to do anything but interpret the rules. (Being legalitic seems appropriate when there is nothing but rules) I hope this explanation helps. On 20 Apr 01, at 18:14, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > moot point, but: > THAT WAS MY FRIGGIN POINT!!! You were the only one who understood > that it > _wasn't_ an amendment, and later you stated that you may have voted > differently if it was an amendment to 209. > I respect your second point, and by my rule, the matter's officially > dead. > Sorry Pat, but so's your proposal. > --e > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Kirkland [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 6:17 PM > > To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [scatterbrains] Official objection to Official Rule Change > > Suggestion > > > > > > I now hereby officially object. > > > > I am afraid I have to again object on the grounds that I did not > > vote > > with a misunderstanding. You cannot infer my actions on > > somethin that did not take place, a vote on an amendment, from my > > expressed reasons. > > > > Correcting a rule to solve a current problem ( in a mistake we > > detected long ago) does not seem to me to be a valid use of your > > correction rule. > > > > Sorry, but I think we need to deal with this another way (I have > > made my suggestions) > > > > I respectfully object. > > pk > > > > On 20 Apr 01, at 16:08, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > > > > > All interresting and valid points, but you missed the intention of > > > my suggestion. Read on... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: pkirklan@e... [mailto:pkirklan@e...] > > > > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 3:33 PM To: > > > > scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [scatterbrains] Re: > > > > Official Rule Change Suggestion > > > > > > > > > > > > This is NOT yet an official objection, > > > > and it is going to sound a little legalistic > > > > > > > > > > > > but it is not technically true that 315 has NO effect. It > > > > governs the number of rules that can be proposed in the case > > > > that 209 is amended. > > > > > > I attributed "No effect" to you as the reason you voted against > > > 315. Was I wrong? It was my understanding that you voted against > > > because you saw the legal bind we're in now. At least the > > > precedense issue. > > > > > > > > > > > I would argue that 209 can be amended without specifying > > > > anything about rule numbers. I.e., PB could add an amendment > > > > clause to this proposal. That would renumber 209 and then 315 > > > > would take precedence. I said this once before, but now would > > > > be the time. > > > > > > I would argue that replacing 209 with an unrelated proposal is in > > > fact two rule changes, a repeal and a new rule proposal. This > > > clearly shouldn't bew done, and is arguable illegal. > > > > > > > > > > > Because 209 is written regarding the existence of rules, this > > > > would work even though the new state of affairs would not govern > > > > this turn. > > > > > > > > At the exact moment the rule was enacted, 209 would be amended. > > > > > > > > To do this we need 315 to stay on the books. > > > > Accordingly, even if we do not do this, 315 should stay on the > > > > books because it does have a POSSIBLE effect. > > > > > > YES- Leave 315, but remove 209, as was the intent of FH when he > > > proposed it. Sorry to leave everyone with such a sticky > > > discussion/objection issue. > > > > > > As I said at the onset, you have interresting and valid points, > > > but why go through the gymnastics when there's a clear method of > > > changing the rules to meet the intention? > > > --e > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > pk > > > > > > > > --- In scatterbrains@y..., "Eugene Ventimiglia" > > > > wrote: > > > > > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the > > > > intention of The > > > > > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an > > > > > error on > > > > the > > > > > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not > > > > > include the language necessary to make the amendment. An > > > > > overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on > > > > the proposal > > > > > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The > > > > remaining 20% > > > > > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because > > > > > the > > > > rule had no > > > > > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From bernardo@c... Mon Apr 30 07:52:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: bernardo@c... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_2); 30 Apr 2001 14:52:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 47689 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 14:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2001 14:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outland.cyberwar.com) (208.17.174.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 14:52:02 -0000 Received: from computer (ppp08-01.cyberwar.com [208.17.168.211]) by outland.cyberwar.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f3UEpxv87046 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c0d184$f7fb3e60$d3a811d0@computer> To: References: Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Official Rule Change Suggestion Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:50:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Patrick D. Bernardo" Umm, what happened with this? I'm so busy with school work and stuff that I haven't had time to keep up with any of this stuff. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Ventimiglia To: Scatterbrains Nomic Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 1:19 PM Subject: [scatterbrains] Official Rule Change Suggestion > I suggest that Rule 209 be removed from play. It was the intention of The > author of 315 that it amend and replace 209, but due to an error on the > proponant's part, the final form of the proposal did not include the > language necessary to make the amendment. > An overwealming 80% (count 'em!) of the population voted on the proposal > under the mistaken understanding that it would amend 209. The remaining 20% > (namely Paul) stated publicly that his objection was because the rule had no > effect, realizing that it did not amend 209. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From eventi@n... Thu Apr 18 07:19:43 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: eventi@n... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 18 Apr 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 62747 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nyic.com) (12.149.214.213) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2002 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from vlad (vlad.nyic.com [12.149.214.203]) by mail.nyic.com (8.9.0/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21970 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:19:42 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Proposal # 320 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:20:47 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 In-Reply-To: <001d01c0d184$f7fb3e60$d3a811d0@computer> From: "Eugene Ventimiglia" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=54696435 X-Yahoo-Profile: eventi I propose that Fritz tell the rest of us what the F@#*&$ his boss is thinking... From pkirklan@e... Thu Apr 18 17:21:59 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: Pkirklan@e... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 19 Apr 2002 00:21:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 45638 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2002 19:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2002 19:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO domin2k.dom.edu) (207.56.176.4) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2002 19:48:14 -0000 Received: from EMAIL.DOM.EDU ([10.0.0.100]) by domin2k.dom.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:48:09 -0500 Received: from EMAIL/SpoolDir by EMAIL.DOM.EDU (Mercury 1.48); 18 Apr 02 14:52:13 -0600 Received: from SpoolDir by EMAIL (Mercury 1.48); 18 Apr 02 14:52:05 -0600 Organization: Dominican University To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:51:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: [scatterbrains] Proposal # 320 Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <001d01c0d184$f7fb3e60$d3a811d0@computer> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Return-Path: Pkirklan@e... Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2002 19:48:09.0199 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7443FF0:01C1E711] From: "Paul Kirkland" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60277383 X-Yahoo-Profile: frednn2001 I do not know if our record is still intact, but if so somewhere there is an attachment that includes a Dear concerned citizen letter/position paper on ANWR. As I remember it someone was pretty annoyed at the time. P.S. I would certainly be interested in any explanation of his hystrionics from yesterday as well. PPS If you are going to push irresponsible positions with disingenous tactics, couldn't you at least be a little more subtle. On 18 Apr 02, at 10:20, Eugene Ventimiglia wrote: > I propose that Fritz tell the rest of us what the F@#*&$ his boss is > thinking... > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money > 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/AtRolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~ > -> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > scatterbrains-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From nnndndsjjs9jd32@y... Sun Apr 21 22:39:18 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: nnndndsjjs9jd32@y... X-Apparently-To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 22 Apr 2002 05:39:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 53346 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2002 05:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2002 05:39:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2002 05:39:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2002 05:39:17 -0000 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 05:39:16 -0000 To: scatterbrains@yahoogroups.com Subject: a great site Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 321 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "nnndndsjjs9jd32" X-Originating-IP: 208.49.145.108 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110636681 X-Yahoo-Profile: nnndndsjjs9jd32 Look at this great site I found. I was able to get two credit cards. 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