ackanomic Digest Tuesday, December 15 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 448 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 712 (FALSE) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:55:22 -0500 (EST) r-attila the farce has ruled this false. It was erroneously reported as CFJ 711 when I distributed it. Call for Judgment 712 - Dec 9, 1998 Subject: Corporate Trades Initiator: ThinMan (sent Dec 9 1998, 16:40 Acka) Judge: r-attila the farce Judgement: FALSE Statement: Corporation OPM has fewer than -1000 Ackadollars. Reasoning: I believe the CFJ statement to be false. On Tuesday, Trent offered OPM the trinket "The Previous Sentence" in exchange for A$3000. At that time OPM had no ackadollars, I believe. Trent stated that he approved, and the other shareholders quickly followed suit. 1) I do not believe that any motion to accept the trade was actually made. If it was not made then it could not have been passed. 2) If such a motion were assumed to have been implicitly made and subsequently passed, it is not clear to me that that has the effect of causing OPM to attempt to perform the action of accepting the trade offer. In fact, I am inclined to believe that it does not. Rule 1003 certainly does not specify that the passage of a motion causes any additional effect whatsoever. 3) The rules regulate both the verb and the noun forms of "trade." In the noun sense, certain trades are legal and others are illegal. In the verb sense, certain entities are explicitly permitted to trade various other entities. Both political parties and Churches are explicitly empowered to make trades, but Corporations are not. I believe this means that Corporations may not offer or accept trades. 4) Rule 515 does not specify what happens when any entity other than a player accepts a trade. The game state may only change as specified by the rules, so even if OPM had legally accepted the trade, nothing would have happened. Except for the trade with Trent, nothing occured which could have caused OPM to go into debt, certainly not more than A$1000 in debt. The CFJ statement is therefore false. Judge's Reasoning: I dont know about the other stuff but there was no motion ever made just an offer. Normaly this wouldn't be a problem but rule 1003 list the specific types of motions that can be made. Since none of these were made and no votes were cast this can never have happend. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 707 (FALSE Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:56:32 -0500 (EST) r-attila the farce has ruled this FALSE Call for Judgement 707 - November 23, 1998 Subject: Caste Entry Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 23 1998, 13:40 Acka) 1st Judge: Thomas Jute (chosen Nov 25, 1998, 4:04 Acka) (deadbeat) 2nd Judge: r-attila the farce Judgement: FALSE Statement: Else...If has been a member of a caste since e last joined Ackanomic Reasoning: I don't know whether this is true or not. When does a player coming off ice join a caste? Immediately? When the determination is made? Judge's Reasoning: Else...If became a member of a caste when the random determination was made. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: Cutting off this Vulcan thing at the Pass Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:24:12 -0500 (EST) /dev/joe wrote: >I then suggest and approve that Vulcan make the following YEAH_WHATEVER action: > >YEAH_WHATEVER >In all game threads where Rule 1 exists and contains the text >"The organization Vulcan is empowered to, as an organizational action, >make any change whatsoever to the rules or game state." append to the >end of Rule 1 the following WHOOPS-delimited text: > >WHOOPS >This rule takes precedence over Rule 101. >{{ The paragraph of Rule 101 which contains the word "retroactively" has >square brackets placed around it so that it becomes a note.}} >{{ All aspects of the game state, including the rules and the history >of the game since September 5, 1997 are adjusted to the state they would >be in if the Vulcan action performed on that date had said > >"(2) In rule 1, change each occurrence of the number 1 to 4, then renumber >it to rule 4." > >in place of > >"(2) Change the rules by renumbering rule 1 to rule 4." >}} >{{ The square brackets around the paragraph in Rule 101 containing the word >"retroactively" are removed.}} >WHOOPS >YEAH_WHATEVER I believe I am proxied, but I approve anyway. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: Cutting off this Vulcan thing at the Pass Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:09:17 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, John Bollinger wrote: > > /dev/joe wrote: > > >I then suggest and approve that Vulcan make the following YEAH_WHATEVER action: > > > >YEAH_WHATEVER > >In all game threads where Rule 1 exists and contains the text > >"The organization Vulcan is empowered to, as an organizational action, > >make any change whatsoever to the rules or game state." append to the > >end of Rule 1 the following WHOOPS-delimited text: > > > >WHOOPS > >This rule takes precedence over Rule 101. > >{{ The paragraph of Rule 101 which contains the word "retroactively" has > >square brackets placed around it so that it becomes a note.}} > >{{ All aspects of the game state, including the rules and the history > >of the game since September 5, 1997 are adjusted to the state they would > >be in if the Vulcan action performed on that date had said > > > >"(2) In rule 1, change each occurrence of the number 1 to 4, then renumber > >it to rule 4." > > > >in place of > > > >"(2) Change the rules by renumbering rule 1 to rule 4." > >}} > >{{ The square brackets around the paragraph in Rule 101 containing the word > >"retroactively" are removed.}} > >WHOOPS > >YEAH_WHATEVER > > I believe I am proxied, but I approve anyway. > > > ThinMan > > I denou... Ah to heck with it, I approve this action. Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3902 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:25:22 -0500 (EST) else..if wrote: > The problem is that Corporations get nothing by inheriting from >orgs except complexity. Every feature is overriden. They should be >siblings, not parent and child. I realize that this is needed in the short >term, and it looks quite thorough in terms of that. However we can't look >at this as a solution. It's a patch, until someone can find the time to >fix the whole system. Assuming that my "patch" is implemented, the following will be true: Corporations inherit almost all of their method of formation from Orgs. They inherit a framework for disbandment from Orgs. They inherit entityhood and namedness from Orgs. They inherit from Orgs a bunch of references in other rules. About the only thing that Corps _don't_ inherit from Orgs is their method for taking actions. (If you want to get technical, though, Corps even inherit Organizational Actions, they just can't use them.) Corps have specifics that supplement generic Orgs, as do every other type of Org; these make the specific types of Orgs different _from_each_other_, but not less Org-like. I think it a bit unfair to claim that Corporations inherit complexity from Orgs, as what they originally did was essentially to assimilate the greatest part of the Organizations rule anyway. What Corps assimilated has largely been lifted back out into rule 1001. Among other things, this permits us to not duplicate those provisions (e.g., for joining political parties and Cults). I don't see that it adds any complexity to Corps, at least not in the functional sense. That the Corp rule does not shrink much reflects the fact that I incorporated the Shares rule into the Corp rule, as well as adding somewhat more detailed language in some places. I am not so vain as to think that mine must be the last word on this matter, or that my solution is necessarilly the best one. I don't agree, however, that mine is an interim solution only suitable until the system receives an overhaul. It is designed to provide a general, flexible framework within which to establish player-like entities (i.e. entities that can own other entities and perform actions), and my rather biased opinion is that it does a good job of it. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: Cycle 32 ended Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:45:58 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from > the time of this message. I accompany the Fat Lady, and appologise for the deplorability of my "verse" - devoid of a bad pun - 'cos I couldn't think of one - sorry. So, a cycle's ended; Trent is now a champion. Once again our scores Are zero. Come and watch, Everyone start scheming. Oh, how can I get a win, Oh, how can I get a win, Oh, how can I get a win, Except by points? -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3902 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:06:36 -0500 (EST) >Corporations inherit almost all of their method of formation from Orgs. They >inherit a framework for disbandment from Orgs. They inherit entityhood and No, it overrides Org disbandment, since there are no members. >namedness from Orgs. They inherit from Orgs a bunch of references in other >rules. About the only thing that Corps _don't_ inherit from Orgs is their It's inappropriate to inherit something for references. They should both be referenced by a superclass. >method for taking actions. (If you want to get technical, though, Corps >even inherit Organizational Actions, they just can't use them.) Corps That's the problem. They inherit Org Actions, which opens up potential loopholes. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:09:59 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed # yesterday. # This is the test for Dec 14th, which I missed. # 1 - 10 The bidding closed # 11 - 100 The bidding continues No. of sides on every die: 100 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 96 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Tue Dec 15 16:09:26 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id QAA28098 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:09:26 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma028094; Tue Dec 15 13:09:24 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA18134 > for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:09:28 -0800 > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:09:26 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Bridge Building (fwd) > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #S 100 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination > > #C This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed > #C yesterday. > #C > #C This is the test for Dec 14th, which I missed. > #C > #C 1 - 10 The bidding closed > #C 11 - 100 The bidding continues > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNnbQGD8NitsTFjcVAQERrQQAgNWhmAmIJGL1Q4JdHNZLdZoTOyLuKpzu cxLBX8CnmmZQvd50S51JHN2JWnMe4LdIDSQK7N5D8YvE6RKXCRMUd57GObiWNxY0 AaC8I7w/+ZkXzVN1tUPC9QAVu7Is/MNNHi2xyKHsLEs5U3cAOYtOPFdoe363s23p jFMqymqCHEs= =gg3D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:10:16 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed # yesterday. # This is the test for Dec 15th # 1 - 10 The bidding closed # 11 - 100 The bidding continues No. of sides on every die: 100 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 76 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Tue Dec 15 22:10:06 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id WAA13268 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:10:06 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma013058; Tue Dec 15 19:09:55 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA19256 > for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:10:09 -0800 > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:10:09 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Bridge Building > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #S 100 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination > > #C This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed > #C yesterday. > #C > #C This is the test for Dec 15th > #C > #C 1 - 10 The bidding closed > #C 11 - 100 The bidding continues > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNnckkj8NitsTFjcVAQG/LwP8COyPuLru45jiM3z5C9wHwEODDXeCPBmT g3D5kj/7sOWP7Q56gUXx0drjkvSuK+xmGJAb1La6tFYRVuk3UdB9Xs4FkWHo+fRR JwVcKfL7q48RMgbDtN7N0SXk8rFFzK1jgQqiYoS6Ix6/T3Virf/scOJEskEiXeOy RKYg7QehCg0= =Vr3J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #448 *******************************