From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 2 16:02:36 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:02:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [P] second axiom of probability In-Reply-To: <3710114.1054384154@cornelius> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 May 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > A proposal for one new rule: > > Second Axiom Of Probability [jwalrus] > > If the rules ever require that a one-sided die should be rolled, the result > of this roll may be assumed to be 1 without any other action being required. Aye. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 2 16:34:19 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:34:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Phase 43 Message-ID: I ride the omnibus (-5 bp) to The (+9 bp, buttercup yellow primary). I drop the Explorer's Compass (+7 bp) and the Scarlet Emerald (+16 bp). The Scarlet Emerald's destination is now Mornington Crescent. I move Banford to Iraq. I move the monkey to Washington, DC (-1 charge) where it steals the pie bomb (-1 charge). I pick up the *ROYAL HONEY*. My turn is over. Total change to brownie points: +27. The's visits increase to 3, making Brigadoon the new Savage Wilderness. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 2 17:07:24 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:07:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Jota in peril! Message-ID: It has come to my attention that Admiral Jota has not posted since May 14. Furthermore, one of the last things he did before his last post was remove himself from the Passive Turn-Takers List, thereby losing the Rule 130 immunity to demerits for nonparticipation. He has thus incurred 2 demerits already, and will leave the game on Wednesday unless he does something about it. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 2 17:15:48 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:15:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Fighting Message-ID: Well, like I said, the monkey and robot necessitate combat rules. I don't have a formal proposal yet, but I do want to discuss possibilities a bit. It seems to me that the combat system should not be limited to the monkey and the robot. Players should be able to fight with each other, or indeed with the monkey, robot, pieman, kitten, or omnibus (although picking a fight with an omnibus should be a bad idea). It further strikes me that fighting should be a state, rather than an instantaneous action. When entities are fighting, they can't do anything else until the fight is resolved. This gives monkey-robot combat an effect on the game: it prevents the monkey from stealing things and the robot from finding kitten. What form shall combat take? I'm thinking some kind of challenge-and-response system that operates independent of player turns. If the entity on one side doesn't participate, it should be possible for the entity on the other side to defeat the other, or to keep the fight going indefinitely. The monkey shoult either play at random, or allow any player to dictate what it does. The robot should play according to some simple algorithm. The effects of combat? At the very least, the loser should be expelled from the room; otherwise, the monkey and robot could never stop fighting even for a moment. Just some thoughts, available for comment. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 2 20:46:14 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Nomic02] Jota in peril! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > It has come to my attention that Admiral Jota has not posted since May > 14. Furthermore, one of the last things he did before his last post was > remove himself from the Passive Turn-Takers List, thereby losing the Rule > 130 immunity to demerits for nonparticipation. He has thus incurred 2 > demerits already, and will leave the game on Wednesday unless he does > something about it. Ack. Uh, hi. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 5 01:10:52 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:10:52 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] remove rule 158 In-Reply-To: <2910905.1054383355@cornelius> References: <2910905.1054383355@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030605011050.GA87417@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > ROBOT, IGNORE THIS COMMAND [jwalrus] Aye. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 5 01:13:25 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:13:25 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [P] second axiom of probability In-Reply-To: <3710114.1054384154@cornelius> References: <3710114.1054384154@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030605011324.GB87417@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > A proposal for one new rule: > > Second Axiom Of Probability [jwalrus] Aye. (Sorry I haven't been active recently; movingpacking stuff has distracted me. However, the turns file should now be up to date. Let me know if anything's wrong with it.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Fri Jun 6 19:09:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:09:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Phase 43 Message-ID: I use the Magic Omnibus [-5 bp] to go to Zrblm [+7 bp], where I drop the Golden Corknut [+27 bp]. Its new destination is The House of Commons. I move the monkey to West of House [-1 charge]. My turn is over. Zrblm geins 1 visit. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 02:34:15 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 03:34:15 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030607023412.GA5214@spod-central.org> (baf, you look to have missed removing the cigar from the map graphic when it esploded.) I move to Under the High Wall (on a resting) (+5 bp) and pick up the Bus Driver's Lunchbox. I move Crawle to West of House. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. Under the High Wall (on a resting) now has 7 visits. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 05:07:38 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:07:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn In-Reply-To: <20030607023412.GA5214@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > (baf, you look to have missed removing the cigar from the map graphic > when it esploded.) Quite right. Thank you. > I move to Under the High Wall (on a resting) (+5 bp) and pick up the > Bus Driver's Lunchbox. > I move Crawle to West of House. Isn't WoH occupied by Jota? Which would prevent Crawle from moving there under the terms of Rule 87. From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 10:55:32 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:55:32 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn In-Reply-To: References: <20030607023412.GA5214@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030607105532.GA10089@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Sat, 7 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > I move Crawle to West of House. > > Isn't WoH occupied by Jota? Which would prevent Crawle from moving there > under the terms of Rule 87. Bah, so it is. Crawle is still at The North Pole, then. Thanks. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 17:04:32 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 18:04:32 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] jwalrus' turn Message-ID: <31015077.1055009072@cornelius> I shall abandon my Strength and then metamorphose, acquiring Flight. Since there is now nothing else I can do, I end my turn. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 17:07:53 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 18:07:53 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] oh, and Message-ID: <31216096.1055009273@cornelius> I vote "Aye" on robotfindsflightcapablekitten [Psmith]. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 17:10:17 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 18:10:17 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [R] second axiom of probability / remove rule 158 Message-ID: <31360313.1055009417@cornelius> The following two proposals have been explicitly or implicitly ratified by all players and so will go into effect one hour from now with the removal of Rule 158 and the creation of a new Rule 159: ROBOT, IGNORE THIS COMMAND [jwalrus] Remove Rule 158. Second Axiom Of Probability [jwalrus] If the rules ever require that a one-sided die should be rolled, the result of this roll may be assumed to be 1 without any other action being required. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 21:09:15 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:09:15 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: robotfindsflightcapablekitten Message-ID: <20030607210915.GB10089@spod-central.org> The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by jwalrus, implicitly by everyone else) and will go into effect adding Rule 160 in one hour from the timestamp of this message. (I believe that the clause attempting to remove an already-removed rule is just inoperative, not invalidating.) robotfindsflightcapablekitten [Psmith] Remove Rule 156. The active player may, during his or her turn, take at most two of the following actions (either two different or the same action twice): * Cause the kitten to move to a room randomly selected from the list of rooms connected to the kitten's location. * Cause the kitten to fly to a room randomly selected from the list of rooms to which it would be possible for the kitten to fly, excluding its current location. * Optionally move the robot, and cause the robot to examine an entity randomly selected from the list of entities which are not the robot and whose locations are equal to the robot's (possibly new) location. If the examination is not completed, no movement will occur. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Sat Jun 7 21:14:47 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:14:47 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] oh, and In-Reply-To: <31216096.1055009273@cornelius> References: <31216096.1055009273@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030607211447.GA13179@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I vote "Aye" on robotfindsflightcapablekitten [Psmith]. I change my votes on Automated Automaton [Psmith] and robotfindsflyingkitten [jwalrus] to nay. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "The danger is that a jelly of the ghostly partner of the quark could : : form spontaneously at any moment, changing the laws of physics of : : the whole Universe." -- BBC online news report 2001-09-06 : From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Jun 8 09:10:24 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 10:10:24 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] oh, and In-Reply-To: <20030607211447.GA13179@spod-central.org> References: <20030607211447.GA13179@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <476835.1055067024@cornelius> --On 7 June 2003 10:14 pm +0100 Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > I change my votes on Automated Automaton [Psmith] and > robotfindsflyingkitten [jwalrus] to nay. Both dead. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 9 19:49:20 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:49:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Phase 43 Message-ID: First, I will make the kitten move. Not fly, just move. Roll pending. From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 9 20:24:30 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Irony Games Dice Server) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Nomic02] Kitten moves Message-ID: <200306092024.h59KOUZ72708@mailbot.onlineplayer.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Kitten moves nomic02@wurb.com requested that 1 roll of a 4-sided die be rolled. Roll them bones ... your dice are Roll 1: 4. Mail was sent to you at nomic02@wurb.com. (Mail addresses have not been confirmed.) --- Irony Games' public PGP key is available at http://www.irony.com/verifyroll.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQBVAwUBPuTs+ryfeleUG9SNAQH/pwH+N0iVMpfEsG1u3eTJl4aL/INeLj2n6hLm 4fOO6spuwg3isIuSryxSnNnr3HrmZnIydG5/4qwo+LWUv3RrTDse6Q== =c55z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nomic02@wurb.com Mon Jun 9 20:00:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 15:00:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] Phase 43 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually this is phase 44, isn't it? Ah well. Anyway, the kitten is at the North Pole now. I think I'm going to leave the kitten alone for now. Anyway, I ride the Magic Omnibus (-5bp) to Iraq (+4bp), turning my buttercup yellow primary into a buttercup yellow secondary and gaining a banana yellow primary. I also pick up the Treasure Imp. My turn is over. Iraq now has 8 visits. From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Jun 10 19:48:12 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:48:12 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030610194811.GA37477@spod-central.org> I believe that I can't move the robot to Brigadoon, as it would mean that I'd be required to roll an infinite number of one-sided dice (I could deem them to be 1s by Rule 159, but they'd still always exceed the number of items on the list and need to be rerolled by Rule 95). So, I move the kitten. Nine options, as far as I can see: Blasted Heath Brigadoon Central Park The House of Commons the Lounge Mornington Crescent the Servants' Quarters West of House West of Nowhere d9 coming up. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Jun 10 20:18:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Irony Games Dice Server) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Nomic02] Kitten movement Message-ID: <200306102018.h5AKI9f87864@mailbot.onlineplayer.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Kitten movement nomic02@wurb.com requested that 1 roll of a 9-sided die be rolled. Roll them bones ... your dice are Roll 1: 6. Mail was sent to you at nomic02@wurb.com. (Mail addresses have not been confirmed.) --- Irony Games' public PGP key is available at http://www.irony.com/verifyroll.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQBVAwUBPuY8/LyfeleUG9SNAQFeZwH/f0sRjmP8hJabeLqSyDCzop1InUwqate2 yFhSFKqFyjVpXOyBNKuFSp2jGZfQFuloW5rICVpQniAsM2JqtF0pAQ== =0ki7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Jun 10 19:56:18 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:56:18 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn In-Reply-To: <20030610194811.GA37477@spod-central.org> References: <20030610194811.GA37477@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030610195618.GA37672@spod-central.org> Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > d9 coming up. Mornington Crescent. Not the result I was hoping for. I fly to the Attic (+6 bp, acquire forest green primary). I move Crawle to Central Park. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. The Attic now has 6 visits. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Tue Jun 10 20:11:05 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:11:05 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: random selection from nothing Message-ID: <20030610201104.GB37672@spod-central.org> A proposal for one new rule. Quantum Foam [Psmith] If an action or game effect requires that an entity be chosen by random selection from an empty set, an entity of the appropriate type shall instead be created, named '*scratch*', and deemed to have been selected; the effect shall be resolved; and *scratch* shall then be immediately removed from the game. (This means that, say, if the pieman ended up in a location that as a result of damage repair had been disconnected from other rooms, and someone bought a pie from him, he would end up at Saturn by Rule 53; currently, I don't believe this situation is catered for at all.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Jun 11 17:51:46 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:51:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Losses Message-ID: It's been established by precedent that rules 11 and 24 do not require any action on the part of a player. If a player does not post for a week, they automatically receive a demerit, whether anyone realizes it or not. If they have three demerits, they leave the game even if no one notices. It's been over a week since Jota's last post. He is still not on the Passive Turn-Takers List, so he has received a demerit and lost. But that's not all. He also had week-long gaps on: Mon, 03 Mar 10:23:16 -0500 - Mon, 10 Mar 20:27:16 -0500 Sun, 20 Apr 02:36:00 -0400 - Fri, 02 May 22:54:25 -0400 Wed, 14 May 12:13:31 -0400 - Mon, 02 Jun 16:46:16 -0400 (The last being the gap noted in a previous post.) So really he was removed from the game on May 21. Furthermore, Adam Biltcliffe has the following gaps: Sat, 01 Mar 20:54:53 -0000 - Mon, 10 Mar 03:42:45 -0000 Fri, 11 Apr 18:33:00 +0100 - Sun, 20 Apr 16:45:39 +0100 Wed, 14 May 17:12:45 +0100 - Sat, 24 May 12:15:31 +0100 Sat, 31 May 14:44:59 +0100 - Sat, 07 Jun 18:04:32 +0100 He was therefore also removed from the game on May 21. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Jun 11 21:31:38 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:31:38 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Losses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030611213138.GA46618@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > It's been established by precedent that rules 11 and 24 do not require any > action on the part of a player. If a player does not post for a week, > they automatically receive a demerit, whether anyone realizes it or not. > If they have three demerits, they leave the game even if no one notices. Are removed from the game, don't lose; this is significant for Rule 33. > So really he was removed from the game on May 21. > He was therefore also removed from the game on May 21. A proposal for one new rule: Ex Post Facto Repeal [Psmith] The players may, by unanimous agreement, alter the state of the game to be as if some specified rule or rules had been removed from the set of rules at a specified date, provided no actions have been taken that would be invalidated by their removal. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 00:10:09 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:10:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Losses In-Reply-To: <20030611213138.GA46618@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > A proposal for one new rule: > > Ex Post Facto Repeal [Psmith] > > The players may, by unanimous agreement, alter the state of the game > to be as if some specified rule or rules had been removed from the set > of rules at a specified date, provided no actions have been taken that > would be invalidated by their removal. Aye, this sounds like a generally good idea to me. However, it doesn't help with the immediate problem. Repealing Rule 24 ex post facto *would* invalidate actions that have been taken - specifically, adding Roger Carbol back into the game after he was removed for nonparticipation back in March. I propose the following instead: Moving the Goalposts Back [baf] Add the following rule: Any player with First Honours wins. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 01:19:42 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:19:42 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Losses In-Reply-To: References: <20030611213138.GA46618@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030612011942.GA48642@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > A proposal for one new rule: > > > > Ex Post Facto Repeal [Psmith] > > > > The players may, by unanimous agreement, alter the state of the game > > to be as if some specified rule or rules had been removed from the set > > of rules at a specified date, provided no actions have been taken that > > would be invalidated by their removal. > > Aye, this sounds like a generally good idea to me. However, it doesn't > help with the immediate problem. Repealing Rule 24 ex post facto *would* > invalidate actions that have been taken - specifically, adding Roger > Carbol back into the game after he was removed for nonparticipation back > in March. That's why I added the "at a specified date" clause; we simply set that date to after Roger's readdition, but before jwalrus and Jota acquired their third demerit. > I propose the following instead: > Moving the Goalposts Back [baf] > Add the following rule: > Any player with First Honours wins. Nay. I don't know whether anyone _does_ have First Honours (no one had 250 points on 21 May), and I'd prefer not to have to trawl through the mail archive to work out which actions happened to be valid and which didn't under an accelerated schedule. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 01:22:26 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 02:22:26 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal Message-ID: <20030612012225.GB48642@spod-central.org> The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by baf, implicitly by Roger and by me) and will come into effect as Rule 161 in one hour from the timestamp of this message. Ex Post Facto Repeal [Psmith] The players may, by unanimous agreement, alter the state of the game to be as if some specified rule or rules had been removed from the set of rules at a specified date, provided no actions have been taken that would be invalidated by their removal. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 01:54:39 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:54:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal In-Reply-To: <20030612012225.GB48642@spod-central.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by baf, > implicitly by Roger and by me) and will come into effect as Rule 161 in > one hour from the timestamp of this message. Now you've done it. Ratifying this now, without Jota and jwalrus voting, is an action that depends on their being out of the game. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 03:34:01 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Admiral Jota) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by baf, > > implicitly by Roger and by me) and will come into effect as Rule 161 in > > one hour from the timestamp of this message. > > Now you've done it. Ratifying this now, without Jota and jwalrus voting, > is an action that depends on their being out of the game. I'm not sure about jwal's situation, but I'm on the passive-- er, was on the passive voters list. So if I'm retconned into still being in the game, I'm also retconned into automatically voting aye. -- _/<-= Admiral Jota =->\_ \<-= jota@shelltown.com =->/ From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 08:13:58 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:13:58 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal In-Reply-To: References: <20030612012225.GB48642@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <20030612081358.GA50864@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > > > On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > > > The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by baf, > > implicitly by Roger and by me) and will come into effect as Rule 161 in > > one hour from the timestamp of this message. > > Now you've done it. Ratifying this now, without Jota and jwalrus voting, > is an action that depends on their being out of the game. But they _are_ currently out of the game. They won't be, and won't have been, but the adoption of a rule only cares about unanimous agreement at the time that it was ratified; it doesn't examine itself subsequently. At worst, you can argue that this rule falls back out of the ruleset after the proposal that it's designed to facilitate comes into effect, but I don't think even that happens. (I'm open to correction, though; if I'm wrong, all that needs to happen is that jwalrus votes Aye, and I post a second ratification. One of my ratification posts will be a lie, but it won't particularly matter which one.) -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 09:41:23 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:41:23 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal In-Reply-To: <20030612081358.GA50864@spod-central.org> References: <20030612081358.GA50864@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <1066673.1055414483@cornelius> --On 12 June 2003 9:13 am +0100 Dylan O'Donnell wrote: > (I'm open to correction, though; if I'm wrong, all that needs to > happen is that jwalrus votes Aye, and I post a second ratification. > One of my ratification posts will be a lie, but it won't particularly > matter which one.) Well, I should vote Aye, then; it rather seems as though the rule ought to have come into effect as soon as you ratified it whether you like it or not, but I suppose this is the point of ex post facto repeal. Also, I should extend the confusion by pointing out that the proposed rule uses the word 'action' for the superclass of things which must not have taken place contingent on the removed rule; by my reading ratification is not an action, although the rules are slightly sloppy in the use of the word prior to its definition in rule 63. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 09:46:43 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:46:43 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: Ex Post Facto Repeal In-Reply-To: <1066673.1055414483@cornelius> References: <20030612081358.GA50864@spod-central.org> <1066673.1055414483@cornelius> Message-ID: <20030612094643.GA51400@spod-central.org> Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > --On 12 June 2003 9:13 am +0100 Dylan O'Donnell > wrote: > > >(I'm open to correction, though; if I'm wrong, all that needs to > >happen is that jwalrus votes Aye, and I post a second ratification. > >One of my ratification posts will be a lie, but it won't particularly > >matter which one.) > > Well, I should vote Aye, then; it rather seems as though the rule ought to > have come into effect as soon as you ratified it whether you like it or > not, but I suppose this is the point of ex post facto repeal. It's either in effect now, or will be in effect one hour from my reratification, depending on which of baf and me is correct. If I don't make the repeal proposal for an hour, that means that it's valid under both versions of reality, current and retconned. > Also, I > should extend the confusion by pointing out that the proposed rule uses the > word 'action' for the superclass of things which must not have taken place > contingent on the removed rule; by my reading ratification is not an > action, although the rules are slightly sloppy in the use of the word prior > to its definition in rule 63. That's what I'm assuming; the question as I see it is whether the addition of Rule 161 wioll haven be "unanimously agreed" under the terms of Rule 6, not whether Rule 161 forbids its own adoption. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 09:48:45 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:48:45 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified(bis): Ex Post Facto Repeal Message-ID: <20030612094844.GA51441@spod-central.org> The following proposal has been agreed unanimously (explicitly by baf and jwalrus, implicitly by Roger, Jota, and me) and will come into effect as Rule 161 in one hour from the timestamp of this message. Ex Post Facto Repeal [Psmith] The players may, by unanimous agreement, alter the state of the game to be as if some specified rule or rules had been removed from the set of rules at a specified date, provided no actions have been taken that would be invalidated by their removal. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 10:55:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:55:31 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: repealing automatic expulsion Message-ID: <20030612105531.GA51847@spod-central.org> A proposal for one new rule and the retrospective removal of one rule. That Will Be $70, Please [Psmith] Alter the state of the game to be as if Rule 11 had been removed at 01 Apr 00:00:00 -0000. Any player with three or more demerits may be removed entirely from the state of the game by sectional consent of all other players. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 12 11:47:13 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:47:13 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Proposal: repealing automatic expulsion In-Reply-To: <20030612105531.GA51847@spod-central.org> References: <20030612105531.GA51847@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <8616980.1055422033@cornelius> > That Will Be $70, Please [Psmith] > > Alter the state of the game to be as if Rule 11 had been > removed at 01 Apr 00:00:00 -0000. > > Any player with three or more demerits may be removed entirely > from the state of the game by sectional consent of all other > players. Although I'm amused by the fact that this change would become illegal at the moment of its ratification if I didn't vote on it, I think I rather ought to do so. So, aye. I wonder how long this would have lasted if we'd allowed wins by paradox? jw From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Jun 15 14:06:46 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:06:46 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Ratified: repealing automatic expuslion Message-ID: <20030615140645.GB9320@spod-central.org> The following proposal has been agreed unanimously; explicitly by jwalrus if and only if he is a player, and implicitly by all other players. It will come into effect removing Rule 11 as from the beginning of April and adding Rule 162, in one hour from the timestamp of this message. That Will Be $70, Please [Psmith] Alter the state of the game to be as if Rule 11 had been removed at 01 Apr 00:00:00 -0000. Any player with three or more demerits may be removed entirely from the state of the game by sectional consent of all other players. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Sun Jun 15 18:39:36 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:39:36 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Current affairs Message-ID: <20030615183936.GA10872@spod-central.org> I believe that, in the New Reality, it's currently jwalrus' turn, due to end at 16 May 01:56:18 unless he ends it earlier. Nothing happened during the entirety of Phase Forty-six, except that Jota Accumulated five bp (bringing him to 263, if my addition is correct). -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Jun 18 10:43:08 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Joseph Mobutu Sese-Seko) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 03:43:08 -0700 Subject: [Nomic02] THANKS Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format --b718d1c7-c9f6-40a7-a4eb-6f62bb203f2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire, President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THEMOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company, based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands and I can be reached on phone number +31-630-067-740 or E-mail me at josephmobutu200@latinmail.com for = more information on how we can proceed in this transaction. Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number or call me up at anytime. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Joseph Mobutu Sese-Seko . --b718d1c7-c9f6-40a7-a4eb-6f62bb203f2d-- From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Jun 18 15:18:48 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:18:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] THANKS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I guess this isn't too surprising. The nomic02 mailing list address has been available to the public on the web for a while now. Rest assured, none of your actual email addresses are exposed. From nomic02@wurb.com Wed Jun 18 16:11:32 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:11:32 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] THANKS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030618161131.GA36557@spod-central.org> Carl Muckenhoupt wrote: > Well, I guess this isn't too surprising. The nomic02 mailing list address > has been available to the public on the web for a while now. Rest > assured, none of your actual email addresses are exposed. And it wasn't a validly-formed proposal anyway. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 19 01:06:31 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Dylan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 02:06:31 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] Turn: Psmith's turn Message-ID: <20030619010630.GA39847@spod-central.org> I fly to The Jaws of Death (+7 bp). I move Gideon Crawle to The Jaws of Death. My turn is completed. It is jwalrus' turn. The Jaws of Death now have 5 vsits. -- : Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ : : "Any sufficiently arcane magic is indistinguishable from technology." : : -- Lebling's Inversion of Clarke's Third Law : From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 19 11:17:54 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:17:54 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] jw's turn In-Reply-To: <20030619010630.GA39847@spod-central.org> References: <20030619010630.GA39847@spod-central.org> Message-ID: <3994984.1056025074@cornelius> I move the Baron to the Lounge, fly to the Lounge (+6bp) and steal Roger Carbol's Bomb from Roger Carbol. I end my turn; the Lounge has 6 visits. jw From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 19 15:13:46 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Carl Muckenhoupt) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:13:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Nomic02] [T] jw's turn In-Reply-To: <3994984.1056025074@cornelius> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > I move the Baron to the Lounge, fly to the Lounge (+6bp) and steal Roger > Carbol's Bomb from Roger Carbol. I end my turn; the Lounge has 6 visits. You can't more the Baron there. Rule 87. From nomic02@wurb.com Thu Jun 19 22:41:55 2003 From: nomic02@wurb.com (Adam Biltcliffe) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:41:55 +0100 Subject: [Nomic02] [T] jw's turn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45035848.1056066115@cornelius> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Adam Biltcliffe wrote: > >> I move the Baron to the Lounge, fly to the Lounge (+6bp) and steal Roger >> Carbol's Bomb from Roger Carbol. I end my turn; the Lounge has 6 visits. > > You can't more the Baron there. Rule 87. Curses. I knew there was something wrong with my move, but I couldn't work out what. In that case it appears that I just moved to the Lounge and ended my turn. jw