ackanomic Digest Monday, December 21 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 454 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:29:00 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: >> > When this rule is created, 4 active players should be randomly chosen >> > by the speaker. These 4 may change the rules or game state as an >> > organisational action. >> The four players are (in order of random selection) >> ThinMan >> JT >> Alfvaen >> else...if > >I am not sure, with the current state of the Rules(large chunks of the >Ruleset being whacked off with glee), but at some point it was illegal for >Non-Voting players to be chosen randomly for anything. But I can't >remember what "Active players" means at this point in time. Active Players are those that are Voting and Non-Voting. Only InActive players are forbidden from being chosen randomly. >If I was in fact legally selected, then I approve of the suggestion for >"55%", as well as the "Benevolent Diktat" one. Or "Bemused Diktat", >which is more appropriate in my case. I believe in all of our cases. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:29:34 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, K 2 wrote: >> As an organizational action, I suggest that we amend rule 106 (Voting On >> Proposals) by replacing 'is a majority' with is 'is three-fifths'. >> >> I, of course, approve this suggestion. >> >> --JT > >I boject to this as against the spirt of nomic. Your objection is noted and blithely ignored :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:31:53 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, John Bollinger wrote: >>>The four players are (in order of random selection) >>> ThinMan >>> JT >>> Alfvaen >>> else...if >> >> I suggest the we amend rule 23 by adding to the end "These 4 are >>collectively known as the Benevolent Diktat. Each is known individually as >>a Diktater." > >I approve. Since this has been approved by all four of the Benevolent Diktat, it occurs. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: A goof, fortunately reparable. Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:50:17 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 19 Dec, 1998 at 00:50, I wrote: >I look at the OC Share Your Income that I have in my hand, name >ThinMan and the amount of A$9801. As ThinMan pointed out to me privately, I didn't actually play this card, merely looked at it. (I note that K 2's go fish didn't occur since he specified he fished this play and this play never actually occur). O Olde Alpha's attempt also merely looked at his card rather than playing it. I have added these three cards back into the RuneMaker tallies. I now *play* the OC Share Your Income that I own, naming ThinMan and the amount A$9801 which is no more than half of the Valid Sum of A$19602. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:43:12 -0500 (EST) I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, DeeJay, Dungeon Master, Grey Councillor, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 713 (ThinMan) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 04:08:20 -0500 (EST) MTM has gone deadbeat. ThinMan has been selected Call for Judgment 713 - Dec 13, 1998 Subject: Vulcan Initiator: Trent (Sent Dec 13 1998, 5:51 Acka) 1st Judge: MTM 2nd Judge: ThinMan Judgement: Statement: There is currently a Rule 1 Reasoning: Go look up vulcan. The vulcan rule renumbered automatically to 1. Some BAD mojo has gone down. The "former emperor" rule, in pre-slakko form, is still here as rule 2, and vulcan still has power to modify the ruleset. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, DeeJay, Dungeon Master, Grey Councillor, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Acka: Otzma Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:20:54 -0500 (EST) I play my Otzma card Go Fish on the Otzma Card Share Your Income that JT played earlier today. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:22:46 -0500 (EST) >I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. You are harfing incorrectly. I am at Vulcan HQ, where I went since you took over responsabilities for harfing such things. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: Commission D'Arts (JT, Vynd, rSiE, Alfvaen, else...if) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:29:41 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > >The following members comprise the commission. > > > >President: JT > >Historian: Vynd > >Poet-Laureate: rSiE > >Random Player: Alfvaen > >Random Player: else...if > > > >These 5 players must produce a list of 4 nominees within 7 days of the > >date of the newest member joining (ie today). > > I hereby submit the proposed report from the Commission D' Arts. > It requires ratification as an organizational action. > > I suggest that the following SILVER delimited text be approved as the > report of the Commission D'Arts. > SILVER > The four nominees are as follows: > /dev/joe's Nose Description > rSiE's Rime of the Ancient Nanotech > Wild Card's Babylon 5-esque Wisdom > Trent's Xazij Treasure Map > SILVER I approve. Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu > > --JT > > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] > [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > > > ------------------------------ From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey) Subject: Re: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:40:30 -0500 (EST) >>I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. >You are harfing incorrectly. I am at Vulcan HQ, where I went since you >took over responsabilities for harfing such things. Yes, and I believe I was at the Tower of Bandwidth. -- --Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/) Song In My Head--Meryn Cadell:Bumblebee Current Book--Wild Cards:Marked Cards Ignore alien orders. ------------------------------ From: AARON KEESLER Subject: RE: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:34:15 -0500 (EST) I, once again, go to my level of the Monolith. >-----Original Message----- >From: Gabe Drummond-Cole [SMTP:blafard@uclink4.berkeley.edu] >Sent: Monday, December 21, 1998 2:43 AM >To: ackanomic@ackanomic.org >Subject: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak > >I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. > >-- >Trent > >Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring >Adventurer, DeeJay, Dungeon Master, Grey Councillor, Really Weird, >Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird > > ------------------------------ From: Alexandre Muniz Subject: Re: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:07:44 -0500 (EST) Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: > > >>I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. > > >You are harfing incorrectly. I am at Vulcan HQ, where I went since you > >took over responsabilities for harfing such things. > > Yes, and I believe I was at the Tower of Bandwidth. > And I, of course, am in the FM Building. As if anyone could forget. > -- > --Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/) > Song In My Head--Meryn Cadell:Bumblebee hehe. > Current Book--Wild Cards:Marked Cards > Ignore alien orders. ------------------------------ From: Eric Plumb Subject: Re: Acka: Eric's Punishment and a vacation Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:37:45 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > This is not a valid name as the " character is not a legal character for > Entity Names and therefore not for Player Names. > This name change did not occur. You would intervene in a matter of Honour? Or even Honor? I change my (Ackanomic) name to "Eric." Let the Registrar decide what is to be included and what not. -"Eric." ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Re: Acka: Commission D'Arts (JT, Vynd, rSiE, Alfvaen, else...if) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:40:22 -0500 (EST) >I suggest that the following SILVER delimited text be approved as the >report of the Commission D'Arts. >SILVER >The four nominees are as follows: > /dev/joe's Nose Description > rSiE's Rime of the Ancient Nanotech > Wild Card's Babylon 5-esque Wisdom > Trent's Xazij Treasure Map >SILVER I approve of this suggestion. O Olde Alpha ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Re: Acka: pragmatism is for the weak Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:40:26 -0500 (EST) >I am harfing all players other than Wild Card to be at their homes. > >-- >Trent I go to just outside Trent's house and tap the wall saying "You're it" and go to wherever I was before this message was sent. O Olde Alpha (eventually this will become Annoying) ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Eric's Punishment and a vacation Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:43:12 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Eric Plumb wrote: >> This is not a valid name as the " character is not a legal character for >> Entity Names and therefore not for Player Names. >> This name change did not occur. > >You would intervene in a matter of Honour? Or even Honor? Umm.. even Honour isn't above the rules. >I change my (Ackanomic) name to "Eric." Let the Registrar decide what is >to be included and what not. Well, I ack the name change to "Eric." (sans quotes since they aren't legal). --JT, Registrar [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: K 2 Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3939 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:57:43 -0500 (EST) I retract proposal 3939. K 2 jtraub@dragoncat.net wrote: > Proposal 3939 > Automatic Painting > K 2 > Due: Mon Dec 28 14:18:07 1998 > > I. Create a new rule as part of the Otzma Cards Rule Suite (rule 1240) > with the title "Otzma Card of type Automatic Painting" consisting of the > following AMSRWDWHTRT delimited text: > AMSRWDWHTRT > An Automatic Painting is an unframed piece of blank canvas - its rather > depressing to look at, having only a single feature of interest, a > rather handy brush someone has attached to it by means of a length of > stout chain. > > Needless to say the brush is magic, unfortunately it is also chronically > unimaginative. Automatic Paintings are always in one of two states, > inspired and uninspired. They are created in the uninspired state. When > a player other than the player who buried an uninspired Automatic > Painting finds the treasure containing it, it becomes inspired. > > An Otzma Card of this type can only be played in the public forum. When > it is played one of the following shall occur depending on its state: > > i) If it was in the inspired state when it was played the magic brush > will flash into action painting the card into a fascinating (though > perhaps offensively avant-garde) abstract painting. > > A random player is selected to publicly describe the masterpiece; when > she does so, the Automatic Painting sets its description to that > description. If she does not do so within 3 days of being selected the > Automatic Sculpture sets its description to "It is X." where X is one of > the colours defined in Rule 1155, chosen at random, or green if no such > colours exist. > > When the description of an active Automatic Sculpture is set, it > transforms itself into a trinket worth A$123, with the same description > the Sculpture had, and the name "Painting X" where X is replaced by the > least prime number that would result in a unique name. > > ii) If the card was in the uninspired state when it was played it shall > explode in a cloud of murrey smoke. > > Cards of this type have an F-designation of Rare. > AMSRWDWHTRT > > II. If the following DIRTYMONEY delimited text appears in Rule 429 > (Treasure-Harfer) replace it with the following PAYDIRT delimited text, > otherwise insert the PAYDIRT delimited text at the start of the last > paragraph in that rule. No text is actually delimited within this > paragraph. > > DIRTYMONEY > Instead of the normal salary for a Functional Officer, the > Treasure-Harfer shall receive an Automatic Sculpture every month. > DIRTYMONEY > > PAYDIRT > Instead of the normal salary for a Functional Officer, the > Treasure-Harfer shall receive an Automatic Painting Otzma Card every > month. > PAYDIRT > > III. Remove the following text from Rule 1270 (Puzzle Pieces): > " > and an Automatic Sculpture > " > and insert the following text after the first occurrence of "A$250" in > that rule: > " > and an Automatic Painting > " ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 713 (FALSE) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:32:54 -0500 (EST) ThinMan has ruled this FALSE Call for Judgment 713 - Dec 13, 1998 Subject: Vulcan Initiator: Trent (Sent Dec 13 1998, 5:51 Acka) 1st Judge: MTM 2nd Judge: ThinMan Judgement: FALSE Statement: There is currently a Rule 1 Reasoning: Go look up vulcan. The vulcan rule renumbered automatically to 1. Some BAD mojo has gone down. The "former emperor" rule, in pre-slakko form, is still here as rule 2, and vulcan still has power to modify the ruleset. Judge's Reasoning: It appears to me that Trent is correct insomuchas Vulcan action 108 shouldn't have worked as intended, because the rule establishing Vulcan's power would have renumbered itself back to 1 after being changed to 4. I state for the record that such a bollux was never Vulcan's intent. I assert, however, that this problem has long since been corrected by the pragmatism clause of rule 101: No rule may generate any effect that applies retroactively to a time before the generation of the effect, except when the illegality or impossibility of a publically knowable change to the game state goes unreported for at least 14 days, in which case the change is deemed to have occurred retroactively to the time of the attempt. The preceding does not apply to the case of events which occur automatically, but whose occurrence is not (or erroneously) reported. For this provision to be relevant, it is necessary to characterize one aspect or another of the events that we believed to have occured as a publicly knowable change to the game state. So what, exactly, constitutes the game state? It is defined only by custom. It includes all of the variables that define the, well, state of the game. Examples include almost everything tracked by the various harfers, from the existence and ownership of various entities to the proposals up for voting to the locations of all the players. It contains the history of the game. It, of course, contains all the past CFJ judgements, and some aspects of their reasonings. It contains, I claim, the ruleset. In a game wherein the rules are fixed, there would be no reason to consider the rules part of the game state. Even in party chess, for example, where the rules may change during the game, those rule changes are not part of game play. In Nomic, however, changing the rules is part of game play, therefore it is my opinion that in Nomic, in Ackanomic in particular, the rules are an aspect of the game state. In that context, then, what happened with regard to Vulcan action 108? Part (1) occurred as described. Part (2) worked, renumbering rule 1 to rule 4. Rule 4 then automatically renumbered itself to 1. Part (3) worked as specified. Part (4) worked, except that the number assigned to the new rule was "the least positive integer greater than all existing base rule numbers." (c.f. rule 303, but see below). Part (5) failed, as there was no rule 4 at the time. However, it was generally believed that part (4) worked exactly as specified and that part (5) succeed in repealing the rule that it was intended to repeal, and the game state was harfed accordingly. These are non-automatic changes to the rules (the direct results of an organizational action), and hence non-automatic changes to the game state, therefore they are covered by the pragmatism clause of rule 101. Two weeks, then, after Vulcan action 108 was performed, rule 101 caused two effects to occur retroactively: Vulcan's legacy rule received the number 1 despite there already being a rule 1, and the other rule 1 was repealed. The CFJ statement is thus false. Additional comments: it seems unlikely to me that the preceding argument has much applicability to the normal mode of rule modification (via proposal or rule). I would characterize the normal mode as being subject to the rule 101 exception for automatic actions. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, DeeJay, Dungeon Master, Grey Councillor, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Acka: Phoebe Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:23:12 -0500 (EST) Having just flown home from the exploding wreckage of the Death Star (and hence admiring my sparkling droids) I was surprised to hear a knock on my newly defined home's door. Putting on my most cheerful smile from the selection on the rack, I made my way to the door, fully expecting it to be Trent and a mob of Annoyed harfers with the tar, feathers, witch-burning equipment and soft cushions (you know, the ones with all the stuffing down one end). To my surprise and horror, it turned out to be a shiny steel flea. Now, I know what you're thinking, "*surprise* my second head, it's obviously Phoebe and well you know", but far from it, the flea before me was fifty cats high and harfy coloured. "You're not rule regulated," I squeaked, "get out of here." "Belt up shorty," it said, before tearing a hole in my home and wandering in. Raising one gigantic fist it proceeded to pound me into a lozenge shape and when it had finished, its harfy paint had come off on me leaving me much the same colour. "This is what you get..." "...when you mess with us?" I said (since I didn't know much They Might Be Giants). Unfortunately, this seemed to infuriate the creature and it pounded me some more. By the time it had finished, Ackans were passing by saying "look, a winning bag of puzzle pieces". "...when you fail to post Phoebe's wisdom." It finished. "Now listen I got something here to read." It pulled a tiny piece of paper about the size of a stamp from its waistcoat pocket and proceeded to read: "Dear O Olde Alpha, I'm sorry I can't come to your home right now, but if you'd like to leave a message after the wisdom I'll get back to you." As if to signify a beep the massive flea bashed me on the head. "My advice to you this time: Perform your officer's duties with diligence and harf or you shall be impeached! How long has it been since you were asked for a poem on breadbox? Hmm...?" "And I won't even mention the fact that it's been about two months since you..." "Don't even mention that!" I interrupted quickly lest it become a matter of public record. Unfortunately, the large robot seemed to enjoy interruptions about as much as it liked references to popular songs and well... If anyone finds any of my internal organs please mail them to
. O Olde Alpha ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Acka: Diktat Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:25:23 -0500 (EST) I approve of the suggestion that the Diktat change the voting clause to three fifths. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Acka: Breadbox Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:26:00 -0500 (EST) For breadbox (il miglior fabbro) I saw the best bread receptacles of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical harfy enshrined as an elder when their voice became silent who made bots do the work and became icy through tardiness who buried the feathers which dare not speak their name who were as redditive as it is in Ys who were tabulator, promoter, postmaster, judge at no extra cost who made furry animal puppets in the laboratories of Seattle who found messages from William Shatner on their answering machine who at last got the laureate to move off his ass and write Breadbox! Breadbox! Shining bright Midst the elders of the night What immortal yeast or dough Made bread, would into you go? Breadbox! I’m with you in Cowtown! (Or is that a crime?) I’m with you in Cowtown! May you return in time. O Olde Alpha (Poet Laureate) ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Re: Acka: Breadbox Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:26:15 -0500 (EST) Given the extreme lateness of this work, I'll not request any money from Fortunato (the original commissioner) nor will he legally owe me any as we did not at any time post an agreement. Be as redditive as it is in Ys. O Olde Alpha ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Phoebe (NY E NJ) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:30:57 -0500 (EST) NY E NJ has found Phoebe's Matchbox. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:32:39 -0500 (EST) >I am not sure, with the current state of the Rules(large chunks of the >Ruleset being whacked off with glee), but at some point it was illegal for >Non-Voting players to be chosen randomly for anything. But I can't >remember what "Active players" means at this point in time. > >If I was in fact legally selected, then I approve of the suggestion for >"55%", as well as the "Benevolent Diktat" one. Or "Bemused Diktat", >which is more appropriate in my case. If Alfvaen doesn't want to play at being fascist, I'd be willing to take his place. I mean I think I should get something for authoring p3912. A trinket then? A$5? That's cuttin me own throat... O Olde Stupid Alpha ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Potato (JT) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:33:58 -0500 (EST) JT has recieved the Potato. ThinMan has the Tuba. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "Gavin M. Doig" Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:52:10 -0500 (EST) >As an organizational action, I suggest that we amend rule 106 (Voting On >Proposals) by replacing 'is a majority' with is 'is three-fifths'. > Are you actually an organisation (or even an organization)? I don't see that you are. But then, I can't add 2 digit numbers correctly, so what do I know... sb. ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:57:22 -0500 (EST) >>As an organizational action, I suggest that we amend rule 106 (Voting On >>Proposals) by replacing 'is a majority' with is 'is three-fifths'. >> >Are you actually an organisation (or even an organization)? I don't see that >you are. But then, I can't add 2 digit numbers correctly, so what do I know... No. We are not an organization, however we can perform organizational actions. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3912 accepted Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:59:22 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Gavin M. Doig wrote: >>As an organizational action, I suggest that we amend rule 106 (Voting On >>Proposals) by replacing 'is a majority' with is 'is three-fifths'. >> >Are you actually an organisation (or even an organization)? I don't see that >you are. But then, I can't add 2 digit numbers correctly, so what do I know... Don't need to be. Rule 23 specifies that 'those 4 people' can do something as an organizational action, and has I believe sufficient precedence to do what it needs. This is analogous (though much looser language) to the language about granting spellbooks in rule 343, or the language in the contracts rule (rule 560). --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 714 (r-attila the firecat) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:17:14 -0500 (EST) r-attila the firecat has been selected Call for Judgment 714 - Dec 21, 1998 Subject: Diktat Initiator: Trent (Sent Dec 21 1998, 6:04 Acka) Judge: r-attila the firecat Judgement: Statement: Rule 23 has been modified at least once since it was instated Reasoning: I think this is false. Rule 23 says: 'These 4 may change the rules or game state as an organisational action.' Rule 1003 says: 'An organization can attempt actions. However, the process for an organization to attempt an action is somewhat more complex than the same process for players. First, some member of the organization sends a public message suggesting an action for the organization to take. The suggestion must include the name of the organization for which it is being suggested.' the 'organization' described by rule 23 had no name, no name was mentioned, and thus the attempt to suggest amendment failed. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, DeeJay, Dungeon Master, Grey Councillor, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #454 *******************************