From: owner-ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu (Ackanomic Digest) To: ackanomic-digest Subject: Ackanomic Digest V2 #223 Reply-To: ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu Sender: owner-ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu Errors-To: owner-ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu Precedence: bulk Ackanomic Digest Wednesday, July 30 1997 Volume 02 : Number 223 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:33:58 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Acka: CFJ 442 Verdict CFJ 442 has been judged FALSE. Clerk of the Courts - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Call For Judgment 442 Subject: Church Initiator: Alfvaen Judge: Vynd (selected Jul 25, 1997, 22:04h EDT) Judgement: FALSE Statement: It is possible for the Priest of a Church to have eir Priesthood stripped from em, if that Church's Policy specifies ways for such to occur. Alfvaen's Reasoning: Again, it says in Rule 1301 that only the Church Founder can ordain Priests, no matter what Church Policy may say to the contrary, but it says nothing about how a Priest can be stripped of eir Priesthood. It seems to me that this should fall under the purview of Church Policy as well. Vynd's Reasoning: Nowhere in the rules is a method for stripping Priesthood from someone defined, so far as I can see. Good old Rule 101 tells us that if something isn't regulated or prohibited, then you can do it. I believe, however, that Rule 1301 goes into sufficient depth as to what Priests can do, and how to become a Priest, that Priesthood as a whole is regulated by the rules, even if the specifics of stripping a Priest of said status is not. Church Policy is given legal strength by clause 3c (Iconclasm) of Rule 1301, which says that it is impermissible for players to take actions that constitue Iconclasm if they have any legal alternative. While this gives Church Policy the ability to make things that would normaly be legal impossible, it does not give Church Policy the power to make things that are impossible possible. The most that Church Policy could do towards stripping someone of their Priesthood would be to require them to take the (impossible) action of stripping themselves or others of the title, and end up just forcing people into Iconclasm. Thus I rule FALSE on this CFJ. Note that this judgement does not pretend to claim that it is entirely impossible to strip someone's Preisthood, as a senate resolution or proposal could easily do so, but rather restricts itself to the Church Policy case that seemed to be the intent of the statement. Further note that, yes, this means that once you are a Priest you're pretty much going to stay that way. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:37:59 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Acka: CFJ 439 Appeal Verdict FALSE has been upheld on CFJ 439. This collapses the Ambassador thread. Voting Gnome loses 25 points, I believe, as the justices did not specify a penalty. Clerk of the Courts - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Call For Judgment 439 Subject: Ambassador Initiator: Voting Gnome Judge: Karma (selected Jul 20, 1997, 22:07h EDT) Judgement: FALSE Appeal: FALSE Statement: The position of Ambasador is not an Ackanomic Office. Voting Gnome's Reasoning: Rule 419.1 crreates the position of Ambasador, but does not declare it to be a political or functional office. Neither does it specify any elective procedure for filling the position. Additionally, while Rule 419.1 (along with 419.2) outline "duties" of the Ambasador, nothing is mentioned of "privileges", which Rule 401 specifically states is a commonality with all Offices. Thereby, any Player volunteering may become the Ambasador. Karma's Reasoning [apparently]: quoting from rule 401. (something ) is this excerpt (x) Office Type All offices are either Functional or Political. If the rules fail to specify the type of an office, that office is a Political Office. Vacancies in a particular Political office are filled by election for office (by the procedure in R 402), unless other rules specify otherwise. In the case of an optional Political office where a nomination did not produce any volunteers, the election process is aborted at that point. This clearly states that any position Pertaining to "a seat" is either functional or political Voting Gnome's Appeal Reasoning: While I admit that Karm's reasoning has taken care of the first two arguments of my reasoning, there is still the fact that Rule 401 states that all Offices shall have "duties" and "privileges". Since Rule 419 makes no provision for "privileges", I still maintain that the Ambassador is not really an Ackanomic Office. I hereby appeal CFJ 439 to the Supreme Court. We need more Voting Gnomes in Internomic! Supreme Court's Reasoning: The Office of the Ambassador has at least one privilege, namely "the ability to cast extra votes in certain circumstance", as per Rule 419.2. Furthermore, the Court can find no reasonable interpretation of Rule 401 that requires the number of privileges of an Office to be non-zero. The original verdict is therefore upheld. As an aside, the Court would like to point out that if the position of Ambassador were not an Office, then none of the rules defining Offices would apply. And since the rules specific to the Ambassador do not provide a means for filling that position, there would then be no way for any player, voting or otherwise, to become Ambassador. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:59:07 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Acka: PCI It appears to be the Speaker's duty to track the membership of the PCI (oh joy ;-)). Please let me know if the current membership is other than: Mr. Lunatic Fringe Niccolo Flychuck Voting Gnome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:03:00 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Acka: CFJ 443 (/dev/joe) /dev/joe has been selected. Clerk of the Courts - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Call For Judgment 443 Subject: Trivially True Initiator: Niccolo Flychuck Judge: /dev/joe (selected Jul 29, 1997, 19:02h EDT) Judgement: Statement: Malenkai is a membr of They Might Be Slumbering Giants. Niccolo Flychuck's Reasoning: This is trivially True. However, previously Malenkai argued that a CFJ that established that a statement was true about They Might Be Slumbering Giants is necessarily True about any Organization. Therefore I argue that a judgement of True on this CFJ means that Malenkai is necessarily a member of all Organizations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:31:16 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Re: Acka: IP > Since Public Voting seems to be the norm(do we have to wait for Count > Tabula to announce the voting periods having begun, or not? No, see rule 404. I hope to have all of my duties harfed tonite. IAC, public voting is not necessary, but is being counted. Count Tabula ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:52:13 -0400 From: Malenkai Subject: Acka: Beldin's Pants Removal Description > Beldin's Pants are a Garment, initially Somewhere Else. Beldin's > Pants may only be removed as described by the Praetor. Beldin's > Pants are unique. Beldin's Pants may only be removed by publically frinking Right-Handed Grapefruit juice whilst wearing, or otherwise manipulating the Parka, and whilst reciting an original haiku that contains no common consonants (as defined in the Machine rule). If however, they are playing any song by the Cure on the Horn of Harf, the haiku requirement is not necessary, unless of course, the title of that song is any type of larvae. Any other comments or public posts that appear to describe methodology for removing Beldin's Pants, or any such comments that appear to amend, negate, or condradict this description in any way are simply notes and comments, and can be safely ignored. Malenkai Praetor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:36:00 -0400 From: Dice Server Subject: Acka: Ackanomicon Determination - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Dice rolls requested by: Malenkai Rolls also sent to: ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu # Ackanomicon determination for Vynd # based on the following (using a 51 sided die): # 1 -15: arcane trivia # 16-20: vile prophecies # 21-25: inner workings # 26-30: arcane lore # 31-33: terrorizing pages # 34-34: ancient artifact # 35-36: mutation # 37-38: dark domain # 39-39: visitation # 40-40: the secret # 41-42: long lost treasure # 43-44: doomsday # 45-45: forbidden fruit # 46-46: catastrophe # 47-50: not so forbidden fruit # 51-51: ancient one # Malenkai No. of sides on every die: 51 No. of dice for every roll: 1 No. of dice rolls requested: 1 No. of rolls per line: 1 18 Information on the dice server: DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Replies to dice-admin@pbm.com vanish into a seldom-read mailbox. For instructions on using the dice server, send a message with subject "help" to dice@pbm.com, or see http://www.pbm.com/dice/ The dice server is provided by: Shadow Island Games http://www.pbm.com/ds.html Original message follows: > From malenkai@itw.com Tue Jul 29 17:34:48 1997 > Received: (from smtp@localhost) by xkey.com > id RAA02796 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:34:48 -0700 > Received: from mail.itw.net(206.138.122.6) by xkey.com via smtp (V1.3) > id sma002787; Tue Jul 29 17:34:44 1997 > Received: from ppp146.itw.com (ppp146.itw.com [206.138.122.146]) by mail.itw.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22521 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:34:37 -0400 > Message-ID: <33DE8B24.6730@itw.com> > Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:30:28 -0400 > From: Malenkai > X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: dice@pbm.com > Subject: s > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > #P ackanomic@wilma.che.utexas.edu > #S 51 > #D 1 > #R 1 > #L 1 > #T Acka: Ackanomicon Determination > > #C Ackanomicon determination for Vynd > #C based on the following (using a 51 sided die): > #C 1 -15: arcane trivia > #C 16-20: vile prophecies > #C 21-25: inner workings > #C 26-30: arcane lore > #C 31-33: terrorizing pages > #C 34-34: ancient artifact > #C 35-36: mutation > #C 37-38: dark domain > #C 39-39: visitation > #C 40-40: the secret > #C 41-42: long lost treasure > #C 43-44: doomsday > #C 45-45: forbidden fruit > #C 46-46: catastrophe > #C 47-50: not so forbidden fruit > #C 51-51: ancient one > #C Malenkai - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.7 UiF+gJStU=qMBzFS+UP+BVuIPs+B+RVbMJgJFe+QvCMjD=nFTtBHf=UiBU+DIbOHfT uIF+HBnF+tUBuF,+BT=KVeHFe+Cz+Nf+(fH,+QSpQPtBM,=JQ,=DGK,+ZPSM+QMbZ, FUd),tIBmM+gJOe=UiF=QBSlB.+B+rVBmJGjFE+NFtTBhF+jTPoF+uIBu+DpOUbJOt UiF+xPSe="tFWfO"=JO+BOz+Pg+UiF+uIFtF=mBOhVBhFT:+FvTLbSB,=BmCBoJBo, XFMtI,+PS=MJuVBoJBo. - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:38:40 -0800 From: Phil Ackley Subject: Acka: IP Voting I vote to ACCEPT the first IP against /dev/joe ACCEPT the second IP against /dev/joe ACCEPT the IP against ThinMan ACCEPT the IP against VYND REJECT the IP against Robert Seving Mr. Lunatic Fringe Just to be clear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:50:00 -0400 (EDT) From: John Frederic Mc Coy Subject: Re: Acka: PCI On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, Malenkai wrote: > It appears to be the Speaker's duty to track the membership of > the PCI (oh joy ;-)). Please let me know if the current membership > is other than: > > Mr. Lunatic Fringe > Niccolo Flychuck > Voting Gnome > Well, that depnds on whether or not the ambiguous wording of the rule is actually causing everyone to change their membership status whenever they send a public message. Seeing as how I've sent out a CSR to fix this, I suggest we just hope nothing comes up for the next couple of days. - Vynd jmccoy@umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:03:32 -0400 From: jordan james Subject: re acka I wish to convert my trinket "kite mitt " into A($) - - karma ------------------------------ End of Ackanomic Digest V2 #223 *******************************