From Fri Jan 15 01:32:40 1999 Return-Path: Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 32441 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Jan 1999 09:32:40 -0000 Received: from m8.findmail.com (HELO findmail.com) (209.185.96.143) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 09:32:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 13598 invoked by uid 505); 15 Jan 1999 09:32:21 -0000 Date: 15 Jan 1999 09:32:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990115093221.13597.qmail@f...> Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com From: "Duncan Ellis" Subject: Welcome to the l-nomic-d E-Mail Group To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com The discussion lounge for Mornington Nomic, named in honour of the game's founder Kevan Davis. Group Manager: l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com To subscribe, send a message to l-nomic-d-subscribe@egroups.com or go to the e-group's home page at http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d From Fri Jan 15 03:35:08 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 32075 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Jan 1999 11:34:56 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 11:34:56 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03879 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:34:36 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 11:34:36 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA25935; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:34:33 GMT Message-Id: <199901151134.LAA25935@uks447> Date: 15 Jan 99 09:40:01 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: [l-nomic-d] MN: Testing, Testing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a quick test. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Fri Jan 15 04:01:41 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 7149 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Jan 1999 12:01:29 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 12:01:29 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06664 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:01:08 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 12:01:08 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA09035; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:01:03 GMT Message-Id: <199901151201.MAA09035@uks447> Date: 15 Jan 99 09:52:42 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: [l-nomic-d] MN: Testing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And let's try that again, after I've received the joining notice. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Fri Jan 15 06:42:48 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 225 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Jan 1999 14:42:39 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 14:42:39 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA25709 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:42:12 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 14:42:11 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA10931; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:42:08 GMT Message-Id: <199901151442.OAA10931@uks447> Date: 15 Jan 99 12:39:00 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: One More Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At least these seem to be getting through to the home account... -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Fri Jan 15 12:27:51 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 3214 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Jan 1999 20:27:41 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 20:27:41 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA19237 for ; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:27:21 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 15 Jan 1999 20:27:20 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA03583; Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:27:17 GMT Message-Id: <199901152027.UAA03583@uks447> Date: 15 Jan 99 16:36:27 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Fwd: Game States w/e 15/1/99 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_ORCL_31751959_0_0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --=_ORCL_31751959_0_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, it didn't work so I suppose I should send it here instead. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com --=_ORCL_31751959_0_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 content-type: message/rfc822 Date: 15 Jan 99 12:27:15 From:"Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To:MCNomic Subject:MN: Game States w/e 15/1/99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just on the off chance that this gets through when nothing else seems to have done for the last couple of days, here are the current game states. As of 12:32 GMT 15/1/99 the game states were as follows: Game List Rules To Play Last Move ------------------------------------------------------ 11 MN-L Long Jon 11-January-1999 15:13 12 MN-C Vanilla PaulWay 15-January-1999 12:20 [1] 13 MN-G Flag not in play 14 MN-B CF 84 dave 11-January-1999 16:09 15 MN-R Rutts dave 12-January-1999 08:01 [1] a bit cheeky, since I've only just sent my move. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle --=_ORCL_31751959_0_0-- From Mon Jan 18 04:55:15 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 17398 invoked by uid 7770); 18 Jan 1999 12:55:10 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 12:55:10 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA07190 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:54:48 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 12:54:48 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA11167; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:54:44 GMT Message-Id: <199901181254.MAA11167@uks447> Date: 18 Jan 99 12:27:32 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Emergency Proposal 29 - Passed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've just remembered - one of the messages which was lost to the foobar list was my notification of what happened with EP 29. It has been uploaded onto the web site, though. Just for the record though, here is the summary - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raised by Dunx, 17/12/98 Reissued by Dunx, 12/01/99 (due to uncertain status) PaulWay voted FOR - it passed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Mon Jan 18 04:55:26 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 17423 invoked by uid 7770); 18 Jan 1999 12:55:19 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 12:55:19 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA07224 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:54:57 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 18 Jan 1999 12:54:57 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA11251; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:54:52 GMT Message-Id: <199901181254.MAA11251@uks447> Date: 18 Jan 99 12:29:16 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Sun Arise Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Players: These are some of my thoughts following on from dave's suggestion about reorganising the ruleset. I apologise in advance for the lecturing tone and the length, but I'm just trying to get a handle on things. First of all, we need to identify why we might want to reorganise the ruleset. The oft-stated goal of this game is to produce a set of rules for MC, and to achieve that goal satisfactorily the ruleset should be readable straight through, in a similar way to the rules for a standard game (board game, roleplaying game, whatever). What is it that makes such rulesets readable? Several things, I think [MN comments are bracketed thus]: a) progressiveness - the basic concepts are always explained first [I reckon this is one of the most fundamental conflicts between the 'readable ruleset' goal and the way a Nomic is played, since Rules tend to get added to a Nomic ruleset in time order. [The use of sections in the MN ruleset ameliorates this effect somewhat. Also, an effort has been made to address this further with the out-of-sequence rule ordering in some sections, but if anything that just makes things *more* confusing. [No renumbering Proposal has ever, to my knowledge, been implemented.] b) grouping - similar concepts are clumped together [we already have something like this within MN with the sectional format, but could this be improved? Made more flexible, perhaps?] c) language - most games aim to use the simplest appropriate language in order to explain concepts clearly and unambiguously. [the language in MN can be a bit high-flown, not to mention inconsistent in style (which is largely inevitable in any multi- authored document). I know I'm as guilty of prolixity as anyone, but there are reasons behind it - trying to cover all the angles is one, and attempting to offer hooks for extension is another.] d) cross-referencing - related ideas may have links between them. [The HTML version of the ruleset goes some way to addressing this, but doesn't deal with exclusions and exceptions to a rule. [Unfortunately, explicit cross-referencing is anathema to a Nomic ruleset, since every single link from one Rule to another needs to be maintained, which places an additional burden on the Proposer.] e) indexing - perhaps not for the simpler board games, but if you look at the rules for an RPG or wargame you will find an index. [The closest analogue we have to this in MN is the series of Action tables, and while these are a very useful, they are incomplete (only covering Actions) and quite difficult to use (since you have to know which phase the Action operates in beforehand). [An index has the same issues associated with it as cross-referencing, unless the index is generated (much as the HTML ruleset is).] f) duplication - if an idea is important, it may be explained in brief where it is significant with a more detailed explanation elsewhere; or vital information may be summarised in a quick reference appendix. [The whole way in which MN is written is intended to eliminate duplication, since duplication requires maintenance.] How we actually might go about restructuring the existing ruleset to try and achieve these goals is beyond me at the moment. The stylistic issues can only really be addressed by sensitive copy editing (particularly ticklish in a Nomic context because of the importance of rule interpretation), but I think we can probably modify the structure of the ruleset to make such changes easier to accommodate. The following structural ideas occur: 1. turn the ruleset into a database - I believe William Li did this with the Thring ruleset when he was Speaker of that Nomic. Basically, this approach means that the Ruleset as distributed is never the master version, but is generated by reading through the records in the database. The major advantage of this strategy is that renumbering, cross-referencing, and indexing all become relatively trivial. The disadvantage is lack of transferrability: look at what happened to Thring when William left the game (AFAIK it's still dead - any more active Thring watchers out there care to correct me? Paul?) There are actually lots and lots of counter-arguments to this approach, and it would be tremendously fun to go through them, but then again it's not worth the time. 2. turn the ruleset into native HTML - Kevan had a go at this a while ago, and I think it was generally agreed that it didn't work terribly well (this is distinct from the HTML ruleset which is currently published - that is generated from the text file version, and will be again as soon as I work out to get the BASIC program which does the conversion to work again). The primary perceived weakness at the time seemed to be that each section had its own file. This made downloading and printing harder. But possibly more significant is that HTML is not one language - it has changed over time, and different browsers work in different ways. At least text files are fairly universal. 3. split the ruleset - this is something dave mentioned, and obviously has a resonance with the HTML ruleset idea, but splitting into multiple text files makes more sense if we isolate the Nomic and MC components. What I would suggest would be three sections: a contents table, the Nomic mechanics, and the MC rules themselves. Any generated index pages (see below) wouldn't be considered as part of the ruleset proper. 4. write more indexing tools - effectively, this is an extension of the current text->HTML conversion, where we could write an indexing tool that generates one or more indices of the ruleset. I was thinking of two different indices - one for the text ruleset which lists section numbers, and one for the HTML ruleset which provides accurate bookmark references. The main issue with automatic indexing tools is that they do not know which are the important occurrences of particular words. 5. promote the tables - group the Action, emporium and token tables to make them easier to find, and expand them to provide better indexing into the ruleset. I suppose the answer (as far as there can be a single answer at all) is some combination of all of these. What do people think? -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From duncan@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Jan 19 13:44:40 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 31023 invoked by uid 7770); 19 Jan 1999 21:39:15 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 1999 21:39:15 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 102irj-0001JD-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:39:15 +0000 From: duncan@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:33:13 GMT Message-ID: <36a6f704.2528864@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 37 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- MORNINGTON NOMIC Proposals for Voting on in Week Thirty-Seven -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Proposal 581 - Frozen P's [Multiple] { Comment: This is an attempt to implement the moratorium state that dave = suggested. Given that the purpose of such a moratorium is to prevent gross Ruleset changes so we can get on and play test, there are to my mind two ways = of introducing such a moratorium: 1. ban all Proposals, relying on EPs to fix the ruleset 2. ban new Rules only, preventing only new features but allowing the normal process for ruleset fixes. I've gone for the second option, since this has a lower impact on which parts of the ruleset have to be suspended (Kudos can be kept active, = for example), and also permits the new Proposal type described below. Note that this Proposal does not cause a moratorium to be declared immediately, it merely introduces the mechanism for such a thing. } [Amendment: The Ice Age Starts Here] Amend Rule 0.4.1 (Proposals) by adding the following Proposal types: * Freeze - To place Mornington Nomic in the Frozen state. * Unfreeze - To place Mornington Nomic in the Fluid state. [Enactment: The Ice Man Cometh] Mornington Nomic shall have an overriding state which may be either Fluid or Frozen. The current value of this state shall be published on the Mornington Nomic web site by the Speaker. The effect of these state values is to control which Proposal types are valid, as follows: * Fluid - all Proposal types are valid except for Unfreeze. * Frozen - Enactment, Action, Special Ruleset and Freeze Proposals are = not valid. If a currently invalid Proposal type is contained within a Multiple Proposal, the whole Multiple Proposal shall be considered invalid. This Rule takes precedence over Rule 0.4.1 in specifying which types of Proposals may be submitted. [Enactment: Ground State] On enactment of this Rule, Mornington Nomic Nomic shall be placed in the state of "Fluid". This Rule shall then repeal itself. { Comment: Anybody care to guess what Gaseous might mean? } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Proposal 582 - Overcharged [Enactment] In Turin '57, the Rules for and effects of Charge shall only be applied if Current information (as defined in Rule 1.19.1) is available for the nominated Map. Otherwise, all references to Charge and Current shall be ignored. { Comment: This should (rather obviously) be placed in the Turin '57 Special Ruleset. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Proposal 583 - It's Pining For the Fjords [Multiple] [Amendment: It Has Shuffled Off This Mortal Coil] Amend Rule 0.10.1 (The Lounges) such that the address of the Discussion Lounge is changed to read thus: " The Discussion Lounge - l-nomic-d@eGroups.com" =46urther, change the last paragraph to read thus: "To subscribe to any of the Lounges, send a blank email to "l-nomic--subscribe@egroups.com", where "" is the appropriate letter." [Amendment: It Has Joined the Choir Invisible] Amend Rule 1.1.2 (A New Game) to add the following text: "If a New Game does not achieve the conditions required for it to begin, and it does not seem likely that it will in the near future, then the Speaker may declare that Game to be void and is permitted to start a fresh Game in its place." { Comment: Inspired, it will come as no surprise to hear, by Game 13 and it's long lingering beginning. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From duncan@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Jan 19 13:44:54 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 31013 invoked by uid 7770); 19 Jan 1999 21:39:14 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 1999 21:39:14 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 102irf-0001JD-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:39:12 +0000 From: duncan@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:33:11 GMT Message-ID: <36a5f658.2356947@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 37: Voting Results on Week 36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie miKi Paul Riff - KUDOS --------------------------------------------------------------- Initial: 1 38 3 0 0 16 12 16 Halved: 0 19 1 0 6 8 --------------------------------------------------------------- FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 -0 I I -0 +0 Decisiveness: +0 +0 +0 +0 n n +0 +0 [a] Voting/Own: -0 -0 -0 -0 a a -0 -0 c c=20 EP FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 +0 t t +0 +0 EP AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 -0 i i -0 -0 Finger/Pulse: +0 +0 +0 +0 v v +0 +0 e e=20 Award Ceremony: +0 +3 +0 +0 +0 +0 [b] Kudos Gifts +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 --------------------------------------------------------------- This Week: +0 +3 +0 +0 +0 +0 Final Kudos: 0 22 1 0 6 8 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [a] difficult to be decisive when there have been no Proposals to Vote on, but I am following precedent. [b] Ruttsborough Award - none IMCS Clarity Award - none CAMREC Cleanup Award - none Mrs Trellis Award - none Clever Bear Award - none For E's A Jolly Good Fellow - Dunx (automatic) Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Wed Jan 20 10:33:31 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 3608 invoked by uid 7770); 20 Jan 1999 18:33:22 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 18:33:22 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA07411 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:33:22 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 20 Jan 1999 18:33:22 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA08332; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:33:19 GMT Message-Id: <199901201833.SAA08332@uks447> Date: 20 Jan 99 16:27:35 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Alternative Game Structures Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been having a few thoughts about other ways we could play Mornington Nomic, in particular about some Special Rulesets which strike at the core of the Game - how we move Pieces around. In the beginning, a fundamental decision was taken about the MC part of Mornington Nomic: that each player should have one piece, and that this Piece should follow the Lines on the Map (Y1W1, Proposal 009 - Keeping The Piece). Despite all the innovations with Actions, Tokens, Charge, and all the other gubbins that has accreted around the Game, this primary assertion has remained unchanged (reworded, perhaps, but not changed). So we have a game where one piece moves around the map in a manner not dissimilar to games such as Ludo or Monopoly (in may ways more interesting, to be sure, but not all that fundamentally different). I was wondering what the game would be like if we followed a different leg of the Trousers of Time. A couple of ideas for alternative models - 1. "a bit like Go" - in Go, the player can place pieces ('stones') anywhere on the board, the aim being to form self-sufficient islands of these stones (termed 'armies') - any army which has no free space around it (breathing room, if you will) is removed from the board, those stones being considered to have been captured by your opponent. Go can be viewed as a model of the problem of lines of supply in a military campaign, where an army can only survive if it has some room around it. Could something like this be made to work on the Map? The big disadvantage with a Go-like game is that the current GSD format is inadequate - it would be very easy to end up with a list of all the stations on the Map. I also don't know what the object of the Game might be in this context. Building an arny surronding MC seems a little easy. 2. "a bit like chess" - rather than just one piece, each Player is given several, which all start the Game on the Map. Different Pieces could have different powers (only knights could Strile, for example). The object of the Game becomes either to move your chief piece to MC, or to capture your opponents' chief pieces. 3. leaving a trail - Moves are as currently, but each Move leaves a Piece at the previous location. There could be rules on line of sight between Pieces of the same Player, which could be disrupted by other Players' Pieces and such things as Blocks (I don't know where discontinuous moves such as Straddle or Wild fit in here). I suppose this could be a way of implementing the Go idea - each Move is persistent and when there is line of sight then those Pieces are part of the same army, but when a discontinuous Play breaks line of sight or it is disrupted by another Player's actions then a new Army is formed. What do people think? Any other ideas? Or is this just an example of the kind of thing that any moratorium is intended to prevent? -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Wed Jan 20 18:15:38 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 32171 invoked by uid 7770); 21 Jan 1999 02:14:56 -0000 Received: from dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au (203.25.1.208) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 02:14:56 -0000 Received: by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au; id MAA00729; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:14:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from aricrmntp001.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au(147.132.69.28) by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma000539; Thu, 21 Jan 99 12:14:32 +1000 Received: by ARICRMNTP001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:14:31 +1000 Message-ID: <32C1DEF30B54D211A3DE00A0C9D34584428E43@PIBCRMEXH001> From: "Wayper, Paul" To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:11:28 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: Alternative Game Structures Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: Dunx (Duncan Ellis) [SMTP:DELLIS@U...] > Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 2:28 AM > To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com > Subject: MN: Alternative Game Structures > > What do people think? Any other ideas? > One other possibility is that you have a main Piece, and subsidiary objects ('pegs' comes to mind) which you can use as part of your play. I have to admit, though, I prefer the idea of making Mornomic act like the ISIHAC team and York-style MC over making another completely different game which is related to MC only by playing on the LU. I'll admit, I'm slack in not proposing more things and fulfilling my first objective, but I'd rather just play at the moment - I'm rather happy with the idea of getting used to the ruleset as it is now rather than trying to play in the face of constantly shifting objectives. (Mutters something vaguely intelligble about basing one game's strategy on the use of the Token Running action which someone then repealed, despite my vote against. Or something.) As ever, Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer _____________________________________________________________________ SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames. If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Thu Jan 21 02:54:52 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 8269 invoked by uid 7770); 21 Jan 1999 10:54:44 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 10:54:44 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21446 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:54:34 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 10:54:34 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA08685; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:54:31 GMT Message-Id: <199901211054.KAA08685@uks447> Date: 21 Jan 99 10:38:39 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UKUNIX2.UK.ORACLE.COM:l-nomic-d-return-9-dellis=uk.oracle.com@returns.egroups.com's message of 21-Jan-99 02:11 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Re: Alternative Game Structures Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> What do people think? Any other ideas? >> >One other possibility is that you have a main Piece, and subsidiary objects >('pegs' comes to mind) which you can use as part of your play. That chimes quite nicely with some of my own ideas - a kind of mix between the chess and 'trail' approaches. Interesting. > ... I'd rather >just play at the moment - I'm rather happy with the idea of getting used to >the ruleset as it is now rather than trying to play in the face of >constantly shifting objectives. That's fair enough. If you want a relatively static ruleset for a bit, I would suggest voting for the moratorium proposal (Frozen P's). What I was suggesting, though, was a rather more radical series of Special Rulesets rather than a complete restructuring of the As to the relationship between MN as it is now and ISIHAC/York... well yes, but yet and at the same time, no - I don't think there is necessarily any consensus about how many pieces are on the board under the control of a particular player. In fact, I would suggest that some of the more complex token loading and logic map manoeuvres would be unplayable in anything except a multi-piece world. Still, it sounds like I should restrict my ventures along the wilder shores of game mechanics for the moment. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From David Kenning Thu Jan 21 12:14:40 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 24383 invoked by uid 7770); 21 Jan 1999 20:14:37 -0000 Received: from bizet.which.co.uk (143.41.16.1) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 1999 20:14:37 -0000 Received: by bizet.which.co.uk; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA08900; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:24:59 GMT Message-Id: From: David Kenning To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:58:23 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: alternative game types Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >1. "a bit like Go" This is a very interesting idea. I've never played Go, but I'm vaguely familiar with the idea of it, and I think it offers some very interesting possibilities. Perhaps something along Risk lines would be more feasible -- starting with a small army on an outlying station and building and spreading towards MC (or any other specified goal). And instead of taking over groups of countries, you'd take over lines... >Go can be viewed as a model of the problem of lines of supply in a >military campaign, where an army can only survive if it has some room >around it. Could something like this be made to work on the Map? I think it could, but (to state the obvious) it would be difficult. >2. "a bit like chess" Again, a very interesting idea. You could even have things like pawn promotion on reaching zone 6 (very tricky when pawns have a maximum LV of 1), while rooks (or their equivalent) would be able to move any number of places in a single turn, but only on a single line..... Obviously, the piece types and move options would have to be thought out very carefully. I think ultimately you'd probably have to treat this as a chess variant, rather than a MC variant. >3. leaving a trail This idea reminds me of that old arcade game (Worms?) where you have to chop off your opponent's tail by cunning manoeuvering. I suppose instead of adding their tail to your own, you could get points and their tail would be destroyed, and of course, a head on collision would be disastrous. >What do people think? Any other ideas? How about Pacman MC? One player is Pacman, the others are ghosts. You'd have to do away with most position changing actions, and modify stuff about LV (maybe have fixed LV). The object would be to travel round the board collecting apples from various points, the final apple being located at MC. Hmm, maybe a bit complicated. >Or is this just an example of the kind of thing that any moratorium >is intended to prevent? Well, maybe this isn't the time and place to start introducing big new ideas, but I'm very interested anyway. Another problem is the small number of active players at the moment, which would probably make these variations either uninteresting or unplayable (witness game 13), but it's certainly worth thinking about for the future. dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Fri Jan 22 04:50:12 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 16677 invoked by uid 7770); 22 Jan 1999 12:50:06 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 1999 12:50:06 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA28612; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:49:58 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 22 Jan 1999 12:49:58 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA27887; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:49:55 GMT Message-Id: <199901221249.MAA27887@uks447> Date: 22 Jan 99 12:00:49 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic@f..., l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Game States w/e 22/1/99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As of 12:00 GMT 22/1/99 the game states were as follows: Game List Rules To Play Last Move ------------------------------------------------------ 11 MN-L Long PaulWay 18-January-1999 13:52 [1] 12 MN-C Vanilla Drone 20-January-1999 06:19 [2] 13 MN-G Flag not in play 14 MN-B CF 84 dave 20-January-1999 09:46 15 MN-R Rutts dave 22-January-1999 02:51 [1] ... which was a Time Out. Jon has indicated he isn't going to play a Move after all, so it's down to PaulWay. [2] friend Drone is currently controlled by dave. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Jan 26 12:53:10 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 19656 invoked by uid 7770); 26 Jan 1999 20:50:03 -0000 Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.27) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 1999 20:50:03 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105FQp-0005Rg-00; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:49:56 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic@f..., l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:43:52 GMT Message-ID: <36ae288b.260193@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Week 37 Week End Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not an extension, just a bit of information - the Week ended at 12:00 GMT= today as usual, I just haven't got round to doing the Week End stuff. I'll do it tomorrow, once the haggis bloat has worn off. Cheers. Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Wed Jan 27 14:46:19 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 7428 invoked by uid 7770); 27 Jan 1999 22:46:04 -0000 Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.40) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 22:46:04 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105dij-0007j2-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:46:01 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:39:52 GMT Message-ID: <36af92c6.1980664@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week38: Voting Results on Week 37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- No. Proposal Name F P A Q Result -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- 581 Frozen P's - 1 - 3 Inquorate [a] 582 Holy Smoke, Batman! - 1 2 3 Inquorate 583 Terminal Bore 2 1 - 3 Inquorate -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie miKi Paul Riff -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- 581 (Dunx) - PAS - - - - - - 582 (Dunx) - PAS - - - - - - 583 (Dunx) - PAS - - - - - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie miKi Paul Riff - KUDOS --------------------------------------------------------------- Initial: 0 22 1 0 0 16 6 8 Halved: 0 11 0 3 4 --------------------------------------------------------------- FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 I I I -0 +0 Decisiveness: +0 +0 +0 n n n +0 +0 [b] Voting/Own: -0 -0 -0 a a a -0 -0 c c c EP FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 t t t +0 +0 EP AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 i i i -0 -0 Finger/Pulse: +0 +0 +0 v v v +0 +0 e e e Award Ceremony: +0 +3 +0 +0 +0 [c] Kudos Gifts +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 --------------------------------------------------------------- This Week: +0 +3 +0 +0 +0 +0 Final Kudos: 0 14 0 0 0 16 3 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [a] no Votes were received this Week, with the exception of Dunx who chose to Pass since all the Proposals were eir own. [b] I'm tempted to award myself three Kudos for at least consciously Passing, but that smacks of cheating. [c] Ruttsborough Award - none IMCS Clarity Award - none CAMREC Cleanup Award - none Mrs Trellis Award - none Clever Bear Award - none For E's A Jolly Good Fellow - Dunx (automatic) Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Wed Jan 27 14:46:26 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 7414 invoked by uid 7770); 27 Jan 1999 22:46:03 -0000 Received: from post-11.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.40) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 1999 22:46:03 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 105dih-0007j2-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:45:59 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 22:39:48 GMT Message-ID: <36b193bf.2230669@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 38 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- MORNINGTON NOMIC Proposals for Voting on in Week Thirty-Eight -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- { Speaker's Comment: All the Proposals this Week are reproposals of the Week 37 Proposals (with slightly modified names for the purposes of uniqueness), since no Votes were cast last Week. Also, no new Proposals were received (including from the Speaker emself). If you feel this is an abuse of power, then feel free to raise a Point of Order, but Rule 0.5.4 says: "If a Rule fails to reach Quorum, its Proposer may repropose it = unchanged during the next Nomic Week." } Proposal 584 - Refrozen P's [Multiple] { Comment: This is an attempt to implement the moratorium state that dave = suggested. Given that the purpose of such a moratorium is to prevent gross Ruleset changes so we can get on and play test, there are to my mind two ways = of introducing such a moratorium: 1. ban all Proposals, relying on EPs to fix the ruleset 2. ban new Rules only, preventing only new features but allowing the normal process for ruleset fixes. I've gone for the second option, since this has a lower impact on which parts of the ruleset have to be suspended (Kudos can be kept active, = for example), and also permits the new Proposal type described below. Note that this Proposal does not cause a moratorium to be declared immediately, it merely introduces the mechanism for such a thing. } [Amendment: The Ice Age Starts Here] Amend Rule 0.4.1 (Proposals) by adding the following Proposal types: * Freeze - To place Mornington Nomic in the Frozen state. * Unfreeze - To place Mornington Nomic in the Fluid state. [Enactment: The Ice Man Cometh] Mornington Nomic shall have an overriding state which may be either Fluid or Frozen. The current value of this state shall be published on the Mornington Nomic web site by the Speaker. The effect of these state values is to control which Proposal types are valid, as follows: * Fluid - all Proposal types are valid except for Unfreeze. * Frozen - Enactment, Action, Special Ruleset and Freeze Proposals are = not valid. If a currently invalid Proposal type is contained within a Multiple Proposal, the whole Multiple Proposal shall be considered invalid. This Rule takes precedence over Rule 0.4.1 in specifying which types of Proposals may be submitted. [Enactment: Ground State] On enactment of this Rule, Mornington Nomic Nomic shall be placed in the state of "Fluid". This Rule shall then repeal itself. { Comment: Anybody care to guess what Gaseous might mean? } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Proposal 585 - Overcharged (Again) [Enactment] In Turin '57, the Rules for and effects of Charge shall only be applied if Current information (as defined in Rule 1.19.1) is available for the nominated Map. Otherwise, all references to Charge and Current shall be ignored. { Comment: This should (rather obviously) be placed in the Turin '57 Special Ruleset. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Proposal 586 - It's Still Pining For the Fjords [Multiple] [Amendment: It Has Shuffled Off This Mortal Coil] Amend Rule 0.10.1 (The Lounges) such that the address of the Discussion Lounge is changed to read thus: " The Discussion Lounge - l-nomic-d@eGroups.com" =46urther, change the last paragraph to read thus: "To subscribe to any of the Lounges, send a blank email to "l-nomic--subscribe@egroups.com", where "" is the appropriate letter." [Amendment: It Has Joined the Choir Invisible] Amend Rule 1.1.2 (A New Game) to add the following text: "If a New Game does not achieve the conditions required for it to begin, and it does not seem likely that it will in the near future, then the Speaker may declare that Game to be void and is permitted to start a fresh Game in its place." { Comment: Inspired, it will come as no surprise to hear, by Game 13 and it's long lingering beginning. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Wed Jan 27 21:52:38 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 22359 invoked by uid 7770); 28 Jan 1999 05:52:33 -0000 Received: from storm.twcol.com (204.210.251.99) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 05:52:33 -0000 Received: from [208.169.216.67] (cvl216067.columbus.rr.com [208.169.216.67]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA27093 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:56:32 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: riffraff@m... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:54:42 -0500 To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 38 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I vote Yes for all of them. --Riff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Wed Jan 27 22:03:58 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 26388 invoked by uid 7770); 28 Jan 1999 06:03:52 -0000 Received: from storm.twcol.com (204.210.251.99) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 06:03:52 -0000 Received: from [208.169.216.67] (cvl216067.columbus.rr.com [208.169.216.67]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA27774 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:07:47 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: riffraff@m... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 01:05:57 -0500 To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 38 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Damn. Everyone except Dunx, ignore that post. --Riff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From David Kenning Thu Jan 28 02:19:25 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 5198 invoked by uid 7770); 28 Jan 1999 10:19:20 -0000 Received: from bizet.which.co.uk (143.41.16.1) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 10:19:20 -0000 Received: by bizet.which.co.uk; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA28067; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:29:52 GMT Message-Id: From: David Kenning To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:13:54 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week38: Voting Results on Week 37 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > [a] no Votes were received this Week, with the exception of Dunx who > chose to Pass since all the Proposals were eir own. > apologies for my slackness, but it's been one deadline after another round here this week... dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Thu Jan 28 07:00:37 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 9651 invoked by uid 7770); 28 Jan 1999 15:00:24 -0000 Received: from cask.force9.net (195.166.128.29) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 15:00:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 16611 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 15:01:34 -0000 Received: from relay2.force9.net (195.166.128.25) by cask.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 15:01:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 12083 invoked from network); 28 Jan 1999 14:54:06 -0000 Received: from 462.hiper02.shef.dialup.force9.net (HELO sprout) (195.166.145.206) by relay2.force9.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 1999 14:54:06 -0000 From: "Jefferis" To: Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:00:03 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Subject: MN: Un-idling. Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right. I'm un-idling very shortly (Monday in fact), at which point I'll probably join a few games and propose a few proposals. The Long Game and Capture The Flag look mighty enticing... See you then.. -Graeme. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Mon Feb 1 23:26:02 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 14011 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 07:25:55 -0000 Received: from dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au (203.25.1.208) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 07:25:55 -0000 Received: by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au; id RAA28260; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:25:46 +1000 (EST) Received: from aricrmntp001.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au(147.132.69.28) by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma028230; Tue, 2 Feb 99 17:25:37 +1000 Received: by ARICRMNTP001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:25:27 +1000 Message-ID: <32C1DEF30B54D211A3DE00A0C9D34584428E5A@PIBCRMEXH001> From: "Wayper, Paul" To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:25:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 38 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: riffraff@n... [SMTP:riffraff@n...] Damn. Everyone except Dunx, ignore that post. What post? Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer _____________________________________________________________________ SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames. If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Mon Feb 1 23:31:17 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 15704 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 07:31:07 -0000 Received: from storm.twcol.com (204.210.251.99) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 07:31:07 -0000 Received: from [208.169.219.110] (cvl219110.columbus.rr.com [208.169.219.110]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA21097 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:35:07 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: riffraff@m... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:33:15 -0500 To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 38 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Damn. Everyone except Dunx, ignore that post. > >What post? This one. --Riff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From kevan@s... Tue Feb 2 02:21:13 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 344 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 10:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mojo.myownemail.com) (208.223.204.107) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 10:21:03 -0000 Received: from 208.223.204.107 [208.223.204.107] by mojo.myownemail.com (SMTPD32-4.07) id A1F197C011A; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 04:22:41 CST5EDT From: kevan@s... To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:22:41 -0600 X-Mailer: Allaire ColdFusion Application Server Subject: MN: The Prodigal Returns Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello again. The gap minded, I return; Internet access is once again within my sights, albeit a little woozily - enough to keep an eye on my email, return to the Nomic and probably manage a Game or two. I've nowhere near enough time or space at the moment to even consider taking the Speaker trousers back (and Dunx appears to have been doing a fine, fine job of things in my absence), so I think I'll just shuffle into the back row, screech out a chair and join back in as a Player, seeing what the imminent Week-End brings. Glad to be back, Kevan _____________________________________________ Get your free personalized email address at http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Tue Feb 2 04:11:44 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 5201 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 12:11:29 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 12:11:29 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02730 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:11:22 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 12:11:22 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA09208; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:11:18 GMT Message-Id: <199902021211.MAA09208@uks447> Date: 02 Feb 99 11:03:26 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UKUNIX2.UK.ORACLE.COM:l-nomic-d-return-22-dellis=uk.oracle.com@returns.egroups.com's message of 02-Feb-99 10:22 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Re: The Prodigal Returns Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome back, sir. I hope the odd speck of paint I've added doesn't offend your eye too much, although given your fairly brief absence perhaps I should have thought a little longer about the name of the new Lounge. Still - well meant in any case. See you in the games. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Tue Feb 2 14:57:18 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 23189 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 22:57:09 -0000 Received: from dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au (203.25.1.208) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 22:57:09 -0000 Received: by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au; id IAA28557; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:57:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from aricrmntp001.ari.dpi.qld.gov.au(147.132.69.28) by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma028415; Wed, 3 Feb 99 08:56:46 +1000 Received: by ARICRMNTP001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:56:35 +1000 Message-ID: <32C1DEF30B54D211A3DE00A0C9D34584428E5D@PIBCRMEXH001> From: "Wayper, Paul" To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:56:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: The Prodigal Returns Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: kevan@s... [SMTP:kevan@s...] > So it _is_ somethingorother.com! Kevan, it brings a smile to my face to know how very like you this is - not particularly boring or ordinary, but very typical. And I thought you were being metasyntactic. > The gap minded, I return; [...] so I think I'll just shuffle into the back > row, screech out a chair and join back in as a Player, seeing what the > imminent Week-End brings. > Good to hear from you! Glad you've managed to get back to the wonderful, 75% useless world of email. Have fun, Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer _____________________________________________________________________ SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames. If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 2 15:01:39 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 25662 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 23:01:31 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 23:01:31 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 107oov-0000x3-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:01:25 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:55:07 GMT Message-ID: <36b7815f.321520@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 39: Voting Results for Year Week 38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------------------------------------------------------------- No. Proposal Name F P A Q Result ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 584 Refrozen P's 4 1 - 3 Passes 585 Overcharged (Again) 4 1 - 3 Passes 586 It's Still Pining ... 4 1 - 3 Passes ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 584 (Dunx) FOR PAS - - - FOR - FOR FOR 585 (Dunx) FOR PAS - - - FOR - FOR FOR 586 (Dunx) FOR PAS - - - FOR - FOR FOR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff - KUDOS --------------------------------------------------------------- Initial: 0 14 0 0 0 16 3 4 Halved: 0 7 0 0 1 2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- FOR Votes: +0 +12 +0 +0 +0 +0 AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 I I +0 I -0 +0 Decisiveness: +3 +0 +0 n n +3 n +3 +3 Voting/Own: -0 -0 -0 a a +0 a -0 -0 c c +0 c EP FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 t t +0 t +0 +0 EP AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 i i +0 i -0 -0 Finger/Pulse: +5 +0 +0 v v +5 v +5 +5 e e +0 e Award Ceremony: +0 +3 +0 +0 +0 +0 = [a] Kudos Gifts +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 --------------------------------------------------------------------- This Week: +8 +15 +0 +0 +8 +8 +8 Final Kudos: 8 22 0 0 0 8 16 9 10 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [a] Ruttsborough Award - none IMCS Clarity Award - none CAMREC Cleanup Award - none Mrs Trellis Award - none Clever Bear Award - none For E's A Jolly Good Fellow - Dunx (automatic) Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 2 15:01:39 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 25675 invoked by uid 7770); 2 Feb 1999 23:01:33 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 1999 23:01:33 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 107oow-0000x3-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:01:27 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:55:08 GMT Message-ID: <36b881d0.435116@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2 Week 39 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- MORNINGTON NOMIC Proposals for Voting on in Week Thirty-Nine -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 587 - If Life Gives You Blocks, Make a Blockade [Amendment] Add the following to Rule 1.9.1 "Basic Blocks" "A Player may perform the Action [Blocking ] multiple times in = one turn, but the cost increases by 1 Red token each time. (i.e., the second Block costs 2 Re, the third 3, etc...)" -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 589 - Enter Stage Right [Amendment] In Rule 1.18.2 (Gambits And Their Costs), rename the "The Davis Memorial Manoeuvre" to the "The Davis 'Gap' Memorial Manoeuvre". { Comments : Eerily more appropriate than the original, if you know the background, actually. Hello again, either way. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 590 - Getting to the Point [Multiple] { Comments : An idle muse; to have a points system based on games you've = won, affected by the relative points of your opponents. Maybe an interesting counterpoint to Proposal-slanted Kudos, maybe = not. } 1. What Do Points Mean? [Enactment; 1.1] Each Player has a number of Points, which shall be listed on the = Mornington Nomic Web page, and which may never be less than zero. If a Player has= more Points than any other Player, e is known as the Grandmaster. Whenever a Player Wins a Game of Mornington Crescent, e gains one = Point for every other Player in that Game (other than Team-mates) who had more = Points than em, and also gains two bonus Points. Whenever a Player Loses a Game of Mornington Crescent, e loses one = Point. Upon Enactment of this Rule, Points for each Player shall be = calculated from existing records of completed Games, Games being considered to = have been played in numerical sequence. This paragraph shall then remove = itself from the Ruleset. 2. A Little Help From My Friends [Enactment; 2.6] When a Player Wins the Game, all members of eir Team are also = considered to have Won the Game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 591 - Rewrite (The Title) [Multiple] { Comments : Attempting to coax a little clarity into the ruleset; a way to propose the rewriting of rules, without it counting as = one of your three Proposals. I've often not bothered doing = little (but useful) rewrites because I've had more pressing things = to propose; this seems a nice solution. } 1. Only Twelve Disciples [Amendment] To the list of Proposal Types in Rule 0.4.1 (Proposals), add (to the bottom):- * Rewrite - To rewrite a single Rule, changing style without altering content. 2. It Could Be More Dramatic, If You Know What I Mean [Enactment] A Proposal may be of type "Rewrite", proposing to reword a single Rule= (or part of a single Rule) in a manner which improves its style and = readability, but retains the original implementation and impact of any mechanics in= that Rule. Rewrite Proposals do not count towards a Player's Weekly Proposal = limit, but no more than two Rewrite Proposals may be made by a Player in any one Week. 3. GCSE Coursework [Amendment] In Rule 0.9.1 (Kudos), add the following element:- = +--------------------------------------------------------+---------------= -+ | Event | Kudos = Modifier | = +--------------------------------------------------------+---------------= -+ | Having a "Rewrite" Proposal pass | +3 = | = +--------------------------------------------------------+---------------= -+ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Wed Feb 3 03:12:01 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 10397 invoked by uid 7770); 3 Feb 1999 11:11:58 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 11:11:58 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29255 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:11:51 GMT Received: from uks447.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 3 Feb 1999 11:11:51 UT Received: by uks447 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA05947; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:11:48 GMT Message-Id: <199902031111.LAA05947@uks447> Date: 03 Feb 99 10:07:01 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UKUNIX2.UK.ORACLE.COM:l-nomic-d-return-26-dellis=uk.oracle.com@returns.egroups.com's message of 02-Feb-99 22:55 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2 Week 39 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for my cack handed numbering of Proposals this Week. Proposal 588 is not missing, I just counted wrongly. I'm not going to reissue the Proposals though - there doesn't seem much point. 588 will be marked as void in the results at the next Week End. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Sun Feb 7 21:55:55 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 27695 invoked by uid 7770); 8 Feb 1999 05:55:43 -0000 Received: from dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au (203.25.1.208) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 1999 05:55:43 -0000 Received: by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au; id PAA24984; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:55:32 +1000 (EST) Received: from aricrmntp001.dpi.qld.gov.au(147.132.69.28) by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma024926; Mon, 8 Feb 99 15:55:28 +1000 Received: by ARICRMNTP001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1P0BWNH1>; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:55:12 +1000 Message-ID: <32C1DEF30B54D211A3DE00A0C9D34584428E7A@PIBCRMEXH001> From: "Wayper, Paul" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:55:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Games to play Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Er, can we have an update on the current state-of-play in the games? I think there are lot of them waiting on dave and, despite promises of action, we haven't seen anything from him. Dave, can you send me a copy of your most recent moves, just in case there's a problem with you posting to the lists? Reach me at 'paulway@e...' or at the address in this email. Thanks, Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer _____________________________________________________________________ SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames. If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Mon Feb 8 16:05:29 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 9418 invoked by uid 7770); 9 Feb 1999 00:04:33 -0000 Received: from dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au (203.25.1.208) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 00:04:33 -0000 Received: by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au; id KAA29390; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:04:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from aricrmntp001.dpi.qld.gov.au(147.132.69.28) by dpi-gw.dpi.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma029179; Tue, 9 Feb 99 10:03:59 +1000 Received: by ARICRMNTP001 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1P0BWSGC>; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:03:42 +1000 Message-ID: <32C1DEF30B54D211A3DE00A0C9D34584428E7C@PIBCRMEXH001> From: "Wayper, Paul" To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:01:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: Game States w/c 8/2/99 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tuesday, February 09, 1999 1:17 AM, Dunx (Duncan Ellis) [SMTP:DELLIS@U...] wrote: > 13 MN-G Flag not in play [1] > [1] and shortly to be declared void. How about a Finsbury Option game > instead? Sounds lovely. I'll be in it. Fnord, Paul Wayper -- DPI ITS Computer Systems Officer _____________________________________________________________________ SigClean 1.5a prevents all errors in transcription, transmission, and reception of eMail, destroys sig and email viruses, and stops flames. If it doesn't seem to work, contact me and I'll fix it. (c) 1998 PJW ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Tue Feb 9 05:01:32 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 22671 invoked by uid 7770); 9 Feb 1999 13:01:15 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 13:01:15 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA22685 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:01:02 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 13:01:01 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA27927; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:01:01 GMT Message-Id: <199902091301.NAA27927@uksn82> Date: 09 Feb 99 12:59:10 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Game 13 - Capture the Flag Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As described in Rule 1.1.2 (A New Game), the Speaker may declare a Game void if it does not achieve its starting conditions. Well, Game 13 has been an incipient game of Capture the Flag since 19 November 1998 and it hasn't started yet. I declare Game 13 Capture the Flag to be void. A new Game will be announced for the Game 13 slot shortly. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Tue Feb 9 05:06:42 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 23846 invoked by uid 7770); 9 Feb 1999 13:04:31 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 13:04:31 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23044 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:04:21 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 13:04:21 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA29030; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:04:20 GMT Message-Id: <199902091304.NAA29030@uksn82> Date: 09 Feb 99 13:02:18 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Game 13 Finsbury Option Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Players: A new Game 13 will be starting shortly in the Garden Lounge. Unless there are strenuous objections, it shall be a Finsbury Option Game. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From David Kenning Tue Feb 9 09:41:38 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 30076 invoked by uid 7770); 9 Feb 1999 17:41:31 -0000 Received: from bizet.which.co.uk (143.41.16.1) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 1999 17:41:31 -0000 Received: by bizet.which.co.uk; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA11321; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:52:37 GMT Message-Id: From: David Kenning To: 'mn' Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:55:44 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Deactivating Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry folks for holding play up in just about every game. I just don't have the energy for this at the moment. I think it's for the best if I go inactive for a little while. toodle pip for now, dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 9 16:33:08 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 15937 invoked by uid 7770); 10 Feb 1999 00:31:54 -0000 Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.36) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 00:31:54 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10ANZB-0004iF-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:31:45 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:25:18 GMT Message-ID: <36c1d0d1.850788@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2. Week 40 - Voting Results for Week 39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------------------------------------------------------------- No. Proposal Name F P A Q Result ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 587 If Life Gives You Blocks ... 5 1 - 3 Passes 588 --- void --- [a] 589 Enter Stage Right 5 1 - 3 Passes 590 Getting to the Point 5 1 - 3 Passes 591 Rewrite (The Title) 4 1 1 3 Passes ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 587 (RiffRaff) FOR FOR FOR - - FOR - FOR PAS [b] 589 (Kevan) FOR FOR FOR - - PAS - FOR FOR 590 (Kevan) FOR FOR FOR - - PAS - FOR FOR 591 (Kevan) AGA FOR FOR - - PAS - FOR FOR ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff - KUDOS --------------------------------------------------------------- Initial: 8 22 0 0 0 8 16 9 10 Halved: 4 11 0 4 4 5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 +14 +0 +5 AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 I I -1 I -0 -0 Decisiveness: +3 +3 +3 n n +3 n +3 +3 Voting/Own: -0 -0 -0 a a +0 a -0 -0 c c c EP FOR Votes: +0 +0 +0 t t +0 t +0 +0 EP AGA Votes: -0 -0 -0 i i +0 i -0 -0 Finger/Pulse: +0 +5 +5 v v +5 v +5 +5 e e e Award Ceremony: +0 +3 +0 +4 +0 +3 = [c] Kudos Gifts +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 --------------------------------------------------------------------- This Week: +3 +11 +8 +0 +25 +8 +16 Final Kudos: 11 22 8 0 0 33 16 17 21 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- dave Dunx Grimace Jon Julie Kevan miKi Paul Riff ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [a] just because I can't count... [b] I'm including dave's Votes, since although e is Inactive as I write this eir Inactivity was declared after Week End. Hence I've also worked through the Kudos calculations. [c] Ruttsborough Award - none IMCS Clarity Award - RiffRaff (If Life Give You Blocks ...) CAMREC Cleanup Award - none Mrs Trellis Award - Kevan (Getting to the Point) Clever Bear Award - none For E's A Jolly Good Fellow - Dunx (automatic) Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 9 16:33:16 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 16116 invoked by uid 7770); 10 Feb 1999 00:32:11 -0000 Received: from finch-punt-12.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.36) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 00:32:11 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10ANZC-0004iF-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:31:58 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:25:24 GMT Message-ID: <36c2d113.916762@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 40 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- MORNINGTON NOMIC Proposals for Voting on in Week Forty -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 592 - The Big Issue [Multiple] 1. My Last Copy, Ladies and Gentlemen [Amendment] To the Possession list in Rule 1.4.18 (The Emporium), add:- +---------------------+------+---------------------------------+ | Possession | Cost | Qualities | +---------------------+------+---------------------------------+ | Big Issue | 1 Br | Papery, Dispensable | +---------------------+------+---------------------------------+ { For those on foreign shores, the Big Issue is a magazine sold in aid of Britain's homeless, unique for being sold on the street by volunteers (who get 0.7 Bronze Tokens per sale, or something). They're a fairly common sight throughout the land, particularly our fair capital. An interestingly pressuring sales approach, really - I don't buy it because I've never found it a very interesting read, and I prefer to just give loose change to the homeless, yet there's too often an air of guilt when I respond in the negative to a "Big Issue, sir?" Tsk. } 2. The Big Issue [Action] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Action Rule Duration Cost ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Raising Big Issue] 1.7.x -1 Gr ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Player may perform the Action of "[Raising Big Issue]" to stir up the capital's Big Issue sellers. Upon performing this Action, a Big Issue Sale is put into effect for one Round. While a Big Issue Sale is in effect, a Player's Turn is illegal if, at the end of it, e is not carrying a Big Issue and e has not performed the Action of "[LV-3]" this Turn. { This was going to be "Busk Attack!", but carrying around a copy of the magazine to show future sellers that you've already got one seemed a pleasing feature. } 3. Fahrenheit 451 [Amendment] To the end of Rule 1.9.2 (Escalator Fires), add:- If any Players are situated at that Station, any Papery Possessions carried by them are destroyed. { While I think of it. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 593 - Proposal - "Line Velocity", starring Keanu Reeves [Action] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Action Rule Duration Cost ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Velocity-Bombing ] 1.7.x -2 Re [Removing Velocity Bomb] 1.7.x -3 Si ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Player may perform the Action of "[Velocity-Bombing ]" to attach a Velocity Bomb to the targetted Player, who must be at a = Station adjacent to the Actioning Player. Upon performing this Action, the targetted Player gains a "Velocity Bomb (Dormant)" - an Indestructable Possession. If the LV of a Player carrying a Velocity Bomb (Dormant) is ever more than four, it is immediately replaced with a Velocity Bomb (Primed). At the end of a Player's Turn, if that Player is carrying a Velocity Bomb (Primed) and has an LV below five, all of eir Tokens and Possessions are destroyed, and eir LV is reduced to zero. A Player may perform the Action of "[Removing Velocity Bomb]" to destroy a single Velocity Bomb in eir Possession, provided that their Piece is situated at a British Rail Station. Upon performing this Action, a Player's LV is reduced to zero. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 594 - Not By a Long Chalk [Multiple] { The Chalk Farm rules seem a little unexciting and pointless at the moment; here's a bit of suggested rewording and replacement. } 1. Board Rubber [Repeals] Repeal Rules 2.2.1-2.2.3. 2. Chalk Farm Denial [Enactment] If any Piece is situated at Chalk Farm, the action of "[Opening MC]" may not be performed. { A new idea, replacing the old and slightly-over-powerful "all Termini on the same Line as you are Wild" thing. } 3. At This Time Of Night? [Enactment] If, at the end of any Player's Turn, that Player's Piece is situated south of the Thames, and eir Move was anything other than "Pass", that Turn shall be considered Illegal. { Rather than the currently-weak "You can't cross the Thames in Spoon", this strongly denies southerly Moves; it's impossible to cross the river southbound during your Move, and if you're Shunted there by another Player, you must either return north (through a Move, a Wild, a Home, or whatever) or Pass. } 4. House Keys [Enactment] When a Player performs an Action of "[Home: ]", e may claim a Zone Pass for any single Zone which contains that Station. { Reworded. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 595 - Stop, Lurk and Listen [Repeal] Repeal Rule 0.4.9 (Lurker Proposals). { Comment: I don't have any particular objection to this, but it has only ever = been used once to my knowledge and that Lurker is now a Player so there = doesn't seem much point any more. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 596 - A Small Matter of Definitions [Amendment] { Comment: The Finsbury Option is all very well, but it fails to define certain important attributes Stations on the new Lines. } Amend Rule 2.3.1 (More Lines To Play With) by adding the following text: "Stations on the Thameslink and North London lines which are not already defined have the following attributes (where Ct, Q and Z are Current, Quadrant and Zone respectively): +----------------------------------------------------+ | Station | Ct | Q | Z | +----------------------------------------------------+ | City Thameslink (TL) | 16 | 0 | 1 | | North Woolwich (NL) | 79 | 2 | 4 | | Silvertown & London City Airport (NL) | 79 | 2 | 3 | | Hackney Wick (NL) | 57 | 1 | 2 | | Homerton (NL) | 54 | 1 | 2 | | Hackney Central (NL) | 49 | 1 | 2 | | Dalston Kingsland (NL) | 45 | 1 | 2 | | Canonbury (NL) | 39 | 1 | 2 | | Caledonian Road & Barnsbury (NL) | 34 | 1 | 2 | | Camden Road (NL) | 25 | 1 | 2 | | Kentish Town West (NL) | 30 | 1 | 2 | | Gospel Oak (NL) | 32 | 1 | 2 | | Hampstead Heath (NL) | 34 | 1 | 2 | | Finchley Road & Frognal (NL) | 35 | 1 | 2 | | Brondesbury (NL) | 37 | 1 | 2 | | Brondesbury Park (NL) | 41 | 1 | 2 | | Kensal Rise (NL) | 46 | 1 | 2 | | Acton Central (NL) | 54 | 1 | 2 | | South Acton (NL) | 57 | 1 | 3 | +----------------------------------------------------+ "Connections are to be taken from the London Underground map at http://www.londontransport.co.uk/travel/und_map.html" { Comment: Phew! Had to use a ruler there... These should also be added to the Calculator. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 597 - Six Hours Can Make A Lot of Difference [Amendment] Amend Rule 0.6.2 (The Week-End) by replacing all occurrences of "11:59am" with "17:59". { Comment: Your Speaker is highly unlikely to do the Week-End stuff on a Tuesday lunchtime. As such, it seems more sensible to move it back to a point where it is conceivable that the paperwork will be done at the = Week-End. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 9 16:53:28 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 26953 invoked by uid 7770); 10 Feb 1999 00:52:47 -0000 Received: from post-20.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.27) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 00:52:47 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 10ANtO-0001rZ-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:52:38 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:46:15 GMT Message-ID: <36c5d5da.2140055@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Player Points Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't forgotten to do the Player Points, I've just run out of energy = to finish them off this evening. I've worked out the actual scores, but need= to complete the web page displaying them. As a preview, though, the only Players with any Points at all are: PaulWay 2 Jonathan 3 miKi 4 Kevan 6 Dunx 6 Since there is a tie for the lead, there is no current Grandmaster. Proper page with chronology and the full whack later in the week. Also, would anybody be interested in a Zipped ruleset? I ask because at = 180k the text ruleset is becoming slow to load. Similarly, would it be of use to anyone if I zipped up the Proposal = archive? Having a local copy of Proposals to do text searches on can be useful, = and is currently a little on the painful side to obtain. Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Wed Feb 10 01:00:14 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 11244 invoked by uid 7770); 10 Feb 1999 09:00:06 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 09:00:06 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA20480 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:59:54 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 08:59:54 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA24454; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:59:54 GMT Message-Id: <199902100859.IAA24454@uksn82> Date: 10 Feb 99 08:57:07 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UKUNIX2.UK.ORACLE.COM:l-nomic-d-return-35-dellis=uk.oracle.com@returns.egroups.com's message of 09-Feb-99 16:55 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Re: Deactivating Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Sorry folks for holding play up in just about every game. I just don't have= >the energy for this at the moment. I think it's for the best if I go >inactive for a little while. Hope you can come back soon. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From David Kenning Wed Feb 10 02:41:00 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 11502 invoked by uid 7770); 10 Feb 1999 10:40:35 -0000 Received: from bizet.which.co.uk (143.41.16.1) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 10:40:35 -0000 Received: by bizet.which.co.uk; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA20320; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:51:32 GMT Message-Id: From: David Kenning To: "'l-nomic-d@egroups.com'" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:16:12 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Subject: MN: Re: Deactivating Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hope you can come back soon. > shall do -- I'll remain hanging around as a spectator at least, but I just haven't got enough energy to think about moves at the moment. dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Wed Feb 10 22:55:32 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 29810 invoked by uid 7770); 11 Feb 1999 06:55:27 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 1999 06:55:27 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Aq1k-0001fI-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:55:09 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:48:46 GMT Message-ID: <36c40a0a.2806870@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: More on Player Points Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've uploaded the Player Points Archive to the web site. It illustrates, = I think, that participating widely does not guarantee a high level of = success. miKi in particular has been very successful in mostly competing games e = won. Also, note that I've reorganised the Proposal Archive slightly - Year 1 = and the EPs are on a separate page, Year 2 will be hived off when we turn into = the new Year. With any luck this will make things quicker to load. Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Thu Feb 11 09:44:15 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 26695 invoked by uid 7770); 11 Feb 1999 16:45:07 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 1999 16:45:06 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA22229 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:44:38 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 11 Feb 1999 16:44:38 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA15124; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:44:36 GMT Message-Id: <199902111644.QAA15124@uksn82> Date: 11 Feb 99 16:28:16 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Delayed Game States Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Note to world: I have played several Moves in the last day (in Games 12-14) but none of them have turned up yet. Patience, please, while I investigate Demon's mail servers. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Fri Feb 12 09:02:28 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 32186 invoked by uid 7770); 12 Feb 1999 13:52:07 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 13:52:07 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA00487 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:51:55 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 13:51:55 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA27213; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:51:55 GMT Message-Id: <199902121351.NAA27213@uksn82> Date: 12 Feb 99 13:48:40 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-Orcl-Application: In-Reply-To:UKUNIX2.UK.ORACLE.COM:l-nomic-d-return-37-dellis=uk.oracle.com@returns.egroups.com's message of 10-Feb-99 00:25 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 40 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Proposals for Week 40 included: > Proposal 592 - The Big Issue [Multiple] Interesting - I love the idea of the Big Issue being in the Game. I have some misgivings, though - > 2. The Big Issue [Action] > [Raising Big Issue] 1.7.x -1 Gr First of all, this seems awfully cheap. Especially when... > While a Big Issue Sale is in effect, a Player's Turn is illegal if, > at the end of it, e is not carrying a Big Issue and e has not > performed the Action of "[LV-3]" this Turn. I suppose you can always Pass, but what happens if you have an LV of less than 3? [LV-3] would itself be Illegal. > 3. Fahrenheit 451 [Amendment] > > To the end of Rule 1.9.2 (Escalator Fires), add:- > > If any Players are situated at that Station, any Papery Possessions > carried by them are destroyed. Well that makes perfect sense, but what's it doing here? > Proposal 593 - Proposal - "Line Velocity", starring Keanu Reeves [Action] Highly entertaining. The possibilities for mayhem that are possible in combination with the Big Issue sale are particularly inviting. > Proposal 594 - Not By a Long Chalk [Multiple] > > { The Chalk Farm rules seem a little unexciting and pointless at the > moment; here's a bit of suggested rewording and replacement. } Er... I rather disagree, I think they're alright as they are. Granted that CF'84 doesn't vary the Vanilla ruleset that much, but then I don't think there needs to be much variation to radically alter the flavour of the game. In actual fact, my feeling is that this alternate version of CF'84 is largely orthogonal to the existing CF'84 Special Ruleset and would be better implemented as a separate set of Special Rules. > 2. Chalk Farm Denial [Enactment] > > If any Piece is situated at Chalk Farm, the action of "[Opening MC]" > may not be performed. Shades of Gordon Brown? > 4. House Keys [Enactment] > > When a Player performs an Action of "[Home: ]", e may claim > a Zone Pass for any single Zone which contains that Station. Much better wording, in fact the only part of this Proposal I'm really happy with. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Fri Feb 12 18:13:43 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 20919 invoked by uid 7770); 12 Feb 1999 20:27:23 -0000 Received: from storm.twcol.com (204.210.251.99) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 20:27:23 -0000 Received: from [208.169.219.117] (cvl219117.columbus.rr.com [208.169.219.117]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA04193 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:31:15 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: riffraff@m... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 15:29:20 -0500 To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 40 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Proposal 593 - Proposal - "Line Velocity", starring Keanu Reeves [Action] > >Highly entertaining. The possibilities for mayhem that are possible in >combination with the Big Issue sale are particularly inviting. Amusing, but way too powerful, imo. Only 2 red for something that costs 3 silver to get rid of, or it destroys all your tokens and possessions? Plus, it doesn't specify what kind of action it is. You could play it as a pre-move action against someone who already has a LV of 5, then shunt them. On their turn, they can't build up more speed than 3. Kaboom! For only 2 red tokens... --Riff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Sat Feb 13 15:34:28 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 28676 invoked by uid 7770); 13 Feb 1999 22:43:23 -0000 Received: from storm.twcol.com (204.210.251.99) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 1999 22:43:23 -0000 Received: from [208.169.219.117] (cvl219117.columbus.rr.com [208.169.219.117]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA19421 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:47:24 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: riffraff@m... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 17:45:30 -0500 To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com From: riffraff@n... (RiffRaff) Subject: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 40 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-From_: kevan@s... Sat Feb 13 06:31:43 1999 >From: kevan@s... >To: riffraff@n... >Subject: RE: MN: Re: Year 2, Week 40 Proposals >Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:34:14 -0600 > > >>Amusing, but way too powerful, imo. Only 2 red for >something that costs 3 >>silver to get rid of, or it destroys all your tokens and >possessions? > >You have to be next to the Player to attach it, though, >which does (as with the other Clamps and things) leave >you very open to retaliation. Unless I've missed things, >the playing of Clamps seems very rare. > >Three Silver might be a bit too much, although if you're >zipping round the map at high speeds, you should be able >to pick up Silvers quite easily. > >>Plus, it doesn't specify what kind of action it is. You >could play it as a >>pre-move action against someone who already has a LV of 5, >then shunt them. >>On their turn, they can't build up more speed than 3. >Kaboom! For only 2 >>red tokens... > >Careless - I meant it to be Post-Move (the adjacency >preventing it being combined with a Shunt). Tsk. > >I'm not sure how powerful the above tactic is, mind; to >Shunt after attaching a Bomb, you're likely to need (fiddly >Zone 1 round-the-houses routes aside) an LV of 1, which >puts the victim at an adjacent Station, ready to fight >back. And Nantucketting Possessions will save them from >destruction, just as Hoarding Tokens would. > >I think I'd have to see how it panned out, really. Maybe >making it a Post-Move Action is all that's required, >although possibly the removal cost could be altered. And >maybe something about it affecting all Players at a >Station when it explodes, to make the Bomb itself a bit >of an offensive weapon. (Perhaps worth bringing in line >with Suspect Packages, for a generic "explosion" effect. >Hmm.) > >My thumbs are up, incidentally, to all other Proposals >this Week. > >Kevan > > >_____________________________________________ >Get your free personalized email address at >http://www.MyOwnEmail.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From kevan@s... Sun Feb 14 10:11:17 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 18771 invoked by uid 7770); 14 Feb 1999 18:11:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mojo.myownemail.com) (208.223.204.107) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 1999 18:11:07 -0000 Received: from 208.223.204.107 [208.223.204.107] by mojo.myownemail.com (SMTPD32-4.07) id A25047C00CE; Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:13:36 CST5EDT From: kevan@s... To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 12:13:36 -0600 X-Mailer: My Own Email v3.0 Subject: MN: Fifteen minutes Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was somewhat taken aback to find myself quoted in the Sunday papers this morning... -- Many fans of Radio 4's "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" may have assumed that the point of the celebrated game Mornington Crescent was that the players only pretend there are rules. The 20,000-odd words of the Mornington Nomic rule set prove otherwise; as does the even longer Encyclopaedia Morningtonia, published by a nucleus of "MC" devotees in York. The Nomic principle, already used to explain the weird world of LambdaMOO, can now elucidate one of our home-grown mysteries. In these fat files, newbies can find explanations of the finer points of play, such as the Finsbury Option, the Septimus Divergence (moving to Seven Sisters), line velocities, and "foetal" stations (still under construction). Foetal stations have coefficients of 1.4 times those of "ghost" stations, defunct destinations such as British Museum and Aldwych. You can watch a game in progress too, although as in LambdaMOO, it soon disappears beneath a sea of banter straight from a post- graduate student party. Player Gil Williamson also offers an automated game that can be played by clicking on a section of Tube map. But nowhere will you find the answer to the game's fundamental paradox, set out in the Mornington Nomic FAQ: "Mornington Nomic starts with but two essential playing rules: 'The Winner is the first Player to Move to Mornington Crescent' and 'No Player may Move to Mornington Crescent'." -- Technofile, The Independent, 14/2/99 _____________________________________________ Get your free personalized email address at http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From Mon Feb 15 00:34:38 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 10280 invoked by uid 7770); 15 Feb 1999 08:34:15 -0000 Received: from mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (193.130.129.196) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 15 Feb 1999 08:34:15 -0000 Received: from gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk (gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk [193.130.129.195]) by mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA05178 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:34:02 GMT Received: from uksn82.uk.oracle.com by gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk via smtpd (for mail-gw2.uk.oracle.com [193.130.129.196]) with SMTP; 15 Feb 1999 08:34:02 UT Received: by uksn82 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA28973; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:34:02 GMT Message-Id: <199902150834.IAA28973@uksn82> Date: 15 Feb 99 08:30:16 +0000 From: "Dunx (Duncan Ellis)" To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.1.2.12.0) Subject: MN: Oops Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apologies - GSDs delayed due to Speaker idiocy. Resend tonight. -- Dunx IRL: Duncan Ellis, Senior Software Engineer, Business Modelers, Oracle General: http://ukp6612.uk.oracle.com/dunx/index.html Volleyball: http://ukp6612.uk.oracle.com/volleyball/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 16 15:39:45 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 24062 invoked by uid 7770); 16 Feb 1999 23:39:38 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 23:39:38 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Cu5L-0002nH-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:39:23 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:32:51 GMT Message-ID: <36caffbc.176914@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 41 Proposals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- MORNINGTON NOMIC Proposals for Voting on in Week Forty-One -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 598 - Extending Attacks [Enactment] =46or simplicity, the rest of this Rule refers to the Player or Object affected by the Action as the Target and the Player performing the Action= as the Actor. Any Action which requires the Actor to be adjacent to a Target may be Extended. This is done by adding the text '(Extend: )' into the text = of the Action. This addition of text does not change the validity of the Action - thus, a '[Spooning (Extend: 1)]' Action is as valid as = the equivalent '[Spooning ]' Action. '' is the cost in Red tokens expended in the Extension. =46or each Red token expended in the Extension, the Target can be up to = three Stations distant from the Actor. The Target must be on the same line as = the Actor, and the Line Segment between the Target and the Actor must not include any change in Line Direction. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 599 - The more Targets the merrier! [Enactment] =46or simplicity, the rest of this Rule refers to the Player or Object affected by the Action as the Target and the Player performing the Action= as the Actor. Any Action which requires the Actor to be at the same Station as a Target may be Proxied. This is done by adding the text '(Proxied)' into the = text of the Action. This addition of text does not change the validity of the Action - thus, a '[Spooning (Extend: 1)]' Action is as valid as = the equivalent '[Spooning ]' Action. Proxying an Action costs one Green Token and one Blue Token. An Action Proxied in this way may be also Extended in the appropriate manner. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 600 - Flat Terrain [Repeal] Repeal Rule 1.6.2, relating to the velocity gains and losses when encountering High and Hill stations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 601 - Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb [Multiple] 1. Clean Slate [Repeal, Amendments] Repeal any Rule entitled "Line Velocity, Starring Keanu Reeves", and remove related Actions from the Action tables. 2. The Velocity Bomb [Action] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Action Rule Duration Cost ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Velocity-Bombing ] 1.7.x -3 Re [Removing Velocity Bomb] 1.7.x -2 Si ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Player may perform the post-Move Action of "[Velocity-Bombing ]" to attach a Velocity Bomb to the targetted Player, who must be at a Station adjacent to the Actioning Player. Upon performing this Action, the targetted Player gains a "Velocity Bomb (Dormant)" - an Indestructable Possession. If the LV of a Player carrying a Velocity Bomb (Dormant) is ever more than four, it is immediately replaced with a Velocity Bomb (Primed) = (also an Indestructable Possession). At the end of a Player's Turn, if that Player is carrying a Velocity Bomb (Primed) and has an LV below five, the Bomb explodes as if it = were a Suspect Package which had just been detonated. A Player may perform the Action of "[Removing Velocity Bomb]" to destroy a single Velocity Bomb in eir Possession, provided that their Piece is situated at a British Rail Station. Upon performing this Action, a Player's LV is reduced to zero. 3. Hello, Bomb? [Amendment] Reword the second and third paragraphs of Rule 1.7.30 (Suspect Package Detonation) to:- When this Action is played, the Package detonates. Upon a Suspect Package's detonation, the Station at which it rests becomes Heavily Damaged, the Package is removed from play, and all Stations less than three stops away are Blasted.=20 When a Station is Blasted, any Token Stack at that Station is = destroyed, and any Players at that Station lose all of their Possessions and must play a Move of "Pass" with no Actions as their next Turn. If a Suspect Package rests at a Blasted Station, it detonates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 602 - The Green Clamp [Action] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Action Rule Duration Cost ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Greening ] 1.7.x -2 Gr [Degreening] 1.7.x -2 Gr ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A Player may perform the post-Move Action of "[Greening ]", where is a Player with a Piece adjacent to the Actioning Player's Piece position. A Greened Player gains a "Green Clamp" Possession. Green Clamps are Indestructable Possessions. At the end of any Turn of a Player carrying a Green Clamp, if that Player has sufficient Tokens to perform a "[Recycling]" Action, but has not performed such an Action this Turn, eir Turn is Illegal.=20 A Player may destroy a single Green Clamp which they are carrying, by performing the Action of "[Degreening]" whilst at any Green Station. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 603 - Blackballing [Repeal] Repeal Rule 1.1.6 (Club Structure). { Comments : Deeply under-used, and unlikely ever to be very significant in a forum of few players. I think the semi-chosen pairings of Team Games are enough of a substitute, really. } -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 604 - Chlorofiller [Rewrite] Rewrite Rule 1.8.2 (Parks and Greens Cascade):- A Player may perform the Action of "[Parks and Greens Cascade]" to put such a Cascade into effect, provided that eir Piece is situated at a Park or Green Station.=20 While a Parks and Greens Cascade is in effect, a Move to a Station which is neither a Park, Plant nor Green Station is Invalid, unless the Player taking eir Turn has performed a "[Cascade Sidestep]" Action during that Turn.=20 A Player may perform the Action of "[Terminating Cascade]" to end a Parks and Greens Cascade, provided that eir piece is situated at a Plant Station.=20 { Just bringing one of our oldest Rules in line with current wording. }=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 605 - Token Edit [Rewrite] Rewrite Rule 1.4.10 (This Token has a Cash Value of 0.0001p):-=20 Any Player may perform the Action of "[Bonanza]", provided that its cost is paid with ten Plastic Tokens of the same colour. Upon performing this Action, the Actioning Player gains one Gold Token.=20 "[Bonanza]" is considered a Token Exchange Action.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Proposal 606 - Resigning Issue [Multiple] { Comment: Here I was, all set to issue a Resignation Proposal, and I realise it's no longer a legal Proposal type. Curses. Best fix it then. } [Amendment: Resign On the Dotted Line] Amend Rule 0.4.1 () by add the following Proposal type to the list: "* Resignation - To force another Player to Resign." [Amendment: Last Bastion of Otherness] Amend Rule 1.1.3 (Resignation) by making the first paragraph read thus: "Any Player may Resign from a Game of Mornington Crescent by posting a message to the Discussion Lounge informing the other Players of eir = wish. Any Player may submit a Proposal of Type Resignation, Proposing that a = Player be Forced to Resign. [End of Resigning Issue] -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Dunx -- Ceci n'est pas un .sig ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/l-nomic-d Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com From dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) Tue Feb 16 15:39:46 1999 Delivered-To: listsaver-of-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Mailing-List: contact l-nomic-d-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: l-nomic-d@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/l-nomic-d/ Reply-To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-l-nomic-d@egroups.com Received: (qmail 23954 invoked by uid 7770); 16 Feb 1999 23:39:34 -0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (HELO post.mail.demon.net) (194.217.242.38) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 1999 23:39:34 -0000 Received: from [158.152.31.180] (helo=lazarus.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Cu5J-0002nH-00 for l-nomic-d@egroups.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:39:22 +0000 From: dunx@l... (Duncan Ellis) To: l-nomic-d@egroups.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:32:49 GMT Message-ID: <36c9ff71.101943@p...> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: MN: Year 2, Week 41 - Voting Results for Week 40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------------------------------------------------------------- No. Proposal Name F P A Q Result ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 592 The Big Issue 2 1 2 3 Fails=20 593 "Line Velocity", starring ... 3 1 1 3 Passes [a] 594 Not By a Long Chalk 1 1 3 3 Fails=20 595 Stop, Lurk and Listen 3 1 1 3 Passes 596 A Small Matter of Definitions 4 1 - 3 Passes 597 Six Hours Can Make A Lot ... 4 1 -