From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Wed Aug 9 19:35:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25539 for nomic-outgoing; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-4.iastate.edu (pop-4.iastate.edu [129.186.1.64]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25527 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:31 -0500 Received: from uswest.net (ip65.laurel5.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.239.65]) by pop-4.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13260; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:26 -0500 From: Subject: Nomic: IT Scholarships for Teachers and Educators Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:37:21 Message-Id: <92.583882.772137@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Computer and IT Training Tuition Scholarships for Teachers and Educators Most teachers and educators want to improve their computer/IT skills. However, high cost of training and a busy schedule have held them back. Now, the National Education Foundation (NEF) CyberLearning, a non-profit organization, dedicated to bridging the "Digital Divide," offers the Nation's teachers and educators a unique opportunity. With the support of Microsoft and others, NEF CyberLearning is now able to offer full tuition scholarships, valued at $2,000, to the first 5,000 applicants, thus enabling them to take any or all of the 500+ Internet-based online Personal Computing and Computer Professional courses from anywhere at any time. The high-quality, user-friendly courses are either self-study or instructor-led. They cover all levels and almost all topics, including Computer Basics, Internet Basics, Web Design Basics, Networking Basics, Programming Basics, A+, Network+, MCSE, CNE, Microsoft Office, MOUS, WordPerfect, Lotus, Operating Systems, Windows, Windows 2000, Linux, Unix, Networking, WAN, LAN, Programming, Java, C++, Visual Basics, Internet, Web Design, Web Applications, Web Master, E-commerce, Databases, Oracle and Cisco. To sign up, just visit www.cyberlearning.org, click on "Free IT Training," complete the application and pay a nominal registration fee of $75 with an official/personal credit card. This $75 is the only cost, since the tuition is free for teachers and educators. Many schools and colleges reimburse the $75. A registrant receives immediate access to all 500+ online courses, an online library of the latest 1,000+ computer/information technology books, evaluations, instructor assistance, course-specific chat areas and round-the-clock technical support. Please forward this information to interested colleagues and others involved with education. To unsubscribe, please reply with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line. The non-profit National Education Foundation (NEF) CyberLearning has provided tuition-free IT training to thousands of students, teachers, government and non-profit employees and disadvantaged individuals. By training 100,000 teachers and educators, NEF plans to reach a million disadvantaged students. Starting this Fall, NEF plans to offer IT training to all disadvantaged students nationally. NEF has earned many distinctions including "The Ivy League of IT Training," "1995 Fairfax Human Rights Award," and " A Leader in Bridging the Digital Divide." "You are helping to empower America. I salute you for your ongoing commitment to creating a better America," --- President Clinton "This is an awesome opportunity. You are making a difference." --- Washingtonjobs.com "Microsoft is pleased to play a part ... NEF can make a positive difference in the lives of a great number of individuals." --- Microsoft " I just want to say thank you for myself & on behalf of the many people that benefit from your incredible benevolence." --- Lilia Nunez, a registrant and a Digital Divide program beneficiary "I have found the CyberLearning online courses to be extremely easy and useful. I liked pre-course self-assessment and IT books online and available 24/7. The course screens were interactive and made me feel as if I was in the application itself. The site looks and feels very professional. The list of courses is huge. It includes something for almost everyone. I find this to be a very worthy cause." --- Ken Horowitz, IT Training Coordinator From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Wed Aug 9 19:38:11 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25541 for nomic-outgoing; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-4.iastate.edu (pop-4.iastate.edu [129.186.1.64]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25532 for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:31 -0500 Received: from uswest.net (ip65.laurel5.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.239.65]) by pop-4.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13260; Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:33:26 -0500 From: Subject: Nomic: IT Scholarships for Teachers and Educators Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:37:21 Message-Id: <92.583882.772137@uswest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Computer and IT Training Tuition Scholarships for Teachers and Educators Most teachers and educators want to improve their computer/IT skills. However, high cost of training and a busy schedule have held them back. Now, the National Education Foundation (NEF) CyberLearning, a non-profit organization, dedicated to bridging the "Digital Divide," offers the Nation's teachers and educators a unique opportunity. With the support of Microsoft and others, NEF CyberLearning is now able to offer full tuition scholarships, valued at $2,000, to the first 5,000 applicants, thus enabling them to take any or all of the 500+ Internet-based online Personal Computing and Computer Professional courses from anywhere at any time. The high-quality, user-friendly courses are either self-study or instructor-led. They cover all levels and almost all topics, including Computer Basics, Internet Basics, Web Design Basics, Networking Basics, Programming Basics, A+, Network+, MCSE, CNE, Microsoft Office, MOUS, WordPerfect, Lotus, Operating Systems, Windows, Windows 2000, Linux, Unix, Networking, WAN, LAN, Programming, Java, C++, Visual Basics, Internet, Web Design, Web Applications, Web Master, E-commerce, Databases, Oracle and Cisco. To sign up, just visit www.cyberlearning.org, click on "Free IT Training," complete the application and pay a nominal registration fee of $75 with an official/personal credit card. This $75 is the only cost, since the tuition is free for teachers and educators. Many schools and colleges reimburse the $75. A registrant receives immediate access to all 500+ online courses, an online library of the latest 1,000+ computer/information technology books, evaluations, instructor assistance, course-specific chat areas and round-the-clock technical support. Please forward this information to interested colleagues and others involved with education. To unsubscribe, please reply with "unsubscribe" in the Subject line. The non-profit National Education Foundation (NEF) CyberLearning has provided tuition-free IT training to thousands of students, teachers, government and non-profit employees and disadvantaged individuals. By training 100,000 teachers and educators, NEF plans to reach a million disadvantaged students. Starting this Fall, NEF plans to offer IT training to all disadvantaged students nationally. NEF has earned many distinctions including "The Ivy League of IT Training," "1995 Fairfax Human Rights Award," and " A Leader in Bridging the Digital Divide." "You are helping to empower America. I salute you for your ongoing commitment to creating a better America," --- President Clinton "This is an awesome opportunity. You are making a difference." --- Washingtonjobs.com "Microsoft is pleased to play a part ... NEF can make a positive difference in the lives of a great number of individuals." --- Microsoft " I just want to say thank you for myself & on behalf of the many people that benefit from your incredible benevolence." --- Lilia Nunez, a registrant and a Digital Divide program beneficiary "I have found the CyberLearning online courses to be extremely easy and useful. I liked pre-course self-assessment and IT books online and available 24/7. The course screens were interactive and made me feel as if I was in the application itself. The site looks and feels very professional. The list of courses is huge. It includes something for almost everyone. I find this to be a very worthy cause." --- Ken Horowitz, IT Training Coordinator From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Mon Aug 14 21:05:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28790 for nomic-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-2.iastate.edu (pop-2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.62]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28787 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:09 -0500 Received: from pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.172]) by pop-2.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24751 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:09 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05862 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008150204.VAA05862@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Nomic: Inactivity Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:09 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Yo what up? -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Mon Aug 14 23:15:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA30041 for nomic-outgoing; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:08:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-5.iastate.edu (pop-5.iastate.edu [129.186.1.65]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30038 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:08:25 -0500 Received: from scylla.ellipsis.cx (hawthorn-153-2.stures.iastate.edu [129.186.153.2]) by pop-5.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA10392 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:08:25 -0500 Received: (qmail 1442 invoked by uid 500); 15 Aug 2000 04:08:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20000815040824.1440.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: Inactivity In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 Aug 2000 21:04:09 CDT." <200008150204.VAA05862@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> From: Joel Uckelman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:08:23 -0500 Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu > > Yo what up? Yeah, sorry. I got a little side-tracked, what with moving and all. Now that ye olde summer job is over, though, I'll be able to spend lots of quality time with the code. I should get everything working during the day tomorrow, assuming I get up before noon. [Actually, I think I'll set my alarm for 8 :-) ] That said, we need to fill in a few blanks in the draft ruleset, viz. the judiciary and rule precedence. From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Sun Aug 20 02:25:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA09781 for nomic-outgoing; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:19:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09778 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:19:03 -0500 Received: from scylla.ellipsis.cx (hawthorn-153-2.stures.iastate.edu [129.186.153.2]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA20093 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:19:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 2944 invoked by uid 500); 20 Aug 2000 07:18:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20000820071840.2942.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Nomic: what's left From: Joel Uckelman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 02:18:39 -0500 Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu What I have now for record-keeping works as far as I can tell, though it doesn't yet produce any of the non-essential stuff (e.g. indices and a Logical Ruleset). I intend to add these things as time allows. A rough sketch of what needs to be done before we can start: I need to load the rules into the SQL database, which I cannot do until the rules have numbers, which I cannot do until I know whether the rule numbers matter for precedence, which I won't know until we have precedence rules, which in part depend on how the judicial rules look--and the judicial rules aren't yet written. On an unrelated note, we also need a name, though I guess we could start without one. As for the matter of completing the initial ruleset: reading back through suggestions from the summer and thinking about what sorts of problems we faced with regard to dividing up responsibility for game duties gave me an idea. Every game action--that is, every action which affects the game state--needs to be recorded somehow. That involves work on someone's part. We could take advantage of that fact by construing every action as a command to some officeholder, player, or other game entity, to do something. For example: Josh makes a proposal. Under the proposed system, Josh's action of making a proposal would constitute an order to note that a proposal was made, directed at whomever is in charge of noting such actions--let's call this person the Notary. If the Notary fails to take action on Josh's proposal, he can request that the courts compel the Notary to do so. If the Notary persist in ignoring Josh, he has further legal recourse, and so on. In such a system, it remains impossible to violate the rules, as such--rather, the rules provide consequences for certain commissions and omissions. This would eliminate the weird problems we had before of sorting out events that occurred on their own, since all events would be tied to Orders. Does anyone else see this as a good thing? Let me know--if we want to do this, I'd like to know before I load the rules into the database, as that will unfortunately require some tedious text formatting that I have little choice but to do by hand (just this once, though). From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Sun Aug 20 09:35:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12632 for nomic-outgoing; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:30:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12629 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:30:26 -0500 Received: from mach1.wlu.ca (mach1.wlu.ca [192.54.242.17]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07405 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:30:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (wald7330@localhost) by mach1.wlu.ca (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e7KEUPH25731 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:30:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Waldron To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: what's left In-Reply-To: <20000820071840.2942.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu It's a good thing. Lets do it. DW On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Joel Uckelman wrote: > What I have now for record-keeping works as far as I can tell, though it > doesn't yet produce any of the non-essential stuff (e.g. indices and a > Logical Ruleset). I intend to add these things as time allows. > > A rough sketch of what needs to be done before we can start: > > I need to load the rules into the SQL database, which I cannot do until the > rules have numbers, which I cannot do until I know whether the rule numbers > matter for precedence, which I won't know until we have precedence rules, > which in part depend on how the judicial rules look--and the judicial rules > aren't yet written. > > On an unrelated note, we also need a name, though I guess we could start > without one. > > As for the matter of completing the initial ruleset: reading back through > suggestions from the summer and thinking about what sorts of problems we > faced with regard to dividing up responsibility for game duties gave me an > idea. Every game action--that is, every action which affects the game > state--needs to be recorded somehow. That involves work on someone's part. > We could take advantage of that fact by construing every action as a > command to some officeholder, player, or other game entity, to do > something. For example: > > Josh makes a proposal. Under the proposed system, Josh's action of making a > proposal would constitute an order to note that a proposal was made, > directed at whomever is in charge of noting such actions--let's call this > person the Notary. If the Notary fails to take action on Josh's proposal, > he can request that the courts compel the Notary to do so. If the Notary > persist in ignoring Josh, he has further legal recourse, and so on. > > In such a system, it remains impossible to violate the rules, as > such--rather, the rules provide consequences for certain commissions and > omissions. This would eliminate the weird problems we had before of sorting > out events that occurred on their own, since all events would be tied to > Orders. Does anyone else see this as a good thing? Let me know--if we want > to do this, I'd like to know before I load the rules into the database, as > that will unfortunately require some tedious text formatting that I have > little choice but to do by hand (just this once, though). > > > From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 03:05:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA11049 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:03:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11046 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:03:04 -0500 Received: from cs.utexas.edu (cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.9]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA11126 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:03:05 -0500 Received: from muenster.cs.utexas.edu (activist@muenster.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.120.131]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15121 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from activist@localhost) by muenster.cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22621; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:02:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:02:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Bradley To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Nomic: new name proposal In-Reply-To: <20000721035003.21734.qmail@dial-v90-2-67.ppp.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu How about Procrastinomic - You have received mail from Benjamin Bradley. C'est ne pas un e-mail. - http://lostpoet.tripod.com/ - whee life what a rush From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 16:15:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17484 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17476 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:26 -0500 Received: from cs.utexas.edu (cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.9]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08496 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:26 -0500 Received: from muenster.cs.utexas.edu (activist@muenster.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.120.131]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17443 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from activist@localhost) by muenster.cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23867; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Bradley To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Nomic: Qs about draft ruleset Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu what exactly does this clause cover? * Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the ruleset is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of rule changes, which are permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits them. and what sort of actions does this clause refer to? * Actions occur at the time they appear in the forum in which they are committed. No state changes may occur prior to the actions which caused them. - You have received mail from Benjamin Bradley. C'est ne pas un e-mail. - http://lostpoet.tripod.com/ - whee life what a rush From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 16:17:19 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17447 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-2.iastate.edu (pop-2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.62]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17443 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:21 -0500 Received: from cs.utexas.edu (cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.9]) by pop-2.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15292 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:21 -0500 Received: from muenster.cs.utexas.edu (activist@muenster.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.120.131]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16966 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from activist@localhost) by muenster.cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23864; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Bradley To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu I'd like to add the followwing: under [Players, Playerlike Entities] * A player is a playerlike entity capable of independent action. Each player must be exactly one real-world sentient being. No real-world sentient being may be more than one player. Each player must have a uniquely identifying name, which may be specified initially and changed only by the player emself. {{***}} Each player's uniquely identifying name must be composed solely of letters, numbers, punctuation, and spaces; must be finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more non-space characters than spaces. and * A new player is created whenever a Motion to Add is passed. A Motion to Add must include the prospective player's name. It may be made by any player at any time, and requires a two-thirds majority vote or unanimous consent. {{***}} On the first turn, the Administrator will create the initial players by publishing a list of their names in a public forum. under Rules I'd like to add: * Rule changes go into effect in the turn immediately following the turn they are voted on. - You have received mail from Benjamin Bradley. C'est ne pas un e-mail. - http://lostpoet.tripod.com/ - whee life what a rush From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 16:25:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17755 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-5.iastate.edu (pop-5.iastate.edu [129.186.1.65]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17747 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:07 -0500 Received: from pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.173]) by pop-5.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03645 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:08 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22488 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008292117.QAA22488@pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: Qs about draft ruleset In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:07:25 CDT." Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:07 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Benjamin Bradley sprach: >what exactly does this clause cover? > >* Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the ruleset is permitted >and unregulated, with the sole exception of rule changes, which are >permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly >permits them. This is the SUPER HAPPY FUN RULE. It's one of the things that makes the game fun; it helps determine what to do about things people say they do, or that they claim happen, and the rules are silent on the matter. Josh -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 16:26:33 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17781 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:18:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-2.iastate.edu (pop-2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.62]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17776 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:18:45 -0500 Received: from pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.173]) by pop-2.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19298 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:18:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA22832 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:18:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008292118.QAA22832@pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:20 CDT." Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:18:43 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Benjamin Bradley sprach: >I'd like to add the followwing: >under [Players, Playerlike Entities] >* A player is a playerlike entity capable of independent action. Each >player must be exactly one real-world sentient being. No real-world >sentient being may be more than one player. Each player must have a >uniquely identifying name, which may be specified initially and changed >only by the player emself. >{{***}} Each player's uniquely identifying name must >be composed solely of letters, numbers, punctuation, and spaces; must be >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more >non-space characters than spaces. Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 19:55:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22540 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-3.iastate.edu (pop-3.iastate.edu [129.186.1.63]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22537 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:36 -0500 Received: from cs.utexas.edu (cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.9]) by pop-3.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24285 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:36 -0500 Received: from muenster.cs.utexas.edu (activist@muenster.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.120.131]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02879 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from activist@localhost) by muenster.cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24309; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Bradley To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-Reply-To: <200008292118.QAA22832@pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu > >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more > >non-space characters than spaces. > > Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? It's really an arbitrary distinction. We could say that names must have at least one non-space character. In one nomic I looked at, a player's name was " " - a space. I think that could get very confusing. How do you catch a unique rabbit? unique up on him! How do you catch a tame rabbit? tame way, unique up on him! From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 20:01:20 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22585 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22582 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:22 -0500 Received: from cs.utexas.edu (cs.utexas.edu [128.83.139.9]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14523 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:22 -0500 Received: from muenster.cs.utexas.edu (activist@muenster.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.120.131]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04266 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from activist@localhost) by muenster.cs.utexas.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24346; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:21 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Bradley To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: Qs about draft ruleset In-Reply-To: <200008292117.QAA22488@pv3ead.vincent.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu > >* Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the ruleset is permitted > >and unregulated, with the sole exception of rule changes, which are > >permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly > >permits them. > > This is the SUPER HAPPY FUN RULE. It's one of the things that makes > the game fun; it helps determine what to do about things people > say they do, or that they claim happen, and the rules are silent > on the matter. this implies that moves other than rule-changes(or additions,etc) are allowed in the game. By the rules of strict nomic, the only move in the game is to propose a ruleset change. I think this is where our temporal problems stem from. Whenever new actions are allowed, rules must be defined which cover when they occur, what happens, who can initiate them, how long they last, etc. ? From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 21:35:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24981 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-1.iastate.edu (pop-1.iastate.edu [129.186.1.61]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24977 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:15 -0500 Received: from pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.172]) by pop-1.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28598 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00741 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008300231.VAA00741@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:35 CDT." Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:14 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Benjamin Bradley sprach: >> >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more >> >non-space characters than spaces. >> >> Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? > >It's really an arbitrary distinction. We could say that names must have at >least one non-space character. Why even bother? Who cares about the spaces in a person's name? J o s h -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 21:39:16 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25035 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:33:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-2.iastate.edu (pop-2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.62]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25032 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:33:46 -0500 Received: from pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.172]) by pop-2.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10469 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:33:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00989 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:33:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008300233.VAA00989@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: Qs about draft ruleset In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:48:21 CDT." Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:33:46 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Benjamin Bradley sprach: >> >* Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the ruleset is permitted >> >and unregulated, with the sole exception of rule changes, which are >> >permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly >> >permits them. >> >> This is the SUPER HAPPY FUN RULE. It's one of the things that makes >> the game fun; it helps determine what to do about things people >> say they do, or that they claim happen, and the rules are silent >> on the matter. > >this implies that moves other than rule-changes(or additions,etc) are >allowed in the game. By the rules of strict nomic, the only move in the >game is to propose a ruleset change. I think this is where our temporal What's "strict nomic"? http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm#initialset cf. 116. J o s h -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 23:35:01 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27544 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-4.iastate.edu (pop-4.iastate.edu [129.186.1.64]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27541 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:24 -0500 Received: from scylla.ellipsis.cx (hawthorn-153-2.stures.iastate.edu [129.186.153.2]) by pop-4.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA22167 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:24 -0500 Received: (qmail 2253 invoked by uid 500); 30 Aug 2000 04:34:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20000830043418.2251.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:45:35 CDT." From: Joel Uckelman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:18 -0500 Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu > > >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more > > >non-space characters than spaces. > > > > Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? > > It's really an arbitrary distinction. We could say that names must have at > least one non-space character. > > In one nomic I looked at, a player's name was " " - a space. I think that > could get very confusing. Would this be an acceptable compromise? "Names of game entities may contain alpha-numeric, punctuation, and whitespace characters only. Names must be at least one but no more than 255 characters in length." I think this allows for creative use of spaces and things as I'm sure Josh will avail himself, but still keeps things semi-sane since it imposes a maximum length and ensures that all names can be typed with everyone's keyboards. I can foresee a situation in which "foo bar" is directed to do something, but then protests that the whitespace in his name is a tab instead of a space, so that e wasn't really named. Possibly we'd want some sort of similarity test by which we can say "close enough" when handling names. That would be something to devise once we're playing, though. -- J. Uckelman uckelman@iastate.edu http://www.public.iastate.edu/~uckelman/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Tue Aug 29 23:55:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27929 for nomic-outgoing; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-2.iastate.edu (pop-2.iastate.edu [129.186.1.62]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27926 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:32 -0500 Received: from pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu [129.186.62.172]) by pop-2.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31120 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (kortbein@localhost) by pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00293 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200008300454.XAA00293@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:18 CDT." <20000830043418.2251.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:32 CDT From: Wbfu Xbegorva Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu Joel Uckelman sprach: >> > >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more >> > >non-space characters than spaces. >> > >> > Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? >> >> It's really an arbitrary distinction. We could say that names must have at >> least one non-space character. >> >> In one nomic I looked at, a player's name was " " - a space. I think that >> could get very confusing. > >Would this be an acceptable compromise? > >"Names of game entities may contain alpha-numeric, punctuation, and >whitespace characters only. Names must be at least one but no more than 255 >characters in length." > >I think this allows for creative use of spaces and things as I'm sure Josh >will avail himself, but still keeps things semi-sane since it imposes a >maximum length and ensures that all names can be typed with everyone's >keyboards. > >I can foresee a situation in which "foo bar" is directed to do something, >but then protests that the whitespace in his name is a tab instead of a >space, so that e wasn't really named. Possibly we'd want some sort of >similarity test by which we can say "close enough" when handling names. >That would be something to devise once we're playing, though. You know, if people wouldn't bring these things up then I would not be inclined to put them to the test. :) Josh -- josh blog: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/blog/ From owner-nomic@majordomo.iastate.edu Wed Aug 30 00:05:02 2000 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29249 for nomic-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:02:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: majordomo.iastate.edu: Processed from queue /var/spool/majordomo/nomic Received: from pop-4.iastate.edu (pop-4.iastate.edu [129.186.1.64]) by majordomo.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29246 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:02:34 -0500 Received: from scylla.ellipsis.cx (hawthorn-153-2.stures.iastate.edu [129.186.153.2]) by pop-4.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA28831 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:02:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 2330 invoked by uid 500); 30 Aug 2000 05:02:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20000830050229.2328.qmail@scylla.ellipsis.cx> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: nomic@iastate.edu Subject: Re: Nomic: draft ruleset suggestions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:54:32 CDT." <200008300454.XAA00293@pv3eac.vincent.iastate.edu> From: Joel Uckelman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:02:29 -0500 Sender: owner-nomic@iastate.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: nomic@iastate.edu > > Joel Uckelman sprach: > >> > >finite in length [[less than 50 characters?]] and must contain more > >> > >non-space characters than spaces. > >> > > >> > Yo, what if my real name is "I M Pei"? > >> > >> It's really an arbitrary distinction. We could say that names must have at > >> least one non-space character. > >> > >> In one nomic I looked at, a player's name was " " - a space. I think that > >> could get very confusing. > > > >Would this be an acceptable compromise? > > > >"Names of game entities may contain alpha-numeric, punctuation, and > >whitespace characters only. Names must be at least one but no more than 255 > >characters in length." > > > >I think this allows for creative use of spaces and things as I'm sure Josh > >will avail himself, but still keeps things semi-sane since it imposes a > >maximum length and ensures that all names can be typed with everyone's > >keyboards. > > > >I can foresee a situation in which "foo bar" is directed to do something, > >but then protests that the whitespace in his name is a tab instead of a > >space, so that e wasn't really named. Possibly we'd want some sort of > >similarity test by which we can say "close enough" when handling names. > >That would be something to devise once we're playing, though. > > You know, if people wouldn't bring these things up then I would > not be inclined to put them to the test. > > :) Actually, the reason I mentioned this at all is my interest in seeing someone try it. -- J. Uckelman uckelman@iastate.edu http://www.public.iastate.edu/~uckelman/