ackanomic Digest Monday, December 07 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 437 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL (fwd) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:12:26 -0500 (EST) Persuant to rule 257, I am forwarding scout's request to leave the game back to the main list. At the tone of this message, scout has gone On Ice. --JT, Speaker [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:05:38 -0500 (EST) From: Erin Taylor To: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL I do not wish to continue playing. It's too confusing...I'm lost. But thanks for letting me hang out and see what it was all about. Scout ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL (K 2) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:14:54 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, JT wrote: >Persuant to rule 257, I am forwarding scout's request to leave the game >back to the main list. At the tone of this message, scout has gone On >Ice. I erred. scout had not voted, so immediately became a non-player upon going On Ice. K 2, please let me know which trinkets if any were destroyed in this process. --JT ------------------------------ From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: CFC Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:47:01 -0500 (EST) I request membership in the Coalition For Change Niccolo Flychuck On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Towsner wrote: > The Coalition For Change has been founded, with members else...if, > IB, **, and WC. > I suggest that the CFC have a Quasi-Open admissions policy. > > -- > -Henry Towsner > > > > Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and > enjoy it. > -Logan Pearsall Smith > > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ From: "Bryan Federico" Subject: Re: Acka: Church Founding Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:47:57 -0500 (EST) >I pseudofound a church called the Church of SCAM > >Any and all players of acka (or non-player entities) who delight in SCAM, >in HARF, and in NEEDLESS CAPITALIZATION are welcome. I SEEK TO JOI SUCH A CHURCH!!! R-ATTILA THE FARCE (:|Worker|General Contractor|Daring Adventurer|:) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: offer n stuff Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:48:42 -0500 (EST) As Dungeon Master, I raise r-attila the firecat's intelligence by 1 I offer em my OC Training Regime -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: offer n stuff Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:49:22 -0500 (EST) >As Dungeon Master, I raise r-attila the firecat's intelligence by 1 >I offer em my OC Training Regime that should be r-attila the farce, of course -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFC Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:50:01 -0500 (EST) At 01:47 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I request membership in the Coalition For Change >Niccolo Flychuck > I request membership as well -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFC Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:54:10 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Uri Bruck wrote: >I request membership in the Coalition For Change If it would be legal for me to be a member of the Coalition for Change (which it might or might not be depending on if it's a party or a corporation), then I request admission into the Coalition for Change. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:20:40 -0500 (EST) When I was in the vault of the book the other day, I heard a gibbering voice in my ear describing amazing secrets of life and the land beyond the stainless steel. And now, after feverish work, and the A$100 fee for R&D, I have come up with the following discovery: Sack of Otherworldly Storage A player may put a tradable entity e owns in an empty Sack of OtherWorldly Storage. Entities in Sacks of Otherworldly Storage are considered to be unowned. A player may attempt to retrieve an item in a Sack of Otherworldly Storage that e owns. This has a 50% chance of success, +1% per day that the item has been in the Sack. No matter how long an entity has been in a Sack, this chance cannot be greater than 75%. If the retrieval succeeds, the entity becomes owned by the owner of the Sack again (unless this would be impermissible or illegal). No matter whether the retrieval succeeds, after the results are returned, the Sack is destroyed. When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:51:48 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >When I was in the vault of the book the other day, I heard a gibbering >voice in my ear describing amazing secrets of life and the land beyond the >stainless steel. And now, after feverish work, and the A$100 fee for R&D, >I have come up with the following discovery: > >Sack of Otherworldly Storage I object to this discovery. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: The Holiday Season Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:54:12 -0500 (EST) Seeing as it's getting near the holiday season, I request that every Ackan make a (reasonable) private request for a gift to them... and i'll do my very best to accomodate... I gave r-attila eir gift already I give JT an OC SYI, as eir gift. everyone else, go ahead and ask... the worst i can do is say no. -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: The Holiday Season Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:55:14 -0500 (EST) At 02:54 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Seeing as it's getting near the holiday season, I request that every Ackan >make a (reasonable) private request for a gift to them... and i'll do my >very best to accomodate... > >I gave r-attila eir gift already >I give JT an OC SYI, as eir gift. > that should be offer... OCs are not giftable -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: The Holiday Season Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:58:14 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>I gave r-attila eir gift already >>I give JT an OC SYI, as eir gift. >> >that should be offer... OCs are not giftable I accept this offer. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 03:22:00 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > When I was in the vault of the book the other day, I heard a gibbering > voice in my ear describing amazing secrets of life and the land beyond the > stainless steel. And now, after feverish work, and the A$100 fee for R&D, > I have come up with the following discovery: > > Sack of Otherworldly Storage > > A player may put a tradable entity e owns in an empty Sack of OtherWorldly > Storage. Entities in Sacks of Otherworldly Storage are considered to be > unowned. A player may attempt to retrieve an item in a Sack of > Otherworldly Storage that e owns. This has a 50% chance of success, +1% > per day that the item has been in the Sack. No matter how long an entity > has been in a Sack, this chance cannot be greater than 75%. If the > retrieval succeeds, the entity becomes owned by the owner of the Sack again > (unless this would be impermissible or illegal). No matter whether the > retrieval succeeds, after the results are returned, the Sack is destroyed. > > When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be > impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam Wonderful scam! Lovely scam! I object to the above Discovery. -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ThrallMaster, Map-Harfer, Justice | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: ThinMan's River Scam Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 03:28:03 -0500 (EST) Are we so scam-worshipping these days that even two weeks is no longer long enough to stop it? Or does the fact that Rule 810.1 is completely useless have something to do with it. Check the retroactivity people - I'm pretty sure it requires a random determination to have a retroactive effect - an absolute no-no. -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ThrallMaster, Map-Harfer, Justice | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: ThinMan's River Scam Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 03:39:34 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: >Are we so scam-worshipping these days that even two weeks is no longer >long enough to stop it? > >Or does the fact that Rule 810.1 is completely useless have something to >do with it. >Check the retroactivity people - I'm pretty sure it requires a random >determination to have a retroactive effect - an absolute no-no. Actually, I don't think it does. The random determination happens each day to check if the bidding was closed and determines an hour on that day. All bids after that time are just discarded. It doesn't stop them from happening, they just aren't counted for the payout and that counting happens after the determination is made. I believe it's just this side of legal for retroactivity. However, I've also been wrong in the past, so, if someone can prove that it is retroactive, I'll accept it. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 03:53:47 -0500 (EST) >> When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be >> impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. > >scam scam scam scam >scam scam scam scam >Wonderful scam! Lovely scam! > >I object to the above Discovery. I would love to hear why you guys are objecting. The obvious POINT of the gadget is to avoid limits by paying the price of possible irretrievability. Does it seem THAT broken? What kind of scam are you talking about? -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 03:59:28 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>> When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be >>> impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. >> >>scam scam scam scam >>scam scam scam scam >>Wonderful scam! Lovely scam! >> >>I object to the above Discovery. > >I would love to hear why you guys are objecting. The obvious POINT of the >gadget is to avoid limits by paying the price of possible irretrievability. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ That scam. > Does it seem THAT broken? What kind of scam are you talking about? See above. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:02:27 -0500 (EST) At 03:59 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>>> When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be >>>> impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. >>> >>>scam scam scam scam >>>scam scam scam scam >>>Wonderful scam! Lovely scam! >>> >>>I object to the above Discovery. >> >>I would love to hear why you guys are objecting. The obvious POINT of the >>gadget is to avoid limits by paying the price of possible irretrievability. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >That scam. > >> Does it seem THAT broken? What kind of scam are you talking about? > >See above. > >--JT have you ever heard of burying treasure, JT? -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:07:48 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>>I would love to hear why you guys are objecting. The obvious POINT of the >>>gadget is to avoid limits by paying the price of possible irretrievability. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >>That scam. >> >>> Does it seem THAT broken? What kind of scam are you talking about? >> >>See above. >> >>--JT > >have you ever heard of burying treasure, JT? Treasure has other purposes. This does not. As I told you on IRC, when I first looked at this, I said, *WHY* would anyone EVER want one. There was only one possible reason.... scam. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:26:10 -0500 (EST) > >Treasure has other purposes. This does not. As I told you on IRC, when >I first looked at this, I said, *WHY* would anyone EVER want one. There >was only one possible reason.... scam. > So, you would prefer players continue to do what /dev/joe, malenkai, K 2, and I have done: you'd rather we destroy the harf and the fun value of treasure by abusing the treasure rules than put something LESS effective in to phase out the abuse -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:28:54 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: >>Treasure has other purposes. This does not. As I told you on IRC, when >>I first looked at this, I said, *WHY* would anyone EVER want one. There >>was only one possible reason.... scam. >> > >So, you would prefer players continue to do what /dev/joe, malenkai, K 2, >and I have done: you'd rather we destroy the harf and the fun value of >treasure by abusing the treasure rules than put something LESS effective in >to phase out the abuse No, I'd prefer you cease abusing treasure. Adding yet another way to do the same thing doesn't stop people from abusing treasure. Fixing the treasure rules stops people from (as much) abusing treasure. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: a wonderful discovery! Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 04:54:41 -0500 (EST) At 02:20 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >When I was in the vault of the book the other day, I heard a gibbering >voice in my ear describing amazing secrets of life and the land beyond the >stainless steel. And now, after feverish work, and the A$100 fee for R&D, >I have come up with the following discovery: > >Sack of Otherworldly Storage > >A player may put a tradable entity e owns in an empty Sack of OtherWorldly >Storage. Entities in Sacks of Otherworldly Storage are considered to be >unowned. A player may attempt to retrieve an item in a Sack of >Otherworldly Storage that e owns. This has a 50% chance of success, +1% >per day that the item has been in the Sack. No matter how long an entity >has been in a Sack, this chance cannot be greater than 75%. If the >retrieval succeeds, the entity becomes owned by the owner of the Sack again >(unless this would be impermissible or illegal). No matter whether the >retrieval succeeds, after the results are returned, the Sack is destroyed. > >When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed. If this would be >impossible, it goes Somewhere Else instead. >-- please, Acka... THINK about this before you object. Is it really any more of a scam than anything in the rules right now? If it's not, then why object? Another point: JT, on IRC, suggested the following course of action 1) put something in 2) attempt to retrieve it 500 times... one of them is bound to succeed let's nip this in the bud RIGHT here. that does NOT work. The results of each random determination are separate, and occur at separate (if infintessimal) times. After each determination, "after the results are returned, the Sack is destroyed."... and of course, "When a Sack is Destroyed, anything in it is destroyed." This means that by the time you "successfully retrieve" the items, they've already been destroyed and the retrieval (which must wait on its random determination to actually occur) fails. The above is quite obviously NOT a viable scam. If you see what you think is a major scam in the above, i urge you to ask me about it publicly or privately BEFORE you object to it. -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: ThinMan's River Scam Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 05:07:43 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, JT wrote: > On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > >Are we so scam-worshipping these days that even two weeks is no longer > >long enough to stop it? > > > >Or does the fact that Rule 810.1 is completely useless have something to > >do with it. > >Check the retroactivity people - I'm pretty sure it requires a random > >determination to have a retroactive effect - an absolute no-no. > > Actually, I don't think it does. > The random determination happens each day to check if the bidding was > closed and determines an hour on that day. All bids after that time are > just discarded. It doesn't stop them from happening, they just aren't > counted for the payout and that counting happens after the determination > is made. > > I believe it's just this side of legal for retroactivity. > However, I've also been wrong in the past, so, if someone can prove that > it is retroactive, I'll accept it. It says if the bidding was closed on the _previous_ day. -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ThrallMaster, Map-Harfer, Justice | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: ThinMan's River Scam Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 05:13:36 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: >> I believe it's just this side of legal for retroactivity. >> However, I've also been wrong in the past, so, if someone can prove that >> it is retroactive, I'll accept it. > >It says if the bidding was closed on the _previous_ day. It still doesn't undo the fact that the bids were submitted. It just removes them from consideration in the final outcome. This is no different than a retracted proposal throwing away votes that had already been cast on it, including uses of Bonus Votes. IE, it doesn't change a past event which has occured, it merely prevents that past event from effecting future events (ie the distribution of the money) in a specific case. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: Holiday Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:52:53 -0500 (EST) I hope someone is willing to web harf, because the day has arrived. Merry and a Happy New Year. I go on Vacation, expected date of return January 6th, 1999. [Jenny: I have updated the ChessUmpire pages so you can download all the latest info. AIR it is currently smallpox blanket's turn, but e has taken too long and therefore would have passed by default.] Yours, Slakko -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ThrallMaster, Map-Harfer, Justice | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: Thrall Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:56:14 -0500 (EST) The following thralls happened yesterday: 3823: 404 Not Found becomes in thrall to K 2 3824: else...if, K 2 3825: Jenny, K 2 3826: Ethelred, K 2 3827: Fortunato, K 2 3828: IdiotBoy, K 2 3829: K 2, r-attila the farce 3830: rufus, K 2 3832: Red Barn, K 2 Yours, Slakko ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Acka: More Truth Revealed! (Financier) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:45:28 -0500 (EST) You may recall that the Rules make a special offer for revelation every 6th ping of the machine. They even make a provision for bidding wars to find the Truth. Once again, bidding was fast and furious as JT bid A$5 for an 'f'. And then, well, nothing! Open up your eyes: IF AND ONLY IF ***** *** *** **** *f *** **** *s ********** ** s*****, THEN the Machine That Goes *ping* shall go *ping*. IB ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: Count Tabula gone Bad Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:47:27 -0500 (EST) I submit the following IMPEACHMENT_IS_STILL_HARD delimited CFCJ IMPEACHMENT_IS_STILL_HARD Statement: Studge Committed the Crime of Non-Performance on Dec 5 Reasoning: E also committed the crime on the 4th and the 8th. I called for an election for the empty grey council seat on Dec 1. Count Tabula called it INCORRECTLY for a religious seat instead of a Worker Seat. Even if it had been called correctly, the nomination period would have ended on the fourth, and nominees should have been released for voting consideration on the 7th, two days ago. I called for an election for deejay on Dec 5. Count Tabula failed to respond within 3 days. In the duel between MTM and Jenny, both limericks were posted on Nov 29. There followed a 3 day voting period. The duel should have ended on the 2nd. Count Tabula has failed to do eir duty for 3 days in this instance. Suggested Penalty: a A$25 Fine payable to the treasury Impeachment of Studge from the office of Count Tabula IMPEACHMENT_IS_STILL_HARD -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL (fwd) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:11:17 -0500 (EST) With this reply below, Ballot Stuffer has stated he does not wish to continue playing at this time and is therefore placed On Ice. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:05:44 -0500 From: "A.K.A. TheWiz" To: JT Subject: Re: Acka: AWOL > Since you haven't posted a public message or voted in over a week, I am > sending this to you to ask if you wish to continue playing in the game of > Ackanomic. > > If you do, please reply within 3 days. > If you do not, please reply to me letting me know this as it is faster that > way. > If you do not reply within 3 days, you will be placed on Vacation, and then > subsequently placed On Ice and then possibly deregistered as a player. I do not. No time. ___Dan_Knapp____The_Mauve_Baron______________________Beep Blip Bonk_______ http://users.bergen.org/~dankna rec.games.video.classic, NES, Atari 2600, C64, Mac yes Mac Murphy was a pessimist. ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 708 (Wild Card) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:26:43 -0500 (EST) I judge this FALSE. On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > rufus has gone deadbeat. Wild Card has been selected. > > Call for Judgement 708 - November 23, 1998 > Subject: Caste Membership II > Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 23 1998, 13:40 Acka) > 1st Judge: rufus (chosen Nov 25 1998, 04:04 Acka) (deadbeat) > 2nd Judge: Wild Card > Judgement: > > Statement: Else...if is currently a member of a Caste. > > Reasoning: Clearly this CFJ is very closely related to my previous one. JT > made 3 random determinations and told them to me as dungeon master, but did > not post them publically. Were these valid in terms of letting people into > their castes? Since the determinations were made and I was told what the > results were after people were removed from their castes by 3724, did that > removal affect else..if? Note that the same question applies to ethelred > and Red Barn. -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: Deja vu (CFJ verdict) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:33:38 -0500 (EST) At 06:00 PM 11/24/98 -0500, you wrote: >I bury A$1 in a treasure and reveal the following MMM-delimited map: >MMM > This sentence is false. If the previous sentence is true, >else...if will find this treasure. >MMM > >I note that I have found the above treasure. > > I make the following CFJ: >Statement: > It is equally legal and illegal for the Treasure-Harfer to mark the >treasure described above (the one with the map reading "This sentence is >false. If the previous sentence is true, else...if will find this >treasure.") as found. > >Reasoning: > First, this is a PWCFJ. > This is the same concept as PolPot's recent PW. The questions is >whether this is close enough to be dismissed as invalid. Rule 1217 says: "Upon a player (who is not a map custodian with respect to the map in question) achieving the conditions for finding buried Treasure as specified by a Treasure Map, it is a duty of the map writer or a map custodian (if any exist) to make this fact, and the map, public (once they become aware of the condition being achieved, and final act that lead to the condition being achieved is publically knowable)." The treasure map was a simple Eubulides' (Liar's) Paradox. The divisions into which statements are categorized (assuming that we're not in an extended liar's paradox) are the following three: 1) true statements 2) false statements 3) statements with no truth value. I note that this is NOT a case, as was my PW attempt, where at any given moment, one of 1 or 2 was true; there is no temporal element involved here. The statement has no truth value. Going from there, I see one major problem: the final action that led to the finding of the treasure (the truth of the previous sentence) was not publicly knowable. Thus the treasure was never found. The CFJ is FALSE Furthermore, even if the treasure was findable, the best that could be hoped for would be INVALID. The very first Paradox Win was a liar's paradox (CFJ 184) and thus would be INVALID by rules, by rule 211, which says: "Any Paradox Win CFJ which is based on the same sort of Paradox, in the judgement of the judge, as any Paradox Win CFJ ever judged TRUE, shall be judged Invalid." -- Trent Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Rules-Harfer, Worker Caste, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Holiday Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:45:20 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: >I hope someone is willing to web harf, because the day has arrived. > >Merry and a Happy New Year. > >I go on Vacation, expected date of return January 6th, 1999. Slakko held the following offices which I now hold in an acting capacity: Clerk of the Courts Map-Harfer Thrallmaster Web-Harfer Grey Council (I do not hold this one in acting capacity since I hold a seat on the grey council myself. I believe Slakko continues holding that seat.) I am acting officer for all of the above (except Grey Council) and will gladly accept anyone who wishes to take on any or all of these in an acting capacity. Please publically state your interest in filling in for any of these. --JT, Well aware he won't be able to do all of them. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Cycle 29 ended Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:58:01 -0500 (EST) At 04:13:33 Acka time this morning, Cycle 29 ended. At this time, the following things happened in order. a) Ackanomic play is suspended b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit and Agenda Hats that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are destroyed. I will let Financier K 2 handle the Goose Eggs and Grapefruit. Hat E12 currently held by the Mad Hatters was destroyed. Hat E6 currently buried in Treasure 270 was destroyed. Hat E17 currently buried in Treasure 271 was destroyed. (This actually probably happened last cycle end or even the one prior to that since Trent tried to wear it illegally and it wasn't noticed until he took it off and pointed it out. I am recording it here as it makes no fundamental difference) The eggplants associated with the above are destroyed. c) The winner is given the title of winner of the cycle, and a Right-Handed Grapefruit and a Champion's Cloak are created in that player's possession. If this results in his having two Champion's Cloaks, one of them is instantly transformed into a Badge of Glory. Studge is given the title of winner of the cycle and a RHG. He is given a Champion's Cloak. d) All players who have zero or fewer points are given a Chartreuse Goose Egg. I will let Scorekeeper K 2 provide this information. e) If the amount of A$s in circulation plus the value of all extant Trinkets exceeded the amount in the Treasury at the time this winner was declared, the following shall occur: i) Excluding the winner, all entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero shall transfer 10% of eir Total Wealth to the Treasury. ii) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero, shall be placed on The List in decreasing order of Total Wealth. iii) The entity appearing highest on The List, shall transfer 5% of eir total wealth to the player lowest on The List and both entities shall be removed from The List. iv) If there are at least two entities and at least one player are still on The List step iii is repeated. I will let Financier K 2 accomplish this task and report the results. Should there be a need to break ties to place people on the list (people have the same total wealth or whatever) I will be more than happy to generate some random numbers as needed. f) Each Player is awarded A$ equal to his point total. Scorekeeper K 2 should post the final scores shortly :) g) Each player's score is set to zero. Need I keep saying how easy this is :) h) If the cycle currently ending has exceeded 30 days in length, all players who have been vacationing for the entire cycle are removed from the game as if they have quit. The cycle was less than 30 days in length. i) If the cycle was won by points (i.e. the Winning Condition was due to Rule 603), then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*1.2). If the last two cycles were not won by points, then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*0.9). Neither of the previous two cycles were won by points. The base value of the Magic Number is set to 313. j) The game cycle number is incremented, and the Magic Number is reset to its base value. Welcome to cycle 30. The Magic Number is reset to 313. k) All players who are in Gaol are released from Gaol. All players who are in the Ackanomic Afterlife are relocated to their homes. I don't believe anyone was in either place. l) If the game state is such that the single winner of the last cycle would immediately win again upon the resumption of Ackanomic play, the Chartreuse Goose is transferred to that player. This is not the case. m) All events specified by other rules to occur at the end of the cycle occur, in the numeric order of the rule that defines the event. By rule 540, Studge gains 1 point of 'Order'. By rule 550.1, Studge gains 2 honour. n) Ackanomic play resumes. The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from the time of this message. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Acka: Cycle 30 ended Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:00:46 -0500 (EST) At 04:13:33 Acka time this morning, Cycle 30 ended (an infinitesimal amount of time after Cycle 29 ended). At this time, the following things happened in order. a) Ackanomic play is suspended b) All Chartreuse Goose Eggs, Right-Handed Grapefruit and Agenda Hats that are not being worn are destroyed. All Nemesis Eggplants with the same condition as an Agenda Hat that was destroyed in this manner are destroyed. I will let Financier K 2 handle the Goose Eggs and Grapefruit. c) The winner is given the title of winner of the cycle, and a Right-Handed Grapefruit and a Champion's Cloak are created in that player's possession. If this results in his having two Champion's Cloaks, one of them is instantly transformed into a Badge of Glory. r-attila the farce is given the title of winner of the cycle and a RHG. He is given a Champion's Cloak. d) All players who have zero or fewer points are given a Chartreuse Goose Egg. I will let Scorekeeper K 2 provide this information. I believe all players got Goose Eggs. e) If the amount of A$s in circulation plus the value of all extant Trinkets exceeded the amount in the Treasury at the time this winner was declared, the following shall occur: i) Excluding the winner, all entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero shall transfer 10% of eir Total Wealth to the Treasury. ii) All entities with a Total Wealth greater than zero, shall be placed on The List in decreasing order of Total Wealth. iii) The entity appearing highest on The List, shall transfer 5% of eir total wealth to the player lowest on The List and both entities shall be removed from The List. iv) If there are at least two entities and at least one player are still on The List step iii is repeated. I will let Financier K 2 accomplish this task and report the results. Should there be a need to break ties to place people on the list (people have the same total wealth or whatever) I will be more than happy to generate some random numbers as needed. f) Each Player is awarded A$ equal to his point total. Scorekeeper K 2 should post the final scores shortly :) g) Each player's score is set to zero. Need I keep saying how easy this is :) h) If the cycle currently ending has exceeded 30 days in length, all players who have been vacationing for the entire cycle are removed from the game as if they have quit. The cycle was less than 30 days in length. i) If the cycle was won by points (i.e. the Winning Condition was due to Rule 603), then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*1.2). If the last two cycles were not won by points, then amend Rule 603 to change the base value of the Magic Number to the smallest prime number greater than (the current Magic Number*0.9). Neither of the previous two cycles were won by points. The base value of the Magic Number is set to 283. j) The game cycle number is incremented, and the Magic Number is reset to its base value. Welcome to cycle 31. The Magic Number is reset to 283. k) All players who are in Gaol are released from Gaol. All players who are in the Ackanomic Afterlife are relocated to their homes. I don't believe anyone was in either place. l) If the game state is such that the single winner of the last cycle would immediately win again upon the resumption of Ackanomic play, the Chartreuse Goose is transferred to that player. This is not the case. m) All events specified by other rules to occur at the end of the cycle occur, in the numeric order of the rule that defines the event. By rule 540, r-attila the farce gains 1 point of 'Order'. By rule 550.1, r-attila the farce gains 2 honour. n) Ackanomic play resumes. The Fat Lady has begun singing and will continue to sing until 1 day from the time of this message. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #437 *******************************