ackanomic Digest Thursday, December 10 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 442 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mueller Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 178 (Euphrates) *** Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:19:20 -0500 (EST) On 12/8/98 Trent wrote: >Call for Criminal Judgment 178 - Dec 7, 1998 >Subject: Count Tabula non-performance >Initiator: Trent (sent Dec 7 1998, 12:47 Acka) >Judge: Euphrates >Judgement: > >Statement: >Studge Committed the Crime of Non-Performance on Dec 5 > >Reasoning: >E also committed the crime on the 4th and the 8th. > >I called for an election for the empty grey council seat on Dec 1. Count >Tabula called it INCORRECTLY for a religious seat instead of a Worker Seat. >Even if it had been called correctly, the nomination period would have >ended on the fourth, and nominees should have been released for voting >consideration on the 7th, two days ago. >I called for an election for deejay on Dec 5. Count Tabula failed to >respond within 3 days. > >In the duel between MTM and Jenny, both limericks were posted on Nov 29. >There followed a 3 day voting period. The duel should have ended on the >2nd. Count Tabula has failed to do eir duty for 3 days in this instance. > >Suggested Penalty: >a A$25 Fine payable to the treasury >Impeachment of Studge from the office of Count Tabula > I call for nominations on the empty workers seat for the grey council, my long ago call was improper as it was made for religious. Reply to nominate yourself. I similarly call an election for Deejay. Ditto on the reply. Regarding the Limerick Duel: Jenny's LIMERICK: There once was a man from Hawaii Who was generally nasty and slimey Said man's limerick Made me want to be sick 'Cause he was really quite awful at writing. H*bert (at the Time)'s LIMERICK: >From "The Gingham Wearer" to "Gromit," My foe names emself sans aplomb. It Bothers the Harfers, Bores us out of our furs; It simply makes me want to vomit. VOTES: Jenny: H*bert (at the Time): JT +2EBS's Trent Slakko Wild Card Idiot Boy Vynd R-Attila The Farce Jenny Wins Then I create a trinket for 10A$ named "Car Crashes Suck" with the description "I hate using the bus while waiting for insurance companies get their butts in gear, especially when it chops about 2 hours out of my productive day. Sorry re: the late harfing on this stuff." Then I go to the libarary and enter *that* room, I close my eyes in an attempt to fight off the suduction of the ackanomicon but its no good... curiosity gets the better of me and I am inexorably drawn to read from its hallowed pages. Then I go home. As I enter, I pet some of my RulesWasps on the thoraxes and notice that in my absense they got a bit zealous on the Hive Palace.... need to trim it a bit. Studge PS remember that this is a priv message. Don't reply unless its to nominate 'n stuff. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFCJ 178 (Euphrates) *** Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:31:26 -0500 (EST) >Regarding the Limerick Duel: > >Jenny's LIMERICK: > >There once was a man from Hawaii >Who was generally nasty and slimey >Said man's limerick >Made me want to be sick >'Cause he was really quite awful at writing. > >H*bert (at the Time)'s LIMERICK: > >>From "The Gingham Wearer" to "Gromit," >My foe names emself sans aplomb. It >Bothers the Harfers, >Bores us out of our furs; >It simply makes me want to vomit. > >VOTES: > >Jenny: H*bert (at the Time): > >JT +2EBS's Trent >Slakko Wild Card >Idiot Boy >Vynd >R-Attila The Farce > >Jenny Wins These voting results are invalid. H*bert is an unambiguous reference to Wild Card. Wild Card and Jenny did not have a Duel. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:11:54 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # Player: Studge # Ackanomicon Determination # based on the following (using a 49 sided die) # 1 - 15 Arcane Trivia # 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies # 21 - 25 Inner Workings # 26 - 30 Arcane Lore # 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages # 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact # 35 - 36 Mutation # 37 - 38 Dark Domain # 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure # 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit # 42 - 42 Catastrophe # 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit # 47 - 47 Ancient One # 48 - 49 Judgement Day No. of sides on every die: 49 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 38 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Thu Dec 10 03:11:38 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id DAA26249 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:11:38 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma026244; Thu Dec 10 00:11:32 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA12995 > for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:11:46 -0800 > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:11:44 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Nomicon > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #S 49 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination > > #C Player: Studge > #C Ackanomicon Determination > #C based on the following (using a 49 sided die) > #C > #C 1 - 15 Arcane Trivia > #C 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies > #C 21 - 25 Inner Workings > #C 26 - 30 Arcane Lore > #C 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages > #C 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact > #C 35 - 36 Mutation > #C 37 - 38 Dark Domain > #C 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure > #C 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit > #C 42 - 42 Catastrophe > #C 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit > #C 47 - 47 Ancient One > #C 48 - 49 Judgement Day > > > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] > [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNm+CPj8NitsTFjcVAQFheAP/UZ/pzsKMcjoWgy8V1433Lf4e8pifO+aC SO1rQCqyHRnTkmXREGFDvnYGuZTm46CN+qTi4+QuFWp3+ZUUavjHHm7j+VAtWg5Q CFqhyJuh6BBnn0pJU7cJ9bgwQok2+8W30yBJrpedBulyunMDd9QHJRQmsZatq7Wk c/eDR+3LD3E= =MVp8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL (Ballot Stuffer, Scout, Danek) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:21:42 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, JT wrote: >Trent has pointed out to me that these players are AWOL in accordance with >rule 257. > >Persuant to that rule, I have sent them each an AWOL letter. They have 3 >days to reply. Danek did not reply to this message within the three day limit, and so is placed on vacation with and EDR of 3 days (plus 14 day grace) from Wed 09 Dec 1998 21:52:44 -0500 (EST). --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Icing on the players Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:42:40 -0500 (EST) Ethelred went On-Ice on December 9th at 12:03 Acka time. At this time he was removed from all offices (I don't know if he had any). He will become a Non-Player on March 9, 1999 at 12:03 Acka time. Since he went On-Ice involuntarily he loses some water and earth skill unless they were 0 already. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFCJ 178 (r-attila the farce) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:37:54 -0500 (EST) Euphrates has declined. r-attila the farce has been selected Call for Criminal Judgment 178 - Dec 7, 1998 Subject: Count Tabula non-performance Initiator: Trent (sent Dec 7 1998, 12:47 Acka) 1st Judge: Euphrates (declined) 2nd Judge: r-attila the farce Judgement: Statement: Studge Committed the Crime of Non-Performance on Dec 5 Reasoning: E also committed the crime on the 4th and the 8th. I called for an election for the empty grey council seat on Dec 1. Count Tabula called it INCORRECTLY for a religious seat instead of a Worker Seat. Even if it had been called correctly, the nomination period would have ended on the fourth, and nominees should have been released for voting consideration on the 7th, two days ago. I called for an election for deejay on Dec 5. Count Tabula failed to respond within 3 days. In the duel between MTM and Jenny, both limericks were posted on Nov 29. There followed a 3 day voting period. The duel should have ended on the 2nd. Count Tabula has failed to do eir duty for 3 days in this instance. Suggested Penalty: a A$25 Fine payable to the treasury Impeachment of Studge from the office of Count Tabula -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: "James McGregor" <9720137@tiree.sms.ed.ac.uk> Subject: Acka: State change Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:06:22 -0500 (EST) (Sorry if you've already seen this, but I didn't receive it first time around) I change my player state to vacationing with a duration of 35 days. Euphrates ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: State change Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:45:12 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, James McGregor wrote: >(Sorry if you've already seen this, but I didn't receive it first time around) > >I change my player state to vacationing with a duration of 35 days. It was seen, and occured at the time of your previous message. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "Gavin Logan" Subject: Acka: Filthy Masochist! (JT) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:18:17 -0500 (EST) The result fo the Filthy Masochist Hearing I called on William Shatner was "Yes, why just yesterday e received a beating from his aunt!". This results in JT being smothered in soft cushions, being given a big fluffy suit and being mistaken for David Byrne. Which now that I think of it is a rather cool punishment. The responses were: "Yes, why just yesterday e received a beating from his aunt!": rSiE rSiE's EBS Trent "Burn the witch!": smallpox blanket "Surely there should be some punctuation in that!": Jenny "Votes from entities other than players or EBSs are not big and not clever. So don't try it again Herbert": Jenny's Scroll of Crumble "He's called MTM now you stupid entity" Jenny's penickity nature [non-entity] Also, Jenny tried not to vote with eir non-existant GBS but since this hearing isn't really going on vis-a-vis the rules, then maybe it did, but then, since it isn't going on, it had no effect, but then, since it didn't exist in the first place, you all knew that. rSiE ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 700 (TRUE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:24:04 -0500 (EST) Cortez's Courtly College has upheld the initial verdict of TRUE. Wild Card has been fined 6 points. Call for Judgement 700 - November 18, 1998 Subject: Museum Win the Third CFJ Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:46 Acka) Judge: r-attila the farce (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka) Judgement: TRUE (promulgated Nov 24, 1998, 04:19 Acka) Appellant: Wild Card Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) (JT substituting) Judgement: TRUE (upheld) Statement: Pol Pot has achieved a win condition during the cuurent cycle of Ackanomic. Reasoning: I donated Doubting Thomas Jute to the museum. Therefore my benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a win condition. Judge's Reasoning: Its a clean cut yes pol pot obviously donated the named trinket as per the current ruleset. Appellant's Reasoning: I agree with various of IB's reasonings. Cortex's Reasoning: The other two similar CWCFJ's having been ruled TRUE with quite flawless reasoning supplied by Amicus Draconis, it behooves us to concur. The appellant is fined 6 points, just to keep things symmetrical(although it would have been less symmetrical had this CFJ not also been appealed). -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:26:00 -0500 (EST) Cortez's Courtly College has ruled this FALSE. Vynd has been fined 15 points for frivolous appeal. Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 Subject: Leaving on acka-research Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) Judgement: FALSE (promulgated Nov 25 1998, 04:03 Acka) Appellant: Vynd Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) Judgement: FALSE (upheld) Statement: The player known as Pol Pot left acka (and became on Ice) on Saturday 21st November 1998. Reasoning: He posted this to acka-research@muppetlabs.com On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > I give all my money to Vynd. I resign from all my offices. I leave acka. Judge's Reasoning: In the thread where i am able to judge this, it is trivially false. Appellant's Reasoning: Show me the money! Cortex Reasoning: The question here is this: In a thread which only exists if the CFJ is ruled FALSE, is it possible to rule the CFJ TRUE? The answer is yes, since one way to end a thread split is to have a thread invalidate itself. The Rules, however, are quite clear on the matter. Rule 254 states that one may leave by posting a public message to that effect. Rule 370(which should now perhaps be renamed, since its scope has been expanded)states that if a message is sent to a forum named in the Postal Code, then it is a public message only if the Postal Code says that it is. The Postal Code stated that no message sent to acka-research was a public message. Therefore the entity formerly known as Pol Pot did not successfully leave the game. [I personally feel that this contravenes Rule 101's statement that "A player always has the option to leave the game of Ackanomic", but someone else can figure out how to fix it if e wishes.] The appellant is fined 15 points--it is understandable to want to appeal a CFJ whose reasoning is as flawed as the original judge's was here, but a proper judgement was not hard to construct, so this appeal was really rather frivolous. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 700 (TRUE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:33:48 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >Cortez's Courtly College has upheld the initial verdict of TRUE. Wild Card >has been fined 6 points. > >Call for Judgement 700 - November 18, 1998 >Subject: Museum Win the Third CFJ >Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:46 Acka) >Judge: r-attila the farce (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka) >Judgement: TRUE (promulgated Nov 24, 1998, 04:19 Acka) >Appellant: Wild Card >Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) (JT substituting) >Judgement: TRUE (upheld) Assuming no further appeal, a cycle will end at Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:24:04 -0500 (EST), and wil be won by Trent. --JT, hoping we come to the end of this rapid cycle cycling soon. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: thrall page Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:13:55 -0500 (EST) http://www.ackanomic.org/~sten/thrall/ cfj archive forthcoming -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:51:32 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > Cortez's Courtly College has ruled this FALSE. Vynd has been fined 15 > points for frivolous appeal. > > Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 > Subject: Leaving on acka-research > Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) > Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) > Judgement: FALSE (promulgated Nov 25 1998, 04:03 Acka) > Appellant: Vynd > Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) > Judgement: FALSE (upheld) > > Statement: > > The player known as Pol Pot left acka (and became on Ice) on Saturday > 21st November 1998. > > Reasoning: > > He posted this to acka-research@muppetlabs.com > > On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > > > I give all my money to Vynd. I resign from all my offices. I leave acka. > > Judge's Reasoning: > > In the thread where i am able to judge this, it is trivially false. > > Appellant's Reasoning: > > Show me the money! > > Cortex Reasoning: > > The question here is this: In a thread which only exists if the CFJ is > ruled FALSE, is it possible to rule the CFJ TRUE? The answer is yes, > since one way to end a thread split is to have a thread invalidate > itself. > > The Rules, however, are quite clear on the matter. Rule 254 states that > one may leave by posting a public message to that effect. Rule 370(which > should now perhaps be renamed, since its scope has been expanded)states > that if a message is sent to a forum named in the Postal Code, then it is > a public message only if the Postal Code says that it is. The Postal Code > stated that no message sent to acka-research was a public message. > > Therefore the entity formerly known as Pol Pot did not successfully leave > the game. [I personally feel that this contravenes Rule 101's statement > that "A player always has the option to leave the game of Ackanomic", but > someone else can figure out how to fix it if e wishes.] > > The appellant is fined 15 points--it is understandable to want to appeal > a CFJ whose reasoning is as flawed as the original judge's was here, but > a proper judgement was not hard to construct, so this appeal was really > rather frivolous. > Damn! Smacked down by the Man again. Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu > -- > Trent > > Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, > Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker > Caste, Weird > ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:34:31 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > Cortez's Courtly College has ruled this FALSE. Vynd has been fined 15 > points for frivolous appeal. > > Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 > Subject: Leaving on acka-research > Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) > Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) > Judgement: FALSE (promulgated Nov 25 1998, 04:03 Acka) > Appellant: Vynd > Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) > Judgement: FALSE (upheld) > I humbly request to know what is occuring in Thread Beta, and note that that may have an effect upon Pol Pot's cycle win... -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:37:39 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > >> Cortez's Courtly College has ruled this FALSE. Vynd has been fined 15 >> points for frivolous appeal. >> >> Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 >> Subject: Leaving on acka-research >> Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) >> Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) >> Judgement: FALSE (promulgated Nov 25 1998, 04:03 Acka) >> Appellant: Vynd >> Cortex: Cortez's Courtly Cortege (Alfvaen and Slakko) >> Judgement: FALSE (upheld) >> > I humbly request to know what is occuring in Thread Beta, and note that >that may have an effect upon Pol Pot's cycle win... I believe that in the original thread beta, K 2 went deadbeat. However, unless this CFJ is appealed *and* overturned (the second of which I find highly unlikely) then the thread split is already resolved. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:42:26 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > > I believe that in the original thread beta, K 2 went deadbeat. However, > unless this CFJ is appealed *and* overturned (the second of which I find > highly unlikely) then the thread split is already resolved. > Erm, why? -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Acka: Votes Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:44:31 -0500 (EST) #vote 3878 y y y y n y y y y y y y y n y n n y y y y y n n -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:45:01 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: >> >> I believe that in the original thread beta, K 2 went deadbeat. However, >> unless this CFJ is appealed *and* overturned (the second of which I find >> highly unlikely) then the thread split is already resolved. >> > Erm, why? Because thread b only existed in the case where this was judged true (ie Trent was ineligible to be a judge). Since it's been judged false and upheld once, he was a valid judge and until it gets overturned, that is the game state. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Towsner Subject: Re: Acka: Votes Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:46:02 -0500 (EST) >#vote 3878 y y y y n y y y y y y y y n y n n y y y y y n n I note that I voted not to repeal snowgod's disease, in the hopes that the irony will cause everyone to ignore my stupid mistake. -- -Henry Towsner Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:50:43 -0500 (EST) At 07:42 PM 12/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: >> >> I believe that in the original thread beta, K 2 went deadbeat. However, >> unless this CFJ is appealed *and* overturned (the second of which I find >> highly unlikely) then the thread split is already resolved. >> > Erm, why? because K2, the judge, indicated that he thought his thread was invalid. This would mean that his CFJ call was invalid. If both sides agree, then the thread is resolved -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:00:46 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > >> I believe that in the original thread beta, K 2 went deadbeat. However, > >> unless this CFJ is appealed *and* overturned (the second of which I find > >> highly unlikely) then the thread split is already resolved. > > Erm, why? > Because thread b only existed in the case where this was judged true (ie > Trent was ineligible to be a judge). Since it's been judged false and > upheld once, he was a valid judge and until it gets overturned, that is > the game state. Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal in thread b. I submit a CFJ with the following text: "The CFJ in which it is claimed that Pol Pot left Ackanomic is not currently under appeal in the thread in which he was the initial judge as of 1am GMT 11 December 1998." -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:08:16 -0500 (EST) > Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged >true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. > If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal >in thread b. > > I submit a CFJ with the following text: > > "The CFJ in which it is claimed that Pol Pot left Ackanomic is not >currently under appeal in the thread in which he was the initial judge as >of 1am GMT 11 December 1998." > The CotC has left the game welcome back to the dark ages :-( -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:09:41 -0500 (EST) > Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged >true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. thread b, if it exists, had its judge go deadbeat. Assigning the CFJ may be difficult. > If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal >in thread b. I don't understand what you're trying to do here. perhaps you could explain -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:10:34 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> Because thread b only existed in the case where this was judged true (ie >> Trent was ineligible to be a judge). Since it's been judged false and >> upheld once, he was a valid judge and until it gets overturned, that is >> the game state. > >Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged >true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. >If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal >in thread b. No it's one CFJ.. either thread a or thread b 'really' existed. By either thread a or thread b returning a judgement, it closed off the other thread (well unless thread a returned true and thread b returned false) in which case the two threads would have contradicted themselves and we'd be very confused, but that didn't happen, so we aren't. Trent returned a result of False, which validated thread a and thus made him legal as the judge. K 2 stated that he agreed with that verdict and thus called it invalid for him to have been selected. Therefore thread b died and thread a lived. You can appeal this CFJ, but there is no longer a thread split. I believe however that your above statement did cause you to appeal this CFJ. > I submit a CFJ with the following text: > > "The CFJ in which it is claimed that Pol Pot left Ackanomic is not >currently under appeal in the thread in which he was the initial judge as >of 1am GMT 11 December 1998." This is either trivially true or trivially false. If you succeeded in appealing the CFJ regardless of thread then it's false, otherwise it is true. Fortunately, the state of this is determinable. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: CFJ 712 (ThinMan) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:21:24 -0500 (EST) ThinMan has been selected Call for Judgment 712 - Dec 10, 1998 Subject: Threadsplits Initiator: Wild Card (sent Dec 10 1998, 20:00 Acka) Judge: ThinMan Judgement: Statement: The CFJ in which it is claimed that Pol Pot left Ackanomic is not currently under appeal in the thread in which he was the initial judge as of 1am GMT 11 December 1998. Reasoning: None -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:28:40 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: > >> Because thread b only existed in the case where this was judged true (ie > >> Trent was ineligible to be a judge). Since it's been judged false and > >> upheld once, he was a valid judge and until it gets overturned, that is > >> the game state. > >Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged > >true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. > >If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal > >in thread b. > No it's one CFJ.. either thread a or thread b 'really' existed. By either > thread a or thread b returning a judgement, it closed off the other thread > (well unless thread a returned true and thread b returned false) in which > case the two threads would have contradicted themselves and we'd be very > confused, but that didn't happen, so we aren't. No! Thread X can't effect the validity of Thread Y in a negative manner... Wild Card. -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:53:43 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Jonathan David Amery wrote: >> >> Because thread b only existed in the case where this was judged true (ie >> >> Trent was ineligible to be a judge). Since it's been judged false and >> >> upheld once, he was a valid judge and until it gets overturned, that is >> >> the game state. >> >Ah, but thread a only existed in the case in which thread b was judged >> >true. If it is possible for me to appeal in thread b then I do so. >> >If it is not and by appealing in thread a then I do so and then appeal >> >in thread b. >> No it's one CFJ.. either thread a or thread b 'really' existed. By either >> thread a or thread b returning a judgement, it closed off the other thread >> (well unless thread a returned true and thread b returned false) in which >> case the two threads would have contradicted themselves and we'd be very >> confused, but that didn't happen, so we aren't. > > No! Thread X can't effect the validity of Thread Y in a negative >manner... Sure it can.. The threads are mutually exclusive. If one thread is valid, then by definition the other thread did not occur. By thread a asserting itself as valid the other thread ceases to exist. I will now also cease to stop replying to this message thread, and continue treating Trent as acting CotC. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:02:48 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > > Sure it can.. The threads are mutually exclusive. If one thread is valid, > then by definition the other thread did not occur. By thread a asserting > itself as valid the other thread ceases to exist. I will now also cease > to stop replying to this message thread, and continue treating Trent as > acting CotC. > Erm, but thread a cannot make any claim on the validity of thread b, because it's predicated on thread b being wrong, and a being right, for deity's sake... -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (FALSE) (upheld) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:14:42 -0500 (EST) At 09:02 PM 12/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, JT wrote: >> >> Sure it can.. The threads are mutually exclusive. If one thread is valid, >> then by definition the other thread did not occur. By thread a asserting >> itself as valid the other thread ceases to exist. I will now also cease >> to stop replying to this message thread, and continue treating Trent as >> acting CotC. >> > > Erm, but thread a cannot make any claim on the validity of thread b, >because it's predicated on thread b being wrong, and a being right, for >deity's sake... > K 2 stated that e felt eir thread was invalid on November 23 at 8:12 AM on acka-research. Go look it up. -- Trent Acting CotC, Acting Map-Harfer, Acting Thrallmaster, Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #442 *******************************