ackanomic Digest Wednesday, November 25 1998 Volume 03 : Issue 425 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 705 (Thomas Jute) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:40:03 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > Thomas Jute has been selected. > > Call for Judgement 705 - November 21, 1998 > Subject: JAM Join > Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 21 1998, 19:00 Acka) > Judge: Thomas Jute > Judgement: > > Statement: Thomas Jute is a member of the Justified Ancients of Mummu > > Reasoning: I tried to let em in as founder... did it work? YOU decide > If it was a Cult at the time, then no. Nowhere does the Church rule give a Church Founder any power similar to the power e has as a Church Founder. Cult and Church are two different types of Organziations , with rules that specify when one transforms into the other. Niccolo Flychuck ------------------------------ From: Eric Plumb Subject: Acka: The Charm Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:43:37 -0500 (EST) I change my state to Voting, assuming I can. I change my name back to Hubert, under the same condition. I offer A$16 to anyone who ineligiblizes emself for the Hubert treasure in a message quoted from me. I glare at Gromit and rufus. -The Green Ripper, the once and future Hubert Dog for sale: eats anything and is fond of children. ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 705 (Thomas Jute) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:50:20 -0500 (EST) >Nowhere does the Church rule give a Church Founder any power similar to the >power e has as a Church Founder. > >Niccolo Flychuck > Is that a typo? I sure hope so. -- Pol Pot Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Religious Caste, Rules-Harfer, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: The Charm Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:54:02 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Eric Plumb wrote: >I change my state to Voting, assuming I can. I believe you are able to do so :) >I change my name back to Hubert, under the same condition. I ack this name change assuming you have the A$25 :) >I offer A$16 to anyone who ineligiblizes emself for the Hubert treasure >in a message quoted from me. Since I'm already ineligible I ignore this :) but I'll offer A$17 :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Acka: A New Hope Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:30:04 -0500 (EST) These are Evil Times. Times of Earthquakes, Tornadoes, and Scams beyond our wildest imaginations. The end is coming. Nay, the end is here. I call upon my brethren Ackanomians to find the light, the light of ZORGON. ZORGON is the one true diety; TILAIH, FUXMUT, LADSAZ, and PEHWED are mere shadows by comparison. I pseudofound the Church of ZORGON. For those interested, the first book of ZORGON (in both English and in the transliterated tongue of the ancients) is up at http://www.sonic.net/~gl25/zorgon.html See the light Join the Church Join the Jyhad against the vile: 1) K 2 the orgkiller 2) two-star the evil orgnapper 3+4)smallpox blanket and JT the evil attempted orgnappers Join, and the embrace of ZORGON will welcome you home. -- Pol Pot Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Religious Caste, Rules-Harfer, Weird ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 705 (Thomas Jute) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:38:47 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Uri Bruck wrote: >If it was a Cult at the time, then no. Nowhere does the Church rule give a >Church Founder any power similar to the power e has as a Church >Founder. Cult and Church are two different types of Organziations , with >rules that specify when one transforms into the other. I would actually disagree with you here Uri. At least a bit. Rule 1301 says (this is the part about cults) 8. a. If a Church ever has no Priest, or (Heaven Forbid!) fewer than zero Priests, or fewer than four members, it is transformed into a Cult. Okay, I agree with you it became a cult. b. The Cult has the same name as the Church and retains ownership of all the assets and entities of the Church; however, it is impermissible for the Cult to trade or to use any Organizational Powers. This takes precedence over R1003. c. For purposes of membership, the Church Founder is considered a Priest. Hmm.. So the Church Founder *is* considered to be a Priest of the Cult. d. Any function that can be performed by a Priest, can also be performed by the Church Founder. This seems to imply that the fact that a person is a founder still has some influence over a cult. Perhaps not according to church doctrine, but it's possible that c above was sufficient to re-insert the founder into the cult. I don't think so, but it is possible. I would also mention that the section on Cults uses Church throughout it's section, lending some confusion to the distinction between the two even though they are called out as distinct types of organizations. Because of this confusion it might be that 'Cults' are a Sub-Type of 'Churches' and therefore things that work for a church still work for a cult within the further restrictions imposed on cults (if any). --JT, glad he's not the judge of this CFJ for the moment :) [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Re: Acka: Sorry! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:02:51 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote: > > > JT wrote: > > > I realized today that I'd made a mistake. When Aunt Froot sent this > > message, he was in fact still on Vacation. He went On-Ice on the 21st of > > November when he left the game, and will become a Non-Player 90 days > > from that date. > > In that case I nominate Aunt Froot for the Hall of Elders. I also support this > nomination. I support this nomination. For the benefit of others, Attila the Pun's proposal record reads: Accepted 18, Rejected 13, Retracted 4. 2 Harfy: 1 Accepted, 1 Rejected. -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 704 (alpha - FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:03:00 -0500 (EST) Pol Pot has judged this FALSE. Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 Subject: Leaving on acka-research Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) Judgement: FALSE Statement: The player known as Pol Pot left acka (and became on Ice) on Saturday 21st November 1998. Reasoning: He posted this to acka-research@muppetlabs.com On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > I give all my money to Vynd. I resign from all my offices. I leave acka. Judge's Reasoning: In the thread where i am able to judge this, it is trivially false. ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 699 (1-TRUE) (Amicus Draconis) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:03:07 -0500 (EST) IdiotBoy has appealed. This goes to Amicus Draconis. Call for Judgement 699 - November 18, 1998 Subject: Museum Win the Second CWCFJ Initiator: r-attila the farce (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:39 Acka) Judge: else...if (chosen Nov 19 1998, 05:21 Acka) Judgement: TRUE (promulgated Nov 23 1998, 03:15 Acka) Appellant: IdiotBoy Cortex: Amicus Draconis (JT and Vynd) Statement: r-attila the farce has achieved a win condition during the cuurent cycle of Ackanomic. Reasoning: I donated Thomas Jute is happy to the museum. Therefore my benefactor value was greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a win condition. Judge's Reasoning: (none) Appellant Reasoning: r-attila the farce never had possession of the Trinket "Thomas Jute is happy". The creation of Thomas Jute is happy was created using A$ the destruction of another Trinket which was still in the Museum, and thus the A$ to create Thoma Jute is happy were not avaiable Since the trinket was never created, it could not have been donated to the Museum. Since it was never donated to the Museum, it could not have changed r-attila the farce's BV. Since r-attila the farce's BV is less than A$5001, e has not achieved a Winning Condition. The Court will note that rule 850 specifically states that: "Entities may not be removed or stolen from the Museum except as described by the rules" Current game custom and rule interpretation leads us to the conclusion that in order for an Entity to be removed from the Museum, the rules must specifically describe the way in which it is to be removed. The "forgery" rule [506] which was used to remove "Thomas Jute is happy"'s ancestor from the Museum do not provide such specification. One may contend that our pragmatic view of the rules allows the "forgery" rules to extract Entities from the Museum. This is insupportable. In cases where the rules provide a means for Entities to be manipulated in a specific manner, those rules provide the ONLY means of such manipulation. We have rules which describe the manner in which Entities may be removed from the Museum, rule 506 is not one of them. Bronze Torch Reasoning (/dev/joe): IdiotBoy wrote a very nice appeal reasoning for this CFJ, but it is all based on the clause in Rule 850 which states: > "Entities may not be removed or stolen from the Museum except as described > by the rules" However, Rule 850 has no special precedence (except for the Private Collection Room, which this trinket was not in), so if this clause would prevent the forgery from being transferred to Thomas Jute, it fails to do so because Rule 506 has precedence. I also note that (to me) it has never been clear whether entities in the Museum are actually owned by the Museum, or simply unowned and on display in the Museum. It is entirely possible that Thomas Jute owned the trinket in question while it was still on display in the Museum. In this case, the subsequent destruction of the trinket by Rule 506 (which only requires ownership, and does not care that the trinket might happen to be on display in the museum at the time) also had precedence over whatever in Rule 850 may have attempted to prevent such destruction. ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 707 (Thomas Jute) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:04:38 -0500 (EST) Thomas Jute has been selected again. Call for Judgement 707 - November 23, 1998 Subject: Cast Entry Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 23 1998, 13:40 Acka) Judge: Thomas Jute Judgement: Statement: Else...If has been a member of a caste since e last joined Ackanomic Reasoning: I don't know whether this is true or not. When does a player coming off ice join a caste? Immediately? When the determination is made? ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 708 (rufus) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:04:47 -0500 (EST) rufus has been selected. Call for Judgement 708 - November 23, 1998 Subject: Caste Membership II Initiator: Pol Pot (sent Nov 23 1998, 13:40 Acka) Judge: rufus Judgement: Statement: Else...if is currently a member of a Caste. Reasoning: Clearly this CFJ is very closely related to my previous one. JT made 3 random determinations and told them to me as dungeon master, but did not post them publically. Were these valid in terms of letting people into their castes? Since the determinations were made and I was told what the results were after people were removed from their castes by 3724, did that removal affect else..if? Note that the same question applies to ethelred and Red Barn. ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:05:04 -0500 (EST) IdiotBoy has judged this FALSE. Call for Judgement 698 - November 18, 1998 Subject: Museum Win The First Initiator: Thomas Jute (sent Nov 18 1998, 01:35 Acka) 1st Judge: K 2 (chosen Nov 19, 1998, 05:21 Acka) (left) 2nd Judge: IdiotBoy (chosen Nov 21, 1998, 04:15 Acka) Judgement: FALSE Statement: Thomas Jute has achieved a win condition during the cuurent cycle of Ackanomic. Reasoning: I donated r-attila the farce is happy to the museum. Therefore my benefactor value is greater than A$5000 which R850 indicates gives me a win condition. Judge's Reasoning: At the time of this judgement, I could not find "r-attila the farce is happy" in the Museum. Rule 850 states: "Each Museum benefactor has a benefactor value (BV), which is the sum of the value of all objects on display in the North Wing that that benefactor donated (the benefactor of record is considered to be the last player to donate a particular object)." At the time of this judgement, I can find no items on display in the North Wing which have been donated by Thomas Jute. His BV is, therefore, 0. This conflicts directly with the reasoning for the Winning Condition. Perhaps, then, Thomas Jute has been scammed out of his Winning Condition by an unsavory art thief. The logs indicate, rather, that Thomas Jute gave this Trinket to the Museum, submitted his CWCFJ, then it was pointed out that the Trinket was a Forgery and thus removed from the Museum. Unfortunately for Thomas Jute, all of these actions occured in the same message and must be considered to have occured essentially at the same time. I say unfortunately, for that denies Thomas Jute his hard earned win. Here's what happens, according to R850 (the quotations from the rule will be indented for clarity): Upon a benefactor's BV exceeding A$5000, if e is a voting player, all objects donated by that benefactor are transferred to the West Wing, and a big ceremony, which is a public gathering, is held. At the point where ""r-attila the farce is happy" was donated to the Museum, Thomas Jute's BV exceeded A$5000. So the above happened, except: If this appears to occur simultaneously with a player becoming a Member of the Museum, however, it will occur an infinitesimal time afterwards instead. So, it didn't happen right away. In between the time that the Trinket was donated and it was declared a forgery, Thomas Jute was made a Member of the Museum (since his BV did not exceed A$1000, previously.) He didn't have all of his objects moved to the West Wing, because that would have occured after the forgery had already been discovered. Additionally: Then that benefactor becomes a Life Member of the Museum, and his name is added to the end of the list of names on the plaque in front of the West Wing, and the lighted sign in front of the West Wing stops displaying whatever it was displaying and begins displaying that benefactor's name, and the lighted sign in front of the North Wing starts displaying 'North'. The above didn't happen, occurring even later than the transfer would have occurred. Which means that: Then, if that is the first time that player has had a benefactor value exceeding A$5000, he achieves a Winning Condition. This certainly did not occur. As it would have happened FAR outside of the scope of the message in question, much later than the discovery of the forgery. Additionally, I note that Thomas Jute will now be unable to achieve a so-called "Museum Win", since eir BV has already exceeded A$5000 once. Since I have the right of this forum to do so, I will note that I find this attempted win to be among the most repulsive in all my time in Ackanomic. Perhaps what bothers me most is the tacit (and even in some cases explicit) collusion of some of Ackanomic's foremost citizens and Officers to, quite frankly, steal cycle wins. Ackanomic is -not- a formal system. It should not be interpreted as such. It is the considered opinion of this court that continued reliance on the Letter of the Law, to the -exclusion- to the Spirit of the Law, to direct gameplay will lessen the "fun value" for all Players. ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: CFJ 709 (SIRe) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:05:11 -0500 (EST) SIRe has been selected. Call for Judgement 709 - November 24, 1998 Subject: Indeterminate Treasure Value PWCFJ Initiator: else...if (sent Nov 24 1998, 18:00 Acka) Judge: SIRe Judgement: Statement: It is equally legal and illegal for the Treasure-Harfer to mark the treasure described above (the one with the map reading "This sentence is false. If the previous sentence is true, else...if will find this treasure.") as found. Reasoning: First, this is a PWCFJ. This is the same concept as PolPot's recent PW. The questions is whether this is close enough to be dismissed as invalid. ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Acka: You *ping* me right round, baby. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:00:13 -0500 (EST) Today is Wednesday, the 25th day of November, and the Machine That Goes *ping* Has Gone *ping* today. Since I have been scholar, the Machine has gone *ping* 7 times. IB Scholar of *ping* ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 704 (alpha - FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:19:04 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > Pol Pot has judged this FALSE. > > Call for Judgement 704 - November 21, 1998 > Subject: Leaving on acka-research > Initiator: Wild Card (sent Nov 21 1998, 10:02 Acka) > Judge: Pol Pot (Thread Alpha) (chosen Nov 23 1998, 04:02 Acka) > Judgement: FALSE > > Statement: > > The player known as Pol Pot left acka (and became on Ice) on Saturday > 21st November 1998. > > Reasoning: > > He posted this to acka-research@muppetlabs.com > > On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > > > I give all my money to Vynd. I resign from all my offices. I leave acka. > > Judge's Reasoning: > > In the thread where i am able to judge this, it is trivially false. > > > I appeal this judgemen. As required I exercise my option under Section VI of Rule 217 to delcine to judge this appeal. Reasoning: Show me the money! Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu ------------------------------ From: "Joseph W. DeVincentis" Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:20:25 -0500 (EST) IdiotBoy makes some interesting points on CFJ 698: > Unfortunately for Thomas Jute, all of these actions occured in the same > message and must be considered to have occured essentially at the same > time. I say unfortunately, for that denies Thomas Jute his hard earned > win. > > Here's what happens, according to R850 (the quotations from the rule will be > indented for clarity): > > Upon a benefactor's BV exceeding A$5000, if e is a voting player, all > objects donated by that benefactor are transferred to the West Wing, > and a big ceremony, which is a public gathering, is held. > > At the point where ""r-attila the farce is happy" was donated to the > Museum, Thomas Jute's BV exceeded A$5000. So the above happened, except: > > If this appears to occur simultaneously with a player becoming a > Member of the Museum, however, it will occur an infinitesimal time > afterwards instead. > > So, it didn't happen right away. In between the time that the Trinket was > donated and it was declared a forgery, Thomas Jute was made a Member of > the Museum (since his BV did not exceed A$1000, previously.) Agreed so far. > He didn't have all of his objects moved to the West Wing, because that > would have occured after the forgery had already been discovered. Not *yet*, he means. An infinitesimal time afterwards, it occurs, because the rules said so, even if the player's BV dropped below A$5000 before the event could occur. Similarly, the whole sequence of events which ends with: > Then, if that is the first time that player has had a benefactor value > exceeding A$5000, he achieves a Winning Condition. occurs. The interesting point I see coming from this whole line of reasoning is whether or not these events occurred before the CFJ was submitted. An "infinitesimal" time is a moment so short it can't be quantified in any other way. As has been the subject of discussion of late, no rule says actions in public messages occur "in sequence" and the rules prevent them from occur at any measurably different time, but game custom has long held that players can perform actions in sequence in a single message. Thus, actions in a single message can only occur an infinitesimal time after the earlier actions in that message, when a sequence is stated or implied. Which infinitesimals are bigger or smaller may be subject to debate, but CFJ 689 implied all the infinitesimals are of the same size if possible. If each of the "then"s in R850 is also an infinitesimal break, as seems reasonable, it is possible the CWCFJ was submitted before the Winning Condition was actually achieved. Otherwise, we have the bizarre situation that the CWCFJ was submitted *simultaneously* with the achievement of the winning condition. My brain hurts, but I choose not to appeal this CFJ at this time, but I do add the preceding paragraph to it as Bronze Torch reasoning. > Ackanomic is -not- a formal system. It should not be interpreted as such. > It is the considered opinion of this court that continued reliance on the > Letter of the Law, to the -exclusion- to the Spirit of the Law, to direct > gameplay will lessen the "fun value" for all Players. IdiotBoy should read rule 101, which, as the prime law of the game, says "All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect, and interpreted in accordance with current game custom." Spirit does now apply until Rule 215, where it only applies "[w]hen the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the statement in question, however, then the Judge shall consider currently existing game custom and the spirit of the game in reaching a decision." (Later in the rules, "spirit" also enters in judging the validity of name changes, spelling bee flights, games and contests, and treasures.) While I agree that Ackanomic is not a formal system, to ignore the letter of the law in favor of the spirit is to violate the rules. /dev/joe ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:02:59 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Joseph W. DeVincentis wrote: > IdiotBoy makes some interesting points on CFJ 698: > > Unfortunately for Thomas Jute, all of these actions occured in the same > > message and must be considered to have occured essentially at the same > > time. I say unfortunately, for that denies Thomas Jute his hard earned > > win. > > > > Here's what happens, according to R850 (the quotations from the rule will be > > indented for clarity): > > > > Upon a benefactor's BV exceeding A$5000, if e is a voting player, all > > objects donated by that benefactor are transferred to the West Wing, > > and a big ceremony, which is a public gathering, is held. > > > > At the point where ""r-attila the farce is happy" was donated to the > > Museum, Thomas Jute's BV exceeded A$5000. So the above happened, except: > > > > If this appears to occur simultaneously with a player becoming a > > Member of the Museum, however, it will occur an infinitesimal time > > afterwards instead. > > > > So, it didn't happen right away. In between the time that the Trinket was > > donated and it was declared a forgery, Thomas Jute was made a Member of > > the Museum (since his BV did not exceed A$1000, previously.) > > Agreed so far. > > > He didn't have all of his objects moved to the West Wing, because that > > would have occured after the forgery had already been discovered. > > Not *yet*, he means. An infinitesimal time afterwards, it occurs, because > the rules said so, even if the player's BV dropped below A$5000 before the > event could occur. Similarly, the whole sequence of events which ends with: > > > exceeding A$5000, he achieves a Winning Condition. > > occurs. The interesting point I see coming from this whole line of > reasoning is whether or not these events occurred before the CFJ was > submitted. > If you are willing to concede that they did -not- occur before the CFJ was submitted, it is not that much of a stretch to say that the Winning Condition was not achieved, at all. If the Trinket is delcared a forgery BEFORE the final "Then", the Winning Condition is not achieved. (Or so goes the Idiot's reasoning.) I will further note that this is a completely different line of reasoning from the appeal I placed on another CWCFJ of the same variety. And, yes, I am trying to make a point by having one appeal fail, one left unappealed, and one ruled false. Yes, this all has to do with the quantification of infintessimals, as you note further along in your response.. > > Ackanomic is -not- a formal system. It should not be interpreted as such. > > It is the considered opinion of this court that continued reliance on the > > Letter of the Law, to the -exclusion- to the Spirit of the Law, to direct > > gameplay will lessen the "fun value" for all Players. > > IdiotBoy should read rule 101, which, as the prime law of the game, says > "All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the > form in which they are then in effect, and interpreted in accordance with > current game custom." I have read the relevant rule. I -suppose- this can be interpretated as requiring strict adherance to the percept upon percept parsing of the rules, but I like to believe otherwise. I like to believe that the "current game custom" phrase gives us the opportunity to move forward as a game to a more reasonable means of interpretation. > While I agree that Ackanomic is not a formal system, to ignore the letter > of the law in favor of the spirit is to violate the rules. > I disagree. I think that /dev/joe's interpreation makes the rules constantly scammable and the game unfun. IB dumber than a box of hammers ------------------------------ From: AARON KEESLER Subject: GAD! (Round 7) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:14:00 -0500 (EST) And of course, Thomas Jute has 1 donkey. ------------------ Aaron Keesler Lotus Notes Administrator Intranet Administrator Adtran, Inc. ------------------ "And now... Number one: The Larch." ------------------------------ From: AARON KEESLER Subject: Acka: GAD! (Round 7) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:15:59 -0500 (EST) Here, finally, are the scores for last Round. I have bronchitis (cough, cough), so I haven't had access to e-mail for a few days. I checked back through the e-mails I've gotten, and I think that Thomas Jute having one donkey is the only error I've made so far. Anyway, I've decided not to resign as Wrangler... I might as well see it out. So: First off, Thomas Jute does have one donkey. Since he probably didn't realize that, he admired it, along with Alfvaen. Slakko also admired his large (though about to be smaller) herd of donkeys. Pol Pot grabbed Gromit's donkey, since Gromit was attempting to sneak a lasso past Robin Hood's blanket. IdiotBoy snatched one of /dev/joe's donkeys, while /dev/joe was snatching Slakko's. Current GAL: Alfvaen Pol Pot /dev/joe IdiotBoy Robin Hood Slakko Current Scores: Robin Hood - 3 IdiotBoy - 3 /dev/joe - 2 Slakko - 2 Alfvaen - 2 Pol Pot - 2 Reply to this message with yer next play. ------------------ Aaron Keesler Lotus Notes Administrator Intranet Administrator Adtran, Inc. ------------------ "And now... Number one: The Larch." ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:23:40 -0500 (EST) >> Then, if that is the first time that player has had a benefactor value >> exceeding A$5000, he achieves a Winning Condition. > >occurs. The interesting point I see coming from this whole line of >reasoning is whether or not these events occurred before the CFJ was >submitted. > >An "infinitesimal" time is a moment so short it can't be quantified in >any other way. As has been the subject of discussion of late, no rule >says actions in public messages occur "in sequence" and the rules >prevent them from occur at any measurably different time, but game custom >has long held that players can perform actions in sequence in a single >message. Thus, actions in a single message can only occur an infinitesimal >time after the earlier actions in that message, when a sequence is stated >or implied. Which infinitesimals are bigger or smaller may be subject to >debate, but CFJ 689 implied all the infinitesimals are of the same size >if possible. If each of the "then"s in R850 is also an infinitesimal >break, as seems reasonable, it is possible the CWCFJ was submitted before >the Winning Condition was actually achieved. Otherwise, we have the >bizarre situation that the CWCFJ was submitted *simultaneously* with the >achievement of the winning condition. > I appeal this verdict. I offer no reasoning other than /dev/joe's; our esteemed justices are better suited to interpret the rules than I. However, here is a little impromptu reasoning by example that I do NOT think of as superlogical thought, but rather as an illustrative metaphor I go to the library I go home where am I? did I do those at the same time? If I said I go to the library, then to the vault of the book I go home what happens first there? is the THEN in the initial is processed before moving on? I would say so. The IDEA of an "infintessimal amount of time" is that it is impossible to do anything before this time has passed. If we allow things to occur based on concurrent "infintessimals" AT the same time, we destroy the integrity of this infintessimal. The more reasonable, non-paradoxical view of the rules says that a series of infintessimal events that has begun FINISHES before another one starts. -- Pol Pot Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Religious Caste, Rules-Harfer, Weird ------------------------------ From: Gabe Drummond-Cole Subject: Re: Acka: GAD! (Round 7) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:26:01 -0500 (EST) At 11:15 AM 11/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Here, finally, are the scores for last Round. I have bronchitis (cough, >cough), so I haven't had access to e-mail for a few days. I checked >back through the e-mails I've gotten, and I think that Thomas Jute >having one donkey is the only error I've made so far. Anyway, I've >decided not to resign as Wrangler... I might as well see it out. So: > >First off, Thomas Jute does have one donkey. Since he probably didn't >realize that, he admired it, along with Alfvaen. Slakko also admired >his large (though about to be smaller) herd of donkeys. > >Pol Pot grabbed Gromit's donkey, since Gromit was attempting to sneak a >lasso past Robin Hood's blanket. > >IdiotBoy snatched one of /dev/joe's donkeys, while /dev/joe was >snatching Slakko's. > >Current GAL: what happened to Thomas Jute? He still has 1, right? > >Alfvaen >Pol Pot >/dev/joe >IdiotBoy >Robin Hood >Slakko > >Current Scores: > >Robin Hood - 3 >IdiotBoy - 3 >/dev/joe - 2 >Slakko - 2 >Alfvaen - 2 >Pol Pot - 2 -- Pol Pot Crazy French-Scotsman, Daring Adventurer, Dungeon Master, Really Weird, Religious Caste, Rules-Harfer, Weird ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:42:21 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > is the THEN in the initial is processed before moving on? > I would say so. The IDEA of an "infintessimal amount of time" is that it > is impossible to do anything before this time has passed. If we allow > things to occur based on concurrent "infintessimals" AT the same time, we > destroy the integrity of this infintessimal. The more reasonable, > non-paradoxical view of the rules says that a series of infintessimal > events that has begun FINISHES before another one starts. > A series of infintessimal events such as 3 actions in the same message? These either happen as discrete events seperated by noninfintessimals (how does THAT work, is the value of the timestamp gone forever?), or those 3 events must take place before the events triggered by the 1st event (in the theory you propose.) I, by the way, don't have any particular insight as to which interpretation is 'correct'.. my reasoning follows the one which seems to me most reasonable, but this is a matter which is quite appealable. See it was, at least, an interesting reasoning! IB ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: Run for the Hills Folks! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:14:58 -0500 (EST) A Really Bad Earthquake has happened! cluck cluck cluck cluck clonk Yours, Slakko -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: Duncan Richer Subject: Acka: BAU Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:20:27 -0500 (EST) The new map has been placed on the webpages. It is now Business as Usual, although there is now a corridor around the centre of the city, which has yet to be filled by a single occupied kaa. I would like to point out that, as the map stands, it is hard to fit it legibly into a screen (if not impossible). Any attempts to force the size up to 17x17 will be met with a cold stare and pointless belittling. Yours, Slakko -- Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:34:01 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Matt Miller wrote: >A series of infintessimal events such as 3 actions in the same message? > >These either happen as discrete events seperated by noninfintessimals (how >does THAT work, is the value of the timestamp gone forever?), or those 3 >events must take place before the events triggered by the 1st event (in >the theory you propose.) > >I, by the way, don't have any particular insight as to which >interpretation is 'correct'.. my reasoning follows the one which seems to >me most reasonable, but this is a matter which is quite appealable. > >See it was, at least, an interesting reasoning! Since this has been appealed, I will add the following delimited by TORCH as Bronze Torch Reasoning to CFJ 698. TORCH I'm going to cover two things here. First, the judge stated that the trinket wasn't in the musuem at the time of judgement. It merely had to be there at the time of CFJ submission, not at time of Judgement for this to be ruled TRUE, and ruling it FALSE based on that would have been an error. Second the judge tried to make a case, as did /dev/joe that it was possible that the objects weren't in the museum at the time that the CFJ was submitted. That is what I wish to address in this Bronze Torch reasoning. In the recent CFJ 689 dealing with Hats and the Chartreuse Goose, I argued that when two rules claim to have an effect happen an infinitesimal time after a specific event the rules essentially have to operate in parallel since nothing defines intra-rule timing, and it makes more sense to use a consistant 'length' for the infinitesimal amount of time passing between two discrete events. This CFJ's reasoning attempts to apply that same reasoning to the case of player actions in the same message (something we allow purely by game custom) versus rule dictated events (the sequence layed out by Rule 850). My view here would have to be that player actions in a message do in fact occur in order, but not necessarily an infinitesimal amount of time after the previous action in the message, but an infinitesimal amount of time after all rule generated sequences of events from the previous action have ceased. For practical purposes this is the 'same' as an infinitesimal time after the previous action because since it's infinitesimal it's not measurable and the fact that 6 events (a completely arbitrary number) happened after the first action in the message and before the second does not substantially alter the time of the second action in the message. So in the case under consideration by this CFJ (and which I believe applies to all three current CFJs about similar sequences of events) the following things happened. Thomas jute created the trinket. (rule 850 section III, forces a move to the museum before the donation) Thomas Jute donates that trinket to the museum (rule 850, Section IV & V, Thomas Jute's Benefactor Value exceeds A$5000) (rule 850, Section V & VII, Thomas Jute becomes a Member of the Museum) / (rule 850, Section V & VII, Thomas Jute added to North Wing plaque) \ (rule 850, Section VII, All of Thomas Jute's items moved to West Wing) / (rule 850, Section V & VII, North Wing sign displays Thomas Jute) \ (rule 850, Section VII, A big ceremony is held) (rule 850, Section VII, Thomas Jute becomes a Life Member) (rule 850, Section VII, Thomas Jute's name added to plaque) (rule 850, Section VII, West Wing sign begins displaying Thomas Jute) (rule 850, Section VII, North Wing sign begins displaying North) (rule 850, Section VII, Thomas Jute gains a Winning Condition) Thomas Jute submits a CFJ claiming the Winning Condition Thomas Jute points out that the trinket is a forgery. (rule 506, trinket is transferred to r-attila the farce) Operations denoted by () above are rule mandated effects. Operations denoted by < (well the larger version :)) occur simultaneously due to the 'parallelization' between two simultaneous rule effects. I believe the above to be sound and consistant with both the rules and current game custom. TORCH --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Office nominations Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:56:18 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, JT wrote: >I am hereby beginning nominations for the following 4 offices. > >Treasure-Harfer >Org-Harfer >Financier >Scorekeeper > >Please reply to me to nominate yourself and please specify clearly which >office or offices you are nominating for. The nomination period for the above offices has completed. The following are the people who nominated for each position: Financier: --------------------------------- Pol Pot K 2 Org-Harfer: --------------------------------- R-attila the farce Thomas Jute Pol Pot Scorekeeper: --------------------------------- Pol Pot K 2 Treasure-Harfer: --------------------------------- R-attila the farce Thomas Jute Pol Pot K 2 I hereby appoint the following people to the various offices: Financier: K 2 Scorekeeper: K 2 Org-Harfer: Thomas Jute Treasure-Harfer: K 2 Thank you to all nominees. [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:05:42 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, JT wrote: > TORCH > I'm going to cover two things here. > First, the judge stated that the trinket wasn't in the musuem at the time > of judgement. It merely had to be there at the time of CFJ submission, > not at time of Judgement for this to be ruled TRUE, and ruling it FALSE > based on that would have been an error. This was merely noted to show that the CFJ was not trivially true. IB ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: CFJ 698 (FALSE) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:50:56 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Matt Miller wrote: > On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Gabe Drummond-Cole wrote: > > > is the THEN in the initial is processed before moving on? > > I would say so. The IDEA of an "infintessimal amount of time" is that it > > is impossible to do anything before this time has passed. If we allow > > things to occur based on concurrent "infintessimals" AT the same time, we > > destroy the integrity of this infintessimal. The more reasonable, > > non-paradoxical view of the rules says that a series of infintessimal > > events that has begun FINISHES before another one starts. > > > > A series of infintessimal events such as 3 actions in the same message? > > These either happen as discrete events seperated by noninfintessimals (how > does THAT work, is the value of the timestamp gone forever?), or those 3 > events must take place before the events triggered by the 1st event (in > the theory you propose.) > > I, by the way, don't have any particular insight as to which > interpretation is 'correct'.. my reasoning follows the one which seems to > me most reasonable, but this is a matter which is quite appealable. > > See it was, at least, an interesting reasoning! > > IB > Yes, it was. I'm not sure which side of this argument I agree with (Vynd suddenly wonders if the next email in his box is this CFj being assigned to his cortex, but presses onwards), but I was impressed with IdiotBoy's dilligent work on what at first glance appears to be a straightforward issue. Bravo. :) Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu ------------------------------ From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: Run for the Hills Folks! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:52:41 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Duncan Richer wrote: > A Really Bad Earthquake has happened! > > > cluck cluck cluck cluck clonk > > Yours, Slakko I run around, bouncing off of walls and well, spurting blood, to put it bluntly. Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu > -- > Duncan C. Richer aka Slakko the Lost Warner Brother | Queens' College > http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~dcr24/ Ackanomic | U. of Cambridge > Web-Harfer, CotC, ChessUmpire, Map-Harfer, Senator | 2nd Year PhD(PMa) > > > ------------------------------ From: Tom Walmsley Subject: Acka: Happy Birthday! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:58:27 -0500 (EST) Happy [Acka] Birthday to me Happy [Acka] Birthday to me Happy [Acka] Birthday dear me and K 2 Happy [Acka] Birthday to us. It's a year ago to the day now that K 2 and I first joined Acka so: I go to the library. I play "Happy Birthday to you" on the ASS. I give JT a pre-emptive glare for not allowing this as it is too ambiguous. I play "A very merry unbirthday" from the animated film version of Alice in Wonderland to all other players (except anyone else who is celebrating either real or Acka birthdays...) I give JT another pre-emptive glare. I giveA$2 to Hubert for stealing his pre-emptive glare joke (1 for each offence). I apply to join They Might be Slumbering Giants. I realise TMBSG don't actually exist at the moment. To celebrate the begining of my second year in Acka I contemplate yet another name change (this will be my 8th Acka name I think) and since I currently have Alice in Wonderland in my mind I request that the Registrar acknowledges my name change to the following PTVK delimited string: PTVKAlicePTVK. I casually wonder what pronoun those that don't like using Spivak terms are going to use to describe me now :-). I go home. Gromit. -- Tom Walmsley t.walmsley@lineone.net http://website.lineone.net/~t.walmsley/index.html AIM: TGW666 ICQ 2925739 Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston, lausajne estas rano en mia bideo. ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Happy Birthday! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:25:48 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote: >I play "Happy Birthday to you" on the ASS. >I give JT a pre-emptive glare for not allowing this as it is too >ambiguous. I'm not DJ, so I don't care :) >To celebrate the begining of my second year in Acka I contemplate yet >another name change (this will be my 8th Acka name I think) and since I >currently have Alice in Wonderland in my mind I request that the >Registrar acknowledges my name change to the following PTVK delimited >string: PTVKAlicePTVK. I ack this name change, assuming that you do in fact have A$25 >I casually wonder what pronoun those that don't like using Spivak terms >are going to use to describe me now :-). It. :) --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: "Gavin M. Doig" Subject: acka: Challenge (K 2) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:55:31 -0500 (EST) Know, oh most foul of mountains, that sIRE, first Scaremonger of Ackanomic, has seen fit to engage me as his second in a duel against you. Not content with moving in and out of the game seemingly at random, now you attempt to repeal that very foundation of all that is Ackan - the office of Scaremonger! Do you really expect sIRE to let slip this affront to the honour and Harfiness, not only of himself and his office, but of every player, past and present, who stands on the side of Harf? Prepare yourself to be annihilated! Feel shame at your failure to be the highest mountain on the planet! Despair at the inferior number of anagrams, both possible and already realised, that your name can produce! sIRE awaits your response, if you dare to give one. There'll be no escape for the mountain this time. smallpox blanket. ------------------------------ From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: Acka: Sorry! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:17:58 -0500 (EST) I support this nomination. ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Acka: Test mailing. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:48:00 -0500 (EST) Hi. I am testing some new mailing features on ackanomic.org Mostly this is BWG, but it's the fastest way I have to test effectiveness. Your kind attentionis appreciated. IB ------------------------------ From: Matt Miller Subject: Acka: Traveling. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:59:06 -0500 (EST) The mail updates worked, you may see faster delivery of your all important Ackanomic mail now. (Nothing like suggesting my machines are slow to get me to do something.) In celebration, I go to the Library. I enter *THAT* room. IB ------------------------------ From: K 2 Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Acka: Birthday Prezzies]] Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:30:22 -0500 (EST) Third time lucky ;) K 2 -- Listar MIME Decryption -------------- -- Content: Included message Message-ID: <2B141B2D.2F47D3E6@internex.net.au> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 11:32:45 +1100 From: K 2 Reply-To: kii@internex.net.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ackanomic@ackanomic.org Subject: [Fwd: Acka: Birthday Prezzies] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CCD64324724F49D96907A01E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CCD64324724F49D96907A01E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------CCD64324724F49D96907A01E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <2B141AD7.13C5ED87@internex.net.au> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1992 11:31:19 +1100 From: K 2 Reply-To: kii@internex.net.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ackanomic@ackanomic.org Subject: Acka: Birthday Prezzies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I create 35 trinkets each worth A$1 with the name "K 2's Birthday Present for Someone" where in each case Someone is replaced with the current name of a non-icy player in such a way as to create a unique name. Each of the trinkets has the following description: " Its one of those useful teaspoon things which are... um... useful for hanging up. It has a picture of K 2's coat of arms on it, only the central figure is rampant. " where Someone is replaced with the same player's name that was used to replace the Someone in the trinket's name. All of the trinkets are forgeries :) and I think two of em weren't created.... K 2 Helpful list of potentially on icy players: 404 Not Found Alfvaen Aunt Froot Calvin N Hobbes Danek /dev/joe else...if Ethelred Euphrates Fortunato Gromit IdiotBoy JT K 2 Niccolo Flychuck Pol Pot r-attila the farce Red Barn Robert Sevin Robin Hood rufus saaremaa scout sIRE Slakko smallpox blanket The Green Ripper ThinMan Thomas Jute two-star Vynd Wild Card --------------CCD64324724F49D96907A01E-- ------------------------------ From: Jonathan David Amery Subject: Re: Acka: Happy Birthday! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:56:03 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote: > currently have Alice in Wonderland in my mind I request that the > Registrar acknowledges my name change to the following PTVK delimited > string: PTVKAlicePTVK. > I casually wonder what pronoun those that don't like using Spivak terms > are going to use to describe me now :-). 'She', of course. After much thought on the issue of which pronouns I should use to refer to myself when I'm using a female nick amongst people who know I'm actually male I decided that 'she' etc. were correct. That is about as far as I've got though, so far. -- Jonathan David Amery, Trinity Hall, CAMBRIDGE, CB2 1TJ. ##### http://www.trinhall.cam.ac.uk/~jda23/home.html o__####### Wild Card of Acka, member of SPAM, wearing Silly Agenda Hats. \'####### Follower of Banna, the EBS and Odo. Holding the Silver Key to the Vault. Memo to myself: Do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppethead. ------------------------------ From: K 2 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Acka: Birthday Prezzies]] Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:09:52 -0500 (EST) Fourth time then. I create 35 trinkets each worth A$1 with the name "K 2's Birthday Present for Someone" where in each case Someone is replaced with the current name of a non-icy player in such a way as to create a unique name. Each of the trinkets has the following description: " Its one of those useful teaspoon things which are... um... useful for hanging up. It has a picture of K2's coat of arms on it, only the central figure is rampant. " All of the trinkets are forgeries :) and I think two of em weren't created.... K 2 K 2 wrote: > > Third time lucky ;) > > K 2 > Helpful list of potentially on icy players: > > 404 Not Found > Alfvaen > Aunt Froot > Calvin N Hobbes > Danek > /dev/joe > else...if > Ethelred > Euphrates > Fortunato > Gromit > IdiotBoy > JT > K 2 > Niccolo Flychuck > Pol Pot > r-attila the farce > Red Barn > Robert Sevin > Robin Hood > rufus > saaremaa > scout > sIRE > Slakko > smallpox blanket > The Green Ripper > ThinMan > Thomas Jute > two-star > Vynd > Wild Card ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Acka: Birthday Prezzies]] Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:33:36 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, K 2 wrote: >Fourth time then. > >I create 35 trinkets each worth A$1 with the name "K 2's Birthday >Present for Someone" where in each case Someone is replaced with the >current name of a non-icy player in such a way as to create a unique >name. > >Each of the trinkets has the following description: >" >Its one of those useful teaspoon things which are... um... useful for >hanging up. It has a picture of K2's coat of arms on it, only the >central figure is rampant. >" > >All of the trinkets are forgeries :) and I think two of em weren't >created.... My question here is why you think the '3rd time' might not have worked? And why do you think 2 are not created? --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Acka: Birthday Prezzies]] Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 21:56:04 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, K 2 wrote: >I create 35 trinkets each worth A$1 with the name "K 2's Birthday >Present for Someone" where in each case Someone is replaced with the >current name of a non-icy player in such a way as to create a unique >name. > >Each of the trinkets has the following description: >" >Its one of those useful teaspoon things which are... um... useful for >hanging up. It has a picture of K 2's coat of arms on it, only the >central figure is rampant. >" >where Someone is replaced with the same player's name that was used to >replace the Someone in the trinket's name. > >All of the trinkets are forgeries :) and I think two of em weren't >created.... > >K 2 These trinkets were all created and immediately donated to the treasury where they were destroyed upon them being known as forgeries. If any weren't created due to funds or name lengths, it's irrelevant to everyone except the financier. One trinket the present from K 2 to K 2 wasn't destroyed in this manner. As to why this is the case, rule 506 says If a player-created Trinket, contains the name of a current or former player other than that of the creating player, such that the player name in question existed before the Trinket was created, and which has not been owned at some time by each player whose name it contains, and a player points this fact out publicly, it is a forgery. The rules may define other circumstances under which a Trinket is a forgery. These trinkets contain both the name of K 2 and another player each (except one which contained K 2 twice) and thus were forgeries which K 2 pointed out. Now the next paragraph of rule 506 comes into play. It says Upon it becoming publically knowable that a Trinket is a forgery, it is transferred to the Treasury, unless it contains the name of exactly one current player and no former players, in which case it is transferred to that player. The trinket names each contain two players (namely K 2 and X) and so were all transferred to the treasury where they were destroyed. Net result the transfer from K 2 to the treasury of A$30 (1, the trinket "K 2's Birthday Present for K 2") was not destroyed, and there were only 31 non-icy players (according to registrar page, so 4 creations just failed) K 2's next attempt (4?) succeeded in creating 30 trinkets and also transferring them to the treasury for the same reason. (35 were attempted, "K 2's Birthday Present for K 2" already existed, and the other 4 couldn't chose a unique name and so failed). Therefore this also tranferred A$30 to the treasury. If K 2 had less than A$60, then some or more of these also could have failed. I am only going to harf this as only one trinket remaining, that being "K 2's Birthday Present for K 2". --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Traveling. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:00:43 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Matt Miller wrote: >The mail updates worked, you may see faster delivery of your all important >Ackanomic mail now. (Nothing like suggesting my machines are slow to get >me to do something.) > >In celebration, I go to the Library. > >I enter *THAT* room. You last entered the Vault of the Ackanomicon on the 13th of November, so you do not actually succeed in going to *that* room. Sorry. --JT [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: Acka: Traveling. Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:02:10 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, JT wrote: :You last entered the Vault of the Ackanomicon on the 13th of November, so :you do not actually succeed in going to *that* room. Sorry. : :--JT If he can't do it, then I will. I go to the library, and then to that room. rufus ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:05:57 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # Player: rufus # Ackanomicon Determination # based on the following (using a 49 sided die) # 1 - 15 Arcane Trivia # 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies # 21 - 25 Inner Workings # 26 - 30 Arcane Lore # 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages # 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact # 35 - 36 Mutation # 37 - 38 Dark Domain # 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure # 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit # 42 - 42 Catastrophe # 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit # 47 - 47 Ancient One # 48 - 49 Judgement Day No. of sides on every die: 49 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 26 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Nov 25 22:05:28 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id WAA07306 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:05:28 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma007241; Wed Nov 25 19:05:17 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA09217 > for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:05:30 -0800 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:05:29 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Nomicon > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #S 49 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination > > #C Player: rufus > #C Ackanomicon Determination > #C based on the following (using a 49 sided die) > #C > #C 1 - 15 Arcane Trivia > #C 16 - 20 Vile Prophecies > #C 21 - 25 Inner Workings > #C 26 - 30 Arcane Lore > #C 31 - 33 Terrorizing Pages > #C 34 - 34 Ancient Artifact > #C 35 - 36 Mutation > #C 37 - 38 Dark Domain > #C 39 - 40 Long Lost Treasure > #C 41 - 41 Forbidden Fruit > #C 42 - 42 Catastrophe > #C 43 - 46 Not so Forbidden Fruit > #C 47 - 47 Ancient One > #C 48 - 49 Judgement Day > > > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] > [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNlzFhz8NitsTFjcVAQGFjAQAgf3qft5S2pQbJUiYCSFd/PBHOHzMUeXK jsMb2dRnVzeGvlO8q+r0xc5rMkLp1IYIP5mqdDvjf97i7e2NZZ/gvwYU+7qGGU4Q eF2UZZVbuLko/mkBn+SYr0bS7RUX7BTrzln7QntrPofAe3l5ePsPOXKgpOQHwBtu AxXkIWIGNoA= =N8WO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: dice-admin@pbm.com (Dice server) Subject: Acka: Arcane Lore Probablistic Otzma Card determination Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:10:09 -0500 (EST) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: JT Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@ackanomic.org # Player: rufus # This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading the Arcane # Lore page from the Ackanomicon. # The determination is made according to the following table. # 1-3 Go Fish (normal) # 4-6 Map Shard (normal) # 7-7 Summon Tornado (rare) (at max instance) # 8-10 Share My Expenses (normal) # 11-13 Share Your Income (normal) (at max instance) # 14-16 Swinging Sale (normal) # 17-19 Tactical Retreat (normal) (at max instance) # 20-22 Paratroop (normal) # 23-25 Foul Fowl (normal) (at max instance) # 26-28 Truthseeker (normal) # 29-31 Fix My Gadget (normal) # 32-34 Art Thief (normal) # 35-37 Skeleton Key (normal) # 38-40 Artic Explorer (normal) # 41-43 Lay Off! (normal) (at max instance) # 44-44 Founder's Boon (rare) (at max instance) # 45-47 Roulette Wheel (normal) # 48-50 Training Regime (normal) # 51-53 Shield (normal) (at max instance) # 54-56 ACME InstaGadget (normal) # 57-59 Felicitous Populi (normal) # 60-60 Enslavement (rare) No. of sides on every die: 60 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 1 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ ================================================= ** NewHoo Web Directory ** An army of editors surfing the web for you! http://www.NewHoo.com/ ================================================= Original message follows: > From jtraub@dragoncat.net Wed Nov 25 22:09:59 1998 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id WAA07476 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:09:59 -0500 > Received: from herne.dragoncat.net(207.54.31.1) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma007473; Wed Nov 25 19:09:53 1998 > Received: from localhost (jtraub@localhost) > by dragoncat.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA09246 > for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:10:08 -0800 > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:10:07 -0800 (PST) > From: JT > To: Dice Server > Subject: Acka: Arcane lore > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > #P ackanomic@ackanomic.org > #T Acka: Arcane Lore Probablistic Otzma Card determination > #S 60 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > > #C Player: rufus > #C This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading the Arcane > #C Lore page from the Ackanomicon. > #C > #C The determination is made according to the following table. > #C > #C 1-3 Go Fish (normal) > #C 4-6 Map Shard (normal) > #C 7-7 Summon Tornado (rare) (at max instance) > #C 8-10 Share My Expenses (normal) > #C 11-13 Share Your Income (normal) (at max instance) > #C 14-16 Swinging Sale (normal) > #C 17-19 Tactical Retreat (normal) (at max instance) > #C 20-22 Paratroop (normal) > #C 23-25 Foul Fowl (normal) (at max instance) > #C 26-28 Truthseeker (normal) > #C 29-31 Fix My Gadget (normal) > #C 32-34 Art Thief (normal) > #C 35-37 Skeleton Key (normal) > #C 38-40 Artic Explorer (normal) > #C 41-43 Lay Off! (normal) (at max instance) > #C 44-44 Founder's Boon (rare) (at max instance) > #C 45-47 Roulette Wheel (normal) > #C 48-50 Training Regime (normal) > #C 51-53 Shield (normal) (at max instance) > #C 54-56 ACME InstaGadget (normal) > #C 57-59 Felicitous Populi (normal) > #C 60-60 Enslavement (rare) > > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] > [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] > [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 iQCVAwUBNlzGij8NitsTFjcVAQFsaQQAtCuIohGk06IvqL/cgBktUt/gSbUfcasA zqlMovhzGvJO2keVquj0ipAbQeKdD8xgC5JhF9T3cBKVXsa6cYmdlvE8ox+JIBOJ gnopihJaX6kl6Zxm3XQj3ivQBGsehgISWFkigCyyNeBXz2s4hQgxLAwCbPNn1uwf NyUswUt6IDI= =g+gR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ From: JT Subject: Re: Acka: Arcane Lore Probablistic Otzma Card determination Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:12:09 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Dice server wrote: >Dice rolls requested by: JT >Rolls also sent to: > ackanomic@ackanomic.org > ># Player: rufus ># This is determining the Otzma Card aquired for reading the Arcane ># Lore page from the Ackanomicon. ># The determination is made according to the following table. ># 1-3 Go Fish (normal) > >No. of sides on every die: 60 >No. of dice for every roll: 1 >No. of dice rolls requested: 1 >No. of rolls per line: 1 > > 1 Go Fish were not at their instance limit (they are now). Rufus is now the proud owner of a new Go Fish Otzma Card. --JT, Speaker [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] [ Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty. ] [ It's hard to seize the day when you must first grapple with the morning ] [-------------------------------------------------------------------------] ------------------------------ From: Eric Plumb Subject: Re: Acka: Happy Birthday! Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:43:44 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Tom Walmsley wrote: > Happy [Acka] Birthday to me > Happy [Acka] Birthday to me > Happy [Acka] Birthday dear me and K 2 > Happy [Acka] Birthday to us. I gift Celia (see below) and K 2 each a Huge, Gaudily Wrapped Present. This, of course, fails because I don't own any, but it's the thought that counts, isn't it? > I giveA$2 to Hubert for stealing his pre-emptive glare joke (1 for each > offence). I accept gratefully even though I don't have to. I give JT a preemptive glare for no reason whatsoever and invite everyone to join in. > To celebrate the begining of my second year in Acka I contemplate yet > another name change (this will be my 8th Acka name I think) and since I > currently have Alice in Wonderland in my mind I request that the > Registrar acknowledges my name change to the following PTVK delimited > string: PTVKAlicePTVK. Bah, only eight? I point my Really Big Blue Thing That Doesn't Do Much, Really at Alice, press the button marked "ENERGIZE" and supply the anagram "Celia" so we don't have to switch pronouns now we've gotten used to it. Nine. That's better. Interestingly enough, eir/her/its/seine new name is not only what I continually misremember the name of the Simon & Garfunkel song as, but also what I thought Bob Marley was singing in "Stir It Up" until about a year ago. I blame the media. -Hubert If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ------------------------------ End of ackanomic Digest V3 #425 *******************************