ackanomic Digest Sunday, December 13 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 445 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: Vacationing Justice (Vynd) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:49:31 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > Jenny has gone on vacation. Vynd has been chosen as substitute during this > absence. /dev/cortex is not currently considering any appeals. > -- > Trent Huzah! Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 711 (TRUE) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:46:12 -0500 (EST) r-attila the farce has judged this TRUE Call for Judgment 711 - Dec 9, 1998 Subject: Acronym References Initiator: JT (sent Dec 9 1998, 12:22 Acka) Judge: r-attila the farce Judgement: TRUE Statement: JT and Trent are members of the Justified Ancients of Mummu. Reasoning: On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:37:49 -0500 (EST), two-star stated: I admit Trent and JT into JAM. The use of JAM in this context was perfectly understandable to mean 'The Cult of the Justified Ancients of Mummu', and in fact we have a fair amount of game custom (through use) that acronyms for organizations are in fact valid referents to that organization. Since JAM was an unambiguous reference, and since two-star was the Priviledged Player, and the acceptance policy of Justified Ancients of Mummu was Priviledged Single Player, the acceptance happened. Judge's Reasoning: The Intiators logic is flawless -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 697 (TRUE) (overturned) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:31:21 -0500 (EST) Amicus Draconis has ruled this true and fined the initial judge 10 points. Call for Judgement 697 - November 17, 1998 Subject: Beavis Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 17 1998, 02:50 Acka) 1st Judge: Danek (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka) (deadbeat) 2nd Judge: rufus (chosen Dec 04 1998, 05:20 Acka) (deadbeat) 3rd Judge: Wild Card (chosen Dec 12 1998, 4:52 Acka) Judgement: INVALID Appealed by: Trent Cortex: Amicus Draconis Judgement: TRUE Statement: Pol Pot is a butthead Reasoning: None Judge's Reasoning: "butthead" is not defined in the rules. Appellant's Reasoning: The Judge's reasoning seems to support a TRUE verdict rather than an INVALID. Rule 101 says: Actions described in the rules may only be performed, and shall only have those effects,as specified by the rules. Whatever is not explicitly prohibited or regulated by the rules, however, is permitted and unregulated. Being a butthead is NOT regulated. And on 11/16/98, Pol Pot posted the following message to a valid list: >I declare myself to be a butthead. > >I don't think this is regulated, which would make it permissible > >someone correct me if I'm wrong. > >--Pol Pot > Which would make Pol Pot a butthead Cortex's Reasoning: By rule 215, all judgements must be in accord with the rules in effect. Since there is no rule defining who is or is not a butthead, we must rely on the overarching authority of rule 101 which permits any unregulated action. Since being a butthead is unregulated, Trents declaration of himself to be a butthead was certainly legal under rule 101. A good parallel is CFJ 535. That was judged false because there was no evidence that Guy Fawkes had given himself or that someone else had given to Guy Fawkes the status of butthead. In this case, Trent (under his former name) had given this status to himself publically. Since that was done publically, it occured under the auspices of rule 101. Therefore this CFJ should have been judged TRUE. Thus we now overturn the judgement to TRUE and fine the original judge 10 points for not doing his homework. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: Prop 3909 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:19:33 -0500 (EST) I pay A$150 to the treasury to declare prop 3909 guarded. If Acka wants hats back, let Ackans want hats back, not eir bonus votes. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 713 (MTM) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 05:56:35 -0500 (EST) MTM has been selected Call for Judgment 713 - Dec 13, 1998 Subject: Vulcan Initiator: Trent (Sent Dec 13 1998, 5:51 Acka) Judge: MTM Judgement: Statement: There is currently a Rule 1 Reasoning: Go look up vulcan. The vulcan rule renumbered automatically to 1. Some BAD mojo has gone down. The "former emperor" rule, in pre-slakko form, is still here as rule 2, and vulcan still has power to modify the ruleset. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFCJ 178 (TRUE) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:01:43 -0500 (EST) r-attila the farce has judged this TRUE and fined Studge A$50 Call for Criminal Judgment 178 - Dec 7, 1998 Subject: Count Tabula non-performance Initiator: Trent (sent Dec 7 1998, 12:47 Acka) 1st Judge: Euphrates (declined) 2nd Judge: r-attila the farce Judgement: TRUE Statement: Studge Committed the Crime of Non-Performance on Dec 5 Reasoning: E also committed the crime on the 4th and the 8th. I called for an election for the empty grey council seat on Dec 1. Count Tabula called it INCORRECTLY for a religious seat instead of a Worker Seat. Even if it had been called correctly, the nomination period would have ended on the fourth, and nominees should have been released for voting consideration on the 7th, two days ago. I called for an election for deejay on Dec 5. Count Tabula failed to respond within 3 days. In the duel between MTM and Jenny, both limericks were posted on Nov 29. There followed a 3 day voting period. The duel should have ended on the 2nd. Count Tabula has failed to do eir duty for 3 days in this instance. Suggested Penalty: a A$25 Fine payable to the treasury Impeachment of Studge from the office of Count Tabula Judge's Reasoning: Initiator is right. Actual Penalty: A$50 fine payable to the treasury. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 713 (MTM) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:36:24 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >MTM has been selected > >Call for Judgment 713 - Dec 13, 1998 >Subject: Vulcan >Initiator: Trent (Sent Dec 13 1998, 5:51 Acka) >Judge: MTM >Judgement: > > >Statement: >There is currently a Rule 1 > >Reasoning: >Go look up vulcan. The vulcan rule renumbered automatically to 1. Some >BAD mojo has gone down. The "former emperor" rule, in pre-slakko form, is >still here as rule 2, and vulcan still has power to modify the ruleset. I add the following Bronze Torch Reasoning delimited by PRAGMATISM to this CFJ. PRAGMATISM Rule 101 (at least it's still rule 101 today :) states: No rule may generate any effect that applies retroactively to a time before the generation of the effect, except when the illegality or impossibility of a publically knowable change to the game state goes unreported for at least 14 days, in which case the change is deemed to have occurred retroactively to the time of the attempt. The preceding does not apply to the case of events which occur automatically, but whose occurrence is not (or erroneously) reported. Even if Trent is correct and the changes to move the Vulcan rule away from rule #1 failed, there still exists no such rule today due to pragmatism. A rule change or renumbering is not an automatic occurence and so isn't exempted by the last sentance of the preceeding paragraph. Since the alleged Rule 1 has been percieved to not exist for much longer than 14 days, the first part of this paragraph kicks in and thus rule 1 doesn't exist and in fact the renumbering and reordering to make it into rule 1150 occured. Therefore this CFJ should be judged False. PRAGMATISM [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 713 (MTM) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:44:46 -0500 (EST) >Even if Trent is correct and the changes to move the Vulcan rule away from >rule #1 failed, there still exists no such rule today due to pragmatism. >A rule change or renumbering is not an automatic occurence says who? Whose job is it to track these 'nonautomatic' renumberings? The Rule-Harfer? Whose job is to maintain the Official Rules Document, which "is not the Rules. Modification of the Official Rules Document does not affect the rules."? Is that what we're talking about? Explain to me how a self-modification like the silly phrase or the magic number can be considered anything BUT automatic. >and so isn't >exempted by the last sentance of the preceeding paragraph. Since the >alleged Rule 1 has been percieved to not exist for much longer than 14 >days, the first part of this paragraph kicks in and thus rule 1 doesn't >exist and in fact the renumbering and reordering to make it into rule 1150 >occured. > >Therefore this CFJ should be judged False. >PRAGMATISM > >[-------------------------------------------------------------------------] >[ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] >[ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] >[-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3891 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:07:41 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > > > >3 and even 4 baa votes in such turnouts are not uncommon. > >This means exactly what I thought it means. I get the point. I don't like > >it one bit. > > > > that's true right now, Nicollo, when baa is the vote of an abstainer who > doesn't want to abstain. The whole point of the proposal would be to > change BAA! to a vote for the prop instead of a neutral vote. That's what Yes is for. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3891 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:11:09 -0500 (EST) > >That's what Yes is for. > Well, I obviously didnt think so, but I also bowed to the pressure of Acka and retracted it. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3902 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 07:14:22 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Towsner wrote: > > >Rather than adding a lot of complex precedence language, I suggest simply > >adding a statement that says "a corporation has itself as its sole > >member"- but that's not necessarily the best solution. > That certainly works for this. But what if, (hypothetical > situation), someone someday decides to make quasi-open the default > admissions type, and it passes (that doesn't seem to unreasonable). What > if they don't think about Corporations, and another player requests > membership in the Corporation, which the Corporation does not object to, so > the player is granted membership. Now that player can try to manipulate > the Corporation like an Organization, without really being stopped. No. Because Corporations (ThinMan style) have explicit rules governing how actions are performed, they override the default methods, and members of Corporations are unable to manipulate them like other orgs. Furthermore, the default membership policy does not over ride the specifiation that Corporations have no members, nor would it be able to over ride a specificatin like the one above. This does not break Corporations. Niccolo Flychuck > > >Other than that one problem, I think ThinMan's rewrite retains the > >uniqueness of Corporations, and the integrity of the organizationl > >structure. > This has nothing to do with the uniqueness of the structure, I > agree that the structure is unaffected. This is simply poor design. In > C++ terminology, this is like using classes instead of templates. You can > do it, and it will work at first, but in the long run it's less work to do > it right, and change the other rules. > > -- > -Henry Towsner > > > > Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and > enjoy it. > -Logan Pearsall Smith > > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3902 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 09:40:14 -0500 (EST) >No. Because Corporations (ThinMan style) have explicit rules governing how >actions are performed, they override the default methods, and members of >Corporations are unable to manipulate them like other orgs. >Furthermore, the default membership policy does not over ride the >specifiation that Corporations have no members, nor would it be able to >over ride a specificatin like the one above. This does not break >Corporations. Corporations define their own, but I don't think Corporations ever disallow Org style actions. I may be missing something though, and that isn't really the point. Whether or not this would break Corporations, it destabilizes them, since a well intentioned amendment to Orgs could easily affect Corps in an undesired way. This is, above all, bad design. I agree that the problem needs to be fixed, and I can even accept this as a tempory fix (I will vote FOR this proposal), but eventually we need a legitimate fix which doesn't take shortcuts. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" Subject: Acka: Cutting off this Vulcan thing at the Pass Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:47:04 -0500 (EST) {{[ I don't know if the records on breadbox's site are entirely correct or not, but if they are, Trent may be correct about his recent CFJ. JT may be right that pragmatism has kicked in and junked the rule, but in case he's not, ...]}} I suggest and approve that Vulcan make the following BAD_TRENT action: BAD_TRENT In all game threads where Rule 1 exists and contains the text "The organization Vulcan is empowered to, as an organizational action, make any change whatsoever to the rules or game state." append to the end of Rule 1 the following WHOOPS-delimited text: WHOOPS This rule takes precedence over Rule 101. {{ The paragraph of Rule 101 which contains the word "retroactively" has square brackets placed around it so that it becomes a note.}} {{ All aspects of the game state, including the rules and the history of the game since September 5, 1997 are adjusted to the state they would be in if the Vulcan action performed on that date had said "(2) In rule 1, change each occurrence of the number 1 to 4, then renumber it to rule 4." in place of "(2) Change the rules by renumbering rule 1 to rule 4." }} {{ The square brackets around the paragraph in Rule 101 containing the word "retroactively" are removed.}} WHOOPS BAD_TRENT ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: Cutting off this Vulcan thing at the Pass Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:01:57 -0500 (EST) >I suggest and approve that Vulcan make the following BAD_TRENT action: BAD TRENT? I didn't even try to scam it! You guys should have given me a reward for noticing such a large hole. Like I don't know, a boon or something. I mean, really... -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Mueller Subject: Acka: Grey Seat Voting Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:22:32 -0500 (EST) Its time for voting on the worker grey council seat. The nominees are: Trent rSiE Reply with your vote. Studge ------------------------------ From: Mueller Subject: Acka: DJ Voting Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:22:41 -0500 (EST) Let the votes on DeeJay pour forth! The nominees are: Trent JT Reply with your vote. Studge ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 713 (MTM) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:03:33 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>Even if Trent is correct and the changes to move the Vulcan rule away from >>rule #1 failed, there still exists no such rule today due to pragmatism. >>A rule change or renumbering is not an automatic occurence > >says who? Whose job is it to track these 'nonautomatic' renumberings? The >Rule-Harfer? Whose job is to maintain the Official Rules Document, which The changes that made the changes to the game state necessary to move the alleged rule number 1 were all public, either vulcan actions or proposals that were accepted. Thus those actions which were possibly illegal were publically knowable to be so for longer than 14 days and therefore became legal. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Harfiness abounds Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:22:12 -0500 (EST) #harfy 3903 #harfy 3912 #end Having surveyed the upcoming proposals, I have come to the following conclusion. Proposals 3903 and 3912 are harfy. I do not find anyone who is funky and stylish at this time.. impress me :) --JT, Harfmeister [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Will of the people? (fwd) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:41:25 -0500 (EST) With the passage of proposal 3870, a Will of the People hearing was called as mandated by the rules. This hearing will end on Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:13:33 -0500. This is a serious hearing, so Ballot Stuffers will get broken if they are used. The question under consideration is Should the mailing list software automatically add 'Acka:' to the subject lines for the Ackanomic mailing lists? The valid responses are "Hey Man, I'm an Induhvidual" (yes the software should) "I cannot wait to catch up to the Jones'". (no the software shouldn't) Please reply to this message to register your vote. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Cycle 31 ends Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:53:02 -0500 (EST) At 15:40:44 Acka time this afternoon, Cycle 31 ended. At this time, the following things happened in order. a) Ackanomic play is suspended b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit and Agenda Hats that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are destroyed. I will let Financier K 2 handle the Goose Eggs and Grapefruit. Quite a few series G Hats and Eggplants were destroyed. They are All of Series G except for G2, G6, and G14. c) The winner is given the title of winner of the cycle, and a Right-Handed Grapefruit and a Champion's Cloak are created in that player's possession. If this results in his having two Champion's Cloaks, one of them is instantly transformed into a Badge of Glory. K 2 is given the title of winner of the cycle and a RHG. He is given a Champion's Cloak which immediate becomes a Badge of Glory. d) All players who have zero or fewer points are given a Chartreuse Goose Egg. I will let Scorekeeper K 2 provide this information. e) If the amount of A$s in circulation plus the value of all extant Trinkets exceeded the amount in the Treasury at the time this winner was declared, the following shall occur: i) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero shall transfer 10% of eir Total Wealth to the Treasury. ii) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero and all players with a Total Wealth of zero or less, shall be placed on The List in decreasing order of Total Wealth. If there is a tie for Total Wealth, the Financier shall make the random determination necessary to order the entities on the list. iii) A random entity appearing in the first half of The List, shall transfer 5% of eir total wealth to the active player lowest on The List and both entities shall be removed from The List. iv) If there are at least two entities still on The List, one of which is a player and the other of which has postive wealth, the go to step iii. I will let Financier K 2 accomplish this task and report the results. f) Each Player is awarded A$ equal to his point total. Scorekeeper K 2 should post the final scores shortly :) g) Each player's score is set to zero. Need I keep saying how easy this is :) h) If the cycle currently ending has exceeded 30 days in length, all players who have been vacationing for the entire cycle are removed from the game as if they have quit. The cycle was less than 30 days in length. i) If the cycle was won by points (i.e. the Winning Condition was due to Rule 603), then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*1.2). If the last two cycles were not won by points, then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*0.9). Neither of the previous two cycles were won by points. The base value of the Magic Number is set to 257. j) The game cycle number is incremented, and the Magic Number is reset to its base value. Welcome to cycle 32. The Magic Number is reset to 257. k) All players who are in Gaol are released from Gaol. All players who are in the Ackanomic Afterlife are relocated to their homes. I don't believe anyone was in either place. l) If the game state is such that the single winner of the last cycle would immediately win again upon the resumption of Ackanomic play, the Chartreuse Goose is transferred to that player. This is not the case. m) All events specified by other rules to occur at the end of the cycle occur, in the numeric order of the rule that defines the event. By rule 540, K 2 gains 1 point of 'Order'. By rule 550.1, K 2 gains 2 honour. n) Ackanomic play resumes. The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from the time of this message. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey) Subject: Re: Acka: Cycle 31 ends Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:08:57 -0500 (EST) >b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit and Agenda Hats > that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the > same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are > destroyed. > > I will let Financier K 2 handle the Goose Eggs and Grapefruit. > Quite a few series G Hats and Eggplants were destroyed. > They are > All of Series G except for G2, G6, and G14. Are you sure about the Hats? It's entirely likely that no Rule defines them as Garments, so can they be worn at all? >The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from >the time of this message. Accompanying myself on the Tuba, I hereby give forth with the following lyric: And so another cycle ends While I still have the Tuba I'll tell you this, my Ackan friends, I'd rather be in Cuba Than harfing all this stuff Like when I was the Speaker I know this verse is rough-- Could it be much weaker? Well, if you're a poor sport, Bean me with a beaker Or let loose with some sort Of vile retort. -- --Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/) Current Album--Chess Soundtrack Current Book--Daniel Keys Moran:The Long Run How do I know anything really exists? Kick it *really* hard. ------------------------------ From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey) Subject: Acka: Next Step Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:10:15 -0500 (EST) I resign as Justice. I change my state to Non-Voting. -- --Alfvaen(Web page:http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/) Current Album--Chess Soundtrack Current Book--Daniel Keys Moran:The Long Run I'd rather read the cereal box or eat the book with milk. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Cycle 31 ends Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:22:33 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: >> I will let Financier K 2 handle the Goose Eggs and Grapefruit. >> Quite a few series G Hats and Eggplants were destroyed. >> They are >> All of Series G except for G2, G6, and G14. > >Are you sure about the Hats? It's entirely likely that no Rule defines them >as Garments, so can they be worn at all? Not wholly. Having just checked the Garments rules, they contain the text "Only those entities explicitly designated by the rules as Garments are Garments." So I agree that the now undefined Agenda Hats are no longer garments. The garments rule does not however (in my opinion) remove objects that were garments when worn but have lost that status. >>The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from >>the time of this message. > > > >Accompanying myself on the Tuba, I hereby give forth with the following >lyric: > >And so another cycle ends >While I still have the Tuba >I'll tell you this, my Ackan friends, >I'd rather be in Cuba > >Than harfing all this stuff >Like when I was the Speaker >I know this verse is rough-- >Could it be much weaker? > >Well, if you're a poor sport, >Bean me with a beaker >Or let loose with some sort >Of vile retort. Oh Fat Lady who keeps on singing Please stop, as my ears are now ringing You've now sung your song with Alfvaen along and the house to it's knees you are bringing. --JT, attempting to save the Lady's voice for monday :) [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Next Step Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:25:09 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: >I resign as Justice. >I change my state to Non-Voting. I hope this is just a temporary thing, and that you will find the time to be more active again in the future. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: Will of the people? (fwd) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:56:24 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > The valid responses are > "Hey Man, I'm an Induhvidual" (yes the software should) > "I cannot wait to catch up to the Jones'". (no the software shouldn't) Erm, that's backwards... Isn't it? -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Will of the people? (fwd) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:02:08 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > >> The valid responses are >> "Hey Man, I'm an Induhvidual" (yes the software should) >> "I cannot wait to catch up to the Jones'". (no the software shouldn't) > > Erm, that's backwards... > > Isn't it? Yes it is.. if anyone wishes to correct their votes, please email me the correction.. My goof :) Induhvidual is you don't agree with the question/think it shouldn't occur Jones' means you want to see it occur/agree with the majority. Culpa Mea for not even remembering my own rule :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:46:28 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed # yesterday. # 1 - 10 The bidding closed # 11 - 100 The bidding continues No. of sides on every die: 100 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 42 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Sun Dec 13 21:46:15 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id VAA08202 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:46:15 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma008156; Sun Dec 13 18:46:04 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09751 > for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:46:18 -0800 > Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 18:46:18 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Bridge Building (fwd) > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #S 100 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Bridge Bid Closing determination > > #C This is the determination if bidding on logs and stones closed > #C yesterday. > #C > #C 1 - 10 The bidding closed > #C 11 - 100 The bidding continues > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNnR7/D8NitsTFjcVAQHNmwP/aAcu9241XZuQeBkL2AHE/c+VK5nGLP9f YA7HiDszxnRl1ewJryGjoVE2cHZg53G+/rMGFnHl+UFvQETHYte0eMbzGShoYA40 l7YLyy6g5QnHpUQmH/6JrpIoXhosO0VTxxm1HVvojUJD02t1YlbRFwm15cLfGSEa RrIJuYOkWXk= =XqBj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 706 (FALSE) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:25:28 -0500 (EST) ThinMan has ruled this FALSE Call for Judgement 706 - November 23, 1998 Subject: Church Policy PWCFJ Take 2 Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 23 1998, 05:31 Acka) 1st Judge: Thomas Jute (chosen Nov 24 1998, 04:27 Acka) (deadbeat) 2nd Judge: rufus (chosen Dec 04 1998, 5:20 Acka) (deadbeat) 3rd Judge: ThinMan Judgement: FALSE Statement: The legality of Pol Pot's donation of Alice in Wonderland to They Might Be About to Win a Cycle cannot be determined with finality. Reasoning: this is a paradox win CFJ Rule 1301 says: c. A Player who disobeys the Church Policy of a Church of which he or she is a member is guilty of Iconoclasm, which is a Crime. It is impermissible for a Player to take a game action which constitutes Iconoclasm if he or she has any legal alternative which would not constitute Iconoclasm. [That is, Iconoclasm normally doesn't happen unless there is no alternative. It is possible for a player to commit Iconoclasm by inaction, though.] Because the Church Policy is continually flipping back and forth between requiring and not allowing its members to donate such trinkets to the Church, it is impossible to determine with finality which state the game was in when I attempted to donate the trinket. Judge's Reasoning: The court agrees with the submitter that it impossible to determine what the Church Policy was when he attempted to donate the trinket. However, this is not a matter of legality at all. According to rule 701 (Crime): To perform an action specified by the Rules to be Illegal is the Crime of Illegal Action. An action specified by the Rules to be "impermissible" is, by contrast, impossible. Although such an action does not occur it is not in itself a crime. In setting up a contrast between the illegal and the impermissable, Rule 701 establishes that impermissible does not imply illegal. To the contrary -- it is the Court's interpretation of the last (somewhat unclear) sentence quoted above that an action being impermissable does not cause attempts to perform that action to be Crimes. As the rule specified just before that to perform an illegal action is a Crime, it follows that to attempt to perform an impermissable action is not illegal. In reviewing this case the Court considered that there may be a precedence argument that would have the donation occur even if impermissable. The Court has not and will not decide that issue, for it is not relevant to the case. There are several reasons why the attempt to donate the trinket might fail, and it may be impossible to determine whether or not the attempt succeeded, but failed attempts to perform actions have never been considered illegal in Ackanomic, and successful attempts are certainly legal. The CFJ statement is FALSE. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Butthead, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Acka: Next Step From: alfvaen@connect.ab.ca (Aaron V. Humphrey) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:33:01 -0500 (EST) > On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Aaron V. Humphrey wrote: > >I resign as Justice. > >I change my state to Non-Voting. > I hope this is just a temporary thing, and that you will find the time to > be more active again in the future. I honestly don't know, at this point. -- --Alfvaen(Web page: http://www.connect.ab.ca/~alfvaen/ ) Song In My Head--Massive Attack:Protection Current Book--Daniel Keys Moran:The Long Run Mr. Jock, TV quiz Ph.D., bags few lynx. ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 713 (MTM) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:42:05 -0500 (EST) I observe that even if Trent is correct about there still being a rule 1, Vulcan removed its own power to modify the rules some time prior to the events in question. We do not have special power over the rules. ThinMan Evil Overlord of Ackanomic (retired) ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: Proposal 3902 Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:55:13 -0500 (EST) else..if wrote: [Niccolo wrote:] >>No. Because Corporations (ThinMan style) have explicit rules governing how >>actions are performed, they override the default methods, and members of >>Corporations are unable to manipulate them like other orgs. >>Furthermore, the default membership policy does not over ride the >>specifiation that Corporations have no members, nor would it be able to >>over ride a specificatin like the one above. This does not break >>Corporations. > Corporations define their own, but I don't think Corporations ever >disallow Org style actions. I may be missing something though, and that >isn't really the point. Whether or not this would break Corporations, it >destabilizes them, since a well intentioned amendment to Orgs could easily >affect Corps in an undesired way. This is, above all, bad design. I >agree that the problem needs to be fixed, and I can even accept this as a >tempory fix (I will vote FOR this proposal), but eventually we need a >legitimate fix which doesn't take shortcuts. Working from memory here... No, my prop does not forbid Orgs from taking actions in the ordinary Org way, should a Corp ever somehow obtain one or more members. Corps may not, however, have members. Simply changing the default membership policy will not affect that, because only Orgs that may have members have membership policies. It is always possible that the Org rules could be subjected to a larger scale rewrite that would break something about the proposed reimplementation of Corporations, but the ruleset in general is subject to such problems. ThinMan ------------------------------ From: jobollin@iumsc4.chem.indiana.edu (John Bollinger) Subject: Re: Acka: Cutting off this Vulcan thing at the Pass Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:58:33 -0500 (EST) /dev/joe wrote: >I suggest and approve that Vulcan make the following BAD_TRENT action: > >BAD_TRENT >In all game threads where Rule 1 exists and contains the text >"The organization Vulcan is empowered to, as an organizational action, >make any change whatsoever to the rules or game state." append to the >end of Rule 1 the following WHOOPS-delimited text: > >WHOOPS >This rule takes precedence over Rule 101. >{{ The paragraph of Rule 101 which contains the word "retroactively" has >square brackets placed around it so that it becomes a note.}} >{{ All aspects of the game state, including the rules and the history >of the game since September 5, 1997 are adjusted to the state they would >be in if the Vulcan action performed on that date had said > >"(2) In rule 1, change each occurrence of the number 1 to 4, then renumber >it to rule 4." > >in place of > >"(2) Change the rules by renumbering rule 1 to rule 4." >}} >{{ The square brackets around the paragraph in Rule 101 containing the word >"retroactively" are removed.}} >WHOOPS >BAD_TRENT I approve. ThinMan ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #445 *******************************