From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 10:03:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 17:03:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 5674 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 17:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 17:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 17:03:02 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601170302.CPJI13259.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:03:02 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Welcome to Legislative Nomic Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:03:35 -0400 Message-ID: <008401c0eabc$cbe975c0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0086_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0086_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92ve talked for a couple of weeks about Legislative Nomic, to a number of people. Now that www.nomic.net is back up, it is possible to troll for players there. Although I can still be persuaded to change the initial set, I=92ll consider the game officially started once there are at least four MPs. Of course, I=92d like many, many more, so if you have suggestions for where to find players, I=92m especially interested in hearing about it. I=92ve got the Legislative Nomic web page (for now), at members.home.com/dmarsh3000/Legislative_Nomic.htm (that=92s Legislative[underscore]Nomic). I have no objection, of course, to volunteer archivists setting up parallel pages, since the rules give no precedence to mine. Once again, welcome to Legislative Nomic! =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0086_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=92ve talked for a couple of weeks about Legislative Nomic, to a number of people.  Now that www.nomic.net is back up, it is possible to troll for players there.

Although I can still be persuaded to cha= nge the initial set, I=92ll consider the game officially started once there are at least four MPs.  Of course,= I=92d like many, many more, so if you have suggestions for where to find players,= I=92m especially interested in hearing about it.

I=92ve got the Legislative Nomic web page (for now), at members.h= ome.com/dmarsh3000/Legislative_Nomic.htm (that=92s Legislative[underscore]Nomic).  I have no objection, of course, to volunteer archivists setting up parallel pages, since the rules give no precedence to mine.

Once again, welcome to Legislative Nomic= !

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0086_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C0EA9B.44D7D5C0-- From htowsner@s... Fri Jun 01 13:03:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:03:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 75867 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:03:26 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51K3Q407303 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:03:21 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Joining Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner I would like to become an MP. Incidentally, this looks quite interesting. It meshes with a number of ideas I have toyed with over the years, so I'm really looking forward to it. Plus I'm out of school in two weeks, so I should have some time to devote to it. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 13:05:08 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:05:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 4622 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:02:29 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601200228.LZMO13259.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:02:28 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Seated in Parliament Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <00ac01c0ead5$dd469d20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0EAB4.5634FD20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0EAB4.5634FD20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00AE_01C0EAB4.5634FD20" ------=_NextPart_001_00AE_01C0EAB4.5634FD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oddly, although I don=92t consider the game as started, I find myself following the rules. =20 Under Statute 2.2 , =93A human person who wishes to be seated in Parliament shall communicate his desire to The King.=94 I think I can interpret the nature of such communication fairly liberally. So, this message serves to =93publ[ish] to all players a statement to that effect,=94 that is, that =93mittnox=94 a= nd =93sallyvacuum=94 are seated in Parliament. =20 As in the previous message, I will consider the game started, and accept bills to place on Parliament=92s Agenda, once there are four MPs. In the meantime, if any seated MP wishes to change his =93player name,=94 let me know. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_00AE_01C0EAB4.5634FD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oddly, although I don=92t consider the game as started, I find myself following the rules.

 

Under Statute 2.2,= =93A human person who wishes to be seated in Parliament shall communicate his de= sire to The King.=94  I think I can interpret the nature of such communication fairly liberally.  So, this message serves to =93publ= [ish] to all players a statement to that effect,=94 that is, that =93mittnox=94 and =93sallyvacuum=94 are seated in Parliament.

 

As in the previous message, I will consider the game started, and accept bills to place on Parliament=92s Agenda, once there are four MPs.  In the meantime, if any = seated MP wishes to change his =93player name,=94 let me know.

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_00AE_01C0EAB4.5634FD20-- ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0EAB4.5634FD20 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C0EAB4.5634FD20-- From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 13:13:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:13:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 54071 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:13:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:13:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:13:00 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601201258.MODC13259.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:12:58 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:13:33 -0400 Message-ID: <00b701c0ead7$55461b60$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C0EAB5.CE347B60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C0EAB5.CE347B60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00B9_01C0EAB5.CE347B60" ------=_NextPart_001_00B9_01C0EAB5.CE347B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 4:03 PM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject:=20 =20 I would like to become an MP. Incidentally, this looks quite interesting. It meshes with a=20 number of ideas I have toyed with over the years, so I'm really=20 looking forward to it. Plus I'm out of school in two weeks, so I=20 should have some time to devote to it. =20 Welcome, you may be seated. :-) You were a player in the early days of Ackanomic, yes? Your name is very familiar to me as a player (as opposed to as a member of the Nomic community), and I don=92t remember that you were a player of any of the small nomics I=92ve participated in, since I left Acka at about Proposal 900. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_00B9_01C0EAB5.CE347B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]
Sent
:
Friday, June 01, 2001 <= /font>4:03 PM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject:
=

 

      I would like to b= ecome an MP.

      Incidentally,= this looks quite interesting.  It meshes with a
number of ideas I have toyed with over the y= ears, so I'm really
looking forward to it.  Plus I'm out of school in two weeks, so I
should
have some time to devote to it.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

Welcome, you may be seated.  J  You were a player in = the early days of Ackanomic, yes?  Your name is very familiar to me a= s a player (as opposed to as a member of the Nomic community), and I don=92t remember that you were a player of any of the small no= mics I=92ve participated in, since I left Acka at about Proposal 900.

 


------=_NextPart_001_00B9_01C0EAB5.CE347B60-- ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C0EAB5.CE347B60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01C0EAB5.CE347B60-- From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 13:20:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 18598 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:20:15 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601202014.MXWD13259.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 13:20:14 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Trolling for Players Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:20:48 -0400 Message-ID: <00c501c0ead8$58da2220$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EAB6.D1C88220" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EAB6.D1C88220 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00C7_01C0EAB6.D1C88220" ------=_NextPart_001_00C7_01C0EAB6.D1C88220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92ve picked up a player or two from www.nomic.net , so far, but does anyone have any ideas for recruiting from other sources? Particularly the legal or political commuities? =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_00C7_01C0EAB6.D1C88220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=92ve picked up a player or two from www.nomic.net , so far, but does anyone = have any ideas for recruiting from other sources?=A0 Particularly the legal or political commuities?

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_00C7_01C0EAB6.D1C88220-- ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EAB6.D1C88220 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C0EAB6.D1C88220-- From mittnox@y... Fri Jun 01 13:20:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:20:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 45981 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.48) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:20:52 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by fl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 20:20:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:20:50 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Seated in Parliament Message-ID: <9f8tf2+5cso@e...> In-Reply-To: <00ac01c0ead5$dd469d20$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 152 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... >"mittnox" and "sallyvacuum" are seated in Parliament. Thank you, Your Majesty. And salutations to the Honorable Messrs. Vacuum and Towsner. mittnox From mittnox@y... Fri Jun 01 13:22:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 20:22:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 48336 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 20:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 20:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 20:22:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 20:22:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 20:22:05 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Trolling for Players Message-ID: <9f8thd+n184@e...> In-Reply-To: <00c501c0ead8$58da2220$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 66 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... I've got one lawyer friend, I'll see if he's interested. mittnox From htowsner@s... Fri Jun 01 14:31:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 21:31:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 46366 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 21:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 21:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 21:31:48 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f51LVmH18318 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00b701c0ead7$55461b60$70a20741@g...> References: <00b701c0ead7$55461b60$70a20741@g...> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:31:45 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] RE: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220691388==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220691388==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Welcome, you may be seated. J You were a player in the early days >of Ackanomic, yes? Your name is very familiar to me as a player (as >opposed to as a member of the Nomic community), and I don't remember >that you were a player of any of the small nomics I've participated >in, since I left Acka at about Proposal 900. I did play in Ackanomic, but not until much later (I joined somewhere in the early to mid 2000's, right after the Vulcan crisis). We were probably in some other game together, perhaps something I joined briefly. At various times I've played in FRC, autonomic, MicroNomic II/MacroNomic, and pnomic, some of them more actively than others. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220691388==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [leg-nomic] RE:
Welcome, you may be seated.  J  You were a player in the early days of Ackanomic, yes?  Your name is very familiar to me as a player (as opposed to as a member of the Nomic community), and I don't remember that you were a player of any of the small nomics I've participated in, since I left Acka at about Proposal 900.

        I did play in Ackanomic, but not until much later (I joined somewhere in the early to mid 2000's, right after the Vulcan crisis).  We were probably in some other game together, perhaps something I joined briefly.  At various times I've played in FRC, autonomic, MicroNomic II/MacroNomic, and pnomic, some of them more actively than others.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220691388==_ma============-- From sallyvacuum@y... Fri Jun 01 15:22:20 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 22:22:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 21488 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 22:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 22:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11204.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.131.186) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 22:22:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20010601222219.71418.qmail@w...> Received: from [64.236.243.243] by web11204.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:22:19 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00ac01c0ead5$dd469d20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Aaron J. Cappocchi-Vacuum"

Your Majesty:

   I'd like to use my real-world name of "Cappocchi" as my player name here. 

(Years after the fact, he began to realize that naming an email address after a female cartoon character was perhaps not the wisest or least confusing choice.)

 

  Dan Marsh <dmarsh3000@h...> wrote:

Oddly, although I don’t consider the game as started, I find myself following the rules.

 

Under Statute 2.2, “A human person who wishes to be seated in Parliament shall communicate his desire to The King.”  I think I can interpret the nature of such communication fairly liberally.  So, this message serves to “publ[ish] to all players a statement to that effect,” that is, that “mittnox” and “sallyvacuum” are seated in Parliament.

 

As in the previous message, I will consider the game started, and accept bills to place on Parliament’s Agenda, once there are four MPs.  In the meantime, if any seated MP wishes to change his “player name,” let me know.

 

 


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__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 15:33:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 22:33:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 78582 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 22:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 22:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta3 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 22:33:05 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010601223304.CGIB25421.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 15:33:04 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Acka et al Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 18:33:38 -0400 Message-ID: <00df01c0eaea$e749e380$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C0EAC9.60384380" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C0EAC9.60384380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00E1_01C0EAC9.603FE4A0" ------=_NextPart_001_00E1_01C0EAC9.603FE4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 I did play in Ackanomic, but not until much later (I joined somewhere in the early to mid 2000's, right after the Vulcan crisis). We were probably in some other game together, perhaps something I joined briefly. At various times I've played in FRC, autonomic, MicroNomic II/MacroNomic, and pnomic, some of them more actively than others. -- Henry Towsner =20 Hmm, now I=92m not sure what one of my Nomics was called. Was =93PNomic=94= a game that barely got off the ground, before devolving into a mess of competing coups after the Speaker went AWOL? =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_00E1_01C0EAC9.603FE4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [leg-nomic] RE:

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

=

        I did play in Ackanomic, but not until much later (I joined somewhere in the early to mid 2000's, right after the Vulcan crisis).  We were probably= in some other game together, perhaps something I joined briefly.  At vari= ous times I've played in FRC, autonomic, MicroNomic II/MacroNomic, and pnomic, = some of them more actively than others.

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...= du>

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

Hmm, now I=92m not sure what one of my <= span class=3DSpellE>Nomics was called.&n= bsp; Was =93PNomic=94 a game that barely got off the ground, before devolving into a mess of competing coups after t= he Speaker went AWOL?

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'> 


------=_NextPart_001_00E1_01C0EAC9.603FE4A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C0EAC9.60384380 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_00E0_01C0EAC9.60384380-- From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 15:33:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 22:33:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 79013 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 22:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 22:33:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 22:33:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dmarsh3000@h... Received: from [10.1.2.74] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 22:33:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 22:33:13 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Seated in Parliament Message-ID: <9f9579+jpre@e...> In-Reply-To: <20010601222219.71418.qmail@w...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 499 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.7.162.112 From: dmarsh3000@h... --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Aaron J. Cappocchi-Vacuum" wrote: >

Your Majesty: >

   I'd like to use my real-world name of > "Cappocchi" as my player name here.  >

(Years after the fact, he began to realize that naming an > email address after a female cartoon character was perhaps not > the wisest or least confusing choice.) Wow, wacky, the entire message was HTML source. Anyway, I got the drift. Who's "Sally Vacuum"? I don't know the cartoon. DM From mittnox@y... Fri Jun 01 16:21:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 1 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 37959 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 1 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.33] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:21:34 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Sally Vacuum Message-ID: <9f981u+f9jk@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 102 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... A quick web-search reveals she is an anchorwoman for Channel 17 in The Tick comic. Captain Infinity From sallyvacuum@y... Fri Jun 01 21:39:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 04:39:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 88115 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 04:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 04:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web11208.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.131.190) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 04:39:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20010602043943.42061.qmail@w...> Received: from [63.205.45.200] by web11208.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 01 Jun 2001 21:39:43 PDT Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Sally Vacuum To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9f981u+f9jk@e...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Aaron J. Cappocchi-Vacuum" mittnox@y... wrote: A quick web-search reveals she is an anchorwoman for Channel 17 in The Tick comic.Captain Infinity - Nice catch, Captain. THE interesting thing aBOUT Sally Vacuum in THE cartoons is SHE tends, to emphasize ALL the, wrong syllables in a sentence, MAKING, her stories, RATHER, hard to follow. ===== The information transmitted herein is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender, delete the material, and gouge out your eyes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 01 22:57:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 05:57:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 67456 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 05:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 05:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta2 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 05:57:36 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010602055735.TPQU25421.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:57:35 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Trolling for players Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 01:58:09 -0400 Message-ID: <012601c0eb29$00792620$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0127_01C0EB07.79678620" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C0EB07.79678620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0128_01C0EB07.79678620" ------=_NextPart_001_0128_01C0EB07.79678620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sent a brief message to the players or mailing lists of Nomics that seem to have recently died, and invited them to join Legislative Nomic. =20 Surprisingly, several of the alive Nomics have a good 20 players (including =93Our Nomic=94 and =93The Curvature of the Earth is Overwhelmed= by Local Noise Nomic=94), which I haven=92t seen in a Nomic in a while. =20 Anyway, hopefully it pays off. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0128_01C0EB07.79678620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I sent a brief message to the players or mailing lists of Nomics that seem to have recently died, and invited them t= o join Legislative Nomic.

 

Surprisingly, several of the alive Nomic= s have a good 20 players (including =93Our Nomic=94 and =93The Curvature of the Earth is Overwhelmed by Local Noise Nomic=94), which I haven=92t seen in a Nomic in a while.

 

Anyway, hopefully it pays off.

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0128_01C0EB07.79678620-- ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C0EB07.79678620 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01C0EB07.79678620-- From mittnox@y... Sat Jun 02 05:32:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 85968 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO jk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.92) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 12:32:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.110] by jk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2001 12:32:27 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 12:32:26 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Trolling for players Message-ID: <9famcq+8vjj@e...> In-Reply-To: <012601c0eb29$00792620$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 526 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.247.108.113 From: mittnox@y... I subscribe to the mailing list for Agora Nomic (though I'm not a player) and it has more than 30 players. Captain Infinity > I sent a brief message to the players or mailing lists of Nomics that > seem to have recently died, and invited them to join Legislative Nomic. > > Surprisingly, several of the alive Nomics have a good 20 players > (including "Our Nomic" and "The Curvature of the Earth is Overwhelmed by > Local Noise Nomic"), which I haven't seen in a Nomic in a while. > > Anyway, hopefully it pays off. From dmarsh3000@h... Sat Jun 02 08:46:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 15:46:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 26457 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 15:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 15:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.145) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 15:46:38 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010602154637.HMHG25421.femail18.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 08:46:37 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Trolling for players / Agora Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: <014d01c0eb7b$4ac800a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014E_01C0EB59.C3B660A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: <9famcq+8vjj@e...> X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_014E_01C0EB59.C3B660A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_014F_01C0EB59.C3B660A0" ------=_NextPart_001_014F_01C0EB59.C3B660A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]=20 Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 8:32 AM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Trolling for players =20 I subscribe to the mailing list for Agora Nomic (though I'm not a=20 player) and it has more than 30 players. Captain Infinity =20 Yah, they have a goodly number of players. Agora intimidates me somehow, though, even though I=92ve never done more than look at its records. =20 Incidentally, I was looking at a good report of the history of Nomic World, out of whose ruins was born Agora Nomic. I=92m surprised how many of the meta-game-custom issues were born out of Nomic World; the ways that they solved certain problems are sort of standard-issue in Nomic now. Not only were they the first large-scale Nomic online, but they occasionally had the input of Suber himself, it appears from the archives. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_014F_01C0EB59.C3B660A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]
Sent
:
Saturday, June 02, 2001 <= /font>8:32 AM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Tro= lling for players

 

I subscribe to the mailing list for Agora Nomic (though I'm not a
player
) and it has more than 30 players.
=


Captain Infinity

 

Yah, they have a goodly number of players.  Agora intimidates me somehow, thou= gh, even though I=92ve never done more than look at its records.

 

Incidentally, I was looking at a good report= of the history of Nomic World, out of whose ruins was born Agora Nomic.  I=92m surprised how many of the me= ta-game-custom issues were born out of Nomic World; the ways that they solved certain prob= lems are sort of standard-issue in Nomic now.&n= bsp; Not only were they the first large-scale Nomic online, but they occasionally had the input of Suber himself, it appears from the archives.

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>=  


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Welcome to two new Members of Parliament= , Ryan and BallTurret.  You may be seated.

 

I hope and expect more players to come i= n response to my pleas last night, but I said that I=92d start the game with four MPs.  We have five, so th= e game is afoot.

 

Your humble King is now accepting bills (proposals) to place on the Agenda of Parliament.  All bills which get on the Agenda = by noon Thursday (EDT) will be published (aro= und) noon Sunday for voting.<= /p>

 

Because nobody has been seated in Parlia= ment for two weeks, under Statute 5.1 = I am also Chief Justice until, by my reckoning, 17 June= 2001.

 

Heh =96 a poster to www.nomic.net thought that the game smac= ked too much of Imperial Nomic.  H= e was speaking primarily of Statute 1.2 = (where he=92s partly right), but I=92ve currently got all the good offices.  All the crappy ones,= too, but this early the burden is hardly odious.

 

------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C0EB5F.6A7A6300-- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0EB5F.6A7A6300 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0EB5F.6A7A6300-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Sat Jun 02 09:34:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28371 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 16:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 16:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hm.egroups.com) (10.1.10.45) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 16:34:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.113] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2001 16:34:33 -0000 Date: 2 Jun 2001 16:34:31 -0000 Message-ID: <991499671.266.65628.f5@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Test poll: Bill 999 o YEA o NAY o ABSTAIN/UNDECIDED To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From dmarsh3000@h... Sat Jun 02 09:40:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 16:40:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 16450 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 16:40:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 16:40:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 16:40:37 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010602164036.KJOK13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 09:40:36 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Voting/Polling Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:41:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001201c0eb82$cfa75620$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0EB61.4895B620" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0EB61.4895B620 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C0EB61.4895B620" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C0EB61.4895B620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yahoo! groups has a polling feature, which we can use for voting. Does anyone object? =20 The pertinent statute is 4.6, where =93Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King;=94 I think that the Yahoo! polls count as communicating it to me as I do get results by voter. =20 The only caveat may be that the closing date for polls doesn=92t allow time to be specified; I=92ll have to see whether votes get datestamped, or whether I just assume that votes made on the appropriate day got in by noon. =20 The message immediately prior to this should tell you that a poll has opened; I=92d like to test the feature before we use it on the raft of bills I=92m sure are about to be submitted. Please vote. =20 Leg-Nomic polls: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C0EB61.4895B620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yahoo! groups has a polling feature, which we can use f= or voting.  Does anyone object?

 

The pertinent statute is 4.6, where =93<= /span>Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote= to The King;=94 I think that the Yahoo! polls count as communicating it to me as I do get results by voter.<= /font>

 

The only caveat may be th= at the closing date for polls doesn=92t allow time to be specified; I=92ll have to see whether votes get datestamped, or w= hether I just assume that votes made on the appropriate day got in by noon.

 

The message immediately prior to this should tell you that a poll h= as opened; I=92d like to test the feature before we use it on the raft of bills I=92m sure are about to be submitted.  Please vote.

 

Leg-Nomic polls: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls=

 

------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C0EB61.4895B620-- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0EB61.4895B620 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C0EB61.4895B620-- From ryan_shannon@y... Sat Jun 02 11:39:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 18:39:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 14763 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 18:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 18:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp012.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.32) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 18:39:52 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 18:39:52 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <010001c0eb93$ce663ae0$8ee50418@c...> To: Subject: [LEG-NOMIC] Howdy and some initial ideas. Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:42:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00FD_01C0EB61.837AC4B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01C0EB61.837AC4B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya all,=20 I've done a bit of thinking about some initial steps and I'd like to float = my ideas. I've used the: comments on the initial ruleset http://members.home.com/dmarsh3000/lnomic/c= omments.htm and various ideas picked up from other Nomics I've lurked on for catalyst. 1) The players, in addition to shoring up the statutes that govern rulemaki= ng, will hopefully direct themselves to creating a more and more subtle "ou= tside world" for the rules to govern, and more and more subtle ways for MP'= s to interact with the outside world. The result is likely to veer drastic= ally from the real world, but it will be a world. Players may decide to ad= apt their world toward the real world, or not. We could begin gel up ideas for building the world that we govern. It might= be fun to design a county like system that each MP is "elected" from. Give= those county populations based on various rules etc and allow those popula= tions to effect the PO on bills.=20 2) Several ideas were left out of the initial set. For example, Public Opi= nion should sometimes propose bills. These should be vague, something like= "we want health care," but the benefits of then proposing a bill labeled "= health care" should be great.=20=20 We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool idea. I do= think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to hold it up though. I= f we did have some sort of "reality" with people with wants and desires spo= ntaneous bills by demand of "the people" could be pretty neat and provide a= lot of interesting play. 3) We could being to chip away the almighty powers of our soveriegn. :) Ser= iously though, the king does have a tremendous amount of responsibility and= it may be beneficial to everyone to establish offices and posts within the= Parliament. Just some food for though and hopefully discussion, -Ryan ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01C0EB61.837AC4B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hiya all,
 
I've done a bit of thinking about som= e initial=20 steps and I'd like to float my ideas. I've used the:
comments on the initial ruleset http://memb= ers.home.com/dmarsh3000/lnomic/comments.htm
and various ideas picked up from other Nom= ics I've=20 lurked on for catalyst.
 
1) The=20 players, in addition to shoring up the statutes that govern rulemaking, wil= l=20 hopefully direct themselves to creating a more and more subtle “outsi= de world”=20 for the rules to govern, and more and more subtle ways for MP’s to in= teract with=20 the outside world.  The result is likely to veer drastically from the = real=20 world, but it will be a world.  Players may decide to adapt their worl= d=20 toward the real world, or not.
 
We could begin gel up ideas for building the world that we govern. It = might=20 be fun to design a county like system that each MP is "elected" from. Give = those=20 county populations based on various rules etc and allow those populations t= o=20 effect the PO on bills.
 
2) Several=20 ideas were left out of the initial set.  For example, Public Opinion s= hould=20 sometimes propose bills.  These should be vague, something like “= ;we want=20 health care,” but the benefits of then proposing a bill labeled ̶= 0;health care”=20 should be great. 
 
We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool idea.= I do=20 think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to hold it up though. If= we=20 did have some sort of "reality" with people with wants and desires spontane= ous=20 bills by demand of "the people" could be pretty neat and provide alot of=20 interesting play.
 
3) We could being to chip away the almight= y powers=20 of our soveriegn. :) Seriously though, the king does have a tremendous amou= nt of=20 responsibility and it may be beneficial to everyone to establish offices an= d=20 posts within the Parliament.
 
 
Just some food for though and hopefully=20 discussion,
-Ryan
------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01C0EB61.837AC4B0-- From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 02 12:58:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 19:58:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 63945 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 19:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 19:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 19:58:16 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f52JwF409429 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <010001c0eb93$ce663ae0$8ee50418@c...> References: <010001c0eb93$ce663ae0$8ee50418@c...> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:58:13 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [LEG-NOMIC] Howdy and some initial ideas. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220610600==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220610600==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >1) The players, in addition to shoring up the statutes that govern >rulemaking, will hopefully direct themselves to creating a more and >more subtle "outside world" for the rules to govern, and more and >more subtle ways for MP's to interact with the outside world. The >result is likely to veer drastically from the real world, but it >will be a world. Players may decide to adapt their world toward the >real world, or not. > >We could begin gel up ideas for building the world that we govern. >It might be fun to design a county like system that each MP is >"elected" from. Give those county populations based on various rules >etc and allow those populations to effect the PO on bills. One idea I was thinking about would be that instead of having us be MPs, each player would represent a political party. Then eventually each player's voting power could vary to some extent based on some variant of their political capital. >2) Several ideas were left out of the initial set. For example, >Public Opinion should sometimes propose bills. These should be >vague, something like "we want health care," but the benefits of >then proposing a bill labeled "health care" should be great. > >We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool >idea. I do think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to >hold it up though. If we did have some sort of "reality" with people >with wants and desires spontaneous bills by demand of "the people" >could be pretty neat and provide alot of interesting play. It seems to me that the best way to do this would be to somehow tie reality to things which will behave independently, to represent not having total control over the world. Of course, we do want some control over it, so finding a balance may be tricky. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220610600==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [LEG-NOMIC] Howdy and some initial ideas.
1) The players, in addition to shoring up the statutes that govern rulemaking, will hopefully direct themselves to creating a more and more subtle "outside world" for the rules to govern, and more and more subtle ways for MP's to interact with the outside world.  The result is likely to veer drastically from the real world, but it will be a world.  Players may decide to adapt their world toward the real world, or not.
 
We could begin gel up ideas for building the world that we govern. It might be fun to design a county like system that each MP is "elected" from. Give those county populations based on various rules etc and allow those populations to effect the PO on bills.

        One idea I was thinking about would be that instead of having us be MPs, each player would represent a political party.  Then eventually each player's voting power could vary to some extent based on some variant of their political capital.


2) Several ideas were left out of the initial set.  For example, Public Opinion should sometimes propose bills.  These should be vague, something like "we want health care," but the benefits of then proposing a bill labeled "health care" should be great. 
 
We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool idea. I do think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to hold it up though. If we did have some sort of "reality" with people with wants and desires spontaneous bills by demand of "the people" could be pretty neat and provide alot of interesting play.

        It seems to me that the best way to do this would be to somehow tie reality to things which will behave independently, to represent not having total control over the world.  Of course, we do want some control over it, so finding a balance may be tricky.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220610600==_ma============-- From mittnox@y... Sat Jun 02 13:44:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 20:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 53268 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 20:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 20:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mo.egroups.com) (10.1.1.34) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 20:44:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by mo.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2001 20:44:04 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 20:44:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Voting/Polling Message-ID: <9fbj6j+2b07@e...> In-Reply-To: <001201c0eb82$cfa75620$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 744 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Dan Marsh" wrote: > Yahoo! groups has a polling feature, which we can use for voting. Does > anyone object? I don't object as long as the poll-moderator (Your Majesty, for the nonce) posts the results of the vote along with a voting detail showing how each MP voted. In a real legislature, it is my understanding that these details are usually a matter of public record. Perhaps SOME votes, as outlined in our laws, could necessitate secret ballots, but I don't believe this should be the default situation. Also, Captain Infinity and Mittnox are both me. If I slip up and use CI (as I have already done once or twice) forgive me. I want to be known as Mittnox here. Thank you, Mittnox From mittnox@y... Sat Jun 02 14:39:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 21:39:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 44669 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 21:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 21:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 21:39:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2001 21:39:00 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:38:57 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Howdy and some initial ideas. Message-ID: <9fbmdh+dr27@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2797 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Here's some stuff I showed His Majesty when he first proposed L- Nomic... ---------------------------------------------------------- Here are some ideas for modelling PO randomly: Proposals don't have Public Opinion, concepts do. So (this is worded idea-ish, not legal-ish): I. Every key word in the title of each proposal/law has a public opinion rating. The Public Opinion rating of a proposal/law is equal to the average of the public opinion ratings of all keywords in its title. II. Modifications of public opinion through expenditure of political capital affects keywords, not proposals. example: "Government" has a public opinion rating of -23. "Spending" has a PO of 30, and "Healthcare" has a PO of -48. A bill titled "Government Spending on Healthcare" would have -13.667 PO. If a proponent of the bill spent PC to improve the PO of "Healthcare" to -20, the bill's new PO would be -4.333. III. Initially, keywords have a PO of 0 (people need time to form opinions). IV. Each week, PO on each keyword fluctuates randomly +/- 0-10. It then has a 10% chance to fluctuate another 0-10 in the same direction, and a 1% chance to fluctuate another 0-10 in the same direction. (Large random shifts can happen, rarely). V. Each week that no political capital is spent to modify PO on a key word, it's PO automatically shifts by 5 towards 0. (The rule of apathy). VI. A list of current keywords with non-zero political capital will be listed weekly or at the request of any MP. VII. When a proposal is put forth, any MP may suggest a new title (adding or removing keywords). VIII. There could be some measuring scales which measure public well- being. Health, Wealth, Security, Employment, Racial Tension, etc. Bills which affect one or more of the measuring scales would also affect PO for that bill, after the keywords are taken into account. Problems I foresee: I don't know how to totally prevent irrelevant/misleading titles for bills. Maybe along with VII, CFJs could determine whether a proposed title is insufficient/irrelevant/misleading/etc. I don't know how to prevent bill titles from becoming thesauruses (If Healthcare is unpopular, call it the "Government Medical Spending Bill". Or the "Government Wellness Spending Bill." Or the "Government Physicians Payment Plan". There should be some way that synonyms could be linked in PO. Maybe a CFJ could define two keywords as synonyms, possessing the same PO. Certain phrases should be used as keywords instead of the single words therein. For example, Physical Fitness. National Security. Member of Parliament. I don't really have the measuring scale idea worked out well yet. Anyway, just some ideas to think about. -------------------------------------- Ideas? Comments? Mittnox From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 02 14:43:52 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 21:43:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 45575 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 21:43:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 21:43:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 21:43:51 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f52Lho414944 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9fbmdh+dr27@e...> References: <9fbmdh+dr27@e...> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 14:43:48 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Howdy and some initial ideas. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220604265==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220604265==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Well, depending on how we arrange for the economy etc. to actually work, a bill might fall into a given category based on what it actually does rather than the title; so only bills affecting health care rules would be affected by popular opinion on health care. Prefereably, public opinion would take sides too, so that a bill which expanded health care would get +H public opinion while one which shrinks it gets -H. Alternatively or additionally, perhaps the actions of the players could categorize a bill. Maybe instead of taking direct stands on health care, there is instead a public opinion on "Safety" and proponents and opponents of a bill can spend political capital to try to classify a bill as pro-safety or anti-safety. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220604265==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [leg-nomic] Re: Howdy and some initial ideas.
        Well, depending on how we arrange for the economy etc. to actually work, a bill might fall into a given category based on what it actually does rather than the title; so only bills affecting health care rules would be affected by popular opinion on health care.  Prefereably, public opinion would take sides too, so that a bill which expanded health care would get +H public opinion while one which shrinks it gets -H.
        Alternatively or additionally, perhaps the actions of the players could categorize a bill.  Maybe instead of taking direct stands on health care, there is instead a public opinion on "Safety" and proponents and opponents of a bill can spend political capital to try to classify a bill as pro-safety or anti-safety.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220604265==_ma============-- From mittnox@y... Sat Jun 02 16:42:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 2 Jun 2001 23:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 75621 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2001 23:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2001 23:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (208.50.99.225) by mta1 with SMTP; 2 Jun 2001 23:42:11 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.225] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2001 23:42:09 -0000 Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 23:42:07 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Web Polls for PO Message-ID: <9fbtkf+mui5@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1168 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Hey. I inadvertantly posted this on another Yahoo! Group first, so sorry if you're seeing it twice. There are several sites which allow you to create your own web-polls. What if we had a site separate from anything having to do with L- Nomic where we set up web polls for random people to vote on? We could have each poll relate to an L-Nomic proposal, but phrase the question so that people would answer as if they were voting on the real-life equivalent. ie. "Would you support a law which increased government spending on healthcare?" x - Greatly support x - x - x - x - Greatly oppose We could advertise the web-poll site extensively on Usenet, register it with search engines, etc. so that it got hits. (As a matter of fact, we could even base the population of our "realm" on the number of hits the web-poll site got, if we wanted to.) We could leave the polls up for a week or so on each issue to get a good sampling of PO and to dilute the effect of MPs voting on the websites. I'll whip up a sample and try to get some hits this evening, as a demonstration of what I mean. Mittnox From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 02 17:02:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 00:02:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 79840 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 00:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 00:02:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:02:26 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5302M422670 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9fbtkf+mui5@e...> References: <9fbtkf+mui5@e...> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:02:19 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Web Polls for PO Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220595953==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220595953==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I see one major problem with this. How do we make it responsive to what we're doing? If we pass a fantastic health care law but the US passes a horrible one, and then there's a proposal to repeal it, our populace should want to keep it while the voters would probably want to repeal it. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220595953==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Web Polls for PO
        I see one major problem with this.  How do we make it responsive to what we're doing?  If we pass a fantastic health care law but the US passes a horrible one, and then there's a proposal to repeal it, our populace should want to keep it while the voters would probably want to repeal it.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220595953==_ma============-- From ryan_shannon@y... Sat Jun 02 17:26:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 00:26:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 17191 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 00:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 00:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp012.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.32) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:26:37 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:26:37 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <006901c0ebc4$4e8b4000$8ee50418@c...> To: References: <9fbj6j+2b07@e...> Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 18:29:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" Hrm.. Statute 4.6 Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill and publish the results. This says to me that His Majesty should be the one doing the tallying. Perhaps we'de like to modify this as the first order of business to allow for utilizing a non-person vote counting system? -Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling > --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Dan Marsh" wrote: > > Yahoo! groups has a polling feature, which we can use for voting. > Does > > anyone object? > > I don't object as long as the poll-moderator (Your Majesty, for the > nonce) posts the results of the vote along with a voting detail > showing how each MP voted. > > In a real legislature, it is my understanding that these details are > usually a matter of public record. > > Perhaps SOME votes, as outlined in our laws, could necessitate secret > ballots, but I don't believe this should be the default situation. > > Also, Captain Infinity and Mittnox are both me. If I slip up and use > CI (as I have already done once or twice) forgive me. I want to be > known as Mittnox here. > > Thank you, > > Mittnox > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 02 17:32:38 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 00:32:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 30698 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 00:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 00:32:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:32:38 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f530WbH08583 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:32:33 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Possible Proposal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner Since no one's commented on this idea yet, here's a possible bill which I'll propose unless people hate it (this is modeled loosely on what the British do): Create Statute 2.3, reading: Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect part discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders. Create Statute 2.4, reading: Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times. Amend Statute 2.2 to read, in full: A human person who wishes to be seated in Parliament shall communicate his desire to The King. He shall be considered to be seated when The King publishes to all players a statement to that effect; he shall henceforth be designated as a "Member of Parliament" or an "MP." All Members of Parliament collectively, are designated as "Parliament." At this time a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full: Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 02 17:32:39 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 00:32:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 27023 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 00:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 00:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 00:32:39 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f530WcH08586 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:32:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006901c0ebc4$4e8b4000$8ee50418@c...> References: <9fbj6j+2b07@e...> <006901c0ebc4$4e8b4000$8ee50418@c...> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:31:08 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220594137==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220594137==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hrm.. >Statute 4.6 >Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all >Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating >such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has >elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill and publish >the results. > > > >This says to me that His Majesty should be the one doing the tallying. >Perhaps we'de like to modify this as the first order of business to allow >for utilizing a non-person vote counting system? We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the votes on his behalf count as tallying? I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts. But this is by no means unambiguous. Let's set precedent: I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning of Statute 4.6. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220594137==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling
Hrm..
Statute 4.6
Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all
Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating
such vote to The King.  After the voting period defined by statute has
elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill and publish
the results.



This says to me that His Majesty should be the one doing the tallying.
Perhaps we'de like to modify this as the first order of business to allow
for utilizing a non-person vote counting system?

        We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the votes on his behalf count as tallying?  I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts.  But this is by no means unambiguous.  Let's set precedent:

I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning of Statute 4.6.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220594137==_ma============-- From mittnox@y... Sat Jun 02 23:07:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 06:07:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 98032 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 06:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 06:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 06:07:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.30] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2001 06:07:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 06:07:04 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Web Polls for PO Message-ID: <9fck68+6dsh@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1233 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.247.108.105 From: mittnox@y... Well, there are a couple of ways to think about this. We could word a question hypothetically: "Imagine the federal government put into action a comprehensive health care plan that covered everything, allowed you to choose your own doctor, and was totally self-funding (or an analogy for whatever we actually manage to come up with in the game). Then imagine that a bill was presented to do away with that plan. Would you: x - strongly favor doing away with the healthcare plan. x - x - x - x - strongly favor keeping the healthcare plan. Or, we could take the cynical viewpoint that public opinion is not actually swayed by HOW GOOD a law is, but by the spin the issue gets. We'd then modify the actual poll results to account for our use of political capital. Mittnox > I see one major problem with this. How do we make it > responsive to what we're doing? If we pass a fantastic health care > law but the US passes a horrible one, and then there's a proposal to > repeal it, our populace should want to keep it while the voters would > probably want to repeal it. > -- > Henry Towsner > > Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Sat Jun 02 23:58:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 06:58:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 53218 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 06:58:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 06:58:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.112) by mta2 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 06:58:35 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 23:58:35 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: RE: More PO ideas Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 02:59:04 -0400 Message-ID: <004001c0ebfa$ad372e80$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0EBD9.26258E80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2001 06:58:35.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BF65F60:01C0EBFA] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0EBD9.26258E80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0042_01C0EBD9.26258E80" ------=_NextPart_001_0042_01C0EBD9.26258E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 Alternatively or additionally, perhaps the actions of the players could categorize a bill. Maybe instead of taking direct stands on health care, there is instead a public opinion on "Safety" and proponents and opponents of a bill can spend political capital to try to classify a bill as pro-safety or anti-safety. =20 I like this. It seems the most implementable (if that=92s a word) of the ideas along these lines I=92ve heard. What if a bill purely affects Parliament=92s internal workings? PO will be fairly close to zero on these, but not actually zero. But unless someone spends PC to classify such a bill as =93pro-asparagus=94 or something, under this plan PO is pretty likely to remain zero. That brings something else to mind: Can someone spend PC to classify a bill as =93anti-wheelbarrow,=94 when the bil= l has nothing to do with wheelbarrows at all? =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0042_01C0EBD9.26258E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [leg-nomic] Re: Howdy and some initial ideas.

-----Original Message-= ----
From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

   &nb= sp;    Alternatively or additionally, perhaps the actions of the players c= ould categorize a bill.  Maybe instead of taking direct stands on health ca= re, there is instead a public opinion on "Safety" and proponents and opponents of a bill can spend political capital to try to classify a bill a= s pro-safety or anti-safety.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

I like this.  It seems the most implementable (if that=92s a word) of the ideas along these lines I=92ve heard.  What if a bill purely affects Parl= iament=92s internal workings?  PO will be fairly close to zero on these= , but not actually zero.  But unless someone spends PC to classify such a bill as =93pro-asparagus=94 or something, under this plan PO is pretty likely to remain zero.  That brings something else to mind: Can someone spend PC to classify a bill as = =93anti-wheelbarrow,=94 when the bill has nothing to do with wheelbarrows at all?=

 


------=_NextPart_001_0042_01C0EBD9.26258E80-- ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0EBD9.26258E80 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C0EBD9.26258E80-- From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 03 00:23:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 07:23:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 71272 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 07:23:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 07:23:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.110) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 07:23:42 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:23:42 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: RE: Possible Proposal Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 03:24:11 -0400 Message-ID: <005601c0ebfe$2f4a6880$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01C0EBDC.A838C880" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2001 07:23:42.0307 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DF32B30:01C0EBFE] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C0EBDC.A838C880 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0058_01C0EBDC.A838C880" ------=_NextPart_001_0058_01C0EBDC.A838C880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 Since no one's commented on this idea yet, here's a possible=20 bill which I'll propose unless people hate: =20 Good start, I think I see where you=92re going with this. =96Your 2.3 has = a typo (=93perfect part discipline=94), no biggie. My preference is that you= r amendment to 2.2 be a separate rule (2.2.1?), something like =93when a player is first seated in Parliament, a new . . .=94. This rule should also make clear that existing players get seats when the rule is passed. =20 2.2: =93A human . . . shall be considered to be seated when . . .=94 Your amendment: =93a new Political Party with ten Seats . . .=94 =96So does a pa= rty start with ten seats or eleven? =20 This bill would also make Ryan=92s concern about =93the King shall tally=94 moot, since I=92d have to weigh the results according to seats and thus would be tallying votes. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0058_01C0EBDC.A838C880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

      Since no one's commented on this idea yet, here's a possible
bill which I'll propose unless people hate:<= o:p>

 

Good start, I think I see where you=92re going with this.  =96Your 2.3 has a typo (=93perfect part discipline=94), no biggie.  My preference is that your amendme= nt to 2.2 be a separate rule (2.2.1?), something like =93when a player is first seated in Parliament, a new . . .=94. = ; This rule should also make clear that existing players get seats whe= n the rule is passed.

 

2.2: =93A human . . . shall be considered to be seated when . . .=94 = ; Your amendment: =93a new Political Party with ten Seats . . .=94 =96So does a party start with ten seats or eleven?=

 

This bill would also make Ryan=92s concern about =93the King shall tally=94 moot, since I=92d have to weigh the results according to seats and thus would<= /span> be tallying votes.

 


------=_NextPart_001_0058_01C0EBDC.A838C880-- ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C0EBDC.A838C880 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C0EBDC.A838C880-- From htowsner@s... Sun Jun 03 01:14:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 3 Jun 2001 08:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 25251 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2001 08:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2001 08:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 3 Jun 2001 08:14:32 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f538EV414147 for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:14:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004001c0ebfa$ad372e80$70a20741@g...> References: <004001c0ebfa$ad372e80$70a20741@g...> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:14:28 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] RE: More PO ideas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220566425==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220566425==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I like this. It seems the most implementable (if that's a word) of >the ideas along these lines I've heard. What if a bill purely >affects Parliament's internal workings? PO will be fairly close to >zero on these, but not actually zero. But unless someone spends PC >to classify such a bill as "pro-asparagus" or something, under this >plan PO is pretty likely to remain zero. That brings something else >to mind: Can someone spend PC to classify a bill as >"anti-wheelbarrow," when the bill has nothing to do with >wheelbarrows at all? I think that depends on how cynical you are... -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220566425==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [leg-nomic] RE: More PO ideas
I like this.  It seems the most implementable (if that's a word) of the ideas along these lines I've heard.  What if a bill purely affects Parliament's internal workings?  PO will be fairly close to zero on these, but not actually zero.  But unless someone spends PC to classify such a bill as "pro-asparagus" or something, under this plan PO is pretty likely to remain zero.  That brings something else to mind: Can someone spend PC to classify a bill as "anti-wheelbarrow," when the bill has nothing to do with wheelbarrows at all?

        I think that depends on how cynical you are...
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220566425==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 03 22:11:48 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 05:11:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 96415 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 05:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.47) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:11:38 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 00:10:18 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 03:10:47 -0400 Message-ID: <004d01c0ebfc$500a1d60$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <006901c0ebc4$4e8b4000$8ee50418@c...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2001 07:10:18.0158 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EA3C4E0:01C0EBFC] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_004F_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60" ------=_NextPart_001_004F_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...]=20 Hrm.. Statute 4.6 . . . After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill and publish the results. This says to me that His Majesty should be the one doing the tallying. Perhaps we'de like to modify this as the first order of business to allow for utilizing a non-person vote counting system? I don=92t see a huge problem. Votes are communicated to the King via the poll. The definition of =93communication=94 is more-or-less that information is sent, and information is received, and that information is essentially the same. The information (vote) is received by the King because I get the votes from Yahoo!.=20 =20 You may have a point as to me doing the =93tallying,=94 since Yahoo! does that for me. However, I get the votes (the raw material for the tally), too. Maybe I conduct my own count, to make sure Yahoo!=92s count is correct. Then I =93tally all votes.=94 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_004F_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:<= /span>ryan_shannon@y...= ]

Hrm..
Statute 4.6
. . = . After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill and publish the results.

This says to me that His Majesty should be t= he one doing the tallying.  Perhaps we'de like to modify this as the first order of business to = allow for utilizing a non-= person vote counting system?

I don=92t see a huge problem.  Votes are communicated to the King= via the poll.  The definition of = =93communication=94 is more-or-less that information is sent, and information is received, and = that information is essentially the same.  The information (vote) is received by the King because I get the vot= es from Yahoo!.

 

You may have = a point as to me doing the =93tallying,=94 since Yahoo! does that for me.  However, I get the votes (the raw material for the tally), too.  Maybe I conduct my own count, to make sure Yahoo!=92s count is correct.  Then I =93tally all votes.=94=

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'> 


------=_NextPart_001_004F_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60-- ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C0EBDA.C8F87D60-- From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 03 22:14:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 05:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 397 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 05:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 05:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.79) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 05:14:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:13:42 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: [LEG-NOMIC] Poll-votes and RE: Some initial ideas Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:14:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c0eb98$31bb78e0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <010001c0eb93$ce663ae0$8ee50418@c...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2001 19:13:42.0143 (UTC) FILETIME=[230488F0:01C0EB98] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0021_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0021_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First, the polling works. Continue to vote if you=92d like, but I now know what I need to from the test poll. Dates aren=92t stamped on votes, but polls don=92t necessarily close at noon anyway, but =93three days from the publication=94 of the Agenda (Statute 4.7 ). This might be any-old time. =20 I=92m going to use the Yahoo! polling device for voting on bills. As for votes that squeak in, I=92m going to assume that any votes received on the last day of the voting period (generally Wednesday) made it before whatever time is exactly three days from when the Agenda is published. =20 It suddenly occurs to me that Wednesday is the end of the voting period on the last week=92s Agenda, and (as a practical matter) twelve hours later is the deadline for getting bills on the current week=92s Agenda. Since I=92m not here and awake 24/7, the results of the voting might not be posted until it=92s too late to do anything about it this week. I=92d suggest that the operative statutes to give attention to, if someone wants to change this, are 4.5 and 4.7 (mostly 4.5 ). =20 Anyway, suggestions for the ruleset have come in already: =20 -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...]=20 We could begin gel up ideas for building the world that we govern. It might be fun to design a county like system that each MP is "elected" from. Give those county populations based on various rules etc and allow those populations to effect the PO on bills. =20 We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool idea. I do think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to hold it up though. If we did have some sort of "reality" with people with wants and desires spontaneous bills by demand of "the people" could be pretty neat and provide alot of interesting play. =20 Great: these types of ideas are exactly what I hoped to see us pursue. Of course, it=92s easy enough for each MP to say that he=92s from a particular district / riding / constituency, but to give those districts particular attributes (=93reality=94) I think is far tougher. I=92m eager = to see what you come up with. =20 As for spontaneous desires: One of my goals, as I said in my comments, is that eventually Public Opinion should be modelled entirely within the rules, that is, that PO is no longer human. But while PO is human, I see it as essentially a role to be played. So, if Parliament gives PO the ability to =93spontaneously=94 propose bills, I=92m willing to play the role of a confused, apathetic, polarized, or whatever citizenry. But it would be cooler if it came spontaneously from the rules. =20 3) We could being to chip away the almighty powers of our soveriegn. :) Seriously though, the king does have a tremendous amount of responsibility and it may be beneficial to everyone to establish offices and posts within the Parliament. =20 I support this effort as well. Most of the King=92s =93administrative=94 roles are properly (historically or whatever) the function of Parliament itself, but for simplicity=92s sake I chose not to create a bunch of positions or offices in the initial set. Feel free to do so; I won=92t take offense. If you can get the King=92s duties whittled down far enough, and figure out a way to model PO so it=92s not a human, then there=92s no gameplay reason why the King can=92t himself be seated in Parliament. =20 By the way, as I said in the comments Ryan referred to, I used a parliamentary system in the initial set because we=92d then not need an upper house (Senate). But I=92m an American; I have no direct experience with a parliamentary system. If any of our players do, feel more than free to correct us as to =93the way it oughtta be.=94 Or, if we are able t= o get a good number of players, MPs might choose to change the system over to an American-style Congressional system. =20 (It=92s interesting having only administrative power: I have ideas how to shape the ruleset, but (notwithstanding =A71.2 ) no real power to do it. I really am interested to see how this game develops.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0021_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First, the polling works.=A0 Continue to vote if you’d like,= but I now know what I need to from the test poll.=A0 Dates aren’t stamped on votes, but polls don’t necessari= ly close at noon a= nyway, but “three days from the publication” of the Agenda (Sta= tute 4.7).=A0 This might be any-old time.

 

I’m going to use the Yahoo! polling device for voting on bills.=A0 As for votes that squeak = in, I’m going to assume that any votes received on the last day of the voting perio= d (generally Wednesday) made it before whatever time is exactly three days fr= om when the Agenda is published.

 

It suddenly occurs to me that Wednesday is the end of the voting pe= riod on the last week’s Agenda, and (as a practical matter) twelve hours l= ater is the deadline for getting bills on the current week’s Agenda.=A0 Since I’m not here and awake 24= /7, the results of the voting might not be posted until it’s too late to do anything about it this week.=A0 I&#= 8217;d suggest that the operative statutes to give attention to, if someone wants to chang= e this, are 4.5 and 4= .7 (mostly 4.5).

 

Anyway, suggestions for the ruleset have come in already:

 

-----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:<= /span>ryan_shannon@y...= ]

We could begin gel up ideas for building the wor= ld that we govern. It might be fun to design a county like system that each MP= is "elected" from. Give those county populations based on various ru= les etc and allow those populations to effect the PO on bills.

 

We could pursue the design of PO which IMHO is a unique and cool idea. I do think it would benefit with some sort of "reality" to hold it up though. If we did have some sort = of "reality" with people with wants and desires spontaneous bills by demand of "the people" could be pretty neat and provide alot of interesting play.

 

Great: these types of ideas are exactly what I hoped to see us pursue.=A0 Of course, it’s ea= sy enough for each MP to say that = he’s from a particular district / riding / constituency, but to give those districts particular attributes (“reality”) I think is far toug= her.=A0 I’m eager to see what you come = up with.

 

As for spontaneous desires: One of my goals, as I said in my commen= ts, is that eventually Public Opinion should be modelled entirely within the rules, that is, that PO is no longer human.=A0 But while PO= is human, I see it as essentially a = role to be played.=A0 So, if Parliament = gives PO the ability to “spontaneously” propose bills, I’m willing= to play the role of a confused, apathetic, polarized, or whatever citizenry.=A0 But it would be cooler if it came spontaneously from the rules.

 

3) We could being to chip away the almighty powers of our soveriegn. :) Seriously though, the king does have a tremendous amount of responsibility and it may be benefici= al to everyone to establish offices and posts within the Parliament.

 

I support this effort as well.=A0 Most of the King’s “administrative” roles are prop= erly (historically or whatever) the function of Parliament itself, but for simplicity’s sake I chose not to create a bunch of positions or offic= es in the initial set.=A0 Feel free to= do so; I won’t take offense.=A0 If y= ou can get the King’s duties whittled down far enough, and figure out a way = to model PO so it’s not a human, then there’s no gameplay reason why the King can’t himself be seated in Parliament.=

 

By the way, as I said in the comments Ryan referred to, I used a parliamentary system in the initial set because we’d then not need an upper house (Senate).=A0 But I̵= 7;m an American; I have no direct experience with a parliamentary system.=A0 If any of our players do, feel more than free to correct us as to “the way it oughtta be.”=A0 Or, if we are able to= get a good number of players, MPs might choose to change the system over to an American-style Congressional system.

 

(It’s interesting having only administrative power:=A0 I have ideas how to shape the ruleset, but (notwithstanding =A71.2)= no real power to do it.=A0 I really am interested to see how this game develops.)

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>= =A0


------=_NextPart_001_0021_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C0EB76.AAA9D8E0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 03 23:29:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 06:29:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 3802 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 06:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 06:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 06:29:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010604062927.TOJG12680.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:29:27 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Seated in Parliament Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:29:12 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c0ecbf$ab636360$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0EC9E.2451C360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0EC9E.2451C360 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0EC9E.2451C360" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0EC9E.2451C360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome to Madison, our newest member. You may now be seated. =20 We also have another subscriber to the mailing list, KevanDavis, but at this point I don=92t know whether he is to be seated in Parliament or is just an observer. (I could assume the former, of course, but I won=92t.) =20 Keep those ideas coming, some actual bills would be nice too. =20 I keep getting =93delay notifications=94 from Hotmail for some reason, and my responses seem to take a while, but they get there. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0EC9E.2451C360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Welcome to Madison, our newest member.  You may now be seated.<= /span>

 

We also have another subscriber to the mailing list, KevanDavis, but at this point I d= on=92t know whether he is to be seated in Parliament or is just an observer.  (I could assume the former, of cou= rse, but I won=92t.)

 

Keep those ideas com= ing, some actual bills would be nice too.

 

I keep getting =93delay notifications=94 from Hotmail for some reason, and my responses seem to take a while, but th= ey get there.

 

------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C0EC9E.2451C360-- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0EC9E.2451C360 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0EC9E.2451C360-- From mittnox@y... Mon Jun 04 13:07:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 20:07:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 69934 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 17:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 17:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ck.egroups.com) (10.1.2.83) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 17:58:21 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.63] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2001 17:58:21 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:58:16 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Seated in Parliament: The Game is Afoot! Message-ID: <9fgi7o+tvgc@e...> In-Reply-To: <000601c0eb80$f18c0300$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 709 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > We have five, > so the game is afoot. I hereby propose the following bill: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Founder's Day Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 14:09:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 21:09:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 71189 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 20:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 20:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta3 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 20:47:04 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010604204702.VUS12680.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:47:02 -0700 To: Subject: Bill 1 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:47:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000701c0ed37$93d0e920$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0ED16.0CBF4920" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9fgi7o+tvgc@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0ED16.0CBF4920 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C0ED16.0CC870E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C0ED16.0CC870E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 1 has been submitted (finally). Initial Public Opinion on this bill, a patriotic bill written soon after the Founding of our new nation, is 30. =20 -----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]=20 =20 I hereby propose the following bill: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Founder's Day Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Might I ask, Mittnox, what you mean by the second paragraph? Is it that whatever PO a bill gets assigned initially is automatically +10? Or is it that every recalculation of PO has a +10 effect in addition to its normal effect? (Some heinous bills could be passed next year if it=92s the latter, but that might be the point.) =20 Also, the rules don=92t make this a huge deal, but the bill suggests no statute number. If it passes, I get to assign one, which is fine, but I might place it elsewhere than would you. (I really have no objection to game custom being that I assign statute numbers, if that=92s the way Parliament wants to go. The ruleset might then be less chaotic, after a few months of additions and subtractions.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor =20 Check out great fares at Orbitz! =20 =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C0ED16.0CC870E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill 1 has been submitted (finally).  Initial Public Opinion on this bil= l, a patriotic bill written soon after the Founding of our new nation, is 30.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]
 
I = hereby propose the following bill:
--= ------------------------------------------------------------------
Fo= under's Day

He= nceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized= as the birthday of Legislative Nomic.

Du= e to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modi= fied by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day.

Al= l MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day.

Fo= under's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder'= s Day.
--= ------------------------------------------------------------------

Might I ask, Mittnox, what you mean by = the second paragraph?  Is it that whatever PO a bill gets assigned initi= ally is automatically +10?  Or is i= t that every recalculation of PO= has a +10 effect in addition to its normal effect?  (Some heinous bills could be passe= d next year if it=92s the latter, but that might be the point.)

 

Also, the rules don=92t make this a huge deal, but the bill suggests no statute number.  I= f it passes, I get to assign one, which is fine, but I might place it elsewhere = than would you.  (I really have no objection to game custom being that I assign statute numbers, if that=92s the way Parliament wants to go.  The ruleset might then be less chaotic, after a few months of additions and subtractions.)




To unsubscribe from t= his group, send an email to:
leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=



Yo= ur use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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Mon Jun 04 14:44:57 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 21:44:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 13743 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 21:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 21:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c3.egroups.com) (10.1.10.50) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 21:37:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.74] by c3.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2001 21:37:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:37:55 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 1 Message-ID: <9fgv3j+9nke@e...> In-Reply-To: <000701c0ed37$93d0e920$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1445 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and > then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. [snip] > Might I ask, Mittnox, what you mean by the second paragraph? Is it that > whatever PO a bill gets assigned initially is automatically +10? Or is > it that every recalculation of PO has a +10 effect in addition to its > normal effect? (Some heinous bills could be passed next year if it's > the latter, but that might be the point.) My intent was that an initial PO would be calculated normally and then 10 would be added. Further adjustments, due to political capital, etc., would then occur normally (ie one +10 per bill). > Also, the rules don't make this a huge deal, but the bill suggests no > statute number. If it passes, I get to assign one, which is fine, but I > might place it elsewhere than would you. (I really have no objection to > game custom being that I assign statute numbers, if that's the way > Parliament wants to go. The ruleset might then be less chaotic, after a > few months of additions and subtractions.) I have no problem with you assigning a Statute number for this bill. I don't see an appropriate section for this bill (Courts, since it sets up a Court holiday? Public Opinion, since it affects PO?) Maybe there should be a new section, Miscellanea or something. I don't know how one would go about setting up a new section. Mittnox From ryan_shannon@y... Mon Jun 04 15:21:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 22:21:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 30036 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 22:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 22:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ho.egroups.com) (10.1.2.219) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 22:21:26 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by ho.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2001 22:21:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:21:25 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 1 Message-ID: <9fh1l5+r3cu@e...> In-Reply-To: <000701c0ed37$93d0e920$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 850 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... > > Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and > then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps modifying the above to something like: Due to patriotic fervor, each bill's Public Opinion shall gain a one time increase of +10 PO. This increase shall not set the bill's PO greater than 50. ------------------------------------------------------------------ I'de like to suggest that we use some sort of protoposal discussion for bills. As this bill sits, my constituants require me vote it down simply because the above line item is confusing. Presubmission discussion could cut down on needless bill creation. I feel we'de also benefit from a bill numbering law. I'll write a proposal up later tonight. --Ryan From htowsner@s... Mon Jun 04 15:34:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 22:34:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 59551 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 22:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 22:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 22:34:43 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54MYg407460 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:34:40 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Possible Proposal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner Final draft: Create Statute 2.3, reading: Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders. Create Statute 2.4, reading: Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times. Create Statute 2.2.1, reading: When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full: Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. Create a new Political Party for each player, each with then Seats in Parliament. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From ryan_shannon@y... Mon Jun 04 15:45:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 22:45:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 90745 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 22:45:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 22:45:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 22:45:18 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.2.28] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2001 22:45:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:45:16 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 1 Message-ID: <9fh31s+2f5t@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fh1l5+r3cu@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1502 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... > I feel we'de also benefit from a bill numbering law. I'll write a > proposal up later tonight. > In hindsight while we do have a numbering system for bills and statute, the statutes portion is a bit vague as to how the statutes are numbered. "Statute 3.3 Each statute shall have a number for reference; all statutes with the same statute number shall be considered to compose the same statute. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players." While our majesty is one of considerable honesty and integrity a less ethical monarch could assign a new statue the same number as an existing one and cause all kinds of noise and headaches. It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for our statutes. The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it): X = Logical rule group division Y = Logical subdivision Z = if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incremented and Y is set to 9 (bleh) Perhaps an amendment to 3.3 that: 1) asks our king to find the correct Logical division for the new statute 2) Assigns the next available logical subdivider identifier. 3) renumbers the three or four bills that have the Z identifier to their correct, sequential X.Y assignment. This is a tricky one but one I think we'll be glad to have dealt with while our MP count is small. --Ryan From htowsner@s... Mon Jun 04 15:51:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 4 Jun 2001 22:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 98981 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2001 22:51:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 4 Jun 2001 22:51:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1 with SMTP; 4 Jun 2001 22:51:04 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f54Mp4H09808 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9fh31s+2f5t@e...> References: <9fh31s+2f5t@e...> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:51:01 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220427432==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220427432==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for >our statutes. > >The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it): >X = Logical rule group division >Y = Logical subdivision >Z = if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incremented and Y is set to 9 >(bleh) I've always been a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to only two or even three layers. My experience has been that it is often helpful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth (Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places). -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220427432==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 1
It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for
our statutes.

The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it):
X = Logical rule group division
Y = Logical subdivision
Z = if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incremented and Y is set to 9
(bleh)

        I've always been a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to only two or even three layers.  My experience has been that it is often helpful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth  (Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places).
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220427432==_ma============-- From ryan_shannon@y... Mon Jun 04 19:08:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:08:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 41964 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp010.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.30) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:08:04 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:08:04 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <012e01c0ed64$c93637a0$8ee50418@c...> To: Subject: Proto-bills Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:11:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012B_01C0ED32.7E5D10F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C0ED32.7E5D10F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- *******************Bill Text******************************* Proto-Bill #1 Title: Blessed Organization Amend Statute 3.3 to read: Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute may have the sam= e number as another statute. All statutes shall be labeled in the following manner: Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute" Where X is the number of the section the statute belongs in as chosen by th= e King, Y is the statute's=20 unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is the name= of the statute proposed in the bill.=20 ********************End Bill Text************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- *******************Bill Text******************************* Proto-Bill #2 Title: Self Repealing Amend statute 4.9.1 to change its number to read 4.10 Amend statute 4.9.2 to change its number to read 4.11 After the following two items have taken effect this bill repeals itself. ********************End Bill Text************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- I'm sure these have glaring bugs but its a start... Comments?=20 --Ryan ------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C0ED32.7E5D10F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------
*******************Bill=20 Text*******************************
Proto-Bill #1
Title: Blessed Organization
Amend Statute 3.3 to read:
 
Ea= ch statute=20 shall have a number for reference. No statute may have the same number as=20 another statute.
 
All statutes shall be labeled in the follo= wing=20 manner:
 
Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute"
 
Where X is the number of the section = the=20 statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's
unique, sequential, reference number, and = "Name=20 of the Statute" is the name of the statu= te=20 proposed in the bill.
 
********************End Bill=20 Text*************************
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------
 
*******************Bill=20 Text*******************************
Proto-Bill #2
Title: Self Repealing
 
Amend statute 4.9.1 to change its number t= o read=20 4.10
Amend statute 4.9.2 to change its number t= o read=20 4.11
After the following two items have taken e= ffect=20 this bill repeals itself.
 
********************End Bill=20 Text*************************
 
------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------
 
I'm sure these have glaring bugs but = its a=20 start... Comments?
 
--Ryan
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_012B_01C0ED32.7E5D10F0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 19:15:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 62478 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:15:31 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605021527.VSFN13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:15:27 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Final Draft Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:15:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c0ed65$5519ae00$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 =20 Final draft: . . . Create Statute 2.2.1, reading: When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political=20 Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally=20 by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as=20 Party Leader. . . . Create a new Political Party for each player, each with then Seats in=20 Parliament. -- Aside from the minor typo in the last part of this bill (=93then seats=94), I don=92t think it=92s currently a legal provision (=93segment=94) of a bil= l. =A74.4 provides that =93A bill may include one or more proposals to create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court.=94 The last provision of your proto-bill does neither. My suggestion: fold your last provision into your 2.2.1, something like =93At the time of the passage of this bill, a new Political Party shall be created for each player as if he was newly seated in Parliament.=94 ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

 

Final draft:
. . .
Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:
      When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political =
Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally
by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as
Party Leader.
. . .
Create a new Political Party for each player, each with then Seats in
Parliament.
--

Aside from the minor typo in the last pa= rt of this bill (“then seats”), I don’t think it’s currently a legal provision (“segment”) of a bill.=A0 =A74.4 provides that “A bill may include one or more proposals to cre= ate, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute, or to overturn one or mor= e Rulings of The Court.”=A0 The= last provision of your proto-bill does neither.=A0 My suggestion: fold your last provision into your 2.2.1, something like “= ;At the time of the passage of this bill, a new Political Party shall be create= d for each player as if he was newly seated in Parliament.”<= /font>


=

------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C0ED43.CE0FAF20-- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C0ED43.CE080E00-- From htowsner@s... Mon Jun 04 19:19:46 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 77956 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:19:45 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f552JiH11317 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <012e01c0ed64$c93637a0$8ee50418@c...> References: <012e01c0ed64$c93637a0$8ee50418@c...> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:19:42 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Proto-bills Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220414911==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220414911==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >*******************Bill Text******************************* >Proto-Bill #1 >Title: Blessed Organization >Amend Statute 3.3 to read: > >Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute may have >the same number as another statute. > >All statutes shall be labeled in the following manner: > >Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute" > >Where X is the number of the section the statute belongs in as >chosen by the King, Y is the statute's >unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is >the name of the statute proposed in the bill. > >********************End Bill Text************************* I really prefer to have nested rules. I would vote against this as it stands now. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220414911==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Proto-bills
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*******************Bill Text*******************************
Proto-Bill #1
Title: Blessed Organization
Amend Statute 3.3 to read:
 
Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute may have the same number as another statute.
 
All statutes shall be labeled in the following manner:
 
Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute"
 
Where X is the number of the section the statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's
unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is the name of the statute proposed in the bill.
 
********************End Bill Text*************************

        I really prefer to have nested rules.  I would vote against this as it stands now.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220414911==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 19:24:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 83700 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:24:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605022427.WFDF13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:24:27 -0700 To: Subject: Re: Bill 1 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:24:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c0ed66$962925a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for our statutes. The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it): X =3D Logical rule group division Y =3D Logical subdivision Z =3D if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incremented and Y is set to 9 I've always been a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to only two or even three layers. My experience has been that it is often helpful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth (Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places). =20 I agree. I think Ryan misread my intent when I numbered the initial set; =A7=A74.9.1=962 aren=92t 4.10 and 4.11, they are statutes =93below=94 = =A74.9. One of my past Nomics (Gnomic, which died for no good reason) dispensed entirely with rule =93numbers;=94 we used stuff like =93judgment.overturnin= g,=94 with multiple levels of hierarchy. That seemed entirely new to me when it was proposed; was it?=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 1

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

It also seems we have a basic (yet tricky) organizational method for our statutes.


The format is 'X.Y.Z' where (as I read it):<= /font>

X =3D Logical rule group division<= /tt>
Y =3D Logical subdivision
Z =3D if the Y is greater than 10 Z, is incr= emented and Y is set to 9


        I've always been= a fan of hierarchical rulesets, and I see no reason to limit ourselves to onl= y two or even three layers.  My experience has been that it is often hel= pful to be able to sort things to an arbitrary depth  (= Macronomic had five levels of depth in a few places).

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> 

I agree.=A0 I think Ryan misread my intent when I numbered the initial set; =A7= =A74.9.1–2 aren’t 4.10 and 4.11, they are statutes “below” =A74.9.=A0 One of my past N= omics (Gnomic, which died for no good reason) dispensed entirely with rule “= ;numbers;” we used stuff like “judgment.overturning,= ” with multiple levels of hierarchy.=A0 That seemed entirely new to me when it was proposed; was it?<= span style=3D'color:navy'>

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>

------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C0ED45.0F1785A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C0ED45.0F1785A0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 04 19:48:26 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 02:48:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 32044 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 02:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 02:48:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 02:48:05 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605024800.XLNK13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:48:00 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Proto-bills Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c0ed69$de83c320$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C0ED48.57722320" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <012e01c0ed64$c93637a0$8ee50418@c...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C0ED48.57722320 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01C0ED48.57722320" ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C0ED48.57722320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...]=20 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------- *******************Bill Text******************************* Proto-Bill #1 Title: Blessed Organization Amend Statute 3.3 to read: =20 All statutes shall be labeled in the following manner: =20 Statute X.Y -- "Name of the Statute" =20 Where X is the number of the section the statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's=20 unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is the name of the statute proposed in the bill.=20 =20 ********************End Bill Text************************* =20 A previous message discussed multiple levels of hierarchy. I agree with Henry that they=92re A Good Thing for organizational purposes. Of course, if Parliament wants to stick to two levels I can=92t do much about it. In any case, what=92s your conception of your =93Y?=94 Is it equivalent to the Bill number, sort of like rule numbers in the Suber set? Calling them =93sequential=94 intimates that might be your intent. Or do you merel= y mean one can=92t assign 9.3 if 9.2 isn=92t yet assigned? In the latter case, what if 9.2 exists, but is later repealed? Does 9.3 renumber? What if 9.2 doesn=92t exist now, but it used to? Should the number be reassigned? (In the latter case my understanding is that in real compilations of statutes, repealed statute numbers generally don=92t get reassigned.) =20 *******************Bill Text******************************* Proto-Bill #2 Title: Self Repealing =20 Amend statute 4.9.1 to change its number to read 4.10 Amend statute 4.9.2 to change its number to read 4.11 After the following two items have taken effect this bill repeals itself. =20 ********************End Bill Text************************* =20 I mentioned in a previous message that I think you misread my intent in numbering =A7=A74.9.1=962. However, I=92ll point out that the =93self-repe= aling=94 nature of this proto-bill is unnecessary. Renumbering a bill is pretty clearly (to my mind) an amendment of it, which a bill is allowed to do (we don=92t have to first enact a Statute). If we did have to enact a statute, the self-repealing might be appropriate. Different people have different opinions of self-repealing text, but it strikes me as =93poor form,=94 something to be avoided. =20 By the way, when I express a preference like that, it=92s in my capacity as The King, not necessarily as Public Opinion. I=92m schizophrenic enough that I can have differing opinions under each of my titles. Public Opinion strikes me as much more of a role to be played. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C0ED48.57722320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message----- From: Ryan Shannon [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...= om]
=A0

------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------------------------------------------------------

*******************Bill Text*******************************

Proto-Bill #1

Title: Blessed Organization

Amend Statute 3.3 to read= :

 

All statutes shall be labeled = in the following manner:

 

Statute X.Y -- "Name of t= he Statute"

 

Where X is the number of = the section the statute belongs in as chosen by the King, Y is the statute's

unique, sequential, reference number, and "Name of the Statute" is the name of the statute prop= osed in the bill.

 

********************End Bill T= ext*************************

 

A previous message discussed multiple le= vels of hierarchy.=A0 I agree with Henry= that they’re A Good Thing for organizational purposes.=A0 Of course, if Parliament wants to sti= ck to two levels I can’t do much about it.

In any case, what’s your conception of your “Y?”=A0 Is it equivalent to the Bill number, = sort of like rule numbers in the Suber set?=A0 Calling them R= 20;sequential” intimates that might be your intent.=A0 Or do you merely mean one can’t assign 9.3 if 9.2 isn’t yet assigned?=A0 In the latter case, what if 9.2 exists, but is later repealed?=A0 Does 9.3 renumber?=A0 What if 9.2 doesn̵= 7;t exist now, but it used to?=A0 Shoul= d the number be reassigned?=A0 (In the la= tter case my understanding is that in real compilations of statutes, repealed statute numbers generally don’t get reassigned.)

 

*******************Bill Text*******************************

Proto-Bill #2

Title: Self Repealing

 

Amend statute 4.9.1 to change = its number to read 4.10

Amend statute 4.9.2 to change = its number to read 4.11

After the following two items = have taken effect this bill repeals itself.

 

********************End Bill Text*************************

 

I mentioned in a previous message that I think you misread my intent in numbering =A7=A74.9.1–2.=A0 However, I’ll point out that th= e “self-repealing” nature of this proto-bill is unnecessary.= =A0 Renumbering a bill is pretty clearly (to my mind) an amendment of it= , which a bill is allowed to do (we don’t have to first enact a Statute).=A0 If we did have to enact a statute, th= e self-repealing might be appropriate.=A0 Different = people have different opinions of self-repealing text, but it strikes me as “= ;poor form,” something to be avoided.

 

By the way, when I express a preference = like that, it’s in my capacity as The King, not necessarily as Public Opinion.=A0 I’m schizophrenic= enough that I can have differing opinions under each of my titles.=A0 Public Opinion strikes me as much mor= e of a role to be played.

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'> 

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Welcome to the player =93dsbakerus,=94 as he is currently known.  You= may now take your seat in Parliament.

 

I should mention perhaps that we have several Nomic Newbies among us (including our newest MP).  Feel free, whenever one of the =93= old hands,=94 or whatever we are, mention something in passing (=93Suber set,=94 =93Agora,=94 =93Hofstadter,=94 whatever), to call him on it =96 WTF is =93Hofstadter=94?

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_002F_01C0ED49.F6917FE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0ED49.F6917FE0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C0ED49.F6917FE0-- From sp4mnet@h... Mon Jun 04 22:59:16 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sp4mnet@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 05:59:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 8780 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 05:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 05:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.21.173) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 05:59:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:59:15 -0700 Received: from 128.12.54.84 by lw14fd.law14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Jun 2001 05:59:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [128.12.54.84] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Bill proposal: Proposals Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:59:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2001 05:59:15.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6FE6610:01C0ED84] From: "Ball Turret" In the previous discussion, several ideas were discussed, all under the topic of "Bill 1," or the rather ambiguous "proto-bill 1." Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me that only the "Founder's Day" proposal has been officially submitted to and published by our King as under statute 4.1 (as bill 1). Statute 4.2 states that each bill is given a unique identifier. It does not specify by whom. Perhaps it would help things if we create a status of "proposal." Proposals would not have numbers, only names (which would avoid confusion in discussion) assigned by the author(s). A proposal will become a bill once it is submitted to the king and published to all players. Only the king would be able to assign numbers to a bill. That way, we could discuss ideas for bills before they are officially submitted without confusing them with each other, or actual bills. Ball Turret _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sallyvacuum@y... Mon Jun 04 23:12:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 06:12:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 20388 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 06:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 06:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.47) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 06:12:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.2.11] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2001 06:12:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 06:12:40 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill proposal: Proposals: "In Committee" Message-ID: <9fht8o+d5go@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1232 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.161.172.1 From: sallyvacuum@y... I don't know that creating a whole new status for proposals is necessary. Why not just say "I'm considering submitting a bill for this purpose, and here's the language I suggest. Any comments?" Other MP's could offer their opinion here, and when the author is satisfied with a version of a bill, he submits it to the King. This effectively models a Bill being in committee, or on the table and open to discussion. It's entirely possible, as in real-world government, that such proposed bills might never be submitted to the King as an actual Bill, i.e. they die in committee. See my next post for just such a proposed bill. Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Ball Turret" wrote: > > Perhaps it would help things if we create a status of "proposal." Proposals > would not have numbers, only names (which would avoid confusion in > discussion) assigned by the author(s). A proposal will become a bill once > it is submitted to the king and published to all players. Only the king > would be able to assign numbers to a bill. > > That way, we could discuss ideas for bills before they are officially > submitted without confusing them with each other, or actual bills. > > Ball Turret > > From sallyvacuum@y... Mon Jun 04 23:36:47 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 06:36:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 56641 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 06:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 06:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 06:36:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.10.117] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2001 06:36:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 06:36:43 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proposal for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege Message-ID: <9fhulr+72uc@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1935 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.161.172.1 From: sallyvacuum@y... Take a look at Statute 1.2 in the rules. Or don't, because I'm about to print the applicable part. The first sentence reads "The King may, in times of great crisis (by his definition), dissolve Parliament by publish a statement to that effect to all Members of Parliament." The word "publish" should probably be "publishing", or the sentence doesn't make grammatic sense. (Yes, I know, I nitpick. Get used to it:) ) The King should have the power to dissolve Parliament, but the way this statute currently exists means he may not. I was just going to inform His Majesty of the misprint, but I think fixing it outside the scope of the game would be granting the King an unreasonably broad scope of Royal Powers. Errors in the body of laws should be corrected by Parliament. Therefore, I suggest this bill: ---------------- Statute 3.5.1 - Royal Editing Privilege The King may edit Statutes, or Bills on the Agenda or Parliament, for clarity or grammar. All such Royal Edits must be published by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Agenda of Parliament. Each Royal Edit must list the Statute or Bill both in its original and corrected forms, and delineate the reason for the Royal Edit. A Royal Edit becomes effective immediately upon its publication. Any Member of Parliament may appeal a Royal Edit by bringing a Case before the Court. Such appeals shall be decided in a timely fashion in the manner consistent with other Cases before the Court. -------------------- Suggestions? Comments? I don't know about the second paragraph - obviously our King is a monarch of exceeding wisdom and jutice, but we don't want him changing the laws willy-nilly. Perhaps we should have a stronger power to undo Royal edits than just bringing a Case before the Court. I will subit this bill to the King for next week's Agenda unless strenuous objections arise. Cappocchi From sallyvacuum@y... Mon Jun 04 23:42:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 74622 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.10.105] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 05 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 06:42:04 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Public Opinion and Authorship Message-ID: <9fhuvs+7rnr@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 577 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.161.172.1 From: sallyvacuum@y... A thought for the future - perhaps the Political Capital reward/penalty for a particular bil should be higher for the author of the Bill in question. MP Ball Turret would have a lot more riding on "the Ball Turret Mining Bill" that every other MP who votes on it, wouldn't he? Perhaps when the Public Opinion/Political Capital machine is operating smoothly, we could consider declaring Authors (or co-authors?) of all/some/important Bills, and rewarding or penalizing the authors more when they pass or fail. Maybe 1.5 times the PC amount, or double the PC amount? From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 01:09:27 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 08:09:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 82275 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 08:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 08:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 08:09:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605080926.KEYL13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:09:26 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:08:34 -0400 Message-ID: <003c01c0ed96$b7e21be0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8019F268A32CD211A4A900805FADBE94347C5A@B...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" -----Original Message----- From: Dylan Baker [mailto:dbaker@b...] Are you still looking for players? I have a number of lawyer friends and several friends who work on The Hill who may by interested. ------- Indeed, for this type of game you can't have too many players. Invite away, we'd love to have 'em. (Well, actually there can be too many. If we had a single discussion list for all 535 congressmen things could get ugly. Big games tend to have administrative responsibilities spread around, and a bunch of discussion lists. I think. In my first Nomic (Ackanomic, ca. 1996) I broke when there were 100 messages a day on the single discussion list. (Actually, when I first joined there wasn't even a discussion list: we had to put each other player in our To: line, each time.) ) Do you wish to remain "dsbakerus"? Or do you want to be Dylan or Dylan Baker? DM From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 01:33:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 08:33:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 95379 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 08:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 08:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 08:33:58 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010605083357.KYOJ13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:33:57 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Proposal for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 04:33:02 -0400 Message-ID: <004401c0ed9a$22c73140$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9fhulr+72uc@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0046_01C0ED78.9BB59140" ------=_NextPart_001_0046_01C0ED78.9BB59140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92m debating the wisdom of continuing to comment on proto-bills. Nomically speaking, I favor a weak administrator/speaker/moderator/king, or even none at all. I=92m wondering if continuing to comment on bills and proto-bills is too much of a power grab, if my footprint is then too heavy on the ruleset (statute-set). There are historical precedents, of course, such as the actual strength of the U.S. President even when his constitutional role is small. =20 Fortunately Cappochi brings up the very question of royal prerogatives in a small manner so that we can discuss what they should be. =20 -----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y... [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:37 AM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Proposal for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege =20 Take a look at Statute 1.2 . . . The King should have the power to dissolve Parliament, but=20 the way this statute currently exists means he may not. =20 Statute 1.2 almost got left out of the initial set. It=92s designed to be an =93escape hatch,=94 for when the game irrecoverably crashes. My hope is that neither I nor a future King ever need use it. Historically speaking the King should be able to dissolve Parliament, but Nomically speaking, escape hatches can be trouble. A commentator on nomic.net worried that the escape hatch might lead to Imperial Nomic, and that possibility does exist. =20 I didn=92t put mutable and immutable rules in the initial set. If Parliament wishes to write a =93constitution,=94 though, they can decide ho= w mutable 1.2 ought to be. Or get rid of it entirely. =20 Suggestions? Comments? I don't know about the second paragraph -=20 obviously our King is a monarch of exceeding wisdom and jutice, but=20 we don't want him changing the laws willy-nilly.=20=20 =20 A court case strikes me as just about right. Questions: Should Royal Edits be numbered and archived? Or should statutes be annotated with edits? Or should edits erase the original form of the bill (which strikes me as somehow Orwellian)? Food for thought. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0046_01C0ED78.9BB59140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
------=_NextPart_001_0046_01C0ED78.9BB59140-- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0ED78.9BB59140-- From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 05 16:51:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 44750 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 5 Jun 2001 23:51:05 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f55Np4421736 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:51:00 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Another proto-proposal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner After some thought on the subject of self-deleting text, I thought the following might be desirable: Create Statute 4.10, reading Acts of Parliament are documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution. No creation of an Act of Parliament is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the time of execution. An Act of Parliament consists of one or more proposals. Each Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference. The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unless that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which had just passed with a majority of votes. Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority to take effect. Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full A bill may include one or more proposals. Each proposal is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following: 1) Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute 2) Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court 3) Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament 4) Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rules provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action. Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full A bill or bill segment which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill or bill segment which creates, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private. Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full A bill or bill segment which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 19:29:43 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 80892 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 02:29:37 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606022927.KZGO13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:29:27 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Where are we? Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: <004e01c0ee30$362af640$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640" ------=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A thought occurred to me a bit ago =96 what=92s the name of this land we rule? =20 I=92ll let you come up with suggestions. I suggest something along the lines of the names of most old-world countries, whose names translate to =93The place us people live.=94 (The land of the Angles, Angle-land, England.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A thought occurred to me a bit ago =96 what=92s the name of this land we rule?

 

I=92ll let you come up with suggestions.  I suggest someth= ing along the lines of the names of most old-world countries, whose names trans= late to =93The place us people live.=94  (The land of the Angles, Angle-land, England.)

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0050_01C0EE0E.AF195640-- ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C0EE0E.AF195640-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 20:48:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 03:48:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 52936 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 03:48:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 03:48:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 03:48:41 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606034840.PLIM13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:48:40 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Seated in Parliament Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:46:23 -0400 Message-ID: <006d01c0ee3b$41dc1f40$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_006F_01C0EE19.BACA7F40" ------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C0EE19.BACA7F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two new players, David Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston. You may take your seats in Parliament. (If anyone=92s counting, that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C0EE19.BACA7F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Two new players, Davi= d Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston.=A0 You may take your seats = in Parliament.

(If anyone=92s counting, that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.)

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_006F_01C0EE19.BACA7F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C0EE19.BACA7F40-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 21:12:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 04:12:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 56507 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606041226.QPHC13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:12:26 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:10:05 -0400 Message-ID: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0" ------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Acts of Parliament are an appropriate addition, now that I think about it =96 and I deliberately left the definition of a bill (proposal) as fairly Suber-esque. =20 =97Do we need to be able to amend or repeal Acts? Usually they=92ll have one-time application. =20 =97Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game? I=92m not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The Acts of Parliament are an appropriat= e addition, now that I think about it =96 and I deliberately left the definition of a b= ill (proposal) as fairly Suber-esque.

 

=97Do we need to be able to amend or repeal Acts?  Usually they=92l= l have one-time application.

 

=97Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game?&= nbsp; I=92m not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

 


------=_NextPart_001_007B_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_007A_01C0EE1D.0A9568C0-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 05 21:24:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 04:24:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 79087 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 04:24:08 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606042407.RDDI13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:24:07 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bill 2 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:21:44 -0400 Message-ID: <007f01c0ee40$323dc340$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340" ------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here=92s Bill 2, submitted by Henry Towsner. Initial Public Opinion on this bill is high for an internal-organization bill; apparently the public sees this as more Democratic. Initial Public Opinion is +15. =20 I=92m going out of town for the weekend, so I=92ll actually open voting Thurday shortly after I publish the Agenda. I=92ll leave the voting open until Wednesday, just as if I had opened the vote on Sunday. =20 =20 Create Statute 2.3, reading:=20 =20 Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.4, reading:=20 =20 Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:=20 =20 When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. At the time this rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:=20 =20 Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results.=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here=92s Bill 2, submitted by Henry Towsner.  Initial Public Opinion on this bill is high for an internal-organiza= tion bill; apparently the public sees this as more Democratic.  Initial Public Opinion is +15.

 

I=92m going out of town for the weekend, so I=92ll actually open voting Thurday shortly after I publish the Agenda.  I= =92ll leave the voting open until Wednesday, just as if I had opened the vote on Sunday.

 

 

Create Statute 2.3, reading: =

 

Each player represents the Party Leader = for one Political Party.  Thanks t= o perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at t= hat player's direction.  Consequen= tly, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to th= e Party Leaders.

 

Create Statute 2.4, reading: =

 

Each Political Party always has at least= one Seat in Parliament at all times.

 

Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:

 

When a player is first seated in Parliam= ent, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as= Party Leader.  At the time this rule= is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule,= as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.

 

Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:

 

Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Member= s of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to= The King.  After the voting period= defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bil= l, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held = by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. <= /span>

 

------=_NextPart_001_0081_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340-- ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01C0EE1E.AB2C2340-- From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 05 22:30:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 05:30:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 67443 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 05:30:39 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f565Ud401855 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> References: <007901c0ee3e$91a708c0$70a20741@g...> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:30:27 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220317058==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220317058==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >-Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of >the game? I'm not entirely sure that we actually need many >artifacts for this game. Given that virtually anything will be an artifact of the game, I assume there will be a fair number. In particular, anything we use to represent the economy will probably fall into that category. The idea is that Private things are things we can't mess with arbitrarily, so they would require more support to alter. I don't know whether we'll need it, but I'd rather include it now and have that option open then have us decide to do something like that later and leave a loophole. As for amending acts, here are a couple of situations I can think of where it might be useful: A complicated proposal passes which has some sort of delayed effect (for instance cleaning something up after a transition period). Then a problem is found with the original bill, and a fix is proposed. The original transition bill will no longer work safely; there are ways around it (having another act take effect immediately after), but those are much more likely to lead to conflicts. As another scenario, suppose we write a law with a "sunset clause," which causes it to be repealed after (say) six months if it isn't reinstated. While, again, a renewal could be accomplished by having another Act take effect immediately after, there could be problems caused by having the law "blink" in and out of existence. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220317058==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" RE: [leg-nomic] Another proto-proposal
-Do we already want to talk about private and public artifacts of the game?  I'm not entirely sure that we actually need many artifacts for this game.

        Given that virtually anything will be an artifact of the game, I assume there will be a fair number.  In particular, anything we use to represent the economy will probably fall into that category.
        The idea is that Private things are things we can't mess with arbitrarily, so they would require more support to alter.
        I don't know whether we'll need it, but I'd rather include it now and have that option open then have us decide to do something like that later and leave a loophole.

        As for amending acts, here are a couple of situations I can think of where it might be useful:
        A complicated proposal passes which has some sort of delayed effect (for instance cleaning something up after a transition period).  Then a problem is found with the original bill, and a fix is proposed.  The original transition bill will no longer work safely; there are ways around it (having another act take effect immediately after), but those are much more likely to lead to conflicts.

        As another scenario, suppose we write a law with a "sunset clause," which causes it to be repealed after (say) six months if it isn't reinstated.  While, again, a renewal could be accomplished by having another Act take effect immediately after, there could be problems caused by having the law "blink" in and out of existence.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220317058==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 02:36:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 09:36:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 36308 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606093658.ELMD13701.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 02:36:58 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Royal Edit? Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 05:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c0ee6b$c89cbb40$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300" ------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Futz. I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset. This one might be a bigger deal than the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a rule we=92re going to use shortly. =20 >From =A76.3: =93Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.5 . . .=94 The problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time, was 4.6 when the game actually started. The results of a vote will never be published under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and opening voting. =20 I see several courses of action: =20 1. Just fix it. 4.6 is the rule that was intended, so it should read 4.6. This is the simplest solution, but isn=92t exactly true to the spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent. It occurred to me, too, to just change it and not mention it to anybody; I=92d probably have got away with it and our lives would be easier. 2. Use the =93escape hatch=94 of =A71.2. I strongly prefer not to do this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies. 3. Play on. My read on what happens then, is that rule changes in the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political Capital this week. There is still has time to get a =93fix-up=94 bill on this week=92s Agenda. 4. Some kind of Court case. I don=92t know what kind of case would fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but some clever player might come up with one. =20 Suggestions? =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=92m debating the wisdom of continuing to comment on proto-bills.  Nomically speaking, I favor a weak administrator= /speaker/moderator/king, or even none at all.  I=92m wondering if continuing to comment on bills and proto-bills is too much of = a power grab, if my footprint is then too heavy on the ruleset (statute-set).=   There are historical precedents, o= f course, such as the actual strength of the U.S. President even when his constitutional role is small.

 

Fortunately Cappochi brings up the very question of royal prerogatives in a small manner so that we can discuss wha= t they should be.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

-----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y...= [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]
Sent
= : Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:37 AM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject: [leg-nomic] Proposa= l for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege

 


Take a look at Statute 1.2 . . .  The King should have the pow= er to dissolve Parliament, but
the
way this statute currently exists means he may not.

&= nbsp;

Statute 1.2 = almost got left out of the initial set.  It=92s designed to be an =93escape hatch,=94 for when the game irrecoverably crashes.  My hope is that neit= her I nor a future King ever need use it.  Historically speaking the King should be able to dissolve Parliament= , but Nomically speaking, escape hatches can be trouble.  A commentator on nom= ic.net worried that the escape hatch might lead to Imperial Nomic, and that possibility does exist.

 =

I didn=92t put mutable and immutable rules in the initial set.  If Parliament wishes to write a = =93constitution,=94 though, they can decide how mutable 1.2 ought to be.  Or get rid of it entirely.

&= nbsp;

Suggestions? Comments? I= don't know about the second paragraph -
obviously
our King is a monarch of exceeding wisdom and jutice, but =

we don't want him changing the laws willy-nilly. 

&= nbsp;

A court case stri= kes me as just about right.  Quest= ions: Should Royal Edits be numbered and archived?  Or should statutes be annotated wi= th edits?  Or should edits erase the original= form of the bill (which strikes me as somehow Orwellian)?  Food for thoug= ht.

 =

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'> 

Futz.= =A0 I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset.=A0 This one might be a bigger deal than = the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a rule we’re going to use short= ly.

 

From =A76.3: “Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.5 . . .=A0 The= problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time, was 4.6 when the game actually started.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 The results of a vote will never be p= ublished under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and opening voting.

 

I see several courses of action:

 

  1. Jus= t fix it.=A0 4.6 is the rule that wa= s intended, so it should read 4.6.=A0 This is the simplest solution, but isn’t exactly true to = the spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent.=A0 It occurred to me, too, to just = change it and not mention it to anybody; I’d probably have got away wit= h it and our lives would be easier.
  2. Use= the “escape hatch” of =A71.2.=A0 I s= trongly prefer not to do this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies.
  3. Pla= y on.=A0 My read on what happens then, is= that rule changes in the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political Capital this week. =A0There is still has time to get a “fix-up” bill on this week̵= 7;s Agenda.
  4. Som= e kind of Court case.=A0 I don’t k= now what kind of case would fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but = some clever player might come up with one.

 

Suggestions?

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0096_01C0EE4A.41944300-- ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0095_01C0EE4A.418B1B40-- From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 06 04:31:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 11:31:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 82507 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO c9.egroups.com) (10.1.2.66) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.55] by c9.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 11:31:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:31:15 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Royal Edit? Message-ID: <9fl4a3+is4a@e...> In-Reply-To: <009401c0ee6b$c89cbb40$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 2447 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 205.247.108.109 From: mittnox@y... Bill: Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: Statute 6.3 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute=20 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount=20 equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in=20 favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his=20 Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public=20 Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP=20 and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have=20 gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current=20 version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute=20 is first passed, it is automatically repealed. Comments: I think this will fix the problem. I know self-repealing=20 Statutes aren't the greatest thing since Swiss cheese, but they have=20 their uses.=20 > Futz. I just noticed another mistake in the ruleset. This one=20 might be > a bigger deal than the one pointed out by Ryan, since it affects a=20 rule > we're going to use shortly. >=20=20 > From =A76.3: "Upon the publication of the results of a vote according=20 to > Statute 4.5 . . ." The problem is, that what was 4.5 at the time,=20 was > 4.6 when the game actually started. The results of a vote will=20 never be > published under =A74.5; that rule covers publishing the Agenda and=20 opening > voting. >=20=20 > I see several courses of action: >=20=20 > 1. Just fix it. 4.6 is the rule that was intended, so it should > read 4.6. This is the simplest solution, but isn't exactly true to=20 the > spirit of the game, and sets a bad precedent. It occurred to me,=20 too, > to just change it and not mention it to anybody; I'd probably have=20 got > away with it and our lives would be easier. > 2. Use the "escape hatch" of =A71.2. I strongly prefer not to do > this; I intended that rule to be used for real emergencies. > 3. Play on. My read on what happens then, is that rule changes=20 in > the current Agenda, will still occur, but nobody earns Political=20 Capital > this week. There is still has time to get a "fix-up" bill on this > week's Agenda. > 4. Some kind of Court case. I don't know what kind of case would > fix this problem, if the Court ruled honestly, but some clever=20 player > might come up with one. >=20=20 > Suggestions? From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 04:58:33 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 11:58:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 42357 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 11:58:25 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010606115825.GCGF12680.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:58:25 -0700 To: Subject: Bill 3 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:58:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c0ee80$10196c20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: <9fl4a3+is4a@e...> X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 3, below; I=92m required to republish it even though you just saw it. Public Opinion is a measly +5; few people seem to care about misprints. Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: =20 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. =20 Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) =20 Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed. =20 I must also say that the proposed 7.3 makes me a full-fledged believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don=92t like self-repealing rules. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE5E.890F6D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill 3, below; I=92m required to republish it even though you just saw it.=A0 Public Opinion is a measly +5; few pe= ople seem to care about misprints.

Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, i= n full:

 

Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital= in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill.=A0 If an MP casts a vote in favor of a b= ill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital.=A0 If an MP casts a vote against a bill,= Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital.

 

Create Statute 7.3 (or the next availabl= e number, if 7.3 is taken)

 

Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King s= hall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed.

 

I must also say that the proposed 7.3 ma= kes me a full-fledged believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don=92t like self-repealing rules.

 

=A0


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Welcome to Ectomorph, our newest Member.=A0 You may now take your se= at in Parliament.

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0EE68.3ECE70A0-- From ryan_shannon@y... Wed Jun 06 08:52:17 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 15:52:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 98320 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.2.230] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 15:52:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 15:52:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fljj3+b01f@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 801 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall share the same number with another statute. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for all the comments on my earlier ideas. I had complete brain failure on the numbering scheme. I think this bill solves the two statutes/one number problem that I was initialy concerned about. I'll submit this in a day if no one has any concerns. -Ryan From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 06 09:36:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 16:36:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 14445 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.123) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:05:19 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: Subject: [leg-nomic] Court case C1 (was Re: Voting/Polling) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 04:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: <006401c0ec03$ff90a360$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0EBE2.787F0360" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2001 08:05:19.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE8DC7A0:01C0EC03] From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360" ------=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the votes on his behalf count as tallying? I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts. But this is by no means unambiguous. Let's set precedent: =20 I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning of Statute 4.6. -- =20 For completeness=92 sake, this is what I get from Yahoo! (I guess Bill 999 fails. :-) ) =20 Choices=20 Votes=20 %=20 4 replies=20 Respondents=20 NAY=20 2=20 50.00%=20 htowsner@s... mittnox@y... ABSTAIN/UNDECIDED=20 1=20 25.00%=20 ryan_shannon@y... YEA=20 1=20 25.00%=20 sp4mnet@h... I had a long argument written for why the statement was FALSE. But I changed my mind. The relevant dictionary definition of =93tally=94 is =93to make a count of= =94 (www.m-w.com ). If one were to employ a piece of paper and pencil, and make hash marks to tally the votes, we would have no argument. The computer is simply a more sophisticated version of paper and pencil, in this case; it is a tool which the King employs in tallying the votes. I rule this statement to be TRUE. One could perhaps nitpick that my reasoning is not entirely consonant with the way Henry worded his statement. But it=92s close, and is consonant with the spirit of his statement, anyway ------=_NextPart_001_0066_01C0EBE2.787F0360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Voting/Polling

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

   &nb= sp;    We'd better settle this early...does having a computer tally the vo= tes on his behalf count as tallying?  I'm inclined to say that for that purpose the King is still arranging to have the votes tallied, so it still counts.  But this is by no means unambiguous.  Let's set preceden= t:

 

I submit to the Court that arranging to have a computer tally the votes constitutes tallying the votes within the meaning = of Statute 4.6.

--

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

For completeness=92 sake, this is what I get from Yahoo! (I guess Bill 999 fails. J )

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'> 

Choices

Votes

%

4 replies

Respondents

2 =

50.00% =

1 =

25.00% =

ry= an_shannon@y...

1 =

25.00% =

I had a long argument written for why the state= ment was FALSE.  But I changed my m= ind.

The relevant dictionary definition of =93tally= =94 is =93to make a count of=94 (www.m-w.com).  If one were to employ a piece= of paper and pencil, and make hash marks to tally the votes, we would have no argument.  The computer is sim= ply a more sophisticated version of paper and pencil, in this case; it is a tool which the King employs in tallying the votes.

I rule this statement to be TRUE.

</judgment>

One could perhaps nitpick that my reasoning is = not entirely consonant with the way Henry worded his statement.  But it=92s close, and is consonant with the spirit of his statement, anyway

<= /span>

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Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall
share the same number with another statute.

  A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number
for such statute.  If a statute is created or comes to exist which
has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a
statement to that effect to all players.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

        Is 4.2 a number?  Is 4.2.1 a number?  If we want to allow things like X.Y.Z, this will probably not work.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220276528==_ma============-- From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 06 09:50:37 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 16:50:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 54804 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 16:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 16:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 16:49:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 16:49:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:49:44 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 3 Message-ID: <9flmv8+ltaf@e...> In-Reply-To: <000801c0ee80$10196c20$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 537 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > Public Opinion is a measly +5; few people seem to care about misprints. Would have thought a bill like this which is selfish about PC would have a negative PO. > I must also say that the proposed 7.3 makes me a full-fledged believer > in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don't like self-repealing > rules. Why do you feel this way? I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, and I don't see any problems that could arise from it, since it will be gone six seconds after it passes. Is it just a "style" preference? Mittnox From miggs_ectomorph@y... Wed Jun 06 09:52:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 16:52:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 68037 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 16:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 16:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 16:52:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.10.101] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 16:52:11 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:52:10 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proto-proposal Message-ID: <9fln3q+jtdk@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 640 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... I was thinking that it might be useful to have a God character that anyone can "pray" to, perhaps it could be a "statutory instrument" that could be used to modify things like the time of day or Public Opinion or other variable quantities, because I'm thinking that I could write some code to generate Public Opinion or perhaps even some simple Players who are actually automated (but only God knows this). I'm thinking that the King could always "ignore" any automated PO results (just in case I get snowed under). Then Bills could be passed on to the PO generator and the results summarily judged. Just a proto-proposal, mind! Ectomorph From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 06 09:57:30 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 16:57:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 9978 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 16:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 16:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mr.egroups.com) (10.1.1.37) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 16:56:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.100] by mr.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 16:56:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:56:43 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proto-proposal Message-ID: <9flncb+5b71@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fln3q+jtdk@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 582 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > I'm thinking > that I could write some code to generate Public > Opinion or perhaps even some simple Players who are > actually automated (but only God knows this). I'm > thinking that the King could always "ignore" any > automated PO results (just in case I get snowed > under). Then Bills could be passed on to the PO > generator and the results summarily judged. Just a > proto-proposal, mind! > Ectomorph What would you base the automated PO on? Would it be completely random? Would the automated PO be able to "remember" similar bills and generate a similar PO? Mittnox From miggs_ectomorph@y... Wed Jun 06 10:07:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 17:07:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 92607 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 17:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:05:13 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.10.95] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 17:05:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:05:11 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proto-proposal Message-ID: <9flns7+ket8@e...> In-Reply-To: <9flncb+5b71@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 986 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., mittnox@y... wrote: > > I'm thinking > > that I could write some code to generate Public > > Opinion or perhaps even some simple Players who are > > actually automated (but only God knows this). I'm > > thinking that the King could always "ignore" any > > automated PO results (just in case I get snowed > > under). Then Bills could be passed on to the PO > > generator and the results summarily judged. Just a > > proto-proposal, mind! > > Ectomorph > > What would you base the automated PO on? Would it be completely > random? Would the automated PO be able to "remember" similar bills > and generate a similar PO? > > Mittnox All good questions Mittnox, perhaps it could start out as a keyword- based random number generator with a fading memory approach as you suggest. For example, it gets the text, ignores a list of simple words (to be constructed), then generates a random number whose value is biased by any words it has seen before. Ectomorph From ryan_shannon@y... Wed Jun 06 10:18:22 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 17:18:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 30999 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 17:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hi.egroups.com) (10.1.10.41) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:17:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.10.102] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 17:17:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:17:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9floif+7dv1@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 767 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., Henry Towsner wrote: > > Is 4.2 a number? Is 4.2.1 a number? If we want to allow > things like X.Y.Z, this will probably not work. > -- Hrm your right, how about: Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall be assigned a number that is identical to any other statute's number. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From miggs_ectomorph@y... Wed Jun 06 10:19:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 17:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 40441 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 17:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:19:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 17:19:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:19:45 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9flonh+uqcv@e...> In-Reply-To: <9floif+7dv1@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 865 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., ryan_shannon@y... wrote: > --- In leg-nomic@y..., Henry Towsner wrote: > > > > Is 4.2 a number? Is 4.2.1 a number? If we want to allow > > things like X.Y.Z, this will probably not work. > > -- > > Hrm your right, how about: > > > Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall > be assigned a number that is identical to any other statute's > number. > > A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number > for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which > has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a > statement to that effect to all players. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Sounds OK. From miggs_ectomorph@y... Wed Jun 06 10:34:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 17:34:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 3576 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 17:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:33:39 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.10.96] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 17:33:39 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:33:37 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... Message-ID: <9flphh+f6nl@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 46 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... ... I admit to not remembering all the rules. From miggs_ectomorph@y... Wed Jun 06 10:51:18 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 17:51:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 17837 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 17:50:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 17:50:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 17:50:46 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.2.36] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 17:50:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:50:42 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proposal for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege Message-ID: <9flqhi+r79k@e...> In-Reply-To: <004401c0ed9a$22c73140$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2778 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Dan Marsh" wrote: > I'm debating the wisdom of continuing to comment on proto-bills. > Nomically speaking, I favor a weak administrator/speaker/moderator/king, > or even none at all. I'm wondering if continuing to comment on bills > and proto-bills is too much of a power grab, if my footprint is then too > heavy on the ruleset (statute-set). There are historical precedents, of > course, such as the actual strength of the U.S. President even when his > constitutional role is small. > > Fortunately Cappochi brings up the very question of royal prerogatives > in a small manner so that we can discuss what they should be. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sallyvacuum@y... [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:37 AM > To: leg-nomic@y... > Subject: [leg-nomic] Proposal for discussion: Royal Editing Privilege > > > Take a look at Statute 1.2 . . . The King should have the power to > dissolve Parliament, but > the way this statute currently exists means he may not. > > Statute 1.2 > almost got left out of the initial set. It's designed to be an "escape > hatch," for when the game irrecoverably crashes. My hope is that > neither I nor a future King ever need use it. Historically speaking the > King should be able to dissolve Parliament, but Nomically speaking, > escape hatches can be trouble. A commentator on nomic.net worried that > the escape hatch might lead to Imperial Nomic, and that possibility does > exist. > > I didn't put mutable and immutable rules in the initial set. If > Parliament wishes to write a "constitution," though, they can decide how > mutable 1.2 ought to be. Or get rid of it entirely. > > Suggestions? Comments? I don't know about the second paragraph - > obviously our King is a monarch of exceeding wisdom and jutice, but > we don't want him changing the laws willy-nilly. > > A court case strikes me as just about right. Questions: Should Royal > Edits be numbered and archived? Or should statutes be annotated with > edits? Or should edits erase the original form of the bill (which > strikes me as somehow Orwellian)? Food for thought. Well, I agree about the speaker/moderator idea, but it may make progress too slow. I for one like to see posts on a regular basis, at least five a day perhaps. But then that's me. The reason why I suggested the "God" player in an earlier post was for precisely things such as this: limiting the King's power to some extent. Any Player can assume the position of God (of course, all clerics are to some extent self-appointed but they of course have some kind of time delay "training period" I suppose). Ectomorph From htowsner@s... Wed Jun 06 14:25:31 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 21:25:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 81020 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta2 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 21:25:25 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f56LPO405648 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9floif+7dv1@e...> References: <9floif+7dv1@e...> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:25:21 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: --ProtoBill-- Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1220259772==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1220259772==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall >be assigned a number that is identical to any other statute's >number. > > A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number >for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which >has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a >statement to that effect to all players. >------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers. Of course, the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form. I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference." and so on. Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1? -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1220259772==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" [leg-nomic] Re: --ProtoBill--
Amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Each statute shall have a number for reference. No statute shall
be assigned a number that is identical to any other statute's
number.

   A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the number
for such statute.  If a statute is created or comes to exist which
has no number, The King shall assign it a number by publishing a
statement to that effect to all players.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

        Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers.  Of course, the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form.
        I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference."  and so on.

        Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1?
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1220259772==_ma============-- From ryan_shannon@y... Wed Jun 06 15:16:03 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 22:16:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 2586 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 22:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 22:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 22:16:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.10.104] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 22:16:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:15:58 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fma2u+hvld@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2017 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., Henry Towsner wrote: > Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and > things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers. Of course, > the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form. > I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall > have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference." and > so on. > > Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules > currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1? I don't mind the number system we have, but your right, we do need to come up with a better name for it. How about "Statutory Identifier"? ProtoBill ver 3 This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutory Identifier for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read: A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statute, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court. -------------------------------------------------------------------- The second part of the bill cleans up some language in 4.4 and corrects the only other statute with a reference to a statute's "number". I believe it to be consistant with the logic of the current 4.4 only more clear. I feel can address what an Identifier is composed of later when there is more meat to the bones of the law and the nomic has taken a direction. Comments? -Ryan From ryan_shannon@y... Wed Jun 06 16:20:01 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 23:20:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 60846 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:19:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 23:19:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp010.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.173.30) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:19:57 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:19:56 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <021e01c0eedf$9bebbf50$8ee50418@c...> To: References: <000801c0ee89$c5e010a0$70a20741@g...> Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:22:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_021A_01C0EEAD.50E03E00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" ------=_NextPart_000_021A_01C0EEAD.50E03E00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_021B_01C0EEAD.50E03E00" ------=_NextPart_001_021B_01C0EEAD.50E03E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome Ectomorph!=20 -Ryan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Marsh=20 To: Legislative Nomic=20 Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:08 AM Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in Parliament Welcome to Ectomorph, our newest Member. You may now take your seat in P= arliament. =20=20=20 =20=20=20 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_021B_01C0EEAD.50E03E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Welcome Ectomorph!
 
-Ryan
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20
= Dan=20 Marsh
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:0= 8=20 AM
Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in=20 Parliament

Welcome to Ectomor= ph, our=20 newest Member.  You may now= take=20 your seat in Parliament.

 <= /SPAN>

 


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
leg-nomic-unsubscri= be@yahoogroups.com



Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
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Welcome folks!
 
-Ryan
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 = Dan=20 Marsh
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:46= =20 PM
Subject: [leg-nomic] Seated in=20 Parliament

Two new players, D= avid=20 Dickens and Jeffrey J. Weston.&= nbsp;=20 You may take your seats in Parliament.

(If anyone=92s count= ing,=20 that=92s ten players so far, and I make eleven.)

 <= /SPAN>

 


To=20 unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
leg-nomic-unsubscri= be@yahoogroups.com



Your=20 use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20
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Wed Jun 06 16:43:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 6 Jun 2001 23:43:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1200 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ch.egroups.com) (10.1.10.51) by mta1 with SMTP; 6 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.97] by ch.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Jun 2001 23:43:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:43:06 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Seated in Parliament Message-ID: <9fmf6a+624q@e...> In-Reply-To: <023b01c0eedf$a94f5440$8ee50418@c...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 238 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > (If anyone's counting, that's ten players so far, and I make eleven.) Yeah, quit bragging. Mittnox (aka Captain Infinity, Moderator of the 4-man Nomic (which is, by the way, at www.geocities.com/mittnox/gods/ (shameless plug))). From sallyvacuum@y... Wed Jun 06 17:36:49 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 35282 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mu.egroups.com) (10.1.1.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.2.207] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 00:36:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:36:45 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fmiat+r345@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fma2u+hvld@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1294 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., ryan_shannon@y... wrote: > --- In leg-nomic@y..., Henry Towsner wrote: > > Hmm...that still says "each statute shall have a number," and > > things like 4.9.1 aren't normally considered numbers. Of course, > > the rules currently say the same thing and have ids of that form. > > I'd rather have it say something like "Each statute shall > > have a series of numbers, separated by periods, for reference." and so on. > > > > Actually, what do people think about the fact that some rules > > currently have "numbers" like 4.9.1? > > I don't mind the number system we have, but your right, we do need to > come up with a better name for it. How about "Statutory Identifier"? > > > ProtoBill ver 3 > This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No > statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to > any other statute's Statutory Identifier. > ....... > > Comments? > -Ryan From ryan_shannon@y... Thu Jun 07 07:40:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 14:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 74923 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hp.egroups.com) (10.1.2.220) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: ryan_shannon@y... Received: from [10.1.2.27] by hp.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 14:38:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:38:30 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fo3l6+24p5@e...> In-Reply-To: <9fmiat+r345@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 321 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.100.131.225 From: ryan_shannon@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., sallyvacuum@y... wrote: > Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic > ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a > legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. > It is a bit dry eh? We'll have to find poetry in its utility. :) -Ryan From jjweston@m... Thu Jun 07 08:58:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@m... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 15:58:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 90117 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 15:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 15:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO megapathdsl.net) (216.200.176.7) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 15:57:39 -0000 Received: from [208.185.177.103] (HELO picard) by megapathdsl.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.3) with SMTP id 25785915 for leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:55:54 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010607085737.016df650@m...> X-Sender: jjweston@m... X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:57:37 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: --ProtoBill-- In-Reply-To: <9fmiat+r345@e...> References: <9fma2u+hvld@e...> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Jeff Weston At 12:36 AM 6/7/2001 -0000, you wrote: >Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic >ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a >legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. I think poetry will have a higher Public Opinion. Who wants to read dry and boring rules? Poetic Rules sound much more interesting... :) - - - Jeffrey J. Weston jjweston@m... PGP Public Key : http://www.sir-toby.com/personal-key.asc - - - From miggs_ectomorph@y... Thu Jun 07 11:00:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: miggs_ectomorph@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 18:00:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 34548 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ml.egroups.com) (10.1.1.31) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: miggs_ectomorph@y... Received: from [10.1.2.208] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:00:32 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: --ProtoBill-- Message-ID: <9fofg0+4evf@e...> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010607085737.016df650@m...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 582 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 193.114.58.175 From: miggs_ectomorph@y... --- In leg-nomic@y..., Jeff Weston wrote: > At 12:36 AM 6/7/2001 -0000, you wrote: > >Looks good to me - "Statutory Identifier" doesn't quite have a poetic > >ring to it, but I can't think of anything better. And this is a > >legislature simulation - I think poetry will be rare. > > I think poetry will have a higher Public Opinion. Who wants to read dry > and boring rules? Poetic Rules sound much more interesting... :) > > - - - > Jeffrey J. Weston > jjweston@m... > PGP Public Key : http://www.sir-toby.com/personal-key.asc > - - - Right on! Ectomorph From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:00:40 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:00:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 80553 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta3 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:00:39 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607230038.KQPS12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:00:38 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bill 4 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:01:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c0efa5$bf0e4680$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9fo3pe+bvrg@e...> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public Opinion: -3 -----Original Message----- From: ryan_shannon@y... [mailto:ryan_shannon@y...] This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutory Identifier for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read: A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statute, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:13:58 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 38257 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:13:57 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607231354.LHXO12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:13:54 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: This Week's Agenda - Voting Open Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:14:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c0efa7$997f2f40$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=92m a day or so behind on the discussion, and about to go out of town for the weekend. =20 Because of this, I=92m publishing this week=92s agenda of Parliament, and opening voting, early. By statute, bills submitted to me by noon today were to have been published this coming Sunday, and voting opening then. What I=92m going to do is publish the Agenda now, and set up the polls on Yahoo!, and let folks hash out their votes and cast them. I=92m going to close voting on Wednesday, just as if I actually had published the Agenda on Sunday. (If you are really in the mood, wait until Sunday to cast your votes. :-)) =20 Voting will occur at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls . The polls will be there momentarily, and you should get a rash of mails about each of the polls opening. =20 Anyway, Bill 1 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +30 Founder's Day =20 Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. =20 Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. =20 All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. =20 Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) =96 Current Public Opinion +15 Create Statute 2.3, reading:=20 =20 Each player represents the Party Leader for one Political Party. Thanks to perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at that player's direction. Consequently, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only to the Party Leaders.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.4, reading:=20 =20 Each Political Party always has at least one Seat in Parliament at all times.=20 =20 Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:=20 =20 When a player is first seated in Parliament, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader. At the time this rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this rule, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:=20 =20 Upon publication of the Agenda of Parliament as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King. After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results. Bill 3 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +5: Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, in full: =20 Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill. If an MP casts a vote in favor of a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital. If an MP casts a vote against a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital. =20 Create Statute 7.3 (or the next available number, if 7.3 is taken) =20 Five seconds after this proposed statute is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statute is first passed, it is automatically repealed. Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) =96 Current Public Opinion =963: This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full, to read: =20 Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifier that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier. =20 A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutory Identifier for such statute. If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to that effect to all players. =20 Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read: =20 A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statute, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overturn one or more Rulings of The Court. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=92m a day or so behind on the discussion, and about to go out of town for the weekend.<= /font>

 

Because of this, I=92m publishing this week=92s agenda of Parliament, and opening voting, early.  By statute, bills submitted to me = by noon today were to have been published thi= s coming Sunday, and voting opening then.&nb= sp; What I=92m going to do is publish the Agenda now, and set up the polls on Yahoo!, and let folks hash out their votes and cast them.  I=92m going to close voting on Wednesday, just as if I actually had published the Agenda on Sunday.  (If you are really in the mood, wa= it until Sunday to cast your votes. J)

 

Voting will occur at http://groups.yahoo.= com/group/leg-nomic/polls .  The polls will be there momentarily, and you should get a rash of mails about each of the polls opening.

 

Anyway, Bill 1 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +30=

Founder's Day

 

Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic.

 

Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day.

 

All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus = of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day.

 

Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day.

Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) =96 Current Publi= c Opinion +15

Create Statute 2.3, reading: =

 

Each player represents the Party Leader = for one Political Party.  Thanks t= o perfect party discipline, all members of that player's party will vote at t= hat player's direction.  Consequen= tly, the terms "MP" and "Members of Parliament" refer only t= o the Party Leaders.

 

Create Statute 2.4, reading: =

 

Each Political Party always has at least= one Seat in Parliament at all times.

 

Create Statute 2.2.1, reading:

 

When a player is first seated in Parliam= ent, a new Political Party with ten Seats in Parliament (including the one held personally by the player) shall come into existence, with the new player as Party Leader.  At the time thi= s rule is created a party shall be created for each player as described in this ru= le, as if that player were newly seated in Parliament.

 

Amend Statute 4.6 to read, in full:

 

Upon publication of the Agenda of Parlia= ment as specified by statute, all Members of Parliament may vote on each bill so published by communicating such vote to The King.  After the voting period defined by statute has elapsed, The King shall tally all votes received on each bill, weighing each vote proportionate to the number of Seats in Parliament held = by the party of the MP casting the vote, and publish the results.

Bill 3 (Mittnox) =96 Current Public Opinion +5:

Statute 6.3 is hereby amended to read, i= n full:

 

Upon the publication of the results of a vote according to Statute 4.6, each MP shall gain or lose Political Capital= in an amount equivalent to Public Opinion on that bill.  If an MP casts a vote in favor of = a bill, Public Opinion on that bill shall be added to his Political Capital.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  If an MP casts a vote against a bi= ll, Public Opinion on that bill shall be subtracted from his Political Capital.=

 

Create Statute 7.3 (or the next availabl= e number, if 7.3 is taken)

 

Five seconds after this proposed statute= is first passed, each MP and the King shall gain or lose the political capital they would have gained or lost for the immediately-concluded vote had the current version of Statute 6.3 been in effect. Six seconds after this Statu= te is first passed, it is automatically repealed.

Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) =96 Current Public Opinion =963:

This bill will amend Statute 3.3 in full= , to read:

 

Each statute shall have a Statutory Identifier for reference. No statute shall be assigned a Statutory Identifi= er that is identical to any other statute's Statutory Identifier.

 

 &= nbsp; A bill which proposes to create a statute shall specify the Statutor= y Identifier for such statute.  = If a statute is created or comes to exist which has no Statutory Identifier, The King shall assign it a Statutory Identifier by publishing a statement to th= at effect to all players.

 

Amend Statute 4.4 in full, to read:=

 

A bill may include one or more proposals to create a statute, repeal a statut= e, amend a statute, change the Statutory Identifier of a statute, or to overtu= rn one or more Rulings of The Court.

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0EF86.126D8F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0EF86.126D8F40-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:17:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 51461 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:17:05 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:17:03 -0000 Message-ID: <991955823.170.89498.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 1 (Mittnox) - Final Public Opinion +30 ---- Founder's Day Henceforth June 2 shall be known as "Founder's Day," and shall be recognized as the birthday of Legislative Nomic. Due to patriotic fervor, Public Opinion shall be calculated normally and then modified by +10 (to a maximum of +50) during Founder's Day. All MPs and the King shall gain a bonus of five (5) political capital points at the beginning of each Founder's Day. Founder's Day is a Court Holiday. No judgments may be issued by the Court on Founder's Day. ---- o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:18:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 54558 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:18:47 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:18:43 -0000 Message-ID: <991955923.135.89490.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) – Current Public Opinion +15 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:19:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55876 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:19:27 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:19:23 -0000 Message-ID: <991955963.398.89706.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 3 (Mittnox) – Current Public Opinion +5 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 07 16:20:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 34528 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:20:23 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.65] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Jun 2001 23:20:23 -0000 Date: 7 Jun 2001 23:20:21 -0000 Message-ID: <991956021.268.89668.j6@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) – Current Public Opinion –3 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 07 16:23:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 23852 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Jun 2001 23:23:09 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010607232308.LSIW12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:23:08 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Votes Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c0efa8$e3a10a20$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Votes are now open; your mailbox should have four poll notifications. =20 I had intended to put the text of the bill in each poll, but Yahoo! doesn=92t accommodate that well. (Formatting problems.) =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Votes are now open; your mailbox should = have four poll notifications.

 

I had intended to put the text of the bi= ll in each poll, but Yahoo! doesn=92t accommodate that well.=A0 (Formatting probl= ems.)

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20-- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EF87.5C8F6A20-- From ryan_shannon@y... Thu Jun 07 21:43:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: ryan_shannon@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 04:43:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11584 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp016.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.174.113) by mta2 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 Received: from c491674-a.arvada1.co.home.com (HELO c491674a) (24.4.229.142) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 04:43:57 -0000 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <03ae01c0efd6$06210140$8ee50418@c...> To: References: <000201c0efa5$bf0e4680$70a20741@g...> Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Bill 4 Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:46:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 From: "Ryan Shannon" > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted > shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few > citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public > Opinion: -3 I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They specifically said, "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to address certain concerns with statute 3.3. It is *very* important to us." dern ingrates. :-) -Ryan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From sallyvacuum@y... Fri Jun 08 10:07:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 8 Jun 2001 17:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 90041 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2001 16:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 8 Jun 2001 16:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hk.egroups.com) (10.1.10.43) by mta1 with SMTP; 8 Jun 2001 16:54:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.2.109] by hk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Jun 2001 16:54:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:54:53 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 4 Message-ID: <9fr00t+3eje@e...> In-Reply-To: <03ae01c0efd6$06210140$8ee50418@c...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 927 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... I suppose you must be the elected MP representing the Nerd District! I'm sure your opponent stridently opposed Statutory Identifiers, preferring to assign colors and pictures to each law? :) Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Ryan Shannon" wrote: > > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. The entire Agenda will be posted > > shortly. Public Opinion is thoroughly apathetic to this bill. The few > > citizens who have even read it, don't seem to care much. Initial Public > > Opinion: -3 > > I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They > specifically said, > "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to address certain > concerns with statute > 3.3. It is *very* important to us." > > dern ingrates. > > :-) > -Ryan > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 09 18:05:50 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 69522 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 10 Jun 2001 01:05:50 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5A15n416826 for ; Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:05:47 -0700 To: Leg_Nomic Subject: Public Opinion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner Discussion seems to have spontaneously died for some reason, so I'd like to bring us back to implementing public opinion. Here's a sketch for a method I rather like: There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a little goofy (Broccoli). There is also a public stance on each issue, a value from +10 to -10. This would initially be set at random and could be manipulated via political capital. Some could later be tied to performance of different areas (things that make Parliament look weak might result in increased Royal Power ratings while excessive action by the king might make it less popular). Each bill would initially have a 0 rating for each issue. Political Capital could be spent to associate a bill with an issue (i.e. "The people can see that although this bill appears to just change the word 'teh' to 'the', it is really an attempt to undermine the royal authority which has been the root of our nation's greatness"). The association of a bill with an issue would range from -5 to +5. We could also eventually add a way to tie bills to ideas based on actual content. Of course, the final public opinion for a bill would be the sum of the public stance times the association of a bill with each issue. So if the public is +5 on royal power and a bill is considered -2 on royal power, the public opinion would be -10. If the bill also happened to be -1 on Broccoli while the public was -2, the final public opinion would be -8. Comments? -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 18:43:13 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 91629 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.188) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:43:13 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:43:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:43:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 01:43:13.0116 (UTC) FILETIME=[E08201C0:01C0F217] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: mittnox@y... > > I must also say that the proposed 7.3 makes me a full-fledged > > believer in the Acts of Parliament idea; I really don't like > > self-repealing rules. > >Why do you feel this way? ... Is it a style preference? > >Mittnox Well, in part, yes. In part, because real legislatures don't act this way (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). And in part, because it makes archiving the game harder; we must save rule 7.3 as well as the bill which created it. But mostly, it just seems sloppy to me. (So maybe it's just a style preference: "poor form." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 18:49:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 5324 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.242) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 01:49:44 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:49:43 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:49:43 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:49:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 01:49:43.0977 (UTC) FILETIME=[C97AA990:01C0F218] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: miggs_ectomorph@y... >Subject: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... > >... I admit to not remembering all the rules. 'Sok -- even I, your King, who wrote the initial ruleset, have to check the rules often. And between times checking the ruleset, I operate under sort-of what I remember the rules to be. I refer to my Nomic playing style as that of an intellectualy lazy strict constructionist. :-) I like your God idea, generally, and would welcome the automation of public opinion. I would particularly welcome a 'bot which would take care of expenditures of political capital to influence public opinion, but such is beyond my Web expertise. (It's amazing how quickly one goes from computer whiz-kid to computer old-fogey.) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:08:19 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 12363 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.14.148) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:08:19 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:08:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Bill 4 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:08:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 02:08:19.0098 (UTC) FILETIME=[62249FA0:01C0F21B] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: "Ryan Shannon" > > > Here's bill 4 from Ryan Shannon. . . . Public Opinion is thoroughly > > apathetic to this bill. The few citizens who have even read it, > > don't seem to care much. Initial Public Opinion: -3 > >I can't believe these are the same people who elected me to office! They >specifically said, "Ryan, as your first act in Parliment we want you to >address certain concerns with statute 3.3. It is *very* important to >us." If it makes you feel better, PO would probably have been +3 had I been caught up on the discussion; referring to 4.9.1 as a "number" is indeed odd. Even so, though, the citizenry can't be said to care much. DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jjweston@k... Sun Jun 10 19:09:11 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@k... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:09:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 42958 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kenny.sir-toby.com) (208.185.177.103) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:09:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (jjweston@l...) by kenny.sir-toby.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f5B23vi19787 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:03:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Maybe my posts are too anarchic ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: "Jeffrey J. Weston" On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Dan Marsh wrote: > I like your God idea, generally, and would welcome the automation of public > opinion. I would particularly welcome a 'bot which would take care of > expenditures of political capital to influence public opinion, but such is > beyond my Web expertise. (It's amazing how quickly one goes from computer > whiz-kid to computer old-fogey.) I have experience with PHP and mySQL databases. I could probably whip up some web-based automation if needed. From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:14:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:14:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 25472 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.62) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:14:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:14:12 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:14:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:14:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2001 02:14:12.0780 (UTC) FILETIME=[34F436C0:01C0F21C] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: Henry Towsner > > Discussion seems to have spontaneously died for some reason, >so I'd like to bring us back to implementing public opinion. Here's >a sketch for a method I rather like: Obviously, discussion died because I wasn't here commenting on things, hourly. That'll teach ME to leave town for the weekend. (BTW, I also expect to be out of town next weekend. However, I think I will be able to follow the rules more closely this weekend. > There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be >actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a >little goofy (Broccoli). . . . Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations? DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 10 19:20:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:20:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 39490 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:20:54 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010611022051.EKAE29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:20:51 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Bills 5, 6 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:21:43 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c0f21d$421c53e0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Voting on bills 1-4 is ongoing (thru Wednesday) at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls . I have also received the following bills. (I suspect bill 5 actually made it before the deadline last Thursday, but I missed it. Apologies; it will go onto the next ballot with plenty of time for discussion). =20 Bill 5 (Cappocchi) =96 Initial Public Opinion -15 (fairly anti-democratic): Statute 3.5.1 - Royal Editing Privilege The King may edit Statutes, or Bills on the Agenda or Parliament, for clarity or grammar. All such Royal Edits must be published by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Agenda of Parliament. Each Royal Edit must list the Statute or Bill both in its original and corrected forms, and delineate the reason for the Royal Edit.=20=20 =20 A Royal Edit becomes effective immediately upon its publication. Any Member of Parliament may appeal a Royal Edit by bringing a Case before the Court. Such appeals shall be decided in a timely fashion in the manner consistent with other Cases before the Court. =20 Bill 6 (Henry Towsner) =96 Initial Public Opinion +10 (moderately pro-democratic): Create Statute 4.10, reading=20 =20 Acts of Parliament are documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution. No creation of an Act of Parliament is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the time of execution. An Act of Parliament consists of one or more proposals. Each Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference. The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unless that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which had just passed with a majority of votes. Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority to take effect.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill may include one or more proposals. Each proposal is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following:=20 1) Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute=20 2) Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court=20 3) Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament=20 4) Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rules provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill or bill segment which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill or bill segment which creates, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private.=20 =20 Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full=20 =20 A bill or bill segment which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Voting on bills 1-4 is ongoing (thru Wednesday) at htt= p://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls .  I have also received the following bills.  (I suspect b= ill 5 actually made it before the deadline last Thursday, but I missed it.  Apologies; it will go onto the nex= t ballot with plenty of time for discussion).

 

Bill 5 (Cappocchi) =96 Initial Public Opinion -15 (fairly anti-democratic):<= /font>

Statute 3.5.1 - Royal Editing Privilege<= o:p>

The King may edit Sta= tutes, or Bills on the Agenda or Parliament, for clarity or grammar.  All such Royal Edits must be publi= shed by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Age= nda of Parliament. Each Royal Edit must list the Statute or Bill both in its original and corrected forms, and delineate the reason for the Royal Edit.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> 

 

A Royal Edit becomes effective immediately upon its publication.  Any Member of Parliament may appea= l a Royal Edit by bringing a Case before the Court.  Such appeals shall be decided in a timely fashion in the manner consistent with other Cases before the Court.<= o:p>

 

Bill 6 (Henry Towsn= er) =96 Initial Public Opinion +10 (moderately pro-democratic):

Create Statute 4.10, reading =

 

Acts of Parliament ar= e documents consisting of a set of instructions, and a time of execution.  No creation of an Act of Parliamen= t is valid unless it unambiguously specifies some date in the future to be the t= ime of execution.  An Act of Parli= ament consists of one or more proposals.  Eac= h Act of Parliament shall be given a unique identifier for reference.  The identifier of the first Act of Parliament shall be 1; each subsequent Act of Parliament shall receive the next-higher integer. At the time of execution for an Act of Parliament, unl= ess that Act has been repealed, the Act shall take effect as if it were a bill which= had just passed with a majority of votes. = ; Note that Acts may not perform things which require a super-majority= to take effect.

 

Amend Statute 4.4 to read, in full =

 

A bill may include on= e or more proposals.  Each proposal= is an instruction to do exactly 1 of the following:

1) = ;     Create, repeal, amend, or change the number of a statute =

2) = ;     Overturn one or more Rulings of The Court

3) = ;     Create, repeal, or amend an Act of Parliament

4) = ;     Create, destroy, or alter the state of any object defined by the rul= es provided that no other type of proposal can do such an action. <= /span>

 

Amend Statute 4.9.1 to read, in full

 

A bill or bill segmen= t which creates, amends, repeals, or changes the number of a rule shall pass = if it has received a majority of votes in favor.  A bill or bill segment which creat= es, repeals, or amends an Act of Parliament shall pass if it has received a majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates, destroys,= or alters the state of any object defined in the rules shall pass if it has re= ceived a majority of votes in favor unless that object is defined as being Private= .

 

Amend Statute 4.9.2 to read, in full

 

A bill or bill segmen= t which overturns a Ruling of The Court shall pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor. A bill of bill segment which creates= , destroys, or alters the state of any Private object defined in the rules sh= all pass if it has received a two-thirds majority of votes in favor.=

 

------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0F1FB.BB0AB3E0-- From htowsner@s... Sun Jun 10 19:30:05 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 58361 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.116) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 02:30:05 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp2.Stanford.EDU (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5B2U4H27295 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 19:30:00 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1219895892==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1219895892==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10. Some could be >>actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a >>little goofy (Broccoli). . . . > >Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea. Can we >commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations? A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software. Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219895892==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion
>      There are a number of Issues, say 5 to 10.  Some could be
>actual issues (Health Care or Royal Power) while others could be a
>little goofy (Broccoli). . . .

Implementation sounds a bit tough, but generally I like the idea.  Can we
commission the implementation of a 'bot to handle PO/Issue manipulations?

        A bot definitely seems like the way to go.  However I think it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture it so that we can keep using as the rules change.  It's always a shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software.
        Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out).  Another option is Zope (www.zope.org).  I've never used it, but from what I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes.  Another option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1219895892==_ma============-- From jjweston@k... Sun Jun 10 20:07:54 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jjweston@k... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 03:07:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24985 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO kenny.sir-toby.com) (208.185.177.103) by mta2 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:07:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (jjweston@l...) by kenny.sir-toby.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f5B32eR19939 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:02:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:02:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: "Jeffrey J. Weston" On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Henry Towsner wrote: > A bot definitely seems like the way to go. However I think > it's worth being careful about platform, and trying to architecture > it so that we can keep using as the rules change. It's always a > shame when a nomic becomes bound by its software. > > Jeff suggested using PHP/mySQL (I've done PHP/mySQL too, > although not a huge amount, so I would be able to help out). Another > option is Zope (www.zope.org). I've never used it, but from what > I've read, it seems like it might work for our purposes. Another > option would be Java servlets; I'd lean towards this solution, since > it's both easy to code for and more structured than PHP/Perl/Python. Never heard of Zope, so no input from me there. I've worked quite a bit with Java Servlets for my job, so I consider myself fairly skilled with them, and with the Java language in general. However, I feel that using Java Servlets for something like this may be like killing a fly with a flamethrower. It's probably more power than we really need. I still prefer PHP for smaller projects, and in fact haven't seen a reason why it can't be used on larger projects... Of course, there are questions about who is going to build such a bot. Multiple people, or just one person? If its just one, it probably doesn't matter too much what they use. Of course, if they go AWOL, who would be able to maintain it? If multiple people were to work on it, they'd have to all agree on the same tools. I suppose the question comes down to, who would be willing to do such work? What tools do you prefer? What tools *can* you work with? What tools can you *not* work with, or refuse to work with? Oh yes, one more thing... The game of Nomic can be quite a slavedriver when it comes to keeping software up to do with the rules. Whoever works on the bot should keep this in mind. For me, I would be willing to do such work. I would prefer PHP/mySQL. However, I am also capable of working with Java Servlets. Heck, if we get serious about this, we could probably open up a project on sourceforge.net and get all sorts of project management functionality through them... ;-) From htowsner@s... Sun Jun 10 20:14:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 03:14:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 96450 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 03:14:38 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5B3Eb416406 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:14:34 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Public Opinion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: Henry Towsner My suspicion is that if we start using computer programs, it will slowly expand to be responsible for most of the game, and we want it to be able to handle whatever we need it to handle. As for who would build it, my inclination would be to insist that as many players as possible be involved enough that they could take over maintenance. One person might direct the project and handle much of the coding, but we definitely don't want to be dependant on anyone. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law From dmarsh3000@h... Mon Jun 11 13:10:55 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 11 Jun 2001 20:10:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 14586 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ei.egroups.com) (10.1.2.114) by mta1 with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: dmarsh3000@h... Received: from [10.1.10.65] by ei.egroups.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2001 20:01:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:01:17 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Be sure to vote Message-ID: <9g382d+va92@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 309 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 65.7.162.112 From: "Dan Marsh" I've checked the voting -- 5 votes received on each bill, which is only about half. Remember to vote. And those who've voted, be sure you've voted on all bills: I see that Dylan has voted on Bill 1 and none of the remainder, and Ryan on all BUT bill 1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls DM From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Tue Jun 12 09:03:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 56179 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mw.egroups.com) (10.1.2.2) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.81] by mw.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 14483 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Date: 12 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 Message-ID: <992361725.3784.14467.a16@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: calendar From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Reminder - Voting on Bills 1-4 ends MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Voting on Bills 1-4 ends Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 Time: 12:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Be sure to vote! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls From mittnox@y... Tue Jun 12 09:17:41 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 16:17:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 4546 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hl.egroups.com) (10.1.10.44) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.118] by hl.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 16:17:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:17:28 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 3 Message-ID: <9g5fao+ru6f@e...> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 580 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... > >Why do you feel this way? ... Is it a style preference? > > Well, in part, yes. In part, because real legislatures don't act this way > (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). And in part, > because it makes archiving the game harder; we must save rule 7.3 as well as > the bill which created it. But mostly, it just seems sloppy to me. (So > maybe it's just a style preference: "poor form." But don't real legislatures make laws which create programs that automatically lapse unless they are re-approved? Isn't that a similar thing? Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 12 13:39:28 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 20:39:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 21662 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.15.89) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:39:14 -0700 Received: from 65.7.162.112 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:39:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.7.162.112] To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:39:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jun 2001 20:39:14.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE218D80:01C0F37F] From: "Dan Marsh" >From: mittnox@y... > > In part, because real legislatures don't act this way > > (because they can pass Acts of Parliament, or whatever). > >But don't real legislatures make laws which create programs that >automatically lapse unless they are re-approved? Isn't that a similar >thing? > >Mittnox Well, OK, you've got me. But I'm not of the impression that those laws go away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act. My best example is the Michigan State Constitution. The 1963 constitution includes temporary sections (http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), designed to tide the state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred. However, these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution. DM _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From htowsner@s... Tue Jun 12 14:56:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@s... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 21:56:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 66091 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 21:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.14.23) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 21:56:38 -0000 Received: from [128.12.55.129] (toyon-00-119.Stanford.EDU [128.12.55.129]) by smtp1.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f5CLuc401188 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: htowsner@h... Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:56:35 -0700 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1219739498==_ma============" From: Henry Towsner --============_-1219739498==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Well, OK, you've got me. But I'm not of the impression that those laws go >away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act. > >My best example is the Michigan State Constitution. The 1963 constitution >includes temporary sections >(http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), >designed to tide the >state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred. However, >these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution. I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law --============_-1219739498==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3
Well, OK, you've got me.  But I'm not of the impression that those laws go
away when they expire; I think it takes a separate repealing act.

My best example is the Michigan State Constitution.  The 1963 constitution
includes temporary sections
(
http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/constprov.html), designed to tide the
state over while the change from the 1908 constitution occurred.  However,
these temporary sections are still "part" of the constitution.

        I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time.  But I agree that either way it's awkward.
-- 
Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...>

Majority, n.: That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law
--============_-1219739498==_ma============-- From dmarsh3000@h... Tue Jun 12 17:07:21 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 00:07:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 86091 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta1 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 23:37:38 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010612233737.UFAX29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:37:37 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Bill 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c0f398$c0e9cbe0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I held the Michigan Constitution as my example because, well, in my political days, guess where I worked? I do agree that broadly speaking we should forge our own path, however, rather than imitate one system or another. =20 In any case, we seem to have agreement that self-repealing rules are at best awkward. I=92m not sure how Public Opinion would react to this general feeling on our part; perhaps we=92ll find out. =20 Speaking of public opinion, I should perhaps say that while Bill 5 has a Public Opinion of -15, your King is very much for it. We aren=92t up to voting on Bill 5 yet, but I wanted to restate that Public Opinion is not always my opinion. I strongly favor someone having editing privileges. -----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Sunset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time. But I agree that either way it's awkward. -- Henry Towsner =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3

I held the Michigan Constitution as my example because, well, in my political days, gue= ss where I worked?  I do agree th= at broadly speaking we should forge our own path, however, rather than imitate= one system or another.

 

In any case, we seem to have agreement t= hat self-repealing rules are at best awkward.&= nbsp; I=92m not sure how Public Opinion would react to this general feeling on our part; perhaps we=92ll find out.

 

Speaking of public opinion, I should per= haps say that while Bill 5 has a Public Opinion of -15, your King is very much for it.  We aren=92t up to voting on Bill 5 yet, but I wanted to restate that Public Opinion is not always my opinion.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  I strongly favor someon= e having editing privileges.

-----Original Message----- From: Henry Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]

        I'm not sure I'd hold American laws up as an example, but regardless I think Su= nset clauses do actually repeal the law if it isn't renewed in time.  But I agree that either way it's awkward.

--

Henry Towsner <htowsner@s...= du>


------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C0F377.39D82BE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0F377.39D82BE0-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 09:24:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32794 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 16:09:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.10.81] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2001 16:07:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 23695 invoked by uid 0); 13 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Date: 13 Jun 2001 16:02:07 -0000 Message-ID: <992448127.6687.23692.a16@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: calendar From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Reminder - Bill Submission Deadline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Bill Submission Deadline Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 Time: 12:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Submit bills to the King by noon Thursday to get them onto the current week's Agenda. From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 13 10:34:44 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 17:34:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 89685 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hn.egroups.com) (10.1.2.221) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:02 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.132] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 13 Jun 2001 17:24:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:23:59 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 3 Message-ID: <9g87jf+c4nt@e...> In-Reply-To: <001501c0f398$c0e9cbe0$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 61 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 13 14:10:29 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 13 Jun 2001 21:10:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 92000 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta1 with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 21:10:07 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010613211006.BJCH29232.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:10:06 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 3 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:10:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c0f44d$5019c860$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <9g87jf+c4nt@e...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why, so there is. =20 (1) Game custom has not developed around whether bills can be amended after submission. My conception was that MPs would devise a system of amendments sort of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in real legislatures. But can a bill be amended by its author while it=92s on the Agenda? My immediate thoughts are, No. (2) If the bill passes in its current form, the rule does not break unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to be meaningless. The King still has the power to make Royal Edits. If he also chooses to publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better. (3) Cappocchi himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday. If someone decides to put a question similar to that posed in either point above, he may get to decide it. (Should there be a rule about The Court recusing itself in some cases?) =20 -----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]=20 There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. Mittnox =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Why, so there is.

 

(1) = ;  Game custom has not developed around w= hether bills can be amended after submission.&nbs= p; My conception was that MPs would devise a system of amendments sort = of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in real legislatures.  But can a bill be amended by its a= uthor while it=92s on the Agenda?  M= y immediate thoughts are, No.

(2) = ;  If the bill passes in its current form= , the rule does not break unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to b= e meaningless.  The King still h= as the power to make Royal Edits.  If= he also chooses to publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better.=

(3) = ;  Cappocchi<= /span> himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday.  If someone decides to= put a question similar to that posed in either point above, he may get to decide = it.  (Should there be a rule about The = Court recusing itself in some cases?)

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

-----Original Message----- From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...]

There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5= .

Mi= ttnox

 


------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C0F42B.C9115020-- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C0F42B.C9115020-- From dmarsh3000@h... Wed Jun 13 20:43:35 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 Jun 2001 03:43:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 82305 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l8.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 03:42:33 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010614034230.FIBJ12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:42:30 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Voting Results: Bills 1 - 4 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:43:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000401c0f484$22423a80$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill 1 (Mittnox): 9-0-0 in favor. Cappocchi, Mittnox, Henry, Ryan, BallTurret, Madison, Kevan, Dylan, and Jeffrey J. Weston all gain 30 political capital (or will once Bill 3 passes). The text of Bill 1 I am assigning Statute Number 1.3, as per =A73.3. =20 Bill 2 (Henry Towsner): 7-0-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Kevan, BallTurret, Cappocchi, Jeffrey J. Weston, and Madison all gain 15 political capital. Mittnox (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. =A7=A72.2.1, 2.3, and 2.4 are added t= o the ruleset, and =A74.6 is amended. As per new =A72.2.1, each MPs now has ten seats in Parliament. I put up for discussion: by the wording of =A72.2.1, does the King also get seats in Parliament? I don=92t yet want t= o submit this to The Court, because that=92s me, for the moment. =20 Bill 3 (Mittnox): 6-1-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, Kevan, BallTurret, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all gain 5 political capital. Cappocchi (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. Madison (who OPPOSEd) loses 5. =A76.3 is fixed (thanks, Mittnox). =A77.3 comes into existence, has effect= , and repeals itself, as per its text. =20 Bill 4 (Ryan): 6-1-1 in favor. Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, BallTurret, Cappocchi, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all lose 3 political capital. Kevan (who voted PRESENT) gains 0. Madison (who OPPOSEd) gains 3. =A7=A73.3 and 4.4 are amended; Statute Numbers are now Statutory Identifiers. =20 You should get poll results from the group in about 20 minutes; I=92m working on the Web page as I write this.=20 =20=20=20=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill 1 (Mittnox):=A0 9-0-0 in favor.=A0 Cappocchi= , Mittnox, Henry, Ryan, BallTurret= , Madison, Kevan, Dylan, and Jeffrey J. Weston all gain 30 political capital (or will once Bill 3 passes).=A0 The text of Bill 1 I am assigning Sta= tute Number 1.3, as per =A73.3.

 

Bill 2 (Henry Towsn= er): 7-0-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Kev= an, BallTurret, Cappocchi, Je= ffrey J. Weston, and Madison all gain 15 political capital.=A0 Mittnox (= who voted PRESENT) gains 0.=A0 =A7=A72.2.1, 2= .3, and 2.4 are added to the ruleset, and =A74.6 is amended= .=A0 As per new =A72.2.1, each MPs now has= ten seats in Parliament.=A0 I put up for disc= ussion: by the wording of =A72.2.1, does the King also get seats in Parliament?=A0 I don’t yet want to submit this= to The Court, because that’s me, for the moment.

 

Bill 3 (Mittnox): 6-1-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, Kevan, BallTurret, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all gain 5 politic= al capital.=A0 Cappocchi (who voted PRESENT) gains 0.=A0 Madison (who OPP= OSEd) loses 5.=A0 =A76.3 is fixed (thanks, Mittnox).=A0 =A77.3 comes into existence, has effect, and repeals itself, as per its text.

 

Bill 4 (Ryan): 6-1-1 in favor.=A0 Henry, Ryan, Mittnox, BallTurret, Cappocchi, and Jeffrey J. Weston, all lose 3 political capital.=A0 Kevan (who voted PRESENT) gains 0.= =A0 Madison (who OPPOSEd) gains 3.=A0 =A7=A73.3 and 4.4 are amended; Statut= e Numbers are now Statutory Identifiers.

 

You should get poll results from the gro= up in about 20 minutes; I’m working on the Web page as I write this.

=A0=A0 = =A0

 

------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C0F462.9B383BA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C0F462.9B309A80-- From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:43 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 82977 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <992493162.291.68388.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 1 (Mittnox) - Final Public Opinion +30 CHOICES AND RESULTS - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 0 votes, 0.00% - FAVOR, 9 votes, 100.00% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - OPPOSE - PRESENT (no vote) - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - mittnox@y... - kevan@s... - dbaker@b... - sp4mnet@h... - ryan_shannon@y... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - cactusdave_2000@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:48 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83133 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:48 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:47 -0000 Message-ID: <992493167.199.68388.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 2 (Henry Towsner) – Current Public Opinion +15 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 7 votes, 87.50% - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - kevan@s... - sp4mnet@h... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - cactusdave_2000@y... - OPPOSE - PRESENT (no vote) - mittnox@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83313 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:54 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:53 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:50 -0000 Message-ID: <992493170.252.68318.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 3 (Mittnox) – Current Public Opinion +5 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 6 votes, 75.00% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 12.50% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - mittnox@y... - kevan@s... - sp4mnet@h... - jjweston@k... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - sallyvacuum@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Wed Jun 13 21:32:59 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 71887 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 04:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hj.egroups.com) (10.1.10.42) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.1.35] by hj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 04:32:58 -0000 Date: 14 Jun 2001 04:32:53 -0000 Message-ID: <992493173.88.68318.mp@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 4 (Ryan Shannon) – Current Public Opinion –3 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 6 votes, 75.00% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 12.50% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 12.50% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - htowsner@s... - ryan_shannon@y... - mittnox@y... - sp4mnet@h... - sallyvacuum@y... - jjweston@k... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - kevan@s... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From sallyvacuum@y... Thu Jun 14 10:43:32 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: sallyvacuum@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 83376 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ci.egroups.com) (10.1.2.81) by mta1 with SMTP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sallyvacuum@y... Received: from [10.1.10.122] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 14 Jun 2001 17:43:31 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:43:29 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Bill 5? Message-ID: <9gat41+v0tp@e...> In-Reply-To: <000201c0f44d$5019c860$70a20741@g...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1609 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 64.236.243.243 From: sallyvacuum@y... What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times now and I don't see any typo. The second sentence of Bill 5 is: "All such Royal Edits must be published by the King to Parliament in the same fashion as the publication of the Agenda of Parliament. " Is it a grammar rather than spelling error? In which case I confess that the sentence could be clearer, (you don't really publish things "to" someone, do you?) but I don't see why it wouldn't be effective. More comments please? Cappocchi --- In leg-nomic@y..., "Dan Marsh" wrote: > Why, so there is. > > (1) Game custom has not developed around whether bills can be amended > after submission. My conception was that MPs would devise a system of > amendments sort of as they went along, paralleling amendment systems in > real legislatures. But can a bill be amended by its author while it's > on the Agenda? My immediate thoughts are, No. > (2) If the bill passes in its current form, the rule does not break > unalterably even in the second sentence is decided to be meaningless. > The King still has the power to make Royal Edits. If he also chooses to > publish those edits to Parliament, so much the better. > (3) Cappocchi himself sits on The Court beginning Sunday. If someone > decides to put a question similar to that posed in either point above, > he may get to decide it. (Should there be a rule about The Court > recusing itself in some cases?) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mittnox@y... [mailto:mittnox@y...] > > > There is a typo in the second sentence of Bill 5. > > Mittnox From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 14 21:39:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 15111 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta1 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 04:39:25 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010615043924.ZWYO12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:39:24 -0700 To: Subject: RE: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 5? Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:40:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c0f555$42e98780$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <9gat41+v0tp@e...> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =93All such Royal Edis must be published . . .=94 =20 You skipped a letter. Not a big deal, stuff happens. The problem is that we=92ve set no procedure for amending bills on the Agenda. =20 I=92ve seen =93close enough=94 rules in some Nomics, which try to get acros= s =93ignore misspellings,=94 but they have turned out not to work as intended= . -----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y... [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:43 PM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Bill 5? =20 What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times now and I don't see=20 any typo. Cappocchi=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=93= All such Royal Edis must be published . . .=94=

 

You skipped a letter.  Not a big deal, stuff happens.  The problem is that we=92ve set no procedure for amending bills on the Agenda.<= o:p>

 

I=92ve seen =93close enough=94 rules in some Nomics, which try to get across =93ignore misspelling= s,=94 but they have turned out not to work as intended.

-----Original Message----- From: sallyvacuum@y...= [mailto:sallyvacuum@y...]
Sent
= : Thursday, June 14, 2001 1:43 PM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject: [leg-nomic] Re: Bil= l 5?

 

What is it? I've looked at this puppy 10 times n= ow and I don't see
any
typo.


Cappocchi


------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C0F533.BBD7E780-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C0F533.BBD7E780-- From dmarsh3000@h... Thu Jun 14 21:56:04 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 15 Jun 2001 04:56:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 34148 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.144) by mta2 with SMTP; 15 Jun 2001 04:56:03 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010615045602.PMK12048.femail17.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:56:02 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Thoughts, musings, questions, and exhortations Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 00:56:48 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c0f557$95d50760$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20" ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I=92m surprised to see nobody expending Political Capital, now that MPs have some, to affect Bills 5 and 6. Do the bills not really matter to anyone, or do you simply feel that the PC you have won=92t change PO much on these bills? =20 I know there are some other ideas for bills out there. We have a fair number of players, so I=92d expect some lively debate on the virtue of, say, political parties. (On that, I=92ve heard some debate privately, but nothing yet to the group, and certainly no proposed bill.) =20 In private discussion I=92ve heard suggestions for filibustering, creating a cabinet, and other things, but no bills yet (or even proposed bills). I=92m particularly interested in seeing bills from MPs who are not Nomic regulars, although the crowd I promoted the group to does contain of a number of regulars. =20 I=92d also like to make a suggestion for a bill: Amend =A74.5 to =93at least one day,=94 so that voting doesn=92t close almost immediately before the deadline for the next round of bills. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

I’m surprised to see nobody expend= ing Political Capital, now that MPs have some, to affect Bills 5 and 6.=A0 Do the bills not really matter to any= one, or do you simply feel that the PC you have won’t change PO much on these bills?

 

I know there are some other ideas for bi= lls out there.=A0 We have a fair number= of players, so I’d expect some lively debate on the virtue of, say, political parties.=A0 (On that, I&#= 8217;ve heard some debate privately, but nothing yet to the group, and certainly no proposed bill.)

 

In private discussion I’ve heard s= uggestions for filibustering, creating a cabinet, and other things, but no bills yet (= or even proposed bills).=A0 I’m particularly interested in seeing bills from MPs who are not Nomic regulars, although the crowd I promoted the group to does contain of a numb= er of regulars.

 

I’d also like to make a suggestion= for a bill:=A0 Amend =A74.5 = to “at least one day,” so that voting doesn’t close almost immediately before the deadline for the next round of bills.

 

------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C0F536.0ECC8F20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0F536.0EC36760-- From htowsner@s... Fri Jun 15 22:14:53 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@S... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 36984 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal0.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.15.238) by mta1 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 05:14:53 -0000 Received: (from htowsner@l...) by cardinal0.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f5G5EqE12819; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Proto-Proposal Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Henry P Towsner This would create the administrative architecture which will become necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about. Create Statute 8.1, reading Directorships are positions defined by Parliament. Because they are apolitical in nature, they are appointed by the King and serve at the King's discretion. A directorship defined in the statutes shall have a specific list of duties which the director who holds that position shall be responsible for carrying out. A director may appoint assistant directors, who shall serve at the director's whim, but the King may override any decision regarding the appointment or removal of an assistant director. A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring they their duties are carried out. A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the royal treasury at the King's discretion. Create Statute 8.2, reading The Technical Director is a directorship. The Technical Director shall be responsible for the implementation of such software as is required to carry out the will of Parliament. From dmarsh3000@h... Fri Jun 15 22:36:36 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 05:36:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 21998 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 05:36:35 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010616053634.YSUD4833.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:36:34 -0700 To: Subject: RE: Proto-Proposal Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:37:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c0f626$69ecf160$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 In-Reply-To: X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sort-of expected Parliament to elect its officers (or cabinet). I have no problem with appointing them, but I=92m curious as to what the will of Parliament is on that issue. =20 Should the proposed 8.1 be split into several Statutes? For example, one statute could cover appointment (or whatever) of directors, while another covers assistant directors, and a third covers the specification of directors=92 responsibilities. This is a style choice, but I like to be able to tweak the =93variables=94 of a game individually. =20 (I=92ve been reading a lot of programming stuff, lately, which is probably why =93variables=94 occurred to me. In particular, the type of programming I=92ve been reading about is the creation of old-style text adventures, =E1 la Zork and the other Infocom classics of the early- to mid-80s. It just occurred to me that creating these types of games is similar to participating in a Nomic; one creates a world. This feels sort of incestuous, in a sense: MUDs are/were an attempt to turn the =93Zork=94 concept into a multiplayer experience; they are one successor to Zork and its ilk. And of course, the first (known) large-scale Nomic game online was =93Nomic World,=94 which took place on a MUD. I wonder why it is, that I find this fascination with world-building?) =20 -----Original Message----- From: Henry P Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]=20 Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 1:15 AM To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject:=20 =20 This would create the administrative architecture which will become necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about. Create Statute 8.1, reading Directorships are positions defined by Parliament. Because they are apolitical in nature, they are appointed by the King and serve at the King's discretion. A directorship defined in the statutes shall have a specific list of duties which the director who holds that position shall be responsible for carrying out. A director may appoint assistant directors, who shall serve at the director's whim, but the King may override any decision regarding the appointment or removal of an assistant director. A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring they their duties are carried out. A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the royal treasury at the King's discretion. Create Statute 8.2, reading The Technical Director is a directorship. The Technical Director shall be responsible for the implementation of such software as is required to carry out the will of Parliament. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor =20 Click for Details Click for Details =20 =20 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I sort-of expected Parliament to elect i= ts officers (or cabinet).=A0 I have no= problem with appointing them, but I’m curious as to what the will of Parliame= nt is on that issue.

 

Should the proposed 8.1 be split into several Statutes?=A0 For example, o= ne statute could cover appointment (or whatever) of directors, while another covers assistant directors, and a third covers the specification of directo= rs’ responsibilities.=A0 This is a styl= e choice, but I like to be able to tweak the “variables” of a gam= e individually.

 

(I’ve been reading a lot of programming stuff, lately, which is probably why “variables” occurred to me.=A0 In particular, t= he type of programming I’ve been reading about is the creation of old-style t= ext adventures, =E1 la Zork and the other Infocom classics of the early- to mid-80s.=A0 It just occurred to me that creating = these types of games is similar to participating in a Nomic; one creates a world.=A0 This feels sort of incest= uous, in a sense:=A0 MU= Ds are/were an attempt to turn the “ZorkR= 21; concept into a multiplayer experience; they are one successor to Zork and its ilk.=A0 And of course, the first (known) large-scale Nomic game online was &= #8220;Nomic World,” which took place on a MUD.= =A0 I wonder why it is, that I find this fascination with world-building?)

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;color:navy'> = ;

-----Original Message----- From: Henry P Towsner [mailto:htowsner@s...]
Sent
:
Saturday, June 16, 2001 <= /font>1:15 AM
To: leg-nomic@y...= m
Subject:

 

This would create the administrative architectur= e which will become
necessary as we try to implement some of the things we're talking about.

Create Statute 8.1, reading
      Directorships= are positions defined by Parliament.  Because they
are apolitical in nature, they are appointed= by the King and serve at the
King's discretion.  A directorship defi= ned in the statutes shall have a
specific list of duties which the director w= ho holds that position shall
be responsible for carrying out.  A dir= ector may appoint assistant
directors, who shall serve at the director's= whim, but the King may
override any decision regarding the appointm= ent or removal of an assistant
director.  A director always remains personally responsible for ensuring
they their duties are carried out.
      A director or assistant director may be paid a salary from the
royal treasury at the King's discretion.

Create Statute 8.2, reading
      The Technical Director is a directorship.  The Technical Director
shall be responsible for the implementation = of such software as is
required to carry out the will of Parliament= .



To unsubscribe from t= his group, send an email to:
leg-nomic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=



Yo= ur use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C0F604.E2E2F280-- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0F604.E2DB5160-- From htowsner@s... Sat Jun 16 09:04:00 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: htowsner@S... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 16 Jun 2001 16:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 34704 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cardinal0.Stanford.EDU) (171.64.15.238) by mta2 with SMTP; 16 Jun 2001 16:03:27 -0000 Received: (from htowsner@l...) by cardinal0.Stanford.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f5GG3PT07106; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:03:25 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: Re: [leg-nomic] RE: Proto-Proposal In-Reply-To: <000a01c0f626$69ecf160$70a20741@g...> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Henry P Towsner The reason I suggested that the Directors be appointed is that they're administrative, non-political positions. They should be chosen based on technical skills rather than politics, which is why it makes more sense for the King to select them. The other reason I like this is because if the administrative positions which we need to make the game run are "protected" then we can be free to abuse and manipulate the political positions as much as we want for our own entertainment. From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 17 20:49:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25221 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 03:49:17 -0000 Date: 18 Jun 2001 03:49:16 -0000 Message-ID: <992836156.322.64974.ac@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 5 (Royal Editing Privelege, Cappocchi) -- Final Public Opinion -15 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Sun Jun 17 20:50:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 57689 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hh.egroups.com) (10.1.10.40) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: notify@yahoogroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.52] by hh.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 03:50:22 -0000 Date: 18 Jun 2001 03:50:18 -0000 Message-ID: <992836218.654.64955.ac@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: poll From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: New poll for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the leg-nomic group: Bill 6 (Acts of Parliament, Henry Towsner) -- Final Public Opinion +10 o FAVOR o OPPOSE o PRESENT (no vote) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From dmarsh3000@h... Sun Jun 17 20:51:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: dmarsh3000@h... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 75660 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com) (24.0.95.128) by mta3 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 03:51:56 -0000 Received: from c1360097a ([65.7.162.112]) by femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010618035155.UVFE4833.femail19.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c...> for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:51:55 -0700 To: "Legislative Nomic" Subject: Voting open, Bills 5-6 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 23:52:53 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c0f7aa$2775b3a0$70a20741@g...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-eGroups-From: "Dan Marsh" From: "Dan Marsh" ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Voting is open on Bills 5 and 6, a few hours late. In any case, it will close around midnight Wednesday night, now. Looking forward to more bills - - - ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Voting is open on Bills 5 and 6, a few h= ours late.=A0 In any case, it will close= around midnight= Wednesday night, now.

 

Looking forward to more bills=A0 - - -

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C0F788.A06413A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="image001.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD//gAcU29mdHdhcmU6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBPZmZpY2X/2wBDAAoH BwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8lJCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8 SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAuADoBAREA/8QAGQAAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYHBQQC/8QAMxAAAQMDAwIE AwYHAAAAAAAAAQIDBAAFEQYSIQcxIjh1shNCUSMyQWGBkxUWN4ORs8H/3QAEACj/2gAIAQEAAD8A rc+W9DYS4xbpM9RVtLcdTYUBg8/aLSMcfXPPaka5daLFZ7i/b7hZ71HlR1bXG1stZB/c5BHII4II Ioi9Z7LOYkPw7FqCQ1FTvfcaiIWlpOCcqIX4RgHk/Q1tWPqVpLUD7MaJdkNynkpIYkIU0rcSBsyo bVKyQMJJz+Ga37lcoVntz9wuEhEeLHTuccX2A/6SeABySQBSNbetFivFxYt9vs96kSpCtrbaGWsk /ucADkk8AAk08wJb0xhTj9ukwFBW0NyFNlRGBz9mtQxz9c8dq6qKgGq/MMx6lA9rVMGstG3LQt4O tdFD4bLeVTYSU5QhPdR2ju0ccp+XuMAeDP1k1p7qHo1/WlrKIV3gJQJ0dS0gqGQMKJIycfcUOVAb cZwE++jk7+ZJybffJz0z+CNJetcRzltHO1Th48SkZQEbidoUdo44zNKeYZ/1Kf7Xav8ARRUA1X5h mPUoHtaq/wBJlv6Wactur3NQsR/otiGQPhMO5OVpH+No7JOSPl2xnpF/U60f3v8AS5W1pTzDP+pT /a7V/ooqAar8wzHqUD2tVf6VuoermtI6XkSEPoTcJCS3CbJG4rPBWAQchAO45GOAPmFTzoVpZ8zp OppUfbHS0WIanGwd6ifGtBJyNoG3IHO9QzwRWZpTzDP+pT/a7V/orlnuXBthJt0aNId3YKJEhTKQ nB5ylC+c44x+tSa+9MdbXnWTup25lliSi+h5lKHnFBooCQju34iAkZ4wTngdqbXm+qrrDjaHtKMq WkpDiBIKkEjuNwIyPzBH5VkjpE/e7w1d9Zaieur3wkBbDLQaQCMHYFD5PvfdSknOeDmnyULhCYjs WW3QXGm07PhuyVR0tpAASEhLa+MZ44xgd/wmFp6aa0teuRqsv2J2QqS4+4yHnkoPxNwWB4CRwo4P OOM5qqwHLg4wo3GNGju7sBEeQp5JTgc5UhHOc8Y/Wuqv/9Cy0UUUUUUV/9k= ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C0F788.A06413A0-- From mittnox@y... Mon Jun 18 15:19:15 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 18 Jun 2001 22:19:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 61475 invoked from network); 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ef.egroups.com) (10.1.2.111) by mta1 with SMTP; 18 Jun 2001 22:19:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.133] by ef.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Jun 2001 22:18:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:18:51 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Proto-bill Message-ID: <9gluob+pmss@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2012 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.5.239.178 From: mittnox@y... Here is a Proto-bill: "Statute 2.5 >From time to time, the Law may allow Members of Parliament to lose their party affiliation. Such Members of Parliament are known as 'unaligned,' and vote based on public opinion as follows: If public opinion on a bill is positive, unaligned MPs will vote FOR the bill. If public opinion on a bill is negative, unaligned MPs will vote AGAINST the bill. If public opinion on a bill is zero, unaligned MPs will declare PRESENCE on the bill. Statute 2.6 Immediately after political capital is calculated for each Agenda, the King shall announce the beginning of the MP Auction. The auction shall last until the next Agenda of Parliament is posted. During the MP Auction, each Party Leader may, if he wishes, communicate to the King a bid of a positive amount of political capital. He may change his bid at any time before the Auction ends by alerting the King of his desire to do so, and of his new bid. When the MP Auction ends, the amount of political capital bid by each Party Leader is subtracted from his party's political capital total. Statute 2.7 Immediately after the close of each MP Auction, one MP from each political party having at least two members will become unaligned unless it's Party Leader bid at least 1 political capital in the MP Auction. Statute 2.8 For every set of equal bids in each MP Auction, one new seat in Parliament is created. The MP holding the seat is unaligned. Statute 2.9 If there are unaligned MPs in Parliament, they might join political parties based on the ratio of (Political Capital the party's Leader bid in the MP Auction) to (Seats in Parliament). The party whose ratio is highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP, plus a second if there are three or more total unaligned MPs. If there are two or more unaligned MPs, the political party whose ratio is the second highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP. Unaligned MPs who join political parties are no longer unaligned." From mittnox@y... Wed Jun 20 12:18:56 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 20 Jun 2001 19:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 1887 invoked from network); 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ej.egroups.com) (64.211.240.230) by mta2 with SMTP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:56 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.2.163] by ej.egroups.com with NNFMP; 20 Jun 2001 19:17:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:17:03 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Proto-bill Message-ID: <9gqsrf+ciug@e...> In-Reply-To: <9gluob+pmss@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2466 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Hey...there's been no discussion on my proto-bill, so I thought I'd start some. I know it would add a new layer of complexity to Leg-Nomic, but is that a bad thing? The only point to having political parties is if they have the possibility of becoming unequal in some way...this is a way that can happen. What do you think? Mittnox > Here is a Proto-bill: > > > "Statute 2.5 > > From time to time, the Law may allow Members of Parliament to lose > their party affiliation. Such Members of Parliament are known > as 'unaligned,' and vote based on public opinion as follows: > > If public opinion on a bill is positive, unaligned MPs will vote FOR > the bill. > > If public opinion on a bill is negative, unaligned MPs will vote > AGAINST the bill. > > If public opinion on a bill is zero, unaligned MPs will declare > PRESENCE on the bill. > > Statute 2.6 > > Immediately after political capital is calculated for each Agenda, > the King shall announce the beginning of the MP Auction. The auction > shall last until the next Agenda of Parliament is posted. > > During the MP Auction, each Party Leader may, if he wishes, > communicate to the King a bid of a positive amount of political > capital. He may change his bid at any time before the Auction ends by > alerting the King of his desire to do so, and of his new bid. > > When the MP Auction ends, the amount of political capital bid by each > Party Leader is subtracted from his party's political capital total. > > Statute 2.7 > > Immediately after the close of each MP Auction, one MP from each > political party having at least two members will become unaligned > unless it's Party Leader bid at least 1 political capital in the MP > Auction. > > Statute 2.8 > > For every set of equal bids in each MP Auction, one new seat in > Parliament is created. The MP holding the seat is unaligned. > > Statute 2.9 > > If there are unaligned MPs in Parliament, they might join political > parties based on the ratio of (Political Capital the party's Leader > bid in the MP Auction) to (Seats in Parliament). The party whose > ratio is highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP, plus a > second if there are three or more total unaligned MPs. If there are > two or more unaligned MPs, the political party whose ratio is the > second highest will gain the loyalty of one unaligned MP. > > Unaligned MPs who join political parties are no longer unaligned." From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 21 00:13:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68800 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Date: 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Message-ID: <993107589.8.45155.l9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 5 (Royal Editing Privelege, Cappocchi) -- Final Public Opinion -15 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 1 votes, 33.33% - OPPOSE, 1 votes, 33.33% - PRESENT (no vote), 1 votes, 33.33% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - FAVOR - sallyvacuum@y... - OPPOSE - cactusdave_2000@y... - PRESENT (no vote) - mittnox@y... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Thu Jun 21 00:13:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 68808 invoked by uid 7800); 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Date: 21 Jun 2001 07:13:09 -0000 Message-ID: <993107589.9.45155.l9@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: polls From: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: Poll results for leg-nomic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following leg-nomic poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Bill 6 (Acts of Parliament, Henry Towsner) -- Final Public Opinion +10 CHOICES AND RESULTS - FAVOR, 2 votes, 100.00% - OPPOSE, 0 votes, 0.00% - PRESENT (no vote), 0 votes, 0.00% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leg-nomic For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ From mittnox@y... Tue Jun 26 13:48:07 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: mittnox@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 26 Jun 2001 20:48:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 41871 invoked from network); 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO f19.egroups.com) (10.1.2.136) by mta1 with SMTP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: mittnox@y... Received: from [10.1.10.68] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Jun 2001 20:47:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:47:55 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: ??? Message-ID: <9hasdr+scnd@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 43 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 208.17.166.196 From: mittnox@y... Is there anything happening here? Mittnox From jmorgantx@p... Sun Dec 02 17:19:59 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmorgantx@p... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 86239 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.172) by m4.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.81) by mta2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jmorgantx@p... Received: from [10.1.4.22] by n31.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 01:19:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 01:19:54 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: SPAM- A Pure n_omic Message-ID: <9uejvq+bop1@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 639 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.254.176.16 From: jmorgantx@p... X-Yahoo-Profile: redneck_penguin Season's Greetings, I am very interested in playing a very short round (in the neighbourhood of one or two months long) of Nomic based upon the Pure Nomic ruleset. The Pure Nomic ruleset is: 1. All players must agree to any changes to the game. 2. Players take turns suggesting a new rule. I would like to play this during the holiday season when many folks are home from university and have time to play. I think play should begin when five people are interested. Please contact me at jmorgantx@p... or view the slightly cluttered n_omic site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n_omic Thank you for your time, Jim Morgan From jmorgantx@p... Sun Dec 02 17:20:09 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: jmorgantx@p... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7518 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m8.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2001 01:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n35.groups.yahoo.com) (216.115.96.85) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: jmorgantx@p... Received: from [10.1.10.99] by n35.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 01:20:08 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: SPAM- A Pure n_omic Message-ID: <9uek08+t7e8@e...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 639 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 63.254.176.16 From: jmorgantx@p... X-Yahoo-Profile: redneck_penguin Season's Greetings, I am very interested in playing a very short round (in the neighbourhood of one or two months long) of Nomic based upon the Pure Nomic ruleset. The Pure Nomic ruleset is: 1. All players must agree to any changes to the game. 2. Players take turns suggesting a new rule. I would like to play this during the holiday season when many folks are home from university and have time to play. I think play should begin when five people are interested. Please contact me at jmorgantx@p... or view the slightly cluttered n_omic site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/n_omic Thank you for your time, Jim Morgan From jayuehd34@y... Thu Apr 18 23:45:26 2002 Return-Path: X-Sender: jayuehd34@y... X-Apparently-To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_1); 19 Apr 2002 06:45:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 82920 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2002 14:52:07 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0000 To: leg-nomic@yahoogroups.com Subject: try this out Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 228 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "jayuehd34" X-Originating-IP: 208.49.145.105 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=110157649 X-Yahoo-Profile: jayuehd34 This site has a lot of great cards. I was able to get approved in 30 seconds for two different cards. Check it out for yourself. I found this link in another group. It's worth a look at. http://securedcreditcardbadcredit.com